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View Full Version : Patrick Peterson may not be book smart but he is football smart and hes gonna to be an elite player


KevinJames
03-23-2011, 03:59 AM
Skeptical ? Watch this video (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81ee012d/Back-to-school)
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81ee012d/Back-to-school

Wonderlic scores don't effect your ability to play any defensive back position. It really shouldn't be a red flag either as a CB in the NFL. People that keep knocking the guy assuming he doesn't know how to digest defensive plays, and disguise coverages just because he scored low on the wonderlic, give me a break. We should either go Dareus or Peterson whoever fox feels is the better overall defensive player.

There is no better way to help a young inexperienced d-line than having 2 spectacular cover corners and with Cox in on nickle packages, its going to be very dangerous throwing at any of our corners. here is some more of Patrick Peterson http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81edf85c/Peterson-s-path in studio talking to NFL Network, doesn't come off dumb at all

So maybe hes not as smart as a guy like Champ but he certainly isn't dumb in the football department and if you want a high character guy, draft Peterson or Dareus. I got feeling the Panthers will either go with Dareus or Peterson, and if that happens we need to grab whoever they don't take from those two.

ChampBailey24
03-23-2011, 06:26 AM
get him!

Cleo McDowell
03-23-2011, 07:23 AM
sounds like the case of Alvin Mack

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_uv9rbmjljHI/SMAFXsmdZuI/AAAAAAAABFE/W6eTg04mzC0/s320/mackkilleverybody.jpg

TheReverend
03-23-2011, 07:43 AM
sounds like the case of Alvin Mack

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_uv9rbmjljHI/SMAFXsmdZuI/AAAAAAAABFE/W6eTg04mzC0/s320/mackkilleverybody.jpg

Repped for your the Program reference.

El Guapo
03-23-2011, 08:04 AM
Patrick Peterson may not be book smart but he is football smart and hes gonna to be an elite player

Did he have any part in writing that subject line?

RhymesayersDU
03-23-2011, 08:40 AM
I don't care about his wonderlic; I care that we've had the best CB for the past decade and have zero to show for it.

Get. Better. Up. Front.

RhymesayersDU
03-23-2011, 08:41 AM
Repped for your the Program reference.

What's your assignment?

Kill everybody.

ghostofjosh
03-23-2011, 08:42 AM
I don't care about his wonderlic; I care that we've had the best CB for the past decade and have zero to show for it.

Get. Better. Up. Front.

This

tsiguy96
03-23-2011, 08:56 AM
I don't care about his wonderlic; I care that we've had the best CB for the past decade and have zero to show for it.

Get. Better. Up. Front.

crazy that people dont get this. i dont think anyone here has doubted the ceiling of peterson. lets say hes as good as champ in his prime, what will that get us? exactly where we were before, an amazing CB and later round talent and FA trying to form a dline.

DarkHorse
03-23-2011, 09:05 AM
I agree, with the 2nd overall pick we should roll the dice on one of the top 3 or 4 d-lineman. Each of which has question marks like - motor, one year wonder?, injury, drive, etc...... not too mention d-line has the most busts in top 10 picks in the history of the game according to the guys on the NFL network.

Yep, roll the dice with our #2 overall pick. Skip considering the "safe" pick who could be groomed to take over for Bailey. Skip using our 2nd round pick(s) on d-linemen in a draft that is 2 or 3 rounds deep with d-line talent.

HAT
03-23-2011, 09:09 AM
crazy that people dont get this. i dont think anyone here has doubted the ceiling of peterson. lets say hes as good as champ in his prime, what will that get us? exactly where we were before, an amazing CB and later round talent and FA trying to form a dline.

Ummmm....No.

That will get us 2 amazing CB's and 1, maybe 2 first round talent DL-men that slipped to 36 & 46 because the position is so deep this year.

RhymesayersDU
03-23-2011, 09:20 AM
I agree, with the 2nd overall pick we should roll the dice on one of the top 3 or 4 d-lineman. Each of which has question marks like - motor, one year wonder?, injury, drive, etc...... not too mention d-line has the most busts in top 10 picks in the history of the game according to the guys on the NFL network.

Yep, roll the dice with our #2 overall pick. Skip considering the "safe" pick who could be groomed to take over for Bailey. Skip using our 2nd round pick(s) on d-linemen in a draft that is 2 or 3 rounds deep with d-line talent.

So wait... those guys have red flags, but Peterson and his ridiculous Wonderlic doesn't?

Whatever supports your agenda, I guess.

oubronco
03-23-2011, 09:26 AM
We addressed the o-line last year now lets address the d-line

You win in the trenches people

teknic
03-23-2011, 09:39 AM
I wanted Peterson before because I felt he was the best overall player coming out and the safest pick, but the low wonderlic score did change my perception of him being a safe pick.

I either want Dareus or Von Miller at #2, or to trade back and use the picks gained to move back into the first round and take two good defensive players.

If the Broncos decide to draft a defensive back in the first round still, I feel Amukamara in the 10-15 range is a better value than Peterson at #2. So unless the Broncos trade back, they should fix the front 7 with their top pick.

FantomForce
03-23-2011, 09:40 AM
I really feel like this is Ed Reed all over again, please don't let us pass him up

DarkHorse
03-23-2011, 09:47 AM
So wait... those guys have red flags, but Peterson and his ridiculous Wonderlic doesn't?

Whatever supports your agenda, I guess.

Just saying I think I would take the guy that 98% of the paid 'experts' consider the safest pick in the draft over using the #2 pick on a crapshoot position like d-line in a draft that has talent 2 rounds deep on the d-line.


I'd rather not be the Browns, Bengals or Lions and known for drafting yet another bust d-lineman.


So you think it's better to use the #2 on:

A guy that possibly has a dinged knee along with the one year wonder tag? Bowers

A guy that played JUCO because of academics, has questions about his desire to play once he's paid, has a tendency to attract yellow flags - but is dominant when he wants to be? Fairley

A guy that was suspended for an entire year for being shady, but put up great numbers one year? Quinn

A guy that seems like the best d-line pick but also had shady dealings in college? Dareus

All of those over a guy that is considered the best prospect in the draft but he can't seem to spell his name correctly? BAH

Again, i'm just saying that there's no 'sure-fire' gotta have that guy on the d-line in the top 10 this year. Not one of them are considered a can't miss pick. As much as I know we need a defensive tackle i'm still not comfortable gambling the #2 pick when there are guys going to be available in the 2nd round.

At this point in time I really don't even want us picking at #2 because of the risk of busting out there - especially with the d-line.

DarkHorse
03-23-2011, 09:53 AM
So wait... those guys have red flags, but Peterson and his ridiculous Wonderlic doesn't?

Whatever supports your agenda, I guess.

Not sure what you mean by supporting my agenda? I don't represent Peterson, I have no ties to the Broncos, LSU or any company that deals with football at all.

?

I don't expect much out of any rookie out there, so I have no expectations like everyone else that we're going to have some great 10 year Bronco that makes the Pro Bowl every year just because he's a #2 overall pick.

I fully expect the d-line to be Dumervil, Ayers, Vickerson and who knows.

HAT
03-23-2011, 09:55 AM
I wanted Peterson before because I felt he was the best overall player coming out and the safest pick, but the low wonderlic score did change my perception of him being a safe pick.

I either want Dareus or Von Miller at #2, or to trade back and use the picks gained to move back into the first round and take two good defensive players.

If the Broncos decide to draft a defensive back in the first round still, I feel Amukamara in the 10-15 range is a better value than Peterson at #2. So unless the Broncos trade back, they should fix the front 7 with their top pick.

No way Prince gets past Dallas at #9.

My first choice is PP, but if they go DL then I hope they don't even sniff CB until #67 or later....And only then if somebody falls.

I'd like to see either.....

CB (Peterson)
DL
DL/LB
LB/TE/RB/S/OL

OR

DT (Dareus)
DL/S
DL/LB/S
OL/RB/CB/TE

NFLBRONCO
03-23-2011, 10:00 AM
crazy that people dont get this. i dont think anyone here has doubted the ceiling of peterson. lets say hes as good as champ in his prime, what will that get us? exactly where we were before, an amazing CB and later round talent and FA trying to form a dline.

Well actually we do understand but, we also feel we want a stud in alot of levels of our D. I also agree that regardless the route at 2 or 5 we must nail the pick and get it right. I'd gladly take Peterson or Dareus at 2 and not regret it a bit. No matter the route it's going to take several drafts to build this D not just 1 top player. Imo Denver would need to draft Bowers Dareus and Peterson to vastly improve this D. As a fan of course a DE DT DT top 3 picks would rock but, if they disappoint we will still need help on DL and have not improved any other level of our D.

I myself believe Patrick Peterson is best player in draft and would take him. Dareus is my 2nd player but, bigger need but, bigger risk too. I'd gladly take another Champ or Ed Reed.

worm
03-23-2011, 10:03 AM
Peterson is capable of being a four tool player (CB, S, PR, KR). He could make an immediate impact in our kickoff return game.

....wait a minute.

oubronco
03-23-2011, 10:05 AM
Just saying I think I would take the guy that 98% of the paid 'experts' consider the safest pick in the draft over using the #2 pick on a crapshoot position like d-line in a draft that has talent 2 rounds deep on the d-line.


I'd rather not be the Browns, Bengals or Lions and known for drafting yet another bust d-lineman.


So you think it's better to use the #2 on:

A guy that possibly has a dinged knee along with the one year wonder tag? Bowers

A guy that played JUCO because of academics, has questions about his desire to play once he's paid, has a tendency to attract yellow flags - but is dominant when he wants to be? Fairley

A guy that was suspended for an entire year for being shady, but put up great numbers one year? Quinn

A guy that seems like the best d-line pick but also had shady dealings in college? Dareus
All of those over a guy that is considered the best prospect in the draft but he can't seem to spell his name correctly? BAH

Again, i'm just saying that there's no 'sure-fire' gotta have that guy on the d-line in the top 10 this year. Not one of them are considered a can't miss pick. As much as I know we need a defensive tackle i'm still not comfortable gambling the #2 pick when there are guys going to be available in the 2nd round.

At this point in time I really don't even want us picking at #2 because of the risk of busting out there - especially with the d-line.

Link?

Prodigal19
03-23-2011, 10:06 AM
Skeptical ? Watch this video (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81ee012d/Back-to-school)
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81ee012d/Back-to-school

Wonderlic scores don't effect your ability to play any defensive back position. It really shouldn't be a red flag either as a CB in the NFL. People that keep knocking the guy assuming he doesn't know how to digest defensive plays, and disguise coverages just because he scored low on the wonderlic, give me a break. We should either go Dareus or Peterson whoever fox feels is the better overall defensive player.

There is no better way to help a young inexperienced d-line than having 2 spectacular cover corners and with Cox in on nickle packages, its going to be very dangerous throwing at any of our corners. here is some more of Patrick Peterson http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81edf85c/Peterson-s-path in studio talking to NFL Network, doesn't come off dumb at all

So maybe hes not as smart as a guy like Champ but he certainly isn't dumb in the football department and if you want a high character guy, draft Peterson or Dareus. I got feeling the Panthers will either go with Dareus or Peterson, and if that happens we need to grab whoever they don't take from those two.
While I dont believe that low wonderlic scores are really a knock against a CB, I would hardly consider that NFL network video a good gauge of how smart he is. They aren't going allow Peterson to embarrass himself on national TV by not knowing the answers. The entire segment was most likely scripted to some degree.

DarkHorse
03-23-2011, 10:25 AM
Link?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5396236

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2010/07/alabamas-marcel-dareus-the-latest-to-be-investigated-for-possible-illegal-benefits/1

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2010-09-02/alabamas-dareus-suspended-for-first-two-games

http://www.bamachannel.com/article/marcell_dareus_may_have_broke_ncaa_rules_investiga tion_underway

rugbythug
03-23-2011, 10:27 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5396236

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2010/07/alabamas-marcel-dareus-the-latest-to-be-investigated-for-possible-illegal-benefits/1

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2010-09-02/alabamas-dareus-suspended-for-first-two-games

http://www.bamachannel.com/article/marcell_dareus_may_have_broke_ncaa_rules_investiga tion_underway

If the ncaa ss cleared him he is fine by me.

DarkHorse
03-23-2011, 10:28 AM
Peterson is capable of being a four tool player (CB, S, PR, KR). He could make an immediate impact in our kickoff return game.

....wait a minute.

lol

NFLBRONCO
03-23-2011, 10:29 AM
I honestly think all this is moot. I expect us to trade down.

tsiguy96
03-23-2011, 10:31 AM
Well actually we do understand but, we also feel we want a stud in alot of levels of our D. I also agree that regardless the route at 2 or 5 we must nail the pick and get it right. I'd gladly take Peterson or Dareus at 2 and not regret it a bit. No matter the route it's going to take several drafts to build this D not just 1 top player. Imo Denver would need to draft Bowers Dareus and Peterson to vastly improve this D. As a fan of course a DE DT DT top 3 picks would rock but, if they disappoint we will still need help on DL and have not improved any other level of our D.

I myself believe Patrick Peterson is best player in draft and would take him. Dareus is my 2nd player but, bigger need but, bigger risk too. I'd gladly take another Champ or Ed Reed.

thats nice, i would love to have someone with champs abilities on this team for the next 10 years. but at end of the day,a great, top 3 corner does not make enough of an effect to pass up the opportunity for an impact DL. IF you have a great DL or rotation of guys capable of getting pressure with exotic blitz schemes, like early 09 or the modern day jets, and add a great corner as well, you are in for a great defense. we dont have a DL, thus dont have the luxury of using the #2 pick on a CB.

DarkHorse
03-23-2011, 10:32 AM
If the ncaa ss cleared him he is fine by me.

Me as well I guess, doesn't seem that big of a deal but it just goes to show that each and every one of the top prospects has a black mark on them in some way shape or form.

I'm sure Bowers will find a doctor that will clear him as well. Pretty sure that Fairley can find some people out there that will vouche for his character and somehow vouche for his drive to win once he's paid too.

Seems like a low wonderlic score is worse than a knee injury, character issues, one year wonder play and NCAA suspensions.

However that works.

Don't care who we draft at #2 as long as we're not embarrassed.

rugbythug
03-23-2011, 10:34 AM
Me as well I guess, doesn't seem that big of a deal but it just goes to show that each and every one of the top prospects has a black mark on them in some way shape or form.

I'm sure Bowers will find a doctor that will clear him as well. Pretty sure that Fairley can find some people out there that will vouche for his character and somehow vouche for his drive to win once he's paid too.

Seems like a low wonderlic score is worse than a knee injury, character issues, one year wonder play and NCAA suspensions.

However that works.

Don't care who we draft at #2 as long as we're not embarrassed.

You can't fix stupid.

Smiling Assassin27
03-23-2011, 10:35 AM
I think this defense must be top 10 against the run. Late in games, rb's were ripping off chunks on our defense and run defense is less scheme and more winning one on one battles and MAKING TACKLES.

I would not pass on Peterson due to his wonderlic score, but I would consider that his run support is one aspect of his play that has garnered criticism--both recognizing and wrapping up. I don't think we need Deion Sanders, and our efforts could be better served drafting the best run stuffer of the DL crop. Fairley gets behind the LOS better than any other DL I've seen.

DarkHorse
03-23-2011, 10:35 AM
thats nice, i would love to have someone with champs abilities on this team for the next 10 years. but at end of the day,a great, top 3 corner does not make enough of an effect to pass up the opportunity for an impact DL. IF you have a great DL or rotation of guys capable of getting pressure with exotic blitz schemes, like early 09 or the modern day jets, and add a great corner as well, you are in for a great defense. we dont have a DL, thus dont have the luxury of using the #2 pick on a CB.

Dumervil, Ayers, Vickerson so far on d-line.


I'm leaning towards the trade down scenario - I hate us having the #2 pick, too much risk especially considering most of the top guys are d-linemen and history has shown that to be the position that produces the most bust picks in the top 10.

HAT
03-23-2011, 10:36 AM
I really feel like this is Ed Reed all over again, please don't let us pass him up

Yup. The good news is that I think Elway has that sense too. Reading between all of the available lines, I really think PP would be his choice if it was entirely up to him.

He seems to be getting his feet wet by going the safest route....See: John Fox hire. While some would argue that DL would be the safest pick because it is Denver's biggest need....I think Elway is leaning toward BPA=Safest.

DarkHorse
03-23-2011, 10:40 AM
You can't fix stupid.

Correct, but when has his low wonderlic ever showed up on the playing field?


Why should I care that this guy can't figure out how to open the front door to his house or have the mental capability to make a grilled cheese?


He can play football......well enough to be considered the best prospect in this years draft.

I still don't like him at #2 but he's the guy I want them to take if they do stay at #2........

or Dareus.........

Hmmm, I have no idea what I want them to draft.

CEH
03-23-2011, 10:42 AM
In my way of thinking

It's one thing to be a press coverage corner and stick to your man but ask a CB to play off or even safety and make some quick decisions regarding coverage shemes then I think smarts does play a role.

How much I'm not sure ask Bill Belichek or John Fox

tsiguy96
03-23-2011, 10:48 AM
Dumervil, Ayers, Vickerson so far on d-line.


I'm leaning towards the trade down scenario - I hate us having the #2 pick, too much risk especially considering most of the top guys are d-linemen and history has shown that to be the position that produces the most bust picks in the top 10.

i think we are set at DE with doom and ayers for most downs, along with a rotational FA or re-sign bannan. but we are very, very far from set at DT, and cant keep recycling the same guys or player acquisition methods (FA, late round picks) hoping to get different results.

OBF1
03-23-2011, 10:56 AM
I think this defense must be top 10 against the run. Late in games, rb's were ripping off chunks on our defense and run defense is less scheme and more winning one on one battles and MAKING TACKLES.

I would not pass on Peterson due to his wonderlic score, but I would consider that his run support is one aspect of his play that has garnered criticism--both recognizing and wrapping up. I don't think we need Deion Sanders, and our efforts could be better served drafting the best run stuffer of the DL crop. Fairley gets behind the LOS better than any other DL I've seen.

We agree,

Signed,
Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

HAT
03-23-2011, 11:00 AM
I honestly think all this is moot. I expect us to trade down.

Walt's latest mock has Gabbert to Caro & Newton to Buffalo. (With excellent reasoning) :wiggle:

Man, if Caro does go QB #1....I really hope Cinci, SF or Tennessee come calling for #2. I wouldn't want Denver to trade back past #8 though. Assuming 2 QB's + AJ Green go top 7......

#8 guarantees one of...Peterson, Dareus, Fairley, Miller or Bowers.

I would bust a nut if Cincy was the one to get nervous and jump Buffalo for a QB though. That would get extra picks AND assure Denver Peterson or Dareus at #4.

Smiling Assassin27
03-23-2011, 11:02 AM
We agree,

Signed,
Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.


Point taken. However, the defenses that give these guys the most trouble are defenses like the Steelers, Ravens, and Chargers who have average CB's but are top 5 run stoppers and pressure qb's all day long.

TheReverend
03-23-2011, 11:16 AM
I don't care about his wonderlic; I care that we've had the best CB for the past decade and have zero to show for it.

Get. Better. Up. Front.

crazy that people dont get this. i dont think anyone here has doubted the ceiling of peterson. lets say hes as good as champ in his prime, what will that get us? exactly where we were before, an amazing CB and later round talent and FA trying to form a dline.

Do you guys not remember or just didn't notice that Champs best year put in the AFCCG?

Somehow forgot all those redzone INTs that won games for us by taking points off the board?

Especially his redzone pick in the endzone vs NE?

I am baffled to say the least.

TheReverend
03-23-2011, 11:17 AM
thats nice, i would love to have someone with champs abilities on this team for the next 10 years. but at end of the day,a great, top 3 corner does not make enough of an effect to pass up the opportunity for an impact DL. IF you have a great DL or rotation of guys capable of getting pressure with exotic blitz schemes, like early 09 or the modern day jets, and add a great corner as well, you are in for a great defense. we dont have a DL, thus dont have the luxury of using the #2 pick on a CB.

:spit:

HAT
03-23-2011, 11:19 AM
Point taken. However, the defenses that give these guys the most trouble are defenses like the Steelers, Ravens, and Chargers who have average CB's but are top 5 run stoppers and pressure qb's all day long.

Steelers & Ravens may have average CB's but not average secondaries, thanks to Reed & Polamalu. Those guys make their CB's better.

How much better would Champ AND Peterson make Denver's safeties? Maybe we get 2009 Dawkins back instead of the 2010 version?

Add a meat head like Paea or Taylor at #36 and pass rushing DE or LB at #46 to compliment Doom, Ayers & Vick and I think the D is much better off than adding Dareus at #2 and then another DL + CB/S in the 2nd round.

oubronco
03-23-2011, 12:06 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5396236

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2010/07/alabamas-marcel-dareus-the-latest-to-be-investigated-for-possible-illegal-benefits/1

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2010-09-02/alabamas-dareus-suspended-for-first-two-games

http://www.bamachannel.com/article/marcell_dareus_may_have_broke_ncaa_rules_investiga tion_underway

He went to a party big friggin deal

JCMElway
03-23-2011, 12:12 PM
With all of the DTs we just released, I don't think there's any way we don't take Fairley or Dareus.

TheReverend
03-23-2011, 12:23 PM
With all of the DTs we just released, I don't think there's any way we don't take Fairley or Dareus.

They still WANT Thomas. Good chance he comes back when teams aren't offering the kind of money he thinks he might get. Return to a 4-3 will do him good.

I'd love an Elvis, Liuget, Thomas, Ayers lineup honestly.

NFLBRONCO
03-23-2011, 12:40 PM
With all of the DTs we just released, I don't think there's any way we don't take Fairley or Dareus.

Also without FA before draft makes it top route just not sure what pick we'll have come draft night.

Cito Pelon
03-23-2011, 12:51 PM
Correct, but when has his low wonderlic ever showed up on the playing field?


Why should I care that this guy can't figure out how to open the front door to his house or have the mental capability to make a grilled cheese?


He can play football......well enough to be considered the best prospect in this years draft.

I still don't like him at #2 but he's the guy I want them to take if they do stay at #2........

or Dareus.........

Hmmm, I have no idea what I want them to draft.

I can go along with quite a few scenarios, and whatever they do is fine with me. They can't possibly f this one up because on paper there are 5-6 players worth that #2.

I can see the reasoning behind wanting PP, you'd think he's an impact guy not only at CB, but as a returner. Goodman is getting long in the tooth, Cox is a little iffy, Squid seems to be a dang good nickle guy, and backup outside, and backup returner, Champ is getting a little long in the tooth . . .

OTOH, it would be great to draft a 3-tech DT to complement Elvis (good outside passrusher), a decent passrusher/good run stopper in Ayers, and some good rotational guys at DT already on the roster.

On the other, other hand if Denver traded down out of #2 to pick up Von Miller, one or two of the second-tier DT's, and a TE . . . .

On the other, other, other hand if Denver were to pick one of the passrushing DE's like Bowers or Quinn they both have fans and seem like they'll do ok in the NFL. Maybe not a big need position, though.

So, there are a few scenarios that IMO would improve the team, and whatever the BBT decides I'm happy to go along with.

Cito Pelon
03-23-2011, 01:11 PM
Walt's latest mock has Gabbert to Caro & Newton to Buffalo. (With excellent reasoning) :wiggle:

Man, if Caro does go QB #1....I really hope Cinci, SF or Tennessee come calling for #2. I wouldn't want Denver to trade back past #8 though. Assuming 2 QB's + AJ Green go top 7......

#8 guarantees one of...Peterson, Dareus, Fairley, Miller or Bowers.

I would bust a nut if Cincy was the one to get nervous and jump Buffalo for a QB though. That would get extra picks AND assure Denver Peterson or Dareus at #4.

Didn't Newton let it slip out he didn't want to play in Buffalo? He said something about not wanting to play in cold weather.

HAT
03-23-2011, 02:09 PM
They still WANT Thomas. Good chance he comes back when teams aren't offering the kind of money he thinks he might get. Return to a 4-3 will do him good.

I'd love an Elvis, Liuget, Thomas, Ayers lineup honestly.

Hell yeah! How far does he drop though? I've heard he redeemed himself at his pro day.

If they go Peterson at #2 and Liuget is still OTB at #28 they better be on the phone with Beli immediately. Dangle #46 & #67. (Or even better, #46 and next years 3rd)

I'd almost make that same call at #17 but that would take both 2nd rounders which I think is too steep since he might fall.

#2 Peterson
#28 Liuget
#36 BPA (Front 7, Moore, Rudolph?)

Would be sick, IMO

HAT
03-23-2011, 02:10 PM
Didn't Newton let it slip out he didn't want to play in Buffalo? He said something about not wanting to play in cold weather.

Don't know.

elsid13
03-23-2011, 02:11 PM
crazy that people dont get this. i dont think anyone here has doubted the ceiling of peterson. lets say hes as good as champ in his prime, what will that get us? exactly where we were before, an amazing CB and later round talent and FA trying to form a dline.

When did 2nd rounders become late round talent. This extremely deep draft on the defense line, there are going to be number of guys that would been 1st rounder in other drafts slide into the second and third round.

Atwater His Ass
03-23-2011, 02:15 PM
I just cannot fathom why anyone would push taking a CB with our 2nd round pick, considering the abyssmal play our DL has given us for a decade, and oh by the way, we've had the best CB in the game for that same span.

Beantown Bronco
03-23-2011, 02:20 PM
I just cannot fathom why anyone would push taking a CB with our 2nd round pick

You'd be against taking Peterson if he was still available in the 2nd round?!?

Insanity. :)

HAT
03-23-2011, 02:23 PM
When did 2nd rounders become late round talent. This extremely deep draft on the defense line, there are going to be number of guys that would been 1st round in other draft slide into the second and third round.

100% agree.

Between Liuget, Wilkerson, Taylor & Paea....One of them is bound to be there at #36 and I think anyone of them can make as big of an impact as Dareus or Fairley.

Cito Pelon
03-23-2011, 02:26 PM
Do you guys not remember or just didn't notice that Champs best year put in the AFCCG?

Somehow forgot all those redzone INTs that won games for us by taking points off the board?

Especially his redzone pick in the endzone vs NE?

I am baffled to say the least.

That was the year Denver had a pass rush, duh.

Beantown Bronco
03-23-2011, 02:30 PM
That was the year Denver had a pass rush, duh.

What?!? You're joking, right?

They were ranked 28th in the league in sacks that year.....only two teams had less.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SACKS&season=2005&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

2KBack
03-23-2011, 02:33 PM
What?!? You're joking, right?

They were ranked 28th in the league in sacks that year.....only two teams had less.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SACKS&season=2005&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

it was in fact the year we were 2nd in rush defense, which I still think is the best indicator for defensive success personally

Cito Pelon
03-23-2011, 02:38 PM
When did 2nd rounders become late round talent. This extremely deep draft on the defense line, there are going to be number of guys that would been 1st rounder in other drafts slide into the second and third round.

Those are one technique guys though at DT. The potential 3-tech guys like Dareus or Fairley someone is gonna draft them in the top ten.

I realize it's rolling the dice on 3-tech DT's high in the draft, but teams roll the dice year after year because of the potential reward.

TheReverend
03-23-2011, 02:40 PM
That was the year Denver had a pass rush, duh.

Ahahahahahaha.

That was ACTUALLY the year we had run Cover 0 bring the house blitzes so often because we got no pressure from the front four.

Example:

Our highest DL sacker lead the team with 4 sacks.

John Lynch tied him with another 4.

Beantown Bronco
03-23-2011, 02:41 PM
it was in fact the year we were 2nd in rush defense, which I still think is the best indicator for defensive success personally

that's all well and good, but he specified pass rush.....not "defensive success"

Cito Pelon
03-23-2011, 02:52 PM
What?!? You're joking, right?

They were ranked 28th in the league in sacks that year.....only two teams had less.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SACKS&season=2005&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

Yeah, but because Coyer blitzed like crazy the D put a lot of pressure on the opposing QB to get rid of the ball fast.

So that's the point. You have to put pressure on the QB, and get the pressure fast.

PP won't help pressuring the QB.

The BBT can think Elvis and Ayers can press well off the edge in a 4-3, and that's fine with me, I can see that, but there is no pressure inside from the current DT's on the roster.

Draft a 3-tech DT that can pressure inside and maybe that's more effective than drafting PP. But, I'm intrigued by PP's return ability.

So, that's why I said whatever they choose to do is fine with me.

Cito Pelon
03-23-2011, 02:56 PM
Ahahahahahaha.

That was ACTUALLY the year we had run Cover 0 bring the house blitzes so often because we got no pressure from the front four.

Example:

Our highest DL sacker lead the team with 4 sacks.

John Lynch tied him with another 4.

Right, but the point is Coyer put a passrush on the QB one way or another, forcing the QB into poor decisions.

TheReverend
03-23-2011, 03:01 PM
Yeah, but because Coyer blitzed like crazy the D put a lot of pressure on the opposing QB to get rid of the ball fast.

Sometimes... more notably the Philly game. Rarely did those cover 0 blitzes result in a pick. That was more Champ being amazing and having a DPOY season.

So that's the point. You have to put pressure on the QB, and get the pressure fast.

PP won't help pressuring the QB.

Ummm... yes he will...

The BBT can think Elvis and Ayers can press well off the edge in a 4-3, and that's fine with me, I can see that, but there is no pressure inside from the current DT's on the roster.

Draft a 3-tech DT that can pressure inside and maybe that's more effective than drafting PP. But, I'm intrigued by PP's return ability.

So, that's why I said whatever they choose to do is fine with me.

Dareus isnt a pass rushing DT and Fairley is potentially a ticking time bomb.

There are FANTASTIC pass rushing DTs available later in the draft. #2 overall is far from our only selection.

Beantown Bronco
03-23-2011, 03:01 PM
Yeah, but because Coyer blitzed like crazy the D put a lot of pressure on the opposing QB to get rid of the ball fast.

So that's the point. You have to put pressure on the QB, and get the pressure fast.

Nope. Outside of the Philly game that year when for some reason Donovan McNabb went full retard, even with the infamous zero blitz, they just didn't get anywhere near the QB. Period. It was embarrassing.

PP won't help pressuring the QB.

Disagree. Good coverage can make a QB hold onto a ball for an extra second or two. An extra second or two for Dumervil or Ayers should do wonders. As long as the DTs are league-average (which they can get in FA, trade, or through the draft even if they don't take one with the #2 pick), they'll easily generate more pressure than they have in recent years.

The BBT can think Elvis and Ayers can press well off the edge in a 4-3, and that's fine with me, I can see that, but there is no pressure inside from the current DT's on the roster.

See above. There are plenty of ways to address that issue with the DTs. And probably the least likely to be effective this year is to draft one at #2 overall.

TheReverend
03-23-2011, 03:02 PM
Nope. Outside of the Philly game that year when for some reason Donovan McNabb went full retard, even with the infamous zero blitz, they just didn't get anywhere near the QB. Period. It was embarrassing.



Disagree. Good coverage can make a QB hold onto a ball for an extra second or two. An extra second or two for Dumervil or Ayers should do wonders. As long as the DTs are league-average (which they can get in FA, trade, or through the draft even if they don't take one with the #2 pick), they'll easily generate more pressure than they have in recent years.



See above. There are plenty of ways to address that issue with the DTs. And probably the least likely to be effective this year is to draft one at #2 overall.

lol it's like we paraphrased each other simultaneously

Cito Pelon
03-23-2011, 03:25 PM
Nope. Outside of the Philly game that year when for some reason Donovan McNabb went full retard, even with the infamous zero blitz, they just didn't get anywhere near the QB. Period. It was embarrassing.



Disagree. Good coverage can make a QB hold onto a ball for an extra second or two. An extra second or two for Dumervil or Ayers should do wonders. As long as the DTs are league-average (which they can get in FA, trade, or through the draft even if they don't take one with the #2 pick), they'll easily generate more pressure than they have in recent years.



See above. There are plenty of ways to address that issue with the DTs. And probably the least likely to be effective this year is to draft one at #2 overall.

I disagree.

Good coverage is fine, but if a QB can fool around forever with no pressure he's gonna find a guy open (Jamarcus Russell ring a bell?)

And you're never, ever gonna find a top DT in FA, they get re-signed or franchised, they don't move from the team that drafted them til they're used up.

You have to draft a top DT, period.

Maybe Denver can generate a passrush off the edge with Elvis and Ayers, but they're still gonna have problems with a consistent inside passrush unless they blitz. And Denver doesn't have any inside blitzers.

As I said, if they go PP that's fine with me, but I'm thinking DT at #2 will work fine also.

elsid13
03-23-2011, 03:30 PM
Those are one technique guys though at DT. The potential 3-tech guys like Dareus or Fairley someone is gonna draft them in the top ten.

I realize it's rolling the dice on 3-tech DT's high in the draft, but teams roll the dice year after year because of the potential reward.

Allen Bailey, Christian Ballard, Paea, Nevis and be 3-tech DT. Remember they are also going to bring Thomas back and he best suited for that position.

Beantown Bronco
03-23-2011, 03:32 PM
And you're never, ever gonna find a top DT in FA, they get re-signed or franchised, they don't move from the team that drafted them til they're used up.

You have to draft a top DT, period.

1. This is wrong. Guys like Seymour, Gerard Warren, Jenkins, Rogers, etc. are just a few recent examples of guys that you can milk at least a few good to great seasons out of through trades or FA.

2. I never even said "top" DT anywhere. I said league average.....which is all they'd need with a great DE or two and great cover guys.

3. You have great cover guys that can take on WRs without doubles? That leaves a ton of options available to blitz creatively and get pressure. And I thought that's exactly what you were just praising Coyer for.

Jetmeck
03-23-2011, 03:34 PM
I really feel like this is Ed Reed all over again, please don't let us pass him up

Yes, excellent point !

TheReverend
03-23-2011, 03:37 PM
1. This is wrong. Guys like Seymour, Gerard Warren, Jenkins, Rogers, etc. are just a few recent examples of guys that you can milk at least a few good to great seasons out of through trades or FA.

2. I never even said "top" DT anywhere. I said league average.....which is all they'd need with a great DE or two and great cover guys.

3. You have great cover guys that can take on WRs without doubles? That leaves a ton of options available to blitz creatively and get pressure. And I thought that's exactly what you were just praising Coyer for.

Don't forget Pat Williams. He's done alright since being picked up by Minnesota to the tune of 3 pro bowls and an all pro.

TheReverend
03-23-2011, 03:39 PM
On that FA note...

Who was the last great CB to become available to FA outside of this Asomougha technicality?

Last I can even remember was Nate Clements and I'd call him good not great.

TheReverend
03-23-2011, 03:40 PM
^ Check that. Asante Samuel hit it pretty recently

oubronco
03-23-2011, 03:47 PM
Why everyone just assumes Doom is going to come back from a significant injury and be as effective as he was in 09 is crazy. His best year was in a 3-4 and we are switching back to a 4-3 which the opposition ran at him with good success and nuetralized him to an extent. I hope i'm wrong but I don't see it

Cito Pelon
03-23-2011, 03:50 PM
Allen Bailey, Christian Ballard, Paea, Nevis and be 3-tech DT. Remember they are also going to bring Thomas back and he best suited for that position.

If you say so that's fine with me. As I said, the option of trading back from #2 to get a couple of the second-tier DT's and a TE, maybe Von Miller would be fine with me.

Whatever the BBT does will be fine with me, I imagine they can't f this up no matter what they do.

Beantown Bronco
03-23-2011, 03:51 PM
Why everyone just assumes Doom is going to come back from a significant injury and be as effective as he was in 09 is crazy. His best year was in a 3-4 and we are switching back to a 4-3 which the opposition ran at him with good success and nuetralized him to an extent. I hope i'm wrong but I don't see it

I don't think anyone is expecting him to be 100% at that level right away, but it's not crazy to assume he'll be a significant upgrade over what we were throwing out there in his place last season.

Cito Pelon
03-23-2011, 04:15 PM
1. This is wrong. Guys like Seymour, Gerard Warren, Jenkins, Rogers, etc. are just a few recent examples of guys that you can milk at least a few good to great seasons out of through trades or FA.

2. I never even said "top" DT anywhere. I said league average.....which is all they'd need with a great DE or two and great cover guys.

3. You have great cover guys that can take on WRs without doubles? That leaves a ton of options available to blitz creatively and get pressure. And I thought that's exactly what you were just praising Coyer for.

I'll stick with you can't get great DT's in trades or FA. Seymour, Warren, Jenkins, Rogers, they were used up. DT's generally have a short life, you have to draft them every five years. You have to keep plugging those guys in.

And, you don't want to have to blitz all the time to get pressure on the QB.

As I said, Elvis and Ayers may be fine as edge rushers, but it would be nice to draft an inside penetrator 3-tech like Dareus or Fairley to complement those two rather than PP.

ZONA
03-23-2011, 05:21 PM
I don't care about his wonderlic; I care that we've had the best CB for the past decade and have zero to show for it.

Get. Better. Up. Front.

I agree. Obviously great CB's help but there's nothing quite like having a total stud who lines up just a few feet from the QB. A great DL player will help you much faster in the pass and run categories. In order to beat the best QB's in today's game, you need to be up in their face.........PERIOD. You can have an awesome cover CB and guys like Manning are so accurate, they can put that ball inside a 2 foot window and complete that passes, even if your CB has perfect coverage. You have to make those QB's throw before they want to and maybe even change the trajectory.

I vote DL and keep em coming

epicSocialism4tw
03-23-2011, 05:48 PM
Wonderlic scores don't effect your ability to play any defensive back position.

You forgot to add: "in the football backfield positions in the national football league where football is played by football players playing national fooball league football with a national football league football team handling national football league footballs at all positions on the national football league football field."

NFLBRONCO
03-23-2011, 09:16 PM
thats nice, i would love to have someone with champs abilities on this team for the next 10 years. but at end of the day,a great, top 3 corner does not make enough of an effect to pass up the opportunity for an impact DL. IF you have a great DL or rotation of guys capable of getting pressure with exotic blitz schemes, like early 09 or the modern day jets, and add a great corner as well, you are in for a great defense. we dont have a DL, thus dont have the luxury of using the #2 pick on a CB.

Mainly I like having a good debate with you because it kills time until the draft. I realize Dareus fills a bigger need. Let's be clear maybe Denver likes Fairley and Bowers better then Dareus or Peterson anyways. I think we are all too focused on two players.

NFLBRONCO
03-23-2011, 09:22 PM
Let me put it this way if Shanny or McD's was here still I'd want Dareus all the way because they can't build D's worth a crap. Where with Fox I feel way better about him finding D talent beyond 1st round.

tsiguy96
03-23-2011, 09:29 PM
Mainly I like having a good debate with you because it kills time until the draft. I realize Dareus fills a bigger need. Let's be clear maybe Denver likes Fairley and Bowers better then Dareus or Peterson anyways. I think we are all too focused on two players.

bowers is gonna semi freefall in draft. im not so concerned with if its dareus OR fairley, just one of them honestly. if you look at the QB situation though, whichever qb is on the board at 2, assuming carolina takes one, will have a demand, and buffalo is at the 3rd spot and they WILL draft one if they are there. we are in prime position to get a lot of value.

NFLBRONCO
03-23-2011, 09:46 PM
bowers is gonna semi freefall in draft. im not so concerned with if its dareus OR fairley, just one of them honestly. if you look at the QB situation though, whichever qb is on the board at 2, assuming carolina takes one, will have a demand, and buffalo is at the 3rd spot and they WILL draft one if they are there. we are in prime position to get a lot of value.

I wouldn't rule out Bowers yet his pro day is still ahead. Dareus and Peterson are only two guys I want if we stay put. If we move down I'll take others mentioned.

HAT
03-23-2011, 10:29 PM
bowers is gonna semi freefall in draft. im not so concerned with if its dareus OR fairley, just one of them honestly. if you look at the QB situation though, whichever qb is on the board at 2, assuming carolina takes one, will have a demand, and buffalo is at the 3rd spot and they WILL draft one if they are there. we are in prime position to get a lot of value.

I think this only works if Caro takes Newton....Then the demand for Gabbert will be there for QB needy teams to think about passing Buffalo for him.

If Gabbert goes #1, I can see alot of teams saying "Meh, let Buffalo have Newton & we'll try for Locker, Ponder, Kaepernick, Mallet, Dalton, etc" next round.

OTOH....If Caro doesn't take a QB at all, the QB needy teams in the top 10 will just hope one or the other falls to them.

HAT
03-23-2011, 10:35 PM
I wouldn't rule out Bowers yet his pro day is still ahead. Dareus and Peterson are only two guys I want if we stay put. If we move down I'll take others mentioned.

Who knows but it seems like his stock is falling awful quick. To the point where I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of other DE's go before him.

KevinJames
03-23-2011, 10:51 PM
You forgot to add: "in the football backfield positions in the national football league where football is played by football players playing national fooball league football with a national football league football team handling national football league footballs at all positions on the national football league football field."

you should really stop trying so hard.

epicSocialism4tw
03-24-2011, 12:08 AM
you should really stop trying so hard.

Cliche is pretty dang easy, bro.

Its done without thinking. You should know.

TheReverend
03-24-2011, 04:34 AM
I'll stick with you can't get great DT's in trades or FA. Seymour, Warren, Jenkins, Rogers, they were used up. DT's generally have a short life, you have to draft them every five years. You have to keep plugging those guys in.

And, you don't want to have to blitz all the time to get pressure on the QB.

As I said, Elvis and Ayers may be fine as edge rushers, but it would be nice to draft an inside penetrator 3-tech like Dareus or Fairley to complement those two rather than PP.

You don't honestly believe this stuff before you type it, do you?

3 of the 4 names you mentioned have gone to pro bowls with their new teams (Only one that didn't was Warren, but he was NEVER an elite player and in fact highlights the danger of selecting a DT at #2 considering how great of a prospect he was and fell flat on his face in the NFL). One (Jenkins) threw a first team all pro performance on.

Side note: The two best DTs on that list weren't first rounders.

Cliffs of post: Check mate.

Cito Pelon
03-26-2011, 08:00 AM
You don't honestly believe this stuff before you type it, do you?

3 of the 4 names you mentioned have gone to pro bowls with their new teams (Only one that didn't was Warren, but he was NEVER an elite player and in fact highlights the danger of selecting a DT at #2 considering how great of a prospect he was and fell flat on his face in the NFL). One (Jenkins) threw a first team all pro performance on.

Side note: The two best DTs on that list weren't first rounders.

Cliffs of post: Check mate.

I honestly believe it the 50% of the time I'm 100% correct.

Kris Jenkins had ONE good year (the first year, 2008) with NYJ, only played in 6 games in '09 and one game in '10.

Shaun Rogers about the same thing, had the good 2008, dropped off in production in '09 and '10.

Seymour, ok, he's been solid for OAK, but he was 30 yrs old, an 8-yr vet and acquired for a #1 pick, so you have to wonder if OAK is going to get more production from Seymour than if that #1 pick was used on a rookie DT.

Again, I can see PP being a fine player especially if he becomes a good returner, but it also won't hurt to have a young stud DT to go with Elvis and Ayers. If that rookie DT comes in round 2, that's fine with me.

TheReverend
03-26-2011, 12:16 PM
I honestly believe it the 50% of the time I'm 100% correct.

Kris Jenkins had ONE good year (the first year, 2008) with NYJ, only played in 6 games in '09 and one game in '10.

Shaun Rogers about the same thing, had the good 2008, dropped off in production in '09 and '10.

Seymour, ok, he's been solid for OAK, but he was 30 yrs old, an 8-yr vet and acquired for a #1 pick, so you have to wonder if OAK is going to get more production from Seymour than if that #1 pick was used on a rookie DT.

Again, I can see PP being a fine player especially if he becomes a good returner, but it also won't hurt to have a young stud DT to go with Elvis and Ayers. If that rookie DT comes in round 2, that's fine with me.

Jenkins tore his ACL in back to back seasons. That has nothing to do with your argument.

Rogers was forced into a position switch by brilliant Mangini.

None of this alters what I've said one bit.

Doggcow
03-26-2011, 12:17 PM
Let me put it this way if Shanny or McD's was here still I'd want Dareus all the way because they can't build D's worth a crap. Where with Fox I feel way better about him finding D talent beyond 1st round.

Lol, silly, everyone knows the only pick in the draft is the #2 overall pick.

We can't draft any other good players other than that pick. There actually isn't a draft after the first round.

TheReverend
03-26-2011, 12:23 PM
Lol, silly, everyone knows the only pick in the draft is the #2 overall pick.

We can't draft any other good players other than that pick. There actually isn't a draft after the first round.

I heard because of the CBA they're shutting the draft down after #5

Doggcow
03-26-2011, 12:32 PM
I heard because of the CBA they're shutting the draft down after #5

Probably best that way. Anyone picked after like #7 can't possibly produce in the NFL.

Cito Pelon
03-26-2011, 12:34 PM
Jenkins tore his ACL in back to back seasons. That has nothing to do with your argument.

Rogers was forced into a position switch by brilliant Mangini.

None of this alters what I've said one bit.

Not one bit, of course not.

It matters not rolling the dice on an aging vet vs. rolling the dice on a rookie.