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View Full Version : The Duke on Tebow- I'm his biggest fan


Hercules Rockefeller
04-28-2011, 09:58 AM
"Let's put it this way, I'm his biggest fan," Elway said. "He's one of those guys who -- if he comes out and is the player we hope he can be -- then we're in pretty darn good shape. He's a great ambassador for us as a team. He realizes, and I've told him: the bottom line is, 'You can do all those things and make all those plays that a lot of guys can't do, and that's something you have that they don't -- but you have to realize for us to be champions, you have to be able to win it from the pocket and make all those throws from the pocket."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6442597

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-28-2011, 09:59 AM
See ya, Kyle. Godspeed.

oubronco
04-28-2011, 10:01 AM
So much for teams thinking they are taking a QB

schaaf
04-28-2011, 10:01 AM
I just read it this morning, I kinda felt he really felt this way...

strafen
04-28-2011, 10:04 AM
We've gotta go all out with Tebow.

Beantown Bronco
04-28-2011, 10:06 AM
Smokescreen. Tebow will be traded tonight.

TheReverend
04-28-2011, 10:08 AM
Pffft. I'M his biggest fan, John.

Missouribronc
04-28-2011, 10:08 AM
Smokescreen. Tebow will be traded tonight.

Exactly my first thought when I read it. Kiss of Death.

TheReverend
04-28-2011, 10:08 AM
Smokescreen. Tebow will be traded tonight.

CIA disinfo?

bendog
04-28-2011, 10:21 AM
For Christ's sake, Elway isn't gonna say something like that and THEN trade the guy. The freaking Tebowites would first stone him by throwing their season tix and then hoist him up on a cross. Elway may not be a great NFL exec, but he didn't sell all those cars doing stupid ****e like dissing the mooks paying for the rides.

Killericon
04-28-2011, 10:31 AM
Exactly my first thought when I read it. Kiss of Death.

Elway =/= Shanahan. We'll see if Elway is as big a fan of the outright lie as Mike is.

Jason in LA
04-28-2011, 10:34 AM
Sounds like Elway supports Tebow, but he left himself some wiggle room to get out of it if Tebow doesn't improve from the pocket. Elway pretty much said that he likes certain qualities about Tebow (leadership and play making ability), but if he doesn't improve as a passer then the team will be going in a different direction. I'm with that. Give Tebow his shot now to see if he's legit. If he's not, move on as quickly as possible.

HEAV
04-28-2011, 10:47 AM
I knew 7 would see the playmaker that Tebow is, it's like John seeing a younger/raw version of himself.

Tebow may not be as groomed as John was, at this stage of his career, but Tebow has the ability to make plays with his mobility. He can be taught to be a pocket guy and we all know Tebow will work & work and then work some more on becoming a complete quarterback.

I feel that John see's the talent and knows the effort will be there. He just wants to see it come together (as we all do) as soon as possible on the field. But as a GM/President he needs to support Tebow, but also show that if it doesn't work out the team will make a move to a new direction.

But for now it's Tebow time to show he can be the guy.

Tombstone RJ
04-28-2011, 10:48 AM
Elway knows what it takes to win championships and he knows that if you suck throwing the ball in the pocket, especially in the big games, the team will not win a Lombardi. Elway knows what he's talking about, he wasn't exactly the best QB in his first 3 SBs (not that he had much help).

Pony Boy
04-28-2011, 10:54 AM
That's it I'm going to change my name to "TebowNut" for sure..........

BroncoMan4ever
04-28-2011, 10:58 AM
That's it I'm going to change my name to "TebowNut" for sure..........

i think Teboner has a better ring to it

JDB7821
04-28-2011, 11:10 AM
It was only a matter of time before he realized what everyone else around here has...no quarterback in this draft offers what Tebow does. He's going to be a great one, just be patient. It's now time for Elway and the rest of the front office to throw their full support behind him. A quarterback needs to know he has the confidence of the coaching staff that he's the guy, not the flip flop that goes on like in San Francisco.

oubronco
04-28-2011, 11:13 AM
Maybe he feels like Tebow can take them to the #1 pick next year so he can get Luck

ColoradoDarin
04-28-2011, 11:14 AM
John, you're supposed to say this after we get Minny's 2nd round pick for Orton...

Pony Boy
04-28-2011, 11:21 AM
i think Teboner has a better ring to it

I was just poking the bear at the zoo........trying to see if the biggest Tebow hater on the Mane was awake yet.

Kaylore
04-28-2011, 11:26 AM
Sounds like Elway supports Tebow, but he left himself some wiggle room to get out of it if Tebow doesn't improve from the pocket. Elway pretty much said that he likes certain qualities about Tebow (leadership and play making ability), but if he doesn't improve as a passer then the team will be going in a different direction. I'm with that. Give Tebow his shot now to see if he's legit. If he's not, move on as quickly as possible.

Really this isn't anything he hasn't been saying. I'm not convinced he's even endorsing him with these comments as much as everyone here thinks.

Taco John
04-28-2011, 11:39 AM
Really this isn't anything he hasn't been saying. I'm not convinced he's even endorsing him with these comments as much as everyone here thinks.

It's pretty hard to back away from "I'm his biggest fan." I mean, before this comment, Elway had left some wiggle room for people to believe that the Broncos might be willing to trade Tebow, and that Orton might even be the starter in September. Now you're led to believe that the Broncos are not only NOT going to trade him, but they will be giving Tebow the start in September.

At least that's my read on it. I'd be surprised if in the end it worked out any other way at this point.

alkemical
04-28-2011, 11:45 AM
Hmm.

Quoydogs
04-28-2011, 11:46 AM
Exactly my first thought when I read it. Kiss of Death.

I thought players couldn't be traded? So Confused. Please help

Signed

Clueless

Drek
04-28-2011, 11:52 AM
It's pretty hard to back away from "I'm his biggest fan." I mean, before this comment, Elway had left some wiggle room for people to believe that the Broncos might be willing to trade Tebow, and that Orton might even be the starter in September. Now you're led to believe that the Broncos are not only NOT going to trade him, but they will be giving Tebow the start in September.

At least that's my read on it. I'd be surprised if in the end it worked out any other way at this point.

Tebow is going to win the starting job in whatever we have that constitutes camp, but not because he's Elway's boy. He'll win it because Tebow is busy busting ass to be the very best QB he can be.

I can't wait to see Tebow next year. The guy has never put even half as much time into developing his game as he will this off-season. At Florida he was a student athlete and his practice time was strictly limited. He spent a lot of time doing charity and mission work over his summers. He's now had from the start of rookie camp last year, through all last season, and from the end of the season to now where all he's had to worry about and work on was being a better QB. Someone with his work ethic and love of the game is going to make something special happen given that much time to improve.

HEAV
04-28-2011, 11:54 AM
Elway knows what it takes to win championships and he knows that if you suck throwing the ball in the pocket, especially in the big games, the team will not win a Lombardi. Elway knows what he's talking about, he wasn't exactly the best QB in his first 3 SBs (not that he had much help).

I think John understands that College football isn't running many pro style offense's and that the days of a NFL ready QB prospect are smaller than ever. That's why Cam Newton may very well be the Number 1. His talent is there and the Panthers could build a offense around his talent.

Denver has and will have to build a offense around Tebows skills, while still teaching him the pocket game and working on technique.

oubronco
04-28-2011, 11:54 AM
Tebow is going to win the starting job in whatever we have that constitutes camp, but not because he's Elway's boy. He'll win it because Tebow is busy busting ass to be the very best QB he can be.

I can't wait to see Tebow next year. The guy has never put even half as much time into developing his game as he will this off-season. At Florida he was a student athlete and his practice time was strictly limited. He spent a lot of time doing charity and mission work over his summers. He's now had from the start of rookie camp last year, through all last season, and from the end of the season to now where all he's had to worry about and work on was being a better QB. Someone with his work ethic and love of the game is going to make something special happen given that much time to improve.

One can only hope

jhns
04-28-2011, 11:57 AM
Really this isn't anything he hasn't been saying. I'm not convinced he's even endorsing him with these comments as much as everyone here thinks.

???

"I think where we are as an organization, we're going to go with Tim."

razorwire77
04-28-2011, 11:58 AM
There is plenty of wiggle room and qualifiers in Elway's statement, but it seems pretty rational to me. Basically, Tim is a "hero" as a person. He thinks Tim can be special and make plays (which was proven last year). But he has to improve his mechanics and ability to throw from the pocket. That's a huge qualifier, but I think it's basically indicating that Tebow is going to be given 2012 to prove he can improve this part of his game.

cmhargrove
04-28-2011, 12:03 PM
i think Teboner has a better ring to it

What about Te-ballsack?

MABroncoFan
04-28-2011, 12:03 PM
rotoworld.com

ESPN's Ed Werder, on the scene in Denver, "senses" that the Broncos believe Kyle Orton has "proven to be what he is" as a mediocre starting quarterback.

Orton finished at the bottom of the pack in passer rating on third-downs and in the red-zone, usually a sign of poor arm strength and questionable decision-making. John Elway knows the value of a true franchise QB and is sensitive to public's outcry for Tim Tebow. We still find it hard to believe that Orton will hold off Tebow for the Week 1 starting gig. Related: Tim TebowSource: MileHighReport.com Apr 28, 1:46 PM

TailgateNut
04-28-2011, 12:10 PM
Smokescreen. Tebow will be traded tonight.

We can hope!

MABroncoFan
04-28-2011, 12:12 PM
I see no reason not to go with Tebow next year. Find out if can be the franchise QB, and if not and they finish 4-12 or so again, then go after a guy like Luck.

At the least he brings an added dimension w/ his running ability, and as a red zone threat.

Mogulseeker
04-28-2011, 12:17 PM
That's it I'm going to change my name to "TebowNut" for sure..........

I thought Tebow was a virgin.

dbfan21
04-28-2011, 12:23 PM
Tebow is going to win the starting job in whatever we have that constitutes camp, but not because he's Elway's boy. He'll win it because Tebow is busy busting ass to be the very best QB he can be.

I can't wait to see Tebow next year. The guy has never put even half as much time into developing his game as he will this off-season. At Florida he was a student athlete and his practice time was strictly limited. He spent a lot of time doing charity and mission work over his summers. He's now had from the start of rookie camp last year, through all last season, and from the end of the season to now where all he's had to worry about and work on was being a better QB. Someone with his work ethic and love of the game is going to make something special happen given that much time to improve.

I sure hope you're right. I want Tim to be our guy for the next 14 years, leading the team on and off the field, winning Super Bowls, etc.

epicSocialism4tw
04-28-2011, 12:23 PM
rotoworld.com

ESPN's Ed Werder, on the scene in Denver, "senses" that the Broncos believe Kyle Orton has "proven to be what he is" as a mediocre starting quarterback.

Orton finished at the bottom of the pack in passer rating on third-downs and in the red-zone, usually a sign of poor arm strength and questionable decision-making. John Elway knows the value of a true franchise QB and is sensitive to public's outcry for Tim Tebow. We still find it hard to believe that Orton will hold off Tebow for the Week 1 starting gig. Related: Tim TebowSource: MileHighReport.com Apr 28, 1:46 PM

"With that, while acknowledging there will be competition for the starting job, Elway seemed to hint that Tebow is Denver's likely starter this year"
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6442597

Beat you to it, Jerkules Schlock-a-fella. ;D
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3163153&postcount=1

zdoor
04-28-2011, 12:27 PM
Nice!!! We've got nothing to lose going with Tebow. We're not likely playoff caliber next year and worst case, we're in line for Luck. Best case, we're set with a guy who'll give us evrything he's got every day he's a Bronco...

Lestat
04-28-2011, 12:31 PM
don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you. :thumbsup:
See ya, Kyle. Godspeed.

MacGruder
04-28-2011, 12:35 PM
Nice!!! We've got nothing to lose going with Tebow. We're not likely playoff caliber next year and worst case, we're in line for Luck. Best case, we're set with a guy who'll give us evrything he's got every day he's a Bronco...

Luck is going to be completely exposed this year.. just like Locker last year.. just like Cam would have been if he stayed at Auburn...

Without AU's line Cam would have fallen apart faster than a Chinese motorcycle..

Beantown Bronco
04-28-2011, 12:36 PM
Not to single anyone out, but why is it always:

Best case: Tebow does well and the team is set at QB for years.
Worst case: Tebow sucks and the team as a result is in position to draft Luck next year.

Nobody ever acknowledges the possibility of the true worst case: Tebow sucks, isn't the future, and the team sucks but not quite enough to earn a top draft pick again. Luck goes to someone else drafting ahead of us and nobody else at the position has a 1st round grade. Now THAT is a true worst case scenario.

chrisp
04-28-2011, 12:45 PM
???

"I think where we are as an organization, we're going to go with Tim."

I think this means "We're going to go with Tim instread of drafting another Qb in the first round" not "We're going to go with Tim as the starter" but that doesn't mean all that much. Going QB in the first would basically be a case of throwing Tebow under a bus, so all he's saying is they aren't ready to do that yet.

So the situation is this: Orton is the starter going into camp, Tebow must unseat him legitimately or he rides the pine, but they do see potential in him so they are not going to go in another direction just yet, despite the fact that they worked out the top QB prospects.

Of course, no-one seriously believed we were going to draft a QB did they? Well, Ok, we're pretty shellshocked here on the mane so perhaps some of US did, but the most important thing is that no sane GM for any of the other teams bought that line so I think that John is pretty comfortable a day before the draft telling everyone we're not drafting a QB...

Beantown Bronco
04-28-2011, 12:47 PM
This is going to make it all the more comical when they DO go QB early.

epicSocialism4tw
04-28-2011, 12:49 PM
Not to single anyone out, but why is it always:

Best case: Tebow does well and the team is set at QB for years.
Worst case: Tebow sucks and the team as a result is in position to draft Luck next year.

Nobody ever acknowledges the possibility of the true worst case: Tebow sucks, isn't the future, and the team sucks but not quite enough to earn a top draft pick again. Luck goes to someone else drafting ahead of us and nobody else at the position has a 1st round grade. Now THAT is a true worst case scenario.

I think that its possible that Tim turns into a sort of Jeff Garcia on steroids. If that is what he ultimately is, and he's still wildly successful in the red zone, then you're happy with that. He becomes a ballsy team leader who gets it done when and where it matters most. The fans would absolutely love that kind of player. He doesnt have to be Peyton Manning or even Tom Brady. He just has to get it done. He has to convert on 3rd down and score TD's in the red zone. That kind of player, a solid run game, and a fierce defense wins championships.

jhns
04-28-2011, 12:51 PM
This is going to make it all the more comical when they DO go QB early.

That would make me sad no matter what. It doesn't even matter who we currently have. The QBs in this class are horrible. I wouod rather go with Orton for a year and pick one next draft if they don't like Tebow.

dbfan21
04-28-2011, 01:00 PM
I think that its possible that Tim turns into a sort of Jeff Garcia on steroids. If that is what he ultimately is, and he's still wildly successful in the red zone, then you're happy with that. He becomes a ballsy team leader who gets it done when and where it matters most. The fans would absolutely love that kind of player. He doesnt have to be Peyton Manning or even Tom Brady. He just has to get it done. He has to convert on 3rd down and score TD's in the red zone. That kind of player, a solid run game, and a fierce defense wins championships.

Exactly! I don't feel that Tebow HAS to be a 10 out of 10 when it comes to QB skill sets. If he can be an 8, and we have a stellar run game with a solid defense, we can still win multiple championships.

Beantown Bronco
04-28-2011, 01:01 PM
I think that its possible that Tim turns into a sort of Jeff Garcia on steroids.

I just can't see Tim marrying a ridiculously hot Playboy Centerfold with serious anger issues, but man would that be awesome.

razorwire77
04-28-2011, 01:02 PM
Nobody ever acknowledges the possibility of the true worst case: Tebow sucks, isn't the future, and the team sucks but not quite enough to earn a top draft pick again. Luck goes to someone else drafting ahead of us and nobody else at the position has a 1st round grade. Now THAT is a true worst case scenario.

Say we finish 6-10 and pick somewhere between 10-14, even in that crappy scenario there should still a number of QB prospects to take in that range. In addition to Luck, I think Barkley is going to be really good, Lindley from SDSU has 1st round talent and a huge arm. If the Aztecs have another solid season, I think he'll shoot up draft boards. A lot of people like Landry Jones too, although I'm not as convinced.

epicSocialism4tw
04-28-2011, 01:03 PM
Exactly! I don't feel that Tebow HAS to be a 10 out of 10 when it comes to QB skill sets. If he can be an 8, and we have a stellar run game with a solid defense, we can still win multiple championships.

If he's good enough to convert when he has to, he can be a 5 or 6 when it comes to what he does in the pocket.

He's one of those guys who thrives under pressure. That's what the Broncos have needed for years. Jake Plummer was almost that. I think that Tebow is that.

I think that Elway and Fox have been publicly ambiguous on Tebow to help spur Tebow on to work hard. If you have a guy who puts in the work, you dont need to pat him on the butt all the time. You challenge him.

Beantown Bronco
04-28-2011, 01:05 PM
Say we finish 6-10 and pick somewhere between 10-14, even in that crappy scenario there should still a number of QB prospects to take in that range. In addition to Luck, I think Barkley is going to be really good, Lindley from SDSU has 1st round talent and a huge arm. If the Aztecs have another solid season, I think he'll shoot up draft boards. A lot of people like Landry Jones too, although I'm not as convinced.

That's fine, but you're changing the scenario. I'm waiting for someone to acknowledge that we might not be in a position to draft even the top 2-3 QBs.......or crazy things could happen this year in the NCAA and MAYBE Barkley, Lindley, etc. have their stock plummet out of the first entirely.

zdoor
04-28-2011, 01:08 PM
Not to single anyone out, but why is it always:

Best case: Tebow does well and the team is set at QB for years.
Worst case: Tebow sucks and the team as a result is in position to draft Luck next year.

Nobody ever acknowledges the possibility of the true worst case: Tebow sucks, isn't the future, and the team sucks but not quite enough to earn a top draft pick again. Luck goes to someone else drafting ahead of us and nobody else at the position has a 1st round grade. Now THAT is a true worst case scenario.

How is that different? You're splitting hairs... Worst case with Tebow likely yields a better pick than going with Orton and still missing the playoffs...

No way to say what it will take to get the top pick, what other records will be and whether there is a draft... Hopefully we don't see the worst case but I still don't see a big advantage to Kyle "choke in the clutch" Orton...

Tombstone RJ
04-28-2011, 01:08 PM
That's fine, but you're changing the scenario. I'm waiting for someone to acknowledge that we might not be in a position to draft even the top 2-3 QBs.......or crazy things could happen this year in the NCAA and MAYBE Barkley, Lindley, etc. have their stock plummet out of the first entirely.

Worst case scenario is the Broncos finish this coming season around 8-8 and still not sure if Tebow is the long term solution. Do the Broncos draft a high round QB or give Tebow another year?

epicSocialism4tw
04-28-2011, 01:11 PM
Say we finish 6-10 and pick somewhere between 10-14, even in that crappy scenario there should still a number of QB prospects to take in that range. In addition to Luck, I think Barkley is going to be really good, Lindley from SDSU has 1st round talent and a huge arm. If the Aztecs have another solid season, I think he'll shoot up draft boards. A lot of people like Landry Jones too, although I'm not as convinced.

Landry Jones has alot of big time skills. He's probably going to win the Heisman next year.

He can make every throw and he's relatively athletic for the position.

He has been a little too inconsistent for me to crown him like Bradford, Adrian Peterson, Phil Loadholt, Trent Williams, Tommie Harris, or any of those guys who stood out in every game they played at OU.

This, however, is Landry's big year. He could blow the doors off the thing. He hasnt been as good as Bradford early in his career, but he has been pretty good compared to the careers of most NCAA QB's. Bradford was just an unbelievable player all the way through his OU career. I doubt OU will ever see another guy like that come through. (in the voice of a scooby doo villain) "If it wasnt for that blasted Tebow, Bradford may be considered the greatest college QB of all time!" Seriously. Tebow upstaged Bradford all over the place, and alot of OU fans are still bitter about it.

Beantown Bronco
04-28-2011, 01:11 PM
Worst case scenario is the Broncos finish this coming season around 8-8 and still not sure if Tebow is the long term solution. Do the Broncos draft a high round QB or give Tebow another year?

Exactly. That's exactly what I'm proposing.

Rother8
04-28-2011, 01:12 PM
Pffft. I'M his biggest fan, John.

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DuNkqFwqjow" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Beantown Bronco
04-28-2011, 01:13 PM
How is that different? You're splitting hairs... Worst case with Tebow likely yields a better pick than going with Orton and still missing the playoffs...

Did you read my post? Splitting hairs? It's the complete opposite.

One worst case scenario has us getting the #1 pick (presumably) next year to use on the (presumably) best QB prospect in years.

My worst case scenario has us without a real QB on our roster and no chance to get Luck (or even the next tier of QB) next year.

zdoor
04-28-2011, 01:15 PM
Did you read my post? Splitting hairs? It's the complete opposite.

One worst case scenario has us getting the #1 pick (presumably) next year to use on the (presumably) best QB prospect in years.

My worst case scenario has us without a real QB on our roster and no chance to get Luck (or even the next tier of QB) next year.

Your trying to find an argument where there really isn't one... There is no "sure way to land the top pick" and no team approaches it that way. But, if Tebow completely flops we'll likely have a higher pick than starting Orton which IMO still will have us missing the playoffs... That is the point

epicSocialism4tw
04-28-2011, 01:16 PM
Your trying to find an argument where there really isn't one... There is no "sure way to land the top pick" and no team approaches it that way. But, if Tebow completely flops we'll likely have q higher pick than starting Orton which IMO still will have us missing the playoffs... That is the point

Andrew Luck might not be a top 10 pick next year. You never know. Ask Jake Locker.

razorwire77
04-28-2011, 01:17 PM
Landry Jones has alot of big time skills. He's probably going to win the Heisman next year.

He can make every throw and he's relatively athletic for the position.

He has been a little too inconsistent for me to crown him like Bradford, Adrian Peterson, Phil Loadholt, Trent Williams, Tommie Harris, or any of those guys who stood out in every game they played at OU.



The inconsistency is what worries me. No doubt he has an excellent arm and quick release. To me, it's sort of a wait and see with Jones. But I guess that's true with every other QB prospect too.

Tombstone RJ
04-28-2011, 01:18 PM
Andrew Luck might not be a top 10 pick next year. You never know. Ask Jake Locker.

It's kinda cruel that Luck stays at Stanford, yet his coach says "see ya!" We shall see how this affects Luck...

zdoor
04-28-2011, 01:18 PM
Andrew Luck might not be a top 10 pick next year. You never know. Ask Jake Locker.

Agree...

Beantown Bronco
04-28-2011, 01:19 PM
Your trying to find an argument where there really isn't one... There is no "sure way to land the top pick" and no team approaches it that way. But, if Tebow completely flops we'll likely have a higher pick than starting Orton which IMO still will have us missing the playoffs... That is the point

That may be your point, but that's not the way your post read. I've literally seen that identical post from at least 10 different Mane posters so far and it is a pet peeve of mine. All of them read the same way:

Worst case scenario by starting Tebow over Orton: we suck and draft Luck. Period. That's what is written. It's clearly NOT the worst case scenario. That is MY point.

And if it's your point that "if Tebow completely flops we'll likely have a higher pick than starting Orton", I might tend to disagree with that as well. Just look at today. We're drafting #2 overall because of Orton's record as a starter, not Tebow.

Tombstone RJ
04-28-2011, 01:23 PM
I think for Tebow to really solidify his position as the Broncos long term QB, he has to show mega improvement and lead the team to at least 8-9 wins, and be playing his best football at the end of the season.

If he doesn't do all that, I think Elway may make a bid for Luck, or another pro-ready college QB.

Luck will probably have to have a real bad year for him to not be considered the top QB prospect. I mean, real bad.

zdoor
04-28-2011, 01:24 PM
That may be your point, but that's not the way your post read. I've literally seen that identical post from at least 10 different Mane posters so far and it is a pet peeve of mine. All of them read the same way:

Worst case scenario by starting Tebow over Orton: we suck and draft Luck. Period. That's what is written. It's clearly NOT the worst case scenario. That is MY point.

And if it's your point that "if Tebow completely flops we'll likely have a higher pick than starting Orton", I might tend to disagree with that as well. Just look at today. We're drafting #2 overall because of Orton's record as a starter, not Tebow.

So what is your preferred scenario? You seem to have an argument against any view... I'm stating mine. I don't think Tebow is going to flop but it's defintely possible. I don't see going with Orton as a better scenario where we still have no idea what the guy we spent a 1st on already can do. There is no perfect scenario but I think going with Tebow is the best choice since we're already invested.

My point was we'll know if he sucks and can move on at that point or see if he shows promise. Your point, I'm not really sure....

epicSocialism4tw
04-28-2011, 01:28 PM
I think for Tebow to really solidify his position as the Broncos long term QB, he has to show mega improvement and lead the team to at least 8-9 wins, and be playing his best football at the end of the season.

If he doesn't do all that, I think Elway may make a bid for Luck, or another pro-ready college QB.

Luck will probably have to have a real bad year for him to not be considered the top QB prospect. I mean, real bad.

This team isnt ready for 8 or 9 wins, and I dont think it has anything to do with Tebow.

There are so many holes and question marks on the defense that I just do not see the Broncos being competitive on that side of the ball unless there are a couple of major free agent additions and they hit homeruns on a couple of draft picks.

There are also questions with the run game and the offensive line.

In reality, McDaniels left the Broncos a team in disarray without any strengths.

gunns
04-28-2011, 01:29 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6442597

This is exactly what I've always thought it was. Elway like's Tebow, the person he can be, but he doesn't believe in him as a QB because he doesn't have the throwing mechanics right now. And unfortunately in this league you have to win now. His learning curve is basically this year, if there is a year, otherwise Elway will be shooting for Luck.

epicSocialism4tw
04-28-2011, 01:29 PM
Broncos fans should be ready for a rough season next year.

They should also be ready to be patient with their young QB, just like they were with John Elway.

Tombstone RJ
04-28-2011, 01:31 PM
This team isnt ready for 8 or 9 wins, and I dont think it has anything to do with Tebow.

There are so many holes and question marks on the defense that I just do not see the Broncos being competitive on that side of the ball unless there are a couple of major free agent additions and they hit homeruns on a couple of draft picks.

There are also questions with the run game and the offensive line.

In reality, McDaniels left the Broncos a team in disarray without any strengths.

I disagree. This is the NFL where teams can turn it around in a very, very short amount of time. The defense will be better (may be not great, but much improved), and I'm pretty sure the running game will be better too.

I think the Broncos will be in a lot of close games. It will be Tebow's job to get the Broncos over the hump in those close games. That's what winners do.

NUB
04-28-2011, 01:33 PM
If anything this is a signal to the rest of the league to start looking at Orton in a trade (if such trades are doable, anyway); if not now, then later.

oubronco
04-28-2011, 01:34 PM
Broncos fans should be ready for a rough season next year.

They should also be ready to be patient with their young QB, just like they were with John Elway.

I agree 4-5 wins IMO

gunns
04-28-2011, 01:36 PM
Broncos fans should be ready for a rough season next year.

They should also be ready to be patient with their young QB, just like they were with John Elway.

The difference is Elway had the mechanics and everything else Tebow has now and everyone knew it. Yes Tebow's mistakes are rookie, jittery mistakes but some are his mechanics. And the league is a win now and if anyone isn't going to have the patient with Tebow it's Elway unless he see's real progress. If Luck isn't the top 10 QB next year there will be another.

Beantown Bronco
04-28-2011, 01:38 PM
So what is your preferred scenario? You seem to have an argument against any view... I'm stating mine. I don't think Tebow is going to flop but it's defintely possible. I don't see going with Orton as a better scenario where we still have no idea what the guy we spent a 1st on already can do. There is no perfect scenario but I think going with Tebow is the best choice since we're already invested.

My point was we'll know if he sucks and can move on at that point or see if he shows promise. Your point, I'm not really sure....

I've clearly stated my point in multiple posts, very clearly. I even went so far as to capitalize it. I think we're talking past each other because you are looking for me to post what I think will happen; whereas all I'm doing is trying to explain to the 10 posters that think they know what the worst case scenario is, that they're wrong. There is a "worst" worst case scenario than the "we'll just draft Luck" scenario. That's all. I'm not saying it will or will not happen. I'm just saying it's a possibility. We COULD finish the year in the middle of the pack, with even more uncertainty at the QB position, and find ourselves outside the range of the top QB prospects. It's possible. But these 10 posters don't see that possibility. It's either "Tebow does well and is the future" or "Tebow sucks and we get Luck". Period.

Now, to answer your question. I don't care who the starter is this year as long as they earn it in training camp/preseason/whatever the lockout situation allows. I don't want it to be decided by anything else other than merit. I like both players for different reasons and really do believe Tebow will win it, if not before week one, eventually at some point during the season. And he won't let it go once he has it.

broncoblue
04-28-2011, 01:38 PM
I agree 4-5 wins IMO

16-0;D

zdoor
04-28-2011, 01:39 PM
I've clearly stated my point in multiple posts, very clearly. I even went so far as to capitalize it. I think we're talking past each other because you are looking for me to post what I think will happen; whereas all I'm doing is trying to explain to the 10 posters that think they know what the worst case scenario is, that they're wrong. There is a "worst" worst case scenario than the "we'll just draft Luck" scenario. That's all. I'm not saying it will or will not happen. I'm just saying it's a possibility. We COULD finish the year in the middle of the pack, with even more uncertainty at the QB position, and find ourselves outside the range of the top QB prospects. It's possible. But these 10 posters don't see that possibility. It's either "Tebow does well and is the future" or "Tebow sucks and we get Luck". Period.

Now, to answer your question. I don't care who the starter is this year as long as they earn it in training camp/preseason/whatever the lockout situation allows. I don't want it to be decided by anything else other than merit. I like both players for different reasons and really do believe Tebow will win it, if not before week one, eventually at some point during the season. And he won't let it go once he has it.

Fair enough...

oubronco
04-28-2011, 01:40 PM
16-0;D

Reverse mojo man comeon

epicSocialism4tw
04-28-2011, 01:41 PM
The difference is Elway had the mechanics and everything else Tebow has now and everyone knew it. Yes Tebow's mistakes are rookie, jittery mistakes but some are his mechanics. And the league is a win now and if anyone isn't going to have the patient with Tebow it's Elway unless he see's real progress. If Luck isn't the top 10 QB next year there will be another.

Tebow was better than John Elway as a rookie.

That's reality. That's what happened in 3 games last year. Tebow had a rating in those 3 games that ranked him in the top 15 in the NFL among all players. Thats what the stats bear out. Thats what the results were on the field.

Tebow led a comeback from 17 points down and helped the Broncos be competitive on the road in Oakland and against San Diego in the finale.

There's no reason at all to write Tebow off based on some mythical criticism of "mechanics" or anything else.

If we look at what actually happened, Tebow did exceedingly well for a rookie. In his small sample, Tebow was the best rookie QB in the NFL, and over the course of his first 3 games he compares favorably against the all-time greats...especially against John Elway. You cant extrapolate that out over 16 games and say thats the way its gonna be, but it makes more sense to rely on what we actually saw from him on the field than to depend on some words said by some guys on some websites somewhere.

John Elway has said nothing about Tebow that any of us didnt already know. Evidently he feels its okay to put carrots out there for Tebow in public, and not fear that Tebow will take it personally. We already knew that about Tebow as well.

bendog
04-28-2011, 01:56 PM
So what is your preferred scenario? You seem to have an argument against any view... I'm stating mine. I don't think Tebow is going to flop but it's defintely possible. I don't see going with Orton as a better scenario where we still have no idea what the guy we spent a 1st on already can do. There is no perfect scenario but I think going with Tebow is the best choice since we're already invested.

My point was we'll know if he sucks and can move on at that point or see if he shows promise. Your point, I'm not really sure....

I understand what you're saying: better to win two less games and find out if Tebow is or is not qb matl. However, I don't think that's the Dove Valley view. 1) It's clear that not all was hunky doory with McD and Orton, which is ironic since McD's supporters were pushing Orton's awesome stats as showing McD's genius level. The team never openly revolted against McD, but no one seemed sorry to see him go. 2) Elway flat out said our D sucked, and even so Den was better than it's record. Had Orton finished out the year, I'd be surprised if they didn't lose out. But the problem wasn't Orton. Den couldn't run inside the 20 and couldn't stop the run anywhere on the field. 3) I think Den's one goal this year is to be competitive and give fans a reason for optimism. If Tebow had convinced Elway or Fox he was ready to execute a full play book, Orton would be gone. Tebow hasn't, so assuming there's a training camp, imo it'll be an open competition. And I think that's the right reasoning. Imagine the despair if Tebow got thrown to the lions and couldn't slay the damn beasts.

TheReverend
04-28-2011, 02:00 PM
Imagine the despair if Tebow got thrown to the lions and couldn't slay the damn beasts.

Did you miss last year, or...?

cmhargrove
04-28-2011, 02:01 PM
I think that its possible that Tim turns into a sort of Jeff Garcia on steroids. If that is what he ultimately is, and he's still wildly successful in the red zone, then you're happy with that. He becomes a ballsy team leader who gets it done when and where it matters most. The fans would absolutely love that kind of player. He doesnt have to be Peyton Manning or even Tom Brady. He just has to get it done. He has to convert on 3rd down and score TD's in the red zone. That kind of player, a solid run game, and a fierce defense wins championships.

Rapliesburger will never be a Peyton Manning, but he does have more rings...

We need to develop the whole team, and Tebow will do more than his share to help us win.

bendog
04-28-2011, 02:01 PM
He hasn't shown he can consistetly make the plays from the pocket and execute a full playbook. Apparantly you can neither read what Elway said or watch football competently.

cmhargrove
04-28-2011, 02:04 PM
Andrew Luck might not be a top 10 pick next year. You never know. Ask Jake Locker.

and Taylor Mays, and Terrence Cody...

TheReverend
04-28-2011, 02:07 PM
He hasn't shown he can consistetly make the plays from the pocket and execute a full playbook. Apparantly you can neither read what Elway said or watch football competently.

I guess you missed the part I quoted... about being thrown to the lions.

2 of his starts were against the #1 and #2 ranked passing defenses in the league.

But hey, I'm the one who "can't read" I guess...

epicSocialism4tw
04-28-2011, 02:08 PM
He hasn't shown he can consistetly make the plays from the pocket and execute a full playbook. Apparantly you can neither read what Elway said or watch football competently.

He was a rookie with 3 games of experience.

I guess people want to expect more of him than they did of Michael Vick.

broncocalijohn
04-28-2011, 02:09 PM
Smokescreen. Tebow will be traded tonight.



Or Tebow. Build him up and send him packing.

TDmvp
04-28-2011, 02:10 PM
For the 1000th time players can't be traded when no CBA is in place ... moving on...

Beantown Bronco
04-28-2011, 02:19 PM
For the 1000th time players can't be traded when no CBA is in place ... moving on...

Judge Nelson disagrees.

razorwire77
04-28-2011, 02:27 PM
It's going to be interesting how teams play it. Will they try to trade players knowing that the trades might eventually be invalid?

Rabb
04-28-2011, 02:29 PM
I am pretty sure I read somewhere that players cannot be traded until possibly Monday...Schefter maybe?

gunns
04-28-2011, 02:40 PM
Tebow was better than John Elway as a rookie.

That's reality. That's what happened in 3 games last year. Tebow had a rating in those 3 games that ranked him in the top 15 in the NFL among all players. Thats what the stats bear out. Thats what the results were on the field.

Tebow led a comeback from 17 points down and helped the Broncos be competitive on the road in Oakland and against San Diego in the finale.

There's no reason at all to write Tebow off based on some mythical criticism of "mechanics" or anything else.

If we look at what actually happened, Tebow did exceedingly well for a rookie. In his small sample, Tebow was the best rookie QB in the NFL, and over the course of his first 3 games he compares favorably against the all-time greats...especially against John Elway. You cant extrapolate that out over 16 games and say thats the way its gonna be, but it makes more sense to rely on what we actually saw from him on the field than to depend on some words said by some guys on some websites somewhere.

John Elway has said nothing about Tebow that any of us didnt already know. Evidently he feels its okay to put carrots out there for Tebow in public, and not fear that Tebow will take it personally. We already knew that about Tebow as well.

You have ****ing got to be kidding me. Stats? You are going to predicate him being a better rookie QB based on STATS? I'm sure if he had started 10 games his stats would have gone down. Now I didn't say Elway played lights out in his rookie year. He had the rookie jitters like very other rookie QB. But you knew it was there and he showed it before the end of his rookie season. Tebow hasn't. He rushed for more TD's than anything AND he only completed 50% of his passes basically the same as Elway. We're talking about a pocket presence and no matter how you slice the dice, Tebow doesn't have that yet. I will say I like his calmness in the pocket though.

epicSocialism4tw
04-28-2011, 02:48 PM
You have ****ing got to be kidding me. Stats? You are going to predicate him being a better rookie QB based on STATS? I'm sure if he had started 10 games his stats would have gone down. Now I didn't say Elway played lights out in his rookie year. He had the rookie jitters like very other rookie QB. But you knew it was there and he showed it before the end of his rookie season. Tebow hasn't. He rushed for more TD's than anything AND he only completed 50% of his passes basically the same as Elway. We're talking about a pocket presence and no matter how you slice the dice, Tebow doesn't have that yet. I will say I like his calmness in the pocket though.

Elway had a 47% completion % over his entire rookie season.

He threw 1 TD for every 2 INT's.

He had an overall rating of 54.9.

He averaged about 150 yards a game passing and about 13 yards a game rushing.

Compared to Tebow, Elway's first year was pathetic.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm

TheReverend
04-28-2011, 02:54 PM
Elway had a 47% completion % over his entire rookie season.

He threw 1 TD for every 2 INT's.

He had an overall rating of 54.9.

He averaged about 150 yards a game passing and about 13 yards a game rushing.

Compared to Tebow, Elway's first year was pathetic.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm

The rules and league were totally the same then too.

cmhargrove
04-28-2011, 02:55 PM
Elway had a 47% completion % over his entire rookie season.

He threw 1 TD for every 2 INT's.

He had an overall rating of 54.9.

He averaged about 150 yards a game passing and about 13 yards a game rushing.

Compared to Tebow, Elway's first year was pathetic.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm

I remember laughing at Elway during his rookie year. You knew it would be there someday because he flashed the skills, but there was a lot of head knocking as well.

epicSocialism4tw
04-28-2011, 03:05 PM
I remember laughing at Elway during his rookie year. You knew it would be there someday because he flashed the skills, but there was a lot of head knocking as well.

Exactly.

Which is why it is silly to go around fretting about Tebow's "mechanics".

We all saw what we saw. Tebow can play. Just like Elway's rookie year. The statistics bear it out that Tebow had a commendable opening three games, not an opening three games to be ashamed of.

Boobs McGee
04-28-2011, 03:08 PM
As much as I enjoy hearing this from John, isn't there a possibility he's saying it BECAUSE he might know that xanders/Fox dislike him, and if they DO trade him, he'll come out looking like roses?

Thought I read somewhere that it's like a committee decision, where 2 of 3 gets the vote.

Just brainstorming here

MacGruder
04-28-2011, 03:17 PM
There are also questions with the run game and the offensive line.

In reality, McDaniels left the Broncos a team in disarray without any strengths.

Actually they had a great strength.. you just couldn't see it because Orton was fool's gold..

Beantown Bronco
04-28-2011, 03:18 PM
Boobs, I think you stumbled on something there.

Technically, logic dictates that one WOULD have to conclude that John Fox and Brian Xanders are NOT Tebow's biggest fans. :)

yerner
04-28-2011, 03:21 PM
I don't care what Elway's saying, if John had been making picks last year Tebow wouldn't be on the team.

Tombstone RJ
04-28-2011, 03:21 PM
As much as I enjoy hearing this from John, isn't there a possibility he's saying it BECAUSE he might know that xanders/Fox dislike him, and if they DO trade him, he'll come out looking like roses?

Thought I read somewhere that it's like a committee decision, where 2 of 3 gets the vote.

Just brainstorming here

I'm pretty sure Elway would have final say on a trade like this. Not only that, I'm pretty sure Elway would consult Bowlen and Ellis before trading Tebow. I don't think it's as simple as 2 against 1 so buh-bye.

Tombstone RJ
04-28-2011, 03:24 PM
I don't care what Elway's saying, if John had been making picks last year Tebow wouldn't be on the team.

And I'm pretty sure that if other teams knew how good Tebow would play his rookie season, then they may have taken Tebow in the first round too.

StugotsIII
04-28-2011, 03:27 PM
Tebow is a special player. He did well as a starter end of year.

With a better offensive line, more consistent running game and a much improved defense it's pretty scary to imagine what Tebow could accomplish.

Tebow is clearly the Broncos future at QB. Get used to it haters.

broncocalijohn
04-28-2011, 03:30 PM
Actually they had a great strength.. you just couldn't see it because Orton was fool's gold..

Yeah, let me know what position Orton played on Defense. If you think Orton is the problem the Broncos were the 2nd worst team for you, you probably believe in conspiracy theories galore. Oh wait.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-28-2011, 03:32 PM
Tebow is a special player. He did well as a starter end of year.

With a better offensive line, more consistent running game and a much improved defense it's pretty scary to imagine what Tebow could accomplish.

Tebow is clearly the Broncos future at QB. Get used to it haters.

I doubt there is a single person on this forum who actively wants Tebow to fail. That, to me, would be a hater.

Expressing doubts that he has what it takes doesn't make me a hater. I just haven't seen it yet. I hope I do, because I think he's here for a while.

I don't hate the guy. I just have some concerns.

Victor
04-28-2011, 03:34 PM
Pffft. I'M his biggest fan, John.

haha...Rep. :thumbs:

MacGruder
04-28-2011, 03:47 PM
Yeah, let me know what position Orton played on Defense. If you think Orton is the problem the Broncos were the 2nd worst team for you, you probably believe in conspiracy theories galore. Oh wait.

Have you ever heard of offense being defense?

Hmm.. Orton was arguably the most unaggressive, passive, conservative QB in the league.. and he played for an offensive boy wonder who didn't miss a beat when Tom Brady went down and a virtual rookie took his place..

Then look how the Broncos D performed when Tebow was the QB..

Look how Orton's lack of mobility and Tebow's stellar mobility affected the Broncos run game..

Conspiracy.. right...

TailgateNut
04-28-2011, 03:51 PM
Tebow is a special player. He did well as a starter end of year.

With a better offensive line, more consistent running game and a much improved defense it's pretty scary to imagine what Orton could have accomplished.

Tebow is clearly the Broncos future at QB. Get used to it haters.


FIFY

TheReverend
04-28-2011, 03:51 PM
Have you ever heard of offense being defense?

Hmm.. Orton was arguably the most unaggressive, passive, conservative QB in the league.. and he played for an offensive boy wonder who didn't miss a beat when Tom Brady went down and a virtual rookie took his place..

Then look how the Broncos D performed when Tebow was the QB..

Look how Orton's lack of mobility and Tebow's stellar mobility affected the Broncos run game..

Conspiracy.. right...

NFL disinfo.

StugotsIII
04-28-2011, 04:11 PM
FIFY

He would have continued to fizzle in the redzone and on 3rd down.