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MABroncoFan
04-11-2011, 11:03 AM
from rotoworld.com. Look at the 2 disappointments/busts they choose to list here...


According to Football Outsiders' "SackSEER" formula, Texas A&M OLB Von Miller clearly projects as the top pass rusher in the 2011 draft.

The SackSEER has previously projected high NFL sack rates for Shawne Merriman and Mario Williams, and disappointments/busts like Jarvis Moss and Robert Ayers. The system takes into account per-game college sack rates and athletic measurables. For Miller, SackSEER projects 36.4 sacks in the first four seasons for an average of 9.1 annually. Justin Houston comes in a relatively distant second with 6.5 per year. Ryan Kerrigan is third at 6.2.

Tombstone RJ
04-11-2011, 11:16 AM
from rotoworld.com. Look at the 2 disappointments/busts they choose to list here...


According to Football Outsiders' "SackSEER" formula, Texas A&M OLB Von Miller clearly projects as the top pass rusher in the 2011 draft.

The SackSEER has previously projected high NFL sack rates for Shawne Merriman and Mario Williams, and disappointments/busts like Jarvis Moss and Robert Ayers. The system takes into account per-game college sack rates and athletic measurables. For Miller, SackSEER projects 36.4 sacks in the first four seasons for an average of 9.1 annually. Justin Houston comes in a relatively distant second with 6.5 per year. Ryan Kerrigan is third at 6.2.

bummer about Moss and Ayers...

Beantown Bronco
04-11-2011, 11:24 AM
Ayers will be fine this year. The guy was injured and playing out of position the last two years and was still getting decent pressure on the QB. He just wasn't getting the actual sack with any regularity.

No arguing Moss though.

broncocalijohn
04-11-2011, 11:26 AM
There is still hope for Ayers but Moss plain out sucks for his draft status. Von Miller keeps climbing the board. Two months ago, barely on our radar....at least at the Mane.

schaaf
04-11-2011, 11:28 AM
I think Ayers is going to be a beast this year... I think he's going to be an all around End that gets a lot of sacks from Dumervil's pressure opposite him.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-11-2011, 11:31 AM
Ayers didnt even get sacks in college, not sure why people think he'll be a sackmaster on the pro level. I think Miller will be though

Beantown Bronco
04-11-2011, 11:42 AM
Ayers didnt even get sacks in college, not sure why people think he'll be a sackmaster on the pro level. I think Miller will be though

I don't think anyone really thinks he'll be a sackmaster, but he does know how to make plays in the backfield. For what it's worth, he led the SEC in tackles for loss his senior year.

PRBronco
04-11-2011, 11:45 AM
Cool, is that assuming he's plugged into a 3-4 at OLB?

Beantown Bronco
04-11-2011, 11:47 AM
Cool, is that assuming he's plugged into a 3-4 at OLB?

Considering Denver will be going with a 4-3, he'd have to be traded away for that to happen.

MABroncoFan
04-11-2011, 11:57 AM
I thought Ayers was playing well before getting hurt last year. Don't know if he'll ever be a big sack guy, but I think he'll take a leap forward going back to his natural DE position this year.

Dareus is the logical pick for us at 2, but Miller is intriguing with his great pass rush ability. Would be nice to pair him up with Doom on passing downs, coming from both sides of the QB. Plus we could plug him in at SLB.

We could get 1 or 2 solid DTs in the 2nd or 3rd round (not Dareus caliber, but still good), but we wouldn't be able to get a pass rusher like Miller.

PRBronco
04-11-2011, 11:58 AM
Considering Denver will be going with a 4-3, he'd have to be traded away for that to happen.

Kinda what I'm getting at. This stat is neat, but may not be relevant to us.

Tombstone RJ
04-11-2011, 12:10 PM
Good news about switching back to a 4-3 is that Ayers should do better, but Doom may come back down to earth on his sacks. That's ok if between the 2 of them they can both get double digit sacks.

Hercules Rockefeller
04-11-2011, 12:13 PM
Ayers didnt even get sacks in college, not sure why people think he'll be a sackmaster on the pro level. I think Miller will be though

No ****. Never thought he was going to be a huge sack guy, and while he hasn't been flashy, he's been solid.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-11-2011, 12:23 PM
Kinda what I'm getting at. This stat is neat, but may not be relevant to us.

For the 1,000,000,000 time: If Miller is drafted by the broncos, he will not be used as a traditional 4-3 Sam. He will be used in many different situations.

RhymesayersDU
04-11-2011, 12:32 PM
I thought this thread would be about the meat peeker. I'm unsure why I'm disappointed that it's not.

bronco militia
04-11-2011, 12:36 PM
I thought this thread would be about the meat peeker. I'm unsure why I'm disappointed that it's not.

oh, you're looking for this guy, errr thread



http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=97696

;D

PRBronco
04-11-2011, 01:12 PM
For the 1,000,000,000 time: If Miller is drafted by the broncos, he will not be used as a traditional 4-3 Sam. He will be used in many different situations.

Oh snap I didn't know we had a mole on the inside! What else you got?

Kaylore
04-11-2011, 01:32 PM
Ayers didnt even get sacks in college, not sure why people think he'll be a sackmaster on the pro level. I think Miller will be though

I don't think he will, but I don't think he's a "bust" either. He was projected as a guy with a low ceiling but a really high floor. He's solid in the run and can get pressure. I know people think he was supposed to be Reggie White (not you, obviously) but that's never what I expected from him.

Ziggy
04-11-2011, 01:50 PM
With John Fox being one of the better defensive minds in the league, I could see him using Miller the same way that Derrick Thomas and Lawrence Taylor were used in a 3-4. Miller comes off the edge with the same speed and balance that Thomas did.

HAT
04-11-2011, 01:59 PM
If you're building an NFL team, you start with a quarterback, a left tackle on offense and an edge pass rusher. That's how important pass rushers are in today's NFL.

"I'd say that's true," said John Elway, the Broncos' executive vice president of football operations. "A quarterback, far and away, is the most important. (Then) a left tackle and then a pass rusher, maybe a top corner, tied with pass rusher."

While some teams can get their middle linebacker involved in the pass rush, Miller's biggest impact on a game would come from an outside position ó most likely as an outside linebacker in a 4-3 alignment who could even line up in a three-point stance as a defensive end when a team went to a nickel (five defensive backs) or dime (six defensive backs) package.

Miller played defensive end most of his career at Texas A&M. But he lined up at weakside outside linebacker in a 4-3 alignment most of the time during the week of practices leading up to the Senior Bowl in Mobile, Ala., last month. Against some of the best pass blockers in this draft, the 6-foot-2, 237-pound Miller displayed quality pass-rush skills. He also showed good movement and pursuit of the ball against the run.

Miller fits the profile of a linebacker in John Fox's defense, and new coordinator Dennis Allen wants speed everywhere on Denver's defense.

Read more: Q&A: Broncos should consider drafting A&M's Von Miller - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17491410#ixzz1JFaCxncC
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

HAT
04-11-2011, 02:10 PM
Here's a rather long post about how Miller could be used as a Bronco from RodneyA @ MHR. I don't agree with everything here but he makes some good points as to utilizing Doom, Miller & Ayers.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2011/4/6/2095104/conservative-blitzing-oximoron

I think he makes his case best in the comments section rather than the actual 'article'........

First is the issue of needs. Some people donít want to spend a high pick on a DE while already having two solid DEs to start, but nearly everyone will still agree that we canít make the same mistake of having all our pass rushing eggs in one basket again. Dumervilís injury Doomed our season, and we canít allow ourselves to repeat past mistakes. Plus, in this system, he alone, isnít nearly enough anyway. Not in this system. Then we have a need at SAM. There isnít a single person on the roster thatís remotely likely to play that position. Thatís two needs. And MIller can fill them both with one pick. With limited resources, that bumps his value quite a lot.

Secondly, the strength of this draft is at DT in the 2nd round. No need to explain that one.

What Miller gives us here, is a prospect that projects to fill two needs for us Ė a starting SAM and an additional pass rusher. We will use him in the zone blitz, IMO, a whole lot more than you give credit for, but even if you only think heíd be good for 5-7 sacksÖ then he still filled two needs. We no longer have to draft an early DE (not saying we donít need one more anyway, but the need drops down to manageable rather than crisis), and we now have our starting SAM.

This means that by the end of the 2nd round, our strategy says itís more likely than not that weíll have filled our need for pass rusher, SAM, DT and DT. Thatís probably our five biggest needs. And it plays to the strength of the draft.

So with that strategy, the question becomes, CAN Miller really fill that need of pass rusher? I say yes. Others say no. Weíre not the first to try it, though. Brian Orakpo is a good recent example. And our team is way better setup to use the zone blitz, which I believe will be his bread and butter.

And the last thing about Miller is that he truly epitomizes everything The Johns say theyíre looking for in a football player. Everything. He comes from a family with money, and isnít likely looking for a payday. Heís had multiple years of domination. Heís a team player above all else. Heís blazing fast, high work ethic, no flags, passionate and absolutely loves the game. Heís had about four different kinds of visits so far. My guess is that theyíre trying to rack his brain to see if he understands defenses well enough to eventually QB ours.

zdoor
04-11-2011, 03:12 PM
I don't think he will, but I don't think he's a "bust" either. He was projected as a guy with a low ceiling but a really high floor. He's solid in the run and can get pressure. I know people think he was supposed to be Reggie White (not you, obviously) but that's never what I expected from him.

I think a lot of what expectations are for him are due to Mayock calling him the potential best defensive player in the draft...

tsiguy96
04-11-2011, 05:28 PM
I think a lot of what expectations are for him are due to Mayock calling him the potential best defensive player in the draft...

*in 3 years. thats this year.

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 06:07 PM
I don't think he will, but I don't think he's a "bust" either. He was projected as a guy with a low ceiling but a really high floor. He's solid in the run and can get pressure. I know people think he was supposed to be Reggie White (not you, obviously) but that's never what I expected from him.

I felt he was pretty poor against the run and in pass rush last year. Did NOT like what I saw from Ayers, and I really like him. Then again, I also feel like a 3-4 is him playing out of position, so I'm pretty damn optimistic about him this coming season.

*in 3 years. thats this year.

Mayock has gone full retard over the past few years. I've lost a HUGE amount of respect for him since his peak in 2006.

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 06:09 PM
Kinda what I'm getting at. This stat is neat, but may not be relevant to us.

???

But his TFL leading season was in a 4-3

tsiguy96
04-11-2011, 06:48 PM
Mayock has gone full retard over the past few years. I've lost a HUGE amount of respect for him since his peak in 2006.

still gets a ton of respect from most people in and around the league it appears. they are likely gonna move him in to the thursday broadcast role to replace the miraculous duo of theismann and matt millen.

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 07:11 PM
still gets a ton of respect from most people in and around the league it appears. they are likely gonna move him in to the thursday broadcast role to replace the miraculous duo of theismann and matt millen.

I definitely think it's still deserved. He IS a very knowledgeable guy and good at what he does and no one hits 100% of the time.

That being said, he's hanging himself with his love for being a contrarian. He has this weird compulsion to single out underdogs and claim they're the next second coming of LT, Montana, Ogden, etc. That's why I've personally stopped paying nearly as much attention to him as I have in the past.

I also think he overvalues measurables and that plays a big part of his wild projections (ex: Ayers, McCoy over Suh, and now Dareus)

rugbythug
04-11-2011, 07:19 PM
I definitely think it's still deserved. He IS a very knowledgeable guy and good at what he does and no one hits 100% of the time.

That being said, he's hanging himself with his love for being a contrarian. He has this weird compulsion to single out underdogs and claim they're the next second coming of LT, Montana, Ogden, etc. That's why I've personally stopped paying nearly as much attention to him as I have in the past.

I also think he overvalues measurables and that plays a big part of his wild projections (ex: Ayers, McCoy over Suh, and now Dareus)

Sun had all the mesurables did he not? He is as good as the talking heads get. And for that matter hitting 51% in the draft puts you in the hof.

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 07:35 PM
Sun had all the mesurables did he not? He is as good as the talking heads get. And for that matter hitting 51% in the draft puts you in the hof.

McCoy beat him in the 40 (4.94 vs 5.03) and showed more explosiveness in the broad jump (9.5' to 8.6') and McCoy wears his weight on his frame a lot better. You are right that Suh absolutely does have the measurables, but not quite as good as McCoy outside of bench press I believe.

It's just another case of Mayock making projections that are far off the corresponding collegiate production. He called McCoy a far superior pass rusher while Suh was better against the run. Meanwhile, Suh posted double digit sacks on a terrible DL en route to a first team all pro selection as a rookie! And McCoy? 3 sacks on a far superior DL.

This isn't the first time he's ignored collegiate production and made absurd projections and judging from his boner for Dareus, it won't be the last either.

Disclaimer: I also thought McCoy would be better than Suh but learned my lesson the hard way (facepalming self)

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 07:42 PM
Another good reminder on taking Mayock with a grain of salt... Mayock on Clausen:

"He's not as polished or as accurate," Mayock said. "I don't think he gets past 13 or 14, where San Francisco or Seattle comes into play. But it's a little high at No. 4 for Clausen. ... The bigger issues for him are convincing people he can be a great leader and will work his tail off. Then all the intangibles are there to be the franchise quarterback. I can tell you right now as far as natural physical ability he has it."


13/14 or 48 middle of the second... tomayto tomahto

Finger Roll
04-11-2011, 07:57 PM
Another good reminder on taking Mayock with a grain of salt... Mayock on Clausen:

"He's not as polished or as accurate," Mayock said. "I don't think he gets past 13 or 14, where San Francisco or Seattle comes into play. But it's a little high at No. 4 for Clausen. ... The bigger issues for him are convincing people he can be a great leader and will work his tail off. Then all the intangibles are there to be the franchise quarterback. I can tell you right now as far as natural physical ability he has it."


13/14 or 48 middle of the second... tomayto tomahto

lol, he's been off alot lately that's for sure

tsiguy96
04-11-2011, 08:01 PM
Another good reminder on taking Mayock with a grain of salt... Mayock on Clausen:

"He's not as polished or as accurate," Mayock said. "I don't think he gets past 13 or 14, where San Francisco or Seattle comes into play. But it's a little high at No. 4 for Clausen. ... The bigger issues for him are convincing people he can be a great leader and will work his tail off. Then all the intangibles are there to be the franchise quarterback. I can tell you right now as far as natural physical ability he has it."


13/14 or 48 middle of the second... tomayto tomahto

to be fair every draft analyst whiffed on that.

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 08:07 PM
to be fair every draft analyst whiffed on that.

McShay had him 38th.

It's not an indictment on Mayock. Like I said, everyone misses. But he loves going out on a limb and making bold predictions. It's got him a nice TV gig and a lot of attention, but he's coming perilously close to hanging himself by that same rope.

If Dareus flops like McCoy (and Dareus is absolutely a worse prospect than McCoy was), a lot of people will start taking him with an even bigger grain of salt.

This "bold 2007 prediction" is what jaw-dropped me and derailed my Mayock train:

"Mayock: JaMarcus Russell's ceiling is as high as any quarterback I have seen coming out of college since John Elway."

Here's something extra funny on that note from the same article:

"I have been pretty good at the quarterback position."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/richard_deitsch/04/24/mayock.kiper/

tsiguy96
04-11-2011, 08:13 PM
McShay had him 38th.

It's not an indictment on Mayock. Like I said, everyone misses. But he loves going out on a limb and making bold predictions. It's got him a nice TV gig and a lot of attention, but he's coming perilously close to hanging himself by that same rope.

If Dareus flops like McCoy (and Dareus is absolutely a worse prospect than McCoy was), a lot of people will start taking him with an even bigger grain of salt.

This "bold 2007 prediction" is what jaw-dropped me and derailed my Mayock train:

"Mayock: JaMarcus Russell's ceiling is as high as any quarterback I have seen coming out of college since John Elway."

Here's something extra funny on that note from the same article:

"I have been pretty good at the quarterback position."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/richard_deitsch/04/24/mayock.kiper/

cant argue with the rest, but hard to call a rookie DT like mccoy a bust after just one season, especially cant compare him to suh because suhs rookie season was ridiculous (though according to PFF it was overrated especially in run game).

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 08:15 PM
cant argue with the rest, but hard to call a rookie DT like mccoy a bust after just one season, especially cant compare him to suh because suhs rookie season was ridiculous (though according to PFF it was overrated especially in run game).

But I never called him a bust?

tsiguy96
04-11-2011, 08:22 PM
But I never called him a bust?

"flop" could be seen as "bust" in the context you used it...unless you are saying strictly his rookie year was a flop in which case it is slightly more accurate, except PFF had him rated pretty highly:

All NFC South Team
Defensive Tackle

Gerald McCoy (Tampa Bay Buccaneers)

Took some time to adjust to the NFL but really started to turn it on before injury ended his season prematurely. Our tenth ranked pass rusher from the DT spot.'



Gerald McCoy, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, PRP Rating Ė 6.08
He doesnít have a cool name like Ndamukong Suh, he hasnít posted double digit sacks, and no one has come up with a catchy chant for him, but McCoy wonít always be in the shadows of the monstrous Suh. Before injury ended his season, he was really starting to find his form. Four sacks may not seem like a lot, but itís the 30 total pressures that should excite Bucs fans.

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 08:25 PM
"flop" could be seen as "bust" in the context you used it...unless you are saying strictly his rookie year was a flop in which case it is slightly more accurate, except PFF had him rated pretty highly:

'

I speak plenty literally that you don't need to put words in my mouth.

Post link on "All NFC South Team"

tsiguy96
04-11-2011, 08:27 PM
I speak plenty literally that you don't need to put words in my mouth.

Post link on "All NFC South Team"


http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/03/17/breaking-out-10-pass-rushers-to-watch/
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/01/24/pff-all-nfc-south-team/

you are the most defensive person here when anyone says anything contrary to what you write, dont write stuff like calling a person a flop and expect people to not read it as you calling him a bust. it reads like you call him a bust so thats how i perceive your post, go read it again. "if dareus flops like mccoy"

edit:
football outsiders had him as all rookie team too, partly because i dont know if there were a lot of impact DT rookies, and partly because again he showed a ton of promise before being injured.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/walkthrough/2010/walkthrough-all-rookie-team

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 08:38 PM
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/03/17/breaking-out-10-pass-rushers-to-watch/
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/01/24/pff-all-nfc-south-team/

Far be it from me to disagree with the great "Profootballfocus" and it's amazing writer "Khaled Elsayed" but Ellis, Babineaux and Landri all dramatically outperformed McCoy last season so that list is ridiculous.

Also absurd:

Blount over Turner
Their entire interior OL
Quincy Black even being mentioned on the list is laughable
Both safeties (Moore and Godfrey were by far superior to either)

you are the most defensive person here when anyone says anything contrary to what you write

I'm pretty sure there's a half dozen threads proving that's you bro.

tsiguy96
04-11-2011, 08:41 PM
Far be it from me to disagree with the great "Profootballfocus" and it's amazing writer "Khaled Elsayed" but Ellis, Babineaux and Landri all dramatically outperformed McCoy last season so that list is ridiculous.

Also absurd:

Blount over Turner
Their entire interior OL
Quincy Black even being mentioned on the list is laughable
Both safeties (Moore and Godfrey were by far superior to either)
.

see edit, added in football outsiders all rookie team too. again, i think a lot of it comes down to "what he did after he settled in but before he got injured" which may not have been a long time, but he showed a ton of promise for the future while having productivity as a rookie. if denver got that out of dareus, how could anyone be upset with it?

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 08:45 PM
see edit, added in football outsiders all rookie team too. again, i think a lot of it comes down to "what he did after he settled in but before he got injured" which may not have been a long time, but he showed a ton of promise for the future while having productivity as a rookie. if denver got that out of dareus, how could anyone be upset with it?

Much more credible source. I can't fathom how they placed him ahead of Alaulu, but I digress.

If Dareus showed promise but poor production how could we be upset by it?!?! See Jarvis Moss if you want a recent example.

tsiguy96
04-11-2011, 08:51 PM
Much more credible source. I can't fathom how they placed him ahead of Alaulu, but I digress.

If Dareus showed promise but poor production how could we be upset by it?!?! See Jarvis Moss if you want a recent example.

not "poor production", mccoy actually did it on the field, as evidenced by FO and PFF. just didnt do it for a long time before he got injured. denver doesnt need anymore potential players or projects that can develop, they need guys who can go on the field and actually get the job done. it appears the top 3 defensive players (miller, dareus and peterson) could all do that for denver.

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 09:15 PM
not "poor production", mccoy actually did it on the field, as evidenced by FO and PFF. just didnt do it for a long time before he got injured. denver doesnt need anymore potential players or projects that can develop, they need guys who can go on the field and actually get the job done. it appears the top 3 defensive players (miller, dareus and peterson) could all do that for denver.

He only missed 3 games bro. It was poor production.

I'm hopeful he turns it around and has a better career than Suh. It would certainly vindicate me. After last year, I think there's a snowballs chance in hell. He'll most likely become better, but it absolutely makes me reemphasize collegiate production over frame and measurables, imo.

Dareus has even less experience than McCoy did playing over a full season less and only with 15 starts under his belt (and a suspension). He PROJECTS to be a great prospect and I'd love for him to be in Bronco colors.

But:

-He didn't produce in college at an elite or even great level
-He plays a position that takes time to develop and has minimal collegiate experience to boot
-He plays a position that has the highest bust rate in the NFL

How did we get to Dareus again?

tsiguy96
04-11-2011, 09:19 PM
He only missed 3 games bro. It was poor production.

I'm hopeful he turns it around and has a better career than Suh. It would certainly vindicate me. After last year, I think there's a snowballs chance in hell. He'll most likely become better, but it absolutely makes me reemphasize collegiate production over frame and measurables, imo.

Dareus has even less experience than McCoy did playing over a full season less and only with 15 starts under his belt (and a suspension). He PROJECTS to be a great prospect and I'd love for him to be in Bronco colors.

But:

-He didn't produce in college at an elite or even great level
-He plays a position that takes time to develop and has minimal collegiate experience to boot
-He plays a position that has the highest bust rate in the NFL

How did we get to Dareus again?

thats about it. with williams and bannans release, im not sure if denver even has enough DL on the roster to field a competitive rotation either, so needs and value mesh there.

like i said i would be happy with miller or peterson in that spot too, but if you have all 3 ranked the same and you are the broncos, you have to take dareus just based on need. with that, im checking out for the night.

extralife
04-11-2011, 09:27 PM
With John Fox being one of the better defensive minds in the league, I could see him using Miller the same way that Derrick Thomas and Lawrence Taylor were used in a 3-4. Miller comes off the edge with the same speed and balance that Thomas did.

yeah, the problem with this is that if the guy in question doesn't end up turning into Lawrence Taylor or Derrick Thomas, he is essentially worthless and the pick is a waste. this team can ill afford to draft a dude at 2 overall without a defined place to drop him. lets stick with the DTs or Peterson. fire and forget.

DarkHorse
04-11-2011, 09:55 PM
It's 1st year Pro Bowl, Rookie of the Year, Super Bowl MVP or you're a bust mode here :)


FYI - I took "flop" to mean that he just didn't produce enough 1st year to live up to the hype that he came into the league with. Bust wasn't the first word that came into mind when I read that.


......pretty typical for 90% of rookies coming into this league. Most are either pedestrian or simply forgotten about for the first couple years.

So if Suh falls apart year 2 and beyond, but McCoy flourishes........is Mayock still a disappointment?

Perhaps he's scouting long term but you're looking at "what can you do for me RIGHT NOW" ?

DarkHorse
04-11-2011, 09:58 PM
yeah, the problem with this is that if the guy in question doesn't end up turning into Lawrence Taylor or Derrick Thomas, he is essentially worthless and the pick is a waste. this team can ill afford to draft a dude at 2 overall without a defined place to drop him. lets stick with the DTs or Peterson. fire and forget.

That same way of thinking applies to every pick that we make. What if
Dareus at #2 turns into any number of DT busts over the history of the league, which happens to be the worst Top 10 position to draft?

Same with Peterson - best since "Bailey, Sanders, Green, Revis, etc.....


ANY of these kids could end up being a bust and waste a pick on a worthless player.

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 10:03 PM
It's 1st year Pro Bowl, Rookie of the Year, Super Bowl MVP or you're a bust mode here :)


FYI - I took "flop" to mean that he just didn't produce enough 1st year to live up to the hype that he came into the league with. Bust wasn't the first word that came into mind when I read that.

That was how it was intended, so thanks.

......pretty typical for 90% of rookies coming into this league. Most are either pedestrian or simply forgotten about for the first couple years.

So if Suh falls apart year 2 and beyond, but McCoy flourishes........is Mayock still a disappointment?

Perhaps he's scouting long term but you're looking at "what can you do for me RIGHT NOW" ?

Nope, that'd be great if McCoy flourishes.

However, some of his big calls the previous few years HAVE already run their course in Jamarcus and Alphonso Smith. Hopefully Ayers becomes an exception.

DarkHorse
04-11-2011, 10:15 PM
Jury is still out for me on Alphonso Smith, just not ready to label him a bust yet. Did we screw up and overpay for him? HELL YES. No arguing that one.

extralife
04-11-2011, 11:10 PM
That same way of thinking applies to every pick that we make. What if
Dareus at #2 turns into any number of DT busts over the history of the league, which happens to be the worst Top 10 position to draft?

Same with Peterson - best since "Bailey, Sanders, Green, Revis, etc.....


ANY of these kids could end up being a bust and waste a pick on a worthless player.

what I am saying is if you take a guy without a position to play him in, you are not putting him in a position to succeed. if he doesn't turn into a superstar, you have a guy that's somewhere on the bust-below average-average-pretty good continuum either playing out of position or without a real role on the team. if he's great, then that's cool--you can structure the defense around his talents, like an LT or DT. if he's not great, you're not structuring **** around him, and so you'd almost certainly be better off with a traditional guy whose role you and he both know. Dareus or Peterson may well bust, but you're going to give them every chance to succeed and even if they don't turn into a star, you're still probably going to have a player you can do something with.

HAT
04-12-2011, 12:15 AM
It's pretty obvious at this point that Elway is going to take Miller or Peterson if forced to select at #2....

I won't mind either (or Dareus) but let's hope for a trade down. Caro taking Newton is the key...

zdoor
04-12-2011, 10:05 AM
I think the FO wants to trade but we need a dance partner... If we stay it's Miller or Peterson or Dareus IMO. I'd rather go Miller or Peterson personally as the tackle bust rate scares me and we could still get good value at tackle in the 2nd.

I think Ayers still has a chance to be a solid starter. He was improving before he injury. Could be the homer in me though...