Why Public Worker Unions Suck

[ant1999e]

Police union put signs up all over N Las Vegas saying “Warning: Due to recent police layoffs, we can no longer ensure your safety!” This is what happens when the good of the union comes before the good of the people.


http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/jul/17/citizens-weigh-north-las-vegas/

Citizens weigh in on state of affairs in North Las Vegas

Recent news that North Las Vegas’ finances could be taken over by the Taxation Department, along with a story listing some of the decisions that have led to this point, prompted several calls and emails. North Las Vegas residents are angry.

At whom or what?

Many North Las Vegas readers are furious at the union representing the city’s police officers. Facing officer layoffs, which the City Council had approved in May to help balance its budget and eliminate a $30 million deficit, the union peppered city streets with signs cautioning that the city is no longer safe — “Warning: Due to recent police layoffs, we can no longer ensure your safety!”

The layoffs never happened, thanks to a decision by District Judge Nancy Allf, who agreed with the union that layoffs would violate the union’s contract.

Now, the city says it is paying $165,000 a week that could have been saved had those layoffs, and others including firefighters, taken place.

People who admitted to not being avid followers of local politics weighed in. One was Bobby Mockbee, who owns TheInfoPeople, 720 W. Cheyenne Ave., a longtime family-owned business that sells engraved awards, trophies and other items. Mockbee said the police union’s signs are “a slap in the face” to the city’s business operators.

Despite its best efforts, as well as a growth spike in the mid-2000s that led to the creation of master-planned communities, North Las Vegas “has always had a stigma associated with it,” Mockbee said. “I don’t care if 80 percent of it is new or not.”

Who else called?

Some called grumbling about the inequity in union contracts among North Las Vegas police and fire, and the city’s other union workers, many of whom will likely be laid off if the city leaves police and fire alone. Then again, if the city sells its new City Hall, not yet opened, and its new wastewater treatment facility, which opened a month ago, it might be able to eliminate a good chunk of its long-term debt and fewer people would lose their jobs. The City Council is expected to vote on ways to fix the financial mess at an upcoming meeting.

Any other calls and issues related to North Las Vegas?

One person closely tied to North Las Vegas politics called to say that Las Vegas should look at consolidating with North Las Vegas. Las Vegas would assume North Las Vegas’ debt, but consolidation would open the northeast valley to Las Vegas, eliminating the need for the landlocked municipality to carry out leapfrog growth.

Is that it?

Not quite. Many people expect the police union to file papers seeking the recall of North Las Vegas City Council members Anita Wood and Robert Eliason, who have not voted the police union’s way all the time. Sources say union members are poring over the two council members’ votes and gearing up to obtain signatures of 25 percent of the people who voted in the last election. That might not be easy, sources say, given the fact that North Las Vegas has experienced so many foreclosures. Many of the people who have voted in the past might not live in the city anymore.

[Hogan11]

Keep paying your taxes and go **** yourself

[epicSocialism4tw]

Give them notice of termination, and inform them that they'll be training the newly hired non-union cadets who are replacing them.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Keep paying your taxes and go **** yourself

Come on, man.

That kind of Maher-speak needs to go away.

We have real problems in this country that need to be addressed, and union thuggery does not help anyone or anything.

[Hogan11]

Come on, man.

That kind of Maher-speak needs to go away.

We have real problems in this country that need to be addressed, and union thuggery does not help anyone or anything.

A thousand pardons, but being a active member of a public union myself, I tend to take such attacks personally and I'm sick of people who think we do nothing at all and/or should work for minimum wage with no benefits.

So I repeat, keep paying your taxes and go **** yourself.

[ant1999e]

Keep paying your taxes and go **** yourself

You just proved my point. Public Worker Unions don't give a **** about the public. They are happy bankrupting a city and taking the taxpayers dollars.

What happened to "shared sacrifice"? It's scum like you that are ****ing this country. But hey, as long as you get yours, **** everyone else. You're a piece of ****.

[Hogan11]

You just proved my point. Public Worker Unions don't give a **** about the public. They are happy bankrupting a city and taking the taxpayers dollars.

What happened to "shared sacrifice"? It's scum like you that are ****ing this country. But hey, as long as you get yours, **** everyone else. You're a piece of ****.

Thank you, as long as they're your dollars, I'll be happy.

[ant1999e]

Sad thing is these clowns couldn't ensure our safety anyway.

[cutthemdown]

Yep basically saying to criminals come out and do your stuff, we want it to happen. You should never advertise to the public there isn't enough police protection. What a complete joke.

[tnedator]

A thousand pardons, but being a active member of a public union myself, I tend to take such attacks personally and I'm sick of people who think we do nothing at all and/or should work for minimum wage with no benefits.

So I repeat, keep paying your taxes and go **** yourself.

No offense, but your response, which mirrors much of what is seen from union members at Town Hall meetings, election rallys, protests, etc., doesn't help the image of unions.

This is the 21st century, it's no longer ok for violence and intimidation tactics by unions. Cell phone videos and 24 hour news cycles have ended those golden years.

[ant1999e]

Like always, the union had the city council/mayor in their pocket. Agreed on a lucrative contract. Council made more bad decisions. Then the economy **** the bed. Record high foreclosures. Las Vegas was #1 or two, # 1 in unemployment. Guess what, we don't have the tax dollars to pay for a lot of things. Public workers salary makes up the majority of the budget. Other unions agreed to work with the city but the Po Po won't. As a matter of fact, the other public workers unions are pissed at the police union because they won't give a little. And if they don't, the other union will lose jobs. Also, word is that many of these police officers don't even live in N. Las Vegas.

[Rigs11]

You just proved my point. Public Worker Unions don't give a **** about the public. They are happy bankrupting a city and taking the taxpayers dollars.

What happened to "shared sacrifice"? It's scum like you that are ****ing this country. But hey, as long as you get yours, **** everyone else. You're a piece of ****.

Umm..what was it you were saying yesterday about insulting people?You're a real piece of work.

[ant1999e]

Umm..what was it you were saying yesterday about insulting people?You're a real piece of work.

Hey Riggs, keep paying your taxes and go **** yourself.

[Rigs11]

Hey Riggs, keep paying your taxes and go **** yourself.

Stay classy

[ant1999e]

Stay classy

You have anything relevent to the topic or you just here to spout your typical garbage?

[Spider]

You just proved my point. Public Worker Unions don't give a **** about the public. They are happy bankrupting a city and taking the taxpayers dollars.

What happened to "shared sacrifice"? It's scum like you that are ****ing this country. But hey, as long as you get yours, **** everyone else. You're a piece of ****.

LOL comming from a guy that got on his high horse and preached about insults ........One thing you have to say about me , I am consistant ...I dont rally about someone behaving a certain way , then turn around and do what I was preaching against .......

[ant1999e]

LOL comming from a guy that got on his high horse and preached about insults ........One thing you hdave to say about me , I am consistant ...I dont rally about someone behaving a certain way , then turn around and do what I was preaching against .......

The guy told me to go **** myself. Should i just comply? I criticized riggs for constantly criticizing but never adding anything productive to the conversation. Sort of like Logan did but at least he took a stance. And again riggs proved my point by coming here and criticizing without adding anything to the topic. Look, someone tells me to go **** myself, you can bet I'm not gonna be nice. If that makes me a hypocrite than **** it, I accept.

[Spider]

The guy told me to go **** myself. Should i just comply? I criticized riggs for constantly criticizing but never adding anything productive to the conversation. Sort of like Logan did but at least he took a stance. And again riggs proved my point by coming here and criticizing without adding anything to the topic. Look, someone tells me to go **** myself, you can bet I'm not gonna be nice. If that makes me a hypocrite than **** it, I accept.

No you should have done what you was preaching , take the high road .... Point is dont complain about insults , then further the action yourself ..... Dont feel lonley I am busting onthe elusive kyle orton harder then you .....

[ant1999e]

No you should have done what you was preaching , take the high road .... Point is dont complain about insults , then further the action yourself ..... Dont feel lonley I am busting onthe elusive kyle orton harder then you .....

But you see, I didn't bash Riggs because he criticized/talked ****. We all do that. That's why we love this place. I got on him because all he does is criticize/talk ****. He rarely has anything productive to add to the conversation. People create threads to discuss a certain topic, not for others to just make personal attacks. If you're gonna make an attack, at least add to the conversation. But I'm a hypocrite, I'm human.

[Spider]

But you see, I didn't bash Riggs because he criticized/talked ****. We all do that. That's why we love this place. I got on him because all he does is criticize/talk ****. He rarely has anything productive to add to the conversation. People create threads to discuss a certain topic, not for others to just make personal attacks. If you're gonna make an attack, at least add to the conversation. But I'm a hypocrite, I'm human.
thats why I am consistant ;D

[ant1999e]

thats why I am consistant ;D

I'd say you're 50/50. half of your posts are strictly bashing and half are constructive conversation. As long as you stay at 50% I'd say you're consistent.

[Spider]

I'd say you're 50/50. half of your posts are strictly bashing and half are constructive conversation. As long as you stay at 50% I'd say you're consistent.

talking bout the personal insults ;)

[Hogan11]

No offense, but your response, which mirrors much of what is seen from union members at Town Hall meetings, election rallys, protests, etc., doesn't help the image of unions.

This is the 21st century, it's no longer ok for violence and intimidation tactics by unions. Cell phone videos and 24 hour news cycles have ended those golden years.

None taken. You have to realize that negative campaigns are always the most successful ones. The villification of Unions with the whole "they promote violence" thing has admittingly been a successful conservative strategy against them. That doesn't mean it's true though. I can tell you honestly that I get much more forms of violence from anti-union people than I personally have ever dished out (and I'm not a violent guy). Every other day I get a bunch a shiat from people who resent the choice I made years ago to enter the public workforce. These are usually people who: A) weren't smart enough to pass a Civil Service exam B) are bitter because they have no skills and are locked into minimum wage jobs C) seem to think I'm living in the lap of luxury or d) dupes who buy the whole villification of public service agenda promoted by the right wing. It's so old and tiresome these days that I'm to the point where most times when I get this garbage anymore, I usually just smile and shrug at them....tonight it caught me when I was in a foul mood. You'll have that at times, it happens every now and then.

Since Wisconsin went down, I've become very active in the PAC of the Union I belong to (which is why I'm not around here as much as in the past), so you could say that while some here are whining about Unions on a message board thread after thread, I'm actively out there working against them. I'd be lying if I said it hasn't been interesting, rewarding and fun too. Multi-state efforts have been productive thus far, such as the shooting down of fake Democrats in Walkerland primaries and getting petitions done for the recalls in Ohio. It's been a good thing to have been a part of and I can't wait to see what more will come of it in the upcoming weeks.

[cutthemdown]

None taken. You have to realize that negative campaigns are always the most successful ones. The villification of Unions with the whole "they promote violence" thing has admittingly been a successful conservative strategy against them. That doesn't mean it's true though. I can tell you honestly that I get much more forms of violence from anti-union people than I personally have ever dished out (and I'm not a violent guy). Every other day I get a bunch a shiat from people who resent the choice I made years ago to enter the public workforce. These are usually people who: A) weren't smart enough to pass a Civil Service exam B) are bitter because they have no skills and are locked into minimum wage jobs C) seem to think I'm living in the lap of luxury or d) dupes who buy the whole villification of public service agenda promoted by the right wing. It's so old and tiresome these days that I'm to the point where most times when I get this garbage anymore, I usually just smile and shrug at them....tonight it caught me when I was in a foul mood. You'll have that at times, it happens every now and then.

Since Wisconsin went down, I've become very active in the PAC of the Union I belong to (which is why I'm not around here as much as in the past), so you could say that while some here are whining about Unions on a message board thread after thread, I'm actively out there working against them. I'd be lying if I said it hasn't been interesting, rewarding and fun too. Multi-state efforts have been productive thus far, such as the shooting down of fake Democrats in Walkerland primaries and getting petitions done for the recalls in Ohio. It's been a good thing to have been a part of and I can't wait to see what more will come of it in the upcoming weeks.

The private sector doesn't need to match you, trying to thwart unions. Basically you will thwart yourselves in the end. There just isn't enough money period for the pensions that many public unions enjoy. There will be a breaking point.

[ant1999e]

These guys put up signs all around the city saying they could no longer assure the public's safety. This was after a judge blocked the layoffs so there was no change in work force. That's just inviting criminals and isn't in the public's best interest, only the unions. That is how the union gets in the way of the police and other public workers purpose. And like I said in post 11, the current contract was made by a council that was in the unions pocket and was way too lucrative for this city to afford. We have streets that are halfway built. Dead ends that just drop 2 feet.

I respect police and other emergency workers. I just disagree with them being unionized. Conflict of interest. I'm sure there is a better way to ensure they are taken care of.

[Hogan11]

The private sector doesn't need to match you, trying to thwart unions. Basically you will thwart yourselves in the end. There just isn't enough money period for the pensions that many public unions enjoy. There will be a breaking point.

Really? That's not the case in a lot of states. Take NY for example....Andrew Cuomo came out this past week saying he was going to press for pension reform because the fund was in trouble and fiscally unsound.....only to be torpedoed by the State Comptroller's statement the next day that not only has the pension fund always been stable and sound, but it also grew by 14.6% in the last quarter. I'll give you a guess who had the figures to back up his statement and who didn't in that one.

Cuomo had to do something though because he lost a lot of his tea bagger/conservative/ conservative democratic support when he pushed through the same sex marriage act. So he decided to attack his workforce's pension fund and DiNapoli called him out on it.

[epicSocialism4tw]

None taken. You have to realize that negative campaigns are always the most successful ones. The villification of Unions with the whole "they promote violence" thing has admittingly been a successful conservative strategy against them. That doesn't mean it's true though. I can tell you honestly that I get much more forms of violence from anti-union people than I personally have ever dished out (and I'm not a violent guy). Every other day I get a bunch a shiat from people who resent the choice I made years ago to enter the public workforce. These are usually people who: A) weren't smart enough to pass a Civil Service exam B) are bitter because they have no skills and are locked into minimum wage jobs C) seem to think I'm living in the lap of luxury or d) dupes who buy the whole villification of public service agenda promoted by the right wing. It's so old and tiresome these days that I'm to the point where most times when I get this garbage anymore, I usually just smile and shrug at them....tonight it caught me when I was in a foul mood. You'll have that at times, it happens every now and then.

Since Wisconsin went down, I've become very active in the PAC of the Union I belong to (which is why I'm not around here as much as in the past), so you could say that while some here are whining about Unions on a message board thread after thread, I'm actively out there working against them. I'd be lying if I said it hasn't been interesting, rewarding and fun too. Multi-state efforts have been productive thus far, such as the shooting down of fake Democrats in Walkerland primaries and getting petitions done for the recalls in Ohio. It's been a good thing to have been a part of and I can't wait to see what more will come of it in the upcoming weeks.

Hopefully you guys will uproot your leadership and get people in there who arent extremist socialists and communists.

[ant1999e]

The private sector doesn't need to match you, trying to thwart unions. Basically you will thwart yourselves in the end. There just isn't enough money period for the pensions that many public unions enjoy. There will be a breaking point.

This. Even the military is breaking. The navy is firing, yes firing people. No pay, no bennies. Just let go. There are rumors of ending the retirement system. It sucks but this is the mess we have gotten ourselves into. And it is we because we keep electing these crooks. We defend their criminal and ignorant actions here on the Mane. We deserve whatever future we get.

[Hogan11]

Hopefully you guys will uproot your leadership and get people in there who arent extremist socialists and communists.

I've never seen nor heard of any admitted communists or socialists in any dealings I've ever had with the union I'm a part of. Never.

[tnedator]

None taken. You have to realize that negative campaigns are always the most successful ones. The villification of Unions with the whole "they promote violence" thing has admittingly been a successful conservative strategy against them. That doesn't mean it's true though. I can tell you honestly that I get much more forms of violence from anti-union people than I personally have ever dished out (and I'm not a violent guy). Every other day I get a bunch a shiat from people who resent the choice I made years ago to enter the public workforce. These are usually people who: A) weren't smart enough to pass a Civil Service exam B) are bitter because they have no skills and are locked into minimum wage jobs C) seem to think I'm living in the lap of luxury or d) dupes who buy the whole villification of public service agenda promoted by the right wing. It's so old and tiresome these days that I'm to the point where most times when I get this garbage anymore, I usually just smile and shrug at them....tonight it caught me when I was in a foul mood. You'll have that at times, it happens every now and then.

Since Wisconsin went down, I've become very active in the PAC of the Union I belong to (which is why I'm not around here as much as in the past), so you could say that while some here are whining about Unions on a message board thread after thread, I'm actively out there working against them. I'd be lying if I said it hasn't been interesting, rewarding and fun too. Multi-state efforts have been productive thus far, such as the shooting down of fake Democrats in Walkerland primaries and getting petitions done for the recalls in Ohio. It's been a good thing to have been a part of and I can't wait to see what more will come of it in the upcoming weeks.

I don't doubt that there is vilification going on, and distortion from the right (just as the left distorts so many things). It also may be true that the video we see are isolated events, such as pipe fitters pushing people around at a Florida town hall, or the SEIU shoving and kicking a black man selling don't tread on my buttons, or a local in Mass intimidating, threatening and then wrapping a reporter in a sign, because he showed up to film a protest against Scott Brown.

Yes, these are isolated events, and maybe something that almost never happens, but the fact is it should NEVER happen. Unions should be negotiating, and even holding rallies, but they shouldn't be involved in physical intimidation -- that's wrong, and should result in criminal action, even when sanctioned by the Democratic party, as happened with the Town Hall meetings where union members were called in to "help maintain the peace" even though everything was peaceful until union members showed up.

So, I do have a rather bad view of union members, because even if it's a rarity, there are FAR too many examples of violence and intimidation being used to get their way.

That's why when you reacted the way you did, it fit right in with the bullying and intimidation reputation that unions have.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I've never seen nor heard of any admitted communists or socialists in any dealings I've ever had with the union I'm a part of. Never.

AFL-CIO Head Trumka is a Marxist.

"Soon after winning their election in 1995, Trumka and his fellow triumvirs instituted "Union Summer," an effort "to recruit and train hundreds of young people as organizers and political activists." The "Union Summer" indoctrination materials endorsed by Trumka use explicit anti-capitalist, class-warfare rhetoric, instructing young participants to recite a pledge called "Working Class Commitment" that includes the Marxist dogma "that we [union workers] produce the world's wealth ... [and] will end all oppression." Unlike their more moderate predecessors, Trumka and his fellow AFL-CIO bosses see free-market capitalism not as essential to worker prosperity but as something to be despised and destroyed. Their ultimate aim is not to boost members' wages, but to radically transform society. Trumka would confirm this in a September 2010 moment of candor, when he stated that he had gotten "into the labor movement not because I wanted to negotiate wages," but "because I saw it as a vehicle to do massive social change to include lots of people."
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1630


Stephen Lerner, Marxist SEIU Boss, Wants to Destroy Free Markets and Destabilize Capitalism (meaning he wants to destroy the financial system in the US)
http://www.businessinsider.com/seiu-union-plan-to-destroy-jpmorgan


Wade Rathke (SEIU, ACORN) Tried to Bankrupt NYC to Usher in a Marxist Revolution
"Rathke acknowledges his support for the Cloward-Piven Strategy, an approach to radical social and political change articulated by Marxist university professors Richard A. Cloward and Frances Fox Piven in a 1966 Nation article, "The Weight of the Poor: A Strategy to End Poverty." The two academics called for "a massive drive to recruit the poor onto the welfare rolls" in an effort to overwhelm the system. "
http://spectator.org/archives/2009/07/16/wrathful-wade-rathke#

[epicSocialism4tw]

I don't doubt that there is vilification going on, and distortion from the right (just as the left distorts so many things). It also may be true that the video we see are isolated events, such as pipe fitters pushing people around at a Florida town hall, or the SEIU shoving and kicking a black man selling don't tread on my buttons, or a local in Mass intimidating, threatening and then wrapping a reporter in a sign, because he showed up to film a protest against Scott Brown.

Yes, these are isolated events, and maybe something that almost never happens, but the fact is it should NEVER happen. Unions should be negotiating, and even holding rallies, but they shouldn't be involved in physical intimidation -- that's wrong, and should result in criminal action, even when sanctioned by the Democratic party, as happened with the Town Hall meetings where union members were called in to "help maintain the peace" even though everything was peaceful until union members showed up.

So, I do have a rather bad view of union members, because even if it's a rarity, there are FAR too many examples of violence and intimidation being used to get their way.

That's why when you reacted the way you did, it fit right in with the bullying and intimidation reputation that unions have.

Look at this crap, this is unbelievable:

"During Trumka's tenure as UNW president (1982-1995), a number of his union's strikes were marred by violence. For example, in a 1985 strike against A.T. Massey Coal, a union man who crossed the picket line received a serious gash in the head in an attack by angry strikers.

Eight years later, UNW thuggery proved fatal. In the spring of 1993, Trumka, in an effort to ensure that no one would be able to find employment as a miner without paying dues or agency fees to the UMW, ordered more than 17,000 mine workers to walk off their jobs. Moreover, he explicitly instructed striking miners to "kick the sh-- out of every last one" of their fellow employees and mine operators who resisted union demands. In response, UMW enforcers vandalized homes, fired gunshots at a mine office, and cut off the power supply to another mine, temporarily trapping 93 miners underground.

Then, on July 22, 1993, a UNW member shot 39-year-old, non-union worker Eddie York in the back of the head as York was driving home from his Logan County, West Virginia job, killing him. Eight UMW strikers were present at the scene of the shooting. When guards subsequently came to check on York's condition, those eight strikers threw rocks at them. Rather take any disciplinary action against the UMW strikers who had behaved so badly, Trumka explained metaphorically: "If you strike a match and put your finger in, common sense tells you you're going to burn your finger."

Soon thereafter, York's widow charged Trumka and other UMW officials in a $27 million wrongful death lawsuit. After fighting the charges for four years, UMW lawyers quickly decided to settle out of court in June 1997 once federal prosecutors announced that they planned to release evidence from the trial of Jerry Dale Lowe, whom a federal jury had previously convicted of conspiracy and weapons charges in connection with York's murder.

UMW strikers perpetrated their acts of violence with the encouragement and approval of Trumka and their other union leaders. As Virginia Circuit Court Judge Donald McGlothlin Jr. declared in 1989, “the evidence shows beyond any shadow of a doubt that violent activities are being organized, orchestrated and encouraged by the leadership of this union.” The Virginia Supreme Court concurred: “Union officials took active roles in these unlawful activities. Notwithstanding the large fines, the Union never represented to the court that it regretted or intended to cease its lawless actions. To the contrary, the utter defiance of the rule of law continued unabated.”
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1630

[Hogan11]

I don't doubt that there is vilification going on, and distortion from the right (just as the left distorts so many things). It also may be true that the video we see are isolated events, such as pipe fitters pushing people around at a Florida town hall, or the SEIU shoving and kicking a black man selling don't tread on my buttons, or a local in Mass intimidating, threatening and then wrapping a reporter in a sign, because he showed up to film a protest against Scott Brown.

Yes, these are isolated events, and maybe something that almost never happens, but the fact is it should NEVER happen. Unions should be negotiating, and even holding rallies, but they shouldn't be involved in physical intimidation -- that's wrong, and should result in criminal action, even when sanctioned by the Democratic party, as happened with the Town Hall meetings where union members were called in to "help maintain the peace" even though everything was peaceful until union members showed up.

So, I do have a rather bad view of union members, because even if it's a rarity, there are FAR too many examples of violence and intimidation being used to get their way.

That's why when you reacted the way you did, it fit right in with the bullying and intimidation reputation that unions have.

I initally reacted the way I did because when you put up with the attitudes I get on a semi-daily basis, sooner or later, one tends to lash out. A perfectly normal response I would say...everyone takes a swat at a fly now and then.

[Hogan11]

Look at this crap, this is unbelievable:

"During Trumka's tenure as UNW president (1982-1995), a number of his union's strikes were marred by violence. For example, in a 1985 strike against A.T. Massey Coal, a union man who crossed the picket line received a serious gash in the head in an attack by angry strikers.

Eight years later, UNW thuggery proved fatal. In the spring of 1993, Trumka, in an effort to ensure that no one would be able to find employment as a miner without paying dues or agency fees to the UMW, ordered more than 17,000 mine workers to walk off their jobs. Moreover, he explicitly instructed striking miners to "kick the sh-- out of every last one" of their fellow employees and mine operators who resisted union demands. In response, UMW enforcers vandalized homes, fired gunshots at a mine office, and cut off the power supply to another mine, temporarily trapping 93 miners underground.

Then, on July 22, 1993, a UNW member shot 39-year-old, non-union worker Eddie York in the back of the head as York was driving home from his Logan County, West Virginia job, killing him. Eight UMW strikers were present at the scene of the shooting. When guards subsequently came to check on York's condition, those eight strikers threw rocks at them. Rather take any disciplinary action against the UMW strikers who had behaved so badly, Trumka explained metaphorically: "If you strike a match and put your finger in, common sense tells you you're going to burn your finger."

Soon thereafter, York's widow charged Trumka and other UMW officials in a $27 million wrongful death lawsuit. After fighting the charges for four years, UMW lawyers quickly decided to settle out of court in June 1997 once federal prosecutors announced that they planned to release evidence from the trial of Jerry Dale Lowe, whom a federal jury had previously convicted of conspiracy and weapons charges in connection with York's murder.

UMW strikers perpetrated their acts of violence with the encouragement and approval of Trumka and their other union leaders. As Virginia Circuit Court Judge Donald McGlothlin Jr. declared in 1989, “the evidence shows beyond any shadow of a doubt that violent activities are being organized, orchestrated and encouraged by the leadership of this union.” The Virginia Supreme Court concurred: “Union officials took active roles in these unlawful activities. Notwithstanding the large fines, the Union never represented to the court that it regretted or intended to cease its lawless actions. To the contrary, the utter defiance of the rule of law continued unabated.”
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1630

The AFL-CIO is not a public union. They may have come out in support of them after the attacks began on the public unions, but that's about as far as it goes. Comparing the AFL-CIO to AFSCME is really like comparing apples to oranges.

If anyone can find an instance of AFSCME violence, I'd be most interested in seeing it because I know of none.

[peacepipe]

I don't doubt that there is vilification going on, and distortion from the right (just as the left distorts so many things). It also may be true that the video we see are isolated events, such as pipe fitters pushing people around at a Florida town hall, or the SEIU shoving and kicking a black man selling don't tread on my buttons, or a local in Mass intimidating, threatening and then wrapping a reporter in a sign, because he showed up to film a protest against Scott Brown.

Yes, these are isolated events, and maybe something that almost never happens, but the fact is it should NEVER happen. Unions should be negotiating, and even holding rallies, but they shouldn't be involved in physical intimidation -- that's wrong, and should result in criminal action, even when sanctioned by the Democratic party, as happened with the Town Hall meetings where union members were called in to "help maintain the peace" even though everything was peaceful until union members showed up.

So, I do have a rather bad view of union members, because even if it's a rarity, there are FAR too many examples of violence and intimidation being used to get their way.

That's why when you reacted the way you did, it fit right in with the bullying and intimidation reputation that unions have.

theres actually no proof of that,the black guy turned out to be a flake making **** up as he went along.

[tnedator]

I initally reacted the way I did because when you put up with the attitudes I get on a semi-daily basis, sooner or later, one tends to lash out. A perfectly normal response I would say...everyone takes a swat at a fly now and then.

Understandable. I shouldn't have even responded, but the shut up and pay your taxes thing frosted my ass a bit.

theres actually no proof of that,the black guy turned out to be a flake making **** up as he went along.

The things I pointed out were all caught on video.

[peacepipe]

Understandable. I shouldn't have even responded, but the shut up and pay your taxes thing frosted my ass a bit.



The things I pointed out were all caught on video.the video didn't catch anything,but what matters most is the black guy went court looking like an idiot cause he couldn't get his make believe story straight.

[Hogan11]

theres actually no proof of that,the black guy turned out to be a flake making **** up as he went along.

Plants of this type don't surprise me under the current anti-union climate.

[W*GS]

'Course, epicFail thinks what happened at the Upper Big Branch Mine was no big deal.

[Hogan11]

Understandable. I shouldn't have even responded, but the shut up and pay your taxes thing frosted my ass a bit.

As does the attitude that public workers should not have representation, collective barganing rights, a decent wage one's family can live on with benefits, etc. etc. frosts mine. It's beyond tiresome.

[tnedator]

As does the attitude that public workers should not have representation, collective barganing rights, a decent wage one's family can live on with benefits, etc. etc. frosts mine. It's beyond tiresome.

There are two sides to the coin. You make good points, but at the same time far too often the negotiations are going on with people that only care about being reelected, and therefore wages and benefits have been far outpacing the private sector, but more important what the local and state governments can afford long term.

Also, we aren't talking about a union coming in to rescue people from sweat shop conditions. I know state workers in Arkansas that are not unionized, but they still get far more benefits than the average private worker in terms of mandatory raises, number of days off, etc.

the video didn't catch anything,but what matters most is the black guy went court looking like an idiot cause he couldn't get his make believe story straight.

I'm not going to say he didn't bait them into being thugs, or that one instance was out of context and made the SEIU look worse than they really are, but what I am also saying is that there are plenty of other examples caught on video of union members playing the role of thugs.

The combination of an attitude that seems to ring of entitlement, combined with many video taped examples of thuggery, has left a bad taste in the mouths of the 85% or so of the work force that are not in unions.

[alkemical]

I have a few family members that work for the state. They don't make a ton of $ - and they also haven't had raises in 4 years.

One major problem I see, is the disconnect. Look at what the legislators and governors make, I don't see them taking pay cuts.

[Hogan11]

There are two sides to the coin. You make good points, but at the same time far too often the negotiations are going on with people that only care about being reelected, and therefore wages and benefits have been far outpacing the private sector, but more important what the local and state governments can afford long term.

Also, we aren't talking about a union coming in to rescue people from sweat shop conditions. I know state workers in Arkansas that are not unionized, but they still get far more benefits than the average private worker in terms of mandatory raises, number of days off, etc.

Herein lies a couple of well worn myths. First, in today's political climate (and thanks again to the right wing smear machine), making so-called "concessions" to unions is not smart politics for reelection campaigns. So while this may have been true in the past, it certainly no longer applies in the present.

The notion that benefits have "outpaced" the private sector is a false one as well. This is the "I don't have it so they shouldn't have it either" notion that's all part of the anti-union noise. The reality is the private sector has succeed in not only rescinding workers benefits but stagnating their wages steadily since the Regan Era. Unions have prevented this from happening thus far in some of the public sector (as they should, afterall, protecting the workers and providing the best possible contracts is the MO here). I'm not familiar with Arkansas, but most Right to work states and ushered in wage and benefit cutbacks that usually drop the workforce to below Wal-Mart status in those areas. That may satisfy the job envy most anti-goverment types have, but it also robs the sector of it's best possible people to do the work perpetuating the stereotype most of these guys already have when the line doesn't move fast enough for them.

[Spider]

There are two sides to the coin. You make good points, but at the same time far too often the negotiations are going on with people that only care about being reelected, and therefore wages and benefits have been far outpacing the private sector, but more important what the local and state governments can afford long term. your so full of shiat , your eyes should be brown

Also, we aren't talking about a union coming in to rescue people from sweat shop conditions. I know state workers in Arkansas that are not unionized, but they still get far more benefits than the average private worker in terms of mandatory raises, number of days off, etc. Yeah right Iam non union ,I am paid comparable to union wages , why ? mycompany finds my skills to be a asset ......Maybe your friends in the private sector need to work harder and smarter .........



I'm not going to say he didn't bait them into being thugs, or that one instance was out of context and made the SEIU look worse than they really are, but what I am also saying is that there are plenty of other examples caught on video of union members playing the role of thugs. LOL phony bastard ..you didnt put the baiting part in your other post , Just blamed those mean ole union guys .... But then that rand paul suppoter standing on the neck of that small woman is forgot about ..... Have I already called you a phony bastard ?

The combination of an attitude that seems to ring of entitlement, combined with many video taped examples of thuggery, has left a bad taste in the mouths of the 85% or so of the work force that are not in unions.

everything else in this post of youres is bull**** , this last part is no exception

[Hogan11]

I have a few family members that work for the state. They don't make a ton of $ - and they also haven't had raises in 4 years.

One major problem I see, is the disconnect. Look at what the legislators and governors make, I don't see them taking pay cuts.

No one is going to cut their own throat, that's just the way of the West.

[tnedator]

Herein lies a couple of well worn myths. First, in today's political climate (and thanks again to the right wing smear machine), making so-called "concessions" to unions is not smart politics for reelection campaigns. So while this may have been true in the past, it certainly no longer applies in the present.

The notion that benefits have "outpaced" the private sector is a false one as well. This is the "I don't have it so they shouldn't have it either" notion that's all part of the anti-union noise. The reality is the private sector has succeed in not only rescinding workers benefits but stagnating their wages steadily since the Regan Era. Unions have prevented this from happening thus far in some of the public sector (as they should, afterall, protecting the workers and providing the best possible contracts is the MO here). I'm not familiar with Arkansas, but most Right to work states and ushered in wage and benefit cutbacks that usually drop the workforce to below Wal-Mart status in those areas. That may satisfy the job envy most anti-goverment types have, but it also robs the sector of it's best possible people to do the work perpetuating the stereotype most of these guys already have when the line doesn't move fast enough for them.

Well, I'm not going to get into a pro/anti-union debate right now, especially with punks like Spider mouthing off and cursing. I don't have the patience to ignore him, and don't want to respond in kind.

My earlier point stands, which is that the time has come for union thuggery to come to an end if you want the general public to support unions again. Blame it on conservative smear campaigns, but if these acts weren't being caught on camera, the right would not be able to smear unions so successfully.

[ant1999e]

Well, I'm not going to get into a pro/anti-union debate right now, especially with punks like Spider mouthing off and cursing. I don't have the patience to ignore him, and don't want to respond in kind.

My earlier point stands, which is that the time has come for union thuggery to come to an end if you want the general public to support unions again. Blame it on conservative smear campaigns, but if these acts weren't being caught on camera, the right would not be able to smear unions so successfully.

The police union here isn't getting much support. When you put these signs up around the city saying you can't ensure our safety, then what are we paying you for? Actually, you're inviting criminals with these signs. The firefighters just took a pay cut and agreed to concessions, other public workers unions have given up a lot to include jobs all along the police have been getting raises because it's in their contract. N Las Vegas will probably end up being taken over by Clark County and the contracts will go away.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184678_1876534716524_1335926495_32147920_6947572_n .jpg (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=32504316&id=1335926495)

[ant1999e]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184678_1876534716524_1335926495_32147920_6947572_n .jpg (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=32504316&id=1335926495)

Who's the CEO of a public union? Same old class warfare crap. fail.

[Hogan11]

Well, I'm not going to get into a pro/anti-union debate right now, especially with punks like Spider mouthing off and cursing. I don't have the patience to ignore him, and don't want to respond in kind.

My earlier point stands, which is that the time has come for union thuggery to come to an end if you want the general public to support unions again. Blame it on conservative smear campaigns, but if these acts weren't being caught on camera, the right would not be able to smear unions so successfully.

No, you're earlier point was refuted entirely in posts #34, 35, 37 & 38. It doesn't stand at all.

[gunns]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184678_1876534716524_1335926495_32147920_6947572_n .jpg (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=32504316&id=1335926495)

This cartoon applies to the legislatures here. Cuts need to be made and they always go after the state employees. State employees are actually getting some sympathy from the public it's been so blatant. Yet, they never seem to cut their own pay or benefits.