PDA

View Full Version : If facts don’t lie, is Mexico safer than the U.S.?


Pages : [1] 2

baja
05-20-2011, 05:10 PM
If facts don’t lie, is Mexico safer than the U.S.?


The following article was recently published by Patrick Osio, Editor of Hispanicvista.com. He is the co-founder of TransBorder Communications, Inc. (http://www.transbordercommunications.com/) dedicated to binational economic development. He has been kind enough to let us pass along his findings to you.


If facts don’t lie, is Mexico safer than the U.S.?
By Patrick Osio

Here comes Easter break again and young people will be young people – high school and college kids will travel to distant places where the drinking age is either less than it is in the U.S. or where authorities don’t care to enforce minors’ drinking laws. For several decades Mexico has been one such place of choice where the legal drinking age is 18. Mazatlan, Acapulco, Puerto Vallarta and Cancun were the fly to favorite places and Rosarito Beach and Ensenada the favorite drive to places from Southern California. – But not this year, or for that matter neither was it last year.

Our government and the U.S. media have convinced most Americans that Mexico is not a safe place to visit as drug traffickers are fighting it out to see which gang will have the right to sell their illicit drugs to the very group that will not be visiting Mexico. They will have to wait until they return from Easter break to get their Mexican smuggled drugs at home.

But what really struck me was that the preferred country to visit this Easter break in lieu of Mexico is the Dominica. It struck me because Dominica is rated as the number one country with the highest propensity for crime in the world. According to facts gathered by NationMaster.com, their total crime per 1,000 residents (per capita) is 113.822 –Compared to the U.S. that is 8th in the world in total crimes at 80.0645 per 1000 residents, making chances of being a victim of a crime in Dominica better than 10%, and slightly less than an 8% chance of being a victim in the U.S.

But here is the real clunker – Mexico, the country our government tells us not to visit and the media has a field day reporting any crime be it significant or not to further put the fear of God into staying away from there – well, it ranks 39th in total crime in the world with a per capita of slightly less than 13 crimes per 1000 residents that is a 1.3% chance of being a victim of crime in Mexico.

So Mexico is out, Dominica is in, yet the chances of being a crime victim there is greater than in the U.S. and the chances of being a crime victim in the U.S. is greater than in Mexico. But, for our own safety we need to stay out of Mexico.

Have you ever felt like you’re being duped but you can’t quite put your finger on why – what’s the motive? Is it to keep us from facing some bitter truths? We keep reading how crime is down, how safe we are compared to most other parts of the world. But is it true?

So here are some multiple choice questions for you:

1. Which country has a higher crime rate per 1,000 residents?
a. Mexico, b. Germany, c. Canada, d. U.S.
2. Which country has the highest murders with firearms?
a. Mexico, b. El Salvador, c. U.S.
3. Of the following countries, which has the least number of drug offenses?
a. Germany, b. United Kingdom, c. Canada, d. Switzerland, e. Mexico
4. Which country has the most prisoners?
a. United States, b. China, c. Russia, d. India, e. Mexico
(Answers: 1. d. U.S., 2. c. U.S., 3. e. Mexico, 4. a. U.S.- Source: http://www.nationmaster.com/)

In one of the only bright spots due to its recent gang related murders, Mexico, on a per capita, ranks as more dangerous than the U.S. occupying No. 24 and Mexico No. 6 in the world, but in total number of murders the U.S. is No. 5 and Mexico No. 6.

In fact, much of the crime data per capita 1000 population suggests that in many respects Mexico is safer than the U.S.: in assaults the U.S. ranks No. 6, Mexico No. 20; burglaries the U.S. No. 17, Mexico No. 34; car thefts U.S. No. 9, Mexico No. 22; fraud U.S. No. 18, Mexico No. 29; Rape (Canada No.5), U.S. No. 9, Mexico No. 17.

No doubt that at the expense of Mexico we are being duped. Is it to hide our insatiable appetite for illicit drugs and cheap labor, and so by pointing the finger of guilt to the biggest supplier of both we exculpate our actions or at minimum pacify our own guilt?

Maybe it’s time for “the home of the free, and land of the brave” to take note.

Archer81
05-20-2011, 05:20 PM
And I wonder how many people in mexico actually report it when they are the victims of a crime...

Or is headless bodies in Juarez just an exception, and not the rule?

:Broncos:

orinjkrush
05-20-2011, 05:25 PM
guess it depends on HOW you want to die.

KipCorrington25
05-20-2011, 06:50 PM
Does it figure in illegals commiting crimes in this country? Without those we'd decrease the rates a bit, hit and runs especially.

baja
05-20-2011, 07:02 PM
Does it figure in illegals commiting crimes in this country? Without those we'd decrease the rates a bit, hit and runs especially.

That is a factor. How much I do not know but I doubt the percentage would be affected all that much

DenverBrit
05-20-2011, 07:16 PM
In 1979, when Northern Ireland was in the grip of sectarian murders, Houston.....same population size....had four times the murder rate.

Facts don't lie. ;D

Jay3
05-20-2011, 07:39 PM
Where are all the hysterical reports warning us not to go to Mexico? I went three times in college. I don't remember being "duped."

They've had some serious drug wars, but that doesn't mean the reported crime rate is higher.

rmsanger
05-20-2011, 08:28 PM
So here are some multiple choice questions for you:

1. Which country has a higher crime rate per 1,000 residents? a. Mexico, b. Germany, c. Canada, d. U.S.
2. Which country has the highest murders with firearms?
a. Mexico, b. El Salvador, c. U.S.
3. Of the following countries, which has the least number of drug offenses?
a. Germany, b. United Kingdom, c. Canada, d. Switzerland, e. Mexico
4. Which country has the most prisoners?
a. United States, b. China, c. Russia, d. India, e. Mexico
(Answers: 1. d. U.S., 2. c. U.S., 3. e. Mexico, 4. a. U.S.- Source: http://www.nationmaster.com/)



1) Mexican police is as dirty as the crimals, hence none are caught.
2) The Mexican don't fug with guys as they like to remove heads.
3) US has strict drug laws and enforcement, Mexico has none
4) See above

baja
05-20-2011, 08:57 PM
1) Mexican police is as dirty as the crimals, hence none are caught.
2) The Mexican don't fug with guys as they like to remove heads.
3) US has strict drug laws and enforcement, Mexico has none
4) See above

1) On the local level that is true to a degree, the military not so much. Keep in mind a lot of good cops are being killed in the war.

2) There is a full out war going on don't know how you can make such a blatantly wrong claim.

3) So stupid does not warrant a response.

4) The US has more people in prison per capata than any other country in recorded history.

ColoradoDarin
05-20-2011, 08:59 PM
Yeah, don't know what source that is, but I trust wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Mexico) over it.

Crime in Mexico (few selected passages):
Crime continues at high levels, and is repeatedly marked by violence, especially in Monterrey, Tijuana, Ciudad Juárez, Tamaulipas, Michoacan, and the state of Sinaloa. Other metropolitan areas have lower, yet still serious, levels of crime. Low apprehension and conviction rates contribute to the high crime rate.

Analysis of crime statistics in Mexico indicate that although the crime rate has declined over the last 100 years, there has been a significant upswing within the last two decades led by Mexico City. Since many crimes go unreported, the rates may be much higher than reported by the government.

Rape is rarely reported or punished, owing to old social norms, minor penalties for the crime, and criminal laws. In some rural areas, penalties for rape may consist of a few hours in jail, or minor fines.

According to the CNDH, only one out of every ten crimes is reported in Mexico; this is due to lack of trust from citizens to the authorities. Furthermore, only one out of 100 reported crimes actually goes to sentencing. This means that one out of every 1000 crimes is punished

I think I'll pass on traveling to Mexico anytime soon.

baja
05-20-2011, 09:03 PM
Yeah, don't know what source that is, but I trust wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Mexico) over it.

Crime in Mexico (few selected passages):






I think I'll pass on traveling to Mexico anytime soon.

Suit yourself but you are making that decision based on inaccurate information.

Dr. Broncenstein
05-20-2011, 09:08 PM
<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qPSzKdJkxZM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ColoradoDarin
05-20-2011, 09:12 PM
Suit yourself but you are making that decision based on inaccurate information.

Pot. Kettle.

baja
05-20-2011, 09:13 PM
I didn't say it was perfect ;D

Still less violant per capata than the USA

"In fact, much of the crime data per capita 1000 population suggests that in many respects Mexico is safer than the U.S.: in assaults the U.S. ranks No. 6, Mexico No. 20; burglaries the U.S. No. 17, Mexico No. 34; car thefts U.S. No. 9, Mexico No. 22; fraud U.S. No. 18, Mexico No. 29; Rape (Canada No.5), U.S. No. 9, Mexico No. 17."

broncocalijohn
05-20-2011, 09:13 PM
How about the author gives the crime report in the cities that Americans visit. Tijuana, Rosarito, Cancun, Puerta Vallarta, etc? I dont care if one state is crime free if no one goes there to visit. If I had a college age child, I want to know how safe is THE CITY HE IS VISITING!

baja
05-20-2011, 09:14 PM
Pot. Kettle.

Dude I've lived and traveled in Mexico for over 25 years. I'd say I'm in a better position to report on crime in Mexico that you who refuses to even set foot in the country. Just sayin...

baja
05-20-2011, 09:17 PM
How about the author gives the crime report in the cities that Americans visit. Tijuana, Rosarito, Cancun, Puerta Vallarta, etc? I dont care if one state is crime free if no one goes there to visit. If I had a college age child, I want to know how safe is THE CITY HE IS VISITING!

Fair enough just avoid the places you mentioned and you will most likely be fine.

Oh and Rosarito should not be on that list and Monterey should.

UberBroncoMan
05-20-2011, 11:24 PM
New Orleans is a good example of a nasty place to live in the US. Huge murder rate.

As for Mexico being safer? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Stats don't tell the whole story.

On a curious side-note. I wonder how many of our prisoners (in the South West especially) are of illegal Mexican ethnicity.

bombay
05-20-2011, 11:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-d2T29dNMY&feature=relmfu


One more time..

epicSocialism4tw
05-20-2011, 11:33 PM
I wouldnt trust a single statistic that came out of Mexico about safety. Not one.

That country absolutely depends on US tourism dollars.

Baja, you should be ashamed of yourself for posting such nonsense.

baja
05-20-2011, 11:42 PM
Soooo closed minded...........

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11664

bombay
05-20-2011, 11:43 PM
The U.S. government is for sale to a higher class of criminal.


PS: when a huge market is created, someone will fill that market's needs.

Archer81
05-21-2011, 01:04 AM
New Orleans is a good example of a nasty place to live in the US. Huge murder rate.

As for Mexico being safer? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Stats don't tell the whole story.

On a curious side-note. I wonder how many of our prisoners (in the South West especially) are of illegal Mexican ethnicity.


Over 50%.

But its not their fault. They came to the US for a better life and do jobs our criminals wont do.

:Broncos:

TomServo
05-21-2011, 02:50 AM
OK, all those dumbass students in Tuscon that want "conquista", lets give CA, NM, and AZ, back to mexico. and when they F -it all up like mexico they will try to sneak into WA, ID, and WA. what then?
when the mexicans give all the land cortez stole, back to the aztecs, we'll talk.

ColoradoDarin
05-21-2011, 06:09 AM
Dude I've lived and traveled in Mexico for over 25 years. I'd say I'm in a better position to report on crime in Mexico that you who refuses to even set foot in the country. Just sayin...

Dude I've lived and traveled in the US for over 37 years. I'd say I'm in a better position to report on crime in the US that you who refuses to even set foot in the country. Just sayin...

baja
05-21-2011, 06:36 AM
Dude I've lived and traveled in the US for over 37 years. I'd say I'm in a better position to report on crime in the US that you who refuses to even set foot in the country. Just sayin...

Dude I was born in the US and have lived in Maine, Mass, Ct., Alabama, Texas, Colorado, Hawaii, California, Oklahoma, Arizona and have visited just about every state in the union. I lived and worked in the US for 37 years. BTW I was in San Digo this time last week. Just sayin....

Dr. Broncenstein
05-21-2011, 06:39 AM
If a police captain or mayor is gunned down in the US, it's a big deal. If it happens in Mexico, it's a slow Tuesday.

baja
05-21-2011, 06:46 AM
Interesting that the indisputable statistics that show Mexico has fewer homicides per capata than the US is such a threat to you guys. Someone care to tell me why that is.

Dr. Broncenstein
05-21-2011, 06:51 AM
Interesting that the indisputable statistics that show Mexico has fewer homicides per capata than the US is such a threat to you guys. Someone care to tell me why that is.

You have to be kidding me with the indisputable statistics part. Maybe it's perception... but I'm never surprised to hear about Mexican police and government officials being slaughtered in broad daylight.

baja
05-21-2011, 07:11 AM
OK I did some checking but all I could find is the figures for early 2000's and at that time Mexico had more homicides per capata than the USA but it was close. Can anyone find recent numbers?

baja
05-21-2011, 07:14 AM
You have to be kidding me with the indisputable statistics part. Maybe it's perception... but I'm never surprised to hear about Mexican police and government officials being slaughtered in broad daylight.

That's my point the US press is making the thing bigger than it is. I speculate it is to keep US travel dollars in the US.

Here in Cabo the tourists have figured that out and are coming back. Tourism is way up over the last two years which were devastating.

Pony Boy
05-21-2011, 07:47 AM
Interesting that the indisputable statistics that show Mexico has fewer homicides per capata than the US is such a threat to you guys. Someone care to tell me why that is.

Ha...... that's because they don't bother to report homicides in Mexico.....it's like in the US when we see a dead deer on the road, we feel bad but just keep on driving.....

2KBack
05-21-2011, 07:52 AM
I didn't say it was perfect ;D

Still less violant per capata than the USA

"In fact, much of the crime data per capita 1000 population suggests that in many respects Mexico is safer than the U.S.: in assaults the U.S. ranks No. 6, Mexico No. 20; burglaries the U.S. No. 17, Mexico No. 34; car thefts U.S. No. 9, Mexico No. 22; fraud U.S. No. 18, Mexico No. 29; Rape (Canada No.5), U.S. No. 9, Mexico No. 17."

I wonder where our respective countries would rank on accurate censor data, and the actual reporting (or recording) of crime? I volunteer in Guatemala every couple years or so, and I can tell you that a fraction of the rapes get reported due to a strong cultural core of patriarchy.

baja
05-21-2011, 07:57 AM
I wonder where our respective countries would rank on accurate censor data, and the actual reporting (or recording) of crime? I volunteer in Guatemala every couple years or so, and I can tell you that a fraction of the rapes get reported due to a strong cultural core of patriarchy.

That's true in Mexico too. Rape and spousal abuse is a big problem here. I bet it is highly underreported in the US too.

ColoradoDarin
05-21-2011, 08:54 AM
Dude I was born in the US and have lived in Maine, Mass, Ct., Alabama, Texas, Colorado, Hawaii, California, Oklahoma, Arizona and have visited just about every state in the union. I lived and worked in the US for 37 years. BTW I was in San Digo this time last week. Just sayin....

And yet you assume that I have never been to Mexico, even though my statements have been forward looking.

Agamemnon
05-21-2011, 08:59 AM
In one of the only bright spots due to its recent gang related murders, Mexico, on a per capita, ranks as more dangerous than the U.S. occupying No. 24 and Mexico No. 6 in the world, but in total number of murders the U.S. is No. 5 and Mexico No. 6.


Err...doesn't this sentence pretty much negate the whole article?

Agamemnon
05-21-2011, 09:01 AM
I wonder where our respective countries would rank on accurate censor data, and the actual reporting (or recording) of crime? I volunteer in Guatemala every couple years or so, and I can tell you that a fraction of the rapes get reported due to a strong cultural core of patriarchy.

I'm going to guess that most violent crime in Mexico is severely under-reported. Especially when you consider how incredibly corrupt and abusive the police are there. I really doubt most Mexicans have much trust in their legal system to be honest.

maven
05-21-2011, 09:29 AM
I would have no problems traveling in Mexico. I do think tourism has taken a huge hit in Mexico. I also think because of this, tourists are checking out the many other places to go and finding new places to visit.

baja
05-21-2011, 11:10 AM
And yet you assume that I have never been to Mexico, even though my statements have been forward looking.


I was going by your statement, "I will never set foot in Mexico".

Miss Cleo I'm not.

baja
05-21-2011, 11:14 AM
Err...doesn't this sentence pretty much negate the whole article?

It's an awkward sentence true enough. I think he means the 5 -6 ratings.

baja
05-21-2011, 11:20 AM
I'm going to guess that most violent crime in Mexico is severely under-reported. Especially when you consider how incredibly corrupt and abusive the police are there. I really doubt most Mexicans have much trust in their legal system to be honest.

That is true but it is changing under president Felipe Calderon.

Mexico has very little debt both public and private. Half the population is under 26 years old. 95% have free health care. Calderon has trimmed much fat from the government. The are building roads all over Mexico like crazy. The middle class has grown by a huge margin. NAFTA has been good for Mexico. In general Mexico's future is bright while as an American I am concerned about the US's future, especially short term.

baja
05-21-2011, 11:22 AM
I'll tell ya the crime that goes unreported in Mexico is kidnappings. It's a huge problem in Mexico City. They have left the tourists alone so far.

epicSocialism4tw
05-21-2011, 12:40 PM
Ha...... that's because they don't bother to report homicides in Mexico.....it's like in the US when we see a dead deer on the road, we feel bad but just keep on driving.....

No joke.

Its also hard to count the hundreds of bodies buried in the desert that they have yet to find.

Rock Chalk
05-21-2011, 01:05 PM
I didn't say it was perfect ;D

Still less violant per capata than the USA

"In fact, much of the crime data per capita 1000 population suggests that in many respects Mexico is safer than the U.S.: in assaults the U.S. ranks No. 6, Mexico No. 20; burglaries the U.S. No. 17, Mexico No. 34; car thefts U.S. No. 9, Mexico No. 22; fraud U.S. No. 18, Mexico No. 29; Rape (Canada No.5), U.S. No. 9, Mexico No. 17."

Multiply Mexican numbers by about 10-20 because of the fact that people dont ****ing report crimes in Mexico. These are REPORTED crimes.

People in America actually report crime, they trust the local authorities, and for the most part, teh government to crack down on crime. People in Mexico do not. Furthermore, a Mexican Drug Cartel gang assaults 10 people in a small village. That's 10 crimes you can bet your ass are NEVER reported. There is no possibility of punishment for that drug cartel. Murder, rape, assault, theft, none of that **** is reported with any consistency in most of Mexico. Maybe in the larger cities where there is some semblance of stability, but certainly not in smaller towns and villages where the local law enforcement is bought and paid for by neighboring drug cartels, gangsters, thugs and just general bad guys.

You are an absolutely ****ing moron if you believe those stats are even remotely accurate. All they give information on is REPORTED crimes. Crime in America is more reported than in **** hole countries where the people have no trust in the authorities to follow up on claims of violence and/or theft.

v2micca
05-21-2011, 01:50 PM
Facts may not lie. But as a man much wised than me once said. There are lies, there are damn lies, and then there are statistics. I have seen no facts presented here. Just statistics that others have noted are highly suspect.

baja
05-21-2011, 02:00 PM
Well it seems important to most of you to paint Mexico as a real shiit hole. That is your privilege but it is not the reality. Mexico is the victim of bad press from the US and it's about money (tourist dollars) It's a shame so many of you are so easily deceived.

You are being manipulated into believing what your overlords want you to believe.

Do not kid yourselves Mexico is in great financial shape, growing and progressing every day. I wish I could say the same for the deeply in dept United States.

Many of you are in for a huge surprise some day soon I am sad to say.

baja
05-21-2011, 02:02 PM
Facts may not lie. But as a man much wised than me once said. There are lies, there are damn lies, and then there are statistics. I have seen no facts presented here. Just statistics that others have noted are highly suspect.

Do you need facts to know what is going on in your area?

Neither do I.

Popps
05-21-2011, 02:05 PM
Well it seems important to most of you to paint Mexico as a real shiit hole. That is your privilege but it is not the reality. Mexico is the victim of bad press from the US and it's about money (tourist dollars) It's a shame so many of you are so easily deceived.

You are being manipulated into believing what your overlords want you to believe.

Do not kid yourselves Mexico is in great financial shape, growing and progressing every day. I wish I could say the same for the deeply in dept United States.

Many of you are in for a huge surprise some day soon I am sad to say.


Care to expand on that?

None of the Mexicans I know seem to agree with you. Maybe I don't know the right people.

baja
05-21-2011, 02:15 PM
Well I can do no more on this subject. I have posted an hour long interview by Charlie Rose asking tough questions of Felipe Calderon, president of Mexico that has many enlightening facts presented. Any body watch it? By the response here I'd say no.

Carry on with your smug ignorance of the issue. Don't listen to someone that has lived in the country in question for 25 years, that would be silly.

Continue getting your "truth syrup" from Murdock Media and other outlets with an agenda not in your best interests.

BTW He's a foreigner ya know...

UberBroncoMan
05-21-2011, 02:21 PM
Well it seems important to most of you to paint Mexico as a real shiit hole. That is your privilege but it is not the reality. Mexico is the victim of bad press from the US and it's about money (tourist dollars) It's a shame so many of you are so easily deceived.

You are being manipulated into believing what your overlords want you to believe.

Do not kid yourselves Mexico is in great financial shape, growing and progressing every day. I wish I could say the same for the deeply in dept United States.

Many of you are in for a huge surprise some day soon I am sad to say.

It is a **** hole. That's why my ancestors ditched it in the late 1800's. There are two classes in Mexico. Rich as ****, and poor. The middle class is near non-existent.

You're a guy who worked his ass off for decades in the USA, probably saved well, and is now retired down in Mexico. Big difference in life style. Maybe if you actually knew what it was like to live as a Mexican in the common gutter that millions do, instead of the high-life, you'd get it.

I still have relatives down there. They don't live in remotely the same kind of "luxury" I do and they work hard. I only have one cousin who "made it," and he works overseas now for a ****ing Japanese corporation.

Growing and progressing? Well yeah it's growing, because they won't stop ****ing just like commonplace in other 2nd-3rd world countries. But progressing is laughable.

This entire thread seems like nothing but you trolling. Literally. This is just a troll thread in my eyes, with you egging everyone one to have some fun.

I'll agree on one thing though. The USA is not progressing at all, Bush and Obama + Congress have seen and continue to see to that.

baja
05-21-2011, 02:22 PM
Care to expand on that?


None of the Mexicans I know seem to agree with you. Maybe I don't know the right people.

I suggest you watch the hour long interview with Calderon posted in this thread if you are really interested in the facts.


We are not without problems here but Mexico is moving in the right direction.


Economy of Mexico

The economy of Mexico is the 13th largest in the world in nominal terms and the 11th by purchasing power parity, according to the World Bank. Since the 1994 crisis, administrations have improved the country's macroeconomic fundamentals. Mexico was not significantly influenced by the recent 2002 South American crisis, and maintained positive, although low, rates of growth after a brief period of stagnation in 2001. However, Mexico was one of the Latin American nations most affected by the 2008 recession with its Gross Domestic Product contracting by more than 6%. Moody's (in March 2000) and Fitch IBCA (in January 2002) issued investment-grade ratings for Mexico's sovereign debt. In spite of its unprecedented macroeconomic stability, which has reduced inflation and interest rates to record lows and has increased per capita income, enormous gaps remain between the urban and the rural population, the northern and southern states, and the rich and the poor.[6] Some of the government's challenges include the upgrade of infrastructure, the modernization of the tax system and labor laws, and the reduction of income inequality.
The economy contains rapidly developing modern industrial and service sectors, with increasing private ownership. Recent administrations have expanded competition in ports, railroads, telecommunications, electricity generation, natural gas distribution and airports, with the aim of upgrading infrastructure. As an export-oriented economy, more than 90% of Mexican trade is under free trade agreements (FTAs) with more than 40 countries, including the European Union, Japan, Israel, and much of Central and South America. The most influential FTA is the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), which came into effect in 1994, and was signed in 1992 by the governments of the United States, Canada and Mexico. In 2006, trade with Mexico's two northern partners accounted for almost 90% of its exports and 55% of its imports.[7] Recently, the Congress of the Union approved important tax, pension and judicial reforms, and reform to the oil industry is currently being debated. According to the Forbes Global 2000 list of the world's largest companies in 2008, Mexico had 16 companies in the list.[8]
The annual Mexico Investment Summit [9] takes place in Mexico City covering the development and investment opportunities and challenges across Mexican private equity, venture capital, infrastructure, real estate, agriculture, tourism, energy and natural resources [10] evolving in the country's economy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Mexico

baja
05-21-2011, 02:28 PM
It is a **** hole. That's why my ancestors ditched it in the late 1800's. There are two classes in Mexico. Rich as ****, and poor. The middle class is near non-existent.

You're a guy who worked his ass off for decades in the USA, probably saved well, and is now retired down in Mexico. Big difference in life style. Maybe if you actually knew what it was like to live as a Mexican in the common gutter that millions do, instead of the high-life, you'd get it.

I still have relatives down there. They don't live in remotely the same kind of "luxury" I do and they work hard. I only have one cousin who "made it," and he works overseas now for a ****ing Japanese corporation.

Growing and progressing? Well yeah it's growing, because they won't stop ****ing just like commonplace in other 2nd-3rd world countries. But progressing is laughable.

This entire thread seems like nothing but you trolling. Literally. This is just a troll thread in my eyes, with you egging everyone one to have some fun.

I'll agree on one thing though. The USA is not progressing at all, Bush and Obama + Congress have seen and continue to see to that.

You are clearly talking about the Mexico of 25 years ago and seem to be content with that belief. You are wrong about today's Mexico but what I wonder is why so many get angry when I present that Mexico is making positive strides. I would think you would be happy your neighbor is turning things around if for no other reason than maybe some of those dirty thieving Mexicans will finally go home and live "your" fine country that your forefathers committed genocide to claim.

UberBroncoMan
05-21-2011, 02:31 PM
You are clearly talking about the Mexico of 25 years ago and seem to be content with that belief. You are wrong about today's Mexico but what I wonder is why so many get angry when I present that Mexico is making positive strides. I would think you would be happy your neighbor is turning things around if for no other reason than maybe some of those dirty thieving Mexicans will finally go home.

Nope. Talking about today's Mexico. Get off the beach. It's better than it was 25 years ago, but that's not saying much.

baja
05-21-2011, 02:38 PM
Nope. Talking about today's Mexico. Get off the beach. It's better than it was 25 years ago, but that's not saying much.

Throw away the opinions but consider the facts presented;

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11664

baja
05-21-2011, 02:52 PM
.....and here;



THE NEW GLOBAL ECONOMIC REALITY

This insightful article was written by Charles Simpson and is reprinted here with his permission. He can be reached at mexinvestnow@gmail.com

Real estate opportunities in Mexico! How to prosper & avoid the coming storm and prolonged economic stagnation in the USA.

First: A reality check on Mexico

Mexico is in a unique position to reap many of the benefits of the decline of the US economy. In order to not violate NAFTA and other agreements the U.S.A. cannot use direct protectionism, so it is content to allow the media to play this protectionist role. The U.S. media – over the last year – has portrayed Mexico as being on the brink of economic collapse and civil war. The Mexican people are either beheaded, kidnapped, poor, corrupt, or narco-traffickers. The American news media was particularly aggressive in the weeks leading up to spring break. The main reason for this is money. During that two-week period, over 120,000 young American citizens poured into Mexico and left behind hundreds of millions of dollars.

Let’s look at the reality of the massive drug and corruption problem, kidnappings, murders and money. The U.S. Secretary of State Clinton was clear in her honest assessment of the problem. “Our insatiable demand for illegal drugs fuels the drug trade. Our inability to prevent the weapons from being illegally smuggled across the border to arm these criminals causes the deaths of police officers, soldiers and civilians,” Clinton said. The other large illegal business that is smuggled into the U.S.A. that no one likes to talk about is Human Traffic for prostitution. This “business” is globally now competing with drugs in terms of profits.

It is critical to understand, however that the horrific violence in Mexico is over 95% confined to the three transshipping cities for these two businesses, Tijuana, Nogales, and Juarez. The Mexican government is so serious about fighting this, that they have committed over 30,000 soldiers to these borders towns. There was a thoughtful article written by a professor at the University of Juarez. He was reminded of the Prohibition years in the U.S.A. and compared Juarez to Chicago when Al Capone was conducting his reign of terror capped off with The Saint Valentine’s Day Massacre. During these years, just like Juarez today, 99% of the citizens went about their daily lives and attended classes, went to the movies, restaurants, and parks.

Is there corruption in Mexico? YES !!! Is there an equal amount of corruption related to this business in the U.S.A.? YES !!!. When you have a pair of illegal businesses that generate over $300,000,000,000 in sales you will find massive corruption. Make no mistake about the Mexican Drug Cartel; these “businessmen” are 100 times more sophisticated than the bumbling bootleggers during Prohibition. They form profitable alliances all over the U.S.A. They do cost benefit analysis of their business much better than the US automobile industry. They have found over the years that the cost of bribing U.S. and Mexican Border Guards and the transportation costs of moving marijuana from Sinaloa to California have cut significantly into profits. That is why over the past 5-7 years they have been growing marijuana in State and Federal Parks and BLM land all across America. From a business standpoint, this is a tremendous cost savings on several levels. Let’s look at California as an example as one of the largest consumers. When you have $14.2 billion of Marijuana grown and consumed in one state, there is savings on transportation, less loss of product due to confiscation and an overall reduction cost of bribery with law enforcement and parks service people. Another great savings is the benefit to their employees. The penalties in Mexico for growing range from 5-15 years. The penalties in California, on average are 18 months, and out in 8 months. The same economic principles are now being applied to the methamphetamine factories.

FOX News continues to scare people with its focus on kidnapping. There are kidnappings in Mexico. The concentration of kidnappings has been in Mexico City, among the very rich and the three aforementioned border Cities. With the exception of Mexico City, the number one city for kidnappings among NAFTA countries is Phoenix, Arizona with over 359 in 2008. The Phoenix Police estimate that twice that number of kidnappings goes unreported, because like Mexico 99% of these crimes were directly related to drug and human traffic. Phoenix, unfortunately, is geographically profitable transshipping location. Mexicans, just like 99% of U.S. Citizens during prohibition, go about their daily lives all over the country. They get up, go to school or work and live their lives untouched by the border town violence.

These same protectionist news sources have misled the public as to the real danger from the swine flu in Mexico and temporary devastated the tourism business. As of May 27 2009 there have been 87 deaths in Mexico from the swine flu. During those same five months there have been 36 murdered school children in Chicago. By their logic, if 87 deaths from the swine flu in Mexico warrants canceling flights and cruise ships to Mexico, then close all roads and highways in the USA because of record 43,359 automobile related deaths in the USA in 2008.

What is just getting underway is what many are calling the “Largest southern migration to Mexico of people and real estate assets since the Civil War” A significant percentage of the Baby Boomers have been doing the research and are making the life changing decision to move out of the U.S.A. The number one retirement destination in the world is Mexico. There are already over 2,000,000 US and Canadian property owners in Mexico. The most conservative number of American and Canadian Baby Boomers who are on their way to owning property in Mexico for full or part time living in the next 15 years is over 6,000,000. Do the math on 6,000,000 people buying a $300,000 house or condo and you will understand why the U.S. Government is trying to tax this massive shift of money to Mexico through H.R. 3056. The U.S. government calls this “The Tax Collection Responsibility Act of 2007”. Those who will have to pay it are calling this the EXIT TAX.



Mexico: A better economic choice than China

Another large exodus from the U.S.A is high paying skilled jobs. The job shift in automobile sector, both car and parts manufacturing, is already known by most investors. In the last few months as John Deere and Caterpillar have been laying off thousands of workers in the U.S.A., and hiring equal numbers in Mexico. The most recent industry that is making the shift is the aerospace manufacturers. In the city of Zacatecas there is currently a $210 million aerospace facility being built. With the 11 U.S. companies moving there, it is estimated to provide over 200,000 new high paying jobs in the coming years. One of the main factors for the shift in job south to Mexico instead of China is realistic analysis of total production, labor and delivery costs. While the labor costs in China are 40% less on average, the overall transportation costs and inherent risks of a long distance supply chain, and quality control issues, gives Mexico a distinct financial advantage.

Mexico’s real economic future

Mexico has avoided completely the subprime problem that has devastated the U.S. banking industry. The Mexican banks are healthy and profitable. Mexico has a growing and very healthy middle and upper middle class. The very recent introduction of residential financing has Mexico in a unique position of having over 90% of current homeowners owning their house outright. U.S. banks are competing for the Mexican, Canadian and American cross border loan business. It is and will continue to be a very safe and very profitable business. These same banks that were loaning in a reckless manner have learned their lesson and are loaning here the old fashioned way. They require a minimum of a 680 credit score, 30% down payment, and verifiable income that can support the loan. In most areas of Mexico where Baby Boomers are moving to, with the exception of Puerto Penasco (which did not have a national and international base of buyers), there is no real estate bubble. The higher end markets ($2-20 million) in many of these destinations are going through a modest correction. The Baby Boomers market here is between $200,000 and $600,000. With the continuing demand inside the Bay of Banderas, that price point, in the coming years, will disappear. This is the reason the Mexican government is spending billions of dollars on more infrastructure north along the coast all the way up to Mazatlan.

The other major area where America has become overpriced is in the field of health care. This massive shift of revenues is estimated to add 5-7% to Mexico’s GDP. The name for this “business” is Medical Tourism. The two biggest competitors for Mexico were Thailand and India. Thailand and India’s biggest drawback is geography. Also recent events, Thailand’s inability to keep a government in place and the recent terrorist attack in Mumbai, have helped Mexico capture close to half of this growth industry. In Mexico today there are over 56 world class hospitals being built to keep up with this business.

Mexico is currently sitting on a cash surplus and an almost balanced budget. Most Americans have never heard of Carlos Slim until he loaned the New York Times $250 million. After that it became clear to many investors around the world what Mexicans already knew: that Mexico had been able to avoid the worst of the U.S. economic devastation. Mexico’s resilience is to be admired. When the U.S. Federal Reserve granted a $30 billion loan to each of the following countries Mexico, Singapore, South Korea, and Brazil, Mexico reinvested the money in Treasury bonds in an account in New York City.

According to oil traders, Mexico’s Pemex wisely as the price of oil shot to $147 a barrel put in place an investment strategy that hinged on oil trading in the range of $38-$60 a barrel. Since the beginning of 2009 Mexico has been collecting revenues on hedged positions that give them $90-$110 per barrel today. Mexico’s recent and under reported oil discovery in the Palaeo Channels of Chicontepec has placed it third in the world for oil reserves, right behind Canada and Saudi Arabia.

The following is a quote from Rosalind Wilson, President of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce on March 19, 2009. “The strength of the Mexican economic system makes the country a favorite destination for Canadian investment”.

OPPORTUNITIES: WHY PUERTO VALLARTA & THE RIVIERA NAYARIT?

The answer is simple and old fashioned: SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

The area of Puerto Vallarta/Riviera Nayarit inside the Bay of Banderas is an investor’s dream. This area has the comprehensive infrastructure in place, world class hospitals and dental care, natural investment protection from the Sierra Madre Mountains, endless future water supply, low to nonexistent crime, international airport, and limited supply inside the Bay, first class private bilingual schools and higher than average appreciation potential. Like many areas in Mexico there is large demand for full and part time retirement living and a lot of construction underway to meet this demand. Pre construction of course is where the best bargains are available.

I would offer a word of caution for investors in Mexico. Do not be seduced by the endless natural beauty that is everywhere, both inland in colonial towns and along thousands of miles of beach. Apply conservative medium and long term investment strategies without emotion. The demand for full and part time living by American and Canadian Baby Boomers is evident throughout the country. The top two choice locations are ocean front, and ocean view. The third overall choice, which is less expensive, is inland in one of the many beautiful colonial towns or small cities.

Mexico, with the world’s 13th largest GDP, is no longer a “Third World Country”, but rather a fast growing, economically secure state, as the most recent five-year history of its financial markets when compared to the U.S.A.’s financial markets suggests.

DOW JONES AVERAGES MAY 2004 10,200 MAY 2009 8,200 20% LOSS IN 5 YEARS

MEXICAN BOLSA MAY 2004 10,000 MAY 2009 23,000 130% GAIN IN 5 YEARS

DenverBrit
05-21-2011, 02:53 PM
Loved Puerto Vallarta. Great food, culturally interesting, friendly and seemingly
as safe as anywhere else I travel.

But I will skip Tijuana and Cancun....for different reasons. ;D

baja
05-21-2011, 02:55 PM
Loved Puerto Vallarta. Great food, culturally interesting, friendly and seemingly
as safe as anywhere else I travel.

But I will skip Tijuana and Cancun....for different reasons. ;D

I just drove an H2 Hummer through Tijuana about a week ago on my way to Cabo - my hands were sweating the whole way.

baja
05-21-2011, 02:56 PM
Cancun sucks unless you like Miami beach with bad drinking water.

DenverBrit
05-21-2011, 02:58 PM
Ah, we share the same opinion of those two towns. Ha!

ColoradoDarin
05-21-2011, 05:28 PM
Holy cow, when did Baja turn into the love child of Gaffney and Mock?

Pony Boy
05-21-2011, 07:36 PM
I just drove an H2 Hummer through Tijuana about a week ago on my way to Cabo - my hands were sweating the whole way.

When I was in Tijuana there were signs in the bathroom asking you to put the toilet paper you wiped you ass with in the trash can and not flush it..........now that's when you know you are in a third world country.

baja
05-21-2011, 07:47 PM
When I was in Tijuana there were signs in the bathroom asking you to put the toilet paper you wiped you ass with in the trash can and not flush it..........now that's when you know you are in a third world country.

They are just being green. They reuse the paper for napkins in the restaurant.

Not every society is wasteful like you American Imperialist pigs.

Dr. Broncenstein
05-21-2011, 07:51 PM
They are just being green. They reuse the paper for napkins in the restaurant.

Not every society is wasteful like you American Imperialist pigs.

LOL

I thought it was because the shiatty TP made the drinking water taste shiatty.

Vegas_Bronco
05-21-2011, 07:52 PM
The author of the doc obviously likes oily salad and lucky charms...it's not a matter of what markets are the next to 'bubble' in this new global recession. HYPE is OUT dumbazzes - REALITY is cracking hype on the SKULL everyday in every marketplace...IT DOesn't WOrk!

In twenty years it will only matter what you have done to build worth on the small POS land you currently call home. The next country to peak won't matter - countries won't matter because the economies they have won't matter. It's time we stopped lying about what our things are worth and started realizing that we have very little resources that relate directly to our maslows hierarchy of needs for humankind.

Prior to 1950:
American Citizens did not have home mortgages
American Citizens did not have car loans
American Citizens did not have cable
American Citizens did not have the internet
________________________________________
All of these amass 85% of our current worth per american household...but when the social morays change due to economic collapse, these do relatively little to produce for our immediate human needs. See how fragile the system has become by relying on HYPE.

instead of converting your dollar to pesos for a quick scalp of the market - invest in some food, commodities, and something to do with your massive debt. lol

baja
05-21-2011, 07:59 PM
The author of the doc obviously likes oily salad and lucky charms...it's not a matter of what markets are the next to 'bubble' in this new global recession. HYPE is OUT dumbazzes - REALITY is cracking hype on the SKULL everyday in every marketplace...IT DOesn't WOrk!

In twenty years it will only matter what you have done to build worth on the small POS land you currently call home. The next country to peak won't matter - countries won't matter because the economies they have won't matter. It's time we stopped lying about what our things are worth and started realizing that we have very little resources that relate directly to our maslows hierarchy of needs for humankind.

Do not dispair we are only 3 hours away from the quickening. Are you ready?

Vegas_Bronco
05-21-2011, 08:04 PM
Do not dispair we are only 3 hours away from the quickening. Are you ready?

Lance armstrong just LOL'ed!

Tombstone RJ
05-21-2011, 08:12 PM
They are just being green. They reuse the paper for napkins in the restaurant.

ROFL!

Pony Boy
05-21-2011, 08:24 PM
They are just being green. They reuse the paper for napkins in the restaurant.

Not every society is wasteful like you American Imperialist pigs.

The problem with this custom is mexican's come to the US and wipe thier butts and put the nasty TP in the waste basket.........LOL

Meck77
05-21-2011, 08:26 PM
Do not dispair we are only 3 hours away from the quickening. Are you ready?

All these deadlines! The rapture was suppose to be at 6. Now the quickening starts at 9pm!

And then it's 2012. And then it's....

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9836/tinfoilg.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/690/tinfoilg.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Dr. Broncenstein
05-21-2011, 08:30 PM
The problem with this custom is mexican's come to the US and wipe thier butts and put the nasty TP in the waste basket.........LOL

Oh my god this is true. I truly wanted to kill someone over this back in the day.

baja
05-21-2011, 08:33 PM
The problem with this custom is mexican's come to the US and wipe thier butts and put the nasty TP in the waste basket.........LOL

Tell ya how green I am. I often stretch Saran Wrap over public toilets then put the seat down to conserve water due to evaporation.

Hopefully the user notices the covering before he sits down for a dump.

Pony Boy
05-21-2011, 08:38 PM
Tell ya how green I am. I often stretch Saran Wrap over public toilets then put the seat down to conserve water due to evaporation.

Hopefully the user notices the covering before he sits down for a dump.

I’ll tell you another good one, I was in LA and had to stop at a gas station to take an emergency dump and the crapper was locked. I looked under the door and didn’t see any feet, so I forced the door open and a little gook guy was perched on the toilet rim like a bird with his toes gripping the seat and his ass hanging in the bowl not touching a thing. He had this scared to death look so I said sorry and closed the door. I thought damn I wish I could do that so I didn’t have to line the seat with toilet paper to keep the germs off my junk…..

broncocalijohn
05-21-2011, 08:38 PM
The problem with this custom is mexican's come to the US and wipe thier butts and put the nasty TP in the waste basket.........LOL

Yep! Amazing they still think that way but ask restuarants that cater to the illegal aliens.

Missouribronc
05-21-2011, 08:40 PM
It's awesome that you love your new country.

I wish all of the people who illegally enter this country as criminals would feel the same way about my country.

baja
05-21-2011, 09:12 PM
It's awesome that you love your new country.

I wish all of the people who illegally enter this country as criminals would feel the same way about my country.

Nationalism is the problem.

I consider myself a citizen of the world.

v2micca
05-21-2011, 10:23 PM
I'm now convinced you are just pissing with us. You go on about being green while talking about driving your H2 Hummer in the same thread. You invoke facts in the thread title and then argue that you don't need facts to know that area you live in. I get it, The lockout sucks and its an even more boring off-season than usual. God, I can't wait for it to end.

baja
05-21-2011, 10:38 PM
I'm now convinced you are just pissing with us. You go on about being green while talking about driving your H2 Hummer in the same thread. You invoke facts in the thread title and then argue that you don't need facts to know that area you live in. I get it, The lockout sucks and its an even more boring off-season than usual. God, I can't wait for it to end.

Do I smell wood burning.

BTW I never said it was my Hummer.

Hamrob
05-22-2011, 09:15 AM
Hey Baha...why don't you move to Mexico! Good luck!

baja
05-22-2011, 09:42 AM
Hey Baha...why don't you move to Mexico! Good luck!
So it's a bad thing that Mexico is improving her self. It's a bad thing they are building a middle class. Are you afraid you will lose
your cheap unprotected labor source?

You guys are pathetic.

The dumbing down of America is complete. Game over...

bombquixote
05-22-2011, 09:43 AM
The most shocking thing to me in that article is how rapey Canadians apparently are.

Requiem
05-22-2011, 09:59 AM
The dumbing down of America is complete. Game over.

Are you going to muster up an answer for the questions I posed regarding U.S. and Mexican crime comparisons in the other thread?

R8R H8R
05-22-2011, 10:29 AM
So it's a bad thing that Mexico is improving her self. It's a bad thing they are building a middle class.

No, most of America would love to believe that Mexico is improving. It is in our best interest to have a thriving Mexico. But it won't be believed 'till the flow of illegals stop voluntarily.

Are you afraid you will lose
your cheap unprotected labor source?

No there is always the Koreans. j/k ;D

baja
05-22-2011, 11:02 AM
Are you going to muster up an answer for the questions I posed regarding U.S. and Mexican crime comparisons in the other thread?

i will invite you again to watch the charlie rose show i linked interviewing Calderon.

HERE:

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11664

If you had watched it you would not be asking these questions because all of them are answered there.

baja
05-22-2011, 11:08 AM
No, most of America would love to believe that Mexico is improving. It is in our best interest to have a thriving Mexico. But it won't be believed 'till the flow of illegals stop voluntarily.



No there is always the Koreans. j/k ;D


Do you think it is only Mexicans that sneak into the USA? Sure Mexicans are a high percentage of illegals but that has a lot to do with location (neighboring border).



The United States has the most economic opportunity of any country anywhere ever so of course other humans are going to try and become part of that incredible opportunity.

If you ask Native Americans you are all here illegally.

UberBroncoMan
05-22-2011, 11:22 AM
I'm now convinced you are just pissing with us. You go on about being green while talking about driving your H2 Hummer in the same thread. You invoke facts in the thread title and then argue that you don't need facts to know that area you live in. I get it, The lockout sucks and its an even more boring off-season than usual. God, I can't wait for it to end.

He's bored, so he's trolling. Not much else. It's like Cartman "Gay Fish" Syndrome.

ColoradoDarin
05-22-2011, 11:29 AM
He's bored, so he's trolling. Not much else. It's like Cartman "Gay Fish" Syndrome.

This.

He keeps posting about their presidente - as if politicians don't lie.

baja
05-22-2011, 11:52 AM
This.

He keeps posting about their presidente - as if politicians don't lie.

Calderon states facts in te interview along with opinion, as I have said so many times discount his opinion if you will but there is no disputing the stated facts. But then don't bother watching the vid and making up you own mind just keep stating yesterday's news like nothing ever changes.

Call the thread what you wish but lots of foolish people being exposed here and they don't even know it.

Again why is the idea of an improving Mexico so infuriating for some of you, that is the question you should be asking yourselves.

UberBroncoMan
05-22-2011, 12:17 PM
Again why is the idea of an improving Mexico so infuriating for some of you, that is the question you should be asking yourselves.

The idea of Mexico improving is something we all want. I'd love nothing more than to see people going back south to their families to solid paying jobs and lifestyles. Quite a few of them and their relatives still hold intense Mexican pride and don't give a **** about the USA, even though they're here taking advantage of payment that beats what they'd get back home. They're Mexicans through and through, and they deserve the ability to remain Mexicans in Mexico.

People aren't saying, "We hope Mexico stays a pile of **** and never progresses past anything other than a cesspool of corruption filled with a population that can't stop ****ing to save their own lives." You're trollish delusions that the country is actually something it isn't is what's filling this thread.

Did you know Vietnam is "progressing." Doesn't mean I'd want to live there. Did you know India has one of the largest economies in the world? How do you think a majority of the population lives (hint: poverty). Spouting gibberish and random numbers, and using a politician as your highpoint source is stupid as **** and has no basis with reality. Then again, I'd like to think you're not that stupid, hence why I think this is all troll fodder.

baja
05-22-2011, 12:43 PM
http://www.mexicopremiere.com/?p=1682

What is just getting underway is what many are calling the “Largest southern migration to Mexico of people and real estate assets since the Civil War” A significant percentage of the Baby Boomers have been doing the research and are making the life changing decision to move out of the U.S.A. The number one retirement destination in the world is Mexico. There are already over 2,000,000 US and Canadian property owners in Mexico. The most conservative number of American and Canadian Baby Boomers who are on their way to owning property in Mexico for full or part time living in the next 15 years is over 6,000,000. Do the math on 6,000,000 people buying a $300,000 house or condo and you will understand why the U.S. Government is trying to tax this massive shift of money to Mexico through H.R. 3056. The U.S. government calls this “The Tax Collection Responsibility Act of 2007”. Those who will have to pay it are calling this the EXIT TAX.

R8R H8R
05-22-2011, 01:17 PM
[QUOTE=baja;3188483]Do you think it is only Mexicans that sneak into the USA?

Never said I did, but completely irrelevant to my post.

Sure Mexicans are a high percentage of illegals but that has a lot to do with location (neighboring border).

In other news...water is wet! On the other hand, it also borders with Guatemala & Belize. Why don't they go there? Oh wait, you answer that below...

The United States has the most economic opportunity of any country anywhere ever so of course other humans are going to try and become part of that incredible opportunity.


This is one "fact" I'll agree with you on. But it is still completely irrelevant to your assertion that Mexico is safer and having great improvements economically. Maybe it is, but going from ****-hole to just a urinal isn't enough.

As I said in my post above, we Americans will believe it when the flow through the border stops voluntarily.

If you ask Native Americans you are all here illegally.


I don't doubt some of them do. I also don't doubt that the Aztecs think you and the Mexican nationals are in Mexico illegally.

2KBack
05-22-2011, 01:20 PM
American Indians don't think others are illegal, they didn't believe in "owning" any part of nature. We're just evil assholes...not illegal

Requiem
05-22-2011, 02:30 PM
If you had watched it you would not be asking these questions because all of them are answered there.

I asked for your discourse on it, not somebody else's.

Part of being a man in this world is standing up for yourself, speaking for yourself and not having other people speak for you.

You live in a remote region of the country generally uneffected by the notorious crime climate throughout the country (well documented, as many posters have pointed out time and time again), thus your view on safety and security in the nation is probably a little warped, and a little off.

Just like my view on crime and security living in Fargo is going to differentiate from someone who lives in inner-city Chicago who regularly gets to see rapes, murders and other hard crimes on their evening news blips.

It's all about experience.

You are trying to paint a rather abstract picture here making a rosey-picture on safety in Mexico, when that is hardly the case.

Hamrob
05-22-2011, 03:53 PM
http://www.mexicopremiere.com/?p=1682

What is just getting underway is what many are calling the “Largest southern migration to Mexico of people and real estate assets since the Civil War” A significant percentage of the Baby Boomers have been doing the research and are making the life changing decision to move out of the U.S.A. The number one retirement destination in the world is Mexico. There are already over 2,000,000 US and Canadian property owners in Mexico. The most conservative number of American and Canadian Baby Boomers who are on their way to owning property in Mexico for full or part time living in the next 15 years is over 6,000,000. Do the math on 6,000,000 people buying a $300,000 house or condo and you will understand why the U.S. Government is trying to tax this massive shift of money to Mexico through H.R. 3056. The U.S. government calls this “The Tax Collection Responsibility Act of 2007”. Those who will have to pay it are calling this the EXIT TAX.This has gone on for years. This isn't anything new. Haven't you heard of the "Snow-birds"? More so than Mexico, Americans are buying realestate in central and south America. You can get an offordable home with zero property tax and a view of the ocean for $300k. Those areas are starting to dry up more and more...but, where do Americans want to retire...Minnesota...Texas? No they head for the beach whereever they can afford it. And, Yes Mexico is still on their radar. Big deal...where's the news?

Comparing Mexico to the US in any shape or form is purely idiotic...even for you baja!

baja
05-22-2011, 04:48 PM
Ya you guys are right Mexico is dangerous as hell please stay in the safety of your own area and be happy TSA looks up your ass for bombs. Think I'll live life without fear like I always have and go where I please when I please.

Lock you doors now boys and girls so the home invaders don't get ya and watch out for the car jackers. Unless you are in Mexico that is we don't have those things here.

RaiderH8r
05-22-2011, 07:33 PM
Hell yes it is safer. America is a god damned war zone and every illegal immigrant currently residing here should be running, not walking, to get the f out of this place. Our weekly head pikings are a terror to behold and the war zones that constitute our inner cities are a hellish and twisted John Carpenteresque post apocolyptic vision of social breakdown and horror. GTFO while you can. I'll stay here and hold off the barbarian hordes while you illegals make for the Rio Grande. Quick, back the way you came!!!

GreatBronco16
05-22-2011, 08:22 PM
Ya you guys are right Mexico is dangerous as hell please stay in the safety of your own area and be happy TSA looks up your ass for bombs. Think I'll live life without fear like I always have and go where I please when I please.

Lock you doors now boys and girls so the home invaders don't get ya and watch out for the car jackers. Unless you are in Mexico that is we don't have those things here.

LOLHilarious!

Mexico, a better place to live than in the states?? Yeah, ok.

baja
05-22-2011, 09:03 PM
LOLHilarious!

Mexico, a better place to live than in the states?? Yeah, ok.


Oh ya that's what I said.... We got some real reading comprehension genius' here don't we.

It's different, it comes down to personal choice. We got a whole planet to live on unless of course you are frozen my nationalism which seems to be the case for most of you. Enjoy you limited lives ruled by fear and propaganda.

Me I'm off to Cuba soon....

2KBack
05-23-2011, 04:31 AM
Ya you guys are right Mexico is dangerous as hell please stay in the safety of your own area and be happy TSA looks up your ass for bombs. Think I'll live life without fear like I always have and go where I please when I please.

Lock you doors now boys and girls so the home invaders don't get ya and watch out for the car jackers. Unless you are in Mexico that is we don't have those things here.

You have to have nice cars and homes to have those.


In seriousness...****ty countries are just fine if you are one of the ones with money

alkemical
05-23-2011, 05:48 AM
You have to have nice cars and homes to have those.


In seriousness...****ty countries are just fine if you are one of the ones with money

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k82/amesj523/jumpyou****ers.jpg

Wall Street approves of your post.


IKEA Gives US 3rd World Status (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CFUQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fboingboing.net%2F2011%2F04%2F10%2 Fsweden-exports-sweat.html&rct=j&q=IKEA%20gives%20us%20third%20world%20status&ei=YVfaTcWiFYP20gHY7cTsDA&usg=AFQjCNGtdYmQyOc5Tg43RIEDJdze-MVnig&sig2=iMKnlBot1Z-hLSN_v9aQFA&cad=rja)

jhns
05-23-2011, 06:27 AM
LOL

Mexico is the place to be! Well, unless you are Mexican, of course... Then it is the place you can't wait to get out of. The people that made their money here and then moved to Mexico are sure loving it though. It allows them to live like kings as they exploit a third world country...

RaiderH8r
05-23-2011, 09:45 AM
Oh ya that's what I said.... We got some real reading comprehension genius' here don't we.

It's different, it comes down to personal choice. We got a whole planet to live on unless of course you are frozen my nationalism which seems to be the case for most of you. Enjoy you limited lives ruled by fear and propaganda.

Me I'm off to Cuba soon....

I'm locked in by my xenophobia but the rest of you f'ers should get the hell out while you can. This is a spooky, scary place. We need to look out for those less fortunate too and make sure they're safe so make sure to grab a homeless person as well as an illegal on your way out. Again, I am ashamed that my xenophobia limits me in how I look after my family's well being and safety. Thank God I cling to my guns and my bible. I will hold off the hordes while you guys make a break for it.

Wait, they have taken the bridge and the second hall. We have barred the gates but cannot hold them for long. The ground shakes, drums... drums in the deep. We cannot get out. A shadow lurks in the dark. We can not get out... they are coming. FLY YOU FOOLS!!

baja
05-23-2011, 09:51 AM
I'm locked in by my xenophobia but the rest of you f'ers should get the hell out while you can. This is a spooky, scary place. We need to look out for those less fortunate too and make sure they're safe so make sure to grab a homeless person as well as an illegal on your way out. Again, I am ashamed that my xenophobia limits me in how I look after my family's well being and safety. Thank God I cling to my guns and my bible. I will hold off the hordes while you guys make a break for it.

Wait, they have taken the bridge and the second hall. We have barred the gates but cannot hold them for long. The ground shakes, drums... drums in the deep. We cannot get out. A shadow lurks in the dark. We can not get out... they are coming. FLY YOU FOOLS!!

LOL

Post may be prophetic.

baja
05-23-2011, 01:59 PM
OPPORTUNITIES: WHY LOS CABOS/PUERTO VALLARTA & THE RIVIERA
NAYARIT?


The answer is simple and old fashioned: SUPPLY AND DEMAND.


The areas of Los Cabos/Puerto Vallarta/Riviera Nayarit inside the
Bay of Banderas is an investor‚s dream. This area has the
comprehensive infrastructure in place, world class hospitals and
dental care, natural investment protection from the Sierra Madre
Mountains, endless future water supply, low to nonexistent crime,
international airport, and limited supply inside the Bay, first
class private bilingual schools and higher than average
appreciation potential. Like many areas in Mexico there is large
demand for full and part time retirement living and a lot of
construction underway to meet this demand. Pre construction of
course is where the best bargains are available.


I would offer a word of caution for investors in Mexico. Do not
be seduced by the endless natural beauty that is everywhere, both
inland in colonial towns and along thousands of miles of beach.
Apply conservative medium and long term investment strategies
without emotion. The demand for full and part time living by
American and Canadian Baby Boomers is evident throughout the
country. The top two choice locations are ocean front, and ocean
view. The third overall choice, which is less expensive, is
inland in one of the many beautiful colonial towns or small
cities.


Mexico, with the world‚s 13th largest GDP, is no longer a „Third
World Country‰, but rather a fast growing, economically secure
state, as the most recent five-year history of its financial
markets when compared to the U.S.A.‚s financial markets
suggests.


DOW JONES AVERAGES
MAY 2004 10,200 MAY 2009 8,200 20% LOSS IN 5
YEARS


MEXICAN BOLSA
MAY 2004 10,000 MAY 2009 23,000 130% GAIN IN 5
YEARS

GreatBronco16
05-23-2011, 02:58 PM
Oh ya that's what I said.... We got some real reading comprehension genius' here don't we.

That is exactly what you are saying so don't try to sugar coat it. Oh wait, you are.

baja
05-23-2011, 10:10 PM
No I'm sayin;

"Having separate self consciousness doesn’t mean you are really separate, but
it does mean having a total ‘illusion’ of separateness from everyone and everything
else in the Universe. And when a person truly believes they are separate, they naturally
focus on themselves. And when someone believes they are separate, and they
focus their attention, and their energy, on their ‘self’, this naturally leads to ‘self’-
ishness. This is very important my son, pay close attention. This is the BIG issue.
The Big problem of all problems. The only REAL problem. As silly and simple as
it sounds, it is serious - simple selfishness is the root of all problems and ‘evils’
that exist on Earth. This is one of the greatest, most important teachings to understand,
so say it back to me - selfishness is the root of all problems and ‘evils’ that
exist on Earth.”
“Ok. Selfishness is the root of all problems and ‘evils’ that exist on Earth.”
“Good. And again, how does this selfishness come to exist?”
“Uh...”
“Where there is such separate consciousness as humans have, everyone perceives
everyone else in an ‘us and them’, and a ‘me against the world’ fashion.
When this occurs, which it naturally must with separateness, there will naturally be
attempts to get, or take, from others, and keep others from getting what you have.
It is perfectly natural, and in its own warped way, logical. And where does it all
leave us? Where there is separateness and selfishness, there will be strife, discord,
injustice, taking from others, harm to other beings, creatures, the environment,
etc.. So when someone says something about the problems of the world being
from political parties, or greed, or money, or war, or lust, or vanity, or carelessness,
or whatever, what do you say?”
“That they are only branches. The root of all problems, all evil, all suffering,
is selfishness.”
“And why is there selfishness and thus all these evils?”
“Because it is the natural outcome of separate self consciousness - of thinking
you are separate from the Universe, and thus all things in existence.”
“And so what is the only cure for evil, suffering, and all problems?”
“Losing separate consciousness and selfishness by regaining consciousness of
our Oneness with everything. Universal Consciousness.”
“And how can one regain Universal Consciousness?”
“Through Unselfish Love, self-sacrifice, caring, giving, seeing the illusions of
self consciousness that we carry with us in our mind, and breaking them.”
“Please don’t let the teachings that promote Oneness be misunderstood as
promoting a ‘one world religion or government’ where oneness and peace are
enforced by human rule or dogma. Nothing could be further from what we mean
to convey. We are first of all proponents of freedom, and free will. I’m talking
about an internal way of being, a consciousness, that includes sensitivity, compassion,
and freedom - and caring about all people, creatures, all creation, as much as
you do about your self.
“Are you saying all governments are bad?”
“No. Just incomplete, and that they won’t ever solve all the problems, or work
properly unless people themselves changchange inside. Certainly, some governments are
formed just to wield power for an elite group over the people. But sometimes gov
ernments are formed to administer, and insure justice between all the separate
beings it controls, but no form of government can really ‘work’, or last, when separate
consciousness exists. Why? Because the people running the government
have the same separate consciousness, and when they get power, you see the worst
of selfishness, and they can appeal to the selfishness in the populace, to get what
they want. When you stop and think about these things it is easier to understand
why the Children teach that only when all people have Universal Consciousness,
and everyone is primarily governed from within by the Universal Spirit, will there
ever be peace & harmony, and freedom from tyranny on Earth.”
“Why did you say it that way - on Earth.”
“Because there is so much more, and the Earth is just...."

- The Children of the One

Doggcow
05-23-2011, 10:27 PM
These stats tell the story as much as Felix Hernandez's Win Loss ratio told his story last year.

RaiderH8r
05-24-2011, 07:43 AM
Are you people getting your **** and getting the f out yet? Are you grabbing illegals and the homeless by the shirt collar, piling them a few hundred deep into a trailer and making for the border yet? You better because s### is starting to get real up in here.

Rohirrim
05-24-2011, 07:57 AM
I'm just trying to pick out a nice spot for my golden years. Here's a nice crib:

http://www.oakparkjournal.com/2010/mexico-poverty-2011-01.jpg

Of course, communal living also has advantages:

http://www.worst-city.com/pictures/slum-quarter-poverty-houses-poor-family-homes.jpg

Screw that. I'll stick with the resorts.
http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=18573774

baja
05-24-2011, 08:01 AM
Googled slums in usa;


http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=slums+in+usa

Tombstone RJ
05-24-2011, 08:07 AM
Nationalism is the problem.

I consider myself a citizen of the world.

ROFL!

baja
05-26-2011, 01:53 PM
Even the prisons are better in Mexico;

(AP) MEXICO CITY (AP) — Police have discovered a bar at prison in northern Mexico that served beer, tequila and vodka to inmates.

A spokesman for Chihuahua state's prosecutor for prisons says the deputy director of the prison where the bar was discovered has been fired. Spokesman Jorge Chaires said Wednesday that guards at the low-security prison are under investigation.

The bar was discovered Monday at the prison in Chihuahua city, the state capital. Federal police and state authorities confiscated 200 beer cans, 12 bottles of tequila and 20 bottles of vodka. The bar also had a billiard table.

Seventeen inmates, meanwhile, have escaped from another northern Mexican prison, apparently using a tunnel they had dug from the laundry room.

Requiem
05-26-2011, 02:28 PM
Lol, escaped convicts.

Play2win
05-26-2011, 02:37 PM
I guess Mexico would be so bad... if you didn't have to hear that crap-ass spanish all the ****ing time. mother ****ing anoying. Makes my head hurt even worse than bad country music. Which is still amazing to me... I didn't think anything would make my head worse than bad ****ing country music.

baja
05-26-2011, 02:42 PM
I guess Mexico would be so bad... if you didn't have to hear that crap-ass spanish all the ****ing time. mother ****ing anoying. Makes my head hurt even worse than bad country music. Which is still amazing to me... I didn't think anything would make my head worse than bad ****ing country music.

Are you implying there is good country music?


Actually I do like some of the older country. Don Williams, Willie Nelson, Waylon.

Listened to a ton of country when I lived in Cripple Creek CO.

Play2win
05-26-2011, 02:52 PM
Are you implying there is good country music?


Actually I do like some of the older country. Don Williams, Willie Nelson, Waylon.

Listened to a ton of country when I lived in Cripple Creek CO.

Well there is the man in black, but it seems any good country is really more actually folk.

baja
05-26-2011, 02:57 PM
Not a big fan of Jonny Cash the singer like the man though.

Popps
05-26-2011, 05:40 PM
Weird, I just saw the ice cream truck go down my street. Haven't seen this though...

http://mit.zenfs.com/102/2011/05/GettyImages_114562553.jpg

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110526/ts_yblog_thelookout/mexican-officials-seize-narcotank

Dr. Broncenstein
05-26-2011, 05:52 PM
Related slow Wednesday in Mexico news:

29 Killed in Drug Shootout (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/05/26/mexico-28-killed-drug-shootout-west-state/?test=latestnews)

baja
05-26-2011, 07:12 PM
28 drug gang members killed each other, how is that a bad thing?

Missouribronc
05-26-2011, 08:03 PM
28 drug gang members killed each other, how is that a bad thing?

There are 28 more to step in and fill their "positions" in the gang. This **** doesn't happen in the U.S., even as bad as our "gang" problem is. Sugar coat it all you want, but there just isn't a comparison.

Dr. Broncenstein
05-26-2011, 08:11 PM
From TFA:

"In Michoacan, officials said more than 700 people fled their villages amid fighting between rival drug traffickers, which appeared to be unrelated to the Nayarit conflict.
Michoacan state Civil Defense Director Carlos Mandujano said Wednesday that the villagers were given refuge at five shelters.
It is at least the second time a large number of rural residents have been displaced by drug violence in Mexico. In November, about 400 people in the northern border town of Ciudad Mier took refuge in the neighboring city of Ciudad Aleman following cartel gunbattles. That shelter has since been closed and most have returned to their homes."

baja
05-26-2011, 09:22 PM
http://www.yale.edu/gsp/publications/02_Kiernan.pdf

v2micca
05-27-2011, 04:35 AM
http://www.yale.edu/gsp/publications/02_Kiernan.pdf

Uh, that is another thread topic. If you want to complain about American handling of foreign conflict you may have a legitimate argument. But, that is a completely separate discussion. I thought we were discussing quality of life in Mexico vs. America. If you want to make a rebuttal to the good Doctor's last post, please link to a relevant article.

baja
05-27-2011, 06:39 AM
They are both wars. Gangs in Mexico are at war with each other.

We (USA) like to fight our wars in someone else's yard.

But make no mistake the danger in Mexico is because of a war and it will end eventually.

baja
05-27-2011, 06:44 AM
The war is about market share for the huge demand for illegal drugs by the US population and the US provides the assault weapons to make the war more efficient.

Not to mention scaring US citizens into spending their winter vacation dollars at home.

v2micca
05-27-2011, 07:14 AM
They are both wars. Gangs in Mexico are at war with each other.

We (USA) like to fight our wars in someone else's yard.

Damn straight. Tends to make the U.S. a much nicer place to live. Its a lesson the Europeans learned from us following WWII.

But make no mistake the danger in Mexico is because of a war and it will end eventually.

Well, when it does finally end, we can do a new comparison of the living conditions at that time. Until then, I tend to agree with the following Data.

http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/#/44444424534

Yes, the U.S.A. doesn't really top the list. But it still ranks significantly higher than Mexico.

worm
05-27-2011, 07:27 AM
Until then, I tend to agree with the following Data.

http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/#/44444424534

Yes, the U.S.A. doesn't really top the list. But it still ranks significantly higher than Mexico.

Interesting data. When you indicate Safety as the primary value you care about....Mexico has the biggest movement down that chart over all countries included. ie. Mexico is the least safe country on their scale.


Mexico Key Findings

Personal security is a core element for the well-being of individuals, and largely reflects the risks of people being physically assaulted or falling victim to other types of crime. Across the OECD, victimisation rates for conventional crime (theft, robbery, assault) have declined in the new millennium. In Mexico, 15% of people reported falling victim to assault over the previous 12 months, much higher than the OECD average of 4% and the highest rate in the OECD. 34% of people feel unsafe on the street after dark, higher than the OECD average of 26%.

The homicide rate (the number of murders per 100,000 inhabitants) is a more reliable measure of a country’s safety level because, unlike other crimes, murders are usually always reported to the police. According to the latest OECD data, Mexico’s homicide rate has increased from 7 in 2002 to 11.6, much higher than the OECD average and the highest in the OECD.


United States Key Findings

Personal security is a core element for the well-being of individuals, and largely reflects the risks of people being physically assaulted or falling victim to other types of crime. Across the OECD, victimisation rates for conventional crime (theft, robbery, assault) have declined in the new millennium. In the United States, 2% of people reported falling victim to assault over the previous 12 months, lower than the OECD average of 4%. 19% of people feel unsafe on the street after dark, also lower than the OECD average of 26%.

The homicide rate (the number of murders per 100,000 inhabitants) is a more reliable measure of a country’s safety level because, unlike other crimes, murders are usually always reported to the police. According to the latest OECD data, the United States’ homicide rate is 5.2, higher than the OECD average and one of the highest in the OECD.

baja
05-27-2011, 07:30 AM
Damn straight. Tends to make the U.S. a much nicer place to live. Its a lesson the Europeans learned from us following WWII.



<b>Well, when it does finally end, we can do a new comparison of the living conditions at that time.</b> Until then, I tend to agree with the following Data.

http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/#/44444424534

Yes, the U.S.A. doesn't really top the list. But it still ranks significantly higher than Mexico.

Living conditions?? There has never been a question which country has the better living conditions for the majority of the citizens. The US wins that one and there is no question about it.

baja
05-27-2011, 07:34 AM
There is a war going on in Mexico naturally the the per capata murder rate number will go up. That's why they call it war.

jhns
05-27-2011, 07:46 AM
There is a war going on in Mexico naturally the the per capata murder rate number will go up. That's why they call it war.

And it is always safer to live in a war zone!

Tombstone RJ
05-27-2011, 08:03 AM
The war is about market share for the huge demand for illegal drugs by the US population and the US provides the assault weapons to make the war more efficient.

Not to mention scaring US citizens into spending their winter vacation dollars at home.

Hilarious!

alkemical
05-27-2011, 08:05 AM
Americans do love their drugs.

TheReverend
05-27-2011, 08:40 AM
Americans do love their drugs.

Re-read the OP and what he's arguing. Clearly Mexicans love their drugs way more.

Tombstone RJ
05-27-2011, 08:48 AM
I love the way baja blames all of Mexico's problems on the US. If you ask him why all the illegal immigrants from the great and prosperous nation of Mexico continue to flood across the border into the ugly arm pit of the US he will claim--with a straight face--that it's due to the US ag. industry.

Forget about NAFTA and how Mexico has screwed the US with that deal, nope, baja won't recognize that hypocrisy. He is too amped up on what is wrong with the US, instead of what is wrong with Mexico.

alkemical
05-27-2011, 09:10 AM
I love the way baja blames all of Mexico's problems on the US. If you ask him why all the illegal immigrants from the great and prosperous nation of Mexico continue to flood across the border into the ugly arm pit of the US he will claim--with a straight face--that it's due to the US ag. industry.

Forget about NAFTA and how Mexico has screwed the US with that deal, nope, baja won't recognize that hypocrisy. He is too amped up on what is wrong with the US, instead of what is wrong with Mexico.

Corporations wanted NAFTA.

See Hershey as a great example.

alkemical
05-27-2011, 09:11 AM
Re-read the OP and what he's arguing. Clearly Mexicans love their drugs way more.

And....it still doesn't change the fact Americans love their drugs.

But obviously, the war on drugs is working phenomenally. The prison systems are booming, arms sales are booming, all sorts of good "government funding" available for contractors.

it's full of WIN!

Tombstone RJ
05-27-2011, 09:18 AM
Americans love their drugs.

Oh, I agree:

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ci9jA_4O3GI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

RaiderH8r
05-27-2011, 09:49 AM
I don't know what you people think you're doing but it isn't helping. The US is the suckzorz and we need to get the women and children, particularly of these poor, misguided and exploited souls who have illegally been lured by the American seductress to break the law and crossed the border, out as soon as possible. They need to get out first. Help them. Please. America is luring these people into overcrowded and overheated trucks; tempting them such that they risk their lives and the lives of their families to cross the border to be exploited. I implore you, as a moral imperative help these people get back home. Call ICE, they will make sure to escort them to the border so they may once again breathe the free air in the safety of Madre Mexico. Oh, and take the homeless too. They need help. It ain't safe on these city streets. Madre Mexico will provide for them.

alkemical
05-27-2011, 09:52 AM
I had a friend when i spent time on the streets, his name was dean.

Some guys left a bar, found him sleeping in a park, beat him up, set him on fire and pissed on him.

Tombstone RJ
05-27-2011, 09:59 AM
I had a friend when i spent time on the streets, his name was dean.

Some guys left a bar, found him sleeping in a park, beat him up, set him on fire and pissed on him.

that is too bad and unfortunate. the good news is the local hospital provided for his injuries at no cost to him and the local authorities are now involved to bring those involved to justice. No one here is claiming the US is perfect, and life in a "free" society often shows its darker side.

alkemical
05-27-2011, 10:29 AM
that is too bad and unfortunate. the good news is the local hospital provided for his injuries at no cost to him and the local authorities are now involved to bring those involved to justice. No one here is claiming the US is perfect, and life in a "free" society often shows its darker side.

Actually not really, the cops let those guys go, no charges filed... "Lack of evidence".

Dean, ended up dying 2 months later due to a staph infection due to complications from his injuries and lack of post/follow up care.

Next time, maybe you won't lie.

Meck77
05-27-2011, 10:31 AM
Forget Mexico. If you haven't been to Costa Rica yet do yourself a favor. There is some petty theft going on in Jan Jose but no drug war going on like Mexico.

You can enjoy both beaches Carribean and Pacific in the same trip! They are just a quick cheep flight away. Costa Rica is small but the majority of it is public lands! Amazing wildlife, lovely people, abundant fishing (they haven't over fished it like baja), hot springs that will blow you away (See Tobacon). I could go on and on. Heck Costa Rica doesn't even have an army.

Forget the war zone in Mexico. Those son of a bitches will knock you over the head for 10 bucks. The little thieves have been doing that for decades. If it's not the thieves that get you the damn police will jack you!

Do yourselves and your families a favor. Head to Costa Rica! Yah man!

Bronco Yoda
05-27-2011, 11:46 AM
Years ago I had some friends that took a trip down south of Cabo. was going to go but had to work. They slept on the beach. Awoke to find themselves hauled away to jail. The families had to 'buy' their freedom. When they asked where their cars weree... the tricked out 4x4 blazer and 60's convertible mustang mysteriously vanished. The authorities denied ever towing away those two vehicles... they just admitted to having the junkers in the group. The blazer was later tracked down driven by a mexican cop around in a nearby ****ty little town. The California plates still attached.

Tombstone RJ
05-27-2011, 12:51 PM
Actually not really, the cops let those guys go, no charges filed... "Lack of evidence".

Dean, ended up dying 2 months later due to a staph infection due to complications from his injuries and lack of post/follow up care.

Next time, maybe you won't lie.

You're still taking an isolated case and projecting it over the entire US. Next time, buy a clue.

baja
05-27-2011, 12:55 PM
I love the way baja blames all of Mexico's problems on the US. If you ask him why all the illegal immigrants from the great and prosperous nation of Mexico continue to flood across the border into the ugly arm pit of the US he will claim--with a straight face--that it's due to the US ag. industry.

Forget about NAFTA and how Mexico has screwed the US with that deal, nope, baja won't recognize that hypocrisy. He is too amped up on what is wrong with the US, instead of what is wrong with Mexico.

You guys crack me up with your knee jerk reactions jumping to protect who knows what.


Fact; The market for illegal drugs in in the prosperous United States - depute that

Fact; Assault weapons used by drug gangs used to kill one another plus some collateral damage are manufactured in the USA and are illegal in Mexico - dispute that

I never blamed all Mexico Problems on the USA. Mexico has severe systemic problems but they are moving in the right direction. That is my position. The first requirement for a discussion is to understand your opponents position. I have stated mine more that once but you continue to misrepresent my position.

alkemical
05-27-2011, 12:56 PM
You're still taking an isolated case and projecting it over the entire US. Next time, buy a clue.

You're still living in a fantasy world where justice exists for everyone!

next time, keep your mouth shut.

Tombstone RJ
05-27-2011, 12:58 PM
You're still living in a fantasy world where justice exists for everyone!

next time, keep your mouth shut.

You brought your friend up brosef. And I said there's risks to living in a free society AND I said no one claimed the US is perfect. Sorry about your friend.

alkemical
05-27-2011, 12:59 PM
You guys crack me up with your knee jerk reactions jumping to protect who knows what.


Fact; The market for illegal drugs in in the prosperous United States - depute that

Fact; Assault weapons used by drug gangs used to kill one another plus some collateral damage are manufactured in the USA and are illegal in Mexico - dispute that

I never blamed all Mexico Problems on the USA. Mexico has severe systemic problems but they are moving in the right direction. That is my position. The first requirement for a discussion is to understand your opponents position. I have stated mine more that once but you continue to misrepresent my position.

Baja,

Suburban Americans generally don't seem to be able to think beyond what they're told to think.

alkemical
05-27-2011, 01:00 PM
You brought your friend up brosef. And I said there's risks to living in a free society AND I said no one claimed the US is perfect. Sorry about your friend.


Wake me up when we are in a free society.

I have seen things done to people that you wouldn't believe. It's all condoned because nobody gives a **** about the poor.

baja
05-27-2011, 01:03 PM
Another thing that cracks me up is there guys posting on this thread that (without knowing anything about me) calling me a coward yet they are afraid to come to Mexico because of a drug war going on in a few isolated areas.

It's like shunning the USA because they had a bad experience in South Central LA.

Tombstone RJ
05-27-2011, 01:04 PM
You guys crack me up with your knee jerk reactions jumping to protect who knows what.


Fact; The market for illegal drugs in in the prosperous United States - depute that

Fact; Assault weapons used by drug gangs used to kill one another plus some collateral damage are manufactured in the USA and are illegal in Mexico - dispute that

I never blamed all Mexico Problems on the USA. Mexico has severe systemic problems but they are moving in the right direction. That is my position. The first requirement for a discussion is to understand your opponents position. I have stated mine more that once but you continue to misrepresent my position.

LOL

You are the one who misrepresents yourself.

FACT: there are still thousands and thousands of illegals crossing the border from Mexico into the US for a better life for themselves and their families. Until you dispute this fact, the rest of your social agenda is gibberish IMHO.

alkemical
05-27-2011, 01:06 PM
hey our 3rd world status for labor ratings is going to make us equal soon.

baja
05-27-2011, 01:07 PM
LOL

You are the one who misrepresents yourself.

FACT: there are still thousands and thousands of illegals crossing the border from Mexico into the US for a better life for themselves and their families. Until you dispute this fact, the rest of your social agenda is gibberish IMHO.

That is an issue for another thread. There are complex reasons for the migration. It is not all bad for the USA and it is not all good for Mexico. You see only the part of the issue that affects you, you know the part that makes you afraid.

Tombstone RJ
05-27-2011, 01:09 PM
Wake me up when we are in a free society.

do you know how badly this statement contradicts your very next statement?

I have seen things done to people that you wouldn't believe. It's all condoned because nobody gives a **** about the poor.

On one and you say there's no such thing as a free society and in the very next statement you talk about the ills of a free society.

Oh the irony, oh the travesty of your position!

Tombstone RJ
05-27-2011, 01:10 PM
That is an issue for another thread. There are complex reasons for the migration. It is not all bad for the USA and it is not all good for Mexico. You see only the part of the issue that affects you, you know the part that makes you afraid.

Hilarious!

yet more bs for baja, congrats on being two faced.

Jason7730
05-27-2011, 01:29 PM
Is this the United Staes fault?
Mexico City (CNN) -- While an estimated 10,000 women are victims of human trafficking in Mexico's capital, there were only 40 investigations of the crime and three convictions in the city last year, according to a report issued this week.
The discrepancy is an "alarming figure" that shows a need to improve laws and policies, according to a study on human trafficking and sexual exploitation from Mexico City's human rights commission, which calls the phenomenon a "new form of slavery."
"The authorities are not investigating, nor are they asking witnesses," said Eva Reyes, investigation coordinator at the Antonio de Montesinos Center for Social and Cultural Studies, one of the partners of the study.
Cultural norms and social stigma prevent people from realizing that many prostitutes lingering in dark alleys of Mexico City are victims, officials said as they presented the report Wednesday.
"They are seen as people who are doing it freely. That is the first obstacle to justice," Reyes said.
More on modern-day slavery: The CNN Freedom Project (http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/)
Authorities in Mexico City announced Monday that they had rescued 62 victims of a forced-prostitution ring -- including a 13-year-old girl.
Five men and two women who police say ran the ring were arrested after an investigation that started when a minor involved reported the suspects to authorities.
One victim told investigators that she was forced into prostitution in Mexico City after meeting two men in Oaxaca, a city more than 460 kilometers (288 miles) away.
"After chatting with her, the victim told him that she was a domestic worker and the accused offered her a more comfortable life with well-paid work, and in a second encounter he convinced her to come live with him," the statement said.
Such approaches are a common tactic for those involved in human trafficking, who frequently target women and girls in smaller cities outside the capital, Reyes said.
In the southern border state of Chiapas, Central American women are frequently a target, Reyes said.
But regardless of where victims are recruited, she said, they often pass through -- or end up -- in Mexico City, a sprawling metropolis of more than 21 million people.
"In one case, 107 trafficking victims, both Mexican and foreign citizens, were freed from a factory disguised as a drug rehabilitation center in Mexico City; many of them had been kidnapped, and all were subjected to forced labor," according to 2010 report on human trafficking from the U.S. State Department.
The State Department report noted that authorities had conducted raids on brothels suspected in human trafficking and a special prosecutor for trafficking in Mexico City sentenced one offender to 10 years in prison last year, "the first sentence under Mexico's federal anti-trafficking law and Mexico City's local anti-trafficking law."
But more needs to be done, this week's human rights commission report said.
"The high number of women who are victims of human trafficking are not achieving access to judicial resources and because of this, the large majority of these incidents remain in impunity. ... Their rights remain unprotected," it said.
CNN's Catherine E. Shoichet contributed to this report

Jason7730
05-27-2011, 01:37 PM
Forget Mexico. If you haven't been to Costa Rica yet do yourself a favor. There is some petty theft going on in Jan Jose but no drug war going on like Mexico.

You can enjoy both beaches Carribean and Pacific in the same trip! They are just a quick cheep flight away. Costa Rica is small but the majority of it is public lands! Amazing wildlife, lovely people, abundant fishing (they haven't over fished it like baja), hot springs that will blow you away (See Tobacon). I could go on and on. Heck Costa Rica doesn't even have an army.

Forget the war zone in Mexico. Those son of a b****es will knock you over the head for 10 bucks. The little thieves have been doing that for decades. If it's not the thieves that get you the damn police will jack you!

Do yourselves and your families a favor. Head to Costa Rica! Yah man!

Meck, my brother has a condo on the Pacific side right on the ocean ( playa Flamingo) and it is very beautiful! We went to The Tabcon resort and hot springs and it was really totally awesome! ( and an interesting drive to get there). I think the Volcano ( which erupts almost everyday) is in the second Jurrasic Park movie? Costa Rica is a great place to go, they treat Americans very well, and I can't wait to go back! Great place, inho.

elsid13
05-27-2011, 02:47 PM
http://mit.zenfs.com/102/2011/05/GettyImages_114562553.jpg

This is seized armored vehicle being used by Mexico Drug Gangs.

Authorities in Jalisco, Mexico, recently seized this tricked-out 2011 Ford F-350 Super Duty truck, above, that had been transformed by drug gang members into an obviously DIY armored vehicle. The steel-plated "Z Monster," as the truck was called, could fit 20 men and was outfitted with a rotating machine gun turret.

Drug gangs are crafting armored "narcotanks" in order to battle the Mexican military--and each other. Security forces complain they're battling gangs that are better armed than they are. In Colombia, gangs have been caught using homemade submarines, and other cartels use ultra-light airplanes to transport drugs to the United States without grabbing the attention of the Border Patrol

Rest of the story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110526/ts_yblog_thelookout/mexican-officials-seize-narcotank.

baja
05-27-2011, 03:04 PM
http://mit.zenfs.com/102/2011/05/GettyImages_114562553.jpg

This is seized armored vehicle being used by Mexico Drug Gangs.

Authorities in Jalisco, Mexico, recently seized this tricked-out 2011 Ford F-350 Super Duty truck, above, that had been transformed by drug gang members into an obviously DIY armored vehicle. The steel-plated "Z Monster," as the truck was called, could fit 20 men and was outfitted with a rotating machine gun turret.

Drug gangs are crafting armored "narcotanks" in order to battle the Mexican military--and each other. Security forces complain they're battling gangs that are better armed than they are. In Colombia, gangs have been caught using homemade submarines, and other cartels use ultra-light airplanes to transport drugs to the United States without grabbing the attention of the Border Patrol

Rest of the story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110526/ts_yblog_thelookout/mexican-officials-seize-narcotank.

A favorite trick here is the drug cartels steal a gringo's light plane parked at some lonely airstrip in rural Mexico fly the drugs to the Atizona dessert and burn the plane when unloaded.

T

A friend told me a story that happened to a friend of his. The uy had just flown to his paradise home on a lonely beach somewhere in Baja Sur. There was a landing strip nearby the cluster of homes. the guy was awakened by the sound of a plane one night and commented to his wife, "That sounds like my plane". Sure enough he went out just in time to see his plane taking off. He figured the people he filed his flight plan with tipped of the drug cartel and they stole the plane. The drug cartels have so much money that is a poor country like Mexico they are almost impossible to stop. Currently the government is using the military to combat.


The drug cartels are a huge problem here never said they were not but to say all of Mexico is unsafe is just not true.

elsid13
05-27-2011, 03:12 PM
A favorite trick here is the drug cartels steal a gringo's light plane parked at some lonely airstrip in rural Mexico fly the drugs to the Atizona dessert and burn the plane when unloaded.

T

A friend told me a story that happened to a friend of his. The uy had just flown to his paradise home on a lonely beach somewhere in Baja Sur. There was a landing strip nearby the cluster of homes. the guy was awakened by the sound of a plane one night and commented to his wife, "That sounds like my plane". Sure enough he went out just in time to see his plane taking off. He figured the people he filed his flight plan with tipped of the drug cartel and they stole the plane. The drug cartels have so much money that is a poor country like Mexico they are almost impossible to stop. Currently the government is using the military to combat.


The drug cartels are a huge problem here never said they were not but to say all of Mexico is unsafe is just not true.

I am not saying that Mexico as whole is unsafe, but there are certain areas that are reaching level of violence and corruption that they are boarding on failed state status. Hopefully there is Colombia style correction to get the country better.

baja
05-27-2011, 03:27 PM
I am not saying that Mexico as whole is unsafe, but there are certain areas that are reaching level of violence and corruption that they are boarding on failed state status. Hopefully there is Colombia style correction to get the country better.

Thankfully the military is starting to get things under control for example Tijuana is much safer than two years ago. The worst is Ciudad Juarez, might be the most dangerous city in the world right now. It's 1 mile from El Paso Texas and about 1500 miles from Cabo

http://www.funjet.com/about/mexico-travel-alert.asp?plCode=

El Minion
05-27-2011, 04:04 PM
Don't know if this has been posted before because I'm not following this thread but when I clicked on the OT-Oklahoma Vigilante justice (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=80927&page=11) thread and saw the post about Nationmaster (http://www.nationmaster.com/about_us.php) website on crimes per country I did a double take and thought of this Baja thread. Site appears legit but their results are nonetheless interesting to say the least. Columbia & Venezuela way safer than New Zealand, Finland and Denmark, sure goes against current general stereotype. :kiddingme


<table class="body sortable" style="width: 100%;" border="0" cellpadding="3px" cellspacing="0"><thead><tr><th class="text" style="text-align: right;">Rank </th> <th class="text sort-alpha clickable"> Countries (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita#) http://tfw.cachefly.net/snm/images/nm/opacity.gif </th> <th class="text sort-numeric clickable" align="right"> Amount (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita#) http://tfw.cachefly.net/snm/images/nm/down.gif </th> </tr> </thead> <tbody><tr> <td class="td40"> # 1 </td> <td class="td155">Dominica (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/do-dominica/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">113.822 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 2 </td> <td class="td155">New Zealand (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/nz-new-zealand/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">105.881 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 3 </td> <td class="td155">Finland (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/fi-finland/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">101.526 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 4 </td> <td class="td155">Denmark (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/da-denmark/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">92.8277 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 5 </td> <td class="td155">Chile (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ci-chile/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">88.226 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 6 </td> <td class="td155">United Kingdom (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/uk-united-kingdom/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">85.5517 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 7 </td> <td class="td155">Montserrat (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/mh-montserrat/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">80.3982 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 8 </td> <td class="td155">United States (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/us-united-states/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">80.0645 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 9 </td> <td class="td155">Netherlands (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/nl-netherlands/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">79.5779 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 10 </td> <td class="td155">South Africa (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/sf-south-africa/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">77.1862 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 11 </td> <td class="td155">Germany (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/gm-germany/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">75.9996 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 12 </td> <td class="td155">Canada (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ca-canada/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">75.4921 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 13 </td> <td class="td155">Norway (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/no-norway/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">71.8639 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 14 </td> <td class="td155">France (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/fr-france/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">62.1843 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 15 </td> <td class="td155">Seychelles (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/se-seychelles/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">52.9265 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 16 </td> <td class="td155">Hungary (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/hu-hungary/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">44.9763 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 17 </td> <td class="td155">Estonia (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/en-estonia/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">43.3601 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 18 </td> <td class="td155">Czech Republic (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ez-czech-republic/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">38.2257 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 19 </td> <td class="td155">Italy (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/it-italy/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">37.9633 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 20 </td> <td class="td155">Switzerland (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/sz-switzerland/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">36.1864 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 21 </td> <td class="td155">Portugal (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/po-portugal/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">34.3833 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 22 </td> <td class="td155">Slovenia (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/si-slovenia/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">33.6236 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 23 </td> <td class="td155">Poland (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/pl-poland/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">32.8573 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 24 </td> <td class="td155">Korea, South (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ks-korea-south/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">31.7267 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 25 </td> <td class="td155">Mauritius (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/mp-mauritius/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">29.1982 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 26 </td> <td class="td155">Zimbabwe (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/zi-zimbabwe/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">28.8753 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 27 </td> <td class="td155">Lithuania (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/lh-lithuania/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">22.8996 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 28 </td> <td class="td155">Spain (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/sp-spain/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">22.8867 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 29 </td> <td class="td155">Latvia (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/lg-latvia/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">21.921 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 30 </td> <td class="td155">Uruguay (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/uy-uruguay/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">21.7017 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 31 </td> <td class="td155">Russia (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/rs-russia/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">20.5855 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 32 </td> <td class="td155">Ireland (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ei-ireland/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">20.2376 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 33 </td> <td class="td155">Bulgaria (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/bu-bulgaria/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">19.9886 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 34 </td> <td class="td155">Japan (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ja-japan/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">19.177 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 35 </td> <td class="td155">Romania (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ro-romania/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">16.4812 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 36 </td> <td class="td155">Slovakia (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/lo-slovakia/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">16.3537 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 37 </td> <td class="td155">Jamaica (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/jm-jamaica/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">14.3231 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 38 </td> <td class="td155">Belarus (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/bo-belarus/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">13.1592 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 39 </td> <td class="td155">Mexico (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/mx-mexico/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">12.8406 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 40 </td> <td class="td155">Tunisia (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ts-tunisia/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">12.5634 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 41 </td> <td class="td155">Costa Rica (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/cs-costa-rica/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">11.9788 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 42 </td> <td class="td155">Ukraine (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/up-ukraine/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">11.7793 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 43 </td> <td class="td155">Hong Kong (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/hk-hong-kong/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">11.6817 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 44 </td> <td class="td155">Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/mk-macedonia-republic-of/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">9.689 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 45 </td> <td class="td155">Greece (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/gr-greece/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">9.6347 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 46 </td> <td class="td155">Venezuela (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ve-venezuela/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">9.307 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 47 </td> <td class="td155">Thailand (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/th-thailand/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">8.80422 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 48 </td> <td class="td155">Moldova (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/md-moldova/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">8.58967 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 49 </td> <td class="td155">Kyrgyzstan (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/kg-kyrgyzstan/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">7.50486 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 50 </td> <td class="td155">Malaysia (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/my-malaysia/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">6.97921 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 51 </td> <td class="td155">Qatar (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/qa-qatar/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">6.76437 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 52 </td> <td class="td155">Zambia (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/za-zambia/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">5.27668 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 53 </td> <td class="td155">Colombia (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/co-colombia/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">4.98654 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 54 </td> <td class="td155">Turkey (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/tu-turkey/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">4.11252 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 55 </td> <td class="td155">Armenia (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/am-armenia/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">4.03889 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 56 </td> <td class="td155">Georgia (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/gg-georgia/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">3.21338 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 57 </td> <td class="td155">Papua New Guinea (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/pp-papua-new-guinea/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">2.39711 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 58 </td> <td class="td155">Azerbaijan (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/aj-azerbaijan/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">1.76416 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="td40"> # 59 </td> <td class="td155">India (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/in-india/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">1.63352 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> <tr class="graphHl"> <td class="td40"> # 60 </td> <td class="td155">Yemen (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ym-yemen/cri-crime):</td> <td class="td180">1.16109 per 1,000 people </td> <td class="td255">
</td> </tr> </tbody><tfoot> <tr> <td>
</td> <td align="left">Weighted average:</td> <td align="right">33.7 per 1,000 people </td></tr></tfoot></table>

elsid13
05-27-2011, 05:06 PM
Don't know if this has been posted before because I'm not following this thread but when I clicked on the OT-Oklahoma Vigilante justice (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=80927&page=11) thread and saw the post about Nationmaster (http://www.nationmaster.com/about_us.php) website on crimes per country I did a double take and thought of this Baja thread. Site appears legit but their results are nonetheless interesting to say the least. Columbia & Venezuela way safer than New Zealand, Finland and Denmark, sure goes against current general stereotype. :kiddingme




Or those countries have better open reporting systems.

baja
05-27-2011, 08:58 PM
Or those countries have better open reporting systems.

I agree this is a factor, to what degree I don't know.

mhgaffney
05-29-2011, 12:10 PM
Is this the United Staes fault?
Mexico City (CNN) -- While an estimated 10,000 women are victims of human trafficking in Mexico's capital, there were only 40 investigations of the crime and three convictions in the city last year, according to a report issued this week.
The discrepancy is an "alarming figure" that shows a need to improve laws and policies, according to a study on human trafficking and sexual exploitation from Mexico City's human rights commission, which calls the phenomenon a "new form of slavery."
"The authorities are not investigating, nor are they asking witnesses," said Eva Reyes, investigation coordinator at the Antonio de Montesinos Center for Social and Cultural Studies, one of the partners of the study.
Cultural norms and social stigma prevent people from realizing that many prostitutes lingering in dark alleys of Mexico City are victims, officials said as they presented the report Wednesday.
"They are seen as people who are doing it freely. That is the first obstacle to justice," Reyes said.
More on modern-day slavery: The CNN Freedom Project (http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/)
Authorities in Mexico City announced Monday that they had rescued 62 victims of a forced-prostitution ring -- including a 13-year-old girl.
Five men and two women who police say ran the ring were arrested after an investigation that started when a minor involved reported the suspects to authorities.
One victim told investigators that she was forced into prostitution in Mexico City after meeting two men in Oaxaca, a city more than 460 kilometers (288 miles) away.
"After chatting with her, the victim told him that she was a domestic worker and the accused offered her a more comfortable life with well-paid work, and in a second encounter he convinced her to come live with him," the statement said.
Such approaches are a common tactic for those involved in human trafficking, who frequently target women and girls in smaller cities outside the capital, Reyes said.
In the southern border state of Chiapas, Central American women are frequently a target, Reyes said.
But regardless of where victims are recruited, she said, they often pass through -- or end up -- in Mexico City, a sprawling metropolis of more than 21 million people.
"In one case, 107 trafficking victims, both Mexican and foreign citizens, were freed from a factory disguised as a drug rehabilitation center in Mexico City; many of them had been kidnapped, and all were subjected to forced labor," according to 2010 report on human trafficking from the U.S. State Department.
The State Department report noted that authorities had conducted raids on brothels suspected in human trafficking and a special prosecutor for trafficking in Mexico City sentenced one offender to 10 years in prison last year, "the first sentence under Mexico's federal anti-trafficking law and Mexico City's local anti-trafficking law."
But more needs to be done, this week's human rights commission report said.
"The high number of women who are victims of human trafficking are not achieving access to judicial resources and because of this, the large majority of these incidents remain in impunity. ... Their rights remain unprotected," it said.
CNN's Catherine E. Shoichet contributed to this report

Some large US companies/banks have been implicated in human trafficking. Try a google.

mhgaffney
05-29-2011, 12:13 PM
One big part of the solution to the violence on the border would be to legalize cocaine and heroin.

This is not to say that drug use is good -- but it's much better to have the problem out in the open.

Legalizing drugs will eliminate at one fell swoop the profit motive that drives the cartels, the money laundering -- not to mention the CIA slush funds that pay for all manner of black ops.

Legalization will help restore our civil liberties.

'

mhgaffney
05-29-2011, 12:24 PM
With regard to the question about US involvement in human trafficking -- check this out. This story was posted last December.

You tax dollars are paying for sex slave operations.

It's yet another reason to end the wars.

MHG


Wikileaks Reveals U.S. Tax Dollars Fund Child Sex Slavery in Afghanistan

http://news.change.org/stories/wikileaks-reveals-us-tax-dollars-fund-child-sex-slavery-in-afghanistan
by Amanda Kloer · December 08, 2010


The now infamous Wikileaks recently released a cable from Afghanistan revealing U.S. government contractor DynCorp threw a party for Afghan security recruits featuring trafficked boys as the entertainment. Bacha bazi is the Afghan tradition of "boy play" where young boys are dressed up in women's clothing, forced to dance for leering men, and then sold for sex to the highest bidder. Apparently this is the sort of "entertainment" funded by your tax dollars when DynCorp is in charge of security in Afghanistan.

DynCorp is a government contractor which has been providing training for Afghan security and police forces for several years. Though the company is about as transparent as a lead-coated rock, most reports claim over 95% of their budget comes from U.S. taxpayers. That's the same budget that DynCorp used to pay for a party in Kunduz Province for some Afghan police trainees. The entertainment for the evening was bacha bazi boys, whose pimps were paid so the boys would sing and dance for the recruits and then be raped by them afterward. That's your tax dollars at work -- fighting terrorism and extremism in Afghnistan by trafficking little boys for sex with cops-in-training.

In fact, the evidence linking DynCorp to bacha bazi was so damning, Afghan Minister of the Interior Hanif Atmar tried to quash the story. Upon hearing a journalist was investigating DynCorp and the U.S. government's funding of the sex trafficking of young boys in Afghanistan, Atmar warned any publication of the story would "endanger lives," and requested the U.S. suppress the story. Atmar admitted he had arrested eleven Afghans nationals as "facilitators" of the bacha bazi party. But he was only charging them with "purchasing a service from a child," which is illegal under Sharia law and the civil code. And in this case "services" is not used as a euphemism for sex; so far, no one is being held accountable for the young boys whose rapes were paid for by the U.S. taxpayers.

As if this story couldn't get any more outrageous, Atmar went on to say that if news of the incident got out, he was "worried about the image of foreign mentors". In other words, why should something as piddling as the humiliation, objectification, sale, and rape of some children tarnish the good name of DynCorp and all the work (read: money) they're doing in Afghanistan? After all, bacha bazi is growing in popularity in Afghanistan, especially in areas like Kunduz. Why shouldn't U.S. government contractors be able to win local favor by pimping young boys?

Of course, this isn't the first time DynCorp has used U.S. tax dollars to support sex trafficking. In Bosnia in 1999, Kathryn Bolkovac was fired from the company after blowing the whistle on DynCorp's staffers pimping out girls as young as 12 from Eastern European countries. DynCorp settled a lawsuit involving Bolkovac, and her story was recently featured in The Whistleblower, where she was portrayed by Rachel Weiss. It's a happy ending for one DynCorp whistle blower, but will there be a Bolkovac in Afghanistan?

It's time American taxpayers demanded a zero tolerance policy on our money being used to support child sex trafficking overseas. Tell the UN Mission to Afghanistan the time has come to crack down on those who buy and sell boys in bacha bazi, whether they're Afghans or U.S. government contractors, security personnel or citizens. No one should be able to traffic children so sex and get away with it, and that includes repeat offender DynCorp. We have a right to demand our tax dollars go to fight trafficking, not support it. And we have a right to demand the U.S. government and their contractors be held accountable for exploiting the boys of Afghanistan.

Meck77
05-30-2011, 01:18 PM
If you guys want the real stories of what is happening in Mexico then cruise this website. It's the orangemane for Americans living in Baja.

Odysseus....I'm pointing this forum out to you specifically since you said you are considering living in Mexico. Years ago I considered buying a place in Mexico and I thank God I did not.

Baja can sugar coat what's happening in Mexico all he wants. The hundreds of people living down there who post on this forum tell a much different story.

Here is just one. http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=52944

Pretty common to get hustled by the police. http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=52510 It's funny that a poster would even justify it by saying "You should know better than to carry money in Baja". ;D

baja
05-30-2011, 01:35 PM
Here's the place you call a desert waste land (from the site you linked).

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=53170

Meck77
05-30-2011, 01:37 PM
Travel Warning
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Bureau of Consular Affairs

Mexico
April 22, 2011

The Department of State has issued this Travel Warning to inform U.S. citizens traveling to and living in Mexico about the security situation in Mexico. This Travel Warning supersedes the Travel Warning for Mexico dated September 10, 2010 to consolidate and update information about the security situation and to advise the public of additional restrictions on the travel of U.S. government personnel.

Millions of U.S. citizens safely visit Mexico each year, including more than 150,000 who cross the border every day for study, tourism or business and at least one million U.S. citizens who live in Mexico. The Mexican government makes a considerable effort to protect U.S. citizens and other visitors to major tourist destinations. Resort areas and tourist destinations in Mexico generally do not see the levels of drug-related violence and crime reported in the border region and in areas along major trafficking routes. Nevertheless, crime and violence are serious problems and can occur anywhere. While most victims of violence are Mexican citizens associated with criminal activity, the security situation poses serious risks for U.S. citizens as well.

It is imperative that you understand the risks involved in travel to Mexico and how best to avoid dangerous situations. Common-sense precautions such as visiting only legitimate business and tourist areas during daylight hours, and avoiding areas where criminal activity might occur, can help ensure that travel to Mexico is safe and enjoyable.
General Conditions

Since 2006, the Mexican government has engaged in an extensive effort to combat transnational criminal organizations (TCOs). The TCOs, meanwhile, have been engaged in a vicious struggle to control drug trafficking routes and other criminal activity. According to Government of Mexico figures, 34,612 people have been killed in narcotics-related violence in Mexico since December 2006. More than 15,000 narcotics-related homicides occurred in 2010, an increase of almost two-thirds compared to 2009. Most of those killed in narcotics-related violence since 2006 have been members of TCOs. However, innocent persons have also been killed as have Mexican law enforcement and military personnel.

There is no evidence that U.S. tourists have been targeted by criminal elements due to their citizenship. Nonetheless, while in Mexico you should be aware of your surroundings at all times and exercise particular caution in unfamiliar areas. Bystanders, including U.S. citizens, have been injured or killed in violent incidents in various parts of the country, especially, but not exclusively in the northern border region, demonstrating the heightened risk of violence throughout Mexico. TCOs, meanwhile, engage in a wide-range of criminal activities that can directly impact U.S. citizens, including kidnapping, armed car-jacking, and extortion that can directly impact U.S. citizens. The number of U.S. citizens reported to the Department of State as murdered in Mexico increased from 35 in 2007 to 111 in 2010.

The Mexican government has deployed federal police and military personnel throughout the country as part of its efforts to combat the TCOs. U.S. citizens traveling on Mexican roads and highways may encounter government checkpoints, which are often staffed by military personnel. You are advised to cooperate with personnel at government checkpoints and mobile military patrols. TCOs have erected their own unauthorized checkpoints, and killed or abducted motorists who have failed to stop at them.

Violence along Mexican roads and highways is a particular concern in the northern border region. As a result, effective July 15, 2010, the U.S. Mission in Mexico imposed restrictions on U.S. government employees' travel. U.S. government employees and their families are not permitted to drive from the U.S.-Mexico border to or from the interior of Mexico or Central America. Travel by vehicle is permitted between Hermosillo and Nogales.

While violent incidents have occurred at all hours of the day and night on both modern toll ("cuotas") highways and on secondary roads, they have occurred most frequently at night and on isolated roads. To reduce risk, you are strongly urged to travel only during daylight hours throughout Mexico, to avoid isolated roads, and to use toll roads whenever possible. For more information on road safety and crime along Mexico's roadways, see the Department of State's Country Specific Information.

Due to ongoing violence and persistent security concerns, you are urged to defer non-essential travel to the states of Tamaulipas and Michoacán, and to parts of the states of Sonora, Chihuahua, Coahuila, Sinaloa, Durango, Zacatecas, San Luis Potosi and Jalisco. Details on these locations, and other areas in which travelers should exercise caution, are below.
Violence along the U.S. - Mexico Border

You should be especially aware of safety and security concerns when visiting the northern border states of Northern Baja California, Sonora, Chihuahua, Nuevo Leon, and Tamaulipas. Much of the country's narcotics-related violence has occurred in the border region. More than a third of all U.S. citizens killed in Mexico in 2010 whose deaths were reported to the U.S. government were killed in the border cities of Ciudad Juarez and Tijuana. Narcotics-related homicide rates in the border states of Nuevo Leon and Tamaulipas have increased dramatically in the past two years.

Carjacking and highway robbery are serious problems in many parts of the border region and U.S. citizens have been murdered in such incidents. Most victims who complied with carjackers at these checkpoints have reported that they were not physically harmed. Incidents have occurred during the day and at night, and carjackers have used a variety of techniques, including bumping moving vehicles to force them to stop and running vehicles off the road at high speed. There are some indications that criminals have particularly targeted newer and larger vehicles with U.S. license plates, especially dark-colored SUVs. However, victims' vehicles have included those with both Mexican and American registration and vary in type from late model SUVs and pick-up trucks to old sedans.

If you make frequent visits to border cities, you should vary your route and park in well-lighted, guarded and paid parking lots. Exercise caution when entering or exiting vehicles.

Large firefights between rival TCOs or TCOs and Mexican authorities have taken place in towns and cities in many parts of Mexico, especially in the border region. Firefights have occurred in broad daylight on streets and in other public venues, such as restaurants and clubs. During some of these incidents, U.S. citizens have been trapped and temporarily prevented from leaving the area. The location and timing of future armed engagements cannot be predicted. You are urged to defer travel to those areas mentioned in this Travel Warning and to exercise extreme caution when traveling throughout the northern border region.

Northern Baja California: Targeted TCO assassinations continue to take place in Northern Baja California, including the city of Tijuana. You should exercise caution in this area, particularly at night. In late 2010, turf battles between criminal groups proliferated and resulted in numerous assassinations in areas of Tijuana frequented by U.S. citizens. Shooting incidents, in which innocent bystanders have been injured, have occurred during daylight hours throughout the city. In one such incident, an American citizen was shot and seriously wounded.

Nogales and Northern Sonora: You are advised to exercise caution in the city of Nogales. Northern Sonora is a key region in the international drug and human trafficking trades, and can be extremely dangerous for travelers. The U.S. Consulate requires that armored vehicles are used for official travel in the consular district of Nogales, including certain areas within the city of Nogales. The region west of Nogales, east of Sonoyta, and from Caborca north, including the towns of Saric, Tubutama and Altar, and the eastern edge of Sonora bordering Chihuahua, are known centers of illegal activity. You should defer non-essential travel to these areas.

You are advised to exercise caution when visiting the coastal town of Puerto Peñasco. In the past year there have been multiple incidents of TCO-related violence, including the shooting of the city's police chief. U.S. citizens visiting Puerto Peñasco are urged to cross the border at Lukeville, AZ, to limit driving through Mexico and to limit travel to main roads during daylight hours.

Ciudad Juarez and Chihuahua: The situation in the state of Chihuahua, specifically Ciudad Juarez, is of special concern. Ciudad Juarez has the highest murder rate in Mexico. Mexican authorities report that more than 3,100 people were killed in Ciudad Juarez in 2010. Three persons associated with the Consulate General were murdered in March, 2010. You should defer non-essential travel to Ciudad Juarez and to the Guadalupe Bravo area southeast of Ciudad Juarez. U.S. citizens should also defer non-essential travel to the northwest quarter of the state of Chihuahua. From the United States, these areas are often reached through the Columbus, NM, and Fabens and Fort Hancock, TX, ports-of-entry. In both areas, U.S. citizens have been victims of narcotics-related violence. There have been incidents of narcotics-related violence in the vicinity of the Copper Canyon in Chihuahua.

Durango, Coahuila and Zacatecas: Between 2006 and 2010, the number of narcotics-related murders in the State of Durango increased dramatically. Several areas in the state have seen sharp increases in violence and remain volatile and unpredictable. U.S. government employees are restricted from traveling to the cities of Durango and Gomez Palacio. You should defer non-essential travel to these cities.

The State of Coahuila has also experienced an increase in violent crimes and narcotics-related murders. U.S. government employees are restricted from traveling to the area known as "La Laguna", including the city of Torreon, and the city of Saltillo within the state. You should defer non-essential travel to this area, as well as to the cities of Piedras Negras and Ciudad Acuña due to frequent incidents of TCO-related violence.

The northwestern portion of the state of Zacatecas has become notably dangerous and insecure. Robberies and carjackings are occurring with increased frequency and both local authorities and residents have reported a surge in observed TCO activity. This area is remote, and local authorities are unable to regularly patrol it or quickly respond to incidents that occur there. The Consulate General in Monterrey restricts travel for U.S. government employees to the city of Fresnillo and the area extending northwest from Fresnillo along Highway 45 (Fresnillo-Sombrete) between Highways 44 and 49. In addition, highway 49 northwards from Fresnillo through Durango and in to Chihuahua is isolated and should be considered dangerous. You should defer non-essential travel to these areas.

Monterrey and Nuevo Leon: The level of violence and insecurity in Monterrey remains elevated. Local police and private patrols do not have the capacity to deter criminal elements or respond effectively to security incidents. As a result of a Department of State assessment of the overall security situation, on September 10, 2010, the Consulate General in Monterrey became a partially unaccompanied post with no minor dependents of U.S. government employees permitted.

TCOs continue to use stolen cars and trucks to create roadblocks or "blockades" on major thoroughfares, preventing the military or police from responding to criminal activity in Monterrey and the surrounding areas. Travelers on the highways between Monterrey and the United States (notably through Nuevo Laredo and Matamoros/Reynosa) have been targeted for robbery that has resulted in violence. They have also been caught in incidents of gunfire between criminals and Mexican law enforcement. In 2010, TCOs kidnapped guests out of reputable hotels in the downtown Monterrey area, blocking off adjoining streets to prevent law enforcement response. TCOs have also regularly attacked local government facilities, prisons and police stations, and engaged in public shootouts with the military and between themselves. Pedestrians and innocent bystanders have been killed in these incidents.

The number of kidnappings and disappearances in Monterrey, and increasingly throughout Monterrey's consular district, is of particular concern. Both the local and expatriate communities have been victimized and local law enforcement has provided little to no response. In addition, police have been implicated in some of these incidents. Travelers and residents are strongly advised to lower their profile and avoid displaying any evidence of wealth that might draw attention.

Tamaulipas: You should defer non-essential travel to the state of Tamaulipas. In an effort to prevent the military or police from responding to criminal activity, TCOs have set up roadblocks or "blockades" in various parts of Nuevo Laredo in which armed gunmen carjack and rob unsuspecting drivers. These blockades occur without warning and at all times, day and night. The Consulate General prohibits employees from entering the entertainment zone in Nuevo Laredo known as "Boys Town" because of concerns about violent crime in that area. U.S. government employees are currently restricted from travelling on the highway between Nuevo Laredo and Monterrey, as well as on Mexican Highway 2 towards Reynosa or Ciudad Acuña due to security concerns.

Be aware of the risks posed by armed robbery and carjacking on state highways throughout Tamaulipas. In January 2011, a U.S. citizen was murdered in what appears to have been a failed carjacking attempt. While no highway routes through Tamaulipas are considered safe, many of the crimes reported to the U.S. Consulate General in Matamoros took place along the Matamoros-Tampico highway, particularly around San Fernando and the area north of Tampico.
Crime and Violence in Other Parts of Mexico

While security concerns are particularly acute in the northern border region, you should be aware of situations that could affect your safety in other parts of Mexico.

Sinaloa and Southern Sonora: One of Mexico's most powerful TCOs is based in the state of Sinaloa. Since 2006, more homicides have occurred in the state's capital city of Culiacan than in any other city in Mexico, with the exception of Ciudad Juarez. You should defer non-essential travel to Culiacan and exercise extreme caution when visiting the rest of the state. Travel off the toll roads in remote areas of Sinaloa is especially dangerous and should be avoided.

In the last year, the city of Mazatlan has experienced a level of violence, primarily confrontations between TCOs, not seen before. In 2010 there were over 300 narcotics-related murders within the city, compared to fewer than 100 in 2009. You are encouraged to visit Mazatlan during daylight hours and limit the time you spend outside tourist centers. Exercise caution during late night and early morning hours when most violent crimes occur.

Highway robbery and carjacking are ongoing security concerns for travelers on the Mexican toll road Highway 15 in Sonora and on Maxipista Benito Juarez in Sinaloa. These highways are known to be particularly dangerous at night when roadside robberies occur. When traveling in Sinaloa, U.S. government employees are required to use armored vehicles and may only travel in daylight hours.

San Luis Potosi: In February 2011, one U.S. government employee was killed and another wounded when they were attacked in their U.S. government vehicle on Highway 57 near Santa Maria del Rio. The incident remains under investigation. Cartel violence and highway lawlessness have increased throughout the state and are a continuing security concern. All official U.S. government employees and their families have been advised to defer travel on the entire stretch of highway 57D in San Luis Potosi as well as travel in the state east of highway 57D towards Tamaulipas. You should defer non-essential travel in these areas.

Nayarit and Jalisco: Official U.S. government employees are prohibited from traveling to Colotlan, Jalisco, and Yahualica, Jalisco, both near the Zacatecas border, because of an increasingly volatile security situation. Concerns include roadblocks placed by individuals posing as police or military personnel and recent gun battles between rival TCOs involving automatic weapons. You should defer non-essential travel to these cities. In addition, the border areas between Jalisco state and the states of Zacatecas and Michoacán, as well as southern Nayarit state including the city of Tepic, have been sites of violence and crime involving TCOs. You should exercise extreme caution when traveling in these areas. Due to recent TCO-mounted road blockades between the Guadalajara airport and the Guadalajara metropolitan areas, U.S. government employees are only authorized to travel between Guadalajara and the Guadalajara Airport during daylight hours.

Michoacán: You should defer non-essential travel to the State of Michoacán, which is home to another of Mexico's most dangerous TCOs, "La Familia". Attacks on government officials and law enforcement and military personnel, and other incidents of TCO-related violence, have occurred throughout Michoacan, including in and around the capital of Morelia and in the vicinity of the world famous butterfly sanctuaries in the eastern part of the State.

Guerrero and Morelos: You should exercise extreme caution when traveling in the northwestern part of the state of Guerrero, which has a strong TCO presence. Do not take the dangerous, isolated road through Ciudad Altamirano to the beach resorts of Ixtapa and Zihuatanejo and exercise caution traveling on the coastal road between Acapulco and Ixtapa due to the risk of roadblocks and carjackings. Numerous incidents of narcotics-related violence have occurred in the city of Cuernavaca, in the State of Morelos, a popular destination for American language students.

Downtown Acapulco and surrounding areas have seen a significant increase in narcotics-related violence in the last year. Incidents have included daylight gunfights and murders of law enforcement personnel and some have resulted in the deaths of innocent bystanders. Due to the unpredictable nature of this violence, you should exercise extreme caution when visiting downtown Acapulco. To reduce risks, tourists should not visit the downtown area at night and should remain in clearly identifiable tourist areas. In general, the popular tourist area of Diamante just south of the city has not been affected by the increasing violence.
Further Information

You are encouraged to review the U.S. Embassy's Mexico Security Update. The update contains information about recent security incidents in Mexico that could affect the safety of the traveling public.

For more detailed information on staying safe in Mexico, please see the State Department's Country Specific Information for Mexico. Information on security and travel to popular tourist destinations is also provided in the publication: Spring Break in Mexico - Know Before You Go!

baja
05-30-2011, 01:44 PM
Here are the topics of the board;

http://forums.bajanomad.com/today.php

sure doesn't look like there is much problem in Baja. I just drove the entire Baja a couple of weeks ago ( in a red Hummer H2 no less, which is the ride of choice for the higher up drug gang members).

I live here and have for 21 years and have many friends here. I tell you it's reasonably safe. But listen to Meck the guy afraid to venture into Mexico, he knows the conditions here real well.

Oh and for you Meck please stay out of the Baja - For God's sake please stay away it's a war zone here I tell ya. So many heads rolling around in the road it's a hazard driving.

Meck77
05-30-2011, 02:02 PM
And Odysseus...The fishing sucks in Baja. They've ruined it. Go to Costa Rica or somewhere in the states.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=38938

Some good insight to the reality of the tourism down there. It's bleak.

SoCalBronco
05-30-2011, 10:17 PM
<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/I7vjig6UlFg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Video: Kindergarten teacher leads children in song during shootout in Mexico
Comments (0) (389)(40)May 30, 2011 | 3:36 pm
In the video, the frightened but determined voice of a schoolteacher is heard as she attempts to maintain calm among a group of kindergartners lying on the floor before her, asking them to join her in a singalong as gunfire shatters the air outside.

The teacher refers to the children as "my love," "precious" and "little ones" during the stirring clip filmed last week in the city of Monterrey, in northern Mexico. It's gone viral, igniting once more a public debate over the government's campaign against drug gangs and earning accolades for maestra Martha Rivera Alanis, reports the Associated Press.

The Nuevo Leon state government honored Rivera for "outstanding civic courage" in a ceremony today.

The 33-year-old mother of two said she was frightened, but that her "only thought was to take their minds off that noise." The song she chose during the ordeal is a Spanish-language version of a tune popularized by the children's TV program "Barney and Friends," and makes reference to chocolate droplets falling from the sky.

Rivera filmed the video during a gunfight Friday in which five people were killed at a taxi stand in La Estanzuela, a district in south Monterrey. According to a local news site, Regioblogs, the teacher posted the video to her Facebook account and then was asked permission to have it reproduced on YouTube and linked to the site. So far the original clip has garnered more than 714,000 views

For more, see http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laplaza/2011/05/mexico-video-kindergarten-shootout-teacher-drug-war.html

Dr. Broncenstein
05-30-2011, 10:34 PM
<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/I7vjig6UlFg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Video: Kindergarten teacher leads children in song during shootout in Mexico
Comments (0) (389)(40)May 30, 2011 | 3:36 pm
In the video, the frightened but determined voice of a schoolteacher is heard as she attempts to maintain calm among a group of kindergartners lying on the floor before her, asking them to join her in a singalong as gunfire shatters the air outside.

The teacher refers to the children as "my love," "precious" and "little ones" during the stirring clip filmed last week in the city of Monterrey, in northern Mexico. It's gone viral, igniting once more a public debate over the government's campaign against drug gangs and earning accolades for maestra Martha Rivera Alanis, reports the Associated Press.

The Nuevo Leon state government honored Rivera for "outstanding civic courage" in a ceremony today.

The 33-year-old mother of two said she was frightened, but that her "only thought was to take their minds off that noise." The song she chose during the ordeal is a Spanish-language version of a tune popularized by the children's TV program "Barney and Friends," and makes reference to chocolate droplets falling from the sky.

Rivera filmed the video during a gunfight Friday in which five people were killed at a taxi stand in La Estanzuela, a district in south Monterrey. According to a local news site, Regioblogs, the teacher posted the video to her Facebook account and then was asked permission to have it reproduced on YouTube and linked to the site. So far the original clip has garnered more than 714,000 views

For more, see http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laplaza/2011/05/mexico-video-kindergarten-shootout-teacher-drug-war.html

Incredible.

mhgaffney
05-31-2011, 02:30 AM
If you guys want the real stories of what is happening in Mexico then cruise this website. It's the orangemane for Americans living in Baja.

Odysseus....I'm pointing this forum out to you specifically since you said you are considering living in Mexico. Years ago I considered buying a place in Mexico and I thank God I did not.

Baja can sugar coat what's happening in Mexico all he wants. The hundreds of people living down there who post on this forum tell a much different story.

Here is just one. http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=52944

Pretty common to get hustled by the police. http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=52510 It's funny that a poster would even justify it by saying "You should know better than to carry money in Baja". ;D

What is happening in Mexico is the direct consequence of covert US foreign policy -- implemented by the CIA.

The only way that the huge amounts of drugs can move into the US is with the CIA's approval.

The illegal drug trade is allowed to exist -- and is managed -- why?

For a number of reasons one of which is that the large US banks -- and I mean all of them -- have come to depend on drug profits for liquidity.

An estimated $500 billion to a $trillion in drug money is laundered through US banks every year. No one knows the actual number -- 99.9% of it escapes detection.

The way to end the violence along the border and recover our civil liberties is to make cocaine, heroin and pot legal.

Check out this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9VYoo_z300&feature=player_embedded

Odysseus
05-31-2011, 03:08 AM
And Odysseus...The fishing sucks in Baja. They've ruined it. Go to Costa Rica or somewhere in the states.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=38938

Some good insight to the reality of the tourism down there. It's bleak.

Fishing sucks? Oh well forget it then! :)

Go to www.moorings.com and tell me what you think about owning a boat. I know. I know. Boats are expensive but screw that. What if I don't have to take care of it .....completely?

The cops, just like politicians, are criminals anywhere you go in the world. I am used to corrupt cops. If you've spent any time in an urban area anywhere in America you can't ignore the simliarities. I am sure 10 minutes in that place I will be able to sort that out.

I moved from Denver to get away from an environment that was becoming too violent. I know the irony but, as they say, there it is. I like peace. I have seen enough blood, death, carnage, and violence to last a lifetime. Where I live needs to be damn near monastical.

Odysseus
05-31-2011, 04:32 AM
Incredible.

This has been happening in America's urban neighborhoods for years.

baja
05-31-2011, 06:31 AM
And Odysseus...The fishing sucks in Baja. They've ruined it. Go to Costa Rica or somewhere in the states.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=38938

Some good insight to the reality of the tourism down there. It's bleak.

The fishing sucks LOL what a tool or are you just trolling?

http://www.mexfish.com/

barryr
05-31-2011, 06:36 AM
Any numbers of how many Americans are sneaking into Mexico to live?

baja
05-31-2011, 06:36 AM
And Odysseus...The fishing sucks in Baja. They've ruined it. Go to Costa Rica or somewhere in the states.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=38938

Some good insight to the reality of the tourism down there. It's bleak.

The fishing sucks in Baja that is why the hold the worlds largest and most lucrative bill fish tournament here.

http://www.bisbees.com/Local/gallery/

You talk out your ass a lot kid but this one's a doosie even for you.

baja
05-31-2011, 06:41 AM
Any numbers of how many Americans are sneaking into Mexico to live?

Looks to be about 300,000 + that live here undocumented

http://www.peoplesguide.com/1pages/retire/work/bil-maste/%23americans.html

Pony Boy
05-31-2011, 07:15 AM
Any numbers of how many Americans are sneaking into Mexico to live?

You really don't have to sneak.....;D

GreatBronco16
05-31-2011, 07:18 AM
Looks to be about 300,000 + that live here undocumented

http://www.peoplesguide.com/1pages/retire/work/bil-maste/%23americans.html

LOL, that article doesn't say that about 300,000 live there undocumented. From the article........

"Okay, fine. But... what happened to the "other" 300,000 or so Americans cited by less official sources?

The Embassy staff who assisted me in this verification commented that, "The number strikes us as low . . . There are certainly MANY Americans who cross into Mexico via land border who never register with immigration. We at the consular services see a great number of Americans who have been here as long as a year without so much as a passport." They were quick to add, "In any case, the Mexican authorities are the official source for such data."

Also from your article....."However, I find it difficult to believe that more than an additional 15,000 to 20,000 persons make up these FMT holders and "slipped through" categories; certainly, 375,000 people have not slipped through."


Regardless, this was published back in 2000, and it is an article by one person who did this as a project, and he was given very limited information.

baja
05-31-2011, 07:19 AM
You really don't have to sneak.....;D

The immigration people in Mexico deport Americans all the time. Mostly undesirables that have screwed up in Mexico one way or another.

Pony Boy
05-31-2011, 07:28 AM
The immigration people in Mexico deport Americans all the time. Mostly undesirables that have screwed up in Mexico one way or another.

That's some sad stuff if you are so undesirable that Mexico deports you...... I guess the only career path left would be a Somali Pirate.

baja
05-31-2011, 07:33 AM
That's some sad stuff if you are so undesirable that Mexico deports you...... I guess the only career path left would be a Somali Pirate.

I'm really surprised at the distorted view of Mexico your closest neighbor many of you guys have.

There are great Mexican people just like there are great American people and to be sure both countries have their bad actors as well.

Meck77
05-31-2011, 08:36 AM
Resorts towns are safe...sure

Mexico is a freaking war zone........


7 killed in attacks in Mexican resort of Acapulco
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_18174599

Couple days ago. 29 killed...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103181125

Mexico City two days ago.....

11 dead
http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=395228&CategoryId=14091

Requiem
05-31-2011, 08:42 AM
It's all about the drugs. KILLA SEASON.

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/V8L73SQ6oeE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/V8L73SQ6oeE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="349" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

baja
05-31-2011, 09:35 AM
Resorts towns are safe...sure

Mexico is a freaking war zone........


7 killed in attacks in Mexican resort of Acapulco
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_18174599

Couple days ago. 29 killed...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103181125

Mexico City two days ago.....

11 dead
http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=395228&CategoryId=14091

Yes you should definitely stay out of Mexico

baja
05-31-2011, 09:38 AM
Violence is a big problem in Mexico there is no question about that. The point of this thread is the military is getting a handle on it. There is a long way to go but most experts here feel the corner has been turned. Things are improving.

BoulderBum
05-31-2011, 09:56 AM
Violence is a big problem in Mexico there is no question about that. The point of this thread is the military is getting a handle on it. There is a long way to go but most experts here feel the corner has been turned. Things are improving.

Mission Accomplished

broncocalijohn
05-31-2011, 10:00 AM
Baja,
I only came to this thread once and made a small comment and ran off so I didnt read any others but I have a question from your original post. Here is the "test"

1. Which country has a higher crime rate per 1,000 residents?
a. Mexico, b. Germany, c. Canada, d. U.S.
2. Which country has the highest murders with firearms?
a. Mexico, b. El Salvador, c. U.S.
3. Of the following countries, which has the least number of drug offenses?
a. Germany, b. United Kingdom, c. Canada, d. Switzerland, e. Mexico
4. Which country has the most prisoners?
a. United States, b. China, c. Russia, d. India, e. Mexico
(Answers: 1. d. U.S., 2. c. U.S., 3. e. Mexico, 4. a. U.S.- Source: http://www.nationmaster.com/)

It states residents instead of Citizens. Many of the crime being committed is from illegals and the mass majority of illegals hail from Mexico so isn't this "test" a bit sqewed? 25% to 33% of those in LA jails are illegals. Drug gangs in the US are connected to the drug cartels in Mexico. I would like to see a report of that test using citizens instead of residents. I know you might be starting this thread based on "safest place to visit" and that doesn't matter if someone is going to commit a crime is legal or not but it would show if the illegal alien problem could solve the bad element problem we have in the US (which I am certain it would). To stay on track with "safest places to visit" , maybe have a report of places spring breakers visit in the US and in other countries. Only bring this up because the "test" has this mentioned of spring break kids in the article.

RaiderH8r
05-31-2011, 01:52 PM
The immigration people in Mexico deport Americans all the time. Mostly undesirables that have screwed up in Mexico one way or another.

Yet you're still there....

baja
05-31-2011, 01:56 PM
Yet you're still there....

Why yes I only rob banks in the USA - more money there.

Hamrob
05-31-2011, 05:47 PM
This is the funniest damn thread I've ever read. I love this stuff. I had a bad day today...but, after reading a few of Baja's posts...I laughed my ass off.

Good stuff!

alkemical
06-13-2011, 10:42 AM
http://www.disinfo.com/2011/06/officials-in-panic-mode-over-failed-government-anti-gun-trafficking-program/

Officials in ‘Panic Mode’ Over Failed Government Anti-Gun Trafficking Program

Posted by BananaFamine on June 12, 2011

ATF“The hearing is billed as ‘Reckless Decisions, Tragic Outcomes’”. William La Jeunesse writes on Fox News:

Officials at the Department of Justice are in “panic mode,” according to multiple sources, as word spreads that congressional testimony next week will paint a bleak and humiliating picture of Operation Fast and Furious, the botched undercover operation that left a trail of blood from Mexico to Washington, D.C.

The operation was supposed to stem the flow of weapons from the U.S. to Mexico by allowing so-called straw buyers to purchase guns legally in the U.S. and later sell them in Mexico, usually to drug cartels.

Instead, ATF documents show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms knowingly and deliberately flooded Mexico with assault rifles. Their intent was to expose the entire smuggling organization, from top to bottom, but the operation spun out of control and supervisors refused pleas from field agents to stop it.

Only after Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry died did ATF Agent John Dodson blow the whistle and expose the scandal.

“What people don’t understand is how long we will be dealing with this,” Dodson told Fox News back in March. “Those guns are gone. You can’t just give the order and get them back. There is no telling how many crimes will be committed before we retrieve them.”

But now the casualties are coming in. Mexican officials estimate 150 of their people have been shot by Fast and Furious guns. Police have recovered roughly 700 guns at crime scenes, 250 in the U.S. and the rest in Mexico, including five AK-47s found at a cartel warehouse in Juarez last month.

alkemical
06-13-2011, 11:10 AM
http://www.blacklistednews.com/?news_id=14236

Source: Narcosphere

A Pentagon document has come to light that confirms the U.S. has put special operations troops on the ground in Mexico as the drug war there continues to escalate, notching some 40,000 murders since late 2006.

The document is a Department of Defense briefing presented in mid-May 2009 in Washington, D.C., to a group of business and political leaders from northwest Florida. The “Unclassified/For Official Use Only” briefing reveals the 18 Latin American nations where 7th Special Forces Group soldiers [Airborne Green Berets] were deployed as of fiscal year 2009, which ended Sept. 30, 2009.

Among those nations, according to the briefing document, was Mexico.

The document also indicates a 7th Special Forces unit was deployed in Mexico in 1996 as well, as part of a “counter-narcotics” mission.

The revelations in the briefing material are important because, to date, neither the Pentagon nor the State Department has confirmed that U.S. special forces have been deployed inside Mexico — a politically volatile subject in that Latin American nation given the rising drug-war death toll there and the “Yankee” history of U.S. Gunboat Diplomacy in the region.

bronco militia
06-13-2011, 11:11 AM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/06/06/article-0-0C6E084C00000578-481_468x424.jpg

Mexican war on drugs reaches new low as drug gangs hang rival members from city-centre bridges

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1394823/Mexican-war-drugs-reaches-new-low-drug-gangs-hang-rival-members-city-centre-bridges.html#ixzz1OcW1BqW3

TheReverend
06-13-2011, 11:22 AM
Mexico is safer than the US. Just like the middle east is a the best place for women to get an education.

bronco militia
06-13-2011, 08:19 PM
Mutilated bodies found this morning in General Teran, Nuevo Leon



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SFhJCFrRXMY/TfU09ELxwGI/AAAAAAAACT4/_ZD6WAm3dig/s1600/nuevo%2Bleon%2B125.jpg

holy crap ,....graphic photos.
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2011/06/mutilated-bodies-found-this-morning-in.html

Requiem
06-14-2011, 09:02 AM
Thread fail. Lol. He even argued against himself.

worm
06-14-2011, 11:01 AM
Probably a good idea to wait for the head decapitations and the naked bridge hangings to stop prior to starting a thread like this.

baja
06-14-2011, 11:04 AM
Probably a good idea to wait for the head decapitations and the naked bridge hangings to stop prior to starting a thread like this.

I am very well aware of the problems with the drug wars in parts of Mexico.

Did anyone notice the OP is in the form of a question?

Requiem
06-14-2011, 11:07 AM
eight children die from gunshots in the us per day.

Meck77
08-25-2011, 10:12 PM
53 killed in a casino in Mexico..........

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_18758377

MONTERREY, Mexico—Two dozen gunmen burst into a casino in northern Mexico on Thursday, doused it with gasoline and started a fire that trapped gamblers inside, killing 53 people and injuring a dozen more, authorities said.

baja
08-25-2011, 10:18 PM
53 killed in a casino in Mexico..........

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_18758377

MONTERREY, Mexico—Two dozen gunmen burst into a casino in northern Mexico on Thursday, doused it with gasoline and started a fire that trapped gamblers inside, killing 53 people and injuring a dozen more, authorities said.


So does that tragedy somehow make you feel right you cold blooded kock sucker. All I can say is too bad you weren't there to see it first hand.

Oh look 53 people killed in Mexico, I'm right and baja is wrong.

Self absorbed pricks like you is what is wrong with this world. Maybe culling the herd is not a bad idea.

DBruleU
08-25-2011, 10:25 PM
So does that tragedy somehow make you feel right you cold blooded kock sucker. All I can say is too bad you weren't there to see it first hand.

Oh look 53 people killed in Mexico, I'm right and baja is wrong.

Self absorbed pricks like you is what is wrong with this world. Maybe culling the herd is not a bad idea.

Relax old man.

baja
08-25-2011, 10:30 PM
Relax old man.

Guy hunts down an old threat to to post the violent death of 53 people to brag that he is right about which country is safer and you tell me to calm down. What the ℉UCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?

DBruleU
08-25-2011, 10:32 PM
Guy hunts down an old threat to to post the violent death of 53 people to brag that he is right about which country is safer and you tell me to calm down. What the ℉UCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?

Uh, people always add to older threads, and you don't like it cause you got so royally pwned in this thread.

So yeah, relax old man. Enjoy a margarita as you try to survive that hell hole of a country.

baja
08-25-2011, 10:35 PM
Uh, people always add to older threads, and you don't like it cause you got so royally pwned in this thread.

So yeah, relax old man. Enjoy a margarita as you try to survive that hell hole of a country.

53 PEOPLE DIED A HORRIBLE DEATH AND ALL YOU SEE IS I GOT OWNED IN A THREAD ON A BULL SHIIT MESSAGE BOARD. THE WORLD DOES NEED A CLEANSING.

Oh I know they were only Mexicans right.

baja
08-25-2011, 10:38 PM
BTW the OP was in the form of a question but not one of you idiots noticed that. You are like watching a car wreck.

DBruleU
08-25-2011, 10:41 PM
BTW the OP was in the form of a question but not one of you idiots noticed that. You are like watching a car wreck.

Yeah, whatever you say. You know what you were insinuating.

baja
08-25-2011, 10:42 PM
Yeah, whatever you say. You know what you were insinuating.

No you were set up and you all did exactly what I thought would, you flag waving fools. Rome is burning and you doen't even know it. Some of you are getting exactly what you deserve.

You should go gargle with some Draino.

broncocalijohn
08-25-2011, 11:16 PM
I didn't say it was perfect ;D

Still less violant per capata than the USA

"In fact, much of the crime data per capita 1000 population suggests that in many respects Mexico is safer than the U.S.: in assaults the U.S. ranks No. 6, Mexico No. 20; burglaries the U.S. No. 17, Mexico No. 34; car thefts U.S. No. 9, Mexico No. 22; fraud U.S. No. 18, Mexico No. 29; Rape (Canada No.5), U.S. No. 9, Mexico No. 17."

Baja, if you were putting the OP as a question, you sure did respond to every one of us that see Mexico as more dangerous. So, even though you put it as a question, you were defending Mexico and not the USA. Meck did nothing wrong to put it in this thread. If you dont like it, don't make these types of threads or do not defend Mexico. Also, illegal aliens do not make crime here "a few percentage points higher" as you stated on the first page. A huge % of jailbirds are illegals in the LA County jail.

baja
08-25-2011, 11:35 PM
Baja, if you were putting the OP as a question, you sure did respond to every one of us that see Mexico as more dangerous. So, even though you put it as a question, you were defending Mexico and not the USA. Meck did nothing wrong to put it in this thread. If you dont like it, don't make these types of threads or do not defend Mexico. Also, illegal aliens do not make crime here "a few percentage points higher" as you stated on the first page. A huge % of jailbirds are illegals in the LA County jail.

How would you like it if I used 9/11 as an example of violence and danger in America? Some things are off limits. 9/11 and 53 freshly killed innocents are among them. We all know what Meck was doing here. It was about him not about the danger of Mexico. No mention of too bad about the loss of life, just na na na baja I am right and you are wrong. Again what is wrong with you people? I never said I agreed with the article not once. I know what is going on here and it is damn scary but the whole world is scary these days more than ever brfore and it is going to get a lot worse. Time to come together as a people and set the nationalism aside. Can you imagine if I used a fresh case of multiple deaths (say a dirty bomb) in the States as an example to make a case Mexico is safer. You guys seem to have the attitude if it happens some where else it's no big deal. Your wrong.

Meck77
08-26-2011, 05:26 AM
So does that tragedy somehow make you feel right you cold blooded kock sucker. All I can say is too bad you weren't there to see it first hand.

Oh look 53 people killed in Mexico, I'm right and baja is wrong.

Self absorbed pricks like you is what is wrong with this world. Maybe culling the herd is not a bad idea.



You should go gargle with some Draino.

This thread is about the travel safety of Mexico. Mexico just isn't a safe place to visit anymore. This thread isn't about me or anyone in this community but you've made it personal. Thanks for wishing death on us.

That's great Karma.

Just curious. Is wishing death to others something you teach in your breathing classes? "Take a deep breath in............Now wish death upon those that don't agree with you today....Let it out....ahhhhhh"

alkemical
08-26-2011, 05:52 AM
I made tamale pie last weekend, it was pretty damned good. My cornmeal wasn't exactly as I remember it should be though.

jhns
08-26-2011, 06:19 AM
How would you like it if I used 9/11 as an example of violence and danger in America? Some things are off limits. 9/11 and 53 freshly killed innocents are among them. We all know what Meck was doing here. It was about him not about the danger of Mexico. No mention of too bad about the loss of life, just na na na baja I am right and you are wrong. Again what is wrong with you people? I never said I agreed with the article not once. I know what is going on here and it is damn scary but the whole world is scary these days more than ever brfore and it is going to get a lot worse. Time to come together as a people and set the nationalism aside. Can you imagine if I used a fresh case of multiple deaths (say a dirty bomb) in the States as an example to make a case Mexico is safer. You guys seem to have the attitude if it happens some where else it's no big deal. Your wrong.

Go ahead and use it. Your violence is from locals. 9-11 was not. We also took care of that, because we care about our citizens... It isn't constantly happening...

Keep trying to save everyone though. You are doing a fantastic job from your bunker in another country...

TheReverend
08-26-2011, 06:28 AM
Baja's just one of those really stupid and gullible people that deep down realizes his failure and misery and uses these crazy spins on reality to grasp at some self-image perspective of superiority.

DBruleU
08-26-2011, 08:08 AM
Baja's just one of those really stupid and gullible people that deep down realizes his failure and misery and uses these crazy spins on reality to grasp at some self-image perspective of superiority.

Yeah, but as least he is having great sex at such an old age. Or at least he claimed he was in some stupid thread he made in the past.

Sort of glad he isn't living in the States anymore, we already have Gaffney to deal with.

DBruleU
08-26-2011, 08:11 AM
No you were set up and you all did exactly what I thought would, you flag waving fools. Rome is burning and you doen't even know it. Some of you are getting exactly what you deserve.

You should go gargle with some Draino.

I think you're now just confirming what we have been arguing with that last comment. Why do people in Mexico seem to want to kill people?

alkemical
08-26-2011, 08:17 AM
I think you're now just confirming what we have been arguing with that last comment. Why do people in Mexico seem to want to kill people?

I dunno, a city near me has had about 5 murders in the last week or so. Not 53, but I don't think they were mexican.

Meck77
02-08-2012, 10:31 PM
NEW TRAVEL WARNING MEXICO

Mexico

February 08, 2012

The Department of State has issued this Travel Warning to inform U.S. citizens about the security situation in Mexico. General information on the overall security situation is provided immediately below. For information on security conditions in specific regions of Mexico, which can vary, travelers should reference the state-by-state assessments further below.

This Travel Warning supersedes the Travel Warning for Mexico dated April 22, 2011 to consolidate and update information about the security situation and to advise the public of additional restrictions on the travel of U.S. government (USG) personnel.

Continued.........

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_5665.html

cutthemdown
02-08-2012, 10:46 PM
Some places in USA are super unsafe. The problem in Mexico is you can't trust the police or govt all the time. Also in Mexico they have way more instances of police actually being killers. You don't see that much in the USA.

But trying to sort through stats to say what country safer for the avg citizen is pretty tough to do. I've never been a victim of violent crime in the USA, or my trips long ago to Mexico. I will never be going back to Mexico, but its not because its not safe, just don't want to really. When I go south now I go to my cousins pad in Costa Rica. Only met him once, only been once, but if i go again that is where i will go. He's a hand doctor that had problems in FLA with being blacklisted for tesifying in a trial anout hand surgeries that weren't needed. Guess he should if STFU lol. But he has done well for himself, costa rican wife, sailboat, really nice place in San Jose outskirts where mostly expats live.

cutthemdown
02-08-2012, 10:47 PM
But unless its Somali, Iran, Mynymar etc etc i think you can safely take a cruise there. Don't be scared to go to Cabo or Cancun, im sure the govt making sure the tourists are safe there.

I would however advise against opening up a PI business in Tijuana. :)

baja
02-10-2012, 06:00 PM
NEW TRAVEL WARNING MEXICO

Mexico

February 08, 2012

The Department of State has issued this Travel Warning to inform U.S. citizens about the security situation in Mexico. General information on the overall security situation is provided immediately below. For information on security conditions in specific regions of Mexico, which can vary, travelers should reference the state-by-state assessments further below.

This Travel Warning supersedes the Travel Warning for Mexico dated April 22, 2011 to consolidate and update information about the security situation and to advise the public of additional restrictions on the travel of U.S. government (USG) personnel.

Continued.........

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_5665.html

Yes, yes very dangerous. For God's sake stay away. Not for the chicken hearted....

Damn there are two shadowy figures at the gate now..... That looks like a marchetti......

Dr. Broncenstein
02-10-2012, 08:33 PM
Tulsa is probably as dangerous as Mexico right now.

alkemical
04-23-2012, 10:02 AM
http://www.disinfo.com/2012/04/mexican-drug-cartel-kingpin-revealed-as-fbi-informant/

Richard A. Serrano writes in the LA Times:

Police and federal agents pulled the car over in a suburb north of Denver. An FBI agent showed his badge. The driver appeared not startled at all. “My friend,” he said, “I have been waiting for you.”

And with that, Jesus Audel Miramontes-Varela stepped out of his white 2002 BMW X5 and into the arms of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Over the next several days at his ranch in Colorado and an FBI safe house in Albuquerque, the Mexican cartel chieftain — who had reputedly fed one of his victims to lions in Mexico — was transformed into one of the FBI’s top informants on the Southwest border.

Around a dining room table in August 2010, an FBI camera whirring above, the 34-year-old Miramontes-Varela confessed his leadership in the Juarez cartel, according to 75 pages of confidential FBI interview reports obtained by The Times/Tribune Washington Bureau.

Read More: LA Times

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-fbi-informant-20120422,0,4316298.story

alkemical
04-24-2012, 07:08 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/for-first-time-since-depression-more-mexicans-leave-us-than-enter/2012/04/23/gIQApyiDdT_story.html

For first time since Depression, more Mexicans leave U.S. than enter

baja
04-24-2012, 09:07 AM
Pew: immigration from Mexico drops to net zero



Immigration from Mexico has reached a net zero, with as many Mexicans moving back to Mexico as are entering the United States, according to the Pew Research Center’s Jeffrey Passel, a highly regarded demographer who used data from both countries.

The report released Wednesday cited several possible reasons, including, “the weakened U.S. job and housing construction markets, heightened border enforcement, a rise in deportations, the growing dangers associated with illegal border crossings, the long-term decline in Mexico’s birth rates and changing economic conditions in Mexico.”

The Mexican migration has been one of the largest in the nation’s history. About 12 million Mexicans have crossed the border, more than half illegally. That flow not only stopped but may have actually have begun to reverse, an equally historic shift. The report found that from 2005 to 2010, “about 1.4 million Mexicans immigrated to the United States and about 1.4 million Mexican immigrants and their U.S.-born children moved from the United States to Mexico.”

The drop is the first of any significance in more than two decades. There are 40 million immigrants in the U.S. today. Mexicans account for 58 percent of the illegal population and 30 percent of all U.S. immigrants. China is the next largest country of origin, but accounts for only 5 percent of the total number of immigrants.

http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05election/2012/04/23/pew-immigration-from-mexico-drops-to-net-zero/?source=Patrick.net&tsp=1

baja
04-24-2012, 09:11 AM
Now that the USA FTA's "Fast and Furious" program of exported death has been exposed and stopped Mexico has become less violent.

Rohirrim
04-24-2012, 09:26 AM
Pew: immigration from Mexico drops to net zero



Immigration from Mexico has reached a net zero, with as many Mexicans moving back to Mexico as are entering the United States, according to the Pew Research Center’s Jeffrey Passel, a highly regarded demographer who used data from both countries.

The report released Wednesday cited several possible reasons, including, “the weakened U.S. job and housing construction markets, heightened border enforcement, a rise in deportations, the growing dangers associated with illegal border crossings, the long-term decline in Mexico’s birth rates and changing economic conditions in Mexico.”

The Mexican migration has been one of the largest in the nation’s history. About 12 million Mexicans have crossed the border, more than half illegally. That flow not only stopped but may have actually have begun to reverse, an equally historic shift. The report found that from 2005 to 2010, “about 1.4 million Mexicans immigrated to the United States and about 1.4 million Mexican immigrants and their U.S.-born children moved from the United States to Mexico.”

The drop is the first of any significance in more than two decades. There are 40 million immigrants in the U.S. today. Mexicans account for 58 percent of the illegal population and 30 percent of all U.S. immigrants. China is the next largest country of origin, but accounts for only 5 percent of the total number of immigrants.

http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05election/2012/04/23/pew-immigration-from-mexico-drops-to-net-zero/?source=Patrick.net&tsp=1

They come up here for a few years, see some Fox News, watch our political primaries, and go, "You people are ****ing crazy. I'm going home." ;D

jhns
04-24-2012, 09:50 AM
Baja is still trying to convince himself? LOL

Poor Mexico homer. Your country will never be as good as mine at anything. Sorry.

alkemical
04-24-2012, 10:53 AM
Now that the USA FTA's "Fast and Furious" program of exported death has been exposed and stopped Mexico has become less violent.

Well, that's some of the interesting things i've thought about when reading this article.

how much of the 'war on drugs', has had a negative impact on Mexico? How much has NAFTA been designed to further the impoverished?

baja
04-24-2012, 11:53 AM
Baja is still trying to convince himself? LOL

Poor Mexico homer. Your country will never be as good as mine at anything. Sorry.

My country / your country.... such gibberish

Just be a human being it's all that is required of you.

baja
04-24-2012, 11:55 AM
Well, that's some of the interesting things i've thought about when reading this article.

how much of the 'war on drugs', has had a negative impact on Mexico? How much has NAFTA been designed to further the impoverished?


The only reason there is a "war on drugs" is to keep the price up and feed the prison system.

alkemical
04-24-2012, 12:01 PM
The only reason there is a "war on drugs" is to keep the price up and feed the prison system.

Trust me...i know.

jhns
04-24-2012, 02:52 PM
My country / your country.... such gibberish

Just be a human being it's all that is required of you.

You only think this because you live in an inferior country. Psychology 101.

You are the one always trying to compare the two. Don't back down just because I come with facts.

jhns
04-24-2012, 02:53 PM
The only reason there is a "war on drugs" is to keep the price up and feed the prison system.

Legal drugs cost more. The government doesn't make money off drugs or overcrowded prisons. Your post doesn't make sense.

Requiem
04-24-2012, 02:53 PM
jhns bringing the heat today.

baja
04-24-2012, 03:25 PM
jhns bringing the heat today.

LOL this is what is known as idiot worship by and even bigger idiot.

1. I have stopped identifying with any one country years ago.

2. Your government members with the help of CIA and large banks are the ones making the lion's share of the illegal drug profits. Wake up sonny illegal drugs is big business in the USA. Why do you think American troops are cultivating poppies in Afghanistan. Why do you think ATF is supporting one side in the cartel wars in Mexico (Fast and Furious)? I'll tell ya, because one group launders it's drug money with large American banks and the other does not. Which side do you think got the guns?

baja
04-24-2012, 03:27 PM
Legal drugs cost more. The government doesn't make money off drugs or overcrowded prisons. Your post doesn't make sense.

Do do not know what you are talking about but that has never stopped you before.

jhns
04-24-2012, 03:34 PM
Do do not know what you are talking about but that has never stopped you before.

I know exactly what I'm talking about.

You are an idiot.

See?

baja
04-24-2012, 03:45 PM
I know exactly what I'm talking about.

You are an idiot.

See?

No! No you do not. But no force on earth can get you to realize that. That is what makes you an idiot, see?

jhns
04-24-2012, 03:48 PM
No! No you do not. But no force on earth can get you to realize that. That is what makes you an idiot, see?

You can claim whatever you want. It won't make it true. You will learn this someday.

baja
04-26-2012, 08:41 AM
Mexicans Fleeing Third World Country, Heading Back to Mexico



By McCullough
Wednesday April 25, 2012


A four-decade tidal wave of Mexican immigration to the United States has receded, causing a historic shift in migration patterns as more Mexicans appear to be leaving the United States for Mexico than the other way around, according to a report from the Pew Hispanic Center.

It looks to be the first reversal in the trend since the Depression, and experts say that a declining Mexican birthrate and other factors may make it permanent. “I think the massive boom in Mexican immigration is over and I don’t think it will ever return to the numbers we saw in the 1990s and 2000s,” said Douglas Massey, a professor of sociology and public affairs at Princeton University and co-director of the Mexican Migration Project, which has been gathering data on the subject for 30 years.

Nearly 1.4 million Mexicans moved from the United States to Mexico between 2005 and 2010, double the number who did so a decade earlier. The number of Mexicans who moved to the United States during that period fell to less than half of the 3 million who came between 1995 and 2000.

The trend could have major political consequences, underscoring the delicate dance by the Republican and Democratic parties as they struggle with immigration policies and court the increasingly important Latino vote.

broncocalijohn
04-26-2012, 09:14 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/for-first-time-since-depression-more-mexicans-leave-us-than-enter/2012/04/23/gIQApyiDdT_story.html

For first time since Depression, more Mexicans leave U.S. than enter

While something positive about that (and I am talking about illegal aliens going back home), it shows our economy has not recovered enough. Amazing what jobs Americans used to be able to get 10-15 years ago is now in the hands of illegal aliens. This is our Catch 22.

alkemical
04-26-2012, 10:37 AM
While something positive about that (and I am talking about illegal aliens going back home), it shows our economy has not recovered enough. Amazing what jobs Americans used to be able to get 10-15 years ago is now in the hands of illegal aliens. This is our Catch 22.

Americans could still do those jobs...they just don't want to.

"Dem mexicans are stealin' our jobs! But I don't want to compete with them for it!"

broncocalijohn
04-26-2012, 10:44 AM
Americans could still do those jobs...they just don't want to.

"Dem mexicans are stealin' our jobs! But I don't want to compete with them for it!"

How can you compete when an air conditioning tech (or construction) was getting $15-$20 an hour is now being done by illegals for less? It isn't that they don't want to do it but that the employers have found a group of workers that will do it at $10 or less and they can't complain because they are paid under the table.
If you want to talk about the locals after Katrina not working when there was a ton of cleanup work, then you have a point. That is New Orleans not the West.

alkemical
04-26-2012, 10:48 AM
How can you compete when an air conditioning tech (or construction) was getting $15-$20 an hour is now being done by illegals for less? It isn't that they don't want to do it but that the employers have found a group of workers that will do it at $10 or less and they can't complain because they are paid under the table.
If you want to talk about the locals after Katrina not working when there was a ton of cleanup work, then you have a point. That is New Orleans not the West.

Sorry man, it's the 'mentality' of the free market. If you don't want to compete, then stop bitching about it. Is the goal of a company to pay workers less than they want, so you maintain high margins?

If you don't like it...start your own company and hire mexicans and compete that way.

"I'm not working for $10/hr less" - well, that's entitlement mentality right there.