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View Full Version : Can we really be upset with whatever we get in the first round top 10 as long as its not a QB or DE?


KevinJames
04-22-2011, 03:10 AM
Think about it. This is kind of a long post but I don't mind reading everyone elses opinions on the draft so bare with me.


Marcel Dareus - Who everyone pegs us drafting, because the obvious hole at DT. Will be a nice piece on the defensive line, but I do think its a risky pick taking any DT at 2 in a deep DL draft. However Ayers Dareus FA/vickerson Doom would be a big upgrade on the front line compared to what we had.

Von Miller - I see people saying this could be our 2nd choice, which I don't agree with since he fits a 3-4 system better but I can see the upsides if we took him he will be a base 4-3 sam linebacker, we could keep DJ/draft/FA at middle and Woodyard/FA/DJ at will on early downs, on third/nickle/pass downs DJ and Woodyard stay in standing up and Von Miller switches to defensive end and Ayers slides inside to DT. If we grab a quality 2nd round DT like Marvin Austin we could be looking at a viscous pass rush Miller-Austin-Ayers-Doom on third down.

Patrick Peterson - My choice for our draft pick, DB depth is terrible in this draft and hes just a freak athlete and when you can grab a guy like that and ignore drafting for need you gotta do it, hes the Calvin Johnson of DBs hes the Adrian Peterson of DBs can't miss guy in my mind. You may say CB isn't our biggest need and its not our biggest need but we do have aging DBs all over our roster, especially at safety. Peterson already stated he wanted to be like Charles Woodson and play every DB position so lets use him like that. If Perrish Cox is as good as the hype suggests and his talent level suggests we probably release Goodman and we can use Peterson in the nickle role or just put him in for Dawkins at FS when its an obvious passing down, and than there is a chance Perrish Cox doesn't pan out gets jail time, gets suspended, or just has a bad camp. Champ and Peterson doesn't sound like a bad tandem with Goodman/Syd playing the nickle and Cox/Syd playing dime.

Nick Fairley - A very possible choice especially if we trade down, I feel like hes a better 3-tech than Dareus is just as big of a risk as Dareus maybe a little bit bigger but truthfully Elway and Xanders both said they don't wanna miss on a pick and taking a DT in the first with all the depth in this years draft thats taking a risk in my eyes. If we do take him I would hope we trade down to 7 or 8 or something like that. Ayers Fairley FA/vickerson Doom wouldn't be bad.

I think that is the most likely scenarios above. Corey Liuget trade down to 10-17 or JJ Watt if Corey is gone when we pick less likely but I wouldn't be mad at that. AJ Green at 7/8 if Julio is picked before him and we trade back, again not very likely wouldn't make me smile but I wouldn't be throwing things at the TV.

As long as its not QB/DE/OT from the top 10 I think we shouldn't have anything to wine about really, but if its Newton or Gabbert I better see pitchforks in front of dove valley. After listening to Elway and Xanders I think Peterson or Miller will be the pick at #2 or if we try to trade down than sprinkle Fairley into that mix.

broncogary
04-22-2011, 05:36 AM
[QUOTE=KevinJames;3161674]Think about it. This is kind of a long post but I don't mind reading everyone elses opinions on the draft so bare with me.

Yes, read naked that appears to be a very good analysis. :thumbs:

Beantown Bronco
04-22-2011, 06:12 AM
As long as its not QB/DE/OT from the top 10 I think we shouldn't have anything to wine about really

You're missing WR, kicker, punter, safety, running back, TE..........and of course, long snapper.

HAT
04-22-2011, 06:38 AM
Why in the world would anybody be upset with a DE in the first? The defense needs upgrades EVERYWHERE.

If they traded all the way back to Washington or Minny I'd have no problem with a Cam Jordan type selection.

DrFate
04-22-2011, 06:56 AM
Nothing would surprise me.

I think Peterson would be the smartest/safest pick.

I think Dareus is the most likely pick.

I think Fairely would be the biggest bust-chance pick.

I don't think Miller fits the 4/3 all that well

I wouldn't be stunned to see a QB taken

I wouldn't be stunned to see a trade down

So I'm ready for most anything!

Missouribronc
04-22-2011, 06:59 AM
Why in the world would anybody be upset with a DE in the first? The defense needs upgrades EVERYWHERE.

If they traded all the way back to Washington or Minny I'd have no problem with a Cam Jordan type selection.

I'd be upset if he sucked.

Drek
04-22-2011, 07:00 AM
Why in the world would anybody be upset with a DE in the first? The defense needs upgrades EVERYWHERE.

If they traded all the way back to Washington or Minny I'd have no problem with a Cam Jordan type selection.

Mostly from the viewpoint that Ayers was arguably one of our better defensive players last year and that he might actually be a much better fit as a 4-3 strong side DE than as a 3-4 strong side OLB.

He's a former first rounder who was starting when healthy as a second year guy, despite us moving him from DL to OLB.

Then opposite him is the team's best defensive player when healthy, who really only works in a 4-3 as a weak side DE.

It doesn't mean we should pass on an elite DE to leave a spot open for Ayers, but if we go into 2011 with Ayers as a starter its a whole lot better option than drafting a DE to replace him and going into 2011 with some random scrub starting at DT.

This is why people would be fine with Patrick Peterson. He isn't a position of massive need. Champ was our best defensive player last year (since Doom was injured) and Goodman is a solid if unspectacular player himself. Vaughn and Thompson give us some ok nickel and dime options. But Peterson is a freak talent so no one is going to complain if you take the freak.

Jordan or Bowers (assuming the medical red flags are removed from the scenario) would be fine choices after a trade down, assuming they're the BPA. But if we slide down and its Jordan/Bowers or Miller/Fairley/Dareus then its a pretty obvious who we should be taking.

Jordan and Bowers become good value in the 6-10 range. It'd probably take two trade backs for us to go down much beyond 6 or 7, which is unlikely. Hell, going out of the top 5 is unlikely. Even if we did get down to say 6 or 7 that means two QBs have gone (Newton and Gabbert) so assuming AJ Green actually goes in the top 5 like he should we're still talking about one of Peterson/Dareus/Miller/Fairley being on the board at 6 or 7.

The math just doesn't add up for us taking a DE, short of Elway and co. working some kind of crazy double or even triple trade down scenario.

Missouribronc
04-22-2011, 07:10 AM
It doesn't mean we should pass on an elite DE to leave a spot open for Ayers, but if we go into 2011 with Ayers as a starter its a whole lot better option than drafting a DE to replace him and going into 2011 with some random scrub starting at DT.

This is why people would be fine with Patrick Peterson. He isn't a position of massive need. Champ was our best defensive player last year (since Doom was injured) and Goodman is a solid if unspectacular player himself. Vaughn and Thompson give us some ok nickel and dime options. But Peterson is a freak talent so no one is going to complain if you take the freak.

Drek, I fail to see the logic in that. Here we're talking about not taking a defensive end, because we have Ayers and Dumervil, and we'd be stuck with nothing at DT, so we should take Patrick Peterson at CB when we already have two starters there. In both scenarios the team doesn't have DT.

I understand people think Peterson is BPA and a physical freak, but pass rush has been a problem with this team for years, and its because they don't have the front four to pound at teams. Any time this team has had a pass rush since probably 2000 or 2001, its been from gimmicks like the punt-block defensive scheme they threw out there in 2005.

This team needs studs up front, in the trenches, and if you take Peterson you're still left with retreads at DT. I know drafting for need at No. 2 isn't always smart, but when there's top flight defensive tackle talent available, I think you have to take it, especially a team like the Broncos who have been missing a good presence inside on the defensive line for 10 years.

Drek
04-22-2011, 07:21 AM
Drek, I fail to see the logic in that. Here we're talking about not taking a defensive end, because we have Ayers and Dumervil, and we'd be stuck with nothing at DT, so we should take Patrick Peterson at CB when we already have two starters there. In both scenarios the team doesn't have DT.

I understand people think Peterson is BPA and a physical freak, but pass rush has been a problem with this team for years, and its because they don't have the front four to pound at teams. Any time this team has had a pass rush since probably 2000 or 2001, its been from gimmicks like the punt-block defensive scheme they threw out there in 2005.

This team needs studs up front, in the trenches, and if you take Peterson you're still left with retreads at DT. I know drafting for need at No. 2 isn't always smart, but when there's top flight defensive tackle talent available, I think you have to take it, especially a team like the Broncos who have been missing a good presence inside on the defensive line for 10 years.

I'm personally a big advocate for Dareus, so I agree. But if we draft Peterson I won't be upset. Goodman and Champ are both on the wrong side of 30, Goodman would be lucky if he's got another 2 years in him at best, and in about two or three years the talk about Champ moving to safety probably becomes real serious. We have starters at CB right now but we also have impending need at the position.

Meanwhile at DE Doom and Ayers are both in their mid-20's. That said, if a Julius Peppers level talent was available at DE we'd be stupid to pass on him if he's BPA. Hence why Peterson is worth considering.

Ultimately I want Dareus. But I won't be the least bit upset if we take Peterson or Miller. I'm not a big Fairley guy because to me he screams one year wonder, but I can see the appeal and he fits a big need. At DE there is no extremely elite talent to justify going against need.

jhns
04-22-2011, 07:22 AM
I would change it to I don't care who they draft as long as it is defense. I really don't undersrand the no DE thing. I would have to roll my eyes at any offensive player being picked in the first, not just QB.

oubronco
04-22-2011, 07:25 AM
I will be happy with Dareus, Miller, or Peterson

Beantown Bronco
04-22-2011, 07:25 AM
This team needs studs up front, in the trenches, and if you take Peterson you're still left with retreads at DT.

Not true at all unless two things happen:

1. The Broncos trade away all of their picks after the first round.
2. There is no free agency or trading allowed in the NFL before next season starts.

Neither scenario is going to happen.

Missouribronc
04-22-2011, 07:29 AM
Not true at all unless two things happen:

1. The Broncos trade away all of their picks after the first round.



You're assuming that Elway/Fox/Xanders see a DT in the second that they want to target.

I'm not saying they wouldn't, but the scenario is more alarming to me, anyway, if they pass on a stud DT, opt for the speed/position player and try to hit on a DT later in the draft. Its just a personal opinion of being sick and tired of retreads and projects at DT.

DrFate
04-22-2011, 07:38 AM
Its just a personal opinion of being sick and tired of retreads and projects at DT.

Are you not tired of busts impersonating round 1 picks?

Missouribronc
04-22-2011, 07:43 AM
Are you not tired of busts impersonating round 1 picks?

Well, that too.

Drek
04-22-2011, 07:43 AM
You're assuming that Elway/Fox/Xanders see a DT in the second that they want to target.

I'm not saying they wouldn't, but the scenario is more alarming to me, anyway, if they pass on a stud DT, opt for the speed/position player and try to hit on a DT later in the draft. Its just a personal opinion of being sick and tired of retreads and projects at DT.
I completely agree but this team isn't going to build an elite defense overnight. Fox has done some impressive things with finding solid DTs in Carolina ever since Jenkins left (and really, even before that). If the team decides that Peterson is head and shoulders above the pack from a talent standpoint you take him and look forward to him bumping Goodman down to nickel by mid-season.

Its the mindset we would take if a Julius Peppers type of talent was in this draft. We have Doom and Ayers but you can't pass up someone so significantly more talented than the other options. Now maybe the FO thinks Dareus, Fairley, or Miller is close/equal/even better than Peterson. If that is the case then take that guy. But in this class there is no DE who even merits consideration, just like how there really isn't a QB who does.

DrFate
04-22-2011, 07:45 AM
As much as we need DLine help, I'd rather 'hit' on this #2 pick, even if it isn't a 'position of need' than reach on a particular position and end up with the 2011 version of Jarvis Moss.

A bust at #2 will set this franchise back a good long while...

Beantown Bronco
04-22-2011, 07:47 AM
You're assuming that Elway/Fox/Xanders see a DT in the second that they want to target.


Not necessarily. I'm leaving it open to the ENTIRE draft, free agency and trade. Big difference.

I have said it before here at least 4 times. Once the CBA gets worked out, I guarantee at least a handful of decent to excellent DTs will become instantly available to the Broncos if they want them. Top of my list is Aubrayo Franklin of SF. He'd be an immediate HUGE improvement over anything we currently have on the roster and anything we could hope to get in this draft.

broncogary
04-22-2011, 08:46 AM
As much as we need DLine help, I'd rather 'hit' on this #2 pick, even if it isn't a 'position of need' than reach on a particular position and end up with the 2011 version of Jarvis Moss.

A bust at #2 will set this franchise back a good long while...

Agree. Just pick players that will succeed, regardless of position, and this includes QB.

DrFate
04-22-2011, 09:00 AM
Agree. Just pick players that will succeed, regardless of position, and this includes QB.

Excactly - get a good value for the #2 overall selection

epicSocialism4tw
04-22-2011, 12:23 PM
I have no problems if they take a DE.

I just dont want a CB.

Requiem
04-22-2011, 02:09 PM
If we trade down and take Cameron Jordan, I'm stoked.

mkporter
04-22-2011, 02:16 PM
A bust at #2 will set this franchise back a good long while...

Not if there is a rookie wage scale, which was apparently one of the least contentious issues of the CBA negotiations. Who knows where what will happen there, though.

SpringStein
04-22-2011, 02:18 PM
If we trade down and take Cameron Jordan, I'm stoked.

I'm on board with you, Req.

CEH
04-22-2011, 02:30 PM
Xanders almost wet his pants today talking about what Von Miller could do for us. On first and second down play the run and run with the stud TEs of the AFCW and on third down pass rush opposite Doom

OrangeSe7en
04-22-2011, 02:35 PM
"We"? Not everyone has to feel the same way.

gunns
04-23-2011, 10:00 PM
You're missing WR, kicker, punter, safety, running back, TE..........and of course, long snapper.

This

gunns
04-23-2011, 10:02 PM
I'm personally a big advocate for Dareus, so I agree. But if we draft Peterson I won't be upset. Goodman and Champ are both on the wrong side of 30, Goodman would be lucky if he's got another 2 years in him at best, and in about two or three years the talk about Champ moving to safety probably becomes real serious. We have starters at CB right now but we also have impending need at the position.

Meanwhile at DE Doom and Ayers are both in their mid-20's. That said, if a Julius Peppers level talent was available at DE we'd be stupid to pass on him if he's BPA. Hence why Peterson is worth considering.

Ultimately I want Dareus. But I won't be the least bit upset if we take Peterson or Miller. I'm not a big Fairley guy because to me he screams one year wonder, but I can see the appeal and he fits a big need. At DE there is no extremely elite talent to justify going against need.

This, exactly. I think DT is our biggest need. I also think CB is a need. My objection to the overblown thrust to take Peterson is I don't see him as the sure thing like Suh was last year (nor is Dareus). But I won't have a problem if we take him, it's defense. Just don't blow the DT picks later.

NFLBRONCO
04-23-2011, 10:28 PM
Dareus Peterson or trade down please.

BroncoMan4ever
04-23-2011, 10:36 PM
i would be absolutely fine with DL at number 2, anybody who can have an impact on the front 7 i am happy with the pick.

anyone who plays in the secondary, or on offense if we waste a pick on those i will be unbelievably pissed off.

Shananahan
04-23-2011, 11:13 PM
Dareus Peterson or trade down please.
Yep. Ideally the trade down would occur before taking one of those two, but whatever.

Mogulseeker
04-23-2011, 11:28 PM
Is Ayers going to play SLB or LDE?

KevinJames
04-24-2011, 12:15 AM
Is Ayers going to play SLB or LDE?

Hes going to start at LDE

errand
04-24-2011, 08:48 AM
I have no problems if they take a DE.

I just dont want a CB.

Take the best defensive player available, regardless of position....I'm thinking we'll go Dareus, Petersen or Miller in no particular ranking. nobody else seems to be jumping off the charts as far as defensive players go....

Quite frankly I fail to see how they can **** this draft up...but stranger things have happened.

Hamrob
04-24-2011, 09:51 AM
I think we will trade down in the 1st round. We may not get perfect value, but we need more picks. We'll probably pick up a 2nd rounder for moving back to 7. Then, we will trade one of our 2nd rounders to move back in the 2nd and pick up more picks. Just my opinion. I think we end up with 10 picks in this draft and 5 starters!

NFLBRONCO
04-24-2011, 11:10 AM
Take the best defensive player available, regardless of position....I'm thinking we'll go Dareus, Petersen or Miller in no particular ranking. nobody else seems to be jumping off the charts as far as defensive players go....

Quite frankly I fail to see how they can **** this draft up...but stranger things have happened.

I don't think you can bomb with any of these guys but, I do think if we fail to get the one that turns out to be the best or one of the best in this draft it will hurt us.

Say we draft Dareus/Fairley will you be satisfied with the pick if they have G. Warren type careers just because we filled a huge need at the time?.

epicSocialism4tw
04-24-2011, 11:25 AM
I don't think you can bomb with any of these guys but, I do think if we fail to get the one that turns out to be the best or one of the best in this draft it will hurt us.

Say we draft Dareus/Fairley will you be satisfied with the pick if they have G. Warren type careers just because we filled a huge need at the time?.

If they turned into the Warren who played in Denver, then you take that. Hitting on a quality starter at #2 may not be the boom HOF'er that you hoped for, but its still contributing positively to the fabric of the team long term.

Baba Booey
04-24-2011, 11:26 AM
This high in the draft, you go for best player available. In my opinion that's Peterson.

I wouldn't be upset with Dareus or Miller, however.

Dedhed
04-24-2011, 11:50 AM
This high in the draft, you go for best player available. In my opinion that's Peterson.

I wouldn't be upset with Dareus or Miller, however.

I agree, although I think both Miller and Peterson are superior to Dareus as prospects.

I won't be overly upset with Dareus because of need, but I believe strongly in BPA, and that is clearly, imo, either Miller or Peterson.

NFLBRONCO
04-24-2011, 12:57 PM
I agree, although I think both Miller and Peterson are superior to Dareus as prospects.

I won't be overly upset with Dareus because of need, but I believe strongly in BPA, and that is clearly, imo, either Miller or Peterson.


You think Miller in a 4-3 is equal stud to Peterson? I'm warming up to Miller as the days go by. I still have Peterson #1.

epicSocialism4tw
04-24-2011, 12:59 PM
You think Miller in a 4-3 is equal stud to Peterson? I'm warming up to Miller as the days go by. I still have Peterson #1.

Miller is a guy who can literally revolutionize your defense.

Dedhed
04-24-2011, 01:13 PM
You think Miller in a 4-3 is equal stud to Peterson? I'm warming up to Miller as the days go by. I still have Peterson #1.

I do think Miller CAN be as much of a stud as Peterson, but there is a contingency on the coaching staff to utilize him differently than you would a typical Sam.

I love the idea of having him stand up in base packages and then put his hand in the dirt in nickle/dime looks while bumping Ayers inside to DT. I think there is a ton of stuff you can do with Miller, but if you don't do any of it, he is not as valuable as Peterson.

Cleo McDowell
04-24-2011, 01:16 PM
Miller is a guy who can literally revolutionize your defense.

minus the mlb/slb difference in position, how would you compare him to someone like Patrick Willis as a prospect and the potential effect on our D?

Missouribronc
04-24-2011, 01:29 PM
minus the mlb/slb difference in position, how would you compare him to someone like Patrick Willis as a prospect and the potential effect on our D?

Miller really isn't a SLB either. He played outside in 3-4 at A&M, and yes he's athletic, but I've never seen the playmaking skills I saw in Willis when he was in college.

Miller, to me, looks like kind of an undersized outside linebacker in the 3-4 that uses his speed to get upfield. I don't see him making a lot of plays in the 4-3, at SLB or MLB.

epicSocialism4tw
04-24-2011, 01:54 PM
minus the mlb/slb difference in position, how would you compare him to someone like Patrick Willis as a prospect and the potential effect on our D?

Willis is a different player. He was a physical LB in college who tackled like a ton of bricks and caused turnovers. Miller is more like Simon Fletcher.

Miller, though, weighs almost 250 right now out of college. He's going to be able to hold his own right now in controlling the edge rushing game, and in three years he could be dominant out there. That's not to mention how crazy good this guy is at rushing the QB. Miller is probably the best pass-rushing outside linebacker to come out in years. But dont just think that its all he's capable of doing. He is perfectly capable of chasing down RB's in the backfield, sliding through gaps to disrupt the play behind the line, and covering TE's and RB's. He has a complete package while also having the "wow factor" in defending the passing game.

In this era of the QB, a guy like Miller can be a huge disruptive force whether blitzing, pass defending, or chasing down a draw.

Miller is also highly intelligent, and is the type that will lead a defense. He'll understand coverages, he'll even direct the defensive front 7. He has a leadership personality, is a guy who is highly respected by his teammates, and who interviews very well.

Miller is the new era thinking man's linebacker.

epicSocialism4tw
04-24-2011, 02:03 PM
Sporting News on Miller:
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-01-06/scouting-report-von-miller-olb-texas-am

Cmac821
04-24-2011, 02:15 PM
sounds like you have it all figured out, why is there still so much confusion?

Chris
04-24-2011, 02:25 PM
What if we take Parcel Fairilleuson?

epicSocialism4tw
04-24-2011, 02:31 PM
sounds like you have it all figured out, why is there still so much confusion?

Well, there's confusion because we're getting information from a message board, where there are people with agendas trying to promote this player or that, and in all honesty its tough to choose because the Broncos have so many needs and at #2 the Broncos have so many options.

Personally, I would take them in this order: 1 Miller, 2 Dareus, 3 Fairley, 4 Peterson. That's because I think that Miller is the best player in the draft and that the order reflects the best intersection of need and BPA. But you'll find that everyone has differing opinions. And nobody knows what they're planning in Dove Valley. Elway, Fox, and Xanders all might be having an oil wrestling contest to determine which guy they pick.

If the Broncos select Miller, there will be alot of people predicting that he wins DROY.

epicSocialism4tw
04-24-2011, 02:32 PM
What if we take Parcel Fairilleuson?

http://apusa.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Lombardi-Trophy.jpg