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EmpireOrange
07-20-2011, 08:58 AM
Insiders have revealed the Denver Broncos’ 2011-12 strategy, and now I pass it on to you:

Orton:

According to inside sources, Kyle Orton will be traded to the Miami Dolphins within hours of the opening of free agency. Compensation package for Orton is still being negotiated but it sounds like mid-round 2012 and 2013 draft picks, and a running back is in the discussion.

Tebow:

Denver Broncos insiders indicated that Football Czar, and former Bronco great, John Elway's view of Tim Tebow is not as the team's future; but rather as the middle path. Souces say that Mr. Elway believes starting Tebow this season is the best path to the future and also a win-win for the Denver Broncos. It's a strategy of short-term pain for long-term dominance brought by stirring the team in position for 1st overall draft pick draft in 2012. Thus drafting Andrew Luck is Denver’s best option to right the ship. The chances that Tebow fails to adjust to the NFL game, and the team vies for the 1st overall draft pick is very good. Mr. Elway even hired John Fox as the coach to better the odds. Although a Mr. Fox is a successful coach in his own right, his strong points do not entail, nor does the aging coach have the desire to have, a raw rookie QB as a leader of his team. He has also coached teams to the No. 1 pick overall before. Mr. Elway believes that fans will grow tired of Tebow as the losing sets in and supplanting him in 2012 will be a much smoother transition. On the flip side, to complete the win-win, should Tebow play well, his popularity and hype will garner a lot of interest to the team and increase the value of the franchise. The team may not vie for championships, but business will be good.


Stay tuned for more insider info as it comes. As we get closer and closer to a deal, and free-agency, there’s going to be a lot of misinformation flying from all directions. Reliable information will be at a premium. And there is no more reliable than insider information.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
07-20-2011, 09:02 AM
link?

tsiguy96
07-20-2011, 09:03 AM
dont buy it.

i buy that denver will start tebow and that the coaching staff isnt sold on whether he will be a success, i dont buy that they are convinced he is a failure and starting him is the path to first overall pick next year, or that they hired fox to get to that pick etc.

no one will get tired of tebow losing in a single year, because he will show flashes of pure brilliance along with rough patches (like we saw already), and if that can be ironed out over the next few years, and id love to see people bet against tebow that he cant do it, denver may have a very special QB on their hands.

OBF1
07-20-2011, 09:07 AM
This place has become a cesspool.

Drunk Monkey
07-20-2011, 09:08 AM
I could live with Ronnie Brown and a couple of picks for Orton.

BS on the QB front. No owner would allow a strategy of loosing you way to the first pick to fly. That is putting a ridiculous amount of faith in a QB still in collage. No effin way.

Pony Boy
07-20-2011, 09:08 AM
Mr. Elway believes starting Tebow this season is the best path to the future and also a win-win for the Denver Broncos. It's a strategy of short-term pain for long-term dominance brought by stirring the team in position for 1st overall draft pick draft in 2012.

This just might be the most stupid, ignorant and asinine statement ever posted on the OM..........

TheReverend
07-20-2011, 09:10 AM
I could live with Ronnie Brown and a couple of picks for Orton.

BS on the QB front. No owner would allow a strategy of loosing you way to the first pick to fly. That is putting a ridiculous amount of faith in a QB still in collage. No effin way.

Ronnie will be a FA if I remember correctly.

That One Guy
07-20-2011, 09:12 AM
Wow. This is a more retarded thread than the last insider info thread we had.

TheReverend
07-20-2011, 09:13 AM
Wow. This is a more retarded thread than the last insider info thread we had.

The "we're back!" thread where he guaranteed the CBA would be finished within 72 hours a month ago?

Beantown Bronco
07-20-2011, 09:14 AM
Ronnie will be a FA if I remember correctly.

Not that I lend any credence to the scenario outlined above, but I assume they must be anticipating a "tag and trade" type scenario.....assuming of course the new CBA allows for such things.

Dagmar
07-20-2011, 09:16 AM
I thought Miami's 2 leading rushers were FA's?

I can see Miami being a good fit for Orton. Skanks on south beach watch out!

*edit*
Just read the rest of the article. Wow. That's some cracking journalism. :spit:

OABB
07-20-2011, 09:18 AM
Gaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy!

jhns
07-20-2011, 09:19 AM
We should trade Orton for Marshall.

OABB
07-20-2011, 09:19 AM
Cant link videos on phone.....can someone post that clip for me?

Abqbronco
07-20-2011, 09:20 AM
Wow. This is a more retarded thread than the last insider info thread we had.

Amen. I put more faith in that guy that said he knew somebody on the San Diego staff than this. If there is one thing that I am sure of, it is that John Elway NEVER plans on losing. He isn't wired that way. He will do everything that he can to win. It may not work but he is going to try.

TheReverend
07-20-2011, 09:21 AM
Not that I lend any credence to the scenario outlined above, but I assume they must be anticipating a "tag and trade" type scenario.....assuming of course the new CBA allows for such things.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/619315-miami-dolphins-franchise-tag-placed-on-nose-tackle-paul-soliai

Beantown Bronco
07-20-2011, 09:25 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/619315-miami-dolphins-franchise-tag-placed-on-nose-tackle-paul-soliai

Gotcha. Transition tag? I know it's a stupid stretch, but so is the entire original post.

That One Guy
07-20-2011, 09:27 AM
The "we're back!" thread where he guaranteed the CBA would be finished within 72 hours a month ago?

Yep. Worse than that.

oubronco
07-20-2011, 09:30 AM
MacGoober is that you?

enjolras
07-20-2011, 09:33 AM
This just might be the most stupid, ignorant and asinine statement ever posted on the OM..........

Not to mention the most grammatically atrocious "article" I've ever read. "stirring the team in position", wtf does that even mean?

TheReverend
07-20-2011, 09:35 AM
Gotcha. Transition tag? I know it's a stupid stretch, but so is the entire original post.

Agree about the OP. I'm not certain there will be a transition tag. I thought I read the new CBA will entail the franchise tag alone. I could be WAY off though. I'm also not sure if you can even trade someone under the transition tag? Seems to never happen at least.

Jack Hammer
07-20-2011, 10:16 AM
Long time lurker says Absolute Dumbest Thread Ever.

OABB
07-20-2011, 10:21 AM
Long time lurker says Absolute Dumbest Thread Ever.

omg! you know a thread is bad when a 5 post 8 year lurker says it's dumb.

Taco John
07-20-2011, 10:23 AM
Frankly, I think that the narrative that the OP paints is consistent with the way the new regime has handled Tebow to date. I'm not saying that it's absolutely true - I have no way of knowing that - but I will say you haven't been paying attention if you think it's all that far-fetched.

Flex Gunmetal
07-20-2011, 10:32 AM
I remember the first time I threw sht against a wall.

Cool Breeze
07-20-2011, 10:33 AM
Stay tuned for more insider info as it comes. As we get closer and closer to a deal, and free-agency, there’s going to be a lot of misinformation flying from all directions. Reliable information will be at a premium. And there is no more reliable than insider information

Clearly it has started...

Broncoman13
07-20-2011, 10:40 AM
dont buy it.

i buy that denver will start tebow and that the coaching staff isnt sold on whether he will be a success, i dont buy that they are convinced he is a failure and starting him is the path to first overall pick next year, or that they hired fox to get to that pick etc.

no one will get tired of tebow losing in a single year, because he will show flashes of pure brilliance along with rough patches (like we saw already), and if that can be ironed out over the next few years, and id love to see people bet against tebow that he cant do it, denver may have a very special QB on their hands.

QFT, nothing I can add to this other than I agree completely!

Taco John
07-20-2011, 10:43 AM
Where did this come from anyways? It reads like Bill Williamson.

cutthemdown
07-20-2011, 10:45 AM
Total BS.

Beantown Bronco
07-20-2011, 10:46 AM
Frankly, I think that the narrative that the OP paints is consistent with the way the new regime has handled Tebow to date.

To be fair, they haven't been allowed to even talk with players, outside of that one or two day period before the draft. So they really haven't "handled Tebow" at all.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
07-20-2011, 10:48 AM
To be fair, they haven't been allowed to even talk with players, outside of that one or two day period before the draft. So they really haven't "handled Tebow" at all.

Even Tebow doesn't "handle Tebow."

Taco John
07-20-2011, 10:55 AM
To be fair, they haven't been allowed to even talk with players, outside of that one or two day period before the draft. So they really haven't "handled Tebow" at all.



Broncos' Elway says Kyle Orton could start over Tim Tebow next season

DALLAS — Making the rounds at the Super Bowl today, John Elway said the Denver Broncos have plenty of decisions to make on their roster, including starting quarterback.

While most football fans in the free world assumed Tim Tebow had already been declared the Broncos starting quarterback for the 2011 season, Elway said that's not the case.

Asked if Kyle Orton was still the team's starting quarterback, Elway said: "If we had to go right now, but we've got to make a decision about where we're going to go. In my mind we've got to figure what we're going to do offensively at that position and that's why I'm not guaranteeing anybody's going to start."

Elway also added that "Kyle is definitely in the equation."

Tebow started the last three games of the season. When the season ended Orton, who has a year remaining on his contract, said he did not want to return to the Broncos unless it was at the team's starting quarterback.

Since then the belief in and around the Broncos was that Orton would be traded to clear the decks for Tebow as the team's long-term starter. However, Elway said neither he nor head coach John Fox, has made that decision.

"Now that the staff's in there, we've got to start getting into free agency and all that stuff and we have a chance to really evaluate them," Elway said.

"It's not a foregone conclusion that we're going to trade Kyle Orton. At all. We still have to evaluate that. A lot of people think it's an automatic, but it's not."

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_17272243

Taco John
07-20-2011, 10:57 AM
I personally wish it were far fetched, but I would not be surprised to learn that the OP is right, and Elway is still angling for Luck, seeing Tebow as a bridge to get there.

As much as I love Tebow, I'm not taking it for granted that Elway shares my feelings.

And that's not saying that the OP is absolutely right - but the narrative is consistent.

Beantown Bronco
07-20-2011, 11:05 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_17272243

Weird, cause I read these quotes as the polar opposite of the narrative in the original post.

Chris
07-20-2011, 11:08 AM
So basically we're holding on to Orton in the event that no one gives us a decent deal. It's a possibility, but unlikely.

razorwire77
07-20-2011, 11:12 AM
Smokescreen. I'd bet the farm that Orton gets traded within 48 hours FA. It's not like Elway is going to say, "well that Orton guy stands no chance of starting for us because our fan base will riot, he has a big ass contract and we'll basically take a Ford Festiva in trade for him."

Vegas_Bronco
07-20-2011, 11:15 AM
If the strategy were to lose tebow and orton for a #1 I think we could easily get that in trade or....keep both and put orton as starter and tebow at RB....either one is a better solution than the OP...I laffed and put on my lions hat.

Taco John
07-20-2011, 11:16 AM
Weird, cause I read these quotes as the polar opposite of the narrative in the original post.

Huh, that's strange. I don't see how that's possible, but humans are interesting creatures.

snowspot66
07-20-2011, 11:18 AM
So let me get this straight. According to this source we hired John Fox, a defensive minded HC, to ensure that Tebow fails. Then we plan to draft a new rookie QB in Luck.

...And have him coached by John Fox...The guy we hired to intentionally sink Tim Tebow....

I must be missing a key part of this master plan.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-20-2011, 11:23 AM
The idea that the Broncos are tanking the season to get luck is ABSURD. 100 percent.

Jay3
07-20-2011, 11:23 AM
I think the "inside information" poster is someone having flop sweat about all the dire predictions he made about Tebow, so this is designed to explain away why the franchise is going with Tebow (in case that happens).

Shananahan
07-20-2011, 11:26 AM
I'm not saying that it's absolutely true - I have no way of knowing that - but I will say you haven't been paying attention if you think it's all that far-fetched.
What kind of crack are you smoking? I've been paying close attention, and the scenario outlined in the original post and considered 'consistent' by you with the way things have been handled is the one of the most idiotic, far-fetched and ridiculous things I've seen in the last few days. The part about Fox's credential's made me laugh out loud.

You're saying the idea that Elway has an over-arching plan to draft #1 overall in 2012, and Tim Tebow and John Fox are both key pieces in that plan, is not far-fetched? That John Fox was hired not because he took a team to the Super Bowl only years after being hired, but because he took a team to the worst record in football the year before being fired is not far-fetched? That Tim Tebow, the second-year first-round pick adored by media and fans alike, is Elway's key instrument to drafting #1 overall before being discarded at the end of the year in favor of Luck isn't far-fetched? Gimme a break, dude. All of that is pretty far-fuccing-fetched.

Taco John
07-20-2011, 11:27 AM
The idea that the Broncos are tanking the season to get luck is ABSURD. 100 percent.

I don't think anybody said, or even inferred that.

Shananahan
07-20-2011, 11:28 AM
It just occurred to me that Taco might be trolling.

If that's the case, nice job. You got me.

Taco John
07-20-2011, 11:29 AM
What kind of crack are you smoking? I've been paying close attention, and the scenario outlined in the original post and considered 'consistent' by you with the way things have been handled is the one of the most idiotic, far-fetched and ridiculous things I've seen in the last few days. The part about Fox's credential's made me laugh out loud.

You're saying the idea that Elway has an over-arching plan to draft #1 overall in 2012, and Tim Tebow and John Fox are both key pieces in that plan, is not far-fetched? That John Fox was hired not because he took a team to the Super Bowl only years after being hired, but because he took a team to the worst record in football the year before being fired is not far-fetched? That Tim Tebow, the second-year first-round pick adored by media and fans alike, is Elway's key instrument to drafting #1 overall before being discarded at the end of the year in favor of Luck isn't far-fetched? Gimme a break, dude. All of that is pretty far-fuccing-fetched.


I think it's clear that Elway values Luck over Tebow, and that any success that Tebow has in the next year could be used as part of a deal to move up to that #1 spot. I think you'd have to be kidding yourself not to see this as a distinct possibility given the way Elway has talked about both Tebow and Luck.

Taco John
07-20-2011, 11:32 AM
So let me get this straight. According to this source we hired John Fox, a defensive minded HC, to ensure that Tebow fails. Then we plan to draft a new rookie QB in Luck.

...And have him coached by John Fox...The guy we hired to intentionally sink Tim Tebow....

I must be missing a key part of this master plan.


Wow. That's your idea of "getting this straight?"

I get it. People don't want to talk about the possibility that Tebow isn't secure in his job here. So instead of posting ridiculous jumps and stuffing strawmen to distract the discussion, why not just open a different thread?

Taco John
07-20-2011, 11:34 AM
It just occurred to me that Taco might be trolling.

If that's the case, nice job. You got me.

I'm not trolling at all. I'm not taking anything for granted here. I love Tebow, but it's been made more than abundantly clear that Elway doesn't share my sentiments about him.

Jay3
07-20-2011, 11:34 AM
Nobody wants to willingly preside over the downfall of Tebow. It's like shooting Ol' Yeller.

Shananahan
07-20-2011, 11:35 AM
I think it's clear that Elway values Luck over Tebow, and that any success that Tebow has in the next year could be used as part of a deal to move up to that #1 spot. I think you'd have to be kidding yourself not to see this as a distinct possibility given the way Elway has talked about Tebow.
Yes, all of that is probably true. Everybody values Luck over Tebow at this point. But what you just stated is not the same thing as what the original post predicted.

Apparently Elway doesn't want Tebow to have success so he can trade him, he wants him to fail miserably so that Denver has the worst record in football and fans grow weary of him. After all, that's why he hired a coach with so much experience in drafting number one! And when it's all said and done and Denver is in shambles and starting all over again with a new coach (because they won't need Fox anymore as they will actually want to win after this season), Elway will appear before the press and say, "Tada! I did it! I lost all those games on purpose just to draft Andrew Luck! Don't you think I'm a great GM?"

Rulon Velvet Jones
07-20-2011, 11:35 AM
Was that translated from Chinese?

schaaf
07-20-2011, 11:36 AM
Smokescreen. I'd bet the farm that Orton gets traded within 48 hours FA. It's not like Elway is going to say, "well that Orton guy stands no chance of starting for us because our fan base will riot, he has a big ass contract and we'll basically take a Ford Festiva in trade for him."

in ford's defense.... Festivas know how to reel in the pussy

Taco John
07-20-2011, 11:37 AM
Apparently Elway doesn't want Tebow to have success so he can trade him, he wants him to fail miserably so that Denver has the worst record in football and fans grow weary of him.

Sorry, but you need to go back and actually read it with your head and not with your emotions. What you have just stated is a twisted misinterpretation of what the OP says. Any success that Tebow has would make his trade value that much higher. Believing that Tebow is going to have a hard time making the adjustment to the pro game is not the same thing as "wanting him to fail miserably."

WolfpackGuy
07-20-2011, 11:38 AM
The only thing I chose to learn from McClueless' tenure was that ANYTHING can happen.

snowspot66
07-20-2011, 11:41 AM
Wow. That's your idea of "getting this straight?"

I get it. People don't want to talk about the possibility that Tebow isn't secure in his job here. So instead of posting ridiculous jumps and stuffing strawmen to distract the discussion, why not just open a different thread?

Sorry but you're sounding like gaffney in this thread if you honestly believe the OP is correct.

It is DEFINITELY possible Tebow could fail and we draft Luck. It is ABSURD to think that Elway is making his coaching and player selections specifically to ensure that Tebow fails and he gets to draft Luck. That's insane and anybody making that claim should be ridiculed.

Why not take it a step further. If the original premise is true then we can expect Fox to be fired after next year if we do get Luck because going by the original premise Fox was brought in to intentionally ruin a young QB's development.

Shananahan
07-20-2011, 11:48 AM
Why not take it a step further. If the original premise is true then we can expect Fox to be fired after next year if we do get Luck because going by the original premise Fox was brought in to intentionally ruin a young QB's development.
Well yeah, obviously. Anybody who thinks that's far-fetched hasn't been paying attention.

Although I could see Elway keeping him around for another year or so in order to ensure that Denver is drafting high enough to get Luck some quality weapons.

That One Guy
07-20-2011, 11:53 AM
I don't think anybody said, or even inferred that.

I very much think it was implied that the scheme was to tank this season.


Tebow:

Denver Broncos insiders indicated that Football Czar, and former Bronco great, John Elway's view of Tim Tebow is not as the team's future; but rather as the middle path. Souces say that Mr. Elway believes starting Tebow this season is the best path to the future and also a win-win for the Denver Broncos. It's a strategy of short-term pain for long-term dominance brought by stirring the team in position for 1st overall draft pick draft in 2012. Thus drafting Andrew Luck is Denver’s best option to right the ship. The chances that Tebow fails to adjust to the NFL game, and the team vies for the 1st overall draft pick is very good. Mr. Elway even hired John Fox as the coach to better the odds. Although a Mr. Fox is a successful coach in his own right, his strong points do not entail, nor does the aging coach have the desire to have, a raw rookie QB as a leader of his team. He has also coached teams to the No. 1 pick overall before. Mr. Elway believes that fans will grow tired of Tebow as the losing sets in and supplanting him in 2012 will be a much smoother transition. On the flip side, to complete the win-win, should Tebow play well, his popularity and hype will garner a lot of interest to the team and increase the value of the franchise. The team may not vie for championships, but business will be good.


Stay tuned for more insider info as it comes. As we get closer and closer to a deal, and free-agency, there’s going to be a lot of misinformation flying from all directions. Reliable information will be at a premium. And there is no more reliable than insider information.

The bold says that they don't believe Tebow will adjust and they specifically brought in Fox to ensure that ("Mr. Elway even hired John Fox as the coach to better the odds.")

Then it goes on to explain that Fox doesn't have experience nor desire to have a raw rookie QB. They think the losing will cause the fans to turn on him and then they can get the #1 by ensuring Tebow sucks.

Then they go on to explain the if he does well theories.

Shananahan
07-20-2011, 11:53 AM
Sorry, but you need to go back and actually read it with your head and not with your emotions. What you have just stated is a twisted misinterpretation of what the OP says. Any success that Tebow has would make his trade value that much higher. Believing that Tebow is going to have a hard time making the adjustment to the pro game is not the same thing as "wanting him to fail miserably."
Ok, I read it with my head again. Explain to me how 'Mr. Elway believes that fans will grow tired of Tebow as the losing sets in and supplanting him in 2012 will be a much smoother transition' indicates any sort of success on Tebow's part. Explain to me how 'It's a strategy of short-term pain' and 'The chances that Tebow fails to adjust to the NFL game, and the team vies for the 1st overall draft pick is very good' indicates that Elway's plan is to watch Tebow succeed and then trade him.

I don't think I twisted or misinterpreted anything from the original post, and it was even more far-fetched and retarded the second time through.

Taco John
07-20-2011, 11:55 AM
Sorry but you're sounding like gaffney in this thread if you honestly believe the OP is correct.

Whatever. I don't care what anybody thinks about what I think. Most people don't read between the lines of things that football executives say and take everything for face value.

I don't know if the OP is correct, but what I do know is that it fits the narrative. Elway has been lukewarm on Tebow AT BEST. He's hired a defensive coordinator, and kept the OC from the McDaniels tenure. That's not to say that he's "hoping for Tebow to fail" or even purposefully positioning as such. But it does show that he's not necessarily putting much of an investment in his early success. But, I welcome the opportunity for someone to prove me wrong and list all of the support that Tebow is getting from the front office.

It is DEFINITELY possible Tebow could fail and we draft Luck. It is ABSURD to think that Elway is making his coaching and player selections specifically to ensure that Tebow fails and he gets to draft Luck. That's insane and anybody making that claim should be ridiculed.

I don't think that you are reading this right. Of course Elway isn't making coaching and player selections with the specific idea to ensure that Tebow fails. But it's been made clear by Elway himself that he doesn't view Tebow in the same light that the fanbase views him, and like I said in the previous point, I welcome anybody to point out all the support that the front office has provided to ensure that Tebow has all the tools needed to succeed.


Why not take it a step further. If the original premise is true then we can expect Fox to be fired after next year if we do get Luck because going by the original premise Fox was brought in to intentionally ruin a young QB's development.

I think people have jumped to the furthest reaching conclusions when they say that the premise behind hiring Fox was to intentionally ruin Tebow's development. Fox was hired because he was the best coach available to the Broncos, and the team needs some stability on defense. That said, it's not an insignificant point to note that we don't have anyone on our team who is known for developing young QB talent. Mike McCoy's resume includes Delhomme, David Carr, Matt Moore and Vinny Testaverde.

I don't think Elway is "purposefully setting Tebow up for failure" as people here have been quick to jump to this extreme. But I don't necessarily believe he's put a whole lot of resources into setting Tebow up for success either. It would not surprise me to learn that Elway plans on trading Tebow after this season, success or failure, and do whatever he could to get Andrew Luck.

ghostofjosh
07-20-2011, 11:56 AM
The "we're back!" thread where he guaranteed the CBA would be finished within 72 hours a month ago?

the framework of the deal was in place obviously something snagged along the way...either way good to see football back,and i still stand behind my source,name me 1 reporter that nailed 100 % and ill apoligize

Shananahan
07-20-2011, 11:58 AM
I don't think Elway is "purposefully setting Tebow up for failure" as people here have been quick to jump to this extreme.
It happened so quick it was the first post in the thread!

CEH
07-20-2011, 12:05 PM
I think it's clear that Elway values Luck over Tebow, and that any success that Tebow has in the next year could be used as part of a deal to move up to that #1 spot. I think you'd have to be kidding yourself not to see this as a distinct possibility given the way Elway has talked about both Tebow and Luck.

How much success must Tebow have in order for Elway not to trade him? On the contrary, how little succcess must Tebow have in order to still have value in a trade? What is your definition of success? and doesn't that seem arbitary to come up with something. To me Tebow either is the QB of the Broncos or we move on. This hope that Tebow has trade value seems a flawed way to design a goal for your football team

Taco John
07-20-2011, 12:09 PM
Ok, I read it with my head again. Explain to me how 'Mr. Elway believes that fans will grow tired of Tebow as the losing sets in and supplanting him in 2012 will be a much smoother transition' indicates any sort of success on Tebow's part. Explain to me how 'It's a strategy of short-term pain' and 'The chances that Tebow fails to adjust to the NFL game, and the team vies for the 1st overall draft pick is very good' indicates that Elway's plan is to watch Tebow succeed and then trade him.

I don't think I twisted or misinterpreted anything from the original post, and it was even more far-fetched and retarded the second time through.

I started to type out a point for point reply to this, but this way would be much easier: Do you believe at this moment that John Elway would rather have Tim Tebow or Andrew Luck as his starting quarterback in 2012?

Shananahan
07-20-2011, 12:13 PM
I started to type out a point for point reply to this, but this way would be much easier: Do you believe at this moment that John Elway would rather have Tim Tebow or Andrew Luck as his starting quarterback in 2012?
I already answered that question, but the answer and the question itself has nothing to do with the validity of the scenario outlined in the original post, which you defended for some reason.

It's one thing to say that Elway will be OK with losing more games than anyone else because then he will be able to draft Andrew Luck and figure out what to do with Tebow (which obviously would happen after such a losing season). It's a totally different thing to say that Elway is actively trying to lose more games than anyone else in order to draft Andrew Luck.

Pony Boy
07-20-2011, 12:19 PM
I think everyone needs a little shot in the arm..... it's all good.

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Dagmar
07-20-2011, 12:20 PM
Whatever. I don't care what anybody thinks about what I think. Most people don't read between the lines of things that football executives say and take everything for face value.

I don't know if the OP is correct, but what I do know is that it fits the narrative. Elway has been lukewarm on Tebow AT BEST. He's hired a defensive coordinator, and kept the OC from the McDaniels tenure. That's not to say that he's "hoping for Tebow to fail" or even purposefully positioning as such. But it does show that he's not necessarily putting much of an investment in his early success. But, I welcome the opportunity for someone to prove me wrong and list all of the support that Tebow is getting from the front office.



Don't you think keeping the OC from McD's tenure would help Tebow more than hinder him? A new O in a lockout year for Tebow would be more of a hinderance. And it wasn't like Tebow failed to put up big points and numbers in his 3 games in this O.

Dagmar
07-20-2011, 12:22 PM
I think everyone needs a little shot in the arm..... it's all good.

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uO3jF6p_2aU?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uO3jF6p_2aU?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

"This is nothing but a called play!" Ha! Oops.

Taco John
07-20-2011, 12:24 PM
I already answered that question....

So the answer is that you believe Elway would rather have Andrew Luck as his starting quarterback in 2012?


It's one thing to say that Elway will be OK with losing more games than anyone else because then he will be able to draft Andrew Luck and figure out what to do with Tebow (which obviously would happen after such a losing season). It's a totally different thing to say that Elway is actively trying to lose more games than anyone else in order to draft Andrew Luck.

I don't believe Elway is "purposefully" trying to lose games in order to draft Andrew Luck. I do believe Elway is a realist. We're a team in transition that has probably been the most seriously impacted by the lockout because of how far behind we are in being able to effectively make that transition. Nobody, least of all Elway, is expecting this team to compete for a division title, let alone a Superbowl.

So that being the reality - which we both can agree on, no? Where does that put someone with the decision-making power of Elway.

1. You're lukewarm at best on Tebow.
2. You expect to have a tough season with a lot of losses just due to the nature of your transition, and the way it's been affected by the lockout.
3. Andrew Luck, who you are high on (and probably had much contact with due to being an alum of the school he plays for) is coming out of the draft next year and you'll probably be in the top 10 with an opportunity to trade up to get him using Tebow as trade bait.

I think Elway absolutely wants Tebow to succeed. The more success Tebow has, the better his trade value. And should Tebow absolutely blow Elway away, all the better.

I don't think Elway is purposefully angling to lose - I think that's ridiculous. I do believe that Elway wants Luck, and believes that Tebow is going to have a tough transition to the NFL game over a 16 game season. And I do believe that no matter what, there will be some polarization that happens around Tebow due to all the dynamics mentioned here, and the fact that trading him for Andrew Luck will be viably speculative until Luck is finally off the draft board.

DBroncos4life
07-20-2011, 12:25 PM
Randy Starks plus a pick for Orton done deal.

Taco John
07-20-2011, 12:26 PM
Don't you think keeping the OC from McD's tenure would help Tebow more than hinder him? A new O in a lockout year for Tebow would be more of a hinderance. And it wasn't like Tebow failed to put up big points and numbers in his 3 games in this O.

Prior to his time with the Broncos, Mike McCoy's resume is limited Jake Delhomme, David Carr, Matt Moore and Vinny Testaverde. I think it's reasonable to believe that the continuity of Mike McCoy would help Tebow. But I don't think McCoy is going to do or be for Tebow what Shanahan was to a young Elway so many years ago.

DBroncos4life
07-20-2011, 12:26 PM
I think everyone needs a little shot in the arm..... it's all good.

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uO3jF6p_2aU?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uO3jF6p_2aU?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

More proof that the SEC is way better then the NFL.

Shananahan
07-20-2011, 12:34 PM
I don't think Elway is purposefully angling to lose - I think that's ridiculous.
Uuhhhh.....

It's a strategy of short-term pain for long-term dominance brought by stirring the team in position for 1st overall draft pick draft in 2012. Thus drafting Andrew Luck is Denver’s best option to right the ship. The chances that Tebow fails to adjust to the NFL game, and the team vies for the 1st overall draft pick is very good. Mr. Elway even hired John Fox as the coach to better the odds.
I'm not saying that it's absolutely true - I have no way of knowing that - but I will say you haven't been paying attention if you think it's all that far-fetched.

So.... which is it? Ridiculous, or not all that far-fetched?

Shananahan
07-20-2011, 12:37 PM
I mean basically I think you just agreed with me, Taco.

The original post is far-far-far-far-fetched and ridiculous, and Elway isn't trying to lose any games on purpose or doing anything to ensure the failure of his head coach and quarterback.

serious hops
07-20-2011, 12:39 PM
Clearly, this is a joke. If they wanted to intentionally torpedo the franchise, they would have kept McDaniels another season.

ghostofjosh
07-20-2011, 12:42 PM
Clearly, this is a joke. If they wanted to intentionally torpedo the franchise, they would have kept McDaniels another season.

this

Taco John
07-20-2011, 12:50 PM
So.... which is it? Ridiculous, or not all that far-fetched?

I think you're getting hung up by the OPs interpretations (particularly regarding the hiring of Fox), rather than just looking objectively at the facts. But even then, I welcome anybody to point out all the support that the front office has provided to ensure that Tebow has all the tools needed to succeed.

Shananahan
07-20-2011, 12:54 PM
I think you're getting hung up by the OPs interpretations (particularly regarding the hiring of Fox), rather than just looking objectively at the facts.
How am I getting 'hung up' on them when they're the topic of discussion?

Man-Goblin
07-20-2011, 12:58 PM
Tebow:

Denver Broncos insiders indicated that Football Czar, and former Bronco great, John Elway's view of Tim Tebow is not as the team's future; but rather as the middle path. Souces say that Mr. Elway believes starting Tebow this season is the best path to the future and also a win-win for the Denver Broncos. It's a strategy of short-term pain for long-term dominance brought by stirring the team in position for 1st overall draft pick draft in 2012.

I love this plan! It's almost like the script to the first 'Major League' movie, except instead of moving the Indians to Miami, the Broncos get to draft Andrew Luck!

I wonder if Elway will take away the team charter and make the team ride on a bus to road games....hmmm.

worm
07-20-2011, 01:41 PM
I love this plan! It's almost like the script to the first 'Major League' movie, except instead of moving the Indians to Miami, the Broncos get to draft Andrew Luck!

I wonder if Elway will take away the team charter and make the team ride on a bus to road games....hmmm.

Hopefully the cardboard figure that will be stripped for every win won't be Bowlen, Elway or Xanders likeness.

TheReverend
07-20-2011, 01:41 PM
Hopefully the cardboard figure that will be stripped for every win won't be Bowlen, Elway or Xanders likeness.

Annabel, duh

BroncoMan4ever
07-20-2011, 01:56 PM
this is one of the dumbest things i have read on here recently. i mean seriously the OP, makes it seem like Fox was hired so the team will suck since he has taken a team to the number 1 overall pick. and that John is hoping this team sucks so it gets the number 1 pick so he can get Luck.

it doesn't point out that the season Fox led his team to the number 1 overall pick was in the year that his owner gutted the team to prep for the lockout and he was in the final year of his deal and was basically acting as a placeholder HC for a season.

also, i do believe the team is unsure of Tim, but they are not actively rooting for him to fail. the plan is to play him and if he shows he is a guy to build around then great the team moves on with Tim leading the way, but if Tim fails then the team will suck and is in position for Luck or Barkley next April.

StugotsIII
07-20-2011, 01:59 PM
Is there a place to get actual insider information?


If so...where?

CEH
07-20-2011, 02:07 PM
Just like how EFX brought in QBs to get a team like SF to bite on Capernick and recoup some of those lost picks Orton's trade value is at question right now so why come out and tell the world what is happening.

Deep down Fox knows who is #1 going into camp. My guess is they want Tebow to succeed drafting #1 be damned

Way to many variables to try and hope the team is in a position to draft Luck.

That One Guy
07-20-2011, 02:10 PM
Is there a place to get actual insider information?


If so...where?

Is two solid nuggets from your fellow Maners not enough?

We're getting greedy these days.

jhns
07-20-2011, 02:12 PM
Is there a place to get actual insider information?


If so...where?

Start sleeping with Bowlen.

BroncoInferno
07-20-2011, 02:15 PM
I think you're getting hung up by the OPs interpretations (particularly regarding the hiring of Fox), rather than just looking objectively at the facts. But even then, I welcome anybody to point out all the support that the front office has provided to ensure that Tebow has all the tools needed to succeed.

I don't think anyone believes it's far-fetched that Elway may be lukewarm on Tebow, and that he's thinking along the lines of throwing him to the wolves. If he succeeds, great...if not, we may be in position to draft Luck.

But the notion that Elway would trade Tebow EVEN IF HE'S SUCCESSFUL is beyond ludicrous. Someone else already asked you these questions, but you ignored them: 1) How do you define success? 2) How successful would Tebow have to be to rule out a trade? 3) How little success could he have while still maintaining trade value?

It seems to me that if Tebow has a successful 2011 (depending on how you define success), it is not very likely that we will be in any reasonable position to make a move for Luck. I just find it hard to believe that Elway has hatched some master plan to get his hands on Luck at all costs. There are so many unknown variables in pulling that off that Elway would deserved to be fired and locked in a nuthouse if it's something he's planning on.

bombay
07-20-2011, 02:20 PM
Frankly, I think that the narrative that the OP paints is consistent with the way the new regime has handled Tebow to date. I'm not saying that it's absolutely true - I have no way of knowing that - but I will say you haven't been paying attention if you think it's all that far-fetched.

I agree. Don't think Elway has much belief in Tebow, but starting him offers the course of least resistance. He's doing what the majority of the fan base seems to want, so it will keep interest alive for at least most of the season. If he wins, great, and if he falls on his face we'll be in a good position to shoot for the Luck pick.

bombay
07-20-2011, 02:23 PM
Sorry, but you need to go back and actually read it with your head and not with your emotions. What you have just stated is a twisted misinterpretation of what the OP says. Any success that Tebow has would make his trade value that much higher. is no Believing that Tebow is going to have a hard time making the adjustment to the pro game t the same thing as "wanting him to fail miserably."

It is to the Tebowites, who are ready to put him in the Hall.

FireFly
07-20-2011, 02:31 PM
I think the information re: coaching the team for the 1st pick is absolute GARBAGE.

We're going to play to win.

razorwire77
07-20-2011, 02:38 PM
I love this plan! It's almost like the script to the first 'Major League' movie, except instead of moving the Indians to Miami, the Broncos get to draft Andrew Luck!

I wonder if Elway will take away the team charter and make the team ride on a bus to road games....hmmm.

Hilarious!

Maybe John Fox will stage a rebellion against the evil Elway's plans and create a life size cutout of his wife. With each step towards the Superbowl, an article of clothing comes off!

BroncoMan4ever
07-20-2011, 02:39 PM
Just like how EFX brought in QBs to get a team like SF to bite on Capernick and recoup some of those lost picks Orton's trade value is at question right now so why come out and tell the world what is happening.

Deep down Fox knows who is #1 going into camp. My guess is they want Tebow to succeed drafting #1 be damned

Way to many variables to try and hope the team is in a position to draft Luck.

not only that, but you are also betting a lot on hoping Tebow is so bad the team gets the number 1 overall pick, and that the draft picks, upcoming FA, and new staff have so little or so poor of an impact that the team doesn't improve at all and in fact gets worse to get the number 1 overall pick. and then you are praying that Luck doesn't suffer an injury. as well as hoping other bad teams get better than Denver

there are too many possible variables that would need to happen perfectly for the OP thoughts on Elway to be true.

BroncoMan4ever
07-20-2011, 02:54 PM
Hilarious!

Maybe John Fox will stage a rebellion against the evil Elway's plans and create a life size cutout of his wife. With each step towards the Superbowl, an article of clothing comes off!

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nMCaHxZuf94" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Taco John
07-20-2011, 03:03 PM
But the notion that Elway would trade Tebow EVEN IF HE'S SUCCESSFUL is beyond ludicrous.

I don't think it's ludicrous at all. Don't get my wrong - I'm not saying it's guaranteed that Elway is going to trade Tebow no matter what. Who could know that but Elway? He probably doesn't even know that. I'm merely talking about probabilities and projections. I think it's highly probable that Elway would like to acquire Luck. I also think it's highly probable that this team - including Tebow - is going to struggle this season.

I think if you asked Elway in confidence 10 out of 10 times on 10 different days who he would rather have, Tebow or Andrew Luck, he'd answer Andrew Luck. I don't think that answer is going to change in one season. I think Elway will be diplomatic when faced with the queries, but at the end of this season, regardless of how well Tebow plays, I would bet that Elway would still prefer to have Andrew Luck.


Someone else already asked you these questions, but you ignored them: 1) How do you define success? 2) How successful would Tebow have to be to rule out a trade? 3) How little success could he have while still maintaining trade value?

What does it matter how I define success. I'm not sure what value that question has in the first place. If at the end of the season, Elway still believes that Andrew Luck is the better option, the definition of success will only matter in terms of trade value. How successful would Tebow have to be to rule out a trade? How could anybody answer that question? I can tell you that Elway would have taken Andrew Luck if given the option this past draft:

Even if the Broncos do land the No. 1 overall pick, they would have to then decide whether Tim Tebow , a first-round pick in April, is their quarterback of the future, or if they would draft the more passing polished Luck.

Elway was asked as a Broncos' fan, not an executive, what he would do if such a scenario were presented.

"That's a big question," Elway said on his radio show. "I'll tell you this: I think Andrew Luck is the best football player in the draft, without a doubt. If that were to happen, then you're going have to have some very serious conversations of exactly which direction you want to go, whether it's with Tim or take a guy like Andrew Luck. To me, barring injury, he's going to be very successful in the NFL." Source: http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16937541


It seems to me that if Tebow has a successful 2011 (depending on how you define success), it is not very likely that we will be in any reasonable position to make a move for Luck. I just find it hard to believe that Elway has hatched some master plan to get his hands on Luck at all costs. There are so many unknown variables in pulling that off that Elway would deserved to be fired and locked in a nuthouse if it's something he's planning on.

I don't know that Elway has "hatched a master plan to get his hands on Luck at all costs." What I do know is that Elway is a very intelligent, forward-looking guy who is going to do everything he can to ensure that the Broncos get back to the Superbowl. I don't think it's escaped his view that Andrew Luck is coming out of the draft next season - and I'd go so far as to say that his comments to date on Tebow reflect as much.

StugotsIII
07-20-2011, 03:05 PM
Is two solid nuggets from your fellow Maners not enough?

We're getting greedy these days.


What nuggets are those?


Not being a jerk...I just don't know how legit anything on here is, or who is someone to be listened to.

BroncoBuff
07-20-2011, 03:09 PM
I like the Orton trade ... if Tebow's gonna get a real shot, Orton's gotta go.

Ol' "Tommy Touchdown" Brandstater is a Dolphin now too.

Taco John
07-20-2011, 03:10 PM
I agree. Don't think Elway has much belief in Tebow, but starting him offers the course of least resistance. He's doing what the majority of the fan base seems to want, so it will keep interest alive for at least most of the season. If he wins, great, and if he falls on his face we'll be in a good position to shoot for the Luck pick.

That's the way I see it. I don't see this as Elway plotting ways for us to lose. I think he is realistic and knows that the odds are against us due to the transition and the way that the lockout has affected that transition. Starting Orton would make his job infinitely more hard, because win or lose, the Tim Tebow question still hangs over his head. Starting Tebow, whether he's ready or not, gives him an opportunity to establish Tebow's value and then decide where to go next with that information.

Also consider that the other worst team in the league right now happens to be Carolina. The lockout puts them in pretty bad shape as well. Their season passes would sell out overnight with Tim Tebow at quarterback year after year, win or lose.

And I'm not saying I want this to happen. I'm just saying that I see this as a distinct possibility.

Shananahan
07-20-2011, 03:18 PM
Also consider that the other worst team in the league right now happens to be Carolina. The lockout puts them in pretty bad shape as well. Their season passes would sell out overnight with Tim Tebow at quarterback year after year, win or lose.
You mean the team that just drafted Cam Newton #1 overall?

Los Broncos
07-20-2011, 03:20 PM
Orton for a Diet Pepsi machine.

Taco John
07-20-2011, 03:42 PM
You mean the team that just drafted Cam Newton #1 overall?

Ah, that's right... Brain fart.

BroncoBuff
07-20-2011, 03:46 PM
Basic flaw in the article is the silly Luck scenario ... you simply cannot 'plan on' or 'go after' the #1 pick.

Jay3
07-20-2011, 03:51 PM
By the way, this is slightly off-topic, but Luck can bite me. I've never heard so much "can't miss" talk in my life. Guy's almost guaranteed to fail just from Murphy's Law alone.

Jesterhole
07-20-2011, 03:52 PM
Yeah, Elways is going to start Tebow in hopes of sinking the team...perfect sense...

cmhargrove
07-20-2011, 03:58 PM
By the way, this is slightly off-topic, but Luck can bite me. I've never heard so much "can't miss" talk in my life. Guy's almost guaranteed to fail just from Murphy's Law alone.

Bing, bing, bing.... We have a winner. Luck might be in for a rough ride losing his head coach and 3 of his 5 O-line starters from 2010. He will surely be a first rounder, but he could experience a drop down to the 15-25 range if he has some weaknesses exposed this year.

Taco John
07-20-2011, 04:06 PM
Bing, bing, bing.... We have a winner. Luck might be in for a rough ride losing his head coach and 3 of his 5 O-line starters from 2010. He will surely be a first rounder, but he could experience a drop down to the 15-25 range if he has some weaknesses exposed this year.


Knowing he was going to lose his coach and 3 of his 5 Oline starters, I wonder what would cause Luck to want to stay another year knowing that it could only hurt his value. That's a strange decision for him to make.

RhymesayersDU
07-20-2011, 04:51 PM
Yeah, Elways is going to start Tebow in hopes of sinking the team...perfect sense...

Nobody is saying Elway is sinking the team on purpose.

But the fact is, Orton isn't taking us anywhere. If Tebow starts and shines, then awesome, we have our QB of the future. If he doesn't shine, there's a QB we can take next year.

It's not about tanking per se, it's about options. Orton provides us none, while Tebow (win or lose) does.

cutthemdown
07-20-2011, 04:54 PM
Nobody is saying Elway is sinking the team on purpose.

But the fact is, Orton isn't taking us anywhere. If Tebow starts and shines, then awesome, we have our QB of the future. If he doesn't shine, there's a QB we can take next year.

It's not about tanking per se, it's about options. Orton provides us none, while Tebow (win or lose) does.

As bad as we were last yr we still didn't get first pick. I'd say the chances of us getting the first pick not all that great. Top 5 not bad, top 10 pretty good etc etc. It's Tebow for the Broncos. I doubt we take a QB next yr unless I guess we have first pick, which we won't. Broncos going to win 6 games this yr at least.

BroncoMan4ever
07-20-2011, 05:13 PM
Yeah, Elways is going to start Tebow in hopes of sinking the team...perfect sense...

although honestly if he really wanted the team to suck so bad they get Luck next year, he would have kept McDaniels around

ICON
07-20-2011, 06:17 PM
although honestly if he really wanted the team to suck so bad they get Luck next year, he would have kept McDaniels aroundIts easy to lose not win so i agree with you..

KipCorrington25
07-20-2011, 06:23 PM
Folks, if Elway wanted the number one pick in '12 he could have simply just brought McCheat back and given him control of talent, trades, coaching, hiring, firing, etc. :wiggle:

broncos-rock
07-20-2011, 09:34 PM
Start sleeping with Bowlen.

Good thing he wont remember!ROFL!

OABB
07-20-2011, 10:16 PM
Folks, if Elway wanted the number one pick in '12 he could have simply just brought McCheat back and given him control of talent, trades, coaching, hiring, firing, etc. :wiggle:

This was funnier two posts ago.

Lev Vyvanse
07-20-2011, 10:36 PM
By the way, this is slightly off-topic, but Luck can bite me. I've never heard so much "can't miss" talk in my life. Guy's almost guaranteed to fail just from Murphy's Law alone.

I have not watch him at all but he sounds like Locker 2.0.

BroncoMan4ever
07-21-2011, 12:07 AM
I have not watch him at all but he sounds like Locker 2.0.

agreed. too much hype surrounds him. just enough hype to make it that he comes in and ends up burning like Leaf.

Agamemnon
07-21-2011, 02:33 AM
First pick with Tebow as our starter? Seriously? No one who has a brain and saw the Houston game would ever think that Tebow is only good for 1 or 2 wins. Even if he has a crappy season statistically the guy is going to manage to win us some games because that's just what he does.

By the way, barring a complete implosion by Tebow, we have no business going after another QB rather than finally addressing our needs on the d-line.

Agamemnon
07-21-2011, 02:37 AM
I have not watch him at all but he sounds like Locker 2.0.

I think he's a much better passer than Locker ever was even when Locker was getting all the hype. But I do agree with your sentiment. People who act like Luck is a sure fire all-star QB are massively delusional. Such a thing simply doesn't exist. The leap between college QB and NFL QB is just too big and has too many variables.

cutthemdown
07-21-2011, 02:44 AM
People are crazy. Tebow already a media darling. The whole world is fixed! Nothing is real. Tebow will get all the calls, he will run, get tackled and they will throw a flag for hitting him in the head, even though it was Tebow he hit the defender in the head. He will get all the pass int calls, good spots, and he will be able to head bob all day with no call.

It is decided, so sayeth the sear so shall it be. All hail the Tebow!

Beantown Bronco
07-21-2011, 06:29 AM
By the way, this is slightly off-topic, but Luck can bite me. I've never heard so much "can't miss" talk in my life.

How did you miss the Patrick Peterson discussion just a few short months ago?

CEH
07-21-2011, 06:46 AM
I hear Elway fancies Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. I think we have a quote from Elway back in Dec 2010 about how good he thinks these guys are.
Dare I say better than Tebow? Connect the dots

Jay3
07-21-2011, 06:48 AM
How did you miss the Patrick Peterson discussion just a few short months ago?

I caught that, too. But at least Peterson plays a position that it is a little bit more predictable than QB.

QB is the most notoriously hard to evaluate position in the world. I can't even count how many stone cold locks have ended up in the wood chipper.

You'd think they would learn.

But I agreed Luck looks about as good as you can look under the circumstances. But this notion that he may as well just put on his Pro Bowl jersey right now is ludicrous.

Dedhed
07-21-2011, 06:50 AM
I don't think anybody said, or even inferred that.

Umm..what are you talking about?

oubronco
07-21-2011, 07:12 AM
I think he's a much better passer than Locker ever was even when Locker was getting all the hype. But I do agree with your sentiment. People who act like Luck is a sure fire all-star QB are massively delusional. Such a thing simply doesn't exist. The leap between college QB and NFL QB is just too big and has too many variables.

Jugghead Manning?

Cito Pelon
07-21-2011, 07:25 AM
Insiders have revealed the Denver Broncos’ 2011-12 strategy, and now I pass it on to you:

Orton:

. . . . . . . ..

I think someone is pulling our leg. This is totally made up, but well done!

vancejohnson82
07-21-2011, 08:10 AM
I read this thread while on the toilet and it felt appropriate

Kaylore
07-21-2011, 09:55 AM
I think someone is pulling our leg. This is totally made up, but well done!

Yeah I think VanceJohnson is right in that the "insiders" is a euphemism for poo. Either that or the guy with glasses who told Hotrod Chad Mustard was a big part of the offense.

EmpireOrange
07-21-2011, 12:25 PM
This is air tight information. It's so deep inside, that if I were to use it to trade stock with, I’d go to jail. That deep. It comes from long-time veteran foot soldiers of the organization. They are great Americans that, while we are all sitting on our tubby arses watching the game every sunday, they are endlessly out in the football univesre laying the groundwork and building Bronco teams for the future. Now, has someone taken some liberties in the presentation of such information as to help the audience fill-in the gaps or complete the story? Certainly someone has. But to not do so would simply be un-American. Spinning information to gussy up a story is simply the American-way.

Elway = Rachel Phelps

For those of you who picked that up, nice work! That was my spin - it's a great movie too. All kidding aside, it was simply spin and my spin alone. Mr. Elway would never actively work to lose on purpose. He loves the Broncos and loves winning too much. Mr. Elway is, however, also pragmatic forward-thinking CEO. He has a sophisticated vision of his own superbowl winning regime, and an astute plan to get there. These broncos are not his broncos, and he has even gone out and basically said that Champ Bailey was among the select FEW current players that could have started for the teams of the late nineties. Mr. Elway is NOT actively trying to lose; however, he has accepted the fact that in the near term this Broncos football team will indeed lose. And with the short-term losing, long term opportunities will present themselves. Therefore Mr. Elway has shrewdly diverted efforts from minimizing this year's losses, to focusing on maximax positioning in order to seize upon the opportunities that will come from it. And for those of you who think the Broncos are going to win more games than last year with Tebow, a new coach philosophy, a new defense scheme, and a modified offseason; you’re in the same boat as those who think Elway is not looking at Luck because he is wrapped in his Tebow-love blanket (see below).


Luck in the Draft:

For those of you who think that Elway isn’t looking at Luck in next year’s draft, you’ve simply walled yourself in a small dark room, covered your ears, and have been sing la-la-la to yourselves all this time. Tim Tebow was not Mr. Elway’s pick. He has already been on record stating that if the Broncos want to go where they want to go and IF Tebow wants to be the QB, he will have to deemphasize his strengths (i.e., play the game outside the pocket) and drastically improve his weaknesses (i.e., play in the pocket). Tebow has a long way to go and in this win-now NFL a short time to get there. Anderw Luck on the other hand, is John Elway’s type of QB. Many, including Mr. Elway himself, believe that Luck is one of the most polished college QB’s to come from the draft since Mr. Elway himself. And with the rash of QB’s that have come out of college and made serious impacts early (i.e. Roethlisberger, Ryan, Flacco, Stafford, etc.), Mr. Elway knows that drafting a polished QB tailor-made for the pro game can quickly put a franchise in the mix for playoff success. Mr. Elway IS looking at Luck, period.

John Fox:

Of course, Coach Fox wasn’t hired to torpedo the Broncos this year. That would be silly. But He was also not hired for the benefit of Tim Tebow, neither was he tasked with the development of ANY raw rookie QB. Fox was hired to cultivate a defensive pedigree that denver could live off of for well into the future. Whether he is the HC 1, 2 or 10 years from now is irrelevant; the Broncos want a defensive culture instilled that will be the mainstay of Broncos football for decades, a la Baltimore or Pittsburg. The development of Tebow was essentially relegated to Tebow himself. The Broncos are not doing him any favors; however, upon the Orton trade to Miami, Tebow will get his chance to imprint himself in Elway’s forward-leaning vision of the Denver Broncos. But he ill have to do it on his own before season’s end because come draft time, Elway is going for Luck.


Stay tuned for more blockbuster information.

DivineBronco
07-21-2011, 12:29 PM
This is air tight information. It's so deep inside, that if I were to use it to trade stock with, I’d go to jail. That deep. It comes from long-time veteran foot soldiers of the organization. They are great Americans that, while we are all sitting on our tubby arses watching the game every sunday, they are endlessly out in the football univesre laying the groundwork and building Bronco teams for the future. Now, has someone taken some liberties in the presentation of such information as to help the audience fill-in the gaps or complete the story? Certainly someone has. But to not do so would simply be un-American. Spinning information to gussy up a story is simply the American-way.

Elway = Rachel Phelps

For those of you who picked that up, nice work! That was my spin - it's a great movie too. All kidding aside, it was simply spin and my spin alone. Mr. Elway would never actively work to lose on purpose. He loves the Broncos and loves winning too much. Mr. Elway is, however, also pragmatic forward-thinking CEO. He has a sophisticated vision of his own superbowl winning regime, and an astute plan to get there. These broncos are not his broncos, and he has even gone out and basically said that Champ Bailey was among the select FEW current players that could have started for the teams of the late nineties. Mr. Elway is NOT actively trying to lose; however, he has accepted the fact that in the near term this Broncos football team will indeed lose. And with the short-term losing, long term opportunities will present themselves. Therefore Mr. Elway has shrewdly diverted efforts from minimizing this year's losses, to focusing on maximax positioning in order to seize upon the opportunities that will come from it. And for those of you who think the Broncos are going to win more games than last year with Tebow, a new coach philosophy, a new defense scheme, and a modified offseason; you’re in the same boat as those who think Elway is not looking at Luck because he is wrapped in his Tebow-love blanket (see below).


Luck in the Draft:

For those of you who think that Elway isn’t looking at Luck in next year’s draft, you’ve simply walled yourself in a small dark room, covered your ears, and have been sing la-la-la to yourselves all this time. Tim Tebow was not Mr. Elway’s pick. He has already been on record stating that if the Broncos want to go where they want to go and IF Tebow wants to be the QB, he will have to deemphasize his strengths (i.e., play the game outside the pocket) and drastically improve his weaknesses (i.e., play in the pocket). Tebow has a long way to go and in this win-now NFL a short time to get there. Anderw Luck on the other hand, is John Elway’s type of QB. Many, including Mr. Elway himself, believe that Luck is one of the most polished college QB’s to come from the draft since Mr. Elway himself. And with the rash of QB’s that have come out of college and made serious impacts early (i.e. Roethlisberger, Ryan, Flacco, Stafford, etc.), Mr. Elway knows that drafting a polished QB tailor-made for the pro game can quickly put a franchise in the mix for playoff success. Mr. Elway IS looking at Luck, period.

John Fox:

Of course, Coach Fox wasn’t hired to torpedo the Broncos this year. That would be silly. But He was also not hired for the benefit of Tim Tebow, neither was he tasked with the development of ANY raw rookie QB. Fox was hired to cultivate a defensive pedigree that denver could live off of for well into the future. Whether he is the HC 1, 2 or 10 years from now is irrelevant; the Broncos want a defensive culture instilled that will be the mainstay of Broncos football for decades, a la Baltimore or Pittsburg. The development of Tebow was essentially relegated to Tebow himself. The Broncos are not doing him any favors; however, upon the Orton trade to Miami, Tebow will get his chance to imprint himself in Elway’s forward-leaning vision of the Denver Broncos. But he ill have to do it on his own before season’s end because come draft time, Elway is going for Luck.


Stay tuned for more blockbuster information.

neat..........

Taco John
07-21-2011, 12:56 PM
I can't find anything there that I think is outrageous. It all rings true to me. It's bothered me a bit before you posted, because I've been watching and rewatching the Tim Tebow games from last season, and it dawned on me in mid-June as I was contemplating the fact that Tebow was missing minicamps - and I thought, "yeah, but he's got to be working with ________ on the side," and I came up with nobody. There is absolutely no investment that I can point to towards ensuring/maximizing the success of Tebow. It seems to be "alright, Tim - be who we need you to be, sink or swim."

snowspot66
07-21-2011, 01:28 PM
Stay tuned for more blockbuster information.

Of course Elway is looking at Luck. Tebow hasn't earned anything but a chance at this point in time. Of course the team hasn't helped Tebow. There's a lockout in effect remember?

This blockbuster information better be huge because this entire thread has brought nothing new to the table other than absurd conspiracy theories. Just the facts next time and none of this bull**** "spin".

On a separate topic I would bet we win more games than last year. Save your personal predictions of doom for the predictions threads and keep it out of "insider news".

rugbythug
07-21-2011, 02:37 PM
What's funny on this insider info is the fact that I posted it .predraft

Shananahan
07-21-2011, 02:55 PM
There is absolutely no investment that I can point to towards ensuring/maximizing the success of Tebow.
What did you have in mind?

Chris
07-21-2011, 02:59 PM
I can't find anything there that I think is outrageous. It all rings true to me. It's bothered me a bit before you posted, because I've been watching and rewatching the Tim Tebow games from last season, and it dawned on me in mid-June as I was contemplating the fact that Tebow was missing minicamps - and I thought, "yeah, but he's got to be working with ________ on the side," and I came up with nobody. There is absolutely no investment that I can point to towards ensuring/maximizing the success of Tebow. It seems to be "alright, Tim - be who we need you to be, sink or swim."

Mike Mccoy................... !Booya!

Taco John
07-21-2011, 03:00 PM
What did you have in mind?

I'm open minded. What would you say we have in place to develop Tebow, and give him the best opportunity to succeed? Mike McCoy is all I can come up with - and uh... Well...

snowspot66
07-21-2011, 03:04 PM
I'm open minded. What would you say we have in place to develop Tebow, and give him the best opportunity to succeed? Mike McCoy is all I can come up with - and uh... Well...

Well....we did just fire arguable the best QB guy in the league.

Shananahan
07-21-2011, 03:10 PM
I'm open minded. What would you say we have in place to develop Tebow, and give him the best opportunity to succeed? Mike McCoy is all I can come up with - and uh... Well...
Ok, so what would you have preferred they do? Draft A.J. Green and hold McDaniels hostage as a QB coach or something?

I'm seriously curious as to what Denver might have done that wouldn't have you jumping off the deep-end into the pool of believing that Elway and Co. are intentionally depriving Tebow and angling for Luck.

rbackfactory80
07-21-2011, 03:16 PM
Mr. Elway has a hard-on for Mr. Luck. That much is obvious.

Agamemnon
07-21-2011, 03:21 PM
Jugghead Manning?

The guy that many thought would be inferior to Ryan Leaf?

You can use hindsight and say that Manning was a sure thing, but when he was drafted he was just another unknown commodity who could go either way.

Agamemnon
07-21-2011, 03:23 PM
I'm open minded. What would you say we have in place to develop Tebow, and give him the best opportunity to succeed? Mike McCoy is all I can come up with - and uh... Well...

Tim Tebow is in place to develop Tim Tebow...

Chris
07-21-2011, 03:25 PM
Tim Tebow aka God is in place to develop Tim Tebow aka God...

Fixed that for ya.

Agamemnon
07-21-2011, 03:26 PM
I can't find anything there that I think is outrageous. It all rings true to me. It's bothered me a bit before you posted, because I've been watching and rewatching the Tim Tebow games from last season, and it dawned on me in mid-June as I was contemplating the fact that Tebow was missing minicamps - and I thought, "yeah, but he's got to be working with ________ on the side," and I came up with nobody. There is absolutely no investment that I can point to towards ensuring/maximizing the success of Tebow. It seems to be "alright, Tim - be who we need you to be, sink or swim."

It rings true that Elway (you know the guy that never gave up...ever) is pretty much writing the season off and looking forward to drafting Luck? Really?

Agamemnon
07-21-2011, 03:28 PM
Fixed that for ya.

Just saying that Tebow's drive and character mean a lot more than what coach is in place to "develop him". Anyone who coaches the QB position in the NFL knows enough about the position to teach him what he needs to know. The hard work all falls on him though, and that's one area no one can say he is lacking in.

cmhargrove
07-21-2011, 03:34 PM
Knowing he was going to lose his coach and 3 of his 5 Oline starters, I wonder what would cause Luck to want to stay another year knowing that it could only hurt his value. That's a strange decision for him to make.

The word was that a) Luck comes from a pretty well off family, and isn't really in financial need to begin with and b) He loves being at Stanford, and didn't want to jump into the rat race a year early.

It actually makes sense, and with the new slotted salaries, it won't be as big a loss (from pick #1, to pick 10-15). So, more power to him, he sounds like a good kid, but he might get tooled a little this year.

maher_tyler
07-21-2011, 03:38 PM
I don't believe anything they had to say about Tebow or Fox. I could see us getting a 3rd for Orton. What RB would Miami give us, Williams?? Pass!! Ronnie Brown is a FA. Exactly why i'll never pay for that "insider" crap!!

Agamemnon
07-21-2011, 03:58 PM
I don't believe anything they had to say about Tebow or Fox. I could see us getting a 3rd for Orton. What RB would Miami give us, Williams?? Pass!! Ronnie Brown is a FA. Exactly why i'll never pay for that "insider" crap!!

Patrick Cobbs?

Chris
07-21-2011, 04:09 PM
Just saying that Tebow's drive and character mean a lot more than what coach is in place to "develop him". Anyone who coaches the QB position in the NFL knows enough about the position to teach him what he needs to know. The hard work all falls on him though, and that's one area no one can say he is lacking in.

And I agree. He is his primary motivator and he has the resources to seek outside help if necessary (not sure if he contract barrs this).

Taco John
07-21-2011, 04:16 PM
Ok, so what would you have preferred they do? Draft A.J. Green and hold McDaniels hostage as a QB coach or something?

I'm seriously curious as to what Denver might have done that wouldn't have you jumping off the deep-end into the pool of believing that Elway and Co. are intentionally depriving Tebow and angling for Luck.


I don't know what I'd preferred they do. I'm not here to give a wishlist, I'm just looking at the facts as they are and trying to make sense of them. I'm a guy that looks forward and tries to discern what the current situation means for the future situation, so speculation like has been presented in this thread intrigues me because it underlines ideas that I've already had on my own.

The facts as I see them are as such - I would be happy to see any of them disputed:

1. Elway clearly is lukewarm on Tebow.
2. Elway clearly is enamored with Luck.
3. In all the hiring flurry that went on, no special attention was given towards the development of Tebow.
4. With the lockout, and given our current transition (which seems to be focused primarily on defense), it's hard to imagine us not being in the top 10 in next year's draft. Top 5 is even conceivable.

I suppose 4 is less a fact and more conjecture. So be it.

I also suppose that people would say that retaining Mike McCoy constitutes "special attention" given to Tebow - but given his lack of pedigree, I hardly see how. Josh McDaniels hired him as a junior playcaller - HE (McDaniels) was the quarterback coach. I would say that retaining McCoy was more to provide Fox with stability than Tebow, given that Fox had hired him once before.

As far as our offense is concerned, I don't see how anybody doesn't have the feeling that we're in no-man's land here. I mean, are we basically running the same offense that we had last year? I guess so. When I think about this offense and then I think about Elway - how would you look at this offense and this situation if you were Elway? Seriously? Elway has got to look at this offense and think "what an effing gimmicky joke!"

I think Elway is doing the best he can to disinvest the Broncos from the McDaniels era - not out of any spite for McDaniels (or anything like that), but because he's got his own vision about how a pro team should work, and he's going to do what he can to build the team in that vision. Given what we know about Elway, it's hard for me to imagine that the offense we are currently running has a long shelf life in Denver - that, of course, has implications for everyone involved - especially the quarterback. As much as I like Tebow, given all the factors, the deck seems stacked against him staying in Denver for an extended period of time.

RhymesayersDU
07-21-2011, 04:38 PM
4. With the lockout, and given our current transition (which seems to be focused primarily on defense), it's hard to imagine us not being in the top 10 in next year's draft. Top 5 is even conceivable.

And here's the biggest thing we'll argue over on this board. Optimists vs. Realists.

I agree with you, TJ. I see us being bad again. But the optimists will always talk themselves into 6 wins, 8 wins, 10 wins, etc.

And I'm not trying to bash people for being optimistic, but I just don't share the sentiment.

Shananahan
07-21-2011, 05:52 PM
3. In all the hiring flurry that went on, no special attention was given towards the development of Tebow.
I'll ask again: what exactly did you have in mind? Honestly I'm confused about what you think the team might have done to give him special attention outside of hiring a different QB coach, a different OC, an offensive head coach who has gone public with his adoration of Tebow, etc. You have yet to give a specific example of what you are complaining the team did not do.

I also really didn't need all of the rest of your response, since I'm still talking about the part I just quoted, but I'll answer the rest of it in my next post.

SoCalBronco
07-21-2011, 06:07 PM
1. Elway clearly is lukewarm on Tebow.
2. Elway clearly is enamored with Luck.
3. In all the hiring flurry that went on, no special attention was given towards the development of Tebow.
4. With the lockout, and given our current transition (which seems to be focused primarily on defense), it's hard to imagine us not being in the top 10 in next year's draft. Top 5 is even conceivable.



I pretty much agree with all the above. I am bothered by Elway's attitude towards Tebow. Yes, Luck is a terrific prospect, but there's really no reason for him to go out of his way to keep talking Tebow down over and over again (and the idea that its to motivate him is weak since he doesnt need motivation).

I'm hoping Tebow continues to develop at QB into such a special weapon (and becomes such a fan favorite) so that Elway and the FO are boxed into a corner. Even the great John Elway lacks the political capital to get rid of Tebow in favor of Luck if Tebow continues to produce in a big (albeit unorthodox) way in 2011 and the fans keep loving him. Just give him a chance, there's no need to be constantly pissing on the guy and talking him down. He's not a prototypical QB yes we know that, but that doesnt mean he can't be special. He IS special.

And I don't think Bowlen can really afford to have another full scale revolt on his hands. The last one exposed him as a stupid worthless aloof old man who had apparently no ability to control his underlings or exercise common sense crisis management skills in an emergency. Can you imagine what would happen if Tebow threw for 18 TD's and 3000 yards, ran for 7 TD's and 500 yards and was generally dynamic despite having some uneven performances as a passer.....and then they tried to get rid of him in favor of someone else? The fanbase already loves Tebow....and for good reason. Elway is playing with fire here. If he's smart, he'd at least STFU about what he really believes, but then I guess when we hire guys who think running AFL teams means they are ready for the league, we deserve what we get. The FO should be grateful that they are even employed, so it would be nice if they would just shut the **** up.

Shananahan
07-21-2011, 06:13 PM
The facts as I see them are as such - I would be happy to see any of them disputed:

1. Elway clearly is lukewarm on Tebow.
I'm sure he's as lukewarm as anybody else that didn't draft him, hasn't coached him and used to play the position itself in a very different way. Also, not to disagree with your point because I believe this one to be a fact (understandably so), but the only thing I think to be clear about the QB situation in Denver is that Orton is out of it. The things that Elway has said about Tebow publicly could all be smokescreen, and for all we know the guy could see Quinn as the QB of the future.

2. Elway clearly is enamored with Luck.
Well, no fuccing shiit. He and about 25 other teams without a proven franchise QB.

4. With the lockout, and given our current transition (which seems to be focused primarily on defense), it's hard to imagine us not being in the top 10 in next year's draft. Top 5 is even conceivable.
I disagree completely. Given all the factors that went into last year's team, I fail to understand how people can believe this year's team will be just as bad. McDaniels' horrible playcalling (not to be confused with passing scheme) is gone, the offensive line is healthy and more experienced, Goodman and the rest of the secondary is healthy and injected with young talent, we just added a #2 overall talent to the linebacking corps and put Williams back in his best position while hiring a proven defensive coach and, more important than anything else on the entire defense, the team will be getting Dumervil back. The DT hole is surely bleak, but it's hard for me to imagine the run defense getting worse so I'll call that a wash. Basically I see plenty of reasons for improvement, and considering I thought the team was better than it's record last season a top five finish again would shock and amaze me. I think if you are expecting anything less than seven wins you are a total pessimist.

I also suppose that people would say that retaining Mike McCoy constitutes "special attention" given to Tebow - but given his lack of pedigree, I hardly see how. Josh McDaniels hired him as a junior playcaller - HE (McDaniels) was the quarterback coach. I would say that retaining McCoy was more to provide Fox with stability than Tebow, given that Fox had hired him once before.
I wouldn't call it 'special attention', but I'd call it attention. A familiarity with the coaches and a continuity with the offensive system is always a big plus for young QBs. Beyond that I believe Fox's offensive mindset (strong rushing game) will benefit Tebow. I think if you had seen Denver hire another pass-crazy coach, it would be much more of an indication in the team's lack of faith in the guy.

As far as our offense is concerned, I don't see how anybody doesn't have the feeling that we're in no-man's land here. I mean, are we basically running the same offense that we had last year? I guess so. When I think about this offense and then I think about Elway - how would you look at this offense and this situation if you were Elway? Seriously? Elway has got to look at this offense and think "what an effing gimmicky joke!"
It's already been said that while they are keeping some of the passing scheme, the offense this upcoming season won't really be anything like the one from last year. Fox is bringing his style to the team, and they're going to run the ball a hell of a lot more. I guess you could call that gimmicky, but whatever. It will help the defense and it will help the long balls to Lloyd.

I think Elway is doing the best he can to disinvest the Broncos from the McDaniels era - not out of any spite for McDaniels (or anything like that), but because he's got his own vision about how a pro team should work, and he's going to do what he can to build the team in that vision. Given what we know about Elway, it's hard for me to imagine that the offense we are currently running has a long shelf life in Denver - that, of course, has implications for everyone involved - especially the quarterback. As much as I like Tebow, given all the factors, the deck seems stacked against him staying in Denver for an extended period of time.
A large portion of that is just absurd though. Given what we know about Elway, he is not going to want to lose, especially on purpose. It's also not just Elway getting away from the past two years, it's the entire franchise. As for the offense we're currently running, you are correct about the shelf life. As I said above, it's already expired. Fox likes safe, smart QBs and I see no reason why Tebow could not do the things Delhomme did for him.

You're right about the deck being stacked against Tebow, because it is (much like it always is against all young QBs). It's just beyond ridiculous to think that any of the stacking is being done by the team.

Taco John
07-21-2011, 06:20 PM
I'll ask again: what exactly did you have in mind?

I didn't have anything in mind. The realization didn't occur to me until sometime mid-last month. But pressed for what might have been a move towards developing Tebow, an actual QB coach seems like an obvious place to start. Perhaps an OC with a real pedigree towards developing young talent - or has some connection with Urban Meyer might be something. But honestly, I didn't have anything specific in mind. I was happily buzzing along on the Tebow homer bandwagon, and the realization hit me like a ton of bricks. I thought about posting something at the time, but didn't figure it would be well received - and am only speaking up about it now because the content of this thread reinforced my thoughts.



Honestly I'm confused about what you think the team might have done to give him special attention outside of hiring a different QB coach, a different OC, an offensive head coach who has gone public with his adoration of Tebow, etc. You have yet to give a specific example of what you are complaining the team did not do.

I'm kind of confused by your confusion. You can't point out a single thing that this team has done to insure the success of our investment, and you're confused at what it is that I'm talking about? You can't be all that confused, because in your very post, you highlight some of the very things: a QB coach, and offensive coordinator, maybe a head coach - there's any number of things that could have been done. I can't come up with a single thing that sends the message "Tebow is our future, and we're going to give him every chance to succeed." Can you?


I also really didn't need all of the rest of your response, since I'm still talking about the part I just quoted, but I'll answer the rest of it in my next post.[/QUOTE]

Shananahan
07-21-2011, 06:32 PM
I can't come up with a single thing that sends the message "Tebow is our future, and we're going to give him every chance to succeed." Can you?
Outside of keeping the OC and majority of the offensive staff he's already worked with, as well as hiring a head coach with a run-first mentality, I can't name anything specific, no. But then, I wouldn't honestly expect them to dp more than that, as they haven't come out an said, "Tebow is our future." And I wouldn't honestly expect them to come out and say that because they have no idea if he is or isn't yet. I feel very, very, very confident that Orton will not be the starter, much less on the team, this upcoming season. Giving Tebow the opportunity to start and prove himself is, realistically, all they should be expected of at this point. And if he proves himself to be the future, you can bet your ass they will be building around him and giving him what he needs to succeed.

oubronco
07-21-2011, 06:38 PM
What's funny on this insider info is the fact that I posted it .predraft

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MacGruber esc

Taco John
07-21-2011, 10:32 PM
Imagine for a second there is no season, and the NFL basically has a draft next season based on the same draft order as this current season. Do you believe Elway would stick with Tebow or do everything possible to draft Luck?

ZONA
07-21-2011, 10:41 PM
I could live with Ronnie Brown and a couple of picks for Orton.

BS on the QB front. No owner would allow a strategy of loosing you way to the first pick to fly. That is putting a ridiculous amount of faith in a QB still in collage. No effin way.

Exactly. These NFL coaches, GM's and such know the windows are small. You won't be around long in the NFL is you're goal is to lose. And yes, Luck is a college QB who hasn't proven anything yet at the NFL level. And in addition, you don't know how Tebow will turn out. He could be one of those guys who doesn't look pretty doing it but wins games. Hard to give up on those kinds of guys.

And the part where Fox doesn't want to go with a raw rookie (as in Tebow). Well what the hell do you think Luck will be, some seasoned vet in his 1st year? NOT.

This "Insider Info" is full of shiz

Shananahan
07-21-2011, 10:56 PM
Imagine for a second there is no season, and the NFL basically has a draft next season based on the same draft order as this current season. Do you believe Elway would stick with Tebow or do everything possible to draft Luck?
How is this at all relevant to your notion that the team might be deliberately depriving Tebow of help and improvement as well as Elway being so 'lukewarm' on Tebow that he'd hope to lose in order to draft Luck?

I mean, of course he'd do everything he could to draft Luck in that scenario. It would be the smart thing to do. Still doesn't mean a single thing in the context of this conversation.

Taco John
07-21-2011, 11:10 PM
How is this at all relevant to your notion that the team might be deliberately depriving Tebow of help and improvement as well as Elway being so 'lukewarm' on Tebow that he'd hope to lose in order to draft Luck?

My notion? You just assigned that notion to yourself.

"I can't name anything specific, no. But then, I wouldn't honestly expect them to do more than that, as they haven't come out an said, "Tebow is our future."

It's not relevant to that notion. It's simply a question.

HAT
07-21-2011, 11:15 PM
My notion?


Frankly, I think that the narrative that the OP paints is consistent with the way the new regime has handled Tebow to date. I'm not saying that it's absolutely true - I have no way of knowing that - but I will say you haven't been paying attention if you think it's all that far-fetched.

???

Shananahan
07-21-2011, 11:19 PM
My notion? You just assigned that notion to yourself.

"I can't name anything specific, no. But then, I wouldn't honestly expect them to do more than that, as they haven't come out an said, "Tebow is our future."

It's not relevant to that notion. It's simply a question.
Oh come on, man. You're one of the few in this thread who didn't come out and call the assertion in the original post ridiculous and idiotic. You claimed that anyone who found it far-fetched hadn't been paying attention. You've been one of the only people in this thread furthering the idea that Denver is choosing not to help Tebow out and, in the same posts, reminding everyone how much Elway loves Luck. I didn't think it was such a leap to connect you to the 'notion' provided in the original post when you've defended and continued it.

Of course Elway wants Luck and would draft him today if he could. Everybody wants Luck. Of course Tebow isn't proven and the team has no idea if he will pan out. You can repeat all of that all you want because it's true, but it still doesn't mean that all the garbage and retardedness provided by the first post has any more basis in reality.

SoCalBronco
07-21-2011, 11:20 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing the FO get backed into a corner by Tebow's awesomeness.

Shananahan
07-21-2011, 11:45 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing the FO get backed into a corner by Tebow's awesomeness.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/Macgregor/wildthing.jpg

Taco John
07-22-2011, 12:39 AM
Oh come on, man. You're one of the few in this thread who didn't come out and call the assertion in the original post ridiculous and idiotic. You claimed that anyone who found it far-fetched hadn't been paying attention. You've been one of the only people in this thread furthering the idea that Denver is choosing not to help Tebow out and, in the same posts, reminding everyone how much Elway loves Luck. I didn't think it was such a leap to connect you to the 'notion' provided in the original post when you've defended and continued it.

Of course Elway wants Luck and would draft him today if he could. Everybody wants Luck. Of course Tebow isn't proven and the team has no idea if he will pan out. You can repeat all of that all you want because it's true, but it still doesn't mean that all the garbage and retardedness provided by the first post has any more basis in reality.


I think I made it clear enough in my posts that I filtered out the OPs interpretation and spin, and determined that you basically agree with the same premise that I agree with. This post confirms it yet again.

I think it's clear that the front office is very much enamoured with Luck, and that in no way does it view Tebow the future of the franchise at this moment in time.

I find this to be significant.

If you want to argue about whether Elway wants this team to lose or not, you're talking to the wrong guy. I have zero doubts about Elway's desire to return this team to its championship form. If you want to discuss the implications of the Luck sweepstakes and how it affects our team, that's just my game. I think the spectre of Luck very much affects how the front office is thinking about our future. I would not go so far as to say that they are setting Tebow up for failure - but I would go so far as to say that they aren't necessarily setting him up for success. A point which you've already agreed:

I can't name anything specific (to help Tebow), no. But then, I wouldn't honestly expect them to do more than that, as they haven't come out an said, "Tebow is our future." And I wouldn't honestly expect them to come out and say that because they have no idea if he is or isn't yet.

Adam Gase is our QB coach, a McDaniels buddy from Louisiana who has been coaching WRs for the last two years, and whose only claim to fame as a QB coach is a single year with the Lions' Jon Kitna (2007). Shifting our shallow pedigreed WRs coach over to QB coach is not exactly a move that screams that they are setting Tebow up for success.

I think this is significant.

And I think at some point in time, so will the Denver media.

Shananahan
07-22-2011, 01:06 AM
To be fair, you edited my quote. What I said was, 'Outside of keeping the OC and majority of the offensive staff he's already worked with, as well as hiring a head coach with a run-first mentality, I can't name anything specific, no.'

In addition, I disagree that 'in no way does it view Tebow the future of the franchise at this moment in time'. I mean, that may be true, but it's not exactly 'clear'. Part of the reason they haven't just come out and declared it is to do so would cripple any leverage they might still have in trading Orton.

I'm also sick of hearing about how much Elway and the front office likes Luck. It's meaningless and has nothing to do with anything unless you think they're going to try and draft high enough to get him, which is idiotic. Every team without a star QB wants Luck, including the guys who drafted QBs high this past year. Please shutup about it already, because all it will ever amount to is what's already been covered: It would be nice to draft him.

Anyway, yeah, I mostly agree with what you've been saying. You shouldn't be connecting your opinions with the original post, however, because people might think you're just as brainless.

CEH
07-22-2011, 06:58 AM
I think I made it clear enough in my posts that I filtered out the OPs interpretation and spin, and determined that you basically agree with the same premise that I agree with. This post confirms it yet again.

I think it's clear that the front office is very much enamoured with Luck, and that in no way does it view Tebow the future of the franchise at this moment in time.

I find this to be significant.

If you want to argue about whether Elway wants this team to lose or not, you're talking to the wrong guy. I have zero doubts about Elway's desire to return this team to its championship form. If you want to discuss the implications of the Luck sweepstakes and how it affects our team, that's just my game. I think the spectre of Luck very much affects how the front office is thinking about our future. I would not go so far as to say that they are setting Tebow up for failure - but I would go so far as to say that they aren't necessarily setting him up for success. A point which you've already agreed:

I can't name anything specific (to help Tebow), no. But then, I wouldn't honestly expect them to do more than that, as they haven't come out an said, "Tebow is our future." And I wouldn't honestly expect them to come out and say that because they have no idea if he is or isn't yet.

Adam Gase is our QB coach, a McDaniels buddy from Louisiana who has been coaching WRs for the last two years, and whose only claim to fame as a QB coach is a single year with the Lions' Jon Kitna (2007). Shifting our shallow pedigreed WRs coach over to QB coach is not exactly a move that screams that they are setting Tebow up for success.

I think this is significant.

And I think at some point in time, so will the Denver media.

So Denver drafts Luck next year. Is Gase the QB coach or not. Based on how you perceive the current coaching staff Elway must have a different coach in mind for Luck. He is not good enough to coach QBs. Not only is Elway going to draft Luck he's going to start removing coaches from Fox's coaching staff. I think your thinking is much more in line with the current OP than you think

Luck is a can't miss that does not need a QB coach

rugbythug
07-22-2011, 07:06 AM
Is it just me or is this the most irrelevant thread ever. Tebow will get his chance. Play well you are the future poorly the past. He has a line full pf high draft picks a good receiving corps no excuses.

Beantown Bronco
07-22-2011, 07:12 AM
Is it just me or is this the most irrelevant thread ever.

It's no "Things other parents think are ok", but it will have to do. :)

Cito Pelon
07-22-2011, 07:31 AM
........ Mr. Elway . . . .has a sophisticated vision . . . . .

Well, Elway is more sophisticated than me. Did you know that they have COTTON NAPKINS in his restaurant! I stoled mines and use it as my do-rag for special occasions.

alkemical
07-22-2011, 07:31 AM
I can't find anything there that I think is outrageous. It all rings true to me. It's bothered me a bit before you posted, because I've been watching and rewatching the Tim Tebow games from last season, and it dawned on me in mid-June as I was contemplating the fact that Tebow was missing minicamps - and I thought, "yeah, but he's got to be working with ________ on the side," and I came up with nobody. There is absolutely no investment that I can point to towards ensuring/maximizing the success of Tebow. It seems to be "alright, Tim - be who we need you to be, sink or swim."

Those type of situations are of no benefit in the whole either. I understand where you're coming from on this situation. It's exactly how you talk in business. Not even so much what you say, but how often the message is repeated and how the circumstances seem to fit. This is Elway in business now.

I've personally been in those situations. You might sink the first time, but the second time you get the opportunity is telling. I would love for Tebow to succeed, I really would. It would be the "best scenario", IMO - for the direction of the Broncos in terms of addressing future draft picks for "other" areas of need....and to not have FULLY wasted McD's tenure to set the franchise back even more. (though, i still like SOME of the moves he made - and the areas he addressed, etc - not rehashing, just my POV.)

In many ways though, I share your 'view' on Elway's statements.

Bronco Yoda
11-04-2011, 04:08 PM
We trade our 2nd best WR in the offseason and then top that with trading our #1 WR in MID SEASON! And people wonder why the WRs can't get open or keep dropping the ball. I counted 7 drops Sunday btw.

The MCcurse may never leave us around here. Who trades their most productive player in mid season for a late round throw away pick.

WE DO

Bronco Yoda
11-04-2011, 04:27 PM
This whole crap pisses me off.

I'm going to go out now and cut down a tree in anger...right the **** now. Ok, it already need to be taken down.

But I'm going to be using my axe now. I'm sure i'll feel better afterwords. And I think I'll aim it towards my shed for ****s and giggles.

Later peeps!