PDA

View Full Version : Why it’s called “The Mile High City”


Pony Boy
07-05-2011, 01:45 PM
There are now more medical marijuana dispensaries in Denver than there are Starbucks


DENVER — The Mile High City is getting higher all the time.

There are now more medical marijuana dispensaries in Denver than there are Starbucks. Glossy guidebooks list nearly 300 locations where Colorado’s 125,000 residents who have been prescribed medical marijuana can get their “medicine.” Many offer a free joint to new customers, allowing them to sample exotic strains like Jah Kush, Golden Goat and Romulan Cotton Candy.

Local smokers even have a professional critic to help them navigate the gauntlet of bongs, pipes and vaporizers, or make that essential choice between Super Silver Haze and Purple Passion.

The critic’s pen name is William Breathes; he keeps his real identity secret to ensure he gets the same treatment as any other patient.

His weekly weed purchase is paid for by the Denver Westword, the popular alternative weekly that hired Breathes after its editors realized they were serving one of the most stoned readerships in America.

“It’s a fun new writing area,” Westword editor Patricia Calhoun told The Daily, “and if your publication prides itself on doing strong cultural coverage of art, theater and food, then why not do pot, too?”

Unlike his fellow smokers, Breathes does not follow his puffs with a Pauly Shore marathon or prolonged mediation over the contents of his pantry.

Instead, he powers up his desktop and crafts a detailed review of both the grass and the medical marijuana dispensary that sold it to him. A recent review, for example, reads:

The Platinum Purps had an orange-rind tartness to it, which would have gone great with the sticky-sweet smell of Tangerine Haze. There was also a solid Triple-D, very floral Flo, and some well done Trainwreck renamed Charlie Sheen, appropriately enough. Other more unique strains out of Scott’s coco mix garden, including Scott’s Blue, the Tange and the Face Wreck Haze, smelled so good I wanted to make a potpourri bowl out of them for my office.

An experienced journalist who used to cover local politics, and so passionate about weed culture that he got a friend at the phone company to give him a number that ends in “420,” Breathes was the ideal fit for this new niche.

With 15 other states and Washington, D.C., now allowing some use of medical marijuana, Breathes is also tackles the ongoing political battles around the drug as medicine.

When, earlier this year, the Colorado Legislature was considering a bill to crack down on driving under the influence by pot smokers, Breathes had a blood analysis done to show that he was three times over the proposed legal limit, even after not smoking all day and being pronounced sober by a doctor.

The bill did not pass.

“Yes, it’s a great gig,” he explained. “But, and this is something only other journalists really get, it’s still a job. Yeah, I smoke weed, but I still have to write, and I have to meet deadlines, and I still have editors ... If I don’t take it seriously, I’ll be fired.”

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/07/05/070511-news-pot-critic-1-2/

Dr. Broncenstein
07-05-2011, 02:01 PM
Alcohol, tobacco (especially cigarettes), and most legal prescription medication (especially opiates and benzodiazepines) are vastly more dangerous than marijuana. Not even remotely comparable in terms of which is actually more harmful. But too many people justify their entire career based upon the illegality of marijuana, and thus the way things are. Personally, I think marijuana is juvenile and carries all sorts of social baggage... but from a physiological standpoint nobody has ever died from a marijuana overdose. Over 600 people died last year in Oklahoma alone from overdosing perfectly legal opiates and benzodiazepines... although they almost universally obtained them through illegal and diverted means.

That One Guy
07-05-2011, 02:13 PM
Alcohol, tobacco (especially cigarettes), and most legal prescription medication (especially opiates and benzodiazepines) are vastly more dangerous than marijuana. Not even remotely comparable in terms of which is actually more harmful. But too many people justify their entire career based upon the illegality of marijuana, and thus the way things are. Personally, I think marijuana is juvenile and carries all sorts of social baggage... but from a physiological standpoint nobody has ever died from a marijuana overdose. Over 600 people died last year in Oklahoma alone from overdosing perfectly legal opiates and benzodiazepines... although they almost universally obtained them through illegal and diverted means.

My absolutely only issue with marijuana is that if completely legalized, irresponsible people couldn't control who got a contact high. I can drink a beer at the table while my kid drinks apple juice and everything is fine. Someone decides to do that with weed and everyone at the table gets lit up.

And I can't think of the term but is there no legitimacy to the myth that you'll be permanently impacted from long term usage? People I know who have drunk all their lives can seem perfectly fine when they aren't drinking. I've always heard smokers basically bake their brains.

Mr.Meanie
07-05-2011, 02:55 PM
My absolutely only issue with marijuana is that if completely legalized, irresponsible people couldn't control who got a contact high. I can drink a beer at the table while my kid drinks apple juice and everything is fine. Someone decides to do that with weed and everyone at the table gets lit up.

And I can't think of the term but is there no legitimacy to the myth that you'll be permanently impacted from long term usage? People I know who have drunk all their lives can seem perfectly fine when they aren't drinking. I've always heard smokers basically bake their brains.

I imagine there would be "no smoking mj" bans is just about every public place if there were suddenly a nationwide legalization of it. There are many places where you can't bring your own beer and start drinking, and most public places now ban smoking cigarettes.

The major problem is there is no politician out there with big enough balls to try to attempt this. They would be afraid of being instantly labeled the "druggie" candidate, and they care more about winning elections than fixing the weed problem.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-05-2011, 03:01 PM
I imagine there would be "no smoking mj" bans is just about every public place if there were suddenly a nationwide legalization of it. There are many places where you can't bring your own beer and start drinking, and most public places now ban smoking cigarettes.

The major problem is there is no politician out there with big enough balls to try to attempt this. They would be afraid of being instantly labeled the "druggie" candidate, and they care more about winning elections than fixing the weed problem.

I think its one of those things that will probably happen slowly overtime. I really dont see why MJ is any worse than alcohol...at all. It doesn't make you violent, id always rather be around someone who is high than drunk (i have a few functionalpothead friends). I dunno, tax the **** outof it, make some money

rugbythug
07-05-2011, 03:44 PM
I have a lot of renters with Medical Marijuana Licenses. Every one is a waste of skin. All are also on Gov't Subsidies Welfare, taniff, housing Etc.. And all have nothing that when you look at them screams this person needs pain meds.

Meck77
07-05-2011, 04:24 PM
You need better quality rentals thug.

Boobs McGee
07-05-2011, 04:41 PM
I have a lot of renters with Medical Marijuana Licenses. Every one is a waste of skin. All are also on Gov't Subsidies Welfare, taniff, housing Etc.. And all have nothing that when you look at them screams this person needs pain meds.

This is one of the biggest hurdles in terms of legalization. The public perception of users. I'm not saying you're wrong, but unfortunately the people who you have renting from you aren't an accurate depiction of the vast majority. For all of your renters, I could show you business owners, college grads, solid working class folks, and functioning members of society that also have their cards. It's sad though, because if you ONLY see people like the ones who rent from you, then your perception will always be biased. Also, I DO know folks just like the ones you describe, but they're in the minority. Like, 3 of the 50 + people I know with cards.

broncosteven
07-05-2011, 04:54 PM
Alcohol, tobacco (especially cigarettes), and most legal prescription medication (especially opiates and benzodiazepines) are vastly more dangerous than marijuana. Not even remotely comparable in terms of which is actually more harmful. But too many people justify their entire career based upon the illegality of marijuana, and thus the way things are. Personally, I think marijuana is juvenile and carries all sorts of social baggage... but from a physiological standpoint nobody has ever died from a marijuana overdose. Over 600 people died last year in Oklahoma alone from overdosing perfectly legal opiates and benzodiazepines... although they almost universally obtained them through illegal and diverted means.

Likely via the same network of people that provide the weed.

The real sad thing is that those of us with actual proven chronic pain up until a few years ago went under medicated and even today are stigmatized for our legal use (as prescribed) of our pain meds by pharmacists and medical support personnel.

houghtam
07-05-2011, 07:59 PM
This is one of the biggest hurdles in terms of legalization. The public perception of users. I'm not saying you're wrong, but unfortunately the people who you have renting from you aren't an accurate depiction of the vast majority. For all of your renters, I could show you business owners, college grads, solid working class folks, and functioning members of society that also have their cards. It's sad though, because if you ONLY see people like the ones who rent from you, then your perception will always be biased. Also, I DO know folks just like the ones you describe, but they're in the minority. Like, 3 of the 50 + people I know with cards.

This. The only potheads I've ever met who were not fully functional in their every day lives were the dealers. And why should they be? They make a crapload of money and don't have to pay taxes on it.

I say legalize and tax the holy hell out of it. It would probably still remain at a reasonable price, while the government would reap the benefits.

If a bill came out that legalized marijuana on the condition of making alcohol and tobacco illegal, I'd vote for it purely on the notion that another poster stated...it's less dangerous than both.

Dr. Broncenstein
07-05-2011, 08:30 PM
The people I knew that smoked pot into adulthood basically never grew up. The lifestyle associated with it is such a turn off for me... to the point that I basically gave up on a former best friend. Still, it pales in comparison from a medical complications standpoint to longstanding alcoholism / tobaccoism / chronic opiate abuse. Nobody comes into the hospital dying from their marijuana habit. It's the exact opposite for addicts of the legal drugs.

Mogulseeker
07-05-2011, 08:41 PM
I imagine there would be "no smoking mj" bans is just about every public place if there were suddenly a nationwide legalization of it. There are many places where you can't bring your own beer and start drinking, and most public places now ban smoking cigarettes.

The major problem is there is no politician out there with big enough balls to try to attempt this. They would be afraid of being instantly labeled the "druggie" candidate, and they care more about winning elections than fixing the weed problem.

IDK... I would be around weed, not smoking it, while I was in the military getting drug tested and I passed every test.

OBF1
07-05-2011, 08:42 PM
Medical marijuana are a freekin joke... There is no way in hell that most of the 20-30 year olds with cards need it for any medical issue, just pot heads looking for an angle and "Doctors" handing put perscriptions. 3 guys I work with have them and not 1 of them have a single ailment, they just like smoking pot and prefer getting the good stuff and have worked the system to get their buzz on. Total farce.

Mogulseeker
07-05-2011, 08:42 PM
The people I knew that smoked pot into adulthood basically never grew up. The lifestyle associated with it is such a turn off for me... to the point that I basically gave up on a former best friend. Still, it pales in comparison from a medical complications standpoint to longstanding alcoholism / tobaccoism / chronic opiate abuse. Nobody comes into the hospital dying from their marijuana habit. It's the exact opposite for addicts of the legal drugs.

IDK, I know a pretty successful lawyer who smokes it a lot.

What's the deal with smoking it, too? Couldn't they just make THC in pill form and prescribe it as a legitimate drug for pain, glaucoma, and people with AIDS and going through chemotherapy?

Dr. Broncenstein
07-05-2011, 08:47 PM
IDK, I know a pretty successful lawyer who smokes it a lot.

What's the deal with smoking it, too? Couldn't they just make THC in pill form and prescribe it as a legitimate drug for pain, glaucoma, and people with AIDS and going through chemotherapy?

There is a legal "pill form" called Marinol. I don't know much about it other than it is prescribed for the above mentioned reasons. It's not my territory.

Dukes
07-05-2011, 08:49 PM
I imagine there would be "no smoking mj" bans is just about every public place if there were suddenly a nationwide legalization of it. There are many places where you can't bring your own beer and start drinking, and most public places now ban smoking cigarettes.

The major problem is there is no politician out there with big enough balls to try to attempt this. They would be afraid of being instantly labeled the "druggie" candidate, and they care more about winning elections than fixing the weed problem.

Tom Tancredo is in favor of legalizing it.

houghtam
07-05-2011, 08:50 PM
IDK... I would be around weed, not smoking it, while I was in the military getting drug tested and I passed every test.

Yeeeeeah... I've been around a lot of people while they've smoked. A LOT. Never had a contact buzz, and never heard of anyone who has. Always heard of people who heard of people whose friend's sister got one, but never anyone in real life.

Seems like a crock to me. If you could get a buzz without smoking it, why would so many people smoke it?

Dr. Broncenstein
07-05-2011, 08:58 PM
Prohibition does not work. This has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. But here we are... 80 years later learning the same hard lessons... only with a drug that is infinitely safer than perfectly legal ethanol. Makes sense to me.

houghtam
07-05-2011, 09:03 PM
Prohibition does not work. This has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. But here we are... 80 years later learning the same hard lessons... only with a drug that is infinitely safer than perfectly legal ethanol. Makes sense to me.

Exactly. And prohibition on something that doesn't harm anyone but the user, and to a much less extent than other perfectly legal drugs, no less.

That One Guy
07-05-2011, 09:07 PM
IDK... I would be around weed, not smoking it, while I was in the military getting drug tested and I passed every test.

In my many ventures as a meatgazer, I always heard that it was only a three day window that the tests would pick up.

That One Guy
07-05-2011, 09:08 PM
Yeeeeeah... I've been around a lot of people while they've smoked. A LOT. Never had a contact buzz, and never heard of anyone who has. Always heard of people who heard of people whose friend's sister got one, but never anyone in real life.

Seems like a crock to me. If you could get a buzz without smoking it, why would so many people smoke it?

Wow. I've always stayed away from drugs but if this is true, my whole stance on it changes. I've always accepted the contact high as legit.

gunns
07-05-2011, 09:21 PM
I have a lot of renters with Medical Marijuana Licenses. Every one is a waste of skin. All are also on Gov't Subsidies Welfare, taniff, housing Etc.. And all have nothing that when you look at them screams this person needs pain meds.

That's more about the welfare system than mj. Find a doc to give you an excuse for not working and you can sit around and collect TANF, on housing, and get mj. It isn't the medical mj that makes them a waste of skin, it's the government allowing them to sit on their asses.

Dr. Broncenstein
07-05-2011, 09:30 PM
Tylenol is more dangerous IMO than marijuana. I'm looking at you, BroncoBuff.

Garcia Bronco
07-05-2011, 09:30 PM
A buddy of mine got some called "gilly weed"

lol...

Archer81
07-05-2011, 09:59 PM
A buddy of mine got a doctor to give him an RX for weed for a "bad back" that was chronic...or something. The next day the kid is doing backflips off a roof into a pool.

My area has maybe 20,000 people. Canon City is the largest town in the area. It has 3 weed dispenseries. Two of them are across the street from one another downtown. They also have one in Penrose.

:Broncos:

Mogulseeker
07-05-2011, 10:07 PM
Tylenol is more dangerous IMO than marijuana. I'm looking at you, BroncoBuff.

Isn't Acetaminophen really bad for your heart?

houghtam
07-05-2011, 11:55 PM
A buddy of mine got a doctor to give him an RX for weed for a "bad back" that was chronic...or something. The next day the kid is doing backflips off a roof into a pool.

My area has maybe 20,000 people. Canon City is the largest town in the area. It has 3 weed dispenseries. Two of them are across the street from one another downtown. They also have one in Penrose.

:Broncos:

Great cure for chronic insomnia and anxiety as well.

Or so I've heard.

gunns
07-06-2011, 03:26 AM
Isn't Acetaminophen really bad for your heart?

I thought it was the liver.

alkemical
07-06-2011, 05:26 AM
I gave it up years ago - but I don't really see the big deal. I have a family member going through chemo - it would be nice to be able to make some edibles for them without having to "worry".

broncosteven
07-06-2011, 01:50 PM
Isn't Acetaminophen really bad for your heart?

It is bad for your liver, I don't know the chemistry to tell you why.

They put it in Vicodin and other class III (I think Class II is hard Opiates like Morphine) pain killers so the junkies won't melt it down and inject it into their arms and Dr's won't prescribe for long periods, from what I have been told.

Bronco Vixen
07-06-2011, 02:21 PM
Alcohol, tobacco (especially cigarettes), and most legal prescription medication (especially opiates and benzodiazepines) are vastly more dangerous than marijuana. Not even remotely comparable in terms of which is actually more harmful. But too many people justify their entire career based upon the illegality of marijuana, and thus the way things are. Personally, I think marijuana is juvenile and carries all sorts of social baggage... but from a physiological standpoint nobody has ever died from a marijuana overdose. Over 600 people died last year in Oklahoma alone from overdosing perfectly legal opiates and benzodiazepines... although they almost universally obtained them through illegal and diverted means.

The reason MJ is illegal is 100% political and thus financial when all is said and done. When you look at the facts and the history of the drug it is really silly that this drug is not legal – particularly when tobacco and alcohol are.

1) Dangerous? The good doc is right: the number of people who have overdosed from THC (the psychoactive compound in MJ) = ZERO. There are no cannabinoid receptors in the brainstem – so no possibility of respiratory depression. Thus, even at high doses it’s not lethal. Hell, even caffeine is lethal at high enough doses – although the LD50 is about 100 cups of coffee in a short amount of time – but still… This fact is particularly staggering when compared to our compatriots – tobacco (the nation’s leading killer, incidentally): kills almost a half a million people A YEAR and is extremely harmful in secondhand form – but of course is subsidized by the government; and alcohol-related deaths – typically around 100,000 a year.

Despite having more carcinogens than tobacco, MJ smoke has not been definitively associated with any increase in lung cancer (tobacco smoke confers a 20-fold risk) and recent research has even suggested that THC has anti-tumor and neuroprotective qualities. It is associated with impaired lung functioning but that has more to do with ingesting a burning substance than anything in particular with the drug.

OTC overdoses: 20,000 a year, hospitalizations: 100,000 annually.
Long term and chronic use of MJ has been associated with mild memory impairment but again, when you compare the cognitive consequences of long term chronic alcohol use (i.e., wet brain), it is not even in the ballpark. Alcohol remains one of the worst substances for our brain out there –even compared to meth.

2) Addictiveness? Less addictive than tobacco and caffeine.

3) Legitimate medical uses? Hundreds – and we’ve known this for centuries.

So why did it become illegal? Originally it was an excuse to deport immigrant laborers when the depression hit, as well as an excuse to imprison minorities. This even in the face of a multi-year scientific commission and the full backing of the AMA at the time that found no evidence of addiction, any association with crime, or use by children. Then fast- forward to 1970 after the original legislation prohibiting MJ use was ruled unconstitutional and you have Mr. Nixon who desperately needed a way to quiet/imprison war protestors and again, despite findings from his OWN commission that MJ was not addictive, dangerous, or associated with crime, made it a schedule 1 drug under the controlled substance act.

Why is it STILL illegal? $ pure and simple. 1) DEA budget for MJ prohibition alone: 10 billion a year 2) private prisons: almost 900,000 people arrested a year for MJ-related crime (more than the total number arrested for all violent crimes combined (murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault) – imprisoning people is good business, not to mention the thousands and thousands of jobs from enforcement to the legal system to imprisonment that are supported by the war on drugs and MJ, specifically. 3) Big Pharma – one of if not THE most powerful lobby groups in Washington. Do you really think that pharmaceutical companies want a natural substance legalized that any of us could then grow in our backyards, which has been associated with hundreds of therapeutic uses. Talk about a colossal hit to someone’s multi-billion dollar profits annually.

But other than that - why not keep the devastatingly unsuccessful prohibition efforts going? Particularly when legalization = enormous taxation revenue and regulation. Right now my students repeatedly tell me that it's easier to buy MJ than alcohol or tobacco.

Bronco Vixen
07-06-2011, 02:27 PM
This is one of the biggest hurdles in terms of legalization. The public perception of users. I'm not saying you're wrong, but unfortunately the people who you have renting from you aren't an accurate depiction of the vast majority. For all of your renters, I could show you business owners, college grads, solid working class folks, and functioning members of society that also have their cards. It's sad though, because if you ONLY see people like the ones who rent from you, then your perception will always be biased. Also, I DO know folks just like the ones you describe, but they're in the minority. Like, 3 of the 50 + people I know with cards.

Yes boobs, you are right. Plus, I would venture a guess that the pothead poster children for prohibition have developed said lifestyle secondary to personality characteristics not solely MJ use, but yet, they continue to drive the public perception of users.

broncocalijohn
07-06-2011, 02:29 PM
Medical marijuana are a freekin joke... There is no way in hell that most of the 20-30 year olds with cards need it for any medical issue, just pot heads looking for an angle and "Doctors" handing put perscriptions. 3 guys I work with have them and not 1 of them have a single ailment, they just like smoking pot and prefer getting the good stuff and have worked the system to get their buzz on. Total farce.

Just go to LA or OC Weekly backpages for proof of this. The "doctors" are now part of the legal dealer network. I voted for the law to allow it in California and wish I had not. Non profit Medical Marijuana Facilities my ass.

DenverBrit
07-06-2011, 02:38 PM
Just go to LA or OC Weekly backpages for proof of this. The "doctors" are now part of the legal dealer network. I voted for the law to allow it in California and wish I had not. Non profit Medical Marijuana Facilities my ass.

It's all about profit in CO. And...taxes and license revenue and commercial real estate leases for the dispensaries and indoor growing operations.

Dr. Broncenstein
07-06-2011, 02:39 PM
I don't know how physicians are actually prescribing marijuana and not getting in trouble with the federal government. Physicians have to have both a state issued and federally issued license to prescribe medication, both of which are separate from the license to practice medicine. Marijuana is schedule 1, which means it is not legal to write a prescription for it as far as the federal government is concerned.

Boobs McGee
07-06-2011, 08:39 PM
Yes boobs, you are right. Plus, I would venture a guess that the pothead poster children for prohibition have developed said lifestyle secondary to personality characteristics not solely MJ use, but yet, they continue to drive the public perception of users.

Bingo...AND, this is where the problem TRULY lies, in my opinion. For me, personally, MJ wasn't actually a "gateway" drug in the literal sense. I didn't just wake up one day and decide that the ganja wasn't doing enough, so I thought I go try coke, meth, crack, etc. It's the people you associate yourself with. MJ itself is such a wonderfully docile drug...but unfortunately the circles you can possibly end up running with will ultimately lead to substantially harder drugs. ANOTHER reason I feel like legalization would be beneficial. Instead of people going to sketchball dealers, seedy parts of town, mingling with unsavory people with equally unsavory intentions, etc etc...they could simply go down the street to a legitimate store to find what they need. That really doesn't have TOO much to do with the bolded statement, but from personal experience and countless chats with the less fortunate (similar to what you're describing), that's how it starts.

Wow, tangent over haha.

One quick thing Mrs. Vixen...I did some papers in college regarding this very subject, and there's a strong possibility I'm wrong, but I thought that the whole problem of illegality began with the textile industry. Hemp was being grown (that's a completely different and incredibly interesting subject...hemp is a super crop that is supremely beneficial to anything the paper industry can come up with) in the early beginnings of our country, right up until the 30's. At that point in time, William Randolph Hearst (the newspaper tycoon, HOR rep, and close friend of the government) pushed for the banning of hemp, because of his company's (Dupont) inferior synthetic paper product. Basically, he spread misinformation, and all of a sudden the link between hemp and marijuana became indistinguishable thanks to incredibly biased government studies.

Basically, he made farming hemp illegal so his textile company could monopolize, and in the process, marijuana became illegal as well.

I COULD BE WRONG, as it's been a while ;D

Bronco Vixen
07-06-2011, 09:38 PM
Bingo...AND, this is where the problem TRULY lies, in my opinion. For me, personally, MJ wasn't actually a "gateway" drug in the literal sense. I didn't just wake up one day and decide that the ganja wasn't doing enough, so I thought I go try coke, meth, crack, etc. It's the people you associate yourself with. MJ itself is such a wonderfully docile drug...but unfortunately the circles you can possibly end up running with will ultimately lead to substantially harder drugs. ANOTHER reason I feel like legalization would be beneficial. Instead of people going to sketchball dealers, seedy parts of town, mingling with unsavory people with equally unsavory intentions, etc etc...they could simply go down the street to a legitimate store to find what they need. That really doesn't have TOO much to do with the bolded statement, but from personal experience and countless chats with the less fortunate (similar to what you're describing), that's how it starts.

Wow, tangent over haha.

One quick thing Mrs. Vixen...I did some papers in college regarding this very subject, and there's a strong possibility I'm wrong, but I thought that the whole problem of illegality began with the textile industry. Hemp was being grown (that's a completely different and incredibly interesting subject...hemp is a super crop that is supremely beneficial to anything the paper industry can come up with) in the early beginnings of our country, right up until the 30's. At that point in time, William Randolph Hearst (the newspaper tycoon, HOR rep, and close friend of the government) pushed for the banning of hemp, because of his company's (Dupont) inferior synthetic paper product. Basically, he spread misinformation, and all of a sudden the link between hemp and marijuana became indistinguishable thanks to incredibly biased government studies.

Basically, he made farming hemp illegal so his textile company could monopolize, and in the process, marijuana became illegal as well.

I COULD BE WRONG, as it's been a while ;D

Boobs, you are absolutely correct - and obviously not that stoned during class to affect encoding :)

There was absolutely a confluence of events in the 20’s and 30’s that led to the mj tax act – the first legislation vs MJ. Hearst definitely was one of the driving forces behind making it illegal for financial gain – just as you described. Hemp is actually part of the cannabis plant (the stalk fibers) – MJ is obviously the leafy top portion (the flowers/buds). Hemp contains less than .03% of THC yet because it is part of the same plant, is considered a schedule 1 substance under the controlled substance act. Talk about ludicrous. Hemp is the #1 agricultural crop in the world and one of the most useful plants ever. It grows everywhere but the arctic, requires few pesticides and no herbicides, it is one of the most robust, durable, soft fibers in the world and can be used as fabric, paper (the declaration of independence was written on hemp), biodegradable plastic, food (contains all essential amino & fatty acids), bio fuel, medicinal purposes. 19th century American farmers were actually ordered to grow it.

Because of its superiority to Dupont’s product, it was obviously target number one for Hearst. Coincidentally, his good buddy Harry Anslinger (who was basically the country’s top drug enforcement officer at the time) was also extremely motivated to ban the substance in order to ensure his agency’s existence and more importantly their hefty budget at the time. Obviously banning a weed that was growing everywhere would take tremendous financial resources. Together they launched a propaganda war against the substance since the scientific and medical evidence at the time (i.e., the LaGuardia Commission) couldn’t back up claims that the substance was dangerous or addictive. There was a concerted effort to link MJ use with fringe groups (minorities, lower SES, immigrants) and predatory, crime and insanity (reefer madness). Blacks in the south (particularly Louisiana) and Mexicans on the tx border who were a useful labor source in the 20s when we needed them but during the depression were nothing more than surplus labor when nobody had work. Arresting them for MJ possession was an easy way to drive them out of the country. 1 joint sent to jail for life – campaigns for the death penalty. It was an easy time to prey on a nation’s fears unemployment, hunger, immigrants, crime. Again, because the scientific evidence was not supporting their position at the time, they launched a full court press with a relentless propaganda war against MJ (exaggerated and untrue claims of it causing insanity, violent, crime (it has always been found to be negatively associated with crime because stoners are too damned lazy to go out and cause trouble), suicide, luring children etc.) all of this because it would’ve been unconstitutional to outright ban it.

Also, you are correct IMO regarding the whole gateway issue. Chemically there is no inherent property in MJ that pushes one to do other drugs. There is definitely an opinion that its gateway properties have much more to do with the black market blending hard and soft drugs and therefore exposing people to drugs they would not otherwise be exposed to, which incidentally, legalizing MJ would eliminate.

Mogulseeker
07-06-2011, 09:44 PM
Regarding the last few posts in this... I will admit to visiting a coffee shop while living in the Netherlands. The kind of people that go into the coffee shops there are just like anyone on this board...

I saw some shady people there, but I also saw businessmen in suits coming in Firday evening after a long week at work. In fact, I think most of the coffee shop patrons weren't shady at all.

Mogulseeker
07-06-2011, 09:45 PM
It is bad for your liver, I don't know the chemistry to tell you why.

They put it in Vicodin and other class III (I think Class II is hard Opiates like Morphine) pain killers so the junkies won't melt it down and inject it into their arms and Dr's won't prescribe for long periods, from what I have been told.

Yeah... I don't know why I said heart. Probably a good thing I'm not a doctor.

serious hops
07-06-2011, 11:24 PM
Medical marijuana are a freekin joke... There is no way in hell that most of the 20-30 year olds with cards need it for any medical issue, just pot heads looking for an angle and "Doctors" handing put perscriptions. 3 guys I work with have them and not 1 of them have a single ailment, they just like smoking pot and prefer getting the good stuff and have worked the system to get their buzz on. Total farce.

It's an exponentially bigger farce that the stuff is illegal in the first place.

alkemical
07-07-2011, 05:30 AM
What do you guys think of this:

www.phoenixtears.ca

(it's not NSFW - but it deals with 'hemp' and cancer)

Garcia Bronco
07-07-2011, 05:40 AM
I don't know how physicians are actually prescribing marijuana and not getting in trouble with the federal government. Physicians have to have both a state issued and federally issued license to prescribe medication, both of which are separate from the license to practice medicine. Marijuana is schedule 1, which means it is not legal to write a prescription for it as far as the federal government is concerned.

The only way the Feds could do **** is if the mj crosses state lines. Otherwise it's none of their business.

alkemical
07-07-2011, 05:44 AM
The only way the Feds could do **** is if the mj crosses state lines. Otherwise it's none of their business.

Well, they do like to flex their muscles and have made some moves at places in CA before. Not that i'm disagreeing with you, but it's one of those things that makes me paranoid about the gov't.

HorseHead
07-07-2011, 10:05 AM
getting away from using it for recreational or medicinal purposes....

the plant itself (hemp) is pretty amazing...paper, cloth, oil etc..., the founding fathers knew what was up...

Requiem
07-07-2011, 10:13 AM
They are doing testing in Colorado at a lab on some ganj with 46% THC.

:)

alkemical
07-07-2011, 10:14 AM
So, what are good arguments for legalization/decrim?

(I personally support decrim)

If we talk about saving the budget, will the tax revenues in the billions help with our trillions in debt? (even if you add in reduction in prison/LE/etc)

Would it be a better argument if people just supported it BECAUSE they want to get stoned - without worrying about jail time?

Abqbronco
07-07-2011, 10:15 AM
I imagine there would be "no smoking mj" bans is just about every public place if there were suddenly a nationwide legalization of it. There are many places where you can't bring your own beer and start drinking, and most public places now ban smoking cigarettes.

The major problem is there is no politician out there with big enough balls to try to attempt this. They would be afraid of being instantly labeled the "druggie" candidate, and they care more about winning elections than fixing the weed problem.

www.garyjohnson2012.com

Requiem
07-07-2011, 10:15 AM
They are all good arguments. Regulating a natural growing plant is retarded.

Dr. Broncenstein
07-07-2011, 10:21 AM
The only way the Feds could do **** is if the mj crosses state lines. Otherwise it's none of their business.

You cannot write a prescription for a schedule 1 controlled substance without violating federal law. You cannot write a prescription for any controlled substance without an active federal DEA license. This is what I cannot figure out. How are physicians legally writing precriptions for a schedule 1 substance and not having their license revoked / put in jail?

Pony Boy
07-07-2011, 10:49 AM
They are all good arguments. Regulating a natural growing plant is retarded.

Peyote is a natural growing cactus plant native to Texas and New Mexico and its use is accepted by my tribe in Oklahoma and also with members of the Native American Church. I choose not to participate in any peyote sweat lodge ceremonies but I have witnessed several in my younger days. Trust me on this one, you do not want federal restrictions removed on this natural growing plant.

Bronco Vixen
07-07-2011, 10:55 AM
So, what are good arguments for legalization/decrim?

(I personally support decrim)

If we talk about saving the budget, will the tax revenues in the billions help with our trillions in debt? (even if you add in reduction in prison/LE/etc)

Would it be a better argument if people just supported it BECAUSE they want to get stoned - without worrying about jail time?

IMO decriminalization doesn't really solve many problems other than prison overcrowding. Because MJ would still be illegal, it wouldn't get rid of the black market including drug related crime. Not to mention it sends a very confusing message - this is an illegal substance but go ahead and use it and you won't be punished. Legalization on the other hand obviously allows for taxation, which as you mentioned allows billions of dollars to be collected and fed into much needed areas (healthcare for one). Legalization also allows for regulation:

They are all good arguments. Regulating a natural growing plant is retarded.

I disagree. As Pony Boy points out, just like peyote, THC is a psychoactive compound that therefore must be regulated. As you pointed out in an earlier post, the concentration of THC can vary widely up to 45%. There would have to be some way to ensure purity and a reliable thc concentration. Also, regulation would help keep it out of the hands of minors, which is critical.

Dr. Broncenstein
07-07-2011, 11:04 AM
Peyote is a natural growing cactus plant native to Texas and New Mexico and its use is accepted by my tribe in Oklahoma and also with members of the Native American Church. I choose not to participate in any peyote sweat lodge ceremonies but I have witnessed several in my younger days. Trust me on this one, you do not want federal restrictions removed on this natural growing plant.

In all seriousness though... has there been another drug as devastating to the Native American population as perfectly legal alcohol?

bowtown
07-07-2011, 11:09 AM
In all seriousness though... has there been another drug as devastating to the Native American population as perfectly legal alcohol?

Possibly gasoline or glue.

Pony Boy
07-07-2011, 11:11 AM
In all seriousness though... has there been another drug as devastating to the Native American population as perfectly legal alcohol?

Yes totally agree about alcohol but my point was you must have federal restrictions on some natural growing plants; you would not want peyote available on the street corner.

alkemical
07-07-2011, 11:15 AM
IMO decriminalization doesn't really solve many problems other than prison overcrowding. Because MJ would still be illegal, it wouldn't get rid of the black market including drug related crime. Not to mention it sends a very confusing message - this is an illegal substance but go ahead and use it and you won't be punished. Legalization on the other hand obviously allows for taxation, which as you mentioned allows billions of dollars to be collected and fed into much needed areas (healthcare for one). Legalization also allows for regulation:



I disagree. As Pony Boy points out, just like peyote, THC is a psychoactive compound that therefore must be regulated. As you pointed out in an earlier post, the concentration of THC can vary widely up to 45%. There would have to be some way to ensure purity and a reliable thc concentration. Also, regulation would help keep it out of the hands of minors, which is critical.

Does regulation really keep things out the hands of minors?

Cigs, Alcohol, porn, video games, movies?

I don't think the criminal nature should be presented, and I don't fully "trust" the gov't to spend the taxation correctly. (we've seen failed tax & spend policies before).

I understand the nature of still having law enforcement (to me, this would ensure punishment for distribution to minors, etc) - i understand it's a quasi world with Decrim - It's one I personally support - even though I understand the "grey areas" that allow it to fall through certain cracks of policy.

Wouldn't removing the "criminal" sides of things though, relinquish the burden?

Look at states with the Rx plan in place. Last time i was in CO - it seemed the prices were "double" the legal route - as opposed to the "black market" route.

You are still going to have that market, if the price dictates it.

alkemical
07-07-2011, 11:16 AM
Yes totally agree about alcohol but my point was you must have federal restrictions on some natural growing plants; you would not want peyote available on the street corner.

What about sage plants, or poppies?

Bronco Vixen
07-07-2011, 11:58 AM
Does regulation really keep things out the hands of minors?

Cigs, Alcohol, porn, video games, movies?

Of course not entirely but at least it's an attempt to do so. Again, anecdotally "the youth" tell me it's harder to get cigarettes and booze than MJ. Because something isn't 100% successful means we shouldn't implement it at all? Again, do we really want our minors going to drug dealers if they're going to be getting it anyway?

I don't think the criminal nature should be presented, and I don't fully "trust" the gov't to spend the taxation correctly. (we've seen failed tax & spend policies before).

With good reason! :) However, again, because something isn't executed 100% successfully we should bag it? Is no money better than money, some of which will undoubtedly be misspent? Also, why do we want to continue to employ drug dealers at all?

I understand the nature of still having law enforcement (to me, this would ensure punishment for distribution to minors, etc) - i understand it's a quasi world with Decrim - It's one I personally support - even though I understand the "grey areas" that allow it to fall through certain cracks of policy.

I would venture a guess that "grey areas" are not law enforcement's specialty. Nor probably should they be. And if you're going to the trouble of pushing a policy that something should not be criminal - aren't you in essence implying that it should be legal?

Wouldn't removing the "criminal" sides of things though, relinquish the burden?

Which is what legalization does with the added bonus of tax revenue and regulation (both of which aren't perfect but preferable in my opinion).

Look at states with the Rx plan in place. Last time i was in CO - it seemed the prices were "double" the legal route - as opposed to the "black market" route.

You are still going to have that market, if the price dictates it.

I'm not sure I understand this.

Bottom line, there are certainly arguments for both decrim and legalizing.

Bronco Vixen
07-07-2011, 11:59 AM
What about sage plants, or poppies?

yes for the Papaver somniferum

Taco John
07-07-2011, 02:02 PM
My absolutely only issue with marijuana is that if completely legalized, irresponsible people couldn't control who got a contact high.

Contact highs are a myth.

Chris
07-07-2011, 02:04 PM
And I can't think of the term but is there no legitimacy to the myth that you'll be permanently impacted from long term usage? People I know who have drunk all their lives can seem perfectly fine when they aren't drinking. I've always heard smokers basically bake their brains.

There have been studies that suggest it can lead to psychosis in some people (check the bbc website).

Taco John
07-07-2011, 02:06 PM
A buddy of mine got a doctor to give him an RX for weed for a "bad back" that was chronic...or something. The next day the kid is doing backflips off a roof into a pool.

IT'S A MIRACLE!

Mogulseeker
07-07-2011, 02:11 PM
Contact highs are a myth.

That's what I'm saying. I'm around it all the time, and I've never felt high... and I've passed all my Navy drug tests. If I wanted to go back in, or join the CIA, MJ exposure wouldn't be an issue.

I'm pretty much in agreement with everything Broncenstein has said on this thread... mostly harmless, should be legalized... but most people who do it are basically big kids.

I mentioned successful lawyer who does it a lot... she's smart and good at what she does... emotionally retarded.

jhns
07-07-2011, 02:13 PM
I had to go to NA because of weed before. I felt like Dave Chappelle in Half Baked. There are guys there talking about how they realized they had problems when they found themselves homeless, shooting at birds with nail guns while half naked in the streets and on heroin. Luckily they don't make you get up and talk. I would have laughed pretty hard if someone yelled something about "Have you ever sucked dick for weed?!"

It amazes me that some actually think of weed as being comparable to other drugs.

BroncoLifer
07-07-2011, 02:29 PM
Funny and makes some very true points:
5 Pro-marijuana arguments that aren't helping

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-pro-marijuana-arguments-that-arent-helping/

Mogulseeker
07-07-2011, 02:37 PM
Funny and makes some very true points:
5 Pro-marijuana arguments that aren't helping

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-pro-marijuana-arguments-that-arent-helping/

I read that MJ is 4 times as carcinogenic than tobbacco. Then again, I've never known anyone to smoke 20-40 j's a day.... or even 3 or 4, either.

Actually, scratch that, I know some people that might be smoking 3 or 4 a day.

jhns
07-07-2011, 02:45 PM
Funny and makes some very true points:
5 Pro-marijuana arguments that aren't helping

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-pro-marijuana-arguments-that-arent-helping/

He makes a few good points and a bunch of retarded points... I didn't find any of it funny though.

broncosteven
07-07-2011, 03:30 PM
There have been studies that suggest it can lead to psychosis in some people (check the bbc website).

I worked with a lady who smoked since the late 60's when she was a teen and she has all sorts of parinoia(sp?) and anxiety issues that her doctors say are from the weed but she wouldn't stop smoking.

houghtam
07-07-2011, 03:50 PM
I mentioned successful lawyer who does it a lot... she's smart and good at what she does... emotionally retarded.

Can you have her register on the Mane and give me a PM? I'd like to party with her.

Mogulseeker
07-07-2011, 04:16 PM
Can you have her register on the Mane and give me a PM? I'd like to party with her.

She's not talking to me right now. She's big on the MJ scene and new to the cocaine scene... big reason why she's basically a rich, grown-up middle school girl living in Lodo and going out every single ****ing night.... calling old high school friends for a one-night stand and getting really weird when they stay the night.

Spider
07-07-2011, 04:26 PM
It's complicated

houghtam
07-07-2011, 05:22 PM
She's not talking to me right now. She's big on the MJ scene and new to the cocaine scene... big reason why she's basically a rich, grown-up middle school girl living in Lodo and going out every single ****ing night.... calling old high school friends for a one-night stand and getting really weird when they stay the night.

Okay well as son as you talk to her again, give her my PM. No baggage. Maybe we can move to Myrtle Beach together.

JPPT1974
07-07-2011, 05:35 PM
Still though marijuana is a drug. As even those that want it for medical reasons. May and can die from it. If you do it too much.

Dr. Broncenstein
07-07-2011, 05:38 PM
Still though marijuana is a drug. As even those that want it for medical reasons. May and can die from it. If you do it too much.

No, you can't. Well, maybe if you choke on it...

bowtown
07-07-2011, 05:50 PM
No, you can't. Well, maybe if you choke on it...

Or maybe pass out in the gravity bong.

Which reminds me, do you think the government has the technology to build an antigravity bong? I would guess yes, but we'll never see it. Something like that would most likely end civilization as we know it. Too powerful.

houghtam
07-07-2011, 06:49 PM
Still though marijuana is a drug. As even those that want it for medical reasons. May and can die from it. If you do it too much.

Link?

I can say you could die from being a Rockies fan, doesn't make it true.

Yes, marijuana is a drug. So is caffeine, alcohol and aspirin. Anyone who thinks you can die from it hasn't done it before and has no basis for their opinion other than heresay, myth and conjecture.

Pony Boy
07-07-2011, 09:23 PM
Contact highs are a myth.

Well I guess you haven't smoked Labrador Poop......


<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xFwtWaONcN8?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xFwtWaONcN8?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

Boobs McGee
07-07-2011, 09:30 PM
http://www.lycaeum.org/leda/ is a great resource with hundreds of pages, articles, links, etc regarding many different drugs.

If any of you have questions about the legitimacy of the recent (last 40ish years) studies "proving" how harmful marijuana is to the human body, go google "heath/tulane study", Dr. Nahas, the book "the emperor has no clothes" by jack herer...there are numerous studies debunking all of the popular myths out there. Hell, its even been found to HELP emphysema patients. Pretty incredible what a few crappy scientists can perpetuate.

Mogulseeker
07-07-2011, 10:01 PM
I prefer just to watch the movie Reefer Madness and nothing else. Regarding mary jane.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bM_vLk1I6G4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rain Man
07-20-2011, 06:03 PM
Hi all,

I apologize for temporarily hijacking a perfectly good thread for an unusual post.

First off, I got permission from Taco John to post this, so please don't beat me up for soliciting or anything. I seldom post, but have been a member here for a while, and I'm not even really that much of a troll.

My company is conducting some research among people with medical marijuana cards, and we need participants for a focus group on July 21st, 2011, in downtown Denver. It pays $50 for about 90 minutes of giving your opinion, and there'll also be a light meal provided. It's a one-time event, so you wouldn't need to do anything after that night.

We have another group that evening with dispensary owners. Same pay, same process.

This is opinion research only, regarding some potential new public policies. We're a neutral research firm, and we would have you and other cardholders/dispensary owners sitting around a table and would have a discussion about the policies.

If you're in the Denver area and are interested, please send me a private message and I'll give you contact information so we can see if you're eligible to participate.

Thanks, and thanks as well to Taco John for letting me post it.