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BowlenBall
04-29-2011, 09:30 PM
Looks like Merton Hanks on steroids to me....

Rohirrim
04-29-2011, 09:31 PM
Despite all the verbiage, arguments, biases and positions, this was the strongest, deepest draft at one of the most highly needed positions (Dline) on the Broncos in years, and the Broncos walk out of the first three rounds without a single Dline player. Will next year's draft be this deep in Dlinemen? How about the year after that? The year after that? The Broncos could have walked out of this draft with, at minimum, two of the better Dline players available. Are players at this position easy to find elsewhere? FA?

Speaking of the position itself, where is DT on the scale of impact positions in football? At the bottom? Nearer the top? The traditional argument has always been that success on the football field begins with the lines. The Broncos just had a golden opportunity to do just that - build the Dline. They went in a different direction. I'll be curious to see if three or so years from now, we're not still on this board talking about how much we need a Dline while the careers of many of the players we saw taken these last two days flourish, taking their teams to victory.

mhgaffney
04-29-2011, 09:36 PM
Never fear.

Bowlen is obviously committed to shelling out megabucks for coupla Free Agent DT maulers.

DarkHorse
04-29-2011, 09:40 PM
Despite all the verbiage, arguments, biases and positions, this was the strongest, deepest draft at one of the most highly needed positions (Dline) on the Broncos in years, and the Broncos walk out of the first three rounds without a single Dline player. Will next year's draft be this deep in Dlinemen? How about the year after that? The year after that? The Broncos could have walked out of this draft with, at minimum, two of the better Dline players available. Are players at this position easy to find elsewhere? FA?

Speaking of the position itself, where is DT on the scale of impact positions in football? At the bottom? Nearer the top? The traditional argument has always been that success on the football field begins with the lines. The Broncos just had a golden opportunity to do just that - build the Dline. They went in a different direction. I'll be curious to see if three or so years from now, we're not still on this board talking about how much we need a Dline while the careers of many of the players we saw taken these last two days flourish, taking their teams to victory.

Consensus is that DT's take a few years to contribute.

Rohirrim
04-29-2011, 09:42 PM
Consensus is that DT's take a few years to contribute.

How long do the ones you don't draft take to contribute?

Jekyll15Hyde
04-29-2011, 09:43 PM
Of the FA list, has anyone heard the chances of Ngata not resigning with Balt? He is worth whatever he wants IMO and would love to see him here.

DarkHorse
04-29-2011, 09:50 PM
How long do the ones you don't draft take to contribute?

Just a little longer.

Should I post the DT's that have been taken over the years in say the top 3 rounds and then you guys can come back and argue how much better this years DT's are going to be than the busts that I post?

With a rag tag defense full of holes you guys are still going to complain about not taking a DT in the first 3 rounds that would not help the team for 2 or 3 years? We shouldn't have addressed possible first year starting positions that are upgrades over what we have just so we could say we drafted a DT?

The o-line needed help - contrary to popular belief the idea that Tim Tebow is like Chuck Norris and therefore doesn't need a line at all is completely untrue. We added possible first year starters.

Still have 5 picks left I think, so if it generally takes a few years to develop a DT why not just wait until later rounds and grab someone to develop? Yeah they're not "all world elite" talent but i'd be more than happy to show you busts that were "all world elite" talent at that position from damn near any round taken.

Rohirrim
04-29-2011, 09:59 PM
Just a little longer.

Should I post the DT's that have been taken over the years in say the top 3 rounds and then you guys can come back and argue how much better this years DT's are going to be than the busts that I post?

With a rag tag defense full of holes you guys are still going to complain about not taking a DT in the first 3 rounds that would not help the team for 2 or 3 years? We shouldn't have addressed possible first year starting positions that are upgrades over what we have just so we could say we drafted a DT?

The o-line needed help - contrary to popular belief the idea that Tim Tebow is like Chuck Norris and therefore doesn't need a line at all is completely untrue. We added possible first year starters.

Still have 5 picks left I think, so if it generally takes a few years to develop a DT why not just wait until later rounds and grab someone to develop? Yeah they're not "all world elite" talent but i'd be more than happy to show you busts that were "all world elite" talent at that position from damn near any round taken.

And I can show you the same list for every position in football. Point?

You can make the same argument about Franklin. Why take a guard in the second? You can find excellent guards in the fifth or sixth to coach up.

My argument is a simple one. This draft was rich in DTs. The lack of strength at this position has been a gaping wound on the Broncos for years. The opportunity was there. It almost looks as though the Broncos were picking around the available bounty to take everything BUT a DT. Maybe they just got a little too complicated. A little bit of overthinking.

If the argument is, DTs take longer to develop, then the counter-argument is that the quicker you get some on the team the better off you are. Usually, at least it seems to me, you have better long term success taking players in the draft and training them up to play your game, than you do chasing after vets year after year and trying to plug them in to what you're doing. Build from the draft. Build the lines first. Simple stuff.

Chris
04-29-2011, 10:07 PM
Knowshon Moreno might actually be able to run off tackle now.

Archer81
04-29-2011, 10:11 PM
And I can show you the same list for every position in football. Point?

You can make the same argument about Franklin. Why take a guard in the second? You can find excellent guards in the fifth or sixth to coach up.




Franklin seems to be a better fit at tackle.


:Broncos:

DarkHorse
04-29-2011, 10:11 PM
And I can show you the same list for every position in football. Point?

You can make the same argument about Franklin. Why take a guard in the second? You can find excellent guards in the fifth or sixth to coach up.

My argument is a simple one. This draft was rich in DTs. The lack of strength at this position has been a gaping wound on the Broncos for years. The opportunity was there. It almost looks as though the Broncos were picking around the available bounty to take everything BUT a DT. Maybe they just got a little too complicated. A little bit of overthinking.

If the argument is, DTs take longer to develop, then the counter-argument is that the quicker you get some on the team the better off you are. Usually, at least it seems to me, you have better long term success taking players in the draft and training them up to play your game, than you do chasing after vets year after year and trying to plug them in to what you're doing. Build from the draft. Build the lines first. Simple stuff.


What's really simple is this: The draft isn't over.

Unless you guys know something the rest of us don't.....

Rohirrim
04-29-2011, 10:17 PM
What's really simple is this: The draft isn't over.

Unless you guys know something the rest of us don't.....

The reality is that from the fourth round on down, you're looking for backups and ST players.

Rohirrim
04-29-2011, 10:19 PM
Franklin seems to be a better fit at tackle.


:Broncos:

From what I've read about him it sounds like maybe he'd be better at LG and Beadles will move to RT. I have no problems with the pick. He looks like a mean ass mauler.

schaaf
04-29-2011, 10:20 PM
that may be your opinion but coaches have told him he will be a right tackle...

DarkHorse
04-29-2011, 10:25 PM
I would love to see a list of 2nd round and lower DT's that have been taken that simply washed out of the league. All I can find are 1st round busts - a lot of them - that were sure fire can't miss prospects.

As much as I want a DT i'm not going to complain about the direction this FO is taking - all defense. Glad we took potential day 1 starters over grabbing a guy that either barely contributes or sits on the sideline being developed for 2 or 3 years only to find out he's a bust.

Hell Dorsey was taken in the first round and we lay into the Chiefs fans every chance we get about him being a bust. That could easily happen to us.

We need DT's - no kidding - but we need a lot of things. Have faith that our defensive head coach knows we have a position called defensive tackle and that he has a plan to address it.

So if we don't hit FA for a DT is there some other reason that we can't take a DT #1 or #2 next year and use fill-ins until then? Can't honestly tell me that even with some 2nd and 3rd tier FA DT that you think this defense is still going to be dead last in the league right?

Have some faith ;)

RaiderH8r
04-29-2011, 10:47 PM
Knowshon Moreno might actually be able to run off tackle now.

I'm pretty stoked for the first handful of carries he logs right before he comes up gimpy. Those will be some exciting totes though. Worthwhile totes. Anybody know what kiosk Tatum Bell is working these days? Might want to keep his number handy.

DarkHorse
04-29-2011, 10:50 PM
I'm pretty stoked for the first handful of carries he logs right before he comes up gimpy. Those will be some exciting totes though. Worthwhile totes. Anybody know what kiosk Tatum Bell is working these days? Might want to keep his number handy.

We're getting a RB tomorrow. I can feel it - Taiwan Jones c'mon down. Time to give opposing defenses a guy that is an actual homerun threat to worry about.

NFLBRONCO
04-29-2011, 10:52 PM
We're getting a RB tomorrow. I can feel it - Taiwan Jones c'mon down. Time to give opposing defenses a guy that is an actual homerun threat to worry about.

I hope so

baja
04-30-2011, 06:06 AM
What a great trade with SF we made yesterday. Icing on the cake of a very good draft and depending on today's outcome maybe great draft.

BowlenBall
04-30-2011, 06:11 AM
Denver up.

Bowers, Paea, Austin all there. Almost a best-case scenario.

Ah... I long for that time when I was wide-eyed and innocent.... when all things seem possible... when a kick-ass NFL-caliber front four was in our grasp....

Requiem
04-30-2011, 06:42 AM
Ah... I long for that time when I was wide-eyed and innocent.... when all things seem possible... when a kick-ass NFL-caliber front four was in our grasp....

Yeah?

Bowers, Paea and Austin -- two injured, one with serious character concerns (and didn't even play last year) weren't drafted by us.

Those guys aren't going to be kick-ass in the NFL. At best, average.

All you turds pining for Austin had it coming. You really think that the Broncos (especially John Fox) was interested in drafting that crapface?

Lol. Get real.

Our draft was an indication we aren't interested in medical liabilities (I wouldn't even group Irving in this category) and malcontents who aren't in football shape.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-30-2011, 06:43 AM
The reality is that from the fourth round on down, you're looking for backups and ST players.

http://wolbbaltimore.com/files/2011/01/Terrell_Davis_forner_Denver_Broncos_Running_Back_R ing_of_Famer.jpg Terrell Davis: "WHAT?"

http://static.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/tom-brady-celebrates.jpg
Tom Brady: "SIXTH ROUND POWER!"

http://13psi.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/shannon_sharpe-300x252.jpg
Shannon Sharpe: "[unintelligible]"

OrangeSe7en
04-30-2011, 06:47 AM
http://wolbbaltimore.com/files/2011/01/Terrell_Davis_forner_Denver_Broncos_Running_Back_R ing_of_Famer.jpg Terrell Davis: "WHAT?"

http://static.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/tom-brady-celebrates.jpg
Tom Brady: "SIXTH ROUND POWER!"

http://13psi.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/shannon_sharpe-300x252.jpg
Shannon Sharpe: "[unintelligible]"

Notice how he used the word, "reality". Some times you need to focus on the whole sentence including all of it's words. They're not always unnecessary stuff thats just there to make you overread. Realistically, people aren't expecting Terrell Davis, Tom Brady, or Shannon Sharpe. Just throwing around examples of how you can get lucky that late, doesn't really discount anything he said.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-30-2011, 06:52 AM
Notice how he used the word, "reality". Some times you need to focus on the whole sentence including all of it's words. They're not always unnecessary stuff thats just there to make you overread. Realistically, people aren't expecting Terrell Davis, Tom Brady, or Shannon Sharpe. Just throwing around examples of how you can get lucky that late, doesn't really discount anything he said.

Notice how he also said "looking for." As in, that's ALL they're looking for, backups and special teams players. Sometimes you need to focus on the whole sentence including all of its words.

Realistically, people are expecting to find players in the late round who CONTRIBUTE, period. They're not being drafted so we can cut them or put them on the practice squad. Every guy drafted will be expected to see the field and make plays.

Also, UDFA Rod Smith says hello, and that he thinks you're a douchenozzle.

OrangeSe7en
04-30-2011, 06:56 AM
Notice how he also said "looking for." As in, that's ALL they're looking for, backups and special teams players. Sometimes you need to focus on the whole sentence including all of its words.

Realistically, people are expecting to find players in the late round who CONTRIBUTE, period. They're not being drafted so we can cut them or put them on the practice squad. Every guy drafted will be expected to see the field and make plays.

Also, UDFA Rod Smith says hello, and that he thinks you're a douchenozzle.

...and?

Rohirrim
04-30-2011, 08:22 AM
http://wolbbaltimore.com/files/2011/01/Terrell_Davis_forner_Denver_Broncos_Running_Back_R ing_of_Famer.jpg Terrell Davis: "WHAT?"

http://static.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/tom-brady-celebrates.jpg
Tom Brady: "SIXTH ROUND POWER!"

http://13psi.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/shannon_sharpe-300x252.jpg
Shannon Sharpe: "[unintelligible]"

Oh look! Somebody won the lottery! Maybe I will too! :oyvey:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-30-2011, 08:41 AM
Oh look! Somebody won the lottery! Maybe I will too! :oyvey:

Can't win if you don't play.

By the way, that 'somebody' was us. Twice. Three times if you count Mecklenburg.

Saying that all we're looking for is backups and special teams players insinuates that's all that is available. I showed you some exceptions.

And I thought it was kind of funny, too. Sorry about the death of your sense of humor. It had a good life.

TheReverend
04-30-2011, 08:44 AM
Oh look! Somebody won the lottery! Maybe I will too! :oyvey:

To be completely honest, the talent drop off isn't that big from a Paea to a 7th round prospect.

Most of these guys just don't get the chance due to their later draft pedigree. In fact, it took a ST teams hit for TD to get a chance. It took an injury for Brady to get a chance. It took a GREAT NFL player in Sterling Sharpe for Shannon to probably even get drafted and then Elway believing in him for him to see playing time.

Obviously that's not gonna happen every time, but this isn't nearly as "the sky is falling" bleak that people are making it out to be.

Not even close.

Requiem
04-30-2011, 08:45 AM
Ro-ram gets...

http://www.halfthedeck.com/images/owned53.jpg

oubronco
04-30-2011, 08:46 AM
We'll see

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-30-2011, 09:04 AM
Ro-ram gets...

http://www.halfthedeck.com/images/owned53.jpg

:rofl:

ChampBailey24
04-30-2011, 09:38 AM
another S?

Rohirrim
04-30-2011, 10:13 AM
Can't win if you don't play.

By the way, that 'somebody' was us. Twice. Three times if you count Mecklenburg.

Saying that all we're looking for is backups and special teams players insinuates that's all that is available. I showed you some exceptions.

And I thought it was kind of funny, too. Sorry about the death of your sense of humor. It had a good life.

It's okay. Every time I see another of your posts, I get a nice laugh.

Rohirrim
04-30-2011, 10:14 AM
Ro-ram gets...

http://www.halfthedeck.com/images/owned53.jpg

Glad to see you back out of rehab. :thumbs: