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BroncoMan4ever
04-06-2014, 10:54 PM
What did y'all think? Arya has turned into a cold little b****, and I'm thinking this homosexual prince may crack some skulls this season. A great season opener IMO.

Oberyn is awesome!

Bronc0guy
04-06-2014, 11:01 PM
Oberyn is awesome!

He seems like an IMMEDIATE threat, he wouldn't walk in there looking to F **** **** up, acting like he owned the place without a large army waiting in the wings? Dude is TOO ballsy. Keep in mind I've never read the books.

s0phr0syne
04-06-2014, 11:59 PM
Something I need spoiled: Do we ever get to see an Arya and Needle reunion?

Victory!

Fedaykin
04-07-2014, 12:18 AM
I had serious doubts about the casting of the Red Viper, but the actor nails it. Glad to see Arya's storyline moving along nicely. Was disappointed to not see Bran & crew.

BroncoMan4ever
04-07-2014, 12:34 AM
He seems like an IMMEDIATE threat, he wouldn't walk in there looking to F **** **** up, acting like he owned the place without a large army waiting in the wings? Dude is TOO ballsy. Keep in mind I've never read the books.

I don't want to be the dick that ruins what is to come for you. Just know Oberyn is awesome. Wasn't too sure about the casting for the character originally, but the dude nailed it.

ScottXray
04-07-2014, 10:04 AM
Glad to see GOT progressing.

This should be a very interesting year!

Wife and I had watched the first three, and over the weekend we watched every episode again to refresh our memory. Also, it was informative as there were some things that we missed the first time through. Small details that are important.

I have read the first 4 books. I stopped there ( although I have book five) since the series plot line diverged from the books a bit and knowing too much of what lies ahead spoils the TV series a bit. I will probably read it now, and hope to hell that Martin actually finishes the books before much longer, as he is getting older. I guess he is near to releasing book six of the seven.

HBO has a huge hit with this , but they also had better finish the series. With two more books to be written, I assume they can stretch it out for 5-6 more years, but the public is fickle and may start to lose interest. The more popular the series gets, the more expensive it will be to produce ( actors and general costs go up), and they are not about losing money. I would hate to see it farmed to TNT, CW or something if HBO pulls the plug.

The actors are also aging in real time, and sooner or later one of the important characters may die off for real before Martin kills them in the books, or HBO in the series. While that can be overcome it would detract from the series.

Enjoyed last nights show.

Old Dude
04-08-2014, 05:14 AM
Thoughts on Season 4, ep 1:

They had an awful lot of table-setting to accomplish and managed to get more of that done than I'd have thought possible, and still managed to finish with a great action scene.

I can't say I was rattled by Arya's "loss of innocence." This girl has been reciting her hit list every night and day for about two seasons now. Was anyone really surprised that she'd take an opportunity to carry part of it out? She's been on that path for a long time now.

The Hound was awesome. Like Jaime Lannister, he's a guy who starts on the wrong side of the fence (and with a huge creep factor), and now he's worth rooting for.

And, after getting the snot kicked out of them for about 23 episodes, it was nice to see the "good guys" (other than Dary) finally put one in the net.

The dragons are looking good.

Just when you think things can't get much worse at the Wall, meet the Thenns. (And Janos Slynt in a position of power). This is going to be sweet.

Looks like the PW will be next week.

Old Dude
04-08-2014, 06:30 AM
I guess the Red Wedding didn't turn off viewers after all.

6.6 million viewers for premier - highest for any HBO episode since Sopranos finale.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-game-of-thrones-season-4-premiere-best-hbo-ratings-since-sopranos-20140407,0,7005624.story#axzz2yIbkapFl

SleepingTiger
04-08-2014, 06:35 AM
finally got to watch it, since every time i turned it on my little girl want to watch with me.... maybe not a good idea.

anyways, here are my thoughts

interesting to see the interaction between Jaime and Joeffry. Why didn't Jaime call out the Joeffry running to his mom when he claimed he singled handily held off Stannis.

Red Viper is a hot head and looks to have to skills to keep him alive. However, with him directly threatening Tywin, maybe its not too smart. No need to make your intentions public, especially with Tywin.

Why was house Martell invited knowing the rift between them the Lannisters.

It sucked that we didn't see the status of Yara rescue of her brother.

I am happy i didn't have to see Bran... that story line is just too long and boring. get to the wall already and do something.

whatever happen to the original actor for Daario Naharis? The new actor so far isn't a worthy replacement.

danny is looking sexier

the best part is the interaction between the hound and Arya. i am thinking i have to rewatch that scene in the bar with the chicken.

SleepingTiger
04-08-2014, 06:37 AM
Considering it's a pay service and pirates watching streams were likely through the roof, I think >10 million is pretty realistic.

well not really, HBO had a free weekend to kick off game of thrones s4. instead of watching crappy streams, i watched s4 ep01 for free and i am sure many others did as well.

Kaylore
04-08-2014, 07:06 AM
Interesting thing happened in the show. I mean... a lot more interesting than how a casual comment gave even more credence to the R+L=J theory (which was pretty apparent by this point for the readers anyway).

When Daario gives Dany the 3 flowers they likely represented the 3 riders. Jon in the blue rose, Dany the white flower and the red... a hint that riding a dragon is in the future of Tyrion (or maybe Jaime, though it's slanted more toward Tyrion, imo).

Slanted toward Tyrion evidence:

- Jon, Dany and Tyrion all killed their mothers in birth.
- Jon, Dany and Tyrion all have unique circumstances regarding lineage.
- Plenty of references indicating the Mad King's boner for Lady Lannister
- Tywin to Tyrion "Since I cannot prove you are not mine".

Conclusion: Dany the last dragon? Lulz... it has three-heads you silly girl.

The show doesn't make Tyrion seem as obvious as the possible third rider as the books. A big piece missing is the inner dialogue we get to hear. It makes Tyrion much more interesting. Dinklage does a great job trying to express it with just his acting, and he's obviously one of the favorite characters of the show, but he has an ever stronger presence and I think he's more heavily considered in the readers' minds in the books.

I like Pedro Pascal's portrayal of the Red Viper. It's different than how I read him, but only because the actor isn't exactly as I imagined the Red Viper (probably because of the fan art out there.) Anyway, he marries the tendencies of the book with the personality and behavior of the actor well. It's a good interpretation.

Old Dude
04-08-2014, 08:06 AM
interesting to see the interaction between Jaime and Joeffry. Why didn't Jaime call out the Joeffry running to his mom when he claimed he singled handily held off Stannis.

Jaime wasn’t present when that happened. Even assuming he was informed, he usually avoids getting too nasty with Joff, for a variety of reasons. He’s already on complicated ice due to the allegations that Joff is his son (which he knows to be true, but which Joff utterly rejects). Second, he doesn’t want to get on Cersei’s bad side. Third, he doesn’t want to get booted off the King’s Guard. Joff’s conduct is a big bag of worms for him and he’s going to use more discretion than he usually does when it comes to bickering with the little psycho. Sidenote: This conversation never happened in the books because Jamie was still on his way to King’s Landing when the wedding preps were in progress.


Red Viper is a hot head and looks to have to skills to keep him alive. However, with him directly threatening Tywin, maybe its not too smart. No need to make your intentions public, especially with Tywin.

IIRC, it was a little more subtle in the books. They probably made this more obvious in the show to save time, because they are moving forward at a fairly fast pace by comparison.


Why was house Martell invited knowing the rift between them the Lannisters.

The thing to remember about House Martell is that they have a rift with just about everyone. Oby’s sister was in line to become the queen of all Westeros. Robert’s Rebellion ended all of that, so they had no love for any of the Baratheons, including Robert, Stannis and Renly. Ned Stark was part of that as well. And while the Viper is angry at Tywin and the other Lannisters, most of his immediate rage is directed at Gregor Clegane, who is the guy who actually raped and murdered his sister and butchered her children.

The problem is that, after Robert’s Rebellion, the Martells simply lacked the firepower to do anything about any of this. They couldn’t go to war with any chance of winning. They were mostly in survival mode. In Season 2, when we had the war begin between Renly, Joff and Robb, both Renly and Tyrion (acting as King’s Hand for Joff) tried to mend fences with the Martells. This is why Tyrion sent Joff’s sister to the Martell’s for a marriage alliance. While the Martells didn’t rush to the aid of King’s Landing, they didn’t throw in with Renly (or later, Stannis, either.)

Now that the Starks are decimated and Stannis is on the ropes, the Lannisters figure it’s as good a time as any to finish the fence-mending with the Martells.

Also, keep in mind that the Viper is not the head of the Martell family. He’s not even second in line. So we don’t really know at this point (from the show) if the others carry quite as much of a grudge. And even if they do, they may have their own plans for future revenge. :)


It sucked that we didn't see the status of Yara rescue of her brother.

There are a lot of changes from the book regarding this particular subplot, both in detail and timing. At this particular point in the books, we didn’t even know if Theon was still alive. I do think we might get an update on this stuff in episode 2.

yerner
04-08-2014, 09:11 AM
this show moves so ****ing slow.

SleepingTiger
04-08-2014, 09:27 AM
Jaime wasn’t present when that happened. Even assuming he was informed, he usually avoids getting too nasty with Joff, for a variety of reasons. He’s already on complicated ice due to the allegations that Joff is his son (which he knows to be true, but which Joff utterly rejects). Second, he doesn’t want to get on Cersei’s bad side. Third, he doesn’t want to get booted off the King’s Guard. Joff’s conduct is a big bag of worms for him and he’s going to use more discretion than he usually does when it comes to bickering with the little psycho. Sidenote: This conversation never happened in the books because Jamie was still on his way to King’s Landing when the wedding preps were in progress.

I guess you're right, I don't see Tyrion showing much precaution when it comes to Joeffry. Of all people, Tyrion doesn't really have anyone on his side. I loved it when Tyrion bitch slapped Joeffry twice. I am not sure if Cersei wouldn't mind Jaime confronting Joeffry. Remember when Joff wanted Rob stark head presented to Sansa, Tyrion said no and Cersei cided with the imp.

The thing to remember about House Martell is that they have a rift with just about everyone. Oby’s sister was in line to become the queen of all Westeros. Robert’s Rebellion ended all of that, so they had no love for any of the Baratheons, including Robert, Stannis and Renly. Ned Stark was part of that as well. And while the Viper is angry at Tywin and the other Lannisters, most of his immediate rage is directed at Gregor Clegane, who is the guy who actually raped and murdered his sister and butchered her children.

Yes, he has much hate toward Gregor. However, his hate for Lannister according to the show is much worse. Gregor is just a puppet, but Tywin and the arrogance of the Lannisters is what he hates. He even pointed out that Gregor carried out orders from Tywin.


Also, keep in mind that the Viper is not the head of the Martell family. He’s not even second in line. So we don’t really know at this point (from the show) if the others carry quite as much of a grudge. And even if they do, they may have their own plans for future revenge. :)


all these houses, i can't tell who is who. i do remember Tyrion shipping off Cerseis daughter for marraige, i just don't know where.

There are a lot of changes from the book regarding this particular subplot, both in detail and timing. At this particular point in the books, we didn’t even know if Theon was still alive. I do think we might get an update on this stuff in episode 2.


screw theon, he should of already been dead. he is only good at raiding fishing villages and is an idiot. how he is still alive is incredible.
yara, for some reason i think she's hot. we need to see her in battle.

IndelibleScribe
04-08-2014, 10:05 AM
Arya didn't shock me at all. I expected this to take place last season.
It has been building for quite some time since she was rattling off the personal hit list.

Johnykbr
04-08-2014, 10:19 AM
whatever happen to the original actor for Daario Naharis? The new actor so far isn't a worthy replacement.

There was backlash against the casting because he was considered way too pretty for the part. Then he got offered the chance to replace Jason Statham or whatever his name is in the next Transporter movie and he jumped at it.

With that said, the new one looks much more like the one described in the book but doesn't have the smugness that the original actor had (which is like the books). So no net gain here.

24champ
04-08-2014, 10:22 AM
Something is about to happen to Tyrion, one of the maids saw Shae walk out of the room. That and his "wife" is being very quiet, she's up to something.

http://rack.2.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE0LzA0LzA3LzYwL3R1bWJscl9uM281LmUyNzVmLmdpZg pwCXRodW1iCTg1MHg1OTA-CmUJanBn/59b606a7/6d5/tumblr_n3o5g9shv31qd5lk3o6_250.jpg

24champ
04-08-2014, 10:33 AM
Favorite scene of episode one.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/df360e4cad1f098d293b35d31476dee2/tumblr_n3ndc05q7M1qb6v6ro6_250.gif

Hate having to wait another week for the next episode. BULL****!

Old Dude
04-08-2014, 10:44 AM
At least Sandor got chicken. Leeroy Jenkins would be impressed.

24champ
04-08-2014, 10:50 AM
If only more of the plot were written down somewhere...

Yes, but I hate reading books and then watching it being played out on tv or in a movie. I'm always let down and disappointed they leave out some details or lack of character development due to the time constraints of a tv show or movie.

Requiem
04-08-2014, 10:58 AM
The only thing I didn't like about this episode was lack of Bran.

I am doing a cover of The Darkness -- I Believe In A Thing Called Love. . .

Instead, it'll be I Believe In A Boy Named Bran.

BroncsRule
04-08-2014, 11:07 AM
I need more Bran in my diet.

Old Dude
04-08-2014, 11:14 AM
Promo, episode 2:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/KWI2VMAOkAY?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Johnykbr
04-08-2014, 11:18 AM
Them purple beards tho?

I wish they had dyed his hair or beard or whatever it was a shade of that color. One of the big things the casual viewers were bitching about was they couldn't tell the difference between Oberyn and him. They do look a little bit similar I have to admit.

Johnykbr
04-08-2014, 11:21 AM
One easy way to tell the difference is that they're on opposite sides of the ****ing planet Hilarious!

Remember, these are the same people that said they should find a way to bring back Ned or "ERMAHGERD HOW COULD THEY KILL JOHN STARK AND THE WOLF AT THE WEEDING?!?!"

Old Dude
04-08-2014, 11:27 AM
The show really needs a map or something. Maybe in the opening credits.

SleepingTiger
04-08-2014, 12:09 PM
The only thing I didn't like about this episode was lack of Bran.

I am doing a cover of The Darkness -- I Believe In A Thing Called Love. . .

Instead, it'll be I Believe In A Boy Named Bran.

he was in the episode, wasn't he at the welcome wagon with tyrion?

Archer81
04-08-2014, 12:11 PM
he was in the episode, wasn't he at the welcome wagon with tyrion?


He's the one who caught Cersei and Jamie getting it on in season one, got shoved off of a tower and paralyzed from the waist down. In the books, he is becoming one with a tree.


:Broncos:

Kaylore
04-08-2014, 12:22 PM
At least Sandor got chicken. Leeroy Jenkins would be impressed.

I am shocked that YOU of all people get let alone made this reference.

bronco militia
04-08-2014, 12:29 PM
The show really needs a map or something. Maybe in the opening credits.

:rofl:

Kaylore
04-08-2014, 12:40 PM
I wish they had dyed his hair or beard or whatever it was a shade of that color. One of the big things the casual viewers were b****ing about was they couldn't tell the difference between Oberyn and him. They do look a little bit similar I have to admit.

I really don't agree.


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/1/31/1391190436395/Michiel-Huisman-008.jpg

http://media.comicbook.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/game-of-thrones-season-4-oberyn-martell.jpg

I personally think Pedro Pascal looks like Corey Feldman

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/03/17/t1main.feldman.jpg

http://cdn2-www.craveonline.com/assets/uploads/2013/06/Pedro-Pascal.jpg

I actually thought Ed Skrein looked too much like the Faceless Man

http://projectfandom.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/dario-nod.gif

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IQNCLwwcOD4/Ubll1TAsTEI/AAAAAAAABEI/IYd8PdfHurk/s1600/2.10.Jaquen.Arya.png

And even if it isn't purple, Daahrio needs a beard.

Johnykbr
04-08-2014, 12:49 PM
I really don't agree.


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/1/31/1391190436395/Michiel-Huisman-008.jpg

http://media.comicbook.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/game-of-thrones-season-4-oberyn-martell.jpg

I personally think Pedro Pascal looks like Corey Feldman

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/03/17/t1main.feldman.jpg

http://cdn2-www.craveonline.com/assets/uploads/2013/06/Pedro-Pascal.jpg

I actually thought Ed Skrein looked too much like the Faceless Man

http://projectfandom.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/dario-nod.gif

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IQNCLwwcOD4/Ubll1TAsTEI/AAAAAAAABEI/IYd8PdfHurk/s1600/2.10.Jaquen.Arya.png

And even if it isn't purple, Daahrio needs a beard.

The similarity isn't my issue, I was just echoing the complaint I was seeing on some message boards. But like I was saying, these were people that thought Jon Snow and Robb Stark were the same person and got confused how he was sometimes in snow and sometimes not.

My only complaint, besides the fact he doesn't have the charisma that he should (so far) is the lack of a dyed beard.

Old Dude
04-08-2014, 03:18 PM
I am shocked that YOU of all people get let alone made this reference.

I own a 19-year old.

Old Dude
04-09-2014, 11:08 AM
Following the ratings splash of Episode 1 of Season 4, two more seasons of GoT have been officially ordered by HBO.

http://www.theverge.com/entertainment/2014/4/8/5594448/hbo-orders-two-more-seasons-of-game-of-thrones

Old Dude
04-09-2014, 11:50 AM
They already know and don't care.

SleepingTiger
04-09-2014, 12:36 PM
He's the one who caught Cersei and Jamie getting it on in season one, got shoved off of a tower and paralyzed from the waist down. In the books, he is becoming one with a tree.


:Broncos:

damnit, i saw bran and thought bronn. yes bran wasn't in the episode. yes!!!! where are they trying to go with that subplot anyways

SleepingTiger
04-09-2014, 12:37 PM
notsureifsrs

unfortunately i was. Uhh

BroncsRule
04-13-2014, 03:11 PM
damnit, i saw bran and thought bronn. yes bran wasn't in the episode. yes!!!! where are they trying to go with that subplot anyways

They seem to be accelerating Bran's story line at an almost break-neck pace compared to the books. They have him en route to the cave in ep. 4-2 (tonight), which doesn't happen in the books until Dance. If they're not careful, they will run Bran & Co. right up to the "present" - and have nothing for him to do for 2 + years, waiting for the other threads to catch up. (And for GRRM to publish, of course. Not a good business model, based on his track record.)

Mat'hir Uth Gan
04-13-2014, 07:00 PM
And now the world rejoices. Pretty much how it played out in the book.

Archer81
04-13-2014, 07:02 PM
Some moments are perfect.

That pretty much was.

Get your own goblet, bitch.

:Broncos:

IndelibleScribe
04-13-2014, 07:11 PM
WOOOOOOO!!!!! That death was so so so delicious. That little punk deserved far worse though.

24champ
04-13-2014, 08:52 PM
Awesome episode 2!!!

Agreed with lestat, should have been more slower and painful.

McDman
04-13-2014, 09:08 PM
Books 8-10 were rough.

I have my suspicions that his wife (an editor at Tor) made him drag it out since the series is such a cash cow. After all, it was intended to be 12 books long and we're finally hitting the end when they release #14 at the start of next year

I have nowvread book 1-8 twice and each time I completely lost interest. He should have made it an 8 book series.

Archer81
04-13-2014, 09:25 PM
Awesome episode 2!!!

Agreed with lestat, should have been more slower and painful.


For Joffrey that one minute stretches on forever. That is his hell.


:Broncos:

IndelibleScribe
04-13-2014, 09:57 PM
For Joffrey that one minute stretches on forever. That is his hell.


:Broncos:

But that little bastard was so evil that it was far too good for him to die so quickly. It is rare that I hate a character so much. But he just makes my blood boil.

Archer81
04-13-2014, 10:38 PM
But that little bastard was so evil that it was far too good for him to die so quickly. It is rare that I hate a character so much. But he just makes my blood boil.


And he died in the correct way. Agonizingly. Slowly. His entire world became the inability to draw air in. He panicked. Sound faded, color faded. All the pain and misery he inflicted was returned to him 1000 fold. For us his death was too short. For him, he experienced choking on his own blood.

That is what I meant by his eternity and hell. He died with the fear and panic and hopelessness he gave to others. Its the good time/horrible time dynamic. When you are having fun, it is too short. When you are miserable, it drags. It dragged for Joffrey.

:Broncos:

BroncsRule
04-13-2014, 11:24 PM
And he died in the correct way. Agonizingly. Slowly. His entire world became the inability to draw air in. He panicked. Sound faded, color faded. All the pain and misery he inflicted was returned to him 1000 fold. For us his death was too short. For him, he experienced choking on his own blood.

That is what I meant by his eternity and hell. He died with the fear and panic and hopelessness he gave to others. Its the good time/horrible time dynamic. When you are having fun, it is too short. When you are miserable, it drags. It dragged for Joffrey.

:Broncos:

One can certainly hope.

extralife
04-13-2014, 11:38 PM
They seem to be accelerating Bran's story line at an almost break-neck pace compared to the books. They have him en route to the cave in ep. 4-2 (tonight), which doesn't happen in the books until Dance. If they're not careful, they will run Bran & Co. right up to the "present" - and have nothing for him to do for 2 + years, waiting for the other threads to catch up. (And for GRRM to publish, of course. Not a good business model, based on his track record.)

good, then we won't have to waste any more time on his poor man's frodo baggins story arc

BroncoMan4ever
04-14-2014, 12:17 AM
good, then we won't have to waste any more time on his poor man's frodo baggins story arc

Agreed. Of all the storylines going on, Bran's is the only one I really don't care about. I just think he along with Jon is going to wind up being one of the dragon riders with Danaerys.

v2micca
04-14-2014, 09:22 AM
Honestly, I'm just glad that they finally got the Purple Wedding storyline out of the way. There are a ton of storylines that have just been idling while waiting for this particular thread to conclude. A lot of dominoes should start falling in the coming weeks.

Kaylore
04-14-2014, 09:26 AM
Honestly, I'm just glad that they finally got the Purple Wedding storyline out of the way. There are a ton of storylines that have just been idling while waiting for this particular thread to conclude. A lot of dominoes should start falling in the coming weeks.

It is Storm of Swords. This is where Martin breaks everything. Feast of Crows is when he picks up the pieces.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
04-14-2014, 09:41 AM
It is Storm of Swords. This is where Martin breaks everything. Feast of Crows is when he picks up the pieces.

So are they in "Storm of Swords" or "Feast of Crows" right now?

Garcia Bronco
04-14-2014, 09:46 AM
That was satisfying to see that little bitch go down. I would have done it a long time ago, but included his mother in the game.

Garcia Bronco
04-14-2014, 09:47 AM
good, then we won't have to waste any more time on his poor man's frodo baggins story arc

I gotta agree.

Boobs McGee
04-14-2014, 10:20 AM
Just in case anyone NOT reading the books didn't catch it, here's a hilariously accurate depiction of the poisoning:

http://imgur.com/gallery/0EQr6

http://i.imgur.com/cYzHX5r.gif

http://i.imgur.com/9K2RM8N.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/T6nAcw3.gif

http://i.imgur.com/W0oQVsY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VhvnW2U.gif

Courtesy of Reddit

Taco John
04-14-2014, 11:01 AM
So are they in "Storm of Swords" or "Feast of Crows" right now?

We're in Storm right now and will be through the rest of this season.

Johnykbr
04-14-2014, 11:09 AM
That episode just confirmed how terrible of an actress Lena Headey can be. Cersei was terrible there. In the book she rivaled Catelyn Stark. In this episode it seemed more like Tyrion ate the last donut which she wanted.

Also, I don't know what's going on with the Shae thing but I'm not liking it.

With all that said, Margaery Tyrell, Geoffrey, and Tyrion all were amazing at the wedding. Jack Gleeson was amazing in his role and had a huge part in advancing the series so I could see his death putting a damper on the ratings for a bit until Ramsey and Roose take the reigns as the people everyone loves to hate.

El Guapo
04-14-2014, 11:57 AM
Yup, loved how that piece of necklace was missing (just like in the book). Figured it was another thing for us readers to sit back and enjoy.

Kaylore
04-14-2014, 01:48 PM
That episode just confirmed how terrible of an actress Lena Headey can be. Cersei was terrible there. In the book she rivaled Catelyn Stark. In this episode it seemed more like Tyrion ate the last donut which she wanted.


Lena Headey has been a disappointment to me as Cersei since the series began. She's not a rage and hate filled firestorm like she is in the books. Headey plays her like each loss is just a moderate disappointment that was completely expected and either it doesn't REALLY matter or she's going to pretend it didn't out of spite. She seems to whisper all her lines and is constantly hunched over like a cold old woman. I made this point earlier in the the thread and ever ripped on me saying she was perfect blah, blah, blah.

Taco John
04-14-2014, 01:54 PM
A co-worker of mine missed the show last night because her Mom got attacked by two pitbulls earlier that day. I called her to talk about the episode, and instead, we ended up talking about what had happened to her poor mother. I feel so terrible for her.

Then I realized that she would be wanting to watch the episode soon to take her mind off of all this... I had to send her a warning about the Ramsey Snow hunting scene... I can't even imagine how she'd take that scene right now...

Garcia Bronco
04-14-2014, 01:59 PM
That episode just confirmed how terrible of an actress Lena Headey can be. Cersei was terrible there. In the book she rivaled Catelyn Stark. In this episode it seemed more like Tyrion ate the last donut which she wanted.

Also, I don't know what's going on with the Shae thing but I'm not liking it.

With all that said, Margaery Tyrell, Geoffrey, and Tyrion all were amazing at the wedding. Jack Gleeson was amazing in his role and had a huge part in advancing the series so I could see his death putting a damper on the ratings for a bit until Ramsey and Roose take the reigns as the people everyone loves to hate.

She's a B actress at best(aways has been)...even what she did last night was aweful

Bronc0guy
04-14-2014, 02:14 PM
Just in case anyone NOT reading the books didn't catch it, here's a hilariously accurate depiction of the poisoning:

http://imgur.com/gallery/0EQr6

http://i.imgur.com/cYzHX5r.gif

http://i.imgur.com/9K2RM8N.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/T6nAcw3.gif

http://i.imgur.com/W0oQVsY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VhvnW2U.gif

Courtesy of Reddit

So the crystal was poisonous? I figured it was the queens mother who somehow poisoned him but having not read the books I wasn't sure. I'm glad Joffrey is dead, have NEVER hated a character on a show that much. Wish it had been slower, but I agree with Archer. That one or 2 minutes of choking on his own blood probably seemed like a lifetime to Joffrey. Can't wait to see what happens next.

Garcia Bronco
04-14-2014, 02:16 PM
Or better yet his bitch mother....everything...and I mean everything wrong with that country's leadership is a direct result of his mother ****ing it up...with her brother....lol

Archer81
04-14-2014, 02:48 PM
Lena Headey has been a disappointment to me as Cersei since the series began. She's not a rage and hate filled firestorm like she is in the books. Headey plays her like each loss is just a moderate disappointment that was completely expected and either it doesn't REALLY matter or she's going to pretend it didn't out of spite. She seems to whisper all her lines and is constantly hunched over like a cold old woman. I made this point earlier in the the thread and ever ripped on me saying she was perfect blah, blah, blah.


I think Headley plays the role well enough. Her anger and rage seems to me at least to be always JUST contained. Like it's taking all of her energy to not completely and utterly fly off the handle.

Her reaction to Joffrey choking out felt like the dam burst. I expect her to go full on crazy town. I do think that the actress who played Cat Stark did a better job of conveying the character. Headley's is not wrong, but not as forceful as it can be. At least to this point.

:Broncos:

Archer81
04-14-2014, 02:53 PM
Or better yet his b**** mother....everything...and I mean everything wrong with that country's leadership is a direct result of his mother ****ing it up...with her brother....lol


The Lannisters/Baratheons are what the Targaryens were. History is a cycle. Siblings popping off kids and the madness of inbred kings. King's Landing is as subtle about the corrupting influence of power as a nuclear bomb going off is considered a little warm.

:Broncos:

Mat'hir Uth Gan
04-14-2014, 02:55 PM
Pretty big fan of Lena as Cersei. Opinions always vary person to person, but for me, she nails it. I'm pretty happy with all the castings. Bran and Peter are the two that didn't fit the images and personalities I've had in my head over the years, and they annoy me. Peter probably the worst, but everyone seems to love that actor. He just doesn't look right nor play the part right for me. Bran simply doesn't look like a Stark. He doesn't have that ruggedness. And it's even worse now that he's hit puberty and grown six feet.

Requiem
04-14-2014, 02:57 PM
Pretty big fan of Lena as Cersei. Opinions always vary person to person, but for me, she nails it. I'm pretty happy with all the castings. Bran and Peter are the two that didn't fit the images and personalities I've had in my head over the years, and they annoy me. Peter probably the worst, but everyone seems to love that actor. He just doesn't look right nor play the part right for me. Bran simply doesn't look like a Stark. He doesn't have that ruggedness. And it's even worse now that he's hit puberty and grown six feet.

Bran is the man. Hooooooooooooodoooooooooooooooor.

Drunk Monkey
04-14-2014, 03:18 PM
Or better yet his b**** mother....everything...and I mean everything wrong with that country's leadership is a direct result of his mother ****ing it up...with her brother....lol

She is just getting started ****ing up the country. She takes it to a new level in the books to come.

IndelibleScribe
04-14-2014, 04:10 PM
She is just getting started ****ing up the country. She takes it to a new level in the books to come.

I cannot wait til the walk of shame.

myMind
04-14-2014, 05:45 PM
Agreed. Of all the storylines going on, Bran's is the only one I really don't care about.

This is one of the biggest issues I have with the show. Bran is a top three POV character in the books for me, in the show they barely scratch the surface of who he is and the journey he is taking. I also don't really like the actor who plays Bran, and it's pretty obvious the kid dropped a sack and sprouted some pubes...which Bran doesn't...cause he's like eight.

I will also be extremely upset if Bran's TV storyline catches up to the book this season and the writers start telling the story for Martin from what he has told them. I'd honestly have to stop watching, no question.

extralife
04-14-2014, 06:56 PM
I think the show has generally done a good job of taking a giant series of books full of elongated **** that shouldn't be there and trimming it down to a compelling, manageable core. No ****s are given about Bran and his rip-off journey, so the less the better. #hater

Lena Headey carries every scene she's in. She's the best actor in the show.

myMind
04-14-2014, 07:00 PM
I think the show has generally done a good job of taking a giant series of books full of elongated **** that shouldn't be there and trimming it down to a compelling, manageable core. No ****s are given about Bran and his rip-off journey, so the less the better. #hater

Rip-off is an interesting term, seeing as the journey isn't finished yet. Regardless, I get the feeling that you lack the attention span required to read a book over two hundred pages.

Taco John
04-14-2014, 09:13 PM
Man, I think every word of those books is critical to understanding what the hell is going on. Minus the food descriptions - well, except where the Frey Pie is concerned, you've got to read that part carefully to fully appreciate what it is that is being eaten. And even then, you don't really understand it without the context that is provided in what might seem as unecessarily "elongated" stuff, but actually critical plot clues.

thumpc
04-14-2014, 09:41 PM
Can you give us some excerpts from the Frey Pie experience?

Taco John
04-14-2014, 09:52 PM
This is one of the biggest issues I have with the show. Bran is a top three POV character in the books for me, in the show they barely scratch the surface of who he is and the journey he is taking. I also don't really like the actor who plays Bran, and it's pretty obvious the kid dropped a sack and sprouted some pubes...which Bran doesn't...cause he's like eight.

I will also be extremely upset if Bran's TV storyline catches up to the book this season and the writers start telling the story for Martin from what he has told them. I'd honestly have to stop watching, no question.

What more could they show from Bran's storyline? They've hit all the major points. They'll spend some time this season on the journey there. I suppose they've got to introduce Coldhands (http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/088/7/3/cold_hands_by_zippo514-d5znqtp.jpg)... That's the part I'm most interested in seeing how they handle. And then the season will end with Bran reaching the tree. Then I'd expect season five to follow Bran's schooling by the children of the forest and Brynden Rivers (http://th01.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2012/188/c/a/the_tree_eyed_one___spoiler_by_marcsimonetti-d56bbf5.jpg).

Now here is my theory of what happens with Bran's storyline after Season 5... I'm trying to figure out how they might work this exactly, but we all know that at the rate the show is going, HBO is going to catch up with the books. But there's a lot of story to tell without running over GRRM, and the way to stitch this together is through Bran's experience with Blood Raven and greenseeing.

I expect the last thing we see of Bran in season 5 will be the vision where he sees Ned bring back Jon Snow. But there is more - Bran continues to see further and further back into the past. So why not extrapolate that over an entire season to show the roots of Robert's Rebellion? Of course, that's a huge risk and it might take at least two seasons to do. The more I think about it, the more logistically difficult it sounds. But I still like the idea. Nothing like it has ever happened in television history - they'd have to replace the entire cast for a season or two, and then get them all back.

Forget it... as awesome as it sounds to me, it's probably not possible.

extralife
04-14-2014, 09:58 PM
Rip-off is an interesting term, seeing as the journey isn't finished yet. Regardless, I get the feeling that you lack the attention span required to read a book over two hundred pages.

I was a lit student. I've read Ulysses several times. I'm writing a novel. Try again.

Bran is a half-assed Frodo. I'd rather we just go no-ass.

BroncsRule
04-14-2014, 10:13 PM
What more could they show from Bran's storyline? They've hit all the major points. They'll spend some time this season on the journey there. I suppose they've got to introduce Coldhands (http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/088/7/3/cold_hands_by_zippo514-d5znqtp.jpg)... That's the part I'm most interested in seeing how they handle. And then the season will end with Bran reaching the tree. Then I'd expect season five to follow Bran's schooling by the children of the forest and Brynden Rivers (http://th01.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2012/188/c/a/the_tree_eyed_one___spoiler_by_marcsimonetti-d56bbf5.jpg).

Now here is my theory of what happens with Bran's storyline after Season 5... I'm trying to figure out how they might work this exactly, but we all know that at the rate the show is going, HBO is going to catch up with the books. But there's a lot of story to tell without running over GRRM, and the way to stitch this together is through Bran's experience with Blood Raven and greenseeing.

I expect the last thing we see of Bran in season 5 will be the vision where he sees Ned bring back Jon Snow. But there is more - Bran continues to see further and further back into the past. So why not extrapolate that over an entire season to show the roots of Robert's Rebellion? Of course, that's a huge risk and it might take at least two seasons to do. The more I think about it, the more logistically difficult it sounds. But I still like the idea. Nothing like it has ever happened in television history - they'd have to replace the entire cast for a season or two, and then get them all back.

Forget it... as awesome as it sounds to me, it's probably not possible.

Wow - that would be.. Ambitious, to say the least.

I do think there is a concerted effort afoot to rush Bran's story arc along because, as others have pointed out, that young man is growing like a weed. Once they have him safely ensconced on his "throne", it doesn't matter how big he gets. They can cover him with moss, and his facial features are all that will matter. And if his dream state, alter ego is becoming quite princely, well, all the better.

Taco John
04-14-2014, 10:28 PM
I was a lit student. I've read Ulysses several times. I'm writing a novel. Try again.

Bran is a half-assed Frodo. I'd rather we just go no-ass.


Meh. Not buying it. You could easily say that anyone who goes on a journey is a half-assed Frodo. But Frodo is not where Bran's story has been or is even going.

Bran's story seems to be one of a narrator who will fill in gaps for us that no other character could fill in. I supect when it's all said and done, it will be Bran who reveals Jon Snow's parentage, and other mysteries. If I'm right, Bran's character is brilliant because he allows GRRM to avoid some form of Deus ex Machina as he unfolds the tale.

The story would be worse off without Bran.

myMind
04-14-2014, 11:07 PM
I was a lit student. I've read Ulysses several times. I'm writing a novel. Try again.

Bran is a half-assed Frodo. I'd rather we just go no-ass.

Ulysses is a half-assed Odysseus. Oh wait...

extralife
04-14-2014, 11:27 PM
I'm going to at least give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend that by "Odysseus" you actually meant "The Odyssey."

I bring up Ulysses because you decided to bring up attention span for no reason. Most people who've read all the Song of Fire and Ice books multiple times would quit on Ulysses within ten pages.

extralife
04-14-2014, 11:35 PM
Meh. Not buying it. You could easily say that anyone who goes on a journey is a half-assed Frodo. But Frodo is not where Bran's story has been or is even going.

he is an unassuming youngster in a fantasy novel carrying a burden (and a traveling party) into the heart of the territory of a supernatural enemy. that he is looking for something rather than traveling toward a fixed location is pretty inconsequential.

I could do without the zombies entirely, if we're making wishes.

Taco John
04-15-2014, 12:59 AM
he is an unassuming youngster in a fantasy novel carrying a burden (and a traveling party) into the heart of the territory of a supernatural enemy. that he is looking for something rather than traveling toward a fixed location is pretty inconsequential.

I could do without the zombies entirely, if we're making wishes.

Carrying a burden? What burden? There's no ring of power here. He is his own burden.

He's crippled kid who is having dreams that lead him to believe that he will somehow be made whole if he reaches his destination. He knows nothing of a supernatural enemy. He doesn't have any real belief that the weight of the world is on his shoulders. He's a kid who can put his thoughts into the body of his pet wolf. THAT is his real struggle right now - keeping his humanity vs. losing himself in his animal and living whole once again.

To equate this to 'Bran = Frodo, end of story' is unimpressive for someone who fancies themselves with a strong lit background. It's comically simplistic and misses so many compelling aspects that have made Bran into a favorite for so many readers.

Bran is being faced with a lot of seemingly innocuous morality questions that ultimately have more impact than he can imagine. It's nothing as cut and dried as "use the ring, become evil; destroy the ring, remain good." Bran's path is a lot more complex as he struggles with losing his identity AND losing his humanity, all while on a quest to try and become whole again. Bran isn't thinking about saving the world. He's thinking about becoming a great knight. Ultimately, he's going to be faced with the decision of losing his mortality and becoming one of the initiated old gods - a proposition that his character is struggling with coming to grips with.

I can't hardly understand how someone could hold the opinion that Bran offers nothing new to literature and he'd have best been left out of the story. He's got one of the more compelling story lines in all of fantasy writing, with dilemmas that no other character in the genre has faced, and there's still so much to learn about his decisions.

extralife
04-15-2014, 01:16 AM
He's a kid who can put his thoughts into the body of his pet wolf. THAT is his real struggle right now - keeping his humanity vs. losing himself in his animal and living whole once again.

and that's the burden. it is in fact the same burden as Frodo has with the ring. when he puts on the ring, he is free. he gains powers. it feels good. but he must control himself against his baser instincts, lest he lose his humanity. sound familiar? he even has one companion who understands, same as Bran.

and Bran is constantly being told that he's important.

to me, it's a bore. it's tacked on to a world that doesn't need it, which is how I feel about everything in the series involving zombies and Dire Fates and Blah and Magic and More Blah Gods Blah Blah Spooky Foreshadowing

unfortunately it's all sitting there in the title of the whole thing, so I'm probably ****ed in the end. plop me in King's Landing and its companion cities and I'm good to go. this isn't great literature, it's well done pulp. so put down the joseph campbell for dummies primer and keep it rolling, george.

Taco John
04-15-2014, 01:23 AM
Here we have Frodo and Sam Gamgee:

http://i.imgur.com/2xQB95V.jpg

They went on an adventure to a magical land (Colorado), carrying a burden (briefcase full of money), in a strange world full of enemies. While on their journey to release themselves of the heavy load, they are pursued by enemies who would use it for their own purposes. Along the way, they pick up an enemy who cons them into taking him along on their quest - he is ultimately killed. At the bleakest part of their journey, Frodo banishes Sam from his company, but the two are reunited when Sam Gamgee's indomitable spirit proves to be an overwhelming force that Frodo cannot resist. The combo ultimately reach their destination and succeed over the dark forces, against all odds.

This story has a lot more in common with Frodo than Bran's story does.

Johnykbr
04-15-2014, 07:36 AM
I think Headley plays the role well enough. Her anger and rage seems to me at least to be always JUST contained. Like it's taking all of her energy to not completely and utterly fly off the handle.

Her reaction to Joffrey choking out felt like the dam burst. I expect her to go full on crazy town. I do think that the actress who played Cat Stark did a better job of conveying the character. Headley's is not wrong, but not as forceful as it can be. At least to this point.

:Broncos:

That's the issue here though. This is one of the few times where Martin gets literary revenge on a family and Cat Stark (whom I've always disliked for some reason) totally nailed it despite my wondrous ability to nitpick. Lena was supposed to be the same and honestly, Jaime looked more upset than she did at losing her child. She was like a 3 there and then looks at Tyrion and goes up to an 11 and that seemed forced even there.

Lena Headey takes "sinister" and "cruelty" to a new level in this show but man does she just **** the bed when it comes to emotion (with the exception of her story of her lone Baratheon child who died, imo).

Johnykbr
04-15-2014, 07:39 AM
Building off this... Bloodraven may have been responsible for Jon's entire creation.

We know Bloodraven went to the wall with Maester Aemon.

We know Bloodraven become Lord Commander and at some point left for the cave.

Bloodraven would have been exposed to the Starks' deepest thoughts through prayers all along.

Aemon communicated back and forth with Rhaegar.

So ultimately, Bloodraven had access to both Lyanna and Rhaegar, and Aemon certainly played a pivotal roll in elevating Jon Snow's status when he finally arrived at the wall.

1000 and 1, for sure.

Interesting theory. So then are you implying he is a supernatural Littlefinger or what exactly on the spectrum of good guy/bad guy is he then in your opinion?

Johnykbr
04-15-2014, 07:50 AM
I suppose they've got to introduce Coldhands (http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/088/7/3/cold_hands_by_zippo514-d5znqtp.jpg)... That's the part I'm most interested in seeing how they handle. And then the season will end with Bran reaching the tree.

Is there some new information that has you thinking he will show up?

Johnykbr
04-15-2014, 07:53 AM
I agree with your post, I just wanted to point out that Martin LOVES the Lannisters and has said that if he were in Westeros, he would've been a Lannister, himself.

I hadn't heard that but it makes way too much sense. It must have killed him to do what he did later in the series though.

Kaylore
04-15-2014, 07:54 AM
Bran is Frodo because they are both going somewhere and extralife doesn't like both of them so they are the same.

cutthemdown
04-15-2014, 07:57 AM
Wierd that people would discuss a show they don't like. Once I don't like a show I never watch it again or want to talk about it. To find much wrong with GOT you most likely call everything crap on TV, because compared to most of what is out there GOT is miles ahead.

Taco John
04-15-2014, 08:09 AM
Interesting theory. So then are you implying he is a supernatural Littlefinger or what exactly on the spectrum of good guy/bad guy is he then in your opinion?

If you read the tales of Dunk and Egg, you find that Blood Raven makes Littlefinger look like Podrick Payne.

Kaylore
04-15-2014, 08:32 AM
If you read the tales of Dunk and Egg, you find that Blood Raven makes Littlefinger look like Podrick Payne.

So Blood Raven has a really tiny penis?

Taco John
04-15-2014, 08:53 AM
Is there some new information that has you thinking he will show up?

I've seen nothing. I just can't hardly believe they would leave him entirely out of the story given how much theorizing his character has inspired among the book readers.

Taco John
04-15-2014, 08:56 AM
So Blood Raven has a really tiny penis?

It's actually detachable.

Johnykbr
04-15-2014, 10:30 AM
It's actually detachable.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/byDiILrNbM4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

myMind
04-15-2014, 11:12 AM
I'm going to at least give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend that by "Odysseus" you actually meant "The Odyssey."

I bring up Ulysses because you decided to bring up attention span for no reason. Most people who've read all the Song of Fire and Ice books multiple times would quit on Ulysses within ten pages.

In actuality I was just ****ing around with you because I don't agree with your opinion of Bran (In the books)

I was referring to the characters name in Roman and Greek. Not the name of the book.

Kaylore
04-15-2014, 12:20 PM
Could also be Martin's way of rolling his eyes and getting people to stfu about Coldhands and focus on the actual story.

No kidding. "Oh he's Benjen! Oh he's Bloodraven, who was for-ordained to choose Azor Ahai! Oh he's the Night's King still kicking around!"

I honestly think there are more interesting story arcs. Either we'll find out and be like "Oh! ok." and carry on, or we'll watch Jon Snow get turned into a white Walker and be leading the others in a war AGAINST Daenerys and Cold Hands becomes his minion and ultimately a non-factor.

Requiem
04-15-2014, 12:22 PM
Kaylore. . . oathbreaaaakaer.

extralife
04-15-2014, 05:25 PM
Wierd that people would discuss a show they don't like. Once I don't like a show I never watch it again or want to talk about it. To find much wrong with GOT you most likely call everything crap on TV, because compared to most of what is out there GOT is miles ahead.

where did I say I didn't like the show? I wasn't aware I had to be a slavish fanboy in order to enjoy something.

but then again, this is the internet.

Broncos_OTM
04-20-2014, 03:23 PM
I was pretty in dissapointed in Tue joffery whacking. Interesting how the tyrion line goes forward

Archer81
04-20-2014, 07:02 PM
Dany is pretty awesome.


:Broncos:

StugotsIII
04-20-2014, 07:07 PM
Eh....Episode was ok.

I'm actually not all that happy with Dani's storyline from here on in the books. It just totally bogs down...

broncolife
04-20-2014, 10:48 PM
Boring episode. Too much Sam and Gilly. I thought it was funny how they were making some characters more dislikable right before they get rid of them.

Archer81
04-21-2014, 06:13 AM
Wow, surprised at the tepid reaction. This was my favorite episode so far this season. Thought every scene was great... aside from the start of the Oberyn/Tywin scene.

He's bi and oversexed. We get it. They decided to focus on that far more heavily than his poisoning history (which wasn't mentioned at all before this one) and would have left Purple Wedding viewers with more intrigue.

I think HBO could have found a different reason to crowbar some dick into a scene if they really felt it was necessary.


It's HBO. They do not need a reason. And for balance they did start that scene with lesbian action.

Loved the Poderick/Tyrion scene, Tywin lecturing his grandson on what makes a good king over Joffrey's corpse and Daenryus' scene.

:Broncos:

v2micca
04-21-2014, 07:22 AM
Arya and the Hound was terrific. The Wildling raid was awesome. Jaime raping Cersei was a touch different but that whole scene from Tywin on was awesome... their set for the Sept was simply unbelievable.


The Jaimie Cersei scene kind of caught me off guard. It had been a while since I read the books but I don't remember that scene being rapey in the books. I went back and re-read it and I guess it was ambiguous enough that you could interpret it as rape. But, if the goal was to continue the redemption of the Jaimie Lanister character, they writers and directors just took a huge step backwards.

spdirty
04-21-2014, 08:06 AM
The Jaimie Cersei scene kind of caught me off guard. It had been a while since I read the books but I don't remember that scene being rapey in the books. I went back and re-read it and I guess it was ambiguous enough that you could interpret it as rape. But, if the goal was to continue the redemption of the Jaimie Lanister character, they writers and directors just took a huge step backwards.

He raped Cersei though so it wasn't as bad.

Kings Landing is screwed. He just needs to learn to fight with Bronn then take off with Bri and insult each other, screw every now and then, and have adventures with her.

Kaylore
04-21-2014, 08:19 AM
I gotta be careful how I say this, but I didn't think Jaime really raped her - in the book or how they showed it. I know, "No means no, Khan" but she was kissing him back and her protests seemed more concerned with the fact they were in the sept than she didn't want to do it. It felt like a step in Jaime re-taking his mojo.

Also felt Lena Headey looked like Keira Knightly in that scene.

Taco John
04-21-2014, 08:56 AM
"There was too much character development in this one. Where is all the death? Yawn."

v2micca
04-21-2014, 09:05 AM
I gotta be careful how I say this, but I didn't think Jaime really raped her - in the book or how they showed it. I know, "No means no, Khan" but she was kissing him back and her protests seemed more concerned with the fact they were in the sept than she didn't want to do it. It felt like a step in Jaime re-taking his mojo.

Also felt Lena Headey looked like Keira Knightly in that scene.


Its going to be a controversial scene, no doubt. And regardless if you think it was rape or not, it is a whole lot worse looking in the TV show than it was in the book.

IndelibleScribe
04-21-2014, 09:20 AM
Cersei wasn't raped. Her protests were due to them being next to their son's dead body.
She barely tried to stop him. Her harshest protests were when he was ripping her dress to make room for spearing her.

Drunk Monkey
04-21-2014, 09:28 AM
Cersei wasn't raped. Her protests were due to them being next to their son's dead body.
She barely tried to stop him. Her harshest protests were when he was ripping her dress to make room for spearing her.

idk, it looked pretty rapey to me. Definitely much worst then what I remember from the book.

Johnykbr
04-21-2014, 10:28 AM
But, if the goal was to continue the redemption of the Jaimie Lanister character, they writers and directors just took a huge step backwards.

I think this was their attempt to balance him since they lack an inner-monologue to show that Jaime still is a pretty nasty guy. For quite awhile now he has been made to look too positive but I agree, this was an odd route to take.

Bronc0guy
04-21-2014, 10:49 AM
Also felt Lena Headey looked like Keira Knightly in that scene.

I thought so too. The way her lower jaw was sticking out when she was talking at one point was identical to Knightly in POTC.

All in all I thought it was a good episode. There were some really strong scenes with the Wildlings, Dany, and the Hound\Arya. Of course nothing was going to match last week with Joffrey dying, but that was to be expected.

24champ
04-21-2014, 11:02 AM
Interesting developments in this episode.

Also remind me, who are the Judges for Tyrion's trial? Tywin Lannister and Oberyn, who else?

Requiem
04-21-2014, 11:09 AM
Interesting developments in this episode.

Also remind me, who are the Judges for Tyrion's trial? Tywin Lannister and Oberyn, who else?

Oleg?

BroncoMan4ever
04-21-2014, 11:49 AM
The Jaimie Cersei scene kind of caught me off guard. It had been a while since I read the books but I don't remember that scene being rapey in the books. I went back and re-read it and I guess it was ambiguous enough that you could interpret it as rape. But, if the goal was to continue the redemption of the Jaimie Lanister character, they writers and directors just took a huge step backwards.

My thinking exactly. Jaime was becoming a good man in the eyes of many viewers. He was showing himself to be more than what he is thought of and that one scene, even though Cercei is a horrible person just destroyed his redemption story. Now he is again just the a-hole Jaime Lannister instead of the troubled good man.

Also Daario was a ****ing boss.

JLesSPE
04-21-2014, 11:53 AM
My thinking exactly. Jaime was becoming a good man in the eyes of many viewers. He was showing himself to be more than what he is thought of and that one scene, even though Cercei is a horrible person just destroyed his redemption story. Now he is again just the a-hole Jaime Lannister instead of the troubled good man.

Also Daario was a ****ing boss.

That was a cool scene, but I kind of wish they had kept Strong Belwas in the story line. That was a pretty funny part in the book.

Johnykbr
04-21-2014, 11:57 AM
That was a cool scene, but I kind of wish they had kept Strong Belwas in the story line. That was a pretty funny part in the book.

Strong Belwas is amazing and is one of the main reasons I always tell people to read the books if they enjoy the show. Sure, he's a minor character but goddam does he bring it.

Drunk Monkey
04-21-2014, 12:04 PM
Strong Belwas is amazing and is one of the main reasons I always tell people to read the books if they enjoy the show. Sure, he's a minor character but goddam does he bring it.

The man likes his liver and onions.

BroncoMan4ever
04-21-2014, 12:04 PM
That was a cool scene, but I kind of wish they had kept Strong Belwas in the story line. That was a pretty funny part in the book.

True. Although I don't know how the viewing audience would have felt about a big fat guy dropping a deuce and then wiping his ass on on the cloak of the guy he just killed

JLesSPE
04-21-2014, 12:10 PM
True. Although I don't know how the viewing audience would have felt about a big fat guy dropping a deuce and then wiping his ass on on the cloak of the guy he just killed

That would've been epic

Johnykbr
04-21-2014, 12:10 PM
I must be missing something. He bored me. Maybe it's because that whole Dany segment he's in is boring and it bleeds into the characters for me too.

He was the only person that made 90 percent of the Dani chapters tolerable to me. Anyone who takes a dump on a guy's head after decapitating him gets my automatic attention for at least several books.

elsid13
04-21-2014, 02:21 PM
The whole switching actors for Daario still throws me for a loop.

Boobs McGee
04-21-2014, 06:59 PM
I don't care about balance. I care about emphasizing the actual plot as opposed to wasting time beating a dead horse just to crowbar in some more boobies and dick.

Arya and the Hound was terrific. The Wildling raid was awesome. Jaime raping Cersei was a touch different but that whole scene from Tywin on was awesome... their set for the Sept was simply unbelievable.

NSFW LANGUAGE!!!

But pretty hilarious and accurate:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/EUBiOOx0Pxw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

SleepingTiger
04-22-2014, 06:38 AM
like someone said earlier, why so much emphasis on sam and gilly?
dammit, where are all the good boob scenes?

for those who didn't read the book, who poisoned the king? all fingers are pointing at tywin. he knows he can't control joeffery and he knows joeffery would be the doom of westeros. so he has him killed and molds his younger brother into the king he outta be.

im shocked that tywin is not protecting tyrion. he is after all a lannister.

Johnykbr
04-22-2014, 07:11 AM
I just watched the episode again with my wife and two things. That sex scene was like a late night Cinemax soft core porn/action show. And, as my wife fully agreed, that was not rape as in the sense of she didn't want it but rather she just didn't want it there (my wife says it wasn't in both regards). I wish they would stop trying to shoehorn the nudity in there.

v2micca
04-22-2014, 07:17 AM
NSFW LANGUAGE!!!

But pretty hilarious and accurate:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/EUBiOOx0Pxw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Okay, that made me laugh.

Archer81
04-22-2014, 07:23 AM
like someone said earlier, why so much emphasis on sam and gilly?
dammit, where are all the good boob scenes?

1. for those who didn't read the book, who poisoned the king? all fingers are pointing at tywin. he knows he can't control joeffery and he knows joeffery would be the doom of westeros. so he has him killed and molds his younger brother into the king he outta be.

im shocked that tywin is not protecting tyrion. he is after all a lannister.


1. The scene where Joffrey was poisoned and the subsequent episode screams who did it. Tyrion is just the poor ass who gets in the way.

2. Tywin believes Tyrion is responsible for the death of his wife. And because he has no proof Tyrion isnt his son, he begrudgingly accepts that he is a Lannister. But there is no love there. He protects the name, not the person carrying it.

:Broncos:

Garcia Bronco
04-22-2014, 07:37 AM
It amuses me that people think/thought of Jamie L as a "Good Guy". He has never, nor is he a "Good Guy". He pushed a kid out of a window. He ****s his sister and goes along with illegitmate ruler because of it. What...you think he's a "Good Guy" because he killed a made king and saved a woman from a bear. GTFO

IndelibleScribe
04-22-2014, 09:12 AM
It amuses me that people think/thought of Jamie L as a "Good Guy". He has never, nor is he a "Good Guy". He pushed a kid out of a window. He ****s his sister and goes along with illegitmate ruler because of it. What...you think he's a "Good Guy" because he killed a made king and saved a woman from a bear. GTFO

His character goes on a major redemption arc in the books.
That is why he and Tyrion are the only liked Lannisters in the series for the most part.

spdirty
04-22-2014, 09:28 AM
His character goes on a major redemption arc in the books.
That is why he and Tyrion are the only liked Lannisters in the series for the most part.

I've always really liked Tywin.

SleepingTiger
04-22-2014, 09:28 AM
1. The scene where Joffrey was poisoned and the subsequent episode screams who did it. Tyrion is just the poor ass who gets in the way.

2. Tywin believes Tyrion is responsible for the death of his wife. And because he has no proof Tyrion isnt his son, he begrudgingly accepts that he is a Lannister. But there is no love there. He protects the name, not the person carrying it.

:Broncos:

it might scream out who poisoned him, but they made it too damn obvious. because i didn't read the book, i will say there will be some twist and it will be a complete shocker who poisoned joeffery.

i know its tywin killing 2 birds with one stone, but part of me keeps thinking that there is a part of tywin that respects tyrion for his intellect. tywin doesn't have a choice, he wants jamie to carry on the lannister name, but jaime doesn't care for it. his only choice is tyrion because he is smart and capable. maybe his only hope is for the children of tyrion and sansa when they become of age to carry on the lannister name.

SleepingTiger
04-22-2014, 09:37 AM
I've always really liked Tywin.

the guy is a bad ass. he outsmarted the starks and grandma tyrell.

Fedaykin
04-22-2014, 09:38 AM
it might scream out who poisoned him, but they made it too damn obvious. because i didn't read the book, i will say there will be some twist and it will be a complete shocker who poisoned joeffery.

i know its tywin killing 2 birds with one stone, but part of me keeps thinking that there is a part of tywin that respects tyrion for his intellect. tywin doesn't have a choice, he wants jamie to carry on the lannister name, but jaime doesn't care for it. his only choice is tyrion because he is smart and capable. maybe his only hope is for the children of tyrion and sansa when they become of age to carry on the lannister name.

;)

Garcia Bronco
04-22-2014, 09:46 AM
LOL I'm assuming you haven't read the books?

Once the series on TV is over I will read the books, but it doesn't matter in my mind...he's a dirtbag. I would be beyond impressed if that were to change.

Garcia Bronco
04-22-2014, 09:52 AM
the guy is a bad ass. he outsmarted the starks and grandma tyrell.

he is a badass IMO.

IndelibleScribe
04-22-2014, 10:07 AM
I've always really liked Tywin.

He is a bad ass. But in terms of being liked by the fans overall.
The Lannisters are hated(which they are supposed to be).
However they seem to be the only family with enough brains to actually rule properly.

Every other family who stakes a claim does so without the forethought of proper planning and securing alliances.

spdirty
04-22-2014, 10:21 AM
He is a bad ass. But in terms of being liked by the fans overall.
The Lannisters are hated(which they are supposed to be).
However they seem to be the only family with enough brains to actually rule properly.

Every other family who stakes a claim does so without the forethought of proper planning and securing alliances.

I haven't read it, I've only watched the series as well as cliff notes from youtube, that comicgirl19 has some excellent videos explaining the histories of house stark, lannister, and targaryan, and from what I gather is that the only time **** was being run well was when Tywin was the mad kings hand.

If I was living in that setting I'd be extremely happy seeing Tommen getting brought up properly by Tywin.

Although life sucks the big one if he's either your enemy or your daddy.

Johnykbr
04-22-2014, 10:23 AM
the guy is a bad ass. he outsmarted the starks and grandma tyrell.

Where do you think he outsmarted the Queen of Thorns?

SleepingTiger
04-22-2014, 10:30 AM
He is a bad ass. But in terms of being liked by the fans overall.
The Lannisters are hated(which they are supposed to be).
However they seem to be the only family with enough brains to actually rule properly.

Every other family who stakes a claim does so without the forethought of proper planning and securing alliances.

what you mean? i love the lannisters.

1. Tywin: not only is he smart, strong and don't take not crap, he cares more about his family (name) than what he wants. they guy is devoted to the lannister legacy and not his desires! if his children had his devotion, the lannisters would rule all the lands.

2. Jaime: he is the swordsman that we love to emulate in rpg's. he is arrogant, but can back it all up because he is the best fighter in westeros. i know, he isn't to smart and gets verbally abused every episode. he doesn't need brains, thats why he's got tyrion.

3. cersei: she is beautiful, somewhat smart and a loving mother who don't take crap from anyone! c'mon, when margery start talking about how they will be sisters, cersei told her to gtfo and will kill her if she ever hears that crap again.

4. tyrion: the guy is smart, cunning, full of sarcasm. the only guy who has the nuts to stand up to joeffery and tywin. the way he out witted the tulleys. who didn't love it when his hand fell from the sky and smacked the **** out of joeffery twice.

5. joeffery: yes every family has a bad seed.

SleepingTiger
04-22-2014, 10:38 AM
Where do you think he outsmarted the Queen of Thorns?

when the tyrells tried to mary sansa to loras tyrell and steal the north, not only did tywin came in to stop it, he forced grandma to his terms of loras marrying cersei. grandma was completely taken off guard. even grandma had to admit she was outwitted by him.

Requiem
04-22-2014, 10:43 AM
2. Jaime: he is the swordsman that we love to emulate in rpg's. he is arrogant, but can back it all up because he is the best fighter in westeros.

Best fighter in Westeros with one hand?

Johnykbr
04-22-2014, 10:55 AM
when the tyrells tried to mary sansa to loras tyrell and steal the north, not only did tywin came in to stop it, he forced grandma to his terms of loras marrying cersei. grandma was completely taken off guard. even grandma had to admit she was outwitted by him.

Sure, but when it's all said and done, Olenna wins.

SleepingTiger
04-22-2014, 11:20 AM
Best fighter in Westeros with one hand?

well, he was the best swordsman before he lost his hand. i have no reason to doubt he will be able to wield the sword just as good as his right hand one day. anyways, the metal hand makes for a viscous punch.

Sure, but when it's all said and done, Olenna wins.

i haven't read the book, i can only tell you what has happened so far. at this point, he is one up on grandma. i have no doubt that grandma scheming something. up to this point, the tyrells are at a disadvantage. margery is not the queen. loras is set to marry cersei or risk never having an heir.

anyone have any ideas who tommen will marry? i doubt it will be margery. so any ties the tyrell have to the throne is all but dead. maybe the only match for tommen will be arya stark!

Johnykbr
04-22-2014, 11:26 AM
i haven't read the book, i can only tell you what has happened so far. at this point, he is one up on grandma. i have no doubt that grandma scheming something. up to this point, the tyrells are at a disadvantage. margery is not the queen. loras is set to marry cersei or risk never having an heir.

anyone have any ideas who tommen will marry? i doubt it will be margery. so any ties the tyrell have to the throne is all but dead. maybe the only match for tommen will be arya stark!

Now you get to watch Olenna work her magic.

Archer81
04-22-2014, 12:12 PM
when the tyrells tried to mary sansa to loras tyrell and steal the north, not only did tywin came in to stop it, he forced grandma to his terms of loras marrying cersei. grandma was completely taken off guard. even grandma had to admit she was outwitted by him.


And Joffrey ends up dead.

What a coincidence, that happening when deals where made between the Lannisters and the Tyrells.

You have to ask yourself, who benefits from Joffrey dying? It is not Tywin. And obviously not Tyrion or Sansa.

:Broncos:

Garcia Bronco
04-22-2014, 12:17 PM
And Joffrey ends up dead.

What a coincidence, that happening when deals where made between the Lannisters and the Tyrells.

You have to ask yourself, who benefits from Joffrey dying? It is not Tywin. And obviously not Tyrion or Sansa.

:Broncos:

IHRtB but everyone alive benefits from him dying, but clearly grandma Tyrell was part of the conspiracy to kill Joffery. She's the one that actually posioned him.

Archer81
04-22-2014, 12:22 PM
IHRtB but everyone alive benefits from him dying, but clearly grandma Tyrell was part of the conspiracy to kill Joffery. She's the one that actually posioned him.


Indeed. And while I believe the Tyrells are "decent" when compared to the Lannisters, throwing Tyrion and Sansa to the lions is a prickish thing to do. And while everyone benefits from Joffrey dying, the death of a king, even an evil one leaves power vacuums.

:Broncos:

Garcia Bronco
04-22-2014, 12:23 PM
Indeed. And while I believe the Tyrells are "decent" when compared to the Lannisters, throwing Tyrion and Sansa to the lions is a prickish thing to do. And while everyone benefits from Joffrey dying, the death of a king, even an evil one leaves power vacuums.

:Broncos:

I don't think they planned to have Tyrion take the blame...it just worked out that way. Or it could be that Little Fingerdid it to get Sansa...but I could be wrong. Poor Sansa can't catch a break.

Archer81
04-22-2014, 12:28 PM
I don't think they planned to have Tyrion take the blame...it just worked out that way. Or it could be that Little Fingerdid it to get Sansa...but I could be wrong. Poor Sansa can't catch a break.


Sansa is a character I strongly dislike. How can her and Arya be related at all? Little finger having Sansa (last living Stark...) gives him a claim to the north, especially if he can marry her. Creepy bastard.

My memory is not clear about the specifics of Joffrey's death. I need to reread that book. But they may not have intended to have it fall on Tyrion and Sansa, but it did.


:Broncos:

SleepingTiger
04-22-2014, 12:30 PM
And Joffrey ends up dead.

What a coincidence, that happening when deals where made between the Lannisters and the Tyrells.

You have to ask yourself, who benefits from Joffrey dying? It is not Tywin. And obviously not Tyrion or Sansa.

:Broncos:

maybe i don't understand much about kings and queens, but is margery still the queen? by default, isn't tommen now the king? if so, how does this benefit the tyrells?

Garcia Bronco
04-22-2014, 12:37 PM
Sansa is a character I strongly dislike. How can her and Arya be related at all? Little finger having Sansa (last living Stark...) gives him a claim to the north, especially if he can marry her. Creepy bastard.

My memory is not clear about the specifics of Joffrey's death. I need to reread that book. But they may not have intended to have it fall on Tyrion and Sansa, but it did.


:Broncos:

They don't knwo that there are two surviving male heirs at this point so all Sansa is a high born womb.

Archer81
04-22-2014, 12:40 PM
maybe i don't understand much about kings and queens, but is margery still the queen? by default, isn't tommen now the king? if so, how does this benefit the tyrells?


Cersei is the Dowager Queen, due to her husband dying. She is only queen regent because her unmarried (at the time) son lacked a wife. As soon as they said I do, or Joffrey becomes of age, she ceases/d to be queen.

Tommen is the king. At the moment. Maybe.

And you really need to read the books. There is so much the show cannot cover that you miss.

:Broncos:

Archer81
04-22-2014, 12:44 PM
They don't knwo that there are two surviving male heirs at this point so all Sansa is a high born womb.


They don't know, but we do. Sansa should fall third (if I am right) in the line of succession. Behind her living brothers, and ahead of her sister and half brother. And I am aware of the mystery surrounding Jon Snow.

And a high born womb still has the correct parentage to claim the North. I never got the impression from the GoT books that succession was distinctly male line dominated.

:Broncos:

Garcia Bronco
04-22-2014, 12:45 PM
maybe i don't understand much about kings and queens, but is margery still the queen? by default, isn't tommen now the king? if so, how does this benefit the tyrells?

That their daughter isn't married to the bastard moron king.

SleepingTiger
04-22-2014, 12:46 PM
Cersei is the Dowager Queen, due to her husband dying. She is only queen regent because her unmarried (at the time) son lacked a wife. As soon as they said I do, or Joffrey becomes of age, she ceases/d to be queen.

Tommen is the king. At the moment. Maybe.

And you really need to read the books. There is so much the show cannot cover that you miss.

:Broncos:

ill read the book after i watch the show. everytime u read the book, it ruins the show.

anyways, if tommen is the king, how does this benefit the tyrells? does this mean the tyrells are no longer linked to the throne? if, granny did poison joeffery, wouldn't it be better that she waited until margery had a son so the tyrells are linked to the throne and the lannisters are out?

im completely lost now.

SleepingTiger
04-22-2014, 12:50 PM
That their daughter isn't married to the bastard moron king.

so why ask for the marriage in the first place? yes they didn't know about how evil joeffery is. but, when sansa said how bad joeffery was, granny and margery acted like "is that it? we got this fool". and remember, margery had joeffery eating out of her hands. she can manipulate him somewhat and turn joeffery against the lannisters.

Archer81
04-22-2014, 12:56 PM
ill read the book after i watch the show. everytime u read the book, it ruins the show.

anyways, if tommen is the king, how does this benefit the tyrells? does this mean the tyrells are no longer linked to the throne? if, granny did poison joeffery, wouldn't it be better that she waited until margery had a son so the tyrells are linked to the throne and the lannisters are out?

im completely lost now.


Maergery's first husband, Renley Baratheon, was murdered. Granted, Renley was married to her and boning her brother, but that is neither here nor there. Which means originally they believed the rumors about joffrey's parentage being true, that he is the son of a brother and sister, and that a real Baratheon would have a claim to the throne.

None of the Tyrells presented so far in the show have any reason to love the Lannisters. Vengeance is a very real motive for them. But Joffrey off the throne opens up opportunities, and in some ways ties the Lannisters more firmly to the Tyrells. Gold and food has been a theme this season. Who has both?

You have to remember the show is called Game of Thrones. Every single house with a name is playing. The Tyrells want the Iron Throne as much as the Lannisters, Baratheons or Targaryens do.

:Broncos:

Archer81
04-22-2014, 12:57 PM
so why ask for the marriage in the first place? yes they didn't know about how evil joeffery is. but, when sansa said how bad joeffery was, granny and margery acted like "is that it? we got this fool". and remember, margery had joeffery eating out of her hands. she can manipulate him somewhat and turn joeffery against the lannisters.

That would never happen. Joffrey probably would have had Maergery killed at some point. He is the epitome of entitled evil bastard. The worst thing you can do is assume you know how he will react. If his grandfather could not control him, there is no way his wife could.

:Broncos:

SleepingTiger
04-22-2014, 01:24 PM
Maergery's first husband, Renley Baratheon, was murdered. Granted, Renley was married to her and boning her brother, but that is neither here nor there. Which means originally they believed the rumors about joffrey's parentage being true, that he is the son of a brother and sister, and that a real Baratheon would have a claim to the throne.

None of the Tyrells presented so far in the show have any reason to love the Lannisters. Vengeance is a very real motive for them. But Joffrey off the throne opens up opportunities, and in some ways ties the Lannisters more firmly to the Tyrells. Gold and food has been a theme this season. Who has both?

You have to remember the show is called Game of Thrones. Every single house with a name is playing. The Tyrells want the Iron Throne as much as the Lannisters, Baratheons or Targaryens do.

:Broncos:

ok, u gotta explain it to me from the perspective of the show and not the book. what reason does the tyrells hate the lannisters and want vengeance?

i see it this way, any chance the tyrells had of capturing the throne died with joeffery. their only shot was her to have his son and the king dying making the tyrells owners of the throne.

i understand the tyrells knew about joeffery, but they clearly thought all was lost when renley died. so they ran over to lannisters. if anything, it should be the lannisters who want vengeance since the tyrells try to stand against them.

SleepingTiger
04-22-2014, 01:26 PM
That would never happen. Joffrey probably would have had Maergery killed at some point. He is the epitome of entitled evil bastard. The worst thing you can do is assume you know how he will react. If his grandfather could not control him, there is no way his wife could.

:Broncos:

you're correct, if and only if margery wasn't even more evil than he is. granny and margery is way too smart.

Drunk Monkey
04-22-2014, 01:33 PM
It's kind of funny watching you non readers stumble around like drunk midgets trying to figure out what's going on.

BroncsRule
04-22-2014, 01:41 PM
Cersei is the Dowager Queen, due to her husband dying. She is only queen regent because her unmarried (at the time) son lacked a wife. As soon as they said I do, or Joffrey becomes of age, she ceases/d to be queen.

Tommen is the king. At the moment. Maybe.

And you really need to read the books. There is so much the show cannot cover that you miss.

:Broncos:

Cersei is Queen Regent again, because she is the mother of the new king, Tommen, who has not yet come of age. Of course, the Lannisters have to get on the stick and hold a Coronation.

Margery's problem is that she and Joffrey said the words, but did not do the deed. Medieval cultures (including Westros) placed great store in "the Bedding".. "No Bedding, no Wedding".

Of course, Stanis' camp would say Tommen is illegitimate and the spawn of incest, therefore not fit to sit the Iron Throne.

Danny is the Last Targarian (as of right now in the HBO timeline), and there are still characters in Westros who assert Robert's rebellion was unlawful, and all that has happened since is moot, under the law.

The Starks are all but done, from what is "known": No one in the capital knows that Arya, Bran or Riccon are alive, and Sansa just disappeared. Jon Snow is a Bastard. The dream of a King in the North is on the ropes, to say the least.

The Greyjoys have a great deal of autonomy, as there is no navy capable of challenging them in the Western Sea. Balon's claim of being King of the Iron Islands is hard to dispute at this point.

And of course, Dorn is Dorn. For the non book readers, that doesn't mean squat, I realize, but suffice to say, Dorn has the most autonomy of all.

Garcia Bronco
04-22-2014, 01:43 PM
It's kind of funny watching you non readers stumble around like drunk midgets trying to figure out what's going on.

That's the fun.

Garcia Bronco
04-22-2014, 01:44 PM
Cersei is Queen Regent again, because she is the mother of the new king, Tommen, who has not yet come of age. Of course, the Lannisters have to get on the stick and hold a Coronation.

Margery's problem is that she and Joffrey said the words, but did not do the deed. Medieval cultures (including Westros) placed great store in "the Bedding".. "No Bedding, no Wedding".

Of course, Stanis' camp would say Tommen is illegitimate and the spawn of incest, therefore not fit to sit the Iron Throne.

Danny is the Last Targarian (as of right now in the HBO timeline), and there are still characters in Westros who assert Robert's rebellion was unlawful, and all that has happened since is moot, under the law.

The Starks are all but done, from what is "known": No one in the capital knows that Arya, Bran or Riccon are alive, and Sansa just disappeared. Jon Snow is a Bastard. The dream of a King in the North is on the ropes, to say the least.

The Greyjoys have a great deal of autonomy, as there is no navy capable of challenging them in the Western Sea. Balon's claim of being King of the Iron Islands is hard to dispute at this point.

And of course, Dorn is Dorn. For the non book readers, that doesn't mean squat, I realize, but suffice to say, Dorn has the most autonomy of all.

I am none book reader, but I know that during the war of conquest Dorne was not included for some reason and was actually brought into the "7 Kingdoms" through diplomacy

Kaylore
04-22-2014, 01:45 PM
It's kind of funny watching you non readers stumble around like drunk midgets trying to figure out what's going on.

They're also spared some of the aggravation and anticipation, though.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnez2pjpvL1qm2yhlo1_500.png

slick7
04-22-2014, 02:06 PM
So who poisoned Joffrey? My girlfriend thinks it was the fool who gave Sansa the necklace. Or Sansa herself.

Archer81
04-22-2014, 02:38 PM
Cersei is Queen Regent again, because she is the mother of the new king, Tommen, who has not yet come of age. Of course, the Lannisters have to get on the stick and hold a Coronation.

Margery's problem is that she and Joffrey said the words, but did not do the deed. Medieval cultures (including Westros) placed great store in "the Bedding".. "No Bedding, no Wedding".

Of course, Stanis' camp would say Tommen is illegitimate and the spawn of incest, therefore not fit to sit the Iron Throne.

Danny is the Last Targarian (as of right now in the HBO timeline), and there are still characters in Westros who assert Robert's rebellion was unlawful, and all that has happened since is moot, under the law.

The Starks are all but done, from what is "known": No one in the capital knows that Arya, Bran or Riccon are alive, and Sansa just disappeared. Jon Snow is a Bastard. The dream of a King in the North is on the ropes, to say the least.

The Greyjoys have a great deal of autonomy, as there is no navy capable of challenging them in the Western Sea. Balon's claim of being King of the Iron Islands is hard to dispute at this point.

And of course, Dorn is Dorn. For the non book readers, that doesn't mean squat, I realize, but suffice to say, Dorn has the most autonomy of all.


I know. I was answering when Joffrey was still alive. It is hard to explain the show to people who have not read the books without giving anything away.

My mother and brother have frequent discussions about the paternity of a certain bastard, which I believe got covered somewhere in this thread. So crazy.


:Broncos:

Kaylore
04-22-2014, 02:45 PM
And Joffrey ends up dead.

What a coincidence, that happening when deals where made between the Lannisters and the Tyrells.

You have to ask yourself, who benefits from Joffrey dying? It is not Tywin. And obviously not Tyrion or Sansa.

:Broncos:

Well, let's say someone originally wanted Sansa to Marry one of their kids and then the Lannisters stoled her away for the Dwarf. Killing the king after your daughter weds him, then framing Tyrion for murder and removing the last known Stark heir from their family sure seems like a nifty solution...

BroncsRule
04-22-2014, 03:31 PM
I know. I was answering when Joffrey was still alive. It is hard to explain the show to people who have not read the books without giving anything away.

My mother and brother have frequent discussions about the paternity of a certain bastard, which I believe got covered somewhere in this thread. So crazy.


:Broncos:

Indeed. Seem to be lots of non-readers in the thread at this point, so we'll leave it there.

Taco John
04-23-2014, 12:21 AM
So who poisoned Joffrey? My girlfriend thinks it was the fool who gave Sansa the necklace. Or Sansa herself.

Follow the cup, you'll get your answer...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5ScY2o3rpI

SleepingTiger
04-23-2014, 06:13 AM
Follow the cup, you'll get your answer...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5ScY2o3rpI

how do we know it was the wine and not the cake?

2KBack
04-23-2014, 06:17 AM
how do we know it was the wine and not the cake?

That is made clear right away in the books. I hope that doesn't count as a spoiler.

kappys
04-23-2014, 06:53 AM
Its been a while since I've read the books, these shows just continue to reinforce how brilliant GRRM is. Afterall everyone is still playing the game of thrones aren't they?

- Tywin now has control over Tommen, with Cersei soon to be shipped off to Highgarden where she can't do any damage

- The Queen of Thrones is rid of Joff still has her daughter - and still manages to bargain her into a position of power as you will see

- Balon Greyjoy seems mostly content to remain an independent regional pirate, once Euron arrives the Greyjoys are now playing for the throne

- Stannis, Davos, the Iron Bank of Bravos and before too long Wymon Manderly and young Rickon Stark

- Illyrio, the Spider, Aegon, and the Golden Company

- The prince of Dorne has not yet chosen a true alliance yet, but I suspect will rally to Aegons cause

- Of course Danaerys if she wasn't bogged down to the East.

2KBack
04-23-2014, 07:28 AM
Check it out, this guy is pretty much on the exact same page:

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/23p48r/the_true_nature_and_purpose_of_the_others_and_the/

Very concise, and fits perfectly. Would be brilliant really. The concept of creating balance of political power through marriage is a constantly running theme of the story.

Johnykbr
04-23-2014, 08:52 AM
That is a great theory in that link but as someone said in the thread, there are some holes. I agree with his assumption that the Others aren't looking for genocide because isn't what happens at Hardhome exactly that?

I don't think the whole Targaryen thing plays in quite so heavily because Valyria rose and fell long after the Others disappeared and they invaded several hundred years (and visited the wall with a dragon) before their return.

Requiem
04-23-2014, 09:43 AM
That is an interesting theory, Rev.

Requiem
04-23-2014, 09:49 AM
Just an interesting idea to mess with. Only a few people really know :/

No matter what, Bran is the man. He basically doubled in size from last season.

Johnykbr
04-23-2014, 10:01 AM
Flaw in your logic:

Targ =/= Dragon

just as

Stark =/= Other

Not really, one of the core elements of that argument was that a Stark had to remain in Winterfell and married an Other. Therefore the Starks represent Ice and are a continuous factor. On the flip side, it says Daenarys is the reincarnation of AA which is in fact bad for the Others. So what makes her so special in the equation when the Targs/Valyrians controlled the lands below the Wall, had dragons, made the Starks kneel, and even took those dragons to the wall (which according to that theory was the demarcation agreed upon by the Starks and Others and the possible intrusion was a threat to the Others which got them into action.

The whole theory reads very well like a prophecy but then there is the outlier that is Dany which comes from nowhere. It would be a fantastic read and would make for an amazing twist though.

TL : DR...Dany is the square peg in the theory board full of round holes and round pegs.

Johnykbr
04-23-2014, 10:02 AM
No matter what, Bran is the man. He basically doubled in size from last season.

He is just downright unpleasant to look at now. He used to be a cute little kid but man did puberty just smack him around.

Taco John
04-23-2014, 10:16 AM
how do we know it was the wine and not the cake?

The poison was on Sansa's necklace. Lady Olenna musses with her talking about how terrible it was that her family was killed at a wedding reception, while herself, plucking a poison pearl from the necklace. The pie was especially dry - you'll see Joffrey takes a bite and immediately calls for his cup bearer...

SleepingTiger
04-23-2014, 10:47 AM
The thread title is very clearly labeled.

wait a minute. i usually don't watch the new episodes until the next day or tuesday. so i don't read this thread until sometime tuesday or weds. is it safe to assume you book readers wont do any spoilers that haven't yet aired on HBO?

SleepingTiger
04-23-2014, 11:02 AM
Not even a little bit.

There's a diff thread for tv people, though. :thumbsup:

that sucks considering the only this thread exist is because of the HBO series.

Johnykbr
04-23-2014, 11:33 AM
I'm not seeing how you think any of that doesn't fit?

If Dany is AA and Bran is the Great Other, they're absolutely 100% offset.

I must not be grasping it but my point is that Bran makes sense due to the family name and Bran the Builder so the Starks were there from the beginning. But there is no connection between AA and the Valyrians, let alone the Targs, except for an affinity for fire.

Bran's or Jon Snow's role makes perfect sense in this theory. Dany's role as AA seems to just be because they need someone to be the counterpoint of The Great Other.

SleepingTiger
04-23-2014, 12:38 PM
How does that suck? It's helpful to YOU that there's a separate thread just for watchers.

There's a billion spoilers in the past couple pages alone...

thats alot of spoilers

Kaylore
04-23-2014, 12:42 PM
thats alot of spoilers

He counted them.

DivineLegion
04-24-2014, 10:07 AM
The description of AA fits Dany very well, actually:

"6) Daenerys Targaryen

Far and away the most likely candidate for Azor Ahai, Dany fits all the requirements. She awoke the dragons out of her petrified stone eggs, on the very night she spotted the comet for the first time. (GoT, pg. 804). That night, there was smoke from the funeral pyre and salt from Dany’s tears. And she was ‘reborn’ in the sense that she emerged from the fire a stronger person--a leader whom the Dothraki would follow.

But how does Dany’s story match up with Salladhor’s? Well, one suggestion has been that her dragons are actually Lightbringer, because they can produce fire. This makes a great amount of sense. Like Azor Ahai, Dany tried three times to make her weapon--once while putting them on a brazier (GoT, pg. 593), once while coming out of her fevered nightmares (GoT, pg. 753-754), and finally succeeding on the third try at Drogo’s pyre. Also, like Azor Ahai, Dany sacrificed her spouse to make her weapon, and drew the weapon out of a fire.

Other people merely think that Lightbringer is still a sword, and perhaps Dany will find it elsewhere, maybne in Asshai or far east.

But the fact remains that, of all the candidates, Dany is the only one who has woken dragons out of stone. Unless another character is going to accomplish the same thing, Dany seems like a safe bet to be Azor Ahai reborn."

This, and the fact that the Red Priests have an uncanny fascination for her, though she hasn't encountered one as of yet, she will very soon. Is the masked women (I can't remember her name) a red priest? If so, her power to prophecy Danys turmoils, and her power to connect with her anywhere should also be considered.

One Billion and One

Old Dude
04-25-2014, 05:55 AM
Just got caught up with the TV series last night.

The main thing that strikes me is the streamlining. Obviously, Strong Belwas is out and I'm now doubting, more than ever, that we'll see Coldhands since Bran's vision has now told him exactly where to go. No real need for a "guide" at this point.

Ramsey is now charged with the taking of Moat Cailin (rather than the occupation of Winterfell) so the whole Mance Rayder traveling troupe thing may be out.

Interesting that Jon Snow now has a motivation to head north of the wall (to silence the mutineers) which could change how and when that circumstance comes about.

Shae's been on a different track for some time now. And now has completely different motivation for what comes next - which, in turn should affect Tyrion's story line.

The Cersei rape thing was far more rape-like, which makes some sense since, in the series, Jaime has already been back at KL for weeks. Pretty big speed bump for him on the potential redemption trail, but on the other hand, it accelerates the distancing of those two in a more understandable manner.

Balon Greyjoy still alive and kicking? I'm assuming that's mainly because Euron and Vic are major roles that haven't been cast yet, so the writers don't want to move too fast. But now I'm wondering if we'll even see them both.

I'm sure purists will be upset about one or more of those things, but it does make the show more interesting and unpredictable since it's now telling a somewhat different story.

I'm assuming the endpoint remains the same, whatever that may turn out to be, but who knows?

Johnykbr
04-25-2014, 09:21 AM
Just got caught up with the TV series last night.

The main thing that strikes me is the streamlining. Obviously, Strong Belwas is out and I'm now doubting, more than ever, that we'll see Coldhands since Bran's vision has now told him exactly where to go. No real need for a "guide" at this point.

Ramsey is now charged with the taking of Moat Cailin (rather than the occupation of Winterfell) so the whole Mance Rayder traveling troupe thing may be out.

Interesting that Jon Snow now has a motivation to head north of the wall (to silence the mutineers) which could change how and when that circumstance comes about.

Shae's been on a different track for some time now. And now has completely different motivation for what comes next - which, in turn should affect Tyrion's story line.

The Cersei rape thing was far more rape-like, which makes some sense since, in the series, Jaime has already been back at KL for weeks. Pretty big speed bump for him on the potential redemption trail, but on the other hand, it accelerates the distancing of those two in a more understandable manner.

Balon Greyjoy still alive and kicking? I'm assuming that's mainly because Euron and Vic are major roles that haven't been cast yet, so the writers don't want to move too fast. But now I'm wondering if we'll even see them both.

I'm sure purists will be upset about one or more of those things, but it does make the show more interesting and unpredictable since it's now telling a somewhat different story.

I'm assuming the endpoint remains the same, whatever that may turn out to be, but who knows?

Considering that HBO now knows the ending, I'm reading into deviations much more than I would otherwise. The way I see it is that as of the 3rd season, which I believe is when GRRM really spelled out his vision to them, any character that doesn't show up is nixed for budget or just doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. I'm beginning to think that Coldhands falls under the latter. It's not the first character that the readers fell in love with that GRRM doesn't care about.

Taco John
04-25-2014, 10:25 AM
I wonder if they're setting up Shae to take Tysha's place with Tyrion?

Haven't they already mentioned that Tyrion was previously married in a small council meeting?

DivineLegion
04-25-2014, 10:29 AM
Haven't they already mentioned that Tyrion was previously married in a small council meeting?

Yes, I'm pretty sure they even mentioned her in the first few episodes.

Harvitz81
04-25-2014, 11:18 AM
I meant more of take her place as the lost love he's still searching for, but yeah, never mind Ha!

I still think they use her in that storyline as the lost love "where do whores go" when he goes east. Will be upset if they don't play out the book storyline with Shae.

Johnykbr
04-25-2014, 11:20 AM
Lena Headey just dropped a potential spoiler regarding a certain lady's heart.

http://instagram.com/p/nEeNM0PA3L/#

Johnykbr
04-25-2014, 11:23 AM
Will be upset if they don't play out the book storyline with Shae.

Big time for me. I loved the fact that he makes some characters that just you think have changed for the better then you find out they had no redeeming qualities.

Taco John
04-25-2014, 11:24 AM
Here it is... One of my favorite scenes, actually...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVfClyxJOHA

myMind
04-25-2014, 11:45 AM
The description of AA fits Dany very well, actually:

"6) Daenerys Targaryen

Far and away the most likely candidate for Azor Ahai, Dany fits all the requirements. She awoke the dragons out of her petrified stone eggs, on the very night she spotted the comet for the first time. (GoT, pg. 804). That night, there was smoke from the funeral pyre and salt from Dany’s tears. And she was ‘reborn’ in the sense that she emerged from the fire a stronger person--a leader whom the Dothraki would follow.

But how does Dany’s story match up with Salladhor’s? Well, one suggestion has been that her dragons are actually Lightbringer, because they can produce fire. This makes a great amount of sense. Like Azor Ahai, Dany tried three times to make her weapon--once while putting them on a brazier (GoT, pg. 593), once while coming out of her fevered nightmares (GoT, pg. 753-754), and finally succeeding on the third try at Drogo’s pyre. Also, like Azor Ahai, Dany sacrificed her spouse to make her weapon, and drew the weapon out of a fire.

Other people merely think that Lightbringer is still a sword, and perhaps Dany will find it elsewhere, maybne in Asshai or far east.

But the fact remains that, of all the candidates, Dany is the only one who has woken dragons out of stone. Unless another character is going to accomplish the same thing, Dany seems like a safe bet to be Azor Ahai reborn."

Jon's last scene in the most recent book has a bleeding star, smoke/steam rising, and salt(tears). Given that R + L = J holds true he is of the blood of the dragon as well. If the PtwP/AA are one in the same it has to be Jon. He has both Ice and Fire in his blood. Dany has no connection to ice. I really think it's Jon.

DivineLegion
04-25-2014, 11:47 AM
I meant more of take her place as the lost love he's still searching for, but yeah, never mind Ha!


You're probably spot on, I was just confirming TJs incination. The reason you may be on to something though is the sheer disconnect between show and novel that can only be breached by altered story lines like your suggestion, and that's the inability of film to portray thought. Most of Tyrions struggle is internal, and there is almost no way of showing that without tweaking the story some line you suggested. First of all, it would be easier for the show watchers to relate, and second it would give the writers a means of circumventing his constant forelorn thoughts.

I'm also assuming they have just axed the character of Penny as well.

DivineLegion
04-25-2014, 11:53 AM
Jon's last scene in the most recent book has a bleeding star, smoke/steam rising, and salt(tears). Given that R + L = J holds true he is of the blood of the dragon as well. If the PtwP/AA are one in the same it has to be Jon. He has both Ice and Fire in his blood. Dany has no connection to ice. I really think it's Jon.


I think you missed something. The idea is that Azar Ahi is supposed to be a champion of Rhollar, and therefore a fire focused individual. So, Jon being ice and fire wouldn't be that person.

Taco John
04-25-2014, 01:08 PM
Perhaps Jon is Azor Ahai AND the Great Other?

/just spitballin' here

DivineLegion
04-25-2014, 01:48 PM
Perhaps Jon is Azor Ahai AND the Great Other?

/just spitballin' here

What about Jamie? Isn't there some disconnect as to whether or not he and Cersei are acctually Tiwans children? I thought Kevan Lannister was alluding to that fact when he was talking to someone in ADWD.

DivineLegion
04-25-2014, 02:35 PM
Yeah it's possible Aerys is their dad.

According to the Ragnarok theory OD posted a ways back, Jaime is the PwwP.

Would be simply awesome.

With his character arc I would assume he's going to play an important role in the finale. I hope its a tragic redemption story honestly. One where Jamie "the king slayer" gives his life to save whom ever it is that is going to bring this chaos to order, thereby restoring his honor and completing his arc.

Kaylore
04-25-2014, 02:39 PM
Yeah it's possible Aerys is their dad.

According to the Ragnarok theory OD posted a ways back, Jaime is the PwwP.

Would be simply awesome.

I think Jaime and Cersei are Targs and Tyrion is a true Lannister. This explains the insanity and seems like something Martin would do. That or none of them are, as the ultimate "Aha! The Lannisters got boned after all!" move.

ShiftyEyedWaterboy
04-25-2014, 04:06 PM
So I'm a little late to the party but this series is AMAZING! Halfway through ACoK. Will watch season 2 once I've finished the book. I'm officially done reading series that aren't completed though. I'll have read the rest of the books in another week or two. Didn't GRRM's publisher say that TWoW "certainly won't be published before 2015"? Not sure I can handle that. And that means we're looking at waiting til '18/'19 for the series to be wrapped up. And I swear to ****ing God, if this guy croaks before he finishes it.......

I can only handle one Frank Herbert in my life. We should start an EKG fund or something. Maybe everyone pitch in for nutrisystem.

BroncsRule
04-25-2014, 04:33 PM
Or - AA and PwwP are, in the end - just ancient prophesies that will never be literally fulfilled.

Just old stories to frighten children, and warp the brains of fanboys with too much time on their hands.

GRRM is a huge history buff, after all. Virtually all historical prophesies are never fulfilled.

Old Dude
04-25-2014, 11:48 PM
What about Jamie? Isn't there some disconnect as to whether or not he and Cersei are acctually Tiwans children? I thought Kevan Lannister was alluding to that fact when he was talking to someone in ADWD.

I don't recall anything Kevan said about that, but Selmy, at one point, suggested that the Mad King was lusty for Tywin's bride/wife and that he exercised some sort of royal privilege that allowed him to bone her on Tywin's wedding night.

If so, then it's possible that the twins are really Targ offspring, which makes it really ironic that Tyrion would be Tywin's only biological heir.

Taco John
04-26-2014, 12:08 AM
Yeah it's possible Aerys is their dad.

According to the Ragnarok theory OD posted a ways back, Jaime is the PwwP.

Would be simply awesome.

I don't buy it. Why would Tywin be so attached to them if they were Aerys bastards?

Taco John
04-26-2014, 12:21 AM
I don't recall anything Kevan said about that, but Selmy, at one point, suggested that the Mad King was lusty for Tywin's bride/wife and that he exercised some sort of royal privilege that allowed him to bone her on Tywin's wedding night.

If so, then it's possible that the twins are really Targ offspring, which makes it really ironic that Tyrion would be Tywin's only biological heir.

The white knight chose his words with care. “Prince Aerys … as a youth, he was taken with a certain lady of Casterly Rock, a cousin of Tywin Lannister. When she and Tywin wed, your father drank too much wine at the wedding feast and was heard to say that it was a great pity that the lord’s right to the first night had been abolished. A drunken jape, no more, but Tywin Lannister was not a man to forget such words, or the … the liberties your father took during the bedding.” His face reddened. “I have said too much, Your Grace. I—”

myMind
04-26-2014, 12:32 AM
I think you missed something. The idea is that Azar Ahi is supposed to be a champion of Rhollar, and therefore a fire focused individual. So, Jon being ice and fire wouldn't be that person.

Or maybe just the same prophecy being interpreted from the point of view of two (or more) different "religious" beliefs. I honestly try to not delve too deep into fan fiction and speculation, as I've found future fictional reality always pales in comparison to the imagination of our current collective consciousness.

Wheel of Time is a good example. Dune as well, even though Herbert died fifteen years before I read his books, I felt like I was missing a hand after Chapterhouse.

Old Dude
04-26-2014, 09:04 AM
I think the reason Selmy suddenly gets closed-mouthed is more likely because he doesn't feel like telling Dany that her dad raped some woman on her wedding night.

As for Tywin's attitude, even if the rape occurred, he wouldn't necessarily know whether it resulted in pregnancy or not. It's not as if they had DNA tests. And, presumably, Tywin would be bopping his wife on a regular basis anyway, so, at least from his perspective, the odds would be highly in favor of the twins being his offspring.

What Tywin doesn't take into account is that he's a character in George Martin novel, which means that, when it comes to things like this, the most awful possibility is usually the most likely.

DivineLegion
04-26-2014, 09:14 AM
I don't recall anything Kevan said about that, but Selmy, at one point, suggested that the Mad King was lusty for Tywin's bride/wife and that he exercised some sort of royal privilege that allowed him to bone her on Tywin's wedding night.

If so, then it's possible that the twins are really Targ offspring, which makes it really ironic that Tyrion would be Tywin's only biological heir.

I remember the chapter I was thinking of now, and I acctually believe it was Kevans wife talking to Jamie before the seige of River run. I'm at work now, but I'll see if I can't find it later.

Old Dude
04-26-2014, 10:18 AM
BTW, on further consideration, I agree with Rev that the whole mission to Craster's Keep is probably the last nail in the coffin for a Coldhands appearance.

It also appears from next week's preview that this is all going to be resolved well before the battle on the wall.

Old Dude
04-26-2014, 10:28 AM
Would be borderline impossible to take Euron and Victarion out. I fully expect Dany to use Vic's fleet to land in Westeros and Euron clearly has huge significance moving forward.



I hope you're right about this. Again, I'm guessing that they'll want at least one, if not two, pretty solid actors to play these roles and it would be hard to commit those kinds of people to bit roles in Season 4.

Kaylore
04-27-2014, 04:20 PM
I don't buy it. Why would Tywin be so attached to them if they were Aerys bastards?

two reasons.

1. He honestly doesn't know.

2. They're born "Lannisters" and if his loyalty to the family name would stop him from throwing Tyrion into the ocean as a baby, he'd probably live with two twins.

DivineLegion
04-27-2014, 05:48 PM
two reasons.

1. He honestly doesn't know.

2. They're born "Lannisters" and if his loyalty to the family name would stop him from throwing Tyrion into the ocean as a baby, he'd probably live with two twins.

There is also a matter of pride. Two reasons, one he doesn't want to admit they are not his, and two, coupled with that, he's ashamed that the only offspring of his loins turned out to be a monster, so by claiming them he's saving face.

Baba Booey
04-27-2014, 06:59 PM
What the hell did I just watch

StugotsIII
04-27-2014, 07:04 PM
Jesus christ...

elsid13
04-27-2014, 07:16 PM
Well that was interesting.

Archer81
04-27-2014, 07:32 PM
Interesting. Very interesting.


:Broncos:

Boobs McGee
04-27-2014, 07:42 PM
I don't remember ANY of that from the books (in terms of the rangers/bran/walkers bit)...did I have a complete brain fart, or are there some pretty large liberties being taken??

Baba Booey
04-27-2014, 08:14 PM
Re: the Others/White Walkers/whatever the **** that was supposed to be at the end, I think we just saw the first bit of newer content that came from the show. That is, the show showed something before GRRM explained it in the books.

I'm honestly not sure how I feel about it.

And the whole Craster's/Bran **** is stupid, but Bran only has three chapters after ASOS. They need filler content or else the character risks falling by the wayside. Empty calories for book readers. I'm just pissed that they're probably going to cut out Coldhands though.

yerner
04-27-2014, 08:39 PM
i dunno, there are just too many story lines to make this a great television show, the pace is tedious since the first season. just lots of rape and torture scenes and long gazing looks at people riding away on horses. seriously, some of this has been going on since season two. get to it already.

Baba Booey
04-27-2014, 09:15 PM
Welp:

http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season-4/episode-4/home/34

http://i.imgur.com/G1pdcan.png

myMind
04-27-2014, 09:15 PM
This episode is a huuuge departure from the source material. Marg/Tommen, Bran somehow at crasters (da****)? Ghost captured? Seeing ANY backstory on the others.

Im not sure how to feel about this. I know they are just trying to flesh out the plot of the books, but damn. I mean, are Jon and Bran going to see each other?

Kaylore
04-27-2014, 10:30 PM
So this must be material that is/was going to be introduced or revealed in future books. It confirms the Night's King is still around and leading this gathering of his minions.

Brohemoth
04-28-2014, 03:29 AM
Well that's one way to get a baby to shut up.

Suddenly rooting for the white walkers.

JLesSPE
04-28-2014, 07:18 AM
I don't know how to feel about this. Part of me thinks it's cool to reward the people for watching the show with something new. I'm also pissed off that they're deviating from the books/showing things that haven't happened yet in the books.

Drunk Monkey
04-28-2014, 07:24 AM
I hope Martin saw this and pulled an all-nighter and knocked out 6 new chapters.

Old Dude
04-28-2014, 07:40 AM
I haven't watched it yet and probably shouldn't be reading the spoiler thread.

Assuming it suggests that Craster's boys are getting transformed into White Walkers (not just generic zombies), and not just eaten, that's entirely consistent with lots of previous speculation by book-readers. I wouldn't find that surprising at all.

The "Night's King" reference doesn't necessarily mean Coldhands. It's always been just one theory that Coldhands was the fellow referred to as the Night King. If anything, this would tend to undercut that theory.

Assuming also that we have a big chapter out of nowhere involving Bran's group, I think you guys hit it on the head that they're doing something to "fill" his journey north and make it more eventful - especially since they seem to have written out Coldhands. Trudging around in the snow and starving only gets you so many scenes.

spdirty
04-28-2014, 08:08 AM
I enjoyed it. Marg was so seductive in that scene. Tommen should have just taken her right there and then, and told mommy to **** off.

I'm glad I know what happens to the babies now.

Johnykbr
04-28-2014, 08:10 AM
Ugh, I think we're starting to see True Blood 2.0.

v2micca
04-28-2014, 08:13 AM
I will answer injustice with justice.


God, I know the writers didn't do Clarke any favors with that line, but her delivery of it was by far one of the low points of the season. Just a terribly written and acted moment.

Garcia Bronco
04-28-2014, 08:52 AM
I will answer injustice with justice.


God, I know the writers didn't do Clarke any favors with that line, but her delivery of it was by far one of the low points of the season. Just a terribly written and acted moment.

I disagree...I thought it was well delivered. **** those people

kappys
04-28-2014, 09:30 AM
I disagree...I thought it was well delivered. **** those people

It needed to be done - helps set the stage for the political trouble/intrigue when she tries to rule over Mereen

Kaylore
04-28-2014, 09:30 AM
I actually felt that line was bit on the stilted side. And the scene was kind of obvious and campy.

kappys
04-28-2014, 09:34 AM
I haven't watched it yet and probably shouldn't be reading the spoiler thread.

Assuming it suggests that Craster's boys are getting transformed into White Walkers (not just generic zombies), and not just eaten, that's entirely consistent with lots of previous speculation by book-readers. I wouldn't find that surprising at all.

The "Night's King" reference doesn't necessarily mean Coldhands. It's always been just one theory that Coldhands was the fellow referred to as the Night King. If anything, this would tend to undercut that theory.

Assuming also that we have a big chapter out of nowhere involving Bran's group, I think you guys hit it on the head that they're doing something to "fill" his journey north and make it more eventful - especially since they seem to have written out Coldhands. Trudging around in the snow and starving only gets you so many scenes.

Also possible that the Night's King is a title rather than the same person who took over the nightfort

24champ
04-28-2014, 12:19 PM
Re: the Others/White Walkers/whatever the **** that was supposed to be at the end, I think we just saw the first bit of newer content that came from the show. That is, the show showed something before GRRM explained it in the books.

I'm honestly not sure how I feel about it.

And the whole Craster's/Bran **** is stupid, but Bran only has three chapters after ASOS. They need filler content or else the character risks falling by the wayside. Empty calories for book readers. I'm just pissed that they're probably going to cut out Coldhands though.

Agree with the Bran/craster take.

Some if the scenes were campy but the ending with the white walkers makes you look forward to next week.

Taco John
04-28-2014, 01:28 PM
I will answer injustice with justice.


God, I know the writers didn't do Clarke any favors with that line, but her delivery of it was by far one of the low points of the season. Just a terribly written and acted moment.

Really? Huh. I watched it several times because I thought it was awesomely delivered... I felt the scorn for the idea of giving the masters mercy. I felt bad for Ser Barristan - he must have felt like a schmuck at that point.

Old Dude
04-28-2014, 01:42 PM
Also possible that the Night's King is a title rather than the same person who took over the nightfort

Yup. And apparently the description in the flyer was later changed to "white walker" - perhaps to avoid that very confusion.

Either way, it sounds like some parts of the show may be getting ahead of anything yet published in the books.

Of course, it will usually be impossible to determine what's a TV spoiler and what's just a variation.

v2micca
04-28-2014, 01:43 PM
Really? Huh. I watched it several times because I thought it was awesomely delivered... I felt the scorn for the idea of giving the masters mercy. I felt bad for Ser Barristan - he must have felt like a schmuck at that point.

Meh, to each their own. To me, it felt like a line that a cheesy action hero growls while walking away from an explosion in slow motion. I'll admit, it played better out of context in the season cutup trailer. Not so much in the actual episode.

Taco John
04-28-2014, 02:02 PM
I personally thought the episode was awesome. I just don't get the idea that the pace of this is tedious. To me, they've done a great job of balancing the story telling with the action, and more importantly, huge political reveals.

This episode was huge because both show watchers and book readers got a stunning reveal in the confirmation that the Night's King is still alive after 8,000 years. We got to see what happens to the Craster males - originally it was thought that they were just sacrificed, and it turns out they're immortalized instead.

On top of that, we're in brand new territory where book readers and show watchers are both in a blinding cloud not exactly sure how this current situation resolves itself. They're adding action that wasn't originally there, but that is very worthwhile - it makes sense.

I'm excited to see what happens next week.

Fedaykin
04-28-2014, 02:08 PM
I personally thought the episode was awesome. I just don't get the idea that the pace of this is tedious. To me, they've done a great job of balancing the story telling with the action, and more importantly, huge political reveals.

This episode was huge because both show watchers and book readers got a stunning reveal in the confirmation that the Night's King is still alive after 8,000 years. We got to see what happens to the Craster males - originally it was thought that they were just sacrificed, and it turns out they're immortalized instead.

On top of that, we're in brand new territory where book readers and show watchers are both in a blinding cloud not exactly sure how this current situation resolves itself. They're adding action that wasn't originally there, but that is very worthwhile - it makes sense.

I'm excited to see what happens next week.

Yep, while I love seeing certain events on the screen, it's also nice to get extras like the baby/ww sequence last night. Hopefully major plot additions like that are part of Martin's story, not just something they are wedging in to get more White Walker story than in the books.

Taco John
04-28-2014, 02:45 PM
Yep, while I love seeing certain events on the screen, it's also nice to get extras like the baby/ww sequence last night. Hopefully major plot additions like that are part of Martin's story, not just something they are wedging in to get more White Walker story than in the books.

I would be surprised if they are taking liberties outside of the overarching structure. I think the fans of the series will forgive reveals and plot changes like this that help liven up some of the more mundane parts of the story. What they won't forgive is wholesale changing of the story's infrastructure.

***major spoilers below intended for book readers only****


If I were to guess, this reveal is important because the viewers need to have some sort of context about what is going on with The Others as Bran continues on his quest to find the three eyed crow.

I am taking this character for the Night's King. And even if he's not THE Night's King, he's certainly the king of the white walkers imbued with powers to create new walkers from children (as well as raise wights).

So now the question that I have about this new character is this: what is the relationship between Blood Raven and the Night's King. Is Blood Raven in opposition to the Night's King? Or is the Night's King a servant of "the king on the Weirwood throne" (my own designation)?

This is where Coldhands comes in. We pretty well know that he's an Other - right? So in the books, we're thinking of this guy as a renegade Other, acting to help the humans against the Others. But now we have a situation where Bran is in danger and in need of rescue. Jon Snow is on the way - but seriously, are they going to let them have a reunion? How could Jon let Bran continue his journey? I just don't see it. I think we're about to see Coldhands intervene here - which, I suppose, he would be doing at the behest of the three-eyed crow. Which makes me believe that the Others are servants to The Three Eyed Crow. Cold hands saves Bran, he and his company escape, and Coldhands leads him to the 3EC. Jon shows up to a scene of slaughter, finds Ghost, scratches his head, and comes into some sharp disagreement with Locke on leadership through the event... And then heads home just in time to defend the wall from Mance's advance.

I'm also going to take a stab in the dark and guess that Locke is going to replace Bowen Marsh in the story.

ShiftyEyedWaterboy
04-28-2014, 06:48 PM
Sorry if this is a little off topic guys, but I'm thinking about what I should start reading after I'm caught up with ASOIAF. I'm thinking sci-fi. Already read (and loved) the Dune series.

I've been eyeing Asimov's Foundation series for awhile. Anyone here read it? How about "Old Man's War"?

Thanks in advance!

BroncoMan4ever
04-28-2014, 07:07 PM
I enjoyed it. Marg was so seductive in that scene. Tommen should have just taken her right there and then, and told mommy to **** off.

I'm glad I know what happens to the babies now.

Tommen that little wiener. I would have jumped her and said kneel before your king.

elsid13
04-28-2014, 07:10 PM
Sorry if this is a little off topic guys, but I'm thinking about what I should start reading after I'm caught up with ASOIAF. I'm thinking sci-fi. Already read (and loved) the Dune series.

I've been eyeing Asimov's Foundation series for awhile. Anyone here read it? How about "Old Man's War"?

Thanks in advance!

Asimov's Foundation is classic and if you haven't read it you should. But it was written in the 1950 so some of the writing is dated. If you are looking Sci-FI recommend Lost Fleet series for easy fun read also John Ringo's Troy Rising Series is another nice summer read.

BroncoMan4ever
04-28-2014, 07:12 PM
Is it just me or is Little Finger's accent more pronounced now? Or am I hearing things since it has been awhile since he was present?

ShiftyEyedWaterboy
04-28-2014, 07:18 PM
Asimov's Foundation is classic and if you haven't read it you should. But it was written in the 1950 so some of the writing is dated. If you are looking Sci-FI recommend Lost Fleet series for easy fun read also John Ringo's Troy Rising Series is another nice summer read.

LOVE the Lost Fleet series. I've heard of Ringo but never read any of his work. Will definitely check him out. thx

Old Dude
04-28-2014, 09:02 PM
So now the question that I have about this new character is this: what is the relationship between Blood Raven and the Night's King. Is Blood Raven in opposition to the Night's King? Or is the Night's King a servant of "the king on the Weirwood throne" (my own designation)?

This is where Coldhands comes in. We pretty well know that he's an Other - right? So in the books, we're thinking of this guy as a renegade Other, acting to help the humans against the Others. But now we have a situation where Bran is in danger and in need of rescue. Jon Snow is on the way - but seriously, are they going to let them have a reunion? How could Jon let Bran continue his journey? I just don't see it. I think we're about to see Coldhands intervene here - which, I suppose, he would be doing at the behest of the three-eyed crow. Which makes me believe that the Others are servants to The Three Eyed Crow. Cold hands saves Bran, he and his company escape, and Coldhands leads him to the 3EC. Jon shows up to a scene of slaughter, finds Ghost, scratches his head, and comes into some sharp disagreement with Locke on leadership through the event... And then heads home just in time to defend the wall from Mance's advance.



If Coldhands is a "renegade Other," and rescues Bran at the behest of 3EC, then why would that mean that "the Others" are all servants of the 3EC?

Isn't the whole concept of being a "renegade" that a "renegade" doesn't work with the rest of the group?

Also, I'm not so sure it's beyond dispute that Coldhands is an "Other." Why couldn't he be an animated corpse, possessed by 3EC, the same way that Bran can possess Hodor?

And if Coldhands is working for the Others, then why would the zombies attack him (and Bran) on the 3EC's doorstep? Couldn't he just snap his fingers and rebuke them?

One thing's for sure, which is that things are going to get violent at Craster's Keep in a hurry.

Maybe I should say "more violent."

Taco John
04-28-2014, 11:07 PM
If Coldhands is a "renegade Other," and rescues Bran at the behest of 3EC, then why would that mean that "the Others" are all servants of the 3EC?

That's not what I'm saying. In fact the opposite. I'm wondering if Coldhands is renegade at all. His motivations don't make much sense to me in the construct that has him as a renegade other. I suppose he *could* be a warged wight. Though, I'm not sure if the mechanics of warging allow for the possession of the dead...

I guess we'll see if he's even important at all. Though I don't see how he couldn't be. He's got to have *some* meaning.

Johnykbr
04-29-2014, 08:33 AM
Asimov's Foundation is classic and if you haven't read it you should. But it was written in the 1950 so some of the writing is dated. If you are looking Sci-FI recommend Lost Fleet series for easy fun read also John Ringo's Troy Rising Series is another nice summer read.

I'm certain I'm in the minority but I actually got a real kick out of Ringo's The Last Centurion.