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Bronco Rob
04-16-2011, 04:49 AM
Team needs: Denver Broncos


The Denver Broncos’ “leadership” under Josh McDaniels was so poor that owner Pat Bowlen had to fire the alleged offensive mastermind on December 6 of last season. (Bowlen did it on Twitter.)


Left behind was a depleted roster, and hired to replace McDaniels is ex-Panthers coach John Fox. Along with new V.P. of Player Personnel John Elway, Fox will attempt to reestablish a once-proud organization that devolved into a laughingstock under “McD.”


DT: Here’s how Denver’s defensive tackle depth chart reads: Free agent (possibly restricted) Ryan McBean, Kevin Vickerson, Louis Leonard, Mitch Unrein. How many of those guys have you heard of? They’ve combined for 4.5 career sacks, 3.5 of them from six-year veteran Vickerson. It’s easily the worst interior line in football, making Alabama’s Marcell Dareus the Broncos’ obvious choice at No. 2 overall. Value meets need there, to perfection.


LB: The Broncos need help throughout the front seven. D.J. Williams is their only surefire starting linebacker, probably on the weak side. Schematic shift from McDaniels’ old 3-4 to Fox’s 4-3 leaves an abundance of question marks. Is Wesley Woodyard (6-foot, 220) big enough to be an every-down strong-side linebacker? Can Mario Haggan man the middle after playing mostly outside linebacker in a 3-4 the past two seasons? The switch to a new defensive alignment, at least at first glance, has created even more problems.


DB: Denver’s cornerbacks are solid with newly re-signed Champ Bailey at left corner, and Andre’ Goodman battling promising if arrest-prone second-year player Perrish Cox on the right. But Brian Dawkins was one of the poorest coverage safeties in football last season, is entering his age-38 campaign, and has a $6 million salary. We’d have more faith in former second-round pick Darcel McBath as Dawkins’ replacement if McBath could stay off the shelf. To this point, he hasn’t.


OT: The Broncos have one of the league’s better young left tackles in Ryan Clady, and promising interior pieces in Zane Beadles, J.D. Walton, and Chris Kuper. They’re expected to part with free agent right tackle Ryan Harris, however, and replace him with a better run blocker on the strong side.


Overview: Fox and Elway have a hole-filled roster. They could also use upgrades at tight end, running back behind Knowshon Moreno, and arguably defensive end. A traditional, lead-blocking fullback is needed for Fox’s run-heavy philosophy.


And that’s exactly why the Broncos are smokescreening interest in quarterbacks. Elway and Fox realize that the only way teams trade up to No. 2 is if they need signal callers. Denver drafts directly ahead of a franchise quarterback-needy Bills team, and has nothing to lose by feigning fascination with the most important position in all of pro sports. The Broncos have a long, long way to go, and could use lots more picks.



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/14/team-needs-denver-broncos/

maven
04-16-2011, 05:13 AM
I still would have given him more than 1.5 seasons. John fox is who u replace him with? lol

Jesterhole
04-16-2011, 05:15 AM
Incoming 10 page thread defending McDaniels that will ultimately branch into anti-Shanahan or anti-Cutler.

tsiguy96
04-16-2011, 05:19 AM
Incoming 10 page thread defending McDaniels that will ultimately branch into anti-Shanahan or anti-Cutler.

on this forum, if you like mcdaniels, you immediately hate and disrespect shanahan and everything he has ever done.
:afro:

spdirty
04-16-2011, 06:41 AM
on this forum, if you like mcdaniels, you immediately hate and disrespect shanahan and everything he has ever done.
:afro:

After the complete and total destruction he has done to this roster one would almost be inclined to question whether a mcdaniels fan can also be a Broncos fan.

Kind of like I hate the Raiders so I hope Al gets 20 more years to run them. Or I wish Carl Peterson were still in charge of the Queefs. Raiders, Queefs, and Charger fans LOVE McDaniels.

tsiguy96
04-16-2011, 07:09 AM
After the complete and total destruction he has done to this roster one would almost be inclined to question whether a mcdaniels fan can also be a Broncos fan.

Kind of like I hate the Raiders so I hope Al gets 20 more years to run them. Or I wish Carl Peterson were still in charge of the Queefs. Raiders, Queefs, and Charger fans LOVE McDaniels.


no really need to get into this again, but the roster now isnt much better or worse than it was when he was signed on to the team.

Dedhed
04-16-2011, 07:16 AM
McDaniels Sucked overall.

Shanahan Sucked in the end.

Let's move on, shall we?

tsiguy96
04-16-2011, 07:17 AM
McDaniels Sucked overall.

Shanahan Sucked in the end.

Let's move on, shall we?

i still like mcdaniels, and there is no way to disagree with this.

Dedhed
04-16-2011, 07:25 AM
i still like mcdaniels, and there is no way to disagree with this.

Fine. You liking him doesn't chance the fact that his legacy in Denver will be one of utter suck.

Cito Pelon
04-16-2011, 07:30 AM
I still would have given him more than 1.5 seasons. John fox is who u replace him with? lol

Why? Most of the fans hated McD, most of the local media despised him, heck I believe even Bowlen despised him by the end. And I didn't see a lot of players shedding tears, either.

As for Fox, he has a good pedigree.

tsiguy96
04-16-2011, 07:43 AM
Fine. You liking him doesn't chance the fact that his legacy in Denver will be one of utter suck.

are you serious? read my post again, this time the whole thing, I AGREED WITH YOU

spdirty
04-16-2011, 07:47 AM
no really need to get into this again, but the roster now isnt much better or worse than it was when he was signed on to the team.

Thats total bull****, the '08 roster was much more talented and performed much better than the 2010 one, but no need to get into that again.

TheReverend
04-16-2011, 07:59 AM
no really need to get into this again, but the roster now isnt much better or worse than it was when he was signed on to the team.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah aha

tsiguy96
04-16-2011, 08:00 AM
Thats total bull****, the '08 roster was much more talented and performed much better than the 2010 one, but no need to get into that again.

thats true, they did.
talented though?

definitely dont have the time to do this debate again, and no one is ever, ever going to change their mind on this subject because they havent for the last 2 years.

TheReverend
04-16-2011, 08:13 AM
thats true, they did.
talented though?

definitely dont have the time to do this debate again, and no one is ever, ever going to change their mind on this subject because they havent for the last 2 years.

Name one position that got upgraded? Quite frankly, I'd say the only spot on the field we got better at was S. Maybe you can say RB, but he spent so much time on the bench it becomes a Ball/Buckhalter vs Hillis/Young/Pittman debate

The BEST players on the team are all Shanahan holdovers: Champ, Elvis, Clady, DJ. Though clearly NOT McD's fault, Elvis is coming off a significant injury so will probably be worse than post 2008 form, and all are 2 years older from having a ****ty coach waste their time.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-16-2011, 08:13 AM
How anyone can continue defending the worst coach in the history of the franchise is beyond me. They remind me of abused women who remain loyal to their abuser.

TheReverend
04-16-2011, 08:15 AM
How anyone can continue defending the worst coach in the history of the franchise is beyond me. They remind me of abused women who remain loyal to their abuser.

It's no big deal. As soon as someone posts differently on twitter, he'll change his "mind"

Lestat
04-16-2011, 08:38 AM
coaching wasn't the main issue with McDaniels. he can coach. he's just a painfully crappy GM & talent evaluator.

if he had a strong GM instead of having been given all that power he might still be the HC and we might not be picking #2 overall.
that said, he failed miserably at the helm over the last 20+ games or so.

Cito Pelon
04-16-2011, 08:45 AM
Name one position that got upgraded? Quite frankly, I'd say the only spot on the field we got better at was S. Maybe you can say RB, but he spent so much time on the bench it becomes a Ball/Buckhalter vs Hillis/Young/Pittman debate

The BEST players on the team are all Shanahan holdovers: Champ, Elvis, Clady, DJ. Though clearly NOT McD's fault, Elvis is coming off a significant injury so will probably be worse than post 2008 form, and all are 2 years older from having a ****ty coach waste their time.

Eh, you just named two, safety and (maybe) RB.

WR pops into mind right away. Thomas, Decker, Willis, those three might end up being a pretty solid corps to go along with the Shanny holdover Lloyd.

OL - Naturally, Beadles, Walton, Hochstein, Olsen have to pan out. But there's some room for optimism.

LB - no improvement there.

DE - Ayers, maybe McBean and Hunter.

DT - Bleh.

ST's - solid improvement with McBath, Bruton, Squid.

CB - Maybe better with Cox, Squid, Goodman. But Phonz drags it down some.

TE - no improvement.

QB - TBD.

tsiguy96
04-16-2011, 08:50 AM
Name one position that got upgraded? Quite frankly, I'd say the only spot on the field we got better at was S. Maybe you can say RB, but he spent so much time on the bench it becomes a Ball/Buckhalter vs Hillis/Young/Pittman debate

The BEST players on the team are all Shanahan holdovers: Champ, Elvis, Clady, DJ. Though clearly NOT McD's fault, Elvis is coming off a significant injury so will probably be worse than post 2008 form, and all are 2 years older from having a ****ty coach waste their time.

LB, RB, WR, S....

i think you missed hte part where i said the collective talent didnt change much, the play on the field did. i thought that was obvious, but apparently not. but like i said, this argument is pointless since its happened on this forum atleast 100x in the past 2 years, and no one is changing their mind.

TheReverend
04-16-2011, 08:54 AM
LB, RB, WR, S....

i think you missed hte part where i said the collective talent didnt change much, the play on the field did. i thought that was obvious, but apparently not. but like i said, this argument is pointless since its happened on this forum atleast 100x in the past 2 years, and no one is changing their mind.

LOLLOLLOL

Haggan and Woodyard, our only possible other 2 projected starters are the moment, are from the Shanahan era.

WR is just as ridiculous

tsiguy96
04-16-2011, 08:57 AM
LOLLOLLOL

LB still sucks now, i guess especially with a move back to 4-3 and ayers moving to DL its bad again. WR though, with thomas showing huge potential though prolly out for most of 2011 season, and lloyd blowing up, with willis, decker in back, its hard to not like this WR corp more than any this team has seen in quite a few years. TE is once again horrible however, so that drops value of recieving corps as a whole.

i think you are taking what i said wrong. i didnt say mcdaniels significantly upgraded or destroyed the roster, i said:

but the roster now isnt much better or worse than it was when he was signed on to the team.

that its not much different now in terms of collective talent, so saying he destroyed the team is silly, as is saying he made them world beaters.

TheReverend
04-16-2011, 09:01 AM
LB still sucks now, i guess especially with a move back to 4-3 and ayers moving to DL its bad again. WR though, with thomas showing huge potential though prolly out for most of 2011 season, and lloyd blowing up, with willis, decker in back, its hard to not like this WR corp more than any this team has seen in quite a few years. TE is once again horrible however, so that drops value of recieving corps as a whole.

i think you are taking what i said wrong. i didnt say mcdaniels significantly upgraded or destroyed the roster, i said:



that its not much different now in terms of collective talent, so saying he destroyed the team is silly, as is saying he made them world beaters.

I'll take Marshall, useful Royal, Stokely and Scheffler as a receiving option over Lloyd, Gaffney, Thomas on the bench, the poor version of Royal and Decker all day.

He removed two of our pro bowl players at premier positions for a load of draftpicks and freed up cap room from the pending contract extensions and replaced them with....?

Tombstone RJ
04-16-2011, 09:10 AM
[SIZE="5"][B]
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/14/team-needs-denver-broncos/

shocking!

HAT
04-16-2011, 09:22 AM
McDaniels Sucked overall.

Shanahan Sucked in the end.

Let's move on, shall we?

We did....To the coach of the team who finished with a worse record. Bowlen is a ****ing idiot for not giving McD (or any hire) 3 years.

Should of hired Koetter when they had the chance.

HAT
04-16-2011, 09:23 AM
no really need to get into this again, but the roster now isnt much better or worse than it was when he was signed on to the team.


Wrong.....It's way better.

TheReverend
04-16-2011, 09:25 AM
Wrong.....It's way better.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3130/bertstare.jpg

HAT
04-16-2011, 09:29 AM
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3130/bertstare.jpg

http://www.tremendousupsidepotential.com/assets_c/2009/10/cutler-frown-thumb-500x357-11023.jpg

broncosteven
04-16-2011, 09:50 AM
coaching wasn't the main issue with McDaniels. he can coach. he's just a painfully crappy GM & talent evaluator.

if he had a strong GM instead of having been given all that power he might still be the HC and we might not be picking #2 overall.
that said, he failed miserably at the helm over the last 20+ games or so.

You forgot how bad mCd was at gameplanning and motivating his team. Being forced to trade away a guy you traded up for in the draft a year later because you didn't know how to motivate him is something you expect from Al Davis.

broncosteven
04-16-2011, 09:54 AM
Wrong.....It's way better.

...and the 2010 record proved it!

Cito Pelon
04-16-2011, 09:56 AM
I'll take Marshall, useful Royal, Stokely and Scheffler as a receiving option over Lloyd, Gaffney, Thomas on the bench, the poor version of Royal and Decker all day.

He removed two of our pro bowl players at premier positions for a load of draftpicks and freed up cap room from the pending contract extensions and replaced them with....?

Well, some regret losing Marshall for 2 #2's, some don't.

Stokely? Had one more decent year in him, but was injured (again) in preseason and was released.

Scheffler? Good receiving TE, would be nice to not need another one in this draft.

We'll have to see how Thomas, Decker, Willis, Gaffney, Britt Davis pan out. Gaffney is a solid possession receiver. The other guys are young but have potential.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-16-2011, 10:00 AM
Wrong.....It's way better.

http://www.fanforhire.com/images/comical_ali.jpg

Cito Pelon
04-16-2011, 10:01 AM
How anyone can continue defending the worst coach in the history of the franchise is beyond me. They remind me of abused women who remain loyal to their abuser.

I don't see a lot of people defending McD. Depends on your definition of "defend", I guess. Trying to look for the bright side isn't necessarily "defending".

jhns
04-16-2011, 10:09 AM
McDaniels fans don't make sense.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-16-2011, 10:21 AM
coaching wasn't the main issue with McDaniels. he can coach. he's just a painfully crappy GM & talent evaluator.

if he had a strong GM instead of having been given all that power he might still be the HC and we might not be picking #2 overall.
that said, he failed miserably at the helm over the last 20+ games or so.

You are kidding yourself if you think McDaniels was just a shiatty GM.

TheReverend
04-16-2011, 10:29 AM
You are kidding yourself if you think McDaniels was just a shiatty GM.

Lol, na man.

We ended up with a much better roster after having him around.
And he was an awesome coach, he just got unlucky winning 3 games against the easiest schedule Denver's had in decades.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-16-2011, 10:36 AM
The inability to work with Mike Nolan is a prime example of why McDaniels was a shiatty head coach.

BroncoDoug
04-16-2011, 10:39 AM
It says the "leadership" was very poor, well that starts at the top, and nothing has changed there. So unless Bowlen fires himself there is still going to be poor leadership

OrangeSe7en
04-16-2011, 10:41 AM
McDaniels Sucked overall.

Shanahan Sucked in the end.

Let's move on, shall we?

If you wanted people to move on, you probably shouldn't have made the preceding comments that people might not agree with.

OrangeSe7en
04-16-2011, 10:42 AM
It says the "leadership" was very poor, well that starts at the top, and nothing has changed there. So unless Bowlen fires himself there is still going to be poor leadership

Yeah, Bowlen and Ellis shouldn't be given a free pass.

HAT
04-16-2011, 10:46 AM
...and the 2010 record proved it!

2010 records are meaningless.

Sincerely,
John Fox

Dr. Broncenstein
04-16-2011, 10:46 AM
It says the "leadership" was very poor, well that starts at the top, and nothing has changed there. So unless Bowlen fires himself there is still going to be poor leadership

Firing a HOF coach and admitting said coach had too much responsibility... then hiring a rookie head coach and giving him total control: This is what some people might call an irrational decision.

BroncoDoug
04-16-2011, 10:51 AM
Firing a HOF coach and admitting said coach had too much responsibility... then hiring a rookie head coach and giving him total control: This is what some people might call an irrational decision.

Exactly, then they are surprised, dismayed, and outraged when the whole thing blows up in our face, but hey, its all McD's fault. So we should just all move on....Uhh:oyvey:

HAT
04-16-2011, 11:09 AM
Denver had a coach who is in the hall of fame?

OrangeSe7en
04-16-2011, 11:12 AM
Denver had a coach who is in the hall of fame?

Shanahan belongs in the HOF. Don't be dense.

HAT
04-16-2011, 11:29 AM
Shanahan belongs in the HOF. Don't be dense.


...and the 2010 record proved it!

:wave:

HAT
04-16-2011, 11:29 AM
2010 records are meaningless.

Sincerely,
Mike 'I belong in the HOF' Shanahan

DrFate
04-16-2011, 11:30 AM
A third year of the McD regime would have likely ended in an 0-16 season. To say nothing of additional roster damage that would have required decades to correct.

I'm not sure the franchise could have survived a 3rd year.

OrangeSe7en
04-16-2011, 11:31 AM
:wave:

Im not sure what this means. Isnt every coach with multiple SBs in the HOF?

Hamrob
04-16-2011, 12:32 PM
Mike Shanahan
Dan Reaves
Wade Phillips

Josh McDaniels
This about sums it up for me. Josh McDaniels was and is a tool! If you let him off the hook for trading cutler...then, you have to hold him accountable for what he did with all of those draft picks. Go back and take a look at how you can miss on almost every selection...you'll find McD's picture. He was a joke as a HC and the Denver Broncos were a joke!

Thank God for Elway!

Blueflame
04-16-2011, 01:31 PM
You forgot how bad mCd was at gameplanning and motivating his team. Being forced to trade away a guy you traded up for in the draft a year later because you didn't know how to motivate him is something you expect from Al Davis.

The worst part of all? The scandal of Spygate II.... and still losing vs. 3 of the 4 NFC Worst teams.

Bowlen's biggest mistake wasn't necessarily hiring McDaniels... it was giving him way, way, way too much power and responsibility for a rookie HC to handle (he needed a genuine GM with the power to "veto" some of his stupidest "rookie mistakes").

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-16-2011, 01:34 PM
Wow, really? We're really going to do this again, complete with the SAME EXACT ARGUMENTS from both sides?

Good grief. Y'all need to find a hobby. It's beautiful out.

Blueflame
04-16-2011, 01:46 PM
Wow, really? We're really going to do this again, complete with the SAME EXACT ARGUMENTS from both sides?

Good grief. Y'all need to find a hobby. It's beautiful out.

No, it's not. It's maybe 50 degrees (if we're lucky) and raining. It's only "beautiful weather" if you happen to be a duck. :P

Punisher
04-16-2011, 01:51 PM
Pat Bowlen needs to fire himself

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-16-2011, 01:51 PM
No, it's not. It's maybe 50 degrees (if we're lucky) and raining. It's only "beautiful weather" if you happen to be a duck. :P

I AM a duck. Don't be so disrespectful.

Pretty nice in Denver. Cloudy, not much chance of rain though, and warm.

Rock Chalk
04-16-2011, 02:18 PM
I still would have given him more than 1.5 seasons. John fox is who u replace him with? lol

I would have, if the spygate II had not happened. Once that happened Iknew he was gone and, rightfully so. I really would have liked to see what he could have done with a healthy Dumervile and one more season of solidifying the team as a whole, but hey, it is what it is. He cheated and he is gone.

KipCorrington25
04-16-2011, 02:36 PM
I have nothing to add but I just want to say that I hated McCheat from about the first week he was here.

listopencil
04-16-2011, 04:05 PM
The inability to work with Mike Nolan is a prime example of why McDaniels was a shiatty head coach.


I agree.

listopencil
04-16-2011, 04:09 PM
The worst part of all? The scandal of Spygate II.... and still losing vs. 3 of the 4 NFC Worst teams.

Bowlen's biggest mistake wasn't necessarily hiring McDaniels... it was giving him way, way, way too much power and responsibility for a rookie HC to handle (he needed a genuine GM with the power to "veto" some of his stupidest "rookie mistakes").

Bowlen's legacy is giving too much power/authority to the HC position. He creates weak Front Offices. He did this with Reeves, (Phillips was a place holder) Shanny and McD. Hopefully Elway can balance this out.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
04-16-2011, 04:11 PM
Fine. You liking him doesn't chance the fact that his legacy in Denver will be one of utter suck.

Thank you! The voice of reason.

listopencil
04-16-2011, 04:11 PM
I'll even go so far as to say that there is a pattern of bringing in a guy with a good looking pedigree, letting him run things until the wheels fall off, then firing him. Lay this mess at Bowlen's feet and move on.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
04-16-2011, 04:13 PM
It says the "leadership" was very poor, well that starts at the top, and nothing has changed there. So unless Bowlen fires himself there is still going to be poor leadership

You must know that under Mr. Bowlen we've won 2 Superbowls, 5 AFC titles, and 3 HOFers.

listopencil
04-16-2011, 04:13 PM
You must know that under Mr. Bowlen we've won 2 Superbowls, 5 AFC titles, and 3 HOFers.


...and each of those coaches was fired.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
04-16-2011, 04:16 PM
...and each of those coaches was fired.

So was just about every other HC in the NFL. Tom Landry, Chuck Knolls(sp), Jimmy Johnson. Whats your point?

Edit:

Look, Mr. Bowlen is trying to follow a script here. Of all the franchises out there are a few that you can say have not multi-year success, but multi-decade success. Who are they and what do they do. Dallas and Pittsburg. They try to hang on to GOOD Coaches and get rid of the bad coaches.

WolfpackGuy
04-16-2011, 04:23 PM
The putz couldn't even cheat and beat a 1-6 team led by the immortal Troy Smith.

Does it really get any worse than that?

tsiguy96
04-16-2011, 04:24 PM
So was just about every other HC in the NFL. Tom Landry, Chuck Knolls(sp), Jimmy Johnson. Whats your point?

he has no point. you are supposed to let coaches coach FOREVER if they have ever had success in this league apparently.

WolfpackGuy
04-16-2011, 04:28 PM
Giving up 59 points in THREE QUARTERS to the damned Faid was pretty embarrassing too.

TDmvp
04-16-2011, 05:40 PM
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/8471/nottagainz.jpg

CEH
04-16-2011, 05:50 PM
Giving up 59 points in THREE QUARTERS to the damned Faid was pretty embarrassing too.

"I'm sorry Pat for this latest 59 point beat down by OAK"
3 weeks later

"I'm sorry Pat for Spygate II"

How many coaches actually apologize to their owner during the season let alone twice in one season. Grow a pair you little bitch.

HAT
04-16-2011, 06:00 PM
Fine. You liking him doesn't chance the fact that his legacy in Denver will be one of utter suck.

This will be his legacy in Denver.....

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/4569247968_a65f83f5dd.jpg

Blueflame
04-16-2011, 06:04 PM
The putz couldn't even cheat and beat a 1-6 team led by the immortal Troy Smith.

Does it really get any worse than that?

Yeah, it does actually get worse than that... by allowing the Spygate II scandal to happen (allowing himself to become the commonality between Spygate I and Spygate II), he effectively removed the onus (for Spygate I) from Belichick and the Pats. The stink of cheating will... for the foreseeable future... be firmly adhered to Josh McDaniels (fair or not). That's worse than any regular-season loss, even to a pathetic team.

BroncoMan4ever
04-16-2011, 06:04 PM
i still like mcdaniels, and there is no way to disagree with this.

i like him as an OC. he is like Wade Phillips or norv Turner in my opinion. a good to great coordinator, but not a guy you want to be the HC.

Rock Chalk
04-16-2011, 06:41 PM
This will be his legacy in Denver.....

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/4569247968_a65f83f5dd.jpg

Nice, his legacy will be off the team in 2 years.

Boomhauer
04-16-2011, 06:41 PM
Team needs: Denver Broncos

The Denver Broncos’ “leadership” under Josh McDaniels was so poor that owner Pat Bowlen had to fire the alleged offensive mastermind on December 6 of last season. (Bowlen did it on Twitter.)

Left behind was a depleted roster, and hired to replace McDaniels is ex-Panthers coach John Fox. Along with new V.P. of Player Personnel John Elway, Fox will attempt to reestablish a once-proud organization that devolved into a laughingstock under “McD.”

DT: Here’s how Denver’s defensive tackle depth chart reads: Free agent (possibly restricted) Ryan McBean, Kevin Vickerson, Louis Leonard, Mitch Unrein. How many of those guys have you heard of? They’ve combined for 4.5 career sacks, 3.5 of them from six-year veteran Vickerson. It’s easily the worst interior line in football, making Alabama’s Marcell Dareus the Broncos’ obvious choice at No. 2 overall. Value meets need there, to perfection.

LB: The Broncos need help throughout the front seven. D.J. Williams is their only surefire starting linebacker, probably on the weak side. Schematic shift from McDaniels’ old 3-4 to Fox’s 4-3 leaves an abundance of question marks. Is Wesley Woodyard (6-foot, 220) big enough to be an every-down strong-side linebacker? Can Mario Haggan man the middle after playing mostly outside linebacker in a 3-4 the past two seasons? The switch to a new defensive alignment, at least at first glance, has created even more problems.

DB: Denver’s cornerbacks are solid with newly re-signed Champ Bailey at left corner, and Andre’ Goodman battling promising if arrest-prone second-year player Perrish Cox on the right. But Brian Dawkins was one of the poorest coverage safeties in football last season, is entering his age-38 campaign, and has a $6 million salary. We’d have more faith in former second-round pick Darcel McBath as Dawkins’ replacement if McBath could stay off the shelf. To this point, he hasn’t.

OT: The Broncos have one of the league’s better young left tackles in Ryan Clady, and promising interior pieces in Zane Beadles, J.D. Walton, and Chris Kuper. They’re expected to part with free agent right tackle Ryan Harris, however, and replace him with a better run blocker on the strong side.

Overview: Fox and Elway have a hole-filled roster. They could also use upgrades at tight end, running back behind Knowshon Moreno, and arguably defensive end. A traditional, lead-blocking fullback is needed for Fox’s run-heavy philosophy.

And that’s exactly why the Broncos are smokescreening interest in quarterbacks. Elway and Fox realize that the only way teams trade up to No. 2 is if they need signal callers. Denver drafts directly ahead of a franchise quarterback-needy Bills team, and has nothing to lose by feigning fascination with the most important position in all of pro sports. The Broncos have a long, long way to go, and could use lots more picks.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/14/team-needs-denver-broncos/

.

Archer81
04-16-2011, 06:49 PM
So...

Anyone play any good video games lately?

:Broncos:

OrangeSe7en
04-16-2011, 07:11 PM
This will be his legacy in Denver.....

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/4569247968_a65f83f5dd.jpg

Wrong once again. For him to get credit for Tebow, he should have played him. Instead, McDaniels called the idea of playing him "ridiculous". Its ironic.

listopencil
04-16-2011, 07:13 PM
he has no point. you are supposed to let coaches coach FOREVER if they have ever had success in this league apparently.

You have no brain. Bowlen has a tendency to hire a Head Coach and just let him run the franchise. Bowlen's ownership style creates weak Front Offices. The hope is that the current Front Office is a sign that Bowlen has changed. By the way...one plus one equals two, and A is the first letter of our alphabet. Anything else you need explained to you Sparky?

HAT
04-16-2011, 07:28 PM
Wrong once again. For him to get credit for Tebow, he should have played him. Instead, McDaniels called the idea of playing him "ridiculous". Its ironic.

http://images2.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/6532763/Not-sure-if-serious.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=Patrick

We've been over this.....

The plan all along was to pump up Orton's stats for trade value while still giving the vets & fans the 'win now' lip service (even though they weren't). And then unleash Tebow to start 2011....With 2 full off-seasons of development and as an unknown commodity to the rest of the league.

There's nothing ironic about it.

broncosteven
04-16-2011, 07:55 PM
http://images2.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/6532763/Not-sure-if-serious.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=Patrick

We've been over this.....

The plan all along was to pump up Orton's stats for trade value while still giving the vets & fans the 'win now' lip service (even though they weren't). And then unleash Tebow to start 2011....With 2 full off-seasons of development and as an unknown commodity to the rest of the league.

There's nothing ironic about it.

Was the other part of the plan to get the #2 overall pick in the draft?

HAT
04-16-2011, 08:02 PM
Was the other part of the plan to get the #2 overall pick in the draft?

What does the 2010 W/L record have to do with the QB road map or the decision to draft Tebow last spring?

Bronco Rob
04-16-2011, 08:39 PM
Incoming 10 page thread defending McDaniels that will ultimately branch into anti-Shanahan or anti-Cutler.


Holy Spot on Batman!




;)

HAT
04-16-2011, 08:46 PM
Incoming 10 page thread defending McDaniels that will ultimately branch into anti-Shanahan or anti-Cutler.

^5

McD's 2010 record: .250

Shanahan, the 'future HOF'er' and Fox, the 'saviour' combined 2010 record: .250

Archer81
04-16-2011, 09:00 PM
You all forced me to this...


http://tinyurl.com/3f56rm4


:Broncos:

TheReverend
04-16-2011, 09:22 PM
^5

McD's 2010 record: .250

Shanahan, the 'future HOF'er' and Fox, the 'saviour' combined 2010 record: .250

Strong math skills...

McD's 2010 record was .23 bro... Studesville brought the average up with his .333

Dr. Broncenstein
04-16-2011, 09:27 PM
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5179/mcdanielsstressed.gif

HAT
04-16-2011, 09:40 PM
Strong math skills...

McD's 2010 record was .23 bro... Studesville brought the average up with his .333

Strong memory skills....
McD 3-9
Studes 1-3


Been boozing tonight Rev? :griese:

TheReverend
04-16-2011, 10:02 PM
Strong memory skills....
McD 3-9
Studes 1-3


Been boozing tonight Rev? :griese:

No booze, but **** me! You're totally right, sorry. I accredited that abortion vs AZ to him because Orton sucks so hard I naturally associated it with McDaniels.

HAT
04-16-2011, 10:04 PM
No booze, but **** me! You're totally right, sorry. I accredited that abortion vs AZ to him because Orton sucks so hard I naturally associated it with McDaniels.


^5

gunns
04-16-2011, 11:15 PM
You all forced me to this...


http://tinyurl.com/3f56rm4


:Broncos:

Anybody checked hell lately for icicles?

SoCalBronco
04-16-2011, 11:37 PM
Bowlen is to blame for almost all of our present state of suckery. Bowlen was the one who had penny pinched throughout the 2000s to the extent of ranking about 18.75 in the league (below average) in actual dollars spent, yet he had the audacity to complain that we went .500 three years in a row? We overperformed the investment, so what's the problem, old man?

He fired the greatest coach we ever had and will ever have, when he could have simply gotten rid of the DC through his inherent power as owner. He promised the fans a real division of power between HC and GM and lied. He rewarded a long time good (at least offensively) personnel guy by firing him. He failed to get off his lazy worthless ass and walk 100 feet to try and bring about a detente between his HC and QB and then later cried crocodile tears about being offended when his QB wouldnt pick up the phone on him. How bout you get off your ****ing ass and walk a couple rooms when he's there you piece of ****? This is on you.

Josh is a talented passing game coach. He could have succeeded here with a formidable counterweight in the FO and a real support structure around him, not dickless wonders more concerned about getting breadsticks.

Bowlen is supposedly and allegedly this mature, successful, wise businessman with common sense and understanding of people and the big picture, but he allowed himself to be completely comandeered by deceitful and incompetent scumbags like Joe Ellis. This organization is presently a joke BECAUSE of the old man's constant bad decisions. I'm glad he's now hiding in the shadows behind other people in shame, because I don't want to see his ****ing face ever again. We had 3 coaches turn down the oppurtunity to be interviewed. We're now the ****ing Lions because of you, old man. And you continue to treat the fans like ****......why the F do Ellis and Xanders still have jobs after this cluster****?

Its ALL on you, Pat.

Boomhauer
04-17-2011, 02:16 AM
You all forced me to this...
http://tinyurl.com/3f56rm4
:Broncos:

.. one up ..
http://wind.activetools.si/bomboncki/December_2001/Elsa_Benitez-26.jpg

Dean
04-17-2011, 05:25 AM
Bowlen is to blame for almost all of our present state of suckery. Bowlen was the one who had penny pinched throughout the 2000s to the extent of ranking about 18.75 in the league (below average) in actual dollars spent, yet he had the audacity to complain that we went .500 three years in a row? We overperformed the investment, so what's the problem, old man?

He fired the greatest coach we ever had and will ever have, when he could have simply gotten rid of the DC through his inherent power as owner. He promised the fans a real division of power between HC and GM and lied. He rewarded a long time good (at least offensively) personnel guy by firing him. He failed to get off his lazy worthless ass and walk 100 feet to try and bring about a detente between his HC and QB and then later cried crocodile tears about being offended when his QB wouldnt pick up the phone on him. How bout you get off your ****ing ass and walk a couple rooms when he's there you piece of ****? This is on you.

Josh is a talented passing game coach. HDon't hold back. e could have succeeded here with a formidable counterweight in the FO and a real support structure around him, not dickless wonders more concerned about getting breadsticks.

Bowlen is supposedly and allegedly this mature, successful, wise businessman with common sense and understanding of people and the big picture, but he allowed himself to be completely comandeered by deceitful and incompetent scumbags like Joe Ellis. This organization is presently a joke BECAUSE of the old man's constant bad decisions. I'm glad he's now hiding in the shadows behind other people in shame, because I don't want to see his ****ing face ever again. We had 3 coaches turn down the oppurtunity to be interviewed. We're now the ****ing Lions because of you, old man. And you continue to treat the fans like ****......why the F do Ellis and Xanders still have jobs after this cluster****?

Its ALL on you, Pat.

Quit all this political correctness and tell us how you really feel.;)

Dedhed
04-17-2011, 07:03 AM
This will be his legacy in Denver.....

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/4569247968_a65f83f5dd.jpg
I don't think so. If Tebow goes onto greatness, which I believe, McDaniels role in bringing him to Denver will be, for the most part, forgotten. And like people are already saying, he'll be the guy who didn't start Tebow, despite the fact that it would have been unbelievably dumb to have done so early in the season.

If Tebow flops, however, that will certainly be added to the McDaniels legacy of suck.

TheReverend
04-17-2011, 08:13 AM
I don't think so. If Tebow goes onto greatness, which I believe, McDaniels role in bringing him to Denver will be, for the most part, forgotten. And like people are already saying, he'll be the guy who didn't start Tebow, despite the fact that it would have been unbelievably dumb to have done so early in the season.

If Tebow flops, however, that will certainly be added to the McDaniels legacy of suck.

Yup, with Tebow starting all year he might've only won 3 games! Ha!

mustangtoby
04-17-2011, 09:04 AM
Yup, with Tebow starting all year he might've only won 3 games! Ha!

Very good point. He might've wone 3 games, and would have had the "rookie qb" excuse. Thank god his dumb ass is gone!

broncocalijohn
04-17-2011, 10:51 AM
I still would have given him more than 1.5 seasons. John fox is who u replace him with? lol

If you think that is LOL, then that should tell you how bad McD was!

BroncoDoug
04-17-2011, 10:53 AM
Bowlen is to blame for almost all of our present state of suckery. Bowlen was the one who had penny pinched throughout the 2000s to the extent of ranking about 18.75 in the league (below average) in actual dollars spent, yet he had the audacity to complain that we went .500 three years in a row? We overperformed the investment, so what's the problem, old man?

He fired the greatest coach we ever had and will ever have, when he could have simply gotten rid of the DC through his inherent power as owner. He promised the fans a real division of power between HC and GM and lied. He rewarded a long time good (at least offensively) personnel guy by firing him. He failed to get off his lazy worthless ass and walk 100 feet to try and bring about a detente between his HC and QB and then later cried crocodile tears about being offended when his QB wouldnt pick up the phone on him. How bout you get off your ****ing ass and walk a couple rooms when he's there you piece of ****? This is on you.

Josh is a talented passing game coach. He could have succeeded here with a formidable counterweight in the FO and a real support structure around him, not dickless wonders more concerned about getting breadsticks.

Bowlen is supposedly and allegedly this mature, successful, wise businessman with common sense and understanding of people and the big picture, but he allowed himself to be completely comandeered by deceitful and incompetent scumbags like Joe Ellis. This organization is presently a joke BECAUSE of the old man's constant bad decisions. I'm glad he's now hiding in the shadows behind other people in shame, because I don't want to see his ****ing face ever again. We had 3 coaches turn down the oppurtunity to be interviewed. We're now the ****ing Lions because of you, old man. And you continue to treat the fans like ****......why the F do Ellis and Xanders still have jobs after this cluster****?

Its ALL on you, Pat.

Sense, this makes it.

spdirty
04-17-2011, 11:08 AM
coaching wasn't the main issue with McDaniels. he can coach. he's just a painfully crappy GM & talent evaluator.

if he had a strong GM instead of having been given all that power he might still be the HC and we might not be picking #2 overall.
that said, he failed miserably at the helm over the last 20+ games or so.

players dont quit on a great, or even good coach.

broncocalijohn
04-17-2011, 09:41 PM
coaching wasn't the main issue with McDaniels. he can coach. he's just a painfully crappy GM & talent evaluator.

if he had a strong GM instead of having been given all that power he might still be the HC and we might not be picking #2 overall.
that said, he failed miserably at the helm over the last 20+ games or so.

You are correct. When you **** up the GM part as bad as he did, you forget that he sucked too many times as a play maker. It only took a few screw ups to F up a game. He managed to do it game after game during the 2010 season. If you can step back a few steps, you can see the whole picture of one bad coach for less than 2 years.

Taco John
04-17-2011, 11:43 PM
I don't think so. If Tebow goes onto greatness, which I believe, McDaniels role in bringing him to Denver will be, for the most part, forgotten. And like people are already saying, he'll be the guy who didn't start Tebow, despite the fact that it would have been unbelievably dumb to have done so early in the season.

If Tebow flops, however, that will certainly be added to the McDaniels legacy of suck.

Pretty well agree with this. McD's legacy will be as probably the most hated figure in Broncos history outside of Al Davis.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-17-2011, 11:45 PM
Pretty well agree with this. McD's legacy will be as probably the most hated figure in Broncos history outside of Al Davis.

I hated Dale Carter and Travis Henry just a little bit worse. And for some reason, I kind of love Al Davis and hope he lives forever.

errand
04-18-2011, 03:57 AM
I still would have given him more than 1.5 seasons. John fox is who u replace him with? lol

I think it was ignorant to give up on Josh after less than two seasons as well, even more ignorant to pay 3 head coaches salaries for '11, but then again it's not my decision to make. i truly believe that even if Josh was in over his head as a head coach, the man was head and shoulders above many coaching QB's, and I believe he would have made Tebow a high quality QB......

...now having said that, John Fox is a pretty damn good coach in his own right. His teams are usually prepared and play hard, and he's good at getting the most out of his players.

For all of Josh's faults this team was undone by a defense that couldn't stop you, me and 9 other guys from scoring 30 points a game...and John Fox can fix that, knows how to fix it, and will fix. We might not be an exciting offensive team, but we'll win more because our opponents will be scoring less.

errand
04-18-2011, 04:15 AM
You must know that under Mr. Bowlen we've won 2 Superbowls, 5 AFC titles, and 3 HOFers.

I know right? amazing how only head coaches that have those laurels are lauded on here as Hall of Fame material...owners than write the checks for and hired that coach? Not so much.....

Pat Bowlen has done more for the denver community than just own the Broncos....I'll forgive him because he tried to catch lightning in a bottle again with McDaniels.

Sorry he saw a bit of shanahan in the guy.....and hell josh was alot like Mike in many ways....

[] he never fixed a sorry DL....

[] was good at coaching QB's...

[] drafted a potential franchise QB instead of fixing a sieve for a defense...

[] made questionable personnel decisions....

[] whiffed on some high picks....

[] and basically was a laughingstock when he was finally gone

2KBack
04-18-2011, 04:19 AM
I know right? amazing how only head coaches that have those laurels are lauded on here as Hall of Fame material...owners than write the checks for and hired that coach? Not so much.....

Pat Bowlen has done more for the denver community than just own the Broncos....I'll forgive him because he tried to catch lightning in a bottle again with McDaniels.

Sorry he saw a bit of shanahan in the guy.....and hell josh was alot like Mike in many ways....

[] he never fixed a sorry DL....

[] was good at coaching QB's...

[] drafted a potential franchise QB instead of fixing a sieve for a defense...

[] made questionable personnel decisions....

[] whiffed on some high picks....

[] and basically was a laughingstock when he was finally gone

McD absolutely was lightening in a bottle. He just burned out after 6 games instead of like 6 seasons.

errand
04-18-2011, 04:19 AM
...and each of those coaches was fired.

Dan Reeves and Mike Shanahan deserved the boot since they're last 3 seasons saw the broncos finish at .500. Was time to move on from Dan despite his success in Denver, and it was time to move on from Mike despite his too.

jhns
04-18-2011, 06:04 AM
It is still funny that people actually liked and supported what McDaniels did here. I mean, Raider fans loved it and I can see why. Why do some of you hate this franchise like Raider fans?

DrFate
04-18-2011, 06:13 AM
I mean, Raider fans loved it and I can see why. Why do some of you hate this franchise like Raider fans?

I see a quote like "I think it was ignorant to give up on Josh after less than two seasons as well" and I'm not sure what else these fans want. Suppose McDaniels exposed himself at midfield on national TV - would that be enough? If he set the building on fire? If he ran over Bowlen with his Land Rover? If you don't draw the line at a complete trainwreck and the worst season in franchise history, coupled with Spygate II - where DO you draw the line?

HAT
04-18-2011, 07:06 AM
I see a quote like "I think it was ignorant to give up on Josh after less than two seasons as well" and I'm not sure what else these fans want. Suppose McDaniels exposed himself at midfield on national TV - would that be enough? If he set the building on fire? If he ran over Bowlen with his Land Rover? If you don't draw the line at a complete trainwreck and the worst season in franchise history, coupled with Spygate II - where DO you draw the line?

Three seasons. ^5

DrFate
04-18-2011, 07:20 AM
Three seasons. ^5

As I've said in other threads Spiccoli - that 3rd season would have ended 0-16 with any remaining talent having been purged from the roster.

(but nice response)

Hilarious!

errand
04-18-2011, 08:31 AM
I see a quote like "I think it was ignorant to give up on Josh after less than two seasons as well" and I'm not sure what else these fans want. Suppose McDaniels exposed himself at midfield on national TV - would that be enough? If he set the building on fire? If he ran over Bowlen with his Land Rover? If you don't draw the line at a complete trainwreck and the worst season in franchise history, coupled with Spygate II - where DO you draw the line?


You're just being stupid now.....

I don't think even mike shanahan could get away with exposing himself at midfield.....or setting a fire, or running over his boss with VW, let alone a land rover.

Several reasons why...

[] You send a message to potential coaching candidates that you won't have any patience. I'm wondering if John Fox hasn't wondered if he's on just as short a leash....which might cause him to gamble on some "potentially" great player in the draft vs more safer not as great player that could become a building block for the future

[] We were already paying mike for '11, and the season was in jeopardy anyways with a looming lockout, so why pay for three coaches for season that might not even be played.....then again it's not my decision or my money

[] Josh had cleared the locker room of most of the malcontents and 'me-first" players...something that had mike done it years earlier, we wouldn't even be debating this sh*t. guys like Orton, Tebow, Lloyd, Gaffney, Goodman, Hagan, etc. are solid players who won't worry about flashy stats more than winning games

[] Josh infused more youth and speed on this team, and while it's too early to tell how his draft picks will turn out the future isn't bleak with young guys like Moreno, Tebow, Beadles, and Walton that seem to have good futures in front of them


[] I think josh's main problem was that he was so caught up in keeping his wunderkind label he forgot to build a good to great defense that could keep games close until his offense could get untracked.

I've said it before...he may have been in over his head....doesn't mean he couldn't have learned from his mistakes and made more progress in year three...especially with Xanders as GM and Elway on board... if he didn't, then he'd have been gone anyways....oh, and if he'd have finished 0-16...we'd be first in line to get that Luck kid outta Stanford

DrFate
04-18-2011, 10:11 AM
You're just being stupid now.....


Hmmm... Very compelling opening statement...


[] You send a message to potential coaching candidates that you won't have any patience. I'm wondering if John Fox hasn't wondered if he's on just as short a leash....which might cause him to gamble on some "potentially" great player in the draft vs more safer not as great player that could become a building block for the future


Patience assumes you are going through hard times but you see better times ahead. From where I sit, it's hard to find ANYTHING McDaniels did that wouldn't be undone if possible. From running off talented players to butting heads with experienced coaching staff - it was a comedy of errors from day one until the day he left.


[] We were already paying mike for '11, and the season was in jeopardy anyways with a looming lockout, so why pay for three coaches for season that might not even be played.....then again it's not my decision or my money


I don't care about Bowlen's wallet. As a fan, it makes me happier that he spent more money to try to improve the franchise.


[] Josh had cleared the locker room of most of the malcontents and 'me-first" players...something that had mike done it years earlier, we wouldn't even be debating this sh*t. guys like Orton, Tebow, Lloyd, Gaffney, Goodman, Hagan, etc. are solid players who won't worry about flashy stats more than winning games


Replacing talented players with mediocre players, you mean. I realize that Cutler and Marshall aren't going to win popularity contests in Denver, but it's a downgrade at every position.


[] Josh infused more youth and speed on this team, and while it's too early to tell how his draft picks will turn out the future isn't bleak with young guys like Moreno, Tebow, Beadles, and Walton that seem to have good futures in front of them


The results are pretty clear. Worst season in franchise history - so much for 'youth and speed'. Moreno is a bust, Tebow is an enormous question mark, and I don't see the 'good futures' of the Oline (which was a strength when McDaniels was hired and is seen as a weakness now)



I've said it before...he may have been in over his head....doesn't mean he couldn't have learned from his mistakes and made more progress in year three...especially with Xanders as GM and Elway on board... if he didn't, then he'd have been gone anyways....oh, and if he'd have finished 0-16...we'd be first in line to get that Luck kid outta Stanford

So keep the moron on the payroll and hope for the #1 pick? I'm not sure I can go along with that rationale. He was given more than enough time to demonstrate he'll never succeed in the NFL as a head coach.

If McDaniels looked like he was learning and the team was improving, I'd have been for a 3rd year. I didn't see it. The team was circling the drain.

24champ
04-18-2011, 03:09 PM
Bowlen is to blame for almost all of our present state of suckery. Bowlen was the one who had penny pinched throughout the 2000s to the extent of ranking about 18.75 in the league (below average) in actual dollars spent, yet he had the audacity to complain that we went .500 three years in a row? We overperformed the investment, so what's the problem, old man?

He fired the greatest coach we ever had and will ever have, when he could have simply gotten rid of the DC through his inherent power as owner. He promised the fans a real division of power between HC and GM and lied. He rewarded a long time good (at least offensively) personnel guy by firing him. He failed to get off his lazy worthless ass and walk 100 feet to try and bring about a detente between his HC and QB and then later cried crocodile tears about being offended when his QB wouldnt pick up the phone on him. How bout you get off your ****ing ass and walk a couple rooms when he's there you piece of ****? This is on you.

Josh is a talented passing game coach. He could have succeeded here with a formidable counterweight in the FO and a real support structure around him, not dickless wonders more concerned about getting breadsticks.

Bowlen is supposedly and allegedly this mature, successful, wise businessman with common sense and understanding of people and the big picture, but he allowed himself to be completely comandeered by deceitful and incompetent scumbags like Joe Ellis. This organization is presently a joke BECAUSE of the old man's constant bad decisions. I'm glad he's now hiding in the shadows behind other people in shame, because I don't want to see his ****ing face ever again. We had 3 coaches turn down the oppurtunity to be interviewed. We're now the ****ing Lions because of you, old man. And you continue to treat the fans like ****......why the F do Ellis and Xanders still have jobs after this cluster****?

Its ALL on you, Pat.

Good question...why do Xanders and Ellis still have jobs? Simple answer to that is because they know how to handle the finances and keep it profitable for his investors. Xanders is a capologist and contract negotiator, and Ellis brought him on board. Ellis is Bowlen's right hand man, and is the de facto CEO of the Franchise. Bowlen is off in Hawaii for the majority of the time, he's scaled back his involvement in the NFL and with the Broncos. It's no surprise that Bowlen, Ellis, Xanders take zero responsibility of what has happened in the past few years.

When you think about it, it is a shrewd PR move. Dump it all on McDaniels and then later on bring Elway in as Executive VP of Football operations. A guy with no Front Office experience, and is just going to wing it. Bowlen needed Elway to restore his own credibility with the fans. It's good PR, Elway talks up Xanders, naturally the fans lap it up. Then to hire John Fox, who does bring experience, but nobody mentions he failed to do any better than McDaniels this past season. Elway talks up John Fox like he was the choice all along. Which he wasn't, we didn't get our #1 man, which was Harbaugh. Bowlen was completely out priced in that race. (Hey Ellis, money isn't an issue eh? Oops.)

I am grateful for Bowlen's contribution to the Broncos, bringing us all those Super Bowl appearances, and 2 Super Bowl victories that was long overdue for so many fans. He had a great run then, but I think it is time for him to step aside, sell the franchise Pat. This franchise has been on a sharp decline for some time, and its all happening under Bowlen's watch. We haven't been to the ****ing playoffs since 2005. That's the second longest playoff drought since the merger in the franchises history. The fans are starving for some success. We need new leadership and a new product on the field.

It all feels cyclical, same thing every year. We'll read later on about how Fox is going to let the D-line loose and the QB debates rages on. The product is getting stale, tired of Pat and co. crapping in a box and handing it off to us fans. I don't want to read another letter about how Pat and Co. are "working hard" and "committed to building a championship team". The next letter should be Bowlen thanking the fans and wishing the new incoming owner success.

Blueflame
04-18-2011, 04:09 PM
Three seasons. ^5

Spygate II required someone (the head guy) to be held responsible. Bowlen would have been widely perceived as "condoning the incident" if he'd given McDaniels any more time than he did. Strictly from a PR standpoint... the firing had to be done and in reality would have been better 3 weeks sooner.

Willynowei
04-18-2011, 04:11 PM
seriously, I can't believe the amount of people that are defending McD. Shanahan got fired after a year where we were decimated with injuries and missed the playoffs by one game. The Broncos today are drafting second. SECOND, when has that ever happened?

misturanderson
04-18-2011, 05:36 PM
seriously, I can't believe the amount of people that are defending McD. Shanahan got fired after a year where we were decimated with injuries and missed the playoffs by one game. The Broncos today are drafting second. SECOND, when has that ever happened?

You don't think that last year's team was just a little more decimated by injuries than 2008, where there were essentially no injuries outside of the RB and LB positions (both of which had backups that were more talented than the starters Shanny had assigned at those positions)?

Steve Prefontaine
04-18-2011, 05:48 PM
You don't think that last year's team was just a little more decimated by injuries than 2008, where there were essentially no injuries outside of the RB and LB positions (both of which had backups that were more talented than the starters Shanny had assigned at those positions)?

Champ Bailey? I believe he missed half the 2008 season.

misturanderson
04-18-2011, 06:00 PM
Champ Bailey? I believe he missed half the 2008 season.

He missed 7 games, fair enough.

Last year we had injuries to multiple RBs including the top 2 on the depth chart (3 if you count White's pre-season injury), most of the OL, multiple LBs including the league's best pass rusher (all 16 games) and our other starting OLB for half the season, both starting CBs, both starting and backup safeties, the starting QB, our first draft pick and potential starter at WR, just to name a few.

I'm sure there were more, but it's pretty hard to argue that 2008 had a worse string of injuries than last year. Losing Webster, Niko, Boss Bailey, Selvin Young, Andre Hall, 3 other useless RBs and the only three that should have even been starters in the first place in Hillis, DJ (who was outplayed by Woodyard during his absence) and Champ is not quite equivalent to losing almost every defensive starter for multiple games, having almost every OL player injured for most of training camp and part of the season and losing a similar number of offensive skill position players to 2008's "decimation".

Plus Orton's injury (and 2 different coach's refusal to bench him) pretty much single-handedly cost us 2 games.

**** we even lost Prater for multiple games last year.

jhns
04-18-2011, 08:41 PM
There were more injuries in 2008 than last season.

jutang
04-18-2011, 08:47 PM
2008 Hillis doesn't get injured, Broncos make the playoffs and Shanahan gets a few more yrs to put together a defense.

2010 Dumervil doesn't get injured, I'm guess the Broncos would have gotten a couple more wins (Jets game comes to mind) and McD probably gets another yr.

TheReverend
04-18-2011, 08:56 PM
He missed 7 games, fair enough.

Last year we had injuries to multiple RBs including the top 2 on the depth chart (3 if you count White's pre-season injury),

Knowshon played in 13 games and Buck 15

most of the OL,

Complete bull****.

Clady, Beadles and Walton played in every game (And Clady's looked worse as we've shifted away from the ZBS, so dont give me this "but he missed TC ****). Kuper missed a total of ONE game, and Harris missed 6, but was only on the injury report for 3.

So take that **** up with Josh McDumb**** and his horrid position coach Barone.

multiple LBs including the league's best pass rusher (all 16 games)

DJ and Haggan played every game. Judging from the ridiculous success of former UDFA and first time starter Cameron Wake, Elvis's sack leading season was more a product of Nolan.

and our other starting OLB for half the season,

5 games is now "half the season"?

both starting CBs

Champ missed A game and Goodman sucks. Cox was an upgrade.

both starting and backup safeties,

Actually Hill and Bruton played in every single game...

the starting QB,

ROFL!

our first draft pick and potential starter at WR,

4th on the depth chart.

I'm sure there were more, but it's pretty hard to argue that 2008 had a worse string of injuries than last year. Losing Webster, Niko, Boss Bailey, Selvin Young, Andre Hall, 3 other useless RBs and the only three that should have even been starters in the first place in Hillis, DJ (who was outplayed by Woodyard during his absence) and Champ is not quite equivalent to losing almost every defensive starter for multiple games, having almost every OL player injured for most of training camp and part of the season and losing a similar number of offensive skill position players to 2008's "decimation".

Plus Orton's injury (and 2 different coach's refusal to bench him) pretty much single-handedly cost us 2 games.

**** we even lost Prater for multiple games last year.

Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
04-18-2011, 08:58 PM
I know right? amazing how only head coaches that have those laurels are lauded on here as Hall of Fame material...owners than write the checks for and hired that coach? Not so much.....

Pat Bowlen has done more for the denver community than just own the Broncos....I'll forgive him because he tried to catch lightning in a bottle again with McDaniels.

Sorry he saw a bit of shanahan in the guy.....and hell josh was alot like Mike in many ways....

[] he never fixed a sorry DL....

2005 DL with the #2 defense was not a mistake



[] was good at coaching QB's
Not "was", but "is". After Elway, he coached Pro-Bowl QB Griese, 3rd round QB, Jake Plummer with 3 playoff apperences vs. 1 before he came here.


[] drafted a potential franchise QB instead of fixing a sieve for a defense...

The year we drafted C----- we had the #2 defense in the league



[] made questionable personnel decisions....

Can't totally disagree here




[] whiffed on some high picks........
Yes here as well


[] and basically was a laughingstock when he was finally gone

ummmm 8-8 with a top ten offense and going through 8 RBs vs. 4-12 second pick with a 32 rank defense and 20th ranks offense.

misturanderson
04-18-2011, 09:00 PM
Knowshon played in 13 games and Buck 15



Complete bull****.

Clady, Beadles and Walton played in every game (And Clady's looked worse as we've shifted away from the ZBS, so dont give me this "but he missed TC ****). Kuper missed a total of ONE game, and Harris missed 6, but was only on the injury report for 3.

So take that **** up with Josh McDumb**** and his horrid position coach Barone.



DJ and Haggan played every game. Judging from the ridiculous success of former UDFA and first time starter Cameron Wake, Elvis's sack leading season was more a product of Nolan.



5 games is now "half the season"?



Champ missed A game and Goodman sucks. Cox was an upgrade.



Actually Hill and Bruton played in every single game...



ROFL!



4th on the depth chart.



Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!

Almost all your idiotic personal opinion. I don't care to get in a pissing match with you, but the injuries suffered in 2010 were very clearly worse (injuries aren't completely accounted for by games missed you douche bag) and affected a wider range of positions than they did in 2008.

TheReverend
04-18-2011, 09:03 PM
Almost all your idiotic personal opinion. I don't care to get in a pissing match with you.

Not really.

According to the way you term the "injuries" I can say:

In 2008 our entire team outside of the OL and QB were injured.

(For people who CARE about facts: The only players in 2008 to play the entire season were: Cutler, the OL, Graham, Dre Bly and Marcus Thomas. NO ONE else)

Missouribronc
04-18-2011, 09:11 PM
There's nothing like hiring the head coach of the only team worse than you to be your head coach...

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
04-18-2011, 09:20 PM
There's nothing like hiring the head coach of the only team worse than you to be your head coach...

Really? You really think that the Panthers are worse than what we did last year?

TheReverend
04-18-2011, 09:21 PM
2008 injuries:

Starters games missed (not even counting RBs because that would skew this like crazy with 7 on the IR, nor Scheffler): 44

2010 injuries Starters games missed (including running backs): 46 (16 of which are Elvis)

So, being completely COMPLIMENTARY to YOUR P.O.V. by skewing it TOWARDS your "argument" the injury tallies are ridiculously close.

Start throwing in those RBs and it gets crapped all over.

Getting subjective and saying Orton --> Tebow was an offensive production improvement takes away 3 games.

Cox being better than Goodman takes away another 8.

So if you count RBs in 2008 and be realistic about the position improvements by the following depth you have figures like this:

2008: 55 games missed by starters (still not counting Scheffler)

2010: 46 (or 35 if you count upgrades via "injury") games missed by starters.

misturanderson
04-18-2011, 09:23 PM
Not really.

According to the way you term the "injuries" I can say:

In 2008 our entire team outside of the OL and QB were injured.

(For people who CARE about facts: The only players in 2008 to play the entire season were: Cutler, the OL, Graham, Dre Bly and Marcus Thomas. NO ONE else)

Due to injuries? I thought not. Just because Shanahan couldn't figure out how to put the best players on the field until 3/4 of the way through the season (often with his hand forced by injuries) doesn't make 2008's injury issues worse.

And as far as your list of players; Royal missed 0 games as did Dumervil, just off the top of my head. Pretty sure most of the other DL and WRs missed next to nothing due to injuries as well.

That makes the starting QB, the Starting OL, the starting TE, the starting WRs, the starting Safeties (all 10 that Shanny tried and failed miserably with), the starting DL and 1 of the CB starters all fine the whole year. Not that bad.

TheReverend
04-18-2011, 09:42 PM
Due to injuries? I thought not. Just because Shanahan couldn't figure out how to put the best players on the field until 3/4 of the way through the season (often with his hand forced by injuries) doesn't make 2008's injury issues worse.

LOL

And as far as your list of players; Royal missed 0 games as did Dumervil, just off the top of my head. Pretty sure most of the other DL and WRs missed next to nothing due to injuries as well.

Royal did not miss 0 games...

Maybe you shouldn't do this "off the top of your head" because you're piss poor at it.

That makes the starting QB, the Starting OL, the starting TE, the starting WRs, the starting Safeties (all 10 that Shanny tried and failed miserably with), the starting DL and 1 of the CB starters all fine the whole year. Not that bad.

Rofl, barely any of this is true or accurate.

You sir, are an idiot.

jhns
04-19-2011, 06:09 AM
Due to injuries? I thought not. Just because Shanahan couldn't figure out how to put the best players on the field until 3/4 of the way through the season (often with his hand forced by injuries) doesn't make 2008's injury issues worse.

And as far as your list of players; Royal missed 0 games as did Dumervil, just off the top of my head. Pretty sure most of the other DL and WRs missed next to nothing due to injuries as well.

That makes the starting QB, the Starting OL, the starting TE, the starting WRs, the starting Safeties (all 10 that Shanny tried and failed miserably with), the starting DL and 1 of the CB starters all fine the whole year. Not that bad.

It is obvious that you became a fan when McDaniels got here. You aren't making any sense as you try so hard to defend the worst thing to ever happen to this franchise.

Missouribronc
04-19-2011, 06:41 AM
Really? You really think that the Panthers are worse than what we did last year?

Draft order:

1. Carolina.
2. Denver.

You tell me.

jhns
04-19-2011, 06:46 AM
Draft order:

1. Carolina.
2. Denver.

You tell me.

Why would you care? You loved the failures McDaniels and Orton. Why would Fox be a problem for you?

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
04-19-2011, 07:12 AM
Draft order:

1. Carolina.
2. Denver.

You tell me.

So being dead last in defense and offense falling like a rock means nothing either. Come on, we've seen teams turn winning records around in 1 season. How long does it take to turn offensive and defensive ranks around?

24champ
04-19-2011, 02:17 PM
So being dead last in defense and offense falling like a rock means nothing either. Come on, we've seen teams turn winning records around in 1 season. How long does it take to turn offensive and defensive ranks around?

We haven't seen our team make that turn around in some time...its been quite a long time since the Broncos have sniffed the playoffs. We're on our third Head Coach in 4 years and yet another coaching overhaul.

Eventually you are going to reach a point where its not a coaching problem, rather its a management and ownership problem.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
04-19-2011, 03:15 PM
We haven't seen our team make that turn around in some time...its been quite a long time since the Broncos have sniffed the playoffs. We're on our third Head Coach in 4 years and yet another coaching overhaul.

Eventually you are going to reach a point where its not a coaching problem, rather its a management and ownership problem.

Your thinking of the Lions. Stop.