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BroncoBuff
08-01-2008, 02:11 PM
About the only iconic piece of music Zep ever came up with was Stairway.
:oyvey:

We'll just have to agree to disuwrong.
/

alkemical
08-01-2008, 02:40 PM
Eh, i'd rather listen to sabbath over zepplin or the who

bombay
08-01-2008, 08:28 PM
Has anyone else here seen the Led Zep tribute band No Quarter?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-02-2008, 12:03 AM
I hypothesize that if you got together fifty music fans and played them licks from those two (admittedly excellent) guitarists, the fans would recognize far more of Pete's than they would Jimmy's.

You're kidding me, right?

Page is the master of the classic, immortalized riff ("Dazed and Confused," "Whole Lotta Love," "Immigrant Song," "Rock and Roll," "Black Dog," "The Ocean," "Kashmir," "Nobody's Fault But Mine," to name just a few.)

The best that can be said about Towshend as a guitarist is that he's (arguably) a strong rhythm guitarist.

About the only iconic piece of music Zep ever came up with was Stairway..., and they stole that from Randy California. ;D

1) How was "Stairway" stolen?

2) "Stairway" the only iconic piece?

How about "Whole Lotta Love," "Immigrant Song," "Black Dog," "Rock and Roll," and "Kashmir" for starters?

BroncoBuff
08-02-2008, 12:42 AM
This is an exchange Roh and I had a few weeks ago in the "Sweet Guitars" thread. As I recall, Roh had thrown out the "theft" charge about Stairway, and after I posted this answer below he was all, "I can't believe you spent so much time on this response." :~ohyah!:


Want a real eye opener? When Zep first came to the States they toured with the great California band, Spirit. Go to some tune library and listen to a Spirit tune called Taurus. I guess it's more of an ear opener. ;)
Yes, that Spirit riff is very similar to the intro to Stairway ... but there are some differences: 'Taurus' is a string-laden easy-listening instrumental. There are no lyrics, and the only guitar part is that four-bar decending melody. In Stairway, Page uses both the descending line, and a simultaneous ASCENDING line as counterpoint.

Everybody here plays Stairway ... so here's the deal: Taurus has the melodic descending notes A, A-flat, G ... the 7th, 6th and 5th frets on the D string; but Stairway adds the ascending A, B and C ... going up the 5th, 7th, 8th frets on the the high E string. Both melodies drop from there to the D-major (although Taurus does not have the snappy little G to A-minor bang-bang resolution). Besides, the guy in Spirit supposedly agreed Jimmy could use that short snippet. In today's era of sampling, it hardly seems worth mentioning ....

BTW - Sitting here just now I realize that is also the SAME MELODY and intervals as the 1945 #1 hit by Bing Crosby and Les Paul (yes that Les Paul) called "It's Been a Long Time" ... sing it with me!

Kiss me once
Then kiss me twice
Then kiss me once again
It's been a long long time
http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/war/itsbeenalonglongtime.htm


I'm serious - hum that melody and think of Stairway as you go ... actually, maybe that's where Randy California got 'Taurus' in the first place ... ;D
.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-02-2008, 12:43 AM
Has anyone else here seen the Led Zep tribute band No Quarter?

These guys are about the best Zeppelin tribute band I've ever seen:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/c3r8MiqkxEs&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/c3r8MiqkxEs&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-02-2008, 12:45 AM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8KtVQwhGv5U&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8KtVQwhGv5U&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

BroncoBuff
08-02-2008, 12:51 AM
I don't think The Who did more than three or four songs that match even just this one mid-level Zep song Ten Years Gone ... half a dozen tops.

And I happen to LIKE The Who.
.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-02-2008, 12:52 AM
This is an exchange Roh and I had a few weeks ago in the "Sweet Guitars" thread. As I recall, Roh had thrown out the "theft" charge about Stairway, and after I posted this answer below he was all, "I can't believe you spent so much time on this response." :~ohyah!:



Yes, that Spirit riff is very similar to the intro to Stairway ... but there are some differences: 'Taurus' is a string-laden easy-listening instrumental. There are no lyrics, and the only guitar part is that four-bar decending melody. In Stairway, Page uses both the descending line, and a simultaneous ASCENDING line as counterpoint.

Everybody here plays Stairway ... so here's the deal: Taurus has the melodic descending notes A, A-flat, G ... the 7th, 6th and 5th frets on the D string; but Stairway adds the ascending A, B and C ... going up the 5th, 7th, 8th frets on the the high E string. Both melodies drop from there to the D-major (although Taurus does not have the snappy little G to A-minor bang-bang resolution). Besides, the guy in Spirit supposedly agreed Jimmy could use that short snippet. In today's era of sampling, it hardly seems worth mentioning ....

BTW - Sitting here just now I realize that is also the SAME MELODY and intervals as the 1945 #1 hit by Bing Crosby and Les Paul (yes that Les Paul) called "It's Been a Long Time" ... sing it with me!

Kiss me once
Then kiss me twice
Then kiss me once again
It's been a long long time
http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/war/itsbeenalonglongtime.htm


I'm serious - hum that melody and think of Stairway as you go ... actually, maybe that's where Randy California got 'Taurus' in the first place ... ;D
.

Correct.

The chord progression that the 'A' section to "Stairway to Heaven" is based on (Ami - Ami/MA9 - Ami7 - D/F#) is a very common progression in jazz, bossa nova, pop, and rock - it certainly wasn't invented by Spirit.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-02-2008, 12:57 AM
I don't think The Who did more than three or four songs that match even just this one mid-level Zep song Ten Years Gone ... half a dozen tops.

And I happen to LIKE The Who.
.

I liked some of The Who's songs - but never enough to actually buy one of their records.

The tremendous disgust I feel when I see these goons smashing their instruments on the stage pretty much ruins any positive feeling I might have about their music.

BroncoBuff
08-02-2008, 01:02 AM
The lower part of the two simultaneous/counterpoint Stairway melodies ... descending down the D-string one fret at a time, is identical to that Bing Crosby/Les Paul song ... and in fact, kinda the same as the acoustic part at the beginning of "Patiently," on Journey's (great great) Infinity album.

The big difference (and it's a BIG diference) between Stairway - and the Spirit, Crosby and Journey tunes, is that Pagey adds the counterpoint ASCENSION up the high e-string, A-B-C.


Yeah, chromatic descensions in base notes of melodies are common.
/

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-02-2008, 01:08 AM
The big difference (and it's a BIG diference) between Stairway - and the Spirit, Crosby and Journey tunes, is that Pagey adds the counterpoint ASCENSION up the high e-string, A-B-C.


Yep.

That's called "contrary motion," BTW.

bombay
08-02-2008, 02:58 AM
These guys are about the best Zeppelin tribute band I've ever seen:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/c3r8MiqkxEs&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/c3r8MiqkxEs&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Damn. That's very imressive.

Hogan11
08-02-2008, 06:45 AM
When it comes to further Zeppelin discussion, I'm just going to post links to old threads rather than rehash this stuff yet again.

Here : http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=55283

Hogan11
08-02-2008, 07:03 AM
yea Hogan , REM is another one i take hell from my friends for ... I can't help they have poor taste , cause i love me some REM heheh .. i must have bought automatic for the people 3 times ...

I'm one of the last hangers on when it comes to them as well....saw them quite a few times in the 80's, met them..the whole thing and ended up a true believer till Out Of Time landed (a bad album, no surprise it's their most popular :nono:). Automatic... contains some very fine materail, but not everything works (about half the record) and a lot of tracks are bogged down with syrupy strings and orchestration (something that would dog the band from here on out, the damage of Out Of Time's success as I like to call it). "Nightswimming" is the last of the Stipe scat poetry tracks (they're sorely missed). The real gem off from AFTP IMHO is "Find The River" a majestic, mournful, beautiful mid tempo jangle brood that's just damn near perfect in summing up the entire project.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jJh9bBzoQLY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jJh9bBzoQLY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Anyways, the bottom fell out after Berry left and they went into this insane run of trying to produce an album equal to Pet Sounds. Chamber music kills almost every band that attempts it and R.E.M. was no exception. Afterwards, the rockers became mostly clubfooted and clumsy, Stipes poetic scat pieces disappeared, he over emoted and everything took a turn towards an adult MOR type sound that was just....well, boring. I had high hopes for the new album but after a few listens, it feels like a knockoff and nothing on it really stands out or is really memorable. :(

It's hard to match the consistancy that band had from 1982 thru say Green though, it was an amazing run of one top quality release after another that very few bands ever obtain....but when the bar keeps being raised and expectations continue to grow beyond the abilities, things will crash down at one point or another....for them, they sputtered for a few albums before crashing with Up. They remain one of my favorite bands of all time, that said however, I really think it's time for them to pull the plug (and that's really painful for me to say)..nothing they attempt is working anymore and they just seem so zapped of energy and ideas (see the outright tragic R.E.M. Live for confirmation).

BroncoBuff
08-02-2008, 10:23 AM
Yep.

That's called "contrary motion," BTW.
Well, I liked "ascending counterpoint" ... but I'll defer to the rock star ;D
.

BroncoBuff
08-02-2008, 10:28 AM
When it comes to further Zeppelin discussion, I'm just going to post links to old threads rather than rehash this stuff yet again.

Here : http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=55283
Good idea. Keep those links handy, you're gonna need 'em ;D
n

BroncoBuff
08-02-2008, 10:42 AM
Damn. That's very imressive.
They're definitely incredible musicians, and the singer is particularly great. But the guitars do lack that frenetic Pagey style ... where he gets so wrapped up in the frantic urgency of playing. This I think is what leads to his unmistakeable quasi-sloppiness ... which in turns drives the frenetic urgency of the music even more. Had Page been more machine-precision like in his playing like say Steve Howe, Zeppelin would not have been the same, not at all. And these guitars players here are more precision and machine-like imo.

Plus the drummer lacks that legendary Bonham leadfoot ... although that could be my computer speakers.

I guess the point is that, the way I feel about Zeppelin, it's hard to pretend they're anything other than inimitable.
.

Rohirrim
08-02-2008, 10:57 AM
When it comes to further Zeppelin discussion, I'm just going to post links to old threads rather than rehash this stuff yet again.

Here : http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=55283

I never said I didn't love them. Ha!

I'm just saying The Who were a better band, they broke far more barriers and created many more iconic pieces of music. Jimmy Page was probably the better technical guitarist (hell, wasn't he some kind of child prodigy?) and Bonham was definitely the better drummer (in fact, IMO, the best rock and roll drummer of all time), although Keith's claim to fame wasn't technical prowess but pure, animalistic drive. Then, they had the wildest bass player in rock in Entwistle. I won't concede Plant as the better vocalist. That would be like saying a coronet is better than a trumpet - it's subjective. The Who had a huge sound and Daltrey had the perfect voice for it. Plant was great on some songs, a little too "flamboyant" on others, if you get my drift. ;D

Maybe I'm jaded. I saw the Who live and never saw Zep live, but relegating the Who to second tier status with Yes and Sabbath is criminal, IMHO. BTW, I never liked the busting up of instruments either. Hell, I didn't like it when Jimi torched his Strat. As far as the Randy California thing goes, I'm just poking ya, BB.:poke: Everybody is influenced by everybody else, sometimes purely subliminally. Hell, Randy was previously in a band (Jimmy James and the Blue Flames) with Hendrix (who gave him the "California" nickname, to distinguish him from another Randy in the band who was Randy "Texas") and you could hear some Jimi in Randy, and vice versa, ever after. In fact, Randy would have been in the "Experience" but his mom and dad wouldn't let him go to London because he was too young. ROFL!

BTW, BB (taking a piece from the thread Hogan pasted above) you should really take a listen to John Mayall's Bluesbreakers with Eric Clapton - pre-Cream. This is the album where Clapton placed the Les Paul on the altar of Marshall amps and changed rock and roll forever. All that came after in rock owes a nod to this one.

bombay
08-02-2008, 11:20 AM
They're definitely incredible musicians, and the singer is particularly great. But the guitars do lack that frenetic Pagey style ... where he gets so wrapped up in the frantic urgency of playing. This I think is what leads to his unmistakeable quasi-sloppiness ... which in turns drives the frenetic urgency of the music even more. Had Page been more machine-precision like in his playing like say Steve Howe, Zeppelin would not have been the same, not at all. And these guitars players here are more precision and machine-like imo.

Plus the drummer lacks that legendary Bonham leadfoot ... although that could be my computer speakers.

I guess the point is that, the way I feel about Zeppelin, it's hard to pretend they're anything other than inimitable.
.

I pretty much agree with what you're saying, but, lacking the real thing (although I'm of the opinion that they will tour - probably in '09), a tribute band is as close as it comes. The one LABF posted is excellent, although they don't offer either the stage presence, or the Page freneticism, or the Bonham 'leadfootedness', etc, as you noted. The one i saw recently, No Quarter, goes for the whole thing - the look as well as the sound. I don't think they are as good as the youtube video above, but it's a good evening of entertainment if you don't get too wrapped up in seeking perfection from an imitation. I saw Led Zeppelin a couple of times - I think in 1973 and 1975, and if you were looking for reproduction of what came out of the studio, you were in for a disappointment. For me, the energy of the performance more than made up for it.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-02-2008, 05:23 PM
Well, I liked "ascending counterpoint" ... but I'll defer to the rock star ;D
.

Rock star?

Not!

I work for a living. ;)

Anyway, I thought you might like to know the correct musical term for the technique you were describing. :thumbs:

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-02-2008, 05:31 PM
They're definitely incredible musicians, and the singer is particularly great. But the guitars do lack that frenetic Pagey style ... where he gets so wrapped up in the frantic urgency of playing. This I think is what leads to his unmistakeable quasi-sloppiness ... which in turns drives the frenetic urgency of the music even more. Had Page been more machine-precision like in his playing like say Steve Howe, Zeppelin would not have been the same, not at all. And these guitars players here are more precision and machine-like imo.

Plus the drummer lacks that legendary Bonham leadfoot ... although that could be my computer speakers.

I guess the point is that, the way I feel about Zeppelin, it's hard to pretend they're anything other than inimitable.
.

Yep, you're right about one thing: 'sloppy' can be a lot harder to copy than music played with precision or clean technique (at least it is for me, anyway.)

Led Zeppelin is a pretty difficult band to cover, for obvious reasons, and a hardcore fan can always find something to criticize in any tribute or cover band that makes the effort, but I give "Virtual Zeppelin" some major props for being well inside the ball park and for tackling such an ambitious labor of love.

bombay
08-02-2008, 08:30 PM
I liked some of The Who's songs - but never enough to actually buy one of their records.

The tremendous disgust I feel when I see these goons smashing their instruments on the stage pretty much ruins any positive feeling I might have about their music.


Didn't the Who stop breaking their instruments by 1966 or '67? Seems like that was over about the time they lost the blue jackets and white pants. Before any of their serious contributions to the genre, in other words.

Who's Next is one of the top 5 albums ever released, imo. So I bought that one. 'Course, I bought everything they released from Live At Leeds through Quadrophenia.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-03-2008, 09:06 AM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3aXSyVPGbwg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3aXSyVPGbwg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Hogan11
08-03-2008, 09:14 AM
Didn't the Who stop breaking their instruments by 1966 or '67? Seems like that was over about the time they lost the blue jackets and white pants. Before any of their serious contributions to the genre, in other words.

Who's Next is one of the top 5 albums ever released, imo. So I bought that one. 'Course, I bought everything they released from Live At Leeds through Quadrophenia.

The Who stopped the overall destruction in 1968 due to huge cost overruns (it cost them more $$$ then they had)....it was done out of frustration of having a bad night and overall frustration with the audience anyways. Townsend tried to pass it all off as some sort of "pop art" for years, but no one really ever bought it.

So yeah, roughly by 1968, it was largely all over....save for the occasional guitar, cymbal or floor tom here and there.

I'm largely indifferent to the smashing of instruments...there were many times when I was playing where I wanted to pull a Sid Vicious, unstrap my bass and swing it at the aholes head in the crowd that was taunting me, so I understand the frustration that would lead up to that. It was never something that would turn me off from a band though because, afterall, it's the music that counts when all is said and done...not the stage show.

Hogan11
08-03-2008, 09:43 AM
These are The Who albums I have:

Sing My Generation
Happy Jack
Sell Out
Magic Bus
Live At Leeds
Who's Next
Quadrophenia
Odds & Sods
By Numbers
The Kids Are Alright
Face Dances (vinyl)
Who's Missing
Two's Missing
Thirty Years Of Maximum R&B [Box set]
Live At The Isle Of Wight Festival 1970
BBC Sessions

I never cared for Tommy believe it or not and Who Are You's best moments are covered in the box set. As for the post Moon era Who....Face Dances was one of the very first promos I ever got so I hung onto it, the rest I delt if I got them at all.

Bronx33
08-03-2008, 01:59 PM
These are The Who albums I have:

Sing My Generation
Happy Jack
Sell Out
Magic Bus
Live At Leeds
Who's Next
Quadrophenia
Odds & Sods
By Numbers
The Kids Are Alright
Face Dances (vinyl)
Who's Missing
Two's Missing
Thirty Years Of Maximum R&B [Box set]
Live At The Isle Of Wight Festival 1970
BBC Sessions

I never cared for Tommy believe it or not and Who Are You's best moments are covered in the box set. As for the post Moon era Who....Face Dances was one of the very first promos I ever got so I hung onto it, the rest I delt if I got them at all.


I also have all of the who in vinyl and cd and i also agree about tommy Ann-Margret and Oliver Reed can't sing to save their lives but i do like a few of the songs sung by the who themselves, i have been a who fan since i was pretty young i was influenced by my older brother on alot of the 70s bands like loggins and messina, neil diamond ect.. He always had a huge stereo system and when he got something new i would get his old stuff. The 70s is far my favorite era for music.

Los Broncos
08-03-2008, 02:06 PM
Little Walter

Magic Sam

Slightly Stoopid

Harmonica Jones - Two years of torture

epicSocialism4tw
08-03-2008, 03:18 PM
Zeppelin v. the Who?

To see which had a wider influence, all one has to do is spend a couple of hours in a guitar shop and count how many times you hear an amateur player hack through a riff. You'll hear alot of Zeppelin. You wont hear any Who.

Zeppelin's quartet set many of the standards for rock musicians that followed.

I think that this is the typical style vs. substance debate. Zeppelin consists of a much richer and satisfying substance while The Who brought the style of punk rock to the stage, which many find popular as a social statement.

Musically, Zep puts the Who under the table. Dancin' Days, Kashmir, Whole Lotta Love, Immigrant Song, Dazed and Confused....many texturally different embodiments of raw blues rock swirled with a broad spectrum of other genres.

Zep is much more satisfying for the player.

The Who are probably more satisfying for the guy with buttons on his denim jacket and a seldom-used bottom end fender guitar in the closet.

bombay
08-03-2008, 03:52 PM
Somehow I've managed to find time to see, hear, and appreciate both of those bands.

Radical concept, I know.

Hogan11
08-03-2008, 05:21 PM
I also have all of the who in vinyl and cd and i also agree about tommy Ann-Margret and Oliver Reed can't sing to save their lives but i do like a few of the songs sung by the who themselves, i have been a who fan since i was pretty young i was influenced by my older brother on alot of the 70s bands like loggins and messina, neil diamond ect.. He always had a huge stereo system and when he got something new i would get his old stuff. The 70s is far my favorite era for music.

In regards to Tommy..I never thought it was all that in the first place, plus it was poorly produced...remixes have undone some of that since. Nowadays, I see no reason to own it other than being the completist. Much of the highlights are contained on the box set, Live At Leeds and Live At The Isle Of Wight Festival 1970 anyways...the live albums especially bring that material to life much more than the studio album ever could.

Hogan11
08-03-2008, 05:25 PM
Magic Sam

We're talking West Side Soul here, correct? Nobody talks about just how great that album is. It's one of my all time faves.

Los Broncos
08-03-2008, 05:35 PM
We're talking West Side Soul here, correct? Nobody talks about just how great that album is. It's one of my all time faves.

Yes we are, great album.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-03-2008, 06:48 PM
The Who stopped the overall destruction in 1968 due to huge cost overruns (it cost them more $$$ then they had)....it was done out of frustration of having a bad night and overall frustration with the audience anyways. Townsend tried to pass it all off as some sort of "pop art" for years, but no one really ever bought it.

So yeah, roughly by 1968, it was largely all over....save for the occasional guitar, cymbal or floor tom here and there.

I'm largely indifferent to the smashing of instruments...there were many times when I was playing where I wanted to pull a Sid Vicious, unstrap my bass and swing it at the aholes head in the crowd that was taunting me, so I understand the frustration that would lead up to that. It was never something that would turn me off from a band though because, afterall, it's the music that counts when all is said and done...not the stage show.

That's one of the things I appreciated about Led Zeppelin: They were able to keep an audience enthralled for three hours with no theatrics, no histrionics, no props, no smashing of instruments, and no gimmicks whatsoever.

Bronx33
08-03-2008, 09:50 PM
In regards to Tommy..I never thought it was all that in the first place, plus it was poorly produced...remixes have undone some of that since. Nowadays, I see no reason to own it other than being the completist. Much of the highlights are contained on the box set, Live At Leeds and Live At The Isle Of Wight Festival 1970 anyways...the live albums especially bring that material to life much more than the studio album ever could.


FYI: Word is they are releasing some new who concerts on DVD from the 70s my brother will let me know,

Hogan11
08-04-2008, 07:58 AM
That's one of the things I appreciated about Led Zeppelin: They were able to keep an audience enthralled for three hours with no theatrics, no histrionics, no props, no smashing of instruments, and no gimmicks whatsoever.

And if The Song Remains The Same is any indication at all, they could put the nonbelivers to sleep as well. Outside of ELP's Welcome Back My Friends To The Show That Never Ends, there has never been a more apt title for a band's album, much less a film project.

Hogan11
08-04-2008, 08:03 AM
FYI: Word is they are releasing some new who concerts on DVD from the 70s my brother will let me know,

I haven't heard this before....great news if it's true. I hope they'd release them on CD as well. I'd be very interested in anything from the 60's thru 1975....if they are anything like Live At The Isle Of Wight Festival 1970 I'll scoop them up in a heartbeat.

Hogan11
08-04-2008, 08:14 AM
Yes we are, great album.

Oh Man, it's beyond great IMHO....it damn near houses everything else in the genre. It deserves far more accalim that it gets, even saying it's a bona fide classic seems to do it disservice. No blues fan should be without a copy of it.

Los Broncos
08-04-2008, 09:37 AM
Oh Man, it's beyond great IMHO....it damn near houses everything else in the genre. It deserves far more accalim that it gets, even saying it's a bona fide classic seems to do it disservice. No blues fan should be without a copy of it.

Agreed, I have my copy and listen all the time.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-04-2008, 05:15 PM
And if The Song Remains The Same is any indication at all...

It's not.

Not a good night, but the only footage they had at the time (this was before the video age.) Nevertheless, the film was still selling out showings in theaters years after its release.

Bronx33
08-04-2008, 07:05 PM
I haven't heard this before....great news if it's true. I hope they'd release them on CD as well. I'd be very interested in anything from the 60's thru 1975....if they are anything like Live At The Isle Of Wight Festival 1970 I'll scoop them up in a heartbeat.


Do you have these? Amazing Journey: The Story of the Who chronicles the band's history through interviews with Pete Townshend and Roger Daltrey as well as rare concert footage.

The second Amazing Journey: Six Quick Ones

bombay
08-04-2008, 07:58 PM
A guy gave me a disc today of a Humble Pie recording from Winterland, 5/6/73. He said it'a a boot, but it's a soundboard and when I googled H.P and the date, a British Import called Up Your Sleeve came up, but I can't find a date for that show. Anyone know if they are one and the same?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-04-2008, 10:48 PM
A guy gave me a disc today of a Humble Pie recording from Winterland, 5/6/73. He said it'a a boot, but it's a soundboard and when I googled H.P and the date, a British Import called Up Your Sleeve came up, but I can't find a date for that show. Anyone know if they are one and the same?

Get it here:

http://concerts.wolfgangsvault.com/dt/humble-pie-concert/20052603-2981.html

Hogan11
08-04-2008, 11:17 PM
It's not.

Not a good night, but the only footage they had at the time (this was before the video age.)

Could've fooled me...IMO it's no better or worse than How The West Was Won. So I guess the whole live bit must be in the eyes of the believer because seeing any of that footage now makes me wanna drop the kids off at the pool.

Nevertheless, the film was still selling out showings in theaters years after its release.

So did The Rocky Horror Picture Show, so what does that prove?

Hogan11
08-04-2008, 11:23 PM
Do you have these? Amazing Journey: The Story of the Who chronicles the band's history through interviews with Pete Townshend and Roger Daltrey as well as rare concert footage.

The second Amazing Journey: Six Quick Ones

They've been running those on VH1 the last couple of weeks...I watched them a couple of times but really didn't see or hear too much that I haven't before so I doubt I'm going to get them on DVD or anything.

I'm very interested in those concert releases though, especially if they're uncut and spared of commentary. The cd's especially I'd love to have...please keep me informed.

Hogan11
08-04-2008, 11:30 PM
Agreed, I have my copy and listen all the time.

Lynch, ever check out Black Magic? The perfect bookend to West Side Soul, urban blues never got better than that.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-04-2008, 11:36 PM
Could've fooled me...IMO it's no better or worse than How The West Was Won. So I guess the whole live bit must be in the eyes of the believer because seeing any of that footage now makes me wanna drop the kids off at the pool.

At least they didn't resort to smashing their instruments when they were having a bad night. ;)

If you recall, I criticized Zeppelin's live show when we were discussing The Stones earlier. LZ's live show was very hit-or-miss - especially as the monkey on Page's back grew into an 800 pound gorilla. Some shows were atrocious, some were mediocre at best (like "The Song Remains the Same") and some were brilliant.

Anyway, my point was that Led Zeppelin didn't need anything more than their music to keep their fans enthralled for three hours (i.e., no bullsh*t theatrics, smashing of guitars, demolition of drum kits, etc.)

So did The Rocky Horror Picture Show, so what does that prove?

It proves that a lot of people like the film even if you're not one of them. ;)

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-04-2008, 11:42 PM
The Who are probably more satisfying for the guy with buttons on his denim jacket and a seldom-used bottom end fender guitar in the closet.

LOL

Yep - it's really your lowest common denominator, low-brow, unrefined, riff-bashing, proto-punk, cowboy chord-playing caveman stuff, isn't it?

Hogan11
08-05-2008, 12:05 AM
At least they didn't resort to smashing their instruments when they were having a bad night. ;)

Maybe they should've, would've been a helluva lot more interesting.

If you recall, I criticized Zeppelin's live show when we were discussing The Stones earlier. LZ's live show was very hit-or-miss - especially as the monkey on Page's back grew into an 800 pound gorilla. Some shows were atrocious, some were mediocre at best (like "The Song Remains the Same") and some were brilliant.

Anyway, my point was that Led Zeppelin didn't need anything more than their music to keep their fans enthralled for three hours (i.e., no bullsh*t theatrics, smashing of guitars, demolition of drum kits, etc.);)

It's fairly easy to keep fans enthralled for three hours during a bad show when they're probably as zonked as Page was or more....hell, the Dead made a multi-decade career out of doing just that. As for theatrics, I was never a fan of them either (hell, I detest even a light show) but I do give credit to them pulling the plug on it when it became part of the act instead of a natural reaction.

It proves that a lot of people like the film even if you're not one of them. ;)

It proves there's a sucker born every minute, if it proves anything at all....given the performance in that film and all that fantasy crap sprinkled amongst it, they should show it for free.

Hogan11
08-05-2008, 12:06 AM
LOL

Yep - it's really your lowest common denominator, low-brow, unrefined, riff-bashing, proto-punk, cowboy chord-playing caveman stuff, isn't it?

Well, if you guys embody the alternative....no offense, but I'll look for that denim jacket everytime.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-05-2008, 04:51 AM
Maybe they should've, would've been a helluva lot more interesting.

Interesting to whom?

Answer: Who fans who don't particularly care for Led Zeppelin.

IMO, smashing an instrument is low-rent and just plain disrespectful - that's someone's craft work and creation you're destroying.


It's fairly easy to keep fans enthralled for three hours during a bad show when they're probably as zonked as Page was or more....hell, the Dead made a multi-decade career out of doing just that.

So fans of The Who were all tee-totalers?

If not, then I guess The Who needed more than just a 'zonked' audience to keep the fans enthralled on a bad night - they needed to bust up some guitars and drum kits to boot.


It proves there's a sucker born every minute, if it proves anything at all....

So let me get this straight: Anyone who happened to enjoy a band or a film you dislike is a "sucker?"


given the performance in that film and all that fantasy crap sprinkled amongst it, they should show it for free.

A lot of people (myself included) enjoyed the fantasy sequences - I get it that you were not one of them.

As quiet as it's kept, a lot of people also enjoyed Led Zeppelin's music in spite of a lot of really high-profile rock critics who said the same things (throughout most of the 70s) you are saying here.

Which brings me back to my opinion of music critics.... ;)

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-05-2008, 04:57 AM
It proves there's a sucker born every minute, if it proves anything at all....

One more thing:

The above is always a circular argument insofar as you're talking about a band you don't particularly enjoy right from the outset.

Odds are when you're talking about your absolute favorite bands you're a lot more forgiving when it comes to sloppy or sub-par performances (you might even reference boots of some of these less-than-perfect shows as "for hardcore fans only.")

Hogan11
08-05-2008, 09:37 AM
Interesting to whom?

Answer: Who fans who don't particularly care for Led Zeppelin.

IMO, smashing an instrument is low-rent and just plain disrespectful - that's someone's craft work and creation you're destroying.



So fans of The Who were all tee-totalers?

If not, then I guess The Who needed more than just a 'zonked' audience to keep the fans enthralled on a bad night - they needed to bust up some guitars and drum kits to boot.

I was speaking in general terms, not for "Who fans"....too bad you can't get past such a minor part of the band's career that you have to keep returning to it...but that's okay, I understand, it's all you have to go on.



So let me get this straight: Anyone who happened to enjoy a band or a film you dislike is a "sucker?"



A lot of people (myself included) enjoyed the fantasy sequences - I get it that you were not one of them.;)

You enjoyed that stuff? Wow...

As for the sucker term...anyone who was willing to fork over cash repeatedly for substandard product knowingly released by the band
is just that. I know I wouldn't do that for acts I really liked much less ones I was lukewarm to....fool one once, shame on you...fool one twice or more and the calling one a sucker is not only allowed but justified.


As quiet as it's kept, a lot of people also enjoyed Led Zeppelin's music in spite of a lot of really high-profile rock critics who said the same things (throughout most of the 70s) you are saying here.

Here we go with the "popularity equates to quality" thing yet again....sales don't measure everything, just look at the current charts if you need further proof of that.

Which brings me back to my opinion of music critics.... ;)

You know, I don't often slam session men.....but if they were really all that, Toto would've been the biggest and greatest band to ever form in the history of music. All chops and no creativity must make for a pretty faceless existance, but I suppose it's the best they can do when they can't think beyond scales....of course, this is all my opinion and purly subjective ;)

Hogan11
08-05-2008, 09:46 AM
One more thing:

The above is always a circular argument insofar as you're talking about a band you don't particularly enjoy right from the outset.

Odds are when you're talking about your absolute favorite bands you're a lot more forgiving when it comes to sloppy or sub-par performances (you might even reference boots of some of these less-than-perfect shows as "for hardcore fans only.")

I said it hundreds of times for both bands and football players....I am fair, believe it or not, in all of my judgements. When it comes to sub-par performances, I call them as I see them...it may not appear that way to you, but that's the truth. These shows may very well be for completists and "hardcore fans only", but I would never recommend them or try to spin them to be other than what they are and whether I happen to be a fan of the artist in question or not, would be irrelevant in my assessment.

Whether you choose to believe that or not, is totally up to you.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-05-2008, 11:44 AM
I was speaking in general terms, not for "Who fans"....too bad you can't get past such a minor part of the band's career that you have to keep returning to it...but that's okay, I understand, it's all you have to go on.

The smashing of the instruments thing is not a "minor" point to me - it's such a huge turn-off that I can't take anyone who does it seriously as a musician.

You enjoyed that stuff? Wow...

Yep.

And I would submit that just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean it sucks - it just means you don't enjoy it.

As for the sucker term...anyone who was willing to fork over cash repeatedly for substandard product knowingly released by the band is just that.

For many hardcore fans, seeing the film was the closest they would ever get to seeing LZ in concert. And hardcore fans fork over cash for less-than-perfect recordings of their favorite bands all the time insofar as those fans are willing to endure the imperfections to avail themselves of the good parts.

Here we go with the "popularity equates to quality" thing yet again....sales don't measure everything, just look at the current charts if you need further proof of that.

I wasn't arguing that popularity = quality - I was arguing (as usual) that "quality" is in the ear of the beholder.



You know, I don't often slam session men.....but if they were really all that, Toto would've been the biggest and greatest band to ever form in the history of music.

The fallacy in this argument is obvious when you apply it to jazz greats. "Greatest" seldom translates to "biggest" in the music business. In fact, it's usually safe to say that the more sophisticated, ambitious, and/or challenging the music, and the more talented and/or exceptional the musician, the smaller the audience or market (at least in the U.S. anyway.) And this doesn't even take into account all of those undiscovered musicians out there who are truly great by any standard but unknown to the general public.


All chops and no creativity must make for a pretty faceless existance...

Chops and creativity are not mutually exclusive. Anyone who says so is just repeating the same tired fallacy that if a musician is technically accomplished then everything he plays must lack soul or feeling.

In any event, if you're talking about Toto, anyone who knows anything about that band knows it was never about chops. The musicians in the group all have chops to spare, it's true, but Toto was always about songwriting, strong rhythms, grooves, melodies and hooks. None of their popular songs were shred-fests or displays of chops for their own sake.

but I suppose it's the best they can do when they can't think beyond scales....of course, this is all my opinion and purly subjective ;)

This opinion is not just subjective - it's so completely uninformed it's hard to know where to start when addressing it.

If the musicians in Toto are nothing but a bunch of soulless academics or studio hacks as you suggest, then why has just about every rock and pop artist on the face of the earth (including some of your favorites) hired the members of Toto to play on their records? Why have so many of the tracks Lukather, the Porcaro brothers, and David Paich cut gone on to become hits for those artists?

Rohirrim
08-05-2008, 01:03 PM
LOL

Yep - it's really your lowest common denominator, low-brow, unrefined, riff-bashing, proto-punk, cowboy chord-playing caveman stuff, isn't it?

Throwing in with the Drama Llama, eh? Speaking of low brow. Anyway, the Who smashed instruments a couple of times. Now, you'd think they did it every show. They didn't. I saw them at the Long Beach Auditorium. They didn't smash anything. Just put on a great show (ie. Pete wasn't so ****ed up that all he could do was turn his back on the crowd, lean against his amp and dribble out incomprehensible finger drills, as Page was known to do on occasion). Hendrix destroyed a few guitars too, as well as lighting a couple of Strats on fire. Ginger Baker once destroyed a kit on stage.

What Zep did instead was trash people. Bill Graham's famous quote about them is that Zep was the signal to him that it was time to get out of the business when they sent lawyers to talk to him instead of just picking up the phone themselves. Then, there were the infamous backstage and hotel room destructions:
Not all of the backstage stories are as amusing. Led Zeppelin emerges from the book as one of the groups whose power and wealth caused vast destruction both within the group, as well as among those unfortunate enough to be backstage when the group's entourage went on a rampage.
http://thrasherswheat.org/rns/graham.html

Rohirrim
08-05-2008, 01:10 PM
The smashing of the instruments thing is not a "minor" point to me - it's such a huge turn-off that I can't take anyone who does it seriously as a musician.


Oops. ;D

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:8JuVHgZo2xO5_M:http://www.geocities.com/rockymnway/PickPages/JimiFire.jpg

bombay
08-05-2008, 06:23 PM
The Times of London on a possible Lez Zeppelin tour:


http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article1170197.ece

Hogan11
08-05-2008, 07:08 PM
The smashing of the instruments thing is not a "minor" point to me - it's such a huge turn-off that I can't take anyone who does it seriously as a musician.



Yep.

And I would submit that just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean it sucks - it just means you don't enjoy it.



For many hardcore fans, seeing the film was the closest they would ever get to seeing LZ in concert. And hardcore fans fork over cash for less-than-perfect recordings of their favorite bands all the time insofar as those fans are willing to endure the imperfections to avail themselves of the good parts.



I wasn't arguing that popularity = quality - I was arguing (as usual) that "quality" is in the ear of the beholder.



The fallacy in this argument is obvious when you apply it to jazz greats. "Greatest" seldom translates to "biggest" in the music business. In fact, it's usually safe to say that the more sophisticated, ambitious, and/or challenging the music, and the more talented and/or exceptional the musician, the smaller the audience or market (at least in the U.S. anyway.) And this doesn't even take into account all of those undiscovered musicians out there who are truly great by any standard but unknown to the general public.



Chops and creativity are not mutually exclusive. Anyone who says so is just repeating the same tired fallacy that if a musician is technically accomplished then everything he plays must lack soul or feeling.

In any event, if you're talking about Toto, anyone who knows anything about that band knows it was never about chops. The musicians in the group all have chops to spare, it's true, but Toto was always about songwriting, strong rhythms, grooves, melodies and hooks. None of their popular songs were shred-fests or displays of chops for their own sake.



This opinion is not just subjective - it's so completely uninformed it's hard to know where to start when addressing it.

If the musicians in Toto are nothing but a bunch of soulless academics or studio hacks as you suggest, then why has just about every rock and pop artist on the face of the earth (including some of your favorites) hired the members of Toto to play on their records? Why have so many of the tracks Lukather, the Porcaro brothers, and David Paich cut gone on to become hits for those artists?

and on and on and on....The defense of Toto is hilarious to say the least, but even though Toto was slick, vacuous, AOR formula hack work...at least they tried to do something on their own. I'll give them credit for that at least.

You just keep on getting that system work. Try to spin it anyway you wish but at the end of the day, most session guys are just like stuntman, pornstars or the mercs employed by Blackwater. Hired guns and robots paid to play the material of other artists because they usually cannot come up with any themselves. Don't get me wrong, that's good work if you can get it, but it's far from being the most creative job in the world.

Hogan11
08-05-2008, 07:11 PM
Throwing in with the Drama Llama, eh? Speaking of low brow.

At least Llama is in a band that's trying to do something creative in music...I'll give him credit for that at least.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-05-2008, 08:14 PM
....The defense of Toto is hilarious to say the least..

What's "hilarious" is that you still seem to believe that personal tastes in music (or music you don't particularly care for) for need "defending" (as though your personal tastes or perceptions were some sort of objective "truths.")

You can't seem to wrap your brain around the notion that just because you don't like something, it doesn't mean it sucks - it just means you don't like it.

(And please don't tell me I'm trying to deny you the right to your opinion because you know that's BS.)


You just keep on getting that system work. Try to spin it anyway you wish but at the end of the day, most session guys are just like stuntman, pornstars or the mercs employed by Blackwater.

It's obvious you don't have clue one about session musicians or their careers. Your attempt to broad brush every musician who makes all or part of his living doing sessions as a "stunt man" or a "merc" is laughably naive insofar as you're referring to a pretty huge segment of the professional musical workforce (including classically-trained musicians who play with symphony orchestras, etc.) If you are trying to claim that all of these musicians are nothing more than uncreative automatons who just sit in chairs and read music all day long then you are about as uninformed as it gets. Furthermore, just because a musician earns his or her living doing sessions doesn't mean he or she is not involved in other aspects of the music business or other creative projects.


Hired guns and robots paid to play the material of other artists because they usually cannot come up with any themselves.

You have it ass-backwards here again. Session players are usually hired to play on record dates because the artists can't cut it themselves (or because the artist is looking for creative help/input from the session player.) You'd be surprised if you knew how many tracks on well-known or popular records featured session players who were called in because some "rock star" couldn't cut it in the studio. A lot of these poseur pop stars don't really play on their own records, arrange their own music, etc. - but I know who did. :wave:

As a matter of fact, it's ironic that you are slamming session players in general and the members of Toto in particular here when you just posted a Youtube video of "Talk To You Later" by the Tubes (one of The Tubes' biggest hits and one of your favorites, if I recall.)

Do you not realize that "Talk to You Later" is a Steve Lukather song? Ha!

Don't get me wrong, that's good work if you can get it, but it's far from being the most creative job in the world.

This is another completely clueless comment that could only come from someone who has never done session work on a professional level.

Session work can be some of the most creatively challenging work there is insofar as the musician is called upon (on a regular basis) to walk into a studio, listen to some tracks he's hearing for the first time, and come up with just the right sounds, parts, solos, or even complete arrangements right on the spot - often under pressure and with serious time constraints - and often when these tracks are make or break for an artist.

If you don't think that sort of thing requires a LOT of creativity then you are just plain naive.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-05-2008, 08:18 PM
At least Llama is in a band that's trying to do something creative in music...I'll give him credit for that at least.

Whereas you are little more than a bedroom player who is content to sit on the sidelines and criticize the works of others (from a musically uneducated and purely pop-cultural POV.)

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-05-2008, 08:31 PM
Throwing in with the Drama Llama, eh? Speaking of low brow.

???

I'm "throwing in" with him just because I happen to agree with him on this one issue?


Hendrix destroyed a few guitars too, as well as lighting a couple of Strats on fire. Ginger Baker once destroyed a kit on stage.

Hendrix was a drug-addled, misogynist a$$hole who beat the crap out of women (and who was vastly overrated as a guitarist, IMO.) The same thing I said about The Who applies to Hendrix and Baker in my world.

What Zep did instead was trash people. Bill Graham's famous quote about them is that Zep was the signal to him that it was time to get out of the business when they sent lawyers to talk to him instead of just picking up the phone themselves. Then, there were the infamous backstage and hotel room destructions:
Not all of the backstage stories are as amusing. Led Zeppelin emerges from the book as one of the groups whose power and wealth caused vast destruction both within the group, as well as among those unfortunate enough to be backstage when the group's entourage went on a rampage.
http://thrasherswheat.org/rns/graham.html

You could replace "Zep" with "The Who" (or just about any other major touring act of the 70s) in most of the foregoing paragraph and still have a true statement.

I don't condone any of this sh*t - it's stupid no matter who does it.

Rohirrim
08-05-2008, 09:43 PM
Hendrix was vastly overrated? Compared to whom?

TDmvp
08-05-2008, 11:14 PM
before i say this keep in mind i LOVE JIMMY ...

Hendrix changed the way people thought of guitar , visionary , trendsetter ...
BUT you could say overrated cause compared to most of the people who are considered guitar gods hendrix don't stack up . He was sloppy ... and not a great writer ...

I love Gilmour and Randy Rhoads to pick 2 and Hendrix is not as good as either of them ... Hell as far as cleanly picked , classic style , and speed , L.A. himself is every bit if not more the guitar player Jimmy was ... Jimmy just changed how things was thought of and done ...


Lets not confuse innovative with being really good ...

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-05-2008, 11:26 PM
Hendrix was vastly overrated? Compared to whom?

To claim that Hendrix is/was anything less than a minor deity is tantamount to blasphemy in some guitar circles, so I know I'm going to get flamed hard for this.

I would argue that Hendrix was overrated compared to Page, for one example. If you listen to Page's solos on that first Led Zeppelin album (which was released when Hendrix was still active) Page is playing Hendrix completely under the table on all levels musically.

Alvin Lee was another guitarist who handed Hendrix his ass at Woodstock.

Jeff Beck was another guy who could give Jimi a serious run for his money.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying I don't like any of Hendrix's music or that I don't appreciate his importance in the larger scheme of the evolution of rock guitar - I'm just saying that there were guys who were already passing him by in his lifetime.

epicSocialism4tw
08-05-2008, 11:28 PM
You know, its funny.

Why is it that people can be so opinionated about something relatively subjective that they bicker and fight about it like children?

The Who were wonderful. Zeppelin was a landmark.

There's no reason to toss your lot in with others (apparently the internet is for forming cliques for the lonely) to bicker one way or the other. Those bands' music stand on their own merits.

epicSocialism4tw
08-05-2008, 11:31 PM
To claim that Hendrix is/was anything less than a minor deity is tantamount to blasphemy in some guitar circles, so I know I'm going to get flamed hard for this.

I would argue that Hendrix was overrated compared to Page, for one example. If you listen to Page's solos on that first Led Zeppelin album (which was released when Hendrix was still active) Page is playing Hendrix completely under the table on all levels musically.

Alvin Lee was another guitarist who handed Hendrix his ass at Woodstock.

Jeff Beck was another guy who could give Jimi a serious run for his money.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying I don't like any of Hendrix's music or that I don't appreciate his importance in the larger scheme of the evolution of rock guitar - I'm just saying that there were guys who were already passing him by in his lifetime.

You know, Hendrix himself claimed inferiority to several others including Phil Keaggy who he called the best guitar player in the world.

Chet Atkins was of a different genre, but I would take Chet's work over Jimmys.

I think that Hendrix gets his status for a couple of reasons, both of which have little to do with his performance. That doesnt negate that he was an excellent player though.

TDmvp
08-05-2008, 11:33 PM
im not saying he is average or anything btw ... he is great ... but i can name 50 guys easy i think play better than Jimmy Hendrix ... maybe 100 if i wrote it down ..


edit ...
but everything is a opinion ...

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-05-2008, 11:38 PM
Hendrix changed the way people thought of guitar , visionary , trendsetter ...
BUT you could say overrated cause compared to most of the people who are considered guitar gods hendrix don't stack up . He was sloppy ... and not a great writer ...


Page and Hendrix had that sloppiness and inconsistent performance thing in common - just like the drug abuse thing (coincidence?)

However, I give the edge to Page for being more versatile, more creative/visionary, more adept at realizing his ideas in the recording studio, and superior as a guitarist on a technical level (although you could arguably give Hendrix the edge when it comes to innovation.)

epicSocialism4tw
08-05-2008, 11:43 PM
LOL

Yep - it's really your lowest common denominator, low-brow, unrefined, riff-bashing, proto-punk, cowboy chord-playing caveman stuff, isn't it?

Well, its kind of frustrating if youre a guy who has loaded up the van and made the gigs for years having honed your craft to a place that is reserved for only the best of the field. Unfortunately, the music industry isnt one that values skill and artisanship as much as it does style.

When you spend years working on the skill aspect, the style becomes unimportant.

Usually, generations are defined by players who are midlevel players. Todays guitar heroes are maybe even less than that.

It is regular to see great players in front of small crowds and small players in front of great crowds.

I saw Doyle Dykes play in front of 10 people. I took my little brother to see Creed (bleh) and they packed 20,000.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-05-2008, 11:44 PM
You know, its funny.

Why is it that people can be so opinionated about something relatively subjective that they bicker and fight about it like children?

The Who were wonderful. Zeppelin was a landmark.

There's no reason to toss your lot in with others (apparently the internet is for forming cliques for the lonely) to bicker one way or the other. Those bands' music stand on their own merits.

I don't think there's anything unhealthy or wrong with having a difference of opinion where matters of aesthetics are concerned.

It's when people start thinking their opinions are more than subjective and try to be taste makers or fashion police that the trouble starts, IMO.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-05-2008, 11:49 PM
Well, its kind of frustrating if youre a guy who has loaded up the van and made the gigs for years having honed your craft to a place that is reserved for only the best of the field. Unfortunately, the music industry isnt one that values skill and artisanship as much as it does style.

When you spend years working on the skill aspect, the style becomes unimportant.

Usually, generations are defined by players who are midlevel players. Todays guitar heroes are maybe even less than that.

It is regular to see great players in front of small crowds and small players in front of great crowds.

I saw Doyle Dykes play in front of 10 people. I took my little brother to see Creed (bleh) and they packed 20,000.

Ding ding ding! :yep:

People who couldn't play a C major scale if you put a gun to their heads play to stadiums while people like Allan Holdsworth play to a room full of 50 G.I.T. students.

Some things never change.

TDmvp
08-05-2008, 11:54 PM
Ding ding ding! :yep:

People who couldn't play a C major scale if you put a gun to their heads play to stadiums while people like Allan Holdsworth play to a room full of 50 G.I.T. students.

Some things never change.



Allan Whosworth ??? :) "inside joke with LA" ... yes i know who he is


heheh

epicSocialism4tw
08-05-2008, 11:55 PM
Ding ding ding! :yep:

People who couldn't play a C major scale if you put a gun to their heads play to stadiums while people like Allan Holdsworth play to a room full of 50 G.I.T. students.

Some things never change.


Just as great poets, great players become obsessed with metrics and craftwork. Just as great poets, great players become less interested in meeting the demands of their generation of popular culture.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-06-2008, 12:11 AM
Just as great poets, great players become obsessed with metrics and craftwork. Just as great poets, great players become less interested in meeting the demands of their generation of popular culture.

I think you become obsessed with growth if you're a real artist. You're never content to repeat yourself or to keep mining the same familiar, safe, comfortable niches. You're always looking for more information, more colors to add to your palette, more words and phrases to add to your vocabulary, more undiscovered country...

The trouble with this mindset, obviously, is that you often arouse the enmity of the traditionalists and the purists and the taste makers who would codify and classify everything.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-06-2008, 12:15 AM
Allan Whosworth ??? :) "inside joke with LA" ... yes i know who he is


heheh

:laugh:

Yep - you know who he is because you're a musician and a vocalist who works with guitar players.

Were that not that case, chances are you would have never heard of him, I'd wager.

TDmvp
08-06-2008, 12:18 AM
:laugh:

Yep - you know who he is because you're a musician and a vocalist who works with guitar players.

Were that not that case, chances are you would have never heard of him, I'd wager.

absolutely ... and it is a crime / shame more don't know who he is ...

Hogan11
08-06-2008, 12:29 AM
[QUOTE]As a matter of fact, it's ironic that you are slamming session players in general and the members of Toto in particular here when you just posted a Youtube video of "Talk To You Later" by the Tubes (one of The Tubes' biggest hits and one of your favorites, if I recall.)

Do you not realize that "Talk to You Later" is a Steve Lukather song? Ha! .

So? The Tubes performed it (prodded by Capitol records to use outside writers as a condition to them signing with them, since they didn't sniff the charts on A&M) Toto didn't..that's the difference. If Lukather or Toto has a version of it somewhere, I haven't heard it, but would like to as it probably would be better than their usual output was...then again, maybe not.

As for the rest of your blather, wake me when you're done.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-06-2008, 12:31 AM
Allan Whosworth ??? :) "inside joke with LA" ... yes i know who he is

heheh

Here's a good one for you:

A couple months ago I spoke to Carl Verheyen, who is a first-call studio guitarist in L.A. Carl mentioned that he was working on the new Hannah Montana record. I sort of chuckled and didn't think much of it at the time - just another "money gig," right? Anyway, a few days later, I took Carl's new concert DVD "Rumor Mill" over to a friend's house to watch with some buddies. Upon hearing Carl's guitar playing, my friend's ten year-old daughter (an aspiring vocalist who thinks Hannah Montana walks on water) remarked "this guy sucks!"

Surprised, I asked her "what would you say if I told you you this guy played most of the guitars on Hannah Montana's new record?"

She was silent for the longest time (you could see the gears turning) and then she exclaimed "cool! He ROCKS!"

That concludes lesson one/music business 101. ;)

Hogan11
08-06-2008, 12:32 AM
Whereas you are little more than a bedroom player who is content to sit on the sidelines and criticize the works of others (from a musically uneducated and purely pop-cultural POV.)

Yeah, whatever you say there merc.

I don't think there's anything unhealthy or wrong with having a difference of opinion where matters of aesthetics are concerned.

It's when people start thinking their opinions are more than subjective and try to be taste makers or fashion police that the trouble starts, IMO.

You should know, you do it all the time and don't even realize it.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-06-2008, 12:38 AM
So? The Tubes performed it (prodded by Capitol records to use outside writers as a condition to them signing with them, since they didn't sniff the charts on A&M) Toto didn't..that's the difference. If Lukather or Toto has a version of it somewhere, I haven't heard it, but would like to as it probably would be better than their usual output was...then again, maybe not.

Hello? ???

Lukather wrote the tune and played all the guitars on it!

BTW, this wouldn't be the first time Lukather has collaborated with Fee Waybill (who co-wrote some Toto tunes.)

Anyway, I was just wondering how your claims about studio musicians in general and Toto in particular jibed with your professed love for The Tubes, et al.

I guess now I know. :D

As for the rest of your blather, wake me when you're done.

Nah, go ahead and sleep through music class - it's a prerequisite for being a rock critic. :D

Hogan11
08-06-2008, 12:42 AM
absolutely ... and it is a crime / shame more don't know who he is ...

I know of him primarily by UK (which wasn't bad) and Soft Machine (which I didn't care for after Third), but that's about it.

Hogan11
08-06-2008, 12:47 AM
Hello? ???

Lukather wrote the tune and played all the guitars on it!

BTW, this wouldn't be the first time Lukather has collaborated with Fee Waybill (who co-wrote some Toto tunes.)

Anyway, I was just wondering how your claims about studio musicians in general and Toto in particular jibed with your professed love for The Tubes, et al.

I guess now I know. :D

Again so? I asked if he or Toto performed a version of it. As for the "jibing" I already explained that was more of Capitol's doing....besides I perfer the earlier Tubes anyways and lost interest with Outside Inside, so there ya go



Nah, go ahead and sleep through music class - it's a prerequisite for being a rock critic. :D

Music class huh? and you call me a snob....::)

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-06-2008, 12:47 AM
You should know, you do it all the time and don't even realize it.

That's bullsh*t.

For the most part, when it comes to music I don't like, (and there is always a LOT of music I don't like on this thread) I adopt the "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" policy.

All you have to do is read this thread from the top to confirm this.

I have always maintained that "in matters of taste, there can be no dispute," and I certainly have never pretended my personal musical perceptions, opinions, or tastes were objective "truths" as you do.

TDmvp
08-06-2008, 12:48 AM
I know of him primarily by UK (which wasn't bad) and Soft Machine (which I didn't care for after Third), but that's about it.



yea i know who he is through it being pushed on me by guitar players ... I aint a big fan or anything but i can judge talent pretty well and dude is bad@$$...
I like a lot of different stuff if i listed my ipod list i would get laughed at LOL ...

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-06-2008, 12:52 AM
Again so? I asked if he or Toto performed a version of it. As for the "jibing" I already explained that was more of Capitol's doing....besides I perfer the earlier Tubes anyways and lost interest with Outside Inside, so there ya go

You just posted a Youtube video of the song (which you cited as a personal favorite.)

You then went on the attack against studio musicians in general and Toto in particular, broad brushing them all as soulless, uncreative robots who are only capable of playing others' music or what they are told to play.

I then pointed out that Steve Lukather (guitarist from Toto/studio legend) wrote and played the guitars on the tune you just cited as a favorite.

You don't see any irony here? ???


Music class huh? and you call me a snob....::)

Pointing out your contradictions isn't snobbery.

Hogan11
08-06-2008, 12:52 AM
That's bullsh*t.

For the most part, when it comes to music I don't like, (and there is always a LOT of music I don't like on this thread) I adopt the "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" policy.

All you have to do is read this thread from the top to confirm this.

I have always maintained that "in matters of taste, there can be no dispute," and I certainly have never pretended my personal musical perceptions, opinions, or tastes were objective "truths" as you do.

Yeah sure, you just dismiss those you don't agree with as "taste makers", "traditionalists", "purists", "snobs", "fashion police", "musically uneducated", "Bedroom player", "pop-cultural" and on and on and on......

Hogan11
08-06-2008, 12:56 AM
yea i know who he is through it being pushed on me by guitar players ... I aint a big fan or anything but i can judge talent pretty well and dude is bad@$$...
I like a lot of different stuff if i listed my ipod list i would get laughed at LOL ...

I stumbled into UK by following John Wetton over from King Crimson. I thought it was a pretty cool outfit, much better than Asia that he left it for. However, I was never a fan of E. Jobson's violin.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-06-2008, 01:01 AM
Yeah sure, you just dismiss those you don't agree with as "taste makers", "traditionalists", "purists", "snobs", "fashion police", "musically uneducated", "Bedroom player", "pop-cultural" and on and on and on......

I don't dismiss you because you don't agree with me or because you don't share my tastes in music - (that's a straw man argument if I ever heard one) I dismiss you because you are a musical snob who seems to see himself as some sort of musical taste maker or fashion policeman. I dismiss you because it's abundantly clear that, while you know a lot about pop culture and music trivia, you (like most critics) know very little about music. (Case in point: your statement that the musicians in Toto can't "see beyond scales" or whatever that inane comment was.)

Hogan11
08-06-2008, 01:07 AM
You just posted a Youtube video of the song (which you cited as a personal favorite.)

You then went on the attack against studio musicians in general and Toto in particular, broad brushing them all as soulless, uncreative robots who are only capable of playing others' music or what they are told to play.

I then pointed out that Steve Lukather (guitarist from Toto/studio legend) wrote and played the guitars on the tune you just cited as a favorite.

You don't see any irony here? ???

You're twisting things a bit here, but that's typical of you. If you go back and read the post, I said Toto tried to do something creative (i.e. like recording artists) by writing and performing their own material. I didn't find that stuff to be all that great to put it mildly (although it scored big on the charts) but they at least tried. The only other thing I said was that if session work was the scale of measurement, Toto would rule the world. In the rest of that paragraph I was not alluding to Toto, but you take it any way you want to (you will anyways).

Pointing out your contradictions isn't snobbery.

Pointing out my supposed contradictions? Meh..okay, let's say it's arrogance then.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-06-2008, 01:12 AM
You're twisting things a bit here, but that's typical of you. If you go back and read the post, I said Toto tried to do something creative (i.e. like recording artists) by writing and performing their own material. I didn't find that stuff to be all that great to put it mildly (although it scored big on the charts) but they at least tried. The only other thing I said was that if session work was the scale of measurement, Toto would rule the world. In the rest of that paragraph I was not alluding to Toto, but you take it any way you want to (you will anyways).

That's a selective reading of your actual post.

Are you trying to deny that you broad brushed Toto and studio musicians in general as a bunch of non-creative drones?

Do I need to go back and find that part of your post so I can quote you?

Hogan11
08-06-2008, 01:16 AM
I don't dismiss you because you don't agree with me or because you don't share my tastes in music - (that's a straw man argument if I ever heard one) I dismiss you because you are a musical snob who seems to see himself as some sort of musical taste maker or fashion policeman. I dismiss you because it's abundantly clear that, while you know a lot about pop culture and music trivia, you (like most critics) know very little about music. (Case in point: your statement that the musicians in Toto can't "see beyond scales" or whatever that inane comment was.)

Yeah that's it...I see myself as a tastemaker and fashion policeman :rofl:

You're supposed case in point I addressed already.

and if you've "dismissed" me already, then why do you insist on continuing on with this spiel of yours?

Hogan11
08-06-2008, 04:42 AM
The jig is up and I'm outing him....Ladies and Gents, he's really John Hiatt
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/d5begHSoQ1s&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/d5begHSoQ1s&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
ROFL!

Rohirrim
08-06-2008, 08:58 AM
You know, its funny.

Why is it that people can be so opinionated about something relatively subjective that they bicker and fight about it like children?

The Who were wonderful. Zeppelin was a landmark.

There's no reason to toss your lot in with others (apparently the internet is for forming cliques for the lonely) to bicker one way or the other. Those bands' music stand on their own merits.

I'm agreeing with the LLama. Something is wrong here...

Rohirrim
08-06-2008, 09:14 AM
To claim that Hendrix is/was anything less than a minor deity is tantamount to blasphemy in some guitar circles, so I know I'm going to get flamed hard for this.

I would argue that Hendrix was overrated compared to Page, for one example. If you listen to Page's solos on that first Led Zeppelin album (which was released when Hendrix was still active) Page is playing Hendrix completely under the table on all levels musically.

Alvin Lee was another guitarist who handed Hendrix his ass at Woodstock.

Jeff Beck was another guy who could give Jimi a serious run for his money.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying I don't like any of Hendrix's music or that I don't appreciate his importance in the larger scheme of the evolution of rock guitar - I'm just saying that there were guys who were already passing him by in his lifetime.


I'm not going to flame you for it, but I disagree. Of course, it's all subjective, but IMO musicians have to have something else besides technical proficiency to reach the level of (for want of a better word) master. Let's call it "voice." Alvin Lee was super fast but that was his entire schtick. Everbody watched him and went, "Gee." Small voice. They call Clapton "Slow Hand" but his "voice" has been huge over the last four decades. Hell, just listen to "Have You Heard" on the Bluesbreakers album when Eric was about 18. I love Jeff Beck's playing. He's a technical powerhouse. But his "voice" pales next to Clapton's (IMHO).

When you talk about Hendrix, you talk about a guy with a huge voice, a voice that pretty much redirected the music of his time. Even Clapton says this. I tried to explain this to a young guy at a Guitar Center once who was making the argument that Hendrix was not that big a deal (ostensibly because this kid had learned some of his licks). I realized I couldn't tell him anything, and the reason was because Hendrix invented whole "sounds" that didn't exist before he came along. Of course, they've been beaten into the ground since then by numerous folks (Trower, Vaughn, etc.) so it's impossible to get that sense of hearing it for the first time.

I remember the first Zep album coming out. We were blasting it. In fact, the drummer in our band used to blast it on his headphones while playing along (damn, he was good - had a real Keith Moon sound). I thought Page was great. I still enjoy those first few albums immensely. But do I think Page has the same stature of "voice" as Clapton and Hendrix? Nope.

Rohirrim
08-06-2008, 09:20 AM
Just as great poets, great players become obsessed with metrics and craftwork. Just as great poets, great players become less interested in meeting the demands of their generation of popular culture.

And then you have writers like James Joyce, whose wife asked him, "Why can't you write something people can understand?" ROFL!

Of course, then there are those artists on the highest plateau, like Shakespeare, who are understood across the broad spectrum of humanity but still soar with the Gods.

alkemical
08-06-2008, 09:33 AM
And then you have writers like James Joyce, whose wife asked him, "Why can't you write something people can understand?" ROFL!

Of course, then there are those artists on the highest plateau, like Shakespeare, who are understood across the broad spectrum of humanity but still soar with the Gods.

I can understand Joyce. IMO he's one of the greatest writers ever. What's funny, is that people had a hard time reading fin-again's wake ;)

But really - it was easy for me when i realized he wrote it in otomatopia. :)

BroncoInferno
08-06-2008, 09:41 AM
I can understand Joyce. IMO he's one of the greatest writers ever. What's funny, is that people had a hard time reading fin-again's wake ;)

But really - it was easy for me when i realized he wrote it in otomatopia. :)

His short story collection Dubliners is pretty accessible and (in my view) entertaining to boot. A Portrait of the Artist isn't terribly difficult either, though can get dull in spots (I've never been a big fan of the 'artist writing about his art' type of story--strikes me as masturbatory). Ulyssess and Finnegan's Wakeon the other hand...thanks, but no thanks. Maybe you can explain the latter to me one day. Scores of essayists have tried to interpret it over the decades, with minimal success.

alkemical
08-06-2008, 09:46 AM
His short story collection Dubliners is pretty accessible and (in my view) entertaining to boot. A Portrait of the Artist isn't terribly difficult either, though can get dull in spots (I've never been a big fan of the 'artist writing about his art' type of story--strikes me as masturbatory). Ulyssess and Finnegan's Wakeon the other hand...thanks, but no thanks. Maybe you can explain the latter to me one day. Scores of essayists have tried to interpret it over the decades, with minimal success.


It's a dream with in a dream. It's meant to be free-associative. It's not linear.

BroncoInferno
08-06-2008, 09:51 AM
It's a dream with in a dream. It's meant to be free-associative. It's not linear.

Yeah, I understand the with Uylssess he was trying to capture the sensation of a single day, while Wake explored the sensations of the dream world. And I understand that dream states can be incomprehensible or worked through a different form of language. It just isn't terribly fun reading, and the incomprehensiblity eventually collapses upon itself, in my view.

Rohirrim
08-06-2008, 09:53 AM
His short story collection Dubliners is pretty accessible and (in my view) entertaining to boot. A Portrait of the Artist isn't terribly difficult either, though can get dull in spots (I've never been a big fan of the 'artist writing about his art' type of story--strikes me as masturbatory). Ulyssess and Finnegan's Wakeon the other hand...thanks, but no thanks. Maybe you can explain the latter to me one day. Scores of essayists have tried to interpret it over the decades, with minimal success.

Joseph Campbell (of all people) wrote an excellent guide to Wake. But it's still a bitch to get through. Ulysses is one of my all time faves. I usually read it every two years or so.

alkemical
08-06-2008, 10:01 AM
Yeah, I understand the with Uylssess he was trying to capture the sensation of a single day, while Wake explored the sensations of the dream world. And I understand that dream states can be incomprehensible or worked through a different form of language. It just isn't terribly fun reading, and the incomprehensiblity eventually collapses upon itself, in my view.


It's full of puns, and you have to do some work to get some of it. I'm a huge fan linguistic devices and fun with words. (Even to music - it's one reason i like modest mouse).

I guess in some ways - FinnAgain's Wake kinda fits how i think. Maybe that will give faaaar more insight than you ever wanted to know about me. :) (also why drumming is easier for me - everything is a otomatopia - Flam, rattimacue, etc)

bombay
08-06-2008, 11:48 AM
I'm not going to flame you for it, but I disagree. Of course, it's all subjective, but IMO musicians have to have something else besides technical proficiency to reach the level of (for want of a better word) master. Let's call it "voice." Alvin Lee was super fast but that was his entire schtick. Everbody watched him and went, "Gee." Small voice. They call Clapton "Slow Hand" but his "voice" has been huge over the last four decades. Hell, just listen to "Have You Heard" on the Bluesbreakers album when Eric was about 18. I love Jeff Beck's playing. He's a technical powerhouse. But his "voice" pales next to Clapton's (IMHO).

When you talk about Hendrix, you talk about a guy with a huge voice, a voice that pretty much redirected the music of his time. Even Clapton says this. I tried to explain this to a young guy at a Guitar Center once who was making the argument that Hendrix was not that big a deal (ostensibly because this kid had learned some of his licks). I realized I couldn't tell him anything, and the reason was because Hendrix invented whole "sounds" that didn't exist before he came along. Of course, they've been beaten into the ground since then by numerous folks (Trower, Vaughn, etc.) so it's impossible to get that sense of hearing it for the first time.

I remember the first Zep album coming out. We were blasting it. In fact, the drummer in our band used to blast it on his headphones while playing along (damn, he was good - had a real Keith Moon sound). I thought Page was great. I still enjoy those first few albums immensely. But do I think Page has the same stature of "voice" as Clapton and Hendrix? Nope.


Rep. Damn well stated.

BroncoInferno
08-06-2008, 12:18 PM
Joseph Campbell (of all people) wrote an excellent guide to Wake. But it's still a b**** to get through. Ulysses is one of my all time faves. I usually read it every two years or so.

I made it through Ulysses once. I understand that the narrative innovation is genius, etc. but sticking in obscure references to mythology and random latin phrases is annoying and showing off to me (I feel the same way about a lot of T.S. Eliot). I think Faulkner took the narrative devices Joyce introduced and managed to utilize and expand upon them in ways that were both insightful and entertaining.

Rohirrim
08-06-2008, 01:11 PM
IMO, the great artists transcend the barriers of culture and time. There's a great scene in Amadeus where Salieri is trying to impress the young priest (who has come to give him the last rites) with one of his compositions. He sings a bit of it, but the priest doesn't recognize it. He tells the young priest how he was a great court composer and wrote some of the greatest operas of the day. He hums another bit and still, the priest doesn't recognize it. Then, Salieri gets a gleam in his eye. He hums another bit of music. The priest's eyes light up and he says, "Oh, I know that one" and finishes the melody for Salieri. Salieri sneers, "That's Mozart."

The great artists of music could not attain Mozart's perfection, and yet the simplest worker in the street loved his music. That's transcendence. That's when an artist has soared beyond the limits of his own time and the barriers of his culture.

alkemical
08-06-2008, 01:20 PM
IMO, the great artists transcend the barriers of culture and time. There's a great scene in Amadeus where Salieri is trying to impress the young priest (who has come to give him the last rites) with one of his compositions. He sings a bit of it, but the priest doesn't recognize it. He tells the young priest how he was a great court composer and wrote some of the greatest operas of the day. He hums another bit and still, the priest doesn't recognize it. Then, Salieri gets a gleam in his eye. He hums another bit of music. The priest's eyes light up and he says, "Oh, I know that one" and finishes the melody for Salieri. Salieri sneers, "That's Mozart."

The great artists of music could not attain Mozart's perfection, and yet the simplest worker in the street loved his music. That's transcendence. That's when an artist has soared beyond the limits of his own time and the barriers of his culture.


I agree with parts of that....

alkemical
08-06-2008, 01:23 PM
I made it through Ulysses once. I understand that the narrative innovation is genius, etc. but sticking in obscure references to mythology and random latin phrases is annoying and showing off to me (I feel the same way about a lot of T.S. Eliot). I think Faulkner took the narrative devices Joyce introduced and managed to utilize and expand upon them in ways that were both insightful and entertaining.

I don't find it showing off, as i do how Joyce used words. Just a different perspective... :)

BroncoBuff
08-06-2008, 01:31 PM
Roh I understand lots of what you're saying, I just disagree.

Hendrix' music has very little "voice" in my view. His guitar playing broke insane barriers and trod much new ground, no doubt. But part of the reason your lil' buddy at Guitar Center didn't think much of him was because his music has no voice. As you said, his wildly ahead of his time guitar playing techniques and styles have been co-opted by others .... who made their own music with those techniques.

Zeppelin on the other hand, their songs transcend all of that. Page's guitar playing - though excellent - is just a part of the much larger MUSIC, and music-altering music. Zep's MUSIC, as opposed to Hendrix' music and even Clapton's music, is transcendent, and I'm 100% sure your lil' buddy knows ALL the Zeppelin songs.

Rohirrim
08-06-2008, 01:37 PM
Roh I understand lots of what you're saying, I just disagree.

Hendrix' music has very little "voice" in my view. His guitar playing broke insane barriers and trod much new ground, no doubt. But part of the reason your lil' buddy at Guitar Center didn't think much of him was because his music has no voice. As you said, his wildly ahead of his time guitar playing techniques and styles have been co-opted by others .... who made their own music with those techniques.

Zeppelin on the other hand, their songs transcend all of that. Page's guitar playing - though excellent - is just a part of the much larger MUSIC, and music-altering music. Zep's MUSIC, as opposed to Hendrix' music and even Clapton's music, is transcendent, and I'm 100% sure your lil' buddy knows ALL the Zeppelin songs.

As you may already know, I don't argue with Gopis. ;D

BroncoBuff
08-06-2008, 01:39 PM
PERFECT ANALOGY (well, imperfect, but illustrative): The automatic transmission in your car is an INSANE invention that is more complicated than you'll probably ever know. The automatic transmision alone has more parts and is more complicated that the rest of the entire car combined. Most of us know that.

But does anybody talk about the inventor of the AT? Or about what kind of AT they have in their car? No, of course not. They might mention AT in passing, 3 or 4 speeds, but it's never the main topic. On the other hand, the MAKE and MODEL of cars are up for endless debate and discussion. Which are the most influential designs? How the Cadillac advanced the luxury automobile as a whole, or how the Chrysler Imperial as an answer to the Caddy was just a bit too ahead of its time, etc etc. They all USE the insanely revolutionary and complicate AT to make their cars better, but the closest you'll come to talking about the AT is saying how "smooth" the ride is.


Jimi Hendrix = automatic transmission
Led Zeppelin = Cadillac

:thanku:

bombay
08-06-2008, 02:11 PM
Hendrix' 'reach' has spanned the nearly 38 years since his death. Considering the short span from the time he burst upon the scene with Are You Experienced until he died, that's astonishing. If anyone here has read Clapton's autobiography, I think it expresses very well how he was viewed at the time - with a bit of awe - even by his peers.

BroncoBuff
08-06-2008, 02:17 PM
Jimi Hendrix = Insanely complex revolutionary PART.
Led Zeppelin = Insanely revolutionary VEHICLE makers that use Hendrix' PART.


Actually, Hendrix' personal packaging of his own revolutionary PART into a VEHICLE was largely forgettable. But Zeppelin's assembly of Hendrix' part, American bluesmen's parts, Beatles parts, Elvis parts, and their own parts yielded the most influential VEHICLE in rock/hard rock history.

Like most young people, Roh's lil' buddy is under-informed about history, so his appreciation of the PART - however indispensible that part may be - is far less than his appreciation of the VEHICLE.

Rohirrim
08-06-2008, 02:18 PM
Sorry. I have to give "most influential" award to the Beatles, by far. And when I say "by far" I mean on the cosmic level. Somewhere after that (maybe a solar system or two) comes the Stones, Hendrix, Clapton and then a comet's throw back (perhaps a couple of more star systems) comes Zep.

BroncoInferno
08-06-2008, 02:20 PM
Buff--I think you're mistaken in the assumption that young people don't appreciate Hendrix. He still hauls in a lot of fans. I also think his vehicle is superior to Zeppelin's repetitiveness and often inane lyrics.

BroncoBuff
08-06-2008, 02:26 PM
Hendrix' 'reach' has spanned the nearly 38 years since his death.
I'm not so sure I agree with this. In fact, I don't. Roh's little buddy kinda proves his reach is gone.


Considering the short span from the time he burst upon the scene with Are You Experienced until he died, that's astonishing. If anyone here has read Clapton's autobiography, I think it expresses very well how he was viewed at the time - with a bit of awe - even by his peers.
Well, the same can apply to the inventor of the AT. Even had he died the day his patent application was submitted, he would still be lauded "by his peers" as a revolutionary inventor of an indispensible part universally used by the industry.

I may be just a "Gopi" (wtf? hmmm...), but I'm liking this automatic transmission analogy :approve:

BroncoBuff
08-06-2008, 02:30 PM
Buff--I think you're mistaken in the assumption that young people don't appreciate Hendrix. He still hauls in a lot of fans. I also think his vehicle is superior to Zeppelin's repetitiveness and often inane lyrics.
Yes, I'm sure there are many young Hendrix fans ... rightly so. But I'll bet sales of Hendrix albums are nominal at best ... same for Cream, Blind Faith, Derek & the Dominos, early Clapton. At least compared to Led Zeppelin.

In fact, I'll bet any ONE of Zeppelin I, II or IV alone outsells today all Cream, D&D, Blind Faith and Hendrix (non greatest hits) albums combined.

Yep, I'll bet that.

Rohirrim
08-06-2008, 02:33 PM
I'm not so sure I agree with this. In fact, I don't. Roh's little buddy kinda proves his reach is gone.



Well, the same can apply to the inventor of the AT. Even had he died the day his patent application was submitted, he would still be lauded "by his peers" as a revolutionary inventor of an indispensible part universally used by the industry.

I may be just a "Gopi" (wtf? hmmm...), but I'm liking this automatic transmission analogy :approve:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopi

You're a Zep Gopi. :welcome:

You also have to take into account that Zep came after the Beatles, Stones, Clapton, the Who, Hendrix, etc. etc. etc. so one must assume that much of their gear box is derivative.

BroncoBuff
08-06-2008, 02:35 PM
IMO, the great artists transcend the barriers of culture and time.
Zeppelin has done so.

Hendrix definitely has not.

Rohirrim
08-06-2008, 02:37 PM
Yes, I'm sure there are many young Hendrix fans ... rightly so. But I'll bet sales of Hendrix albums are nominal at best ... same for Cream, Blind Faith, Derek & the Dominos, early Clapton. At least compared to Led Zeppelin.

In fact, I'll bet any ONE of Zeppelin I, II or IV alone outsells today all Cream, D&D, Blind Faith and Hendrix (non greatest hits) albums combined.

Yep, I'll bet that.

Here's an eye-opener: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_worldwide

Rohirrim
08-06-2008, 02:40 PM
Zeppelin has done so.

Hendrix definitely has not.

The only rock and roll band I would put in that category would be the Beatles.

epicSocialism4tw
08-06-2008, 02:42 PM
Sorry. I have to give "most influential" award to the Beatles, by far. And when I say "by far" I mean on the cosmic level. Somewhere after that (maybe a solar system or two) comes the Stones, Hendrix, Clapton and then a comet's throw back (perhaps a couple of more star systems) comes Zep.

Nah...Zeppelin is a somewhat direct line from the Beatles to everything after.

Hendrix influenced some players.

Clapton wasnt as much of an influence as he was influenced. If you like what Clapton does, you go beyond him to his sources, which are much better.

bombay
08-06-2008, 02:42 PM
I wasn't going to mention this, because I'm not sure it bolsters my argument, but the first time my 13 year old Panic At The Disco fan daughter heard Hendrix coming out of my stereo, she demanded the disc so she could rip it (see? that doesn't help at all)

Guitar store guy is a just one young person, though, and probably doesn't speak for or to any larger group of young people. It would be interesting to actually run down current sales numbers. I'd be kind of surprised if all of the bands mentioned aren't running pretty close to neck and neck.

BroncoBuff
08-06-2008, 02:47 PM
The only rock and roll band I would put in that category would be the Beatles.
I submit to you, sir, that a category of one is not a category at all.

BroncoBuff
08-06-2008, 02:49 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopi
You're a Zep Gopi. :welcome:
Hindu cow-herding girl? I guess I qualify ::)


You also have to take into account that Zep came after the Beatles, Stones, Clapton, the Who, Hendrix, etc. etc. etc. so one must assume that much of their gear box is derivative.
No doubt whatsoever Zeppelin is derivative. But they broke SO MUCH GROUND, that it's hardly important to mention. Same with the Beatles ... they were derivative too at first, but like Zeppelin, they transcended their source material by such a margin as to render those sources a neglibible part of the whole.

Again, Hendrix as an artist is largely forgettable. I had all his albums, but the only CD I have now is a greatest hits one. And out of 3000 or 4000 mp3s in my computer, none are Hendrix. But that doesn't mean I don't appreciate him, I do. Very much. Visited his grave here the first week we moved to Seattle four years ago.

Rohirrim
08-06-2008, 02:52 PM
Nah...Zeppelin is a somewhat direct line from the Beatles to everything after.

Hendrix influenced some players.

Clapton wasnt as much of an influence as he was influenced. If you like what Clapton does, you go beyond him to his sources, which are much better.

I love Robert Johnson and Albert King too, but I don't think anybody could buy the argument that Clapton hasn't surpassed them. Sorry. Also, when Clapton showed up at the studio to record Bluesbreakers with John Mayall and plugged his a Les Paul into those overloaded Marshalls, that is considered one of the foundational moments in rock. The ripple out from that moment is still reverberating.

alkemical
08-06-2008, 02:58 PM
Sorry. I have to give "most influential" award to the Beatles, by far. And when I say "by far" I mean on the cosmic level. Somewhere after that (maybe a solar system or two) comes the Stones, Hendrix, Clapton and then a comet's throw back (perhaps a couple of more star systems) comes Zep.

Interesting side note:

The sound engineer that did the work for the beatles where they sampled sound for the first time - worked with Brion Gysin & W. Burroughs on their cut-up technique - He took the audio-visual methods that needed to made for Gysin & Burroughs and applied it to the beatles.

B

alkemical
08-06-2008, 03:04 PM
I love Robert Johnson and Albert King too, but I don't think anybody could buy the argument that Clapton hasn't surpassed them. Sorry. Also, when Clapton showed up at the studio to record Bluesbreakers with John Mayall and plugged his a Les Paul into those overloaded Marshalls, that is considered one of the foundational moments in rock. The ripple out from that moment is still reverberating.

Clapton at one time stated, that it takes more than one guitar player to play like R. Johnson and that clapton himself couldn't play the way Robert did.

Robert Johnson influenced Zepplin, the Stones and Clapton (cream, etc) - His influence is ginormous.

BroncoBuff
08-06-2008, 03:08 PM
Sorry. I have to give "most influential" award to the Beatles, by far. And when I say "by far" I mean on the cosmic level. Somewhere after that (maybe a solar system or two) comes the Stones, Hendrix, Clapton and then a comet's throw back (perhaps a couple of more star systems) comes Zep.
Only on some "cosmic level" do these rankings come close to working. Clapton as an artist is largely forgettable Roh, sorry. Especially compared to a Led Zeppelin. If you list influential artists musically, none on that list but the Beatles qualify as on Zeppelin's level.


And when you say "a comet's throw back (perhaps a couple of more star systems)," you're betraying an inordinant dislike of Zeppelin, such that it clouds your objective appreciation of the facts. Even the biggest Zeppelin detractors won't go near where you're at there. Because it's wrong empirically. Led Zeppelin has sold more records and spawned many more imitators (and isn't that the definition of "influence"? ) than the Stones, Who and Clapton combined. Clapton was far more a musician than an artist.

BroncoBuff
08-06-2008, 03:25 PM
In fact, both Clapton and Hendrix - as artists - are largely forgettable.

Rohirrim
08-06-2008, 03:26 PM
Only on some "cosmic level" do these rankings come close to working. Clapton as an artist is largely forgettable Roh, sorry. Especially compared to a Led Zeppelin. If you list influential artists musically, none on that list but the Beatles qualify as on Zeppelin's level.


And when you say "a comet's throw back (perhaps a couple of more star systems)," you're betraying an inordinant dislike of Zeppelin, such that it clouds your objective appreciation of the facts. Even the biggest Zeppelin detractors won't go near where you're at there. Because it's wrong empirically. Led Zeppelin has sold more records and spawned many more imitators (and isn't that the definition of "influence"? ) than the Stones, Who and Clapton combined. Clapton was far more a musician than an artist.

No, I actually like Zep quite a bit (at least their first four albums, which I have). Maybe it's because I'm not a heavy metal fan (which is where most of Zep's influence reverberates). In fact, I don't like heavy metal even a little bit. (By heavy metal I mean the genre that contains AC/DC, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, etc. etc. etc. and all the stuff since). Zep's musicianship and their initial respect for the blues keeps them out of that trough, IMO. So the "influential artists musically" category for me is limited by the extent of the influence, and Zep's influence is limited to their genre. The only band I'd put up in the same cosmos with the Beatles, influentially speaking, would have to be Pink Floyd.

Rohirrim
08-06-2008, 03:27 PM
Clapton at one time stated, that it takes more than one guitar player to play like R. Johnson and that clapton himself couldn't play the way Robert did.

Robert Johnson influenced Zepplin, the Stones and Clapton (cream, etc) - His influence is ginormous.

Clapton is a humble fellow. Of course he'd say that.

alkemical
08-06-2008, 03:29 PM
Clapton is a humble fellow. Of course he'd say that.

I've had some of the best guitar players i know try to play R. Johnson - and they can't - they feel he did sell his soul to the devil.

Just sayin'.....

bombay
08-06-2008, 03:30 PM
Only on some "cosmic level" do these rankings come close to working. Clapton as an artist is largely forgettable Roh, sorry. Especially compared to a Led Zeppelin. If you list influential artists musically, none on that list but the Beatles qualify as on Zeppelin's level.


And when you say "a comet's throw back (perhaps a couple of more star systems)," you're betraying an inordinant dislike of Zeppelin, such that it clouds your objective appreciation of the facts. Even the biggest Zeppelin detractors won't go near where you're at there. Because it's wrong empirically. Led Zeppelin has sold more records and spawned many more imitators (and isn't that the definition of "influence"? ) than the Stones, Who and Clapton combined. Clapton was far more a musician than an artist.

When speaking of the Beatles, anyone who was around in the '60's would surely agree with what Rohirim actually said: everyone was light years behind them in influence, sales, the whole baliwick.

I don't get this whole Led Zeppelin vs. the rest of rockdom thing that seems prevelent on this forum. Is it unique to here? When Led released their first album in 1968, it was like nothing I'd ever heard before and I thought, and still think, that it's a seminal album in rock history.

alkemical
08-06-2008, 03:30 PM
No, I actually like Zep quite a bit (at least their first four albums, which I have). Maybe it's because I'm not a heavy metal fan (which is where most of Zep's influence reverberates). In fact, I don't like heavy metal even a little bit. (By heavy metal I mean the genre that contains AC/DC, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, etc. etc. etc. and all the stuff since). Zep's musicianship and their initial respect for the blues keeps them out of that trough, IMO. So the "influential artists musically" category for me is limited by the extent of the influence, and Zep's influence is limited to their genre. The only band I'd put up in the same cosmos with the Beatles, influentially speaking, would have to be Pink Floyd.

A good bit of Sabbath isn't "metal" - it's hard blues rock. I'd say they had "darker" songs at times.


Hey, if you want bands that changed music... The Stooges.

BroncoBuff
08-06-2008, 03:35 PM
When speaking of the Beatles, anyone who was around in the '60's would surely agree with what Rohirim actually said: everyone was light years behind them in influence, sales, the whole baliwick.
Clearly this is correct.


I don't get this whole Led Zeppelin vs. the rest of rockdom thing that seems prevelent on this forum. Is it unique to here? .
Well, there are two of us that revere Led Zeppelin, and then the rest are wrong ;D


When Led released their first album in 1968, it was like nothing I'd ever heard before and I thought, and still think, that it's a seminal album in rock history
Yes it was, and yes it is.

I am wont to say that the entire timeline of popular music can be divided into two parts - before and after the first sound on that record, the percusssive double stop power chord (fittingly an 'E") on "Good Times Bad Times." Nothing was ever the same in music after that.



FWIW, I spent a couple hours writing a justification of my "Led Zeppelin I changed music forever" thesis awhile back in this post that compares what other groups were doing in November 1968 when Led Zep I was recorded: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1217459&postcount=70

bombay
08-06-2008, 04:01 PM
Well, there are two of us that revere Led Zeppelin, and then the rest are wrong ;D



I am wont to say that the entire timeline of popular music can be divided into two parts - before and after the first sound on that record, the percusssive double stop power chord (fittingly an 'E") on "Good Times Bad Times." Nothing was ever the same in music after that.



FWIW, I spent a couple hours writing a justification of my "Led Zeppelin I changed music forever" thesis awhile back in this post that compares what other groups were doing in November 1968 when Led Zep I was recorded: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1217459&postcount=70

I can't say I revere Led Zep although their first effort completely blew me away. I read your 'thesis' and while I'm in agreement on what the 1st album meant to the genre, disagree with your assesment of most of the other albums you 'reviewed'. Specifically Truth, Electric Ladyland, and Wheels of Fire. I loved all of those efforts and can still listen to Truth and Electric Ladyland on occasion, although Wheels doesn't hold the appeal it once did. CTA is irrelevant to me, and I thought you pretty much nailed The Allmans and Black Sabbath. John Lennon once cited listening to the first Allman brothers album as a signal that the Beatles' time had come and gone.

Hogan11
08-06-2008, 04:03 PM
FWIW, I spent a couple hours writing a justification of my "Led Zeppelin I changed music forever" thesis awhile back in this post that compares what other groups were doing in November 1968 when Led Zep I was recorded: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1217459&postcount=70

I responded to that post in kind and you never got back to me on it....

BroncoBuff
08-06-2008, 04:20 PM
Sorry Hogan ... i'll do that later tonight.

Bombay ... I like Truth and Electric Ladyland too, I really really do. But those "reviews" I wrote were entirely based upon: "Creation of the nascent hard rock/heavy metal genre," or contribution to that creation. In short, groundbreaking s o u n d.

Truth has great guitar (obviously), and is easily comparable because it included much of the same type music (and one identical cover song) of Zeppelin I ... but it sounds so sparse ... it doesn't smack you in the mouth like Zep I, not at all. Wheels of Fire is sparse-sounding too. Obviously Cream are excellent musicians, but the album sounds like a simple trio, whereas Zeppelin was far broader and more powerful sounding. Far more. (Also Clapton's distortion sound then was the primitive "muff box" sound. I and most guitar players wince when they hear that.)

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-06-2008, 06:45 PM
PERFECT ANALOGY (well, imperfect, but illustrative): The automatic transmission in your car is an INSANE invention that is more complicated than you'll probably ever know. The automatic transmision alone has more parts and is more complicated that the rest of the entire car combined. Most of us know that.

But does anybody talk about the inventor of the AT? Or about what kind of AT they have in their car? No, of course not. They might mention AT in passing, 3 or 4 speeds, but it's never the main topic. On the other hand, the MAKE and MODEL of cars are up for endless debate and discussion. Which are the most influential designs? How the Cadillac advanced the luxury automobile as a whole, or how the Chrysler Imperial as an answer to the Caddy was just a bit too ahead of its time, etc etc. They all USE the insanely revolutionary and complicate AT to make their cars better, but the closest you'll come to talking about the AT is saying how "smooth" the ride is.


Jimi Hendrix = automatic transmission
Led Zeppelin = Cadillac

:thanku:

That's a pretty good analogy. :thumbsup:

In my original posts, I gave Hendrix credit for being an innovator, but I also noted that other players were already passing him by during his lifetime.

Same thing happened to Eddie Van Halen, who revolutionized rock guitar at another moment in time: it didn't take long for the Steve Vais and the Yngwie Malmsteens to catch up to him and then pass him by.

bombay
08-06-2008, 06:57 PM
[QUOTE=BroncoBuff;2029277]Sorry Hogan ... i'll do that later tonight.

Bombay ... I like Truth and Electric Ladyland too, I really really do. But those "reviews" I wrote were entirely based upon: "Creation of the nascent hard rock/heavy metal genre," or contribution to that creation. In short, groundbreaking s o u n d.
Truth has great guitar (obviously), and is easily comparable because it included much of the same type music (and one identical cover song) of Zeppelin I ... but it sounds so sparse ... it doesn't smack you in the mouth like Zep I, not at all. Wheels of Fire is sparse-sounding too. Obviously Cream are excellent musicians, but the album sounds like a simple trio, whereas Zeppelin was far broader and more powerful sounding. Far more. (Also Clapton's distortion sound then was the primitive "muff box" sound. I and most guitar players wince when they hear that.)[/QUOTE ]

Ok, I can pretty much agree with that. As far as groundbreaking stuff, Led Zeppelin and the Allman Brothers at the Fillmore East are the only albums on your list that fit. Truth was great - it's too bad Beck and Rod Stewart didn't work together more. Beck could potentially have had the same sort of influence of Page and Clapton had, had not... whatever.. ego? caused him to want to release album after album without vocals. Stewart, of course, after a nice run with Faces, became a lounge singer. But yeah, back to your point, Led Zep one was truly groundbreaking. Black Sabbath may have been influenced to some degree by Zep on their first album as well, but they sort of broke the mold, snorted it, and proceeded to scare the hell out of damn near everyone.

Los Broncos
08-06-2008, 07:00 PM
I've had some of the best guitar players i know try to play R. Johnson - and they can't - they feel he did sell his soul to the devil.

Just sayin'.....

And Robert Johnson wasn't even the best.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-06-2008, 07:17 PM
Of course, it's all subjective...

Absolutely.

What makes one of us a Hendrix man and another a Page (or Beck or Clapton) man is ultimately as subjective as what makes an ice cream lover prefer rocky road ice cream over vanilla swiss almond.


but IMO musicians have to have something else besides technical proficiency to reach the level of (for want of a better word) master.

Absolutely.


Let's call it "voice."

By "voice" do you mean tone, touch, phrasing, an original concept, some combination of all of these, or none of the above?

The term "voice" can mean different things in music.


Alvin Lee was super fast but that was his entire schtick. Everbody watched him and went, "Gee." Small voice.

I don't think Alvin's speed was some sort of "schtick" - I think it's how he truly felt the music. The guy was amped up! And if you really study his playing, you can unearth all sorts of interesting 50s rock, blues, and jazz influences in his playing (just as you can identify the blues, Motown, and R&B roots in Hendrix's playing.)

If you say speed was Alvin's "schtick," then you could just as easily say feedback or dive bombing with the whammy bar were Hendrix's "schticks."


They call Clapton "Slow Hand" but his "voice" has been huge over the last four decades. Hell, just listen to "Have You Heard" on the Bluesbreakers album when Eric was about 18.

I strongly disagree. Clapton's ability to market himself and to mine the same safe, comfortable/profitable white boy blues niche has been "huge" over the last two decades. Clapton's "voice," meanwhile, became a caricature of itself a long time ago. In fact, Clapton is a perfect example of the often inverse relationship between celebrity and talent/innovation/actual musical achievement.

There are many British guitarists of Clapton's generation who are significantly more talented and more accomplished musicians (e.g., Jeff Beck, Robin Trower, Peter Frampton, et al) but who receive far less acclaim and recognition.


I love Jeff Beck's playing. He's a technical powerhouse. But his "voice" pales next to Clapton's (IMHO).

Once again, this is purely subjective, but I disagree insofar as Beck has a very unique "voice" and playing style, and he has been just as influential as EC - just ask almost any famous guitar player nowadays.

When you talk about Hendrix, you talk about a guy with a huge voice, a voice that pretty much redirected the music of his time.

I give him credit for being a major innovator, but Page's "voice" and Led Zeppelin's music proved to be much more influential when you consider that it spawned an entire genre (or sub-genre) of music.

Rohirrim
08-06-2008, 08:42 PM
I guess we agree it's entirely subjective.

What I mean by "voice" is that musician's entire persona plus that indefinable current that rises from within and comes through their music and over which they have no control. It is them. It is their voice. It's why they hear what they hear and why they play what they play. It's why Clapton loves blues and Knopfler loves Western swing. Who knows where it comes from? It's that thing that happens when a kid hears something for the first time and not only discovers that he loves music, but he loves that music, and not only that, he's going to learn to express himself through that music.

I wonder if you've ever seen Clapton live? I've seen him a few times. It might alter your opinion considerably.

Hogan11
08-06-2008, 11:29 PM
Sorry Hogan ... i'll do that later tonight.

These were the posts in question:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1576859&postcount=26

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1576878&postcount=29

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1576899&postcount=30


Even though they are over a year old, they still stand as my takes....funny enough, I still haven't revisited the Jeff Beck Group's Truth yet (which I should've, that's on me). I look forward to your responses to them.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-06-2008, 11:38 PM
I guess we agree it's entirely subjective.

What I mean by "voice" is that musician's entire persona plus that indefinable current that rises from within and comes through their music and over which they have no control. It is them. It is their voice. It's why they hear what they hear and why they play what they play. It's why Clapton loves blues and Knopfler loves Western swing. Who knows where it comes from? It's that thing that happens when a kid hears something for the first time and not only discovers that he loves music, but he loves that music, and not only that, he's going to learn to express himself through that music.

Gotcha.

I wonder if you've ever seen Clapton live? I've seen him a few times. It might alter your opinion considerably.

I've seen all of the guys we've been discussing live at least once.

I enjoyed some of Clapton's work with Cream, Derek and the Dominos, and his early solo works, but not enough to buy any of his records. The Cream years were more creative, in my estimation, than the white boy blues niche he eventually settled into (if I want to hear authentic blues guitar I'll go right to the source, e.g., Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, Albert King, Albert Collins, et al - I don't need to get it second-hand from some white English cat.)

As far as guitar players go, Clapton is one of the most predictable, repetitive, and boring players I can think of. He is little more than a pentatonic/blues box player who has been recycling the same, old, tired blues licks for decades.

JMO.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-07-2008, 12:12 AM
No, I actually like Zep quite a bit (at least their first four albums, which I have). Maybe it's because I'm not a heavy metal fan (which is where most of Zep's influence reverberates). In fact, I don't like heavy metal even a little bit. (By heavy metal I mean the genre that contains AC/DC, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, etc. etc. etc. and all the stuff since).

I'm no metal fan either - I can't stand that stuff.

Jimmy Page was (rightfully) none too pleased whenever anyone tried to apply that label to Led Zeppelin.

You're correct in pointing out LZ's influence on the development of heavy metal, but, as we know, and as you alluded, heavy metal was just sort of a bastardization of one facet of Led Zeppelin's music.

....Zep's influence is limited to their genre.

Not really.

You have rappers/hip hop guys sampling the riff from "Kashmir," acoustic singer/songwriter types doing "Going to California," grunge and alternative rockers citing Zeppelin as an influence, etc.

But here's the most important thing to keep in mind when you're talking about Led Zeppelin and "genre" - Led Zeppelin was so multi-faceted (i.e., drew from and effectively fused so many different musical styles) that the band defied and transcended genres - that's what made them great, and that's why kids are still buying their records and learning their tunes decades later.

Hogan11
08-07-2008, 01:10 AM
"Pine point trail ride" and "No Good woman" by Beau Jocque and a few good ones by Rockin Dopsie Jr and the Zydeco twisters who where the band at a private party I attended while in Nawlins last week.

Hey TGN...you probably won't see this unless you use your search option, but I found some rare footage of Beau Jocque on you tube....have to follow the URL though as the creep who posted it disabled the embed option.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgkAhZ3pRMw

Man, that guy was huge!! Yikes!

BroncoInferno
08-07-2008, 07:52 AM
I love Robert Johnson and Albert King too, but I don't think anybody could buy the argument that Clapton hasn't surpassed them. Sorry.

Um, no. Calpton certainly had access to gadgetry that Johnson could never have dreamed of, but just isolating the guitars...sorry, there is no comparison. Johnson might be the greatest of all-time. He made it sound like two people were playing at once. Modern rock 'n' roll probably wouldn't exist without Johnson's groundbreaking work either...as Clapton himself would tell you. In fact, by his own admission he never could work out some of Johnson's licks.

Rohirrim
08-07-2008, 09:13 AM
Gotcha.



I've seen all of the guys we've been discussing live at least once.

I enjoyed some of Clapton's work with Cream, Derek and the Dominos, and his early solo works, but not enough to buy any of his records. The Cream years were more creative, in my estimation, than the white boy blues niche he eventually settled into (if I want to hear authentic blues guitar I'll go right to the source, e.g., Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, Albert King, Albert Collins, et al - I don't need to get it second-hand from some white English cat.)

Like Page? Or Beck? ;)


As far as guitar players go, Clapton is one of the most predictable, repetitive, and boring players I can think of. He is little more than a pentatonic/blues box player who has been recycling the same, old, tired blues licks for decades.

JMO.

I couldn't disagree more. I'm sure Page could put five notes where Clapton puts one (and would) but IMO Eric puts the right one in the right place, more often than not. That's what I want from the music I listen to; Meaning. I realize there are all kinds of fingerboard acrobats out there, I've met quite a few, but there aren't a whole lot that can put the right note in the right place and convey a depth of feeling in the music. IMO, that's what Eric has pursued his entire career. Your attack on him, and his style, is nothing new. Hell, the fingerboard acrobats have been resentful of his success since he started. Usually they wrap up their argument by saying something along the lines of, "Well, his audience must be stupid." I've always said, for sheer snootiness, you can't beat musicians. :~ohyah!:

BroncoBuff
08-07-2008, 09:16 AM
As far as guitar players go, Clapton is one of the most predictable, repetitive, and boring players I can think of. He is little more than a pentatonic/blues box player who has been recycling the same, old, tired blues licks for decades.

JMO.
Wow. My thoughts exactly ... yet I never dared speak them in public. I always scratched my head that everybody thought he was so awesome.

alkemical
08-07-2008, 10:20 AM
I'm in an AIC mood for the last few weeks.

Rohirrim
08-07-2008, 10:29 AM
Wow. My thoughts exactly ... yet I never dared speak them in public. I always scratched my head that everybody thought he was so awesome.

His audience must be stupid. Ha!

BroncoBuff
08-07-2008, 10:55 AM
His audience must be stupid. Ha!
C'mon, that's not what I said.

I was talking strictly as a guitar player, and that his reputation FAR exceeds his talent. I love some of his music, many many of his songs. He's just not "God" on the guitar ... not by a longshot.

Rohirrim
08-07-2008, 11:30 AM
C'mon, that's not what I said.

I was talking strictly as a guitar player, and that his reputation FAR exceeds his talent. I love some of his music, many many of his songs. He's just not "God" on the guitar ... not by a longshot.

j/k. I think he only got the "God" thing after the Bluesbreakers album, and Cream, I suppose. He may not be God, but he's no slouch.

alkemical
08-07-2008, 12:14 PM
Musically: The Doors & Tool have MUCH in common.

Bronx33
08-07-2008, 04:20 PM
Listening to the radio this morning and dave stuart was the guest, anyways he was promoting his new album with a 30 piece orchestra (rock fabulous orchestra) playing covers. (I would bet this sounds awesome on the right system) anyways heres a few freebees to check out.

http://www.davestewart.com/songbook/

Bronx33
08-07-2008, 04:29 PM
Wow. My thoughts exactly ... yet I never dared speak them in public. I always scratched my head that everybody thought he was so awesome.


Well excuse the guy for playing what he loves and exposing a new audience to classic blues which they would never ever set their ears on if it were not for him. I love the guy hes on of my favorites and always will be for (i love the blues)


Ohhhhhh and by the way (i just happen to be wearing this) ;D

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/3596/dscf0281gm3.jpg

Bronx33
08-07-2008, 06:54 PM
Hogan have you heard of a hendrix CD called (studio outakes) volume 2 with a songs called ( things i used to do) on it?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-07-2008, 09:05 PM
Like Page? Or Beck? ;)

No.

Unlike Page or Beck, Clapton aspires and purports to be a bluesman (i.e., a blues purist) in the traditional sense.

The most you can say about either Page or Beck is that both players were influenced by blues (as well as early rock and roll and other styles) early in their development.


I couldn't disagree more. I'm sure Page could put five notes where Clapton puts one (and would) but IMO Eric puts the right one in the right place, more often than not. That's what I want from the music I listen to; Meaning. I realize there are all kinds of fingerboard acrobats out there, I've met quite a few, but there aren't a whole lot that can put the right note in the right place and convey a depth of feeling in the music. IMO, that's what Eric has pursued his entire career. Your attack on him, and his style, is nothing new. Hell, the fingerboard acrobats have been resentful of his success since he started. Usually they wrap up their argument by saying something along the lines of, "Well, his audience must be stupid." I've always said, for sheer snootiness, you can't beat musicians. :~ohyah!:

That's way off base, bro.

Jimmy Page (even by his own admission) is no monster technician on the guitar. In fact, he has a reputation for being downright sloppy a lot of the time. It's Page's creativity that makes him great. He's like a storyteller whose command of the language is shaky but whose stories are so fascinating and compelling that it doesn't matter.

Also, as quiet as it's kept, advanced technique and feeling are not always mutually exclusive or incompatible. I'm with you insofar as I can't stand to listen to "shredders" (like Yngwie Malmsteen, for example) or those guitarists who are only interested in finding out how fast they can play harmonic minor scale sequences or three-octave arpeggios, but there are players out there who have a lot of chops AND play with feeling, i.e., they sincerely mean every note they play - even when they are playing a lot of notes.

bombay
08-07-2008, 09:14 PM
Led Zeppelin is great and everyone else is not only overrated, but actually pretty horrible.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-07-2008, 09:18 PM
Led Zeppelin is great and everyone else is not only overrated, but actually pretty horrible.

I don't see anyone trying to make that argument - I'm certainly not.

"Great" and "horrible" are in the ear of the beholder, but it's still possible to have a friendly debate and differences of opinion.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-07-2008, 09:20 PM
Meaning. I realize there are all kinds of fingerboard acrobats out there, I've met quite a few, but there aren't a whole lot that can put the right note in the right place and convey a depth of feeling in the music.

Isn't it funny how this perception seems to only apply to guitar players?

You never heard anyone say of John Coltrane "that cat plays too many notes" or "he has no feeling." ;)

Rohirrim
08-07-2008, 09:33 PM
Can anybody tell me how to post you tube vids?

BroncoBuff
08-07-2008, 09:44 PM
Musically: The Doors & Tool have MUCH in common.
I watched the Broncos Super Bowl win over the Packers with Ray Manzarek. And as long as I'm droppng names ... Steve DeJarnet was there too, writer/director of "Miracle Mile."

BroncoBuff
08-07-2008, 09:50 PM
And oh by the way (i just happen to be wearing this) ;D
Classic...

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-07-2008, 09:54 PM
Can anybody tell me how to post you tube vids?

Just click on the field to the right of the video that says "embed."

Copy and paste the code here.

epicSocialism4tw
08-07-2008, 10:07 PM
Isn't it funny how this perception seems to only apply to guitar players?

You never heard anyone say of John Coltrane "that cat plays too many notes" or "he has no feeling." ;)

Or Joe Pass.

Heck, just about any jazz player from Django forward would be accused of being too note'y by someone that thinks Clapton is the penultimate.

BroncoBuff
08-07-2008, 10:12 PM
Buff--I think you're mistaken in the assumption that young people don't appreciate Hendrix. He still hauls in a lot of fans. I also think his vehicle is superior to Zeppelin's repetitiveness and often inane lyrics.
I will say this ... Jimi Hendrix is definitely an ICON ... similar to James Dean or Marilyn Monroe or Jim Morrison or Janis Joplin. Zep has none of that.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-07-2008, 11:02 PM
I will say this ... Jimi Hendrix is definitely an ICON ... similar to James Dean or Marilyn Monroe or Jim Morrison or Janis Joplin. Zep has none of that.

Like the cynical music manager in the film "Comeback" (starring Eric Burdon) put it, "when you're dead, you're great." ;)

epicSocialism4tw
08-07-2008, 11:34 PM
I will say this ... Jimi Hendrix is definitely an ICON ... similar to James Dean or Marilyn Monroe or Jim Morrison or Janis Joplin. Zep has none of that.

An icon does not a better player than Phil Keaggy make.

I think that you are confusing pop culture notariety with skill.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-07-2008, 11:35 PM
Or Joe Pass.

Heck, just about any jazz player from Django forward would be accused of being too note'y by someone that thinks Clapton is the penultimate.

True that.

Rohirrim
08-08-2008, 06:22 AM
Or Joe Pass.

Heck, just about any jazz player from Django forward would be accused of being too note'y by someone that thinks Clapton is the penultimate.

Talk about missing the point. Both of you.

Hogan11
08-08-2008, 09:13 AM
Anyone ever hear of The Whigs from Athens GA? They opened for Dweezil Zappa's "Zappa Plays Zappa - Tour de Frank" last night in Buffalo. Easily one of the strangest bills I've experienced in quite some time.

BroncoInferno
08-08-2008, 09:20 AM
Anyone ever hear of The Whigs from Athens GA? They opened for Dweezil Zappa's "Zappa Plays Zappa - Tour de Frank" last night in Buffalo. Easily one of the strangest bills I've experienced in quite some time.

Indeed I have heard of them. Do not care for them, but the douchebag who introduced me to them slept with my ex-girlfriend a week after we broke up, so I'm probably just bitter ;D

Hogan11
08-08-2008, 09:25 AM
Indeed I have heard of them. Do not care for them, but the douchebag who introduced me to them slept with my ex-girlfriend a week after we broke up, so I'm probably just bitter ;D

:spit: Oh Man, that'll do it.

BroncoInferno
08-08-2008, 09:40 AM
:spit: Oh Man, that'll do it.

So, how was that show? I've never seen Dweezil other than TV appearances and crappy 80s videos.

Hogan11
08-08-2008, 11:53 AM
So, how was that show? I've never seen Dweezil other than TV appearances and crappy 80s videos.

I was somewhat impressed by The Whigs.

Dweezil has the chops and talent to perform his father's material, no question about that. It was okay for the most part but it kinda smacked of a tribute band's show (which, I guess it kinda was if you really wanna get down to it).

There was lots of instrumental, fusion stuff that I wasn't very familiar with and they did nothing from the releases I really enjoyed (namely the first three and You Are What You Is). I only have a few select Zappa releases anyways because I found some of the silliness of his material to be a little offputting and a lot of the weirdness as being done just for it's own sake.

All in all though, not bad for a free show (which it was...part of the "Thursday At The Square" thing they do every week there till Sept.) The fact that it rained didn't help matters any. I'm sure though, if you're into Zappa heavy, you won't be disappointed by it...myself, I wished they dusted off Motorhead Sherwood and took him on tour with them. Quite honestly, I'm not even sure if he's still alive or not.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-09-2008, 01:45 AM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UG7WIrHtLUQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UG7WIrHtLUQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Rohirrim
08-09-2008, 11:35 AM
In my CD player now.

One of America's greatest songwriters has brought out a new one:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yRtQotO4L._SS400_.jpg

I challenge you not to laugh during In Defense of Our Country or shed a tear during Feels Like Home or Losing You.

An American master.

bombay
08-09-2008, 11:51 AM
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Nice..

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-10-2008, 06:02 PM
Nice..

:thumbsup:

Kind of obscure, but always one of my favorite Stones songs.

If you lived through that era then you understand. ;)

Los Broncos
08-10-2008, 06:06 PM
Had some John Coltrane on last night....made for a good mood.

bombay
08-10-2008, 10:46 PM
:thumbsup:

Kind of obscure, but always one of my favorite Stones songs.

If you lived through that era then you understand. ;)

Oh yeah. I don't miss mornings like that.

Ha!

Los Broncos
08-11-2008, 12:32 AM
Just picked up this bands CD, love the harp' playing.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8DctzxTKZzM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8DctzxTKZzM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-11-2008, 03:47 AM
Had some John Coltrane on last night....made for a good mood.

:thumbsup:

Was just learning some "Giant Steps" lines transcribed for guitar.

Trane is to American music what Chopin or Haydn were to European classical music.

A true giant.

TailgateNut
08-11-2008, 08:42 AM
Scott Holt, "From Lettsworth To Legend - A Tribute To Buddy Guy". I saw this guy and his band perform this weekend, and I must say he is an awesome guitarist.

Los Broncos
08-11-2008, 09:31 AM
[QUOTE=L.A. BRONCOS FAN;2033963]:thumbsup:

Was just learning some "Giant Steps" lines transcribed for guitar.

Trane is to American music what Chopin or Haydn were to European classical music.

A true giant.[/QUOTE

Giant steps was the CD I had in, great stuff.

epicSocialism4tw
08-11-2008, 09:59 AM
Mew "...and the glass handed kites"

Pre K surrealism channelled through J Mascis, Genesis, Sonic Youth, and Scandanavian pop. There are some nice tunes on this record. Deserves a spin if you are into indie-prog-pop. Probably the best representative of that genre today.

They are releasing a new album this fall/winter. Im interested to see what comes of it.

Hogan11
08-11-2008, 11:01 AM
Let's get old and somewhat obscure, shall we?
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yE7NtFgfYsE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yE7NtFgfYsE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Criminally neglected stuff this.

Bronx33
08-11-2008, 01:43 PM
Check this out pretty cool with seamless changeovers..

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/29876/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/29876/978/richmedia/Zappa_Brothers_-_70s_Medley1.mp3

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/29876/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/29876/978/richmedia/Zappa_Brothers_-_70s_Medley2.mp3


Ohhhh and guess who is is....

Hogan11
08-12-2008, 06:34 AM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/M63Sho7durg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/M63Sho7durg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

The Afghan Whigs classic title track from the unsettling album of the same name....definitely not recommended if your relationship/marriage is in trouble.

Hogan11
08-12-2008, 06:36 AM
Check this out pretty cool with seamless changeovers..

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/29876/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/29876/978/richmedia/Zappa_Brothers_-_70s_Medley1.mp3

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/29876/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/29876/978/richmedia/Zappa_Brothers_-_70s_Medley2.mp3


Ohhhh and guess who is is....

Dweezil did a small segment of that when I saw him last week actually.

Bronx33
08-12-2008, 05:53 PM
Dweezil did a small segment of that when I saw him last week actually.

It figures you just saw him.

Hogan11
08-13-2008, 12:51 AM
It figures you just saw him.

If I knew you were a fan beforehand, I would've offered to get you one of them Suzy Creamcheese t-shirts they were selling.

Hogan11
08-13-2008, 12:59 AM
Two of my favorite Zappa tunes
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-W5hSNYjpUg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-W5hSNYjpUg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TZbtor6v5sA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TZbtor6v5sA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Rohirrim
08-13-2008, 07:59 AM
Two of my favorite Zappa tunes
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-W5hSNYjpUg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-W5hSNYjpUg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TZbtor6v5sA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TZbtor6v5sA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Ha! I can still recite some of that stuff word for word. You see them after school in a world all their own. To some it may seem creepy what they do. The neighbor on the right sat and watched them every night. I'll bet you do the same if they was you....whizzing and pasting and pooting through the day... :rofl:

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-13-2008, 08:13 PM
Ha! I can still recite some of that stuff word for word. You see them after school in a world all their own. To some it may seem creepy what they do. The neighbor on the right sat and watched them every night. I'll bet you do the same if they was you....whizzing and pasting and pooting through the day... :rofl:

Ha!

I was just sitting at an intersection the other day with the windows rolled down and "Titties and Beer" blasting on the car stereo. The guy in the car next to me was cracking up so bad I thought he was going to spill his Big Gulp all over himself.

Hogan11
08-15-2008, 10:25 AM
Back when I was doing it, there were a couple of nights I felt like "pulling a Vicious" with someone giving the band a hard time....here's the actual footage of the event. It's amusing to hear the guy afterwards.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/adIeDI3NgbI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/adIeDI3NgbI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Hogan11
08-15-2008, 10:27 AM
A lost new wave classic...The Paul Collins Beat
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uoCs-qDTaog&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uoCs-qDTaog&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
The Kids Are The Same is a great power pop album that I highly recommend...if you can find it, that is...I think it's now deleted.

Bronx33
08-15-2008, 07:00 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xv6oOxn1axw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xv6oOxn1axw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/d-k3QDTWrSg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/d-k3QDTWrSg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ar7DgREshAk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ar7DgREshAk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Bronx33
08-15-2008, 07:11 PM
Two of my favorite Zappa tunes
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-W5hSNYjpUg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-W5hSNYjpUg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TZbtor6v5sA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TZbtor6v5sA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

A couple goodies

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YsvWUbP9Gos&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YsvWUbP9Gos&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>





<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mRwGqf2glDs&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mRwGqf2glDs&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Bronx33
08-15-2008, 07:34 PM
What can't Ralph Macchio do!! (Humor purposes only)

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/q1ePblZSVfI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/q1ePblZSVfI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Hogan11
08-16-2008, 09:58 AM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xv6oOxn1axw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xv6oOxn1axw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Split Enz....nice. Really like the new wavish later stuff MUCH better than the progressive early stuff. History Never Repeats: The Best of Split Enz is all the casual fan really needs, but of course those taken with that are encouraged to dig deeper. Never cared for much Crowded House....which always seemed to be missing the old Enz charm in it's material to me.

I shortened it up and kept because "I Got You" because I love it....my personal fave was "One Step Ahead"
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7OuLuGS_BVw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7OuLuGS_BVw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Bronx33
08-16-2008, 12:08 PM
Split Enz....nice. Really like the new wavish later stuff MUCH better than the progressive early stuff. History Never Repeats: The Best of Split Enz is all the casual fan really needs, but of course those taken with that are encouraged to dig deeper. Never cared for much Crowded House....which always seemed to be missing the old Enz charm in it's material to me.

I shortened it up and kept because "I Got You" because I love it....my personal fave was "One Step Ahead"
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7OuLuGS_BVw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7OuLuGS_BVw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Growing up in the late 70s and the 80s i watched the transformation into new wave music i didn't like all of it but some i liked and the endz were one of them. (They were pretty talented) i still bust out there cd every once in awhile.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-17-2008, 08:01 AM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zFhK0kJMvBM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zFhK0kJMvBM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Hogan11
08-17-2008, 09:56 AM
Growing up in the late 70s and the 80s i watched the transformation into new wave music i didn't like all of it but some i liked and the endz were one of them. (They were pretty talented) i still bust out there cd every once in awhile.

They were extremely inventive and the quirkiness was authentic....you really couldn't say that about a lot of new wave acts at that time who saw quirkiness as a necessary part of trying to cash in on the trend. Most abandonded the pose as time went on and trends shifted. In the groups aftermath, Crowded House scored big on the pop charts initially, but it just wasn't near as interesting without that quirk element that the Enz had.

It was a great post. The Enz hadn't graced my players in quite awhile, so of course they went right on in, the material has held up extrememly well over the years.

Bronx33
08-17-2008, 10:58 AM
They were extremely inventive and the quirkiness was authentic....you really couldn't say that about a lot of new wave acts at that time who saw quirkiness as a necessary part of trying to cash in on the trend. Most abandonded the pose as time went on and trends shifted. In the groups aftermath, Crowded House scored big on the pop charts initially, but it just wasn't near as interesting without that quirk element that the Enz had.

It was a great post. The Enz hadn't graced my players in quite awhile, so of course they went right on in, the material has held up extrememly well over the years.



I love it when i totally forget about bands and then rediscover them all over again and i did it again when you made that post about new wave (thanks) question they may have there own genre but what are your thoughts on the B-52s early music.

Hogan11
08-17-2008, 04:04 PM
I love it when i totally forget about bands and then rediscover them all over again and i did it again when you made that post about new wave (thanks) question they may have there own genre but what are your thoughts on the B-52s early music.

That first self-titled album is a lot of fun....if you get the jokes that is. The Girls were always horrible vocalists, bent on kinda lampooning that whole Carolina soul thing and Schnieder...well, he's like a living, breathing cartoon character with a cartoon voice to match. The band barely knew how to play and the lyrics were beyond witty. Somehow it all worked. Everyone knows "Rock Lobster" of course, but the best tunes IMHO were "52 Girls" and the number one....ahhh "6060-842" (I had to look it up, been awhile). The cover of "Downtown" was funny as well.

Whilst I still have that album, I don't have Wild Planet anymore....outside of "Private Idaho" the joke seemed to wear thin, material didn't work so well, etc. You know, the usual second album slump. After that, I checked out the ep with David Byrne on it (and when that guy shows up on anything past 1979, you know you're in for medicore listening) and promptly lost faith....after that, nothing grabbed me and almost everything by them irritated me to no end.

Hogan11
08-19-2008, 05:07 AM
NOLA's own
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nZBpKnL5N0w&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nZBpKnL5N0w&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

The guitarist in the cowboy hat was once head of another NOLA band that was successful, but short-lived....you may remember it from this new wave classic
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VmevO2V2JxA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VmevO2V2JxA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Hogan11
08-21-2008, 12:19 AM
More Cowboy Mouth.....love this band.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8mm0KFOq9ag&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8mm0KFOq9ag&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

BroncoBuff
08-21-2008, 07:11 PM
It's quite rare for a guitar player to leave you slack-jawed in awe ... but that's just where I was when I first saw this on "The Dance" about 10-12 years ago ...

Astonishing.


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ETZQ3MHu4Q4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ETZQ3MHu4Q4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Amazing ... in my experience, one thing that often distinguishes good guitar players from great ones is the focus on their right hand. It's too easy to become obsessed with your left hand and leave the right as an afterthought. This piece is a great example of somebody who thinks about, works on, and utilizes his right hand.

As amazing as this guitar work is, the left hand performs very very simple fingering ... it's the right hand that makes this special.

And along these lines ... his singing does not interrupt the rhythm, flow and execution of either hand or the tempo. That can be pretty tough ... I've performed solo a pretty fair amount, and you're really naked out there without a band. You gotta keep the music going at tempo no matter what, no matter how focused you'd like to get on the lyric. Walking and chewing gum, maybe. But it's tougher than it looks.

Bronx33
08-21-2008, 07:58 PM
I have always liked lindseys folk music finger pickin style.

Bronx33
08-21-2008, 08:01 PM
I was at my brothers the other day anyways hes got a 100 inch HD tv with a massive surround system (old school) he put on this concert and it was just ***** great! it really took me back, full sail was one of my very first albums.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2KuX9wbuq7w&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2KuX9wbuq7w&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


I recommend picking up this DVD

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tt2Nwq8MDgA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tt2Nwq8MDgA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Some old stuff

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Bronx33
08-21-2008, 08:26 PM
Just havin another flashback

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4cpX1ZjuaiA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4cpX1ZjuaiA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q7iLPnDCQ1g&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q7iLPnDCQ1g&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Fkmh7k_lflA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Fkmh7k_lflA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uW3nPqPPBDw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uW3nPqPPBDw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

farner still going in 2001

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Bs_wMtsMk6w&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Bs_wMtsMk6w&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Bronx33
08-21-2008, 08:49 PM
Check this dancin out

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/v4ZqcRwC_sU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/v4ZqcRwC_sU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-22-2008, 04:18 AM
Amazing ... in my experience, one thing that often distinguishes good guitar players from great ones is the focus on their right hand.

You want right hand?

Check this guy out:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7x0yTt7LJ0o&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7x0yTt7LJ0o&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

TDmvp
08-22-2008, 05:37 AM
the guy i have jammed with all my life is left handed ... but only had a right handed guitar when he was a kid , so he learned to play it , so his dominant hand fingers ... that combined with his large clown like hands i think make him better then alot of guys i have seen .... when he was little and tried getting lessons the teachers couldn't do crap with him ... playing wrong handed and fingering everything all goofy cause of his giant hands LOL ...
worked out real well tho ...

bombay
08-22-2008, 02:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDUcqZvZ1MI

I'm too stupid to learn how to embed. Can someone explain it once more?Anyway, Procol Harum, A Salty Dog. Wish these geezers would tour the US. Robin Trower doesn't do the fake playing thing very well.

Hogan11
08-22-2008, 04:20 PM
Check this dancin out

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/v4ZqcRwC_sU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/v4ZqcRwC_sU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Grand Funk Railroad....nice :thumbsup:

I perfer the early Railroad these days over the Sabbath & Zeppelin....not as overplayed to me over the years, the energy was always high, and Mel and Don rank right up there with my fave bass players and drummers. The addition of a keyboard player dulled the edge some, but it was still good stuff. The self titled Red album is one of my all time favorite albums.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IMg1L5umAnI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IMg1L5umAnI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
I know I posted this somewhere before, but it's a great performance vid.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0x6chChxzV0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0x6chChxzV0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Bonus points awarded if you can tell me the name of the tunes original artist without googling.

Bronx33
08-22-2008, 05:32 PM
Too me farner and crew optimized the early 70s he just had a good solid voice and great guitar skills and i agree about mel he was a great bassist and you just can't help but love brewers afro.

short story: i was poaching records at good will and found a ( american band ) pressed in yellow vinyl and it had the original grand funk stickers that came with it. It's just rare to even find a funk record that wasn't played into the ground iam still looking for that mint hendrix, someday yep someday i will score it.


Bonus points awarded if you can tell me the name of the tunes original artist without googling

Sounds familiar can't name it though.

Hogan11
08-22-2008, 06:07 PM
Sounds familiar can't name it though.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8qe0U9s-eYg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8qe0U9s-eYg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

It's most likely an old blues song they covered, but I heard it here first.

BroncoBuff
08-23-2008, 10:36 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FUyimx5kvLc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FUyimx5kvLc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I could do without all the vampire imagery ... but I love this song.

BroncoBuff
08-23-2008, 10:47 PM
cheesy 70s .... good slide guitar, though.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-6bv4n6eidI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-6bv4n6eidI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

BroncoBuff
08-23-2008, 10:50 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jxz2wQX3EvA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jxz2wQX3EvA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

more cheesy 70s ... but I love it

BroncoBuff
08-23-2008, 10:52 PM
Hamilton, Joe Frank and Reynolds ... cheesy macho 70s, but I work out to this stuff sometimes.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VOqIv3M3Zoo&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VOqIv3M3Zoo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WtB4AGcyw88&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WtB4AGcyw88&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

BroncoBuff
08-23-2008, 10:55 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gOOb6fEHPQ4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gOOb6fEHPQ4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ywv5fxFpR_8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ywv5fxFpR_8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Rcx33eDxAC0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Rcx33eDxAC0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

BroncoBuff
08-23-2008, 10:58 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_qn3ilJl_0A&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_qn3ilJl_0A&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I encourage everybody to listen to ONE kd lang song ... bluesy and powerful


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9qFKN68GSDY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9qFKN68GSDY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Rohirrim
08-23-2008, 11:32 PM
I wish I knew how to embed a video. :pity:

Bronx33
08-24-2008, 12:06 AM
I wish I knew how to embed a video. :pity:



Ok take a look at this link


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x6chChxzV0

see where it says embed video on the right just above (search)

just drag and copy that and paste it right in your post (that's it)

BroncoBuff
08-24-2008, 01:09 AM
I wish I knew how to embed a video. :pity:
Pretty easy ... wherever there's a line called "Embed" like here on YouTube, copy the line (red), and then past it into your post.

But do NOT paste it in the "Quick Reply" box below ... you have to "Go Advanced" or the links will parse and it won't work.


http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/685/25268996co7.jpg

bronco militia
08-25-2008, 11:02 AM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-UNfNpjWz-Y&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-UNfNpjWz-Y&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

bronco militia
08-25-2008, 11:03 AM
But do NOT paste it in the "Quick Reply" box below ... you have to "Go Advanced" or the links will parse and it won't work.


]

not true

Hogan11
08-26-2008, 02:45 AM
R.E.M.'s glorious national TV debut
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KA57Pafq_NU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KA57Pafq_NU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

BroncoInferno
08-26-2008, 08:07 AM
R.E.M.'s glorious national TV debut
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KA57Pafq_NU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KA57Pafq_NU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

You know, I love REM and am one of those folks who prefer their pre-Warner Bros. albums to their later stuff (although I really like that stuff as well), but I've never been able to get into Murmur. It's a bit too murky for me. I prefer the bright jangle and more refined pop sensibility of the records that follow.

bronco militia
08-26-2008, 09:31 AM
Metallica: "My Apocalypse"

http://www.metallica.com/index.asp?item=601136

bronco militia
08-26-2008, 11:44 AM
:militia: :militia: :militia: :militia: :militia:

BroncoBuff
08-26-2008, 02:08 PM
not true
*SIGH*

Why do you punk me like this? It is absolutely true.

The default vBulletin software option is to parse links in your post. 'Parsing links' is an HTML function that does a couple things - it makes the link clickable, and it abbreviates the sometimes very long addresses with shorter displays.

The display page you're reading now is in HTML mode ... so, if you include a properly formatted URL address in the "Quick Reply" box below on this page, they automatically parse all the links (and Embed lines include several links). But if you "Go Advanced," you are in "text mode" - that only converts to HTML when you post or 'Preview Post,' and accordingly, all the Embed links and code work together to give you a video box display.



EXAMPLES:

If you paste the embed line into the HTML Quick Reply box below, the links automatically parse (blue text below), you get errors as 'boxed dots' (circled in green), and you don't get the video display display box, thusly:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6260/82608929vr2.jpg


http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/3056/11194482gt6.jpg



But if you "Go Advanced" first, and paste the exact same Embed code as simple text first, it converts the links and HTML codes as a group when you post, and the links and code work together to give you the video display:

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/8532/97493700oo4.jpg


:thanku:

Hogan11
08-27-2008, 09:41 AM
You know, I love REM and am one of those folks who prefer their pre-Warner Bros. albums to their later stuff (although I really like that stuff as well), but I've never been able to get into Murmur. It's a bit too murky for me. I prefer the bright jangle and more refined pop sensibility of the records that follow.

I understand how you could feel that way..that's a common criticism of the band's early output. Although Reckoning is far and away my favorite R.E.M. release, I tend to agree with those who site the debut as one of the more remarkable debut's of all time. Multi-layered, multi-dimensional, semi-exotic, tuneful and solid from top to bottom (no filler or throwaways at all...matter of fact, I don't detect any of those showing up in any R.E.M. release untill Life's Rich Pagent's "Underneath The Bunker").

I still advocate it as a modern/alt rock signpost that no collection should be without. Actually, I do that for the band's first three releases.

bronco militia
08-27-2008, 10:31 AM
*SIGH*

Why do you punk me like this? It is absolutely true.




bwaha.....I appreciate all of the visual aids.

all of my embeded youtube vids are posted from the quick reply box. Not sure why your links are getting parsed and mine work just fine.

BroncoBuff
08-27-2008, 01:47 PM
bwaha.....I appreciate all of the visual aids.

all of my embeded youtube vids are posted from the quick reply box. Not sure why your links are getting parsed and mine work just fine.
Probably something in the "Options" page that you (or I) changed from the default mode ;D

Hogan11
08-27-2008, 09:48 PM
Squeeze - Another Nail In My Heart
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/X6pUZNfzk3Q&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/X6pUZNfzk3Q&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I wanted to do the original vid for "Pulling Muscles" but the creep who posted it disabled the embedding :(

Los Broncos
08-30-2008, 01:00 AM
Bobby Caldwell

Hogan11
09-01-2008, 09:31 AM
And yet another New Wave Classic vid
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-JJ7oGHwMTI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-JJ7oGHwMTI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Any man who went on to marry Carlene Carter has earned the right to dub himself The Jesus of Cool.

Q: What does Nick Lowe and Squeeze's Glen Tillbrook have in common?

A: They both kinda look like Broncobuff Ha!

Los Broncos
09-02-2008, 09:19 PM
My favorite Control Denied song.......

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LIpWJmZ8jvc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LIpWJmZ8jvc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

epicSocialism4tw
09-03-2008, 08:36 AM
Just got back from Dia de los Toadies at Possum Kingdom Lake here in Tejas.

Toadies still put on a nice, high energy show. They'll be coming close to you on their tour supporting their new album "No Deliverance".

Check it out.

MileHighMagic
09-03-2008, 01:30 PM
Frank Sinatra on Sirius.

Hogan11
09-04-2008, 02:28 PM
The Specials
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TGDQ85Dg-ss&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TGDQ85Dg-ss&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/T6fkHZzlFUA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/T6fkHZzlFUA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

epicSocialism4tw
09-04-2008, 02:44 PM
Dove Hunter

Check it out.

Rohirrim
09-05-2008, 01:20 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OrljWGIHB7c&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OrljWGIHB7c&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>