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View Full Version : Comupter take over, its not just movies any more,it's here.


Quoydogs
03-30-2011, 09:41 AM
I have seen movies on it but I thought that it would be many decades before it happened but here it is. WOW ! I don't know about this at all. I mean I understand what they are talking about is a fantastic Idea but this could go so wrong .



[/URL][URL="http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-29-2011/miguel-nicolelis:"]<embed src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:video:thedailyshow.com:379234" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" base="." flashvars="" height="288" width="512"> (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-29-2011/miguel-nicolelis:) (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-29-2011/miguel-nicolelis:)The Daily Show - Miguel Nicolelis (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-29-2011/miguel-nicolelis)
Tags: Daily Show Full Episodes (http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/),Political Humor & Satire Blog (http://www.indecisionforever.com/),The Daily Show on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow)


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Chris
03-30-2011, 09:49 AM
They gonna turn this into a movie?

Quoydogs
03-30-2011, 09:58 AM
They gonna turn this into a movie?

Just watched a movie called surrogates, was a bad movie but it is exactly what they are talking about.

vancejohnson82
03-30-2011, 10:07 AM
They gonna turn this into a movie?

it would be the kind of movie that one person likes but is generally hated

worm
03-30-2011, 10:16 AM
it would be the kind of movie that one person likes but is generally hated

Or universally loved that you hated.

RhymesayersDU
03-30-2011, 10:31 AM
Skynet has become self-aware.

Quoydogs
03-30-2011, 10:34 AM
Joke if you want but this is some scary stuff. You just should not screw with mother nature she's a real bitch.

broncosteven
03-30-2011, 10:35 AM
I have seen movies on it but I thought that it would be many decades before it happened but here it is. WOW ! I don't know about this at all. I mean I understand what they are talking about is a fantastic Idea but this could go so wrong .



[/URL][URL="http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-29-2011/miguel-nicolelis:"]<embed src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:video:thedailyshow.com:379234" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" base="." flashvars="" height="288" width="512"> (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-29-2011/miguel-nicolelis:) (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-29-2011/miguel-nicolelis:)The Daily Show - Miguel Nicolelis (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-29-2011/miguel-nicolelis)
Tags: Daily Show Full Episodes (http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/),Political Humor & Satire Blog (http://www.indecisionforever.com/),The Daily Show on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow)


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Google Ray Kurzweil

Quoydogs
03-30-2011, 10:42 AM
Google Ray Kurzweil

It's dudes like him that are going to ruin the earth. They think its cool and all until it goes to far and then there is no backing out.

broncosteven
03-30-2011, 11:18 AM
It's dudes like him that are going to ruin the earth. They think its cool and all until it goes to far and then there is no backing out.

Nope, it is people trying to make $ off things which could go either way morally. People would love to do the surrogate thing if they could, is it right? no but would people buy into it in order to stay home and get loaded and watch daytime tv the rest of their lives? YES.

Having chronic nerve damage myself I am glad that scientists are out there studying the brain and finding ways to help us disabled people get our lives back.

broncosteven
03-30-2011, 11:22 AM
One other point I would like to make to those like TGN who think the Space race and NASA are worthless money pits: Nicoleis said near the end of the interview that the Apollo program was what inspired him to become a scientist. I love how he said that he essentially became a scientist at an early age (6-9?) watching the space race.

We need more "moon shots" to continue to inspire young people.

Quoydogs
03-30-2011, 12:09 PM
Nope, it is people trying to make $ off things which could go either way morally. People would love to do the surrogate thing if they could, is it right? no but would people buy into it in order to stay home and get loaded and watch daytime tv the rest of their lives? YES.

Having chronic nerve damage myself I am glad that scientists are out there studying the brain and finding ways to help us disabled people get our lives back.

Like I said before, what he designed it for is a fantastic idea. What it will be used for is scary.

epicSocialism4tw
03-30-2011, 12:19 PM
Brain research is farther along than Joe Schmoe realizes.

Just wait to see what happens over the next 20 years.

Quoydogs
03-30-2011, 12:31 PM
Brain research is farther along than Joe Schmoe realizes.

Just wait to see what happens over the next 20 years.

20 years ? Did you watch that video ?

epicSocialism4tw
03-30-2011, 12:34 PM
20 years ? Did you watch that video ?

Yes, 20 years.

It will be a different world.

Quoydogs
03-30-2011, 12:42 PM
Yes, 20 years.

It will be a different world.

I'm thinking more like 5 years.

Just think what happens when you combine this with cloning.

broncosteven
03-30-2011, 12:43 PM
Like I said before, what he designed it for is a fantastic idea. What it will be used for is scary.

I can see that side of the coin, during the last series of Nova they had a show on the brain and they have a magnet based device that they are using to "reset" people with severe depression and Bipolar issues. Thing was it also affected speach while in use and had some other involentary movements which I can't remember off the top of my head. It looked like a huge Key from some 1930's horror movie. That kind of thing scares me more than a mobility cage.

broncosteven
03-30-2011, 12:49 PM
Brain research is farther along than Joe Schmoe realizes.

Just wait to see what happens over the next 20 years.

On somethings but they are still a long way off from understanding nerves and pain. Closer? Yes but not quite there. Time had an issue on pain on 3/7/2011, they are close to finding a gene that can bind(?) with the body's natural occuring opoid to increase the effect and cut down pain but it could make Crack or Meth look like candy so there are a whole new can of worms being opened with each new discovery.

I do prefer the can of worms over no advancements though, you guys sound young and realitively healthy but you will want the advancements when your old or hurt in an accident caused by no fault of your own, hell even if you got hurt playing jackass in the back yard!

Quoydogs
03-30-2011, 12:54 PM
I wouldn't say I'm young ( 35) but It's just not a good Idea to be messing with mother nature. Cloning scares the hell out of me and this well this is just well it could go very very wrong.

The biggest thing is this is not a what if anymore they have done it.

broncosteven
03-30-2011, 01:04 PM
I wouldn't say I'm young ( 35) but It's just not a good Idea to be messing with mother nature. Cloning scares the hell out of me and this well this is just well it could go very very wrong.

The biggest thing is this is not a what if anymore they have done it.

I agree that outright cloning a full human is wrong but cloning an organ or nerve would be great.

I saw a story somewhere (here?) about someone printing a 3D organ on stage at some science conference recently. It would be nice to be able to swap out a bad heart or liver etc that wouldn't be rejected by the body.

How far are we from those types of transplants becoming a daily occurance? Dunno.

epicSocialism4tw
03-30-2011, 01:05 PM
I'm thinking more like 5 years.

Just think what happens when you combine this with cloning.

Cloning is further off, but what you'll be able to expect is to submit a swab from your mouth and get back a replacement organ or limb.

That One Guy
03-30-2011, 01:08 PM
I've wondered why it took so long to get the avatar concept going. I thought we'd be working on fighting wars by proxy already.

epicSocialism4tw
03-30-2011, 01:09 PM
On somethings but they are still a long way off from understanding nerves and pain. Closer? Yes but not quite there. Time had an issue on pain on 3/7/2011, they are close to finding a gene that can bind(?) with the body's natural occuring opoid to increase the effect and cut down pain but it could make Crack or Meth look like candy so there are a whole new can of worms being opened with each new discovery.

I do prefer the can of worms over no advancements though, you guys sound young and realitively healthy but you will want the advancements when your old or hurt in an accident caused by no fault of your own, hell even if you got hurt playing jackass in the back yard!

We understand nerves and pain quite a bit. What we dont understand is how to repair or regenerate neurons. There's some work that suggests that stem cell research could be an answer, that is if you can get over the whole "we harvest stem cells from dead kids like a farmer harvests corn" thing and start the process of utilizing geneticallly specific strains of stem cells, removing their DNA, and replacing it with that of a patient. Thats alot trickier than it sounds.

Your nervous system automatically develops new pathways, but if a critical set of neurons is damaged, you cant bridge that gap anymore. Hence no cures for Parkinsons, Huntingtons, mechanical CNS injury, peripheral neuropathy, etc.

That One Guy
03-30-2011, 01:10 PM
I agree that outright cloning a full human is wrong but cloning an organ or nerve would be great.

I saw a story somewhere (here?) about someone printing a 3D organ on stage at some science conference recently. It would be nice to be able to swap out a bad heart or liver etc that wouldn't be rejected by the body.

How far are we from those types of transplants becoming a daily occurance? Dunno.

One of the things I fear most in the world is the pursuit of eternal life. I truly think being able to clone organs will lead to being able to clone damn-near anything and when people don't die, I fear for how the world will turn out.

gyldenlove
03-30-2011, 02:05 PM
One of the things I fear most in the world is the pursuit of eternal life. I truly think being able to clone organs will lead to being able to clone damn-near anything and when people don't die, I fear for how the world will turn out.

Nah, your somatic cells die off with time. There are many other ways of dying than organ failure and there is still the matter of surgery, even if you can make a new heart doesn't mean you can insert it trouble free.

If you are worried about eternal life being a problem you want to look critically at work done in telomer research and DNA regeneration, these are the people who are really messing with life extension on a serious scale. There are people who have managed to make mice with progessed senescence recover to youthful states including improved organ function, circulation, eye sight and hair growth.

broncosteven
03-30-2011, 02:05 PM
One of the things I fear most in the world is the pursuit of eternal life. I truly think being able to clone organs will lead to being able to clone damn-near anything and when people don't die, I fear for how the world will turn out.

I don't worry about that so much, at some point the brain and spinal cord would need to be replaced because it is organic and would eventually decay I doubt we as humans ever live forever, hell strokes, aneurysm's, some heart failures happen so quick that they would be hard to ever recover from no matter what the tech.

I do have an issue with downloading my spirit into a database and becoming a goo like Kurzweil invisions will happen with the human race.

That One Guy
03-30-2011, 04:06 PM
Nah, your somatic cells die off with time. There are many other ways of dying than organ failure and there is still the matter of surgery, even if you can make a new heart doesn't mean you can insert it trouble free.

If you are worried about eternal life being a problem you want to look critically at work done in telomer research and DNA regeneration, these are the people who are really messing with life extension on a serious scale. There are people who have managed to make mice with progessed senescence recover to youthful states including improved organ function, circulation, eye sight and hair growth.

Wow, I didn't know they'd actually gotten anywhere on the latter. I understand for the most part that cloning organs can only go so far but it's all a matter of time and with every step of progress, more researchers are going to be focusing on the ultimate finish line. I think it's just a matter of time until we get there but I wouldn't want to live in such a world.

That One Guy
03-30-2011, 04:12 PM
I don't worry about that so much, at some point the brain and spinal cord would need to be replaced because it is organic and would eventually decay I doubt we as humans ever live forever, hell strokes, aneurysm's, some heart failures happen so quick that they would be hard to ever recover from no matter what the tech.

I do have an issue with downloading my spirit into a database and becoming a goo like Kurzweil invisions will happen with the human race.

Well just like he said, we're really only limited at this point by a shortening chromosome. For all the advances we've made, it's only a matter of time until that can be overcome. Once that happens, the cells basically wouldn't age.

Chris
03-30-2011, 04:43 PM
Yes, 20 years.

It will be a different world.

Please elaborate.

Chris
03-30-2011, 04:45 PM
Well just like he said, we're really only limited at this point by a shortening chromosome. For all the advances we've made, it's only a matter of time until that can be overcome. Once that happens, the cells basically wouldn't age.

Is that going to happen in my lifetime if I'm in my 20s? Want to live forever kthx.

Arkie
03-30-2011, 05:20 PM
Nah, your somatic cells die off with time. There are many other ways of dying than organ failure and there is still the matter of surgery, even if you can make a new heart doesn't mean you can insert it trouble free.

If you are worried about eternal life being a problem you want to look critically at work done in telomer research and DNA regeneration, these are the people who are really messing with life extension on a serious scale. There are people who have managed to make mice with progessed senescence recover to youthful states including improved organ function, circulation, eye sight and hair growth.

Living forever
http://www.kurzweilai.net/the-law-of-accelerating-returns

Once brain porting technology has been refined and fully developed, will this enable us to live forever? The answer depends on what we mean by living and dying. Consider what we do today with our personal computer files. When we change from one personal computer to a less obsolete model, we don’t throw all our files away; rather we copy them over to the new hardware. Although our software files do not necessary continue their existence forever, the longevity of our personal computer software is completely separate and disconnected from the hardware that it runs on. When it comes to our personal mind file, however, when our human hardware crashes, the software of our lives dies with it. However, this will not continue to be the case when we have the means to store and restore the thousands of trillions of bytes of information represented in the pattern that we call our brains.

The longevity of one’s mind file will not be dependent, therefore, on the continued viability of any particular hardware medium. Ultimately software-based humans, albeit vastly extended beyond the severe limitations of humans as we know them today, will live out on the web, projecting bodies whenever they need or want them, including virtual bodies in diverse realms of virtual reality, holographically projected bodies, physical bodies comprised of nanobot swarms, and other forms of nanotechnology.

A software-based human will be free, therefore, from the constraints of any particular thinking medium. Today, we are each confined to a mere hundred trillion connections, but humans at the end of the twenty-first century can grow their thinking and thoughts without limit. We may regard this as a form of immortality, although it is worth pointing out that data and information do not necessarily last forever. Although not dependent on the viability of the hardware it runs on, the longevity of information depends on its relevance, utility, and accessibility. If you’ve ever tried to retrieve information from an obsolete form of data storage in an old obscure format (e.g., a reel of magnetic tape from a 1970 minicomputer), you will understand the challenges in keeping software viable. However, if we are diligent in maintaining our mind file, keeping current backups, and porting to current formats and mediums, then a form of immortality can be attained, at least for software-based humans. Our mind file–our personality, skills, memories–all of that is lost today when our biological hardware crashes. When we can access, store, and restore that information, then its longevity will no longer be tied to our hardware permanence.

Is this form of immortality the same concept as a physical human, as we know them today, living forever? In one sense it is, because as I pointed out earlier, our contemporary selves are not a constant collection of matter either. Only our pattern of matter and energy persists, and even that gradually changes. Similarly, it will be the pattern of a software human that persists and develops and changes gradually.

But is that person based on my mind file, who migrates across many computational substrates, and who outlives any particular thinking medium, really me? We come back to the same questions of consciousness and identity, issues that have been debated since the Platonic dialogues. As we go through the twenty-first century, these will not remain polite philosophical debates, but will be confronted as vital, practical, political, and legal issues.

A related question is “is death desirable?” A great deal of our effort goes into avoiding it. We make extraordinary efforts to delay it, and indeed often consider its intrusion a tragic event. Yet we might find it hard to live without it. We consider death as giving meaning to our lives. It gives importance and value to time. Time could become meaningless if there were too much of it.

epicSocialism4tw
03-30-2011, 06:12 PM
Nah, your somatic cells die off with time. There are many other ways of dying than organ failure and there is still the matter of surgery, even if you can make a new heart doesn't mean you can insert it trouble free.

If you are worried about eternal life being a problem you want to look critically at work done in telomer research and DNA regeneration, these are the people who are really messing with life extension on a serious scale. There are people who have managed to make mice with progessed senescence recover to youthful states including improved organ function, circulation, eye sight and hair growth.

One of my colleagues works on telomerases. Fascinating.

What's scary is that you could in effect, once repair mechanisms are developed, send engineered enzymes down a strand of DNA that counter the effects of mutation and degradation. For those that do not know, the degredation of the tips of your DNA is what causes aging in your cells, and thus your aging. You could also cut and splice DNA to spit out character-specific traits.

Imagine a world where you design yourself in a lab, apply a gene therapy, and voila...in a matter of months you become an Adonis with perfect features. You have a govt agency that determines who gets access, who gets certain features, etc.

Chris
03-30-2011, 06:18 PM
One of my colleagues works on telomerases. Fascinating.

What's scary is that you could in effect, once repair mechanisms are developed, send engineered enzymes down a strand of DNA that counter the effects of mutation and degradation. For those that do not know, the degredation of the tips of your DNA is what causes aging in your cells, and thus your aging. You could also cut and splice DNA to spit out character-specific traits.

Imagine a world where you design yourself in a lab, apply a gene therapy, and voila...in a matter of months you become an Adonis with perfect features. You have a govt agency that determines who gets access, who gets certain features, etc.

Gattaca basically. A very prescient film seeing as it was produced just as we started looking into the science of aging.

I do endurance training on a regular basis... very hard endurance training... hopefully my telomeres are still pretty long ;)

That One Guy
03-30-2011, 06:21 PM
One of my colleagues works on telomerases. Fascinating.

What's scary is that you could in effect, once repair mechanisms are developed, send engineered enzymes down a strand of DNA that counter the effects of mutation and degradation. For those that do not know, the degredation of the tips of your DNA is what causes aging in your cells, and thus your aging. You could also cut and splice DNA to spit out character-specific traits.

Imagine a world where you design yourself in a lab, apply a gene therapy, and voila...in a matter of months you become an Adonis with perfect features. You have a govt agency that determines who gets access, who gets certain features, etc.

No. Thank. You.

It's sad too because the research and development is fascinating and a testament to the capabilities of the human mind but there's some things that should stay sacred.

The thing that'll cause the issue though is that it'll happen gradually and continuously until it creates a real problem or it's no more criticized than common medicine is in today's society.

houghtam
03-30-2011, 06:28 PM
No. Thank. You.

It's sad too because the research and development is fascinating and a testament to the capabilities of the human mind but there's some things that should stay sacred.

The thing that'll cause the issue though is that it'll happen gradually and continuously until it creates a real problem or it's no more criticized than common medicine is in today's society.

I hear a lot of "X should stay sacred" when it comes to these type of things, but no one can ever explain why.

Care to elaborate?

If what I "am" is what I think, feel, believe, etc. then what is the difference if my consciousness resides in the body of a 400 lb pastey white guy, a 250 lb body builder, or some computer server somewhere?

epicSocialism4tw
03-30-2011, 06:37 PM
I don't worry about that so much, at some point the brain and spinal cord would need to be replaced because it is organic and would eventually decay

Your brilliant body already knows how to manage isotopes and radioactive decay. Your DNA is literally a brilliant mechanism that replenishes your raw materials every day in nearly every tissue in your body. Even in some bones. Unfortunately, your nervous tissue is not one that gets replenished.

I doubt we as humans ever live forever, hell strokes, aneurysm's, some heart failures happen so quick that they would be hard to ever recover from no matter what the tech.

Nothing can stop circumstance. It is beyond control and mathematically so daunting that it would take a computer that could analyze entire universes.

epicSocialism4tw
03-30-2011, 06:40 PM
No. Thank. You.

It's sad too because the research and development is fascinating and a testament to the capabilities of the human mind but there's some things that should stay sacred.

The thing that'll cause the issue though is that it'll happen gradually and continuously until it creates a real problem or it's no more criticized than common medicine is in today's society.

People are so greedy and narcissistic (see Botox, boob jobs, etc) that this service will be created and will change the world.

Humans no longer have the ethical or moral gumption to withstand such gaudy fads.

Chris
03-30-2011, 07:09 PM
Stem cells can help with nerves regenerating right? Possibly?

Willynowei
03-30-2011, 07:13 PM
humans are genetically programed to die. Your cells literally have a time bomb built in that decides its time to start aging and die off. To this day I haven't heard of a good explanation for this, personally I think its the biggest evidence of "intelligent design" that science has ever provided.

There is the cancer explanation, but honestly, it sounds like a stretch to me. It doesn't make sense that evolution would create a death gene.

epicSocialism4tw
03-30-2011, 07:17 PM
Stem cells can help with nerves regenerating right? Possibly?

Yes. Stem cells are like school children. They're being prepared, but they havent been prepared for anything specifically yet. Taking a stem cell and treating it with different chemicals is kind of like taking those school children and placing them in college on a degree plan...they start refining themselves to have specializations that are appropriate in different tissues throughout the body.

The problem with stem cell research right now is that we have no ethically responsible way to harvest them.

The next big break in medicine (probably a nobel prize) will be when we refine the ability to grow and divide stem cells in vitro.

broncosteven
03-30-2011, 08:13 PM
Yes. Stem cells are like school children. They're being prepared, but they havent been prepared for anything specifically yet. Taking a stem cell and treating it with different chemicals is kind of like taking those school children and placing them in college on a degree plan...they start refining themselves to have specializations that are appropriate in different tissues throughout the body.

The problem with stem cell research right now is that we have no ethically responsible way to harvest them.

The next big break in medicine (probably a nobel prize) will be when we refine the ability to grow and divide stem cells in vitro.

Can't happen fast enough for me!

rmsanger
03-30-2011, 08:23 PM
9.0 + Tsunami can still take out skynet!

That One Guy
03-30-2011, 08:25 PM
humans are genetically programed to die. Your cells literally have a time bomb built in that decides its time to start aging and die off. To this day I haven't heard of a good explanation for this, personally I think its the biggest evidence of "intelligent design" that science has ever provided.

There is the cancer explanation, but honestly, it sounds like a stretch to me. It doesn't make sense that evolution would create a death gene.

The cancer one is the only one I've heard. I believe the explanation was by degrading the gene over time, you continually limit the body's exposure to cancerous developments. Limiting the number of genes that could develop cancer MAAAAAAAAAAYBEEEEEEEEEE makes sense but I know nowhere enough about it and would have to ask Epic or one of those more intelligent on the topic to explain better.

That has always confused me as to why the body would develop such a mechanism. Surely there's a reason and, for me, the interesting part is that it makes sense for a long lived creature like humans to have such an issue to avoid cancer but what about creatures with exponentially shorter life spans? Why wouldn't we all have a comparable life span? You'd think fruit flies would eventually have a mutation that allowed them to live longer than two weeks or whatever. Only thing I can think of is if all species lose the power to reproduce before their longevity timeline comes up so the mutation for extended longevity has no added evolutionary advantage but still doesn't really explain why it got so short in some. Maybe I'm working backwards and we all had a two week life span at one point?

epicSocialism4tw
03-30-2011, 09:25 PM
Can't happen fast enough for me!

Its coming. Give it time.

Maybe if the uber wealthy would quit trying to dominate the world with their garbage political engines like the Open Society Institute, they would instead choose to invest in people by putting more money in this kind of research.

This science is still relatively young, and these things move fast. There is reason to have hope. Prayer works too.

broncolife
03-30-2011, 09:46 PM
One other point I would like to make to those like TGN who think the Space race and NASA are worthless money pits: Nicoleis said near the end of the interview that the Apollo program was what inspired him to become a scientist. I love how he said that he essentially became a scientist at an early age (6-9?) watching the space race.

We need more "moon shots" to continue to inspire young people.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=2290
The moons in this thread inspired me:)

broncosteven
04-04-2011, 09:19 PM
Check this out!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/ct-live-0404-opera-powers-review-20110403,0,6793797.column

I am actually interested in seeing this.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-04-2011, 09:27 PM
All your base are belong to us.

beardedwonder
04-05-2011, 02:26 AM
Personally I'm more worried about the impending zombie apocalypse

Hotwheelz
04-05-2011, 05:05 AM
Joke if you want but this is some scary stuff. You just should not screw with mother nature she's a real b****.

You are not a very smart person. Don't confuse science with science fiction. The robots are not taking over and we aren't creating murderous mutants. These exoskeletons are, in principle, than glasses. Except this technology has the potential to completely change MY life and be able to be completely independent. It's people like you that hold back research that could cure disseases like mine. Guess what? Nature ****s up, a lot. There's nothing wrong with trying to fix it.

Now kindly shut the **** up unless you're gonna make educated and rational arguments.

epicSocialism4tw
04-05-2011, 05:17 AM
Personally I'm more worried about the impending zombie apocalypse

I thought that happened in Wisconsin a few weeks back.
http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/child-zombie.jpg

orinjkrush
04-05-2011, 07:45 AM
the uber wealthy will make living longer uber expensive. so pay or die.
imagine paris hilton or hugh hefner living for 500 years? oops, maybe hugh already has.