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Bronco Rob
04-19-2011, 05:39 AM
Broncos consider OLB Miller with second overall pick



With the countdown on for this year's NFL draft, Texas A&M's Von Miller finds himself in the right place at the right time.

"It's a great time to be a linebacker, to do what I do," he said.

It is a spectacular, about-to-win-the-football-lottery time for Miller, widely regarded as the best pass rusher on the draft board. That makes him one of the players who will get a long look when the Broncos' turn pops up at No. 2 overall.

"In this league, you have to rush the passer," Broncos coach John Fox said. "(Quarterbacks are) too good just to let them stand there and look over your defense. He has the skill set to play this game, no doubt."

Mike Sherman, the former Green Bay Packers coach who now runs the Texas A&M program, was asked to describe Miller's play. "Causes concern for the quarterback," Sherman said.

That's something the Broncos could use a lot more of after finishing dead last in sacks among NFL teams a year ago.

Miller combines the size (6-foot-3, 246 pounds) and speed (4.53 seconds in the 40-yard dash, electronically timed), to give offenses nightmares. He led the NCAA in sacks as a junior with 17, and last fall overcame an early-season ankle injury and a position change from defensive end to a hybrid position at outside linebacker to record 10 1/2 sacks.

He finished the workout season leading up to the draft having convinced NFL talent evaluators he can flourish in a 4-3 or a 3-4.

"I tell them, a 3-4, a 4-3, a 5-2, however you want to line up, I just want to be the best defensive player in it," Miller said. "Ask me to do something and I'll do it."

Fox is looking for disruptive players on defense who force turnovers. Nobody forces more turnovers than an elite pass rusher.

Sherman calls Miller's college career an intersection of "talent and aspirations." The talent always was there, but the inspiration arrived a bit later.




for the rest....http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17877532




Von Miller, LB-DE, Texas A&M



Height, weight: 6-foot-3, 246 pounds


Workout numbers: Ran a 4.42 40-yard dash (hand-timed) and came in at 4.53 on the electronic clock, making him the second-fastest outside linebacker at the scouting combine, where 4.76 was the average time at that position. He benched 225 pounds 21 times, and his 37-inch vertical leap was the best among linebackers.


Strengths: He gets to quarterbacks, leading the nation in 2009 with 17 sacks to go with 10 1/2 this past season. Has great burst off the ball to get the corner, but is also more proficient working to the inside than most of the other rushers on the board.


Weaknesses: Will need to smooth out some rough edges in run defense, as well as in some of his pass drops into coverage. Has been asked to do one thing for the most part in the Aggies' defense — rush the passer. Played outside linebacker in Senior Bowl workouts.


Games of note: Miller has supplied scouts with plenty of video to consider, having gone against a who's-who of draft picks at left tackle in the Big 12. Teams have broken down matchups with Trent Williams, Russell Okung and Phil Loadholt, two first-round picks and a second-round pick, respectively, in recent years.


Things you should know: A prankster, who once put a dead snake under a teammate's bed. He once tossed the team's strength coach into a swimming pool.





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jmz313
04-19-2011, 06:49 AM
You'd think Dumerville coming back would make a Pass rusher less of a target for this years draft. I'm sure if Doom was healthy last season and not on IR, we could of mustered a few more sacks.

worm
04-19-2011, 06:58 AM
We have interest in anyone that another team might like at #3-#10.

Fall in love with your guy, NFL teams...then come trade with us. In a perfect scenario, we trade down twice and still stay in the top 10.

Pick Six
04-19-2011, 07:01 AM
The AFC West is a run-happy division. While another pass rusher would be great, we need people who can stuff the run...

BroncoMan4ever
04-19-2011, 07:22 AM
You'd think Dumerville coming back would make a Pass rusher less of a target for this years draft. I'm sure if Doom was healthy last season and not on IR, we could of mustered a few more sacks.

you can never have enough elite pass rushers. the Giants won a super bowl and ended any hopes of an undefeated season with that style of defense.

they had so many pass rushers that it disrupted everything about the Pats offense. they drafted DL talent one after another in the 1st round for something like 3 straight seasons.

adding an elite pass rusher that takes some heat off of Doom only makes things that much easier for both Doom and Miller. not only that, but outside of Doom, no one on this defense has shown any ability to get to the QB on a consistent basis, and as much as I love Doom the majority of his sacks come in bunches, not on a consistent basis.

give him another pass rusher and create a badass tandem, then address the DT position and this defense improves drastically.

tsiguy96
04-19-2011, 07:26 AM
between him, fairley, dareus and peterson according to chris mortensen. i would imagine realistically its between him and dareus, as long as dareus doesnt go first.

Man-Goblin
04-19-2011, 07:37 AM
Never enough pass rush. The more I look at it, the more I'm starting to feel like this is my guy. I would feel better about it if the Broncos were still a 3-4 defense, though.

The number 2 pick has to be an elite player, and both of the tackles have big questions. I'm not sure that Dareus can be elite in the league, and Fairley scares the **** out of me.

long beach bronco
04-19-2011, 07:53 AM
As much as I want Patrick Peterson, the Broncos should trade out of the #2 spot with a QB hungry team and get additional picks and still draft Miller. I think that would be the safest and quickest way to improve our pass rush for next season.

Dedhed
04-19-2011, 07:58 AM
I would have no problem with Miller, even at #2, although I would love to get him a few picks later after trading down.

I've said all along that the back of the front 7 is weaker than the front, and taking Miller makes an atrocious LB group legitimate from day one. Adding Miller at Sam and getting DJ back to Will makes that group far better than they have been since Al left the building.

I also think there are intriguing hybrid options with Miller, Doom, and Ayers that could create serious havoc for QBs.

gunns
04-19-2011, 08:01 AM
While I think the canning of Bannan and Williams has created a huge hole in a lousy DL, and would suggest strongly we would take a DL, I would not be surprised at all to see them take Miller. I'm to the point, just give me defense, lots and lots of good defense.

worm
04-19-2011, 08:02 AM
you can never have enough elite pass rushers. the Giants won a super bowl and ended any hopes of an undefeated season with that style of defense.

they had so many pass rushers that it disrupted everything about the Pats offense. they drafted DL talent one after another in the 1st round for something like 3 straight seasons.


This is not correct. Not only the amount of DL talent taken in the 1st round by the Giants but the implication in this and other past threads where the drafting philosophy of the Giants was to take DL early and often because of the position importance...and that that philosophy was proven correct by them winning a Superbowl.

You will have to find another reason to justify going with need or DL position importance over BPA in the 1st because it just isn't true in this Giant example you love to cite. Actually it is the opposite.

Since 2000, the Giants have gone RB, CB, TE, DT, QB, CB(no 1st), DE, CB, S, WR, DE in the 1st round. Hardly d-line all the time.

Additionally, all but the last 3 of those draft picks were made by Ernie Accorsi. This is what Ernie had to say after the '06 draft when he last took a DL player in the 1st (and where his need for DL wasn't great):

"I look at the draft and the offseason in one package. I think we filled needs. I really think that after the second round you can't give up ground on grades, but all things being equal you need to address needs. I don't think you should be addressing needs in the first and second rounds. If the need and grade match, then great.

"The grade was so outstanding in the first round. I'm not one who is married to the intricate tenths of a point on a board grade. But if you don't respect the board when there is a significant difference, then why have scouts? Because that is not a lottery number up there. That is a number that is an accumulation of all that work that they have done. That grade was earned and Kiwanuka was by far the best player there. So we picked him. In the second round it was the grade because he was a first-round consideration and we needed another receiver."

Read his Q and A from 2006 to understand how he justifies selected BPA for the 1st and 2nd rounds and goes after needs in the later rounds. http://www.giants.com/news/eisen/story.asp?story_id=15650.

For what its worth....Ernie is also the GM that selected Elway and the one man that Elway named as a mentor in his opening presser as VP with the Broncos. A mentor that he said he has already contacted and will continue to lean on. I really don't think you will see Elway stray too far from Ernie's drafting philosophy.

baja
04-19-2011, 08:05 AM
We have interest in anyone that another team might like at #3-#10.

Fall in love with your guy, NFL teams...then come trade with us. In a perfect scenario, we trade down twice and still stay in the top 10.

Who do you like in that scenario?

worm
04-19-2011, 08:10 AM
Who do you like in that scenario?

At #2, I think you HAVE to go BPA....which is Peterson to me. I would prefer to trade down and get someone like Dareus at #5 or someone like Watt at #10.

Beantown Bronco
04-19-2011, 08:18 AM
The AFC West is a run-happy division. While another pass rusher would be great, we need people who can stuff the run...

This. Our AFC West opponents were literally ranked #1, #4 and #9 in the NFL last year in rushing attempts per game.

McDman
04-19-2011, 08:23 AM
It's really hard to take an OLB at the #2 pick but I won't be furious if we do.

Please, just don't pick offense.

orange crusher
04-19-2011, 08:35 AM
At #2, I think you HAVE to go BPA....which is Peterson to me. I would prefer to trade down and get someone like Dareus at #5 or someone like Watt at #10.

Dareus will be picked before Peterson.

cmhargrove
04-19-2011, 09:05 AM
I think i'm with others that would like to trade down a few spots and still pick up a Miller or Fairley.

I'll be happy with Dareus at #2, but getting some additional picks, then trading back up into the bottom of round 1 would be a coup.

It should be fun to watch...

meangene
04-19-2011, 09:17 AM
I don't think we will be able to trade back and get Miller. Think either Buffalo or Arizona takes him and I don't see Arizona trading up with us to get a QB. So, if we trade back to say, #7, we could be looking at Peterson or Fairley. Fairley is too much of a character risk IMO. If we go back further - say, #9-12, I think we are looking at guys like Jordan or Leguit. If we don't go DL with our first pick, the guy most likely to fall to us with our 2nd pick (among the top tier DL) is Paea, IMO. So, if we stay where we are, we could take Miller and still get Paea. Same if we move back some and take Peterson. If we move back farther, we still get a quality DL in the first. I think we want to move back and it all depends on whom, if anyone, is willing to trade up. But, either way, I still see us being able to get a quality DL in the first two rounds.

errand
04-19-2011, 09:48 AM
You'd think Dumerville coming back would make a Pass rusher less of a target for this years draft. I'm sure if Doom was healthy last season and not on IR, we could of mustered a few more sacks.

I can appreciate your optimism, but it sounds like you're saying "we've got a pass rusher, why do we need two"?

The best players on defense are Fairley, Dareus, Miller, and Petersen in no particular order depending on which "experts" you want to listen to or read....we know we're gonna get one of them.

I'm thinking Miller would be the best choice because he solves a few of the problems we had....he can rush the passer, cover RB's in the flat, etc. has speed and explosiveness, and isn't a liability vs the run.

He looks like the kind of player who can take over and change games...and that's something we could definitely use.

errand
04-19-2011, 09:56 AM
The AFC West is a run-happy division. While another pass rusher would be great, we need people who can stuff the run...

Miller according to the film "experts" is not that bad vs the run, which is pretty good considering he was asked to mainly rush the QB.....he's pretty much looked like the second coming of LT. Remains to be seen, of course, but the potential is there. We need help at all positions on defense, be it DL, LB, or DB.

Old Dude
04-19-2011, 10:02 AM
Just about everything I'm hearing and reading says Carolina is taking Newton at #1 and that Denver won't pass up Dareus at #2.

I'll be very surprised if it plays out any other way.

_Oro_
04-19-2011, 10:02 AM
I could see Fox going with Miller just based on the success he had with Peppers.

HAT
04-19-2011, 10:04 AM
You'd think Dumerville coming back would make a Pass rusher less of a target for this years draft. I'm sure if Doom was healthy last season and not on IR, we could of mustered a few more sacks.

Exactly the opposite. Doom being out last year shows exactly why you need more than 1 pass rusher.

TheReverend
04-19-2011, 10:07 AM
This is not correct. Not only the amount of DL talent taken in the 1st round by the Giants but the implication in this and other past threads where the drafting philosophy of the Giants was to take DL early and often because of the position importance...and that that philosophy was proven correct by them winning a Superbowl.

You will have to find another reason to justify going with need or DL position importance over BPA in the 1st because it just isn't true in this Giant example you love to cite. Actually it is the opposite.

Since 2000, the Giants have gone RB, CB, TE, DT, QB, CB(no 1st), DE, CB, S, WR, DE in the 1st round. Hardly d-line all the time.

Additionally, all but the last 3 of those draft picks were made by Ernie Accorsi. This is what Ernie had to say after the '06 draft when he last took a DL player in the 1st (and where his need for DL wasn't great):

"I look at the draft and the offseason in one package. I think we filled needs. I really think that after the second round you can't give up ground on grades, but all things being equal you need to address needs. I don't think you should be addressing needs in the first and second rounds. If the need and grade match, then great.

"The grade was so outstanding in the first round. I'm not one who is married to the intricate tenths of a point on a board grade. But if you don't respect the board when there is a significant difference, then why have scouts? Because that is not a lottery number up there. That is a number that is an accumulation of all that work that they have done. That grade was earned and Kiwanuka was by far the best player there. So we picked him. In the second round it was the grade because he was a first-round consideration and we needed another receiver."

Read his Q and A from 2006 to understand how he justifies selected BPA for the 1st and 2nd rounds and goes after needs in the later rounds. http://www.giants.com/news/eisen/story.asp?story_id=15650.

For what its worth....Ernie is also the GM that selected Elway and the one man that Elway named as a mentor in his opening presser as VP with the Broncos. A mentor that he said he has already contacted and will continue to lean on. I really don't think you will see Elway stray too far from Ernie's drafting philosophy.

Quoting this because it should be read multiple times for a variety of reasons.

Outstanding post. Repped.

jmz313
04-19-2011, 11:15 AM
you can never have enough elite pass rushers. the Giants won a super bowl and ended any hopes of an undefeated season with that style of defense.

they had so many pass rushers that it disrupted everything about the Pats offense. they drafted DL talent one after another in the 1st round for something like 3 straight seasons.

adding an elite pass rusher that takes some heat off of Doom only makes things that much easier for both Doom and Miller. not only that, but outside of Doom, no one on this defense has shown any ability to get to the QB on a consistent basis, and as much as I love Doom the majority of his sacks come in bunches, not on a consistent basis.

give him another pass rusher and create a badass tandem, then address the DT position and this defense improves drastically.

Stopping the run is more important. Otherwise the other team don't have to pass. Build D from the Ball out, IMO.

spdirty
04-19-2011, 11:36 AM
man, either a badass corner, a maybe possibly badass DT, or a badass pass rusher. Think right now I'm leaning toward PP or Miller. But I'm not firmly in anyones camp.

listopencil
04-19-2011, 11:57 AM
Read his Q and A from 2006 to understand how he justifies selected BPA for the 1st and 2nd rounds and goes after needs in the later rounds. http://www.giants.com/news/eisen/story.asp?story_id=15650.



That does sound like the way to go. Thanks for the quotes, very interesting.

listopencil
04-19-2011, 12:04 PM
This. Our AFC West opponents were literally ranked #1, #4 and #9 in the NFL last year in rushing attempts per game.

Ever since the realignment the impact of division games has been reduced. OAK went undefeated in the AFC West last year. They didn't make the playoffs and their Head coach was fired. We play six out of sixteen games in the division. You can't build a team around the concept of being successful in 37.5% of games played. They have to build a team that is capable of being competitive with the conference and the NFL as a whole.

epicSocialism4tw
04-19-2011, 12:07 PM
Miller according to the film "experts" is not that bad vs the run, which is pretty good considering he was asked to mainly rush the QB.....he's pretty much looked like the second coming of LT. Remains to be seen, of course, but the potential is there. We need help at all positions on defense, be it DL, LB, or DB.

6'3" 246...as a rook.

Dude's a physical freak with lightning feet. He has an extensive track record against some of the best offenses in the world of college football.

I like him as a player better than anyone else in the draft. Its just a matter of what the Broncos choose to do.

Great athlete, great attitude...Miller is the most reasonable pick in the draft, IMO.

Beantown Bronco
04-19-2011, 12:07 PM
Ever since the realignment the impact of division games has been reduced. OAK went undefeated in the AFC West last year. They didn't make the playoffs and their Head coach was fired. We play six out of sixteen games in the division. You can't build a team around the concept of being successful in 37.5% of games played. They have to build a team that is capable of being competitive with the conference and the NFL as a whole.

You're right. None of their other opponents liked to run the ball. We shouldn't make it a priority.

(Just checked the 2011 schedule for the heck of it: only 5 games next year are against teams ranked in the bottom half of the league in rushing attempts and none are ranked lower than #25)

Pick Six
04-19-2011, 12:10 PM
man, either a badass corner, a maybe possibly badass DT, or a badass pass rusher. Think right now I'm leaning toward PP or Miller. But I'm not firmly in anyones camp.

I just like that we have a lot of options. We shouldn't make supreme suckage a habit, but it IS nice, this year...:bronxrox:

listopencil
04-19-2011, 12:12 PM
You're right. None of their other opponents liked to run the ball. We shouldn't make it a priority.

Yeah, awesome post man. Use the run ranking of our division opponents to support a drafting choice then pretend you were talking about something else when I show you that you are wrong. Put the lid back on your tube of airplane glue before you post next time.

Beantown Bronco
04-19-2011, 12:17 PM
Yeah, awesome post man. Use the run ranking of our division opponents to support a drafting choice then pretend you were talking about something else when I show you that you are wrong. Put the lid back on your tube of airplane glue before you post next time.

Talk about an inaccurate post.

1. I didn't support a particular choice anywhere in my original post. All I did was emphasize a particular weakness I wanted the team to improve. Please prove otherwise.

2. I didn't pretend to talk about anything else in post #2. I very actively stated that I just looked at their schedule for the heck of it to see how the other teams matched up. I, unlike you, know what I said and supported it with evidence. Please prove otherwise.

3. You showed me I was wrong? About what?

JDB7821
04-19-2011, 12:26 PM
I don't think it'd be a bad idea to take Von Miller and then double up on DT's in the second. Take Miller, then draft Paea and Austin in the 2nd. They could also take a DE at one of those spots instead, like Justin Houston or Jabaal Sheard.

I just think you HAVE to leave this draft with a star at 2. Miller or Peterson can be that star, I'm not so sure Dareus can.

epicSocialism4tw
04-19-2011, 12:28 PM
I don't think it'd be a bad idea to take Von Miller and then double up on DT's in the second. Take Miller, then draft Paea and Austin in the 2nd. They could also take a DE at one of those spots instead, like Justin Houston or Jabaal Sheard.

I just think you HAVE to leave this draft with a star at 2. Miller or Peterson can be that star, I'm not so sure Dareus can.

The odds are pretty fair that a DL player will drop to the Broncos at #36. I think you go Miller and then the top DL player on the board at 2a. This team just doesnt need a CB.

jutang
04-19-2011, 12:38 PM
I would be happy with Von Miller. He has the higher ceiling compared to Dareus and non of the character concerns/one season wonder ? that Fairley has. It is such a pass happy league now that stopping the QB is more important than stopping the run imo. Having an LB of Willis or Urlacher's ability would be huge.

What the FO really needs to do is pick out the player that would excel in Fox's defensive scheme.

TheReverend
04-19-2011, 12:47 PM
Dude's a physical freak with lightning feet. He has an extensive track record against some of the best offenses in the world of college football.

I like how this sentence even more accurately describes Peterson, but for some reason you hate him?

rugbythug
04-19-2011, 01:19 PM
I like how this sentence even more accurately describes Peterson, but for some reason you hate him?

To say one was more dominant than the other would be false.

razorwire77
04-19-2011, 01:51 PM
The more tape I watch and the more interviews I read, the more I'm warming up to Von Miller.I'd be OK with Von at pick no. 2, as long as we follow it up with a guy like Pea with 2A.

tsiguy96
04-19-2011, 03:09 PM
The more tape I watch and the more interviews I read, the more I'm warming up to Von Miller.I'd be OK with Von at pick no. 2, as long as we follow it up with a guy like Pea with 2A.

it means literally jack in the grand scheme of player evaluation, but heres a cool video starting about 1 minute in. cool to watch a LB who wraps up his tackles in the backfield. how many times the last 3-4 years has a denver player exploded to the QB or RB, then missed the tackle?

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UnZSceCN5Yg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TheReverend
04-19-2011, 03:37 PM
To say one was more dominant than the other would be false.

I personally think Peterson had a bigger impact in a better conference, but other than nit-picking, you can't really argue with that.

My primary concern with Miller is utilizing his strengths to their utmost potential as both Fox and Allen have shown a long term tendency to not blitz their LBs.

teknic
04-19-2011, 03:37 PM
Exactly the opposite. Doom being out last year shows exactly why you need more than 1 pass rusher.

This. Let's not put all of our eggs in one basket with Dumervil. We still don't know how the injury has affected his play. He may be the same player that he was or he may not. Regardless, depth is never a bad thing, especially with pass rushers.

epicSocialism4tw
04-19-2011, 03:40 PM
I like how this sentence even more accurately describes Peterson, but for some reason you hate him?

This team simply does not need Peterson at all.

Peterson would be a luxury while we need meat and potatoes.

teknic
04-19-2011, 04:06 PM
This team simply does not need Peterson at all.

Peterson would be a luxury while we need meat and potatoes.

I don't know how you can say this. Peterson isn't my first choice, but he would would be a welcome addition to the roster.

Bailey is likely going to move to safety in a couple of years, Goodman is a sack of crap, and Cox may be going to jail. Safety, LB and DL may be bigger needs, but this pick absolutely must be a hit and we're building for the future, not necessarily next season. Our secondary is very old, something around an average age of 34, so adding an impact player there would help.

Plus, it lets us give different looks on defense, with Bailey occasionally shifting to FS while Dawkins plays at the line of scrimmage, and Peterson takes over CB1 and Goodman stays at CB2. This gives Bailey the necessary experience for the transition to safety while playing the majority of snaps at CB, and prepares Peterson to be the CB1 of the future.

I will be happy with any of Miller, Fairley, Dareus or Peterson. Kind of hoping for Miller though.

Pony Boy
04-19-2011, 04:14 PM
Broncos consider OLB Miller with second overall pick

28428

broncosteven
04-19-2011, 04:26 PM
it means literally jack in the grand scheme of player evaluation, but heres a cool video starting about 1 minute in. cool to watch a LB who wraps up his tackles in the backfield. how many times the last 3-4 years has a denver player exploded to the QB or RB, then missed the tackle?

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UnZSceCN5Yg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Doom lead the league in sacks 2 years ago wrapping up guys in the backfield.

I wonder if the Cards would consider moving up to ensure they get their QB?

That would leave a couple playmakers on the board for us and the ability to stockpile picks.

Broncoman13
04-19-2011, 04:34 PM
Miller according to the film "experts" is not that bad vs the run, which is pretty good considering he was asked to mainly rush the QB.....he's pretty much looked like the second coming of LT. Remains to be seen, of course, but the potential is there. We need help at all positions on defense, be it DL, LB, or DB.

He draws a lot of comps to Derrick Thomas as well.

As for spending a #2 on an OLB, I really don't look at it that way. I look at it as a #2 for a player that can play multiple positions. He is a DE/OLB. A guy that can get after the QB and create havoc in the opponents backfield. He fits a position of need. So at this point, you look at Dareus, Peterson, and Miller... which one has the highest ceiling? For me it is between Peterson and Miller, and I would take the guy that can get after the QB though I recognize the importance and versatility of Peterson.

Tombstone RJ
04-19-2011, 04:46 PM
I wouldn't have a problem with Miller at #2 if they feel he is the most impactful defensive player of the draft. What the Broncos need is immediate impact players on defense, and if they think Miller is that guy, you take him.

TheReverend
04-19-2011, 04:54 PM
This team simply does not need Peterson at all.

Peterson would be a luxury while we need meat and potatoes.

Well... the average age of our starting secondary is 34.25

75% of them suck.

And I like the BPA approach at #2 overall since it's hopefully a once in a lifetime selection slot, but so be it.

Play2win
04-19-2011, 05:31 PM
I would be happy with Von Miller. He has the higher ceiling compared to Dareus and non of the character concerns/one season wonder ? that Fairley has. It is such a pass happy league now that stopping the QB is more important than stopping the run imo. Having an LB of Willis or Urlacher's ability would be huge.

What the FO really needs to do is pick out the player that would excel in Fox's defensive scheme.

Or, more importantly, pick the player that would cause the entire defense, as a whole, to excel the most in Fox's defensive scheme.

LongDongJohnson
04-19-2011, 09:43 PM
I'd love Miller. Our LB's suck. DJ Williams is good but not a playmaker. Haggan, Woodyard, and Mays are whatever.

Thing is our DT's suck too. Question is which group sucks more? I like Kevin Vickerson a lot. I think he can do good. I dont know about Marcus Thomas though, assuming Thomas returns? Dareus wouldnt be a bad pick either.

Also Fox runs a lot of cover 2 zone defense. Can Miller play in primarily zone coverage? And which side would he play? Maybe we can put him at WLB and then move DJ to MLB.

John Fox loves speed at LB and Miller has tons of it. I wouldnt mind the pick at all.

Broncoman13
04-19-2011, 10:00 PM
My philosophies would really ha e us focus on Peterson. I think its between Peterson and Miller now. Ask yourself this, do you Fox would rather a player that is in the middle of the field, plays the run pretty good and could potentially give you 10_15 sacks per year. Or a stud CB that will be tested time after time with champ on one side and no front 7 to save him from being on the lonely island. I am guessing Fox likes Miller here and Elway likes PP.


Well... the average age of our starting secondary is 34.25

75% of them suck.

And I like the BPA approach at #2 overall since it's hopefully a once in a lifetime selection slot, but so be it.

epicSocialism4tw
04-19-2011, 10:58 PM
My philosophies would really ha e us focus on Peterson. I think its between Peterson and Miller now. Ask yourself this, do you Fox would rather a player that is in the middle of the field, plays the run pretty good and could potentially give you 10_15 sacks per year. Or a stud CB that will be tested time after time with champ on one side and no front 7 to save him from being on the lonely island. I am guessing Fox likes Miller here and Elway likes PP.

The BBT are in a position right now to really put a foundation in place for the next 3 years.

The way to speed the process up is to go ahead and focus your free agent dollars on a top-notch DT. A guy who has already established himself and is respected. I would love to see them pull a coup and wrestle Brandon Mebane from Seattle.

Then you draft Miller. You follow that by taking the top DL available at 2a, then BPA to fill the mass of needs on the roster: DT, DE, MLB, S, TE, and to a lesser extent OT/OG and CB.

You go to battle with those guys, and by the middle of the year those players begin to come together and grow. By the end of the year, the Denver Broncos are competing with teams and getting some results. Ayers, Dumervil, Miller, DJ Williams, and (ideally, but not counting on it) Mebane are all contributing to a fast, disruptive defense who causes matchup problems by the end of the season.

And you let Tebow grow with the offense over that same period.

By the end of the season you have a group of hungry monsters with a brutally fierce attitude on both sides of the ball. You have young guys growing and gelling on offense, and you have veterans carrying the defense. It could work.

bpc
04-20-2011, 03:45 AM
BPA or trade down.

uplink
04-20-2011, 10:00 AM
If the Broncos take Miller at #2 overall, who can they get for the D-Line in the 2nd round. Any way the DE from Ohio state drops that far (Heywood)? I think he will be a good player.

tsiguy96
04-20-2011, 10:04 AM
If the Broncos take Miller at #2 overall, who can they get for the D-Line in the 2nd round. Any way the DE from Ohio state drops that far (Heywood)? I think he will be a good player.

should be a lot of guys who have good potential, but after dareus fairley and liuget (sp) it seems like a moderate dropoff in talent. heywood should be gone in late first to a team like baltimore.

TheReverend
04-20-2011, 10:12 AM
If the Broncos take Miller at #2 overall, who can they get for the D-Line in the 2nd round. Any way the DE from Ohio state drops that far (Heywood)? I think he will be a good player.

Cameron Heyward?

I don't think so, personally. I like him a LOT and he's seen a TON of playing time at a premier program. It seems to me that scouts have held not declaring for the draft last year, and his elbow surgery against him. His productive dipped in his senior season and he wasn't able to perform at the combine due to his elbow surgery.

Still, he's been productive and powerful and has great size. Hell you could take a guy like that and slide him inside to DT and get a great penetrator.

Regardless, most of the better amateurs have him going towards the end of the first, but I personally think he goes closer towards the middle of the first.

Shananahan
04-20-2011, 10:18 AM
Heyward would be awesome in the second.

razorwire77
04-20-2011, 10:49 AM
Really like Heyward. The guy plays with really good leverage and has a great motor. I think he could be a really disruptive force inside. Certainly an upgrade over what we have now. He'd be a good pick with 2A and an absolute steal with 2B.

TheReverend
04-20-2011, 10:50 AM
Really like Heyward. The guy plays with really good leverage and has a great motor. I think he could be a really disruptive force inside. Certainly an upgrade over what we have now. He'd be a good pick with 2A and an absolute steal with 2B.

IMO, he'd be a steal at 2A

tsiguy96
04-20-2011, 10:57 AM
if a guy like heyward falls to the back end of round 1, say 28-32, why not try to move up to grab them? may cost a 2nd+3rd, but still..

razorwire77
04-20-2011, 11:02 AM
IMO, he'd be a steal at 2A

Von Miller with the 1st rounder
Heyward/Pea with 2A

BPA with 2B

Miller, Heyward, Doom, D.J., Ayers and Champ. Not a bad core group of players to build Fox's defense around.

NFLBRONCO
04-20-2011, 11:08 AM
This discussion gives another vote for Dareus it would give us alot more options in round 2.

tsiguy96
04-20-2011, 11:12 AM
This discussion gives another vote for Dareus it would give us alot more options in round 2.

the idea is that while miller has a skillset that is not replaceable in the draft, there is a large market of DTs who can produce effective results, however dareus is likely the gold standard of DTs (20 tackles for loss and 11 sacks last year i believe...)

TheReverend
04-20-2011, 11:34 AM
the idea is that while miller has a skillset that is not replaceable in the draft, there is a large market of DTs who can produce effective results, however dareus is likely the gold standard of DTs (20 tackles for loss and 11 sacks last year i believe...)

ROFL!

Last year?!?!? Try: career...

maven
04-20-2011, 11:37 AM
I wouldn't have a problem with Miller at #2 if they feel he is the most impactful defensive player of the draft. What the Broncos need is immediate impact players on defense, and if they think Miller is that guy, you take him.

Then it's miller or Peterson.

winstoncup bronco
04-20-2011, 12:12 PM
Defensively, when you're last in yards, points, and sacks, and next to last stopping the run, you don't look to a CB to start turning that around IMO.

I'm not saying anything new when I say that allowing a QB to go unharrassed is the gravest of sins a defense can commit. What further proof does anyone need after last season? We saw what happens when you have a great CB and can't even fart on the QB. You have the 2010 Broncos defense.

We need guys that can disrupt, make plays, and make a difference on all downs. Stopping the run is the key to any defense. Getting sacks, pressuring the QB and forcing turnovers is how you build a D. Peterson may be a great CB, but even Deion Sanders in his prime would only marginally impact this excuse of a defense. Much easier to avoid challenging a CB than to escape pressure.

If all the guys being touted are as good as they are hyped to be, I have seriously warmed to taking Miller, assuming he is/does what they say. How nice it would be to see opposing QB's obscured by orange and blue. Dareus would be my other guy I would want, as he would provide a well rounded presence on all downs as well. Again, I'm not a scout and just going strictly off the same things I've read as everyone else, but I believe building a defense starts with getting to the QB, and not taking advantage of getting a premier pass rusher when you pick second would be a crime.

tsiguy96
04-20-2011, 12:16 PM
ROFL!

Last year?!?!? Try: career...

oops

Rabb
04-20-2011, 12:59 PM
what I find so interesting is a lot of people are anti Peterson but pro Miller and preach the "we need D Line talent" to justify both stances

I want the best defensive player at #2 if we stay there, then I want us to take advantage of a deep defensive line stock in this year's draft

it's not a matter of "OMG if we take Peterson we failed to address the line!"

to me it's more "Sweet, we took one of the top 2 guys in the entire draft regardless of position and can get great value with little drop off in the second round and address our needs still!"

but what do I know, only time will tell

winstoncup bronco
04-20-2011, 01:30 PM
what I find so interesting is a lot of people are anti Peterson but pro Miller and preach the "we need D Line talent" to justify both stances

I want the best defensive player at #2 if we stay there, then I want us to take advantage of a deep defensive line stock in this year's draft

it's not a matter of "OMG if we take Peterson we failed to address the line!"

to me it's more "Sweet, we took one of the top 2 guys in the entire draft regardless of position and can get great value with little drop off in the second round and address our needs still!"

but what do I know, only time will tell

Well, I don't know if it's accurate to say anyone is anti Peterson. The guy is an obvious talent, no one has disputed that. The crux of the argument is, is drafting a CB 2nd overall a good idea given the atrocious state of this defense? I don't believe it is, but I wouldn't cringe if we got Peterson either.

The BPA argument to me is fuzzy at best. It's not like if we take Miller or Dareus, we're taking a guy that would fall to 10th or lower otherwise. These are guys that will not last much past our selection, and also, when you pick second, you take advantage and get a guy that you will not ever have a chance at otherwise. Plus, this defense needs help everywhere, so anyone they select is technically a "need" pick. It's not like we're the Patriots and fell ass-backwards into the #2 pick and can afford to pick BPA just because. Who's to say Gabbert or Green aren't BPA at 2? What if there was a LT that was BPA? Should we pick those guys? I don't necessarily advocate drafting strictly for need, but selecting 2nd is too early to go into BPA mode. Broncos should go for the guy that will have the greatest impact on defense, period, which to me is a guy that can disrupt and create havoc in the backfield.

I'll be happy with either Dareus, Miller, or Peterson, as would everyone else on here. My point is, how much does a CB affect a game as opposed to a disruptor? For as great as Champ is, he can only do so much when the QB has 10 seconds to decide where to go with the ball.

Rabb
04-20-2011, 01:32 PM
honestly as long as we get a difference maker, I don't care what position it is

I just would hate to have us pick someone based on need when someone with possibly equal or better long term upside could be had later

TheReverend
04-20-2011, 01:40 PM
Well, I don't know if it's accurate to say anyone is anti Peterson. The guy is an obvious talent, no one has disputed that. The crux of the argument is, is drafting a CB 2nd overall a good idea given the atrocious state of this defense? I don't believe it is, but I wouldn't cringe if we got Peterson either.

The BPA argument to me is fuzzy at best. It's not like if we take Miller or Dareus, we're taking a guy that would fall to 10th or lower otherwise. These are guys that will not last much past our selection, and also, when you pick second, you take advantage and get a guy that you will not ever have a chance at otherwise. Plus, this defense needs help everywhere, so anyone they select is technically a "need" pick. It's not like we're the Patriots and fell ass-backwards into the #2 pick and can afford to pick BPA just because. Who's to say Gabbert or Green aren't BPA at 2? What if there was a LT that was BPA? Should we pick those guys? I don't necessarily advocate drafting strictly for need, but selecting 2nd is too early to go into BPA mode. Broncos should go for the guy that will have the greatest impact on defense, period, which to me is a guy that can disrupt and create havoc in the backfield.

I'll be happy with either Dareus, Miller, or Peterson, as would everyone else on here. My point is, how much does a CB affect a game as opposed to a disruptor? For as great as Champ is, he can only do so much when the QB has 10 seconds to decide where to go with the ball.

I really like collegiate production so MY top 5 (ignoring need) are:

Peterson
Green
Miller
Quinn
Fairley


On draft day, I'll be happy with any of those defensive selections. I'll be effing THRILLED if they sack up and get Peterson. I'll be understanding if they take Green.

We have 2 early second rounders that should be impact selections in a deep DL draft. We have the potential to move around and gather even more. When this ridiculous lock out ends, we'll have an FA period and a GREATER opportunity than I can remember to grab impact defenders (yet again, especially along the DL).

The #2 overall selection is NOT the Alpha and Omega of the 2011 Broncos, but it CAN be a lynch pin for the next decade if used properly. People treating it as if it's the only move we have to address the defense and team should be slapped squarely across the face.

Traveler
04-20-2011, 01:47 PM
Drafting for need will undermine a franchise over the long haul. Especially in the 1st round. Having said that, this may be one of the few times where value and need match perfectly.

Dareus, Miller, or Peterson at number two and we can't go wrong.

The Joker
04-20-2011, 01:57 PM
I was against Miller early on, but I've seriously warmed to him and he might now be the guy I'm hoping for on draft day if we stay at #2.

A 3rd down pass rushing demon who can also be a playmaking linebacker in the base 4-3 defense?

Sign me up.

I'd have a hard time getting upset with a talent like Peterson though, and trading back a few spots and getting Dareus or Fairley would be immense also.

I don't think we can trade back and still land Miller though, Bills will take him if he makes it to #3 I expect.

Beantown Bronco
04-20-2011, 02:11 PM
Dareus, Miller, or Peterson at number two and we can't go wrong.

If only.....

errand
04-21-2011, 04:35 PM
6'3" 246...as a rook.

Dude's a physical freak with lightning feet. He has an extensive track record against some of the best offenses in the world of college football.

I like him as a player better than anyone else in the draft. Its just a matter of what the Broncos choose to do.

Great athlete, great attitude...Miller is the most reasonable pick in the draft, IMO.

I agree and he solves more than one problem as he can cover RB's, rush the passer and is stout against the run, despite not being asked to do it alot at A&M.

Dareus is a good choice for sure, but there's just something about a 250 pound LB that can change the game that makes Miller a better pick in my opinion.

errand
04-21-2011, 04:40 PM
to me it's more "Sweet, we took one of the top 2 guys in the entire draft regardless of position and can get great value with little drop off in the second round and address our needs still!"


I'm with you...my take is that game changing LB is a better find than a cover corner.

I look at it like this if we miss on Dareus we can still find a quality DT in 2nd round. A little less so if we miss Petersen, drop off is bigger but not the gaping hole it seems between Miller and the rest of the draft's LB's