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kappys
04-11-2013, 05:32 AM
Little Finger does what he does for one reason and one reason only: to acquire power.

He plays the game of thrones. I believe his ultimate desire is to place a puppet on the throne that he controls.

TheReverend
04-11-2013, 05:53 AM
It's all about being a joke when he was young. He lost his love in embarassing, ass-whoopin' style. People crapped on him because he was a nobody with nothing, and thus viewed him as somebody never to be worth a crap.

He's an angry and bitter man out to screw everyone and everything in his internalized rage.

I WOULD agree to this, but Lysa never crapped on him and well... look how that worked out.

Littlefingers ambitions and end game are still very murky water. Varys' not nearly as much, though there's still quite a bit that confuses me about his work: If Varys is trying to keep Westeros destabilized for Dany or Aegon--depending on whichever "dragon" you think he's backing--as evidenced by killing Kevan Lannister, why is one of his veryyyyyyy few genuine moments when he's trying to convince Ned to take the black and keep Westeros in tact? Only think that currently makes sense without accounting for inconsistency is that he just learned that from that moment and now is trying to place the RIGHT person on it

MagicHef
04-11-2013, 07:33 AM
I WOULD agree to this, but Lysa never crapped on him and well... look how that worked out.

Littlefingers ambitions and end game are still very murky water. Varys' not nearly as much, though there's still quite a bit that confuses me about his work: If Varys is trying to keep Westeros destabilized for Dany or Aegon--depending on whichever "dragon" you think he's backing--as evidenced by killing Kevan Lannister, why is one of his veryyyyyyy few genuine moments when he's trying to convince Ned to take the black and keep Westeros in tact? Only think that currently makes sense without accounting for inconsistency is that he just learned that from that moment and now is trying to place the RIGHT person on it

Didn't he suggest killing Ned? "If one hand can die, why not another" or something similar? I know that putting a dragon on the throne is what Varys says he wants, but I'm not convinced that's true.

As far as trying to save Ned, he may have genuinely liked him, and was trying to incite the rebellion without killing Ned. Telling him about keeping Westeros intact may have been his attempt to convince Ned to save himself, the only way to do that would be to give him a reason to believe that living was more honorable than dying.

Also, there's a completely bonkers theory regarding that exchange that also has to do with several characters noticing that Ned's bones don't seem to be the right size, and Sansa noting that the head on the spike didn't really look like her father.

I think we have a lot to learn about Varys still.

Kaylore
04-11-2013, 07:39 AM
On the spider I'm not sure he's pulling strings to back the dragon. He's largely been for every move that keeps the Realm stable (or at least as he believes at the time). He wasn't for Ned's death and was just as shocked as everyone when it happened - a critical blunder. He backed Joffrey for continuity and then backed Tyrion seeing him as a stabilizing force. He probably at least knew about Joff's death - if didn't do it himself, once it was clear he was basically another mad king. These and other moves are of someone who wants a stable Realm, not a divided one. My question is why? Why is he so married to the Realm? And I still don't get what Littlefinger's endgame is.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
04-11-2013, 07:44 AM
I WOULD agree to this, but Lysa never crapped on him and well... look how that worked out.


See, I would say Lysa crapped on him as well.

She didn't stand up to her father about marrying him, and she allowed them to abort his son. She could have eloped if Peter meant anything to her. I'm positive he hates her for her weakness as much as those that forced her to toe the family line.

As for Varys, I agree. It's hard for me to believe such a complex character would only want something as simple as a quality ruler on the throne. There must be more to it yet unrevealed.

TheReverend
04-11-2013, 08:47 AM
On the spider I'm not sure he's pulling strings to back the dragon. He's largely been for every move that keeps the Realm stable (or at least as he believes at the time). He wasn't for Ned's death and was just as shocked as everyone when it happened - a critical blunder. He backed Joffrey for continuity and then backed Tyrion seeing him as a stabilizing force. He probably at least knew about Joff's death - if didn't do it himself, once it was clear he was basically another mad king. These and other moves are of someone who wants a stable Realm, not a divided one. My question is why? Why is he so married to the Realm? And I still don't get what Littlefinger's endgame is.

I agree with what you said about him keeping the realm in tact, yet he just came back, killed Kevan Lannister because he [paraphrasing] "couldn't allow him to fix all the schisms Cersei's built into the realm". Completely undercuts the rest.

TheReverend
04-11-2013, 08:49 AM
See, I would say Lysa crapped on him as well.

She didn't stand up to her father about marrying him, and she allowed them to abort his son. She could have eloped if Peter meant anything to her. I'm positive he hates her for her weakness as much as those that forced her to toe the family line.

As for Varys, I agree. It's hard for me to believe such a complex character would only want something as simple as a quality ruler on the throne. There must be more to it yet unrevealed.


There's a pretty popular theory that Varys, himself, is a Targ and its one of the reasons he keeps his head shaved. And of course theres a great one about Tyrion being the result of the Mad King raping Tywin's wife.

Kaylore
04-11-2013, 09:22 AM
I agree with what you said about him keeping the realm in tact, yet he just came back, killed Kevan Lannister because he [paraphrasing] "couldn't allow him to fix all the schisms Cersei's built into the realm". Completely undercuts the rest.

Then why did he try to kill Denarys? Wasn't that his idea? There's nothing in the show or books to suggest he sabbotaged the attempt. I'm not sure he's even aware Ser Jorah was with her. Unless He doesn't support Targaryen's genericly but is in fact specifically supportive of Aegon only. Which would make Denarys a threat in some kind of measure.

Still, that raises even more questions about why he gives such a flying crap about it. That's a lot of trouble to go through - for what?

TheReverend
04-11-2013, 09:25 AM
Then why did he try to kill Denarys? Wasn't that his idea? There's nothing in the show or books to suggest he sabbotaged the attempt. I'm not sure he's even aware Ser Jorah was with her. Unless He doesn't support Targaryen's genericly but is in fact specifically supportive of Aegon only. Which would make Denarys a threat in some kind of measure.

Still, that raises even more questions about why he gives such a flying crap about it. That's a lot of trouble to go through - for what?

My main issue with the Aegon/Blackfyre and Illyrio and Varys supporting him is why would they give Dany the dragon eggs instead of him, then?

Kaylore
04-11-2013, 09:29 AM
My main issue with the Aegon/Blackfyre and Illyrio and Varys supporting him is why would they give Dany the dragon eggs instead of him, then?

Even when Varys is revealing his reasons to Kevan after shooting him, they seem to be largely practical - Aegon is more well rounded, has seen the low-life, been trained from birth, could be a warrior or scholar, etc. You could argue he really just honestly thinks he would be a good king and have a legitimate claim and therefore is "best for the Realm" which would be consistent with his other actions. He doesn't go into a tirade about revenge or loyalty.

MagicHef
04-11-2013, 09:40 AM
My main issue with the Aegon/Blackfyre and Illyrio and Varys supporting him is why would they give Dany the dragon eggs instead of him, then?

I forgot that Varys had a hand in giving her the eggs. Did he think they wouldn't hatch, maybe? He must be up to something else.

StugotsIII
04-11-2013, 09:46 AM
I WOULD agree to this, but Lysa never crapped on him and well... look how that worked out.

Littlefingers ambitions and end game are still very murky water. Varys' not nearly as much, though there's still quite a bit that confuses me about his work: If Varys is trying to keep Westeros destabilized for Dany or Aegon--depending on whichever "dragon" you think he's backing--as evidenced by killing Kevan Lannister, why is one of his veryyyyyyy few genuine moments when he's trying to convince Ned to take the black and keep Westeros in tact? Only think that currently makes sense without accounting for inconsistency is that he just learned that from that moment and now is trying to place the RIGHT person on it

Lysa's only crime was not being her sister...that and being cruel to her sisters daughter.

Still very much linked to Lady Stark.

Old Dude
04-11-2013, 11:32 AM
I WOULD agree to this, but Lysa never crapped on him and well... look how that worked out.

Littlefingers ambitions and end game are still very murky water. Varys' not nearly as much, though there's still quite a bit that confuses me about his work: If Varys is trying to keep Westeros destabilized for Dany or Aegon--depending on whichever "dragon" you think he's backing--as evidenced by killing Kevan Lannister, why is one of his veryyyyyyy few genuine moments when he's trying to convince Ned to take the black and keep Westeros in tact? Only think that currently makes sense without accounting for inconsistency is that he just learned that from that moment and now is trying to place the RIGHT person on it

Spoiler: (Most likely, the timing wasn't yet right for the destabilization. A few years later, that had all changed.)

Old Dude
04-11-2013, 11:40 AM
My main issue with the Aegon/Blackfyre and Illyrio and Varys supporting him is why would they give Dany the dragon eggs instead of him, then?

Spoiler: (Maybe he knew the dragons needed a "mother" to hatch them. Or that some horrible sacrifice would be required - and they want to keep Aegon innocent, or at least fertile. Or that they were worried that they couldn't hide dragons on Westereos.)

MagicHef
04-11-2013, 12:55 PM
Now that I think about it, weren't the eggs considered basically nothing more than pretty rocks? No one thought they could hatch, because magic had been disappearing from the world. In fact, Varys hates magic, so I don't think any part of his plan included depending on magic to give one of his pawns an absurd amount of power.

I'm guessing that giving Dany to Drogo was basically his way of getting rid of Dany and Viserys, making room for Aegon.

underrated29
04-11-2013, 01:50 PM
I dont think anyone had any clue what would happen with the eggs would happen that way. From the way I understood it, the dragon eggs were very rare, since it had been 1k years since a dragon was even seen. So these fossilzed eggs were something like a giant gold nugget. They were valuable because they were rare.

It was not until the witch doctor killed off drogo and the stallion that would mount the earth, and khaleesi not burning her hand that she kind of put two and two together, IMO. An completely unexpected turnabout.

Old Dude
04-11-2013, 01:51 PM
Now that I think about it, weren't the eggs considered basically nothing more than pretty rocks? No one thought they could hatch, because magic had been disappearing from the world. In fact, Varys hates magic, so I don't think any part of his plan included depending on magic to give one of his pawns an absurd amount of power.

I'm guessing that giving Dany to Drogo was basically his way of getting rid of Dany and Viserys, making room for Aegon.

The first part of that is certainly possible. Not so sure about the second. I'm sure some plans changed over the course of time since no one short of a diviner could really have dealt with all the variables.

SeedReaver
04-11-2013, 03:26 PM
What an intriguing thread. It turned from a discussion about fantasy series and the epicness of the TV series, but now I just see a bunch of "Spoiler" phrases, some parentheses, and a bunch of blank space; yet for some reason I yearn to keep clicking the thread to see who posted which blank spaces.

MagicHef
04-11-2013, 03:45 PM
The first part of that is certainly possible. Not so sure about the second. I'm sure some plans changed over the course of time since no one short of a diviner could really have dealt with all the variables.

He knew the entire time that Aegon was in hiding, being trained. It wouldn't be hard for him to see that other surviving Targaryens might be an impediment to Aegon gaining the throne. Also, assuming he had ever spent any time around Viserys, it would not be a stretch for him to assume that placing him with the Dothraki would lead to his death.

I'm not sure about it or anything, but it seems to make sense so far.

TheReverend
04-11-2013, 03:56 PM
He knew the entire time that Aegon was in hiding, being trained. It wouldn't be hard for him to see that other surviving Targaryens might be an impediment to Aegon gaining the throne. Also, assuming he had ever spent any time around Viserys, it would not be a stretch for him to assume that placing him with the Dothraki would lead to his death.

I'm not sure about it or anything, but it seems to make sense so far.

Again, why put invaluable artifacts in his rivals hands? Even if they had never hatched, theyre worth armies.

BroncoBeavis
04-11-2013, 04:24 PM
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Taco John
04-12-2013, 01:26 AM
If GRRm is smart (and he is) he won't answer all of these questions. He'll leave half of them open ended so that in 100 years when people are talking about this piece of literature, they'll have as much fun as we have now theorycrafting the plot lines and characters and their intentions.

kappys
04-12-2013, 02:59 AM
I think the hatching of the dragons rapidly changed everything making Dany a major power player. However even prior to that Varys had to know that Drogo was a potential threat to Westeros. To some degree Varys and Mopatis strike me as the sort of characters that like to keep their fingers in as many pies as possible so they are never at risk of falling out of power supporting Aerys, Dany, the ruling factions of Westeros, etc. It may be that Varys believes Ned Stark would be a valuable ally down the road against the Lannisters if he was spared and if the truly legitamate king (Aegon) returned.

MagicHef
04-12-2013, 11:00 AM
Again, why put invaluable artifacts in his rivals hands? Even if they had never hatched, theyre worth armies.

Hmm, quite true. I just have trouble with Varys believing that the best thing for the realm could have ever been any combination of Viserys and/or Dothraki.

I can see how he would be able to predict Viserys' demise by putting him with the Dothraki, but I don't think he could have predicted Drogo's demise or the eggs hatching, so I'm not sure what the motivation would be to give Dany the eggs.

Maybe it was just a throwaway, to convince Viserys/Dany that he and Illyrio were behind them. Maybe it was to make Viserys jealous of Dany, further ensuring his death. Maybe Illyrio did it without Varys' knowledge.

Johnykbr
04-12-2013, 11:10 AM
Hmm, quite true. I just have trouble with Varys believing that the best thing for the realm could have ever been any combination of Viserys and/or Dothraki.

I can see how he would be able to predict Viserys' demise by putting him with the Dothraki, but I don't think he could have predicted Drogo's demise or the eggs hatching, so I'm not sure what the motivation would be to give Dany the eggs.

Maybe it was just a throwaway, to convince Viserys/Dany that he and Illyrio were behind them. Maybe it was to make Viserys jealous of Dany, further ensuring his death. Maybe Illyrio did it without Varys' knowledge.

Drogo only seemed to play lip service to the notion of actually sailing over to Westeros until the assassination. Also, it seems like the Khal's come and go since they are always fighting each other. Of course the big hole in that is that Varys encouraged the assassination attempt, didn't he?

Kaylore
04-12-2013, 11:11 AM
If GRRm is smart (and he is) he won't answer all of these questions. He'll leave half of them open ended so that in 100 years when people are talking about this piece of literature, they'll have as much fun as we have now theorycrafting the plot lines and characters and their intentions.

I disagree. I want the series to end with Howard the Duck leading an army of Dark Overlords into the Realm.

StugotsIII
04-12-2013, 11:30 AM
What do you guys think Ghosts red eyes mean?

The other wolves have yellow eyes.

Kaylore
04-12-2013, 11:36 AM
What do you guys think Ghosts red eyes mean?

The other wolves have yellow eyes.

I think it means he's an albino. Albino's have red eyes.

underrated29
04-12-2013, 11:50 AM
Can anyone else confirm or deny that Spoiler ( sam gets skinny ) End spoiler

Old Dude
04-12-2013, 12:08 PM
Drogo only seemed to play lip service to the notion of actually sailing over to Westeros until the assassination. Also, it seems like the Khal's come and go since they are always fighting each other. Of course the big hole in that is that Varys encouraged the assassination attempt, didn't he?

But these things are not at all inconsistent. Spoiler: (Illyrio brokers a marriage between Dany and Drogo with the objective of gaining the Dothraki horde as allies for a subsequent invasion of Westeros. That’s certainly how the plan is sold to Dany’s brother, Viserys.

As you noted, the problem is that, after the marriage, Drogo is in no rush to cooperate. He has no particular stake in Westeros and he still has easy pickings all over Essos. When Viserys calls him on this, Viserys gets the Gatoraid treatment with molten gold.

So, something’s gotta be done to motivate Khal Drogo in the proper direction.

An assassination attempt, traceable directly to King Robert, would do the trick, provided that it fails. Varys is in a perfect position to pull this off. He encourages the attempt, which he directs (probably employing a second-rate poisoner to be his dupe.) At the same time, he warns his personal spy, Mormont, that’s it’s coming and when and how. Mormont steps in and saves Dany (and the unborn child) and, coincidentally, steps up a rung on the trust latter. It works exactly as planned. Drogo is infuriated by the attempt and assumes that Robert’s never going to stop, so he tells Dany that it’s now officially “on” with Westeros. Well, at least as soon as his son is born and they can gather up enough loot to get some boats.

And the whole maneuver would have worked if Drogo hadn’t been subsequently injured and then vegetated by the queen of medical malpractice.)

Kaylore
04-12-2013, 12:10 PM
lol at "queen of medical malpractice"

MagicHef
04-12-2013, 12:43 PM
But these things are not at all inconsistent. Spoiler: (Illyrio brokers a marriage between Dany and Drogo with the objective of gaining the Dothraki horde as allies for a subsequent invasion of Westeros. That’s certainly how the plan is sold to Dany’s brother, Viserys.

As you noted, the problem is that, after the marriage, Drogo is in no rush to cooperate. He has no particular stake in Westeros and he still has easy pickings all over Essos. When Viserys calls him on this, Viserys gets the Gatoraid treatment with molten gold.

So, something’s gotta be done to motivate Khal Drogo in the proper direction.

An assassination attempt, traceable directly to King Robert, would do the trick, provided that it fails. Varys is in a perfect position to pull this off. He encourages the attempt, which he directs (probably employing a second-rate poisoner to be his dupe.) At the same time, he warns his personal spy, Mormont, that’s it’s coming and when and how. Mormont steps in and saves Dany (and the unborn child) and, coincidentally, steps up a rung on the trust latter. It works exactly as planned. Drogo is infuriated by the attempt and assumes that Robert’s never going to stop, so he tells Dany that it’s now officially “on” with Westeros. Well, at least as soon as his son is born and they can gather up enough loot to get some boats.

And the whole maneuver would have worked if Drogo hadn’t been subsequently injured and then vegetated by the queen of medical malpractice.)

That makes sense. How do their plans with Aegon figure into Dany and the Dothraki attacking Westeros, though?

Taco John
04-12-2013, 12:56 PM
That makes sense. How do their plans with Aegon figure into Dany and the Dothraki attacking Westeros, though?

This is still the million dollar question in my mind. Not to mention who the hell the kid actually is.

If he's actually a Targ (which I don't personally believe he is), then Varys has been involved in some evil, evil plots, and somehow had an imposter kid placed directly in Gregor Clegane's murderous path.

Old Dude
04-12-2013, 01:41 PM
That makes sense. How do their plans with Aegon figure into Dany and the Dothraki attacking Westeros, though?

Speculation Spoiler: (I think the primary plan, early on, is to put Aegon on the throne. Assuming that Aegon is Rhaegar’s kid, he’s technically the rightful heir and has a better claim than either Viseys or Dany, who are basically his aunt and uncle. Via Connington, Varys has had de facto custody of the kid for many years and a lot of effort has been spent to shape the kid’s character and education.

Viserys, on the other hand, was already 7 years old when his brother, Rhaegar, was killed, so a lot of his personality was already formed. In addition, Viserys and Dany were originally taken to safety by Willem Darry (to Braavos). King Robert didn’t want to mess with Braavos, so he initially left them alone. Subsequently, Derry died from an illness and the Targs were left nearly destitute when their own servants robbed them. They lost their house and had to hit the road, bouncing for a few years from one potential benefactor to another. So, unlike the situation with Aegon, it’s hardly a controlled environment and it’s pretty well established that by the time we meet Viserys, he’s already damaged goods in the morality and common sense departments. Dany, who is several years younger, isn’t quite as messed up.

It’s only after all of this that Illyrio gets his hands on them and takes them in. Viserys has some value as a backup plan in case something befalls Aegon, but he’s not the projected starter. The opportunity arises to broker a marriage between Aunt Dany and Drogo, in the hopes of recruiting the Dothraki biker-gang.

The final thing that we need to remember is that Illyrio and Varys are both filthy, stinking, rich.

So let’s assume they need to come up with some sort of dowry to seal the marriage deal. They could supply Drogo with gold, and lots of it, but Dothraki may not be the best financial managers. The Dragon Eggs are pretty valuable and probably more easily portable than gold and treasury bonds. (And this is assuming that Illyrio and Varys think they are nothing more than inert historical artifacts.) So maybe the eggs are just a dowry, mostly symbolic, and nothing more.

Until of course, the dragons hatch, at which time, Dany becomes a much bigger pawn. But it takes Illyrio awhile to learn of this and guide ships and protective agents toward her. Unfortunately, she gets distracted with affairs on the continent, so they decide to start the attacks with Aegon while all the other chaos in Westeros is in full swing, hoping, apparently, that she’ll come running once she finds out her nephew(and the rightful heir) is in need.)

BroncoBeavis
04-12-2013, 01:46 PM
What this thread really needs is some advice on how to get a man's wife past the TnA enough to get her to watch it.

TheReverend
04-12-2013, 02:08 PM
What this thread really needs is some advice on how to get a man's wife past the TnA enough to get her to watch it.

Get her to read the books so she gets into the brilliance of the story.

Johnykbr
04-12-2013, 02:11 PM
Get her to read the books so she gets into the brilliance of the story.

That's how I did. That and she's a fan Jorah. :~ohyah!:

BroncoBeavis
04-12-2013, 02:24 PM
Get her to read the books so she gets into the brilliance of the story.

Guessing I'll have to start reading them first.

First I have to read LoTR again though.

Lestat
04-12-2013, 03:18 PM
Cast pictures

http://imgur.com/a/uXPYY

i would so get slapped in this scenario. cause as soon as the camera was gone, i'm grabbing something other than their waist :rofl:

http://i.imgur.com/wFijyf4.jpg

Taco John
04-12-2013, 04:02 PM
Sam Tarley doesn't look so craven in that photo.

Taco John
04-12-2013, 04:11 PM
Guessing I'll have to start reading them first.

First I have to read LoTR again though.

Honestly, I think you'll have more fun going in the other direction. I read ASOFAI and am currently in the middle of LOTR with my son. There are some theories out there that ASOFAI is basically middle earth after X amount of years. Westeros and Essos were once part of the same continent.

Here it is:
ASOIAF takes place thousands of years after LOTR, after the elves have left. The dwarves, orcs, and other races left over the millennia as the Age of Man took over, taking their magic with them. The last race to leave was the hobbits, also known as Children of the Forest. Enough time has passed over the years that the ocean slowly crept where there once was land. Valyria, located in the land that was once known as Mordor, was destroyed when Mt. Doom erupted one final time.

http://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/17btce/just_a_thought/c846lfu

I don't personally believe this theory, but I've had fun trying to find clues to the truth of this as I read through the LOTR.

StugotsIII
04-12-2013, 07:13 PM
I think it means he's an albino. Albino's have red eyes.

Damn…you are probably right.

I was hoping for a deeper meaning.

broncolife
04-12-2013, 07:25 PM
Just downloaded the 2nd episode, will finally get to watch it tonight.

myMind
04-12-2013, 08:44 PM
Damn…you are probably right.

I was hoping for a deeper meaning.

There is deeper meaning. Ghost is white with red eyes, like the weirwood trees that serve as the eyes of the green men, or any warg with the ability to do so. I think its significant to Jon's storyline.

BroncoBeavis
04-12-2013, 09:53 PM
Honestly, I think you'll have more fun going in the other direction. I read ASOFAI and am currently in the middle of LOTR with my son. There are some theories out there that ASOFAI is basically middle earth after X amount of years. Westeros and Essos were once part of the same continent.

Here it is:
ASOIAF takes place thousands of years after LOTR, after the elves have left. The dwarves, orcs, and other races left over the millennia as the Age of Man took over, taking their magic with them. The last race to leave was the hobbits, also known as Children of the Forest. Enough time has passed over the years that the ocean slowly crept where there once was land. Valyria, located in the land that was once known as Mordor, was destroyed when Mt. Doom erupted one final time.

http://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/17btce/just_a_thought/c846lfu

I don't personally believe this theory, but I've had fun trying to find clues to the truth of this as I read through the LOTR.

Haha. Its nothing as conscious as all that. Kinda like you I promised my boy I'd read through LOTR again when he wanted to go through it. He just finished the Hobbit a month ago or so and is finally excited about it, so I'm locked in.

Taco John
04-13-2013, 12:46 AM
Haha. Its nothing as conscious as all that. Kinda like you I promised my boy I'd read through LOTR again when he wanted to go through it. He just finished the Hobbit a month ago or so and is finally excited about it, so I'm locked in.

Oh, I totally know how that goes. We read through the Hobbit last fall, and started LOTR in December. We're just about done with the two towers.

StugotsIII
04-13-2013, 07:55 AM
There is deeper meaning. Ghost is white with red eyes, like the weirwood trees that serve as the eyes of the green men, or any warg with the ability to do so. I think its significant to Jon's storyline.

I agree…but Bran's wolf doesn't have that and Bran is a powerful dude...

TheReverend
04-13-2013, 08:48 AM
I agree…but Bran's wolf doesn't have that and Bran is a powerful dude...

You're completely right. Supporting evidence that something big is still to come with Ghost (or maybe just came at the end of Dance):

Ghost grew faster than his siblings

Bran gets told those chosen by the gods to receive different eye, hair, etc color

Weirdwoods were already mentioned... dont they represent the old gods? Ghost resembling the old gods could be extremely substantial. Or, since we're already taking crazy-out-their theories, maybe his red eyes signify that Ghost is Rhllor reborn.

underrated29
04-13-2013, 09:30 AM
I'm not a writer or avid book reader, I did read all of the GOT books though. Anyway, going over all these theories about R+L = J, or ghost having red eyes because of something special- or whatever. My hat is off to grrm and all you writers out there. All of these little sub plots, and miniature details that have to be put in place from the beginning but become after thoughts until the end etc. all of this thought out before hand is impressive. My hat is off to all ya.

Fedaykin
04-14-2013, 11:37 PM
Love the twist that Ramsay is screwing with Theon's head by pretending to be his savior. Fits very nicely into Theon's storyline -- filling in the the "off page" bits.

cutthemdown
04-15-2013, 01:30 AM
Best ending of an episode since Ned Stark lost his head.

Boobs McGee
04-15-2013, 09:25 AM
Best ending of an episode since Ned Stark lost his head.

Agreed...I was sittin there thinkin to myself "self, I know he lost it right around this point in the book, I wonder when they're going to- OOOOOOOOOOOH ****!!!!"


Such a great episode! That whole Podrick scene at the whorehouse was pretty hilarious, as was the scene with the Hand meeting (moving chairs around). Sending Kat's father off in the canoe was also pretty humorous as well...LOTS of subtle comedy in this one!


Question...can someone fill me in on what the hell is going on with Theon I don't recall ANY of this from the books...I just remember him coming back as Reek later on in the fifth one (i think). Who was the kid that saved him in last night's episode??

BoulderBum
04-15-2013, 10:41 AM
Question...can someone fill me in on what the hell is going on with Theon I don't recall ANY of this from the books...I just remember him coming back as Reek later on in the fifth one (i think). Who was the kid that saved him in last night's episode??

My guesses on Theon The kid is actually Ramsay Snow (Bastard of Bolton) and we are seeing the transformation from Theon to Reek. Ramsay saved Theon, which should help mold Theon into his plaything.

As for Jon being sent to climb the wall with Tormond: Interesting that Tormond is climbing the wall. How do you think that will effect Jon's escape from the Wildlings, Bran's involvement, the attack of Castle black from the south, etc..?

TheReverend
04-15-2013, 03:02 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1CLCOvZOh1o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

bronco militia
04-15-2013, 03:17 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1CLCOvZOh1o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious!

:militia::militia::militia:

awesome

kent156
04-15-2013, 03:47 PM
so this is like a soap opera for guys basically

underrated29
04-15-2013, 05:02 PM
so this is like a soap opera for guys basically



If soap operas have tons of tits and ass, and vajayjays, blood, killing, swords, dragons, and hilarious and cunning commentary. Along with many attractive female characters and good acting (didnt someone win an award)plus magic and zombies- then by all means it is a soap for guys!

kent156
04-15-2013, 05:20 PM
pretty much if this was on nbc, abc or cbs it would just be another lame show like when showtime tried to put dexter on cbs it was lame

underrated29
04-15-2013, 07:19 PM
pretty much if this was on nbc, abc or cbs it would just be another lame show like when showtime tried to put dexter on cbs it was lame




And pretty much if my mom had a dick she'd be my father. But she does not and GOT isn't some puss show on CBS and NBC.




Serious question- do you think if it was not for trindon in the game against Balt we would have been blown out?

Lestat
04-15-2013, 07:22 PM
pretty much if this was on nbc, abc or cbs it would just be another lame show like when showtime tried to put dexter on cbs it was lame

eh, most of the better shows nowadays are on cable because you can get away with more adult content and nature.
the world is so PC now that if it doesn't fit with family values and become something the entire family can watch(or at least most of it) then it tends to slip and fade away.

you have some darker shows that remain on network tv and some raunchy comedies but you don't see Mad Men, Burn Notice, Son of Anarchy, Walking Dead, White Collar or GOT on network tv.

Bigdawg26
04-15-2013, 07:25 PM
Hey I just started watching it this season. Didn't realize how awesome it was until my finance finally made me watch it. Anyways, that black chick the dragon princess picked up from that douche guy who had the soilders for sale is really hot!

underrated29
04-15-2013, 08:35 PM
Hey I just started watching it this season. Didn't realize how awesome it was until my finance finally made me watch it. Anyways, that black chick the dragon princess picked up from that douche guy who had the soilders for sale is really hot!



Messandi and she is very hot and if things stay status quo then we will be able to enjoy her goods.

Bigdawg26
04-15-2013, 08:41 PM
Messandi and she is very hot and if things stay status quo then we will be able to enjoy her goods.

SWEET! One of the best things about this series is like it has action and hot women. Kinda like Californication but with an actual plot!

Taco John
04-15-2013, 09:59 PM
pretty much if this was on nbc, abc or cbs it would just be another lame show like when showtime tried to put dexter on cbs it was lame

I think you're way off base. This is probably the most ambitious show ever produced for television.

ol#7
04-21-2013, 02:59 PM
Missed episode 3 and AFN isn't doing a re-play over here. Does anyone know a site that I can stream it or download? If so please PM me.

StugotsIII
04-21-2013, 08:11 PM
Great episode!!!

TheReverend
04-21-2013, 08:22 PM
Yeah they definitely crushed this one

ScottXray
04-21-2013, 08:38 PM
Yeah they definitely crushed this one

Loved the ending on this one... you just knew that the bad mouthing the guy had constantly run would end up biting him in the butt.....

underrated29
04-21-2013, 09:47 PM
Sam roost I made at another place.

Khaleesi is so fugging Hawt!

Drunk Monkey
04-21-2013, 09:47 PM
Unleash the Stormborn!!!

spdirty
04-21-2013, 09:53 PM
Dany is so damn hot. Another awesome episode. I really hope Tywin puts Joffrey in his place soon.

Archer81
04-21-2013, 10:04 PM
Last episode was pretty awesome. Stormborn for president.


:Broncos:

SonOfLe-loLang
04-21-2013, 10:58 PM
I want to cut off my nipples and support the cause. What a great ep

myMind
04-21-2013, 11:58 PM
Her enunciation of Valyrian was kinda frightening in how close it came to my imagination while reading the books. Hot. Her storyline is by far the most faithful. Jaime and Theon are being served well, if not up to expectation. Though Jaime is close. The Kingslanding saga still has hope. Sadly my favorite plots from the books happen north of the wall and I am bored to death and dissapointed with the recreation so far this season. Ghost is somehow not with Jon? Gianstbane isnt jovial, and for some reason leading Jon over the wall instead of the earless king. Sam hasnt earned his nickname?(though that could still happen). Heres hoping that the action north of the wall improves tenfold, Im honestly not to sold on the KBtW.

Kaylore
04-21-2013, 11:59 PM
They do a good job of really getting you behind the Dragon. HBO has always done a great job casting. Diana Rigg's Olena Tyrell is fantastic.

I remember when Tom Sangster was Liam Neeson's kid in Love Actually.

Is that it for Jamie's wound? Just a pep talk from Brienne and some bread?

Aftermath
04-22-2013, 12:33 AM
Best episode yet...I've been waiting for Dany to do that.

McDman
04-22-2013, 06:00 AM
They do a good job of really getting you behind the Dragon. HBO has always done a great job casting. Diana Rigg's Olena Tyrell is fantastic.

I remember when Tom Sangster was Liam Neeson's kid in Love Actually.

Is that it for Jamie's wound? Just a pep talk from Brienne and some bread?

The casting for this show is damn near perfect. I can't really think of many that have been miscasted. Maybe Dondarrion?

TheReverend
04-22-2013, 06:37 AM
Her enunciation of Valyrian was kinda frightening in how close it came to my imagination while reading the books. Hot. Her storyline is by far the most faithful. Jaime and Theon are being served well, if not up to expectation. Though Jaime is close. The Kingslanding saga still has hope. Sadly my favorite plots from the books happen north of the wall and I am bored to death and dissapointed with the recreation so far this season. Ghost is somehow not with Jon? Gianstbane isnt jovial, and for some reason leading Jon over the wall instead of the earless king. Sam hasnt earned his nickname?(though that could still happen). Heres hoping that the action north of the wall improves tenfold, Im honestly not to sold on the KBtW.

Sam's nickname is coming.

The fight at the wall is coming.

Sex with Ygritte is coming.

Relax man :)

They do a good job of really getting you behind the Dragon. HBO has always done a great job casting. Diana Rigg's Olena Tyrell is fantastic.

I remember when Tom Sangster was Liam Neeson's kid in Love Actually.

Is that it for Jamie's wound? Just a pep talk from Brienne and some bread?

No, they're on their way to Qyburn at Harrenhal.

v2micca
04-22-2013, 07:32 AM
Sam's nickname is coming.

The fight at the wall is coming.

Sex with Ygritte is coming.

Relax man :)



No, they're on their way to Qyburn at Harrenhal.


I remember being a little geeked out when they introduced Qyburn a couple of episodes back. I had to explain to my brother why he would be important soon.

Also, can anyone who has read the books more recently than I clarify this point, the entire Theon escape fake-out subplot that ran through the first 4 episodes, was that completely created from scratch, or was there some background mention of it in the third book? I just remember Robb receiving vague promises that Theon was being painfully flayed alive by Ramsay Bolton and that was it.

TheReverend
04-22-2013, 08:05 AM
I remember being a little geeked out when they introduced Qyburn a couple of episodes back. I had to explain to my brother why he would be important soon.

Also, can anyone who has read the books more recently than I clarify this point, the entire Theon escape fake-out subplot that ran through the first 4 episodes, was that completely created from scratch, or was there some background mention of it in the third book? I just remember Robb receiving vague promises that Theon was being painfully flayed alive by Ramsay Bolton and that was it.

'Reek' remembers it when he comes back into the story. All they did here was show it instead of mention it later.

Kaylore
04-22-2013, 08:46 AM
The casting for this show is damn near perfect. I can't really think of many that have been miscasted. Maybe Dondarrion?

I've mentioned it before, but I am not really in love with Lena Headey's Cersei. I think she plays her too quiet, hunched over and reserved. I don't read her that way and don't see her that way. This is someone who is desperate for attention and affection. I see her stronger vocally and physically - not actually larger, but stronger body language. I also don't see why they couldn't find a real blonde. Headey is ok, but her performances aren't very powerful. The closest I've liked is when she threatens Littlefinger and when she's speaking to Sansa during the siege of King's Landing. I wish she was like that all the time.

TheReverend
04-22-2013, 09:13 AM
I've mentioned it before, but I am not really in love with Lena Headey's Cersei. I think she plays her too quiet, hunched over and reserved. I don't read her that way and don't see her that way. This is someone who is desperate for attention and affection. I see her stronger vocally and physically - not actually larger, but stronger body language. I also don't see why they couldn't find a real blonde. Headey is ok, but her performances aren't very powerful. The closest I've liked is when she threatens Littlefinger and when she's speaking to Sansa during the siege of King's Landing. I wish she was like that all the time.

To each their own. I think she's a great fit and amazing at it.

DivineLegion
04-22-2013, 09:26 AM
They do a good job of really getting you behind the Dragon. HBO has always done a great job casting. Diana Rigg's Olena Tyrell is fantastic.

I remember when Tom Sangster was Liam Neeson's kid in Love Actually.

Is that it for Jamie's wound? Just a pep talk from Brienne and some bread?

Of corse not, did you see him grasp aimlessly with his stump for his sword when he was kicked down. Jamie's journey will be tough, because so much of his evolution is internal dialogue.


In terms of Danny's rise, awesome!

I can't wait for the Red Viper.

v2micca
04-22-2013, 09:59 AM
The only casting that I have disliked so far has been Mance Raydor. The books really set him up as this character with a lot of roguish charm and flair. Ciaran Hinds plays him as just another grumpy old man beyond the wall.

DenverBroncosJM
04-22-2013, 10:05 AM
The casting for this show is damn near perfect. I can't really think of many that have been miscasted. Maybe Dondarrion?

Sansa..can't stand her

scorpio
04-22-2013, 10:10 AM
http://i.imgur.com/OIiLlex.gif

SonOfLe-loLang
04-22-2013, 10:22 AM
Sansa..can't stand her

I think Sansa is annoying, but her character is annoying, not the casting. I have to agree that Lena Headey's Cersei is pretty awesome. I haven't read the books, but I don't trust her one bit, which I think is the point.

The greatest tragedy in the show is I think we'll never see the Khaleesi's tits again. We may see Emilia Clarke's at some point in her career, but never the Khaleesi's. Let's mourn that.

ChampJesusBailey
04-22-2013, 10:23 AM
Cersei seems hotter in recent episodes.

Kaylore
04-22-2013, 10:39 AM
Of corse not, did you see him grasp aimlessly with his stump for his sword when he was kicked down. Jamie's journey will be tough, because so much of his evolution is internal dialogue.
Alas, this is why people should read the books. My favorite characters are even more awesome when you see their thoughts.



I can't wait for the Red Viper.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/yes/yesjacknicholson.gif

Boobs McGee
04-22-2013, 10:40 AM
The only casting that I have disliked so far has been Mance Raydor. The books really set him up as this character with a lot of roguish charm and flair. Ciaran Hinds plays him as just another grumpy old man beyond the wall.

I feel the same way

Taco John
04-22-2013, 03:31 PM
I've mentioned it before, but I am not really in love with Lena Headey's Cersei. I think she plays her too quiet, hunched over and reserved. I don't read her that way and don't see her that way. This is someone who is desperate for attention and affection. I see her stronger vocally and physically - not actually larger, but stronger body language. I also don't see why they couldn't find a real blonde. Headey is ok, but her performances aren't very powerful. The closest I've liked is when she threatens Littlefinger and when she's speaking to Sansa during the siege of King's Landing. I wish she was like that all the time.

I definitely disagree with this and think that the natural progression will prove you wrong. Cersei wasn't as strong a character in the early going as she was after gaining more confidence later on - except in the instances you mention, when she was drunk during the siege. It really wasn't until she felt threatened by Margaery and the Tyrell family that she started to really spread her wings and flex her power openly.

With this last episode, we start to see the seed of her thoughts about her place in her family, and I think with each episode, we'll see that seed grow and get stronger, and she'll become a very powerful presence in the show.

El Guapo
04-22-2013, 04:03 PM
Finally some action here in season 3. After finishing the book last year I've been very impatient for this season... I read the "info" for next weeks episode and I am excited. I shouldn't of done that. haha

I replayed the last 10 minutes of this past episode about 10 times. It was bad arse. Dracarys! :militia:

Kaylore
04-22-2013, 04:25 PM
I definitely disagree with this and think that the natural progression will prove you wrong. Cersei wasn't as strong a character in the early going as she was after gaining more confidence later on - except in the instances you mention, when she was drunk during the siege. It really wasn't until she felt threatened by Margaery and the Tyrell family that she started to really spread her wings and flex her power openly.

With this last episode, we start to see the seed of her thoughts about her place in her family, and I think with each episode, we'll see that seed grow and get stronger, and she'll become a very powerful presence in the show.

Martin doesn't say she's hunched over all the time like an old crone barely whispering her words. If anything that makes more sense later when she puts on weight because she's become a drunk.

MagicHef
04-22-2013, 06:36 PM
Headey's Cercei is basically exactly how I imagined her while reading. I've loved the casting so far, but do agree that Mance is a bit stuffy. Maybe we'll get to see another side of him when he's not leading thousands upon thousands of people away from one certain death towards another.

On a different note, what is going on with Roz/Varys/Olenna discovering Littlefinger's plans for Sansa? Change in plot coming?

lolcopter
04-22-2013, 07:01 PM
this show is insanely good

i still need to rewatch yesterday's episode



theon's story has me completed lost

MagicHef
04-22-2013, 07:29 PM
Martin doesn't say she's hunched over all the time like an old crone barely whispering her words. If anything that makes more sense later when she puts on weight because she's become a drunk.

I took it more as she is trying to quietly contain her rage at the incompetence around her.

Lestat
04-22-2013, 08:25 PM
Headey's Cersei is spot on. she's a quiet dose of lethal poison.
it takes almost everything you have no to want to see her meet her end. at the same time she's so evil it's kinda hot.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
04-29-2013, 02:11 PM
Missed this week's episode. How was it?

TheReverend
04-29-2013, 02:24 PM
Missed this week's episode. How was it?

Not as good as the previous week's but way up there.

PS. Ygritte has some rockin abs.

And tits.

Ratboy
04-29-2013, 03:25 PM
Not as good as the previous week's but way up there.

PS. Ygritte has some rockin abs.

And boobies.

The fight between Hound and Beric Dondarrion was awesome.

TheReverend
04-29-2013, 03:41 PM
The fight between Hound and Beric Dondarrion was awesome.

The Jaime/Brienne scene was even better

El Guapo
04-29-2013, 03:48 PM
That fight scene was good, but overall more non-action. Looks like they're saving everything for the end of the season. weak.

Ratboy
04-29-2013, 03:52 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but this season is supposed to split the third book into 2?

Lestat
04-29-2013, 04:30 PM
Not as good as the previous week's but way up there.

PS. Ygritte has some rockin abs.

And boobies.

i must say, that windlings gear doesn't do her body justice.

kent156
04-29-2013, 04:42 PM
Not as good as the previous week's but way up there.

PS. Ygritte has some rockin abs.

And boobies.


did we see the same chick I saw a anorexic girl who suppose to be a warrior and what's with the gay scene good thing the last scene was with lena headley

Archer81
04-29-2013, 05:11 PM
did we see the same chick I saw a anorexic girl who suppose to be a warrior and what's with the gay scene good thing the last scene was with lena headley


Gays exist in literature? OMG NOWAI.

Loras is a moron. Obvious what that dude was there for. Hey, I'm in the capital, crazy **** is going on...I'm gonna bone this random dude because he looked at me twice. Stupid. Stupid stupid stupid.

:Broncos:

SonOfLe-loLang
04-29-2013, 05:23 PM
There should be a micro-series where its just Tywin, Tyrion, and Cersei at the table.

Taco John
04-29-2013, 06:01 PM
Gays exist in literature? OMG NOWAI.

Loras is a moron. Obvious what that dude was there for. Hey, I'm in the capital, crazy **** is going on...I'm gonna bone this random dude because he looked at me twice. Stupid. Stupid stupid stupid.

:Broncos:

Loras is like 16.

Lestat
04-29-2013, 06:06 PM
Loras is like 16.

everyone in the damn novel is young as hell.

Archer81
04-29-2013, 06:18 PM
Loras is like 16.


He could be 56 and it would still be stupid.


:Broncos:

Taco John
04-29-2013, 06:36 PM
That fight scene was good, but overall more non-action. Looks like they're saving everything for the end of the season. weak.

I don't understand this criticism at all. You want them to pack everything into one episode or something? They've got a lot of ground and character development to cover, and they're doing a fine job of it. I'm not finding "action" to be something in short supply.

DivineLegion
04-29-2013, 06:40 PM
The first half of book two is setting up the climactic roller coaster, I guess you have to understand literature to get the point. From this point forward the story will get pretty crazy, but this season is all about set up.

El Guapo
04-29-2013, 08:53 PM
Totally agree, don't get me wrong as I've read all of the books. I'm more concerned with those who have not read the books who become disinterested and thus cause the show to be cancelled.

Lestat
04-29-2013, 08:55 PM
Totally agree, don't get me wrong as I've read all of the books. I'm more concerned with those who have not read the books who become disinterested and thus cause the show to be cancelled.

i doubt that would happen, GOT has a cult following and if nothing else, the naked chicks will save it

Baba Booey
04-30-2013, 07:50 AM
My favorite storyline in the books is north of the Wall as well.

I think they'll fit Sam's encounter with the Other in this season, but Stannis coming will be left for next year. Or, the huge cliffhanger ending a la Fist of the First Men last season could be Stannis riding in as episode ten closes.

All in all I think the Red Wedding will be episode nine. Next season's big happenings will be the royal wedding and they'll probably end it with Tyrion killing Tywin.

TheReverend
04-30-2013, 07:54 AM
My favorite storyline in the books is north of the Wall as well.

I think they'll fit Sam's encounter with the Other in this season, but Stannis coming will be left for next year. Or, the huge cliffhanger ending a la Fist of the First Men last season could be Stannis riding in as episode ten closes.

All in all I think the Red Wedding will be episode nine. Next season's big happenings will be the royal wedding and they'll probably end it with Tyrion killing Tywin.

I think they'll get to the Royal Wedding long before Stannis arrives at the wall.

...but before that we need to get introduced to Oberyn who still hasn't arrived :/

Baba Booey
04-30-2013, 08:01 AM
I think they'll get to the Royal Wedding long before Stannis arrives at the wall.

...but before that we need to get introduced to Oberyn who still hasn't arrived :/

True.

I'm guessing the Red Viper, Stannis, the Royal Wedding and Tyrion/Tywin will be left for next season. Should make for a great one.

This season seems to be focusing almost entirely on the Red Wedding. I don't see anything else crazy happening except Sam/Slayer and the attack on Castle Black/Ygritte's death.

I'm also very interested to see how they do Lady Stoneheart

SonOfLe-loLang
04-30-2013, 09:49 AM
Totally agree, don't get me wrong as I've read all of the books. I'm more concerned with those who have not read the books who become disinterested and thus cause the show to be cancelled.

The show is becoming one of the most popular on TV, has a rabid audience, and whether HBO intended it or not, is becoming the face of the channel.

Its not going away. People aren't watching it for the violence and action. If you want senseless violent bs, watch the walking dead.

bendog
04-30-2013, 10:37 AM
I want to see Jon Snowe's red headed captive/captor naked.

Johnykbr
04-30-2013, 10:47 AM
I want to see Jon Snowe's red headed captive/captor naked.

Not sure if serious?

Johnykbr
04-30-2013, 10:49 AM
The audiobook pronounced Ygritte's name as "ya-greet"...the show pronounced her name like the friggin bird (e-grit). That annoyed the hell out of me.

bendog
04-30-2013, 11:38 AM
Not sure if serious?

seldom, but I tivoed last weekend's episode. I'm not sure why my daugter hasn't qued it up yet. I understand she may be studying for her finals.

TheReverend
04-30-2013, 11:41 AM
seldom, but I tivoed last weekend's episode. I'm not sure why my daugter hasn't qued it up yet. I understand she may be studying for her finals.

...So, to summarize, you want to see Ygritte nude while you watch it with your daughter?

****ing Christ...

bendog
04-30-2013, 11:46 AM
you went there, arsehole

TheReverend
04-30-2013, 11:47 AM
you went there, arsehole

Uh, no. You literally just said it. It's quoted.

bendog
04-30-2013, 11:48 AM
your arsehole factor cannot be overstated. and that is my only truly serious, nonsarcastic post today.

Boobs McGee
04-30-2013, 11:48 AM
I want to see Jon Snowe's red headed captive/captor naked.

NSFW / NSFKIDS LINK

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/4909081/game-of-thrones-ygritte-seduces-jon-snow-in-a-cave.html

Figure I'd save you the weirdness of watching nakedness with your children.

TheReverend
04-30-2013, 11:49 AM
your arsehole factor cannot be overstated. and that is my only truly serious, nonsarcastic post today.

Fact: People who use the word "arse" in the 21st century are immeasurable douche-bags.

Drunk Monkey
04-30-2013, 11:55 AM
NSFW / NSFKIDS LINK

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/4909081/game-of-thrones-ygritte-seduces-jon-snow-in-a-cave.html

Figure I'd save you the weirdness of watching nakedness with your children.

eh, I am all for boobies but she may be to far to the other side of the chubby cheerleader spectrum.

but then again Drunk Monkey knows nothing

Fedaykin
04-30-2013, 12:09 PM
Once again, an amazing episode. The writers continue to do an amazing job of getting to the core of the story and adapting it well to the screen.

The actor playing Jaime is about due his emmy methinks. He's doing an amazing job this season with Jaime's arc.


This episode does make me wonder if Shireen becomes more important in B6&7, since they introduced her here. Makes sense with her grayscale affliction and its introduction into the mainline story in B5.

TheReverend
04-30-2013, 12:20 PM
Once again, an amazing episode. The writers continue to do an amazing job of getting to the core of the story and adapting it well to the screen.

The actor playing Jaime is about due his emmy methinks. He's doing an amazing job this season with Jaime's arc.


This episode does make me wonder if Shireen becomes more important in B6&7, since they introduced her here. Makes sense with her grayscale affliction and its introduction into the mainline story in B5.


Itd be nearly impossible for her to be less important, so definitely agree. I think Patchface is going to have something moderately significant too... their significance will probably come from the same event, imo

Johnykbr
04-30-2013, 12:23 PM
Itd be nearly impossible for her to be less important, so definitely agree. I think Patchface is going to have something moderately significant too... their significance will probably come from the same event, imo

Did Patchface make an appearance yet on the show? I know during the credits of the last episode that put his odd sayings to a little rhyme but I never saw him

Baba Booey
04-30-2013, 12:33 PM
Book readers:

I just started reading ADWD and finished the first Bran chapter.

Do you think Coldhands is Benjen Stark or is that a little too obvious or George R. R.?

TheReverend
04-30-2013, 12:38 PM
Did Patchface make an appearance yet on the show? I know during the credits of the last episode that put his odd sayings to a little rhyme but I never saw him

According to IMDB no.

And is that what that was? The song-ish during the credits?

GF and I were sitting around trying to figure out where it came from.

Johnykbr
04-30-2013, 12:59 PM
According to IMDB no.

And is that what that was? The song-ish during the credits?

GF and I were sitting around trying to figure out where it came from.

Yeah, he would always get his Yakov Smirnoff on and pretty much repeat everything she said under the sea. I think they creators saw that had a hit with the Rains of Castamere and are trying a bit too hard this season with those songs.

MagicHef
04-30-2013, 01:01 PM
According to IMDB no.

And is that what that was? The song-ish during the credits?

GF and I were sitting around trying to figure out where it came from.

Shireen was singing Patchface's sayings not only over the credits, but when Stannis first walks into her room. I'm worried that Patchface will not be in the show at all, and the important parts of his character will be incorporated into Shireen.

Baba Booey
04-30-2013, 01:41 PM
Yeah, he would always get his Yakov Smirnoff on and pretty much repeat everything she said under the sea. I think they creators saw that had a hit with the Rains of Castamere and are trying a bit too hard this season with those songs.

They butchered "The Bear and the Maiden", imo.

Old Dude
04-30-2013, 05:49 PM
They butchered "The Bear and the Maiden", imo.

That's really my only complaint about the whole season so far. A big fat pimple on the face of the Mona Lisa. WTF were they thinking?

Oh well.

Meanwhile, for those of you who are looking for a relatively spoiler-free* (and somewhat entertaining) review of the Targaryan and Lannister backstories, let me suggest these links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnfYj-cHM5c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9q4Ht-W164

Caution: CBG19's language might be offensive to some and probably isn't work-safe. But she gets to the point fairly fast.


* assuming you've watched the first two seasons.

StugotsIII
04-30-2013, 05:56 PM
I loved the scene with Stanis and his daughter...first time he was human.

Johnykbr
05-01-2013, 08:12 AM
They butchered "The Bear and the Maiden", imo.

The books showed the inflection in the words and the song just totally threw that away.

El Guapo
05-01-2013, 08:14 PM
Let's have a break from the comments for a second.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1yydcG9woWA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

El Guapo
05-01-2013, 08:15 PM
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7228902400/hE86C75C2/

...

El Guapo
05-01-2013, 08:15 PM
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7297940224/h373F1578/


...

El Guapo
05-01-2013, 08:16 PM
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7227692288/hA98B5654/




https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7400478976/hFA1BBA95/

....

El Guapo
05-01-2013, 08:17 PM
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7313629184/hCF55A0BF/

OK, carry on. :D

Lestat
05-01-2013, 10:25 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/40a93f48a823dcf7f295e07f7151f668/tumblr_mit4s1NzVZ1qzmhlxo3_500.gif

....

s0phr0syne
05-03-2013, 07:36 AM
Something I need spoiled: Do we ever get to see an Arya and Needle reunion?

Drunk Monkey
05-03-2013, 08:37 AM
Something I need spoiled: Do we ever get to see an Arya and Needle reunion?

Yes, then no then we have to wait probably 5 more years to find out if yes again.

Baba Booey
05-03-2013, 10:00 AM
When should we expect the Winds of Winter? 2015?

SonOfLe-loLang
05-03-2013, 10:04 AM
I went to a panel discussion with DB Weiss and David Benioff the other night about the show. I guess I have nothing really of interest to say, but it was cool to get insight into their decision process when it came to adapting the books.

TheReverend
05-03-2013, 10:29 AM
I went to a panel discussion with DB Weiss and David Benioff the other night about the show. I guess I have nothing really of interest to say, but it was cool to get insight into their decision process when it came to adapting the books.

You could start with some details!

SonOfLe-loLang
05-03-2013, 11:12 AM
You could start with some details!

There wasn't really a particular juicy tidbit, but they did talk about a few things:

-- They chose to portray Cersei in the manner they did because Lena Headey's audition stood out, and they thought the character would benefit from being less of an ice queen.

-- The famous Littlefinger hooker scene from season one was actually not meant to be part of the show at all. It was just an audition seen for Aiden Gillam, but he nailed it, so they incorporated it. Littlefingers character is featured more because they love the actor.

-- Martin's wife made mention that there's one character he won't kill off simply because she's her fav. But then when they made mention of this to George, he scoffed and said "oh, thats just what i told her."

-- Diane Rigg refers to them as naughty little boys.

-- Their scripts often come in really short so they fill them with interesting convos between characters they like (part of the reason for the Arya/Tywin scenes that aren't featured in the book.)

-- The rumor that George told them the ending is true. And they often consult with him about the future to make sure they don't kill off any characters that play an important role in the future.


It was just an interesting discussion about adaptation from books to screen, how much they have to cut out, how they decided to change things here and there.

TheReverend
05-03-2013, 11:18 AM
Repped. Awesome stuff, thanks for sharing.

Taco John
05-03-2013, 11:43 AM
Great stuff. I've listened to several GRRM discussions where he talks about how there are certain "butterfly effect" issues that D&D have to solve. For some reason, I've always thought something more would be of Patchface, so their decision to leave him out entirely is interesting to me. I think he'd have been a huge hit if done right, or a huge flop if not. For whatever reason, I've always thought Patchface would turn out to be some form of "Hodor" to the little princess that was important to the story.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-03-2013, 11:50 AM
They were talking about what a challenge the pilot was to make, to get tone and all the characters down. In fact, the first cut of the pilot (or maybe it was just the first shooting draft of the script, cant recall) was lost on a lot of people because they forgot to mention Jaime and Cersei were brother and sister. So people were like "wait, why is it a big deal that they had sex?"

Johnykbr
05-03-2013, 11:55 AM
I've listened to several GRRM discussions where he talks about how there are certain "butterfly effect" issues that D&D have to solve.

I take it that means GRRM hasn't always been happy with some of the changes then?

Lestat
05-03-2013, 12:07 PM
There wasn't really a particular juicy tidbit, but they did talk about a few things:

-- They chose to portray Cersei in the manner they did because Lena Headey's audition stood out, and they thought the character would benefit from being less of an ice queen.

-- The famous Littlefinger hooker scene from season one was actually not meant to be part of the show at all. It was just an audition seen for Aiden Gillam, but he nailed it, so they incorporated it. Littlefingers character is featured more because they love the actor.

-- Martin's wife made mention that there's one character he won't kill off simply because she's her fav. But then when they made mention of this to George, he scoffed and said "oh, thats just what i told her."

-- Diane Rigg refers to them as naughty little boys.

-- Their scripts often come in really short so they fill them with interesting convos between characters they like (part of the reason for the Arya/Tywin scenes that aren't featured in the book.)

-- The rumor that George told them the ending is true. And they often consult with him about the future to make sure they don't kill off any characters that play an important role in the future.


It was just an interesting discussion about adaptation from books to screen, how much they have to cut out, how they decided to change things here and there.

fascinating. it doesn't tell a ton but it offers a lot of insight into the how's and why's.

v2micca
05-03-2013, 01:32 PM
Great stuff. I've listened to several GRRM discussions where he talks about how there are certain "butterfly effect" issues that D&D have to solve. For some reason, I've always thought something more would be of Patchface, so their decision to leave him out entirely is interesting to me. I think he'd have been a huge hit if done right, or a huge flop if not. For whatever reason, I've always thought Patchface would turn out to be some form of "Hodor" to the little princess that was important to the story.


I suspect one of the big "butterfly effect" issues is the killing of Mago in the first season. From his interviews, GRRM has indicated that Mago would play a significant role in the upcoming 6th novel. It will be interesting to see how the show runners work around that plot point.

BroncsRule
05-04-2013, 09:01 AM
I suspect one of the big "butterfly effect" issues is the killing of Mago in the first season. From his interviews, GRRM has indicated that Mago would play a significant role in the upcoming 6th novel. It will be interesting to see how the show runners work around that plot point.

Martin himself wrote the script for the season one episode "the pointy end", in which Drogo kills Mago. If he didn't want him dead, maybe he shouldn't have killed him.

Requiem
05-04-2013, 03:29 PM
Just started the second season on BluRay. This show is awesome.

Johnykbr
05-04-2013, 04:20 PM
Martin himself wrote the script for the season one episode "the pointy end", in which Drogo kills Mago. If he didn't want him dead, maybe he shouldn't have killed him.

I get the feeling that GRRM's vision of the ending has changed several times since they started plotting out the series. The concern I have until the Winds of Winter is released, is whether it will stay a TV series based on a book or become a set of books inspired by a TV series.

Considering he is going to waste time creating a book about his favorite sayings and quotes of Tyrion, I don't have much faith in Martin delivering a high quality ending.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
05-04-2013, 04:52 PM
^
Honestly, I'll just be happy if Martin can finish this thing before he kicks the bucket. He's old, in bad shape, and has had health problems on and off for years, though nothing overly serious.

Five years between books sucks. I'm not sure he has ten years left, and he's notorious for over-writing anyway. What started out as a trilogy is now at least 7 books, and I have serious doubts he'll be able to finish the series in two more books. This thing could easily go to 10 books like Sword of Truth or Wheel of Time.

DivineLegion
05-04-2013, 05:05 PM
What about Xaro Xhoan Daxos getting killed in the show?

Fedaykin
05-04-2013, 06:07 PM
One of the things I loved about the last episode was the sword fight was done in a very authentic way. Not prissy fencing crap (which would never work with longswords, hand and a half, etc.). Just two men going at it, using their swords almost as much like clubs as edged weapons.

v2micca
05-04-2013, 10:16 PM
What about Xaro Xhoan Daxos getting killed in the show?

They can work around that easily enough. He was just locked in a vault. Plenty of ways he could have escaped and it would actually play into the antagonistic relation he has developed with Daenerys since book 2.

Taco John
05-05-2013, 12:23 AM
I take it that means GRRM hasn't always been happy with some of the changes then?

Every interview I've read he says he's very happy. He's got a lot of roots in television, so he's very aware of sacrifices that have to be made along the way due to the constraints of television production. He says he sees them as two very different things, and he enjoys watching the adaption. His biggest gripe that I've heard, are that scenes that he thought would make the cut weren't included for one reason or another, even though the were shot or read during casting. But he says it's a small gripe. Overall, he's very pleased with the outcome so far.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
05-05-2013, 03:35 AM
He has to be ecstatic with the show so far. The Sword of Truth fantasy series, which is arguably just as good as Song of Ice and Fire, was made into a TV show and sucked ass. They changed too much, made it episodic, and made what was a heavy R rated series into a PG one.

This is by far the best fantasy adaptation for TV I've ever seen. It's not even remotely close. I remember when Martin announced he was in talks with HBO, I thought there was no way they could pull this off, HBO or not. Everytime I watch the show now, I'm just amazed. The casting is so spot on, the scripts are great and they are actually sticking to the books pretty heavily.

I'm just amazed it all came together so well, and I'm probably more amazed that mainstream folks are watching fantasy in record numbers.

Fedaykin
05-05-2013, 03:39 AM
The Sword of Truth fantasy series, which is arguably just as good as Song of Ice and Fire,

Not even close.

Old Dude
05-05-2013, 06:41 PM
I'm a little worried that King Joff is mellowing out. I haven't heard anyone demanding that he be snuffed for nearly 5 or 6 days now.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m64i5zfviu1rnsm14o5_r2_250.gif

cutthemdown
05-05-2013, 06:48 PM
One of the things I loved about the last episode was the sword fight was done in a very authentic way. Not prissy fencing crap (which would never work with longswords, hand and a half, etc.). Just two men going at it, using their swords almost as much like clubs as edged weapons.

Don't lie you like the gay scenes.

Archer81
05-05-2013, 08:01 PM
I'm a little worried that King Joff is mellowing out. I haven't heard anyone demanding that he be snuffed for nearly 5 or 6 days now.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m64i5zfviu1rnsm14o5_r2_250.gif


Wait for it...


:Broncos:

Requiem
05-05-2013, 08:10 PM
Absolutely hate TV, but this show is just balls to the wall awesome. I finished up the second season this weekend and was blown away. I fell asleep during two episodes (because it was like 2 AM) and I couldn't go onto the next ones (I tried) without refinishing the others. Just so much info. So awesome. Lovely boobs. Cute ladies. People just murking. This show has it all. Could be the greatest of all time.

BroncsCheer
05-05-2013, 08:15 PM
Cool thread.
As a HUGE fan of the books (three passes through thanks in part to Nook) all I want to know is WHAT IS THE ONE WORD BRIENNE SAYS?

Any ideas? I really like her arch in the books and the kingslayers redemption is a great story too.

Kudos to the HBO show - they're doing a great job too.

Winds of Winter, heavy set Giants fan ...... Why don't you show me it?

Rascal
05-05-2013, 08:22 PM
Sword swallower thru and thru. Lol!!!

Little Finger is scary and Jeffrey is a sick SOB.

Lestat
05-05-2013, 08:49 PM
Sword swallower thru and thru. Lol!!!

Little Finger is scary and Jeffrey is a sick SOB.

that episode was brilliant. i loved the little standoff between varys and little finger. it was a full on "mine is bigger than yours" moment.
it was well played.

but that scene with Joff looking relaxed and then spanning to showing that he killed the whore with the crossbow is eery.
that is one sick SOB beyond redemption.

Old Dude
05-05-2013, 09:00 PM
okay never mind

Baba Booey
05-05-2013, 09:19 PM
George R.R. Martin himself wrote next week's episode. Should be awesome.

Rascal
05-05-2013, 10:31 PM
George R.R. Martin himself wrote next week's episode. Should be awesome.

:pantswet:

Taco John
05-05-2013, 11:42 PM
Cool thread.
As a HUGE fan of the books (three passes through thanks in part to Nook) all I want to know is WHAT IS THE ONE WORD BRIENNE SAYS?

Any ideas? I really like her arch in the books and the kingslayers redemption is a great story too.

Kudos to the HBO show - they're doing a great job too.

Winds of Winter, heavy set Giants fan ...... Why don't you show me it?

>all I want to know is WHAT IS THE ONE WORD BRIENNE SAYS?

SWORD!

She swore her sword to spare Podrick Payne's life.

Source: GRRM (MISCON 2012)

DivineLegion
05-06-2013, 01:07 PM
What's with the show droping Edric Storm, and having Gendry fill his shoes. I can see how they can tie that into later events, but Melisande taking place of the the old crone, in giving Arya her prophecy, that was just weird.

DivineLegion
05-06-2013, 01:09 PM
Oh! I'm building a cyvasse board. Any input, ideas, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'll post pictures for you guys in the next day or so.

v2micca
05-06-2013, 01:43 PM
What's with the show droping Edric Storm, and having Gendry fill his shoes. I can see how they can tie that into later events, but Melisande taking place of the the old crone, in giving Arya her prophecy, that was just weird.

Plus, if Melisandre's teaser of 'we will meet again' holds water, the TV series may have spoiled the Book series for the first time. (I say might have because I can't remember Arya yet meeting with Melisandre in the books and I don't know if their future meeting will happen in the books.)

Honestly, I can understand them dropping Edric Storm. He was a beyond minor character whose only purpose was to Galvanize Davos into action. So, I'm not really annoyed by them dropping his character. However, I am kind annoyed with how Gendry's recruitment has altered his relationship with the Brotherhood. I guess, much like Alfie Allen, they needed to give Joe Dempsie something to do during his Character's long Hiatus in the novels.

ZONA
05-06-2013, 03:14 PM
Have to say I'm linking this year better then last.

DivineLegion
05-06-2013, 03:44 PM
Plus, if Melisandre's teaser of 'we will meet again' holds water, the TV series may have spoiled the Book series for the first time. (I say might have because I can't remember Arya yet meeting with Melisandre in the books and I don't know if their future meeting will happen in the books.)

Honestly, I can understand them dropping Edric Storm. He was a beyond minor character whose only purpose was to Galvanize Davos into action. So, I'm not really annoyed by them dropping his character. However, I am kind annoyed with how Gendry's recruitment has altered his relationship with the Brotherhood. I guess, much like Alfie Allen, they needed to give Joe Dempsie something to do during his Character's long Hiatus in the novels.

True, Edric Storm had more purpose in the first two books as evidence for Lannister incest, and was only relivent in book 3 for his role in feeding leeches (if you know what I mean), and as you said galvanizing Davos.

I hope that wasn't a spoiler for the books.

BroncsCheer
05-06-2013, 03:50 PM
True, Edric Storm had more purpose in the first two books as evidence for Lannister incest, and was only relivent in book 3 for his role in feeding leeches (if you know what I mean), and as you said galvanizing Davos.

I hope that wasn't a spoiler for the books.

There's another thread for DNTRB posters to allow a spoiler free discussion.

Someone will still manage to get butthurt by what you posted tho.....

My opinion is that Storm is a non critical character whose arc can be consumed by another character without significant impact to the overall story.

See Patchface, Lem Lemoncloak etc

They better bring Strong Belwas in at some point. Love that guy!

broncolife
05-06-2013, 05:13 PM
this series!

Baba Booey
05-06-2013, 11:17 PM
There's another thread for DNTRB posters to allow a spoiler free discussion.

Someone will still manage to get butthurt by what you posted tho.....

My opinion is that Storm is a non critical character whose arc can be consumed by another character without significant impact to the overall story.

See Patchface, Lem Lemoncloak etc

They better bring Strong Belwas in at some point. Love that guy!

Yup. Need some Belwas and I needed it yesterday.

Old Dude
05-07-2013, 06:31 AM
I suspect that, for purposes of character economy in the TV series, Belwas is going to be folded into Grey Worm. Completely different physiques and personalities, but not much of a problem plotwise.

TheReverend
05-07-2013, 07:01 AM
I suspect that, for purposes of character economy in the TV series, Belwas is going to be folded into Grey Worm. Completely different physiques and personalities, but not much of a problem plotwise.

Agreed and came to same conclusion Sunday night. The one on one battle and the poison locusts are really are you need Grey Worm to cover.

Yet, at least.

TheReverend
05-07-2013, 07:02 AM
Also, Old Dude or TJ or whoever reads it first:

Since there's a non spoiler thread now, this thread title should maybe get changed with "SPOILERS" so no one accidentally has any big moments taken.

bpc
05-07-2013, 09:21 AM
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=uFDGqMppQzE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DuFDGqMppQzE

Lol!

TheReverend
05-07-2013, 10:38 AM
Fun fact: Dany, Tyrion and Jon killed their mothers in their birthing.

Johnykbr
05-07-2013, 11:05 AM
I'm starting to get worried how they are going to approach Sansa leave King's Landing. Ser Dontos hasn't been seen last season and Little Finger supposedly left.

My wife is beginning to equate this show to True Blood which is apparently now so far away from the books that the show runners have admitted they are just doing their own thing now.

Baba Booey
05-07-2013, 11:30 AM
Remember: Sansa leaves long after Littlefinger is thought to be in the Eyrie

That'll probably be next season anyway, seeing as it doesn't happen until after the royal wedding.

Taco John
05-07-2013, 12:02 PM
Fun fact: Dany, Tyrion and Jon killed their mothers in their birthing.

Also Dany.

There's your three riders...

Taco John
05-07-2013, 12:02 PM
Also, here is what Tyrion might look like if the show stayed true to the books:

http://i2.wp.com/literatortura.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/625671_494003990662917_1962319041_n.jpg?resize=748 %2C628

Taco John
05-07-2013, 12:07 PM
I'm starting to get worried how they are going to approach Sansa leave King's Landing. Ser Dontos hasn't been seen last season and Little Finger supposedly left.

My wife is beginning to equate this show to True Blood which is apparently now so far away from the books that the show runners have admitted they are just doing their own thing now.

They could very easily bring in Ser Dontos at this point and not hardly skip a beat.

Old Dude
05-07-2013, 12:12 PM
Agreed and came to same conclusion Sunday night. The one on one battle and the poison locusts are really are you need Grey Worm to cover.

Yet, at least.

Or, they may do the same thing they did with the Reeds and just delay the introduction of Belwas for one season. That would change his background story somewhat but probably not so much that it would have plot-destroying ripple effects.

TheReverend
05-07-2013, 12:14 PM
Also Dany.

That was literally the first one I mentioned...

Old Dude
05-07-2013, 12:25 PM
The thing that most worries me is that they'll lose actors (and have to replace them with others) if the series goes too many seasons. Related to that is the question of whether and how quickly Martin can get the remaining books out.

We know they've been given the go-ahead for season 4 and that this will probably take us through the second half of the third book, but after that, it gets funky.

Taco John
05-07-2013, 12:40 PM
That was literally the first one I mentioned...

Strange. For some reason I just saw Tyrion and Jon. But good observation nonetheless. I was just thinking about this one a couple of weeks ago after Dany's big episode and wondering if it meant something (of course it does...)

Taco John
05-07-2013, 12:43 PM
The thing that most worries me is that they'll lose actors (and have to replace them with others) if the series goes too many seasons. Related to that is the question of whether and how quickly Martin can get the remaining books out.

We know they've been given the go-ahead for season 4 and that this will probably take us through the second half of the third book, but after that, it gets funky.

As I recall, the 4th and 5th books take place at the same time, don't they? I'm curious how they handle that. I have to believe they'll script them out that way - how can they go an entire season without so many characters like was done in the books...

DivineLegion
05-07-2013, 12:56 PM
Well, they are going to follow A Feast For Crows and A Dance with Dragons combined coronologically, so that should stream line those two books into let's say 3/4 seasons. That puts us in 2016/2017 with the new book Winds of Winter out, and word is GRRM has the 7th book layed out, he just just needs to flesh out the story. Give 2 seasons for Winds of Winter and your in 2018/2019; hopefully the books will be out by then.

It does pose some interesting problems, with Brans balls already droping, and Arya getting older, but they casted a guy in his mid 20s to play Gendry, so who cares. It's not like they stuck to the accurate ages of the characters to begin with. Lets face it, Rob is supposed to be 16, Sansa 13, and the list continues.

DivineLegion
05-07-2013, 12:58 PM
As I recall, the 4th and 5th books take place at the same time, don't they? I'm curious how they handle that. I have to believe they'll script them out that way - how can they go an entire season without so many characters like was done in the books...

I'm fairly certain they have said they are going to combine the two.

StugotsIII
05-07-2013, 01:04 PM
Strange. For some reason I just saw Tyrion and Jon. But good observation nonetheless. I was just thinking about this one a couple of weeks ago after Dany's big episode and wondering if it meant something (of course it does...)

Don't forget about Dany

Old Dude
05-07-2013, 02:59 PM
I'm fairly certain they have said they are going to combine the two.

They almost have to. Otherwise they have half their cast twiddling their thumbs for a year.

Still, it's going to require an awful lot of work from a screenwriter's standpoint. It's not just a matter of rearranging things in chronological order. They'll need to do some major work on some of those subplots to keep the cast size from getting completely out of hand.

Kaylore
05-07-2013, 03:04 PM
We're in season three. I don't see how HBO can sustain the series more than six seasons. I suppose seven is technically reasonable, and very normal for network TV, but not as normal for cable. And abnormal for HBO, who is apparently having their budget stretched to the limit for the series. The Sopranos barely made six and that was shot in Jersey.

My hope is they go like five seasons and then do a movie.

MagicHef
05-07-2013, 03:05 PM
Well, they are going to follow A Feast For Crows and A Dance with Dragons combined coronologically, so that should stream line those two books into let's say 3/4 seasons. That puts us in 2016/2017 with the new book Winds of Winter out, and word is GRRM has the 7th book layed out, he just just needs to flesh out the story. Give 2 seasons for Winds of Winter and your in 2018/2019; hopefully the books will be out by then.

It does pose some interesting problems, with Brans balls already droping, and Arya getting older, but they casted a guy in his mid 20s to play Gendry, so who cares. It's not like they stuck to the accurate ages of the characters to begin with. Lets face it, Rob is supposed to be 16, Sansa 13, and the list continues.

Beric Dondarrion is 21 in the books.

Johnykbr
05-07-2013, 04:03 PM
Beric Dondarrion is 21 in the books.

Wow, I totally didn't catch that. Interesting

DivineLegion
05-07-2013, 11:28 PM
They almost have to. Otherwise they have half their cast twiddling their thumbs for a year.

Still, it's going to require an awful lot of work from a screenwriter's standpoint. It's not just a matter of rearranging things in chronological order. They'll need to do some major work on some of those subplots to keep the cast size from getting completely out of hand.

They will, again my recollection is linked to what I believe was a co-interview between the writers and GRRM. They said they wanted to keep things fluid, and George was pretty pleased by with the idea of altering the chronology. I'll see if I can't find the interview tomorrow, and post it for you guys.

elsid13
05-08-2013, 02:52 AM
We're in season three. I don't see how HBO can sustain the series more than six seasons. I suppose seven is technically reasonable, and very normal for network TV, but not as normal for cable. And abnormal for HBO, who is apparently having their budget stretched to the limit for the series. The Sopranos barely made six and that was shot in Jersey.

My hope is they go like five seasons and then do a movie.

Don't forget Rome, Deadwood and other "big" mini-series that HBO has dumped on after 4 seasons. I expect that this won't end well for viewers unless one of the big network jumps in.

Johnykbr
05-08-2013, 09:30 AM
Don't forget Rome, Deadwood and other "big" mini-series that HBO has dumped on after 4 seasons. I expect that this won't end well for viewers unless one of the big network jumps in.

Rome and Deadwood may have had the soaring reviews like GoT but they didn't have the viewers like it. Also, GoT blu-rays and DVD sales are through the roof.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
05-08-2013, 10:09 AM
I'm starting to get worried how they are going to approach Sansa leave King's Landing. Ser Dontos hasn't been seen last season and Little Finger supposedly left.

My wife is beginning to equate this show to True Blood which is apparently now so far away from the books that the show runners have admitted they are just doing their own thing now.


This seems pretty straight forward to me. Dontos sneaks her to whereever Littlefinger has a ship ready. He doesn't really have to be on the ship, he just needs to hire a captain/crew that will bring her to the Eyrie after silencing Dontos.

It's a minor change, but it still has the same end result.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
05-08-2013, 10:24 AM
As for a Feast for Crows/Dance with Dragons. I don't see that being more than two seasons. Feast was pretty brutal at times in terms of sheer boringness, mainly because of all the new characters. A lot of that can be done much quicker on a TV show, so half of that book probably can be summed up in a few episodes. And it's kind of the same thing in Dance to a degree.

I thought Martin really struggled with both books, at least compared to the first three. If they cherry pick storylines, and omit others, it might even be an improvement, though Dance started to pick things back up.

But, I mean, do we really need to spend time with the Sand Snakes? Is Darkstar really all that important to the overall storyline? Does anyone really give a flying crap about either of the princesses in Dorne? Is the ridiculous Quentyn arc really necessary? And how much time really needs to be spent on Daenerys and her social life in Meereen?

They can really trim the fat on those books, and they probably need to.

Old Dude
05-08-2013, 10:57 AM
Generally speaking, that's my feeling as well. The series will probably peak at the end of season 4. I'd hate to see them waste all that momentum on too many secondary and tertiary characters and subplots.

If they really feel a need to address more of that stuff, maybe they could add it as "extra" features for DVD sales.

Personally, I'd prefer to see all of book 4 and the corresponding background portion of book 5 collapsed into a single season.

Kaylore
05-08-2013, 10:58 AM
Rome and Deadwood may have had the soaring reviews like GoT but they didn't have the viewers like it. Also, GoT blu-rays and DVD sales are through the roof.

Rome also got torpedoed by the writers striker.

Drunk Monkey
05-08-2013, 11:39 AM
Rome and Deadwood may have had the soaring reviews like GoT but they didn't have the viewers like it. Also, GoT blu-rays and DVD sales are through the roof.

And they could be so much better if HBO had a better way to watch their programing.

http://screenrant.com/most-pirated-tv-shows-game-of-thrones-2012/

DivineLegion
05-08-2013, 12:36 PM
As for a Feast for Crows/Dance with Dragons. I don't see that being more than two seasons. Feast was pretty brutal at times in terms of sheer boringness, mainly because of all the new characters. A lot of that can be done much quicker on a TV show, so half of that book probably can be summed up in a few episodes. And it's kind of the same thing in Dance to a degree.

I thought Martin really struggled with both books, at least compared to the first three. If they cherry pick storylines, and omit others, it might even be an improvement, though Dance started to pick things back up.

But, I mean, do we really need to spend time with the Sand Snakes? Is Darkstar really all that important to the overall storyline? Does anyone really give a flying crap about either of the princesses in Dorne? Is the ridiculous Quentyn arc really necessary? And how much time really needs to be spent on Daenerys and her social life in Meereen?

They can really trim the fat on those books, and they probably need to.

Dorne is very important to the progression of the story, and I have a feeling the Sandsnakes will become bigger characters once Danny makes it Westeros. Darkstar has all of the physical features of a Targaryan, so there could be something there. I think Quintyn story explains how Euron happens upon his horn. All in all, both books set up a lot of future events.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
05-08-2013, 06:45 PM
Dorne is very important to the progression of the story, and I have a feeling the Sandsnakes will become bigger characters once Danny makes it Westeros. Darkstar has all of the physical features of a Targaryan, so there could be something there. I think Quintyn story explains how Euron happens upon his horn. All in all, both books set up a lot of future events.

Not disputing that there are reasons Martin introduced them. Just disputing whether the show needs to introduce them or discuss them in the way Martin did. I expect an awful lot of the laborous backstory building to be trimmed away. I actually like what they're doing now with Gendry and Grey Worm to streamline the show, at the expense of Strong Belwas and Edric Storm. In the books I prefer the massive amount of characters, but they already can't give some major players like Bran and the freakin' dire wolves enough air time and development.

Feast was a tedious book for me, that never rose to the level of the others, if the show falls into that trap, it won't recover. I do think there are twenty quality episodes to be found between Feast and Dance, but the producers will have to be creative to craft them.

TheReverend
05-08-2013, 06:53 PM
Dorne is very important to the progression of the story, and I have a feeling the Sandsnakes will become bigger characters once Danny makes it Westeros. Darkstar has all of the physical features of a Targaryan, so there could be something there. I think Quintyn story explains how Euron happens upon his horn. All in all, both books set up a lot of future events.

Ohhhhhh there's something there:

Darkstar is Rhaegar. Look at it.

First, the appearance. Both are described as having silver hair and most importantly dark purple eyes​, no doubt if Rhaegar had darkened a lock of his hair it would have added to the effect. (See ADwD Chap: Griffon Reborn, in which JonCon notices that Aegon has lighter eyes than the Dornish Elia and dark purple eyed Rhaegar [one bit of proof showing 'Aegon' is fake])
They are also both described as having 'Iron Tones in his voice' (in Rhaegars case) or 'A Cruel Mouth, and an even crueler tongue' (In Darkstar's case)

Next: The Name. Two of Rhaegars closest friends on the Kings Guard were Gerold Hightower (the White Bull) and Arthur Dayne (The Sword of the Morning), now compare those two to Darkstar's real name.
Gerold Dayne
It seems odd for a man from Dorne to name their son a Reach name, considering they are enemies.

Unless Darkstar is really just an alias for Prince Rhaegar Targaryen. If he had sent a double to the Trident(A man with Valaryian Traits) it could explain how he was defeated so easily by Robert Baratheon. And if the double had taken a blow to the face then there wouldn't be much to recognize him as Rhaegar. The real Rhaegar is in Dorne at this time, waiting for Lyanna to give birth to AAR (Read: Jon Snow) which also makes the fact that Ned met three kingsguard members (Including arguably the two most skilled). When Ned came Rhaegar was away, possibly in Starfall. When word reached him (through Ned's visit) that Lyanna had died he met with Doran. He then becomes Gerold Dayne, Darkstar, of the Night. Which Rhaegar is. He is of the end of the Targaryen line, the 'night' you could say.

He then proceeds to join the group of plotters to crown Myrcella at Doran's command after the Prince catches wind of it. Because of the hate for the Lannisters he slashes at Myrcella but misses.

Darkstar's age is never stated, and people can still be considered handsome at an old age. Tyrion still considers Septon Lemore handsome, even though she is well within her fourties.

And the whole 'Luke Skywalker' comment by that Alfie Allen made concerning Jon Snow's parents. Luke's father is Darth Vader.

Darth Vader,
Darkstar,

Notice the similarities? And like Anikan Skywalker Rhaegar has assumed a different identity if R=DS is true.

DivineLegion
05-08-2013, 06:56 PM
Not disputing that there are reasons Martin introduced them. Just disputing whether the show needs to introduce them or discuss them in the way Martin did. I expect an awful lot of the laborous backstory building to be trimmed away. I actually like what they're doing now with Gendry and Grey Worm to streamline the show, at the expense of Strong Belwas and Edric Storm. In the books I prefer the massive amount of characters, but they already can't give some major players like Bran and the freakin' dire wolves enough air time and development.

Feast was a tedious book for me, that never rose to the level of the others, if the show falls into that trap, it won't recover. I do think there are twenty quality episodes to be found between Feast and Dance, but the producers will have to be creative to craft them.


Well they are already developing Reek, which trims down on DWD. I think the climatic nature of book three is going dig the hoks deep in many casual television fans. Between Sams journey, Johns ascent, Danny's troubles, Tyrions travels, the crazyness that unfolds in Dorne, Briennes perels, Cerseis treachery, the kingsmoot, Loris, and Arya; they have plenty of quality stuff to keep people interested. There is a lot of action when you can delete travel chapters where Brienne is just being suspicious, the princess of Dorne is in a room ect. There is acctually quite a bit of nonstop action when you line the books up.

myMind
05-09-2013, 12:00 AM
Ohhhhhh there's something there:

This is the type of fan fiction that, once read, skews expectations. It seems so epic, but it's just a guess. A wild one at that.

If he is actually still alive this story moves into Dune territory.

TheReverend
05-09-2013, 06:39 AM
This is the type of fan fiction that, once read, skews expectations. It seems so epic, but it's just a guess. A wild one at that.

If he is actually still alive this story moves into Dune territory.

Knowing Martin's lust for frustrating readers, he may have left him alive to no meaningful end.

Old Dude
05-09-2013, 07:38 AM
My guess is that he's just a miscellaneous Targ bastard. Probably some connection there, but he's way too young to be R.

Kaylore
05-09-2013, 07:39 AM
Knowing Martin's lust for frustrating readers, he may have left him alive to no meaningful end.

:rofl:

TheReverend
05-09-2013, 07:46 AM
My guess is that he's just a miscellaneous Targ bastard. Probably some connection there, but he's way too young to be R.

Rhaegar was 24 when he supposedly died on the Trident, which wasn't terribly long before.

Old Dude
05-09-2013, 08:06 AM
Regarding Darkstar:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/77399-the-end-of-darkstar/

Old Dude
05-09-2013, 08:45 AM
The dude I'm most curious about is Maester Marwyn (the mage.)

Seems like he's got a big step up on most of the budding wizards & necromancers.

May very well be the "Arch-maester" for the "magic" link. Already had a big interest in this when most of the others still regarded it as an obscure liberal arts class. To that extent, a rebel within the Citadel.
Connected with Qyburn in terms of undead research. (ghosts)
Trained Mirri Maz Duur.
Has traveled extensively. Also hangs out with numerous undesirables.
He strongly implies to Sam that he has some kind of noble bloodline and seems to be taking him under his wing.
Somehow connected to "the Alchemist." May be in cohoots with Jaqen.
On course to meet up with Dany.
Has been studying this stuff (including the history of dragons) for a long time.

Could be an extremely helpful ally or a very dangerous foe. At the very least a key source of info for the major players.

Unless, of course, Jaqen snuffs him.

Old Dude
05-12-2013, 12:14 PM
Let's hope Theon gets spared the screen time tonight. Time to cut the poor guy some slack.

Heyneck
05-12-2013, 12:51 PM
Game of Thrones games is just awesome!!! Finally a strategy board game to mix it up with Risk!

http://www.ign.com/blogs/gameguy523/2013/05/08/another-way-to-celebrate-your-game-of-thrones-love-the-board-game/

v2micca
05-12-2013, 08:31 PM
Game of Thrones games is just awesome!!! Finally a strategy board game to mix it up with Risk!

http://www.ign.com/blogs/gameguy523/2013/05/08/another-way-to-celebrate-your-game-of-thrones-love-the-board-game/

Its okay. Played it a few years ago with some friends to test it out. The combat mechanics are pretty simple, some may complain that they are overly simple and you only have a choice between 5 houses, Lannister, Tyrell, Stark, Greyjoy, and Baratheon. And you really need 5 players for the game to work. If you try to play with 3 or 4 it gets really unbalanced in favor of the Starks and Lannisters, who won't have anyone to keep them in check. (The game tells you which houses to play per number of players)

Fantasy Flight games also did a Collectable Card Game for the books some years ago. It was pretty fun while it lasted and everyone who played it would laugh out loud at Joffrey's card. Within the mechanics of the game, his ability just so suited the little brat.

lolcopter
05-12-2013, 09:46 PM
Let's hope Theon gets spared the screen time tonight. Time to cut the poor guy some slack.


phrasing

Rascal
05-12-2013, 10:52 PM
that was uninspiring

Rascal
05-12-2013, 10:53 PM
Let's hope Theon gets spared the screen time tonight. Time to cut the poor guy some slack.

His character is reduced.

DivineLegion
05-12-2013, 11:10 PM
His character is reduced.

A member of less contribution.

TheReverend
05-13-2013, 04:42 AM
Let's hope Theon gets spared the screen time tonight. Time to cut the poor guy some slack.

It's just too far.

I get portraying the torture as opposed to how he disappeared from the books for so long, but when they're cutting important parts of the books and allotting that time to Greyjoy getting tortured every episode... now it's just stupid.

v2micca
05-13-2013, 07:25 AM
It's just too far.

I get portraying the torture as opposed to how he disappeared from the books for so long, but when they're cutting important parts of the books and allotting that time to Greyjoy getting tortured every episode... now it's just stupid.


I agree, it has gone beyond absurd at this point. We get it, they are doing mean nasty things to Theon. We no longer require a weekly update. I personally felt that presenting Robb with a piece of Theon's skin would have been more than enough to imply his fate. Plus, now the audience won't get the same surprise that he is actually still alive in a retched reduced form when his plot line picks up again.

Overall, I was kind of disappointed by this episode. I was expecting more when I saw that George R.R. Martin was penning it. He spoiled me with last year's Blackwater episode. Too many scenes felt like we were doing a mandatory check-in on characters to ensure the audience hadn't forgotten about them, without really advancing the plot. Poor Tyrion, book 3 did kind of push him to the side, but he really hasn't had any good scenes this year, nothing to come close to matching his Blackwater speech.

Still, I'm glad that Nicolaj had the patience to stick with the character for two seasons while the show set up his story, because he has been absolutely killing it this year. I would say that 2 of the 5 best scenes of the season belong to him.

StugotsIII
05-13-2013, 09:24 AM
It's just too far.

I get portraying the torture as opposed to how he disappeared from the books for so long, but when they're cutting important parts of the books and allotting that time to Greyjoy getting tortured every episode... now it's just stupid.

THIS^

Frankly I don't at all like Theon's character. Not in the book and not in the show. And it's not a hatred like most have for King Joef. It's just that his character is boring. I get that HBO likes the guy as an actor and that is why they kept him in…but is he really able to show his acting range being tied to a post getting flayed? Wow…Theon's crying again. Wow…Theon's in a great deal of pain again.

Only three episodes left…they will surely end on the Red Wedding…no? Can't wait for that!!!

JLesSPE
05-13-2013, 10:04 AM
I think they're too close to the red wedding to put it off 3 episodes unless they just ignore Robb's camp for 2 of them. It seems to me like they'll get to both weddings as the other plot line has advanced quite a bit too.

TheReverend
05-13-2013, 10:05 AM
I think they're too close to the red wedding to put it off 3 episodes unless they just ignore Robb's camp for 2 of them. It seems to me like they'll get to both weddings as the other plot line has advanced quite a bit too.

Both weddings? There's 3, though :P

StugotsIII
05-13-2013, 10:07 AM
Both weddings? There's 3, though :P

The 3rd one will be in season 4....can't wait!!!!!!!

Taco John
05-13-2013, 10:08 AM
Theon is going to play a big part in seasons to come, as all the book readers know. I think they had to go to this extent for viewers to understand his transformation from the bold, cock-sure braggart, to the whipped dog of a man he is to become. I think we've seen the last Theon Greyjoy scene this season.

I personally thought this was a great episode. I like that GRRM confirmed a few things that were rather debated in the book - Theon's member being one of them. I loved that GRRM finally had Tormund being Tormund. "Tormund hasn't talked about what a beast in the sack he is yet - I'm going to fix that straight away."

I loved the episode. That exchange between Tywinn and Joffrey was perfect. The exchange between Jaime and Qyburn was great. The dragons were amazing, and Clarke's acting in that parlay was great.

MagicHef
05-13-2013, 10:08 AM
So... Jeyne (or at least her counterpart on the show) is definitely pregnant. This was a point of much speculation because it is never spelled out in the books, and could have big consequences for the story going forward.

JLesSPE
05-13-2013, 10:17 AM
Both weddings? There's 3, though :P

Really? I can only remember red and royal, who else gets hitched? Unless you're talking about Lysa. That one seems pretty far off at this point.

Taco John
05-13-2013, 10:20 AM
Really? I can only remember red and royal, who else gets hitched? Unless you're talking about Lysa. That one seems pretty far off at this point.

Tyrion gets married to Sansa.

TheReverend
05-13-2013, 10:22 AM
So... Jeyne (or at least her counterpart on the show) is definitely pregnant. This was a point of much speculation because it is never spelled out in the books, and could have big consequences for the story going forward.

Or she's completely worthless to the story from here on out and they'll kill her at the Red Wedding.

We'll find out soon though.

MagicHef
05-13-2013, 10:25 AM
Or she's completely worthless to the story from here on out and they'll kill her at the Red Wedding.

We'll find out soon though.

That would be extremely GRRM-esque.

JLesSPE
05-13-2013, 10:28 AM
Tyrion gets married to Sansa.

Of course I miss the obvious one.

Old Dude
05-13-2013, 10:40 AM
Overall, I was pleased with the episode. The world is really coming alive with the panorama shots. Not the most dramatic events, but lots of character shifts and multiple plotlines set up for the final three eps.

I imagine we'll get at least one more Theon scene this season, but probably not until episode 10.

Looking forward to some fun in Yunkai next week, more of the Hound, and some cool stuff up north.

lolcopter
05-13-2013, 06:34 PM
so i'm not a book reader, obv, but why do the wildlings wanna invade the south? is their goal just to invade and post up, making that their new home? north of the wall is really crappy, but i guess i'm just not understanding their end game here. as jon snow said, they don't really stand any real chance invading the kingdom.