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View Full Version : Paige: Moreno not what McD thought.


tsiguy96
07-14-2011, 10:54 AM
What I do know — from someone who worked closely with Josh and is someone I trust to tell me the truth — is that after the draft, McDaniels and the staff believed privately they made a big mistake on Moreno. He was not what they thought. He hasn't been tough, smart, motivated, if that's what you're asking. He has been a bust. I've said it before. He's not a great clubhouse guy. Interpret that how you want, and he's been a wimp on the field.

http://www.denverpost.com/woodysmailbag/ci_18472436

more in the link. its paige, so take it for what its worth.

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 11:02 AM
Opinionated as he may be (for better or for worse), his mail bag is world's more in depth and superior to the rest.

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 11:06 AM
Ayers, I believe, will be pushed for his starting job and may end up alternating at end. That would be a waste for a first-round draft pick. Quinn is like Brady Quinn, mostly invisible.

If we don't sign Johnson or pull off a trade, we'll have no one capable of pushing Ayers into an alternate role.

Smiling Assassin27
07-14-2011, 11:09 AM
If we don't sign Johnson or pull off a trade, we'll have no one capable of pushing Ayers into an alternate role.


So apparently, Ayers was not what McD thought either. Munchkin boy set a new low for draft prep, I'd say.

DBroncos4life
07-14-2011, 11:11 AM
If we don't sign Johnson or pull off a trade, we'll have no one capable of pushing Ayers into an alternate role.

Jason Hunter

StugotsIII
07-14-2011, 11:11 AM
McD was a terrible talent evaluator.

All he should be in charge of is the passing game of the offense…nothing more.

bowtown
07-14-2011, 11:15 AM
Opinionated as he may be (for better or for worse), his mail bag is world's more in depth and superior to the rest.

It's not really the fact that he's opinionated that bothers me, it's the truth stretching and sensationalizm. His mailbags are interesting enough reads, but it's impossible to gauge how much of it is actually truth and how much of it is something he got from the guy who delivers Josh his pizza. Woody is the king of taking a small off handed remark or minor event and blowing it up into a crazy story. It's more entertaining than most of the other Denver beat writers, but I put absolutely no stock in any of it.

bowtown
07-14-2011, 11:17 AM
If we don't sign Johnson or pull off a trade, we'll have no one capable of pushing Ayers into an alternate role.

Won't matter. We're building the line around Vickerson. All the other guys will just be minor role players.

yerner
07-14-2011, 11:22 AM
If Moreno was drafted in the 2nd round would he still be considered a bust?

cmhargrove
07-14-2011, 11:22 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/woodysmailbag/ci_18472436

more in the link. its paige, so take it for what its worth.

Has anyone talked to Tebow about this yet? I'm sure he's got it covered.

vancejohnson82
07-14-2011, 11:26 AM
just because he isn't what McD thought he was doesnt mean he is a bust

honestly, when he came out of college I thought he was versatile, tough, smart and motivated....exactly what you want in a first round pick...I thought we got a steal

in the end though he seems to just be a change of pace back who really doesnt care much for football. He's talented as all hell but without that extra gear and work ethic he is nothing more than just your average NFL baller

sucks...its almost as if he sold himself in college to be something he cant deliver on

WolfpackGuy
07-14-2011, 11:29 AM
I'm gonna sue Paige for plagiarism.

vancejohnson82
07-14-2011, 11:32 AM
I'm gonna sue Paige for plagiarism.

"Paigearism"

Garcia Bronco
07-14-2011, 11:57 AM
If Moreno was drafted in the 2nd round would he still be considered a bust?

Less likely...but to me his a bust.

Garcia Bronco
07-14-2011, 11:57 AM
just because he isn't what McD thought he was doesnt mean he is a bust

honestly, when he came out of college I thought he was versatile, tough, smart and motivated....exactly what you want in a first round pick...I thought we got a steal

in the end though he seems to just be a change of pace back who really doesnt care much for football. He's talented as all hell but without that extra gear and work ethic he is nothing more than just your average NFL baller

sucks...its almost as if he sold himself in college to be something he cant deliver on

If you needed one yard for a first down...you gonna hand it to him excluding all other factors? I wouldn't

cutthemdown
07-14-2011, 11:58 AM
Most of us knew this already. He's not a stud running back, he's a very avg running back, and not a bell cow everydown back.

cutthemdown
07-14-2011, 12:00 PM
If Moreno was drafted in the 2nd round would he still be considered a bust?

If he was drafted lower then you would not notice him as much and therefore he could perhaps escape the bust label, for the never was and who cares label. Fact is though he isn't our answer at RB. That search is still on.

titan
07-14-2011, 12:02 PM
McD was a terrible talent evaluator.

All he should be in charge of is the passing game of the offense…nothing more.

Totally agree. After Shanahan was let go the one thing I wanted in a replacement was the best talent evaluator the Broncos could get (as a GM). Instead they hired the exact opposite (a young coach over his head in the player evaluation dept)

The draft pick haul they got for Cutler was actually pretty good, and then they proceeded to waste them.

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 12:02 PM
If Moreno was drafted in the 2nd round would he still be considered a bust?

So far, he's no Tatum Bell.

Depressing as that sounds.

vancejohnson82
07-14-2011, 12:02 PM
If you needed one yard for a first down...you gonna hand it to him excluding all other factors? I wouldn't

I'm not giving it to him with our O-line from last year....I'm still giving it to him this year though. If he doesnt perform, he is out the door

Beantown Bronco
07-14-2011, 12:09 PM
What's hilarious is that, over the past two years, he's been arguably one of the top 5 players on this team and yet here we are with two very active "he's a bust" threads on page one.

Call him a disappointment if you must. Hell, the whole team has been a disappointment. But I just can't see how you can call him a bust. Outside of the QB position, busts don't put up 8 TDs per year. Especially on arguably the worst red zone run blocking team in NFL history.

Taco John
07-14-2011, 12:19 PM
If Moreno was drafted in the 2nd round would he still be considered a bust?


No, but he'd still be considered a player who hasn't reached his potential.

peacepipe
07-14-2011, 12:23 PM
What's hilarious is that, over the past two years, he's been arguably one of the top 5 players on this team and yet here we are with two very active "he's a bust" threads on page one.

Call him a disappointment if you must. Hell, the whole team has been a disappointment. But I just can't see how you can call him a bust. Outside of the QB position, busts don't put up 8 TDs per year. Especially on arguably the worst red zone run blocking team in NFL history.what's hilarious is that anyone thought he was a top 5 player on the team.

Taco John
07-14-2011, 12:28 PM
If you needed one yard for a first down...you gonna hand it to him excluding all other factors? I wouldn't

Neither would Josh McDaniels. On third down and less than three yards, Moreno got a grand total of 2 carries last year. Those two carries happened to be half of all of his third down carries (grand total of 4).

I personally can't blame Josh for drafting Moreno at 12. I thought he would be a steal there. I thought he looked like the newest version of AP. Instead what we got was a less reliable Tatum Bell. Moreno is serviceable, at least in my opinion, but serviceable is a long distance away from being drafted at #12 overall with "next AP" dreams tagging along with him.

Gcver2ver3
07-14-2011, 12:30 PM
even the biggest homer has to admit at this point, moreno has been a solid disappointment...

as far as ayers, i'm still giving him one more year before labeling him a bust...i believe this year he has a chance to play in his more natural position and with a more competent defensive staff...at least thats my hope...

Gcver2ver3
07-14-2011, 12:32 PM
i also want to add, that while i am in agreement McD struggled as a talent evaluater, i'm not sure i can come down on him for being wrong about knowshon...

knowshon was pretty much considered a top end back by everyone coming out of college and graded the best rb in the draft...

DrFate
07-14-2011, 12:36 PM
If Moreno was drafted in the 2nd round would he still be considered a bust?

If granny had wheels, would she be a bicycle?

Taco John
07-14-2011, 12:40 PM
even the biggest homer has to admit at this point, moreno has been a solid disappointment...

as far as ayers, i'm still giving him one more year before labeling him a bust...i believe this year he has a chance to play in his more natural position and with a more competent defensive staff...at least thats my hope...

Isn't your avatar Goldar? He turns into a jet plane, right?

This was my favorite show as a kid. I wish I could find it for my son.

NUB
07-14-2011, 12:51 PM
Eric Decker, who looks and acts and plays like a young Ed McCaffrey

Yeesh.

Beantown Bronco
07-14-2011, 12:55 PM
what's hilarious is that anyone thought he was a top 5 player on the team.

1. I said arguably.

2. I said "over the course of the last two years". Not "who had a better 2010" guys like Lloyd. Or "who had a better 2009" guys like Dumervil. They had to have two consistently good years back to back. It's scary how few can say they did it.

3. Name them.

maher_tyler
07-14-2011, 01:00 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/woodysmailbag/ci_18472436

more in the link. its paige, so take it for what its worth.

The same Moreno that asked DWill's mom to wear #27?? Hmmmmm...

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 01:10 PM
1. I said arguably.

2. I said "over the course of the last two years". Not "who had a better 2010" guys like Lloyd. Or "who had a better 2009" guys like Dumervil. They had to have two consistently good years back to back. It's scary how few can say they did it.

3. Name them.

Odd qualifier, imo.

rugbythug
07-14-2011, 01:14 PM
I would like to see him fail with a better run scheme before I kick dirt on him.

Beantown Bronco
07-14-2011, 01:16 PM
Odd qualifier, imo.

I don't know why. Anyone can have one standout year. Can they do it over the course of multiple years though? Just look at what Lloyd did last year. Would anyone really argue that he's a top 3 WR in this league based off of that one season?

cutthemdown
07-14-2011, 01:16 PM
1. I said arguably.

2. I said "over the course of the last two years". Not "who had a better 2010" guys like Lloyd. Or "who had a better 2009" guys like Dumervil. They had to have two consistently good years back to back. It's scary how few can say they did it.

3. Name them.

Sort of ridiculous to use 2 of the worst Broncos seasons ever as ammo to say look Moreno one of the best on the team.

Beantown Bronco
07-14-2011, 01:24 PM
Sort of ridiculous to use 2 of the worst Broncos seasons ever as ammo to say look Moreno one of the best on the team.

I honestly don't get why it's ridiculous. So we've sucked as a team. Great. Just because his "average" numbers put him at the top of the "producers list" doesn't mean he's not there at the top. Is he at the top of the league wide lists? Nope. But he's at the top of the Broncos lists. I know it's hard to admit that such an "average" performer is one of our better players, but it seems to be the case. At least to me. And I've yet to hear a logical argument that he's not.

Rabb
07-14-2011, 01:25 PM
Sort of ridiculous to use 2 of the worst Broncos seasons ever as ammo to say look Moreno one of the best on the team.

well, seeing that it's the only time he was here...

cutthemdown
07-14-2011, 01:35 PM
well, seeing that it's the only time he was here...

Sounds like the coaches question how hard he works to top it off. So he has some avg numbers on a crappy team. The one yr Buckhalter was obviously doing more them Moreno was. Look at what Hillis did when Moreno was injured. Sorry I just don't see it, Moreno not a good football player.

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 01:36 PM
I don't know why. Anyone can have one standout year. Can they do it over the course of multiple years though? Just look at what Lloyd did last year. Would anyone really argue that he's a top 3 WR in this league based off of that one season?

No, but he's had a decade of mediocrity to make him a journey man.

*See Knowshon's 2 years*

cutthemdown
07-14-2011, 01:36 PM
I honestly don't get why it's ridiculous. So we've sucked as a team. Great. Just because his "average" numbers put him at the top of the "producers list" doesn't mean he's not there at the top. Is he at the top of the league wide lists? Nope. But he's at the top of the Broncos lists. I know it's hard to admit that such an "average" performer is one of our better players, but it seems to be the case. At least to me. And I've yet to hear a logical argument that he's not.

IMO both Buck and Hillis looked better then Moreno did when they were healthy.

bronco militia
07-14-2011, 01:39 PM
the offseason:

good posters having to argue about average players on a crappy team.

Beantown Bronco
07-14-2011, 01:50 PM
Look at what Hillis did when Moreno was injured.

IMO both Buck and Hillis looked better then Moreno did when they were healthy.

Ummmm, Hillis never replaced an injured Moreno and he played like absolute dog crap for the Broncos in 2009 when Moreno was here.

Requiem
07-14-2011, 01:59 PM
Hard to realistically hate on a guy who has been one our most productive players in yardage and scoring. Couple that in with the fact he played in a system that surely negated rushing opportunities and an offensive line who was inconsistent and poor all year long. This year for the line should be better, but hope Franklin is on his A game to start as a rookie. I think he will do much better this year.

Kaylore
07-14-2011, 02:23 PM
Moreno hasn't been that bad. And it's easy to look in hindsight and say we should have taken Orakpo or Malcolm Jenkins or whoever. At the time, Moreno wasn't considered a reach, he just wasn't considered a need and their position was defended because they "stuck to their board."

Well if your board is bad, then it doesn't matter what philosophy you're using in the draft.

Someone mentioned lack of preparation. I believe they had like three months to put everything together. I think that is why so many of the picks didn't turn out how we hoped.

Taco John
07-14-2011, 02:27 PM
I don't remember what the consensus picks were in our own mock drafts during Josh's first year. I don't remember Moreno being a favorite in them.

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 02:29 PM
Moreno hasn't been that bad. And it's easy to look in hindsight and say we should have taken Orakpo or Malcolm Jenkins or whoever. At the time, Moreno wasn't considered a reach, he just wasn't considered a need and their position was defended because they "stuck to their board."

Well if your board is bad, then it doesn't matter what philosophy you're using in the draft.

Someone mentioned lack of preparation. I believe they had like three months to put everything together. I think that is why so many of the picks didn't turn out how we hoped.

Well they certainly put themselves in that corner with their impromptu firing of the heads of the scouting department...

And when you're under prepared, why in god's name would you trade a future first for a 2nd round midget ****ing corner? I never have and never will understand this shennanigans unless their "Draft Board" consisted of a Mike Mayock web clipping.

Requiem
07-14-2011, 02:30 PM
That is because nobody expected him to draft a back with the first pick. However, after realizing the lack of talent we did have at the time, we did need a back.

CEH
07-14-2011, 02:30 PM
Moreno hasn't been that bad. And it's easy to look in hindsight and say we should have taken Orakpo or Malcolm Jenkins or whoever. At the time, Moreno wasn't considered a reach, he just wasn't considered a need and their position was defended because they "stuck to their board."

Well if your board is bad, then it doesn't matter what philosophy you're using in the draft.

Someone mentioned lack of preparation. I believe they had like three months to put everything together. I think that is why so many of the picks didn't turn out how we hoped.

I heard they had zero Southeastern scouts available after the Goodman departures yet we selected 3 players from the SEC and ACC with our top 3 picks. If true then 2009 was a major cluster - you - know - what.

"Shortly after the draft" then he trades Hillis a year later. Seems odd if true

Taco John
07-14-2011, 02:32 PM
That is because nobody expected him to draft a back with the first pick. However, after realizing the lack of talent we did have at the time, we did need a back.

That's debatable. The near universal sentiment here was that Hillis was our feature back (even further, that Josh would be an idiot not to use him as the feature back), and that we needed to use our draft picks to focus on defense (ie. Nose tackle or DT), especially with the shift to the 3-4.

oubronco
07-14-2011, 02:33 PM
What's hilarious is that, over the past two years, he's been arguably one of the top 5 players on this team and yet here we are with two very active "he's a bust" threads on page one.

Call him a disappointment if you must. Hell, the whole team has been a disappointment. But I just can't see how you can call him a bust. Outside of the QB position, busts don't put up 8 TDs per year. Especially on arguably the worst red zone run blocking team in NFL history.

Exactly he's been very disappointing but so has the whole team lets see what he does with a better Coach and O-line

Requiem
07-14-2011, 02:39 PM
You really didn't debate it. You reinforced reasons why people didn't expect us to take a back first. It's quite obvious why people wanted defense. FWIW, I can see why !osh did draft a back first. All the injuries and uncertainty.

Requiem
07-14-2011, 02:41 PM
1,200 APY and 8.5 TD a year for his first two years is very disappointing? Wow. I'd say that's good.

OABB
07-14-2011, 02:44 PM
1,200 APY and 8.5 TD a year for his first two years is very disappointing? Wow. I'd say that's good.

Thats because you arent spoiled and ****y.

maher_tyler
07-14-2011, 02:45 PM
Exactly he's been very disappointing but so has the whole team lets see what he does with a better Coach and O-line

With a better coach who is more geared towards the run, at least average oline play and he stays healthy...i see him breaking 1k yards.

yerner
07-14-2011, 03:07 PM
If granny had wheels, would she be a bicycle?

My point is that he has had productive NFL seasons. Not fantastic but he has proved he is at least capable of contributing to an NFL team. Bust's aren't guys that aren't even doing that. People tend to get caught up with the draft slot too much.

Gcver2ver3
07-14-2011, 03:21 PM
Isn't your avatar Goldar? He turns into a jet plane, right?

This was my favorite show as a kid. I wish I could find it for my son.

you and i both sir...

smiling assassin caught it too...

much props to anyone that remembers Goldar, dude is totally underrated...

Smiling Assassin27
07-14-2011, 03:29 PM
you and i both sir...

smiling assassin caught it too...

much props to anyone that remembers Goldar, dude is totally underrated...


hey, if you like Goldar, you'll love Spectreman and Inframan. Good, cheesy Japanese retro-heroes rule.

I always think of these super heroes when I hear Mr. Roboto by Styx. ROFL!

Champagne Powder
07-14-2011, 03:33 PM
Ummmm, Hillis never replaced an injured Moreno and he played like absolute dog crap for the Broncos in 2009 when Moreno was here.

Your original point on Moreno was a good argument, but now you are reaching hard.

Hillis had 54 yards on 13 carries (4.2 average) in 2009. It's such a small sample size. You are going overboard by calling his performance "dog crap".

Outside of garbage time in Kansas City (week 13) that year, Hillis never got more than two touches from scrimmage in a single game!!!

broncocalijohn
07-14-2011, 03:34 PM
I'm gonna sue Paige for plagiarism.

Bronco Warrior says, "Me first". I guess he had that piece since he got the info from his BYU football coach.
RB and DT scares me and damn, I hope Free agents want to play here over other teams that are contending for playoffs now.

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 03:36 PM
hey, if you like Goldar, you'll love Spectreman and Inframan. Good, cheesy Japanese retro-heroes rule.

I always think of these super heroes when I hear Mr. Roboto by Styx. ROFL!

http://images.wikia.com/godzilla/images/2/21/Ultraman.jpg

Ultraman or gtfo, imo

bowtown
07-14-2011, 03:37 PM
Bronco Warrior says, "Me first". I guess he had that piece since he got the info from his BYU football coach.
RB and DT scares me and damn, I hope Free agents want to play here over other teams that are contending for playoffs now.

BW mentored Woody.

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 03:38 PM
BW mentored Woody.

BW is Schefter's source.

broncosteven
07-14-2011, 03:47 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/woodysmailbag/ci_18472436

more in the link. its paige, so take it for what its worth.

Did you write in to Woody defending mCd's tenure as strenuously as you did when you lived in UnicornHappyLand 18 months ago?

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 03:49 PM
Did you write in to Woody defending mCd's tenure as strenuously as you did when you lived in UnicornHappyLand 18 months ago?

Na, he read on twitter than McDaniels actually did do a poor job.

TheChamp24
07-14-2011, 03:49 PM
Too many people ride Moreno's nuts sticking he's an awesome back.
For the 12th overall pick in the draft you don't want average production. He's not horrible, but he isn't great and that 12th overall pick moniker makes him horrible value.
I never liked him coming out of Georgia, who ran him into the ground, he was never a speedster, and never broke a lot of tackles.
What has he shown in Denver? He lacks speed/explosiveness, doesn't break a lot of big runs/plays/tackles and has constant injuries.

Smiling Assassin27
07-14-2011, 03:53 PM
http://images.wikia.com/godzilla/images/2/21/Ultraman.jpg

Ultraman or gtfo, imo


Man, Inframan is 6 million light years beyond believability and is powered by nuclear energy.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3QXP0LVnd3k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

broncosteven
07-14-2011, 03:54 PM
At least now we know why he traded for VOLTRON...wait...maybe not, VOLTRON didn't produce at all, at least KM can catch the ball and make guys miss in space.

Captain 'Dre
07-14-2011, 04:22 PM
So apparently, Ayers was not what McD thought either. Munchkin boy set a new low for draft prep, I'd say.

Moreno... Ayers... Al Smith, anyone? ugh!~

Jebus! A monkey tossing darts at a draft board would likely have made better picks... and without trading a future #1 for Smith! ugh!~ ugh!~

Captain 'Dre
07-14-2011, 04:24 PM
Too many people ride Moreno's nuts sticking he's an awesome back.
For the 12th overall pick in the draft you don't want average production. He's not horrible, but he isn't great and that 12th overall pick moniker makes him horrible value.
I never liked him coming out of Georgia, who ran him into the ground, he was never a speedster, and never broke a lot of tackles.
What has he shown in Denver? He lacks speed/explosiveness, doesn't break a lot of big runs/plays/tackles and has constant injuries.

He looks like a really decent 3rd Down back.

At least... he would if he had a good work ethic and was a solid locker room presence.

DBroncos4life
07-14-2011, 04:49 PM
Too many people ride Moreno's nuts sticking he's an awesome back.
For the 12th overall pick in the draft you don't want average production. He's not horrible, but he isn't great and that 12th overall pick moniker makes him horrible value.
I never liked him coming out of Georgia, who ran him into the ground, he was never a speedster, and never broke a lot of tackles.
What has he shown in Denver? He lacks speed/explosiveness, doesn't break a lot of big runs/plays/tackles and has constant injuries.

That draft year sucked for RB's. I like Moreno but I'm in the group that thinks a top 15 back in the draft should be producing bigger numbers. I'll give him a pass though because he was playing for the worst coach in the NFL.

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 04:52 PM
That draft year sucked for RB's. I like Moreno but I'm in the group that thinks a top 15 back in the draft should be producing bigger numbers. I'll give him a pass though because he was playing for the worst coach in the NFL.

I feel this way, but I still think when the team needed him to man the **** up and play, he wouldn't.

He's a player I'm optimistic about that I wouldn't rely on. Like McBath. ... and his contingency plan has already been acquired.

DBroncos4life
07-14-2011, 05:05 PM
I feel this way, but I still think when the team needed him to man the **** up and play, he wouldn't.

He's a player I'm optimistic about that I wouldn't rely on. Like McBath. ... and his contingency plan has already been acquired.

I honestly had bigger hopes for Ayers this year but, maybe I'm wrong. Can you see Charles Johnson being a effective left end?

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 05:10 PM
I honestly had bigger hopes for Ayers this year but, maybe I'm wrong. Can you see Charles Johnson being a effective left end?

That's where he's played his whole career, bro (since Rucker retired).

I also have high hopes for Ayers in a 4-3. Regardless of if he warrants those hopes or not, another end is practically a necessity with questions at both end spots:

1. Can Ayers step up?
2. Can Elvis return to form from injury?

And even if both are yes's... Johnson has another 25 lbs on Elvis to contribute on rushing downs and a much better finisher than Ayers (who hopefully will rush from the inside on passing downs anyway) on passing downs.

Rock Chalk
07-14-2011, 05:26 PM
So apparently, Ayers was not what McD thought either. Munchkin boy set a new low for draft prep, I'd say.

People on this site like to parrot Mayock at the NFL Draft and how intelligent he is.

Mayock had Cutler, Moreno and Ayers as the best players at their position in each draft.

He must suck too.

Actually he might be right on Cutler, which just means that was the year of the ****ty QB with poor mental focus (re: Cutler, Lienart, Young). Moreno and Ayers he was wrong on.

That being said I still think Ayers is a solid player and at DE in a 4-3 might be even better. Moreno hard to judge. Injuries aren't but actual ability, hard to say. The line was just so horrendous last year. No one would have been awesome or even good.

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 05:28 PM
People on this site like to parrot Mayock at the NFL Draft and how intelligent he is.

Mayock had Cutler, Moreno and Ayers as the best players at their position in each draft.

He must suck too.

Actually he might be right on Cutler, which just means that was the year of the ****ty QB with poor mental focus (re: Cutler, Lienart, Young). Moreno and Ayers he was wrong on.

That being said I still think Ayers is a solid player and at DE in a 4-3 might be even better. Moreno hard to judge. Injuries aren't but actual ability, hard to say. The line was just so horrendous last year. No one would have been awesome or even good.

Sub Cutler with Alphonso Smith. He was actually right on Cutler.

Rock Chalk
07-14-2011, 05:31 PM
Sub Cutler with Alphonso Smith. He was actually right on Cutler.

I said that.

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 05:38 PM
I said that.

I know that's why I gave you a substitution.

Rock Chalk
07-14-2011, 05:40 PM
I know that's why I gave you a substitution.

Well whatever, Mayock sucks but a lot of people here blow the guy hard.

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 05:48 PM
Well whatever, Mayock sucks but a lot of people here blow the guy hard.

He can only back so many Smiths and McCoys before it starts to bite him.

s0phr0syne
07-14-2011, 06:11 PM
Actually Alphonso played pretty well after going to Detroit last year...8 PD's and 5 INTs in 12 games.

Rock Chalk
07-14-2011, 06:13 PM
Actually Alphonso played pretty well after going to Detroit last year...8 PD's and 5 INTs in 12 games.

God we suck at everything.

cutthemdown
07-14-2011, 06:28 PM
Actually Alphonso played pretty well after going to Detroit last year...8 PD's and 5 INTs in 12 games.

The game I watched he was left lurching all over the field getting smoked. Sometimes def back stats can be misleading. Really you have to watch the games to know. But I can go along with he played ok.

Gcver2ver3
07-14-2011, 06:32 PM
hey, if you like Goldar, you'll love Spectreman and Inframan. Good, cheesy Japanese retro-heroes rule.

I always think of these super heroes when I hear Mr. Roboto by Styx. ROFL!

oh yeah, no doubt....

i watched spectreman daily...infra man is a little fuzzy...

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kYKZ_uJ6wbA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

funny looking at it now, but back then nothing beat it...

s0phr0syne
07-14-2011, 06:41 PM
The game I watched he was left lurching all over the field getting smoked. Sometimes def back stats can be misleading. Really you have to watch the games to know. But I can go along with he played ok.


Yeah, the one game I got to seem him play was on Thanksgiving against the Pats and he got owned the whole time. But young DBs have bad games, and the plays he made when he was on were remarkable.

DrFate
07-14-2011, 07:15 PM
My point is that he has had productive NFL seasons. Not fantastic but he has proved he is at least capable of contributing to an NFL team. Bust's aren't guys that aren't even doing that. People tend to get caught up with the draft slot too much.

Tony Mandarich played 9 years in the NFL and he's typically considered a top 5 bust. He even started 47 games.

It's all about return on investment. Moreno was a top 15 pick and has been a very medicore player. Sure, he contributes. Undrafted guys are expected to contribute. Top 15 picks are expected to excel.

DarkHorse30
07-14-2011, 07:24 PM
4.3 average w/ 5 rushing TDs, and 3 receiving TDs, even though he missed 3 games.

Is there anybody here who can honestly say that our O-line wasn't a total crapshoot for the year(s) that McDaniels was here? I guess you can argue that Moreno didn't have the "speed" to hit the hole......but when he's being met in the backfield about when he "gets" the ball, can you even tell WHAT he's capable of?

I believe ALL of our offense stats need to be forgotten for the last 2 years. I don't think Lloyd is as good as his stats, and I don't think Moreno is bad.....even though there isn't any stats to back up the arguement that he's a bust. 4.3 and 8 TDs on a bad team with a crap o-line starting 2 rooks isn't a story.

Why more Moreno threads? Because Paige has to write a column so he pulls another one out of his ass? Please......

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 07:30 PM
Is there anybody here who can honestly say that our O-line wasn't a total crapshoot for the year(s) that McDaniels was here? I guess you can argue that Moreno didn't have the "speed" to hit the hole......but when he's being met in the backfield about when he "gets" the ball, can you even tell WHAT he's capable of?

Absolutely. He's capable of that KC game.

The issue is whether or not he can deliver even half that production on a consistent basis.

DBroncos4life
07-14-2011, 07:34 PM
That's where he's played his whole career, bro (since Rucker retired).

I also have high hopes for Ayers in a 4-3. Regardless of if he warrants those hopes or not, another end is practically a necessity with questions at both end spots:

1. Can Ayers step up?
2. Can Elvis return to form from injury?

And even if both are yes's... Johnson has another 25 lbs on Elvis to contribute on rushing downs and a much better finisher than Ayers (who hopefully will rush from the inside on passing downs anyway) on passing downs.

Depth chart has him on the right side for last year. That would be after Peppers and also his best season.

Is Jason Hunter still under contract? He had a good season with the Lions the year before and a pretty good season with us last year.

cmhargrove
07-14-2011, 07:57 PM
Well whatever, Mayock sucks but a lot of people here blow the guy hard.

Talent evaluation is a difficult thing, especially when you are grading them based on what they will do "in the NFL," and not even for a specific coaching staff.

I think Mayock is as good as they come, but evaluating talent will always be a game of "potential" and not "guarantee." I don't know that anyone in the mainstream media does as good of a job as Mayock. The talent evaluators that are better are probably working for NFL franchises (and some of those don't do as well as Mayock).

Just sayin'

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 08:13 PM
Depth chart has him on the right side for last year. That would be after Peppers and also his best season.

Is Jason Hunter still under contract? He had a good season with the Lions the year before and a pretty good season with us last year.

...what depth chart?

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JYDnHgFKigc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

#96 (Tyler Brayton) is on the right (closer to camera)

Idk about Hunter. Certainly would bring value as a rotational pass rusher for sure.

DBroncos4life
07-14-2011, 08:19 PM
...what depth chart?

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JYDnHgFKigc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

#96 (Tyler Brayton) is on the right (closer to camera)

Idk about Hunter. Certainly would bring value as a rotational pass rusher for sure.

ESPN has him listed as right side DE.

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 08:21 PM
ESPN has him listed as right side DE.

Those fools are no match for pro football reference and video proof!

broncosteven
07-14-2011, 08:23 PM
4.3 average w/ 5 rushing TDs, and 3 receiving TDs, even though he missed 3 games.

Is there anybody here who can honestly say that our O-line wasn't a total crapshoot for the year(s) that McDaniels was here? I guess you can argue that Moreno didn't have the "speed" to hit the hole......but when he's being met in the backfield about when he "gets" the ball, can you even tell WHAT he's capable of?

I believe ALL of our offense stats need to be forgotten for the last 2 years. I don't think Lloyd is as good as his stats, and I don't think Moreno is bad.....even though there isn't any stats to back up the arguement that he's a bust. 4.3 and 8 TDs on a bad team with a crap o-line starting 2 rooks isn't a story.

Why more Moreno threads? Because Paige has to write a column so he pulls another one out of his ass? Please......

The 2 KFC games skewed his stats, KFC admitted to giving us the run in those games as they were trying to stop us from Chucking it Deep to Lloyd.

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 08:27 PM
The 2 KFC games skewed his stats, KFC admitted to giving us the run in those games as they were trying to stop us from Chucking it Deep to Lloyd.

And we would've taken the run to a win if McDaniels hadn't decided "We have to pass at some point".

Jesus that quote still blows my mind.

DBroncos4life
07-14-2011, 08:29 PM
Those fools are no match for pro football reference and video proof!

NFL.com has it off so I can't use them lol.

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 08:31 PM
NFL.com has it off so I can't use them lol.

You could look at the vid. Just sayin.

CEH
07-14-2011, 08:36 PM
Official game books have Johnson listed as starting LDE

DBroncos4life
07-14-2011, 08:39 PM
You could look at the vid. Just sayin.

I did, I was just going off of what he was listed at. I think we go after him now.

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 08:43 PM
Official game books have Johnson listed as starting LDE

And have been since 2008. He got his first taste of significant playing time after Rucker retired and playing opposite Peppers in rotational duty.

schaaf
07-14-2011, 08:47 PM
just a Question.... Would you take a straight up trade for CJ Spiller right now? Is he even more of a bust than Knowshon???

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 08:50 PM
just a Question.... Would you take a straight up trade for CJ Spiller right now? Is he even more of a bust than Knowshon???

Hmmm... good one... Spiller's too tiny, but he does the speed. I'd go with wash, personally.

tsiguy96
07-14-2011, 08:51 PM
Hmmm... good one... Spiller's too tiny, but he does the speed. I'd go with wash, personally.

what about jahvid or beanie?

better question, given recent history with running backs like these guys, why would anyone want a 1st round RB?

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 09:01 PM
what about jahvid or beanie?

better question, given recent history with running backs like these guys, why would anyone want a 1st round RB?

I wouldn't.

Especially not with glaring defensive deficiencies covering the field.

Rock Chalk
07-14-2011, 09:08 PM
Talent evaluation is a difficult thing, especially when you are grading them based on what they will do "in the NFL," and not even for a specific coaching staff.

I think Mayock is as good as they come, but evaluating talent will always be a game of "potential" and not "guarantee." I don't know that anyone in the mainstream media does as good of a job as Mayock. The talent evaluators that are better are probably working for NFL franchises (and some of those don't do as well as Mayock).

Just sayin'

Agreed. I disagree Mayock is as good as they come, he seems about on par with every other douche bag talking head out there. Clueless.

But those douches are on par with the NFL scouts and GMs.

Its a crapshoot for most teams most of the time. Even Ozzie in Baltimore has had his share of "WTFs"? but all yo uhear about is how such and such was a failure here in drafting. McD, Xanders, Sundquist, even Goodmans weren't all that spectacular. Clady is the best of the bunch they got with Goodman. Harris - injury waiting to happen, Cutler & Marshall - mental midgets and nothing on the defensive side of the ball.

Coaching has a lot to do with it to as does conditioning. Greek has to go, coaching had to go with Shanahan and I believe McDaniels may be a good coach but was given too much too early and this is not a town where you get a "training period".

Point is, its idiotic to lok back and say "wow they sucked" when even the best (according to the Mane folk) draft gurus whiffed on the same dude.

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 09:15 PM
Agreed. I disagree Mayock is as good as they come, he seems about on par with every other douche bag talking head out there. Clueless.

But those douches are on par with the NFL scouts and GMs.

Its a crapshoot for most teams most of the time. Even Ozzie in Baltimore has had his share of "WTFs"? but all yo uhear about is how such and such was a failure here in drafting. McD, Xanders, Sundquist, even Goodmans weren't all that spectacular. Clady is the best of the bunch they got with Goodman. Harris - injury waiting to happen, Cutler & Marshall - mental midgets and nothing on the defensive side of the ball.

Coaching has a lot to do with it to as does conditioning. Greek has to go, coaching had to go with Shanahan and I believe McDaniels may be a good coach but was given too much too early and this is not a town where you get a "training period".

Point is, its idiotic to lok back and say "wow they sucked" when even the best (according to the Mane folk) draft gurus whiffed on the same dude.

Obviously you missed my OM Mock Draft performance.

Chris
07-14-2011, 09:22 PM
Obviously you missed my OM Mock Draft performance.

http://www.obvionline.com/images/page_elements/logo_home.gif

The Moops
07-14-2011, 09:29 PM
Moreno was the top-rated back in the draft ... by most draft experts.

I think he can still be good, but in a Reggie Bush-type way. He needs a Pierre Thomas or, comparing the Giants. He needs a Brandon Jacobs-type to bash up the middle.

KipCorrington25
07-14-2011, 09:33 PM
My point is that he has had productive NFL seasons. Not fantastic but he has proved he is at least capable of contributing to an NFL team. Bust's aren't guys that aren't even doing that. People tend to get caught up with the draft slot too much.

You don't draft contributors 12th overall. The guy is a bust, slow, fumbles, injury prone, lazy, out of shape, questionable attitude...

OABB
07-14-2011, 09:46 PM
You don't draft contributors 12th overall. The guy is a bust, slow, fumbles, injury prone, lazy, out of shape, questionable attitude...

And another example of what Im talking about....

s0phr0syne
07-14-2011, 10:32 PM
Questionable attitude? Not liked in the locker room?

These are just additions made by Woody, and like usual they're founded on horse****. He made up the stuff about Orton and was proven to be factually wrong not even a month ago, but as soon as he decides to throw another player under the bus with no real basis, the people who were already thinking it are ready to lap it up.

SoCalBronco
07-14-2011, 10:34 PM
You've got alot to prove this year, ballerina.

TheReverend
07-14-2011, 10:36 PM
Questionable attitude? Not liked in the locker room?

These are just additions made by Woody, and like usual they're founded on horse****. He made up the stuff about Orton and was proven to be factually wrong not even a month ago, but as soon as he decides to throw another player under the bus with no real basis, the people who were already thinking it are ready to lap it up.

Yeah, I read that fatman article, but "factually" wrong is pushing it...

vancejohnson82
07-14-2011, 11:57 PM
Hmmm... good one... Spiller's too tiny, but he does the speed. I'd go with wash, personally.

this is ridiculous....thats a wash?

gunns
07-15-2011, 12:01 AM
If Moreno was drafted in the 2nd round would he still be considered a bust?

He would be considered Tatum Bell. A bust

vancejohnson82
07-15-2011, 12:27 AM
You don't draft contributors 12th overall. The guy is a bust, slow, fumbles, injury prone, lazy, out of shape, questionable attitude...

out of shape? or injury prone?

Taco John
07-15-2011, 12:50 AM
He would be considered Tatum Bell. A bust

ayup...

cutthemdown
07-15-2011, 01:41 AM
I think this whole thread a huge reach for us to try our best to argue football. My heart isn't in it. Moreno not bad enough to say he shouldn't get a fair shot this yr, not good enough to say we shouldn't bring in Deangello Hall or some other journeyman runner. I'm just happy football on the way and we can argue about Tim ****in Tebow. The greatest QB in the history of college football.

Beantown Bronco
07-15-2011, 07:27 AM
Moreno not bad enough to say he shouldn't get a fair shot this yr, not good enough to say we shouldn't bring in Deangello Hall or some other journeyman runner.

Talk about a freudian slip.

Beantown Bronco
07-15-2011, 07:33 AM
Too many people ride Moreno's nuts sticking he's an awesome back.

Ummmmm, what?!? Name one.

Mediator12
07-15-2011, 07:47 AM
Obviously you missed my OM Mock Draft performance.

One year wonder, maybe ;D Some guys might be as good as you think. However, if you want to look at the last five drafts or so and players that have actually played a down in the NFL, well my track record is pretty good !Booya!

Mediator12
07-15-2011, 08:01 AM
Moreno is not a top Back by any means, and include his high draft selection and lost opportunity cost and people would love to hate on him around here. I do not think it is a fair assesment of his talent level at all. DEN was 30th in ADJ OL yards last year, which means no matter who was running the ball they were getting a full half yard less per Running back carry than the league average due to the OL blocking poorly.

However, that does not include him playing poorly either in certain situations or having opportunities to make plays and no making them. Personally, I think he was a terribly wasted pick in a really poor 1st round year. Not a lot of studs have come from that round, remember that.

Overall, He needs to have a better year in a solid run scheme. All the rest is history.

TheReverend
07-15-2011, 08:41 AM
Moreno is not a top Back by any means, and include his high draft selection and lost opportunity cost and people would love to hate on him around here. I do not think it is a fair assesment of his talent level at all. DEN was 30th in ADJ OL yards last year, which means no matter who was running the ball they were getting a full half yard less per Running back carry than the league average due to the OL blocking poorly.

However, that does not include him playing poorly either in certain situations or having opportunities to make plays and no making them. Personally, I think he was a terribly wasted pick in a really poor 1st round year. Not a lot of studs have come from that round, remember that.

Overall, He needs to have a better year in a solid run scheme. All the rest is history.

...defensively that first round was pretty stacked. Especially after the Knowshon selection. Clay, Cushing, Jenkins, Orakpo, Jerry.

WolfpackGuy
07-15-2011, 09:27 AM
For a fanbase used to seeing guys pulled from the stands going over 1000 yards, he has been a disappointment.

He does a nice "Look at me, we're trailing by 31!" dance though.

Tombstone RJ
07-15-2011, 09:41 AM
Let Fox decide if he's a "bust" or not. I'm pretty sure that Moreno will be given every opportunity to succeed by the new coaching staff. If Moreno can't help the team then Fox will find someone else to carry the rock.

I'm not putting any credence into Paige's article. There's still too much flux going on in Dove Valley and stories like this just add to the speculation...

bronco militia
07-15-2011, 10:13 AM
For a fanbase used to seeing guys pulled from the stands going over 1000 yards, he has been a disappointment.

He does a nice "Look at me, we're trailing by 31!" dance though.

:thanku::rofl:

Cito Pelon
07-15-2011, 10:26 AM
I think people forget the Chargers wanted to draft Moreno. That's something that has to be considered in the equation. SD was looking to replace LT, and I think they had Moreno targeted if he fell to them. Would you guys want Moreno playing for the Chargers?

yerner
07-15-2011, 10:26 AM
You don't draft contributors 12th overall. The guy is a bust, slow, fumbles, injury prone, lazy, out of shape, questionable attitude...

I disagree. You do draft 'contributors,' for lack of a better term, in any round. And you hope to hit a homerun with them occasionally. Moreno isn't Barry Sanders, but he isn't Blair Thomas either.

Rabb
07-15-2011, 10:32 AM
I think people forget the Chargers wanted to draft Moreno. That's something that has to be considered in the equation. SD was looking to replace LT, and I think they had Moreno targeted if he fell to them. Would you guys want Moreno playing for the Chargers?

I really, really hope we don't draft to keep someone from another team versus drafting someone we need

I just refuse to believe this (this is not anything against what you are saying, I have heard that rumor floated around many times now) although, with McD who the hell knows

CEH
07-15-2011, 10:41 AM
I really, really hope we don't draft to keep someone from another team versus drafting someone we need

I just refuse to believe this (this is not anything against what you are saying, I have heard that rumor floated around many times now) although, with McD who the hell knows

Since we had 2 1st the thinking was Moreno might not be there at 17 whereas ayers would I agree with the sentiment but having 2 first slotting players has to be taken into the equation

Bronco Yoda
07-15-2011, 10:49 AM
I think people forget the Chargers wanted to draft Moreno. That's something that has to be considered in the equation. SD was looking to replace LT, and I think they had Moreno targeted if he fell to them. Would you guys want Moreno playing for the Chargers?

That would be tough watching him breaking all those long ones for the dolts. errrrrrrrrrrr wait..... what long runs?

DarkHorse30
07-15-2011, 10:52 AM
Let Fox decide if he's a "bust" or not. I'm pretty sure that Moreno will be given every opportunity to succeed by the new coaching staff. If Moreno can't help the team then Fox will find someone else to carry the rock.

I'm not putting any credence into Paige's article. There's still too much flux going on in Dove Valley and stories like this just add to the speculation...

Bingo. Denver sucked mightily when Belichek McDaniel'd us. It's easy to point the finger at Moreno, when we used to win games by running the ball....even after Davis....but Moreno was UNCOACHED. Let Fox figure this one out. I'm not defending Moreno, I'm just calling a piece of crap TEAM, a piece of crap TEAM

WolfpackGuy
07-15-2011, 11:21 AM
I think people forget the Chargers wanted to draft Moreno. That's something that has to be considered in the equation. SD was looking to replace LT, and I think they had Moreno targeted if he fell to them. Would you guys want Moreno playing for the Chargers?

That's stuff you do with waiver wire transactions a la SD picking up Michael Bennett in 2008 when Broncos RB's were falling off left and right.

That pick screamed of luxury when the Broncos should've been beefing up the defense, and not to mention they should've traded down immediately once Raji went at 9.

NFLBRONCO
07-15-2011, 11:39 AM
You weren't prepared for the draft and you picked a bust well duh.

kamakazi_kal
07-15-2011, 11:49 AM
McD wasn't what about 80% thought including you TSI.

gunns
07-15-2011, 01:17 PM
I think people forget the Chargers wanted to draft Moreno. That's something that has to be considered in the equation. SD was looking to replace LT, and I think they had Moreno targeted if he fell to them. Would you guys want Moreno playing for the Chargers?

From what I've seen, I would love for him to play for the Chargers.

Dr. Broncenstein
07-15-2011, 01:37 PM
I think people forget the Chargers wanted to draft Moreno. That's something that has to be considered in the equation. SD was looking to replace LT, and I think they had Moreno targeted if he fell to them. Would you guys want Moreno playing for the Chargers?

Yes. Yes I would like that. How about we trade for Sproles straight up?

Taco John
07-15-2011, 01:40 PM
I think people forget the Chargers wanted to draft Moreno. That's something that has to be considered in the equation. SD was looking to replace LT, and I think they had Moreno targeted if he fell to them. Would you guys want Moreno playing for the Chargers?

Absolutely. I would also be ok with Tatum Bell playing for the Chargers.

OABB
07-15-2011, 01:56 PM
I guess moreno doesnt fumble enough to be beloved.

Taco John
07-15-2011, 02:18 PM
I guess moreno doesnt fumble enough to be beloved.

Oh, I don't know about that...
Knowshon Moreno: 7 fumbles in two years.
Tatum Bell: 10 fumbles in 5 years.

DBroncos4life
07-15-2011, 02:23 PM
Is a 1000 yards too much to ask for? I know I want the world with 63 yards per damn game.

rbackfactory80
07-15-2011, 03:13 PM
Ayers is gonna deliver, Moreno is done.

OABB
07-15-2011, 09:10 PM
[QUOTE=Taco John;3218477]Oh, I don't know about that...
Knowshon Moreno: 7 fumbles in two years.
Tatum Bell: 10 fumbles in 5 year




Someones missing from there.

2KBack
07-15-2011, 09:23 PM
[QUOTE=Taco John;3218477]Oh, I don't know about that...
Knowshon Moreno: 7 fumbles in two years.
Tatum Bell: 10 fumbles in 5 year




Someones missing from there.

As is the full picture...

Moreno - 22 Starts, 429 carries 7 fumbles

Bell - 22 Starts, 569 carries 10 fumbles

Hillis :wiggle: - 22 Starts, 351 carries 9 fumbles

OABB
07-15-2011, 09:29 PM
[QUOTE=OABB;3218920]

As is the full picture...

Moreno - 22 Starts, 429 carries 7 fumbles

Bell - 22 Starts, 569 carries 10 fumbles

Hillis :wiggle: - 22 Starts, 351 carries 9 fumbles

Ouch.

cutthemdown
07-16-2011, 12:36 AM
Talk about a freudian slip.

ooops yes it was lol. Just cursed that move for sure.

TomServo
07-16-2011, 01:51 AM
my public stated philosophy has always been-espesicially in the shanahan era was-spending a first round pick on a rb was a waste. a damn waste.
unless its earl freakin campbell rb's are a dime a dozen. i dont give a rats butt how many other teams wanted to make the mistake of drafting KM too. he wasnt that special to be drafted that high or make that kind of money.
im also-public record-thought he would be "great". great for the team, i should have made that caveat but owell. i was also one of his early detractors. his "look at me hand slap dance" when he couldnt even break 100 yds in a game. his later "look at me!! dance" when we we got our butts kicked in Historic fashion by the awul raiders. im pretty sure he'll never be as special as he he thinks he is.

errand
07-16-2011, 11:39 AM
So apparently, Ayers was not what McD thought either. Munchkin boy set a new low for draft prep, I'd say.

again people thinking that the draft is an exact science.....with equal levels of talent every year.

mike sucked at drafting too...few coaches do well every year

HAT
07-16-2011, 11:43 AM
Moreno will be a top 5 back this year......Clip & save.

TheReverend
07-16-2011, 11:49 AM
Moreno will be a top 5 back this year......Clip & save.

Is that as guaranteed as Orton in the pro bowl last year?

HAT
07-16-2011, 11:55 AM
Is that as guaranteed as Orton in the pro bowl last year?

Barring injury...Of course. ^5

TomServo
07-17-2011, 02:01 AM
Moreno will be a top 5 back this year......Clip & save.
i went on record. moreno-great. i was wrong. bad attitude worse talent. the kid has NO passing gear. a young stud in his first two years in the league has got chased down EVERY single time.
i tried to like the kid. after the raider blowout i cant stand the punk.

s0phr0syne
07-17-2011, 06:26 AM
i went on record. moreno-great. i was wrong. bad attitude worse talent. the kid has NO passing gear. a young stud in his first two years in the league has got chased down EVERY single time.
i tried to like the kid. after the raider blowout i cant stand the punk.



So he's slowshon, I don't think you'll find much disagreement about that anywhere.


Where is this "bad attitude" stuff coming from? The dance? Woody? Are there any other reports of that? Just whispers on the light rail?

strafen
07-17-2011, 07:11 AM
i went on record. moreno-great. i was wrong. bad attitude worse talent. the kid has NO passing gear. a young stud in his first two years in the league has got chased down EVERY single time.
i tried to like the kid. after the raider blowout i cant stand the punk."Moreno will be a top 5 back this year......Clip & save." Who said that?
Moreno is a top 5 bust of his class.
The guy is a a bust. As soon as football resumes operations, the Broncos will go after D'angelo Williams. Clip and save...

Play2win
07-17-2011, 08:29 AM
So he's slowshon, I don't think you'll find much disagreement about that anywhere.


Where is this "bad attitude" stuff coming from? The dance? Woody? Are there any other reports of that? Just whispers on the light rail?

That he runs faster and with more burst and sense of urgency to the sideline after a score in order to celebrate, than he ever does actually playing football, especially when it comes to hitting the hole.

2KBack
07-17-2011, 08:31 AM
That he runs faster and with more burst and sense of urgency to the sideline after a score in order to celebrate, than he ever does actually playing football, especially when it comes to hitting the hole.

hole?

Captain 'Dre
07-17-2011, 09:12 AM
From what I've seen, I would love for him to play for the Chargers.

Actually, he's be sitting on the bench for the Chargers, but I see your point.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-17-2011, 09:27 AM
He's also slow, so there's that.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-17-2011, 09:36 AM
Moreno will be a top 5 back this year......Clip & save.

Are you brain dead?

With Tebow back there teams are going to be stuffing the box against Denver all year long.

Moreno will be lucky to sniff 4 YPC.

OABB
07-17-2011, 09:53 AM
Are you brain dead?

With Tebow back there teams are going to be stuffing the box against Denver all year long.

Moreno will be lucky to sniff 4 YPC.

You better hope so. Moreno tore the chiefs a new asshole last year.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-17-2011, 09:56 AM
Score another one for Bob, guys.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-17-2011, 09:56 AM
It's currently The Golden Age Of Bob, if you hadn't noticed.

Dr. Broncenstein
07-17-2011, 09:59 AM
You better hope so. Moreno tore the chiefs a new a-hole last year.

Right up to the point where eventually you have to pass.

broncosteven
07-17-2011, 01:59 PM
It's currently The Golden Age Of Bob, if you hadn't noticed.

Too bad for you KFC's golden age was over 40 years ago.

Agamemnon
07-17-2011, 09:21 PM
Are you brain dead?

With Tebow back there teams are going to be stuffing the box against Denver all year long.

Moreno will be lucky to sniff 4 YPC.

Oh please let it be so...I'd love to see Tebow throwing to Lloyd in one on one situations with no safety help. Oh I would indeed.

On topic, I think Moreno gets a lot of flak he doesn't really deserve. Truth is our o-line was dreadful last year and pretty sub-par the year before. I remember so many times where Moreno somehow made one or two yards on plays where a guy was in his face two yards behind the line of scrimmage. He hasn't been great, but he's been working with pretty much nothing since he got here. Injuries and lack of big play potential certainly hurt his overall value, but I do think he's better than all but a handful of players on our current roster.

Drek
07-18-2011, 07:14 AM
People really lack perspective on Moreno vis a vie McDaniels offense.

In 2004 Corey Dillon ran for 1635 yards his first year with the Patriots, playing in 15 games. Then in 2005, when McDaniels was the un-official OC that production suddenly dropped to 733 yards in 12 starts. He went from a 4.7 YPC to a 3.5 YPC. He dropped from 23 attempts a game to 17. This with offensive personnel largely still in place from winning the Super Bowl the year before.

Then they draft Laurence Maroney, a RB that Shanahan and Turner went on record as being one of our own first round targets if the trade up for Cutler hadn't happened, and his best season under McDaniels, behind an OL full of veteran pro-bowlers, was 835 yards and a 4.5 YPC with almost no receiving production.

McDaniels comes to Denver and drafts Moreno, puts him behind a ramshackle OL. Moreno as a rookie split duty back who only starts 9 of the 16 games that season out produces every RB to play for McDaniels, rushing and receiving. Last season he missed 3 games due to injury, left a couple others early, and still gave better per game production than he did as a rookie with fewer touches.

Moreno is far from the perfect back, but if he's spent this extended off-season dedicated to getting healthy and improving his conditioning he's got a lot of potential freed from the RB killing offensive system that McDaniels employs.

Rabb
07-18-2011, 07:20 AM
Laurence Maroney

too soon