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Bronco Rob
04-22-2011, 06:21 AM
Elway, Broncos have QB quandary


Even John Elway probably knew that John Elway was going to be a very good NFL quarterback. So much so he forced a trade from the then-Baltimore Colts to the Denver Broncos and the rest was a Hall of Fame career to remember.

Elway, though, doesn’t have the same convictions about Tim Tebow, the Broncos’ first-round quarterback of a year ago — ironically acquired in a trade for Baltimore’s draft pick — and it’s a serious issue in Denver right now because the lockout has prevented new head coach John Fox and offensive coordinator Mike McCoy from working daily with the Heisman Trophy winner from Florida. Remember, Tebow was more of a slasher and a spread offense player than a prototypical version of an NFL quarterback.

Now, Tebow is Fox’s kind of quarterback. He loves leadership and all the high-character intangibles that Tebow possesses. Remember, Fox had a long love affair with Jake Delhomme in Carolina because of Jake’s similar traits. Delhomme was never a pretty quarterback like Manning or Brady, but he was a winner and more than merely a serviceable quarterback. Plus, everyone on the Panthers believed in him.

Tebow has identical characteristics and beliefs. He has never shied from wanting to be the starter or believing he should start ahead of Kyle Orton, last year’s starter until a rib injury opened the door for Tebow.

And there are a lot of NFL pro scouts who will tell you Orton is just another Jake Delhomme. There is no question Orton is tough and also a very capable leader.

The quarterback thinking is so convoluted in the Denver that Elway, who now holds the title of executive vice president of football operations for the Broncos, has even remarked the previous regime — Josh McDaniels’ ill-fated attempt at trying to be as draft slick as his former boss Bill Belichick — might have made a blunder in trading away Jay Cutler. I think Elway believes Cutler possesses more of the physical qualities (big arm and size) he wants in a starting quarterback despite all the negative rips on his character.

The Broncos have the draft pick right behind the No. 1 Carolina Panthers. With the worst defense in the NFL last season and with Fox, a defensive-minded coach at the helm, everyone figures Denver will be taking the best defensive player in the draft with the second choice. It makes total sense, especially with the current restrictions on trading either Tebow or Orton away. Earlier this year, there were rumors Elway might do exactly that.

It’s pretty simple logic. If you’re running the show and you’re a Hall of Fame quarterback, shouldn’t you want to pick Denver’s next great quarterback? It makes a lot more sense when you know Elway isn’t totally sold on either one right now.

To fuel that story line, the Broncos’ top personnel people — Elway, Fox and general manager Brian Xanders — were in attendance for the Pro Days for Cam Newton and Blaine Gabbert, the two quarterbacks ranked at the top of the April 28 draft. McCoy went to watch Arkansas quarterback Ryan Mallett, who has all the physical tools to be an NFL star. There are also plans for quarterbacks coach Adam Gase to visit quarterbacks Christian Ponder, Jake Locker and Colin Kaepernick.

Maybe the Broncos are thinking of using their fourth pick in the second round on a quarterback. Yes, it makes total sense for the Broncos, or any team high in the pecking order, to do their due diligence in scouting the draft’s best talent.

“We’re always looking for that guy,” Elway said recently. “We may already have the guy who can pull the trigger and win us a championship someday. We may have him. We don’t know. We believe in Tim, but he’s not there yet. We have to look at everything when you have the second pick in the draft.”

Elway is intrigued with the physical size and speed of young quarterbacks like Newton and Gabbert. But the bottom line is he doesn’t see himself in either one of those kids. It’s a difficult process for Elway because he knows the game has changed a great deal from when he played while also knowing a player needs mobility to play the position today in the NFL.

The young Elway could run with the best of them, and he was elusive in the pocket. Howie Long probably still has nightmares of trying to sack the guy.

“I look at guys like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady and all the success that they have had,” he said. “But I think it’s getting harder and harder to play that position and not have mobility.”

The mobility issue swings the Denver debate back to Tebow, who runs like a fullback while definitely possessing the quickness to escape the pocket.

The key for Tebow is to simplify his throwing mechanics and get his mind to quit thinking run over throwing down the field. Despite all the hype, Tebow remains a raw talent. The lockout has already cost the Broncos and Elway two months of working and talking football with the kid, and it sounds totally implausible the organization would give up on him this quickly.

What makes Denver’s situation worse is this year’s quarterback class has plenty of depth, meaning teams that need a quarterback or a quarterback project can pick one next week. If the Broncos consider doing exactly that, there will be few takers for either Orton or Tebow whenever trading resumes in the NFL. And the exchange values for either one of them will be embarrassingly low.



http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/john-elway-denver-broncos-tim-tebow-have-qb-quandary-042111

misturanderson
04-22-2011, 06:31 AM
It really doesn't seem like much of a quandary this year. Orton can't stay healthy enough to be the answer, and his deficiencies are most pronounced in the most important parts of games.

Tebow played extremely well for a developmental Rookie in his first 3 NFL starts and he has nowhere to go but up in terms of his passing game. His running game is already top 3 for NFL QBs. You also need to find out if he can make enough progress to be worth where he was selected, not only to hopefully make his pick worthwhile, but to see if he is a viable golden egg in terms of the national recognition and jersey sales that he brings with him.

To top it all off, this year's QB class is epic crap. Cam Newton has got to be the riskiest pick in years and Gabbert was essentially unrecognizable before about 2 months after the season was over. AND next years QB class may be the best in years with potentially 2 legitimate #1-overall-type QBs coming out.

Seems like a pretty simple decision to me. It's not like anyone is getting fired this year for focusing the draft away from a position that directly competes with the best-selling jersey on the team when the worst thing that could happen is they get their pick of 2 vastly superior QB prospects next year.

jhns
04-22-2011, 06:43 AM
I'm not sold on the current QBs either. I still would like to see what Tebow has. I really don't want to see Orton again but I think he is going to be the starter if they don't sign a new deal soon. I think the worst thing to do is draft another QB. This is mostpy because I don't know of a good QB in this draft.

TailgateNut
04-22-2011, 06:49 AM
Aside from cue the drool brigade, I have no further comments.

Pretty damn good take!

Drek
04-22-2011, 07:17 AM
Ponder in the late 2nd or early 3rd is the only QB I'd be interested in from this draft.

The best option for us as a franchise is to get a difference maker for the defense in round 1, spend the rest of the draft around improving all three tiers of our D along with grabbing another RB to compliment Moreno, and then give the reigns to Tebow.

Orton is what I've said he is for quite some time. A solid 10-15 QB. That isn't going to win us anything while we're overhauling the entire defense and trying to fix the running game. Put Tebow in there and see if he's got what it takes. If he doesn't we'll be in ideal Andrew Luck draft position. If he does then problem solved.

As soon as a new CBA is in place trade Orton to one of the teams who misses out on a QB in the draft for a 2012 pick. Quinn and a mid to late round rookie back Tebow up. See where the chips fall and be ready to use the 2012 draft to address QB if Tebow doesn't show he's got it by the end of the 2011 season.

Smiling Assassin27
04-22-2011, 07:25 AM
Dear John:

You build it with defense. If a guy like Locker or Dalton is around in early 3rd, maybe you consider it. There are no qb's that will remind anyone of you, so go get Peterson or Dareus. I hear John Dutton's just a phone call away.

Sincerely,

The Football Gods

cmhargrove
04-22-2011, 07:27 AM
Ponder in the late 2nd or early 3rd is the only QB I'd be interested in from this draft.

The best option for us as a franchise is to get a difference maker for the defense in round 1, spend the rest of the draft around improving all three tiers of our D along with grabbing another RB to compliment Moreno, and then give the reigns to Tebow.

Orton is what I've said he is for quite some time. A solid 10-15 QB. That isn't going to win us anything while we're overhauling the entire defense and trying to fix the running game. Put Tebow in there and see if he's got what it takes. If he doesn't we'll be in ideal Andrew Luck draft position. If he does then problem solved.

As soon as a new CBA is in place trade Orton to one of the teams who misses out on a QB in the draft for a 2012 pick. Quinn and a mid to late round rookie back Tebow up. See where the chips fall and be ready to use the 2012 draft to address QB if Tebow doesn't show he's got it by the end of the 2011 season.

This.

Build a strong team around Tebow, starting with the D. He certainly looks like he can be as good as Jake Plummer, and that era was one crappy game away from the Superbowl. Build the defense, give Tebow his shot, then if he isn't "the guy" we can replace him next year.

TailgateNut
04-22-2011, 07:30 AM
This.

Build a strong team around Tebow, starting with the D. He certainly looks like he can be as good as Jake Plummer, and that era was one crappy game away from the Superbowl. Build the defense, give Tebow his shot, then if he isn't "the guy" we can replace him next year.

I thought everyone hated Jake the snake. Now the likes of Jake will do because Tebow might not flip off the fans?:rofl:

Shoemaker
04-22-2011, 07:35 AM
I'm one of the biggest Kyle Orton fans on this board, and I'm still of the opinion that we need to start Tebow in all 16 games this year.

The way I see it, we're not going to be Superbowl contenders this year regardless, so I don't see much point to sending Orton out there even if the coaches feel he gives us "the best chance to win." Not to mention the uproar it would cause among the fanbase.

Let Tebow start the entire year. If he plays well enough that we fall outside of the Top 5 picks in 2012, then he's probably shown enough to continue starting for that year.

If he falls on his face and busts, then we'll likely end up with a Top 5 pick again next year, which would mean he hasn't shown enough and we'd be in a prime position to draft Luck.

Either way, Tebow decides for himself if he's the future for the Broncos at the QB position or not in 2011 by starting. We certainly won't find out a definite answer either way by making Orton the starter next year.

cmhargrove
04-22-2011, 07:42 AM
I thought everyone hated Jake the snake. Now the likes of Jake will do because Tebow might not flip off the fans?:rofl:

I loved Jake, and I thought he was a great Bronco. I really liked the team with his chemistry because we were as much about the run as we were about passing.

In my book, Jake's only downfall was that he was a horrible passer on third downs, and made really bonehead plays when pressure was in his face. In a way, he was kind of an anti-Orton. On third and long with pressure in his face, Orton sacks himself and curls up in the fetal position. Plummer, on the other hand, just chucks the ball up to the wind, flips it the bird, and hopes Rod Smith is somewhere in the area (which he often wasn't).

I loved Jake, and in the end, he did get screwed out of the job. Cutler deserved the shot, but we went backwards as soon as we started Cutler. I loved the good Jay, but them is the facts baby! Plummer won more games.

bowtown
04-22-2011, 07:46 AM
That was a really poorly written article.

Rigs11
04-22-2011, 08:36 AM
If tebow sucks it up after 6 games do we throw in Orton?

frerottenextelway
04-22-2011, 09:10 AM
If tebow sucks it up after 6 games do we throw in Orton?

No.

MacGruder
04-22-2011, 09:16 AM
What if the Broncos play Tebow and Fox sucks, dragging Tebow down with him causing him to be underrated, traded and the Broncos pay for it the rest of Tebow's career?

Just something to think about...

Rigs11
04-22-2011, 09:17 AM
No.

Why for not?

HAT
04-22-2011, 09:18 AM
Broncos have a QB surplus.

razorwire77
04-22-2011, 09:22 AM
Stupid article. This team has huge deficiencies at DT, MLB, Sam LB, both safety positions and TE. We need a RT, RB and CB depth. We have much bigger issues than QB (even if Tebow doesn't pan out). Based on the small sample of last season, Tebow has shown the ability to make plays with both his arm and his legs. Does he still have some throwing motion issues and footwork concerns? Sure, but he deserves the right to win the starting position in 2012. Worst case if he sucks in 2012, we keep Orton on the roster who is at the very least a serviceable NFL player.

frerottenextelway
04-22-2011, 09:26 AM
Why for not?

Just look at Elways early career. Either give the kid a good faith chance to succeed, or don't give a chance at all. No half-assing it where failure for everyone is all but guaranteed.

TailgateNut
04-22-2011, 09:30 AM
I loved Jake, and I thought he was a great Bronco. I really liked the team with his chemistry because we were as much about the run as we were about passing.

In my book, Jake's only downfall was that he was a horrible passer on third downs, and made really bonehead plays when pressure was in his face. In a way, he was kind of an anti-Orton. On third and long with pressure in his face, Orton sacks himself and curls up in the fetal position. Plummer, on the other hand, just chucks the ball up to the wind, flips it the bird, and hopes Rod Smith is somewhere in the area (which he often wasn't).

I loved Jake, and in the end, he did get screwed out of the job. Cutler deserved the shot, but we went backwards as soon as we started Cutler. I loved the good Jay, but them is the facts baby! Plummer won more games.

If Tebow can refine his passing accuracy, make the proper reads, not run once he sees his 1st option covered, nor throw interceptions like ****ler did when the going got tough, then he may desrve some recognition and possibly the starting job.
I still think Orton starts until the young one learns the ropes a bit more.

TDmvp
04-22-2011, 09:31 AM
I loved Jake, and I thought he was a great Bronco. I really liked the team with his chemistry because we were as much about the run as we were about passing.

In my book, Jake's only downfall was that he was a horrible passer on third down.

:thumbs:

Dead on my feelings of Jake...

Hercules Rockefeller
04-22-2011, 09:34 AM
Why for not?

He gets a full season that doesn't involved him being jerked around in and out of the lineup.

This isn't a playoff team and no one they draft next week is going to make them a playoff team over night.

I'll echo Drek's sentiment, Tebow can prove he can be the guy next year, or there is a good chance they are in position to draft Luck or Barkley next April.

razorwire77
04-22-2011, 09:42 AM
He gets a full season that doesn't involved him being jerked around in and out of the lineup.

This isn't a playoff team and no one they draft next week is going to make them a playoff team over night.

I'll echo Drek's sentiment, Tebow can prove he can be the guy next year, or there is a good chance they are in position to draft Luck or Barkley next April.

Exactly. This is nowhere near a playoff team, regardless of who we take next week. Best case scenario, we are looking at two full drafts and two free agent signing periods to build things up. Draft front 7 players, RT, and maybe a TE or RB. Give Tebow every opportunity this year to win the starting job. Once he does, don't jerk him and give him a legitimate chance to lead this team. Worst case, he doesn't pan out, we are a 4 or 5 win team next year, and we draft a QB at the end of 2012.

Quoydogs
04-22-2011, 09:46 AM
If tebow sucks it up after 6 games do we throw in Orton?

See this is the response I don't get. We threw Timmy in with the wolves last year. The team had had cashed it in, the coaches were hand me downs from a coaching staff that did not work. He went in managed to elevate the players while they had him hand cuffed.

I mean have we all forgotten 1st down run center, second down run right, third qb option ? Some of the worst coaching I have ever watched a a pro level. Anyway he manged to win games. He was a leader which was to really nice to see on the field again.

Also did he not come back from a 0-17 game to win it 24-23. I think that is right.

I think Timmy gave more then enough to earn the starting sport next year. I just don't understand all the what if stuff. He went in, he won games, give the man his dues.

HAT
04-22-2011, 09:52 AM
Exactly. This is nowhere near a playoff team,

Strongly disagree.

HAT
04-22-2011, 09:57 AM
See this is the response I don't get. We threw Timmy in with the wolves last year. The team had had cashed it in, the coaches were hand me downs from a coaching staff that did not work. He went in managed to elevate the players while they had him hand cuffed.

I mean have we all forgotten 1st down run center, second down run right, third qb option ? Some of the worst coaching I have ever watched a a pro level. Anyway he manged to win games. He was a leader which was to really nice to see on the field again.

Also did he not come back from a 0-17 game to win it 24-23. I think that is right.

I think Timmy gave more then enough to earn the starting sport next year. I just don't understand all the what if stuff. He went in, he won games, give the man his dues.

While I agree with the general sentiment of your post....You're not exactly helping your cause by being factually inaccurate.

Quoydogs
04-22-2011, 10:03 AM
While I agree with the general sentiment of your post....You're not exactly helping your cause by being factually inaccurate.

Ok he won a game and if he had any kind of a d would have won 2 of 3.

NFLBRONCO
04-22-2011, 10:05 AM
Strongly disagree.

What makes you feel this way?

HAT
04-22-2011, 10:05 AM
Ok he won a game and if he had any kind of a d would have won 2 of 3.

Agreed....Just think how many more games Orton would've won in that same scenario. :thumbs:

HAT
04-22-2011, 10:10 AM
What makes you feel this way?

Denver's been an 8-8 type team for the better part of a decade and still are. Going 10-6 in one year or 4-12 in another doesn't change that.

Hercules Rockefeller
04-22-2011, 10:11 AM
Denver's been an 8-8 type team for the better part of a decade and still are. Going 10-6 in one year or 4-12 in another doesn't change that.

The Defense was 32nd in yardage and scoring, a single draft isn't going to give them a playoff caliber defense, even with Elvis coming back.

Quoydogs
04-22-2011, 10:14 AM
Agreed....Just think how many more games Orton would've won in that same scenario. :thumbs:

Orton's a great back up. He is a great person for when your starter goes down. I am a firm believer that a football needs a leader and he is joust not one. That is why you could see the team start to bounce back and play when tebow came in.

The are both good players Tebow is a leader and that is what is what struggling football teams need.

HAT
04-22-2011, 10:16 AM
The Defense was 32nd in yardage and scoring, a single draft isn't going to give them a playoff caliber defense, even with Elvis coming back.

The draft has nothing to do with my argument.....They could skip it altogether and I'd still strongly disagree that Denver is miles away from making the playoffs in 2011.

Quoydogs
04-22-2011, 10:16 AM
The Defense was 32nd in yardage and scoring, a single draft isn't going to give them a playoff caliber defense, even with Elvis coming back.

I'm worried that Elvis won't be a huge factor in a 4-3. However a couple good pick ups ( Dawkins Type ) Could really change things on our D.

NFLBRONCO
04-22-2011, 10:17 AM
Denver's been an 8-8 type team for the better part of a decade and still are. Going 10-6 in one year or 4-12 in another doesn't change that.

I look at this team and feel we need DE DT DT MLB OLB FS CB T RB TE QB

Alot of needs young QB I think we are a top 10 drafting team for a few seasons. I'm just not sure how long it will take to get us 8-8 or better now.

Broncoman13
04-22-2011, 10:27 AM
He gets a full season that doesn't involved him being jerked around in and out of the lineup.

This isn't a playoff team and no one they draft next week is going to make them a playoff team over night.

I'll echo Drek's sentiment, Tebow can prove he can be the guy next year, or there is a good chance they are in position to draft Luck or Barkley next April.

Sign me up for this!

Give me Dareus/Fairley this year along with Aaron Williams and Rudolph and lets see where we can go. 2011 is going to be a tough season regardless. A lot of mistakes to overcome from the past 5-7 years of drafting/trading.

Two year plan makes the most sense and nobody is going to fault Elway or Fox should the team struggle next year. Talent isn't oozing on this roster and they can gather free agents or work with the current players. They will get a pass. Plus, why in the world would you draft a QB this year knowing that you won't be able to work with him enough?

Beantown Bronco
04-22-2011, 10:29 AM
The Defense was 32nd in yardage and scoring, a single draft isn't going to give them a playoff caliber defense, even with Elvis coming back.

One draft and one free agency/trade cycle (total of 4-5 new starters, plus a returning Dumervil and healthy Ayers) could easily do it with the right coaching.

ghostofjosh
04-22-2011, 10:29 AM
this is all bull****,if denver is intrested in qbs and defensive players,that pick at #2 is that much more valuabe for a trade,Tebow is Elways kind of guy,and Elway is a car salesman,don't forget,seems like denver is trying to trade out of 2 with these stories coming out now about Tebow,etc

razorwire77
04-22-2011, 10:31 AM
Strongly disagree.

I hope you're right. I see a team that has multiple holes and depth issues.

DT- (it's been well documented that we have minimal talent and no depth) Even if we get Dareus at no. 2, we'll still have serious rotational issues.

DE- Doom is a great pure pass rusher, Ayers has the potential to be very good if he stays healthy.

Mike-The verdict isn't out with Joe Mays. Does he have the coverage skills to be even a two down thumper? We'll see. Philly didn't think so.

Sam- I have no confidence that anyone can be a starter. Situational guys maybe, but we need an impact player here.

Will-D.J. is decent. He's not a good instinctive LB, but athletically, he's a solid WLB. Pair him with a guy like Von Miller and improve our pathetic D-line and he's the least of our worries.

CB- Champ is Champ. Goodman is OK, but injury prone. Cox is decent (assuming he doesn't go to jail). Squid and Vaughn are OK in dime situations. I think we can get by with this group, assuming Cox isn't incarcerated

FS/SS- Dawkins is done. Renaldo Hill? McBath? We need to acquire starters and reserves at both safety positions.

On offense, we need a RT, we need a receiving TE, and we need RB depth. That's a lot of holes to fill with one draft and one FA signing period.

Beantown Bronco
04-22-2011, 10:38 AM
Nolan had a unit with comparable, if not worse overall talent, playing at an all time great NFL level for 6 weeks......and still top 12 by the end of the season.

TheReverend
04-22-2011, 10:42 AM
Agreed....Just think how many more games Orton would've won in that same scenario. :thumbs:

Judging from his performance vs AZ with the same coaching, probably 0.

TheReverend
04-22-2011, 10:47 AM
Sign me up for this!

Give me Dareus/Fairley this year along with Aaron Williams and Rudolph and lets see where we can go. 2011 is going to be a tough season regardless. A lot of mistakes to overcome from the past 5-7 years of drafting/trading.

Two year plan makes the most sense and nobody is going to fault Elway or Fox should the team struggle next year. Talent isn't oozing on this roster and they can gather free agents or work with the current players. They will get a pass. Plus, why in the world would you draft a QB this year knowing that you won't be able to work with him enough?

Gross

OABB
04-22-2011, 11:06 AM
If Tebow can refine his passing accuracy, make the proper reads, not run once he sees his 1st option covered, nor throw interceptions like ****ler did when the going got tough, then he may desrve some recognition and possibly the starting job.
I still think Orton starts until the young one learns the ropes a bit more.

Do you stay in the parking lot all game? you understand that Tebow was a rookie right?

Ray_Lewis'_Victim
04-22-2011, 11:06 AM
Elway, Broncos have QB quandary

Tebow has identical characteristics and beliefs. He has never shied from wanting to be the starter or believing he should start ahead of Kyle Orton, last year’s starter until a rib injury opened the door for Tebow.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/john-elway-denver-broncos-tim-tebow-have-qb-quandary-042111

I don't recall Tebow saying he should have been starting ahead of Neckbeard. The hell did that come from?

fdf
04-22-2011, 11:17 AM
In my book, Jake's only downfall was that he was a horrible passer on third downs, and made really bonehead plays when pressure was in his face. In a way, he was kind of an anti-Orton. On third and long with pressure in his face, Orton sacks himself and curls up in the fetal position. Plummer, on the other hand, just chucks the ball up to the wind, flips it the bird, and hopes Rod Smith is somewhere in the area (which he often wasn't).

I thought Jake was a good, not great, QB until the championship game. His greatest strength was throwing on the move. But in the championship game, the D there demonstrated how, if you contain the bootleg, Plummer cannot pass effectively from the pocket.

Other teams copied that model and Plummer tanked as a QB when passing on the move was taken away from him. That is probably why he seemed like a putz on third downs toward the end--those were the plays where post-championship game, Plummer used to roll out and pass on the move.

Tebow, OTOH, already looks to be a better pocket passer than Plummer ever was. He's far from a great. But he can be dangerous and doesn't do too many stupid things when he's under pressure. I think he was better than expected as a rookie in that regard. Plummer never scared anyone from the pocket.

broncosteven
04-22-2011, 11:21 AM
Ponder in the late 2nd or early 3rd is the only QB I'd be interested in from this draft.

The best option for us as a franchise is to get a difference maker for the defense in round 1, spend the rest of the draft around improving all three tiers of our D along with grabbing another RB to compliment Moreno, and then give the reigns to Tebow.

Orton is what I've said he is for quite some time. A solid 10-15 QB. That isn't going to win us anything while we're overhauling the entire defense and trying to fix the running game. Put Tebow in there and see if he's got what it takes. If he doesn't we'll be in ideal Andrew Luck draft position. If he does then problem solved.

As soon as a new CBA is in place trade Orton to one of the teams who misses out on a QB in the draft for a 2012 pick. Quinn and a mid to late round rookie back Tebow up. See where the chips fall and be ready to use the 2012 draft to address QB if Tebow doesn't show he's got it by the end of the 2011 season.

I completely agree on everything except I would like to see us move down to AZ's pick at 5 and take the best D player there in order to stockpile a couple more picks to build the team with or have as trade up bait for next year to use on a QB if Tebow is not the answer.

NFLBRONCO
04-22-2011, 11:59 AM
I just want FO to realize this team is a mess even if its a few years reloading. We did the decade plus long we aren't that fair away card and look how well that worked.

Rigs11
04-22-2011, 12:10 PM
He gets a full season that doesn't involved him being jerked around in and out of the lineup.

This isn't a playoff team and no one they draft next week is going to make them a playoff team over night.

I'll echo Drek's sentiment, Tebow can prove he can be the guy next year, or there is a good chance they are in position to draft Luck or Barkley next April.

so he gets a full season to prove himself?or longer?

razorwire77
04-22-2011, 12:19 PM
I think he gets a full season to continue to improve upon the potential that he did last year. Is he going to have a couple of 3 pick games next year? With our schedule, I guarantee it. What I'm looking for is the leadership quality, play making ability and continued improvement with mechanics and throwing motion. If he does that, I think he gets even more time to continue to develop. In the meantime, build the team defensively, and get Tebow a receiving TE, a RT to protect his blindside and a back to complement Moreno.

DomCasual
04-22-2011, 12:21 PM
He gets a full season that doesn't involved him being jerked around in and out of the lineup.

This isn't a playoff team and no one they draft next week is going to make them a playoff team over night.

I'll echo Drek's sentiment, Tebow can prove he can be the guy next year, or there is a good chance they are in position to draft Luck or Barkley next April.

This summarizes my feelings perfectly.

I am always more optimistic than I should be. But I can easily justify arguing a scenario where we win 8 or 9 games next year, which would put us on the edge of the playoffs (it would at least make the second half of the season more interesting than it was this year). Our offense can be decent - especially with getting more conservative. Our defense can't get worse, and should get a lot better. By a lot better, I'm talking in the top, say, half of the league. With our schedule, I don't see 9-7 as that much of a reach (although I could just as easily see 4-12 again).

I would love it if we're not even thinking about an Andrew Luck at this time next year. If Tebow could show just enough improvement to pacify Elway for another year, we could use another draft to fill other gaping holes.

peacepipe
04-22-2011, 12:23 PM
I thought Jake was a good, not great, QB until the championship game. His greatest strength was throwing on the move. But in the championship game, the D there demonstrated how, if you contain the bootleg, Plummer cannot pass effectively from the pocket.

Other teams copied that model and Plummer tanked as a QB when passing on the move was taken away from him. That is probably why he seemed like a putz on third downs toward the end--those were the plays where post-championship game, Plummer used to roll out and pass on the move.

Tebow, OTOH, already looks to be a better pocket passer than Plummer ever was. He's far from a great. But he can be dangerous and doesn't do too many stupid things when he's under pressure. I think he was better than expected as a rookie in that regard. Plummer never scared anyone from the pocket.

I have yet to see any evidence of that. his biggest weakness & something that ultamatley might affect his future is his inability to be a pocket passer. better than Plummer?

MacGruder
04-22-2011, 12:55 PM
I have yet to see any evidence of that. his biggest weakness & something that ultamatley might affect his future is his inability to be a pocket passer. better than Plummer?

You are just parroting what Elway said as if you know what he really meant.

With Tebow it's not a matter of "IF" he is successful but when.. and as McDaniels said it's likely to be much much faster than people ever imagined. And he was already proven right.

Rabb
04-22-2011, 12:57 PM
You are just parroting what Elway said as if you know what he really meant.

With Tebow it's not a matter of "IF" he is successful but when.. and as McDaniels said it's likely to be much much faster than people ever imagined. And he was already proven right.


peacepipe is an ultamate authority!!!!!

OrangeSe7en
04-22-2011, 01:09 PM
Ponder in the late 2nd or early 3rd is the only QB I'd be interested in from this draft.

The best option for us as a franchise is to get a difference maker for the defense in round 1, spend the rest of the draft around improving all three tiers of our D along with grabbing another RB to compliment Moreno, and then give the reigns to Tebow.

Orton is what I've said he is for quite some time. A solid 10-15 QB. That isn't going to win us anything while we're overhauling the entire defense and trying to fix the running game. Put Tebow in there and see if he's got what it takes. If he doesn't we'll be in ideal Andrew Luck draft position. If he does then problem solved.

As soon as a new CBA is in place trade Orton to one of the teams who misses out on a QB in the draft for a 2012 pick. Quinn and a mid to late round rookie back Tebow up. See where the chips fall and be ready to use the 2012 draft to address QB if Tebow doesn't show he's got it by the end of the 2011 season.

Bad idea.

peacepipe
04-22-2011, 01:13 PM
You are just parroting what Elway said as if you know what he really meant.

With Tebow it's not a matter of "IF" he is successful but when.. and as McDaniels said it's likely to be much much faster than people ever imagined. And he was already proven right.

I ain't parroting **** from elway. you're the idiot who thinks tebow,who at the 1st sign of trouble runs,is a better pocket passer than plummer. I've said from the time he declared,hell,even before that that tebow will be a bust because he can't throw from the pocket. I have argued that point since his days in college. urban meyers system is crap when it comes to developing QBs for the NFL.

Beantown Bronco
04-22-2011, 01:35 PM
Bad idea.

Drek highlighted like six or seven different ideas in that post. Which is the bad one?

Beantown Bronco
04-22-2011, 01:36 PM
I ain't parroting **** from elway. you're the idiot who thinks tebow,who at the 1st sign of trouble runs,is a better pocket passer than plummer. I've said from the time he declared,hell,even before that that tebow will be a bust because he can't throw from the pocket. I have argued that point since his days in college. urban meyers system is crap when it comes to developing QBs for the NFL.

What a shocker. "Peace" Pipe calling someone an idiot.

Rigs11
04-22-2011, 01:40 PM
tebow's passing is his biggest weakness, how anyone can say that he's better at this point in his career than Plummer is utter nonsense.

zdoor
04-22-2011, 01:44 PM
Thought this was cool (from PFT):

Tebow sees the silver lining in the lockout
Posted by Mike Florio on April 22, 2011, 2:32 PM EDT
Tim Tebow

Broncos quarterback Tim Tebow, in a lengthy radio interview with 790 the Zone in Atlanta, addressed the impact of the lockout on preparations for his second NFL season — and possibly his first as a full-time starter.

And Tebow finds something positive in an otherwise negative situation.

“Well I look at it two ways,” Tebow said, via SportsRadioInterviews.com. “I would love to be there going through OTAs with the coaches, with everyone; but also I look at in positive ways. I know there’s a lot of great players, but I also know there’s a lot of players out there that are loving this right now and they’re not going to work everyday extremely hungry, and they’re resting on their laurels a little bit and saying, ‘Hey, this is a vacation for me.’ I love that because everyday I’m looking to get better. So I believe that’s an opportunity for me to get an edge on a lot of players and I’m going to take that. Whether that’s true or not, that’s in my head and that’s all that matters.”

Still, Tebow would benefit from being able to apply that work ethic under the watchful eye of the coaching staff, especially since there’s a new head coach.

But we like his attitude. Whether he ever becomes a great NFL player remains to be seen, but if it never happens it won’t be due to a lack of effort or desire.

Hercules Rockefeller
04-22-2011, 01:47 PM
I ain't parroting **** from elway. you're the idiot who thinks tebow,who at the 1st sign of trouble runs,is a better pocket passer than plummer. I've said from the time he declared,hell,even before that that tebow will be a bust because he can't throw from the pocket. I have argued that point since his days in college. urban meyers system is crap when it comes to developing QBs for the NFL.

Anyone who thinks Tebow runs at the first sign of trouble didn't watch the 1st half of the Chargers game. TT could have rushed for 100 yds in that half if he'd tried to run when there was any pressure.

The space that was there in the 2nd half when he did start to run was there in the 1st half too.

MplsBronco
04-22-2011, 01:56 PM
Just look at Elways early career. Either give the kid a good faith chance to succeed, or don't give a chance at all. No half-assing it where failure for everyone is all but guaranteed.

Exactly, since when do first round draft choices get only 6 games. Hell, I would say you need to give Tebow at least 2 years.

Requiem
04-22-2011, 02:08 PM
Getting Ponder in the late second or early third is a pipe dream. Wouldn't be out of the cards for Denver to move up for him with #36.

MplsBronco
04-22-2011, 02:10 PM
I ain't parroting **** from elway. you're the idiot who thinks tebow,who at the 1st sign of trouble runs,is a better pocket passer than plummer. I've said from the time he declared,hell,even before that that tebow will be a bust because he can't throw from the pocket. I have argued that point since his days in college. urban meyers system is crap when it comes to developing QBs for the NFL.

This is total BS. I saw him make many plays outside the pocket by throwing the ball downfield. I also saw him convert 3rd and 10s by running when the play broke down. This is somehow a bad thing?

OrangeSe7en
04-22-2011, 02:25 PM
Drek highlighted like six or seven different ideas in that post. Which is the bad one?

Ponder. Im not saying he wont work out. But I think most people who say Ponder, like him because the risk of being wrong is low since he's likely to go in the 2nd. But its still an important pick and there are big questions on Ponder. People keep talking abotu various attributes but one of the most important is the ability to play at the speed of the NFL game. Accuracy doesnt matter unless its at NFL speed. Same with a lot of other characteristics. I think Ponder just represents an easy way out to avoid being terribly wrong since he's likely to be drafted in the 2nd.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-22-2011, 02:43 PM
The perception of Tebow makes zero sense to me.

Here's what I saw

@ Oak - While hogtied by conservative playcalling, he made every pro throw (outs, crossing routes) while posting a 100 rating. In his first quarter of play, he did something only 2 other QBS in the history of the game did (40 yard run for TD/30yard TD pass in the same game)

Houston - 16/29 305 yards...brought the broncos back from 17 down, including a game winning 4th quarter drive using both his arms and legs, mostly his arm. It included that sick off balance strike to lloyd that showed his arm strength. I've said it before, if Sam Bradford has this game in his second NFL start, he's crowned. for tim, it was a cute novelty.

San Diego - Against one of the top 5 defenses in the NFL, Tim threw for 205 yards and rushed for another 90 something. He brought the broncos back, a game they weren't in, within a hail mary of winning them game. Yes, he looked rattled and inaccurate at times, but when he got his mental game under control, he threw crisp accurate passes.

I'm not saying hes amazing now or will ever be amazing, but I have no clue how someone could look at those games and think hes in over his head. He deserves a chance to start. He's only going to improve once the mental part of the game (SOMETHING ALL ROOKIE QBS STRUGGLE WITH) becomes easier.

Also, for the record, the broncos achilles offensive heel for YEARS has been goal line offense. That disappeared overnight once they let tim run those plays.

And people want to draft Ponder....why?

Quoydogs
04-22-2011, 02:50 PM
The perception of Tebow makes zero sense to me.

Here's what I saw

@ Oak - While hogtied by conservative playcalling, he made every pro throw (outs, crossing routes) while posting a 100 rating. In his first quarter of play, he did something only 2 other QBS in the history of the game did (40 yard run for TD/30yard TD pass in the same game)

Houston - 16/29 305 yards...brought the broncos back from 17 down, including a game winning 4th quarter drive using both his arms and legs, mostly his arm. It included that sick off balance strike to lloyd that showed his arm strength. I've said it before, if Sam Bradford has this game in his second NFL start, he's crowned. for tim, it was a cute novelty.

San Diego - Against one of the top 5 defenses in the NFL, Tim threw for 205 yards and rushed for another 90 something. He brought the broncos back, a game they weren't in, within a hail mary of winning them game. Yes, he looked rattled and inaccurate at times, but when he got his mental game under control, he threw crisp accurate passes.

I'm not saying hes amazing now or will ever be amazing, but I have no clue how someone could look at those games and think hes in over his head. He deserves a chance to start. He's only going to improve once the mental part of the game (SOMETHING ALL ROOKIE QBS STRUGGLE WITH) becomes easier.

Also, for the record, the broncos achilles offensive heel for YEARS has been goal line offense. That disappeared overnight once they let tim run those plays.

And people want to draft Ponder....why?
This Other then I would say he proved he could do it. With hand me down coaches to boot. Some of the worst play calling I have ever seen.

epicSocialism4tw
04-22-2011, 03:06 PM
The perception of Tebow makes zero sense to me.

Here's what I saw

@ Oak - While hogtied by conservative playcalling, he made every pro throw (outs, crossing routes) while posting a 100 rating. In his first quarter of play, he did something only 2 other QBS in the history of the game did (40 yard run for TD/30yard TD pass in the same game)

Houston - 16/29 305 yards...brought the broncos back from 17 down, including a game winning 4th quarter drive using both his arms and legs, mostly his arm. It included that sick off balance strike to lloyd that showed his arm strength. I've said it before, if Sam Bradford has this game in his second NFL start, he's crowned. for tim, it was a cute novelty.

San Diego - Against one of the top 5 defenses in the NFL, Tim threw for 205 yards and rushed for another 90 something. He brought the broncos back, a game they weren't in, within a hail mary of winning them game. Yes, he looked rattled and inaccurate at times, but when he got his mental game under control, he threw crisp accurate passes.

I'm not saying hes amazing now or will ever be amazing, but I have no clue how someone could look at those games and think hes in over his head. He deserves a chance to start. He's only going to improve once the mental part of the game (SOMETHING ALL ROOKIE QBS STRUGGLE WITH) becomes easier.

Also, for the record, the broncos achilles offensive heel for YEARS has been goal line offense. That disappeared overnight once they let tim run those plays. And people want to draft Ponder....why?

Tim converted in the red zone like an All-Pro. People have flat abandoned the analysis that the Broncos dont convert in the red zone because Tebow was so effective at it.

Well, folks...if Tebow doesn't play, the red zone woes return.

yerner
04-22-2011, 03:41 PM
tebow's passing is his biggest weakness, how anyone can say that he's better at this point in his career than Plummer is utter nonsense.

Yep.

maher_tyler
04-22-2011, 03:57 PM
One draft and one free agency/trade cycle (total of 4-5 new starters, plus a returning Dumervil and healthy Ayers) could easily do it with the right coaching.

The 99' St. Louis Rams.

DomCasual
04-22-2011, 04:01 PM
Tim converted in the red zone like an All-Pro. People have flat abandoned the analysis that the Broncos dont convert in the red zone because Tebow was so effective at it.

Well, folks...if Tebow doesn't play, the red zone woes return.

Go ahead and fast forward to 4:24. Simply awesome.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/5t8QnCNPwfs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ray_Lewis'_Victim
04-22-2011, 04:24 PM
Go ahead and fast forward to 4:24. Simply awesome.


Still gives me goosebumps

zdoor
04-22-2011, 04:28 PM
He's got a ways to go but so do all rookies. I think he earned a chance at seeing what he can do. If Orton is still here and beats him out in camp, so be it. But, Tebow should get very opportunity. We've already spent the draft pick on him and should see what he's got. Worst case, as been said repeatedly, is we are in line for Luck next year.

Quoydogs
04-22-2011, 04:41 PM
Go ahead and fast forward to 4:24. Simply awesome.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/5t8QnCNPwfs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

L E A D E R

Drek
04-22-2011, 05:45 PM
Ponder. Im not saying he wont work out. But I think most people who say Ponder, like him because the risk of being wrong is low since he's likely to go in the 2nd. But its still an important pick and there are big questions on Ponder. People keep talking abotu various attributes but one of the most important is the ability to play at the speed of the NFL game. Accuracy doesnt matter unless its at NFL speed. Same with a lot of other characteristics. I think Ponder just represents an easy way out to avoid being terribly wrong since he's likely to be drafted in the 2nd.

I wasn't suggesting Ponder because he was he was a lower cost option, just that in the current QB draft class hierarchy he's the only one who I see real value intersecting with draft cost.

My personal take on the QBs in this class:
Blaine Gabbert - back end of the first 1st round QB prospect.
Jake Locker - early to mid second round QB prospect.
Cam Newton - late second to early 3rd round QB prospect.
Andy Dalton - early 3rd round QB prospect.
Colin Kaepernick - early 3rd to early 4th round QB prospect.
Christian Ponder - mid 2nd to early 3rd round QB prospect.

In short, its a bunch of ok guys. No one is actually a real 1st rounder except Gabbert, and he's a carbon copy of Alex Smith, who also shouldn't have been a top pick. But Gabbert and Newton will probably go top 10, Locker will make it in the top 20 or so, and at least one of Dalton, Kaepernick, or Ponder will round out the first depending on who falls in love with who. Kaepernick and Dalton wouldn't be horrible if we could get them in the 3rd, but both likely go too soon. Ponder might be there if we wind up with a mid to late 2nd after a trade back.

epicSocialism4tw
04-22-2011, 10:02 PM
Go ahead and fast forward to 4:24. Simply awesome.

That's what it looks like when a guy wants to take on himself the pressure of getting it done in the clutch.

Impressive for a rookie, no doubt.

maher_tyler
04-22-2011, 11:29 PM
Go ahead and fast forward to 4:24. Simply awesome.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/5t8QnCNPwfs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Loved the Purdue quote...:giggle:

ZONA
04-23-2011, 12:42 AM
You just can't over think this stuff. Worst NFL defense + lousy 2011 QB class should = the Broncos using their picks this year on defense. What's going to help the offense more then a young rookie QB that is not that highly rated? An improved defense that can get off the damn field and give the ball back to either Orton or Tebow.

errand
04-23-2011, 12:45 PM
I'm not sold on the current QBs either. I still would like to see what Tebow has. I really don't want to see Orton again but I think he is going to be the starter if they don't sign a new deal soon. I think the worst thing to do is draft another QB. This is mostpy because I don't know of a good QB in this draft.

I think we can win with either guy if we build a defense that can keep us from playing catch up all the ****ing time and our OL develops into a unit that plays solid in both run and pass blocking....Defense wins championships John, the next Elway probably hasn't even been born yet...i wouldn't go looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack.

Build a defense and our above average offense can win games ugly until you find the final missing pieces.