PDA

View Full Version : Paige: Broncos' new triumvirate has no room for erratum


Bronco Rob
04-16-2011, 05:41 AM
Paige: Broncos' new triumvirate has no room for erratum


By Woody Paige
The Denver Post
Posted: 04/15/2011 01:00:00 AM MDT


In the tradition of the Roman alliance of Julius Caesar, Pompey the Great and Marcus Crassus, the Broncos' new triumvirate will confront its first true challenge of power in two weeks.


John Elway, John Fox and Brian Xanders feel a draft.


Elway has to prove he can achieve as a football executive what he did as a football player; Fox has to prove he again can be a winning NFL coach; and Xanders has to prove, given authority as general manager he didn't have in the previous regime, that he knows what he's doing.


The trio all equal, except as we learned from "Animal Farm," one is more equal than the other two can go safe with the second pick and select defensive tackle Marcell Dareus or cornerback Patrick Peterson, both of whom spent Wednesday at Dove Valley. Or they can take a risk and trade down in the first round and get perhaps a third second-round choice. Or, they can act weird and grab yet another quarterback.


They must choose wisely.


Truth is, the Broncos, with a football dictatorship, generally chose poorly overall in their drafts over the past decade.


As a point of reference, all 11 offensive starters for the world champion Packers were their own draft choices. Green Bay handpicked 17 of its 22 starters and nine reserves. The Packers' Super Bowl opponents, the Steelers, drafted 18 of their 22 starters.


Denver's triumvirate fully recognizes that this franchise must be supplemented and rebuilt primarily in the draft not with aging free agents, trades, smoke and mirrors.


Only three projected starters on defense D.J. Williams, Elvis Dumervil and Robert Ayers were drafted by the Broncos. Seven, or possibly eight, offensive starters (depending on the status of Tim Tebow) were taken in drafts by Mike Shanahan and Josh McDaniels, but there are serious questions about six, possibly seven. Four are offensive linemen Ryan Clady, Zane Beadles, J.D. Walton and Chris Kuper. (Another, tackle Ryan Harris, is in nomad land as a free agent.)


The others are fullback Spencer Larsen (drafted as a linebacker), wide receiver Eddie Royal and running back Knowshon Moreno.


The Broncos have only 20 players they drafted on the offseason roster. Only Dumervil and Clady have played in the Pro Bowl. (In the 2000s, the Broncos traded away four drafted players who have made the Pro Bowl Clinton Portis, Deltha O'Neal, Brandon Marshall and Jay Cutler.)


Only one player of 50 drafted by the Broncos from 2000 to 2005 remains on the team. Williams was picked in the first round of '04. Only four others (Clady, Dumervil, Kuper and Royal) are left from the Shanahan era. (Darrent Williams, their top pick in '05, was murdered Jan. 1, 2007.)


Shanahan's drafts from 2000 to 2008 were marred by too few picks in some drafts (only four choices in '07 and six in two other years) and too many mistakes: George Foster, Willie Middlebrooks and Jarvis Moss as first-rounders; Kenoy Kennedy, Paul Toviessi, Terry Pierce and Tim Crowder as second- rounders; and the infamous Maurice Clarett as a third- rounder.


McDaniels' two drafts can't be evaluated completely, but 13 of 19 picks are on the roster today. I wrote after his first draft that if his first two selections, Moreno and Ayers, didn't become immediate impact players, he wouldn't last beyond two seasons. Neither become an impact player, and McD didn't last two full seasons, for myriad reasons. Most coaches and executives with the organization later regretted both picks because Moreno turned out to be soft, mediocre, oft-injured and a nuisance in the locker room, and Ayers has been an average linebacker now switching to defensive end.


McDaniels traded or released 10 of Shanahan's picks, and traded or released five of his own




for the rest....http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_17851494?source=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dp-sports-broncos+%28Denver+Post%3A+Sports%3A+Broncos%29

epicSocialism4tw
04-16-2011, 06:29 AM
Recipe for immediate success:

DT
Go after and secure Brandon Mebane. Acquire another DT who fits Fox's plans...John Henderson is out there. Someone like him who can be rotated with other players could be helpful. Use the first second-rounder to select t he top DT on the board.

DE
Dumervil returns. Ayers is moved outside. The guy drafted at #2 occasionally pass rushes in the rotation.

LB
Draft Von Miller. Done.

S
Use 2b to draft the top safety on the board. Sign Tom Zibikowski or someone similar.

spdirty
04-16-2011, 07:06 AM
Im going back an forth between Miller/Dareus...or Fairley/Bowers after a trade down. Wish we could just trade the 2 pick to Detroit for Suh straight up. :(

tsiguy96
04-16-2011, 07:12 AM
cosell just said that the top 3 RBs this year are better prospects than moreno was, and none of them may go in the first round this year. that pick kind of makes me sad in retrospect.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-16-2011, 08:05 AM
Xanders will get the blame and the axe in the event of draftfail.

Lestat
04-16-2011, 08:42 AM
hopefully we can end up with some impact players for a long time. this draft cannot have any busts or it will set us back.

NUB
04-16-2011, 08:57 AM
Only one player of 50 drafted by the Broncos from 2000 to 2005 remains on the team.

This was eye-catching.

Tombstone RJ
04-16-2011, 09:26 AM
woodrow, again ahead of the curve with this article... not.

HAT
04-16-2011, 09:33 AM
Im going back an forth between Miller/Dareus...or Fairley/Bowers after a trade down. Wish we could just trade the 2 pick to Detroit for Suh straight up. :(

Haven't read the news much lately, eh? Bowers will be lucky to be taken in round 1.

Wes Mantooth
04-16-2011, 10:14 AM
Recipe for immediate success:

DT
Go after and secure Brandon Mebane. Acquire another DT who fits Fox's plans...John Henderson is out there. Someone like him who can be rotated with other players could be helpful. Use the first second-rounder to select t he top DT on the board.

DE
Dumervil returns. Ayers is moved outside. The guy drafted at #2 occasionally pass rushes in the rotation.

LB
Draft Von Miller. Done.

S
Use 2b to draft the top safety on the board. Sign Tom Zibikowski or someone similar.

Also, not sucking. Example: not letting Arizona's kicker beat you by himself. Literally.

JDB7821
04-16-2011, 10:43 AM
I follow the Broncos as much as possible, but can someone explain how Moreno has become a nuisance in the locker room? I never caught any news of that.

Cito Pelon
04-16-2011, 12:26 PM
There sure hasn't been a lot to brag about regarding Bronco drafts since 1990, actually.

We never really put together a core of good players from the drafts. We had some bigtime hits, but mostly the teams were put together with FA's and trades.

Draft hits since 1990:

Shannon Sharpe,1990, released to FA
Keith Traylor, 1991 (3rd rounder, but released after two years, came back in FA and went on to play 17 years in the NFL)
Mike Croel, 1991 (#4 overall pick. 20 sacks his first 3 yrs in the NFL. Short career)
Shane Dronett, 1992 2nd round, 44 sacks, 3 INT's, nine year career.
Jason Elam, 1993 3rd round
Tom Nalen, 1994 7th round
Terrell Davis, 1995
Tory James, 1996 2nd round, 39 INT's, 10 year NFL career, released to FA
John Mobley, 1996 #15 overall, I'll mention him as kind of good. 8 year career.
Trevor Pryce, 1997
Brian Griese, 1998 3rd round. You tell me if that's a hit, or not. 119 TD's, 99 INT's, 10 year career, cut.
Al Wilson, 1999, #31 overall, 5 INT's, 21 sacks, 7 year career.
Reggie Hayward, 2001, 3rd round, 39 sacks, released in FA
Clinton Portis, 2002, 2nd round, traded.
DJ Williams, 2004, #17 overall, solid but not spectacular.
Jay Cutler, 2006, pretty good, still has potential, traded.
Tony Scheffler, 2006, still has potential, traded.
Brandon Marshall, 2006, pretty good, still has potential, traded
Elvis Dumervil, 2006, pretty good, still has potential
Ryan Clady, 2008
Eddie Royal, 2008, maybe
Peyton Hillis, 2008
Moreno, 2009, maybe
Ayers, 2009, maybe

The 2010 draftees? Some of them look pretty good - Thomas, Tebow, Cox, Squid, Decker, Beadles, but hits we still don't know.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-16-2011, 01:49 PM
"Moreno turned out to be soft, mediocre, oft-injured and a nuisance in the locker room"

huh? Anyone know what 'drow is talking about?

Shananahan
04-16-2011, 02:01 PM
cosell just said that the top 3 RBs this year are better prospects than moreno was, and none of them may go in the first round this year. that pick kind of makes me sad in retrospect.
Hindsight is really helpful when you want to talk about prospects.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-16-2011, 03:49 PM
Hindsight is really helpful when you want to talk about prospects.

Yeah this is dumb. The Moreno pick was not criticized from a value standpoint at the time

Jay3
04-16-2011, 06:04 PM
I never heard that about Knowshon being a nuisance in the locker room.

I'm thinking he paper mache's the crapper or something. Maybe hogs the towels when they're fresh out of the dryer.

Broncos4Life
04-16-2011, 09:20 PM
cosell just said that the top 3 RBs this year are better prospects than moreno was, and none of them may go in the first round this year. that pick kind of makes me sad in retrospect.

That is pretty sad. Definitely wasn't worth the spot. Guess McD liked the way he hurdled players on youtube.....

TheReverend
04-16-2011, 09:41 PM
There sure hasn't been a lot to brag about regarding Bronco drafts since 1990, actually.

We never really put together a core of good players from the drafts. We had some bigtime hits, but mostly the teams were put together with FA's and trades.

Draft hits since 1990:

Shannon Sharpe,1990, released to FA
Keith Traylor, 1991 (3rd rounder, but released after two years, came back in FA and went on to play 17 years in the NFL)
Mike Croel, 1991 (#4 overall pick. 20 sacks his first 3 yrs in the NFL. Short career)
Shane Dronett, 1992 2nd round, 44 sacks, 3 INT's, nine year career.
Jason Elam, 1993 3rd round
Tom Nalen, 1994 7th round
Terrell Davis, 1995
Tory James, 1996 2nd round, 39 INT's, 10 year NFL career, released to FA
John Mobley, 1996 #15 overall, I'll mention him as kind of good. 8 year career.
Trevor Pryce, 1997
Brian Griese, 1998 3rd round. You tell me if that's a hit, or not. 119 TD's, 99 INT's, 10 year career, cut.
Al Wilson, 1999, #31 overall, 5 INT's, 21 sacks, 7 year career.
Reggie Hayward, 2001, 3rd round, 39 sacks, released in FA
Clinton Portis, 2002, 2nd round, traded.
DJ Williams, 2004, #17 overall, solid but not spectacular.
Jay Cutler, 2006, pretty good, still has potential, traded.
Tony Scheffler, 2006, still has potential, traded.
Brandon Marshall, 2006, pretty good, still has potential, traded
Elvis Dumervil, 2006, pretty good, still has potential
Ryan Clady, 2008
Eddie Royal, 2008, maybe
Peyton Hillis, 2008
Moreno, 2009, maybe
Ayers, 2009, maybe

The 2010 draftees? Some of them look pretty good - Thomas, Tebow, Cox, Squid, Decker, Beadles, but hits we still don't know.

It also doesn't hurt that this list is terrible and inconsistent...

I like how 2x all pro, 2x pro bowler Deltha O'Neal misses the list but Ayers and Moreno get maybes (and what is the logic by including a "maybe" anyway? On that "maybe" note, F'ing Tim Crowder is a starter for the Buccs, is that "maybe"?)...

I like how guys who had really strong careers like Dan Neil, Ben Hamilton, Cooper Carlisle aren't on the list, but Reggie Hayward does.

I like how you list last year's UDFA's but don't mention a guy like Matt Lepsis.

I like how Foxworth doesn't make the list aside from being a big dollar starter for the Ravens defense.

TheReverend
04-16-2011, 09:59 PM
Yeah this is dumb. The Moreno pick was not criticized from a value standpoint at the time

I don't personally recall him ever being rated as high as 12.

I tried looking back and I can't find him rated that high anywhere either.

Also, he's rated as the #2 back behind Beanie almost everywhere I look back to!

Walterfootball had him going at #26 to the Giants (behind Beanie) which sounds lower than I remember

http://walterfootball.com/draft2009.php

Mayock had him going 16 (Also behind Beanie):

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/04/25/mayock-unveils-mock-draft/

Cbssports draft subsection has him ranked behind Beanie:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2009

Nfldraftscout had him ranked behind Beanie:

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65960&draftyear=2009&genpos=

Kiper had him going 14 to the Saints here (literally the only place I could find him ranked above Beanie looking back), but he didn't crack McShay's top 16 so I have no idea where he had him going to:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/columns/story?id=3972427&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2fdraft09%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fid%3d3972 427

HAT
04-16-2011, 10:46 PM
I may be wrong Rev but I think Lelo was talking about the pick not being criticized around here or even by the analysts AFTER the pick....Not where he was mocked.

Wasn't the OM consensus at the time that Knowsh at #12 was okay since Raji was gone?

I seem to recall that most here wanted one pick on O and one on D and the feeling here and nationally was that KM wouldn't have gotten past the Chuggers at #16.

Even the people that wanted Orakpo at 12 conceded that if KM was the target then it needed to be 12 or never. Even though it didn't turn out that way, I think most felt at the time that Orakpo had a better chance of falling to 18 than Moreno.

In hindsight, Moreno wasn't worth #12 but let's not forget that the (seemingly) majority of 'Maners were plenty excited to be getting a shot at a 'premier' RB for a change after years of Shanny/Turner relying on mid-late rounders......Kind of like all the people clamoring for Dareus over Peterson or Miller this year because he's the 'premier' DT and Denver hasn't historically gone that route in round 1.

That's why draft day on the 'Mane is always epic....Most here would've melted down had Denver taken Clay Mathews at 12 because he wasn't mocked that high and "ZOMG the U$C linebackers are all gonna be busts!" :yayaya:

KipCorrington25
04-16-2011, 11:13 PM
I follow the Broncos as much as possible, but can someone explain how Moreno has become a nuisance in the locker room? I never caught any news of that.

I think because he was the 12th... let me repeat that, 12th overall selection and couldn't carry Olandis Gary's jock yet is a cocky little bitch that fumbles and is hurt all the time.

So it adds up. ROFL!

TheReverend
04-17-2011, 08:26 AM
I may be wrong Rev but I think Lelo was talking about the pick not being criticized around here or even by the analysts AFTER the pick....Not where he was mocked.

Wasn't the OM consensus at the time that Knowsh at #12 was okay since Raji was gone?

I seem to recall that most here wanted one pick on O and one on D and the feeling here and nationally was that KM wouldn't have gotten past the Chuggers at #16.

Even the people that wanted Orakpo at 12 conceded that if KM was the target then it needed to be 12 or never. Even though it didn't turn out that way, I think most felt at the time that Orakpo had a better chance of falling to 18 than Moreno.

In hindsight, Moreno wasn't worth #12 but let's not forget that the (seemingly) majority of 'Maners were plenty excited to be getting a shot at a 'premier' RB for a change after years of Shanny/Turner relying on mid-late rounders......Kind of like all the people clamoring for Dareus over Peterson or Miller this year because he's the 'premier' DT and Denver hasn't historically gone that route in round 1.

That's why draft day on the 'Mane is always epic....Most here would've melted down had Denver taken Clay Mathews at 12 because he wasn't mocked that high and "ZOMG the U$C linebackers are all gonna be busts!" :yayaya:

Man the defense would be SO much better off if we'd taken Clay at 12, Cushing at 18 and Rey with the Alphonso pick.

Cushing, DJ, Rey and Clay... that's a stacked ass group of LB'ers that Wink couldn't even have failed with.

Bronco Rob
04-17-2011, 06:54 PM
:sunshine:

tsiguy96
04-17-2011, 07:00 PM
I don't personally recall him ever being rated as high as 12.

I tried looking back and I can't find him rated that high anywhere either.

Also, he's rated as the #2 back behind Beanie almost everywhere I look back to!

Walterfootball had him going at #26 to the Giants (behind Beanie) which sounds lower than I remember

http://walterfootball.com/draft2009.php

Mayock had him going 16 (Also behind Beanie):

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/04/25/mayock-unveils-mock-draft/

Cbssports draft subsection has him ranked behind Beanie:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2009

Nfldraftscout had him ranked behind Beanie:

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65960&draftyear=2009&genpos=

Kiper had him going 14 to the Saints here (literally the only place I could find him ranked above Beanie looking back), but he didn't crack McShay's top 16 so I have no idea where he had him going to:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/columns/story?id=3972427&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2fdraft09%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fid%3d3972 427

to be fair, atleast him being picked ahead of wells can be justified now...

Missouribronc
04-17-2011, 07:56 PM
I think because he was the 12th... let me repeat that, 12th overall selection and couldn't carry Olandis Gary's jock yet is a cocky little b**** that fumbles and is hurt all the time.

So it adds up. ROFL!

Are you really this stupid?

Missouribronc
04-17-2011, 07:58 PM
In hindsight, Moreno wasn't worth #12

So what is the No. 12 pick worth?

A top-20 yard producer?

HAT
04-17-2011, 10:05 PM
So what is the No. 12 pick worth?

A top-20 yard producer?

I'm not following you MB.......I thought I made myself clear that most Bronco fans (including myself) & 'draft gurus' were okay with it at the time.

I'm simply saying that while he's not a bust, he certainly hasn't lived up to that lofty selection, IN HINDSIGHT. No biggie.....It is what it is.

My main point was that people have short memories around here when it comes to the draft. Let's not forget that people were falling all over themselves at the time that Moreno & Ayers were #'s 3 & 4 on Mayock's top 20.

I like Moreno a lot and am glad he's a Bronco.

HAT
04-17-2011, 10:07 PM
to be fair, atleast him being picked ahead of wells can be justified now...

Don't tell Lex that! :yayaya:

errand
04-18-2011, 04:58 AM
I follow the Broncos as much as possible, but can someone explain how Moreno has become a nuisance in the locker room? I never caught any news of that.

Numerous reasons my friend....(I'm actually demonstrating Woody's absurdity by being absurd myself)

[] He failed to rush for 100 yards in any game his rookie season while splitting carries and playing for a pass happy coach....just ask dragster69'shillis

[] His being much more talented caused his head coach to trade away Peyton Hillis, and we've all learned you simply cannot disrespect Peyton Hillis...at least not here on the mane.

[] his season averages of 11 starts.... 215-863-4.0-6 TD's rushing and 33-293-8.9-3 TD's receiving again while splitting carries is the equivalent of suck cuz it translates into 312-1255-4.0-9 TD's rushing and 48-426-8.9-4 TD's receiving for a full season of starts. And almost 1700 total yards and 13 TD's isn't good enough evidently...at least not to sports writers like Woody Paige who also thought Chris Simms was better choice as our starting QB ...i'm just saying

[] He could not make any holes open by himself running behind two rookies, a first year starter and a LT coming of major knee surgery, but hey! shouldn't we expect more out of the 12th overall pick?

[] He's a team first player....which is no way to build a team evidently. Just ask the mane.