PDA

View Full Version : Von Miller exempt from the franchise tag?


GoHAM
06-28-2011, 10:05 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/27/brees-manning-hope-to-avoid-franchise-tag (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/27/brees-manning-hope-to-avoid-franchise-tag/)

Brees, Manning hope to avoid franchise tag in new CBA

Previously, we’ve speculated that the named plaintiffs in the Tom Brady class action could seek the same benefit that the named plaintiffs in the Reggie White class action received — a career exemption from the franchise tag.
...
Over the long haul, the biggest winner could be Broncos rookie linebacker Von Miller, who would sign his first contract knowing that, when it expires, it truly will expire.

Pretty smart by Von and his agent to add his name to the lawsuit, but sucky for us.

TheReverend
06-28-2011, 10:06 AM
I wasn't aware that there was a precedent for that.

Repped for cool information.

cmhargrove
06-28-2011, 10:23 AM
Interesting tidbit, but in the end it always seems best to work out your contracts with superstars early, rather than tagging them. I guess for the team, it at least gives leverage and an additional time period to work out a trade.

There may be some precedent for this, but it doesn't necessarily guarantee it will happen. Those are a few high profile team leaders listed as plaintiffs, and it could cause some havoc in the future.


I want to see Miller go to his first couple pro-bowls before I worry about the franchise tag being an issue - but this was an interesting find, thanks for posting.

Beantown Bronco
06-28-2011, 10:29 AM
I'm sure this was at least part of the reason why the transition tag was created. I assume the exemption would only be for the franchise tag and not the transition tag as well.

BroncoMan4ever
06-28-2011, 11:03 AM
teams with intelligent money minds know how to ensure re-signing their star players is all but a certainty. just because he is exempt from potential use of the franchise tag, just means we need to work on long term deals. i prefer that to the franchise tag.

cutthemdown
06-28-2011, 11:55 AM
No it would suck not having the tag available. No way to sugarcoat that.

bowtown
06-28-2011, 11:55 AM
Mock would have already been furious that we didn't have his contract extended and locked down yet, and that we've made no waves in the FA market yet.

boltaneer
06-28-2011, 12:20 PM
If this happens, it will hurt the Chargers a lot, since Vincent Jackson received the franchise tag for this year.

He'll walk and it's too late to put the tag on a number of other free agents that might walk as well, mainly Weddle.

Pick Six
06-28-2011, 12:23 PM
Hopefully, Von plays like he earned a franchise tag. It would be great if he was that valuable to the organization...:strong:

TheReverend
06-28-2011, 12:38 PM
If this happens, it will hurt the Chargers a lot, since Vincent Jackson received the franchise tag for this year.

He'll walk and it's too late to put the tag on a number of other free agents that might walk as well, mainly Weddle.

The article is saying that the NAMED PLAINTIFFS could receive the tag exemption, not NFL wide.

boltaneer
06-28-2011, 12:56 PM
The article is saying that the NAMED PLAINTIFFS could receive the tag exemption, not NFL wide.

Vincent Jackson is one of the plaintiffs.

My point was that if Jackson becomes exempt from the tag, the Chargers will have wasted it on him when there are so many Charger players that are about to become free agents, whom they could have used the tag on instead.

maher_tyler
06-28-2011, 04:22 PM
So only certain players can be put into this category?? If anyone could do it, why wouldn't everyone??

Doggcow
06-28-2011, 04:41 PM
Vincent Jackson is one of the plaintiffs.

My point was that if Jackson becomes exempt from the tag, the Chargers will have wasted it on him when there are so many Charger players that are about to become free agents, whom they could have used the tag on instead.

Wouldn't they get their tag back if that's the case?

bowtown
06-28-2011, 04:47 PM
I don't buy it. I heard Tom Brady loves getting tagged by football teams.

FireFly
06-28-2011, 05:51 PM
If it were applied to some players I don't see how it wouldn't end up being applied to all and that would be bad for teams.

The franchise tag gives teams time to work something out. If balances out the leverage.

With tag available at end of contract:

Team: Here is our offer...
Player: No way fool! I want more money
Team: You're tagged
Player: I'll hold out!

(Then the two parties work something out, trade/contract)

No Tag:

Team: Here is our offer...
Player: No way fool! I want more money, I'm out here!
Team: Please stay :(
Player: (signs for another team)

It would mean that the top players in the league would be far less likely to have long careers with the one team. Hard on fans when your favorite players keep leaving :(

BroncoMan4ever
06-28-2011, 06:13 PM
No it would suck not having the tag available. No way to sugarcoat that.

who does this team currently have that is worth the use of the franchise tag or the transition tag? without use of the tag we will more than likely have about 4 years to come up with a package that would be enticing enough for him to want to stay. now we will see more often contracts beginning to be worked on between agents and franchises earlier than they are now. no longer will you often see situations like Champ's where he is basically brought back at zero hour. instead you will see teams working on new deals when there is still a year left on a players previous deal

i am not too worried about this. this franchise doesn't really use the tags often anyway.

cutthemdown
06-28-2011, 06:58 PM
who does this team currently have that is worth the use of the franchise tag or the transition tag? without use of the tag we will more than likely have about 4 years to come up with a package that would be enticing enough for him to want to stay. now we will see more often contracts beginning to be worked on between agents and franchises earlier than they are now. no longer will you often see situations like Champ's where he is basically brought back at zero hour. instead you will see teams working on new deals when there is still a year left on a players previous deal

i am not too worried about this. this franchise doesn't really use the tags often anyway.

It would only apply to Miller as he is a names plaintiff in the case. Its same thing that happened with reggie white back in the day. Worst case scenario in 4 yrs we cant tag miller. We would still have tag for anyone else though.

FireFly
06-28-2011, 07:27 PM
who does this team currently have that is worth the use of the franchise tag or the transition tag? without use of the tag we will more than likely have about 4 years to come up with a package that would be enticing enough for him to want to stay. now we will see more often contracts beginning to be worked on between agents and franchises earlier than they are now. no longer will you often see situations like Champ's where he is basically brought back at zero hour. instead you will see teams working on new deals when there is still a year left on a players previous deal

i am not too worried about this. this franchise doesn't really use the tags often anyway.

This is because, as you say, we haven't really had anyone that it was worth using it on in recent years!

Quoydogs
06-28-2011, 07:38 PM
This is because, as you say, we haven't really had anyone that it was worth using it on in recent years!

Tebow, I know flame away.

boltaneer
06-28-2011, 07:43 PM
Wouldn't they get their tag back if that's the case?

No, the deadline to apply the franchise tag was way back in march or so.

ozomulsion
06-28-2011, 08:03 PM
If Miller turns out to be good enough to warrant
a franchise tag, whether or not it's actually available
for him doesn't matter.

It would mean we rocked that No.2 pick, and that's
all I really care about on this subject.

The Joker
06-28-2011, 08:38 PM
Wonder how the other players feel about this.

They're supposed to be representing all the players in the NFL, yet here they are looking to get special benefits for themselves. Seems a bit like they're abusing their position to me, but whatever.

BroncoMan4ever
06-28-2011, 09:36 PM
This is because, as you say, we haven't really had anyone that it was worth using it on in recent years!

i can't even remember the last player we had that we put the tag on.

but with that in mind, typically this franchise is pretty good at getting its own players re-signed. look at Champ. McDaniels pissed him off. he hasn't sniffed the playoffs for the majority of his tenure here, yet this team was still capable of bringing him back for 4 more years at a deal that is really below what he could have commanded on the open market.

typically once players have played for Denver they tend to want to stay. and i look at it this way with Miller. if he shows he is a guy you want around for several more years after his rookie deal, more than likely the team will begin working on a new deal for him before the final year of his rookie contract expires.

SoCalBronco
06-28-2011, 09:54 PM
Mock would have already been furious that we didn't have his contract extended and locked down yet, and that we've made no waves in the FA market yet.

I said from Day 1 that this was one of the 3 worst teams in the league and you clowns laughed it off, so what else is new? Look, if you think Bowlen isn't praying for an excuse not to pay this kid in a couple years, I don't know what to tell you. He's tighter than Scrooge McDuck. Beezer is chewing at his tail at the utter absurdity of this FO. This site is literally unreal. The man rolls into a ball. What part of that escapes you? HTF do you think the derivatives were controlled then, jackass? Mock cried for a DT, but apparently the powers that be think that cocaine is for kids under 12. Mock's great uncle slapped Hitler in the face in WW2, but you think Xanders knows more than me? I was a stock broker for 35 years, asswipe. I've got Tomas Kaberle on speed dial so bl0w me.

If we win more than 5 games next year, I'll eat my hat. But go on...keep sucking this team off. You jumped on the homer train all the way to 4-12 last year. Moron. Mock's kittens would never put up with this incompetence. I'm not remotely surprised that Edmonton is a frozen hell hole...after all, the old man is from there. Even Mike Bell knows this...but you're pretending that you're something special. STFU. I said at the time that Wink's dye shirts were a red flag, but what do I know. Hillis just got into the endzone again, if your keeping score. Sit down and shutup. But Von Miller and Tebow are going to save the day, right?

Pollyanna.

You need a healthy dose of WD-40. Go put on a dunce cap.

bowtown
06-28-2011, 10:04 PM
I said from Day 1 that this was one of the 3 worst teams in the league and you clowns laughed it off, so what else is new? Look, if you think Bowlen isn't praying for an excuse not to pay this kid in a couple years, I don't know what to tell you. He's tighter than Scrooge McDuck. Beezer is chewing at his tail at the utter absurdity of this FO. This site is literally unreal. The man rolls into a ball. What part of that escapes you? HTF do you think the derivatives were controlled then, jackass? Mock cried for a DT, but apparently the powers that be think that cocaine is for kids under 12. Mock's great uncle slapped Hitler in the face in WW2, but you think Xanders knows more than me? I was a stock broker for 35 years, asswipe. I've got Tomas Kaberle on speed dial so bl0w me.

If we win more than 5 games next year, I'll eat my hat. But go on...keep sucking this team off. You jumped on the homer train all the way to 4-12 last year. Moron. Mock's kittens would never put up with this incompetence. I'm not remotely surprised that Edmonton is a frozen hell hole...after all, the old man is from there. Even Mike Bell knows this...but you're pretending that you're something special. STFU. I said at the time that Wink's dye shirts were a red flag, but what do I know. Hillis just got into the endzone again, if your keeping score. Sit down and shutup. But Von Miller and Tebow are going to save the day, right?

Pollyanna.

You need a healthy dose of WD-40. Go put on a dunce cap.

Ha!ROFL!:spit:

schaaf
06-28-2011, 10:06 PM
This **** got real

ozomulsion
06-28-2011, 11:52 PM
I said from Day 1 that this was one of the 3 worst teams in the league and you clowns laughed it off, so what else is new? Look, if you think Bowlen isn't praying for an excuse not to pay this kid in a couple years, I don't know what to tell you. He's tighter than Scrooge McDuck. Beezer is chewing at his tail at the utter absurdity of this FO. This site is literally unreal. The man rolls into a ball. What part of that escapes you? HTF do you think the derivatives were controlled then, jackass? Mock cried for a DT, but apparently the powers that be think that cocaine is for kids under 12. Mock's great uncle slapped Hitler in the face in WW2, but you think Xanders knows more than me? I was a stock broker for 35 years, asswipe. I've got Tomas Kaberle on speed dial so bl0w me.

If we win more than 5 games next year, I'll eat my hat. But go on...keep sucking this team off. You jumped on the homer train all the way to 4-12 last year. Moron. Mock's kittens would never put up with this incompetence. I'm not remotely surprised that Edmonton is a frozen hell hole...after all, the old man is from there. Even Mike Bell knows this...but you're pretending that you're something special. STFU. I said at the time that Wink's dye shirts were a red flag, but what do I know. Hillis just got into the endzone again, if your keeping score. Sit down and shutup. But Von Miller and Tebow are going to save the day, right?

Pollyanna.

You need a healthy dose of WD-40. Go put on a dunce cap.

So.. You're going with 9-7 this season? :dummy:

This season is gonna be tough. It feels like Bowlen turned
us into the Browns. Tebow will save us in the end. Maybe

SoCalBronco
06-29-2011, 12:26 AM
So.. You're going with 9-7 this season? :dummy:

This season is gonna be tough. It feels like Bowlen turned
us into the Browns. Tebow will save us in the end. Maybe

Nah...I was just doing an impression of Mock since bowtown mentioned him. I miss Mock. :(

Speaking seriously, I suspect we'll probably be somewhere below 8-8. There are still alot of holes in the roster. There's a big hole at RT with Harris leaving. It will take several years for Franklin to become a pro RT, if ever. He'll be a fine guard, though. He's got a long way to go to be a tackle...especially a blind side tackle for a left handed QB. I expect improvement from Zane Beadles and I think he'll hold down RT this year. I'm very encouraged by the three games we saw with Tebow. I believe in Tebow and I know he has been working hard to get better. I think he said he takes like 1000 dropbacks a day or something. He'll get there...by pure effort and determination alone. Denver will need an upgrade in the backfield. Moreno has yet to prove he can be reliable and consistent. His running style irritates me. He jukes too much, even when he's got a hole in front of him. The constant dancing is alot more bothersome than the lack of breakaway speed, although that doesnt help either. Wide Reciever is an interesting proposition. I hope Royal can get back to his 2008 form, but we'll see. He just doesnt seem to fit this style of offense. I'd hope McCoy and the staff would go back and look and what types of plays accentuated his strengths under Shanny and try to incorporate some of that. He's too important a playmaker to try to fit him into something else...especially when Thomas is injured and the rest of the recieving corps has some issues. I hope to see Decker make a move possibly into the Top 3. There's a big question as to Lloyd re: whether he was a McD creation or is independently legit. McCoy purportedly will keep much of the same terminology, but one has to wonder whether the style of offense itself will change under a more conservative head coach like Fox. Tight End appears to be a disaster...I dont think you can count on projects right now. There's some pieces on offense, but there's still a ways to go.

Denver made a huge tactical error in ignoring DT entirely in the draft. I've never believed in BPA or any of that nonsense. We continually ignore that position and have to try and sign bargain basements or gamble on big contracts. At some point, you've got to draft and develop some young talent at the position. It's less risky and they've got incentive to play well so they can hit their second contract. FA is alot riskier. From all appearances, Denver appears to have their heart set on Brandon Mebane. But we're painted into a corner, here. I dont think the DT market outside of him is that stellar, so we either have to give him a way above market astronomical deal (never a great idea due to risk) or assume the risk of striking out and having to settle for garbage (as usual, rinse and repeat). This is not a cycle that's been proven to be productive, but we're repeating it and it sucks. Incidentally, even if Denver landed him, there's still that other DT spot. Putting some scrub in there isn't going to work as they'll just double Mebane and force the other guy to make plays. Denver needs 2 competent DTs...something that is asking alot going into FA. I feel confident about the DE's...Doom brings some pressure from the weakside and Ayers is a strong run defender on the strongside. Having Miller at Sam will probably help Ayers avoid double teams too so perhaps he'll have a slightly easier time as a pass rusher...although his fortay is against the run.

I'm very excited and encouraged by our upgrades at LB. Obviously, anytime you can have a superb athlete like DJ back at his natural position at WLB, that's a great benefit to the team. We'll get some sacks out of the Sam spot which is nice. Between Doom and Miller, I'm hoping for a combined 20 sacks. Irving will be an upgrade at MLB over guys like Haggan and Mays. I like our depth at CB if Cox can stay out of jail. I'm looking forward to seeing more of the Squid. I was impressed by Denver's commitment to improving the safety position. Moore should become a good pass defending safety in time and we haven't had one for a long time. We really need a baller back there that can pick off 4-6 balls a year. We need that badly and the expected improvment in pass rush should help that, too. Denver's defense is closer to being something nice than its offense, as we're just missing those DT's. That's a big part of it, but at least we've credibly addressed other areas.

Like most teams, our fate will be determined largely by FA at this point. We'll see what the staff can do in the uncharted waters of a new CBA. I'm willing to give Coach Fox some time, because he stepped into a huge mess. Bowlen and his butt buddy Ellis have presided over the utter destruction of the team and its going to take awhile to correct their **** ups. I applaud John Fox for being willing to try and turn it around. We'll see what he can do.

BroncoMan4ever
06-29-2011, 04:42 AM
It would only apply to Miller as he is a names plaintiff in the case. Its same thing that happened with reggie white back in the day. Worst case scenario in 4 yrs we cant tag miller. We would still have tag for anyone else though.

meaning the team will know his situation. our front office will know it won't be wise to wait until his contract expires to try and sign him to a new deal. meaning if the team feels he is worthy of a new deal, more than likely the team and his agent will begin to discuss a new deal after the 3rd year of his deal and have a full season to work something out.

BroncoMan4ever
06-29-2011, 05:00 AM
Nah...I was just doing an impression of Mock since bowtown mentioned him. I miss Mock. :(

Speaking seriously, I suspect we'll probably be somewhere below 8-8. There are still alot of holes in the roster. There's a big hole at RT with Harris leaving. It will take several years for Franklin to become a pro RT, if ever. He'll be a fine guard, though. He's got a long way to go to be a tackle...especially a blind side tackle for a left handed QB. I expect improvement from Zane Beadles and I think he'll hold down RT this year. I'm very encouraged by the three games we saw with Tebow. I believe in Tebow and I know he has been working hard to get better. I think he said he takes like 1000 dropbacks a day or something. He'll get there...by pure effort and determination alone. Denver will need an upgrade in the backfield. Moreno has yet to prove he can be reliable and consistent. His running style irritates me. He jukes too much, even when he's got a hole in front of him. The constant dancing is alot more bothersome than the lack of breakaway speed, although that doesnt help either. Wide Reciever is an interesting proposition. I hope Royal can get back to his 2008 form, but we'll see. He just doesnt seem to fit this style of offense. I'd hope McCoy and the staff would go back and look and what types of plays accentuated his strengths under Shanny and try to incorporate some of that. He's too important a playmaker to try to fit him into something else...especially when Thomas is injured and the rest of the recieving corps has some issues. I hope to see Decker make a move possibly into the Top 3. There's a big question as to Lloyd re: whether he was a McD creation or is independently legit. McCoy purportedly will keep much of the same terminology, but one has to wonder whether the style of offense itself will change under a more conservative head coach like Fox. Tight End appears to be a disaster...I dont think you can count on projects right now. There's some pieces on offense, but there's still a ways to go.

Denver made a huge tactical error in ignoring DT entirely in the draft. I've never believed in BPA or any of that nonsense. We continually ignore that position and have to try and sign bargain basements or gamble on big contracts. At some point, you've got to draft and develop some young talent at the position. It's less risky and they've got incentive to play well so they can hit their second contract. FA is alot riskier. From all appearances, Denver appears to have their heart set on Brandon Mebane. But we're painted into a corner, here. I dont think the DT market outside of him is that stellar, so we either have to give him a way above market astronomical deal (never a great idea due to risk) or assume the risk of striking out and having to settle for garbage (as usual, rinse and repeat). This is not a cycle that's been proven to be productive, but we're repeating it and it sucks. Incidentally, even if Denver landed him, there's still that other DT spot. Putting some scrub in there isn't going to work as they'll just double Mebane and force the other guy to make plays. Denver needs 2 competent DTs...something that is asking alot going into FA. I feel confident about the DE's...Doom brings some pressure from the weakside and Ayers is a strong run defender on the strongside. Having Miller at Sam will probably help Ayers avoid double teams too so perhaps he'll have a slightly easier time as a pass rusher...although his fortay is against the run.

I'm very excited and encouraged by our upgrades at LB. Obviously, anytime you can have a superb athlete like DJ back at his natural position at WLB, that's a great benefit to the team. We'll get some sacks out of the Sam spot which is nice. Between Doom and Miller, I'm hoping for a combined 20 sacks. Irving will be an upgrade at MLB over guys like Haggan and Mays. I like our depth at CB if Cox can stay out of jail. I'm looking forward to seeing more of the Squid. I was impressed by Denver's commitment to improving the safety position. Moore should become a good pass defending safety in time and we haven't had one for a long time. We really need a baller back there that can pick off 4-6 balls a year. We need that badly and the expected improvment in pass rush should help that, too. Denver's defense is closer to being something nice than its offense, as we're just missing those DT's. That's a big part of it, but at least we've credibly addressed other areas.

Like most teams, our fate will be determined largely by FA at this point. We'll see what the staff can do in the uncharted waters of a new CBA. I'm willing to give Coach Fox some time, because he stepped into a huge mess. Bowlen and his butt buddy Ellis have presided over the utter destruction of the team and its going to take awhile to correct their **** ups. I applaud John Fox for being willing to try and turn it around. We'll see what he can do.

coming out of college wasn't Royal drawing comparisons to Steve Smith? McCoy and Fox know how to get a receiver with Eddie's skill set involved in the game plan and use his talents.

I am not overly worried about the not drafting a DT or several in this past draft, because after the guys in the 1st round there wasn't really anyone who was going to make a big impact on the team. Why draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd round because he plays a position of need if he isn't going to upgrade the position? especially when you can get the best Safety in the draft or a potential MLB that had 1st round talent. I agree with BPA, and because of that, i believe we had one hell of a good draft. also, now with UFA being likely after 4 years in the league under the CBA, we won't necessarily need to be stuck with old stop gaps. potentially we can land good players who can help for several years.

i know the team looks to be in an incredibly dire state. but there are pieces that look like something that can be a strong foundation for this team. i truly believe in Tebow. he probably isn't going to be the prototypical NFL QB, but he will get the job done. Clady is still an important piece, because left handed or right handed at the QB position doesn't change the fact that most teams best pass rusher still comes off the left side. Kuper with some power lined up next to him will be all the better for it. Moreno while he has been a disappointment, I think he has the ability to be a 1000 yard rusher, especially with the return to the ZBS. we finally addressed the TE position. Green is going to be a steal of this draft. Decker is going to become a big part of this offense. look at our defense. we need DT badly, yes. but we suddenly have an abundance of LB that look like we can create a really good corps. also we addressed the safety position. we potentially got to long term starters in the defensive backfield. pass rushing, we now have potentially 3 badass options to rush the QB. Doom is going to be what he has always been. I honestly believe Miller is going to become the AFC version of Clay Mathews, and Ayers back to his natural position will pitch in a lot in the pass rushing.

this team may be a couple years away and a bunch of players away from being a contender, but i think Fox has it under control, and we are in good hands.

BroncoMan4ever
06-29-2011, 05:02 AM
So.. You're going with 9-7 this season? :dummy:

This season is gonna be tough. It feels like Bowlen turned
us into the Browns. Tebow will save us in the end. Maybe

well i have 2 possible directions i think the team will go this year. if we get a TC and preseason and Tebow wins the starting job, i think this team can go 9-7. but if TC and preseason are basically dumped, the team will start Orton because he has starting experience and the team will probably go 6-10.

ozomulsion
06-29-2011, 06:13 AM
Thanks for the rundown SoCal. :)

You covered the last area I wasn't fully informed on.
Our plan at DT. I didn't really want to know for obvious
reasons. I was amazed on draft day when we didn't
address it at all. Finding out the plan by sifting through
the outrage on here didn't sound appealing.

Moreno has disappointed me to no end. I do think he has
a good chance at a breakout season. My reasons as to why
are simply because RB is the only position I can evaluate
with accuracy. Dismiss my opinions on Tatum. Ha! He did
not have the heart nor the fortitude to succeed.

The last time I saw a RB that I felt had the talent and NFL
skill set to succeed at a high level, and failed to do so in
the first 2 years, was DeAngelo Williams. We saw what happened
in his third season. I expect Moreno to come on in ways
that didn't seem realistic when watching him the last 2 years.
He needs to up his work ethic a little, and I see things
falling into place. Easier said than done, I understand.

Besides that I pretty much agree with your opinions of the
other players. Tebow is a machine built to win at the game
of football.

I'm excited about Moore, and the rest of our secondary. I too
hope Cox can stay out of jail. He has the skill set to be an all
Pro. It's exciting to have a duel pass rush again. The interceptions
that come along with a good pass rush will be a breath of fresh
air. It's too bad we have to stop the run in order to reap those
benefits. I HOPE our WRs will work their way out. Plenty of
talent there. Bla bla. Now I'm just reiterating what you already said.

Beantown Bronco
06-29-2011, 07:21 AM
I am not overly worried about the not drafting a DT or several in this past draft, because after the guys in the 1st round there wasn't really anyone who was going to make a big impact on the team. Why draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd round because he plays a position of need if he isn't going to upgrade the position?

Ummmm, check the current Broncos depth chart. They literally don't even have enough DTs to field a complete unit for an entire game. By definition, any warm body would be an upgrade over nothing.

TheReverend
06-29-2011, 07:55 AM
Vincent Jackson is one of the plaintiffs.

My point was that if Jackson becomes exempt from the tag, the Chargers will have wasted it on him when there are so many Charger players that are about to become free agents, whom they could have used the tag on instead.

Woops. I didn't know that. Repped for correcting.

TheReverend
06-29-2011, 08:49 AM
Nah...I was just doing an impression of Mock since bowtown mentioned him. I miss Mock. :(

Speaking seriously, I suspect we'll probably be somewhere below 8-8. There are still alot of holes in the roster. There's a big hole at RT with Harris leaving. It will take several years for Franklin to become a pro RT, if ever. He'll be a fine guard, though. He's got a long way to go to be a tackle...especially a blind side tackle for a left handed QB. I expect improvement from Zane Beadles and I think he'll hold down RT this year. I'm very encouraged by the three games we saw with Tebow. I believe in Tebow and I know he has been working hard to get better. I think he said he takes like 1000 dropbacks a day or something. He'll get there...by pure effort and determination alone. Denver will need an upgrade in the backfield. Moreno has yet to prove he can be reliable and consistent. His running style irritates me. He jukes too much, even when he's got a hole in front of him. The constant dancing is alot more bothersome than the lack of breakaway speed, although that doesnt help either. Wide Reciever is an interesting proposition. I hope Royal can get back to his 2008 form, but we'll see. He just doesnt seem to fit this style of offense. I'd hope McCoy and the staff would go back and look and what types of plays accentuated his strengths under Shanny and try to incorporate some of that. He's too important a playmaker to try to fit him into something else...especially when Thomas is injured and the rest of the recieving corps has some issues. I hope to see Decker make a move possibly into the Top 3. There's a big question as to Lloyd re: whether he was a McD creation or is independently legit. McCoy purportedly will keep much of the same terminology, but one has to wonder whether the style of offense itself will change under a more conservative head coach like Fox. Tight End appears to be a disaster...I dont think you can count on projects right now. There's some pieces on offense, but there's still a ways to go.

Denver made a huge tactical error in ignoring DT entirely in the draft. I've never believed in BPA or any of that nonsense. We continually ignore that position and have to try and sign bargain basements or gamble on big contracts. At some point, you've got to draft and develop some young talent at the position. It's less risky and they've got incentive to play well so they can hit their second contract. FA is alot riskier. From all appearances, Denver appears to have their heart set on Brandon Mebane. But we're painted into a corner, here. I dont think the DT market outside of him is that stellar, so we either have to give him a way above market astronomical deal (never a great idea due to risk) or assume the risk of striking out and having to settle for garbage (as usual, rinse and repeat). This is not a cycle that's been proven to be productive, but we're repeating it and it sucks. Incidentally, even if Denver landed him, there's still that other DT spot. Putting some scrub in there isn't going to work as they'll just double Mebane and force the other guy to make plays. Denver needs 2 competent DTs...something that is asking alot going into FA. I feel confident about the DE's...Doom brings some pressure from the weakside and Ayers is a strong run defender on the strongside. Having Miller at Sam will probably help Ayers avoid double teams too so perhaps he'll have a slightly easier time as a pass rusher...although his fortay is against the run.

I'm very excited and encouraged by our upgrades at LB. Obviously, anytime you can have a superb athlete like DJ back at his natural position at WLB, that's a great benefit to the team. We'll get some sacks out of the Sam spot which is nice. Between Doom and Miller, I'm hoping for a combined 20 sacks. Irving will be an upgrade at MLB over guys like Haggan and Mays. I like our depth at CB if Cox can stay out of jail. I'm looking forward to seeing more of the Squid. I was impressed by Denver's commitment to improving the safety position. Moore should become a good pass defending safety in time and we haven't had one for a long time. We really need a baller back there that can pick off 4-6 balls a year. We need that badly and the expected improvment in pass rush should help that, too. Denver's defense is closer to being something nice than its offense, as we're just missing those DT's. That's a big part of it, but at least we've credibly addressed other areas.

Like most teams, our fate will be determined largely by FA at this point. We'll see what the staff can do in the uncharted waters of a new CBA. I'm willing to give Coach Fox some time, because he stepped into a huge mess. Bowlen and his butt buddy Ellis have presided over the utter destruction of the team and its going to take awhile to correct their **** ups. I applaud John Fox for being willing to try and turn it around. We'll see what he can do.

Similar post from a couple years ago:

This is beyond stupid.

1. It dips trade leverage lower, if that's your true intention.

2. It pisses Cutler off more.

3. Mandatory camps are not far away. Why not chill the **** out and see if he reports? The timing of this is all ****ed up.

If they pull the trigger, the trade better come with the Steelers defense or we're ****ed for a long time.

People say we've got the support personnel in place for another QB, but we really don't...

Let's see how many sacks Clady gives up when the QB isn't bootlegging or taking a pro waggle in a good chunk of his drop backs because he has the ability to throw on the move, and the DE doesn't have to play read-contain.

Let's see how good Eddie Royal is when he has a QB that can't fire a game tying touchdown or game winning TD into roughly zero seperation.

Let's see how good Brandon Marshall can play bracket coverage, and under/overs with CB/S when the QB can't make that throw.

Let's see how good our running game is with Correll "I Hurt My Knee AGAIN!" Buckhalter, when his scrub ass is playing against 8+ in the box, AND we'll be doing less ZBS.

How many idiots can you stuff in one Dove Valley Front Office?

Someone grab the cobra. Let's roll.

bowtown
06-29-2011, 09:05 AM
Similar post from a couple years ago:

Number 3 was really long. That was almost like Peter King list.

cutthemdown
06-29-2011, 10:20 AM
If Miller turns out to be good enough to warrant
a franchise tag, whether or not it's actually available
for him doesn't matter.

It would mean we rocked that No.2 pick, and that's
all I really care about on this subject.

If he doesn't become that good and important the pick is a bust.

bowtown
06-29-2011, 10:38 AM
If he doesn't become that good and important the pick is a bust.

You don't say.

http://referralsincorporated.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/debbie-300x230.jpg

BroncoMan4ever
06-29-2011, 03:50 PM
Ummmm, check the current Broncos depth chart. They literally don't even have enough DTs to field a complete unit for an entire game. By definition, any warm body would be an upgrade over nothing.

bull**** any warm body is an upgrade. you draft guys in the 2nd and 3rd round that you believe can help this team for years to come. you don't draft a guy simply because he plays a position of need. doing that is why this team ended up with turds like Moss and Crowder.

with that in mind, does anyone anywhere truly expect this team to be a playoff contender or even a good team in 2011? No one does. because of that why load your roster with pieces that won't help long term with pieces that maybe would have helped in the present, when you can get pieces that will help for the next 5 years?

people need to chill the **** out about the DT not being addressed in the draft. we finally got a strong defensive mind controlling the team. things are going to work out. probably not in 2011 but in 2012 and the years following this team will be gearing up to return to the elite in the NFL.

Beantown Bronco
06-29-2011, 08:51 PM
Nowhere did I say that they should've taken a DT in the 2nd or 3rd round "just because." In fact, I'm very happy with their draft. They addressed positions of need with guys who are very talented and can start early on. There were no real head scratchers.

I'm solely arguing with the fact that a 2nd rounder in this draft WOULDN'T have been an upgrade to our current team. There's literally no way to credibly argue that when we only have one quasi-real starter signed right now and no depth at all.

Br0nc0Buster
06-29-2011, 09:24 PM
Cupboard was pretty bare on the defense
outside of DE, one could validate spending high picks on any other position

playing a lot of 4-3 under can help out our run defense, which I assume we will be doing plenty of that

honestly we need 3 FA DTs though
hopefully we can get Thomas back, maybe throw in Coefield or Mebane
and possibly take a shot at a UDFA
maybe the guy from Notre Dame

wouldnt call it a great lineup at that spot, but serviceable until we can bring in some youth in the next draft

If Von lives up to his pass rushing billing, our nickel defense should be something fierce though

SoCalBronco
06-29-2011, 09:43 PM
Ummmm, check the current Broncos depth chart. They literally don't even have enough DTs to field a complete unit for an entire game. By definition, any warm body would be an upgrade over nothing.

Yep...this is one of the reasons why BPA is an ultimate fail concept, especially in our situation. We have literally nothing at DT, so even if you take a kid in the 2nd or 3rd who has some flaws, its an instant improvement. And its just the right thing to do from a philosophical viewpoint, too. It's fundamentally a good idea to get an infusion of young talent into the system at that position and every position, really. Of the three methods of talent acquisition (Draft, FA, Trades), the draft is your best bet, because outside of the handful of picks at the very top, everyone else that is picked has to produce for a cheap salary. Not only does this help to insure against the risk of a bad selection, but it also motivates the pick to play well so he can earn that big 2nd contract. Additionally, generally young players have some upside that can be coached up, you can develop them. When you are getting a vet FA or trading for one, usually they've already hit their ceiling and unless they are a perfect system fit, you usually won't have the possibility of getting more than they've already shown. Additionally, they're already "fat" financially since the FA has gotten his new deal with the team or the traded player usually will sign a deal shortly thereafter with the new team, which removes some of the incentive to play hard (Haynesworth).

For whatever reason, Denver is simply unwilling to accept this belief system at least so far as DT's go and that's unacceptable. We must constantly strive to get young talent in at each position, especially DT. It gives us depth, it creates competition, it helps us with the cap. We missed an oppurtunity. There will never be the perfect DT that falls into our laps, so I dont want to hear that the guys in the later rounds had flaws. That's why we have coaches, to coach them up. If we're expecting some guy that seamlessly fits in without the need for development or coaching, I dont know why we need to pay a coaching staff. That's their ****ing job is to coach these guy's up and work on their game.

Tombstone RJ
06-30-2011, 01:45 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/27/brees-manning-hope-to-avoid-franchise-tag (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/27/brees-manning-hope-to-avoid-franchise-tag/)

Brees, Manning hope to avoid franchise tag in new CBA

Previously, we’ve speculated that the named plaintiffs in the Tom Brady class action could seek the same benefit that the named plaintiffs in the Reggie White class action received — a career exemption from the franchise tag.
...
Over the long haul, the biggest winner could be Broncos rookie linebacker Von Miller, who would sign his first contract knowing that, when it expires, it truly will expire.

Pretty smart by Von and his agent to add his name to the lawsuit, but sucky for us.

If I was the owner's I'd say "well alrighty then, your rook contract expires and you are an UFA. Congrats. To make it fair, we are going to insist that rookie contract lasts a full 5 years. Thanks!"