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IHaveALight
07-25-2011, 01:14 PM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Bowlen-on-New-CBA/d47e2054-9538-4c4a-896d-8b6da27f2b15


ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- On Monday, President and CEO Pat Bowlen released the following statement on the new collective bargaining agreement.

“I am very pleased with the commitment shown by the National Football League, its owners and the players to reach a new Collective Bargaining Agreement that is fair for everyone. As co-Chair of the NFL’s Management Council Executive Committee, I applaud the hard work of my fellow committee members throughout every step of this process.

“On behalf of our entire organization, we are extremely appreciative of the patience and trust that this community has shown in the Denver Broncos during the negotiations. We care greatly about the special relationship we have with our fans, and it was our responsibility to resolve this matter and return football to the field. The loyalty of our fans, in particular our season ticket holders, has been truly remarkable over the last few months.

“Although the offseason was unsettling for everyone, this agreement will ensure the continued growth and prosperity of this league well into the future. I am thrilled that it is finally time to turn our attention back to the game that all of us love.

“There is tremendous energy and anticipation in our building with Head Coach John Fox and his staff eager to resume working with our players and getting back on the field. John Elway and the personnel department are ready to execute their free agency plans to improve our team.

“We are all excited in advance of the 2011 season and are looking forward to a successful year of Broncos football.”

:Broncos:

IHaveALight
07-25-2011, 01:26 PM
They're getting the field's ready!

http://files.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Images/11_Blogs/110725_fieldprep_blog.jpg

http://files.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Images/11_Blogs/110725_field_blog.jpg

Beantown Bronco
07-25-2011, 01:28 PM
Every time I read a Bowlen quote now, all I can think about is him running around the room in his short shorts speaking in tongues while some first year intern at a computer tries to type up the actual statement and keeps looking over at Ellis to translate. I'm forever tainted by that damn webcam pic of him in the draft room.

RunSilentRunDeep
07-25-2011, 01:32 PM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Bowlen-on-New-CBA/d47e2054-9538-4c4a-896d-8b6da27f2b15


ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- On Monday, President and CEO Pat Bowlen released the following statement on the new collective bargaining agreement.

“I am very pleased with the commitment shown by the National Football League, its owners and the players to reach a new Collective Bargaining Agreement that is fair for everyone. As co-Chair of the NFL’s Management Council Executive Committee, I applaud the hard work of my fellow committee members throughout every step of this process.

“On behalf of our entire organization, we are extremely appreciative of the patience and trust that this community has shown in the Denver Broncos during the negotiations. We care greatly about the special relationship we have with our fans, and it was our responsibility to resolve this matter and return football to the field. The loyalty of our fans, in particular our season ticket holders, has been truly remarkable over the last few months.

“Although the offseason was unsettling for everyone, this agreement will ensure the continued growth and prosperity of this league well into the future. I am thrilled that it is finally time to turn our attention back to the game that all of us love.

“There is tremendous energy and anticipation in our building with Head Coach John Fox and his staff eager to resume working with our players and getting back on the field. John Elway and the personnel department are ready to execute their free agency plans to improve our team.

“We are all excited in advance of the 2011 season and are looking forward to a successful year of Broncos football.”

:Broncos:

Bowlen continued: "By the way, those loyal season ticket holders I was talking about will not receive any compensation for the interest-free loans they've given me for the past five months.

And even though your tickets have been devalued since the product will feature even crappier players in the preseason, uncoordinated football due to lack of preparation and the loss of interest of your property on the open market, I will not lower concession stand prices or do anything else to make up for it."

"Once again, thank you for undying loyalty, tax-payer subsidizing and anti-trust laws. I'm sorry but I just can't afford the Vaseline due to cash flow problems."

Drek
07-25-2011, 01:37 PM
The new CBA should be a big win for Bowlen. I'm under the impression that the middle tier owners who spend competitively made out best. They get a higher percentage of profit and the 89% floor isn't a real impact on them, yet they don't make enough to carry significant water in revenue sharing a la the Cowboys or Redskins. Coupled with our highest draft pick ever coming on the cusp of top 10 rookie slotting and Bowlen made out like a bandit on the timing of this whole thing.

mkporter
07-25-2011, 01:42 PM
It was nice to see that Bowlen didn't cut salaries of the rank-and-file employees of the organization during the lockout. A lot of teams did, and it was pretty bush-league.

epicSocialism4tw
07-25-2011, 01:42 PM
Bowlen continued: "By the way, those loyal season ticket holders I was talking about will not receive any compensation for the interest-free loans they've given me for the past five months.

And even though your tickets have been devalued since the product will feature even crappier players in the preseason, uncoordinated football due to lack of preparation and the loss of interest of your property on the open market, I will not lower concession stand prices or do anything else to make up for it."

"Once again, thank you for undying loyalty, tax-payer subsidizing and anti-trust laws. I'm sorry but I just can't afford the Vaseline due to cash flow problems."

LOL

Kaylore
07-25-2011, 01:49 PM
It was nice to see that Bowlen didn't cut salaries of the rank-and-file employees of the organization during the lockout. A lot of teams did, and it was pretty bush-league.

It doesn't matter. He fired Shanahan and deserves eternal damnation

/socalbronco

IHaveALight
07-25-2011, 01:56 PM
It doesn't matter. He fired McDaniels and deserves eternal damnation

/baja

also

bronco militia
07-25-2011, 01:59 PM
bwhaha

HILife
07-25-2011, 02:22 PM
Every time I read a Bowlen quote now, all I can think about is him running around the room in his short shorts speaking in tongues while some first year intern at a computer tries to type up the actual statement and keeps looking over at Ellis to translate. I'm forever tainted by that damn webcam pic of him in the draft room.

I got a good laugh from that webcam.

oubronco
07-25-2011, 03:39 PM
The new CBA should be a big win for Bowlen. I'm under the impression that the middle tier owners who spend competitively made out best. They get a higher percentage of profit and the 89% floor isn't a real impact on them, yet they don't make enough to carry significant water in revenue sharing a la the Cowboys or Redskins. Coupled with our highest draft pick ever coming on the cusp of top 10 rookie slotting and Bowlen made out like a bandit on the timing of this whole thing.

Yea just too bad Suh came out a year too early for Denver to get

SoCalBronco
07-25-2011, 04:40 PM
It doesn't matter. He fired Shanahan and deserves eternal damnation

/socalbronco

He certainly deserves eternal damnation for alot of things. One good thing about this CBA is that it will force Bowlen to get off his ass and start spending again for this football team. Despite his nice sounding statement, I doubt he's thrilled with the new rules about the actual cash outlays. I'm glad the players got that in there, though. The Scrooge McDuck days are hopefully over.

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 05:08 PM
It doesn't matter. He fired Shanahan and deserves eternal damnation

/socalbronco

Boy was that the right move!

/every idiot

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 05:11 PM
Boy was that the right move!

/every idiot

I know right...Shannahan REALLY dominated the NFC East last year...


Oh wait....no he didn't....he finished dead last.

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 05:14 PM
I know right...Shannahan REALLY dominated the NFC East last year...


Oh wait....no he didn't....he finished dead last.

Thanks for proving my earlier post!

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 05:18 PM
Thanks for proving my earlier post!


http://smiliesftw.com/x/glock836_roll_eyes.gif

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 05:21 PM
[IMG]http://smiliesftw.com/x/glock836_roll_eyes.gif[IMG]

Exactly.

We're now a team with a massive talent deficiency coming out of the worst season in franchise history. Something extremely unprecedented in the better part of two decades Shanahan was head coach resulting in an unprecedented amount of wins, offensive yards and points, rushing, and as many super bowl wins as losing seasons.

But, hey, that 4-12 season was really fun!

Agamemnon
07-25-2011, 05:25 PM
He certainly deserves eternal damnation for alot of things. One good thing about this CBA is that it will force Bowlen to get off his ass and start spending again for this football team. Despite his nice sounding statement, I doubt he's thrilled with the new rules about the actual cash outlays. I'm glad the players got that in there, though. The Scrooge McDuck days are hopefully over.

Err...the Broncos have consistently spent near the cap for as long as I can remember. What are you talking about?

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 05:27 PM
Exactly.

We're now a team with a massive talent deficiency coming out of the worst season in franchise history. Something extremely unprecedented in the better part of two decades Shanahan was head coach resulting in an unprecedented amount of wins, offensive yards and points, rushing, and as many super bowl wins as losing seasons.

But, hey, that 4-12 season was really fun!


I'm guessing Redskin fans really enjoyed their 6-10 last place finish as well.


It was time for Shannahan to go. He didn't have Elway or Davis anymore and it showed. The defense was a horse abortion and the offense was headed in the same direction.

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 05:29 PM
I'm guessing Redskin fans really enjoyed their 6-10 last place finish as well.

...coming off a 4-12 season and installing new systems and players? Yeah, they probably did.

It was time for Shannahan to go. He didn't have Elway or Davis anymore and it showed. The defense was a horse abortion and the offense was headed in the same direction.

You mean the #2 offense in the NFL despite the rampant injuries? And just finished setting a franchise record?

Boy was that the right move!

/every idiot

^ Case = Rested

wolf754life
07-25-2011, 05:30 PM
lets not start that up again, shannahan had to go, mc d was a mistake, we move on

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 05:32 PM
...coming off a 4-12 season and installing new systems and players? Yeah, they probably did.



You mean the #2 offense in the NFL despite the rampant injuries? And just finished setting a franchise record?



^ Case = Rested


Then go be a Redskin fan counselor...


Do you recall why Denver set franchise records throught the air that year?


Because they were playing catchup most of the time and had to throw the ball every play.

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 05:36 PM
Then go be a Redskin fan counselor...

Ooooh good one, Mr Join Date: 2010

Do you recall why Denver set franchise records throught the air that year?

Because they were playing catchup most of the time and had to throw the ball every play.

That's funny. Do you have any evidence to back that up?

I sure have some to refute it:

Cutler had 2447 yards in 8 wins.
Cutler had 2079 yards in 8 losses.

http://www.nfl.com/player/jaycutler/2495824/gamesplits?season=2008

Myth=Busted

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 05:42 PM
Ooooh good one, Mr Join Date: 2010



That's funny. Do you have any evidence to back that up?

I sure have some to refute it:

Cutler had 2447 yards in 8 wins.
Cutler had 2079 yards in 8 losses.

http://www.nfl.com/player/jaycutler/2495824/gamesplits?season=2008

Myth=Busted


Oh....so if a team wins....there is absolutely no way they could have been losing previously in the game?


PS. Denvers 3rd worst scoring defense in the league from 2008 says hi...


PPS. Most of the time you see a QB throwing for a ton of yards...they are usually doing so out of necessity. It's not a myth...but a fact.

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 05:47 PM
Oh....so if a team wins....there is absolutely no way they could have been losing previously in the game?


PS. Denvers 3 worst scoring defense in the league says hi...

Okay then here:

http://www.nfl.com/player/jaycutler/2495824/situationalstats?season=2008

Almost EXACTLY half of his yards that year came from playing "behind" (2297 out of 4526=50.7%). Far cry from your statement of:

Because they were playing catchup most of the time and had to throw the ball every play.

PS. Denver's even worse defense in EVERY statistical facet says hi.

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 05:49 PM
Okay then here:

http://www.nfl.com/player/jaycutler/2495824/situationalstats?season=2008

Almost EXACTLY half of his yards that year came from playing "behind" (2297 out of 4526=50.7%). Far cry from your statement of:



PS. Denver's even worse defense in EVERY statistical facet says hi.



LOL....I love that you were a fan of the direction that Shannahan was taking this team...


It was time for him to go.


PS. I was no fan of McDip****.

SoCalBronco
07-25-2011, 05:53 PM
Then go be a Redskin fan .

A clear case of tsiguyitis.

It's clear you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how this board works. This is not the team website, its not Broncomania. You don't get brownie points for being a militantly blind cheering homer, here. This isn't a circle jerk....its a message board where we're supposed to use critical thinking and reasoned analysis. We're not going to forget Shanny just because he's not here anymore, so take your "then go be a redskin fan" line and shove it. If you can't stand that people are unwilling to make excuses for the disaster that the old man has turned this club into, then you're the one that is going to have to adjust, not others.

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 05:59 PM
LOL....I love that you were a fan of the direction that Shannahan was taking this team...


It was time for him to go.


PS. I was no fan of McDip****.

Classic "Abandon Argument and Throw Random Insults" post.

....do you have ANYTHING to support what you were saying or would you like to come out and admit you were talking out of your ass?

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 06:03 PM
Classic "Abandon Argument and Throw Random Insults" post.

....do you have ANYTHING to support what you were saying or would you like to come out and admit you were talking out of your ass?

How did I insult you?


Do I have anything to support that Shannahan needed to go? Yes....he had one playoff win in his last 10 years.


Denver lost half their games in 2008...which meant they were throwing more than they were running. And in their 8 wins, many of those games were shootouts.


Just don't understand why you are so boned up about Shannahan when he was clearly taking this team in the wrong direction.

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 06:07 PM
How did I insult you?

LOL....I love that you were a fan of the direction that Shannahan was taking this team...

Do I have anything to support that Shannahan needed to go? Yes....he had one playoff win in his last 10 years.

Was talking about your hilarious assertion about "playing catchup most of the time" that was completely factually dissected, but that post just as myopic so clearly talking to you will get nowhere.

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 06:09 PM
Was talking about your hilarious assertion about "playing catchup most of the time" that was completely factually dissected, but that post just as myopic so clearly talking to you will get nowhere.


Please get over yourself.

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 06:16 PM
Please get over yourself.

Please bring something to the discussion.

DBroncos4life
07-25-2011, 06:28 PM
So the Skins improve in the first year with Mike and people still bash him.

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 06:28 PM
Please bring something to the discussion.

If you don't believe Denver wasn't throwing the ball and "setting records" in 2008 due to Shannahans terrible defense, I don't know what to tell you.


At this point you are arguing just to argue...

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 06:29 PM
So the Skins improve in the first year with Mike and people still bash him.

They went from last place....to last place.


Color me unimpressed.

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 06:33 PM
If you don't believe Denver wasn't throwing the ball and "setting records" in 2008 due to Shannahans terrible defense, I don't know what to tell you.


At this point you are arguing just to argue...

Ah okay, so now the argument changes after being proven factually inaccurate.

...and if this is the case where the offense set records solely due to the defense's ineptitude, why wasn't that record broken again last year? (Over 20% less effective instead)

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 06:36 PM
Ah okay, so now the argument changes after being proven factually inaccurate.

...and if this is the case where the offense set records solely due to the defense's ineptitude, why wasn't that record broken again last year? (Over 20% less effective instead)

It's not factually innaccurate...and what argument am I changing? My original argument was regarding the Shannahan firing being the right move....which it was.


Denver was behind or involved in shootouts for most of 2008...


McDickFace certainly tried to throw it every play last year...once again out of necessity.

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 06:40 PM
It's not factually innaccurate...and what argument am I changing?


Denver was behind or involved in shootouts for most of 2008...

See:

Okay then here:

http://www.nfl.com/player/jaycutler/2495824/situationalstats?season=2008

Almost EXACTLY half of his yards that year came from playing "behind" (2297 out of 4526=50.7%)./QUOTE]

[QUOTE=StugotsIII;3225316]McDickFace certainly tried to throw it every play last year...once again out of necessity.

Necessity?

Quote in post game KC presser (loss) after gouging them on the ground and leading the game: "You have to throw sometime"

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 06:47 PM
See:

[QUOTE=TheReverend;3225272]Okay then here:

http://www.nfl.com/player/jaycutler/2495824/situationalstats?season=2008

Almost EXACTLY half of his yards that year came from playing "behind" (2297 out of 4526=50.7%)./QUOTE]



Necessity?

Quote in post game KC presser (loss) after gouging them on the ground and leading the game: "You have to throw sometime"


Yes...they threw out of necessity...especially that year. See, when your defense can't stop anyone...you end up throwing more than you would if you had a good defense.

Why?

Because most of the time, you are losing...

You seem like the guy on the board that will just argue to argue...

Do you honestly not see why Denver threw as many times as they did in 2008?

Are you saying Denver WASN'T involved in shootouts in 2008 forcing them to throw the ball more often?

OBF1
07-25-2011, 06:51 PM
It doesn't matter. He fired Shanahan and deserves eternal damnation

/ATLAS...

SoCalBronco
07-25-2011, 06:53 PM
...

I miss Atlas...he was a good guy. :(

OBF1
07-25-2011, 06:55 PM
Atlas was a great poster and a great guy, he just could not get over it. Guess he was a Shannahan fan, not so much a Bronco fan.

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 06:58 PM
See:




Yes...they threw out of necessity...especially that year. See, when your defense can't stop anyone...you end up throwing more than you would if you had a good defense.

Why?

Because most of the time, you are losing...

You seem like the guy on the board that will just argue to argue...

Do you honestly not see why Denver threw as many times as they did in 2008?

Are you saying Denver WASN'T involved in shootouts in 2008 forcing them to throw the ball more often?

No...

I'm saying only 50% of their yards came from playing from behind. Which I linked proof of. Which completely debunks your argument.

How the **** are you missing this? Ha!

IHaveALight
07-25-2011, 07:02 PM
Playing from behind or not, that team was always in a shoot out because the d couldn't stop ****.
And on top of that wasn’t that the year we lost like 10 running backs and pretty much had to pass?

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 07:04 PM
Playing from behind or not, that team was always in a shoot out because the d couldn't stop ****.
And on top of that wasn’t that the year we lost like 10 running backs and pretty much had to pass?

...and still missed the playoffs by only a tie breaker and had the #2 O in the NFL. Clearly the "wrong direction"

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 07:08 PM
No...

I'm saying only 50% of their yards came from playing from behind. Which I linked proof of. Which completely debunks your argument.

How the **** are you missing this? Ha!


Have fun living in the past.


My original argument was regarding Shannahan. You chose to glom onto a point I made about WHY they broke a franchise passing record. Quite frankly, you are splitting hairs. Denver's defense in 2008 SUCKED....and that is why they threw the ball as much as they did.


They main point is...for some reason you are still claiming that the Shannahan firing was a bad move. I guess compared to McDaniels it was...but then again hindsight is always 20/20.


Bottom line.....he had to go. When you have a trendline that is going down in the wins department....you don't last long in the NFL.

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 07:11 PM
...and still missed the playoffs by only a tie breaker and had the #2 O in the NFL. Clearly the "wrong direction"

Yes...wrong direction...

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 07:14 PM
Have fun living in the past.

Couldn't have seen a response like this coming from you...

My original argument was regarding Shannahan. You chose to glom onto a point I made about WHY they broke a franchise passing record. Quite frankly, you are splitting hairs. Denver's defense in 2008 SUCKED....and that is why they threw the ball as much as they did.

You made the asanine statement. Or did you forget? Here:

It was time for Shannahan to go. He didn't have Elway or Davis anymore and it showed. The defense was a horse abortion and the offense was headed in the same direction.

ROFL!

They main point is...for some reason you are still claiming that the Shannahan firing was a bad move. I guess compared to McDaniels it was...but then again hindsight is always 20/20.

No, the main point was:

"an unprecedented amount of wins, offensive yards and points, rushing, and as many super bowl wins as losing seasons."

Try to keep up

Bottom line.....he had to go. When you have a trendline that is going down in the wins department....you don't last long in the NFL.

...Not sure you know what a "trend-line" is if you think that happened.

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 07:16 PM
Couldn't have seen a response like this coming from you...



You made the asanine statement. Or did you forget? Here:



ROFL!



No, the main point was:

"an unprecedented amount of wins, offensive yards and points, rushing, and as many super bowl wins as losing seasons."

Try to keep up



...Not sure you know what a "trend-line" is if you think that happened.

Last 4 years of Shanahans career.....trended WAY down...


I'm done arguing with you.


He is gone and putting up 6 win seasons with the Redskins.

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 07:19 PM
Last 4 years of Shanahans career.....trended WAY down...


I'm done arguing with you.


He is gone and putting up 6 win seasons with the Redskins.

Okay, so you just wanted to make sure you started your line at the AFCCG season? Sounds legit, man.


You've done a swell job in this thread:

Boy was that the right move!

/every idiot

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 07:37 PM
Okay, so you just wanted to make sure you started your line at the AFCCG season? Sounds legit, man.


You've done a swell job in this thread:



I guess I'm not done after all…


If you did the trend line after the last Super Bowl win it's stagnant. If you remove the top and bottom data points the trend line is going down.


Bottom line….after the Super Bowl wins with Davis and Elway….Shanahan didn't produce but 1 playoff win.


1 playoff win does not cut it...

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 07:38 PM
I guess I'm not done after all…


If you did the trend line after the last Super Bowl win it's stagnant. If you remove the top and bottom data points the trend line is going down.


Bottom line….after the Super Bowl wins with Davis and Elway….Shanahan didn't produce but 1 playoff win.


1 playoff win does not cut it...


PS. Love the fact that you resort to name calling...

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 07:41 PM
PS. Love the fact that you resort to name calling...

...when?

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 07:47 PM
...when?

"/every idiot"



Glad you were happy with a record setting offense and 1 playoff win in 10 years.

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 08:00 PM
"/every idiot"



Glad you were happy with a record setting offense and 1 playoff win in 10 years.

2 superbowl wins and an annual contender is what I was happy with.

Glad drafting 2nd suits you better.

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 08:04 PM
2 superbowl wins and an annual contender is what I was happy with.

Glad drafting 2nd suits you better.

Like I said before….not a fan of McDaniels. And where did I say I'm a fan of drafting 2nd?

You can't win 1 playoff game in 10 years and expect to keep your job.

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 08:13 PM
Like I said before….not a fan of McDaniels. And where did I say I'm a fan of drafting 2nd?

You can't win 1 playoff game in 10 years and expect to keep your job.

Where did I say 1 playoff win in 10 years made me happy?

Sucks when people shove words in your mouth, doesn't it?

ChrisToker
07-25-2011, 08:17 PM
He certainly deserves eternal damnation for alot of things. One good thing about this CBA is that it will force Bowlen to get off his ass and start spending again for this football team. Despite his nice sounding statement, I doubt he's thrilled with the new rules about the actual cash outlays. I'm glad the players got that in there, though. The Scrooge McDuck days are hopefully over.

Bowlen is a good person overall. with that said any one else wish that him and Stan Kroenke swapped franchise? Bowlen could have sold rams to AEG (LA) and retired. Perfect for all involved...except st. louis fans. I see Stan as more of Mark Cuban mold then Bowlen penny pincher.

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 08:18 PM
Where did I say 1 playoff win in 10 years made me happy?

Sucks when people shove words in your mouth, doesn't it?

It does…


Doesn't change the fact that he was fired for a decade of mediocre performace.

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 08:19 PM
It does…


Doesn't change the fact that he was fired for a decade of mediocre performace.

LOL

In what way is that "mediocre"?

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 08:33 PM
LOL

In what way is that "mediocre"?

You are right….one playoff win in 10 years is pretty bad.



It really sounds like you have taken the Shanahan firing really, REALLY hard.



Poor thing. Hey there little fella….you can always be a Redskin fan...

TheReverend
07-25-2011, 08:36 PM
You are right….one playoff win in 10 years is pretty bad.

It really sounds like you have taken the Shanahan firing really, REALLY hard.

Poor thing. Hey there little fella….you can always be a Redskin fan...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand full circle on your bull**** posts.

Thanks for bringing literally nothing to the table, reinforcing what I said to begin with and you have a terrible night like you deserve! :thumbsup:

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 08:42 PM
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand full circle on your bull**** posts.

Thanks for bringing literally nothing to the table, reinforcing what I said to begin with and you have a terrible night like you deserve! :thumbsup:

Whatever….I'm gonna sleep like a champ.


You are the one still butt hurt over an underperforming coach getting fired 2 years ago.

Inkana7
07-25-2011, 08:44 PM
Ah so this is why this topic is 3 pages.

MagicHef
07-25-2011, 08:45 PM
It sure feels like I've read this thread before.

StugotsIII
07-25-2011, 08:47 PM
It sure feels like I've read this thread before.

It's my fault for getting sucked into something that really doesn't matter.


My bad. I should have known better to argue about this BS again...

Agamemnon
07-25-2011, 09:30 PM
Bowlen is a good person overall. with that said any one else wish that him and Stan Kroenke swapped franchise? Bowlen could have sold rams to AEG (LA) and retired. Perfect for all involved...except st. louis fans. I see Stan as more of Mark Cuban mold then Bowlen penny pincher.

Penny pincher? Bowlen spends money readily. We're pretty much always near the cap limit. Where do you people get this crap?

SoCalBronco
07-25-2011, 09:53 PM
Penny pincher? Bowlen spends money readily. We're pretty much always near the cap limit. Where do you people get this crap?

Bowlen is not a big spender. We were near the top of the league in the last decade in wins per dollars spent. I've gone through the USA Today Salary Database year by year. We ranked about 19th or 20th in actual spending. People tried to defend the old man by claiming that the statistics were skewed because of dead money....well that's not the case. I'm not saying we didn't have some dead money, but if you look at the year by year totals, under Shanny from 00-08, there were only two years were we spent significant sums of money compared to the rest of the league. It simply doesn't make sense that two years of big spending would create an amount of dead money that would require us to be cheapstakes for 7 other years. Also, if dead money were the driving force behind the actual dollars being low, it would necessarily follow that Denver would have hit the cap tidal wave that hit SF and TEN, but that never happened. Shanny missed on some FA's and some of those FA's got big bonuses, but that doesn't mean we didn't make up for it elsewhere with bargain basements and it absolutely doesn't mean that the cap as a whole was wrecked due to dead money. The figures demonstrate that we simply didn't spend alot of money...and in fact our .500 records actually overperformed the investment.

Bowlen bears a significant amount of moral blame for the three straight years of .500 football that characterized the end of Shanny's tenure, here. Bowlen also allowed terrible men to gain his ear and lacked the common sense to act when actions were needed in crisis. He's absolutely one of the worst owners in the entire league.

ChrisToker
07-25-2011, 09:58 PM
When was the last time we had a top teir free agent walk though our door? Jake the Snake maybe? Yeah we put a bunch of money into a bunch of scrubs i.e. the brows DL, Jamal Williams, Dre Bly. Dawkins as much as I loved him as a player should never have been a Bronco. Plus Bowlen is not in frame of health mentally

mkporter
07-25-2011, 10:06 PM
The correct answer as to why Shanahan had to go is, "Bob Slowick."

Agamemnon
07-25-2011, 10:12 PM
The correct answer as to why Shanahan had to go is, "Bob Slowick."

Indeed.

Agamemnon
07-25-2011, 10:18 PM
Bowlen is not a big spender. We were near the top of the league in the last decade in wins per dollars spent. I've gone through the USA Today Salary Database year by year. We ranked about 19th or 20th in actual spending. People tried to defend the old man by claiming that the statistics were skewed because of dead money....well that's not the case. I'm not saying we didn't have some dead money, but if you look at the year by year totals, under Shanny from 00-08, there were only two years were we spent significant sums of money compared to the rest of the league. It simply doesn't make sense that two years of big spending would create an amount of dead money that would require us to be cheapstakes for 7 other years. Also, if dead money were the driving force behind the actual dollars being low, it would necessarily follow that Denver would have hit the cap tidal wave that hit SF and TEN, but that never happened. Shanny missed on some FA's and some of those FA's got big bonuses, but that doesn't mean we didn't make up for it elsewhere with bargain basements and it absolutely doesn't mean that the cap as a whole was wrecked due to dead money. The figures demonstrate that we simply didn't spend alot of money...and in fact our .500 records actually overperformed the investment.

Bowlen bears a significant amount of moral blame for the three straight years of .500 football that characterized the end of Shanny's tenure, here. Bowlen also allowed terrible men to gain his ear and lacked the common sense to act when actions were needed in crisis. He's absolutely one of the worst owners in the entire league.

Could you provide a link for any of that? For as long as I remember we have always spent up to the cap number or close to it. We have never been one of these teams that leaves 50 million unspent on the cap. So if we didn't spend as much actual money as many teams it would seem to be precisely because of dead money despite your claims otherwise. If a team reaches their cap number they can't spend anymore money. It's pretty simple.

Just looking at our situation this year we are going to have to do some work to get under the cap. How exactly does that happen with a cheap owner?

SoCalBronco
07-25-2011, 10:49 PM
Could you provide a link for any of that? For as long as I remember we have always spent up to the cap number or close to it. We have never been one of these teams that leaves 50 million unspent on the cap. So if we didn't spend as much actual money as many teams it would seem to be precisely because of dead money despite your claims otherwise. If a team reaches their cap number they can't spend anymore money. It's pretty simple.

Just looking at our situation this year we are going to have to do some work to get under the cap. How exactly does that happen with a cheap owner?

Here is the post where I broke down the numbers year by year:
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3198873&highlight=dead#post3198873

Also, here is the link for the database itself:
http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/nfl/salaries/team
(In the upper left hand corner, there is a drop down menu where you can view years 2000-2009)

Finally, here is the link for the study I discussed earlier analyzing wins per dollars spent (the time period analyzed is 2004-2008, the analysis puts Denver at 5th best in the league):
http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/06/29/more-moneyball-the-economics-of-wins-and-losses/

Agamemnon
07-26-2011, 03:09 AM
Here is the post where I broke down the numbers year by year:
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3198873&highlight=dead#post3198873

Also, here is the link for the database itself:
http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/nfl/salaries/team
(In the upper left hand corner, there is a drop down menu where you can view years 2000-2009)

Finally, here is the link for the study I discussed earlier analyzing wins per dollars spent (the time period analyzed is 2004-2008, the analysis puts Denver at 5th best in the league):
http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/06/29/more-moneyball-the-economics-of-wins-and-losses/

Not a single one of those links proves that Bowlen is a cheap owner. The most one could conclude from them is that he's pretty much average. I don't see a problem there. The big spending owners are pretty much universally the worst.

Kaylore
07-26-2011, 05:50 AM
Not a single one of those links proves that Bowlen is a cheap owner. The most one could conclude from them is that he's pretty much average. I don't see a problem there. The big spending owners are pretty much universally the worst.

He's not a cheap owner. Socal's argument breaks down when you start looking at the specifics. For example, when challenged to list a player we were outbid on, none can be named. If you go case by case, the argument unwravels.

Holes in the theory:

1. Shanahan had a blank check his entire tenure. This really destroys the entire argument. All hiring went through him, and so the blame for this falls on him. Patrick Kearney didn't not sign with us because we didn't offer him enough money, he signed with Seattle because he thought he'd have a better shot at winning (he was right.) We didn't re-sign Reggie Hayward because we felt he was overpriced. We were right. We didn't resign Bert Berry because we felt he was overpriced. We were wrong, but Shanahan made that call, not Bowlen. Same goes for cutting Pryce.

2. We spent a lot, but we spent on bad hires (by Shanahan). I'm not here to bash Shanny. I hope the best for him, but even his most ardent supporters can't argue his free agent success was pretty bad. Huge contracts to Travis Henry, Ihop, Ian Gold, Niko Koutwhatever - these types of failed free agent signings rarely panned out, and even when they did they never brought the return. This resulted in huge cap hits when they inevitably were cut, which limited our ability the next years in free agency. Again, none of this was Bowlen.

So Bowlen "not spending" is a straw man argument. I think Socal is mad he traded Cutler and fired Shanahan and likes to rail on him. Also, he told me as much over the phone. :)

FWIW, I find it hilarious and my apologies for causing the thread to derail. ROFL!

jhns
07-26-2011, 06:10 AM
Rev wins this thread.