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DenverBrit
04-20-2011, 10:12 AM
It's interesting that the company who claimed IBM was 'Big Brother" has become technology's control freak.

20 April 2011 Last updated at 12:41 ET

iPhone tracks users' movements
Map of iPhone movements Apple's iPhone and iPad 3G collect information about their users' location which can be mapped

Apple iPhones and 3G iPads are secretly recording and storing details of all their owners' movements, researchers claim.

Location data is kept in a hidden, unencrypted file according to security experts Alasdair Allan and Pete Warden.

With the right software, it can be used to map exactly where a person has been.

Apple has yet to comment on the revelation, however there in no suggestion that it has been uploading or using the information.

The findings, first reported by the Guardian newspaper, will come as a surprise to most iPhone users, as their devices do not give any visual indication that such data is being recorded.

However, although the practice is not explicitly flagged-up, it appears to be covered in the company's terms of use.

"We may collect information such as occupation, language, zip code, area code, unique device identifier, location, and the time zone where an Apple product is used so that we can better understand customer behaviour and improve our products, services, and advertising"

Clearly intentional

Writing on the technology website O'Reilly Radar, Mr Allan and Mr Warden said they did not know why iPhones and iPads were collecting location information but it was "clearly intentional".

The men claim that the facility to record users' positions was added with the iOS4 software update, released in June 2010.

The data is also transferred to the owner's computer and stored in a file there each time the two devices are connected to carry-out a backup or synchronisation.

Graham Cluley, senior technology consultant at security firm Sophos, told BBC News that it was unlikely Apple planned to use the information for commercial purposes.

"I think there are some legitimate privacy concerns and people will probably look for a way of obscuring that data," he said.

"But it is an object lesson about reading the terms and conditions," he added.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13145562

Tombstone RJ
04-20-2011, 10:21 AM
It's interesting that the company who claimed IBM was 'Big Brother" has become technology's control freak.

20 April 2011 Last updated at 12:41 ET

iPhone tracks users' movements
Map of iPhone movements Apple's iPhone and iPad 3G collect information about their users' location which can be mapped

Apple iPhones and 3G iPads are secretly recording and storing details of all their owners' movements, researchers claim.

Location data is kept in a hidden, unencrypted file according to security experts Alasdair Allan and Pete Warden.

With the right software, it can be used to map exactly where a person has been.

Apple has yet to comment on the revelation, however there in no suggestion that it has been uploading or using the information.

The findings, first reported by the Guardian newspaper, will come as a surprise to most iPhone users, as their devices do not give any visual indication that such data is being recorded.

However, although the practice is not explicitly flagged-up, it appears to be covered in the company's terms of use.

"We may collect information such as occupation, language, zip code, area code, unique device identifier, location, and the time zone where an Apple product is used so that we can better understand customer behaviour and improve our products, services, and advertising"

Clearly intentional

Writing on the technology website O'Reilly Radar, Mr Allan and Mr Warden said they did not know why iPhones and iPads were collecting location information but it was "clearly intentional".

The men claim that the facility to record users' positions was added with the iOS4 software update, released in June 2010.

The data is also transferred to the owner's computer and stored in a file there each time the two devices are connected to carry-out a backup or synchronisation.

Graham Cluley, senior technology consultant at security firm Sophos, told BBC News that it was unlikely Apple planned to use the information for commercial purposes.

"I think there are some legitimate privacy concerns and people will probably look for a way of obscuring that data," he said.

"But it is an object lesson about reading the terms and conditions," he added.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13145562

Riiiiight... Apple is collecting the info. exactly for this type of BS. The more it knows about it's customers the more it knows how to enfluence it's customers.

I see a class action suit in Apple's future...

Garcia Bronco
04-20-2011, 10:21 AM
Of course they do.

maven
04-20-2011, 10:28 AM
Would not doubt google doing thesamewith android....

maven
04-20-2011, 10:33 AM
Of course they do.

How is gold doing these days? Have any other predictions?

Garcia Bronco
04-20-2011, 10:52 AM
How is gold doing these days? Have any other predictions?

I have some. Thanks for asking.

Chris
04-20-2011, 11:33 AM
No surprise. Everyone that buys Apple should know what they're getting into.

ColoradoDarin
04-20-2011, 12:51 PM
With the Cult of Apple, not a surprise. You know you don't actually own anything you buy that is Apple?

LMAO (http://www.cracked.com/article_18377_5-reasons-you-should-be-scared-apple.html)

Mogulseeker
04-20-2011, 12:52 PM
Did anyone ever actually doubt this?

Binkythefrog
04-20-2011, 01:03 PM
Would not doubt google doing thesamewith android....

Authors of the study did not find any evidence of this being done without users knowledge. Of course, they might just be better at hiding it.

When you opt-in to location services though they know where you are, but the key difference is that Google allows you to disable location features, but in this case Apple did not.

HILife
04-20-2011, 01:24 PM
http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/androids.jpg

Smiling Assassin27
04-20-2011, 01:28 PM
Be sure to speak directly into that ball point pen, please.

DenverBrit
04-20-2011, 02:37 PM
Authors of the study did not find any evidence of this being done without users knowledge. Of course, they might just be better at hiding it.

When you opt-in to location services though they know where you are, but the key difference is that Google allows you to disable location features, but in this case Apple did not.

Apple just hid the capability in their software update, users had no idea they could be tracked 24/7.

TailgateNut
04-20-2011, 02:50 PM
FYI: Anyone who has a cell phone based GPS is being tracked 24/7. the question remains if it is being logged.

Mogulseeker
04-20-2011, 02:55 PM
Apple offers a service called mobileme... one of the features of this service is that apple can pinpoint the location of the phone if it becomes lost.

DUH they're tracking their phones.

DenverBrit
04-20-2011, 04:07 PM
Apple offers a service called mobileme... one of the features of this service is that apple can pinpoint the location of the phone if it becomes lost.

DUH they're tracking their phones.

That's a service users know about.

What Apple is doing now is sneaking in a tracking capability into the iPhone and iPad.....and the users computer.

Apple iPhones and 3G iPads are secretly recording and storing details of all their owners' movements, researchers claim.

Dedhed
04-20-2011, 05:07 PM
No surprise. Everyone that buys Apple should know what they're getting into.

Are you imaging that google and droid aren't doing the same thing?

cutthemdown
04-20-2011, 06:07 PM
blackberry- there is a reason important people use them.

Willynowei
04-21-2011, 06:47 AM
There's nothing really wrong with this other than the fact that its NOT encrypted and stored locally on your phone.

The fact that they keep a history of your location/use is standard industry practice. One of the reasons so many of your apps are free is that they can track your use data and sell it as valuable marketing research.

The end result is better ads for consumers, and lower device/service costs since the ad revenue technically subsidizes the cost of services.

And really, what are you losing? Your privacy within 100 yards?

Arguable that Apple should pay you for this data, but you signed a contract by purchasing that phone, one that you didn't have to enter into.

baja
04-21-2011, 06:56 AM
Fear was high about George Orwell's chip prediction in his book '1984' yet most now pay a monthly fee to be "chipped". Our smart phones are also our chips.

Popps
04-21-2011, 08:47 AM
There's nothing really wrong with this other than the fact that its NOT encrypted and stored locally on your phone.

The fact that they keep a history of your location/use is standard industry practice. One of the reasons so many of your apps are free is that they can track your use data and sell it as valuable marketing research.

The end result is better ads for consumers, and lower device/service costs since the ad revenue technically subsidizes the cost of services.

And really, what are you losing? Your privacy within 100 yards?

Arguable that Apple should pay you for this data, but you signed a contract by purchasing that phone, one that you didn't have to enter into.

Yea, nothing really that unusual about this... like it or not. Google and other websites have been tracking our movement for years. Facebook seeks to completely own you.

There IS a cost to all of this technology. I'm a huge fan of it, but...nothing is without a cost.

jhns
04-21-2011, 08:58 AM
What are you doing that would make this matter? Are you afraid some random employee is going to see your usual routine of hitting up the crack house, while you are on your way to the porn shop, before visiting a hooker? I'm pretty sure all phones log this info though. They found some random crack heads last year, that got lost and died in the snow, by looking up where they made their last cell phone calls from. Any time you use your phone, someone can find out where you were.

That all said, apple is a joke and we should all laugh at anyone that buys their stuff.

baja
04-21-2011, 08:59 AM
What's disconcerting to me is the new app. put out by Twitter founder called Square. This technology is the necessary precursor to a cashless society. A system where every transaction is tracked... and taxed of course.

baja
04-21-2011, 09:02 AM
What are you doing that would make this matter? Are you afraid some random employee is going to see your usual routine of hitting up the crack house, while you are on your way to the porn shop, before visiting a hooker? I pretty sure all phones log this info though. They found some random crack heads last year, that got lost and died in the snow, by looking up where they made their last cell phone calls from. Any time you use your phone, someone can find out where you were.

That all said, apple is a joke and we should all laugh at anyone that buys their stuff.

Yes the old "What have you got to hide" argument. It is the mechanism of control given over that bothers some of us old timers.

jhns
04-21-2011, 09:09 AM
Yes the old "What have you got to hide" argument. It is the mechanism of control given over that bothers some of us old timers.

What control though? They aren't controlling anything you do. I would bet that no one even sees these logs. Even if they did, what could they possibly get from them that would effect you? Lastly, this isn't a secret, you could always put on the tin foil hat and give up the cell phone.

Old Dude
04-21-2011, 09:15 AM
What exactly is an iPhone? Is that anything like a cell phone?

I try to stick with the stuff I trust:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/house/43114d1244580479-how-your-house-phone-connected-type-old_telephone.jpg

footstepsfrom#27
04-21-2011, 09:18 AM
Little do they know I'm tracking them too. ;D

Rigs11
04-21-2011, 09:23 AM
don't the internets do similar things by tracking what sites you visit?Also they say that it is based on antennas which at times can not pinpoint your exact location.people should be more concerned about social sites like facebook, which keep your info long after you deactivate your account.

baja
04-21-2011, 09:52 AM
What control though? They aren't controlling anything you do. I would bet that no one even sees these logs. Even if they did, what could they possibly get from them that would effect you? Lastly, this isn't a secret, you could always put on the tin foil hat and give up the cell phone.

I would like to interact with you jhns but I just don't how to communicate with you we are so far removed from each other's vision of reality.

My point is technology is allowing for a never before possible level of population control by (let's say) a government gone bad. Technology has made it very difficult for historical freedom fighters to take back their freedoms. The electronic cage is very very secure. This is my concern.

jhns
04-21-2011, 10:15 AM
we are so far removed from each other's vision of reality.

Yes we are, but that is why I ask questions. I would love to start understanding some of this stuff and what causes people to start thinking like that.

I develope software for a pretty big company. I have access to all kinds of information on thousands of people. Other than identity theft, I see no way for this info to be used against the individuals. Some of that info is exactly what we are talking about now. I can see where this companies employees have been at any given time while working and tell you exactly what they are doing. I guess their freedom has gone away some. They now can't break the law or put the public in danger without us knowing. I don't see why losing those "freedoms" would be a problem though.

epicSocialism4tw
04-21-2011, 10:19 AM
Orwell's 1984 is here folks.

Your conversations can also be recorded through your iPhone. Police in Michigan can download all of the information on your phone with a device, without a warrant. The TSA can search you unreasonably. You can receive traffic tickets through the mail without police contact. The government can seize your property.

We all need a serious wake up call.

baja
04-21-2011, 10:39 AM
Orwell's 1984 is here folks.

Your conversations can also be recorded through your iPhone. Police in Michigan can download all of the information on your phone with a device, without a warrant. The TSA can search you unreasonably. You can receive traffic tickets through the mail without police contact. The government can seize your property.

We all need a serious wake up call.

9/11 and the response was that wake up call. Didn't work!

razorwire77
04-21-2011, 10:45 AM
The only thing that Orwell got wrong is that people he didn't anticipate that people would be willing to pay 99.95 a month to be tracked. [/FONT]

jhns
04-21-2011, 10:48 AM
You can receive traffic tickets through the mail without police contact.


I am so glad Nebraska has never let this happen.

baja
04-21-2011, 10:48 AM
Yes! Smart phone = chipped.

Wait until the app. Square takes hold. Say goodbye to folding money and say hi to a cashless society.

listopencil
04-21-2011, 11:13 AM
Well, every sheep needs a shepherd I guess.

Mogulseeker
04-21-2011, 11:15 AM
I would like to interact with you jhns but I just don't how to communicate with you we are so far removed from each other's vision of reality.

My point is technology is allowing for a never before possible level of population control by (let's say) a government gone bad. Technology has made it very difficult for historical freedom fighters to take back their freedoms. The electronic cage is very very secure. This is my concern.

Don't quote him dude ^5

listopencil
04-21-2011, 11:20 AM
Don't quote him dude ^5

This.

jhns
04-21-2011, 01:10 PM
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

baja
04-21-2011, 01:23 PM
"Know Thy Enemy" - The Art of War

Chris
04-21-2011, 01:28 PM
What exactly is an iPhone? Is that anything like a cell phone?

I try to stick with the stuff I trust:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/house/43114d1244580479-how-your-house-phone-connected-type-old_telephone.jpg

Weird I just got a case for my phone that looks just like that.

DenverBrit
04-21-2011, 02:20 PM
Government officials want answers to secret iPhone tracking

By Helen A.S. Popkin

While iPhone and iPad owners waffled between Skynet jokes and genuine concern over yesterday's confirmation that the devices may be mapping their every move, Sen. Al Franken, D-Minn., got down to business, firing off nine pointed questions in a two-page open letter to Apple CEO Steve Jobs.

The tech-savvy senator cuts to the chase — the fact that iPhones and iPads running iOS 4 record and store users locations in unencrypted files is serious. Sen. Franken's letter begins:

I read with concern a recent report by security researchers that Apple's iOS 4 operating system is secretly compiling its customers' location data in a file stored on iPhones, 3G iPads and every computer that users use to "sync" their devices. According to the researchers, this file contains consumers' latitude and longitude for every day they used an iPhone or 3G iPad running the iOS 4 operating system — sometimes logging their precise geo-location up to 100 times a day. The researchers who discovered this file found that it contained up to a year's worth of data, starting from the day they installed the iOS4 operating system. What is even more worrisome is that this file is stored in an unencrypted format on customers' iPads, iPhones and every computer a customer has used to back up his or her information.

As well as igniting privacy concerns that make Facebook issues seem downright cuddly, the open cache of very specific information "[opens] the door for a jealous spouse, thief, or even a crafty trojan to take a detailed look at your whereabouts," writes Ars Technica. "And it's information that no one should have access to — not even law enforcement, barring a court order."

More.......http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/04/21/6508416-government-officials-want-answers-to-secret-iphone-tracking?GT1=43001

........ZDNet's Diaz also adds a very funny, tongue-in-cheek observation you might want to add to your Apple conversations, if only to enrage the fanboys:

Let’s flip things a bit and pretend it had been Google that was secretly storing a file that tracked your Android device’s every move. Oh, there would cries of foul streaming across the Internet. Governments would be holding emergency meetings. Blog readers would be screaming 'I told you so' across comments sections everywhere.

Instead, I’ve read nothing but calm and straight forward reports that are noting, among other things, that Apple doesn’t seem to be doing anything with the information — as if that makes it OK. When Google fessed up about collecting (unsecured) Wi-Fi data by its Street View cars, you would have thought by the reaction that the company had broken into homes and ruffled through closets and dressers.

baja
04-21-2011, 02:32 PM
as long as they don't know where you are going ;D

DenverBrit
04-21-2011, 02:49 PM
as long as they don't know where you are going ;D

Now that would be helpful to many of us. ;D