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GoBroncos84
03-20-2011, 04:27 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/20/writer-paints-unpleasant-picture-of-pat-bowlens-health/

The gathering of NFL owners in New Orleans for league meetings will result in plenty of real-time reporting and observations on Twitter.

An early eyebrow-raiser comes from Bart Hubbuch of the New York Post, who says that Broncos owner Pat Bowlen looks “frail and out of it.”

“His right-hand man just had to show him how to get in a car,” Hubbuch writes. “Sad.”

Rumors and reports have been emerging for months regarding Bowlen’s health. The team consistently has denied that Bowlen is ill.

If he is, we wish him well.

TheReverend
03-20-2011, 04:29 PM
Ugh

Dr. Broncenstein
03-20-2011, 04:30 PM
Really, was there any doubt after watching the Elway introductory presser?

DivineBronco
03-20-2011, 04:32 PM
hopefully this is the final bit of proof those that just didn't want to believe needed

tsiguy96
03-20-2011, 04:35 PM
makes me even more glad he hired fox, and elway seems to have filled into his role nicely. out of it or not, bowlen did a damn good job getting people who can take control on staff.

Killericon
03-20-2011, 04:45 PM
Does Bowlen have a kid who's interested in football?

This is sad to hear. I hope for the best.

rugbythug
03-20-2011, 04:50 PM
hopefully this is the final bit of proof those that just didn't want to believe needed

What does that matter

strafen
03-20-2011, 04:53 PM
Does Bowlen have a kid who's interested in football?
This is sad to hear. I hope for the best.I've got the feeling Elway will eventually become at least, a majority owner of the team...

UberBroncoMan
03-20-2011, 04:53 PM
Does Bowlen have a kid who's interested in football?

This is sad to hear. I hope for the best.

He said that none of his kids had interest in taking over the family business.

tsiguy96
03-20-2011, 04:54 PM
What does that matter

he has to win the "i knew i was right and those who didnt believe are wrong, and need to fess up" even if it is over a guys health.

strafen
03-20-2011, 04:54 PM
hopefully this is the final bit of proof those that just didn't want to believe needed

In this case, why would you want to be right?

RhymesayersDU
03-20-2011, 05:00 PM
In this case, why would you want to be right?

Because it's the internet, clearly.

McDman
03-20-2011, 05:06 PM
Although the drunk jokes probably should have stopped about a year ago, I'd say it's definitely time now.

DivineBronco
03-20-2011, 05:07 PM
In this case, why would you want to be right?

fair enough I did seem to post that in a tone.
No this makes me sad as hell but whenever it came up it was very hard to have a discussion about the future of this team because people rushed into say everything was fine and nothing will change
I fear what happens next with this team. If Elway has been brought in with the idea that he will lead the next group to by the team then wonderful. But it not this team could be ripe for the picking if Bowlen has not put very specific plans in place. His children have all ready made it clear they have no interest in owning the Broncos.

Atwater His Ass
03-20-2011, 05:20 PM
When it's all said and done, I think Elway will be taking this team over after Bowlen.

I believe part of brining him in now, and Elway agreeing to it finally, is to develop the turnover plan before it becomes too late.

BroncosSR
03-20-2011, 05:22 PM
Yeah, the new report just flat out scares me. When it rains, it pours...


I blame McDouche.

TheReverend
03-20-2011, 05:24 PM
This does clarify Ellis' poisoning of Bowlen's decision a few years ago for me:

http://www.runtogold.com/images/Grima.jpg

Dr. Broncenstein
03-20-2011, 05:46 PM
Bowlen remained silent and unseen during the most tumultuous period of his ownership. There had been rumors for at least a year -- including an admission from Bowlen himself that he was losing his memory. Elway is introduced as the VP, and Bowlen can barely muster a few slurred sentences. This was on video, plain as day. Yet this goes completely untouched by the local media... coupled with a display of outright denial regarding Bowlen's obvious health problem by a faction of posters on this board.

Now a profootballtalk article suggests there might be a problem, and people are starting to worry. Makes perfect sense.

eddie mac
03-20-2011, 06:12 PM
I'm not worried one bit about the Broncos future, the franchise will be fine considering it's been a top 10-15 NFL earner for the last decade plus. I'm just more worried about the man who gave me 2 Superbowl wins with his money, some fans will never experience that. I hope Pat's health picks up.

jsco70
03-20-2011, 06:18 PM
I'm not worried one bit about the Broncos future, the franchise will be fine considering it's been a top 10-15 NFL earner for the last decade plus. I'm just more worried about the man who gave me 2 Superbowl wins with his money, some fans will never experience that. I hope Pat's health picks up.

well said...great post.

BMarsh615
03-20-2011, 06:34 PM
https://twitter.com/thegarymiller

Pat was fine when I sat down with him He's been in D.C and now is in New Orleans so it's hard to believe he can't get in a car.


I'm told by reliable source at owners meetings, Bowlen was busy talking to people in lobby today and went thru killer workout Friday.

Taco John
03-20-2011, 06:56 PM
Godspeed to him if these reports are true.

tsiguy96
03-20-2011, 07:00 PM
https://twitter.com/thegarymiller

Pat was fine when I sat down with him He's been in D.C and now is in New Orleans so it's hard to believe he can't get in a car.


I'm told by reliable source at owners meetings, Bowlen was busy talking to people in lobby today and went thru killer workout Friday.

maybe the new orleans media should stick to new orleans.

tsiguy96
03-20-2011, 07:07 PM
Bowlen remained silent and unseen during the most tumultuous period of his ownership. There had been rumors for at least a year -- including an admission from Bowlen himself that he was losing his memory. Elway is introduced as the VP, and Bowlen can barely muster a few slurred sentences. This was on video, plain as day. Yet this goes completely untouched by the local media... coupled with a display of outright denial regarding Bowlen's obvious health problem by a faction of posters on this board.

Now a profootballtalk article suggests there might be a problem, and people are starting to worry. Makes perfect sense.

i know weve gone over this like 30 times, but that was pretty clearly a joke. the topic was in discussion to super bowls and he said it in jest, saying its been so long since we won a super bowl he barely remembers them.

Jetmeck
03-20-2011, 07:12 PM
Here we go again

Jetmeck
03-20-2011, 07:13 PM
Bowlen remained silent and unseen during the most tumultuous period of his ownership. There had been rumors for at least a year -- including an admission from Bowlen himself that he was losing his memory. Elway is introduced as the VP, and Bowlen can barely muster a few slurred sentences. This was on video, plain as day. Yet this goes completely untouched by the local media... coupled with a display of outright denial regarding Bowlen's obvious health problem by a faction of posters on this board.

Now a profootballtalk article suggests there might be a problem, and people are starting to worry. Makes perfect sense.

Absolutely no slurred speech in that video.............outright BS

Dr. Broncenstein
03-20-2011, 07:15 PM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/John-Elway-Press-Conference---Part-1/af79b952-9d91-472e-98e3-5f3aa1243389

Really, I'm surprised you can stream this video. But just in case anyone has forgotten and/or has their head in the sand....

Jetmeck
03-20-2011, 07:19 PM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/John-Elway-Press-Conference---Part-1/af79b952-9d91-472e-98e3-5f3aa1243389

Really, I'm surprised you can stream this video. But just in case anyone has forgotten and/or has their head in the sand....

Dont be an ass. This is typical B0wlen. He has always been a nervous wreck in front of the camera. Nothing new here and damn sure isnt health related. This has been covered here many times.
Get over it................

tsiguy96
03-20-2011, 07:21 PM
Dont be an ass. This is typical B0wlen. He has always been a nervous wreck in front of the camera. Nothing new here and damn sure isnt health related. This has been covered here many times.
Get over it................

exactly. hell watch his zimmerman speech, it was bad, hes not a guy to stand up and talk in front of millions and feel comfortable.

Dr. Broncenstein
03-20-2011, 07:23 PM
Dont be an ass. This is typical B0wlen. He has always been a nervous wreck in front of the camera. Nothing new here and damn sure isnt health related. This has been covered here many times.
Get over it................

So, it's all good then? Great news.

tsiguy96
03-20-2011, 07:26 PM
So, it's all good then? Great news.

hes 67, its not impossible there is some age related degeneration there, as im pretty sure you know. but for people to grasp at straws to prove it is silly, especially when they use false arguments.

Soul-Bronco
03-20-2011, 07:50 PM
Anyone who watches those videos and says bowlens in bad shape has never worked with or have been exposed to the dementia or alzheimers population. You think he's bad ? you really havent seen anything when it comes to how severe these dieases cripple a patient.

You dont go to an owners convention today, speak as one of the main owners in the CBA negotiations the past month, and then all the sudden forget how to get into to your car, it just doesnt happen that way.

Yes, he may have some age related degeneration, but dementia or alzheimers? no freakin way. Take that from someone who has worked with this population before.

zdoor
03-20-2011, 07:51 PM
I've got the feeling Elway will eventually become at least, a majority owner of the team...

I agree. I've thought that for a while now. I think his current role is a primer fir ownership...

strafen
03-20-2011, 08:42 PM
Bowlen has never been eloquent and fluid in his speeches.
He's a man of few words. His most famous speech was:
"This one's for John"
He's just like that.
I must admit I haven't seen any recent speeches by him for me to re-assess.
We just don't want to hear his health is declining.
It could well be true for all I know, in the meantime, I wish the guy the best, for sure...

strafen
03-20-2011, 08:51 PM
fair enough I did seem to post that in a tone.
No this makes me sad as hell but whenever it came up it was very hard to have a discussion about the future of this team because people rushed into say everything was fine and nothing will change
I fear what happens next with this team. If Elway has been brought in with the idea that he will lead the next group to by the team then wonderful. But it not this team could be ripe for the picking if Bowlen has not put very specific plans in place. His children have all ready made it clear they have no interest in owning the Broncos.There's alot of truth there.
It's nice, or it would be nice if in Mr. Bowlen's plans for the future of the team include Elway.
I tend to believe Elway is a person Mr. Bowlen would rather have as his successor given that in the past, Elway's stated that he wants to be an NFL owner...

doonwise
03-20-2011, 08:53 PM
If this is true, hopefully Elway is being groomed to buy the franchise...

BigPlayShay
03-20-2011, 09:01 PM
The source of the article on PFT is a tweet from a writer for the New York Post.

AZorange1
03-20-2011, 09:09 PM
I'm not worried one bit about the Broncos future, the franchise will be fine considering it's been a top 10-15 NFL earner for the last decade plus. I'm just more worried about the man who gave me 2 Superbowl wins with his money, some fans will never experience that. I hope Pat's health picks up.

Excellent comment. Right on the money.

SoCalBronco
03-20-2011, 10:46 PM
I really do not like Bowlen as an owner, but I do hope he can return to full health. It's never a good thing to be in a bad condition health wise. All the best to Pat.

UberBroncoMan
03-21-2011, 12:49 AM
exactly. hell watch his zimmerman speech, it was bad, hes not a guy to stand up and talk in front of millions and feel comfortable.

Ironically, at a Super Bowl.

Four words.

This one's for John.

Taco John
03-21-2011, 01:06 AM
Ironically, at a Super Bowl.

Four words.

This one's for John.

The most memorable post superbowl owners's speech in the history of the game. I hope Bowlen goes into the HOF for it. I worry that his McDaniel's escapade will cost him though. Hopefully not. The recent moves feel right.

footstepsfrom#27
03-21-2011, 01:56 AM
This has been out there since September.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=2987118&highlight=invesco#post2987118

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=2928197&highlight=invesco#post2928197

kappys
03-21-2011, 02:40 AM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/John-Elway-Press-Conference---Part-1/af79b952-9d91-472e-98e3-5f3aa1243389

Really, I'm surprised you can stream this video. But just in case anyone has forgotten and/or has their head in the sand....

I'm gonna throw out early Parkinsons? Face is fairly masked though a few expressions thrown in. controls the tremor but shifts a lot making the speech - typical of early disease when the tremor is controllable but often leaves a significant urge to move. Motor degeneration precedes memory issues - so could explain why he is still playing a role in negociations, etc.

Pat Bowlen
03-21-2011, 02:45 AM
WINNING.

RhymesayersDU
03-21-2011, 05:06 AM
First and foremost, whatever the issue, best wishes to Mr. Bowlen and his family.

Now, onto a question; a general NFL question, not really Bowlen-specific.

Let's say Bowlen, (or any other owner) is ill or not in a right state of mind during a labor stoppage like this. What happens with working out deals, negotiations, etc? Do all owners basically stick together anyways? Would he have a vote in something that couldn't be cast due to his health? Would that even matter, if all the other owners were in agreement on something?

Just wondering.

Drunk Monkey
03-21-2011, 05:29 AM
I watched the Vid and am not overly concerned with his health. As other posters have said I think it is more of a poor public speaking effort then serious health problems.

On a different note I hope the has all of his estate planning in order. 67 is starting to get up there. When the time comes I hope this franchise stays in the Bowlen family. I hope that similar to Pitt and Chicago the family hires qualified people and then gets out of the way. It's that or we end up with the Billionaire of the week (probably a Chinese) who runs it like his own personal FFL team ala Schnider.

TonyR
03-21-2011, 05:37 AM
I've got the feeling Elway will eventually become at least, a majority owner of the team...

If by "majority owner" you mean part of a consortium than owns a controlling interest in the team then yes, perhaps. But Elway himself doesn't have close to the kind of resources to be a majority owner on his own.

strafen
03-21-2011, 08:29 AM
If by "majority owner" you mean part of a consortium than owns a controlling interest in the team then yes, perhaps. But Elway himself doesn't have close to the kind of resources to be a majority owner on his own.Perhaps.
Mr. Bowlen will accomodate Elway as much as he can to make sure he's got some sinificant power on the team, should he decide to sell it...

worm
03-21-2011, 10:01 AM
He seemed okay to me until we had that 5th hand grenade last night.

Beantown Bronco
03-21-2011, 10:29 AM
If there was ever any real doubt about the Broncos finances and exactly how profitable they actually are, just look at all the family members jumping at the chance to take over for Pat. Very telling, at least IMO, that they'd rather risk losing more money to lawsuits and possibly giving it back to a guy like Kaiser than holding onto it and keeping it in the family.

schaaf
03-21-2011, 10:36 AM
his brother, John Bowlen owns a minority stake in the Broncos with Pat Bowlen as the majority stake.

John Bowlen is also on the executive board.

Beantown Bronco
03-21-2011, 10:45 AM
his brother, John Bowlen owns a minority stake in the Broncos with Pat Bowlen as the majority stake.

John Bowlen is also on the executive board.

A bunch of his siblings do....through trusts and shell corporations. That is a separate issue.

Hulamau
03-21-2011, 11:02 AM
So, it's all good then? Great news.

Well there sure were no smoking guns in that video talk of him introducing Elway as the new head honcho of football operations.

Pat has always been awkward with the press but he used no cue cards or telliprompter and even got off a quip about "this one's for John" ...He isnt the spring chicken he ocne was but seemed well in control of his faculties in that video.

Certainly wouldn't have had any trouble getting in a car that day. Lets hope he stays okay for the coming years. But if not, I've littlte doubt Elway will be in the mix for taking over upstairs as well.

footstepsfrom#27
03-21-2011, 12:50 PM
Anyone who watches those videos and says bowlens in bad shape has never worked with or have been exposed to the dementia or alzheimers population. You think he's bad ? you really havent seen anything when it comes to how severe these dieases cripple a patient.

You dont go to an owners convention today, speak as one of the main owners in the CBA negotiations the past month, and then all the sudden forget how to get into to your car, it just doesnt happen that way.

Yes, he may have some age related degeneration, but dementia or alzheimers? no freakin way. Take that from someone who has worked with this population before.
I worked nearly 20 years in the mental health field, frequently working with Alzheimers and dimentia patients. Both my grandmothers, and my mother all died with either Alzheimers or dimentia going on so I do know something about it. Alzheimers is a disease that creeps up sometimes without people recognizing it at first. It's progressive...so it is not true that the casual observers like fans would know much of whats going on with Bowlen till it becomes very obvious. Someone with the means to hire really good help could keep it well hidden for quite a while if the disease didn't progress to rapidly.

tsiguy96
03-21-2011, 02:43 PM
I worked nearly 20 years in the mental health field, frequently working with Alzheimers and dimentia patients. Both my grandmothers, and my mother all died with either Alzheimers or dimentia going on so I do know something about it. Alzheimers is a disease that creeps up sometimes without people recognizing it at first. It's progressive...so it is not true that the casual observers like fans would know much of whats going on with Bowlen till it becomes very obvious. Someone with the means to hire really good help could keep it well hidden for quite a while if the disease didn't progress to rapidly.

wow, i dont know how you keep making these connections.
some old people dont show signs of dementia publicly, and since bowlen is old, he has dementia for sure just not showing signs?

bendog
03-21-2011, 02:47 PM
It's the concussions he suffered playing.

TheProfessor
03-21-2011, 03:57 PM
FWIW... My Father (also born in 1944) just died of Dementia a few weeks ago.

Bowlens condition does not resemble anything I witnessed over the last 2 years.

BroncoLifer
03-21-2011, 04:08 PM
I'm not worried one bit about the Broncos future, the franchise will be fine considering it's been a top 10-15 NFL earner for the last decade plus.

The Redskins are a top earning franchise, too. Look at the difference a bad owner makes.


I'm just more worried about the man who gave me 2 Superbowl wins with his money, some fans will never experience that. I hope Pat's health picks up.

Agreed 100%.

Beantown Bronco
03-22-2011, 03:54 AM
FWIW... My Father (also born in 1944) just died of Dementia a few weeks ago.

Bowlens condition does not resemble anything I witnessed over the last 2 years.

To be fair, you have what? maybe a minute or two of Bowlen footage a month to base this off of? Pretty weak sample size to say the least. I'm guessing you had a tad more exposure to your dad.

tsiguy96
03-22-2011, 06:26 AM
To be fair, you have what? maybe a minute or two of Bowlen footage a month to base this off of? Pretty weak sample size to say the least. I'm guessing you had a tad more exposure to your dad.

so because we have no video evidence that bowlen does NOT have dementia, we need to assume he has it?

Beantown Bronco
03-22-2011, 07:27 AM
so because we have no video evidence that bowlen does NOT have dementia, we need to assume he has it?

Not at all what I said.

Bronco Vixen
03-22-2011, 01:06 PM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/John-Elway-Press-Conference---Part-1/af79b952-9d91-472e-98e3-5f3aa1243389

Really, I'm surprised you can stream this video. But just in case anyone has forgotten and/or has their head in the sand....

A few things:

1) Dementia is a degenerative disease, which means people get progressively worse over time. The duration of disease varies widely depending on etiology but for Alzheimer's disease (AD) it is typically around 7 - 9 years. There are other causes of dementia in which the neurodegeneration and thus the disease progression is much more rapid (including rarer subtypes of AD).

2) The early prodromal or preclinical phase of the disease (i.e., when symptoms are very subtle if at all apparent), can sometimes last for a few years. This is why certain dementing diseases often go undetected early on and for a number of years. This is particularly true for AD because a) early symptoms mimic symptoms of healthy or normal aging (e.g., mild memory and language difficulties) and b) cognitive abilities that often help mask the disease (e.g., ease of social discourse, intact motor abilities) are among the last to deteriorate. That is why people may be able to carry on with their lives with minimally evident deterioration to the common observer and why individuals in the early stages of the disease haven't "lost control of their faculties" or in any way resemble individuals in the later debilitating stages of the disease.

3) At the end of the day, dementia is still a clinical diagnosis that can only be confirmed at autopsy. This fact is changing quickly as there are several promising biomarkers in the late stages of research trials, but today, to be diagnosed with many of the diseases that cause dementia, means that one has been assessed from a number of different perspectives including neuroimaging and most commonly, neurocognitive or neuropsychological assessment. By definition, clinical diagnoses require looking at a number of different pieces of possible evidence and putting those together to inform an opinion. That is not grasping at straws. In particular, identifying changes within an individual's personality, demeanor, language abilities, attentional abilities, memory etc. over time, is very telling.

4) Why is it important to assess potential changes early on when degenerative dementias like AD are not curable? Because medications can slow the process down considerably and extend quality of life. That means keeping people in their jobs and living independently for longer periods of time. But that necessarily means, again, looking at a lot of evidence that never comes in the form of a smoking gun - but instead is carefully assessed based on multidisciplinary methodology and years of clinical experience.

Does all of this mean that Pat Bowlen is absolutely in the early stages of a dementing process like AD? Of course not. I don't think anyone would make that definitive diagnosis with the bits and pieces of possible evidence that we as the public have seen.

However, to completely discount the evidence entirely - just because there is no smoking gun or definitive lab test or because he doesn't look like a late stage "drooling" dementia patient, and on top of that, outright attack people who may be interpreting things differently, is also not the answer in my opinion. Speculation is a pervasive part of medicine, science, and everyday life. Why it's acceptable to speculate on some topics but not others is beyond me.

In terms of Mr. Bowlen, specifically, what's most telling to me is what I would characterize as a notable difference/decline from his 2008 Shannahan press conference and his 2007 speech at Darrent William's memorial service to the most recent Elway presser. There is a difference between never being "very eloquent" and what I would consider to be significant changes in his overall fluency in the span of 3 - 4 years - and the ability to answer questions extemporaneously, which as the good doc pointed out, he has not done over the past couple of years during an extremely critical time from a PR perspective.

Bronco Vixen
03-22-2011, 01:10 PM
I'm gonna throw out early Parkinsons? Face is fairly masked though a few expressions thrown in. controls the tremor but shifts a lot making the speech - typical of early disease when the tremor is controllable but often leaves a significant urge to move. Motor degeneration precedes memory issues - so could explain why he is still playing a role in negociations, etc.

Definitely a possibility. However, the signs that have been most discussed and that could be interpreted as early/subtle clues on the video, point more to a potential cortical dementing process like AD (e.g., memory difficulties, language difficulties including mild word-finding problems, decreased fluency, and semantic paraphasias, as well as what one could argue constitute personality changes (increasingly withdrawn), rather than a subcortical dementing process like PD (e.g., bradyphrenia, much more pronounced motor dysfunction, more executive dysfunction & retrieval difficulties versus a rapid forgetting or memory consolidation issue).

My only other comment, based on the Elway press conference video is that his repetitive lip smacking/mouth movements - that again don’t seem as evident in earlier speeches, may be related to dry mouth – a very common side effect of cholinesterase inhibitors like Aricept, which are commonly prescribed to retard early cognitive difficulties.

Again, SPECULATIVE, which is apparently not allowed on here.

tsiguy96
03-22-2011, 02:36 PM
i think some people here want so badly to believe their own theory, that he is so close to gone and to prove them right, they will do anything and grasp at any piece of information to prove it. can anyone tell me how you can make ANY sort of even potential diagnosis based on less than an hours worth of press conference video over the last 3-4 years?

Bronco Vixen
03-22-2011, 03:46 PM
i think some people here want so badly to believe their own theory, that he is so close to gone and to prove them right, they will do anything and grasp at any piece of information to prove it. can anyone tell me how you can make ANY sort of even potential diagnosis based on less than an hours worth of press conference video over the last 3-4 years?

I just don't get this position. It is a gigantic stretch from people wanting to simply discuss a particularly possibility to trying to prove a "theory" at any cost. That doesn't make any sense to me and I have no idea why or how one could formulate that opinion based on what has been written thus far.

I have no horse in this race. From a personal perspective, I think anyone in their right mind hopes that Mr. Bowlen is perfectly healthy and will continue to live a long and happy life. Just because one wants to discuss the possibility that this is not the case doesn't mean that they are "doing anything" to prove a theory. Isn't that what forums like this are about? SPECULATING and DISCUSSING topics??

Like I painstakingly tried to articulate in my previous post, I'm not trying to make any definitive diagnostic claims. I'm simply trying to discuss possibilities based on a number of different pieces of evidence - that of course can be interpreted in a number of ways. That is why I would never doggedly attack anyone else who may interpret the same evidence differently. But in my opinion it is at least worthy of discussion.

It is MY OPINION that the now multiple sources who have independently claimed that Mr. Bowlen has experienced some change in his mental status warrants some attention at the very least, and is not simply "a coincidence," or alternatively a reflection of some large conspiracy to completely fabricate something that has no truth to it whatsoever. To me, that makes no sense. What would the rationale be for making something like this up? What do any of these people gain? Criticize these buffoons like Reilly and Paige and this new tweeter all you want for their questionable writing skills and their even more questionable lack of judgment or integrity for making claims like this publicly in the first place given their professions, but again, I don't see much upside to completely making up facts - even for these guys. Also, as I have said in the past on this forum, I have heard personally from friends and colleagues that Mr. Bowlen has almost entirely withdrawn socially within the past couple of years - separate from his public withdrawal.

These claims, coupled by his own admission that he has had memory difficulties (again, this could be explained away that he was joking or that this info was taken out of context - and why I wouldn't disparage someone for having that view), his GLARING absence publicly during the incredible turmoil that his team has gone through these past couple of years (a marked change from how he handled things in the past) - which again I would fully entertain an alternative explanation for this - but have not yet really heard one, seeing what I would characterize as significant changes in his expressive verbal abilities (verbal fluency) over the past 3-4 years based on these public speaking videos - including the fact that he no longer puts himself in the position to field questions on the spot from the press, and finally the reports that he is no longer involved in most of the financial and daily operations of the business. I guess you could explain that by saying he is retiring or pulling back but I still don't understand the almost complete withdrawal socially & publicly.

Taken all together - I think there is something at the very least to discuss. That is all I am saying. No definitive diagnosis. No dogged backing of a position just to prove myself right "at any cost." Just an open discussion about this seeing a how these things do not exist in isolation.

serious hops
03-22-2011, 04:11 PM
But why, why??!!


Explain it one more time, maybe he'll actually understand it this time.


:pimp:

TheProfessor
03-22-2011, 05:11 PM
To be fair, you have what? maybe a minute or two of Bowlen footage a month to base this off of? Pretty weak sample size to say the least. I'm guessing you had a tad more exposure to your dad.

Probably why I said FWIW...

But along those lines the Dr's who also had a "tad more exposure to him" mis-diagnosed his disease for several years, so I doubt any of us have any chance of succesfully guessing Bowlens condition.

I'll leave my own online diagnosis at this... There isn't a chance in hell my dad could have gotten in front of a bunch of cameras and delivered any kind of speech for the last 3 years.

Soul-Bronco
03-22-2011, 07:13 PM
Probably why I said FWIW...

But along those lines the Dr's who also had a "tad more exposure to him" mis-diagnosed his disease for several years, so I doubt any of us have any chance of succesfully guessing Bowlens condition.

I'll leave my own online diagnosis at this... There isn't a chance in hell my dad could have gotten in front of a bunch of cameras and delivered any kind of speech for the last 3 years.

I completely agree, I was going to say something along the lines of " Hey professor would your dad of been able to go in front of the media for Elway’s press conference"? but i know how touchy this subject is and how devastating this disease can be to the family so I left it alone. So thanks for sharing that comment.

Like I said in the my above post, anyone claiming dementia or Alzheimer’s has no idea what they’re talking about. There is no way in hell Bowlen could represent the owners during the CBA negotiations, attend the owners meeting in NO, and in the same day not remember how to get in their car. This disease doesn’t hold back any punches and it would be clear as day to see.

Soul-Bronco
03-22-2011, 07:17 PM
To be fair, you have what? maybe a minute or two of Bowlen footage a month to base this off of? Pretty weak sample size to say the least. I'm guessing you had a tad more exposure to your dad.

Sample size? Are you serious dude? this isn’t a survey or questionnaire where you have to compare statistics, this is the human body and even more importantly the human brain.

Go to YouTube and look up dementia/Alzheimer’s, after you watch some tape you will see the difference between bowlen and people who are fighting these horrible dieases.

Jetmeck
03-22-2011, 07:31 PM
I just don't get this position. It is a gigantic stretch from people wanting to simply discuss a particularly possibility to trying to prove a "theory" at any cost. That doesn't make any sense to me and I have no idea why or how one could formulate that opinion based on what has been written thus far.

I have no horse in this race. From a personal perspective, I think anyone in their right mind hopes that Mr. Bowlen is perfectly healthy and will continue to live a long and happy life. Just because one wants to discuss the possibility that this is not the case doesn't mean that they are "doing anything" to prove a theory. Isn't that what forums like this are about? SPECULATING and DISCUSSING topics??

Like I painstakingly tried to articulate in my previous post, I'm not trying to make any definitive diagnostic claims. I'm simply trying to discuss possibilities based on a number of different pieces of evidence - that of course can be interpreted in a number of ways. That is why I would never doggedly attack anyone else who may interpret the same evidence differently. But in my opinion it is at least worthy of discussion.

It is MY OPINION that the now multiple sources who have independently claimed that Mr. Bowlen has experienced some change in his mental status warrants some attention at the very least, and is not simply "a coincidence," or alternatively a reflection of some large conspiracy to completely fabricate something that has no truth to it whatsoever. To me, that makes no sense. What would the rationale be for making something like this up? What do any of these people gain? Criticize these buffoons like Reilly and Paige and this new tweeter all you want for their questionable writing skills and their even more questionable lack of judgment or integrity for making claims like this publicly in the first place given their professions, but again, I don't see much upside to completely making up facts - even for these guys. Also, as I have said in the past on this forum, I have heard personally from friends and colleagues that Mr. Bowlen has almost entirely withdrawn socially within the past couple of years - separate from his public withdrawal.

These claims, coupled by his own admission that he has had memory difficulties (again, this could be explained away that he was joking or that this info was taken out of context - and why I wouldn't disparage someone for having that view), his GLARING absence publicly during the incredible turmoil that his team has gone through these past couple of years (a marked change from how he handled things in the past) - which again I would fully entertain an alternative explanation for this - but have not yet really heard one, seeing what I would characterize as significant changes in his expressive verbal abilities (verbal fluency) over the past 3-4 years based on these public speaking videos - including the fact that he no longer puts himself in the position to field questions on the spot from the press, and finally the reports that he is no longer involved in most of the financial and daily operations of the business. I guess you could explain that by saying he is retiring or pulling back but I still don't understand the almost complete withdrawal socially & publicly.

Taken all together - I think there is something at the very least to discuss. That is all I am saying. No definitive diagnosis. No dogged backing of a position just to prove myself right "at any cost." Just an open discussion about this seeing a how these things do not exist in isolation.



Because simply put there is nothing here to discuss. Pat is and always has been clumsy, awkward and just plain nervous in front of people and the cameras. This is normal for him.

I know this because I have been a Broncos fans for years and any announcement of anything Broncos I paid great attention to. He has not changed in any way shape or form.

To say otherwise is an uninformed opinion based on no facts of any kind...............from someone who doesn't know or hasn't watched Pat through the years.

Like a bunch of old women at the Sunday services some of you have to have something to swisper and talk about I guess.

Bronco Vixen
03-22-2011, 07:33 PM
Like I said in the my above post, anyone claiming dementia or Alzheimer’s has no idea what they’re talking about. There is no way in hell Bowlen could represent the owners during the CBA negotiations, attend the owners meeting in NO, and in the same day not remember how to get in their car. This disease doesn’t hold back any punches and it would be clear as day to see.

This is just flat out wrong. Particularly if he is in the early stages of disease (which incidentally, no one is definitely claiming):
http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_stages_of_alzheimers.asp

AGAIN, not diagnosing anything - just wanting to have a reasonable discussion about the POSSIBILITY.

And believe me, I DO KNOW what I'm talking about. IF he is in the early stages of the disease - he would not necessarily show clear signs of any functional decline - and depending on the task, would be able to do a number of things without many knowing there was anything wrong - as the link I provided clearly outlines.

The disease is PROGRESSIVE. You don't wake up and show clear debilitating signs over night.

BTW Professor, I'm very sorry about your Dad.

Bronco Vixen
03-22-2011, 07:36 PM
Because simply put there is nothing here to discuss. Pat is and always has been clumsy, awkward and just plain nervous in front of people and the cameras. This is normal for him.

I know this because I have been a Broncos fans for years and any announcement of anything Broncos I paid great attention to. He has not changed in any way shape or form.

To say otherwise is an uninformed opinion based on no facts of any kind...............from someone who doesn't know or hasn't watched Pat through the years.

Like a bunch of old women at the Sunday services some of you have to have something to swisper and talk about I guess.

I sincerely hope you are correct.

Jetmeck
03-22-2011, 07:37 PM
This is just flat out wrong. Particularly if he is in the early stages of disease (which incidentally, no one is definitely claiming):
http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_stages_of_alzheimers.asp

AGAIN, not diagnosing anything - just wanting to have a reasonable discussion about the POSSIBILITY.

And believe me, I DO KNOW what I'm talking about. IF he is in the early stages of the disease - he would not necessarily show clear signs of any functional decline - and depending on the task, would be able to do a number of things without many knowing there was anything wrong - as the link I provided clearly outlines.

The disease is PROGRESSIVE. You don't wake up and show clear debilitating signs over night.

BTW Professor, I'm very sorry about your Dad.



IF being the key word...................IF...IF....IF....IF

Bronco Vixen
03-22-2011, 07:38 PM
IF being the key word...................IF...IF....IF....IF

Yes, never have claimed otherwise.

OABB
03-22-2011, 07:57 PM
IF being the key word...................IF...IF....IF....IF

Hence, the bolding.

Dr. Broncenstein
03-22-2011, 07:57 PM
Because simply put there is nothing here to discuss. Pat is and always has been clumsy, awkward and just plain nervous in front of people and the cameras. This is normal for him.

I know this because I have been a Broncos fans for years and any announcement of anything Broncos I paid great attention to. He has not changed in any way shape or form.

To say otherwise is an uninformed opinion based on no facts of any kind...............from someone who doesn't know or hasn't watched Pat through the years.

Like a bunch of old women at the Sunday services some of you have to have something to swisper and talk about I guess.

In typical Orange Mane fashion, the neuropsychologist's opinion on a neurological / psychological issue is written off as "uninformed and based on no facts of any kind."

OABB
03-22-2011, 08:04 PM
In typical Orange Mane fashion, the neuropsychologist's opinion on a neurological / psychological issue is written off as "uninformed and based on no facts of any kind."

This.

Perhaps if vixen had a cousin on the light rail who told her all that, it would have had more credibility.

Soul-Bronco
03-22-2011, 08:17 PM
This is just flat out wrong. Particularly if he is in the early stages of disease (which incidentally, no one is definitely claiming):
http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_stages_of_alzheimers.asp

AGAIN, not diagnosing anything - just wanting to have a reasonable discussion about the POSSIBILITY.

And believe me, I DO KNOW what I'm talking about. IF he is in the early stages of the disease - he would not necessarily show clear signs of any functional decline - and depending on the task, would be able to do a number of things without many knowing there was anything wrong - as the link I provided clearly outlines.

The disease is PROGRESSIVE. You don't wake up and show clear debilitating signs over night.BTW Professor, I'm very sorry about your Dad.

Which validates my point doesnt it? it doesnt happen overnight, so its impossible for him to be functional enough to speak infront of other owners on matters of the game/cba ( which would require a higher level of functioning which is the first to go with these dieases), then inturn not be functional enough to get into his car( which has been intergrated into the lower level "automatic" functioning of the brain due to the repetitions you get entering a car since the begining of childhood).

Bronco Vixen
03-25-2011, 10:24 AM
Which validates my point doesnt it? it doesnt happen overnight, so its impossible for him to be functional enough to speak infront of other owners on matters of the game/cba ( which would require a higher level of functioning which is the first to go with these dieases), then inturn not be functional enough to get into his car( which has been intergrated into the lower level "automatic" functioning of the brain due to the repetitions you get entering a car since the begining of childhood).

Yes! Excellent point and discussion worthy - thank you! At first I did not know to what you were referring with the car description and now I know it was from that questionable tweeting dude.

Anyway, you are absolutely correct, you would not expect such variability across domains of functioning. Even if one were to characterize his difficulty getting into the car as a sign of apraxia (http://www.dementiaguide.com/aboutdementia/alzheimers/apraxia/) (a higher order (i.e., cortical) motor symptom dysfunction that can be seen in mild forms relatively early on in the disease progression - but typically later on),
you would not also expect him to perform complex tasks like running owner's meetings if he is in fact doing that.

I would therefore say that a) the difficulty getting into the car description was complete BS and that guy must have been gooped up on the goofballs, b) the description was accurate and Bowlen is not really fully and independently engaged in the complexity of actually running the meetings, or c) somewhere in between.

I guess the bottom line for me is that the subject keeps coming up one way or the other in the media - right or wrong - and since this is a discussion forum, I figured discussing this topic was reasonable, and certainly not worthy of inciting attacks against one's knowledge or position.

Beantown Bronco
03-25-2011, 10:39 AM
I would therefore say that a) the difficulty getting into the car description was complete BS and that guy must have been gooped up on the goofballs, b) the description was accurate and Bowlen is not really fully and independently engaged in the complexity of actually running the meetings, or c) somewhere in between.

It's also possible he just pulled a muscle in his back or something like that. An unrelated physical injury that day or leading up to that day could have easily caused this and would allow him to "function" in a large meeting setting but make getting into a car.....or even walking around....very difficult. Being in physical pain like that would also explain why he supposedly "looked like crap" or whatever words the reporter used.

Bronco Vixen
03-25-2011, 10:43 AM
It's also possible he just pulled a muscle in his back or something like that. An unrelated physical injury that day or leading up to that day could have easily caused this and would allow him to "function" in a large meeting setting but make getting into a car.....or even walking around....very difficult. Being in physical pain like that would also explain why he supposedly "looked like crap" or whatever words the reporter used.

Absolutely. Also, spending an entire day with the likes of Jerry Jones et al., would surely take a toll on the best of us.

rugbythug
03-25-2011, 11:30 AM
In typical Orange Mane fashion, the neuropsychologist's opinion on a neurological / psychological issue is written off as "uninformed and based on no facts of any kind."

What if he was drunk

Beantown Bronco
03-25-2011, 11:40 AM
In typical Orange Mane fashion, the neuropsychologist's opinion on a neurological / psychological issue is written off as "uninformed and based on no facts of any kind."

When said neuropsychologist's opinion is based off of the same 5-10 minutes of chopped up video footage taken over a course of several years, without any real context, it would be wise to do just that.

I'm sure I could splice together 5 minutes of footage over the last few year's of pretty much any poster here's life and could make it look any way I wanted. I could have people convinced that said person was terminally depressed, full retard, psychotic....you name it. The sample size here is laughable at best and I'd expect a real neuropsychologist to acknowledge that before throwing around even a casual diagnosis.

Jetmeck
03-25-2011, 11:40 AM
As with anything you need a "BASELINE" or starting point. In this so called discussion of someone's health the "BASELINE" is the man is clumsy, nervous and in general a bad public speaker....i.e.....not fluent or eloquent in any way.
Regardless of how many PHD's someone has you have to evaluate a persons background and history and take that into account before you start dispensing diagnosis and presciptions ?

There has been a lot of speculation about how quiet he was during the MCDUMMY debacle. Well wouldn't you be kinda quiet if you were the man responsible for the disaster in question ? Well....duh

Bronco Vixen
03-25-2011, 11:56 AM
When said neuropsychologist's opinion is based off of the same 5-10 minutes of chopped up video footage taken over a course of several years, without any real context, it would be wise to do just that.

I'm sure I could splice together 5 minutes of footage over the last few year's of pretty much any poster here's life and could make it look any way I wanted. I could have people convinced that said person was terminally depressed, full retard, psychotic....you name it.

particularly given the crew here (myself included), a more representative sample you'd be hard pressed to find.

bendog
03-25-2011, 11:57 AM
As with anything you need a "BASELINE" or starting point. In this so called discussion of someone's health the "BASELINE" is the man is clumsy, nervous and in general a bad public speaker....i.e.....not fluent or eloquent in any way.
Regardless of how many PHD's someone has you have to evaluate a persons background and history and take that into account before you start dispensing diagnosis and presciptions ?

There has been a lot of speculation about how quiet he was during the MCDUMMY debacle. Well wouldn't you be kinda quiet if you were the man responsible for the disaster in question ? Well....duh

conversely though, he gave Shanny the big extension, and then turns around and fires him, costing himself millions, then turns around and hires McKid, when people were clammering for a defensive minded coach who'd keep Bates/Dennison/Turner, tells Lambchop and the press that Bates will be retained, only to back out of that, orders Lambchop be traded because Lambchop doesn't return his calls, which Lambchop's agent were returned..... and then fires McKid.

Bronco Vixen
03-25-2011, 12:00 PM
As with anything you need a "BASELINE" or starting point. In this so called discussion of someone's health the "BASELINE" is the man is clumsy, nervous and in general a bad public speaker....i.e.....not fluent or eloquent in any way.
Regardless of how many PHD's someone has you have to evaluate a persons background and history and take that into account before you start dispensing diagnosis and presciptions ?

You are absolutely correct. I was merely making an observation that even when taking into account Mr. Bowlen's baseline, there appeared to me to be an increase in clumsiness, nervousness, and "bad speakingness." Again, just my opinion - again, in no way was I dispensing diagnoses.

There has been a lot of speculation about how quiet he was during the MCDUMMY debacle. Well wouldn't you be kinda quiet if you were the man responsible for the disaster in question ? Well....duh

This is actually the most insightful point I've read on this discussion to date. Not sure anyone could argue with that!

Kaylore
03-25-2011, 12:33 PM
Bowlen drinks a lot. I always assume he's drunk. I remember he was interview before the AFCG against the Steelers and was beat red squinting into the camera mumbling incoherently.

I still laugh at how people think the "I don't remember the Super Bowls" was an admission to a physical condition and not as intended, meaning he was tired of living in the past. Re-read the whole article and that line specifically in context. If if Bowlen has Alzheimer's or whatever, that wasn't what he was talking about when he said that.

Until something formal is announced, I'm of the belief he drinks and is a poor public speaker.

Durango
03-25-2011, 12:46 PM
Bowlen drinks a lot. I always assume he's drunk. I remember he was interview before the AFCG against the Steelers and was beat red squinting into the camera mumbling incoherently.

I still laugh at how people think the "I don't remember the Super Bowls" was an admission to a physical condition and not as intended, meaning he was tired of living in the past. Re-read the whole article and that line specifically in context. If if Bowlen has Alzheimer's or whatever, that wasn't what he was talking about when he said that.

Until something formal is announced, I'm of the belief he drinks and is a poor public speaker.

Do they serve drinks at those owners conferences, and what i mean by that is; do they serve drinks while the conference is going on, because I don't understand how Bowlen might've become intoxicated directly out of the meeting?

Perhaps they all retired to the 'smoking room' after the meeting and Pat downed a few at that time. I'm not being sarcastic. I really don't know how those meetings work.

HAT
03-25-2011, 12:55 PM
Do they serve drinks at those owners conferences, and what i mean by that is; do they serve drinks while the conference is going on, because I don't understand how Bowlen might've become intoxicated directly out of the meeting?



Dude...This is an exclusive group of 32 billionaires. They can snort rails off a hooker's ass while getting oral from another in these meetings if they wanted.

And you're wondering if drinking is allowed?

Jetmeck
03-25-2011, 02:06 PM
Dude...This is an exclusive group of 32 billionaires. They can snort rails off a hooker's ass while getting oral from another in these meetings if they wanted.

And you're wondering if drinking is allowed?

I didn't know thats how Pat rolled........oh crap I should start another RUMOR thread.

"Pat Bowlen inappropriate behavior casts shadow upon Bronco organization.................he must be ill !"

Jetmeck
03-25-2011, 02:11 PM
Bowlen drinks a lot. I always assume he's drunk. I remember he was interview before the AFCG against the Steelers and was beat red squinting into the camera mumbling incoherently.

I still laugh at how people think the "I don't remember the Super Bowls" was an admission to a physical condition and not as intended, meaning he was tired of living in the past. Re-read the whole article and that line specifically in context. If if Bowlen has Alzheimer's or whatever, that wasn't what he was talking about when he said that.

Until something formal is announced, I'm of the belief he drinks and is a poor public speaker.

I dunno Kaylore but me thinks he needs a drink or two before he speaks in public.............he looks scared chitless.

Pat Bowlen
03-25-2011, 05:44 PM
Dude...This is an exclusive group of 32 billionaires. They can snort rails off a hooker's ass while getting oral from another in these meetings if they wanted.
Actually, no. There's a break room for that.

OABB
03-25-2011, 10:28 PM
When said neuropsychologist's opinion is based off of the same 5-10 minutes of chopped up video footage taken over a course of several years, without any real context, it would be wise to do just that.

I'm sure I could splice together 5 minutes of footage over the last few year's of pretty much any poster here's life and could make it look any way I wanted. I could have people convinced that said person was terminally depressed, full retard, psychotic....you name it. The sample size here is laughable at best and I'd expect a real neuropsychologist to acknowledge that before throwing around even a casual diagnosis.


Not true. I can tell you have pannis just from this one post.

Beantown Bronco
03-26-2011, 06:33 AM
Not true. I can tell you have pannis just from this one post.

What the hell is pannis?

OABB
03-26-2011, 07:05 AM
Sandy vagina.

Beantown Bronco
03-26-2011, 07:33 AM
Sandy vagina.

Wow. Odd given the source. At least half your posts here are attacks against other posters.

Thanks for adding value to the site.

OABB
03-26-2011, 11:37 AM
Wow. Odd given the source. At least half your posts here are attacks against other posters.

Thanks for adding value to the site.

Your welcome. I don't attack for no reason. Vixen said at least four different times that she was just throwing it out there fir discusion and it wasn't a diagnosis.

Four times.

Debates can go well granted people read posts and respond accordingly.

If they continue ignoring what someone said while harping on them, then, they will hear it from me.

If people have a conversation in adult form, I will be the last person attacking.

In fact i'd be ecstatic.

tsiguy96
03-26-2011, 11:39 AM
is john elway showing early signs of dementia? weve got atleast 30 minutes of footage of him, lets discuss.

rugbythug
03-26-2011, 01:53 PM
is john elway showing early signs of dementia? weve got atleast 30 minutes of footage of him, lets discuss.

How closely. Is hair loss related to dementia.

Shananahan
03-26-2011, 02:49 PM
If they continue ignoring what someone said while harping on them, then, they will hear it from me.

If people have a conversation in adult form, I will be the last person attacking.
"Behave like adults, everybody! Don't make me get childish!"

OABB
03-26-2011, 03:26 PM
"Behave like adults, everybody! Don't make me get childish!"

Can I have this for may avatar? It's pretty much my motto.

Shananahan
03-26-2011, 03:45 PM
You already do.

OABB
03-26-2011, 04:07 PM
You already do.

You mean my belt? That is just a sign of my intense awesomeness, Not a declaration of my motto. I feel your line will round it out nicely.

BBB1980
03-26-2011, 04:14 PM
I've got the feeling Elway will eventually become at least, a majority owner of the team...

He has elway and I beleive that is the very reason Elway is back withthe team, he will be the owner sooner than we al think.