PDA

View Full Version : America's quantifiable greatness


Mogulseeker
07-04-2011, 08:01 AM
Last September I was in Munich for Oktoberfest. I was the only American in a travel group of mostly Canadians and Swedes. We stupidly decided to hit up the bars at night after drinking all day – and on the train returning to our hotel a group of Germans asked us if we were American, and before I had a time to respond, one of the Canadians snapped, “No... Canada… **** America.” I’d like to point out that he was eating a Whopper from Burger King and wearing a Hollister sweatshirt while he said this.

Everyone wants a Keyensian when times are bad. With the US debt over $14 trillion, two wars, below-average elementary education, obesity and general sentiment of isolationism, much is made of the fact that the US, with 5 percent of the world population and using 25 percent of it's resources. people – especially people who have never been here – love to stress the bad. But greatness can be quantified.

Consider for a second empires past. British colonialism, the Dutch slave trade, the Spanish inquisition, the Mongolian empire, Indian caste, Nazi Germany, Italian facism, the Napoleonic wars. The United States of America is the most ethical superpower ever, and its best days are still ahead.

Now with that out of the way, consider this my tribute to the greatest civilization in the history of civilization. Empires are built around how leaders respond to power and wealth. Rome did not fall because it was the birthplace of democracy, nor did it fall due to lack of innovation. It fell because its people became too fat and lazy and overwhelmed with power politics. Is America headed in the same direction? No. While the Europeans and Canadians – indeed the entire developed and developing world - love to point out US dysfunction, I thought I would take this, American Independence Day, and the God-given birthright of American exceptionalism to familiarize my friends with a few facts:

- The US has the highest percentage of college graduates in the world with four-year degrees from tier-1 institutions, according to US News and World Report.

- Excluding two-year degrees, the US produces more scientists and mathematicians per capita than any other country in the world.

- While lacking in lower-ed, the US has the best higher education system in the world: according to the UK guardian, 67 of the top 100 colleges in the world are in the US. Second place is Britain, with 12.

- 24 of the largest 25 foreign direct investments in 2008 were in the US, according to Foreign Policy magazine.

- While the US lags behind the UN mandate of .7 percent of GDP for foreign aid (in reality the only countries that fufill this quota are Norway and Switzerland), this doesn’t account for private charity – which, if included, you’ll find that the US gives more per capita in humanitarian aid than any other nation in the world.

- America conducts 76 percent of the world’s biomedical research – the next great medical innovation will almost certainly come from here, according to Foreign Affairs magazine

- The US conducts more nanotechnology research than the next three nations (Germany, Britain and China) combined, according to Foreign Affairs magazine.

- A lot is made about the fact that the US uses more energy per capita than any other nation… but in doing so, America is leading the world in green technology. And that doesn’t even account for economic capital. According to the US energy information administration, which measures energy usage (in British thermal units) in terms of economic capital created, the US is actually doing quite well. When factoring in economic capital, the US has a more environmentally efficient economy than Canada, Australia, Luxembourg, China, Switzerland, and all the Scandinavian and Eastern European countries.

Indeed, the entire developed world depends on the US for prosperity. As generations progress, people forget that it was the US that developed the Marshall plan, Bretton Woods and the UN. Consider:

- After WWII, Europe was in shambles. The United States’ Marshall plan rebuilt not only Europe’s infrastructure, but also mandated a Kantian perpetual peace – and no European power has been at war since. Indeed, without the US, it is not unlikely that Europe would still be in poverty, and would have suffered through more major wars.

- The only other major European war since then was in the Balkins in the 90s. The Americans saved the Europeans there, too.

- Bretton Woods established the global financial system, and established the IMF, World Bank, and floating exchange rates (and indirectly supporting democracy by weakening the appeal of communism). The IMF and World Bank continue to be the main financial institutions that help underdeveloped countries pull themselves out of poverty.

- The US spends more on defense than the rest of the world combined, and dominated military research and development. The entire democratic world lives under the umbrella of US protection.

But let’s continue the history lesson. American ingenuity doesn’t stop with Bretton Woods:

- While it was the Brits that invented the computer, America perfected it by creating the home computer

- The American military developed the internet (the ever-contentious military industrial complex)… suck it, doves and peaceniks.

- The Big Mac… and 24-hour markets.

- The light bulb

- The air plane

- Curing polio

- Stopping Hitler (German is such an ugly sounding language, I’m glad I don’t have to speak it.) I would also like to apologize to all my German friends for even mentioning this, as in my experience the Germans are the most pro-American of all the foreign developed countries.

All evidence points otherwise, but if America is to decline, then that decline will surely be a product of a dysfunctional political system. The bane of civilization has always been unchecked democracy. The founding fathers were torn between two systems: Federalism and bicameral Democratic-Republicanism. The latter prevailed precisely because the founders wanted to empower the voters, without seceding effective government.

Today, our congressmen and senators are smart people, but they are people nonetheless. What little news value I gathered out of the Anthony Weiner scandal was twofold: first, it demonstrates the machtpolitik (told you German words sound ugly) of those who run, and secondly, the partisan response - par for the course in the American campaign system. American politics truly is a bloody, gloves-off power game. Politics unleashes intelligent, thoughtful people into partisan discord, creates an influx of special interest and pseudointellectual movements like the Tea Party, and gets people to actively vote against their interest. Triangulation in politics now means that socially-conservative, populist union members and farmers are now voting GOP because of trivial social issues, rather than what should be truly important to them, like health care, minimum wages, fair trade, and agrisubsidies. At the other end of the spectrum, younger voters who are new to the political system are moving more to the left, despite the growing debt.

Is America on the decline? I don’t think it’s functionally possible that American dominance will decline in a unipolar or multipolar global system. Our GDP continues to be three times bigger than the next largest competitor, and GDP growth remains high and constant. The EU is dysfunctional right now and even if China catches up, or even surpasses the US, they sill have a massive population to support.

While the younger generation is willingly allowing the boomers to finance our future, all signals point to American leadership in the future, even if that leadership and quality of life is weakened. I have faith that my generation can abandon the culture war – the thing that worries me is that the left will come out of the culture war victoriously. So tread softly, my fellow Americans. Enjoy today because in the long run, we’re all dead.

Go America… Go Broncos.

<div style="background-color:#000000;width:368px;"><div style="padding:4px;"><embed src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:southparkstudios.com:152970" width="360" height="293" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" base="." flashVars=""></embed><p style="text-align:left;background-color:#FFFFFF;padding:4px;margin-top:4px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;"><b><a href="http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s05e09-osama-bin-laden-has-farty-pants">Osama bin Laden Has Farty Pants</a></b><br/>Tags: <a style="display: block; position: relative; top: -1.33em; float: right; font-weight: bold; color: #ffcc00; text-decoration: none" href="http://www.southparkstudios.com/">SOUTH<br/>PARK</a><a href="http://www.southparkstudios.com/guide/episodes/s05e09-osama-bin-laden-has-farty-pants">more...</a></p></div></div>

gyldenlove
07-04-2011, 08:50 AM
Wow, so many errors in a single post, did you get this from Fox News?

The US has the highest percentage of college graduates in the world


No, you are not even in the top 10. Ireland, Canada, Belgium, New Zealand and Japan all rank substantially higher.

While the US lags behind the UN mandate of .7 percent of GDP for foreign aid (in reality the only countries that fufill this quota are Norway and Switzerland), this doesn’t account for private charity – which, if included, you’ll find that the US gives more per capita in humanitarian aid than any other nation in the world.


No, your private charity to foreign aid is not even 1/3 of your total foreign aid and it still doesn't get you into the top 10 per capita aid providers.

- A lot is made about the fact that the US uses more energy per capita than any other nation… but in doing so, America is leading the world in green technology. And that doesn’t even account for economic capital. According to the US energy institute, which measures energy usage (in British thermal units) in terms of economic capital created, the US is actually doing quite well. When factoring in economic capital, the US has a more environmentally efficient economy than Canada, Australia, Luxembourg, China, Switzerland, and all the Scandinavian and Eastern European countries.


There is no such thing as the US Energy Institute, are you talking about the ExxonMobile 21st century energy institute? because it really isn't a very reliable source. The US generates less of its energy from non-fossil sources than a bunch of European countries, the US hasn't developed any significant fossil fuel reduction or filtering techniques in the last 20 years, while Europe and Asia have made several innovations.

The only other major European war since then was in the Balkins in the 90s. The Americans saved the Europeans there, too.

- Stopping Hitler (German is such an ugly sounding language, I’m glad I don’t have to speak it.) I would also like to apologize to all my German friends for even mentioning this, as in my experience the Germans are the most pro-American of all the foreign developed countries.


I know the Americans don't like losing to the Russians, but the Russians did much more to beat Germany in WW2 than the US, Britain did much more than the US to beat the Germans in WW1.

- The US spends more on defense than the rest of the world combined, and dominated military research and development. The entire democratic world lives under the umbrella of US protection.


Aside from the democratic leaders you have replaced with dictators. More dictators and despots have been propped up by the US and are being held in power by the states than democracies. There is a reason you haven't won a war since you turned up late to the party in WW2, you are not that good at it.

- The American military developed the internet (the ever-contentious military industrial complex)… suck it, doves and peaceniks.


A common misconception in the States. The technology and concept was developed partially at MIT, UCLA and quite a bit of work was done at UK national lab. TCP/IP which is the base of the internet was developed at Stanford.

- The light bulb


Another piece of American revisionist history, in fact the first light bulbs were demonstrated in the UK nearly 25 years before Edison was born.

- Curing polio


That wasn't American ingenuity, that was Polish ingenuity.

Is America on the decline? I don’t think it’s functionally possible that American dominance will decline in a unipolar or multipolar global system. Our GDP continues to be three times bigger than the next largest competitor, and GDP growth remains high and constant. The EU is dysfunctional right now and even if China catches up, or even surpasses the US, they sill have a massive population to support.


The GDP of the EU is 20% higher than the GDP of the US.

Mogulseeker
07-04-2011, 09:10 AM
1. The college graduate statistic only includes four-year degrees from tier-1 institutions. It depends on who you ask, too - especially in terms of defining the quality of the degree. The college board policy center has the US at 6th - http://completionagenda.collegeboard.org/sites/default/files/reports_pdf/Progress_Report_2010.pdf
2. Again, I don't know about this... I think I did actually get this statistic from Fox News a while back.
3. http://www.eia.gov/ sorry, "US Energy Information Administration"
4. You deny that the A-bomb contributed significantly to the end of WWII... likewise, you skirted over the Balkans.
5. Yeah, we protected our vital interest. And it defeated the Soviet Union. For example, Pinochet was a bastard... but was he any worse than Allende? Maybe, but Chile's economy receded under Allende and grew under Pinochet. And what is the norm now? Former US backed dictators are dropping - Saddam (overthrown), Mubarak (we basically threw him under the bus when the Egyptian revolution started), etc.
6. The US military developed the internet, and the public institutions you mentioned are all American.
7. Correct, but Edisons lightbulb was the only one efficient enough for widespread use. Edison invented the light bulb that people actually used.
8. I don't know about this... I was quoting Fareed Zakariah
9. I was going to mention the EU GDP in the note, but it was getting too long. The EU is dysfunctional right now, and their per-capita GDP is significantly lower than the US. Look at Greece and Spain - you're an idiot if you think the EU is a single entity.

If you love the Soviet Union so much, why don't you move to Turkmenistan?

Read this article and get back to me:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/04/the_future_of_american_power.html

glennst
07-04-2011, 09:16 AM
You post was supposed to be a rebuttal of the facts stated by the OP, but you failed to back up any of your points either making your "facts" just as dubious as his.

Worse, you were not honest or objective in your assessment which leads me to believe that you are more interested in arguing your point than informing.

For example, this point was particularly dishonest:
- Curing polio
That wasn't American ingenuity, that was Polish ingenuity.

I assume that you are saying that because the person who developed the vaccine was an immigrant from Poland, that makes it less of an American achievement. I have news for you: everyone is this country, minus Native Americans, is either an immigrant or a descendent from an immigrant. The research and development of the Polio vaccine happened here in the US. The strength of this country has always been that we attract great people from around the globe.

wolverine
07-04-2011, 09:22 AM
We rule!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity

Mogulseeker
07-04-2011, 09:29 AM
You post was supposed to be a rebuttal of the facts stated by the OP, but you failed to back up any of your points either making your "facts" just as dubious as his.

Worse, you were not honest or objective in your assessment which leads me to believe that you are more interested in arguing your point than informing.

For example, this point was particularly dishonest:


I assume that you are saying that because the person who developed the vaccine was an immigrant from Poland, that makes it less of an American achievement. I have news for you: everyone is this country, minus Native Americans, is either an immigrant or a descendent from an immigrant. The research and development of the Polio vaccine happened here in the US. The strength of this country has always been that we attract great people from around the globe.

If Albert Einstein helped the US develop the A-bomb, and he was a German immigrant... so... Germany developed the a-bomb?

Likewise, the US bombings on Camobodia during the Vietnam war were architected by a German, Henry Kissneger... wow, it's such a great burden off our back knowing that the Germans were responsible for Vietnam 8')

DenverBrit
07-04-2011, 09:43 AM
1. The college graduate statistic only includes four-year degrees from tier-1 institutions. It depends on who you ask, too - especially in terms of defining the quality of the degree. The college board policy center has the US at 6th - http://completionagenda.collegeboard.org/sites/default/files/reports_pdf/Progress_Report_2010.pdf
2. Again, I don't know about this... I think I did actually get this statistic from Fox News a while back.
3. http://www.eia.gov/ sorry, "US Energy Information Administration"
4. You deny that the A-bomb contributed significantly to the end of WWII... likewise, you skirted over the Balkans.
5. Yeah, we protected our vital interest. And it defeated the Soviet Union. For example, Pinochet was a bastard... but was he any worse than Allende? Maybe, but Chile's economy receded under Allende and grew under Pinochet. And what is the norm now? Former US backed dictators are dropping - Saddam (overthrown), Mubarak (we basically threw him under the bus when the Egyptian revolution started), etc.
6. The US military developed the internet, and the public institutions you mentioned are all American.
7. Correct, but Edisons lightbulb was the only one efficient enough for widespread use. Edison invented the light bulb that people actually used.
8. I don't know about this... I was quoting Fareed Zakariah
9. I was going to mention the EU GDP in the note, but it was getting too long. The EU is dysfunctional right now, and their per-capita GDP is significantly lower than the US. Look at Greece and Spain - you're an idiot if you think the EU is a single entity.

If you love the Soviet Union so much, why don't you move to Turkmenistan?

Read this article and get back to me:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/04/the_future_of_american_power.html

Seriously, you lose any argument when you take that path.

Gyldenlove is correct about the Soviet contribution to WW2. It was massive.

DenverBrit
07-04-2011, 09:50 AM
If Albert Einstein helped the US develop the A-bomb, and he was a German immigrant... so... Germany developed the a-bomb?

Likewise, the US bombings on Camobodia during the Vietnam war were architected by a German, Henry Kissneger... wow, it's such a great burden off our back knowing that the Germans were responsible for Vietnam 8')

Many individuals of various nationalities and several countries contributed to the A Bomb.

The quick answer:

During World War II, the United States, with the assistance (collaboration) of physicists, mathematicians, and engineers from the U.S., Britain, Canada and Germany (former Nazi physicists), completed the Manhattan Project to produce the first atomic bomb.

Dagmar
07-04-2011, 09:54 AM
http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/n/U/moran.jpg

brncs_fan
07-04-2011, 09:57 AM
Seriously, you lose any argument when you take that path.

Gyldenlove is correct about the Soviet contribution to WW2. It was massive.

And all it cost the Soviets was most of their farmable land and several million people.

Pony Boy
07-04-2011, 09:59 AM
before I had a time to respond, one of the Canadians snapped, “No... Canada… **** America.”

You never did say if you let that statement slide or did you kick his Canadian ass across the room?

DenverBrit
07-04-2011, 10:05 AM
We rule!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity

The biggest surprise on that list is NZ @#7.

They are so active year round. A lot like CO, but with coastlines too.

DenverBrit
07-04-2011, 10:06 AM
And all it cost the Soviets was most of their farmable land and several million people.

26 million by most estimates.

Mogulseeker
07-04-2011, 10:21 AM
You never did say if you let that statement slide or did you kick his Canadian ass across the room?

No I just went home with the German girl he was hitting on that night...

Pendejo
07-04-2011, 10:45 AM
You never did say if you let that statement slide or did you kick his Canadian ass across the room?

That'd be a pretty sad day when it comes to busting a Canadian in the mush for nation smack. I've always taken the tact of who cares what a Canadian thinks about America. The French can include themselves in this as well.

USA #1...Hairy warts and all. The rest of the world can battle it out for the loser's spots.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-04-2011, 10:56 AM
What is the American obsession with being the best evah? It's so ****ing weird. It's a great country to live in and there's a lot we get right. But there's also a **** ton we get wrong but if we always turn a blind eye to that, we'll crumble. I don't get the arrogance.

cutthemdown
07-04-2011, 10:59 AM
It's not arrogance it's pride!

SonOfLe-loLang
07-04-2011, 11:05 AM
It's not arrogance it's pride!

That's a fine line. There's being patriotic, then there's consistently needing to prove yr way is better than another. It's nationalistic and weird

cutthemdown
07-04-2011, 11:22 AM
No I just went home with the German girl he was hitting on that night...

I would have at least made fun of Canada to piss him off. Then again I get my Canidia info from SOUTHPARK. But then I remember my dads story about 2 Canadians saving his ass from being beat really bad while on leave in Subic Bay in the Phillipines. Came out of nowhere to help him while he was all alone and being assaulted so I guess I have to say Canada kicks ass....sometimes. :)

Mogulseeker
07-04-2011, 11:33 AM
What is the American obsession with being the best evah? It's so ****ing weird. It's a great country to live in and there's a lot we get right. But there's also a **** ton we get wrong but if we always turn a blind eye to that, we'll crumble. I don't get the arrogance.

I wouldn't call it arrogance. Most foreigners are really our on the idea of American exceptionalism, as is any power in a unipolar system.

I love European culture. Paris is amazing and the food is great there. Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia has far more social equitythen we do (mostly due to social hegemony)... Italy is amazing, too.

But if any of them were in our position, you better believe they would be the same way.

If you get a chance, you should read Power and Weakness by Robert Kagan.


I would have at least made fun of Canada to piss him off. Then again I get my Canidia info from SOUTHPARK. But then I remember my dads story about 2 Canadians saving his ass from being beat really bad while on leave in Subic Bay in the Phillipines. Came out of nowhere to help him while he was all alone and being assaulted so I guess I have to say Canada kicks ass....sometimes. :)

He was begging to go to Burger King all night. He was obsessed with the Calgary Flames and wearing Holister California, and he was humming Akon... I think I said something along the lines of "WTF are you talking about, you're more American than I am."

ColoradoDarin
07-04-2011, 11:38 AM
http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/n/U/moran.jpg

Poor Morans guy, he made a clever sign when he was protesting Jim Moran, and now lives in Internet infamy.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-04-2011, 12:10 PM
I wouldn't call it arrogance. Most foreigners are really our on the idea of American exceptionalism, as is any power in a unipolar system.

I love European culture. Paris is amazing and the food is great there. Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia has far more social equitythen we do (mostly due to social hegemony)... Italy is amazing, too.

But if any of them were in our position, you better believe they would be the same way.

If you get a chance, you should read Power and Weakness by Robert Kagan.




He was begging to go to Burger King all night. He was obsessed with the Calgary Flames and wearing Holister California, and he was humming Akon... I think I said something along the lines of "WTF are you talking about, you're more American than I am."

Alot of Euros also have misconceptions of today's America. Most Swedes I talk to (now having been there a couple of times, and theres a decent swede population in LA) are quite surprised to learn that there's actually more economic mobility in sweden than there is in the US (which is odd all things considered, but its sadly true). I'm not sure what the whole "if they were in our position, they'd do it this way too" thing means, but i will say i dont really think there's a right way to govern 300 million people. No matter what, someone's gonna get the shaft. We obviously do a decent job of it, but we're awful rigid in the face of adaption and change. Again, I think america is a great place to live, i like living here, but i wouldnt mind living in other countries too...and i'd jump at the chance to live in one of those scandinavian social demos (but i have to admit im a bit sensitive to the cold:).

I don't call american patriotism arrogance, but most americans seem to be nationalistic, as if any other country in the world is unlivable compared to ours. I was always irked by that dumb lyric "im proud to be an american, its where at least i know im free" WTF does that mean?

Fedaykin
07-04-2011, 12:24 PM
Seriously, you lose any argument when you take that path.

Gyldenlove is correct about the Soviet contribution to WW2. It was massive.

The invasions of Sicily and Normandy would not have been possible except for the fact that ~80% of the German war machine was committed to staving off the zergling rush.. errr Soviet advance on the eastern front. Of course, we were fighting on two major fronts as well, which brings up the next point:

If you really want to see the U.S. kicking ass and taking names pretty much all by its lonesome in WWII -- you only have to look to the other side of the globe.

Archer81
07-04-2011, 12:47 PM
Wow, so many errors in a single post, did you get this from Fox News?



Odd. I was going to say MSNBC.


:Broncos:

Archer81
07-04-2011, 01:00 PM
If you really want to see the U.S. kicking ass and taking names pretty much all by its lonesome in WWII -- you only have to look to the other side of the globe.


Well clearly all that ever matters is what happens in Europe.


:Broncos:

DHallblows
07-04-2011, 01:07 PM
Well clearly all that ever matters is what happens in Europe.


:Broncos:

Yeah and we're the ones that only care about ourselves ::)

Archer81
07-04-2011, 01:11 PM
Yeah and we're the ones that only care about ourselves ::)


Clearly.


:Broncos:

mhgaffney
07-04-2011, 01:58 PM
The want-to-believers go on doing the only thing they know how to do.

The apologetics for greedy empire is endless.

But the fact is we live in a post democracy.

Wall Street rules us. The rest is a footnote.

Amerikka = the graveyard of rainbows.

DHallblows
07-04-2011, 02:03 PM
Haikus are easy.
But sometimes they don't make sense.
Refrigerator.

broncocalijohn
07-04-2011, 02:10 PM
I read that whole post by MightySmurf and when it started out as "the only american in a travel group", I swear I thought he was going to tell us how he got cock blocked by some Canadian while trying to score on a Swede. Then it got political....damn!

Br0nc0Buster
07-04-2011, 03:21 PM
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sWS-FoXbjVI?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

chadta
07-04-2011, 03:43 PM
It's not arrogance it's pride!

You guys (Americans in general) go over that line when you stop talking up USA, and start pissing on any other country.

It is possible to brag up one thing without ****ting on another.

You can say how great things are without saying that everythign else sucks.

Which is why we up in Canada see you as the loud obnoxious neighbour. Tone it down a little bit, because you really are good people.

Dont get me wrong, I love the USA, I love it even more now that i get 5% discount on everything, between florida, myrtle beach, and ohio (kings island, and cedar point) i choose to spend almost all of my vacation time in the USA.

epicSocialism4tw
07-04-2011, 04:30 PM
The US also leads the world in venture capital.

epicSocialism4tw
07-04-2011, 04:32 PM
You guys (Americans in general) go over that line when you stop talking up USA, and start pissing on any other country.

It is possible to brag up one thing without ****ting on another.

You can say how great things are without saying that everythign else sucks.

Which is why we up in Canada see you as the loud obnoxious neighbour. Tone it down a little bit, because you really are good people.

Dont get me wrong, I love the USA, I love it even more now that i get 5% discount on everything, between florida, myrtle beach, and ohio (kings island, and cedar point) i choose to spend almost all of my vacation time in the USA.

Canada and Mexico exist in relative peace simply because they are the next-door neighbors to the baddest dude in the world. The baddest dude in the world who is also the type of neighbor who will show up and dispense of invaders. Same goes for the caribbean countries...including Cuba.

chadta
07-04-2011, 06:53 PM
Canada and Mexico exist in relative peace simply because they are the next-door neighbors to the baddest dude in the world. The baddest dude in the world who is also the type of neighbor who will show up and dispense of invaders. Same goes for the caribbean countries...including Cuba.

thank you for proving my point. You just cant resist trashing anything not American.

Canada really doesn't need a military at all, why, not because we are neighbours to the big guys, but because we don't have big mouths, we mind our own business, and we generally don't piss people off, so please don't pretend that we live in peace solely because of you.

Archer81
07-04-2011, 07:16 PM
The want-to-believers go on doing the only thing they know how to do.

1. The apologetics for greedy empire is endless.
2. But the fact is we live in a post democracy.

3. Wall Street rules us. The rest is a footnote.
4. Amerikka = the graveyard of rainbows.


1. I'd rather have American dominance than Chinese, Iranian or the European Union's. It says much about you that you prefer the word of dictators to your own people.

2. Considering we were not or will be a democracy I find it impossible to be a post democracy.

3. That has been whined about since 1791. Yet here we are.

4. That is possibly the gayest ****ing thing ever said.

**** off, Gaff.

:Broncos:

rugbythug
07-04-2011, 07:39 PM
thank you for proving my point. You just cant resist trashing anything not American.

Canada really doesn't need a military at all, why, not because we are neighbours to the big guys, but because we don't have big mouths, we mind our own business, and we generally don't piss people off, so please don't pretend that we live in peace solely because of you.

That's a lie. Being nice only works when dealing with nice countries.

MagicHef
07-04-2011, 08:11 PM
7. Correct, but Edisons lightbulb was the only one efficient enough for widespread use. Edison invented the light bulb that people actually used.

Not true, and not true. Edison didn't really invent much, but he was very good at hiring brilliant people and taking credit for their work. He obtained the patents for the light bulb by buying them from the widows of other inventors, "partnering" with other scientists and buying out their shares, and having any patent originating from his employees made out in his personal name. He was an incredible businessman, but not such a great scientist.

mhgaffney
07-04-2011, 08:37 PM
Tesla was light years ahead of Edison -- and no one even remembers.

Why? Because Wall Street's JP Morgan wanted it that way. They still do.

It's why the US government seized Tesla's notebooks when he died. Then -- after W II they brought in Nazi scientists to create new weapons -- based on Tesla's research.

The worst is that it's all true. You can't make this shyte up.

epicSocialism4tw
07-04-2011, 09:30 PM
thank you for proving my point. You just cant resist trashing anything not American.

Canada really doesn't need a military at all, why, not because we are neighbours to the big guys, but because we don't have big mouths, we mind our own business, and we generally don't piss people off, so please don't pretend that we live in peace solely because of you.

That's quite naive.

Houshyamama
07-04-2011, 09:35 PM
Hey you! yeah you, I was born OVER HERE. You hear that? OVER HERE!

You, you were born OVER THERE! Our small differences befuddle and confuse me! When I get confused I get angry and frustrated!

Gaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh~!

OVER HERE rules! We're the bestest! Gaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!

cutthemdown
07-04-2011, 09:59 PM
You guys (Americans in general) go over that line when you stop talking up USA, and start pissing on any other country.

It is possible to brag up one thing without ****ting on another.

You can say how great things are without saying that everythign else sucks.

Which is why we up in Canada see you as the loud obnoxious neighbour. Tone it down a little bit, because you really are good people.

Dont get me wrong, I love the USA, I love it even more now that i get 5% discount on everything, between florida, myrtle beach, and ohio (kings island, and cedar point) i choose to spend almost all of my vacation time in the USA.


I agree to some extent. I think some of it is we get defensive because a lot of other countries seem to attack us, say we are fat, lazy, empire craving zealots etc etc. When in fact America has done a lot more for other countries then most others.

I agree though that sometimes we can be over the top with our pride. Seriously though Chadta, if something horrible happened to Canada, what country do you think would be right there first to help out? You know it the USA. We may be brash to the point of being obnoxious, but we also have bravery, courage, and generosity coming out the ears. Not saying Canada doesn't.I have made jokes about Canada but also have told everyone that I love Canada. It was Canadians who saved my dads ass in subic bay just after the Korean war ended. He was on the ground, being kicked, robbed, and 2 canadians stepped in and kicked ass. I won't ever forget that story.

Out of all the countries in the world I feel we have as much in common with Canada as anyone. I'm happy that we share the continent up north with such good people.

HAT
07-04-2011, 10:02 PM
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KLVKoXp22mo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

epicSocialism4tw
07-04-2011, 10:06 PM
Hey you! yeah you, I was born OVER HERE. You hear that? OVER HERE!

You, you were born OVER THERE! Our small differences befuddle and confuse me! When I get confused I get angry and frustrated!

Gaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh~!

OVER HERE rules! We're the bestest! Gaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!

That's pretty classy in a July 4th thread.

Stay Classy, San Diego.

Houshyamama
07-04-2011, 10:10 PM
That's pretty classy in a July 4th thread.

Stay Classy, San Diego.

Get lost. If you can't see the point of my post then you're ****ing retarded.

epicSocialism4tw
07-04-2011, 10:11 PM
Get lost. If you can't see the point of my post then you're ****ing retarded.

If you don't want controversy, don't beg for it.

Houshyamama
07-04-2011, 10:14 PM
If you don't want controversy, don't beg for it.

Dude, just so you know... You don't make sense 90% of the time.

cutthemdown
07-04-2011, 10:16 PM
thank you for proving my point. You just cant resist trashing anything not American.

Canada really doesn't need a military at all, why, not because we are neighbours to the big guys, but because we don't have big mouths, we mind our own business, and we generally don't piss people off, so please don't pretend that we live in peace solely because of you.

See in your attempt to just try and make a point that sometimes America is too cocky you imply we are big mouths. That's the sort of thing we are defensive about. Also if you think your security isn't enhanced by being our ally, our neighbor, you are kidding yourself. The best think Canada has going for it is easy access to American markets, and the fact you don't have to worry about security.

But Canadians have been around in all the big wars, fighting and dying. Not like your people aren't brave. True America can be a bully at times and I don't see that ever changing. Not in my life at least. I still think we have some winning left in the ole stars and striped.

cutthemdown
07-04-2011, 10:17 PM
Dude, just so you know... You don't make sense 90% of the time.

I have to admit I re-read your post and it didn't seem that bad to me. I'm not sure what you guys were talking about, yours was like a sarcastic post about being born over here? Not sure what the big deal is.

Houshyamama
07-04-2011, 10:22 PM
I have to admit I re-read your post and it didn't seem that bad to me. I'm not sure what you guys were talking about, yours was like a sarcastic post about being born over here? Not sure what the big deal is.

Yeah I was poking fun at human nature and its tendency to develop within individuals a bias against other geologically/culturally separate groups of humans. I just find it amusing to take an objective view sometimes.

cutthemdown
07-04-2011, 10:27 PM
Yeah I was poking fun of human nature and its tendency to develop within individuals a bias against other geologically/culturally separate groups of humans. I just find it amusing to take an objective view sometimes.

Oh I thought you were making fun of people born in the usa, feeling superior to immigrants. Just so I am on the record I think people everywhere should try and be Americans. I just get mad when Mexicans want to work, life, and use services here all while waving the mexican flag, not learning english, and really not liking the American way of life etc etc.

You are talking more about nationalism. I really think you will find when you travel the world that many countries far more nationalistic then the USA. I won't lie or pretend I am really nationalistic. The country would not be good if everyone was as nationalistic as I am. Thats what makes America work, little bits of everything so nothing can really impost its will.

Houshyamama
07-04-2011, 10:36 PM
Oh I thought you were making fun of people born in the usa, feeling superior to immigrants. Just so I am on the record I think people everywhere should try and be Americans. I just get mad when Mexicans want to work, life, and use services here all while waving the mexican flag, not learning english, and really not liking the American way of life etc etc.

You are talking more about nationalism. I really think you will find when you travel the world that many countries far more nationalistic then the USA. I won't lie or pretend I am really nationalistic. The country would not be good if everyone was as nationalistic as I am. Thats what makes America work, little bits of everything so nothing can really impost its will.

My point was not directed at America, but at human nature in general. Japanese, German, Chinese... whatever. It is human nature to reject/fear/deride that which you don't understand. A microcosm of human nature can be found in warring chimp tribes. You look out for you and your own and **** everyone else. Until humans can move beyond this, (and I myself am no where near it), and develop a true understanding of other peoples, needless strife will exist between groups of humans that could otherwise peacefully co-exist. That is my only point. Fireworks are going off all around my house and I'm damn proud to be an American. I love what this country stands for. I tear up at the national anthem, every damn time. Does being a "good" American require you to hate and feel superior to other groups of people? Why would they want to be American if that were the case?

broncocalijohn
07-04-2011, 10:38 PM
You guys (Americans in general) go over that line when you stop talking up USA, and start pissing on any other country.

It is possible to brag up one thing without ****ting on another.

You can say how great things are without saying that everythign else sucks.

Which is why we up in Canada see you as the loud obnoxious neighbour. Tone it down a little bit, because you really are good people.

Dont get me wrong, I love the USA, I love it even more now that i get 5% discount on everything, between florida, myrtle beach, and ohio (kings island, and cedar point) i choose to spend almost all of my vacation time in the USA.
Just shut up and make us a ham samwich... or canadian bacon sammwich.

Mogulseeker
07-04-2011, 10:39 PM
Not true, and not true. Edison didn't really invent much, but he was very good at hiring brilliant people and taking credit for their work. He obtained the patents for the light bulb by buying them from the widows of other inventors, "partnering" with other scientists and buying out their shares, and having any patent originating from his employees made out in his personal name. He was an incredible businessman, but not such a great scientist.

Let me ask you something... who came out on top?

Mogulseeker
07-04-2011, 10:40 PM
My point was not directed at America, but at human nature in general. Japanese, German, Chinese... whatever. It is human nature to reject/fear/deride that which you don't understand. A microcosm of human nature can be found in warring chimp tribes. You look out for you and your own and **** everyone else. Until humans can move beyond this, (and I myself am no where near it), and develop a true understanding of other peoples, needless strife will exist between groups of humans that could otherwise peacefully co-exist. That is my only point. Fireworks are going off all around my house and I'm damn proud to be an American. I love what this country stands for. I tear up at the national anthem, every damn time. Does being a "good" American require you to hate and feel superior to other groups of people? Why would they want to be American if that were the case?

OP was referring to Canadian snobbery... I initially meant that as a defense of American culture and not necessarily to be nationalistic. The headline was a little much.

Houshyamama
07-04-2011, 10:44 PM
OP was referring to Canadian snobbery... I initially meant that as a defense of American culture and not necessarily to be nationalistic. The headline was a little much.

Bro, absolutely nothing wrong with being proud of your country. :strong:

cutthemdown
07-04-2011, 11:00 PM
My point was not directed at America, but at human nature in general. Japanese, German, Chinese... whatever. It is human nature to reject/fear/deride that which you don't understand. A microcosm of human nature can be found in warring chimp tribes. You look out for you and your own and **** everyone else. Until humans can move beyond this, (and I myself am no where near it), and develop a true understanding of other peoples, needless strife will exist between groups of humans that could otherwise peacefully co-exist. That is my only point. Fireworks are going off all around my house and I'm damn proud to be an American. I love what this country stands for. I tear up at the national anthem, every damn time. Does being a "good" American require you to hate and feel superior to other groups of people? Why would they want to be American if that were the case?

You probably like star trek huh? :) Oh and I don't think we should hate any country but ones who outright attack us. Friendly relationships, open borders, should be the goal of all the world. No reason for war, we need to work together to secure enough resources so we all can live a decent life. But until we invent replicators not sure we can. :)

Houshyamama
07-04-2011, 11:20 PM
You probably like star trek huh? :) Oh and I don't think we should hate any country but ones who outright attack us. Friendly relationships, open borders, should be the goal of all the world. No reason for war, we need to work together to secure enough resources so we all can live a decent life. But until we invent replicators not sure we can. :)

Ha, never been a Trekkie but I get your point. And as for the bolded part of your quote, that was what I was getting at in my original post. Cheers, time to finish watching the fireworks.

Kaylore
07-05-2011, 12:32 AM
I love how the lefties can't celebrate anything good about America even on her birthday. It's like can you once a year get off your "unless America is always doing everything right (as we see it) we can't give it any kind of props because that's too 'nationalist' and "jingoistic'" soap box for the fourth of July?

You guys suck.

Really.

StugotsIII
07-05-2011, 12:36 AM
I love when non Americans get their panties in a twist when an American takes pride in his country.

I don't care what anyone says, this country is the best place to live on Earth. Are things perfect? No...but I wouldn't trade it for anything

Perry1977
07-05-2011, 12:38 AM
Back to the Soviets and Americans in WWII:

80% of Soviet males born in 1923 did not survive WWII. Crazy! So yeah, it was a zerg. They ground the blitzkrieg to a halt and stonewalled the German advance. The Soviets destroyed morale and munched up German resources.

The Americans destroyed German infrastructure and the country's ability to wage war with a relentless bombing campaign. So they did in fact have a lot to do with breaking Germany.

However, the fact that Germany was fighting on two fronts had a lot to do with it as well. If Hitler didn't screw up and change the Luftwaffe's mission in the Battle of Britain, then the U.S. wouldn't have had bases to launch from.

DHallblows
07-05-2011, 01:12 AM
I love how the lefties can't celebrate anything good about America even on her birthday. It's like can you once a year get off your "unless America is always doing everything right (as we see it) we can't give it any kind of props because that's too 'nationalist' and "jingoistic'" soap box for the fourth of July?

You guys suck.

Really.

::)

enjolras
07-05-2011, 01:54 AM
However, the fact that Germany was fighting on two fronts had a lot to do with it as well. If Hitler didn't screw up and change the Luftwaffe's mission in the Battle of Britain, then the U.S. wouldn't have had bases to launch from.

The U.S. had northern Africa which would have been suitable for opening up a second front (albeit more difficult logistically). I think either way the outcome was the same.... it would have just taken quite a bit longer to get that second front truly opened up.

MagicHef
07-05-2011, 02:06 AM
Let me ask you something... who came out on top?

Between who? Edison and the people he screwed over? Obviously Edison. Why?

epicSocialism4tw
07-05-2011, 02:24 AM
My point was not directed at America, but at human nature in general. Japanese, German, Chinese... whatever. It is human nature to reject/fear/deride that which you don't understand. A microcosm of human nature can be found in warring chimp tribes. You look out for you and your own and **** everyone else. Until humans can move beyond this, (and I myself am no where near it), and develop a true understanding of other peoples, needless strife will exist between groups of humans that could otherwise peacefully co-exist. That is my only point. Fireworks are going off all around my house and I'm damn proud to be an American. I love what this country stands for. I tear up at the national anthem, every damn time. Does being a "good" American require you to hate and feel superior to other groups of people? Why would they want to be American if that were the case?

There's alot of assumption in there. Nationalism is not mutually inclusive with what you have called "hatred" for another country. One can be perfectly happy about other cultures and be proud of their own at the same time.

As for the "shiny happy people holding hands" philosophy, it is absolutely impossible. It would require a uniform international language, political philosophy, religious philosophy, moral philosophy, and ethical philosophy. It would also require adherence to moral and ethical standards across the board for every person in the world. Its impossible. People by nature are prone to mistakes, disagreements, and downright evil.

Where we are right now with US culture and media permeating to many parts of the world is about as close as that gets. Even then you see the culture clash and the clashes of many different types of interests, leading to enmity and strife.

World peace is 100% impossible. How do we know this? Because Americans and Westerners in general are just about the only people who want it.

MagicHef
07-05-2011, 02:39 AM
By the way, I don't want my anti-Edison stance to be read as an anti-American stance. America is an amazing country, and has truly changed the world for the better. For instance, when Jefferson was elected and took over power from Adams, it was the first time in recorded history that political enemies swapped power peacefully. In today's world, it isn't an uncommon occurance.

ol#7
07-05-2011, 02:39 AM
I run into anti-American sentiment all the time. My Greek GF used to be pretty anti-American as well. Europeans in general have a real missunderstanding about what the avg American is all about (according to that Greek GF, I am an above avg American...) They tend to think we are all warmongering, profiteering, illiterate fat people. Until they sit down and talk with someone from the US, many truly dont know that we just want to get along, appreciate their culture and history and are happy to be here. We value our families, good friends, food and drink, and just want to have a good time and have people like us. Sometimes they are truly confused why I dont fit their preconcieved stereotype. Changing 1 mind at a time!

UberBroncoMan
07-05-2011, 02:57 AM
We rule!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity

I'd eat Japanese every day if I could afford it.

BTW America ****ing rocks the modern era.

I will say that Edison was a douche and Tesla got ****ed.

epicSocialism4tw
07-05-2011, 03:15 AM
I run into anti-American sentiment all the time. My Greek GF used to be pretty anti-American as well. Europeans in general have a real missunderstanding about what the avg American is all about (according to that Greek GF, I am an above avg American...) They tend to think we are all warmongering, profiteering, illiterate fat people. Until they sit down and talk with someone from the US, many truly dont know that we just want to get along, appreciate their culture and history and are happy to be here. We value our families, good friends, food and drink, and just want to have a good time and have people like us. Sometimes they are truly confused why I dont fit their preconcieved stereotype. Changing 1 mind at a time!

Other people have stereotypes too. And they all arent as critical of stereotypes as Americans are.

The major problem I have with Americans is that many of them are too closed off to realize how unique our culture and political system are. All you have to do is to spend some time in other cultures to see just how special our own culture is. Not everyone thinks that racism is bad (for example: they use derogatory names for just about every race and mixed race in Mexico, and Mexicans resist immigrants from Central America vigorously; certain middle eastern races hate the jews; anti-black racism is still a problem in Scotland and other European countries). Not everyone believes in free speech (Canada, Mexico, Russia, China, Venezuela, Cuba, etc, all will imprison and/or censure people for breaking speech regulations). Not everyone believes in the free practice of religion (this is true in many countries). Not everyone believes in international benevolence (India, China, Saudi Arabia, etc). Not everyone believes in universal access to education, not everyone encourages entrepreneurship, not everyone encourages climbing the social ladder, not everyone encourages womens rights, not everyone encourages political involvement...

The list goes on and on.

Its important that people realize just how unique our situation is here in America, to appreciate what we have, and to ultimately make sure that were passing it on to our children.

chadta
07-05-2011, 03:44 AM
Seriously though Chadta, if something horrible happened to Canada, what country do you think would be right there first to help out? You know it the USA. We may be brash to the point of being obnoxious, but we also have bravery, courage, and generosity coming out the ears.

Yeah i know, thats why i am generally one of the first ones to get in on the thanking the American troops threads, while not directly fighting for me, i realize that i get alot of benefits from their actions, and i truly do appreciate them.

See in your attempt to just try and make a point that sometimes America is too cocky you imply we are big mouths. That's the sort of thing we are defensive about. Also if you think your security isn't enhanced by being our ally, our neighbor, you are kidding yourself.

First part, that was 100% on purpose, second i never said it isn't enhanced, i said it wasn't solely dependent, one would have to be quite stupid to think that because you have a bigger brother you don't have an easier time of it in as far as bullys are concerned.


The best think Canada has going for it is easy access to American markets, and the fact you don't have to worry about security.

I don't know about the best thing, but those are both very good things.

you guys rock, just tone it down a little

The Joker
07-05-2011, 04:07 AM
I'm a non-American and I think the US is absolutely great.

Both times I've been there have been great, love the culture and people in general are very friendly.

A big part of why America gets a bad rep from some people is that a lot of the Americans who leave tend to be absolute nutcases. I'm living and working in Korea at the moment and the number of truly psychotic people from the US I've encountered is amazing. I've gotten some back story on a few of them and without exception they're the kind of people who HAD to leave their own homes, in search of a "fresh start". And while I've met many more Americans who are sane, friendly people, the ones who randomly snap and attack innocent people with pool cues tend to be the ones who get noticed more.

Also you get some problems with US marines and army over here, seems they get a few days leave and just proceed to piss off everyone who comes within fifty feet of them. I can understand you need to blow off steam, but a lot of them can be douches about it.

Kaylore
07-05-2011, 06:52 AM
I'm a non-American and I think the US is absolutely great.

Both times I've been there have been great, love the culture and people in general are very friendly.

A big part of why America gets a bad rep from some people is that a lot of the Americans who leave tend to be absolute nutcases. I'm living and working in Korea at the moment and the number of truly psychotic people from the US I've encountered is amazing. I've gotten some back story on a few of them and without exception they're the kind of people who HAD to leave their own homes, in search of a "fresh start". And while I've met many more Americans who are sane, friendly people, the ones who randomly snap and attack innocent people with pool cues tend to be the ones who get noticed more.

Also you get some problems with US marines and army over here, seems they get a few days leave and just proceed to piss off everyone who comes within fifty feet of them. I can understand you need to blow off steam, but a lot of them can be douches about it.

Yeah the Americans I met in Korea were mostly teaching English were either really weird or really creepy. You throw in the soldiers who can have their moments and I could understand why people might take issue. You don't even factor the tourists, who can be really terrible ambassadors of idiocy. My favorite are the ones who believe if they talk louder other people will magically understand their English. I know if someone would just speak German really loud to me, I would be able to understand it perfectly with 0 lessons.

jhns
07-05-2011, 07:46 AM
The United States is the greatest empire ever. We are superior to everyone else and they only hate because they know this.

woodall
07-05-2011, 08:18 AM
If you don't want controversy, don't beg for it.

Pot meet Kettle.

TheReverend
07-05-2011, 08:52 AM
Classless complaints about the US on the worst day of the year to make them.

Wouldve banned all the eurotrash and canadian filth on the spot.

Smiling Assassin27
07-05-2011, 08:53 AM
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/D8Q1fDf0GeY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Irish Stout
07-05-2011, 11:23 AM
I love how the lefties can't celebrate anything good about America even on her birthday. It's like can you once a year get off your "unless America is always doing everything right (as we see it) we can't give it any kind of props because that's too 'nationalist' and "jingoistic'" soap box for the fourth of July?

You guys suck.

Really.

WTF are you talking dude? The people picking out the issues with the OP seem to mostly be from other countries.

Lefties love America too. God bless the USA!

And for our atheist brethren, Giant Spaghetti Monster bless the USA!

Willynowei
07-05-2011, 01:40 PM
America is the jock in the classroom that gets all the chicks and rocks the cocky smile. As evidenced by some of the posts in this thread, Europe is the social reject in the corner of the class who has to constantly talk **** at others to feel good about themselves.

Seriously, as much as this country is sinking, its still rich and powerful enough for its citizens to not give a ****. Love it don't you? To be born in America is truly to have won the lottery of life. ;-)

Requiem
07-05-2011, 03:36 PM
Dude, just so you know... You don't make sense 90% of the time.

Too funny.

America is an awesome place. I've only been elsewhere to our brothers up north, though too young to remember.

Our country is so unique and so vast. I love a lot of things about our country. The thing that makes it sad are the divisive political atmosphere (which happens a lot of places) and how dog eat dog a lot of people can be, not only to others outside the U.S., but even their own brethren.

Try and ignore the bad. I'm thankful every day I wake up that I'm secure, have a good life and the opportunity to make it better.

Hope everyone enjoyed the holiday!

Mogulseeker
07-05-2011, 09:07 PM
A few people mentioned arrogance... I didnt mean for that to be arrogant, more of a response to the Canadian/Swede comments about how much they depend on the US.

Archer81
07-05-2011, 11:29 PM
Honestly I could care less how other countries view me or my country. They have pride in where ever they come from; so do I. They dont have to love me. They dont have to like me. They can keep feeding into whatever stereotype they like. It does not change the reality of what the US is.

:Broncos:

Mogulseeker
07-06-2011, 09:32 PM
Also you get some problems with US marines and army over here, seems they get a few days leave and just proceed to piss off everyone who comes within fifty feet of them. I can understand you need to blow off steam, but a lot of them can be douches about it.

Yeah, I know this one all too well. Then again we're talking about 18-25 year olds here, first time away from home, around testosterone all day. Things will go down.