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epicSocialism4tw
04-23-2011, 10:22 AM
Good stuff here. Check it, yo.

"Since 2002, no position has played in a higher percentage of possible team games among first-round draft picks than linebackers. The 27 linebackers drafted in the first round during this stretch have been on the field an average of 88.1 percent of all possible games."

"Twenty-four of the 27 linebackers (88.9 percent) were still in the league last season. The only position that had a higher percentage was tight ends (100 percent).

Linebackers represent the highest achievement value among all first-round draftees over the past nine years. Linebackers have combined for Pro Bowl and All-Pro selections as well as Super Bowl appearances at a higher percentage than any other position drafted in the first round during this period. Eight of the 27 linebackers have earned All-Pro honors. That is the highest rate of any group over that span. During the same stretch, six of the nine AP Defensive Rookies of the Year have been linebackers who were selected in the first round."

"Since the 2002 draft, the first with the NFL's current 32-team setup, the lowest risks in the first round have been defensive backs, linebackers and tight ends. Stars at each position -- Troy Polamalu, Clay Matthews and Dallas Clark among them -- have helped their teams to a Super Bowl title since entering the league."

"Defensive backs as a group have also combined to make the second-highest percentage of Pro Bowls and All-Pro Team selections over the past nine seasons. Combine that success with a Super Bowl value in line with the NFL average, and the position rates very high with the second-best achievement value among all first-round picks since 2002, finishing just behind linebackers."


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/news/story?id=6389648

McDman
04-23-2011, 10:31 AM
I wouldn't mind dropping back and getting Miller but taking a SAM at number 2 is difficult for me to understand.

TheReverend
04-23-2011, 10:34 AM
Fully agree with the article and think Miller is pretty special of an athlete.

...my concern with him is having the creativity to utilize his best skill set. To me, it'd be like drafting Peterson and telling him "Okay, we're only going to drop you into coverage 5-10 times a game"

TheReverend
04-23-2011, 10:35 AM
Btw, props for posting a fair article despite your pov, llama

tsiguy96
04-23-2011, 10:36 AM
I wouldn't mind dropping back and getting Miller but taking a SAM at number 2 is difficult for me to understand.

there is no dropping back to get miller...get him at 2 or dont get him, basically.

hes a guy that can do damn near anything, rush the passer, cover RB and TE, maybe move to DE on passing downs, have ayers kick in and woodyard move to LB. he creates a lot of schematic diversity the team can use.

epicSocialism4tw
04-23-2011, 10:55 AM
there is no dropping back to get miller...get him at 2 or dont get him, basically.

hes a guy that can do damn near anything, rush the passer, cover RB and TE, maybe move to DE on passing downs, have ayers kick in and woodyard move to LB. he creates a lot of schematic diversity the team can use.

After reading that article (and you hope that the BBT has this kind of information available to them), its going to be pretty hard to justify not taking Miller.

You take Miller at #2, and then you follow that up with a DT at 2a. That's an instant boost to the front 7.

Then you go out and get a free agent DT or two as well.

tsiguy96
04-23-2011, 11:00 AM
After reading that article (and you hope that the BBT has this kind of information available to them), its going to be pretty hard to justify not taking Miller.

You take Miller at #2, and then you follow that up with a DT at 2a. That's an instant boost to the front 7.

Then you go out and get a free agent DT or two as well.

rob rang from CBS:
Miller will win the Defensive Rookie of the Year award.

Texas A&M pass rusher Von Miller will prove to be the highest-impact rookie. Whether he's drafted by the Buffalo Bills at No. 3, the Arizona Cardinals at No. 5 or the San Francisco 49ers at No. 7, his ability to explode off the edge and chase down quarterbacks from behind will result in double-digit sacks as a rookie and ultimately the NFL's Defensive Rookie of the Year trophy.



an ultimate athlete who can cover RBs and TEs as well as rush passer on 3rd down is huge. im making the argument to trade back into late 1st IF there is a good DT there. id rather go for 2 impact guys, like mcdaniels attempted last year with thomas and tebow.

epicSocialism4tw
04-23-2011, 11:10 AM
rob rang from CBS:


an ultimate athlete who can cover RBs and TEs as well as rush passer on 3rd down is huge. im making the argument to trade back into late 1st IF there is a good DT there. id rather go for 2 impact guys, like mcdaniels attempted last year with thomas and tebow.

I think thats a nice idea if there's a guy there who they think is worth that move.

epicSocialism4tw
04-23-2011, 11:12 AM
Btw, props for posting a fair article despite your pov, llama

I just want the Broncos to succeed, I'm not married to any of these guys. Although Miller seems like the right guy at the right time.

The only thing thats certain is that they need to shore up the front 7, especially DT. How they go about it is immaterial to me as long as it gets done.

Hulamau
04-23-2011, 11:15 AM
After reading that article (and you hope that the BBT has this kind of information available to them), its going to be pretty hard to justify not taking Miller.

You take Miller at #2, and then you follow that up with a DT at 2a. That's an instant boost to the front 7.

Then you go out and get a free agent DT or two as well.

Sounds good to me!

Miller or Peterson first .. then DTs in the second round .. simply based on the BPA concept which is hard to argue with drafting so high as #2!

Hulamau
04-23-2011, 11:15 AM
I just want the Broncos to succeed, I'm not married to any of these guys. Although Miller seems like the right guy at the right time.

The only thing thats certain is that they need to shore up the front 7, especially DT. How they go about it is immaterial to me as long as it gets done.

Touche!

SonOfLe-loLang
04-23-2011, 11:32 AM
I wouldn't mind dropping back and getting Miller but taking a SAM at number 2 is difficult for me to understand.

For the millionth time:

if the Broncos draft Miller, HE WILL NOT BE A TRADITIONAL SAM. I assume they will use him as a joker type, will be rushing the passer from a variety of zone blitzes and will probably play with his hand down on third down passing downs. He's a great pass rusher that can play from sideline to sideline and probably wont be a liability in pass coverage. His upside is Merriman pre-drugs/injury with perhaps even more skills

rugbythug
04-23-2011, 11:34 AM
What EFX Must Assume for Patrick Peterson to be the Pick.

1) We will not be good next year. Patrick Peterson is a pick for a 10-12 year player. He is someone who's true value will only be realized after Champ Bailey leaves. Taking a player who takes away the 2nd best WR of an Offense is not worth the 2nd pick in the Draft. That is a low 2nd High 3rd value. Yes he can do more, but he will not be doing that in Denver till Bailey leaves.

2) The CBA will slot money and this pick will be significantly cheaper. Or their will be no Salary Cap. Otherwise we will have totally invested heavily in one area of the team to the detriments of other areas.

3) He is the Lowest Risk pick. I threw this in because otherwise they would not be picking him.

rugbythug
04-23-2011, 11:41 AM
What EFX must Assume for Vonn Miller to be the Pick.

1) He can cover TE, and RB. SAM be Damned. This was our Achilles heal last year. Yes we gave up yards on the ground. But the killer plays we gave up were in the short pass game. Shore that up and suddenly our D on a whole gets much better.

2) They will build a D around him. Unlike both Darius and PP Vonn is not a "Plug and Play" player. This is both good and bad. If you want to just vanilla everything and expect guy a to beat guy b ala 01 Bucs he is a poor fit. He can be schemed away by an offense. However if you decide to center piece him he can be amazing. Think DPOTY potential. This requires us fitting him not him fitting us. The broncos need to decide. Are we that flexible only EFX knows.

3) He is the Highest Ceiling player. Its an all in move, you have to believe he is aces.

rugbythug
04-23-2011, 11:48 AM
What EFX must assume for Darius to be the pick.

1) He is motivated. This is truley the biggest problem for DL fatties. Whether they are good or not comes down to wanting it more than the next guy more than any thing else. Will he play hard when he is rich?

2) Can we Risk? This is the easy pick the one no one will question and they will be given a pass on for years to come. If he goes bad no one will blame the front office.

3) Best pick at Biggest Need. EFX is essentially saying who knows what this team is going to do. But we do know nobody is playing on the D line so here you go. Really This pick is kind of unimaginative. Sometimes that's good.

Vegas_Bronco
04-23-2011, 11:49 AM
We have serviceable LB's for sure...but are they getting to the ball carrier? WHY NOT? Ask yourself one big question? What is happening to the line of scrimmage when the ball is snapped? Does it got back 2-3 yards consistently?

Fox doesn't need an all star LB, he wants a decent dline, good SAM and excellent corners. Without any trade scenarios unfolding due to the lockout...trust me, Dline is going to be our #1 at #2.

teknic
04-23-2011, 01:36 PM
Sounds good to me!

Miller or Peterson first .. then DTs in the second round .. simply based on the BPA concept which is hard to argue with drafting so high as #2!

This is exactly how I feel.

For all of the people that argue a SLB or CB2 isn't worth the second overall pick, keep in mind that we don't know exactly how the defensive scheme will look next year anyways. If they draft Miller, I am certain that Fox will find a way to utilize his pass rushing abilities; he will not be a traditional Sam. If the Broncos draft Peterson, it allows them to send extra pass rushers, and also to help transition Bailey to safety. Moving Bailey and Peterson all over the field will allow them to make plays on the ball, and I see Bailey being used much like Darren Sharper was as a safety for the Saints.

Hulamau
04-23-2011, 05:30 PM
What EFX Must Assume for Patrick Peterson to be the Pick.

1) We will not be good next year. Patrick Peterson is a pick for a 10-12 year player. He is someone who's true value will only be realized after Champ Bailey leaves. Taking a player who takes away the 2nd best WR of an Offense is not worth the 2nd pick in the Draft. That is a low 2nd High 3rd value. Yes he can do more, but he will not be doing that in Denver till Bailey leaves.

2) The CBA will slot money and this pick will be significantly cheaper. Or their will be no Salary Cap. Otherwise we will have totally invested heavily in one area of the team to the detriments of other areas.

3) He is the Lowest Risk pick. I threw this in because otherwise they would not be picking him.

Interesting points Rugby with some merit.

However the view that PP inst worth shutting down just the 2nd best WR on the opposing team overlooks that their #1 will already be covered like white on rice!!

I'll roll with Goodman on the opposing #3 WR most any day and we suddenly have made a very long day for opposing QBs ... assuming at least a respectable improvement in pressure versus last year, which will not be hard to achieve with DOOM back at full speed and Ayers back in his natural position with the added years of experience. Ayers need three as Mayock got right.

We've got a defensive minded coach now and there is NO WAY John Fox is not going to address the DT spot with a couple solid even if not yet elite DTs.
With Vickerson in the rotation too I'm looking for a 50% jump at minimum in pressure and run support.

Add a true shut down corner group the the beefed up Dline and we're good to go and a lot more competitive on D this year. Will likely have to wait until next year to round out the safety and LB positions to bring them up to where we need the to be.

FireFly
04-24-2011, 01:41 AM
2) Can we Risk? This is the easy pick the one no one will question and they will be given a pass on for years to come. If he goes bad no one will blame the front office.



I honestly think dareus is more of a risk than either pp or miller!

KevinJames
04-24-2011, 02:29 AM
Peterson or Miller at 2

We can't lose with either, and if its Dareus thats fine too but I am pretty sure Carolina will take him.

I would take Peterson over Miller because Miller is a pass rusher and if hes a 4-3 LB he won't be doing much of that unless we plan on blitzing him every down, and of course switching him to DE on third downs and sliding Ayers inside will happen too im sure, but I just think a 3-4 team could utilize his skill set better.

What EFX Must Assume for Patrick Peterson to be the Pick.

1) We will not be good next year. Patrick Peterson is a pick for a 10-12 year player. He is someone who's true value will only be realized after Champ Bailey leaves. Taking a player who takes away the 2nd best WR of an Offense is not worth the 2nd pick in the Draft. That is a low 2nd High 3rd value. Yes he can do more, but he will not be doing that in Denver till Bailey leaves.

2) The CBA will slot money and this pick will be significantly cheaper. Or their will be no Salary Cap. Otherwise we will have totally invested heavily in one area of the team to the detriments of other areas.

3) He is the Lowest Risk pick. I threw this in because otherwise they would not be picking him.

The draft is deep at DL

DB not so much were gonna suck regardless who we pick until we know that we have a QB that can win us games consistently so we gotta draft for the future Champ isn't gonna be here forever hes getting old Peterson will be a great investment considering we don't know if we will ever get a chance to pick another elite talent like Peterson at the CB position thats not saying we wont be picking in top 10 again (i hope not) what its saying is guys like Peterson are not in every draft. Peterson would be rated #1 if he were in previous years drafts a bunch of times, not many CBs would be rated over him.

HAT
04-24-2011, 04:24 AM
This thread restores my faith in humanity. :approve:

elsid13
04-24-2011, 05:55 AM
I wouldn't mind dropping back and getting Miller but taking a SAM at number 2 is difficult for me to understand.

I am not convinced if Denver selects Miller that he is playing the SAM. I bet that the move DJ over to the middle and make Miller the Weak Side LB.

elsid13
04-24-2011, 05:59 AM
This thread restores my faith in humanity. :approve:

We will fix that, give us 10 more posts and a bottle of Bean

epicSocialism4tw
04-24-2011, 11:21 AM
I would take Peterson over Miller because Miller is a pass rusher and if hes a 4-3 LB he won't be doing much of that unless we plan on blitzing him every down, and of course switching him to DE on third downs and sliding Ayers inside will happen too im sure, but I just think a 3-4 team could utilize his skill set better.

Miller is an every-down player in whatever defense the guy plays in. He's a flat out stud.


The draft is deep at DL
Its deep in DL through the first round, especially 10-25ish. After that its not so deep.


DB not so much were gonna suck regardless who we pick until we know that we have a QB that can win us games consistently so we gotta draft for the future Champ isn't gonna be here forever hes getting old Peterson will be a great investment considering we don't know if we will ever get a chance to pick another elite talent like Peterson at the CB position thats not saying we wont be picking in top 10 again (i hope not) what its saying is guys like Peterson are not in every draft. Peterson would be rated #1 if he were in previous years drafts a bunch of times, not many CBs would be rated over him.

Denver has a capable set of players at DB, much more capable than what they have on the front 7, and its not even close. Watch how great that secondary becomes when Denver's front 7 isnt the worst in the league.

It just doesnt make sense to argue in any way that Denver needs a DB more than they need front 7 players. You can argue that Denver should pick BPA, and kick the can on down the road for the front 7, but you cant say that Denver needs DB's more than they need front 7. Thats just not true in any stretch of the imagination.

HAT
04-24-2011, 11:46 AM
It just doesnt make sense to argue in any way that Denver needs a DB more than they need front 7 players. You can argue that Denver should pick BPA, and kick the can on down the road for the front 7, but you cant say that Denver needs DB's more than they need front 7. Thats just not true in any stretch of the imagination.

If you include the safeties....The secondary as a whole is every bit as hurting as front 7.

The bottom line is that every level of the D has one, and one only, pro bowl type player.

Doom, DJ, Champ. After that there are question marks everywhere.

tsiguy96
04-24-2011, 11:47 AM
Miller is an every-down player in whatever defense the guy plays in. He's a flat out stud.



Its deep in DL through the first round, especially 10-25ish. After that its not so deep.




Denver has a capable set of players at DB, much more capable than what they have on the front 7, and its not even close. Watch how great that secondary becomes when Denver's front 7 isnt the worst in the league.

It just doesnt make sense to argue in any way that Denver needs a DB more than they need front 7 players. You can argue that Denver should pick BPA, and kick the can on down the road for the front 7, but you cant say that Denver needs DB's more than they need front 7. Thats just not true in any stretch of the imagination.

you could also make hte case, like many have, that miller is in fact the BPA in this draft. not just in terms of game changing potential (which a guy as versatile as him will have a bigger effect on a game than another shut down CB), but in terms of being truly the best player in this draft.

hard to be upset at either pick, but having a guy who can stop the run, cover RBs and TEs AND rush the passer on 3rd down is hard to argue against.

epicSocialism4tw
04-24-2011, 12:00 PM
If you include the safeties....The secondary as a whole is every bit as hurting as front 7.

The bottom line is that every level of the D has one, and one only, pro bowl type player.

Doom, DJ, Champ. After that there are question marks everywhere.

Denver has the absolute worst front 7 in the entire league. That's not hyperbole. Denver gave up more yards on the ground last year than they ever have. They set a franchise record in futility. The problem is so bad on the front 7 that it has become a black mark on the history of the franchise!

People forget that Goodman can play a little too, and that we have McBath to take snaps from Dawkins. The secondary has enough talent to hold their own if they have a DL that can actually impact the game in a positive way instead of the opposite.

epicSocialism4tw
04-24-2011, 12:02 PM
you could also make hte case, like many have, that miller is in fact the BPA in this draft. not just in terms of game changing potential (which a guy as versatile as him will have a bigger effect on a game than another shut down CB), but in terms of being truly the best player in this draft.

hard to be upset at either pick, but having a guy who can stop the run, cover RBs and TEs AND rush the passer on 3rd down is hard to argue against.

I think that Miller is the BPA as well. A linebacker like this guy is rare, and a rare linebacker is more important than a rare defensive back.