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Bronco Rob
07-28-2011, 12:36 PM
The Orton trade won't happen until the Broncos get a better trade offer. That could still happen but they will keep him for now.



On the Kyle Orton front, Orton is on the practice field taking No. 1 snaps _ for the Broncos not Dolphins.




https://twitter.com/#!/ClaytonESPN

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 12:37 PM
God damnit.

broncos-rock
07-28-2011, 12:38 PM
Good keep him!

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 12:39 PM
Good keep him!

**** that noise. He walks free and clear after this season.

Quoydogs
07-28-2011, 12:39 PM
Worst news all day

HooptyHoops
07-28-2011, 12:40 PM
Well, if the reports from camp are true....and Orton looks so much better....we can't fault the Broncos for wanting a better offer....I talked to a huge Dolphin fan and man, he really wanted Orton. Really an interesting story right here!

Bronco Rob
07-28-2011, 12:40 PM
Preemptive strike




<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-f_DPrSEOEo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>







:sunshine:

OABB
07-28-2011, 12:40 PM
I am ok with this. 3rd down and redzone conversions are totally overrated.

Stagger Lee
07-28-2011, 12:41 PM
Why God, why?

BroncosMT
07-28-2011, 12:42 PM
I am ok with this. 3rd down and redzone conversions are totally overrated.

^5

oubronco
07-28-2011, 12:42 PM
Well what happens when they draft Luck next year

OABB
07-28-2011, 12:43 PM
28924

Stagger Lee
07-28-2011, 12:43 PM
I am ok with this. 3rd down and redzone conversions are totally overrated.

And late 4th quarter drives to win games.

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 12:44 PM
**** that noise. He walks free and clear after this season.

I'd rather have him for one more year + get the potential 3rd round comp pick for him the following year if we lose him to FA as opposed to the reported 5th rounder for trading him today.

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 12:44 PM
We're asking for a second... don't we already have the Dolphins 2nd this year?

broncos-rock
07-28-2011, 12:44 PM
**** that noise. He walks free and clear after this season.

Why? because were going to get a 4th or 5th round pick for him. I would rather him start in Fox's offense than Tebow.

Steve Sewell
07-28-2011, 12:45 PM
And late 4th quarter drives to win games.

And against above average defenses

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 12:46 PM
Why? because were going to get a 4th or 5th round pick for him. I would rather him start in Fox's offense than Tebow.

I would rather be a ****ty team with Tebow than with Orton. At least that will be fun to watch.

ICON
07-28-2011, 12:46 PM
I can understand wanting to get good value for a starting QB in this league.

TonyR
07-28-2011, 12:46 PM
I'll say it again: the Dolphins need him more than the Broncos need to get rid of him. No reason for the Broncos to be the first to blink.

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 12:48 PM
And late 4th quarter drives to win games.

2009: Cincy, Dallas, New England, San Diego

All fourth quarter or OT come from behind victories with Orton at the helm.

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 12:48 PM
I'd rather have him for one more year + get the potential 3rd round comp pick for him the following year if we lose him to FA as opposed to the reported 5th rounder for trading him today.

To get a third round pick Orton would have to have an EXCELLENT season, lead us to more than four wins, and sign for big bucks.

A lot of ifs in that equation.

Dedhed
07-28-2011, 12:49 PM
2009: Cincy, Dallas, New England, San Diego

All fourth quarter or OT come from behind victories with Orton at the helm.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Rabb
07-28-2011, 12:49 PM
To get a third round pick Orton would have to have an EXCELLENT season, lead us to more than four wins, and sign for big bucks.

A lot of ifs in that equation.

Kevin Kolb disagrees

BroncoInferno
07-28-2011, 12:49 PM
I'd rather have him for one more year + get the potential 3rd round comp pick for him the following year if we lose him to FA as opposed to the reported 5th rounder for trading him today.

In order to get that 3rd, don't we have to lose more free agents than we sign, or something like that?

24champ
07-28-2011, 12:50 PM
Good.

I actually don't want to hand Tebow the starting job, he'll have to earn it by beating out Orton.

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 12:50 PM
To get a third round pick Orton would have to have an EXCELLENT season, lead us to more than four wins, and sign for big bucks.

A lot of ifs in that equation.

Even if he doesn't and only nets us a 4th, 5th, 6th or even 7th, it would still favor us. A 5th doesn't equal more than a starting QB for a year + a pick no matter where it is.

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 12:50 PM
Kevin Kolb disagrees

compensatory 3rd round pick

Stagger Lee
07-28-2011, 12:51 PM
2009: Cincy, Dallas, New England, San Diego

All fourth quarter or OT come from behind victories with Orton at the helm.

I know you're right about those, but since that crazy 6-0 start, we are 6-20, with all but 4 of those starts coming with Orton. I just don't think I can handle another year of no hope. Bad I can deal with, hopeless, though, sucks.

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 12:51 PM
In order to get that 3rd, don't we have to lose more free agents than we sign, or something like that?

That's part of the equation. Since we don't sign big name FAs, that part should be easy.

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 12:51 PM
Even if he doesn't and only nets us a 4th, 5th, 6th or even 7th, it would still favor us. A 5th doesn't equal more than a starting QB for a year + a pick no matter where it is.

I would rather trade him for a 4th round pick we can trade (can't trade compensatory picks) and see what Tebow has or doesn't have.

broncosteven
07-28-2011, 12:52 PM
Well what happens when they draft Luck next year

If Orton starts this year then we will be picking 1st overall this year.

OABB
07-28-2011, 12:52 PM
Good.

I actually don't want to hand Tebow the starting job, he'll have to earn it by beating out Orton.

agreed. Although I though he already did that by leading the teams to more points when he was in.

JJG
07-28-2011, 12:53 PM
I'll say it again: the Dolphins need him more than the Broncos need to get rid of him. No reason for the Broncos to be the first to blink.

This.

TonyR
07-28-2011, 12:55 PM
If Orton starts this year then we will be picking 1st overall this year.

So if Orton beat Tebow for the job isn't that more of a condemnation of Tebow than Orton? Or are you suggesting the coaches won't understand what they're seeing and/or know what they're doing? Either way, I don't think you have to worry about it. Orton will most likely be gone well before the season starts.

Kaylore
07-28-2011, 12:55 PM
Good keep him!

Franchise tag.

Los Broncos
07-28-2011, 12:58 PM
*jumping off roof*

24champ
07-28-2011, 12:59 PM
agreed. Although I though he already did that by leading the teams to more points when he was in.

Orton was playing hurt, I don't think he was a 100 percent at the end of the season, so the staff yanked him for Tebow.

TDmvp
07-28-2011, 01:00 PM
I'm starting to hope Luck sucks this year at Stanford so people will shut up about him.

Lolad
07-28-2011, 01:01 PM
im a little upset that he is taking 1st team reps especially if he is going to be gone before the season starts. Why is he taking good reps away from Tebow?

zdoor
07-28-2011, 01:01 PM
Orton was playing hurt, I don't think he was a 100 percent at the end of the season, so the staff yanked him for Tebow.

He gets hurt because of the cement feet he was blessed with

epicSocialism4tw
07-28-2011, 01:02 PM
Good.

I actually don't want to hand Tebow the starting job, he'll have to earn it by beating out Orton.

Tebow already beat him out.

epicSocialism4tw
07-28-2011, 01:03 PM
im a little upset that he is taking 1st team reps especially if he is going to be gone before the season starts. Why is he taking good reps away from Tebow?

This front office isn't looking too hot right now.

Crushaholic
07-28-2011, 01:05 PM
I know you're right about those, but since that crazy 6-0 start, we are 6-20, with all but 4 of those starts coming with Orton. I just don't think I can handle another year of no hope. Bad I can deal with, hopeless, though, sucks.

Are you saying that has nothing to do with our Swiss cheese _efense?

Stagger Lee
07-28-2011, 01:07 PM
Are you saying that has nothing to do with our Swiss cheese _efense?

No, it absolutely does. I don't hate Orton at all, I just think if we're gonna suck--which by all indications we are-- we might as well see what the kid has got, and at the same time, give the fans some hope.

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 01:08 PM
Tebow already beat him out.

Then why isn't HE #1 on the depth chart?

mkporter
07-28-2011, 01:10 PM
If Orton starts this year then we will be picking 1st overall this year.

That might be true, but it will have very little to do with Orton.

Stagger Lee
07-28-2011, 01:12 PM
McDaniels trades for Orton
McDaniels drafts Tebow
Orton vs. Tebow for starting job dividing both clubhouse and fan base
Hence, McDaniels is still tearing this team apart. Bastard

OABB
07-28-2011, 01:13 PM
Then why isn't HE #1 on the depth chart?

I'm hoping t's trade leverage. Why would they put him on the trade block in the first place if they think he should start. just think about it. Fox wants to win, and therefore will trade concrete feet.

epicSocialism4tw
07-28-2011, 01:13 PM
Then why isn't HE #1 on the depth chart?

Formality.

jhns
07-28-2011, 01:19 PM
Orton was playing hurt, I don't think he was a 100 percent at the end of the season, so the staff yanked him for Tebow.

How does this refure what was said? If you take the averages from Ortons 13 games and Tebows three, Tebow completely outplayed Orton. The team performed much better with Tebow in. It is a complete joke that Orton is taking starter reps now. It sends a good message to the rest of the players. "Who cares if you perform better? This guy makes more!"

BroncoInferno
07-28-2011, 01:25 PM
Good.

I actually don't want to hand Tebow the starting job, he'll have to earn it by beating out Orton.

That sounds great in theory. This is the thing, though. I've said all along that if the starting QB spot were an open competition, Orton probably wins the job. But that's not necessarily because he's the better man for the job. Tebow is one of those guys who doesn't always look pretty, but when the spotlights are on he elevates his game. That innate ability can't be simulated in practice. They gave an example last season after he hit deep pass (I can't remember which game) how he couldn't complete the pass once in practice, but he promised the coach he would complete it during the game, and he did. He just steps it up a notch when the pressure is on. That's why we need to move on from Orton. Anyone who watched the last three games knows (or should know) that Tebow's playmaking ability gives us the best chance to win. Orton probably wins an open competition because he looks great in practice and Tebow's greatest assets aren't as evident in that environment, and that would just be a waste of our time.

cutthemdown
07-28-2011, 01:33 PM
It's not bad news at all. What this really tells me is that Elway won't let another GM take advantage of him and Xanders. He's going to stand firm and not just firesale Orton off for nothing so some other GM can look like a genius. 4th of 5th round pick? Thats not value for even a good NFL bkup qb IMO. Elway smart to play it close to the vest, hold out for a better deal. Wait until some qb gets hurt, hopefully Chad Henne. :) it could happen.

Lolad
07-28-2011, 01:35 PM
It's not bad news at all. What this really tells me is that Elway won't let another GM take advantage of him and Xanders. He's going to stand firm and not just firesale Orton off for nothing so some other GM can look like a genius. 4th of 5th round pick? Thats not value for even a good NFL bkup qb IMO. Elway smart to play it close to the vest, hold out for a better deal. Wait until some qb gets hurt, hopefully Chad Henne. :) it could happen.

I don't mind them holding out for better compensation but him taking reps away from Tebow is whats mind boggling

cutthemdown
07-28-2011, 01:42 PM
I don't mind them holding out for better compensation but him taking reps away from Tebow is whats mind boggling

Thats smart also. Other teams will see that and be thinking wow Elway is stubborn they really are going to keep him. They could still trade Orton in a couple days, but if they just sit him, don't give him reps, that tells other gms they are afraid to get him injured and be stuck with him. I think Elway playing it just right. What is mind boggling is how the fans around here think logical things are mind boggling.

Kaylore
07-28-2011, 01:46 PM
This can only benefit the Broncos.

1. We keep the competition good at the position. Make the QB's work for everything.

2. If we don't trade him, our QB depth is excellent.

3. The Dolphins can suck it. If they want a starting QB, then pay for one. If not, then they can enjoy watching Chad Hyman on Sundays.

TonyR
07-28-2011, 01:50 PM
People are seriously upset that Orton is taking some first team snaps on the first day of practice? Like a few snaps in July is going to make or break Tebow's season?

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 01:53 PM
People are seriously upset that Orton is taking some first team snaps on the first day of practice? Like a few snaps in July is going to make or break Tebow's season?

I think people are upset by the lack of movement. It's been "Orton being traded" and "Mebane & Denver in serious negotiations" for days and nothing has come of it.

EmpireOrange
07-28-2011, 01:56 PM
I think people are upset by the lack of movement. It's been "Orton being traded" and "Mebane & Denver in serious negotiations" for days and nothing has come of it.

Dude it's only Thursday. Free agency hasn't even started yet.

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 02:00 PM
Dude it's only Thursday. Free agency hasn't even started yet.

And there are already a lot of players committed to one team or another. Honestly I blame the reporters. They have brought nothing to the table other than garbage and bull****.

TheReverend
07-28-2011, 02:28 PM
This can only benefit the Broncos.

1. We keep the competition good at the position. Make the QB's work for everything.

2. If we don't trade him, our QB depth is excellent.

3. The Dolphins can suck it. If they want a starting QB, then pay for one. If not, then they can enjoy watching Chad Hyman on Sundays.

He's "won more games" than Orton since he became a starter. Isn't that the argument FOR Kyle? Or has it swapped to stats since he loses now?

Confusing trying to keep up with the justification for Kyle Orton...

TonyR
07-28-2011, 02:34 PM
He's "won more games" than Orton since he became a starter. Isn't that the argument FOR Kyle? Or has it swapped to stats since he loses now?

Confusing trying to keep up with the justification for Kyle Orton...

I guess the question is if Denver had Henne last year, and Miami had Orton, would Denver have been better and Miami worse? Or vice versa?

TheReverend
07-28-2011, 02:39 PM
I guess the question is if Denver had Henne last year, and Miami had Orton, would Denver have been better and Miami worse? Or vice versa?

IMO? It would've made NO difference.

oubronco
07-28-2011, 02:44 PM
I guess the question is if Denver had Henne last year, and Miami had Orton, would Denver have been better and Miami worse? Or vice versa?

Miami's Defense>Denver's Defense it would've been the same

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 02:45 PM
The thought of watching Orton for another season makes my stomach do somersaults...

Shananahan
07-28-2011, 02:45 PM
This can only benefit the Broncos.

1. We keep the competition good at the position. Make the QB's work for everything.

2. If we don't trade him, our QB depth is excellent.

3. The Dolphins can suck it. If they want a starting QB, then pay for one. If not, then they can enjoy watching Chad Hyman on Sundays.
I've said this multiple times around here before, but I'm still not convinced that Denver has any intention of paying Orton his contract salary this year. I don't see this as one-sided for Denver at all for that reason, and it wouldn't surprise me to indeed see them 'firesale' the guy as we draw closer to the August 4th deadline.

robbieopperude
07-28-2011, 03:46 PM
I am going to chime in with a few questions to ponder:
Does Bowlen really want to pay a backup QB 9 million dollars?
Does Elway want to see what he has in Tebow this season and then decide if the kid can play, has the intangibles to lead a program, and has improved his decision making and mechanics?
Do the Broncos really think Orton has a 3rd or 4th round trade value and what value does our new front office give to middle round picks?

My take:
Orton will go to Miami before game 1 of the pre season and the trade that the Cardinals just made for Kolb only increased his value although the trade for McNabb probably lowered it (Really for 2 6th round picks!). I don't really think Vince Young on the market hurts his value either.
Tebow starts this year and shows Elway he has big time guts, plays hurt some of the season due to his running and wins at least one game in the fourth quarter all by himself. Also we only finish the season with 4 or 5 wins and pick in the top 7.

Rigs11
07-28-2011, 04:03 PM
I would rather be a ****ty team with Tebow than with Orton. At least that will be fun to watch.

it will be fun until tebow takes of running and gets hurt.and no im not hoping for this, it's just the way he plays.

MacGruder
07-28-2011, 04:10 PM
it will be fun until tebow takes of running and gets hurt.and no im not hoping for this, it's just the way he plays.

Matt Stafford is a pocket QB who has been hurt his whole career in the pocket.

The pocket is no safer than running.. If you have Tebow's athleticism it is probably safer to run.

Tebow even had his worst injury in college in the pocket with a nasty concussion he got from hitting his head on his own players knee.

bigbucks24
07-28-2011, 04:22 PM
Thats smart also. Other teams will see that and be thinking wow Elway is stubborn they really are going to keep him. They could still trade Orton in a couple days, but if they just sit him, don't give him reps, that tells other gms they are afraid to get him injured and be stuck with him. I think Elway playing it just right. What is mind boggling is how the fans around here think logical things are mind boggling.

So we can figure this out, but other GMs cant?

razorwire77
07-28-2011, 04:28 PM
I've said this multiple times around here before, but I'm still not convinced that Denver has any intention of paying Orton his contract salary this year. I don't see this as one-sided for Denver at all for that reason, and it wouldn't surprise me to indeed see them 'firesale' the guy as we draw closer to the August 4th deadline.

Ding Ding Ding. Lost in the Tebow vs. Orton debate is the finances of the situation. There is no way in bloody hell this team is going to pay 8 million dollars to what will inevitability amount to a backup quarterback. I seriously doubt Orton will restructure out of some sort of loyalty to the team that is trying to **** can him. Elway knows that Orton isn't going to be the long term solution at QB. He's clearly demonstrated some doubts that Tebow can be that guy either. Orton is a known commodity, who on a Ravens or Steelers type team would be an excellent game managing QB, but on a 4-12 team, his deficiencies are clear. We are in a multi year rebuilding project, Tebow is an unknown commodity and will start for that reason. Fox, Elway and Co. want to see what they have. If he sucks, they will draft a franchise QB (Luck, Jones, Barkley, Lindley etc.)

broncosteven
07-28-2011, 04:34 PM
IMO? It would've made NO difference.

Orton has never made a team better.

bombay
07-28-2011, 04:35 PM
He's the best NFL QB on the roster. There is no reason to give him away.

The more rabid of the Tebow supporters don't really want a fair competition. They want Tebow annointed.

broncosteven
07-28-2011, 04:44 PM
He's the best NFL QB on the roster. There is no reason to give him away.

The more rabid of the Tebow supporters don't really want a fair competition. They want Tebow annointed.

I am not a Tebow fan but Orton is a 2011 version of Steve DeBerg and maybe Elway is reminding Tebow that not even he had a sure thing starting gig in his 1st full year. Maybe John is pulling a Reeves and making Tebow prove it to him.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-28-2011, 04:44 PM
Hahaha...that's cute!

Elway is a joke.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-28-2011, 04:45 PM
This is almost exactly like the Trent Green trade. Carl acted like an idiot and paraded Green in front of everyone in practice when everyone knew he was going to be traded.

broncosteven
07-28-2011, 04:49 PM
This is almost exactly like the Trent Green trade. Carl acted like an idiot and paraded Green in front of everyone in practice when everyone knew he was going to be traded.

Are you here so much because no one will talk to you on your KFC boards?

razorwire77
07-28-2011, 04:50 PM
I am not a Tebow fan but Orton is a 2011 version of Steve DeBerg and maybe Elway is reminding Tebow that not even he had a sure thing starting gig in his 1st full year. Maybe John is pulling a Reeves and making Tebow prove it to him.

Good analogy. I'm not entirely sold on Tebow either, but I know that Orton isn't a franchise QB. Tebow still has the potential to be. The 2011-2012 season is the perfect one to find out if he is. If he turns out not to be, then we draft a QB. Even if Tebow completely fails, how many more games would we win this season based solely on starting Orton?

Hamrob
07-28-2011, 04:59 PM
Orton is slated to earn $9m. Is he worth that?
Tebow is an unknown. You have to figure out if he was worth the 1st round investment. You can only do that by playing him on Sundays.
Orton = Delhomme Wow!

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 05:00 PM
Good analogy. I'm not entirely sold on Tebow either, but I know that Orton isn't a franchise QB. Tebow still has the potential to be. The 2011-2012 season is the perfect one to find out if he is. If he turns out not to be, then we draft a QB. Even if Tebow completely fails, how many more games would we win this season based solely on starting Orton?

3-10. Need I say more?

MacGruder
07-28-2011, 05:05 PM
Good analogy. I'm not entirely sold on Tebow either, but I know that Orton isn't a franchise QB. Tebow still has the potential to be. The 2011-2012 season is the perfect one to find out if he is. If he turns out not to be, then we draft a QB. Even if Tebow completely fails, how many more games would we win this season based solely on starting Orton?

Why don't you know if Tebow will be a good NFL QB? How much more do you need to see?

People said Tebow had no chance playing in the NFL before he even played there. Now he has played there and outperformed all other rookie QBs and even the starter over him all last year and people still doubt if he is an NFL QB? It makes no sense...

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 05:10 PM
Why don't you know if Tebow will be a good NFL QB? How much more do you need to see?

People said Tebow had no chance playing in the NFL before he even played there. Now he has played there and outperformed all other rookie QBs and even the starter over him all last year and people still doubt if he is an NFL QB? It makes no sense...

Meanwhile Arizona is paying a king's ransom to a guy who has played in 19 games total, started only 7, and has posted a QB rating nearly 10 points lower than Tebow's. It's a crazy world we live in isn't it?

serious hops
07-28-2011, 05:12 PM
Good analogy. I'm not entirely sold on Tebow either, but I know that Orton isn't a franchise QB. Tebow still has the potential to be. The 2011-2012 season is the perfect one to find out if he is. If he turns out not to be, then we draft a QB. Even if Tebow completely fails, how many more games would we win this season based solely on starting Orton?

That's pretty much where I'm at as well. Yea, I do think Orton probably gives us a better chance to win on any given day right now, simply because he has a significantly greater grasp of the pro game, and comfort level with the speed that everything happens. He knows his pre-snap reads, etc etc-- all the stuff that's not going to come naturally to Tim yet.

Still, we've all seen how Orton struggles to make plays whenever the pressure is on-- his limitations are pretty obvious. You could win a good amount of games in the regular season with his conservative play, IF you had a great defense. We're laughably far from that, and won't have much realistic hope of any drastic improvement if we don't get some real tackles in here pretty soon-- especially with a rookie coordinator, and multiple rookies likely playing pretty big roles at some point. Under those circumstances, it just doesn't make sense to pay Orton nine million dollars for the difference between 4-5 wins and 6-7 or so. Particularly when his contract's up at the end of the year.

If Tebow isn't the guy, we're better off finding out now so that we can address it in next year's potentially QB-heavy draft. It's not tanking a season to get Luck or any crap like that-- it's just proper rebuilding, which can be ugly in the short term. But it beats the hell out of constantly treading water with mediocre-at-best older vets, sinking an inch at a time. We've had enough of that shiat under the last two regimes. Time to do it right from the start. Focus our FA dollars on getting one or two legitimate, quality starters (Mebane!) with years left on the odometer, and take our lumps playing young guys elsewhere. Forget an expernsive FA back, get a few UDFAs to compete with Ball and play whoever wins. And please, just move Orton, get whatever draft pick compensation we can (unless a solid player like Starks is actually offered, which seems doubtful), and use the cap space to sign a damn lineman who can anchor down and hold a gap. ****'s sake.

I seriously hope they can get the Orton situation resolved here in the next day or two-- the longer it drags on, the lower our odds for a happy resolution, IMO.

RhymesayersDU
07-28-2011, 05:12 PM
He's the best NFL QB on the roster. There is no reason to give him away.

The more rabid of the Tebow supporters don't really want a fair competition. They want Tebow annointed.

Sure, some of the Tebow supporters (See Llama, Angry) do have an agenda with Tebow that needs to be pushed.

But most of us just realize that we're not making the playoffs either way, and as such we might as well give Tebow the reigns. At least, that's my take. I have my doubts about the guy, but Orton won't lead us anywhere.

Blueflame
07-28-2011, 05:14 PM
He's the best NFL QB on the roster. There is no reason to give him away.

The more rabid of the Tebow supporters don't really want a fair competition. They want Tebow annointed.

Let's face it; Orton isn't a top-tier (elite) NFL starting QB. If Tebow's going to become a top-tier NFL starting QB then the first step he needs to take is to clearly and unquestionably win the starting job and there's no reason to expect that he can't or won't win that training camp battle with a guy of Orton's caliber.

I get it; he was drafted #12 overall and is a fan favorite; his presence under center will put butts in the stadium seats. However... he needs to "elevate his game" in practice (as has been said he does during the game) to show that he has earned the starting position. This will also solidify his teammates around him and avoid any locker room dissension that could result if it's even slightly perceived that the previous year's starter didn't get a fair shot at starting.

That said it's the first day of training camp and as we've seen every single season, lots of things can change from Day One of training camp to Opening Day of the season.

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 05:18 PM
Orton has never made a team better.

In 2008, with the Bears, Orton averaged 31 passing attempts per game and the Bears averaged 27.1 rushing attempts per game. Kyle was 9-6 as a starter in a year Chicago ranked #24 in rushing in the NFL and the defense ranked #21.

http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18219887&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 05:24 PM
Let's face it; Orton isn't a top-tier (elite) NFL starting QB. If Tebow's going to become a top-tier NFL starting QB then the first step he needs to take is to clearly and unquestionably win the starting job and there's no reason to expect that he can't or won't win that training camp battle with a guy of Orton's caliber.

I get it; he was drafted #12 overall and is a fan favorite; his presence under center will put butts in the stadium seats. However... he needs to "elevate his game" in practice (as has been said he does during the game) to show that he has earned the starting position. This will also solidify his teammates around him and avoid any locker room dissension that could result if it's even slightly perceived that the previous year's starter didn't get a fair shot at starting.

That said it's the first day of training camp and as we've seen every single season, lots of things can change from Day One of training camp to Opening Day of the season.

So you think Tebow should be expected to outdo Orton in non-contact pocket passing drills when that's clearly Orton's greatest strength and he's got six years of experience on him? Should Orton be expected to out scramble and avoid pass rushers better than Tebow?

We need to find out what we have with Tebow, not waste another season with a mediocre QB that will prove to be little more than a dog fart in our franchise's history.

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 05:25 PM
In 2008, with the Bears, Orton averaged 31 passing attempts per game and the Bears averaged 27.1 rushing attempts per game. Kyle was 9-6 as a starter in a year Chicago ranked #24 in rushing in the NFL and the defense ranked #21.

http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18219887&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40

What'd their special teams rank I wonder...

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 05:26 PM
This can only benefit the Broncos.

1. We keep the competition good at the position. Make the QB's work for everything.

2. If we don't trade him, our QB depth is excellent.

3. The Dolphins can suck it. If they want a starting QB, then pay for one. If not, then they can enjoy watching Chad Hyman on Sundays.

This.

Boost his value and get Starks AND a 2nd!

DrFate
07-28-2011, 05:29 PM
I get it; he was drafted #12 overall and is a fan favorite;

Who are we talking about again?

FADERPROOF
07-28-2011, 05:30 PM
Isnt it pretty awesome how other teams are making trades and signing free agents, and Denver just is sitting back and watching it all happen?

I mean, We did go 4-12 last season, why would we need to sign or trade for anybody?

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 05:32 PM
What'd their special teams rank I wonder...

Hester had zero returns for TDs that year and only averaged 6 yds per punt return. Manning had one return for a TD that year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devin_Hester#2008

mwill07
07-28-2011, 05:32 PM
Isnt it pretty awesome how other teams are making trades and signing free agents, and Denver just is sitting back and watching it all happen?

I mean, We did go 4-12 last season, why would we need to sign or trade for anybody?

Jabar Gaffney says bye.

FADERPROOF
07-28-2011, 05:34 PM
Jabar Gaffney says bye.

Jabar Gaffney for Jeremy Jarmon...might as well buy my playoff tickets now.

Garcia Bronco
07-28-2011, 05:44 PM
Isnt it pretty awesome how other teams are making trades and signing free agents, and Denver just is sitting back and watching it all happen?

I mean, We did go 4-12 last season, why would we need to sign or trade for anybody?

Maybe the FO understands that spending on marginally better talents that have a low percentage of being better than what we have isn't a good investment.

SoCalBronco
07-28-2011, 06:02 PM
I don't care what Orton does in practice...the idea that he's going to somehow be the man again in 2011 is a complete non-starter from a realistic perspective. Virtually no one wants to see Kyle Orton start anymore. We know his strengths and we know his weaknesses and more importantly, we know his ceiling. He's not dynamic, he doesn't make stuff happen and it's just not an exciting brand of football. It can be efficient at times, but this is a team that will have a rough going this year, so we need something to look forward to. Nobody gets a hard on over his game. We just don't. I'm not saying there aren't positive aspets to it, but at least Tebow made things fun again. Even the old man knows that people aren't going to watch this **** if its boring in addition to being bad.

Tebow's also a young player who is raw, so yeah he's going to have days where he doesn't look sharp, especially when he's been robbed of an entire offseason of development with the staff. It's often said the jump from Year 1 to Year 2 is the biggest for a young player...but that assumes the guy had all the stuff to soak in and work on in the interim. He was deprived that, so its going to be rough for awhile. We knew that. I'm still sticking with him. It's not a big deal. It'll be worth it in the end. No more Orton, I don't care if he's 30 for 30 in practice.

FADERPROOF
07-28-2011, 06:04 PM
Maybe the FO understands that spending on marginally better talents that have a low percentage of being better than what we have isn't a good investment.

So a team that goes 4-12 thinks that there's only "marginally" better talent to get?

Garcia Bronco
07-28-2011, 06:12 PM
So a team that goes 4-12 thinks that there's only "marginally" better talent to get?

Yeah. Let's spend 50 million to go 5-11 or 6-10

cutthemdown
07-28-2011, 06:14 PM
I don't care what Orton does in practice...the idea that he's going to somehow be the man again in 2011 is a complete non-starter from a realistic perspective. Virtually no one wants to see Kyle Orton start anymore. We know his strengths and we know his weaknesses and more importantly, we know his ceiling. He's not dynamic, he doesn't make stuff happen and it's just not an exciting brand of football. It can be efficient at times, but this is a team that will have a rough going this year, so we need something to look forward to. Nobody gets a hard on over his game. We just don't. I'm not saying there aren't positive aspets to it, but at least Tebow made things fun again. Even the old man knows that people aren't going to watch this **** if its boring in addition to being bad.

Tebow's also a young player who is raw, so yeah he's going to have days where he doesn't look sharp, especially when he's been robbed of an entire offseason of development with the staff. It's often said the jump from Year 1 to Year 2 is the biggest for a young player...but that assumes the guy had all the stuff to soak in and work on in the interim. He was deprived that, so its going to be rough for awhile. We knew that. I'm still sticking with him. It's not a big deal. It'll be worth it in the end. No more Orton, I don't care if he's 30 for 30 in practice.

The zip on his passes starts to wane at about the 250 attempt mark IMO. Orton would be great in a run heavy, throw the ball 15-20 times a game type team. Tebow won't look better then Orton until its a real game. I have no doubt Orton throws the ball around better in a non contact practice. Tebow wants to get dirty.

FADERPROOF
07-28-2011, 06:17 PM
Yeah. Let's spend 50 million to go 5-11 or 6-10

Its fun arguing with 'tards

SoCalBronco
07-28-2011, 06:17 PM
Isnt it pretty awesome how other teams are making trades and signing free agents, and Denver just is sitting back and watching it all happen?

I mean, We did go 4-12 last season, why would we need to sign or trade for anybody?

You can thank the old man for that. He's too busy swimmin in his money like Scrooge McDuck. I swear....if we keep sitting around holding our dicks while all the prime DT's go off the market, I'm going to scream.

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Rzba7V8uB04" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TonyR
07-28-2011, 06:18 PM
Isnt it pretty awesome how other teams are making trades and signing free agents, and Denver just is sitting back and watching it all happen?

Here are the teams that, like the Broncos, have acquired 1 or fewer players thus far:
Falcons 0
Ravens 0
Browns 0
Cowboys 0
Lions 1
Packers 0
Texans 0
Colts 1
Chiefs 1
Giants 1
Jets 0
Raiders 0
Steelers 0
Chargers 1
49ers 0
Rams 1
Bucs 1
Titans 1

wolf754life
07-28-2011, 06:19 PM
You can thank the old man for that. He's too busy swimmin in his money like Scrooge McDuck. I swear....if we keep sitting around holding our ***** while all the prime DT's go off the market, I'm going to scream.

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Rzba7V8uB04" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

patience my man....patience.....

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 06:28 PM
Here are the teams that, like the Broncos, have acquired 1 or fewer players thus far:
Falcons 0
Ravens 0
Browns 0
Cowboys 0
Lions 1
Packers 0
Texans 0
Colts 1
Chiefs 1
Giants 1
Jets 0
Raiders 0
Steelers 0
Chargers 1
49ers 0
Rams 1
Bucs 1
Titans 1

It just feels like we're behind because Washington is implementing a plan to field an all WR team.

orangenblue2
07-28-2011, 06:30 PM
I don't care what Orton does in practice...the idea that he's going to somehow be the man again in 2011 is a complete non-starter from a realistic perspective. Virtually no one wants to see Kyle Orton start anymore. We know his strengths and we know his weaknesses and more importantly, we know his ceiling. He's not dynamic, he doesn't make stuff happen and it's just not an exciting brand of football. It can be efficient at times, but this is a team that will have a rough going this year, so we need something to look forward to. Nobody gets a hard on over his game. We just don't. I'm not saying there aren't positive aspets to it, but at least Tebow made things fun again. Even the old man knows that people aren't going to watch this **** if its boring in addition to being bad.

Tebow's also a young player who is raw, so yeah he's going to have days where he doesn't look sharp, especially when he's been robbed of an entire offseason of development with the staff. It's often said the jump from Year 1 to Year 2 is the biggest for a young player...but that assumes the guy had all the stuff to soak in and work on in the interim. He was deprived that, so its going to be rough for awhile. We knew that. I'm still sticking with him. It's not a big deal. It'll be worth it in the end. No more Orton, I don't care if he's 30 for 30 in practice.

Bravisimo! :strong: I wholeheartedly concur...

tsiguy96
07-28-2011, 06:31 PM
It just feels like we're behind because Washington is implementing a plan to field an all WR team.

brandon stokely backed out of his verbal contract because shanny signed so many WRs. hes still a FA now.

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 06:33 PM
Isnt it pretty awesome how other teams are making trades and signing free agents, and Denver just is sitting back and watching it all happen?

I mean, We did go 4-12 last season, why would we need to sign or trade for anybody?

Free agency begins tomorrow: http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/07/25/tentative-plan-for-dove-valley-doors-to-open-tuesday/7966/

Nobody is signing free agents.

Blueflame
07-28-2011, 06:33 PM
So you think Tebow should be expected to outdo Orton in non-contact pocket passing drills when that's clearly Orton's greatest strength and he's got six years of experience on him? Should Orton be expected to out scramble and avoid pass rushers better than Tebow?

We need to find out what we have with Tebow, not waste another season with a mediocre QB that will prove to be little more than a dog fart in our franchise's history.

Yes I think Tebow should be good enough to outperform a limited QB like Orton in all aspects of the game... and there's no better time than right now in training camp for him to take charge and flat out silence any who might try to question his claim to the position.

broncosteven
07-28-2011, 06:35 PM
In 2008, with the Bears, Orton averaged 31 passing attempts per game and the Bears averaged 27.1 rushing attempts per game. Kyle was 9-6 as a starter in a year Chicago ranked #24 in rushing in the NFL and the defense ranked #21.

http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18219887&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40

And they missed the playoffs, Orton's next playoff game will be his 1st. Orton was no better than Eric Kramer, neither could move around in the pocket and neither was good on 3rd down.

BTW at the start of 2009 both Orton and REXMAN were gone and that despite having a 1200+ yard rookie RB in 2008 so nope, I don't think Orton made that team better.

broncosteven
07-28-2011, 06:38 PM
I don't care what Orton does in practice...the idea that he's going to somehow be the man again in 2011 is a complete non-starter from a realistic perspective. Virtually no one wants to see Kyle Orton start anymore. We know his strengths and we know his weaknesses and more importantly, we know his ceiling. He's not dynamic, he doesn't make stuff happen and it's just not an exciting brand of football. It can be efficient at times, but this is a team that will have a rough going this year, so we need something to look forward to. Nobody gets a hard on over his game. We just don't. I'm not saying there aren't positive aspets to it, but at least Tebow made things fun again. Even the old man knows that people aren't going to watch this **** if its boring in addition to being bad.

Tebow's also a young player who is raw, so yeah he's going to have days where he doesn't look sharp, especially when he's been robbed of an entire offseason of development with the staff. It's often said the jump from Year 1 to Year 2 is the biggest for a young player...but that assumes the guy had all the stuff to soak in and work on in the interim. He was deprived that, so its going to be rough for awhile. We knew that. I'm still sticking with him. It's not a big deal. It'll be worth it in the end. No more Orton, I don't care if he's 30 for 30 in practice.

YEP,

He may look like Tom Brady during practice and when there is no rush but I want to see him recognize the rush, feel the pressure, move around to avoid the rush while keeping his eyes down field and make the right choice to convert the 3rd down when the heat is on.

Broncobiv
07-28-2011, 06:42 PM
2011 Training Camp – Day 2: P.M. Blog (http://blog.denverbroncos.com/denverbroncos/2011-training-camp-day-2-p-m-blog/)

PLAYMAKERS
There aren’t a ton of plays to be made during a walkthrough, but Miller managed to make a name for himself early on. The rookie snagged an interception from Kyle Orton, and laughed as he danced back to the sideline after the play.

Wasn't sure which thread this would go better in, so I put it in both.

broncosteven
07-28-2011, 06:44 PM
2011 Training Camp – Day 2: P.M. Blog (http://blog.denverbroncos.com/denverbroncos/2011-training-camp-day-2-p-m-blog/)



Wasn't sure which thread this would go better in, so I put it in both.

Deja Vu!

WolfpackGuy
07-28-2011, 06:51 PM
Looks like Ayers read Fields' comments.

Back to #56.

MacGruder
07-28-2011, 06:57 PM
Did Mark Schlereth botch the Orton deal?

I think it was the same morning when all the Orton trade talk started when Schlereth was on Mike and Mike in the morning on ESPN2. Mike and Mike were raving about Orton and criticizing the Broncos for trading Orton to play Tebow. Schelreth came on a later segment and got in a slightly heated debate with Golic and laid it right out there that Orton was so terrible on 3rd down and in the red zone eve though he seemd to put up good numbers.

Coincidentally the Arizona media comes out today claiming this was the very reason the Cardinals hit the breaks on an Orton deal. Miami suddenly seemed to hit the breaks all of a sudden too.

Now, you could say that everyone in the NFL knew what Orton was.. but then why was there so much supposed interest in Orton in the first place if everyone knew this already? Why would anyone want Orton as their starter considering this?

Blueflame
07-28-2011, 07:00 PM
Who are we talking about again?

My bad (stupid head cold). Of course I meant "our pick 1-B (#25 overall)". The point still stands that the fans expect a player taken in the first round to be starting and the sooner the better.

cmhargrove
07-28-2011, 07:10 PM
Did Mark Schlereth botch the Orton deal?

I think it was the same morning when all the Orton trade talk started when Schlereth was on Mike and Mike in the morning on ESPN2. Mike and Mike were raving about Orton and criticizing the Broncos for trading Orton to play Tebow. Schelreth came on a later segment and got in a slightly heated debate with Golic and laid it right out there that Orton was so terrible on 3rd down and in the red zone eve though he seemd to put up good numbers.

Coincidentally the Arizona media comes out today claiming this was the very reason the Cardinals hit the breaks on an Orton deal. Miami suddenly seemed to hit the breaks all of a sudden too.

Now, you could say that everyone in the NFL knew what Orton was.. but then why was there so much supposed interest in Orton in the first place if everyone knew this already? Why would anyone want Orton as their starter considering this?

So we now think that NFL teams are following the advice of Mark Schlereth? Really?

I think we could find as many commentators for and against Orton, but I doubt NFL teams make personnel moves based on what retired players say on TV.

MacGruder
07-28-2011, 07:14 PM
So we now think that NFL teams are following the advice of Mark Schlereth? Really?

I think we could find as many commentators for and against Orton, but I doubt NFL teams make personnel moves based on what retired players say on TV.

Schlereth watched the Broncos up close and personal.. most others didn't. This is why Golic was so high on Orton... most people just look at Orton's numbers not realizing those numbers came from McD and the system.

oubronco
07-28-2011, 07:16 PM
It's a conspiracy

MacGruder
07-28-2011, 07:20 PM
It's a conspiracy

It's called thinking.. you should try it...

Abqbronco
07-28-2011, 07:31 PM
patience my man....patience.....

This dude is the voice of reason? Weird. The universe is going to implode

jhns
07-28-2011, 07:37 PM
Did Mark Schlereth botch the Orton deal?

I think it was the same morning when all the Orton trade talk started when Schlereth was on Mike and Mike in the morning on ESPN2. Mike and Mike were raving about Orton and criticizing the Broncos for trading Orton to play Tebow. Schelreth came on a later segment and got in a slightly heated debate with Golic and laid it right out there that Orton was so terrible on 3rd down and in the red zone eve though he seemd to put up good numbers.

Coincidentally the Arizona media comes out today claiming this was the very reason the Cardinals hit the breaks on an Orton deal. Miami suddenly seemed to hit the breaks all of a sudden too.

Now, you could say that everyone in the NFL knew what Orton was.. but then why was there so much supposed interest in Orton in the first place if everyone knew this already? Why would anyone want Orton as their starter considering this?

No one has been interested in giving anything up for Orton. That is why he isn't gone...

TheReverend
07-28-2011, 07:47 PM
This dude is the voice of reason? Weird. The universe is going to implode

Is that reason though?

It wasn't a wealth of talent that landed us selecting #2 overall. Now I'll certainly agree that 1 big signing won't turn that around... but if we're "rebuilding"... well we have to start laying some ****ing bricks eventually.

The empty foundation is pretty nice though.

KevinJames
07-28-2011, 08:00 PM
Looks like Ayers read Fields' comments.

Back to #56.

nah reebok made him switch back

Rigs11
07-28-2011, 08:05 PM
Why doesn't tebow outperform orton in camp then?Why not cement his starting role?

Finger Roll
07-28-2011, 08:07 PM
because we already know Orton sucks in games that matter.

BroncosSR
07-28-2011, 08:23 PM
2009: Cincy, Dallas, New England, San Diego

All fourth quarter or OT come from behind victories with Orton at the helm.

Using the Cincy game to make this point looks really bad.

Unless Orton intentionally under threw Marshall, knowing the Cincy safety would knock it up into the air into the arms of a correctly-positioned Stokely who would run it 80 some yards for a TD.

Yep, just as Orton drew it up.

TheReverend
07-28-2011, 08:29 PM
Using the Cincy game to make this point looks really bad.

Unless Orton intentionally under threw Marshall, knowing the Cincy safety would knock it up into the air into the arms of a correctly-positioned Stokely who would run it 80 some yards for a TD.

Yep, just as Orton drew it up.

The Dallas game was an INSANE Marshall catch and run breaking a half dozen tackles too.

NE was fully legit though. Orton played lights the eff out there.

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 08:29 PM
Using the Cincy game to make this point looks really bad.

Unless Orton intentionally under threw Marshall, knowing the Cincy safety would knock it up into the air into the arms of a correctly-positioned Stokely who would run it 80 some yards for a TD.

Yep, just as Orton drew it up.

It would be brilliant if he did draw it up that way, though, wouldn't it?

bigbucks24
07-28-2011, 08:30 PM
If Orton sucks in games and has cement feet and is awful on 3rd ddown and the red zone and can't scramble and blah, blah, blah, why do so many people think they shuold be getting a king's randsom for him? It's either one way or the other. Either he sucks and has never made any team better and is worth next to nothing in trade value or he is a good QB that could help a team and has value. How can so many people complain that he is only a practice player and once the pressure comes, he folds like a lawn chair and still think the Bronco's should be holding him until they get a strong offer for a high draft choice?

BroncosSR
07-28-2011, 08:37 PM
It would be brilliant if he did draw it up that way, though, wouldn't it?

Undoubtedly.

BroncosSR
07-28-2011, 08:44 PM
If Orton sucks in games and has cement feet and is awful on 3rd ddown and the red zone and can't scramble and blah, blah, blah, why do so many people think they shuold be getting a king's randsom for him? It's either one way or the other. Either he sucks and has never made any team better and is worth next to nothing in trade value or he is a good QB that could help a team and has value. How can so many people complain that he is only a practice player and once the pressure comes, he folds like a lawn chair and still think the Bronco's should be holding him until they get a strong offer for a high draft choice?

While you do make a good point (of which I agree with), you could also say the same about Kolb. Why did the Eagles want a King's ransom for a guy who has played in 7 games his entire career? Of which AZ subsequently handed him the keys to the organization. In Kolb's entire career, he has 194 completions. That works out to about 325k per completion that AZ just gave him. Personally, I'd take a 3rd and run with it for Orton. But getting only a 4th for his numbers is downright insanity.

In these instances, the market is dictating the pay.

bigbucks24
07-28-2011, 10:19 PM
While you do make a good point (of which I agree with), you could also say the same about Kolb. Why did the Eagles want a King's ransom for a guy who has played in 7 games his entire career? Of which AZ subsequently handed him the keys to the organization. In Kolb's entire career, he has 194 completions. That works out to about 325k per completion that AZ just gave him. Personally, I'd take a 3rd and run with it for Orton. But getting only a 4th for his numbers is downright insanity.

In these instances, the market is dictating the pay.

In this instance, I don't think Kolb is a god analogy. My problem is that on one hand, most people talk about how awful Orton is. And on the other hand, the same people talk about how they don't want to give him away and if the Phins want a starting QB, then they can damn well pony up good value for him. If he sucks, why do people think he is valuable? It's the fact that his value or level of suckitude goes up and down depending on what argument people are trying to make.

Shananahan
07-28-2011, 10:38 PM
I think that if you read around a bit you'll find that the majority of people are only insistent on Orton bringing so much in trade because of his accomplishments compared to Kolb's. I don't think you'll see any posts where anybody actually says that he's a better QB outright.

In addition to that, there are a number of people who just want him traded regardless of how good he is or isn't or what he is traded for. I personally am beyond caring about whether he's better than Tebow or whether he's worth more than they get for him, I just want him gone and the more value he brings back in doing so, the better.

blake65
07-28-2011, 11:03 PM
The Orton trade won't happen until the Broncos get a better trade offer. That could still happen but they will keep him for now.



On the Kyle Orton front, Orton is on the practice field taking No. 1 snaps _ for the Broncos not Dolphins.




https://twitter.com/#!/ClaytonESPN

who cares what clayton says! He just tweeted Alan Branch is a DE. He weighs 338 pounds!!!

;D

HAT
07-28-2011, 11:25 PM
I think that if you read around a bit you'll find that the majority of people are only insistent on Orton bringing so much in trade because of his accomplishments compared to Kolb's. I don't think you'll see any posts where anybody actually says that he's a better QB outright.



Orton > Kolb

NUB
07-28-2011, 11:39 PM
If Orton sucks in games and has cement feet and is awful on 3rd ddown and the red zone and can't scramble and blah, blah, blah, why do so many people think they shuold be getting a king's randsom for him? It's either one way or the other. Either he sucks and has never made any team better and is worth next to nothing in trade value or he is a good QB that could help a team and has value. How can so many people complain that he is only a practice player and once the pressure comes, he folds like a lawn chair and still think the Bronco's should be holding him until they get a strong offer for a high draft choice?

It's actually very simple. Orton works great on a team that is good. Half his stats show that he is not clutch and does not work well under pressure. The other half shows that he is a very competent passer when he's just allowed to play the game. Not lose it, not win it. Rarely did Orton outright lose us any games. It did happen, but it wasn't often. At the same time, there were just as few games in which Orton was the pivotal factor (like Tennessee this year, or New England last). He's the definition of pedestrian. Some teams can do a lot with a QB like Orton if they don't make him shoulder everything.

maher_tyler
07-28-2011, 11:49 PM
I really don't care what we get, i don't want to see him in our practices if he's not going to be on the team. It's already a distraction, get him out of here so the real starter can focus!!

ZONA
07-29-2011, 01:06 AM
Miami can suck it. If this deal fails to go through, and Miami has a horrible passing game this year, it shall bring a smile to my face. They want Orton but can't give up a 2nd or 3rd for him? They're saying Orton isn't better or has more value to a team then possibly a 3rd round rookie QB? Their GM is an idiot. Sounds like both teams want the same thing, for Orton to go to Miami, so both teams should agree to a FAIR trade, which I think is no less then a 3rd and no more then a 2nd. Miami wants to steal him and Elway and crew just won't let that happen. Kudos to them for holding firm. You don't get better by trades where you get less value then you give up. I know we want Tebow in there but it looks like he might have to earn it. If Orton walks next year then so be it. We'll get something back as compensation and Miami can learn their lesson.

Shananahan
07-29-2011, 01:09 AM
They want Orton but can't give up a 2nd or 3rd for him? They're saying Orton isn't better or has more value to a team then possibly a 3rd round rookie QB?
Well, actually they'd be saying a 2nd or a 3rd-round pick has more value to their team than Orton. How much better he is than what they have is irrelevant.

ZONA
07-29-2011, 01:21 AM
Well, actually they'd be saying a 2nd or a 3rd-round pick has more value to their team than Orton. How much better he is than what they have is irrelevant.

Not really. If they don't go for Orton and have to use a high pick on a QB next year, they're more then likely not going to get a player better then Orton, definitely not better that 1st or 2nd year. And in the NFL, time is value. You figure you lose a year or 2 getting that 2nd or 3rd round QB some NFL experience, so in the end, it's cost them more then a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Miami has a pretty good defense. They have BM, just got Bush and a decent line. With Orton, they could compete and have a lagit chance to get a playoff spot. With Henne, forget about it.


No matter - Henne will be injured by week 3 and Miami will come crawling back to us on their hands and knees.

MacGruder
07-29-2011, 02:19 AM
If Orton sucks in games and has cement feet and is awful on 3rd ddown and the red zone and can't scramble and blah, blah, blah, why do so many people think they shuold be getting a king's randsom for him? It's either one way or the other. Either he sucks and has never made any team better and is worth next to nothing in trade value or he is a good QB that could help a team and has value. How can so many people complain that he is only a practice player and once the pressure comes, he folds like a lawn chair and still think the Bronco's should be holding him until they get a strong offer for a high draft choice?

This is what I think Elway was trying to sell all summer.. then Schlereth opened his big mouth and told the truth because he has actually watched Ortton play unlike everyone else in the NFL apparently. lol Now Elway doesn't realize everyone has figured out why Orton sucks so much... except Broncos fans who are silly enough to buy into Klis' hype.

FADERPROOF
07-29-2011, 02:48 AM
You can thank the old man for that. He's too busy swimmin in his money like Scrooge McDuck. I swear....if we keep sitting around holding our ***** while all the prime DT's go off the market, I'm going to scream.

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Im with you, glad there's someone else on this board that wants to see this team do better this year.

FADERPROOF
07-29-2011, 02:51 AM
Free agency begins tomorrow: http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/07/25/tentative-plan-for-dove-valley-doors-to-open-tuesday/7966/

Nobody is signing free agents.

Teams can negotiate and reach an agreement with FA's so they can officially sign right away once free agency opens.

Don't be a technical nitpicking asswipe, you knew what I meant.