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epicSocialism4tw
07-19-2011, 09:13 PM
This upcoming season could be helter skelter for several weeks, leading to a bunch of inconsistent results for teams across the league. Teams with a veteran core of successful players (Pats, Steelers, Colts, etc) are at a bit of an advantage, because their core pieces can get in there and take advantage of teams who are still getting up to speed in terms of the playbook and the integration of new players. Most everyone else could struggle at times.

That would level the playing field a little for a young Broncos team with a new coach, a new QB, and a new system on both sides of the ball, allowing the Broncos to remain somewhat in striking position while they grow and possibly even allowing their youthful exuberance to produce some surprising victories against teams that they might not be able to beat had the other team been able to hone their sets and make their execution more disciplined.

It should be interesting. I'm not counting the Broncos out of the playoffs, even if they end up with a 7-9 or 8-8 type of season. I think this season may be about the elite teams and then everyone else scrambles for position over the last 4-5 weeks of the season.

Lev Vyvanse
07-19-2011, 09:26 PM
A good defense and a veteran QB is what teams need right now. I'm afraid we're ****ed. The good news is high draft picks don't cripple teams anymore.

epicSocialism4tw
07-19-2011, 09:34 PM
A good defense and a veteran QB is what teams need right now. I'm afraid we're ****ed. The good news is high draft picks don't cripple teams anymore.

True.

The defense is a big worry. There are alot of questions there.

HooptyHoops
07-19-2011, 09:37 PM
I actually think that most of the Defenses will be just fine coming out of the lockout....as the lockout is only going to challenge the offenses at the beginning of the year---I'm hoping the Broncos playbook stayed pretty much the same, as that will be big in the first three, or so weeks. Let's get on with this season already!!

Doggcow
07-19-2011, 09:37 PM
Broncos are in the worst shape of any team due to the lockout, and how we went into it...

Don't sugarcoat it.

epicSocialism4tw
07-19-2011, 09:41 PM
Broncos are in the worst shape of any team due to the lockout, and how we went into it...

Don't sugarcoat it.

Ha!

I didn't think that the Mavs would win the title this year either.

One thing is for sure in sports...things work out differently than you expect.

Tebow alone is going to make this team alot more fun to pull for, and I believe, more competitive as well. He did alot to improve the offense, especially the red zone offense over the course of his time as starter.

broncosteven
07-19-2011, 09:45 PM
We have to implement a new Offense, Defense and determine who the starting QB is, we have a hole in the middle of the DL and a rookie starting LB corps (if the rooks at Mike and Sam pan out), we also need an RB who can prove he can take a pounding.

I hope we win more games than we did last year but I don't think the lockout gives us any kind of advantage over teams that have an established coaching staff and base of players.

Lev Vyvanse
07-19-2011, 09:45 PM
Ha!

I didn't think that the Mavs would win the title this year either.

One thing is for sure in sports...things work out differently than you expect.

Tebow alone is going to make this team alot more fun to pull for, and I believe, more competitive as well. He did alot to improve the offense, especially the red zone offense over the course of his time as starter.

I think Tebow is the only chance we have at a successful season. That is a great deal to ask from a player with 3 starts.

Lev Vyvanse
07-19-2011, 09:48 PM
We have to implement a new Offense, Defense and determine who the starting QB is, we have a hole in the middle of the DL and a rookie starting LB corps (if the rooks at Mike and Sam pan out), we also need an RB who can prove he can take a pounding.

I hope we win more games than we did last year but I don't think the lockout gives us any kind of advantage over teams that have an established coaching staff and base of players.

The offense should have many of the same plays or at least have the same verbiage. Why else would you keep McCoy around?

Requiem
07-19-2011, 09:53 PM
Just wonder how many of our players stayed active and conditioned themselves in preparation for the season. If people come in out of shape and unprepared, we're in trouble.

Man-Goblin
07-19-2011, 09:53 PM
With this many free agents on the market (don't forget the rookie free agents) there is opportunity for bad teams to get better faster than ever before. Whether they take advantage of that opportunity is another deal. There's also more of a chance to whiff.

DivineBronco
07-19-2011, 09:56 PM
pulling stuff out of my butt here but it stands to reason the big ol DT's who have jobs and are locked in will be the people most likely to come into camp out of shape.
And the guys who have no team and need money probably worked their butts off during the lockout. Luckily we have I think negative 5 DT's on our roster so ummmmmmmm maybe that will work out

TheReverend
07-19-2011, 10:00 PM
..............what?

TheReverend
07-19-2011, 10:01 PM
This upcoming season could be helter skelter for several weeks, leading to a bunch of inconsistent results for teams across the league. Teams with a veteran core of successful players (Pats, Steelers, Colts, etc) are at a bit of an advantage, because their core pieces can get in there and take advantage of teams who are still getting up to speed in terms of the playbook and the integration of new players. Most everyone else could struggle at times.

That would level the playing field a little for a young Broncos team with a new coach, a new QB, and a new system on both sides of the ball, allowing the Broncos to remain somewhat in striking position while they grow and possibly even allowing their youthful exuberance to produce some surprising victories against teams that they might not be able to beat had the other team been able to hone their sets and make their execution more disciplined.

It should be interesting. I'm not counting the Broncos out of the playoffs, even if they end up with a 7-9 or 8-8 type of season. I think this season may be about the elite teams and then everyone else scrambles for position over the last 4-5 weeks of the season.

Please point out the part that "levels the playing field a little for a young Broncos team"...?

mkporter
07-19-2011, 10:10 PM
The only real positive that the Broncos got from the lockout, is that they don't have to pay $$$$ for Von.

epicSocialism4tw
07-19-2011, 10:31 PM
Please point out the part that "levels the playing field a little for a young Broncos team"...?

I was referring to the shared cacophony that will characterize the NFL for a spell after the league gets rebooted from the lockout. A lowering-of-the-bar if you will.

RunSilentRunDeep
07-19-2011, 10:31 PM
Denver has to pick the low-hanging fruit early. Oakland is losing Asomugha and its offensive line is in flux. Weeks 2 and 3 potentially are games against rookie (or at least crappy) QBs. For all Denver's problems, it wouldn't be that big a surprise if they start 3-0 (and then get the crap beat out of them at Green Bay).

epicSocialism4tw
07-19-2011, 10:33 PM
With this many free agents on the market (don't forget the rookie free agents) there is opportunity for bad teams to get better faster than ever before. Whether they take advantage of that opportunity is another deal. There's also more of a chance to whiff.

Well there's two ways to look at that I guess.

Denver was not a big spender at all last year. Something like 6th from the bottom in that category. Maybe they were waiting for the new cap, or maybe they're just cheap.

NUB
07-19-2011, 10:42 PM
I think Tebow can carry the offense to early victories if John Fox turns the defense around. The lack of reps really hurts, though, and we need to know who is #1 QB at the start of camp. I think a competition at the QB position would really hurt Denver and here's why: either Tebow needs to get as many 1st-team reps as possible or Orton needs to know Fox has his back. I think a competition puts both in jeopardy.

Dagmar
07-19-2011, 10:44 PM
I admire Llama's optimism, to be honest I just rewatched the Houston and SD game highlights and if Fox fixes the running game and D in the next couple of years, things could be pretty sweet.

cutthemdown
07-19-2011, 11:12 PM
We need to have realistic goals. If Doom has a strong season, maybe 3 or so of the rookies look like good players, Lloyd wasn't a one yr wonder, Tebow looks like a starter at some point, and the coaches seem to not be idiots, then i would say the yr a success even if we only win 4-5 games.

Drek
07-20-2011, 05:32 AM
The lockout cost the Broncos an early extra week of camp that we would have otherwise gotten with a new HC.

We have a QB controversy between a solid vet who showed last year he can't put this team on his shoulders and a rookie who's started three games.

There is basically only one DT we have under contract right now.

As of this point we're starting two rookies at MLB and SOLB respectively.

Any RB we get to pair with Moreno is starting behind the eight ball on learning his pass pro assignments.

The very young OL has had exactly zero time with their new OL coach.

Free agency is going to be an incredibly strong seller's market where the Broncos need to address needs for starters, not just depth.

We're changing to a different defensive system this season.

Hell of a lot of negatives when the best positive we've got is that other teams have been locked out too. Its had a uniquely strong impact on the Broncos due coaching change, potential QB change, system change, etc..

Not to say we couldn't have a miracle season, but you're talking 1967 incredible dream Red Sox levels of coming from nowhere.

Jay3
07-20-2011, 05:47 AM
http://i.imgur.com/ivRWA.jpg

chrisp
07-20-2011, 06:00 AM
Hell of a lot of negatives when the best positive we've got is that other teams have been locked out too. Its had a uniquely strong impact on the Broncos due coaching change, potential QB change, system change, etc..

Not to say we couldn't have a miracle season, but you're talking 1967 incredible dream Red Sox levels of coming from nowhere.

This.

We can always hope & dream, that's what makes this league so fun, and you could argue that the lost offseason time makes the whole regular season more of a crapshoot, but anyone trying to convince themselves that this whole thing has actually helped us is crazy.

yes, any team can go from zero to hero in a year in the moderm league due to free agency etc. Yes, the disruption to the offseason is another wild card becuase it may derail soem teams more than others, but I find it hard to believe said disruption won't hurt rebuildign teams more than others, and we are in that category.

...I'm just happy it looks liek there will be football though - i'd rather 4-12 than 0-0.....

Kaylore
07-20-2011, 06:33 AM
It will take us even longer to not suck with that missed time practicing and in the classroom.

Drek
07-20-2011, 06:35 AM
I'm just hoping the league comps us the extra week of camp next season. Then we can talk about advantages and storming back to the top of our division. I'd honestly prefer to give Fox and Elway a full season to evaluate what they've got in-house then get the extra week next season when the roster is even more "there guys" knowing what they can expect from many of the new additions.

I mean sure there is a hypothetical situation where we get Mebane in FA, Vickerson explodes into something legit, Miller is a monster out of the gate, Irving is league average or better at MLB, and our new DC does enough creative things with the secondary to start finally generating turnovers. Meanwhile the offense would need Tebow to first take over as QB then take the league by storm and out-perform 90% of the projections for him. Our young OL would need to instantly come together and play up to their generally high draft pedigrees. Moreno and his unknown FA backfield mate would need to break through as a two headed backfield to be feared. And even then you'd need Lloyd to prove that last year wasn't a mirage and for at least one of Royal, Gaffney, or Decker to show they can produce as a #2 in an offense that isn't constantly obsessed with the pass.

That is a lot of major leaps forward in play all having to converge for us to look like a real playoff team.

Rabb
07-20-2011, 06:38 AM
A good defense and a veteran QB is what teams need right now. I'm afraid we're ****ed. The good news is high draft picks don't cripple teams anymore.

yep, defense is always ahead of the game going in and with less time to prepare that is my concern also

hopefully Fox just keeps the offense simple, which is really why I think Tebow will get the nod because he will add so much to the "sophisticated" ground game we keep hearing about

I will be interested to see our linebackers this year, I am actually pretty damn excited about that part and hope we can field a serviceable front 4 to let them do damage

I just want football, go Broncos

cmhargrove
07-20-2011, 07:04 AM
I agree with several of the posts here, and appreciate a thread on page 2 without butt hurt drama queens destroying it.



I think that in this situation, it is a good thing that our coaching hire was a very experienced, level headed coach. Fox has been around the block, and I think he will know how to "pass on" his plan in a shortened time span. Not a desirable situation, but i'm glad it's not a first time HC.

Keeping McCoy, and having all three of our QB's versed in his sytem is a plus. Basically, all of our QB's, RB's, WR's, and most of the line already know his terminology. Once again, it's not optimal, but these guys have last year's material and they are professionals. I think the early problems will be with timing and execution, not a lack of understanding.

I am usually an offense first kind of guy, but I am most excited to see the competition and development of our LB corps. I believe that fixing the run game, and establishing a dominant LB corps are the two major concerns of this team. Obviously Fox will be basing his defense on these guys, because he drafted LB heavy, even to the detriment of d-line. He has identified this team's primary defensive weakness and gone straight after it - the LB corps. The fat guys clog the line, but the LB's should and must be the guys making the majority of the tackles.

Win or lose, there will be so many fun things to watch this year that I am really excited to see what happens.

Rabb
07-20-2011, 07:11 AM
I agree with several of the posts here, and appreciate a thread on page 2 without butt hurt drama queens destroying it.



I think that in this situation, it is a good thing that our coaching hire was a very experienced, level headed coach. Fox has been around the block, and I think he will know how to "pass on" his plan in a shortened time span. Not a desirable situation, but i'm glad it's not a first time HC.

Keeping McCoy, and having all three of our QB's versed in his sytem is a plus. Basically, all of our QB's, RB's, WR's, and most of the line already know his terminology. Once again, it's not optimal, but these guys have last year's material and they are professionals. I think the early problems will be with timing and execution, not a lack of understanding.

I am usually an offense first kind of guy, but I am most excited to see the competition and development of our LB corps. I believe that fixing the run game, and establishing a dominant LB corps are the two major concerns of this team. Obviously Fox will be basing his defense on these guys, because he drafted LB heavy, even to the detriment of d-line. He has identified this team's primary defensive weakness and gone straight after it - the LB corps. The fat guys clog the line, but the LB's should and must be the guys making the majority of the tackles.

Win or lose, there will be so many fun things to watch this year that I am really excited to see what happens.

repped for a positive outlook, I am with you brother

Dagmar
07-20-2011, 07:48 AM
I reckon (and it's a big IF) IF we can get a couple of veteran DT's in, that Fox combing with the new DC could turn the D around to at least mediocre this year.

Also, I am hoping that with the lock out and Tebow starting 16 games for the 1st time, we might actually improve as the year progresses, leaving November and December to not be the depressing months they have been in years past.

I love this time of year when we can be optimistic.

Captain 'Dre
07-20-2011, 07:58 AM
It should be interesting. I'm not counting the Broncos out of the playoffs, even if they end up with a 7-9 or 8-8 type of season. I think this season may be about the elite teams and then everyone else scrambles for position over the last 4-5 weeks of the season.

I think you're dreaming.

With no mini-camps or team-directed offseason workouts, teams like the Broncos-- with a new head coach and some major system changes-- are more likely to be at a big disadvantage.

I'm accepting that this season will be a rebuilding effort, and that we can't realistically hope for anything better than 3rd place in the division.

On the bright side, I think 6 or 7 wins is a possibility.

baja
07-20-2011, 08:02 AM
Ha!

I didn't think that the Mavs would win the title this year either.

One thing is for sure in sports...things work out differently than you expect.

Tebow alone is going to make this team alot more fun to pull for, and I believe, more competitive as well. He did alot to improve the offense, especially the red zone offense over the course of his time as starter.

Why are they planning to split screen a shot of him on the sidelines?



j/k you almost have to start him, the natives are very restless.

Captain 'Dre
07-20-2011, 08:07 AM
I'm just hoping the league comps us the extra week of camp next season. Then we can talk about advantages and storming back to the top of our division. I'd honestly prefer to give Fox and Elway a full season to evaluate what they've got in-house then get the extra week next season when the roster is even more "there guys" knowing what they can expect from many of the new additions.

I mean sure there is a hypothetical situation where we get Mebane in FA, Vickerson explodes into something legit, Miller is a monster out of the gate, Irving is league average or better at MLB, and our new DC does enough creative things with the secondary to start finally generating turnovers. Meanwhile the offense would need Tebow to first take over as QB then take the league by storm and out-perform 90% of the projections for him. Our young OL would need to instantly come together and play up to their generally high draft pedigrees. Moreno and his unknown FA backfield mate would need to break through as a two headed backfield to be feared. And even then you'd need Lloyd to prove that last year wasn't a mirage and for at least one of Royal, Gaffney, or Decker to show they can produce as a #2 in an offense that isn't constantly obsessed with the pass.

That is a lot of major leaps forward in play all having to converge for us to look like a real playoff team.

Your vision requires a buttload of "ifs" to materialize, and that just isn't how things generally work in the NFL.

The defense, in particular, will be a work in progress, and as such, doesn't figure to be able to consistently keep opponents from scoring... which is what a young QB needs from his defense.

If the Fox administration's first draft turns out to be solid, I'd be content irrespective of what the team's won-loss record turns out to be.

Mediator12
07-20-2011, 09:00 AM
The real Advantage DEN has is exactly what McDaniels had to start his career in DEN. There is no tape of what scheme DEN is actually going to run to study from a gameplanning perspective. Also, the coaches will dumb down install and playbook for the first few weeks of the season to not make BIG mistakes. It really could level the playing field.

On offense, I would not be surprised to see Tebow run some non-traditional Spread offenses out of the gate to get ahead of Defenses that are behind the curve in OTA's and playbook adjustments. Now, I believe this would be a RUN heavy spead with a lot of PA to keep Tebow from having to make too many reads.

On defense, I think they come out and play bend but do not break zone between the 20's early and evolve into what they want to become. I see a lot of eight man in the box cover 3 out of the gate.

I would not be surprised to see them have some early success to build upon. However, I would not bet on it ;D

long beach bronco
07-20-2011, 09:24 AM
You just never know, maybe the broncos will be like the Rams of 1999, remember them? They went from dead last to the Greatest Show on Turf in one offseason, and they came in with a new QB in Kurt Warner. I'm hoping for the best, we can be just as good as any other team.

cmhargrove
07-20-2011, 12:11 PM
I think you're dreaming.

With no mini-camps or team-directed offseason workouts, teams like the Broncos-- with a new head coach and some major system changes-- are more likely to be at a big disadvantage.

I'm accepting that this season will be a rebuilding effort, and that we can't realistically hope for anything better than 3rd place in the division.

On the bright side, I think 6 or 7 wins is a possibility.

With a year like this, 7-9 is a very respectable turnaround. The Rams almost made the playoffs with that record last year.

Just no more humiliating home losses to divisional opponents. Losing is ok, as long as we fight hard to the end.

Taco John
07-20-2011, 12:19 PM
I don't see how the Broncos are in good shape at all. So much missed time in minicamps, and in film study, and in playbook study, and learning new lingo on both offense and defense. One positive, I suppose, is that we play in the AFC West, and those guys can lose to anyone.

Dagmar
07-20-2011, 12:38 PM
I don't see how the Broncos are in good shape at all. So much missed time in minicamps, and in film study, and in playbook study, and learning new lingo on both offense and defense. One positive, I suppose, is that we play in the AFC West, and those guys can lose to anyone.

I thought they all got playbooks in that 48 hour window in April no? And at least its a similar playbook on the O.

oubronco
07-20-2011, 12:53 PM
I would just like to see them get stronger as the year goes on and finish the season with a chance for the playoffs instead of fadeing down the stretch

chrisp
07-20-2011, 01:00 PM
I agree with several of the posts here, and appreciate a thread on page 2 without butt hurt drama queens destroying it.

that's just typical of you (insert coach/player here) nuthuggers!!!! You can't see that (insert other players name here) is (the saviour of/killing (delete as appropriate)) this franchise - awww I hate you and I will (kill myself/never buy a Broncos ticket again/unfriend you on facebook(delete as appropriate))

ZachKC
07-20-2011, 01:05 PM
This upcoming season could be helter skelter for several weeks, leading to a bunch of inconsistent results for teams across the league. Teams with a veteran core of successful players (Pats, Steelers, Colts, etc) are at a bit of an advantage, because their core pieces can get in there and take advantage of teams who are still getting up to speed in terms of the playbook and the integration of new players. Most everyone else could struggle at times.

That would level the playing field a little for a young Broncos team with a new coach, a new QB, and a new system on both sides of the ball, allowing the Broncos to remain somewhat in striking position while they grow and possibly even allowing their youthful exuberance to produce some surprising victories against teams that they might not be able to beat had the other team been able to hone their sets and make their execution more disciplined.

It should be interesting. I'm not counting the Broncos out of the playoffs, even if they end up with a 7-9 or 8-8 type of season. I think this season may be about the elite teams and then everyone else scrambles for position over the last 4-5 weeks of the season.

......ok

CEH
07-20-2011, 01:10 PM
As with Josh, the early success may just be playing as a regression to the mean. The talent (or lack thereof ) will eventually find the center. I hope Fox and Co hit a homerun with this draft and future drafts.

BroncoMan4ever
07-20-2011, 01:23 PM
i am betting on 8-8 for this team. nothing spectacular. a few losses they should have won, and a couple wins they should have lost. but this team will show flashes of what it can be if it continues to be built through the draft and with solid moanagement and coaching.

epicSocialism4tw
07-20-2011, 03:55 PM
i am betting on 8-8 for this team. nothing spectacular. a few losses they should have won, and a couple wins they should have lost. but this team will show flashes of what it can be if it continues to be built through the draft and with solid moanagement and coaching.

If the Broncos end up 8-8, this season would have been a big success.

I think that 8-8 will get you close to the playoffs.

BroncoMan4ever
07-20-2011, 06:27 PM
If the Broncos end up 8-8, this season would have been a big success.

I think that 8-8 will get you close to the playoffs.

i agree. i think with good coaching and the Tebow factor of getting the team a little more amped up and playing a little harder and with a better attitude could get the team 4 more wins.

and yes i think the Tebow factor is real, just by looking at the team play during the final 3 weeks of last season you see it

epicSocialism4tw
07-20-2011, 07:38 PM
i agree. i think with good coaching and the Tebow factor of getting the team a little more amped up and playing a little harder and with a better attitude could get the team 4 more wins.

and yes i think the Tebow factor is real, just by looking at the team play during the final 3 weeks of last season you see it

I do too. I think that Teebs is going to be a force next season.

Drek
07-20-2011, 09:39 PM
Your vision requires a buttload of "ifs" to materialize, and that just isn't how things generally work in the NFL.

The defense, in particular, will be a work in progress, and as such, doesn't figure to be able to consistently keep opponents from scoring... which is what a young QB needs from his defense.

If the Fox administration's first draft turns out to be solid, I'd be content irrespective of what the team's won-loss record turns out to be.

Hence why I said "hypothetical". Of course its not likely. If it was I wouldn't have made two posts in this thread outlining how we've been uniquely ****ed over by this labor dispute.

Has any other team in the league changed GM, HC, DC, and effectively OC while also entering a QB controversy between last year's starter and a first round pick? Not that I know of. Seems like the kind of sweeping changes you need face time with players and personnel to sort out. Exactly the kind of thing you lose with a lockout.

Lev Vyvanse
07-20-2011, 09:43 PM
Hence why I said "hypothetical". Of course its not likely. If it was I wouldn't have made two posts in this thread outlining how we've been uniquely ****ed over by this labor dispute.

Has any other team in the league changed GM, HC, DC, and effectively OC while also entering a QB controversy between last year's starter and a first round pick? Not that I know of. Seems like the kind of sweeping changes you need face time with players and personnel to sort out. Exactly the kind of thing you lose with a lockout.

Why have we effectively changed OC's?

Inkana7
07-21-2011, 12:30 AM
Why have we effectively changed OC's?

He's assuming Josh was basically the OC last year.

Agamemnon
07-21-2011, 04:14 AM
Meanwhile the offense would need Tebow to first take over as QB then take the league by storm and out-perform 90% of the projections for him.

What projections are people making?

Here are mine (being as objective as possible):

Attempts: 400
Completions: 230
Passing yards: 3150
YPA: 7.5
Passing TDs: 20
Interceptions: 15
Comp %: 57
Passer Rating: 81.9

Rushing attempts: 120
Rushing yards: 700
YPA: 5.8
Rushing TDs: 12

The passing numbers are far from overwhelming (and I won't be surprised if he exceeds them) but 32 total TDs (which I think is very realistic looking at his ability to score on the ground) would certainly go a long way towards making our offense competitive. Keep in mind that we scored roughly 25 ppg in Tebow's first three starts, and that he accounted for 7 total TDs in that span. Tebow really doesn't need to have pretty stats as a passer to make our offense potent.

Now as to our defense... :unamused:

Agamemnon
07-21-2011, 04:20 AM
Why have we effectively changed OC's?

We haven't. Nor have we changed offensive schemes. What will change will be the playcalling. I'm going to guess that we'll be running A LOT more and we'll probably be running spread formations quite a bit less. But the playbook is probably going to be 80-90% the same and make use of the same terminology.

Drek
07-21-2011, 02:14 PM
We haven't. Nor have we changed offensive schemes. What will change will be the playcalling. I'm going to guess that we'll be running A LOT more and we'll probably be running spread formations quite a bit less. But the playbook is probably going to be 80-90% the same and make use of the same terminology.

McCoy spent his brief QB career bouncing around west coast offenses. He then went to a very run focused Panthers offense as QB coach. After that he came here with McDaniels who ran the show with an iron fist and moved us further and further towards a full on Mike Martz-esque pass, pass, pass, punt style of spread.

Even with McCoy comment that the system will remain largely unchanged that doesn't jive with what Fox has been saying, about a greatly improved, new style of running game. Nor does it fit with the comments about us having a balance between pass and run, something McDaniels didn't even seem to recognize.

There will be a massive change on how the offense is implemented. Even if the X's and O's aren't dramatically altered (though the running scheme likely will be) the situational usage of plays will be completely different.

And as we go further down the road I'd expect our offense to depart further from McDaniels' system and towards something McCoy thinks works best.

Agamemnon
07-21-2011, 04:46 PM
McCoy spent his brief QB career bouncing around west coast offenses. He then went to a very run focused Panthers offense as QB coach. After that he came here with McDaniels who ran the show with an iron fist and moved us further and further towards a full on Mike Martz-esque pass, pass, pass, punt style of spread.

Even with McCoy comment that the system will remain largely unchanged that doesn't jive with what Fox has been saying, about a greatly improved, new style of running game. Nor does it fit with the comments about us having a balance between pass and run, something McDaniels didn't even seem to recognize.

There will be a massive change on how the offense is implemented. Even if the X's and O's aren't dramatically altered (though the running scheme likely will be) the situational usage of plays will be completely different.

And as we go further down the road I'd expect our offense to depart further from McDaniels' system and towards something McCoy thinks works best.

I think you're confusing changes in playcalling and offensive philosophy with a scheme change. They are two different things. McD's playbook has all the stuff in it to do what Fox is talking about. It has I formation and zone blocking. It's just that those things weren't emphasized when McD was running things.

The point is that the playbook and terminology are not changing so much as the playcalling, gameplanning, and overall philosophy (thank god, I hate McD's passing game obsession). It's going to look very different to us fans, but it's not going to be the same as bringing in a completely different offensive scheme.

As far as changes to the playbook (system) in the future go, I'm sure things will change a bit this year. If McCoy sticks around I'm sure it will change a bit every year. At the same time I would expect the terminology to mostly stay the same, because changing terminology would be pointless and only cause issues.

Drek
07-21-2011, 05:32 PM
1. the way they run I form, zone blocking, etc. will likely see some tweaks.

2. how they coach the offense and what plays they emphasize will likely change.

3. McCoy will likely call the game very differently from McDaniels, and even very differently than he did after McDaniels was dismissed, since he would then get to install the offense in camp based on what he wants to do.

What you describe is not in conflict with what I was saying. But up until the last few games of last year we had McDaniels calling all the plays on offense. Even when that changed McCoy was trying to make due with McDaniels leftovers. This is effectively a new OC going forward. Is it an OC who will run a dramatically different system? They claim he won't. But When Nolan left here and Martindale took over we had a different DC, did we not? Its not particularly different from that now, as McDaniels limited everyone else's ability to do their jobs within his offense.

Agamemnon
07-22-2011, 03:57 AM
1. the way they run I form, zone blocking, etc. will likely see some tweaks.

2. how they coach the offense and what plays they emphasize will likely change.

3. McCoy will likely call the game very differently from McDaniels, and even very differently than he did after McDaniels was dismissed, since he would then get to install the offense in camp based on what he wants to do.

What you describe is not in conflict with what I was saying. But up until the last few games of last year we had McDaniels calling all the plays on offense. Even when that changed McCoy was trying to make due with McDaniels leftovers. This is effectively a new OC going forward. Is it an OC who will run a dramatically different system? They claim he won't. But When Nolan left here and Martindale took over we had a different DC, did we not? Its not particularly different from that now, as McDaniels limited everyone else's ability to do their jobs within his offense.

I don't particularly disagree with what you are saying, except to say that I think you are downplaying McCoy's role as OC last year. While McD certainly made the final decisions, I'm pretty sure McCoy had a fair bit of input in things. He certainly was involved in the coaching of the players. I don't see him as a new OC. I simply see him as being much more empowered now. That said, he's still going to be doing what his HC wants (run-heavy) just like before. That's really where the biggest difference lies. Fox is pretty much the anti-McDaniels (pretty sure that's a major reason he was hired).

Drek
07-22-2011, 05:16 AM
I don't particularly disagree with what you are saying, except to say that I think you are downplaying McCoy's role as OC last year. While McD certainly made the final decisions, I'm pretty sure McCoy had a fair bit of input in things. He certainly was involved in the coaching of the players. I don't see him as a new OC. I simply see him as being much more empowered now. That said, he's still going to be doing what his HC wants (run-heavy) just like before. That's really where the biggest difference lies. Fox is pretty much the anti-McDaniels (pretty sure that's a major reason he was hired).

As as a result McCoy is going to run the offense like a completely different OC.

And McDaniels' biggest failing as a head coach was an unwillingness to let anyone just do their jobs. I doubt McCoy was treated like much more than a QB coach. Hell, McDaniels pushed Nolan out the door by meddling with his defense. I'd imagine there are a TON of things McCoy wanted to try that he will now be free to put in place. The core of the playbook might stay the same but the philosophy is completely different, and that is what matters most.

Old Dude
07-22-2011, 08:46 AM
The longer it takes, the more we're doomed.

Agamemnon
07-22-2011, 01:07 PM
The longer it takes, the more we're doomed.

The majority of teams are in the same boat. It's not like we were going to be a Super Bowl contender either way.

cutthemdown
07-22-2011, 04:57 PM
I don't see how the Broncos are in good shape at all. So much missed time in minicamps, and in film study, and in playbook study, and learning new lingo on both offense and defense. One positive, I suppose, is that we play in the AFC West, and those guys can lose to anyone.

Not to mention the division has some real playmakers in it our young defense will be contending with. Rivers, Jackson, Gates, Bowe, Charles, McFadden, Zach Miller, Those guys can make plays at a big time level. We have our work cut out for us to get ready.

Its all good though im more interested in just seeing if Tebow is a gamer, we dont need came to find that out. We will be able to tell by week 8 IMO.