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oubronco
06-16-2011, 11:27 AM
Article is a little long but worth the read :thumbsup:

As a defensive back, Denver Broncos safety Renaldo Hill has seen it all.

By all, what I mean isn’t limited to the length of his career, although that is moving into its 11th year. Hill has seen the change in the modern game to ever-increasingly pass-oriented offenses which use more of the short pass as a staple of their approach. That movement (although some teams still predominatly use the longer, Coryell-type offensive passing strategy) has led to a need for the safeties - both strong and free safeties - to have coverage skills as well as to be strong hitters. The lines between the strong and the free safety are becoming blurred, as compared to the historical versions of those positions. Hill is a good example, since he began his career in 2001 as a cornerback with the Arizona Cardinals before sliding back to safety, where he’s quietly been highly effective ever since. Brian Dawkins has said that he and Hill tend to take turns quarterbacking the defense. Both are excellent at reading the offense and calling the responses.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/scouting-the-broncos-safeties

Cito Pelon
06-16-2011, 11:46 AM
Been a long time since Denver was known for their safeties. Denver used to have a proud tradition of stellar safeties. Having great safeties even with the rule changes is an important part of a defense.

Maybe we'll see the safety play step up in the next few years. Rahim Moore, McBath, Bruton, Carter, I hope for the best. McBath and Bruton certainly stepped up the ST play and contributed ok in backup roles.

bronco militia
06-16-2011, 11:49 AM
no offense to b-dawk and hill, but I don't think they make the final roster

alkemical
06-16-2011, 11:58 AM
One does, but not both.

TheReverend
06-16-2011, 12:01 PM
Article is a little long but worth the read :thumbsup:

As a defensive back, Denver Broncos safety Renaldo Hill has seen it all.

By all, what I mean isn’t limited to the length of his career, although that is moving into its 11th year. Hill has seen the change in the modern game to ever-increasingly pass-oriented offenses which use more of the short pass as a staple of their approach. That movement (although some teams still predominatly use the longer, Coryell-type offensive passing strategy) has led to a need for the safeties - both strong and free safeties - to have coverage skills as well as to be strong hitters. The lines between the strong and the free safety are becoming blurred, as compared to the historical versions of those positions. Hill is a good example, since he began his career in 2001 as a cornerback with the Arizona Cardinals before sliding back to safety, where he’s quietly been highly effective ever since. Brian Dawkins has said that he and Hill tend to take turns quarterbacking the defense. Both are excellent at reading the offense and calling the responses.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/scouting-the-broncos-safeties


http://i51.tinypic.com/5bb9dj.gif

Dr. Broncenstein
06-16-2011, 12:09 PM
That gif f--king rules.

Cmac821
06-16-2011, 12:09 PM
That is the greatest gif (excluding boob mojo ones of course)

Kaylore
06-16-2011, 02:34 PM
That is the greatest gif (excluding boob mojo ones of course)

It's a masterpiece. There are so many levels to peel back and appreciate. Example: The bearded drummer in the background that might be retarded.

Jetmeck
06-16-2011, 03:24 PM
Think Hill is gone............

gunns
06-16-2011, 04:33 PM
I am absolutely giddy about our new safeties. It took my boy coming back to FINALLY get some safeties, not 1 but 2!

cutthemdown
06-16-2011, 04:36 PM
Moore is one of those players I actually watched in college being that I am from LA. When I saw him the first time I thought man who is that guy covering so much ground, breaking up passes and picking the ball off. UCLA had a really crappy defense last yr though and it was tough for him. He was always chasing plays and rbs who ran wild through the front 7 etc. So he will be used to what Denver will be like :) i jest I jest I hope for better play. Moore will start this yr unless he gets injured, which he never did in college.

cutthemdown
06-16-2011, 04:37 PM
I am absolutely giddy about our new safeties. It took my boy coming back to FINALLY get some safeties, not 1 but 2!

Before draft when i was saying I wanted Moore I had people saying what an idiot I was, Broncos cant take safetys. I was like yeah but Dawkins old and all the other suck. Now everyone loves it. This board is fickle like a woman.

gunns
06-16-2011, 04:50 PM
Before draft when i was saying I wanted Moore I had people saying what an idiot I was, Broncos cant take safetys. I was like yeah but Dawkins old and all the other suck. Now everyone loves it. This board is fickle like a woman.

Hey I resent that last line, you stupid neanderthal male! It was a woman that's been screaming for a decent safety for 9 years. Me 8')

schaaf
06-16-2011, 05:04 PM
Only women bleed...

cutthemdown
06-16-2011, 05:58 PM
Hey I resent that last line, you stupid neanderthal male! It was a woman that's been screaming for a decent safety for 9 years. Me 8')

Then hopefully we were in harmony. I really think they were by far the worst unit on the field last yr. Sure there are only 2 at a time so it doesn't always stick out as much especially when you have Bailey who rarely needs a ton of help. I'll go back to scratching my ass and making grunting noises now.

Baba Booey
06-16-2011, 07:21 PM
I can see Dawkins retained for his leadership alone - and I still think he can contribute against the run.

ward63
06-16-2011, 09:33 PM
I can see Dawkins retained for his leadership alone - and I still think he can contribute against the run.

I was thinking the same exact thing. He would be a great tutor for Carter.

BroncoMan4ever
06-16-2011, 09:37 PM
no offense to b-dawk and hill, but I don't think they make the final roster

i say with the prolonged lockout the chances are extemely high that at the very least Dawkins makes the final roster. if not for playing ability but for the leadership he brings and the experience he can pass on to our new planned starters of the future.

Dawkins is not a guy you just cut. that is low class and looks bad on the franchise, and could have negative repurcussions in future years with FA contemplating whether or not to come to Denver.

montrose
06-16-2011, 10:17 PM
Obviously we haven't seen Moore and Carter yet but I actually think McBath is the best S on the roster - if he could just stay healthy.

Doggcow
06-16-2011, 11:24 PM
Obviously we haven't seen Moore and Carter yet but I actually think McBath is the best S on the roster - if he could just stay healthy.

He's the best on madden. Well since we cut barrett.

For what that's worth.

cutthemdown
06-17-2011, 12:25 AM
Obviously we haven't seen Moore and Carter yet but I actually think McBath is the best S on the roster - if he could just stay healthy.

I don't think much of any of the safetys Broncos already had. Dawkins and Hill pretty much over the hill, the rest seem more like bkups to me, including Mcbath.

cutthemdown
06-17-2011, 12:26 AM
He's the best on madden. Well since we cut barrett.

For what that's worth.

It's worth nothing really.

CEH
06-17-2011, 06:34 AM
I can see Dawkins retained for his leadership alone - and I still think he can contribute against the run.

Dawk is a great leader and role model but the NFL will find a way to exploit you big time if they know you have a weakness. Not really comfortable with Dawk on the field anymore. That first SD was downright scary to watch and we play them twice. With the quality TEs in the AFCW hard to think what might happen

barryr
06-17-2011, 11:47 AM
Hill will be gone IMO. He does not really offer much other than experience, but talent is worth more. Dawkins only stays to play mostly in running situations since he is too much a liability against the pass. McBath has another year to show what he can do and if he can stay healthy. If he gets hurt again and has to miss time, I donīt see the new regime having much patience with him. Bruton is very good on special teams, so that alone will give him a good chance to stick. Moore and Carter are the futures at the safety spots at the moment and may play a lot next year considering what is in front of them.

Cito Pelon
06-17-2011, 12:40 PM
I don't think much of any of the safetys Broncos already had. Dawkins and Hill pretty much over the hill, the rest seem more like bkups to me, including Mcbath.

Eh, McBath may still pan out. He's broken the same forearm twice getting hit by a helmet on the forearm while he's trying to make a tackle. Isn't that kind of a freak injury?

Whatever the case, the Broncos will have a logjam at safety with two rookies, two third year guys, one second year guy, and two vets. Three of them have to be cut to fit the numbers, maybe only two, depending on how they want to run the D. Dawkins should be cut, you don't keep a roster spot for a mentor. Either he can play or he can't, and Dawkins can't play anymore.

Kaylore
06-18-2011, 08:48 AM
I'm not ready to rule McBath out. One thing is clear, though. We have a lot of young talent at safety. If nothing else, at least we're deep there.

Hamrob
06-18-2011, 10:05 AM
DS and Atwater were the best tandom ever! Steve Foley was one of my favorites. He rarely gets mentioned anymore for his achievements. That guy was always around the ball making big plays. 43 int's I believe.

Hamrob
06-18-2011, 10:07 AM
Out of McBath, Moore and Carter. I like Carter the most. I think he has just as much talent of anyone out there...and he can deliver a blow. Moore is kind of a finesse safety and I question his ball hawking ability. Sure, he had one great year with 10 int's and then laid an egg his junior year...with 1.

cutthemdown
06-18-2011, 10:56 AM
Eh, McBath may still pan out. He's broken the same forearm twice getting hit by a helmet on the forearm while he's trying to make a tackle. Isn't that kind of a freak injury?

Whatever the case, the Broncos will have a logjam at safety with two rookies, two third year guys, one second year guy, and two vets. Three of them have to be cut to fit the numbers, maybe only two, depending on how they want to run the D. Dawkins should be cut, you don't keep a roster spot for a mentor. Either he can play or he can't, and Dawkins can't play anymore.

You are 100% correct. Hard to picture 3rd and 4th safety's on the broncos that aren't special teams guys, and guys who can run and play nickel packages etc etc. You wonder if Hill or Dawkins fits any of those things. Those guys may have to play so well early and be a starter if they make team. I doubt Dawkins and Hill have much value as backup safetys, where Mcbath and Bruton probably do because they are younger, can play special teams.

cutthemdown
06-18-2011, 10:57 AM
DS and Atwater were the best tandom ever! Steve Foley was one of my favorites. He rarely gets mentioned anymore for his achievements. That guy was always around the ball making big plays. 43 int's I believe.

Tyrone Braxton was a converted CB, sort of talked weird, was a little short, but he sure found a way to get around the ball a lot and make plays for Denver.

cutthemdown
06-18-2011, 10:58 AM
Also don't forget Mike Harden who was also a great safety for a lot of years in Denver. Well maybe not great but pretty good.

Cito Pelon
06-18-2011, 11:10 AM
DS and Atwater were the best tandom ever! Steve Foley was one of my favorites. He rarely gets mentioned anymore for his achievements. That guy was always around the ball making big plays. 43 int's I believe.

Foley is still the all-time INT leader for the Broncos. It's a little weird that Foley doesn't get respect. One of the great low round draft picks, 8th round, but still the all-time leader for INT's for the Broncs.

Foley was the RCB opposite LCB Louis Wright from 1976-1980, so O's were targeting him, much like O's have targeted the RCB opposite LCB Champ Bailey since he was acquired. Foley had 23 INT's when he was playing at RCB opposite Louis Wright. Then got another 21 INT's playing FS from 1981-1986.

Foley consistently made the plays required to make those Collier D's some of the best in NFL history from 1976-1986.

Cito Pelon
06-18-2011, 11:25 AM
Tyrone Braxton was a converted CB, sort of talked weird, was a little short, but he sure found a way to get around the ball a lot and make plays for Denver.

Braxton was a gamer for sure. He contributed well, made some big plays. 34 INT's for Denver, Dan Reeve's 12th round draft pick, 748 tackles, 4 INT TD's. Dude was a gamer.

Shananahan
06-18-2011, 12:23 PM
Moore is kind of a finesse safety and I question his ball hawking ability. Sure, he had one great year with 10 int's and then laid an egg his junior year...with 1.
You should read more about the defensive scheme and the change in what he was asked to do his final season. He didn't pick the ball off much as a junior, but I don't understand why you would question his ball skills due to that. You don't intercept ten passes in a season by being lucky all the time.

Cito Pelon
06-18-2011, 01:26 PM
Also don't forget Mike Harden who was also a great safety for a lot of years in Denver. Well maybe not great but pretty good.

Harden took over the RCB spot from Steve Foley opposite LCB Louis Wright and Foley moved to safety. Harden was RCB across from Wright from '83-'86 while Foley was at safety. Harden had 21 INT's at RCB opposite Louis Wright. After Foley retired in '86, Harden took over Foley's safety spot.

The RCB's opposite LCB Louis Wright had 48 INT's. Louis Wright is also underrated.

Billy Thompson was the previous stud at safety for the Broncos, 1969-1981. BT had 19 INT's from 1977-1981, Steve Foley 24 INT's from 1977-1981 as the RCB across from Louis Wright and transitioning into FS.

Joe Collier knew how to make a defense, dude had someone plugged in all the time to keep his D topnotch. At LB, at DB, at CB, at DT, at DE.

Joe Collier was a great one.

barryr
06-18-2011, 05:02 PM
The LB corp is key for any 3-4 defense to be successul and the Broncos back in the 70īs and 80īs while using that defense had some of the best LB corps in the NFL. If you also have good safeties, you really have a great defense and the Broncos have had some vey good ones in the past. But since Atwater left, the safety spots have not been very good and the last couple of years, while using the 3-4, the BroncosīLB corp has not been great either to say the least.

cutthemdown
06-18-2011, 05:17 PM
Braxton was a gamer for sure. He contributed well, made some big plays. 34 INT's for Denver, Dan Reeve's 12th round draft pick, 748 tackles, 4 INT TD's. Dude was a gamer.

He really was a little scrapper. He was always pawing at the ball, would let other broncos wrap a guy up then try to punch ball, he cherry picked in the secondary, baited people but he made it work. He had knack for the ball and was always, like you said, making a big play, grabbing a big interception.

cutthemdown
06-18-2011, 05:19 PM
Harden took over the RCB spot from Steve Foley opposite LCB Louis Wright and Foley moved to safety. Harden was RCB across from Wright from '83-'86 while Foley was at safety. Harden had 21 INT's at RCB opposite Louis Wright. After Foley retired in '86, Harden took over Foley's safety spot.

The RCB's opposite LCB Louis Wright had 48 INT's. Louis Wright is also underrated.

Billy Thompson was the previous stud at safety for the Broncos, 1969-1981. BT had 19 INT's from 1977-1981, Steve Foley 24 INT's from 1977-1981 as the RCB across from Louis Wright and transitioning into FS.

Joe Collier knew how to make a defense, dude had someone plugged in all the time to keep his D topnotch. At LB, at DB, at CB, at DT, at DE.

Joe Collier was a great one.

I remember Mike Harden being replaced by atwater, so at some point harden also switched to safety right? I actually remember him always being a safety, even when he went to Oakland for a yr or 2 late in career.

barryr
06-18-2011, 05:30 PM
I remember Mike Harden being replaced by atwater, so at some point harden also switched to safety right? I actually remember him always being a safety, even when he went to Oakland for a yr or 2 late in career.

Yes, Harden switched to safety later in his career. Like Foley, that was probably where he was best suited for.

cutthemdown
06-18-2011, 05:35 PM
Out of McBath, Moore and Carter. I like Carter the most. I think he has just as much talent of anyone out there...and he can deliver a blow. Moore is kind of a finesse safety and I question his ball hawking ability. Sure, he had one great year with 10 int's and then laid an egg his junior year...with 1.

This is classic look at the stats not watch the games. UCLA had no defense his JR yr and basically he was asked to play the run an awful lot. Also the pass rush was one of the worst in the pac 10, that also hurts int. He's a ball hawking type because he has high agility, and good speed, he's going to be a good player for the Broncos. Moore is sort of a drag down tackler, he needs to learn how to hit a bit more, but I doubt he gets a lot of penalties and is a play the ball first type thinker, which is good for todays NFL.

mhgaffney
06-19-2011, 12:29 PM
Hey I resent that last line, you stupid neanderthal male! It was a woman that's been screaming for a decent safety for 9 years. Me 8')

What!?

An uppety woman...

bronco militia
06-19-2011, 12:48 PM
Dawkins is not a guy you just cut. that is low class and looks bad on the franchise, and could have negative repurcussions in future years with FA contemplating whether or not to come to Denver.

what? all I said was that I don't think they make the final roster

MABroncoFan
06-19-2011, 07:41 PM
I remember Mike Harden being replaced by atwater, so at some point harden also switched to safety right? I actually remember him always being a safety, even when he went to Oakland for a yr or 2 late in career.

I thought when Foley retired, Tony Lilly replaced him at safety next to Dennis Smith, w/ Harden staying at CB.

ZONA
06-19-2011, 11:38 PM
One does, but not both.

dido

Shananahan
06-20-2011, 12:07 AM
dido
What about her?

cutthemdown
06-20-2011, 12:25 AM
I thought when Foley retired, Tony Lilly replaced him at safety next to Dennis Smith, w/ Harden staying at CB.

You may be right I can't say for sure.

alkemical
06-20-2011, 06:17 AM
What about her?

She's cool for a hot minute.

barryr
06-20-2011, 09:39 AM
I thought when Foley retired, Tony Lilly replaced him at safety next to Dennis Smith, w/ Harden staying at CB.

Yes, Lilly was the safety then. He was pretty bad to say the least. Randy Robbins was around too at that time, but didnīt do much either.

cutthemdown
06-20-2011, 10:27 AM
I do remember Lilly and Robbins and being really average. I just can't remember the depth chart enough to say exactly what the depth chart was. I do remember Atwater being seen as a replacement for Harden.