Interesting Article on the wealthy in China

[brncs_fan]

Was looking at this article and found the section below to be incredibly interesting given the nature of the ideological debates.

So why are wealthy Chinese so eager to leave their country? The simplest answer is that there are a lot of things in China that even the richest cannot buy (emigration is obviously not one of them). China's rich are fond of saying that nothing "is a problem if money can solve it." Among the irresolvable problems that spark emigration, there are material ones, and emotional ones.

The former includes issues like laws and regulations, the education system, social welfare, inheritance tax, quality of air, investing atmosphere, food safety, ability to travel, and so on. In short, these are the material factors that any State must provide to its people in order to ensure their happiness. In emerging countries such as China, these factors are still often found wanting.

Emotional reasons behind rich people's immigration are generally linked to the lack of a sense of personal safety, including safety of personal wealth, as well as fear about an uncertain future.

More of the story here (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2077139,00.html)

[shakenbake]

Living here I would say among my wealthy Chinese friends there is a desire to immigrate and it seems like they want to have a way out should things go bad again. So in that respect the article is right on the money. I think there is a fear that the government would collapse or start to redistribute wealth again.

I understand it was a gallop poll but the part about them thriving, striving, or struggling I don't really buy it. The reason is that Chinese people are a little dramatic, and there is a saying in Chinese called 吃苦 which means eat bitter. It is kinda like a badge of honor to say you 吃苦 or that you struggle through life. Even if you are rich and making tons of money you are still struggling. Everyone wants to say their life is so tough....

[That One Guy]

I just read that as well. This part jumped out to me:

An even bigger cause of concern is that, when rich people pack their money and leave, not only are they no longer identifying with their country, but they are also avoiding their social obligations. While the reason behind these people's decision matters little, the undeniable fact is that they make money from this society, but they refuse to give anything back.
Rich people who decide to move to a foreign country should know that, by doing so, they are stoking the dissatisfaction among those who stay behind. The poor get angrier because they cannot leave, and their hatred towards the remaining rich grows even bigger. This is the most corrosive thing that can happen to a society.

Try to hate the rich for being rich and nothing good comes. Scare them off and the whole system collapses.

[sirhcyennek81]

I just read that as well. This part jumped out to me:

An even bigger cause of concern is that, when rich people pack their money and leave, not only are they no longer identifying with their country, but they are also avoiding their social obligations. While the reason behind these people's decision matters little, the undeniable fact is that they make money from this society, but they refuse to give anything back.
Rich people who decide to move to a foreign country should know that, by doing so, they are stoking the dissatisfaction among those who stay behind. The poor get angrier because they cannot leave, and their hatred towards the remaining rich grows even bigger. This is the most corrosive thing that can happen to a society.

Try to hate the rich for being rich and nothing good comes. Scare them off and the whole system collapses.


China is interesting. They need to keep their country growing at 12% a year or it causes social problems. Even China cannot maintain double digit economic growth indefinately. That bubble will pop and probably drag SE asia with it. Then you have "wealthy coast" vs "poor interior". What happens when 3/4 of the country decides they had enough? Chinese military cant be everywhere.

Its gonna suck for them.

:Broncos:

[Chris]

Living here I would say among my wealthy Chinese friends there is a desire to immigrate and it seems like they want to have a way out should things go bad again. So in that respect the article is right on the money. I think there is a fear that the government would collapse or start to redistribute wealth again.

I understand it was a gallop poll but the part about them thriving, striving, or struggling I don't really buy it. The reason is that Chinese people are a little dramatic, and there is a saying in Chinese called 吃苦 which means eat bitter. It is kinda like a badge of honor to say you 吃苦 or that you struggle through life. Even if you are rich and making tons of money you are still struggling. Everyone wants to say their life is so tough....

Ni hui jiang guo yu ma?

[SonOfLe-loLang]

China is interesting. They need to keep their country growing at 12% a year or it causes social problems. Even China cannot maintain double digit economic growth indefinately. That bubble will pop and probably drag SE asia with it. Then you have "wealthy coast" vs "poor interior". What happens when 3/4 of the country decides they had enough? Chinese military cant be everywhere.

Its gonna suck for them.

:Broncos:

I think it comes down to the fact that there's no right way to sustain a country of one billion people. Its impossible

[Kaylore]

Living here I would say among my wealthy Chinese friends there is a desire to immigrate and it seems like they want to have a way out should things go bad again. So in that respect the article is right on the money. I think there is a fear that the government would collapse or start to redistribute wealth again.

I understand it was a gallop poll but the part about them thriving, striving, or struggling I don't really buy it. The reason is that Chinese people are a little dramatic, and there is a saying in Chinese called 吃苦 which means eat bitter. It is kinda like a badge of honor to say you 吃苦 or that you struggle through life. Even if you are rich and making tons of money you are still struggling. Everyone wants to say their life is so tough....

This must be a Budhist or Confucian thing because Korea is similar. There is an emphasis on process and working hard in Korea where it is important that people see you straining yourself. A common compliment for a hard worker is 수고하세요 (Soogohasseyo) which literally means you strained yourself. I found Koreans were more impressed with my work if I appeared to exert myself. When I found clever ways to make work easier, they were not always as impressed. Not to say they don't care about results. Obviously they do, but there is this latent cultural belief you need to be straining yourself or you're lazy.

[alkemical]

I find this discussion interesting. Thanks for some good insight to culture guys.

[Rausch 2.0]

My childhood BF is married to a gal who's 2nd generation chinese-American.

Apparently her whole family were doctors that owned farm land (think Kansas yet productive) and one day the government said "We need this to for military testing. You get nothing other than a warning to leave or die."

2 brothers and their families went to Cali and 2 brothers and theirs went to Vegas.

None regret the move and all have done well here.

Long story short it's the American dream...

[Chris]

Friend of a friend is a artist in Shanghai who made some pro democracy public statement and soon after was told he had an hour to leave his house before it would be flattened.

[shakenbake]

Ni hui jiang guo yu ma?

Yes a little, I studied for 4 years in University and I have lived here for 4 years.

[shakenbake]

This must be a Budhist or Confucian thing because Korea is similar. There is an emphasis on process and working hard in Korea where it is important that people see you straining yourself. A common compliment for a hard worker is 수고하세요 (Soogohasseyo) which literally means you strained yourself. I found Koreans were more impressed with my work if I appeared to exert myself. When I found clever ways to make work easier, they were not always as impressed. Not to say they don't care about results. Obviously they do, but there is this latent cultural belief you need to be straining yourself or you're lazy.

Yea it is deep culture belief that live is a struggle and there is honor or "face" in struggling through it.

[Chris]

Yea it is deep culture belief that live is a struggle and there is honor or "face" in struggling through it.

They also only spend money on the visible things to show their status. For example growing up people would borrow from loan sharks to afford the Mercedes while living in tiny apartments with hardly any furniture.

[shakenbake]

China is interesting. They need to keep their country growing at 12% a year or it causes social problems. Even China cannot maintain double digit economic growth indefinately. That bubble will pop and probably drag SE asia with it. Then you have "wealthy coast" vs "poor interior". What happens when 3/4 of the country decides they had enough? Chinese military cant be everywhere.

Its gonna suck for them.

:Broncos:

I think it can keep going on for awhile, there is still a ton of investment going on here, and it is starting to move inland.

If you look at a map of China, to date most of the investment has been along the coast. Now because of rising costs in those areas companies are starting to move inland. As it moves inland then the people in those areas will start to feel more of the benefits. Plus the government has lots of cash on hand to spur investment if they need to.

I thing I hear people complaining the most about now are rising taxes, food costs, and when the rich use their money to avoid punishment for crimes or corruption.

[alkemical]

They also only spend money on the visible things to show their status. For example growing up people would borrow from loan sharks to afford the Mercedes while living in tiny apartments with hardly any furniture.

Doesn't seem different than here. :D

[shakenbake]

They also only spend money on the visible things to show their status. For example growing up people would borrow from loan sharks to afford the Mercedes while living in tiny apartments with hardly any furniture.

The amount of money people spend to gain status is crazy. A BMW here is anywhere from 40% to 80% more expensive than in the US. Yet this is the number 1 market for the 750 series.

I think it is an Asian thing to spend money on luxury brands and goods. Japan is the #1 market for luxury brands with China not far behind.

[alkemical]

I think it can keep going on for awhile, there is still a ton of investment going on here, and it is starting to move inland.

If you look at a map of China, to date most of the investment has been along the coast. Now because of rising costs in those areas companies are starting to move inland. As it moves inland then the people in those areas will start to feel more of the benefits. Plus the government has lots of cash on hand to spur investment if they need to.

I thing I hear people complaining the most about now are rising taxes, food costs, and when the rich use their money to avoid punishment for crimes or corruption.

It's the same no matter where you go! :D

[alkemical]

The amount of money people spend to gain status is crazy. A BMW here is anywhere from 40% to 80% more expensive than in the US. Yet this is the number 1 market for the 750 series.

I think it is an Asian thing to spend money on luxury brands and goods. Japan is the #1 market for luxury brands with China not far behind.

Is it just a status thing, or is it the same needs for our psuedo rich market here? (All about the brands/keeping up w/jonessons) ;) ?

[shakenbake]

One of my Chinese friends has an Chinese American boss who's car in China is a CRV. This guy owns a muliti-million dollar company here. My friend said all of his co-workers were making fun of him and asking how he can drive such a crappy car, it gives him no face.

I told my friend if he wants face he can just show you his bank account statement.

[alkemical]

One of my Chinese friends has an Chinese American boss who's car in China is a CRV. This guy owns a muliti-million dollar company here. My friend said all of his co-workers were making fun of him and asking how he can drive such a crappy car, it gives him no face.

I told my friend if he wants face he can just show you his bank account statement.

Send him a picture of Jake in his element. :D

[Chris]

I think the difference is it's society wide and they're buying it solely for the status. In the west there is a taste element and plenty of wealthy people don't fall into the trap. When we had SARS in HK people were actually buying gucci face masks at insane prices. Additionally it didn't matter what income group you were in... poorer people in HK would just buy tshirts that had "Armani", "Dolce & Gabbana (hello)" printed on them. You could go to the ****tiest mall across the border and it's still all about fake luxury goods.

[alkemical]

I think the difference is it's society wide and they're buying it solely for the status. In the west there is a taste element and plenty of wealthy people don't fall into the trap. When we had SARS in HK people were actually buying gucci face masks at insane prices. Additionally it didn't matter what income group you were in... poorer people in HK would just buy tshirts that had "Armani", "Dolce & Gabbana (hello)" printed on them. You could go to the ****tiest mall across the border and it's still all about fake luxury goods.

IMO, "taste" is the same thing you are describing.

How many thugs wore Hillfiger gear, or rap about crystal? How many here in the "west" buy a car on "image"?

It doesn't sound much different IMO.

*Ed Hardy T shirts, etc -

[That One Guy]

The amount of money people spend to gain status is crazy. A BMW here is anywhere from 40% to 80% more expensive than in the US. Yet this is the number 1 market for the 750 series.

I think it is an Asian thing to spend money on luxury brands and goods. Japan is the #1 market for luxury brands with China not far behind.

I've always heard people buy expensive cars to compensate. Then I've also heard Asians have...

Hmm...