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rugbythug
07-16-2011, 01:00 PM
1.Elvis Dumerville For Mario Williams-We may need to through in a conditional.
This one makes too much sense. Mario is the premiere 4-3 end. Elvis was the premiere 3-4 Olb. With each of us changing to the other why not? Make it Happen.

2.Eddie Royal for Albert Haynesworth and a 4th.
I love Eddie however I do not believe in him anymore. Eric Decker has the look of a 10 year #2 reciever. Albert needs a makeover. When Motivated he can play.

OABB
07-16-2011, 01:02 PM
Vomit.

yerner
07-16-2011, 01:05 PM
no.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-16-2011, 01:15 PM
I've heard worse ideas. Doubt either happen though

Br0nc0Buster
07-16-2011, 01:16 PM
might be time to take a break from the internet


<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/fail" target="_blank"><img src="http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd331/AiHyuuga/Random/fail-1.gif" border="0" alt="FAIL Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

HAT
07-16-2011, 01:17 PM
I'd do the first in a heartbeat and wouldn't mind trading Royal but not for Haynesworth.

SoCalBronco
07-16-2011, 01:18 PM
1. Montrose previously pointed out that most of Doom's sacks in 2009 occurred when he had a hand on the ground, despite the fact that he was normally categorized as a 3-4 OLB. If your concern is that he's a much less effective pass rusher as a DE, that's not warranted. Also, moving Dumervil right when he got 43m in guaranteed money would absolutely destroy Denver's salary cap, especially when it is rumored to be at 120m, which would be less than what it was in 2009.

2. Trading anything for Haynesworth is a stupid idea. As much as I'd love to see Shanny get rid of him (or in the alternative, run him to repeated physical collapse in the heat such that he willingly agrees to give back money just so that he doesn't suffer a complete physical and mental breakdown), I don't like the idea of us being the dumpster. Haynesworth is nothing but a cancerous, entitled, unmotivated fat piece of ****. Why would he be motivated here? He's already gotten paid. Are you proposing to re-motivate him by giving him another large bonus? Even trading a practice squad player for him would be a huge net loss. Royal is a good player in the right kind of system. I'm looking forward to seeing whether Fox and McCoy go back and watch some 2008 tape to see the ways Shanny used him that made him most effective and adapt what they are doing, accordingly. The sign of a great staff is adapting whatever you do to fit your talent. That's the answer, not giving up on him. We know he can play, its just a matter of finding the right niche for him.

enjolras
07-16-2011, 01:19 PM
Ya.. the houston trade would be a dream.

broncs2bowl
07-16-2011, 01:25 PM
Retard

Gcver2ver3
07-16-2011, 01:25 PM
those aren't bad ideas, but i believe when healthy Doom is the best pass rusher in the league...i believe he'll be good being that his sacks come from him as a down lineman...

haynesworth trade is risky....

i'd trade him for a pick but no players...

rugbythug
07-16-2011, 01:25 PM
1. Montrose previously pointed out that most of Doom's sacks in 2009 occurred when he had a hand on the ground, despite the fact that he was normally categorized as a 3-4 OLB. If your concern is that he's a much less effective pass rusher as a DE, that's not warranted. Also, moving Dumervil right when he got 43m in guaranteed money would absolutely destroy Denver's salary cap, especially when it is rumored to be at 120m, which would be less than what it was in 2009.

2. Trading anything for Haynesworth is a stupid idea. As much as I'd love to see Shanny get rid of him, I don't like the idea of us being the dumpster. Haynesworth is nothing but a cancerous, entitled, unmotivated fat piece of ****. Why would he be motivated here? He's already gotten paid. Are you proposing to re-motivate him by giving him another large bonus? Even trading a practice squad player for him would be a huge net loss. Royal is a good player in the right kind of system. I'm looking forward to seeing whether Fox and McCoy go back and watch some 2008 tape to see the ways Shanny used him that made him most effective and adapt what they are doing, accordingly. The sign of a great staff is adapting whatever you do to fit your talent. That's the answer, not giving up on him. We know he can play, its just a matter of finding the right niche for him.

I don't think Dumerville is a Bad player by any stretch. And since the new cap is only money spent each year. There is no Cap Ramifications, the old way of cap is gone. Dumerville is good, Williams is better. People can scheme to take advantage of Dumerville as a DE, Less so as a OLB. We are not giving him away we are simply trying to scheme him better.

Eddie is a good player. However he is not a Great Player. Great players make plays in any situation, they don't need to be schemed for. I think it is a bad idea to have to Scheme an advantage for our 3rd WR. He needs to be able to dominant on his own because he is working on the opposing nickle. The last 2 years this has not been the case. He still has value, taking the value and adding to another weaker part of the team only makes sense.

Mogulseeker
07-16-2011, 01:27 PM
The first one isn't terrible... but hells no on the second.

rugbythug
07-16-2011, 01:28 PM
Retard

Thanks! Good Football discussion!

rugbythug
07-16-2011, 01:31 PM
I get it everybody hates Haynesworth. However my thought is the guy is very much like Randy Moss, He plays amazing sometime and poorly others. Lets buy low. Really Royal is not adding much to the team. His value by itself is around a 4th round pick.

Broncoman13
07-16-2011, 01:31 PM
I would much rather get Mebane than Haynesworth. Mario Williams over Doom... Maybe, but not worth the cap hit. But, Houston would take a similar hit and then each team would pay the salary as structured when originally signed. Not sure Houston would do a deal like that tho.

rugbythug
07-16-2011, 01:39 PM
I would much rather get Mebane than Haynesworth. Mario Williams over Doom... Maybe, but not worth the cap hit. But, Houston would take a similar hit and then each team would pay the salary as structured when originally signed. Not sure Houston would do a deal like that tho.

Their is no Cap Hit!

Broncoman13
07-16-2011, 01:41 PM
There is a cap hit.

That One Guy
07-16-2011, 01:44 PM
I checked my rep and they're all bumped off but I could swear I had a few red buttons from you for my criticism of Royal.

I agree though. For whatever reason, he isn't the guy that clawed his way to success in the first year. Now he's a fair catch machine and little else.

rugbythug
07-16-2011, 01:47 PM
There is a cap hit.

I'll Play- How?

rugbythug
07-16-2011, 01:48 PM
I checked my rep and they're all bumped off but I could swear I had a few red buttons from you for my criticism of Royal.

I agree though. For whatever reason, he isn't the guy that clawed his way to success in the first year. Now he's a fair catch machine and little else.

Me? I don't think I have ever Neg Repped anyone.

ColoradoDarin
07-16-2011, 01:49 PM
Eh, I'd rather keep Doom and see how he does with Von coming off the other side.

And I wouldn't be opposed to moving Royal (I'd rather keep him right now), no way in H-E-double hockey sticks do I want Haynesworth anywhere near our team.

cmhargrove
07-16-2011, 01:53 PM
1. Elvis and Von Miller will work together to be possibly the most fearsome speed rushing tandem in the NFL. You have that in the bag - don't mess with it, build around it.

2. You won't need to trade anything for Haynesworth if you really want him, but if you were going to trade, why not ask for a player you really want. I mean, if you could get a starting caliber DT in the prime of his career, send out Eddie Royal + a draft pick to whomever for all I care. Don't just take Haynesworth because there is discontent, make a bid for the best player (from any willing team) to help our team.

Just my two cents.

oubronco
07-16-2011, 01:55 PM
The first one is intriquing as Doom can be schemed out by running towards his side and adding the TE on passing downs. Ayers hasn't really shown anything

There is no way in hell EFX is going to inject the cancer into the locker room that Haynesworth brings

Mediator12
07-16-2011, 01:57 PM
There is a cap hit.

Not under the NEW CBA. Remember all the cap hits were washed clean once the OLD CBA expired and there was an uncapped year. Also, the whole NEW CBA salary cap only applies money spent in the current year and applies to all money that is spent in the current year only. No more front or back loaded bonuses will apply. That is why the players agreed to the lower revenue %. Every dollar of the new CAP is NEW money.

That One Guy
07-16-2011, 01:59 PM
Me? I don't think I have ever Neg Repped anyone.

Hmm... apologies then. I thought it was.

OABB
07-16-2011, 01:59 PM
Me? I don't think I have ever Neg Repped anyone.

You negged repped me once because I let my two year old watch spongebob.

Gcver2ver3
07-16-2011, 02:10 PM
I checked my rep and they're all bumped off but I could swear I had a few red buttons from you for my criticism of Royal.

I agree though. For whatever reason, he isn't the guy that clawed his way to success in the first year. Now he's a fair catch machine and little else.

i blame game 1 of his career...

he set the bar so high with that dominating performance...

since then we keep expecting him to be THAT player....

outside of his 1st career game on MNF and his other MNF performance against SD with the 2 kick returns for TDs...he's been rather ordinary...perhaps i'm missing a game or two, i know his rook season he made some plays, but i imagine you get my drift...

That One Guy
07-16-2011, 02:18 PM
i blame game 1 of his career...

he set the bar so high with that dominating performance...

since then we keep expecting him to be THAT player....

outside of his 1st career game on MNF and his other MNF performance against SD with the 2 kick returns for TDs...he's been rather ordinary...perhaps i'm missing a game or two, i know his rook season he made some plays, but i imagine you get my drift...

Very well could be. He was just so good that we expected the world from him and every fair catch now just pisses me off.

Heck, I remember a few years ago when we had to play Rod Smith at PR for a game just because noone else could be trusted back there. His sole job was to fair catch it and he still had an illegal fair catch motion or something like that. So Eddie is probably better than what we once had but I just expected more of him.

DBroncos4life
07-16-2011, 02:19 PM
I would really like to see us land Aso and then trade Goodman possibly for Damione Lewis? Fox knows him, maybe he has something left lol.

IHaveALight
07-16-2011, 02:32 PM
1.Elvis Dumerville For Mario Williams-We may need to through in a conditional.
This one makes too much sense. Mario is the premiere 4-3 end. Elvis was the premiere 3-4 Olb. With each of us changing to the other why not? Make it Happen.

2.Eddie Royal for Albert Haynesworth and a 4th.
I love Eddie however I do not believe in him anymore. Eric Decker has the look of a 10 year #2 reciever. Albert needs a makeover. When Motivated he can play.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTTQCleNF6MnsDXw0fOu6Q4NZ4O4FgrN M7sDyQmUTLm5jGYX6UK

broncocalijohn
07-16-2011, 02:35 PM
Rug, first props for making a football discussion. Your two trades should start some discussions yet the first few posts showed people cant figure out a FOOTBALL discussion board. I always go back to Simon Fletcher when he was moved from his dominating Linebacker position to a DE. We were not better for it. Mario WIlliams is a stud and the trade to me is a safe one if it was to be pulled off. Hit or no hit on the cap, it isn't a bad way of thinking. As for Haynesworth and Royal, we need to ask, "Can we afford not having Royal on the team?" I think we can and have guys drafted last year that can do returns. My big question is "where is the motivation for Haynesworth to perform?" He needs incentives to move his ass on the field.

DBroncos4life
07-16-2011, 02:39 PM
Rug, first props for making a football discussion. Your two trades should start some discussions yet the first few posts showed people cant figure out a FOOTBALL discussion board. I always go back to Simon Fletcher when he was moved from his dominating Linebacker position to a DE. We were not better for it. Mario WIlliams is a stud and the trade to me is a safe one if it was to be pulled off. Hit or no hit on the cap, it isn't a bad way of thinking. As for Haynesworth and Royal, we need to ask, "Can we afford not having Royal on the team?" I think we can and have guys drafted last year that can do returns. My big question is "where is the motivation for Haynesworth to perform?" He needs incentives to move his ass on the field.

I would just like to see us sign Leon Washington and fix our return game that way.

rugbythug
07-16-2011, 02:42 PM
I would just like to see us sign Leon Washington and fix our return game that way.

Is he a FA?

DBroncos4life
07-16-2011, 02:45 PM
Is he a FA?

He is.

Requiem
07-16-2011, 02:51 PM
Trading Eddie or any wide receiver is an absolute zero with 4emaryius out for at least half the year, if not all of it. Royal is a valuable player as a returner and receiver. He is capable of good things.

No to the first trade. Denver needs to be as aggressive as possible in regards to a defensive tackle, running back and additional front seven players when free agency starts.

Orton is the guy to dump.

Broncoman13
07-16-2011, 02:57 PM
So the only thing on our cap is salary? Players are about to get paid all over the place!

ICON
07-16-2011, 04:20 PM
Royal for Haynesworth....f-NO

Mediator12
07-16-2011, 04:31 PM
So the only thing on our cap is salary? Players are about to get paid all over the place!

Going forward Salary + any bonus paid in that year only counts for the yearly cap. Proration of any Signing bonuses is gone. The new top CBA tool will be the gauranteed roster bonus to spread cap hits over multiple years IMHO. Players will get a slightly more guaranteed money but less in Salary the way it looks right now.

However, teams HAVE to spend to the floor every year. That means they will have to give away bonuses at the end of the season equal to how much cash they actually spent below the cap floor. In the end, it could be performance bonuses on top of the contractual dollars the players get. I think that would be a brilliant way to play. Get a contract with a minimum amount to make and then get a performance bonus for outplaying your contract this year. This benefits both sides and should motivate players in non-contract years if they could get extra cash for outplaying their contract.

Also, it eliminates dead weight money that has crippled bad teams from getting rid of underperforming players. And, it allows teams much more flexibility to re-sign players who drastically outperform their rookie contracts like Chris Johnson has the last two years.

StugotsIII
07-16-2011, 04:33 PM
Epic fail.

Mediator12
07-16-2011, 04:38 PM
1.Elvis Dumerville For Mario Williams-We may need to through in a conditional.
This one makes too much sense. Mario is the premiere 4-3 end. Elvis was the premiere 3-4 Olb. With each of us changing to the other why not? Make it Happen.

2.Eddie Royal for Albert Haynesworth and a 4th.
I love Eddie however I do not believe in him anymore. Eric Decker has the look of a 10 year #2 reciever. Albert needs a makeover. When Motivated he can play.

No need to do this on a short TC and offseason schedule to integrate the new players into a new system. Keep as many former players as you can IMHO and try to be consistent right now. That is unless you can land an elite FA who is a top 10 player at his position. If you can do that, like getting Zach Miller @ TE then you do it.

Broncojef
07-16-2011, 04:42 PM
I would do the first trade in an instant for Mario but would hate cheering for Haynesworth no matter how much production he gave our depleted defensive line. I can't imagine Houston wanting to move mario hes solid enough to build a defense around.

StugotsIII
07-16-2011, 04:46 PM
Once the players and owners hash out the details of the CBA, all hell is going to break loose.

In a short amount of time, teams will have to:


Sign undrafted free agents
Sign drafted players
Sign free agents
Make trades
Open training camp
Play preseason games
Hold a supplemental draft and sign those players


The **** is about to hit the fan and it's going to be football nirvana.


Denver will sign a top RB to compliment Moreno
Denver will hit trade and free agency to address the defensive line situation.
Will Denver end up trading Orton in turn gaurenteeing Tebow will be the starter?
Does Denver sign an inside backer?


I for one cannot wait for the new CBA to be put to bed. It could be one of the most frenzied off-seasons ever.

I cannot wait! Thoughts on what Denver will do?

Broncojef
07-16-2011, 04:52 PM
Once the players and owners hash out the details of the CBA, all hell is going to break loose.

In a short amount of time, teams will have to:


Sign undrafted free agents
Sign drafted players
Sign free agents
Make trades
Open training camp
Play preseason games
Hold a supplemental draft and sign those players


The **** is about to hit the fan and it's going to be football nirvana.


Denver will sign a top RB to compliment Moreno
Denver will hit trade and free agency to address the defensive line situation.
Will Denver end up trading Orton in turn gaurenteeing Tebow will be the starter?
Does Denver sign an inside backer?


I for one cannot wait for the new CBA to be put to bed. It could be one of the most frenzied off-seasons ever.

I cannot wait! Thoughts on what Denver will do?

On top of all the madness if teams are indeed flush with cash to spend to meet a minimum threshold we might see everyone viewing highend talent in the free agent realm in a new light. If Denver targets Mebane or someone like him we may have many other teams to compete with.

That One Guy
07-16-2011, 04:53 PM
Going forward Salary + any bonus paid in that year only counts for the yearly cap. Proration of any Signing bonuses is gone. The new top CBA tool will be the gauranteed roster bonus to spread cap hits over multiple years IMHO. Players will get a slightly more guaranteed money but less in Salary the way it looks right now.

However, teams HAVE to spend to the floor every year. That means they will have to give away bonuses at the end of the season equal to how much cash they actually spent below the cap floor. In the end, it could be performance bonuses on top of the contractual dollars the players get. I think that would be a brilliant way to play. Get a contract with a minimum amount to make and then get a performance bonus for outplaying your contract this year. This benefits both sides and should motivate players in non-contract years if they could get extra cash for outplaying their contract.

Also, it eliminates dead weight money that has crippled bad teams from getting rid of underperforming players. And, it allows teams much more flexibility to re-sign players who drastically outperform their rookie contracts like Chris Johnson has the last two years.

If they can come to a sincere resolution to hold outs, the end of year thing could still be a way to play with salary caps. The problem would be if you gave someone a big bonus at the end of one year and by the next season, he was ready to hold out because that year's check wasn't big enough.

TheReverend
07-16-2011, 05:19 PM
1. Elvis and Von Miller will work together to be possibly the most fearsome speed rushing tandem in the NFL. You have that in the bag - don't mess with it, build around it.

2. You won't need to trade anything for Haynesworth if you really want him, but if you were going to trade, why not ask for a player you really want. I mean, if you could get a starting caliber DT in the prime of his career, send out Eddie Royal + a draft pick to whomever for all I care. Don't just take Haynesworth because there is discontent, make a bid for the best player (from any willing team) to help our team.

Just my two cents.

Nothing is "in the bag" when it comes to a rookie that hasn't played a down yet

cutthemdown
07-16-2011, 05:35 PM
Don't worry about the scheme 4-3 3-4 is only a front. It's not the end all of how you use a dend or an OLB. Both players will find a way to make plays.

Now I would trade Royal and a low pick for Haynesworth is a second. Its a big risk, may backfire, but I think it is our only shot at a dominant DT. There just really aren't any that good available in FA. Mebane? It could even end up Orton for Hayneworth and a draft pick.

rugbythug
07-16-2011, 05:36 PM
I don't think they are targeting mebane. Remember they did not like paea because of his height or lack there of. Mebane is 6-1 cofield is the target Imo.

rugbythug
07-16-2011, 05:37 PM
Don't worry about the scheme 4-3 3-4 is only a front. It's not the end all of how you use a dend or an OLB. Both players will find a way to make plays.

Now I would trade Royal and a low pick for Haynesworth is a second. Its a big risk, may backfire, but I think it is our only shot at a dominant DT. There just really aren't any that good available in FA. Mebane? It could even end up Orton for Hayneworth and a draft pick.

Didn't I have us getting the pick?

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
07-16-2011, 05:47 PM
If Kolb is worth a 1st and a 3rd, Orton should fich atleast a 2nd and 5th from Arizona.

broncos-rock
07-16-2011, 06:43 PM
I do think we are going to do a trade with Houston but its going to be for Amobi Okoye. I dont know what the compensation will be perhaps a 3rd or something.

CEH
07-16-2011, 06:45 PM
1.Elvis Dumerville For Mario Williams-We may need to through in a conditional.
This one makes too much sense. Mario is the premiere 4-3 end. Elvis was the premiere 3-4 Olb. With each of us changing to the other why not? Make it Happen.

2.Eddie Royal for Albert Haynesworth and a 4th.
I love Eddie however I do not believe in him anymore. Eric Decker has the look of a 10 year #2 reciever. Albert needs a makeover. When Motivated he can play.


Haynesworth will be let go in a fire sale just to get the dude out of the building. No reason to trade Royal when a 5th by itself will do the trick

Br0nc0Buster
07-16-2011, 09:07 PM
I really dont think any sort of trade like Doom for Williams would be feasible at all.

I think if healthy Doom is one of the premier pass rushers in the league.
I think he can be just as effective in a 4 man front as well, I dont see the need to trade him at all.

As for fat albert, I have no idea why anyone would ever want that stinking pile of feces on their team
He is a fat lazy joke, I wouldnt want him if he offered to play for the league minimum

NFLBRONCO
07-16-2011, 09:19 PM
Why trade a guy that can rush the passer and is a team first guy that wants to be here. He is one of my favs keep him

BroncoMan4ever
07-16-2011, 10:24 PM
1.Elvis Dumerville For Mario Williams-We may need to through in a conditional.
This one makes too much sense. Mario is the premiere 4-3 end. Elvis was the premiere 3-4 Olb. With each of us changing to the other why not? Make it Happen.

2.Eddie Royal for Albert Haynesworth and a 4th.
I love Eddie however I do not believe in him anymore. Eric Decker has the look of a 10 year #2 reciever. Albert needs a makeover. When Motivated he can play.

this idea made me want to kill myself.

Dumervil was not exactly a scrub playing in the 4-3. he is not an every down 4-3 end, i will give you that, but it can be basically guaranteed that with a HC that is a defense guy Doom will be put into positions that will open up opportunities to the QB. also, we finally get the guy a partner to tandem with and you already want to break that up? teams don't just stay in their base defense all the time, there are going to still be times when he stands up and lines up as a OLB. The fact that Doom is a liability in running downs is a reason I would like us to go for Charles Johnson from the Panthers. he is more of an every down DE, and he can be in for Doom on running downs and slide inside in pass situations


Eddie ROyal and a 4th for Haynesworth? i actually want Haynesworth in Denver, but Royal and a 4th is too much to give. Royal is our only currently viable return man. he has shown that if he is given opportunity he is a damn good receiver. I like Decker, but seriously the like 8 catches he had last season haven't made me think a more proven guy like Eddie is suddenly expendable. also an additional 4th is too much for Haynesworth in his current situation.

underrated29
07-16-2011, 11:41 PM
Uhhhh,


maybe its been posted already. I did not read through the thread.


But Eric Decker and all of his like 13 total catches and 3 kick off returns are enough to make him look like a 10 year vet and ship off eddie royal?




The Mcdaniels effect still lingers....

Br0nc0Buster
07-17-2011, 12:01 AM
Im pretty sure our "base" defense (run stopping) is going to be in the 4-3 under variety

regardless, Doom is considered to be an every down player by our staff

I think we could potentiall have one of the best nickel defenses with Von and Doom on the edges

Dukes
07-17-2011, 12:12 AM
I'd be willing to do the Doom trade. But I'm not interested in Haynesworthless at all.

rugbythug
07-17-2011, 07:26 AM
this idea made me want to kill myself.

Dumervil was not exactly a scrub playing in the 4-3. he is not an every down 4-3 end, i will give you that, but it can be basically guaranteed that with a HC that is a defense guy Doom will be put into positions that will open up opportunities to the QB. also, we finally get the guy a partner to tandem with and you already want to break that up? teams don't just stay in their base defense all the time, there are going to still be times when he stands up and lines up as a OLB. The fact that Doom is a liability in running downs is a reason I would like us to go for Charles Johnson from the Panthers. he is more of an every down DE, and he can be in for Doom on running downs and slide inside in pass situations


Eddie ROyal and a 4th for Haynesworth? i actually want Haynesworth in Denver, but Royal and a 4th is too much to give. Royal is our only currently viable return man. he has shown that if he is given opportunity he is a damn good receiver. I like Decker, but seriously the like 8 catches he had last season haven't made me think a more proven guy like Eddie is suddenly expendable. also an additional 4th is too much for Haynesworth in his current situation.
I said haynesworth and a fourth for eddie.

rugbythug
07-17-2011, 07:28 AM
Uhhhh,


maybe its been posted already. I did not read through the thread.


But Eric Decker and all of his like 13 total catches and 3 kick off returns are enough to make him look like a 10 year vet and ship off eddie royal?




The Mcdaniels effect still lingers....
its less about decker and more about royal.

misturanderson
07-17-2011, 07:36 AM
How the hell is there so much opposition for trading a 1-dimensional, short, small speed rusher coming of a missed season due to injury, for a 290 lb. elite, all-around 4-3 DE that was taken #1 overall (and seen as a good value at that spot)? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

If there was ever an offer for Doom for Williams straight up, we shouldn't even think before taking it.

I agree with not trading Royal for Haynesworth (not on the grounds that Royal is worth keeping) though.

Broncoman13
07-17-2011, 08:05 AM
How the hell is there so much opposition for trading a 1-dimensional, short, small speed rusher coming of a missed season due to injury, for a 290 lb. elite, all-around 4-3 DE that was taken #1 overall (and seen as a good value at that spot)? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

If there was ever an offer for Doom for Williams straight up, we shouldn't even think before taking it.

I agree with not trading Royal for Haynesworth (not on the grounds that Royal is worth keeping) though.

Yeah, I wonder why Houston would even consider something like this. They are moving to a 3-4 and Mario Williams is a big DE so he can't move to ROLB? Is that the thought process here? Seems like moving to a 3-4 would allow Super Mario to drop down 10-15 lbs, play at around 280 which is still big for the position, but be more explosive. The guy is a freak athlete. I have no doubts he can play within any system and excel.

The trade we should be talking about is for Mebane, if we even need to trade for him at all???

And I still believe that we are going to have to address the OL pretty early as well. Harris is 90% certain to go to another team. That means you're going to end up with Franklin or Beadles at RT... and the other most likely to end up at LG. Not a winning recipe in my opinion. I will hold off on judging the rookie as I have no idea how he'll play as a pro. But Beadles isn't a power guy. If this running game is going to take off, get the pigs up front to make it happen. You'll never get max value out of any RB if you don't build the line first. Just doesn't make sense to go out and give a guy like D. Williams $35-40m when you have so many question marks up front.

I'd also be up for making Ngata the highest paid DT in the league. If it takes 5 years and $55m, do it! IMO, he is the most dominant lineman in football right now and looks to have another 5-10 years of solid production left in him. The problem is, he'd probably stay in Balt. for 5 years $40m. We are going to have to overpay for a bit until this thing gets on track.

Speaking of over paying, how the hell does Al Davis constantly have the money to give guys 25% more than anyone else in the league?

That One Guy
07-17-2011, 08:42 AM
Uhhhh,


maybe its been posted already. I did not read through the thread.


But Eric Decker and all of his like 13 total catches and 3 kick off returns are enough to make him look like a 10 year vet and ship off eddie royal?




The Mcdaniels effect still lingers....

I never understand this. It's an f'ing 2 and a half page thread. If you want to be in on the conversation, invest 10 minutes to read the thread.

I can understand if you're jumping in late on the Manefeld thread but this one? Quit being lazy.

Dedhed
07-17-2011, 08:55 AM
Man, I was excited to see a football thread, but I'd rather hear about the Kardashians than read "proposals" like this.

Captain 'Dre
07-17-2011, 09:05 AM
I've heard worse ideas.

Me, too, but not in at least a decade. ugh!~

Hamrob
07-17-2011, 09:57 AM
1. Houston would not give up super mario for doom! Mario is a blue chip player. Doom is an over-achiever!

2. Elway/Xanders/Fox would not take the chance on Haynesworth! This is Elway's first year and Xanders is walking on egg shells. I don't see them taking many risks. Take the draft for example...we take a Safety with our 2nd pick...why because he was the #1 rated safety. The thing to do would have been to take a risk on one of those DT's that were available....but, not this year, we're going to play this year's personnel decisions like milk toast. Watch!

cmhargrove
07-17-2011, 10:29 AM
Nothing is "in the bag" when it comes to a rookie that hasn't played a down yet

Just feel like being argumentative for a bit?

We are all making assumptions based on what we saw Miller do in college. If you don't think he's legit, that's probably a topic for another thread. I am operating under the assumption that the coaching staff drafted him to build around him and maximize his strengths.

I fully expect the Dumervil / Miller combo to get 20+ sacks this year.

HAT
07-17-2011, 10:33 AM
How the hell is there so much opposition for trading a 1-dimensional, short, small speed rusher coming of a missed season due to injury, for a 290 lb. elite, all-around 4-3 DE that was taken #1 overall

Because people are stupid.

ICON
07-17-2011, 11:11 AM
Jim Washburn = Jason Babin and Albert Haynesworth.

Gcver2ver3
07-17-2011, 12:34 PM
I fully expect the Dumervil / Miller combo to get 20+ sacks this year.


http://phase3profit.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/I-agree.jpg

underrated29
07-17-2011, 02:04 PM
I never understand this. It's an f'ing 2 and a half page thread. If you want to be in on the conversation, invest 10 minutes to read the thread.

I can understand if you're jumping in late on the Manefeld thread but this one? Quit being lazy.


Normally I would however, it was close to midnight my time when I posted it. I was tired and ready to crash. And 2, this is a pointless thread. Neither of the proposed ideas will Ever ever ever come to fruition.

DrFate
07-17-2011, 02:57 PM
Awful

BroncoMan4ever
07-17-2011, 10:54 PM
How the hell is there so much opposition for trading a 1-dimensional, short, small speed rusher coming of a missed season due to injury, for a 290 lb. elite, all-around 4-3 DE that was taken #1 overall (and seen as a good value at that spot)? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

If there was ever an offer for Doom for Williams straight up, we shouldn't even think before taking it.

I agree with not trading Royal for Haynesworth (not on the grounds that Royal is worth keeping) though.

agreed if the offer was straight up i say pull the trigger in a heartbeat. however, that deal would never come up. it would need to be basically a minimum of Doom and a 1st at least for Williams. we would need to package a Herchel Walker style deal to get Williams from the Texans, hence the reason I was so adament against it. it doesn't improve the team at all to mortgage the present and immediate future to get 1 guy leaving the team with nothing to build upon.

broncogary
07-18-2011, 08:10 AM
1. Houston would not give up super mario for doom! Mario is a blue chip player. Doom is an over-achiever!

...

Yep, and Mario is an under-achiever.

Spider
07-18-2011, 08:13 AM
You negged repped me once because I let my two year old watch spongebob.

LOL you bastard

Spider
07-18-2011, 08:18 AM
trading doom off after we had a excellent draft ?
Lets be honest Doom was doing alot ,with not so talented guys helping him .........
lets give him his chance

Cito Pelon
07-18-2011, 08:31 AM
How the hell is there so much opposition for trading a 1-dimensional, short, small speed rusher coming of a missed season due to injury, for a 290 lb. elite, all-around 4-3 DE that was taken #1 overall (and seen as a good value at that spot)? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

If there was ever an offer for Doom for Williams straight up, we shouldn't even think before taking it.

I agree with not trading Royal for Haynesworth (not on the grounds that Royal is worth keeping) though.

I'm not sure why people think Mario is so much better than Elvis.

Mario - 48 sacks, 230 total tackles in 5 yrs, starting from day one.
Elvis - 43 sacks, 128 total tackles in 4 yrs, was situational passrusher his rookie year, so obviously doesn't have near as many plays to get the tackle stats up.

What makes you think Mario is that much better than Elvis?

Spider
07-18-2011, 08:33 AM
I'm not sure why people think Mario is so much better than Elvis.

Mario - 48 sacks, 230 total tackles in 5 yrs, starting from day one.
Elvis - 43 sacks, 128 total tackles in 4 yrs, was situational passrusher his rookie year, so obviously doesn't have near as many plays to get the tackle stats up.

What makes you think Mario is that much better than Elvis?

not aimed at me , but doesnt Mario play the run better ?

Requiem
07-18-2011, 08:34 AM
He's an every down player on a consistent level from the end position, with much less liability in the run game.

TheReverend
07-18-2011, 08:40 AM
Just feel like being argumentative for a bit?

We are all making assumptions based on what we saw Miller do in college. If you don't think he's legit, that's probably a topic for another thread. I am operating under the assumption that the coaching staff drafted him to build around him and maximize his strengths.

I fully expect the Dumervil / Miller combo to get 20+ sacks this year.

No, I'm saying if the reality of option 1 was possible, it'd be completely absurd to ignore it based on a hypothetical possibility.

...not to mention Elvis is coming off surgery.

Traveler
07-18-2011, 08:45 AM
1.Elvis Dumerville For Mario Williams-We may need to through in a conditional.
This one makes too much sense. Mario is the premiere 4-3 end. Elvis was the premiere 3-4 Olb. With each of us changing to the other why not? Make it Happen.

2.Eddie Royal for Albert Haynesworth and a 4th.
I love Eddie however I do not believe in him anymore. Eric Decker has the look of a 10 year #2 reciever. Albert needs a makeover. When Motivated he can play.

Fail!

Cito Pelon
07-18-2011, 08:47 AM
not aimed at me , but doesnt Mario play the run better ?

Yeah, he's better against the run. I'd probably make the trade straight up, but felt the need to defend my adoptee.

Spider
07-18-2011, 08:55 AM
Yeah, he's better against the run. I'd probably make the trade straight up, but felt the need to defend my adoptee.

I dont know if I would , with some of the draft pics we got , I would take a wait and see approach

Beantown Bronco
07-18-2011, 08:56 AM
I would just like to see us sign Leon Washington and fix our return game that way.

As long as the Broncos reside in Denver, they'll never truly "fix" the return game in any significant way IMO. ESPECIALLY now that the kickoffs have been moved back to the 35. Think about it. I'd be willing to bet that 95% of all kickoffs and punts in Denver will result in either touchbacks or fair catches. And most likely 75% or more of the kickoffs on the road will result in touchbacks, so unless you see our defense all of a sudden forcing a ton of three and outs and pinning the opponents deep, you're really only talking about one or two punts a game that we'll have a chance to set up a decent return. And that's only if the ball isn't kicked out of bounds. How much do you really invest in such a position with so little potential impact?

Mediator12
07-18-2011, 09:08 AM
I'm not sure why people think Mario is so much better than Elvis.

Mario - 48 sacks, 230 total tackles in 5 yrs, starting from day one.
Elvis - 43 sacks, 128 total tackles in 4 yrs, was situational passrusher his rookie year, so obviously doesn't have near as many plays to get the tackle stats up.

What makes you think Mario is that much better than Elvis?

Dumervil is a pass rusher who has never been able to hold the edge on run defense and gets crushed against power running teams.

Mario is double teamed on almost every run OR pass play and still makes plays with very little support on his DL, just like Dumervil.

This is not about stats, its about one guy affecting everything an offense does in the blocking scheme on run and pass plays, versus a guy who only needs attention on passing plays.

Beantown Bronco
07-18-2011, 09:09 AM
Mario is double teamed on almost every run OR pass play and still makes plays with very little support on his DL,

Scary considering how much they've invested in that line. They're like the anti-Broncos in that regard.

Mediator12
07-18-2011, 09:13 AM
HOU's defense has totally underperformed the last few years and I am sad to say it was under the watch of DEN's own former LB's and DB's coach Frank Bush. Frank is a real good guy, but he is a position coach, not a DC in this league yet, if ever.

I will say this, their DL has underperformed with some risky draft picks and FA additions. Their DL coaches have not done their job very well IMHO.

TheReverend
07-18-2011, 09:18 AM
HOU's defense has totally underperformed the last few years and I am sad to say it was under the watch of DEN's own former LB's and DB's coach Frank Bush. Frank is a real good guy, but he is a position coach, not a DC in this league yet, if ever.

I will say this, their DL has underperformed with some risky draft picks and FA additions. Their DL coaches have not done their job very well IMHO.

Amobi just can't play at a high level, imo. I don't think it's for lack of effort or coaching, but his ceiling is just lower than scouts anticipated.

Making a play for Shaun Cody from Detroit a few years back was just stupid and has proved as much.

Hopefully Wade gets them fixed up and if it nets us Super Mario in the process, so be it.

Mediator12
07-18-2011, 09:25 AM
Amobi just can't play at a high level, imo. I don't think it's for lack of effort or coaching, but his ceiling is just lower than scouts anticipated.

Making a play for Shaun Cody from Detroit a few years back was just stupid and has proved as much.

Hopefully Wade gets them fixed up and if it nets us Super Mario in the process, so be it.

Their personnel fits Wades 3-4 way better than the standard 2 gap system. however, unless Mario adapts as well as Demarcus Ware did to standing up its a waste and they are likely to get pummeled by INDY right out of the gate after what they did to them last year.

TheReverend
07-18-2011, 09:27 AM
Their personnel fits Wades 3-4 way better than the standard 2 gap system. however, unless Mario adapts as well as Demarcus Ware did to standing up its a waste and they are likely to get pummeled by INDY right out of the gate after what they did to them last year.

Yeah, I just don't see a 300 lb man playing rush end (OLB) no matter how cute his combine work out was.

Cito Pelon
07-18-2011, 09:31 AM
I dont know if I would , with some of the draft pics we got , I would take a wait and see approach

I see your point, the LB's and S's (which Denver drafted) are supposed to clean up if you have a DE that's not strong against the run. Elvis at least engages his OT and keeps him out of the 2nd level. He neutralizes his guy, it's up to the LB's and S's to bring the RB down.

Mediator12
07-18-2011, 09:37 AM
I see your point, the LB's and S's (which Denver drafted) are supposed to clean up if you have a DE that's not strong against the run. Elvis at least engages his OT and keeps him out of the 2nd level. He neutralizes his guy, it's up to the LB's and S's to bring the RB down.

What? Are you serious? The guy gets washed off the edge worse than almost any RDE in the league. Heck, even Freeney plays the edge better than Dumervil.

Spider
07-18-2011, 09:37 AM
I see your point, the LB's and S's (which Denver drafted) are supposed to clean up if you have a DE that's not strong against the run. Elvis at least engages his OT and keeps him out of the 2nd level. He neutralizes his guy, it's up to the LB's and S's to bring the RB down.

;D I think there is room in this defense for a specialized pass rusher , having a fresh set of legs in the 4 th on passing plays that is a real threat can pay off

s0phr0syne
07-18-2011, 09:46 AM
There is room for a specialized pass rusher for sure, but I think the idea of the trade took into account the fact that Doom's new contract isn't for a 3rd-down pass rushing specialist, but rather for a full-time, effective player, which he would have been as an OLB.

Since we've decided that we're changing BACK to a 4-3, it really does neutralize his effectiveness. What's the point of having a pass rush specialist if you can't force the opposing team into consistent passing situations? They can run right at Doom all day, and bust a counter for a long gain on the other side once we over commit other players to help him out.

So I don't think I understand why people are jumping all over the OP as being "fail" or not-well thought out.

People say 3-4 vs 4-3 is just a front, but it's been shown repeatedly that not every player is going to go through the conversion of systems maintaining their effectiveness. Kampan was a casualty of this (and injury), and it looks like Mario might be too, unless as noted above he makes the conversion seamlessly.

Cito Pelon
07-18-2011, 09:49 AM
Dumervil is a pass rusher who has never been able to hold the edge on run defense and gets crushed against power running teams.

Mario is double teamed on almost every run OR pass play and still makes plays with very little support on his DL, just like Dumervil.

This is not about stats, its about one guy affecting everything an offense does in the blocking scheme on run and pass plays, versus a guy who only needs attention on passing plays.

I can see that. Elvis doesn't push OT's around disrupting running plays, but as I said above he does - from what I've seen at least - keep his OT engaged if it's just Elvis against the OT.

If Elvis gets double teamed on running plays one of those guys will consistenly get to the second level, sure.

One little thing about Elvis at DE - if he does get beat at the LOS he'll pursue the RB downfield a long ways and has made some good pursuit tackles that way. You have to include that when you discuss Dumervil. There's a lot of DE's that will not pursue downfield after they get beat at the LOS.

Cito Pelon
07-18-2011, 09:59 AM
What? Are you serious? The guy gets washed off the edge worse than almost any RDE in the league. Heck, even Freeney plays the edge better than Dumervil.

As I said, Elvis at least engages his OT and keeps him out of the second level - if it's just him one on one against the OT.

Are you saying if Dumervil faces an OT one on one the OT routinely pancakes him then gets up and engages an LB?

Mediator12
07-18-2011, 10:11 AM
As I said, Elvis at least engages his OT and keeps him out of the second level - if it's just him one on one against the OT.

Are you saying if Dumervil faces an OT one on one the OT routinely pancakes him then gets up and engages an LB?

NO. The problem is the RDE has to contain the outside and "Set the edge" to keep the RB from getting outside in a 4-3 scheme. Dumervil gets handled by most OT's and either gets driven so far outside to let the RB get the edge or gets stopped at the LOS and allows the back to take the edge. That is WHY he fails in the running game. He can not routinely do his run responsibility. He gets blown out of his gap way too often.

rugbythug
07-18-2011, 10:24 AM
NO. The problem is the RDE has to contain the outside and "Set the edge" to keep the RB from getting outside in a 4-3 scheme. Dumervil gets handled by most OT's and either gets driven so far outside to let the RB get the edge or gets stopped at the LOS and allows the back to take the edge. That is WHY he fails in the running game. He can not routinely do his run responsibility. He gets blown out of his gap way too often.

This is the one thing ayers has done well at

TheReverend
07-18-2011, 10:25 AM
This is the one thing ayers has done well at

Not consistently. Yet.

rugbythug
07-18-2011, 10:25 AM
Its funny to me how many fails I am getting.

Haynesworth would be our best dt since Trevor price.

Cito Pelon
07-18-2011, 10:28 AM
NO. The problem is the RDE has to contain the outside and "Set the edge" to keep the RB from getting outside in a 4-3 scheme. Dumervil gets handled by most OT's and either gets driven so far outside to let the RB get the edge or gets stopped at the LOS and allows the back to take the edge. That is WHY he fails in the running game. He can not routinely do his run responsibility. He gets blown out of his gap way too often.

I can see that. I f'd up saying Elvis "neutralizes his OT". The best I can say is he at least keeps the OT off of the second level if he's one on one, he does that much.

And also, to his credit, he pursues the RB downfield as well as any DE I've ever seen. Throw the dog a bone, dude.

cutthemdown
07-18-2011, 10:30 AM
Didn't I have us getting the pick?

Yeah but you said Royal, I threw it out there it could end up being Orton that goes to DC IMO.

BroncoBuff
07-20-2011, 04:41 PM
Doom trade is a bad idea. Elvis and Von Miller will be 2nd coming of Mecklenburg+Rulon Jones, maybe better. That duo will win games.

I'm actually bullish on Haynesworth ... great player with something to prove, wants to play in a 4-3. If he can suppress his jerk tendencies long enough to prove himself he'd be worth it. And we're ridiculously weak at DT.

Dagmar
07-20-2011, 04:55 PM
Doom trade is a bad idea. Elvis and Von Miller will be 2nd coming of Mecklenburg+Rulon Jones, maybe better. That duo will win games.

I'm actually bullish on Haynesworth ... great player with something to prove, wants to play in a 4-3. If he can suppress his jerk tendencies long enough to prove himself he'd be worth it. And we're ridiculously weak at DT.

This.

BroncoMan4ever
07-20-2011, 06:08 PM
Doom trade is a bad idea. Elvis and Von Miller will be 2nd coming of Mecklenburg+Rulon Jones, maybe better. That duo will win games.

I'm actually bullish on Haynesworth ... great player with something to prove, wants to play in a 4-3. If he can suppress his jerk tendencies long enough to prove himself he'd be worth it. And we're ridiculously weak at DT.

agreed on Hayneworth. i have been a proponent of bring him to Denver this offseason. he is a dick, but when motivated and in the system he likes he is a top 5 DT in the league. Denver has a need, the correct system and a very player friendly coach.