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Broncomutt
07-28-2011, 05:59 PM
Orton's 11-18 record and generally not being up to the task when it counted is all I saw.

And that record could've very easily been worse outside a couple fluky plays and individual efforts by others.

Yep

FADERPROOF
07-28-2011, 06:00 PM
Well he did lead the Bears to a Super Bowl in 2005 only to be unseated by Rex Grossman.

Lay off the drugs man, Grossman was the starter that ENTIRE year!

WolfpackGuy
07-28-2011, 06:00 PM
Whoops, you're right.

It happens from time to time.

They've had so many QB's over the years, it's hard to keep them all straight.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-28-2011, 06:17 PM
Orton had a 91.5 rating in the red zone. and a 58.0 rating on 3rd down, last season.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/8520/kyle-orton

Tebow had a 39.6 rating in the red zone, and a 77.1 rating on 3rd down, last season.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/13200/tim-tebow

So Orton was better in the red zone, Tebow was better on 3rd down.

You can't compare statistics when one player started 2 games.

Doggcow
07-28-2011, 06:39 PM
You can't compare statistics when one player started 2 games.

You're one to talk about making absurd comparisons and jumping to conclusions...

Broncobiv
07-28-2011, 06:41 PM
2011 Training Camp – Day 2: P.M. Blog (http://blog.denverbroncos.com/denverbroncos/2011-training-camp-day-2-p-m-blog/)

PLAYMAKERS
There aren’t a ton of plays to be made during a walkthrough, but Miller managed to make a name for himself early on. The rookie snagged an interception from Kyle Orton, and laughed as he danced back to the sideline after the play.

Wasn't sure which thread this would go better in, so I put it in both.

Swedish Extrovert
07-28-2011, 06:44 PM
2011 Training Camp – Day 2: P.M. Blog (http://blog.denverbroncos.com/denverbroncos/2011-training-camp-day-2-p-m-blog/)



Wasn't sure which thread this would go better in, so I put it in both.

- The last drill of practice had Assistant Special Teams Coach Keith Burns bouncing a soccer ball near the goal line. One player’s job was to leap in the air and tip the ball without stepping into the end zone, and another had to field it inside the 5-yard line and avoid a touchback. That created plenty of laughs, and a light-hearted argument from Perrish Cox when it was ruled he stepped on the line. “I wasn’t in!” he protested.


He's such a joker LOL

Swedish Extrovert
07-28-2011, 06:46 PM
Oh... and: neither thread.

Pendejo
07-28-2011, 06:51 PM
Passer rating does not equate to red zone production. Especially with a guy who is a running threat.

Not only that, but Orton was yanked in favor of Tebow in red zone situations a few times last year, and of course the Donks scored touchdowns.

Rushing td's don't effect passer rating, but they still count more than three on the scoreboard.

orangenblue2
07-28-2011, 06:55 PM
2011 Training Camp – Day 2: P.M. Blog (http://blog.denverbroncos.com/denverbroncos/2011-training-camp-day-2-p-m-blog/)



Wasn't sure which thread this would go better in, so I put it in both.

Yeah, but did Tebow throw a pick? I fully expect the Post to run a story tomorrow morning, explaining that the Tebow looked much better than Orton at this afternoon's practice...riiiiight

Mr. Elway
07-28-2011, 06:57 PM
Reminds me: Plummer Quietly Having a Very Good Camp (http://www.greeleytribune.com/article/20060820/SPORTS/60820007)

Broncos4tw
07-28-2011, 08:20 PM
It doesn't matter if he is better than Tebow right now. If Orton will never win us a playoff game, there is no point in playing him. Ever. Tebow is still enough of an unknown, we can play him enough to get an idea if we should stick with him or trade him.

Hell, at worst, Tebow has a mediocre year, and we have a horrible record, and pick up Luck. Who knows.

db56
07-28-2011, 08:37 PM
no surprise here, the Broncos have a plan in place and are sticking to it. Orton will continue to take reps with the first team until either one of two things happen, 1. Orton is traded or 2.Tebow is clearly beating him out.

I want Orton out of here as bad as anyone for the right price and competition is a good thing, even for Tebow...

Shoemaker
07-28-2011, 08:56 PM
It doesn't matter if he is better than Tebow right now. If Orton will never win us a playoff game, there is no point in playing him. Ever. Tebow is still enough of an unknown, we can play him enough to get an idea if we should stick with him or trade him.

Hell, at worst, Tebow has a mediocre year, and we have a horrible record, and pick up Luck. Who knows.

Exactly this.

I'm a much bigger fan of Kyle Orton than a lot of the posters on this board (and I'm not all that sold on Tebow yet), but I still think the Broncos would be making a big mistake if they start Orton this year.

I think most people here agree that this is going to be a rebuilding year, and thus the team probably isn't going to be very good. Orton is definitely a more polished quarterback than Tebow, and we might be able to win a few more games with him starting all year, though this certainly isn't a given. But I doubt the difference between Orton and Tebow's play would be enough to get this team into the playoffs unless the AFC West is 2010-NFC-West levels of terrible.

So, we pretty much know what we have in Orton, but Tebow is much more of an unknown. The best thing to do would be to start him during a rebuilding year, when winning isn't necessarily the goal, and see how he acclimates himself. If he plays well and shows promise, we probably won't be drafting in the top 5 in 2012 (assuming Fox and Allen can make the defense respectable), while if he completely busts, we'll be in prime position to snag Andrew Luck. Either way we'll know what we have in Tebow, which is not something we're going to fine out with him sitting on the bench.

Plus, I like the idea of putting Tebow's position as this team's quarterback in his own hands by letting him start. I'm not sure if he's the future at all, but I certainly know he'll do everything he can to make sure we have no chance at drafting Luck.

The Moops
07-28-2011, 08:58 PM
Wow, don't jump the gun or anything (Klis). I mean, one practice with no hitting and ya'll are anointing Orton the starter?

Remember, football is a contact sport ... at least it used to be.

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 09:31 PM
Anyone claiming we'll actually win more games with Orton than Tebow has their head up their ass. Orton would probably produce better stats. He sure as **** won't produce more wins. Seriously, am I the only one who saw the difference in the team after Tebow became the starter? :kiddingme

Pendejo
07-28-2011, 09:43 PM
no surprise here, the Broncos have a plan in place and are sticking to it. Orton will continue to take reps with the first team until either one of two things happen, 1. Orton is traded or 2.Tebow is clearly beating him out.

I want Orton out of here as bad as anyone for the right price and competition is a good thing, even for Tebow...

There is no way anyone wants Orton out of Denver more than me. Other than that...great work!.

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 09:45 PM
There is no way anyone wants Orton out of Denver more than me. Other than that...great work!.

I heartily disagree. I want Orton out of Denver more than you. ;)

HAT
07-28-2011, 10:00 PM
Not only that, but Orton was yanked in favor of Tebow in red zone situations a few times last year, and of course the Donks scored touchdowns.

.

I haven't read all 11 pages but I'd imagine this thread is full of yeah buts....."Yeah but, Orton's RZ & 3rd down numbers weren't very good"

So here's my question.....What is so bad about EFX holding out for the best possible offer for Orton. Worst case scenario is you let Orton do what he does best.....Make good decisions, manage the game & move the chains/set up convertible 3rd down situations. That doesn't preclude letting Tebow do what he does best. Score TD's in the red zone and confuse defenses on key 3rd downs.

I've been advocating an Orton trade for over a year but since it wasn't possible at the best possible time (Pre-draft)....There's no sense just giving him away.

It wasn't too long ago when people didn't believe it RBBC.....I'd like to see Fox pull off QBBC.

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 10:05 PM
I haven't read all 11 pages but I'd imagine this thread is full of yeah buts....."Yeah but, Orton's RZ & 3rd down numbers weren't very good"

So here's my question.....What is so bad about EFX holding out for the best possible offer for Orton. Worst case scenario is you let Orton do what he does best.....Make good decisions, manage the game & move the chains/set up convertible 3rd down situations. That doesn't preclude letting Tebow do what he does best. Score TD's in the red zone and confuse defenses on key 3rd downs.

I've been advocating an Orton trade for over a year but since it wasn't possible at the best possible time (Pre-draft)....There's no sense just giving him away.

It wasn't too long ago when people didn't believe it RBBC.....I'd like to see Fox pull off QBBC.

I can think of 8.8 million reasons to do everything possible to get rid of Orton. I can't think of too many for keeping him. Other than the possibility that our FO has no ****ing clue what they are doing.

TheReverend
07-28-2011, 10:09 PM
I haven't read all 11 pages but I'd imagine this thread is full of yeah buts....."Yeah but, Orton's RZ & 3rd down numbers weren't very good"

So here's my question.....What is so bad about EFX holding out for the best possible offer for Orton. Worst case scenario is you let Orton do what he does best.....Make good decisions, manage the game & move the chains/set up convertible 3rd down situations. That doesn't preclude letting Tebow do what he does best. Score TD's in the red zone and confuse defenses on key 3rd downs.

I've been advocating an Orton trade for over a year but since it wasn't possible at the best possible time (Pre-draft)....There's no sense just giving him away.

It wasn't too long ago when people didn't believe it RBBC.....I'd like to see Fox pull off QBBC.

1. We'd have to watch Kyle Orton play again

2. We hinder Tim's development AND it will 100% cause locker room issues.

3. 9 millions dollar we can't spend on an impact player (for reference: Joseph just went at roughly that price tag per year - that's a BIG sacrifice just to hope a 4th round offer turns into a ****ing 3)

4. See #1

SoCalBronco
07-28-2011, 10:10 PM
I can think of 8.8 million reasons to do everything possible to get rid of Orton. I can't think of too many for keeping him. Other than the possibility that our FO has no ****ing clue what they are doing.

Agreed. If we could free up 8.8m, it would make it that much easier to land Mebane or another prime DT. The more they try and wait it out to get what they think is fair, the more risk that these guys will get snatched up and the top tier of the market will thin out before we have a chance to use some of the money.

They need to be realistic with their demands. Now, to be fair, it has also been suggested that the main holdup is Orton not agreeing to a new deal with Miami. If that is the case, then Denver can still expedite the proceedings by making sure Orton knows that if he doesn't make a deal quickly, they are going to go out of their way to make it a very unpleasant experience here for him.

TheReverend
07-28-2011, 10:13 PM
Agreed. If we could free up 8.8m, it would make it that much easier to land Mebane or another prime DT. The more they try and wait it out to get what they think is fair, the more risk that these guys will get snatched up and the top tier of the market will thin out before we have a chance to use some of the money.

They need to be realistic with their demands. Now, to be fair, it has also been suggested that the main holdup is Orton not agreeing to a new deal with Miami. If that is the case, then Denver can still expedite the proceedings by making sure Orton knows that if he doesn't make a deal quickly, they are going to go out of their way to make it a very unpleasant experience here for him.

No way. If that were the issue he wouldn't be taking practice reps along with pressers saying "He's our guy".

SoCalBronco
07-28-2011, 10:16 PM
No way. If that were the issue he wouldn't be taking practice reps along with pressers saying "He's our guy".

Yeah I know Rev...I'm also thinking that the main thing is prolly we're still holding out for more compensation but I have also heard that other report that Miami wants him to reduce some salary and he doesn't want to.

In any event, Denver needs to do a much better job of expediting the process.

razorwire77
07-28-2011, 10:45 PM
No way. If that were the issue he wouldn't be taking practice reps along with pressers saying "He's our guy".

Yeah, that entire dance basically tips the hat of both teams. It's not about money it's compensation

Denver wants a 2nd rounder

Miami offered a 4th rounder

Hopefully, they meet in the middle with a 3rd or an escalating 4th and the deal gets closed and Orton's contract gets off the books.

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 02:35 AM
I haven't read all 11 pages but I'd imagine this thread is full of yeah buts....."Yeah but, Orton's RZ & 3rd down numbers weren't very good"

So here's my question.....What is so bad about EFX holding out for the best possible offer for Orton. Worst case scenario is you let Orton do what he does best.....Make good decisions, manage the game & move the chains/set up convertible 3rd down situations. That doesn't preclude letting Tebow do what he does best. Score TD's in the red zone and confuse defenses on key 3rd downs.

I've been advocating an Orton trade for over a year but since it wasn't possible at the best possible time (Pre-draft)....There's no sense just giving him away.

It wasn't too long ago when people didn't believe it RBBC.....I'd like to see Fox pull off QBBC.

You also forget the old saying - offense is defense. Orton's ultra conservative and geriatric offensive ability - his dinking and dunking - is what emboldens opposing offenses because Orton puts so little pressure on them to score.

This puts even more pressure on the Broncos defense. I think Orton's lack of heart and athleticism and play making ability also demoralizes his own team. I saw the effect in the very first Raiders game Tebow started. The Raiders didn't explode offensively until the Broncos coaches blinked with Tebow and wouldn't let him throw the ball in a bad position at the end of the game. Then bam.. the game was over. This illustrates the Orton impact, too. He plays the whole game like that.

2KBack
07-29-2011, 05:38 AM
Is it really a requirement to be Anti-Orton to be Pro-Tebow? It seems to me each have an abundance of positives and negatives. Am I allowed to think Orton is a pretty good QB while still being excited about what Tebow could offer?

No?

Nevermind then.

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 05:42 AM
Is it really a requirement to be Anti-Orton to be Pro-Tebow? It seems to me each have an abundance of positives and negatives. Am I allowed to think Orton is a pretty good QB while still being excited about what Tebow could offer?

No?

Nevermind then.

Doesn't it bother you that Orton takes no accountability for the team sucking? Even with all his limitations?

2KBack
07-29-2011, 05:45 AM
Doesn't it bother you that Orton takes no accountability for the team sucking? Even with all his limitations?

How has he not taken any accountability? Did he publicly defer blame at some point?

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 05:51 AM
How has he not taken any accountability? Did he publicly defer blame at some point?

Have you heard him take accountability? I haven't. Has he talked about the things he needs to improve on? Did he work on his athleticism in the off season? According to rumors McD brought Tebow in because Orton wasn't committed off the field.

2KBack
07-29-2011, 05:57 AM
Have you heard him take accountability? I haven't. Has he talked about the things he needs to improve on? Did he work on his athleticism in the off season? According to rumors McD brought Tebow in because Orton wasn't committed off the field.

So you are assuming based on things you HAVEN'T heard. That is always the best way to accuracy.

Because he hasn't bragged about his workouts into the microphones, you've assumed he doesn't do them.

According to "rumors", our inept cheating coach who everyone blames for our lack of talent thought Orton wasn't committed off the field.

Well at least these opinions have facts to back them up

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 06:05 AM
So you are assuming based on things you HAVEN'T heard. That is always the best way to accuracy.

Because he hasn't bragged about his workouts into the microphones, you've assumed he doesn't do them.

According to "rumors", our inept cheating coach who everyone blames for our lack of talent thought Orton wasn't committed off the field.

Well at least these opinions have facts to back them up

Well the rumors make sense.. they fit the reality. Why else would McD bring Tebow in? I think it was Woody Paige that said that was the case.

Also.. by watching Orton's play last season it seems painfully obvious he doesn't work on his athleticism.

Orton's behavior doesn't match that of a guy demanding to be the starter. He sets a horrible example or his teammates IMO. Also why it makes sense McD would bring in a great leader like Tebow over Orton.

Tebow showed far far more accountability in college than a seasoned vet like Orton in the pros.

2KBack
07-29-2011, 06:09 AM
Well the rumors make sense.. they fit the reality. Why else would McD bring Tebow in? I think it was Woody Paige that said that was the case.

Also.. by watching Orton's play last season it seems painfully obvious he doesn't work on his athleticism.

Orton's behavior doesn't match that of a guy demanding to be the starter. He sets a horrible example or his teammates IMO. Also why it makes sense McD would bring in a great leader like Tebow over Orton.

Tebow showed far far more accountability in college than a seasoned vet like Orton in the pros.


I ask again, how does he set this poor example? By being professional, going to work and working hard despite his status being completely up in the air for the second straight season in Denver....and pretty much the way his entire career has been?

I'm not saying Tebow ddoesn't do it...and better, but who does do that more than Tebow. That's the point...you can like them both.

MplsBronco
07-29-2011, 06:16 AM
I provided the link to an in depth Woody Paige analysis of the QB play last year and he came away with the statement I quoted. I made nothing up.

Here's a stat for you: in three games last year, Tebow threw AT LEAST one redzone pick (first drive against Houston I believe). Orton threw one in two seasons of play for us.

WTF is with you? The guy has started 3 games in the league. Yet he isn't supposed to throw INT's? Get real.

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 06:28 AM
I ask again, how does he set this poor example? By being professional, going to work and working hard despite his status being completely up in the air for the second straight season in Denver....and pretty much the way his entire career has been?

I'm not saying Tebow ddoesn't do it...and better, but who does do that more than Tebow. That's the point...you can like them both.

I think I have already answered this.

Orton doesn't take accountability by stating his weaknesses and he doesn't work on his weaknesses... and he acts like he isn't the problem. He has acted as if he played well and the team was the problem. His 3rd down and red zone stats show this isn't the case.


Then he pouts and acts as if he won't play behind Tebow. His behavior doesn't match his ability. And this sets a horrible example for his teammates. He acts like a prima donna and doesn't even perform like someone who would normally act like that.

Kaylore
07-29-2011, 06:32 AM
I think I have already answered this.

Orton doesn't take accountability by stating his weaknesses and he doesn't work on his weaknesses... and he acts like he isn't the problem. He has acted as if he played well and the team was the problem. His 3rd down and red zone stats show this isn't the case.


Then he pouts and acts as if he won't play behind Tebow. His behavior doesn't match his ability. And this sets a horrible example for his teammates. He acts like a prima donna and doesn't even perform like someone who would normally act like that.

You keep saying he "acts" a certain way and "pouts." When has he ever done either? Give examples or it didn't happen.

OABB
07-29-2011, 06:42 AM
You keep saying he "acts" a certain way and "pouts." When has he ever done either? Give examples or it didn't happen.

are you familiar with macruder? if you missed him before let me save you some hair pulling madness. walk away now. seriously. dont engage. i lost two weeks of my life that i can never get back.

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 06:44 AM
You keep saying he "acts" a certain way and "pouts." When has he ever done either? Give examples or it didn't happen.

Exactly.. give examples or it didn't happen. Where are the examples of Orotn taking accountability and working to improve his issues? There aren't any.

He also showed his attitude yesterday when he arrogantly said he liked his chances of being starter over Tebow and Quinn even though he was god awful last season and has apparently done nothing to to change his ways. Even thought he was outplayed by Tebow at the end of the season with Tebow having zero experience compared to Orton.

Beantown Bronco
07-29-2011, 06:44 AM
Have you heard him take accountability? I haven't. Has he talked about the things he needs to improve on? Did he work on his athleticism in the off season? According to rumors McD brought Tebow in because Orton wasn't committed off the field.

Exactly.. give examples or it didn't happen. Where are the examples of Orotn taking accountability and working to improve his issues? There aren't any.


Once again, making stuff up out of thin air I see....

"There's things that I got to do to improve, obviously, or we would have been in the playoffs last year," Orton said.

He said he wants to be a stronger leader and make better decisions in games.

"I think I can take my leadership to a whole new level," Orton said. "I think to have a great offense, you've got to have a guy that demands it from everybody, starting with himself. I demand perfection out of my play and I'm going to expect that from everybody else on our offense, as well. So, I think that's my main goal.

"And second, just take this offense to a whole new level, whether it's at the line of scrimmage, whether it's making the plays down the field, whether it's making something out of a busted play. Whatever it is, just make sure we get into the end zone when we need to get into the end zone."

Right after pulling off the trade, McDaniels called Orton and told him that while he was bringing in some better competition, he wasn't going to throw the job up for grabs like he did last year when Orton beat out Chris Simms.

"I told him I've never backed down from competition and it really won't change my mindset going into the season at all," Orton recounted.

And, he said, he appreciated the vote of confidence from his coach.

"I feel like I had a good year last year and I'm going to have an even better year this year," Orton said. "The more you can be around guys and the more you can be that guy and have everybody looking to you, the easier it is."

Orton said he especially wants to improve his rapport with third-year receiver Eddie Royal, who followed up his spectacular rookie season (91 catches, 980 yards, five TDs) with just 37 receptions and no touchdowns in one of the more stupefying story lines in Denver last season.

"I just think a lot of it was I was new to him, he was new to me and we just kind of ... we missed some plays," said Orton, who predicted Royal was "going to have a great year this year."

That could solve another problem for the Broncos, whose offense was confined mostly to underneath routes last season.

"It would be great to be able to hit some plays 25, 30 yards down the field," Orton said.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5060714

YOU JUST GOT OWNED

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 06:44 AM
are you familiar with macruder? if you missed him before let me save you some hair pulling madness. walk away now. seriously. dont engage. i lost two weeks of my life that i can never get back.

Now that's integrity...

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 06:49 AM
YOU JUST GOT OWNED


"I think I can take my leadership to a whole new level," Orton said. "I think to have a great offense, you've got to have a guy that demands it from everybody, starting with himself. I demand perfection out of my play and I'm going to expect that from everybody else on our offense, as well. So, I think that's my main goal.

BWAAHHAHA

You think that is taking accountability? read what he said through that whole article.. He NEVER took accountability..

I'm a perfectionist? lol

And he got WORSE the next season.. and he didn't even admit how awful he was the season before..

Wow.. you are more delusional than Orton... perfectionist.. bwahahahaha

His body sure is perfection.. maybe Tebow should take some physical fitness tips from the perrffectionist. Hilarious!

Broncojef
07-29-2011, 06:55 AM
Have you heard him take accountability? I haven't. Has he talked about the things he needs to improve on? Did he work on his athleticism in the off season? According to rumors McD brought Tebow in because Orton wasn't committed off the field.

Maybe the Broncos should be committed to small things like a running game and a halfway decent Defense. Orton was about the only thing that looked good from game to game with a cast that was subpar. Its amazing how good a quarterback looks when the running game works and pressure to deliver on every play is taken off the guys shoulders.

Beantown Bronco
07-29-2011, 06:58 AM
You think that is taking accountability? read what he said through that whole article.. He NEVER took accountability..


Learn to read, genius.

"There's things that I got to do to improve, obviously, or we would have been in the playoffs last year," Orton said.

He literally just said that they would've made the playoffs if HE played better. Not anyone else. HIM. That's the very definition of taking accountability.

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 06:59 AM
Maybe the Broncos should be committed to small things like a running game and a halfway decent Defense. Orton was about the only thing that looked good from game to game with a cast that was subpar. Its amazing how good a quarterback looks when the running game works and pressure to deliver on every play is taken off the guys shoulders.

Orotn's inability or fear of throwing deep is what gums up that running game. This is why the Broncos running game looked so mcuh better with Tebow.. because he has always been so aggressive about throwing the ball down field.

A big reason Orton can't and Tebow can is because Orton can't sit in the pocket and take hits and isn't mobile. So he has to get the ball out quick to receivers on short passes. Again. this is what gums the Broncos run game so horribly.

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 07:01 AM
Learn to read, genius.

"There's things that I got to do to improve, obviously, or we would have been in the playoffs last year," Orton said.

He literally just said that they would've made the playoffs if HE played better. Not anyone else. HIM. That's the very definition of taking accountability.

Playoffs??? LOL

That's called delusion.. not accountability. And his even worse performance the next season showed that.

WolfpackGuy
07-29-2011, 07:01 AM
Teams also aren't dedicating a person to spy on Orton escaping the pocket.

It's easier to stuff the run game and bring extra rushers when you know where the QB will be at all times.

baja
07-29-2011, 07:02 AM
Doesn't it bother you that Orton takes no accountability for the team sucking? Even with all his limitations?

You would do well with a little more balance in you assessments.

OABB
07-29-2011, 07:02 AM
Orotn's inability or fear of throwing deep is what gums up that running game. This is why the Broncos running game looked so mcuh better with Tebow.. because he has always been so aggressive about throwing the ball down field.

A big reason Orton can't and Tebow can is because Orton can't sit in the pocket and take hits and isn't mobile. So he has to get the ball out quick to receivers on short passes. Again. this is what gums the Broncos run game so horribly.

orton throws deep. the problem is he locks on to one pattern on third down. whether he is blitzed or the guy is covered, orton will launch a one hopper. orton is a good quarterback, bit he isnt great.

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 07:10 AM
orton throws deep. the problem is he locks on to one pattern on third down. whether he is blitzed or the guy is covered, orton will launch a one hopper. orton is a good quarterback, bit he isnt great.

He throws deep more than he wants to because teams dare him to. They know his strength is throwing short routes.. by sitting on these short routes they can take the run game away. Orton makes more deep throws than he would but he doesn't punish them near enough for defending him the way they do. They are daring him to beat them throwing downfield and he can't.

Tebow had a better Yard per attempt than Orton and most the QBs in the league in his 3 games.

This is why it is so deceptive to focus on QBs passing efficiency - completeion percentage.

OABB
07-29-2011, 07:11 AM
will i ever learn?

Beantown Bronco
07-29-2011, 07:13 AM
They are daring him to beat them throwing downfield and he can't.

#3 in the entire NFL in 40+ yd passing plays
#6 in the entire NFL in 20+ yd passing plays

despite missing a month of games.

Owned again.

Once, just once, I'd like to see you actually support your blanket retarded statements with some actual hard evidence. It would be refreshing to say the least.

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 07:14 AM
You would do well with a little more balance in you assessments.

I just call em like I see em Baja. Plus it really bugs me how people don't see Orton's line of BS.

He's snow jobbed a LOT of people.

WolfpackGuy
07-29-2011, 07:15 AM
Hell, anybody can throw deep.

How many of those catches were made hitting the guys in stride?

I saw more spectacular receptions than good throws for A LOT of the medium and long passes the last two years.

Do some of you even WATCH the games?

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 07:17 AM
#3 in the entire NFL in 40+ yd passing plays
#6 in the entire NFL in 20+ yd passing plays

despite missing a month of games.

Owned again.

Once, just once, I'd like to see you actually support your blanket retarded statements with some actual hard evidence. It would be refreshing to say the least.

You just don't get it.. stats are completely deceptive. If Orton is so good at passing downfield then why is the Broncos run game so terrible?

Why did their run game improve so much when Tebow played? Yes his running helps but if he couldn't pass downfield there is no way he would be able to do that.

For me to be able to prove what I am saying there would need to be a stat showing how the defense was defending the Broncos offense..

The key is - how many times did Orton actually punish the opposing defense for playing him soft deep?

Why is Orton's YPA so low? Compared to Tebow?

Cito Pelon
07-29-2011, 07:20 AM
I'm gonna wait and see how the three QB's look over the next 5-6 weeks.
If Tebow is having continual problems w/accuracy and poor reads, then I won't have a problem with starting Orton . . . .

Basically, it's way too early to tell who's the best QB.

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 07:20 AM
Hell, anybody can throw deep.

How many of those catches were made hitting the guys in stride?

I saw more spectacular receptions than good throws for A LOT of the medium and long passes the last two years.

Do some of you even WATCH the games?

Apparently watching the games isn't nearly as important as looking at the stat sheet...

Beantown Bronco
07-29-2011, 07:24 AM
Interesting. First you say this:

You just don't get it.. stats are completely deceptive.

then this:

Why is Orton's YPA so low? Compared to Tebow?

Ironic.

And there's less than a half yard difference between the two, despite Orton throwing it 500 times to Tebow's 80, so I'm not even sure what argument you're trying to make here.

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 07:29 AM
Interesting. First you say this:



then this:



Ironic.

And there's less than a half yard difference between the two, despite Orton throwing it 500 times to Tebow's 80, so I'm not even sure what argument you're trying to make here.

Tebow has 3 games and had few starter reps in practice even.. and has a better YPA than Orton who is supposedly.. "so polished".

Some stats are deceptive. most surface stats are. This is because teams dare players to go to their weakness. Teams are DARING Orton to pass deep which is why his passing numbers look good.

People believe the Broncos have a weak run game because Orton has big numbers and the runners don't.. but again.. this is likely deceptive. It is likely Orton statistically benefiting from his own ineptitude and damaging his runners.

Often the best player on a team has the worst stats because defenses are focused on stopping them and dare the rest of the team to beat them. If Orton is putting up such great hollow numbers what does that tell you?

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 07:32 AM
I can't believe people are still touting Orton's empty stats like they mean something...

Beantown Bronco
07-29-2011, 07:33 AM
I can't believe people are still touting Orton's empty stats like they mean something...

I would tout wins, but neither he nor Tebow have them, so.....

WolfpackGuy
07-29-2011, 07:36 AM
Apparently watching the games isn't nearly as important as looking at the stat sheet...

Fantasy stats trump winning. ALWAYS.

For what it's worth, Orton has a .357 win percentage as a Bronco.

Teboz has a .333 win percentage and he can hardly throw!

TheReverend
07-29-2011, 07:38 AM
You keep saying he "acts" a certain way and "pouts." When has he ever done either? Give examples or it didn't happen.

I ask for examples and get called combative :/

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 07:58 AM
I ask for examples and get called combative :/

You got your examples and it's still not enough. A secret government helicopter fell from the sky and was televised and burned with thermite and was going to be sent to China and it still wasn't enough for you.


But seriously people.. Orton starting is not a bad thing. I actually hope it happens. Orton stinking it up in the regular season will juts make Tebow look ten times better.

Hopefully it will finally put all this "polished" QB nonsense to rest too. Evaluating NFL QBs has become so much about how they "look"... instead of evaluating their actual results and putting them in proper contexts based on level of competition. Over and over high profile QB prospects are massively overrated and underrated by even the best "experts".

bowtown
07-29-2011, 08:02 AM
You got your examples and it's still not enough. A secret government helicopter fell from the sky and was televised and burned with thermite and was going to be sent to China and it still wasn't enough for you.

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/small/1008/non-sequiturs-chompers-puppy-non-sequiter-august-7-demotivational-poster-1281231361.jpg

crawdad
07-29-2011, 08:02 AM
Is it really a requirement to be Anti-Orton to be Pro-Tebow? It seems to me each have an abundance of positives and negatives. Am I allowed to think Orton is a pretty good QB while still being excited about what Tebow could offer?

No?

Nevermind then.

No, if you don't worship Tebow, you don't deserve to speak here! There are so many "pundits" here that believe we cannot work with Orton to make Tebow better. Tebow is not ready yet in my opinion!

Last year sucked because of Orton! It has absolutely nothing to do with our lack of an offensive line that exploded off the line and our defense that was so stellar that we had one of the highest "point scored against" ever.

TailgateNut
07-29-2011, 08:07 AM
How has he not taken any accountability? Did he publicly defer blame at some point?

macGruder is FOS. orton has never been like JAYbe and hung his team out to dry. He was humble when the were winning and his stats were awesome, and when we were not winning he shouldered the blame even though we had a *efense which closely resemble a sieve.

TailgateNut
07-29-2011, 08:09 AM
Exactly.. give examples or it didn't happen. Where are the examples of Orotn taking accountability and working to improve his issues? There aren't any.

He also showed his attitude yesterday when he arrogantly said he liked his chances of being starter over Tebow and Quinn even though he was god awful last season and has apparently done nothing to to change his ways. Even thought he was outplayed by Tebow at the end of the season with Tebow having zero experience compared to Orton.


The truth may be hard for you to swallow, but if you drink some water it may you digest it.

TailgateNut
07-29-2011, 08:12 AM
No, if you don't worship Tebow, you don't deserve to speak here! There are so many "pundits" here that believe we cannot work with Orton to make Tebow better. Tebow is not ready yet in my opinion!

Last year sucked because of Orton! It has absolutely nothing to do with our lack of an offensive line that exploded off the line and our defense that was so stellar that we had one of the highest "point scored against" ever.


The annointed one shall not be doubted!^5

Beantown Bronco
07-29-2011, 08:12 AM
I'm still waiting for MacGruder to post a quote from Orton along the lines of this gem:

“These guys?” Cutler asked, gesturing to the San Diego players celebrating behind him. “San Diego? No, I don’t think so. I think Indy’ll handle ‘em pretty good. We really can’t stop anybody, and that’s the bottom line.”

StugotsIII
07-29-2011, 08:13 AM
http://www.oregonlive.com/nfl/index.ssf/2011/07/quarterback_matt_moore_to_sign.html

Former Oregon State quarterback Matt Moore will sign a two-year deal with the Miami Dolphins today, according to a source close to the situation.

Moore, who spent the previous three seasons with the Carolina Panthers, arrives in Miami today to sign a contract worth $5 million with incentives that could push it as high as $7.5 million.

The incentives are mostly playing-time based, which means Moore would have to unseat incumbent starter Chad Henne, who threw for 3,301 yards and 15 scores while leading the Dolphins to a 7-9 record.

Miami reportedly held discussions with Denver about acquiring quarterback Kyle Orton. The addition of Moore probably ends those talks. Had Miami landed Orton, a source said Moore would have been in play with the Broncos, as well as San Diego.

Moore, who entered the league in 2007 with Dallas as an undrafted rookie free agent, last year signed a one-year deal with the Panthers worth $3 million deal as a restricted free agent. Moore beat out rookie Jimmy Clausen but struggled, completing 55.2 percent of his passes for 857 yards and five touchdowns with 10 interceptions over six games for an offense riddled with injuries.

Clausen eventually replaced Moore but didn’t perform any better and the Panthers finished 2-14. In April Carolina selected Auburn quarterback Cam Newton with the No. 1 overall pick making Moore expendable.

Miami would like to see Moore duplicate his performance at the end of the 2009 season when he led the team to victories in four of its final five games and finished the season with a 98.5 passer rating. Moore threw for 1,053 yards and eight touchdowns with two interceptions.

go_broncos
07-29-2011, 08:17 AM
If Orton doesn't get traded, then we should cut him.
He should not be playing for broncos this year.

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 08:23 AM
I'm still waiting for MacGruder to post a quote from Orton along the lines of this gem:

“These guys?” Cutler asked, gesturing to the San Diego players celebrating behind him. “San Diego? No, I don’t think so. I think Indy’ll handle ‘em pretty good. We really can’t stop anybody, and that’s the bottom line.”

That is a very vague statement.. was he talking about his D or the whole team?

montrose
07-29-2011, 08:24 AM
Dolphins signed Matt Moore to a 2-year deal, time to get ready for another season of Kyle Orton football?

TailgateNut
07-29-2011, 08:25 AM
Dolphins signed Matt Moore to a 2-year deal, time to get ready for another season of Kyle Orton football?

YEP!

Beantown Bronco
07-29-2011, 08:27 AM
That is a very vague statement.. was he talking about his D or the whole team?

Wow, just wow.

TheReverend
07-29-2011, 08:27 AM
Dolphins signed Matt Moore to a 2-year deal, time to get ready for another season of Kyle Orton football?

****.

Well... we ALMOST duped someone into thinking he was worth something.

Time to shift the focus back into duping the fans into that school of thought!

Rabb
07-29-2011, 08:29 AM
Dolphins signed Matt Moore to a 2-year deal, time to get ready for another season of Kyle Orton football?

you know, it's not that Orton will be here that bothers me

it's that, we seem to be ****ing up just about every deal out there right now

OABB
07-29-2011, 08:30 AM
****.

Well... we ALMOST duped someone into thinking he was worth something.

Time to shift the focus back into duping the fans into that school of thought!

im apop. this is devastating. the thought of an orton led broncos team makes me want to cry. no dts and orton ftl!

TailgateNut
07-29-2011, 08:31 AM
That is a very vague statement.. was he talking about his D or the whole team?


MAROON (sp);)

TheReverend
07-29-2011, 08:40 AM
im apop. this is devastating. the thought of an orton led broncos team makes me want to cry. no dts and orton ftl!

Yeah, I seriously might not watch it.

I've never even considered something like that.

OABB
07-29-2011, 08:42 AM
Yeah, I seriously might not watch it.

I've never even considered something like that.

me too. its life sucking. and i actually like orton.

Rigs11
07-29-2011, 08:46 AM
quinn outperformed tebow as well on day 1 of camp. what's the deal tebownites?

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 08:47 AM
Klis said the exact same thing about Orton and Qunn last year but then look what happens.. Tebow out performs both of them in actual games.

montrose
07-29-2011, 08:47 AM
My guess is they go with Orton all year, he has another strong statisical year but chokes away a lot of close games - finish about 5-11 or 4-12; Orton walks via free agency and Tebow gets moved for anything they can. They start fresh next year with a rookie not named Andrew Luck as they weren't bad enough to get to #1.

TailgateNut
07-29-2011, 08:48 AM
Klis said the exact same thing about Orton and Qunn last year but then look what happens.. Tebow out performs both of them in actual games.


Blah, blah, slurp!

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 08:52 AM
My guess is they go with Orton all year, he has another strong statisical year but chokes away a lot of close games - finish about 5-11 or 4-12; Orton walks via free agency and Tebow gets moved for anything they can. They start fresh next year with a rookie not named Andrew Luck as they weren't bad enough to get to #1.

I would agree with you.. I actually think this is what Elway wants to do.. but 2 problems..

Orton will lose bad early which will cause the fans to demand to put Tebow in. Even if they have to go through Orton and Quinn first.

Or Orton will get injured. I doubt Orton makes it through 5 games max.

Tebow will come in just like last season and show his dominance.

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 08:53 AM
Blah, blah, slurp!

The truth is delicious isn't it.. slurp.

bendog
07-29-2011, 08:59 AM
The TEAM played better. "Josh" had lost the team. The team was mailing it in. They got a new coach, and Tebow injected some enthusiasm on the field and the players responded. When Elway said the level of talent was better than the record, but they were nowhere near a serious playoff team, was that somehow misunderstood?

I realize this is a message board, and an hysterical one at that, but people shouldn't be surprised that a guy like Orton who played for Joe Tiller and then started 60 nfl games really is a better qb than a guy who played for Urban Meyer and started 3 nfl games. But, there's no doubt that physically Tebow has great potential. Orton's convinced that if the competition is open, he can beat out Tebow for the job, and that's why he's OK with playing for the nine million and looking at free agency in 2012. He's got all the leverage in terms of being willing to ok a trade by restructuring.

Rigs11
07-29-2011, 09:01 AM
Klis said the exact same thing about Orton and Qunn last year but then look what happens.. Tebow out performs both of them in actual games.

So then we should suspend camp and annoint tebow the starter?

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 09:05 AM
The TEAM played better. "Josh" had lost the team. The team was mailing it in. They got a new coach, and Tebow injected some enthusiasm on the field and the players responded. When Elway said the level of talent was better than the record, but they were nowhere near a serious playoff team, was that somehow misunderstood?

I realize this is a message board, and an hysterical one at that, but people shouldn't be surprised that a guy like Orton who played for Joe Tiller and then started 60 nfl games really is a better qb than a guy who played for Urban Meyer and started 3 nfl games. But, there's no doubt that physically Tebow has great potential. Orton's convinced that if the competition is open, he can beat out Tebow for the job, and that's why he's OK with playing for the nine million and looking at free agency in 2012. He's got all the leverage in terms of being willing to ok a trade by restructuring.

Tebow dominated and won against the best college defenses... NFL caliber players. What has Orton ever done other than manage games?

Tebow came in with no prep and outperformed Orton.

Orton's lack of aggressiveness and heart is what lost the team.. not McD.

Don't forget how opposing defenses were gunning for Tebow too.. Skip Bayless said even in preseason the intensity in the game skyrocketed when Tebow was in. It was like this in Tebow's regular season starts too.

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 09:06 AM
So then we should suspend camp and annoint tebow the starter?

They should suspend the BS "QB competition". They had one last year and Orton lost it.. horribly. Tebow earned a real shot.. He deserves full starter preparation. Orton had that last season and still blew it.

Drek
07-29-2011, 09:07 AM
Awesome. We're going to keep Kyle "I'll be in town one more year and no more!" Orton and miss out on getting a 26 year old run stuffing DT in the process. Way to build a system that can win long term Broncos FO!

Bob's your Information Minister
07-29-2011, 09:12 AM
Awesome. We're going to keep Kyle "I'll be in town one more year and no more!" Orton and miss out on getting a 26 year old run stuffing DT in the process. Way to build a system that can win long term Broncos FO!

You guys are at Defcon 2 or 3 now? ROFL!

Gort
07-29-2011, 09:14 AM
My guess is they go with Orton all year, he has another strong statisical year but chokes away a lot of close games - finish about 5-11 or 4-12; Orton walks via free agency and Tebow gets moved for anything they can. They start fresh next year with a rookie not named Andrew Luck as they weren't bad enough to get to #1.

Orton's presence will cause a rift in the locker room. i think he has to be traded.

on Dave Logan's show yesterday afternoon, Treadwell was talking about how uncomfortable the atmosphere is around camp because Orton refuses to go near Tebow, speak to Tebow, and also expects the starting QB job to be handed to him just because he's been around longer.

you've basically got Orton acting like a pouting teenager.

CEH
07-29-2011, 09:16 AM
Yeah, I seriously might not watch it.

I've never even considered something like that.

Try paying good money as well. Hello Craigslist

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 09:16 AM
Orton's presence will cause a rift in the locker room. i think he has to be traded.

on Dave Logan's show yesterday afternoon, Treadwell was talking about how uncomfortable the atmosphere is around camp because Orton refuses to go near Tebow, speak to Tebow, and also expects the starting QB job to be handed to him just because he's been around longer.

you've basically got Orton acting like a pouting teenager.

Pure class.

I would be scared ****less if I was Orton, too.

TailgateNut
07-29-2011, 09:18 AM
Orton's presence will cause a rift in the locker room. i think he has to be traded.

on Dave Logan's show yesterday afternoon, Treadwell was talking about how uncomfortable the atmosphere is around camp because Orton refuses to go near Tebow, speak to Tebow, and also expects the starting QB job to be handed to him just because he's been around longer.

you've basically got Orton acting like a pouting teenager.


What a crock of ****!

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 09:21 AM
See.. they get their example and it's still not good enough.

Man.. I just hope Orotn smarts off to Tebow and gets his clock cleaned.

Tebow's old offensive coordinator said that Tebow doesn't expect everyone to like him but he demands they respect him. Orton seriously better watch his arse.. That would be a really easy and quick way to end the "QB competition". Cage match! Orton would be fetal-ing alright.

bendog
07-29-2011, 09:22 AM
Tebow dominated and won against the best college defenses... NFL caliber players. What has Orton ever done other than manage games?

Tebow came in with no prep and outperformed Orton.

Orton's lack of aggressiveness and heart is what lost the team.. not McD.

Don't forget how opposing defenses were gunning for Tebow too.. Skip Bayless said even in preseason the intensity in the game skyrocketed when Tebow was in. It was like this in Tebow's regular season starts too.

Well, I guess Tim's just gonna get the offense to march up and down the old practice filed while Kyle just sucks rock ..... except it's not working out that way. There's no doubt Tebow brought some intensity to the field last year, but IF THE PLAYERS SEE ORTON AS THE BETTER QB GIVING THEM A BETTER CHANCE TO WIN, it's not gonna be a happy lockerroom.

You can post 'tim's a better qb' all day long, but generally a guy earns a job by out playing another guy in training camp. if Tebow can't do that, and still gets the job, and the team is losing games, it'll be a disaster all over again. And Den's go slim hope of being over .500. He's going to struggle.

and btw, you failed to notice NO URBAN MEYER qb has made it in the nfl.

TailgateNut
07-29-2011, 09:25 AM
See.. they get their example and it's still not good enough.

Man.. I just hope Orotn smarts off to Tebow and gets his clock cleaned.

Tebow's old offensive coordinator said that Tebow doesn't expect everyone to like him but he demands they respect him. Orton seriously better watch his arse.. That would be a really easy and quick way to end the "QB competition". Cage match! Orton would be fetal-ing alright.


What an IDIOT! You need psychological help.

broncosteven
07-29-2011, 09:33 AM
<quote>What's done is done and they'll likely add additional (but less impactful) pieces, but at this point is the roster thats added Elvis Dumervil, LenDale White, Jeremy Jarmon, Von Miller and the other rookies but lost Ryan Harris, Justin Bannan, Jamal Williams, Marcus Thomas, Ronald Fields, (eventually) Parrish Cox, Demaryius Thomas, Correll Buckhalter and Jabar Gaffney - really that much more talented than the one that only won 4 games a season ago? And that was a roster that knew Orton was the guy and Tebow the future, this one - like all of us - has no clue what the future plan is (if there even is one).</quote>


I agree, I think they should have got any value they could have for Orton if they went to the trouble to shop him around.

Out of the puss above I think Bannan only started showing effort after mCd was gone and Thomas would have been a good rotational guy to plug some holes.

Not sure why the FO is so focused on every position other than the DT position.

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 09:49 AM
Well, I guess Tim's just gonna get the offense to march up and down the old practice filed while Kyle just sucks rock ..... except it's not working out that way. There's no doubt Tebow brought some intensity to the field last year, but IF THE PLAYERS SEE ORTON AS THE BETTER QB GIVING THEM A BETTER CHANCE TO WIN, it's not gonna be a happy lockerroom.

You can post 'tim's a better qb' all day long, but generally a guy earns a job by out playing another guy in training camp. if Tebow can't do that, and still gets the job, and the team is losing games, it'll be a disaster all over again. And Den's go slim hope of being over .500. He's going to struggle.

and btw, you failed to notice NO URBAN MEYER qb has made it in the nfl.

I think the players likely see what is real and what isn't. They know the difference between practice and in the game. I think the coaches are the real issue... most coaches can't seem to understand that Tebow is healthier running than Orton is staying in the pocket. It's cognitive dissonance.. it's counter intuitive.

Plus, do Foz and Elway have the creativity to build a team around a unique player like Tebow? I don;'t think so.. this is the real issue. So why didn't the Broncos just trade Tebow? I think they are using him for his draw potential.

If Orton wasn't such a dumbass loser I think Tebow and him playing together like he did with Leak could be a great situation.. but Orton is a loser..

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 09:52 AM
and btw, you failed to notice NO URBAN MEYER qb has made it in the nfl.

Urban Meyer hadn't coached in the SEC before Tebow.

None of those guys before Tebow could have done what he did in the SEC.

Why do you think Meyer left all those places to go to the SEC???

Swedish Extrovert
07-29-2011, 04:37 PM
The Broncos have now had three practices - I've been to two and read the recap on the other. I'm disappointed to say that as of right now, Tim Tebow is the 3rd best QB on the team.

Swedish Extrovert
07-29-2011, 04:38 PM
On the bright side, Brady Quinn looks sharp.

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 04:45 PM
The Broncos have now had three practices - I've been to two and read the recap on the other. I'm disappointed to say that as of right now, Tim Tebow is the 3rd best QB on the team.

And this is why I put no stock in what you or others think of Tebow in practice. He's the best QB on our team. He proved that last year in actual games.

RaiderH8r
07-29-2011, 05:00 PM
On the bright side, Brady Quinn looks sharp.

Sounds familiar.

errand
07-29-2011, 05:17 PM
Kyle's always been great in practice. It's 3rd downs and 4th quarters that he struggles with.

...don't you mean the team struggles? We've sucked at 3rd down conversions and goal line/red zone situations long before Kyle ever came to Denver.....

errand
07-29-2011, 05:19 PM
except a certain crowd here will say it was only one practice...even though they won't say that today

let the better man win, it's our D that concerns me....we don't get on the DT train soon, it won't matter who our QB is

Exactly....I'm confident either guy can win games for us if our defense shows up. Before our defense went ass up in '09 we were 6-0 allowing less than 10 points per.

baja
07-29-2011, 05:22 PM
You guys are at Defcon 2 or 3 now? ROFL!

LOL

I don't hate you any more Bob. Funny stuff isn't it.

errand
07-29-2011, 05:23 PM
We all know that Orton is a accurate passer when nobody is rushing him. The second someone penetrates the line he folds like a lawn chair. I'll ride with Tebow, he's a gamer.

I can't think of any QB that isn't accurate when there's no pass rush....and likewise I can't name very many that don't suck when they're being tossed around like a rag doll.

I'm more concerned with our lack of a pass rush than how our QB fares with or without one in his face. without our D playing at a high level, we're a middle of the road team

baja
07-29-2011, 05:30 PM
On the bright side, Brady Quinn looks sharp.

I have been saying all along Quinn has been condemned without a trial on the OM.


BTW What is your acronym for the current O. M.

errand
07-29-2011, 05:44 PM
The other thing that sucks about Kyle Orton still being a Bronco is that he is taking away valuable 1st team reps that Tim Tebow needs....if they want to start Tim Tebow, he should be taking every rep possible with the 1st team in training camp.

this is something i don't understand...how is Orton "taking away valuable 1st team snaps" away from Tebow? i thought the head coach decided who the 1st team guy was...didn't know Kyle had that kind of clout.


If the Broncos are truly wanting to ship Orton outta town and hand it over to Tebow, then why aren't they letting Tebow take the 1st team reps, and making Orton run the 2nd team?
Perhaps Mr. Fox isn't sold on Tim as much as the fans are?

errand
07-29-2011, 05:50 PM
An 8-8 team, however unlikely, CAN make the playoffs. A 6-10 team can't.

Exactly.

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 05:58 PM
this is something i don't understand...how is Orton "taking away valuable 1st team snaps" away from Tebow? i thought the head coach decided who the 1st team guy was...didn't know Kyle had that kind of clout.


If the Broncos are truly wanting to ship Orton outta town and hand it over to Tebow, then why aren't they letting Tebow take the 1st team reps, and making Orton run the 2nd team?
Perhaps Mr. Fox isn't sold on Tim as much as the fans are?

Or maybe it's some kind of locker room politics thing. The coach wants it to look as much as possible like Tebow earned the job rather than them just giving it to Tebow. Though IMO Tebow already earned it with his play at the end of last season.

It is also possible that they want to use Orton's superior polished training camp skills as a way of pushing Tebow to improve small aspects of his game that will help him when he is a starter. Like using Orton as an on field demonstration to show Tebow how he needs to improve in his own weak areas that are Orton's strengths.

Tebow has all the things you can't teach a QB.. Orton's strengths are all the things that can be taught. In this way Orton could be a great mentor for Tebow.. too bad he's such a jerk about it though. Hopefully Tebow doesn't pick up Orton's flaws as a player and person while emulating him though. Wouldn't that suck?

errand
07-29-2011, 06:01 PM
I forgot one other thing that makes the sample size argument a joke. They played two common opponents. The Tebow led Broncos did far better against both.

so what was the outcome of those two games?

errand
07-29-2011, 06:03 PM
Wrong. He had 300 yards, 3 TDs, and 2 ints.

You want to know what Orton did against that same team last season? 200 yards, 1 TD, and 1 int.

Great argument...

so Tebow won the game?

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 06:04 PM
I can't think of any QB that isn't accurate when there's no pass rush....and likewise I can't name very many that don't suck when they're being tossed around like a rag doll.

I'm more concerned with our lack of a pass rush than how our QB fares with or without one in his face. without our D playing at a high level, we're a middle of the road team

I think "middle of the road" means something different to you than it does me. Right now we're a hot garbage sundae, and if Orton starts for us add a topping of whipped ****...

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 06:05 PM
so Tebow won the game?

No but we were a hell of a lot more competitive. Pretty simple concept.

errand
07-29-2011, 06:07 PM
I don't know how anyone who is a fan of this club didn't feel a level of unprecedented excitement during the last 3 games that hasn't been felt in Orton's entire time here.

.

You didn't get excited when we started 6-0 in '09...if you weren't then I fail to see how a 1-2 finish generated alot of joy....

DBroncos4life
07-29-2011, 06:09 PM
No but we were a hell of a lot more competitive. Pretty simple concept.

Losing is losing.

errand
07-29-2011, 06:09 PM
32-29 will do that to you

...yeah, but it took a miserable 3-10 season to drop his winning pct to just over .500%

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 06:10 PM
You didn't get excited when we started 6-0 in '09...if you weren't then I fail to see how a 1-2 finish generated alot of joy....

I think he meant excited for the QB position. That 6-0 start was more the result of the defense and some fortuitous bounces. I certainly wasn't particularly excited about Orton even then...

oubronco
07-29-2011, 06:12 PM
...yeah, but it took a miserable 3-10 season to drop his winning pct to just over .500%

Unfortunately it is what it is

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 06:20 PM
Losing is losing.

Sure it is. Losing by thirty feels just like losing a hard fought close game. ::)

errand
07-29-2011, 06:20 PM
Holy balls.

Did you watch the Cardinals game? Did you happen to notice the completely hapless and hopeless effort the entire team put forth? And no improvement of the team effort once Tebow took over?

you do know that Orton had a rib cage injury when he played vs Cards right?

baja
07-29-2011, 06:24 PM
Sure it is. Losing by thirty feels just like losing a hard fought close game. ::)

Yes, Tell him to ask Cleveland fans how they felt about "The Drive".

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 06:26 PM
you do know that Orton had a rib cage injury when he played vs Cards right?

Am I the only one that has noticed that whenever Orton plays like absolute crap there's an injury to blame? I'm thinking it'd be good to have a QB that can play through injuries, but maybe I'm just crazy...

errand
07-29-2011, 06:27 PM
We've already had almost two seasons to see what Orton can and can not do.

Do we need to suffer anymore?

Yet you want to hand the keys to the castle to a guy who's only had 3 starts? Look I think Tebow can become a special player, but I'm not sold on only three games, and I'm not sold on getting rid of a veteran QB that can play at a high level leaving us with a first round flop or the clown car to turn to should uberman fail or get hurt

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 06:28 PM
Yes, Tell him to ask Cleveland fans how they felt about "The Drive".

Better than Bronco fans feel about that 55-10 whooping they got in the Super Bowl I would imagine...

gtown
07-29-2011, 06:28 PM
Was at camp today. Orton looked pretty good outside of a few miscommunications with his receivers and a few picks to Miller. Tebow practiced a bit on the far field and had a few picks himself. Didn't notice how Quinn did as much because him and Orton were alternating with Orton getting the majority of snaps.

All three of them had some great throws. Orton was his usual self, but there was no pressure in his face and rarely did he have to throw without fully setting his feet.

Tebow had a number of nice deep outs and he has improved his short pass accuracy a bit. I am pretty sure I saw Decker drop a perfectly thown long ball of his in WR/DB drills. Tebow is going through his reads about a second slower than Orton and Quinn. The times that I saw him hurry he made bad throws. And he still has that long delivery too. Maybe a bit shorter than last year, but he has to lead his receiver an extra five yards to make the completion because of its length.

I think Orton will move the ball between the 20s pretty well this year, but Tebow will be better in the red zone because of his running ability. It's gonna be a long year either way it seems.

oubronco
07-29-2011, 06:28 PM
Better than Bronco fans feel about that 55-10 whooping they got in the Super Bowl I would imagine...

Doh

errand
07-29-2011, 06:30 PM
28926

..and yet they say Kolb would likely have similiar issues of his own....LOL

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 06:30 PM
Yet you want to hand the keys to the castle to a guy who's only had 3 starts? Look I think Tebow can become a special player, but I'm not sold on only three games, and I'm not sold on getting rid of a veteran QB that can play at a high level leaving us with a first round flop or the clown car to turn to should uberman fail or get hurt

What is so hard to understand about the fact that we need to see what Tebow can do, and that Orton is going to be gone next year anyway? If we start Orton we are basically wasting our time trying to eke out an extra win or two (which won't even happen sadly), rather than working toward the future. It's really very simple.

errand
07-29-2011, 06:32 PM
We can at least enjoy watching Tebow regardless of how bad the defense is. Anybody honestly jazzed up about watching Orton?

So losing with a running QB jazzes you up? I guess style points count in your bizzarro world.

errand
07-29-2011, 06:35 PM
I knew that was likely what is killing his value, and why Miami is so hesitant. It's also why we have to get rid of the guy. By the way, Tebow killed it in those situations comparatively.

It's not 3rd down conversions that's making Miami balk...it's the fact they know we're 9 mil over cap and we'll have to release Orton if we don't trade him...unless we get rid of 9 mil by releasing several players instead of one

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 06:36 PM
Was at camp today. Orton looked pretty good outside of a few miscommunications with his receivers and a few picks to Miller. Tebow practiced a bit on the far field and had a few picks himself. Didn't notice how Quinn did as much because him and Orton were alternating with Orton getting the majority of snaps.

All three of them had some great throws. Orton was his usual self, but there was no pressure in his face and rarely did he have to throw without fully setting his feet.

Tebow had a number of nice deep outs and he has improved his short pass accuracy a bit. I am pretty sure I saw Decker drop a perfectly thown long ball of his in WR/DB drills. Tebow is going through his reads about a second slower than Orton and Quinn. The times that I saw him hurry he made bad throws. And he still has that long delivery too. Maybe a bit shorter than last year, but he has to lead his receiver an extra five yards to make the completion because of its length.

I think Orton will move the ball between the 20s pretty well this year, but Tebow will be better in the red zone because of his running ability. It's gonna be a long year either way it seems.

He's got to lead his receivers an extra 5 yards due to his 1/10th of a second longer release? Seriously? How fast are our receivers? They travel 15 feet in 1/10th of a second? Hilarious!

Archer81
07-29-2011, 06:36 PM
Yet you want to hand the keys to the castle to a guy who's only had 3 starts? Look I think Tebow can become a special player, but I'm not sold on only three games, and I'm not sold on getting rid of a veteran QB that can play at a high level leaving us with a first round flop or the clown car to turn to should uberman fail or get hurt


So let the less talented QB in Orton start. How does that help Tebow? If the issue is a lack of starts, not letting him play will not fix on-field inexperience. Only way to know to do something is to do it. I would rather Tebow take his lumps this year and show improvement over 16 games then watch Orton trip over himself all season.

:Broncos:

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 06:37 PM
Yet you want to hand the keys to the castle to a guy who's only had 3 starts? Look I think Tebow can become a special player, but I'm not sold on only three games, and I'm not sold on getting rid of a veteran QB that can play at a high level leaving us with a first round flop or the clown car to turn to should uberman fail or get hurt

Don't you trust Elway's ability to judge talent? How much do you need to see of Tebow before you believe he can perform?

Do you only doubt Tebow because you heard so much negativity about him compared to other elite QB prospects?

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 06:38 PM
So let the less talented QB in Orton start. How does that help Tebow? If the issue is a lack of starts, not letting him play will not fix on-field inexperience. Only way to know to do something is to do it. I would rather Tebow take his lumps this year and show improvement over 16 games then watch Orton trip over himself all season...AGAIN.

:Broncos:

Fixed.

errand
07-29-2011, 06:38 PM
It's not BS. All that proves is that he protects the ball in red zone.

..well we certainly wouldn't want our QB to do that, now would we?

errand
07-29-2011, 06:40 PM
All I know is Jake Plummer has been the best QB we've had since Elway and he couldn't hit a barn unless he was on the bootleg.

..and yet oddly enough we had people on here who despised him.....

gtown
07-29-2011, 06:41 PM
He's got to lead his receivers an extra 5 yards due to his 1/10th of a second longer release? Seriously? How fast are our receivers? They travel 15 feet in 1/10th of a second? Hilarious!

The CBs and safety's were getting good break on his throws today. If it wasn't the windup that was tipping them off it was him staring down the receiver as he went through his reads.

A receiver running near a 4.5 forty would go about 5 yards (or 15 feet) in half a second - so fast, but not that fast. But, I am willing to bet Tebow's wind up takes more than a few tenths of a second longer than Orton or Quinn's.

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 06:43 PM
..well we certainly wouldn't want our QB to do that, now would we?

I'd prefer one who actually puts points on the board.

Am I the only one who remembers how Orton was on pace to throw for 5000 yards and we still couldn't score any points?

Archer81
07-29-2011, 06:43 PM
The CBs and safety's were getting good break on his throws today. If it wasn't the windup that was tipping them off it was him staring down the receiver as he went through his reads.

A receiver running near a 4.5 forty would go about 5 yards (or 15 feet) in half a second - so fast, but not that fast. But, I am willing to bet Tebow's wind up takes more than a few tenths of a second longer than Orton or Quinn's.


I think its this more than his "windup". That happens when you have a guy with 3 starts going into his second season.


:Broncos:

errand
07-29-2011, 06:45 PM
That's Orton's one strength: passing from a perfectly shaped and long-lasting pocket. It's ridiculous honestly.



So why get rid of Orton? Why not build a better pass blocking line? If his strength is passing fom the pocket, why not give the guy better protection....Tebow being able to gain 10 yards on 3rd and 9 is great but it says more about our lack of a good OL than it does about his athletic ability

snowspot66
07-29-2011, 06:45 PM
So losing with a running QB jazzes you up? I guess style points count in your bizzarro world.

Being realistic we're going to be losing a good bit regardless of who the QB is. Orton walks after this year guaranteed. He sure as hell won't show enough to sign him long term. Before we go sinking an extremely high draft pick into a QB in next years draft I'd like to take a look at the first round QB we already have on the roster and let the results speak for themselves.

And yes, Tebow will be infinitely more exciting than Orton.

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 06:48 PM
The CBs and safety's were getting good break on his throws today. If it wasn't the windup that was tipping them off it was him staring down the receiver as he went through his reads.

A receiver running near a 4.5 forty would go about 5 yards (or 15 feet) in half a second - so fast, but not that fast. But, I am willing to bet Tebow's wind up takes more than a few tenths of a second longer than Orton or Quinn's.

It doesn't. 1/10th of a second is probably a bit high actually (seriously how long to you think it takes anyone to wind up and throw a football?). If they were breaking on his passes he was staring down his receivers It's a common mistake for a young QB. I saw footage of one pick on the Broncos website where he simply threw into tight coverage and Bailey made him pay--that's called a learning experience.

errand
07-29-2011, 06:50 PM
When the real game starts..Orton sucks.
need to trade orton to avoid QB controversy.

I don't want a QB controversy, but I'm curious as to why Orton is supposed to have competition for the starter's job, but Tebow doesn't?

Wouldn't a spirited competition actually settle this debate once and for all? And if Orton wins it outright, will he have your support? I thik thye both can win games for us if our defensive woes get solved

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 06:50 PM
So why get rid of Orton? Why not build a better pass blocking line? If his strength is passing fom the pocket, why not give the guy better protection....Tebow being able to gain 10 yards on 3rd and 9 is great but it says more about our lack of a good OL than it does about his athletic ability

Is this a joke?

Archer81
07-29-2011, 06:50 PM
So why get rid of Orton? Why not build a better pass blocking line? If his strength is passing fom the pocket, why not give the guy better protection....Tebow being able to gain 10 yards on 3rd and 9 is great but it says more about our lack of a good OL than it does about his athletic ability


...Because even with great offensive lines the QB will not have the perfect pocket? You are also strengthening the anti-Orton argument. Nothing in football is perfect, if a QB needs things to be perfect to be successful, he will not be a very good QB.

I would rather have the kid with the ability to get 10 on 3rd and 9 when things break down then the guy who can throw a perfect ball in practice.

:Broncos:

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 06:56 PM
I don't want a QB controversy, but I'm curious as to why Orton is supposed to have competition for the starter's job, but Tebow doesn't?

Wouldn't a spirited competition actually settle this debate once and for all? And if Orton wins it outright, will he have your support? I thik thye both can win games for us if our defensive woes get solved

No because if Orton wins the competition the Broncos lose. Why don't you get that? Orton starting one more year and then walking does us no good whatsoever. It only keeps us from really being able to assess if Tebow is the guy for us going forward or not. The fact is that Orton is a veteran QB capable of putting up decent stats (even if they are mostly empty stats). Tebow is a guy who has one year under his belt and is generally raw as most young QBs are. Requiring him to beat out Orton in camp to get a shot is asinine. Bradford probably couldn't beat Orton in training camp either.

The fact is that Orton has shown us enough to know we don't want him as our long term starter, and he's leaving next year. Therefore we need to move on and start trying to figure out what we are going to do at QB. Starting Tebow this year would be the first step in that process.

RaiderH8r
07-29-2011, 07:01 PM
I don't want a QB controversy, but I'm curious as to why Orton is supposed to have competition for the starter's job, but Tebow doesn't?

Wouldn't a spirited competition actually settle this debate once and for all? And if Orton wins it outright, will he have your support? I thik thye both can win games for us if our defensive woes get solved

No. Spirited competitions never settle these debates. Orton has to go and if he really did scuttle the Miami deal he needs to be beaten with an AIDS tree on the way out of town.

I want Orton gone. He's a hinderance to our long term prospects. His best value was before the draft but NOOOOO. Football gods couldn't have us capitalize on his market value. No, the media went and Kolbed up the market for that douche for 100+days of lockout which they should have been doing for Orton. Christ we can't catch a break. Orton needs a Kolbing and we need him to get the F out of town in exchange for a starting DL and a second rounder. Seriously, WTF is Arizona thinking? Philly got the gold and Whisenhunt got the shaft. Don't worry Whisenhunt, I know how you feel.

These guys are a bunch of pudknockers. Who's the next DL talent we miss on? Who is the collective bunch of meat sacks we do end up paying too much for while they produce nothing? Is Gerard Warren available? Let's just go straight to the end of this story and I can rest assured that some things in life will never change.

errand
07-29-2011, 07:02 PM
all of this 3rd down conversion talk is nonsense....we ranked 28th in 3rd down conversion rate at 32.4%...but we only had 207 3rd downs...which puts us at 21st overall...so does Kyle get any credit for not putting us in so many 3rd down situations to begin with?

snowspot66
07-29-2011, 07:02 PM
The CBs and safety's were getting good break on his throws today. If it wasn't the windup that was tipping them off it was him staring down the receiver as he went through his reads.

A receiver running near a 4.5 forty would go about 5 yards (or 15 feet) in half a second - so fast, but not that fast. But, I am willing to bet Tebow's wind up takes more than a few tenths of a second longer than Orton or Quinn's.

Well assuming any receiver can even get to top speed while running a route through traffic the math doesn't add up. Running a 4.5 40 means 8.8 yards a second. It may seem awkward and slow but the difference between Orton and Tebow's throwing motion is not likely to be more than 2/10 of a second. Three at the absolute most. Basically around 2.2 yards give or take a little.

This is also assuming all of our receivers can run a route at 4.5 speed, in traffic, and with pads on.

The wind up is all but irrelevant. He definitely needs practice so he stops staring down the receivers though.

snowspot66
07-29-2011, 07:05 PM
all of this 3rd down conversion talk is nonsense....we ranked 28th in 3rd down conversion rate at 32.4%...but we only had 207 3rd downs...which puts us at 21st overall...so does Kyle get any credit for not putting us in so many 3rd down situations to begin with?

That could also be because we went three and out and instead of having multiple third downs in a drive we only had one.

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 07:06 PM
all of this 3rd down conversion talk is nonsense....we ranked 28th in 3rd down conversion rate at 32.4%...but we only had 207 3rd downs...which puts us at 21st overall...so does Kyle get any credit for not putting us in so many 3rd down situations to begin with?

Are you ****ing serious? Hilarious!

errand
07-29-2011, 07:11 PM
Tebow is a guy who has one year under his belt and is generally raw as most young QBs are. Requiring him to beat out Orton in camp to get a shot is asinine. Bradford probably couldn't beat Orton in training camp either.


So let me get this straight....You're saying that a raw, virtual rookie shouldn't be required to win the starting QB job? I'm not saying you're stupid...but, wouldn't you have to be? to think that a virtual rookie shouldn't be required to win the starting QB job?

I'll demonstrate your absurdity by being absurd myself...

I should be the Broncos starting QB....my resume' speaks for itself....and I might add is quite impressive. I admit though that i'm kind of raw...

I've never QB'd a losing team in college or the pros

I've never thrown an INT in college or the pros

I've never been sacked or mismanaged the time clock, nor have I ever had a penalty flag thrown on me

I've never fumbled

I've never lost a college or pro game

Not even Tebow can make these claims.....

Archer81
07-29-2011, 07:12 PM
all of this 3rd down conversion talk is nonsense....we ranked 28th in 3rd down conversion rate at 32.4%...but we only had 207 3rd downs...which puts us at 21st overall...so does Kyle get any credit for not putting us in so many 3rd down situations to begin with?


Uhh...what?

No NFL team had more than 242 third down attempts. Denver converted on 3rd down 67 out of 207 times. Good for 29th in the NFL.



:Broncos:

gtown
07-29-2011, 07:12 PM
Well assuming any receiver can even get to top speed while running a route through traffic the math doesn't add up. Running a 4.5 40 means 8.8 yards a second. It may seem awkward and slow but the difference between Orton and Tebow's throwing motion is not likely to be more than 2/10 of a second. Three at the absolute most. Basically around 2.2 yards give or take a little.

This is also assuming all of our receivers can run a route at 4.5 speed, in traffic, and with pads on.

The wind up is all but irrelevant. He definitely needs practice so he stops staring down the receivers though.

I agree - staring down receivers and going through his reads a bit slower are what young QBs do. I think that is most of it. But still, with an elongated wind up he risks interceptions since the windows are so small in the NFL.

Don't get me wrong. We all know what Orton can and can't do - and its drive the ball between the 20s before hitting a wall in the red zone. I want Tebow to go out there and take his lumps. He seems mentality up to it.

errand
07-29-2011, 07:13 PM
Are you ****ing serious? Hilarious!

So you're saying that leading the league in 3rd down attempts is a good thing?

snowspot66
07-29-2011, 07:14 PM
No he shouldn't be required to win it. Why? Because of time and resources. We've sunk the resources into Tebow and we only have one year to decide if it's worth trying to make a go with him or to draft the best QB we can get our hands on next spring.

Playing Orton gets us absolutely nothing long term.

errand
07-29-2011, 07:15 PM
Uhh...what?

No NFL team had more than 242 third down attempts. Denver converted on 3rd down 67 out of 207 times. Good for 29th in the NFL.



:Broncos:

So not facing third down as often is a bad thing?

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 07:16 PM
So let me get this straight....You're saying that a raw, virtual rookie shouldn't be required to win the starting QB job?

Yes if he's a 1st rounder, the guy that will end up starting otherwise is going to walk after the season, and your team has no serious hopes of contending or even making the playoffs. Teams have done it forever.

Seriously why do you not understand that starting Orton offers no long-term benefit to the Broncos? Absolutely none. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

errand
07-29-2011, 07:17 PM
No he shouldn't be required to win it. Why? Because of time and resources. We've sunk the resources into Tebow and we only have one year to decide if it's worth trying to make a go with him or to draft the best QB we can get our hands on next spring.

Playing Orton gets us absolutely nothing long term.

So just give him the starter's job...I guess merit means nothing these days

Beantown Bronco
07-29-2011, 07:18 PM
Am I the only one that has noticed that whenever Orton plays like absolute crap there's an injury to blame? I'm thinking it'd be good to have a QB that can play through injuries, but maybe I'm just crazy...

For the first 4 games of the 6-0 run at the start of the 2009 season, he had a cast over a broken finger on his freaking throwing hand.

snowspot66
07-29-2011, 07:19 PM
So just give him the starter's job...I guess merit means nothing these days

It's a business isn't it?

Archer81
07-29-2011, 07:19 PM
So not facing third down as often is a bad thing?


That is the dumbest argument in support of a QB I have heard in a long time. Orton should stay. He only got Denver into 3rd down 207 times. So what when Denver was in 3rd down they converted 32% of the time. So what if the QB has no ability to make plays happen when things break down. He throws a pretty spiral in practice.

Championship...

:Broncos:

errand
07-29-2011, 07:20 PM
Yes if he's a 1st rounder, the guy that will end up starting otherwise is going to walk after the season, and your team has no serious hopes of contending or even making the playoffs. Teams have done it forever.

Seriously why do you not understand that starting Orton offers no long-term benefit to the Broncos? Absolutely none. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

So you're saying that no matter what we do with Orton as our QB, he's gone next season? No chance that we make the playoffs and he gets re-signed? no chance that he plays very well and gets another year or two?

Is that not possible?

errand
07-29-2011, 07:21 PM
That is the dumbest argument in support of a QB I have heard in a long time. Orton should stay. He only got Denver into 3rd down 207 times. So what when Denver was in 3rd down they converted 32% of the time. So what if the QB has no ability to make plays happen when things break down. He throws a pretty spiral in practice.

Championship...

:Broncos:no more ignorant than giving to the starter's job to a virtual rookie instead of making him EARN it

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 07:22 PM
So not facing third down as often is a bad thing?

It's not really a good or a bad thing. All it really indicates is how methodical vs big play oriented your offense is. Generally fewer third downs means less running, poor TOP ratios, and possibly more big plays.

snowspot66
07-29-2011, 07:22 PM
So you're saying that no matter what we do with Orton as our QB, he's gone next season? No chance that we make the playoffs and he gets re-signed? no chance that he plays very well and gets another year or two?

Is that not possible?

The odds of that all happening are too small to stake the next few years of this franchise on.

errand
07-29-2011, 07:25 PM
It's a business isn't it?

It's a business...so you're content with a 9 million dollar back-up? I doubt anyone will trade for Orton unless he's willing to sign a new deal for less money ( and why would he play for less money when he could sit for a year and earn 33% more as our back-up)

We're 9 mil over cap and that's what his hit is....any smart GM would just wait until he gets released...if he does that is.

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 07:25 PM
no more ignorant than giving to the starter's job to a virtual rookie instead of making him EARN it

Something that has been done with virtually every 1st round QB that has ever been on a team with no long term solution at QB and no real chance at contending. You do get that right?

Dr. Broncenstein
07-29-2011, 07:25 PM
For the first 4 games of the 6-0 run at the start of the 2009 season, he had a cast over a broken finger on his freaking throwing hand.

Quick... someone break his throwing hand and get him back on the winning track.

Shananahan
07-29-2011, 07:26 PM
So you're saying that no matter what we do with Orton as our QB, he's gone next season? No chance that we make the playoffs and he gets re-signed? no chance that he plays very well and gets another year or two?

Is that not possible?
No, it isn't. You're either delusional or simply ignorant if you believe Orton is being resigned by the Denver Broncos.

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 07:26 PM
It's a business...so you're content with a 9 million dollar back-up? I doubt anyone will trade for Orton unless he's willing to sign a new deal for less money ( and why would he play for less money when he could sit for a year and earn 33% more as our back-up)

We're 9 mil over cap and that's what his hit is....any smart GM would just wait until he gets released...if he does that is.

Which is why we should've just dumped his ass before he got his roster bonus...

snowspot66
07-29-2011, 07:26 PM
It's a business...so you're content with a 9 million dollar back-up? I doubt anyone will trade for Orton unless he's willing to sign a new deal for less money ( and why would he play for less money when he could sit for a year and earn 33% more as our back-up)

We're 9 mil over cap and that's what his hit is....any smart GM would just wait until he gets released...if he does that is.

No I would rather we trade him but apparently he's too stubborn to work out a contract. For his stubbornness I would reward him with a seat on the bench.

Archer81
07-29-2011, 07:27 PM
no more ignorant than giving to the starter's job to a virtual rookie instead of making him EARN it


Yeah...

Orton is SO much better he should be considered the nominal starter just because. The best way Orton can help the Denver Broncos is to be collateral in a trade that brings defensive line help. Otherwise he can GTFO.


:Broncos:

errand
07-29-2011, 07:27 PM
The odds of that all happening are too small to stake the next few years of this franchise on.

If Orton's starting this year and sucks, so what...Tebow will still be on the roster and he'll get to start if Fox yanks the chain, and Tebow will still be here when Orton leaves next season, so how you can say it'll set us back a few years is odd

snowspot66
07-29-2011, 07:29 PM
If Orton's starting this year and sucks, so what...Tebow will still be on the roster and he'll get to start if Fox yanks the chain, and Tebow will still be here when Orton leaves next season, so how you can say it'll set us back a few years is odd

Elway wants a franchise QB. If we can't properly evaluate Tebow this year how are we going to make appropriate decisions come draft time?

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 07:29 PM
So you're saying that no matter what we do with Orton as our QB, he's gone next season? No chance that we make the playoffs and he gets re-signed? no chance that he plays very well and gets another year or two?

Is that not possible?

The chances are virtually nil of that happening. This FO has absolutely no faith in Orton as a long term starter and will either go with Tebow or draft some other guy. My fear is that they will start Orton for another year, then draft a QB next draft having never even given Tebow a real shot. They seem to be stupid enough from what I'm seeing to do just that.

Finger Roll
07-29-2011, 07:30 PM
Something that has been done with virtually every 1st round QB that has ever been on a team with no long term solution at QB and no real chance at contending. You do get that right?

Yeah, I don't get why people are defending Orton and want him to start. What's the point to go 5-11 instead of 4-12? This team is going to suck ass this year with or without him so might as well start Tebow.

errand
07-29-2011, 07:30 PM
Yeah...

Orton is SO much better he should be considered the nominal starter just because. The best way Orton can help the Denver Broncos is to be collateral in a trade that brings defensive line help. Otherwise he can GTFO.


:Broncos:

I never said Orton shouldn't be required to earn the starter's job either.....just wondering why he has to win it but Tebow should be handed it. i think if Orton isn't dealt then open the job up to competition and may the best man win and knowing Tebow, I suspect he'd have it no other way

Shananahan
07-29-2011, 07:31 PM
If Orton isn't dealt then they should cut him.

errand
07-29-2011, 07:32 PM
Yeah, I don't get why people are defending Orton and want him to start. What's the point to go 5-11 instead of 4-12? This team is going to suck ass this year with or without him so might as well start Tebow.

Then **** ****, why not start quinn and trade Tebow AND Orton? We're gonna suck anyways. We can use the cap money to build a defense and draft Luck next season #1 over all

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 07:36 PM
Then **** ****, why not start quinn and trade Tebow AND Orton? We're gonna suck anyways. We can use the cap money to build a defense and draft Luck next season #1 over all

Tebow isn't going to walk next year. Tebow doesn't cost 8.8 million dollars. Tebow is an unknown commodity. We invested a 1st round pick in Tebow.

None of those things is true of Orton. Again why don't you get what is so obvious to the rest of us?

Archer81
07-29-2011, 07:36 PM
I never said Orton shouldn't be required to earn the starter's job either.....just wondering why he has to win it but Tebow should be handed it. i think if Orton isn't dealt then open the job up to competition and may the best man win and knowing Tebow, I suspect he'd have it no other way


You know what will happen?

Orton will look good in practice. Tebow will look good in games. Some people will say well Orton looks great in practice, he is a 7 year vet, Tebow only have 3 starts, yada yada yada.

Tebow will win the job. Ortonites will despair and we have the next great OM debate for the next 8 months.

:Broncos:

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 07:37 PM
If Orton isn't dealt then they should cut him.

Should've cut him before the roster bonus to be honest.

snowspot66
07-29-2011, 07:38 PM
You know what will happen?

Orton will look good in practice. Tebow will look good in games. Some people will say well Orton looks great in practice, he is a 7 year vet, Tebow only have 3 starts, yada yada yada.

Tebow will win the job. Ortonites will despair and we have the next great OM debate for the next 8 months.

:Broncos:

I hope you're right. At the moment I have no faith in the FO to make the correct QB decision.

errand
07-29-2011, 07:39 PM
The chances are virtually nil of that happening. This FO has absolutely no faith in Orton as a long term starter and will either go with Tebow or draft some other guy. My fear is that they will start Orton for another year, then draft a QB next draft having never even given Tebow a real shot. They seem to be stupid enough from what I'm seeing to do just that.

I'm confident we can win with either guy lining up under center

If they draft some other guy then I'd guess that means they have no faith in Tebow either there genius. If they had no faith in Orton then they'd have cut him bonehead...eat the contract and be done with it. Orton has thrown for almost 7,000 yards with 41 TD's vs 21 INT's the past two years on a below average talented team.

When given the chance to win the starter's job, he's won it EVERY time...in Chicago and Denver. He's no Peyton Manning, but he's also no JaMarcus Russell either. If we dump Kyle and Tebow gets hurt, then what?

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 07:40 PM
I hope you're right. At the moment I have no faith in the FO to make the correct QB decision.

You and I both. This almost feels worse than when McD was running things. I didn't think that would be possible...

Archer81
07-29-2011, 07:41 PM
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4DVAsmrwdtQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:Broncos:

Finger Roll
07-29-2011, 07:42 PM
I'm confident we can win with either guy lining up under center

If they draft some other guy then I'd guess that means they have no faith in Tebow either there genius. If they had no faith in Orton then they'd have cut him bonehead...eat the contract and be done with it. Orton has thrown for almost 7,000 yards with 41 TD's vs 21 INT's the past two years on a below average talented team.

When given the chance to win the starter's job, he's won it EVERY time...in Chicago and Denver. He's no Peyton Manning, but he's also no JaMarcus Russell either. If we dump Kyle and Tebow gets hurt, then what?

His stats are bogus. Garbage time numbers

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 07:43 PM
I'm confident we can win with either guy lining up under center

Having been paying attention to this team lately? At all? Seriously? You're confident we can win with either guy? Wow...

Finger Roll
07-29-2011, 07:44 PM
I know for a fact we can't win with Orton. 6-20 since that fluke 6-0 start

errand
07-29-2011, 07:48 PM
No, it isn't. You're either delusional or simply ignorant if you believe Orton is being resigned by the Denver Broncos.

So if he plays well and we win games, he has no chance of being re-signed by the Broncos? and here I thought the NFL was a performanced based business

lostknight
07-29-2011, 07:49 PM
Cecil Lammy's posts from today:

Tebow looked better today, good but not great, seemed to be throwing naturally instead of aiming, took some chances downfield

tebow had a decent day passing but did throw at least 1 pick, some WRs really let him down too

Tebow threaded the needle between two defenders but D'Andre Goodwin dropped the pass, good to see Tebow take the chance and not checkdown

I liked Tebow's footwork today, very precise and he spun the ball better because of it, first part of throwing starts in your legs

QB Orton still looked focused, throwing with zip although timing was a little off today, some passes low and behind WRs

one of the low passes from #broncos QB Orton was picked off by Von Miller...a GREAT play where he scooped the ball with two hands

Brady Quinn looked more confident running the offense and continued his strong performance in #broncos training camp, making the most of it

I liked what I saw from Eddie Royal today... adjusted to poorly thrown pass from Orton in stride, gathered it and turned upfield, good play!



Cecil's quite pleased with Decker. I'm looking forward to seeing them tommorow.

errand
07-29-2011, 07:49 PM
I know for a fact we can't win with Orton. 6-20 since that fluke 6-0 start

It's not that we can't win with Orton clown....it's that we can't win with Orton playing against two defenses

TheReverend
07-29-2011, 07:50 PM
I know for a fact we can't win with Orton. 6-20 since that fluke 6-0 start

5-18 for Kyle

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 07:51 PM
So if he plays well and we win games, he has no chance of being re-signed by the Broncos? and here I thought the NFL was a performanced based business

Jesus Christ...

Steve Prefontaine
07-29-2011, 07:51 PM
So why get rid of Orton? Why not build a better pass blocking line? If his strength is passing fom the pocket, why not give the guy better protection....Tebow being able to gain 10 yards on 3rd and 9 is great but it says more about our lack of a good OL than it does about his athletic ability
I sort of follow your logic there.

No I don't.

Not at all.

TheReverend
07-29-2011, 07:52 PM
It's not that we can't win with Orton clown....it's that we can't win with Orton playing against two defenses

I thought he "just wins"?

Not anymore though?

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 07:53 PM
It's not that we can't win with Orton clown....it's that we can't win with Orton playing against two defenses

I thought you said you were confident we could win with either guy. Which is it?

Finger Roll
07-29-2011, 07:55 PM
Yeah, he just wins if he plays on a team with a 2000 Baltimore Ravens D and a 1998 Denver Bronco Running game.

errand
07-29-2011, 07:55 PM
Having been paying attention to this team lately? At all? Seriously? You're confident we can win with either guy? Wow...

I love the Broncos...not any one player. You practice hero worship, and that means you'd still bitch about winning if the guy you worship isn't playing

errand
07-29-2011, 07:56 PM
Yeah, he just wins if he plays on a team with a 2000 Baltimore Ravens D and a 1998 Denver Bronco Running game.

And you think Tebow can win without a defense or running game?

snowspot66
07-29-2011, 07:56 PM
You and I both. This almost feels worse than when McD was running things. I didn't think that would be possible...

I know they have long term plans and goals. The draft, looking only at the players we picked, I really like. I like the coaching selections. I just worry that they have their eyes so far into the future that they are getting tunnel vision and have written this season off.

snowspot66
07-29-2011, 07:57 PM
And you think Tebow can win without a defense or running game?

I'd like to find out. Can't do that with Tebow on the bench.

Steve Prefontaine
07-29-2011, 07:58 PM
I'm confident we can win with either guy lining up under center

If they draft some other guy then I'd guess that means they have no faith in Tebow either there genius. If they had no faith in Orton then they'd have cut him bonehead...eat the contract and be done with it. Orton has thrown for almost 7,000 yards with 41 TD's vs 21 INT's the past two years on a below average talented team.

When given the chance to win the starter's job, he's won it EVERY time...in Chicago and Denver. He's no Peyton Manning, but he's also no JaMarcus Russell either. If we dump Kyle and Tebow gets hurt, then what?

JC. Can you go to greater extremes? Mighty big window.

errand
07-29-2011, 08:00 PM
I thought you said you were confident we could win with either guy. Which is it?

I guess you're one of those that think you can win games when your defense goes ass up every week....

When the chargers hung almost 100 points on us in two games it didn't matter who our QB was....and you wonder if i've watched the team?

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 08:00 PM
I love the Broncos...not any one player. You practice hero worship, and that means you'd still b**** about winning if the guy you worship isn't playing

Hero worship? Tebow is nearly ten years younger than me. He's not my hero. He does give me more hope than Orton and his empty garbage time stats though. I know what Orton is as do most other Broncos fans. It's only you backward thinking neanderthals amongst us that seem to think the guy is anything other than a stopgap that has worn out his welcome.

zdoor
07-29-2011, 08:01 PM
And you think Tebow can win without a defense or running game?

Almost looked like we had a running game when Tebow was at QB...

TheReverend
07-29-2011, 08:03 PM
I guess you're one of those that think you can win games when your defense goes ass up every week....

When the chargers hung almost 100 points on us in two games it didn't matter who our QB was....and you wonder if i've watched the team?

It mattered:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011010213/2010/REG17/chargers@broncos#tab:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-boxscore

errand
07-29-2011, 08:04 PM
I'd like to find out. Can't do that with Tebow on the bench.

Unless we fix the REAL reason we went 4-12, we can't do it with him on the field either.

Fix the defense and OL woes, and we'll win games if Tebow or Orton is under center

I know it's a crazy thought, but QB play wasn't our biggest problem last season..

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 08:06 PM
Unless we fix the REAL reason we went 4-12, we can't do it with him on the field either.

Fix the defense and OL woes, and we'll win games if Tebow or Orton is under center

I know it's a crazy thought, but QB play wasn't our biggest problem last season..

You really are monumentally obtuse. Or simply a troll. Not sure which honestly. I guess they aren't mutually exclusive.

errand
07-29-2011, 08:07 PM
It mattered:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011010213/2010/REG17/chargers@broncos#tab:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-boxscore

Oh, so we won the game?

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 08:08 PM
Oh, so we won the game?

Troll it is...

TheReverend
07-29-2011, 08:09 PM
Oh, so we won the game?

Time to break out the Boxxy

http://chan.catiewayne.com/b/src/130938510546.jpg

errand
07-29-2011, 08:10 PM
Almost looked like we had a running game when Tebow was at QB...

Yeah, QB scrambling for alot of yards is great highlight reel ****.....still lost the game due to a lack of pressure on opposing QB, and opposing RB's running thru us like a hot knife thru butter

snowspot66
07-29-2011, 08:10 PM
Unless we fix the REAL reason we went 4-12, we can't do it with him on the field either.

Fix the defense and OL woes, and we'll win games if Tebow or Orton is under center

I know it's a crazy thought, but QB play wasn't our biggest problem last season..

Nobody ever said it was.

Dagmar
07-29-2011, 08:10 PM
Oh, so we won the game?

We didn't win the game, but with Tebow as QB and the same D we were more competitive and had a shot at winning in the dying seconds than we were earlier in the year!

FOR THE LOVE OF ****.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010112200/2010/REG11/broncos@chargers

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011010213/2010/REG17/chargers@broncos#tab:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-boxscore

scorpio
07-29-2011, 08:12 PM
Hmmmmm

@MichelleBeisner Michelle Beisner
Just spoke with a very reliable team source in Denver.....There was NEVER an official offer made to the Broncos by the Dolphins for Orton!!

errand
07-29-2011, 08:12 PM
So winning isn't the objective? Losing in style is?

thanks but no thanks...i don't care if our QB throws for 40 yrds and has a rating of 24.8 as long as when the game is over we have at least one more point than the team we played

errand
07-29-2011, 08:13 PM
Nobody ever said it was.

Really? then why are you guys more concerned about whether or not Orton is here instead of debating OL and DL guys

errand
07-29-2011, 08:15 PM
We didn't win the game, but with Tebow as QB and the same D we were more competitive and had a shot at winning in the dying seconds than we were earlier in the year!

FOR THE LOVE OF ****.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010112200/2010/REG11/broncos@chargers

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011010213/2010/REG17/chargers@broncos#tab:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-boxscore

So 5 point losses feel better?

Dagmar
07-29-2011, 08:16 PM
So winning isn't the objective? Losing in style is?

thanks but no thanks...i don't care if our QB throws for 40 yrds and has a rating of 24.8 as long as when the game is over we have at least one more point than the team we played

So two games, one we were competitive, one we were not, the only difference being QB, tells you nothing, even though this discussion is about those two players.

Dagmar
07-29-2011, 08:16 PM
So 5 point losses feel better?

Yes. Getting RAPED feels worse than just getting a pinch in the ass.

And I'm done now.

errand
07-29-2011, 08:17 PM
Troll it is...

You call me a troll when you're bitching about a guy who has done nothing but play his heart out for this team....

oubronco
07-29-2011, 08:18 PM
Huuh huuh huuh you said pinch in the ass

http://mrkpop.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/butthead-butt-head.jpg

errand
07-29-2011, 08:19 PM
Yes. Getting RAPED feels worse than just getting a pinch in the ass.

And I'm done now.

You do realize that the score was like 33-14 before a 97 yard KO and a last ditch drive vs prevent made it closer than it was right? It's not like we led late and lost it on a hail mary or something

zdoor
07-29-2011, 08:19 PM
You call me a troll when you're b****ing about a guy who has done nothing but play his heart out for this team....

And go fetal under pressure and pad stats when it didn't matter

Jay3
07-29-2011, 08:19 PM
http://i.imgur.com/QiyBL.gif

TheReverend
07-29-2011, 08:20 PM
Hmmmmm

Color me ****ing stunned...

Dagmar
07-29-2011, 08:23 PM
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jifM0z0qTXw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 08:25 PM
http://i.imgur.com/QiyBL.gif

That seems kind of random...

By the way Jay you still holding the fort against Neckbeard and Co. over on Broncomania?

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 08:45 PM
http://i.imgur.com/QiyBL.gif

Jay.. why on earth would I need an alias? Does it look like I hold anything back? lol

zdoor
07-29-2011, 08:48 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/07/29/2337536/dont-rule-out-a-deal-for-qb-orton.html

Please say it's true...

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 08:54 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/07/29/2337536/dont-rule-out-a-deal-for-qb-orton.html

Please say it's true...

Not holding my breath at this point. I'm really just trying to steel myself for the misery that is Orton playing out all over again.

IHaveALight
07-29-2011, 08:58 PM
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jifM0z0qTXw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I better be watching this on Sundays, not Orton.

NUB
07-29-2011, 09:02 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/07/29/2337536/dont-rule-out-a-deal-for-qb-orton.html

Please say it's true...

A commentator made one poignant observation. Tony Sparano's job is potentially on the line right now. With that said, would he really go into another meatgrinder season with Henne/Moore as his quarterbacks? I really have a hard time imagining Orton staying in Denver. Both teams gain so much from a trade the idea that the deal doesn't get done is just insane to me.

SouthStndJunkie
07-29-2011, 09:04 PM
The NFL is a QB starved league, if any of the other 31 teams thought Kyle Orton was anything special, they would have tried trading for him.

They watch the tape, they see his ceiling and limitations.

Dude is a training camp king though....I'm sure he will impress the new regime with his ability to look crisp and smooth in shorts with no pass rush.

Meanwhile, Tebow will look a lot less polished. You can't replicate 3rd and 19 with :57 seconds left in the 4th quarter and down by 4 points in training camp.

That is where Tebow impresses....on the field, under duress, in clutch situations.

The new regime better realize this and make the right call and start Tebow....even if Orton looks better in camp.

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 09:07 PM
A commentator made one poignant observation. Tony Sparano's job is potentially on the line right now. With that said, would he really go into another meatgrinder season with Henne/Moore as his quarterbacks? I really have a hard time imagining Orton staying in Denver. Both teams gain so much from a trade the idea that the deal doesn't get done is just insane to me.

Great point, NUB.

Junkie..

That is where Tebow impresses....on the field, under duress, in clutch situations.

The new regime better realize this and make the right call and start Tebow....even if Orton looks better in camp.

How do the coaches justify this though when Tebow looks like the rookie he is?

This is why i almost think it's better Orton starts and tanks like he always does. Then Tebow comes in and even though he is rough around the edges he still looks like a hero. Just like last season.

TailgateNut
07-29-2011, 09:12 PM
And this is why I put no stock in what you or others think of Tebow in practice. He's the best QB on our team. He proved that last year in actual games.


LOL

That One Guy
07-29-2011, 09:19 PM
Great point, NUB.

Junkie..



How do the coaches justify this though when Tebow looks like the rookie he is?

This is why i almost think it's better Orton starts and tanks like he always does. Then Tebow comes in and even though he is rough around the edges he still looks like a hero. Just like last season.

Remember that thread that went for 104 pages of you owning Rev? If you were there for the beginning, it started something like this:

John Fox maintained Thursday afternoon that the Broncos will have a "wide-open competition" at quarterback, but admitted, for the first time, that "deep down, I have an idea" who will be No. 1 when the season starts according to Woody Paige of the Denver Post.

He did say: "I prefer a gamer to a good practice player... I want someone who will execute under pressure in a game."

Fox, who currently is a coach without players because of the on-going lockout, pointed out: "We do have a depth chart."

"I've not seen those three quarterbacks in one practice yet."

Fox knows what he's talking about. He used those words deliberately. He knows the situation.

And I was totally kidding about The Rev being owned...

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 09:19 PM
LOL

Why is that funny? He is right. He showed that last season emphatically.

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 09:23 PM
Remember that thread that went for 104 pages of you owning Rev? If you were there for the beginning, it started something like this:

John Fox maintained Thursday afternoon that the Broncos will have a "wide-open competition" at quarterback, but admitted, for the first time, that "deep down, I have an idea" who will be No. 1 when the season starts according to Woody Paige of the Denver Post.

He did say: "I prefer a gamer to a good practice player... I want someone who will execute under pressure in a game."

Fox, who currently is a coach without players because of the on-going lockout, pointed out: "We do have a depth chart."

"I've not seen those three quarterbacks in one practice yet."

Fox knows what he's talking about. He used those words deliberately. He knows the situation.

And I was totally kidding about The Rev being owned...

Yeah.. I definitely remembered that quote. And I had hoped he meant Tebow.. BUT.. then what is the point of the open competition in non contact scrimmages?

It just seems like the coaches will have to contradict themselves. "it's an open competition.. but the whole training camp was pretty much meaningless".

It also seems silly to say that you need an open competition after watching last season.. AND when they were trying to trade Orton. haha. Nothing makes sense! :D

Broncoman13
07-29-2011, 09:29 PM
QUOTE=TheReverend;3233288]Color me ****ing stunned...[/QUOTE]

Color you stupid..... Orange n blue stooooopid! But what the hell Party, come on out and watch some football with us! Whereupon living these days BTW?

Agamemnon
07-29-2011, 09:33 PM
A commentator made one poignant observation. Tony Sparano's job is potentially on the line right now. With that said, would he really go into another meatgrinder season with Henne/Moore as his quarterbacks? I really have a hard time imagining Orton staying in Denver. Both teams gain so much from a trade the idea that the deal doesn't get done is just insane to me.

Unless, as some are reporting, Orton wanted a contract on par with Kolb's. That would put a kink in things I would imagine. Unfortunately, Orton doesn't understand that just because the Cardinals have lost their ****ing minds, doesn't mean the Dolphins have.

Broncoman13
07-29-2011, 09:34 PM
Great point, NUB.

Junkie..



How do the coaches justify this though when Tebow looks like the rookie he is?

This is why i almost think it's better Orton starts and tanks like he always does. Then Tebow comes in and even though he is rough around the edges he still looks like a hero. Just like last season.
Eff that. Let Tebow spinning the ball from day one. If he gets the job done, problem solved. If he doesn't, you start thinking real strongly about getting to the hunt for a Luck or Barkley. Time to find out what we have in Tebow. I will cheer my ass off for him, but I am a show me guy as well. Show us all!