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View Full Version : OT: The Rutgers Suicide Issue


broncs2bowl
07-19-2011, 12:02 AM
I'm sure many of you are aware of what happend this past year with the Rutgers Suicide Scandal.
A young man named Tyler Clementi committed suicide after realizing a video was streamed of him in his dorm during his most intimate moment with his boyfriend. The two charged of video taping were Dharun Ravi and Molly Wei from Plainsboro, NJ. Dharun Ravi was the one who had actually tweeted the information of what Tyler was doing to everyone and was the mastermind of the camera as well as the whole situation. Molly Wei was simply the room in which Ravi decided to view his webcam.

I just wanted to know different peoples thoughts on this situation even if the news might be kind of old. It is still offseason!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/nyregion/rutgers-roommate-faces-hate-crime-charges-in-spying-suicide.html?_r=1&ref=dharunravi

broncocalijohn
07-19-2011, 12:23 AM
Going for the touchy, feel good story are you broncs2bowl?

broncs2bowl
07-19-2011, 12:25 AM
Going for the touchy, feel good story are you broncs2bowl?

I actually happen to know both Ravi and Wei....and liked them for the time i had known them.

broncocalijohn
07-19-2011, 12:35 AM
Well, the dude did a pretty mean thing and lucky his roomie killed himself instead of killed your buddy. Only thing they can get him on is unathorized filming I guess. But, such an old story and has been discussed. Are they going to court or something to actually bring this up months later?

DBroncos4life
07-19-2011, 12:42 AM
A hate crime? That is a stretch IMO. I think they are guilty of something but, really it's a very hard case to think about.

Archer81
07-19-2011, 12:51 AM
The dude who did the filming is more or less responsible for the death of another human being.

And for what its worth, I hate the term hate crime. Murder is not exactly a crime of love. If you kill someone intentionally, you had to hate them to do it. Seems redundant to say "hate crime".

:Broncos:

vancejohnson82
07-19-2011, 01:01 AM
its 2nd degree murder...I live in Newark, this was a really big deal last year and Rutgers did a great job of shutting down some of the PR

bronco0608
07-19-2011, 01:12 AM
its 2nd degree murder...I live in Newark, this was a really big deal last year and Rutgers did a great job of shutting down some of the PR

2nd degree murder? How in the world? Ravi didn't kill the gay dude. The gay dude killed himself.

They might get this kid on some obscure law, but they sure as heck aren't going to get him on a murder charge.

All I see is invasion of privacy, peeping tom stuff. Ravi will get slaughtered in a civil lawsuit, but criminal he should walk. I heard the tape isn't even that bad.

But who knows what kind of crazy law New Jersey is trying to prosecute him under.

DBroncos4life
07-19-2011, 01:16 AM
The dude who did the filming is more or less responsible for the death of another human being.

And for what its worth, I hate the term hate crime. Murder is not exactly a crime of love. If you kill someone intentionally, you had to hate them to do it. Seems redundant to say "hate crime".

:Broncos:

This is why I think it's hard case. I wouldn't call it murder but I agree that without the other guys actions odds are he wouldn't have killed himself (99.9999% sure he wouldn't have).

Now days with the cyber bullies and like this case they need a new term and new laws IMO.

Archer81
07-19-2011, 01:16 AM
2nd degree murder? How in the world? Ravi didn't kill the gay dude. The gay dude killed himself.

They might get this kid on some obscure law, but they sure as heck aren't going to get him on a murder charge.

All I see is invasion of privacy, peeping tom stuff. Ravi will get slaughtered in a civil lawsuit, but criminal he should walk. I heard the tape isn't even that bad.

But who knows what kind of crazy law New Jersey is trying to prosecute him under.


He wouldnt have if he was not pushed to it.

:Broncos:

DBroncos4life
07-19-2011, 01:24 AM
2nd degree murder? How in the world? Ravi didn't kill the gay dude. The gay dude killed himself.

They might get this kid on some obscure law, but they sure as heck aren't going to get him on a murder charge.

All I see is invasion of privacy, peeping tom stuff. Ravi will get slaughtered in a civil lawsuit, but criminal he should walk. I heard the tape isn't even that bad.

But who knows what kind of crazy law New Jersey is trying to prosecute him under.

Really it's not much different then buying beer for a minor and they end up dying. Your actions played a pretty large part with them being dead.

vancejohnson82
07-19-2011, 01:52 AM
Really it's not much different then buying beer for a minor and they end up dying. Your actions played a pretty large part with them being dead.

exactly...its a direct action leading to the death of another

maybe manslaughter? I dont know....depends on how the case goes i guess

NUB
07-19-2011, 02:06 AM
Depends on how malicious his intentions were I would think.

myMind
07-19-2011, 02:10 AM
Sad, no matter whats happens after the fact.
Not too long ago, the punishment for the equivalent of this voyeur's crimes would be severe.
The anonymity found in technology muddies the waters of morality and personal accountabilty.

ZachKC
07-19-2011, 02:33 AM
He wouldnt have if he was not pushed to it.

:Broncos:

I hope none of your posts upset me so much that I decide to off myself.

In your world you would be in serious trouble. I never would have done it if you had not pushed me by posting.

DBroncos4life
07-19-2011, 02:52 AM
I hope none of your posts upset me so much that I decide to off myself.

In your world you would be in serious trouble. I never would have done it if you had not pushed me by posting.

Not even close to the same thing and you ****ing know it.

ZachKC
07-19-2011, 03:17 AM
Not even close to the same thing and you ****ing know it.

I disagree...it is an exaggeration but not even close? I disagree.

He put the whole case on the eggshell nature of the inside of the victims head.

ZachKC
07-19-2011, 03:27 AM
This is a post from Chiefs Planet I made last year when this happened.

This is an interesting issue the more I think about it...

Nothing points to the kid being a complete soulless bastard. I think everyone is assuming had he known the recuperations of what he did he wouldn't have done it.

With that assumption...

Where is the line between your actions effecting someone no matter what that intent and someone letting that action take them to their grave.

What if I had some crazy thing in my head where Pez drove me bat **** crazy. Made me depressed and angry. My roomie loves Pez and eats it anyway. I kill myself. Him having that Pez was the catalyst for my death. I wouldn't have done had he not been popping those lil candies but surely he can't be held liable for my Pezphobia.

Even though it seems only charges are being brought up on invasion of privacy type stuff...

This suicide isn't as silly an non nonsensical as my little made up Pez story. I have seen people I know transition from a straight lifestyle to an openly homosexual life style some of them with success and some of them not so much. The folks that seemed to do it right did it pretty slowly...it was all carefully thought out considering the social dynamics of family, close friends, and strangers. And that process was hard enough.

I could only imagine that someone who is not outed on their terms would be going through a crazy traumatic experience. You are talking about a process that I have seen take years happen in a few secs. Your identity...the way people identify you and treat you is shaken up. Total game changer.

Wacky to think about.

DBroncos4life
07-19-2011, 04:46 AM
I disagree...it is an exaggeration but not even close? I disagree.

He put the whole case on the eggshell nature of the inside of the victims head.
Which would happen first in the real world or at a college campus. Someone walking up to you and saying man you are that dude that got owned in a message board OR man you are that duded that I saw ****ing another dude?

A message board is anonymous, being filmed isn't.

ZachKC
07-19-2011, 04:57 AM
Which would happen first in the real world or at a college campus. Someone walking up to you and saying man you are that dude that got owned in a message board OR man you are that duded that I saw ****ing another dude?

A message board is anonymous, being filmed isn't.

That connection means little. My problem is that the distinguishing factor is being placed in the eggshell nature of the victims head and not the intent.

I am not claiming the offending party to be innocent I am just not putting the responsibility for the death on this person. I think this person had to be pretty far towards the edge for this to be the catalyst that brings about suicide.

Kaylore
07-19-2011, 06:24 AM
I agree with Zach. It's a touchy area and what they did was cruel, but they didn't "force him to murder himself" unfortunately. I applaud the stance people are taking to stop bullying in a non-legal way. However, legally speaking, its a slippery slope when we want to punish someone for another person's suicide - even if they directly contributed, maliciously even, to that person feeling worse about themselves.

alkemical
07-19-2011, 06:29 AM
So what's your take on those kids that killed themselves after myspace/facebook stalking?

Ex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Megan_Meier

RhymesayersDU
07-19-2011, 07:04 AM
Agree with Zach. ****ty thing to do to film somebody like that, but murder? Insane. They're guilty of something, and if you want to give the kids the maximum punishment on that, fine, but they did not murder this guy, IMO.

jhns
07-19-2011, 07:10 AM
2nd degree murder? How in the world? Ravi didn't kill the gay dude. The gay dude killed himself.

They might get this kid on some obscure law, but they sure as heck aren't going to get him on a murder charge.

All I see is invasion of privacy, peeping tom stuff. Ravi will get slaughtered in a civil lawsuit, but criminal he should walk. I heard the tape isn't even that bad.

But who knows what kind of crazy law New Jersey is trying to prosecute him under.

This. The guy didn't kill the other kid. That kid had to already be pretty f'd up to be able to kill himself. The suicide is all on the kid that killed himself. The guy video taping should be in trouble for invasion of privacy/illegal recording.

RhymesayersDU
07-19-2011, 07:16 AM
That kid had to already be pretty f'd up to be able to kill himself.

See, I tend to agree with this from a common sense standpoint, but I do wonder what a psychiatrist would say about that. It could actually be an interesting discussion.

alkemical
07-19-2011, 07:23 AM
People that break other people to the point that they kill themselves, are responsible for their death.

Just like any other abuser/bully.

Beantown Bronco
07-19-2011, 07:38 AM
its 2nd degree murder...I live in Newark, this was a really big deal last year and Rutgers did a great job of shutting down some of the PR

2nd degree murder? Please. Google "Phoebe Prince" if you've never heard of the case. She was literally subjected to verbal and physical beatings, bullying, etc. for months by a large group of high school classmates. They were DIRECTLY responsible for her suicide. And none of them faced any real charges, nor did they see a day in jail.

Here's a brief summary of the case for those that missed it:

On March 29, 2010, Northwestern District Attorney Elizabeth Scheibel announced at a press conference[24] that nine teenagers from South Hadley High School were indicted as adults on felony charges by a Hampshire County grand jury. Charges ranged from statutory rape for the two male teenagers involved (both adults under Massachusetts law) to violation of civil rights, criminal harassment, disturbance of a school assembly, and stalking. Additional delinquency complaints were also filed against the three female minors indicted by the grand jury. One was charged with assault with a deadly weapon for throwing a can at Phoebe Prince. A separate delinquency complaint was filed against one of the three female minors for assault and battery against another victim at South Hadley High School (a girl who was attacked at school after appearing in a TV news report describing the bullying that took place at South Hadley High School).[25] At least four of these six students reportedly were still attending South Hadley High School when the charges were announced.[26][26][27][28][29][30]

In her statement, D.A. Scheibel directly contradicted previous claims by school Superintendent Gus Sayer that school officials had been unaware of the bullying at the school:

Contrary to previously published reports, Phoebe’s harassment was common knowledge to most of the South Hadley High School student body. The investigation has revealed that certain faculty, staff and administrators of the high school also were alerted to the harassment of Phoebe Prince before her death. Prior to Phoebe’s death, her mother spoke with at least two school staff members about the harassment Phoebe had reported to her.
Some bystanders, including at least four students and two faculty members, intervened while the harassment was occurring or reported it to administrators. A lack of understanding of harassment associated with teen dating relationships seems to have been prevalent at South Hadley High School. That, in turn, brought an inconsistent interpretation in enforcement in the school’s code of conduct when incidents were observed and reported.

In reviewing this investigation, we’ve considered whether or not the actions or omissions to act by faculty, staff and administrators of the South Hadley public schools individually, or collectively, amounted to criminal behavior. In our opinion, it did not. Nevertheless, the actions or inactions of some adults at the school are troublesome.[31][32]

Scheibel indicated that the investigation was ongoing and that charges against additional South Hadley students were likely. She urged schools to adopt anti-bullying awareness and training programs for staff and students and expressed the wishes of the Prince family to refrain from vigilantism and to seek justice only through the criminal justice system.[28] "Now is not the time for retributions or reprisals," Scheibel said.[33]

Two days after the District Attorney's news conference, school superintendent Gus Sayer again denied that school administrators had ignored the bullying of Phoebe Prince.[34][35] South Hadley school officials released a statement that "we have taken disciplinary action with an additional small group of students and they have been removed from the high school."[36] However, the school statement was unclear as to whether any of the accused individuals were actually expelled from the school. At least one news report stated that all of the accused were still at the school.[37]

Three of the accused pleaded not guilty through their lawyers in Hampshire Superior Court on April 6. Another three, minors under Massachusetts law (under age 17), pleaded not guilty to delinquency charges on April 8 in Franklin-Hampshire Juvenile Court in Hadley. The three female minors were also arraigned as youthful offenders on the adult felony charges.[38][39] All six defendants waived their right to appear in court and did not appear at their arraignment hearings. All were ordered to stay away from the Prince family.[39][40][41]

Initial media reports that nine teenagers had been charged were incorrect and were caused by DA Scheibel's sequential listing of the grand jury and Juvenile Court charges in her press conference. The confusion came about because Scheibel could not release the names of those charged in the juvenile delinquency complaints because of confidentiality laws. However, subsequently it has been confirmed that there were only six teenagers charged in all.[42][43][44]

On the day of Prince's suicide, three of the accused, including the male football player who had earlier had the relationship with Prince, allegedly engaged in persistent taunting and harassment of Prince at school, in the library and school auditorium. One of the accused allegedly followed Prince home from school in a friend's car, threw an empty can at her, and yelled an insult. It was right after this final incident that Phoebe Prince hanged herself at home.[43][45][46]

Copies of the court documents with the full details of the case against the three female minors were posted on a CNN webpage.[47]

In May 2011, the case was resolved, after agreements to plead guilty to lesser charges. All of the defendants were placed on probation, and a few were also sentenced to community service.

Captain 'Dre
07-19-2011, 08:06 AM
Depends on how malicious his intentions were I would think.

It sounds like the intent was to humiliate, which makes the filmer an awful human being.... but not necessarily a criminal.

I'm not sure what the law says about such circumstances, or what a jury would decide.

jhns
07-19-2011, 08:07 AM
People that break other people to the point that they kill themselves, are responsible for their death.

Just like any other abuser/bully.

That is a typical retarded response from you. The kid pulled a stupid prank. It is not his fault that the other kid is that ashamed of himself. This goes a lot deeper than the video. That kid already thought about suicide and was severely depressed. He could have looked for help. Instead he took the pussy route. This is not the fault of the other dumb kid. What do you think would have happened if his parents surprised him once and saw something like this? I bet the same thing happens. He kills himself.

Why would we charge someone extra for messing with an unstable kid? It isn't like they could have known. It seems to me like the parents are to blame. They sent an unstable kid off to a very stressful environment, by himself.

kappys
07-19-2011, 08:09 AM
This is a post from Chiefs Planet I made last year when this happened.

This is an interesting issue the more I think about it...

Nothing points to the kid being a complete soulless bastard. I think everyone is assuming had he known the recuperations of what he did he wouldn't have done it.

With that assumption...

Where is the line between your actions effecting someone no matter what that intent and someone letting that action take them to their grave.

What if I had some crazy thing in my head where Pez drove me bat **** crazy. Made me depressed and angry. My roomie loves Pez and eats it anyway. I kill myself. Him having that Pez was the catalyst for my death. I wouldn't have done had he not been popping those lil candies but surely he can't be held liable for my Pezphobia.

Even though it seems only charges are being brought up on invasion of privacy type stuff...

This suicide isn't as silly an non nonsensical as my little made up Pez story. I have seen people I know transition from a straight lifestyle to an openly homosexual life style some of them with success and some of them not so much. The folks that seemed to do it right did it pretty slowly...it was all carefully thought out considering the social dynamics of family, close friends, and strangers. And that process was hard enough.

I could only imagine that someone who is not outed on their terms would be going through a crazy traumatic experience. You are talking about a process that I have seen take years happen in a few secs. Your identity...the way people identify you and treat you is shaken up. Total game changer.

Wacky to think about.

I tend to agree- however this is still the equivalent of sneaking into somebody's room and without their knowledge/consent taping them having sex and then distributing it. Not sure what exactly the penalty is for that - aside from civil liability which is probably small for a college kid who doesn't have anything - a few years in the slammer at a minimum is justified

alkemical
07-19-2011, 08:39 AM
That is a typical retarded response from you. The kid pulled a stupid prank. It is not his fault that the other kid is that ashamed of himself. This goes a lot deeper than the video. That kid already thought about suicide and was severely depressed. He could have looked for help. Instead he took the p***Y route. This is not the fault of the other dumb kid. What do you think would have happened if his parents surprised him once and saw something like this? I bet the same thing happens. He kills himself.

Why would we charge someone extra for messing with an unstable kid? It isn't like they could have known. It seems to me like the parents are to blame. They sent an unstable kid off to a very stressful environment, by himself.


Uh-huh.

That One Guy
07-19-2011, 08:48 AM
I say all charges should be dropped if someone kills themself before the trial. Make it a punishment for weak ass people killing themselves.

That said, if you want to get into who was responsible for someone dying, cheating wives/husbands should be held responsible for their own death if their spouse walks on in them getting double teamed and opens up with an uzi. I mean, if you're responsible for the actions that occurred while someone was mentally distressed...

jhns
07-19-2011, 08:55 AM
I say all charges should be dropped if someone kills themself before the trial. Make it a punishment for weak ass people killing themselves.

That said, if you want to get into who was responsible for someone dying, cheating wives/husbands should be held responsible for their own death if their spouse walks on in them getting double teamed and opens up with an uzi. I mean, if you're responsible for the actions that occurred while someone was mentally distressed...

Exactly. We don't charge people with murder if they don't murder someone. No one could ever prove that this kid wasn't going to kill himself anyways. It is very obvious that he was extremely ashamed of who he was.

alkemical
07-19-2011, 08:56 AM
I say all charges should be dropped if someone kills themself before the trial. Make it a punishment for weak ass people killing themselves.

That said, if you want to get into who was responsible for someone dying, cheating wives/husbands should be held responsible for their own death if their spouse walks on in them getting double teamed and opens up with an uzi. I mean, if you're responsible for the actions that occurred while someone was mentally distressed...

I think women who get raped, really wanted it. I mean, if she didn't want it - she wouldn't have dressed that way.

alkemical
07-19-2011, 09:00 AM
Exactly. We don't charge people with murder if they don't murder someone. No one could ever prove that this kid wasn't going to kill himself anyways. It is very obvious that he was extremely ashamed of who he was.

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2010/02/04/image6173987x.jpg

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2010/01/27/image6146382x.jpg

This "irish slut" must have been ashamed of herself. (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-6173960-504083.html)

alkemical
07-19-2011, 09:01 AM
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSC6UkJZrH5sytyNhjia7x5589jpP1sf qSXiXrLMYWem5ud8qLo

Her too (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Megan_Meier)

ZachKC
07-19-2011, 09:09 AM
I tend to agree- however this is still the equivalent of sneaking into somebody's room and without their knowledge/consent taping them having sex and then distributing it. Not sure what exactly the penalty is for that - aside from civil liability which is probably small for a college kid who doesn't have anything - a few years in the slammer at a minimum is justified

Agreed

jhns
07-19-2011, 09:11 AM
I think women who get raped, really wanted it. I mean, if she didn't want it - she wouldn't have dressed that way.

Wtf? You think rape is the same thing as anything discussed in this thread? You realpy are slow.

alkemical
07-19-2011, 09:12 AM
Wtf? You think rape is the same thing as anything discussed in this thread? You realpy are slow.

Which is still faster than you are! You want to blame the victims, and not the the cause or root of the problem.


Exactly. We don't charge people with murder if they don't murder someone. No one could ever prove that this kid wasn't going to kill himself anyways. It is very obvious that he was extremely ashamed of who he was.

Hey "speedy" - what's "attempted murder"? Or "conspiracy to commit murder"?

In this case, it should be homicide - as with any other bullying case that results in suicide where there is a demonstrable link that torture and abuse led to suicide.

jhns
07-19-2011, 09:14 AM
http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2010/02/04/image6173987x.jpg

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2010/01/27/image6146382x.jpg

This "irish slut" must have been ashamed of herself. (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-6173960-504083.html)

She was a weak individual. This isn't even close to the same situation though...

alkemical
07-19-2011, 09:15 AM
She was a weak individual. This isn't even close to the same situation though...

Mr. tough guy taking on a teenaged dead girl. Classy. Make sure you tell her parents that in person, face to face for me.

Sure it is, it's bullying.

jhns
07-19-2011, 09:18 AM
Which is still faster than you are! You want to blame the victims, and not the the cause or root of the problem.



Hey "speedy" - what's "attempted murder"? Or "conspiracy to commit murder"?

In this case, it should be homicide - as with any other bullying case that results in suicide where there is a demonstrable link that torture and abuse led to suicide.

I do blame the "victim" for what he did to himself. You want to blame others for his actions....

I don't get what you are asking? For one, those are not murder charges. Second, they are given to people that try killing someone. The only person that tried killing anyone in this case, was the kid that killed himself.

You are an idiot.

alkemical
07-19-2011, 09:19 AM
I do blame the "victim" for what he did to himself. You want to blame others for his actions....

I don't get what you are asking? For one, those are not murder charges. Second, they are given to people that try killing someone. The only person that tried killing anyone in this case, was the kid that killed himself.

You are an idiot.

Never, ever procreate. cut your own balls off now.

jhns
07-19-2011, 09:22 AM
Mr. tough guy taking on a teenaged dead girl. Classy. Make sure you tell her parents that in person, face to face for me.

Sure it is, it's bullying.

It takes a pretty weak individual to kill themselves. Sorry, just stating facts. Many people are bullied, or have far more tragic events happen to them, and don't kill themselves.

One was an isolated incident. The other was repeated incidents over a long period of time and included physical abuse. Again, you are an idiot.

alkemical
07-19-2011, 09:23 AM
It takes a pretty weak individual to kill themselves. Sorry, just stating facts. Many people are bullied, or have far more tragic events happen to them, and don't kill themselves.

One was an isolated incident. The other was repeated incidents over a long period of time and included physical abuse. Again, you are an idiot.

Trolling much?

jhns
07-19-2011, 09:24 AM
Never, ever procreate. cut your own balls off now.

We have seen your picture and read your posts. I hope you take your own advice.

jhns
07-19-2011, 09:25 AM
Trolling much?

Nope. Just telling it like it is.

If you kill yourself because I call you an idiot, you are still the only one to blame for your death.

alkemical
07-19-2011, 09:26 AM
Nope. Just telling it like it is.

Uh-huh.

Second thought, just sew your vagina shut.

jhns
07-19-2011, 09:28 AM
Uh-huh.

Second thought, just sew your vagina shut.

LOL

Says the chick crying about everything.

Mediator12
07-19-2011, 09:31 AM
Love the internet posturing guys. That rep is really worth the effort?

This is a crime, but its nowhere near the standard of proof for wrongful death let alone murder. The crime is in the details of how the video was obtained and then distributed without consent. The intent was to injure this persons reputation and life choice. That is simply a civil matter. In that, I hope the kids, And I stress kids, that made this get such a poor ruling against them they never see a penny for the rest of their lives. Furthermore, I also hope they get labeled as sexual predators and have to register with all the major reporting agencies. In some states, what they did could be labeled as sexual harassment. Personally, I hope that goes on their permanent record and every place they apply to work has to be told of what they did in detail.

Beantown Bronco
07-19-2011, 09:44 AM
Personally, I hope that goes on their permanent record and every place they apply to work has to be told of what they did in detail.

That might actually help them gain employ in some workplaces.

Archer81
07-19-2011, 10:28 AM
I hope none of your posts upset me so much that I decide to off myself.

In your world you would be in serious trouble. I never would have done it if you had not pushed me by posting.


Yeah...posting words on a message board is totally the same as filming you having sex with another man and then sending it to everyone you know.

Totally the same.

:Broncos:

broncocalijohn
07-19-2011, 10:33 AM
Yeah...posting words on a message board is totally the same as filming you having sex with another man and then sending it to everyone you know.

Totally the same.

:Broncos:

While I think it is way more damaging for a person to be outed as gay on film and sending to everyone than if it was a sex film of two straight people, BUT does that mean one should be more of a punishment than the other? If we are going by law, it should be the same punishment regardless. Unless he had actions before of showing his hate towards gays, he probably would not be convicted of a hate crime. We all know the kid probably doesn't kill himself if this was a video of two heteros. His action of killing himself is not a normal reaction especially since he is an adult.

That One Guy
07-19-2011, 10:33 AM
Love the internet posturing guys. That rep is really worth the effort?

This is a crime, but its nowhere near the standard of proof for wrongful death let alone murder. The crime is in the details of how the video was obtained and then distributed without consent. The intent was to injure this persons reputation and life choice. That is simply a civil matter. In that, I hope the kids, And I stress kids, that made this get such a poor ruling against them they never see a penny for the rest of their lives. Furthermore, I also hope they get labeled as sexual predators and have to register with all the major reporting agencies. In some states, what they did could be labeled as sexual harassment. Personally, I hope that goes on their permanent record and every place they apply to work has to be told of what they did in detail.

It sounds like you recognize there's not a lot legally they could be responsible for and just want them to get their life F'ed because it's the right thing to do.

I mean, where do you draw the line? What if the videotaper gets up in front of a group of friends instead and says "Hey guys, I don't appreciate that my roommate is keeping secrets. He's gay. I walked in on him and another guy going at it once." Then the gay guy commits suicide from the embarrassment. Is it still murder? Or is it only considered for murder because it was videotaped and that makes it more villainous? It's just a slippery slope when you start defining murder by "Well, X led to Y which led to Z. So X caused Z".

Archer81
07-19-2011, 10:41 AM
While I think it is way more damaging for a person to be outed as gay on film and sending to everyone than if it was a sex film of two straight people, BUT does that mean one should be more of a punishment than the other? If we are going by law, it should be the same punishment regardless. Unless he had actions before of showing his hate towards gays, he probably would not be convicted of a hate crime. We all know the kid probably doesn't kill himself if this was a video of two heteros. His action of killing himself is not a normal reaction especially since he is an adult.


It honestly depends on how out the kid who killed himself was. If he was totally out what difference to him would it have made if people saw him boning another dude? Embarassing, but not suicide worthy. And time for a new roomie.

If he was not out then sending a webcast of him having sex just because it was with another guy is malicious. Did the roommate doing the webcast kill the gay dude? No. Is he responsible for the death of another person? Yes.

I am not usually forgiving or understanding of people who kill themselves. I find it to be a very permanent solution to a temporary problem. But I am rational most of the time, so I understand enough to know that I lack the understanding to comprehend the pain someone who does commit suicide might be in before the act.

:Broncos:

That One Guy
07-19-2011, 10:45 AM
It honestly depends on how out the kid who killed himself was. If he was totally out what difference to him would it have made if people saw him boning another dude? Embarassing, but not suicide worthy. And time for a new roomie.

If he was not out then sending a webcast of him having sex just because it was with another guy is malicious. Did the roommate doing the webcast kill the gay dude? No. Is he responsible for the death of another person? Yes.

I am not usually forgiving or understanding of people who kill themselves. I find it to be a very permanent solution to a temporary problem. But I am rational most of the time, so I understand enough to know that I lack the understanding to comprehend the pain someone who does commit suicide might be in before the act.

:Broncos:

Both valuable things to consider here. We can't tell if 90% of the reason they committed suicide was the new act and 10% was ongoing suffering or vice versa. I mean, just as you said above, it wasn't suicide worthy (I don't think anything is). So, if the person had already secretly made the plans to kill themselves and this was the final catalyst, is that murder still? It's about the equivalent of walking up to a person about to jump off a bridge and telling them to jump. That's not murder.

jhns
07-19-2011, 10:47 AM
Yeah...posting words on a message board is totally the same as filming you having sex with another man and then sending it to everyone you know.

Totally the same.

:Broncos:

Yeah... Filming you having sex is the exact same thing as murdering you.

Totally the same.

vancejohnson82
07-19-2011, 10:51 AM
Love the internet posturing guys. That rep is really worth the effort?

This is a crime, but its nowhere near the standard of proof for wrongful death let alone murder. The crime is in the details of how the video was obtained and then distributed without consent. The intent was to injure this persons reputation and life choice. That is simply a civil matter. In that, I hope the kids, And I stress kids, that made this get such a poor ruling against them they never see a penny for the rest of their lives. Furthermore, I also hope they get labeled as sexual predators and have to register with all the major reporting agencies. In some states, what they did could be labeled as sexual harassment. Personally, I hope that goes on their permanent record and every place they apply to work has to be told of what they did in detail.

probably the best read on the subject in this thread

Archer81
07-19-2011, 10:56 AM
Both valuable things to consider here. We can't tell if 90% of the reason they committed suicide was the new act and 10% was ongoing suffering or vice versa. I mean, just as you said above, it wasn't suicide worthy (I don't think anything is). So, if the person had already secretly made the plans to kill themselves and this was the final catalyst, is that murder still? It's about the equivalent of walking up to a person about to jump off a bridge and telling them to jump. That's not murder.


I dont believe in the Rutgers case that it was murder. It was a suicide, but would he have killed himself otherwise is the question. From what I have read (ie this article and another smaller article a month or so ago) there was no evidence that the roommate was suicidal.

If it were a prank, it was done in really poor taste to tragic results and as someone else has said it opens the filmer up to huge civil lawsuits with a much smaller burden of proof.

The example that fits the best IMO is the stock brokers in 1929. The day before they are fine. Nothing is wrong, everything is good. The day after they are jumping out of 20 story office windows because their lives are ruined, they are humilated and everyone will think less of them. Its possible that the Rutgers case followed the same storyline.

:Broncos:

That One Guy
07-19-2011, 11:04 AM
I dont believe in the Rutgers case that it was murder. It was a suicide, but would he have killed himself otherwise is the question. From what I have read (ie this article and another smaller article a month or so ago) there was no evidence that the roommate was suicidal.

If it were a prank, it was done in really poor taste to tragic results and as someone else has said it opens the filmer up to huge civil lawsuits with a much smaller burden of proof.

The example that fits the best IMO is the stock brokers in 1929. The day before they are fine. Nothing is wrong, everything is good. The day after they are jumping out of 20 story office windows because their lives are ruined, they are humilated and everyone will think less of them. Its possible that the Rutgers case followed the same storyline.

:Broncos:

We just can't start changing the parameters of the legal system to make up for grudges. In a civil suit, I'd hope that it still didn't amount to much but taking someone's money is far different than taking someone's freedom. If I ever got a big judgement against me, I'd move to the beach or the mountains and just live a life of freedom.

And as for the stock brokers, there's still something not right in your head if a work failure causes you to commit suicide.

Oh, and I also don't believe in the whole thing states have taken to recently where if you were in any way involved in a crime in which someone was murdered, you get charged with murder. Driving a get away car for a murderer does not equal murder in my opinion. States disagree with me, though.

kappys
07-19-2011, 11:09 AM
]\The crime is in the details of how the video was obtained and then distributed without consent. The intent was to injure this persons reputation and life choice. That is simply a civil matter.

This isn't murder - I agree

however videotaping someone having sex and distributing that tape deserves far more than simple civil considerations - I don't know what exactly the charges would be but I think a felony conviction and a few years in jail is warranted even if the kid didn't kill himself.

That One Guy
07-19-2011, 11:14 AM
This isn't murder - I agree

however videotaping someone having sex and distributing that tape deserves far more than simple civil considerations - I don't know what exactly the charges would be but I think a felony conviction and a few years in jail is warranted even if the kid didn't kill himself.

Invasion of privacy isn't a multi-year criminal act either.

If the person is THAT upset with it getting out, he shouldn't have been doing it. I don't want anyone taking pictures of my luscious body in the shower but if they did, I wouldn't expect them to go to prison for years. This was an invasion of privacy issue. That's all it was.

Kaylore
07-19-2011, 11:32 AM
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSC6UkJZrH5sytyNhjia7x5589jpP1sf qSXiXrLMYWem5ud8qLo

Her too (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Megan_Meier)
Those are terrible stories and certainly the kids will have live with that on their conscience. However, how can you prove this? Do you arrest every kid who was mean to these girls for murder? Manslaughter? Or is it the most recent offender who "broke the camel's back" and pushed her over the edge? Should we go back and arrest and try every single person who ever said something mean to these girls for pushing her one step closer?

I'm not arguing what these kids did wasn't cruel, disgusting or that they won't have to pay for their actions on some level. I'm just arguing that legally you cannot prove or try someone for this.

Doggcow
07-19-2011, 11:38 AM
People don't kill themselves over just one thing. It might have been a factor, but he would have gotten there eventually with or without the video tape I bet.

Archer81
07-19-2011, 11:51 AM
We just can't start changing the parameters of the legal system to make up for grudges. In a civil suit, I'd hope that it still didn't amount to much but taking someone's money is far different than taking someone's freedom. If I ever got a big judgement against me, I'd move to the beach or the mountains and just live a life of freedom.

And as for the stock brokers, there's still something not right in your head if a work failure causes you to commit suicide.

Oh, and I also don't believe in the whole thing states have taken to recently where if you were in any way involved in a crime in which someone was murdered, you get charged with murder. Driving a get away car for a murderer does not equal murder in my opinion. States disagree with me, though.


I dont think suicide is the result of a logical decision. Like I said, permanent solution to a temporary problem. The actions the filmed kid took suggests he was not out. He was not at the point of being out to people he knows, and having a sex tape out there clearly was too much for what he was prepared to deal with.

:Broncos:

DBroncos4life
07-19-2011, 12:15 PM
Love the internet posturing guys. That rep is really worth the effort?

This is a crime, but its nowhere near the standard of proof for wrongful death let alone murder. The crime is in the details of how the video was obtained and then distributed without consent. The intent was to injure this persons reputation and life choice. That is simply a civil matter. In that, I hope the kids, And I stress kids, that made this get such a poor ruling against them they never see a penny for the rest of their lives. Furthermore, I also hope they get labeled as sexual predators and have to register with all the major reporting agencies. In some states, what they did could be labeled as sexual harassment. Personally, I hope that goes on their permanent record and every place they apply to work has to be told of what they did in detail.

I can agree with that 100%.

DHallblows
07-19-2011, 12:22 PM
There is absolutely no murder here, no homicide, no manslaughter. I would hope they were convicted to the highest severity of whatever they could be convicted of...but this isn't murder. And expecting some sort of murder conviction is silly to expect.

However, Dharun Ravi and Molly Wei are 2 pieces of **** and I would hope that broncs2bowl is no longer in contact with them. And if you still talk to them, broncs2bowl, I would hope you've informed them that their actions are directly related to the death of a human being and Tyler Clementi should weigh heavily on their conscience for the rest of their lives.

Doggcow
07-19-2011, 12:44 PM
Seriously though. How are they any more responsible then the other hundreds, or thousands of things that put him to the point where he could kill himself?

Bad timing doesn't equal murder.

DBroncos4life
07-19-2011, 12:52 PM
Seriously though. How are they any more responsible then the other hundreds, or thousands of things that put him to the point where he could kill himself?

Bad timing doesn't equal murder.

We will never know because he did KILL himself AFTER the video and not the hundreds of thousands of other issues he may or may not have had.

Like I said I don't think its murder either but if the DA thinks it can prove it then maybe there is more to this then what is being said. Also I don't feel it is a hate crime but I think that will be easier to get to stick so there maybe some justice in this after all.

That One Guy
07-19-2011, 01:09 PM
We will never know because he did KILL himself AFTER the video and not the hundreds of thousands of other issues he may or may not have had.

Like I said I don't think its murder either but if the DA thinks it can prove it then maybe there is more to this then what is being said. Also I don't feel it is a hate crime but I think that will be easier to get to stick so there maybe some justice in this after all.

The last person I knew to commit suicide had a liver issue. They were trying to determine what exactly was wrong but they knew something was really off. He had been a big drinker before and when they found out, he and his new wife both agreed to stop drinking together to support him. Their anniversary rolled around and he decided it'd be OK to suspend their agreement for a bottle of wine. Apparently she thought it was no small issue and at some point yelled "Fine, if you want to kill yourself, go ahead!". He stormed off and a few seconds later she heard the gunshot.

The guy was a combat veteran, had just the liver health issue, but was quite well liked, newly but happily married and showed no signs of being suicidal at all. Absolutely NOBODY knew he had any depression issues or anything. He seemed to be taking the liver thing well and nobody thought it was an issue.

Place blame for me, by your above standards, if you would.

Mogulseeker
07-19-2011, 01:10 PM
A hate crime? That is a stretch IMO. I think they are guilty of something but, really it's a very hard case to think about.

With intent to publish... I think it can be classified as a hate crime.

kappys
07-19-2011, 01:24 PM
Invasion of privacy isn't a multi-year criminal act either.

If the person is THAT upset with it getting out, he shouldn't have been doing it. I don't want anyone taking pictures of my luscious body in the shower but if they did, I wouldn't expect them to go to prison for years. This was an invasion of privacy issue. That's all it was.

I'm not so sure - if they videotaped said luscious body in sexual congress with another likely unconsenting victim(2 people here) illegally and then broadcast said illegal videotaping maybe they do deserve a felony conviction.

I'm not sure what the relative statutes are in this case - but I think he should certainly face the punishment that they call for in this case.

DBroncos4life
07-19-2011, 01:27 PM
The last person I knew to commit suicide had a liver issue. They were trying to determine what exactly was wrong but they knew something was really off. He had been a big drinker before and when they found out, he and his new wife both agreed to stop drinking together to support him. Their anniversary rolled around and he decided it'd be OK to suspend their agreement for a bottle of wine. Apparently she thought it was no big issue and at some point yelled "Fine, if you want to kill yourself, go ahead!". He stormed off and a few seconds later she heard the gunshot.

The guy was a combat veteran, had just the kidney health issue, but was quite well liked, newly but happily married and showed no signs of being suicidal at all. Absolutely NOBODY knew he had any depression issues or anything. He seemed to be taking the liver thing well and nobody thought it was an issue.

Place blame for me, by your above standards, if you would.

Well it went from not knowing what the liver issue was to just a kidney issue. So which is it he knew what the problem was or didn't? Also if the wife thought it was "no big issue" I don't understand why she had to yell "fine, if you want to kill yourself, go ahead!" She must have thought it was to say something like that.

Odds are it was a combo of being drunk when he had a serious issue with something he wasn't dealing with his liver issue and listening to his new wife pretty much say it doesn't matter if he kills himself. I think the wife carries a lot of the burden of dealing with his death.

I don't think the cases are really all that same IMO, and AGAIN I didn't say those kids MURDERED him nor am I suggesting that your friends wife MURDERED him.

We can sit here and say well he might have killed himself or he had other issues all we want. We really don't know if he did or didn't. I can however say that the video of him having sex with another guy did play a pretty big role in him deciding to kill himself because he in fact did do just that after he found out about the video.

I want to know if the kid left some kind of note about the video.

That One Guy
07-19-2011, 01:45 PM
Well it went from not knowing what the liver issue was to just a kidney issue. So which is it he knew what the problem was or didn't? Also if the wife thought it was "no big issue" I don't understand why she had to yell "fine, if you want to kill yourself, go ahead!" She must have thought it was to say something like that.

Odds are it was a combo of being drunk when he had a serious issue with something he wasn't dealing with his liver issue and listening to his new wife pretty much say it doesn't matter if he kills himself. I think the wife carries a lot of the burden of dealing with his death.

I don't think the cases are really all that same IMO, and AGAIN I didn't say those kids MURDERED him nor am I suggesting that your friends wife MURDERED him.

We can sit here and say well he might have killed himself or he had other issues all we want. We really don't know if he did or didn't. I can however say that the video of him having sex with another guy did play a pretty big role in him deciding to kill himself because he in fact did do just that after he found out about the video.

I want to know if the kid left some kind of note about the video.

bah, I need an editor.

I don't know why I typed kidney and I meant to say she thought it was no small issue.

And my point in it was that one thing could be the final straw but a person can't know what is going through someone else's head and we can't know just how responsible the person is for the final act. Maybe if the guy's wife doesn't tell him to kill himself, he doesn't. In hindsight though, the assumption is that he must've been more distraught by the liver thing than we thought. NOBODY thinks what she said actually caused him to do it. By some arbitrary standards though, maybe her telling him to kill himself (even if not being intended literally) could be enough distress for her to be found responsible. I hate the thought that such things could be. She didn't intend her husband to commit suicide any more than the guy's roommate did.

enjolras
07-19-2011, 01:46 PM
probably the best read on the subject in this thread

Except that he inexplicably goes from "this is a civil matter" to "put them on the sex-offender list!". Which is a bit of a contradiction.

DBroncos4life
07-19-2011, 01:52 PM
Also I'm not sure what you think my above standards where. I view it like this.

Buying alcohol for minors or furnishing it isn't a felony, neither is invasion of privacy. If you are having a party and a minor drinks and dies of alcohol poisoning or a car wreck it does become a felony. Neither had the intention of anyone dying right?

Clearly it's WAY easier to prove the minor reason for death here, BUT and I mean a HUGE BUT....If the DA thinks he has a case to prove that because of the invasion of privacy he can in fact prove that it resulted in the death of another human then by all means let him try.

alkemical
07-19-2011, 01:53 PM
I think bullying, and cyber bullying need to be changed and made to be criminal charges.

Driving someone to kill themselves, is murder.

DBroncos4life
07-19-2011, 01:55 PM
bah, I need an editor.

I don't know why I typed kidney and I meant to say she thought it was no small issue.

And my point in it was that one thing could be the final straw but a person can't know what is going through someone else's head and we can't know just how responsible the person is for the final act. Maybe if the guy's wife doesn't tell him to kill himself, he doesn't. In hindsight though, the assumption is that he must've been more distraught by the liver thing than we thought. NOBODY thinks what she said actually caused him to do it. By some arbitrary standards though, maybe her telling him to kill himself (even if not being intended literally) could be enough distress for her to be found responsible. I hate the thought that such things could be. She didn't intend her husband to commit suicide any more than the guy's roommate did.

While I agree, the roommate went out of his way to cause harm emotionally to this guy. I don't think the wife saying what she said is even close to the same thing.

alkemical
07-19-2011, 01:56 PM
Why do we like to blame the victims?

jhns
07-19-2011, 01:58 PM
I think bullying, and cyber bullying need to be changed and made to be criminal charges.

Driving someone to kill themselves, is murder.

Murder by embarrassment. How retarded.

The kids own shame drove him to suicide. The video didn't. Many people have been shamed, embarrassed, and picked on. Very few chose to kill themselves. Others should not be blamed for that kids choice.

jhns
07-19-2011, 02:00 PM
Why do we like to blame the victims?

The "victim" of a suicide... Wtf?

alkemical
07-19-2011, 02:00 PM
Murder by embarrassment. How retarded.

The kids own shame drove him to suicide. The video didn't. Many people have been shamed, embarrassed, and picked on. Very few chose to kill themselves. Others should not be blamed for that kids choice.

**** off.

That One Guy
07-19-2011, 02:04 PM
Also I'm not sure what you think my above standards where. I view it like this.

Buying alcohol for minors or furnishing it isn't a felony, neither is invasion of privacy. If you are having a party and a minor drinks and dies of alcohol poisoning or a car wreck it does become a felony. Neither had the intention of anyone dying right?

Clearly it's WAY easier to prove the minor reason for death here, BUT and I mean a HUGE BUT....If the DA thinks he has a case to prove that because of the invasion of privacy he can in fact prove that it resulted in the death of another human then by all means let him try.

Alcohol to a minor is a different beast. It's a lot more reasonable to say someone was going 140 down the freeway because of alcohol alone than to say he offed himself because of the video alone. They're part of a limited number of factors. Why someone offs themself could be an accumulation of a limitless number of factors.

And you seemed to be of the "legally it's not murder even though it pretty much was" crowd. That aspect is the too slippery of a slope aspect I was thinking about.

That One Guy
07-19-2011, 02:07 PM
Why do we like to blame the victims?

The problem is I will always blame someone for suicide. However, there is neither blame nor praise rewarded when someone deals with the problems in their life. We just either don't recognize it or view it as normal and without merit of second thoughts. In that aspect, the blame is only noticeable in the most dramatic instances in conjunction with the victim.

In the big picture though, is anyone here saying that what the roommate did wasn't bad? If the kid never kills himself and presses charges instead, we don't hear about it but the roommate surely faces consequences.

DBroncos4life
07-19-2011, 02:14 PM
Alcohol to a minor is a different beast. It's a lot more reasonable to say someone was going 140 down the freeway because of alcohol alone than to say he offed himself because of the video alone. They're part of a limited number of factors. Why someone offs themself could be an accumulation of a limitless number of factors.

And you seemed to be of the "legally it's not murder even though it pretty much was" crowd. That aspect is the too slippery of a slope aspect I was thinking about.

I agree it is a very slippery slope. What if in the kids suicide note he goes on to say the only reason he is ending his own life is because of the video and the actions of those two kids? Does it change anything?

Do I think the video played a large part in his death? Yeah I do, Over 50% even. Does that mean I think he was "murdered"? No, I don't. Like I said before maybe they should find a new term for it.

jhns
07-19-2011, 02:24 PM
I agree it is a very slippery slope. What if in the kids suicide note he goes on to say the only reason he is ending his own life is because of the video and the actions of those two kids? Does it change anything?

Do I think the video played a large part in his death? Yeah I do, Over 50% even. Does that mean I think he was "murdered"? No, I don't. Like I said before maybe they should find a new term for it.

No, that wouldn't change a thing. Many peolle have been just as embarrassed as this kid and didn't make the choice to kill themselves. The two things are not at all connected. The other two kids are responsible for crimes like video taping people without their knowledge and maybe something with taping sex. The death is completely on the kid that killed himself.

This is getting to be like the Darrent Williams thing. People wanted to blame Marshall for fighting with the trigger guy. As the court showed, Marshall had nothing to do with the murder. Just because an individual completely overreacts to a situation, doesn't mean everyone involved in the situation is responsible for that persons actions. We are all responsible for our own actions.

Pony Boy
07-19-2011, 02:39 PM
These two don't have a problem with this and they say "what's a little murder between friends and family"?

Rockies Fan Douche
07-19-2011, 04:45 PM
15 yrs ago, nobody would have given a **** about some ass pirate offing himself. they would have said good riddance.

why does anybody here give a **** about some peter puffer committing suicide?

i thought this was a football board filled with grown men who like to drink beer and shoot guns. act like it.

Garcia Bronco
07-19-2011, 04:49 PM
15 yrs ago, nobody would have given a **** about some ass pirate offing himself. they would have said good riddance.

why does anybody here give a **** about some peter puffer committing suicide?

i thought this was a football board filled with grown men who like to drink beer and shoot guns. act like it.

You can say anything you want as long as you have a smilie face after it. :)


It is a football board, but we've always allowed social issue discussions in the off-season. It doesn't get anymore off-season than these days. :/

DHallblows
07-19-2011, 04:56 PM
15 yrs ago, nobody would have given a **** about some ass pirate offing himself. they would have said good riddance.

why does anybody here give a **** about some peter puffer committing suicide?

i thought this was a football board filled with grown men who like to drink beer and shoot guns. act like it.

The important thing is that your name is spot on. Congrats, Douche :thumbs:

And why is some baseball-loving homo on this Broncos board anyway ??? Find yourself some ass-pirate-baseball forum

broncocalijohn
07-19-2011, 04:57 PM
I think bullying, and cyber bullying need to be changed and made to be criminal charges.

Driving someone to kill themselves, is murder.

And if MacGruder offed himself because we all ganged up on his stupidity, do we become murderers? It is a fine line. When the crazy Mom set up a fake MySpace/FB page and befriended that teenager and then went 180 degrees on her to the point she killed herself, that was bullying/prank that could be (IMO) a crime. An adult doing that to a child is whole different story than the gay guy killing himself. He was so ashamed of being gay that he never told anyone. That is frustration built up and was the final straw. This case and others is what will make good lawyers great when fighting for or against the bully act.

broncocalijohn
07-19-2011, 04:58 PM
15 yrs ago, nobody would have given a **** about some ass pirate offing himself. they would have said good riddance.

why does anybody here give a **** about some peter puffer committing suicide?

i thought this was a football board filled with grown men who like to drink beer and shoot guns. act like it.

Can we get a Champagne Powder/ Karenin IP check? Smells like one of them.

That One Guy
07-19-2011, 05:00 PM
15 yrs ago, nobody would have given a **** about some ass pirate offing himself. they would have said good riddance.

why does anybody here give a **** about some peter puffer committing suicide?

i thought this was a football board filled with grown men who like to drink beer and shoot guns. act like it.

LOL

Have a seat and tell us how ya feel, son.

That One Guy
07-19-2011, 05:01 PM
Can we get a Champagne Powder/ Karenin IP check? Smells like one of them.

Agreed.

Mediator12
07-19-2011, 05:07 PM
Except that he inexplicably goes from "this is a civil matter" to "put them on the sex-offender list!". Which is a bit of a contradiction.

There is criminal intent in taking the movie and distributing without their consent. As I said, Depending on the state and legality of where it occurred it can be a sexual harassment and therefore they can be placed on the registries as a sex offender. The civil side is is all about restricting their ability to earn income for the rest of their lives as well.

Archer81
07-19-2011, 06:34 PM
15 yrs ago, nobody would have given a **** about some ass pirate offing himself. they would have said good riddance.

why does anybody here give a **** about some peter puffer committing suicide?

i thought this was a football board filled with grown men who like to drink beer and shoot guns. act like it.


**** you.


:Broncos:

rugbythug
07-19-2011, 06:38 PM
[QUOTE=Mediator12;3221292]There is criminal intent in taking the movie and distributing without their consent. As I said, Depending on the state and legality of where it occurred it can be a sexual harassment and therefore they can be placed on the registries as a sex offender. The civil side is is all about restricting their ability to earn income for the rest of their lives as well.[/QUOTe
depends how he made the movie. But it was his movie to distribute. We currently have a very broad free speech rules.

rugbythug
07-19-2011, 06:48 PM
After reading the article this is total hogwash. The kid remotely turned on his own web cam. Then let's people watch a pg gay loveztory. Let's get real. Dumb.

When I was in college dudes were always trying to peep their friends getting laid now they should all go to prison?

RhymesayersDU
07-19-2011, 07:00 PM
After reading the article this is total hogwash. The kid remotely turned on his own web cam. Then let's people watch a pg gay loveztory. Let's get real. Dumb.

When I was in college dudes were always trying to peep their friends getting laid now they should all go to prison?

Where did you go where boys wanted to watch their friends have sex?. All male scchool, I assume?

rugbythug
07-19-2011, 07:07 PM
Where did you go where boys wanted to watch their friends have sex?. All male scchool, I assume?

with women. UW

Captain 'Dre
07-20-2011, 09:33 AM
That is a typical retarded response from you. The kid pulled a stupid prank. It is not his fault that the other kid is that ashamed of himself. This goes a lot deeper than the video. That kid already thought about suicide and was severely depressed. He could have looked for help. Instead he took the p***Y route. This is not the fault of the other dumb kid. What do you think would have happened if his parents surprised him once and saw something like this? I bet the same thing happens. He kills himself.

Why would we charge someone extra for messing with an unstable kid? It isn't like they could have known. It seems to me like the parents are to blame. They sent an unstable kid off to a very stressful environment, by himself.

Spoken like a guy who delights in pulling the wings off mosquitoes.

Good on ya, man! Let's torment unstable people, then deny any responsibility when they hurt themselves.

Captain 'Dre
07-20-2011, 09:38 AM
Nope. Just telling it like it is.

If you kill yourself because I call you an idiot, you are still the only one to blame for your death.

No, you're telling it like you see it.

A very different thing altogether.

jhns
07-20-2011, 10:14 AM
No, you're telling it like you see it.

A very different thing altogether.

No, it isn't.

I bet the courts agree with me.

jhns
07-20-2011, 10:28 AM
Spoken like a guy who delights in pulling the wings off mosquitoes.

Good on ya, man! Let's torment unstable people, then deny any responsibility when they hurt themselves.

So they knew he was unstable? Why is it their fault that an unstable kid is out on his own? Wouldn't that be his families fault?

See, the last two words of your post make the rest of it pretty dumb. A guy makes a choice to kill himself and you think others need to be blamed for his choice. That doesn't even make a little bit of sense. That kid was a coward, as is everyone that commits suicide. They are taking the easy way out at the expense of everyone that knew, and cared about them. There is never a good reason to kill yourself. You are all claiming that there is. I hope none of you have younger people that look up to you. What horrible role models.

Captain 'Dre
07-20-2011, 11:05 AM
That kid was a coward, as is everyone that commits suicide.

And you think the courts agree with you on this too, eh?

Until now, I wasn't aware that javelinas could access websites and type.

jhns
07-20-2011, 11:25 AM
And you think the courts agree with you on this too, eh?

Everyone should agree with that fact.

Requiem
07-20-2011, 05:17 PM
Don't even bother, Captain.

RhymesayersDU
07-20-2011, 05:23 PM
Attempted murder, on the internet:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3221994


OHHHH NOEZZZZZZZ.

OABB
07-20-2011, 06:10 PM
People that break other people to the point that they kill themselves, are responsible for their death.

Just like any other abuser/bully.

nope. unless you are talking about a child, this is a very wrong statement.

OABB
07-20-2011, 06:12 PM
jhns is absolutely right...


(vomiting as I type this)

That One Guy
07-20-2011, 06:19 PM
jhns is absolutely right...


(vomiting as I type this)

JHNS doesn't sugarcoat things so sometimes they come out a bit rough around the edges but in general, I seem to agree with him a lot lately.

The JHNS of the last few years seems to have calmed down a bit.

OABB
07-20-2011, 06:32 PM
JHNS doesn't sugarcoat things so sometimes they come out a bit rough around the edges but in general, I seem to agree with him a lot lately.

The JHNS of the last few years seems to have calmed down a bit.

agreed. hes not as whiney.

Requiem
07-20-2011, 07:25 PM
Maybe not as whiney, but more than ever just as myopic and judgmental. Quite the way of life for a boy who has barely ventured out of Nebraska.

AK Broncomaniac
07-21-2011, 12:53 AM
Well stated, Requiem!

jhns
07-21-2011, 07:12 AM
Maybe not as whiney, but more than ever just as myopic and judgmental. Quite the way of life for a boy who has barely ventured out of Nebraska.

You have no idea where I have been or what I have been through. In other words, you are doing exactly what you are crying about me doing...

If you feel there is a goid reason to kill yourself, more power to you. Just keep your opinions away from kids. You are a horrible role model and only making the problem worse.

jhns
07-21-2011, 07:13 AM
Well stated, Requiem!

You can just go **** yourself.

AK Broncomaniac
07-21-2011, 10:37 AM
You can just go **** yourself.

Your lack of impulse control and vocabulary seem to be getting the best of you today!

jhns
07-21-2011, 10:39 AM
Your lack of impulse control and vocabulary seem to be getting the best of you today!

And you are a POS. We all have our flaws.

AK Broncomaniac
07-21-2011, 11:04 AM
And you are a POS. We all have our flaws.

And look how little time you took to prove my point! Take a deep breath, hold it and slowly let it out. Nevermind... just hold it. :)

jhns
07-21-2011, 11:22 AM
And look how little time you took to prove my point! Take a deep breath, hold it and slowly let it out. Nevermind... just hold it. :)

And look how little time you took to prove my point!

At least I have more class than you.

Requiem
07-21-2011, 11:27 AM
You have no idea where I have been or what I have been through. In other words, you are doing exactly what you are crying about me doing.

Actually you admitted in a thread not too long ago that you've barely ventured beyond your pastures. It definitely shows in the way you behave, and your relatively short-sighted opinions on most things. You have an extremely hard time seeing past yourself, and for whatever reason, walk around a message board with some delusions of grandeur, preaching your opinion as gospel.

If you feel there is a goid reason to kill yourself, more power to you. Just keep your opinions away from kids. You are a horrible role model and only making the problem worse.

I don't think killing oneself is ever a good idea, unless it's self-assisted suicide because there is no quality of life there of an obviously suffering patient. As for the kids bit, you might want to keep your opinions to yourself. You've talked about kicking around kids, abusing them and hitting them and other sick things on the message board.

There is no problem I'm making worse.

jhns
07-21-2011, 11:32 AM
Actually you admitted in a thread not too long ago that you've barely ventured beyond your pastures. It definitely shows in the way you behave, and your relatively short-sighted opinions on most things. You have an extremely hard time seeing past yourself, and for whatever reason, walk around a message board with some delusions of grandeur, preaching your opinion as gospel.



I don't think killing oneself is ever a good idea, unless it's self-assisted suicide because there is no quality of life there of an obviously suffering patient. As for the kids bit, you might want to keep your opinions to yourself. You've talked about kicking around kids, abusing them and hitting them and other sick things on the message board.

There is no problem I'm making worse.

Wtf? You make up some weird ****.

If you don't think there is a good reason to kill yourself, you agree with me. Way to make yourself look like more of an idiot.

RhymesayersDU
07-21-2011, 11:37 AM
And look how little time you took to prove my point! Take a deep breath, hold it and slowly let it out. Nevermind... just hold it. :)

If jhns were to actually hold his breath in, you'd be a murderer according to some delusional people on this board.

jhns
07-21-2011, 11:40 AM
If jhns were to actually hold his breath in, you'd be a murderer according to some delusional people on this board.

You better watch it. Her and Req will get offended by this. She is one of them. Funny that she then comes with posts like that, along with the neg reps....

AK Broncomaniac
07-21-2011, 11:50 AM
You better watch it. Her and Req will get offended by this. She is one of them. Funny that she then comes with posts like that, along with the neg reps....

Breathe JHNS, Breathe!!! Hilarious!

You do not offend me,sir... but your ignorance and short-sightedness does! :dummy:

jhns
07-21-2011, 11:55 AM
Breathe JHNS, Breathe!!! Hilarious!

You do not offend me,sir... but your ignorance and short-sightedness does! :dummy:

You just completely contradicted yourself. Way to go dumb bitch.

Requiem
07-21-2011, 12:00 PM
Wtf? You make up some weird ****.

Actually, I could bring up that post if you would like. (Unless you've deleted it.)

If you don't think there is a good reason to kill yourself, you agree with me. Way to make yourself look like more of an idiot.

I can empathize and understand ones choice. My disagreement with you is the way you've gone about pissing and dehumanizing people who invoke such tragedy.

You are really rough around the edges, but whatever. I'm sure bodes well for you in your social and dating life. (That was sarcasm).

Fedayakin had you pegged right. Awfully self-righteous for a junior level web monkey.

alkemical
07-21-2011, 12:07 PM
And look how little time you took to prove my point!

At least I have more class than you.


Uhm, Not really:


She was a weak individual. This isn't even close to the same situation though...

(that was in regards to a 15 year old girl)

AK Broncomaniac
07-21-2011, 12:07 PM
You just completely contradicted yourself. Way to go dumb b****.

Do you feel better now??? Why don't you just go find your happy place and chill... 8')

jhns
07-21-2011, 12:09 PM
Actually, I could bring up that post if you would like. (Unless you've deleted it.)



I can empathize and understand ones choice. My disagreement with you is the way you've gone about pissing and dehumanizing people who invoke such tragedy.

You are really rough around the edges, but whatever. I'm sure bodes well for you in your social and dating life. (That was sarcasm).

Fedayakin had you pegged right. Awfully self-righteous for a junior level web monkey.

I would love to see posts from me that back up what you just claimed.

This, again, shows what an idiot you are.

Actually, it works out great for my social life. You wouldn't believe how much people appreciate a person that tells it like it is. I do leave out stuff that cpuld be offensive, but that is because I have respect for people.

You, again, are doing exactly what you are crying about me doing. The same thing that makes you dislike me. You don't even relize it. You are such a joke.

jhns
07-21-2011, 12:13 PM
Uhm, Not really:




(that was in regards to a 15 year old girl)

LOL

So you are saying that my comment is just as bad as telling someone to kill themselves in a serious conversation about suicide? Wtf?

Strong individuals do not kill themselves. I can give you billions(not an exageration) of exampkes of people that went through a LOT more than either of these individuals and didn't kill themselves. Of course, you aren't smart enoigh to get what this means.

alkemical
07-21-2011, 12:15 PM
LOL

So you are saying that my comment is just as bad as telling someone to kill themselves in a serious conversation about suicide? Wtf?

A strong individuals do not kill themselves. I can give you billions(not an exageration) of exampkes of people that went through a LOT more than either of these individuals and didn't kill themselves. Of course, you aren't smart enoigh to get what this means.

Considering you can't spell anything correctly, i take your jabs of "intelligence" with a grain of salt. It's pretty sad to see someone live in their own delusions. Get help buddy.

Archer81
07-21-2011, 12:18 PM
So happy I have jhns on ignore...


:Broncos:

Requiem
07-21-2011, 12:20 PM
I would love to see posts from me that back up what you just claimed.

Sure.

I leave Nebraska at least ten times a year. Now, six to seven of those times are just to Corado, but I still leave.

Lol.

This, again, shows what an idiot you are.

You are really good with insults!

Actually, it works out great for my social life. You wouldn't believe how much people appreciate a person that tells it like it is. I do leave out stuff that cpuld be offensive, but that is because I have respect for people.

You lack the respect on here, and I'm willing to bet your social life is pretty pissy. I can't imagine that a nerdy, foul-mouthed computer programmer who hardly travels and probably lacks any interesting talents or skills can net up a good conversation downtown. Hell, can you even pick up a chick? Last time you had a good relationship or a lady friend?

Pathetic.

jhns
07-21-2011, 12:32 PM
Considering you can't spell anything correctly, i take your jabs of "intelligence" with a grain of salt. It's pretty sad to see someone live in their own delusions. Get help buddy.

LOL

Grammar smack from someone with horrible grammar. It doesn't get better than that!


Just try explaining this one thing that os making you look like an idiot. You don't have to post your response, just see if you can even spin it to yourself.

What are good reasons to kill yourself? If you just came up with some, you are a bigger POS than I could have imagined. You value social status over life. If you say there isn't a good reason to kill yourself, how can you claim someone needs to be charged with murder? You are saying that they gave them a good reason to kill themselves. You are claiming it wasn't a complete overreaction by the kid that killed himself. What kind of message do you think that would send, especially to easily influenced kids?

Requiem
07-21-2011, 12:34 PM
So happy I have jhns on ignore...


:Broncos:

Sometimes you have to take him off for the entertainment value. :blueflame

AK Broncomaniac
07-21-2011, 12:41 PM
LOL :slapsilly

jhns
07-21-2011, 12:41 PM
Sure.



Lol.



You are really good with insults!



You lack the respect on here, and I'm willing to bet your social life is pretty pissy. I can't imagine that a nerdy, foul-mouthed computer programmer who hardly travels and probably lacks any interesting talents or skills can net up a good conversation downtown. Hell, can you even pick up a chick? Last time you had a good relationship or a lady friend?

Pathetic.

You didn't back up any of your claims there. That post says nothing about hitting kids. It doesn't show where I have been or what I have been through.

I lack respect for those that have proven they don't deserve respect. I do not **** talk those that don't start ****.

Again, acting like you know me. I bet I am in a relationship that is a LOT longer than any you have been in. Again, you are doing the same thing you are crying about. Again, you are a joke.

Requiem
07-21-2011, 12:50 PM
I found JHNS potential girlfriend:

http://eallofthetime.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Earl-Sweatshirt-EARL-2010-e1297984073917.jpg

And yes, I'm sure you've been in a relationship with Rosie Palmer for quite some time.

Loser!

That One Guy
07-21-2011, 12:53 PM
It is a pretty F'ed up accusation to claim someone kicks kids without being able to back it up.

Requiem
07-21-2011, 12:55 PM
It is a pretty F'ed up accusation to claim someone kicks kids without being able to back it up.

I'm sure his post was likely in jest when he made it, but I believe it was in the thread about banning kids at restaurants. I can search later, but honestly don't care. I know he made a post about hurting kids, and whether it was in jest or not just shows how ****ed he is in the head and why his interactions with society are limited.

I'm off to go hang out with some buddies and see what's crackin' at Best Buy!

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lmPvv4YhbZQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

jhns
07-21-2011, 12:56 PM
It is a pretty F'ed up accusation to claim someone kicks kids without being able to back it up.

What more can you expect from such a respectful individual?

alkemical
07-21-2011, 12:58 PM
LOL

Grammar smack from someone with horrible grammar. It doesn't get better than that!


Just try explaining this one thing that os making you look like an idiot. You don't have to post your response, just see if you can even spin it to yourself.

What are good reasons to kill yourself? If you just came up with some, you are a bigger POS than I could have imagined. You value social status over life. If you say there isn't a good reason to kill yourself, how can you claim someone needs to be charged with murder? You are saying that they gave them a good reason to kill themselves. You are claiming it wasn't a complete overreaction by the kid that killed himself. What kind of message do you think that would send, especially to easily influenced kids?


You can't read either! Awesome!

Requiem
07-21-2011, 01:06 PM
What more can you expect from such a respectful individual?

I do not think I have ever read an opinion from you that deserved respect.

You always talk about how great you are, how awesome Nebraskan's are and judge others.

It is just funny, because as I've pointed out and you've illustrated is that you are pretty much a young guy whose never ventured out beyond his own boundaries. Your discourses on cultural issues, politics and the like illustrate this clearly.

You are an awfully obtuse individual, who can't help but put others down to try and elevate yourself.

Your diatribe on people in poverty (and your whole view on the cycle of poverty, which is beyond ****ed) is one example of why you don't deserve respect.

It is earned, not given to unpolished turds who are ignorant.

jhns
07-21-2011, 01:12 PM
I do not think I have ever read an opinion from you that deserved respect.

You always talk about how great you are, how awesome Nebraskan's are and judge others.

It is just funny, because as I've pointed out and you've illustrated is that you are pretty much a young guy whose never ventured out beyond his own boundaries. Your discourses on cultural issues, politics and the like illustrate this clearly.

You are an awfully obtuse individual, who can't help but put others down to try and elevate yourself.

Your diatribe on people in poverty (and your whole view on the cycle of poverty, which is beyond ****ed) is one example of why you don't deserve respect.

It is earned, not given to unpolished turds who are ignorant.

Damn you are worse than a jealous female.

Requiem
07-21-2011, 01:13 PM
Damn you are worse than a jealous female.

Can't help the fact you spit crack, and mine comes out cocaine crisp.

Suck it, homo.

jhns
07-21-2011, 01:23 PM
You can't read either! Awesome!

Thats okay. Spelling = intelligence, doesn't even make a little bit of sense. Just think of the rest as me replying in kind.

DHallblows
07-21-2011, 01:50 PM
And to think, I was worried such a long off season would result in me forgetting who the idiots on this board were...

jhns
07-21-2011, 01:59 PM
And to think, I was worried such a long off season would result in me forgetting who the idiots on this board were...

Yeah, it is sad to see that so many of you know as little about everything else as you know about football.

RhymesayersDU
07-21-2011, 05:26 PM
You can't read either! Awesome!

Being illiterate is pretty serious, and you outing jhns on his illiteracy could cause him to kill himself. You should be charged with attempted murder at least.

DHallblows
07-21-2011, 05:50 PM
Yeah, it is sad to see that so many of you know as little about everything else as you know about football.

I never said you were in that group.

Luckily you placed yourself in there for me...

AK Broncomaniac
07-21-2011, 05:57 PM
Being illiterate is pretty serious, and you outing jhns on his illiteracy could cause him to kill himself. You should be charged with attempted murder at least.

LOL Hilarious!

jhns
07-22-2011, 07:21 AM
I never said you were in that group.

Luckily you placed yourself in there for me...

You really want to get into who has been an idiot the last two year? You McFans sure showed what you know...

jhns
07-22-2011, 07:23 AM
Being illiterate is pretty serious, and you outing jhns on his illiteracy could cause him to kill himself. You should be charged with attempted murder at least.

It is okay. They know it isn't possible to bully people that are better than them. People like me aren't as weak as them.