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Rohirrim
03-17-2011, 03:41 PM
Just announced. UN Security Council passed no fly zone in a 10 to 0 vote. Expect bombing of air defense sites to begin soon.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42124388/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/

LonghornBronco
03-17-2011, 03:47 PM
http://consumerist.com/images/31/2008/11/Linux-Babies-Angry_01.jpg

Smiling Assassin27
03-17-2011, 03:48 PM
They are prepping Charlie Sheen as we speak.

kappys
03-17-2011, 03:53 PM
Obviously this is Obama's fault - just waiting for Epic to explain it to me

Rohirrim
03-17-2011, 03:55 PM
Obviously this is Obama's fault - just waiting for Epic to explain it to me

Obama was moving too slow.

Now, he's moving too fast.

They're waiting for him to move just right.

Like Goldilocks.

Inquisitive Encyclopedic Insomniac
03-17-2011, 03:59 PM
Obviously this is Obama's fault - just waiting for Epic to explain it to me

Of course it's Obama's fault. No wait we should balme Bush. Actually lets blame FDR I think he ruined the Middle East

Inkana7
03-17-2011, 04:29 PM
Not that I agree with this, but I'm a military aviation nut, so I can't want to see Libya's Mirages and MiG-23s get blasted out of the sky by Raptors they didn't-and never will-see.

Vegas_Bronco
03-17-2011, 04:36 PM
Bout time...just think of this as your own warning...our govt wont come to your aid until it appears you've lost the battle for democracy. What a contradiction in logic.

cutthemdown
03-17-2011, 05:34 PM
The only questions people asked were why the USA did not lead the effort, and why it took so long. There is a chance it is too little too late. Gaddaffi may just use tanks now instead of jets. One report said that he went all out with the airstrikes to get done what needed to be done prior to a no fly zone.

Hell maybe we wanted a bunch of the hardcore rebels to die before we entered. I am open minded because I used same logic to defend Bush. For all we know Obama a friggin Genius for playing it this way. We have no idea because we don't get CIA briefings. They may have told Obama look let it break down some more, some really bad guys are being killed right now. Guys who want to take Libya over when Gaddaffi falls. Let them be weakened a bit before we act.

I'm not defending the lack luster approach, only asking people to understand Obama gets 100 times more information then we do.

It sort of looks like maybe France wanted to take the lead to send a message, and USA let them. Not a bad idea considering Libya more there problem regionally then ours.

I'm starting to come around to the way Obama slow played this hand. I think it is important that even if we don't like the President we take the time to look at all the angles that may be presented, and be big enough to say maybe I called him a pussy on this topic a tad to quick.

Rock Chalk
03-17-2011, 05:35 PM
Bout time...just think of this as your own warning...our govt wont come to your aid until it appears you've lost the battle for democracy. What a contradiction in logic.
Im a firm believer that those that want freedom should, at first, begin the fight themselves. We can help, but they have to initiate it and we should only help if, without our help, their fight will fail.

That's how our revolution was. We started the fight, and suffered many setbacks and sacrificed a great deal before teh French came to help and without their help we would have failed.

cutthemdown
03-17-2011, 05:36 PM
Not that I agree with this, but I'm a military aviation nut, so I can't want to see Libya's Mirages and MiG-23s get blasted out of the sky by Raptors they didn't-and never will-see.

It Gaddaffi decides to go out with a bang maybe he attacks outside of Libya. He would fail IMO but you never know.

Cmac821
03-17-2011, 05:37 PM
Im a firm believer that those that want freedom should, at first, begin the fight themselves. We can help, but they have to initiate it and we should only help if, without our help, their fight will fail.

That's how our revolution was. We started the fight, and suffered many setbacks and sacrificed a great deal before teh French came to help and without their help we would have failed.

We are AmeriCAN we didn't need the french ;D (despite not being America yet, oh well. This no place for facts)

Rock Chalk
03-17-2011, 05:38 PM
We are AmeriCAN we don't need the french ;D

We did in the late 1700s.

Im no fan of teh Frog's but credit where credit is due. Without their Navy the filthy Redcoats would have overwhelmed us.

Cmac821
03-17-2011, 05:40 PM
We did in the late 1700s.

Im no fan of teh Frog's but credit where credit is due. Without their Navy the filthy Redcoats would have overwhelmed us.

I will grant you we were not America yet but no way did "they" help (sarcasm if you missed it)

Archer81
03-17-2011, 05:40 PM
That's how our revolution was. We started the fight, and suffered many setbacks and sacrificed a great deal before teh French came to help and without their help we would have failed.


Pretty much once it was obvious war was going to happen, we sent emissaries to the french. It took proving we could win on our own to secure french aid.


:Broncos:

Rock Chalk
03-17-2011, 05:44 PM
Pretty much once it was obvious war was going to happen, we sent emissaries to the french. It took proving we could win on our own to secure french aid.


:Broncos:
Well duh, you know the French aren't going to get into a war voluntarily :)

listopencil
03-17-2011, 05:46 PM
Bout time...just think of this as your own warning...our govt wont come to your aid until it appears you've lost the battle for democracy. What a contradiction in logic.

That's the way it should be. C'mon. We barely trust these idiots and assholes to run our own country, much less jump into the politics of another one unless the situation is crystal clear.

bombay
03-17-2011, 05:47 PM
It's about time we help those people!

Archer81
03-17-2011, 05:47 PM
Well duh, you know the French aren't going to get into a war voluntarily :)

True.

:Broncos:

NUB
03-17-2011, 06:29 PM
It's a cute resolution. Now they just need a no tank and artillery zone.

Chris
03-17-2011, 06:30 PM
Pretty much once it was obvious war was going to happen, we sent emissaries to the french. It took proving we could win on our own to secure french aid.


:Broncos:

Come on... we loved the French for over 100 years after. Lafayette was the Michael Jackson of his day.

oubronco
03-17-2011, 06:33 PM
Come on... we loved the French for over 100 years after. Lafayette was the Michael Jackson of his day.

I love French Fries and French Toast ;D

Kaylore
03-17-2011, 06:59 PM
If they were going to do this, they should have done it a week ago. Typical UN. Sit on your ass debating when you should move and then moving when it's too late. This is why the UN is borderline irrelevant.

Requiem
03-17-2011, 07:00 PM
Kaylore making international relations calls. Lame.

Kaylore
03-17-2011, 07:02 PM
Kaylore making international relations calls. Lame.

Your mom's lame.

Oh SNAPPP! :angel:

oubronco
03-17-2011, 07:03 PM
Your mom's lame.

Oh SNAPPP! :angel:

Oh Snap indeed ;D

Requiem
03-17-2011, 07:04 PM
Your mom's lame.

Oh SNAPPP! :angel:

I have two dads. :blueflame :thumbs: :flower: :cowgirl:

Garcia Bronco
03-17-2011, 07:12 PM
Unless they go in, they won't stop it

Requiem
03-17-2011, 07:13 PM
That is what she said.

Kaylore
03-17-2011, 07:44 PM
I have two dads. :blueflame :thumbs: :flower: :cowgirl:

You mom's so lame, she's a dad! :haw!:

lostknight
03-17-2011, 07:52 PM
The only questions people asked were why the USA did not lead the effort, and why it took so long. There is a chance it is too little too late. Gaddaffi may just use tanks now instead of jets. One report said that he went all out with the airstrikes to get done what needed to be done prior to a no fly zone.


Doesn't matter. Airplanes versus Tanks, Airplanes win every time.


Hell maybe we wanted a bunch of the hardcore rebels to die before we entered. I am open minded because I used same logic to defend Bush. For all we know Obama a friggin Genius for playing it this way. We have no idea because we don't get CIA briefings. They may have told Obama look let it break down some more, some really bad guys are being killed right now. Guys who want to take Libya over when Gaddaffi falls. Let them be weakened a bit before we act.


These guys were sowing American flags to beg for a cease-fire. Are there former Al Qaeda radicals there? Yep. They learned there lesson after we kicked their ass out of Iraq.


It sort of looks like maybe France wanted to take the lead to send a message, and USA let them. Not a bad idea considering Libya more there problem regionally then ours.


The french have always tried to weasel in whenever they see "American weakness." Remember Chirac's famous line about the position of leader of the free world being open during the Lewinski scandal?

Tombstone RJ
03-17-2011, 07:53 PM
Just announced. UN Security Council passed no fly zone in a 10 to 0 vote. Expect bombing of air defense sites to begin soon.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42124388/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/

The EU countries should lead this military action, not the US.

Pony Boy
03-17-2011, 08:35 PM
Thank you Hillary for growing a pair of balls........ Obama's balls are on vacation

Clinton has made similar “I’m not here forever” comments before – but it was the timing of her remarks to CNN on Wednesday that raised eyebrows, coming at a critical moment in her fierce internal battle to push President Barack Obama to join the fight to liberate Libya from Muammar Qadhafi.

Clinton’s position was vindicated early Thursday evening when the United Nations Security Council - at the urging of the United States - approved a resolution authorizing “all necessary measures” to protect Libyan civilians, including a no-fly zone. U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice told reporters that such a move could involve direct attacks on pro-Qadhafi forces now bearing down on the rebel stronghold of Benghazi in eastern Libya.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51515.html

cutthemdown
03-17-2011, 11:16 PM
Lostknight I may be wrong but I don't think this no fly zone will engage ground forces. They won't be attacking Gaddafi's tanks or even choppers often. They will shoot down jets and control civilian air traffic. They will destroy air defenses and airfields. I doubt though they destroy tanks. Thats a whole other ball game.

Chris
03-18-2011, 08:09 AM
Does anyone have a reason to believe the rebels can win at this point with just a no fly zone? They probably would have had we done this 3 weeks ago.

jhns
03-18-2011, 08:27 AM
Does anyone have a reason to believe the rebels can win at this point with just a no fly zone? They probably would have had we done this 3 weeks ago.

Is it just a no fly zone? Everything I see says a no fly zone and whatever else is needed to stop civilians from being killed.

Edit: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110317/ap_on_re_us/libya_diplomacy

The U.N. Security Council voted Thursday to impose a no-fly zone over Libya and authorize "all necessary measures" to protect civilians from attacks by Moammar Gadhafi's forces, hours after the Libyan leader vowed to crush the rebellion with a final assault on the opposition capital of Benghazi.

Chris
03-18-2011, 08:41 AM
Is it just a no fly zone? Everything I see says a no fly zone and whatever else is needed to stop civilians from being killed.

Edit: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110317/ap_on_re_us/libya_diplomacy

The U.N. Security Council voted Thursday to impose a no-fly zone over Libya and authorize "all necessary measures" to protect civilians from attacks by Moammar Gadhafi's forces, hours after the Libyan leader vowed to crush the rebellion with a final assault on the opposition capital of Benghazi.

I think it has to be more than that now. A no fly zone won't do much with them so close to Benghazi. I'm not sure what a ceasefire will do either. I suspect Gaddafi is just waiting for international attention to turn away before he rolls in and kills everyone in that city.

If I were the rebels right now I would provoke Gadaffi and bring the might of the world down on him.

lostknight
03-18-2011, 08:42 AM
Lostknight I may be wrong but I don't think this no fly zone will engage ground forces. They won't be attacking Gaddafi's tanks or even choppers often. They will shoot down jets and control civilian air traffic. They will destroy air defenses and airfields. I doubt though they destroy tanks. Thats a whole other ball game.

Looking at the text of the resolution, they have military authorization to do anything short of occupying the country. (Since there is already a force there that can do that, I wouldn't be surprised to see a repeat of the Afghanistan war, with a very few liaisons on the ground, and air power that takes out any tanks or heavy artillery).

Chris
03-18-2011, 08:44 AM
Do they need rebels to paint targets for them? How does that work? Anyone know?

Smiling Assassin27
03-18-2011, 08:48 AM
If America had a leader rather than a giant ball of passivity, the human toll could've been much less. Were his passivity simply because he was constructing an appropriate response, most here would be OK with that. Instead, it's more of the same--poorly timed words followed by incompetent and tentative actions that compromise lives and the image of our nation in the region.

Dude stands up and demands that Ghadafi leave power. Whether he has legitimate authority to demand this is a whole 'nother issue. Ghadafi responds by butchering his own people--many of them innocent civilians and women and children. All we hear from the administration is that a no-fly zone can't be done and is fraught with peril. So the president votes 'present' once again as more Libyans are killed by their own leader. To insult our military personnel by saying they are incapable of imposing a no-fly zone over the Libyan air force (a marginally effective one, at that) epitomizes this president.

Just as in any game or contest, there is a time and a place to act decisively and with commitment. That time was weeks ago in Libya. All you who called W a war criminal for perpetuating the death of innocents should now cross out the W and replace it with an O.

For a guy whose slogan was 'Yes, we can', he's sure full of a lot of 'I think we can't.'

lostknight
03-18-2011, 08:57 AM
I think it has to be more than that now. A no fly zone won't do much with them so close to Benghazi. I'm not sure what a ceasefire will do either. I suspect Gaddafi is just waiting for international attention to turn away before he rolls in and kills everyone in that city.


Actually, it seems like he is talking out of both sides of his mouth right now. attacking cities ringing Benghzai, while stating that there is a cease fire. I'm not sure if he is just trying to completely isolate Benghzai, or crush all response before military forces come up. It looks like land based forced will probably be based in Italy, but at 700 miles or so one way across the entire Mediterranean, that's not ideal. Gaddafi knows what the result is when US airpower encounters isolated forces in the open. Afghanistan, Iraq (first gulf war and Cobra II) make that abundantly clear.

It takes a while for proper forces to be in-theater. The US fleet assigned to the Mediterranean - the Sixth Fleet doesn't really exist. There are three carriers in this part of the world right now, with one leaving (Roosevelt) and one en-route (H.W. Bush). My guess is that they will keep the Eisenhower off of Iraq and Iran, and transition the Enterprise (currently on station), and give the newest carrier - the George H.W Bush - it's first combat assignment. The US navy doesn't like doing combat ops with only a single carrier, but they also have more baby carriers (LHDs/LHAs) then you can shake a stick at available.

My guess is that we will shortly see the emergence of a a few "government backed terrorists" that will continue the combat in a more gureilla style, similar to the Saddam Feyadeem in Iraq (which eventually became Anbar Al Aska).

Chris
03-18-2011, 09:19 AM
If America had a leader rather than a giant ball of passivity, the human toll could've been much less. Were his passivity simply because he was constructing an appropriate response, most here would be OK with that. Instead, it's more of the same--poorly timed words followed by incompetent and tentative actions that compromise lives and the image of our nation in the region.

Dude stands up and demands that Ghadafi leave power. Whether he has legitimate authority to demand this is a whole 'nother issue. Ghadafi responds by butchering his own people--many of them innocent civilians and women and children. All we hear from the administration is that a no-fly zone can't be done and is fraught with peril. So the president votes 'present' once again as more Libyans are killed by their own leader. To insult our military personnel by saying they are incapable of imposing a no-fly zone over the Libyan air force (a marginally effective one, at that) epitomizes this president.

Just as in any game or contest, there is a time and a place to act decisively and with commitment. That time was weeks ago in Libya. All you who called W a war criminal for perpetuating the death of innocents should now cross out the W and replace it with an O.

For a guy whose slogan was 'Yes, we can', he's sure full of a lot of 'I think we can't.'

Sadly have to agree. Beginning to think Hilary was the best choice because of a lot of examples of indecision... this is just the latest one.

C130Herkload
03-18-2011, 09:27 AM
I have been INSANELY busy over this guys antics for the past three mos....It will not let up. Between the Tunisa humanitarian movements to Egypt (Yes that was me and mine...) and the upcoming buffonnery that everyone seems to predict in the media....uggh. I'll be happy when this turd is flushed one way or another.

Cito Pelon
03-18-2011, 09:34 AM
If America had a leader rather than a giant ball of passivity, the human toll could've been much less. Were his passivity simply because he was constructing an appropriate response, most here would be OK with that. Instead, it's more of the same--poorly timed words followed by incompetent and tentative actions that compromise lives and the image of our nation in the region.

Dude stands up and demands that Ghadafi leave power. Whether he has legitimate authority to demand this is a whole 'nother issue. Ghadafi responds by butchering his own people--many of them innocent civilians and women and children. All we hear from the administration is that a no-fly zone can't be done and is fraught with peril. So the president votes 'present' once again as more Libyans are killed by their own leader. To insult our military personnel by saying they are incapable of imposing a no-fly zone over the Libyan air force (a marginally effective one, at that) epitomizes this president.

Just as in any game or contest, there is a time and a place to act decisively and with commitment. That time was weeks ago in Libya. All you who called W a war criminal for perpetuating the death of innocents should now cross out the W and replace it with an O.

For a guy whose slogan was 'Yes, we can', he's sure full of a lot of 'I think we can't.'

Well, you can't commit acts of war every time you want to, ya know.

Rohirrim
03-18-2011, 10:25 AM
If America had a leader rather than a giant ball of passivity, the human toll could've been much less. Were his passivity simply because he was constructing an appropriate response, most here would be OK with that. Instead, it's more of the same--poorly timed words followed by incompetent and tentative actions that compromise lives and the image of our nation in the region.

Dude stands up and demands that Ghadafi leave power. Whether he has legitimate authority to demand this is a whole 'nother issue. Ghadafi responds by butchering his own people--many of them innocent civilians and women and children. All we hear from the administration is that a no-fly zone can't be done and is fraught with peril. So the president votes 'present' once again as more Libyans are killed by their own leader. To insult our military personnel by saying they are incapable of imposing a no-fly zone over the Libyan air force (a marginally effective one, at that) epitomizes this president.

Just as in any game or contest, there is a time and a place to act decisively and with commitment. That time was weeks ago in Libya. All you who called W a war criminal for perpetuating the death of innocents should now cross out the W and replace it with an O.

For a guy whose slogan was 'Yes, we can', he's sure full of a lot of 'I think we can't.'

It's all so easy when you can just sit on the sidelines doing your ideological masturbation.

Tombstone RJ
03-18-2011, 10:30 AM
It's all so easy when you can just sit on the sidelines doing your ideological masturbation.

He's the president, this is his job. It doesn't take a genius to see that Obama is dragging his feet and looking rather apathetic about the whole situation.

Rigs11
03-18-2011, 10:32 AM
hey 40 protestors killed in Yemen by government snipers.Lets go in there too. What do you warhawks say?matter of fact lets go into all the countries that are having uprises.

jhns
03-18-2011, 10:35 AM
hey 40 protestors killed in Yemen by government snipers.Lets go in there too. What do you warhawks say?matter of fact lets go into all the countries that are having uprises.

We have a good supply of bombs. Lets go.

bowtown
03-18-2011, 10:36 AM
Wooooo!!! Nation Building party!

HAT
03-18-2011, 10:38 AM
It's all so easy when you can just sit on the sidelines doing your ideological masturbation.

It's even easier if you're POTUS.

Rohirrim
03-18-2011, 10:42 AM
He's the president, this is his job. It doesn't take a genius to see that Obama is dragging his feet and looking rather apathetic about the whole situation.

It's the U.S. president's job to send American troops every time somebody starts a revolution? When the **** did that happen? Yemen just killed a bunch of protesters yesterday. Where's our troops? Bahrain invited in the Saudi army and they killed the protesters for the Bahrain royals. We have an air base right there. Where's the troops? Hell, we invaded Kuwait to save their royals, are we going to join the protesters now? Which side should we pick? The Chinese have smashed a couple of protests (remember Tienamen Square) over the years. Let's send in the army.

I can never figure the Right Wing out. When they are running for office they always spout **** about non-intervention and no more nation building. And then, when the other party is in office, they start screaming that we need to invade every trouble spot on the globe. WTF? ???

Tombstone RJ
03-18-2011, 10:43 AM
The second the UN announced a no fly zone, the Libyan military and mercenaries supporting Gadhafi stopped their aggression and are now willing to talk. Again, this has as much to do with diplomacy as anything else.

Rigs11
03-18-2011, 10:44 AM
We have a good supply of bombs. Lets go.

what will those bombs cost? can we raise taxes to pay for it?

Rohirrim
03-18-2011, 10:47 AM
what will those bombs cost? can we raise taxes to pay for it?

Nah. We'll just cancel grandma's social security checks. ;D

Rigs11
03-18-2011, 10:49 AM
Nah. We'll just cancel grandma's social security checks. ;D

screw that! lets cut education!!;D

Tombstone RJ
03-18-2011, 10:50 AM
It's the U.S. president's job to send American troops every time somebody starts a revolution? When the **** did that happen? Yemen just killed a bunch of protesters yesterday. Where's our troops? Bahrain invited in the Saudi army and they killed the protesters for the Bahrain royals. We have an air base right there. Where's the troops? Hell, we invaded Kuwait to save their royals, are we going to join the protesters now? Which side should we pick? The Chinese have smashed a couple of protests (remember Tienamen Square) over the years. Let's send in the army.

I can never figure the Right Wing out. When they are running for office they always spout **** about non-intervention and no more nation building. And then, when the other party is in office, they start screaming that we need to invade every trouble spot on the globe. WTF? ???

I said it's about leadership and diplomacy broseff, I've continually said it's about convincing the Europeans to do something to help stop the slaughter.

Chris
03-18-2011, 10:50 AM
It's the U.S. president's job to send American troops every time somebody starts a revolution? When the **** did that happen? Yemen just killed a bunch of protesters yesterday. Where's our troops? Bahrain invited in the Saudi army and they killed the protesters for the Bahrain royals. We have an air base right there. Where's the troops? Hell, we invaded Kuwait to save their royals, are we going to join the protesters now? Which side should we pick? The Chinese have smashed a couple of protests (remember Tienamen Square) over the years. Let's send in the army.

I can never figure the Right Wing out. When they are running for office they always spout **** about non-intervention and no more nation building. And then, when the other party is in office, they start screaming that we need to invade every trouble spot on the globe. WTF? ???

The saudis didn't actually do any of the killing. They're in some sort of support role apparently. But the reason they're doing this is because Obama has shown weakness here.

bendog
03-18-2011, 10:52 AM
Well, the EU pulled Clinton kicking and screaming into Bosnia and Kosovo. I hate to see protestors die. Like others, I have questions of just how a no fly will allow the rebels to prevail. Egypt actually had a society that for decades had been educated and prepared for democracy, as did India. However, Egypt had Sadat assassinated which prematurely halted their lurching towards democracy. India had a similar episode with the Pakistani partition, and multiple wars of Hindu v. Muslim. I'm hopeful for Egypt because I don't think the Muslim Brotherhood has any interest in being a Taliban or Revolutionary Guard. I don't really see how Libya is prepared for a non-dicatorship/non-theocracy. And both of those forms of govt inherently become more authortarian as the leaders age. And no one has any interest in any more Iraqi nationbuilding crusades.

bendog
03-18-2011, 10:54 AM
The saudis didn't actually do any of the killing. They're in some sort of support role apparently. But the reason they're doing this is because Obama has shown weakness here.

Do you really think we want a democracy in saudi arabia deciding who gets the oil and how much it costs?

Tombstone RJ
03-18-2011, 10:59 AM
Well, the EU pulled Clinton kicking and screaming into Bosnia and Kosovo. I hate to see protestors die. Like others, I have questions of just how a no fly will allow the rebels to prevail. Egypt actually had a society that for decades had been educated and prepared for democracy, as did India. However, Egypt had Sadat assassinated which prematurely halted their lurching towards democracy. India had a similar episode with the Pakistani partition, and multiple wars of Hindu v. Muslim. I'm hopeful for Egypt because I don't think the Muslim Brotherhood has any interest in being a Taliban or Revolutionary Guard. I don't really see how Libya is prepared for a non-dicatorship/non-theocracy. And both of those forms of govt inherently become more authortarian as the leaders age. And no one has any interest in any more Iraqi nationbuilding crusades.

Fance has an aircraft carrier they can park right off the coast of Libya to enforce a no fly zone. Add to that air force bases in Italy (and maybe Greece) that European countries can fly from and there's no reason the European's can't do this. The US doesn't even need to be actively involved.

This is why the EU is such a freaking joke. Countries like France want to be a military force (they have a full size nuclear aircraft carrier) yet they don't want to actually do anything. When a crises hits in their own back yard, they sit on their thumbs and do nothing.

The US State Department has to convince these morons to do somthing. That takes diplomacy and leadership.

Rigs11
03-18-2011, 11:00 AM
Do you really think we want a democracy in saudi arabia deciding who gets the oil and how much it costs?

This.warhawks are so quick to overreact without thinking things through first.they have completely forgotten that the US armed the fighters in afghanistan years ago, the same ones we are fighting today.

Chris
03-18-2011, 11:04 AM
I haven't forgotten that at all. This is a movement for democracy. The rebellion already has a minor leadership structure. Afghanistan was a proxy fight against the Russians.

Also I don't see how a democratic SA would be dangerous to US oil interests. An islamist SA would be but as far as I know they're the most stable of all the countries right now.

If you want to defeat terrorism for good... a democratic middle east with a future gives you the best chance.

Cito Pelon
03-18-2011, 11:04 AM
He's the president, this is his job. It doesn't take a genius to see that Obama is dragging his feet and looking rather apathetic about the whole situation.

It is his job to get into every conflict on the planet with our military? Please.

I can see your point of view, I love a good fight, but I'm not so stupid to get into every one that I can.

Tombstone RJ
03-18-2011, 11:08 AM
It is his job to get into every conflict on the planet with our military? Please.

I can see your point of view, I love a good fight, but I'm not so stupid to get into every one that I can.

read my other posts, it's about diplomacy and leadership, for the friggen umpteenth time.

jhns
03-18-2011, 11:11 AM
what will those bombs cost? can we raise taxes to pay for it?

We have already paid for the supply of bombs that we have. We aren't getting a refund if we don't use them. I don't understand your question.

Cito Pelon
03-18-2011, 11:12 AM
The second the UN announced a no fly zone, the Libyan military and mercenaries supporting Gadhafi stopped their aggression and are now willing to talk. Again, this has as much to do with diplomacy as anything else.

What you said there doesn't mesh with what you said above, Tombstone.

jhns
03-18-2011, 11:16 AM
Nah. We'll just cancel grandma's social security checks. ;D

They should so I can stop paying a ton of money for social security that I will never see.

Cito Pelon
03-18-2011, 11:22 AM
read my other posts, it's about diplomacy and leadership, for the friggen umpteenth time.

Hey, Tomb, you said:

"The EU countries should lead this military action, not the US."

"He's the president, this is his job. It doesn't take a genius to see that Obama is dragging his feet and looking rather apathetic about the whole situation."

You left yourself open to attack.

Cito Pelon
03-18-2011, 11:26 AM
The big deal long term is neutralize the power of oil.

bendog
03-18-2011, 11:35 AM
I haven't forgotten that at all. This is a movement for democracy. The rebellion already has a minor leadership structure. Afghanistan was a proxy fight against the Russians.

Also I don't see how a democratic SA would be dangerous to US oil interests. An islamist SA would be but as far as I know they're the most stable of all the countries right now.

If you want to defeat terrorism for good... a democratic middle east with a future gives you the best chance.

I disagree. King Abudullah is actually more a reformer for that region. He actually has women going to medical school in SA. Bin Laden would blow up the school and cut the women's faces. There are only two muslim majority democracies: Iran and Pak.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not against them having democracies, but the US's interests in Israel and the spice is directly contrary to the wishes of the maj of middle east muslims. I think the world would be a much better place if we got off the spice and let Israel find a way to work with the maj of ME muslims. However, politically neither of those will happen.

Rohirrim
03-18-2011, 11:36 AM
The saudis didn't actually do any of the killing. They're in some sort of support role apparently. But the reason they're doing this is because Obama has shown weakness here.

I'm no fan of Obama's. In fact I think he's turned out to be a moderate Republican, like Bubba was. But I find it hard to understand when people say we should be sticking our nose in every bit of turmoil that pops up. For those who don't know it, we are broke. We are drowning in debt. That one trillion dollar debacle of waste in Iraq is unpaid. We are flushing billions daily down the toilet in Afghanistan. We are cutting off our own future by slicing education costs down to nothing.

They have their own reasons over there for everything they are doing that have absolutely nothing to do with their perception of Obama's strength, or lack of it. It's nice to think that when the president farts, the world trembles, but I assure you, that's not the case. Frankly, I doubt the people in Libya, Egypt, Bahrain, etc. give a **** about Obama's, or the rest of America's opinions on any of this ****. Their decision to launch these revolutions had very little to do with America, other than we created Facebook.

bendog
03-18-2011, 11:41 AM
I'm no fan of Obama's. In fact I think he's turned out to be a moderate Republican, like Bubba was. But I find it hard to understand when people say we should be sticking our nose in every bit of turmoil that pops up. For those who don't know it, we are broke. We are drowning in debt. That one trillion dollar debacle of waste in Iraq is unpaid. We are flushing billions daily down the toilet in Afghanistan. We are cutting off our own future by slicing education costs down to nothing.

They have their own reasons over there for everything they are doing that have absolutely nothing to do with their perception of Obama's strength, or lack of it. It's nice to think that when the president farts, the world trembles, but I assure you, that's not the case. Frankly, I doubt the people in Libya, Egypt, Bahrain, etc. give a **** about Obama's, or the rest of America's opinions on any of this ****. Their decision to launch these revolutions had very little to do with America, other than we created Facebook.

I blame Al Gore. (-:

Chris
03-18-2011, 11:43 AM
I strongly disagree. I don't think this is a little deal and clearly we are linked with the middle east since we are so dependent on their resources. Our global leadership is what separates us from China. As you can see I'm no isolationist.

Rohirrim
03-18-2011, 11:57 AM
I strongly disagree. I don't think this is a little deal and clearly we are linked with the middle east since we are so dependent on their resources. Our global leadership is what separates us from China. As you can see I'm no isolationist.

That's the real key. As long as we are dependent on their oil, they'll be jerking our chains, and like their dog, we will bark on command.

bendog
03-18-2011, 12:01 PM
I strongly disagree. I don't think this is a little deal and clearly we are linked with the middle east since we are so dependent on their resources. Our global leadership is what separates us from China. As you can see I'm no isolationist.

Neither am I. My only point is that the US's actions vis a vis Israel and the spice are not consistent with what a large number of ME mulsim's persceive as there best interests. Perhaps the views of the Taliban or the Supreme Council in Iran are a minority, but if so they have proven their ability to force their view upon the majority via the use of force and terror.

I'm a Christian humanist. I think that eventually peace and good will prevail if people are allowed free will. I think the world would be a better place even if a maj of ME muslims decided it was not in their interests to fuel the west's economies unless the US modified it's policies on Israel, women's rights, and the global marketing of products such as movies, software and communications. However, my view is extremely unpopular politically with a maj of Americans.

I think involving ourselves in determining whether one, or another, side wins in a civil war is opening pandorra's box. And, I think its clear that it's been catastrophic on the occassions when we did so: Israel in 47, Iran in the fifties, Afghan in the 80s and Iraq in the 00's. We have had limited success in furthering our national interests by supporting one foreign regieme against another foreign regieme.

Cito Pelon
03-18-2011, 12:07 PM
Fance has an aircraft carrier they can park right off the coast of Libya to enforce a no fly zone. Add to that air force bases in Italy (and maybe Greece) that European countries can fly from and there's no reason the European's can't do this. The US doesn't even need to be actively involved.

This is why the EU is such a freaking joke. Countries like France want to be a military force (they have a full size nuclear aircraft carrier) yet they don't want to actually do anything. When a crises hits in their own back yard, they sit on their thumbs and do nothing.

The US State Department has to convince these morons to do somthing. That takes diplomacy and leadership.

They got the UN off their ass to vote 10-0 to intervene for a no-fly zone.

Rigs11
03-18-2011, 12:19 PM
We have already paid for the supply of bombs that we have. We aren't getting a refund if we don't use them. I don't understand your question.

ahhh I see, will we have to replenish those bombs used?

Rohirrim
03-18-2011, 12:20 PM
They got the UN off their ass to vote 10-0 to intervene for a no-fly zone.

The criticisms of Obama are ideological, not fact based. Which is why the barrage of criticism never stops. It is not reliant on facts, simply on hatred. If you hate somebody enough, you can find fault in everything they do, no matter what.

Rigs11
03-18-2011, 12:23 PM
The criticisms of Obama are ideological, not fact based. Which is why the barrage of criticism never stops. It is not reliant on facts, simply on hatred. If you hate somebody enough, you can find fault in everything they do, no matter what.

yep, its what the right refers to as 'patriotism'

Cito Pelon
03-18-2011, 12:28 PM
The criticisms of Obama are ideological, not fact based. Which is why the barrage of criticism never stops. It is not reliant on facts, simply on hatred. If you hate somebody enough, you can find fault in everything they do, no matter what.

Yeah, some people think we run the world just at the snap of our finger, like there is no give and take.

It would be nice to be in that snap of the finger situation, but it's like being in a family, it never works that way. There's always somebody to f up that perfect situation you thought being Dad would bring you.

jhns
03-18-2011, 12:31 PM
ahhh I see, will we have to replenish those bombs used?

We do anyways. If we don't use them fast, they are junked and a new set replaces them. We can just throw them away over other countries rather than storing them in bunkers for eternity.

I don't know why I am still going on about this though. I was kidding with the bomb thing.

Obushma
03-18-2011, 12:56 PM
As you can see I'm no isolationist.

You're not a non-interventionist either.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/r-qm9U3X3EU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Cito Pelon
03-18-2011, 01:26 PM
Ron Paul is one of those fringe jackasses that barely knows what he's talking about 80% of the time. One of those fringe jackasses that unfortunately all free speaking civilizations have to deal with. And hopefully the middle carries enough weight to neutralize far-wingers like him.

Obushma
03-18-2011, 01:30 PM
Ron Paul is one of those fringe jackasses that barely knows what he's talking about 80% of the time. One of those fringe jackasses that unfortunately all free speaking civilizations have to deal with. And hopefully the middle carries enough weight to neutralize far-wingers like him.

That "fringe jackass" is about to shove the boot of liberty up Obama's ass. They guy who called the financial meltdown, and has been speaking about it for over 30 years, is only right 80% of the time? You need to pull your head out of the systems ass Pito.

Obushma
03-18-2011, 11:11 PM
Ron Paul is one of those fringe jackasses that barely knows what he's talking about 80% of the time. One of those fringe jackasses that unfortunately all free speaking civilizations have to deal with. And hopefully the middle carries enough weight to neutralize far-wingers like him.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4079/bluepill.jpg (http://img62.imageshack.us/i/bluepill.jpg/)

"The average man is a conformist, accepting miseries and disasters with the stoicism of a cow standing in the rain."-Colin Wilson

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/R325K6alVlA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Cito Pelon
03-19-2011, 07:36 AM
That "fringe jackass" is about to shove the boot of liberty up Obama's ass. They guy who called the financial meltdown, and has been speaking about it for over 30 years, is only right 80% of the time? You need to pull your head out of the systems ass Pito.

Well, I have to agree sometimes societies need fringe people to shake things up.

Chris
03-19-2011, 08:01 AM
The criticisms of Obama are ideological, not fact based. Which is why the barrage of criticism never stops. It is not reliant on facts, simply on hatred. If you hate somebody enough, you can find fault in everything they do, no matter what.

I'm a left leaning moderate that voted for the guy and I think he blew it here.

Cito Pelon
03-19-2011, 08:21 AM
I'm a left leaning moderate that voted for the guy and I think he blew it here.

What was he supposed to do? Unilateral intervention?

I can see a little tiny bit the criticism of doing nothing, but on the other hand it would be a tough call to just go banging our way into another conflict.

It looked like for a period of time there the opposition was making some good headway and didn't need outside help. And, if the US was to just go in there and support the opposition the opposition has that hanging over their head for perpetuity that the US was their backers, they couldn't do it on their own.

Broncos_OTM
03-19-2011, 08:22 AM
:We did in the late 1700s.

Im no fan of teh Frog's but credit where credit is due. Without their Navy the filthy Redcoats would have overwhelmed us.

I have aggreed with eveyr thing you have said in this thread.

Good Job!:thumbsup:

Rohirrim
03-19-2011, 08:45 AM
I'm a left leaning moderate that voted for the guy and I think he blew it here.

Right now, the American people are suffering greatly. And rather than use our resources to improve the lives our own people, we continue to cut and cut and cut and cut, while sending our jobs, our wealth and even our military defense overseas. If there is one lesson we can learn from history, it is that all empires fail. Our own attempt at empire is a failure. We cannot change the world through the exercise of military might. Our dabbling in the ME fifty years ago created the enemy in Iran. Afghanistan is going down the toilet. Iraq is in turmoil. We helped create the tyrants in Egypt who were just overthrown. Our support for the tyrants in Saudi Arabia turned the focus of Al Queda on us. We helped create the hijackers of 911 by our actions in Egyptian prisons.

This year it is North Africa. Where will it be next year? There is always blow-back. There is always the inevitable, unforeseen event. Remember when we drove to Baghdad so quickly that we couldn't secure the armories which were then pilfered by the resistance and the weapons used as IEDs against us for years? In video games, if our plane gets shot down, we simply launch another. In real life, maybe the pilot gets captured and beheaded on TV by Gaddafi loyalists, and then what? Full scale war? Another "insurgency" for a decade?

The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

baja
03-19-2011, 09:16 AM
Ron Paul is one of those fringe jackasses that barely knows what he's talking about 80% of the time. One of those fringe jackasses that unfortunately all free speaking civilizations have to deal with. And hopefully the middle carries enough weight to neutralize far-wingers like him.

Fact is he's the only one getting it right. So right I'm surprised they haven't silenced him, just goes to show you the handlers are so confident that the sheeple will continue to bury their heads in the sand they let Paul rant on.

Obushma
03-19-2011, 09:19 AM
Right now, the American people are suffering greatly. And rather than use our resources to improve the lives our own people, we continue to cut and cut and cut and cut, while sending our jobs, our wealth and even our military defense overseas. If there is one lesson we can learn from history, it is that all empires fail. Our own attempt at empire is a failure. We cannot change the world through the exercise of military might. Our dabbling in the ME fifty years ago created the enemy in Iran. Afghanistan is going down the toilet. Iraq is in turmoil. We helped create the tyrants in Egypt who were just overthrown. Our support for the tyrants in Saudi Arabia turned the focus of Al Queda on us. We helped create the hijackers of 911 by our actions in Egyptian prisons.

This year it is North Africa. Where will it be next year? There is always blow-back. There is always the inevitable, unforeseen event. Remember when we drove to Baghdad so quickly that we couldn't secure the armories which were then pilfered by the resistance and the weapons used as IEDs against us for years? In video games, if our plane gets shot down, we simply launch another. In real life, maybe the pilot gets captured and beheaded on TV by Gaddafi loyalists, and then what? Full scale war? Another "insurgency" for a decade?

The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Wow Ro, when you make a statement like this, you sound like that "fringe jackass" Ron Paul...You know, the guy who said 9/11 was actually blowback caused by our foreign policy. I'm proud of you, you're starting to see that the Neo wings of both parties, actually have the same interests at heart.

Way to take the red pill buddy.

baja
03-19-2011, 09:21 AM
Right now, the American people are suffering greatly. And rather than use our resources to improve the lives our own people, we continue to cut and cut and cut and cut, while sending our jobs, our wealth and even our military defense overseas. If there is one lesson we can learn from history, it is that all empires fail. Our own attempt at empire is a failure. We cannot change the world through the exercise of military might. Our dabbling in the ME fifty years ago created the enemy in Iran. Afghanistan is going down the toilet. Iraq is in turmoil. We helped create the tyrants in Egypt who were just overthrown. Our support for the tyrants in Saudi Arabia turned the focus of Al Queda on us. We helped create the hijackers of 911 by our actions in Egyptian prisons.

This year it is North Africa. Where will it be next year? There is always blow-back. There is always the inevitable, unforeseen event. Remember when we drove to Baghdad so quickly that we couldn't secure the armories which were then pilfered by the resistance and the weapons used as IEDs against us for years? In video games, if our plane gets shot down, we simply launch another. In real life, maybe the pilot gets captured and beheaded on TV by Gaddafi loyalists, and then what? Full scale war? Another "insurgency" for a decade?

The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Our only hope is Human Evolution. These practices will force us to evolve or become extinct, it is just a matter of time and that time is at hand.

baja
03-19-2011, 09:23 AM
Right now, the American people are suffering greatly. And rather than use our resources to improve the lives our own people, we continue to cut and cut and cut and cut, while sending our jobs, our wealth and even our military defense overseas. If there is one lesson we can learn from history, it is that all empires fail. Our own attempt at empire is a failure. We cannot change the world through the exercise of military might. Our dabbling in the ME fifty years ago created the enemy in Iran. Afghanistan is going down the toilet. Iraq is in turmoil. We helped create the tyrants in Egypt who were just overthrown. Our support for the tyrants in Saudi Arabia turned the focus of Al Queda on us. We helped create the hijackers of 911 by our actions in Egyptian prisons.

This year it is North Africa. Where will it be next year? There is always blow-back. There is always the inevitable, unforeseen event. Remember when we drove to Baghdad so quickly that we couldn't secure the armories which were then pilfered by the resistance and the weapons used as IEDs against us for years? In video games, if our plane gets shot down, we simply launch another. In real life, maybe the pilot gets captured and beheaded on TV by Gaddafi loyalists, and then what? Full scale war? Another "insurgency" for a decade?

The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Good to see you posting these realizations.

Cito Pelon
03-19-2011, 09:38 AM
Fact is he's the only one getting it right. So right I'm surprised they haven't silenced him, just goes to show you the handlers are so confident that the sheeple will continue to bury their heads in the sand they let Paul rant on.

Dang, man, you're the second one that lumped me in as a sheep on this page. Maybe I better get with the program, maybe I'm too set in my ways.

Missouribronc
03-19-2011, 02:24 PM
This reminds me of the situation in the mid-90s in Iraq. I hope the next President doesn't have to clean up this mess.

That One Guy
03-19-2011, 02:39 PM
I don't personally care whether we're involved or not. I'd rather we weren't, f everyone else, but I can see the benefit to getting in it. The worst thing he could do though is to walk the line of involvement. It makes the rebels thing we might intervene (just to later be disappointed if we don't, think Gulf War Iraqis), makes us look indecisive to the international world, and gets the opposition more likely to call our bluff. Speaking softly works best when the other person knows you're also carrying a big stick. If they think you don't have a stick or are scared to use it, speaking softly becomes chatter in the background.

Pretty simply - get involved or stay out. Just make a sound decision and stick to it.

C130Herkload
03-19-2011, 02:47 PM
You guys have no concept of how much this prick is dominating my life right now....

ghwk
03-19-2011, 03:05 PM
You guys have no concept of how much this prick is dominating my life right now....

Workin you a$$ off right now Herk?

C130Herkload
03-19-2011, 03:17 PM
Understated......

d bronx42
03-19-2011, 03:33 PM
Time for some Top Gun action....

http://www.grouchoreviews.com/content/films/3169/1.jpg

Meck77
09-03-2014, 10:55 AM
So where do you all suppose these 12 stolen planes "land"?



Libyan terrorists have posted pictures of themselves online posing with some of the aeroplanes taken from Tripoli airport after fighters seized it last month.
Soldiers from the group Libyan Dawn can be seen climbing on to the wings of commercial jets while smiling and waving for the camera.
U.S. officials fear that these aeroplanes could now be used to carry out 9/11-style attacks in the region on the anniversary of the tragedy this month.
A total of 11 commercial jets from state-owned carriers Libyan Airlines and Afriqiyah Airways went missing in August after militants from the so-called 'masked men brigade' overran the airport.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2741428/Officials-warn-ELEVEN-missing-airplanes-Libya-used-carry-terrorist-attack-9-11-anniversary.html#ixzz3CHCsBRAb
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2741428/Officials-warn-ELEVEN-missing-airplanes-Libya-used-carry-terrorist-attack-9-11-anniversary.html

mennonite
09-03-2014, 10:59 AM
No worries guys. I'm sure ISIS is just going to use these planes for a hilarious remake of NBC's 90s hit sitcom "Wings."

bronco militia
09-03-2014, 11:01 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/4Z9jjzFzG-g?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

broncocalijohn
09-03-2014, 11:02 AM
Maybe meet up with the airline that went "missing" a few months ago? Those airlines might head to strategic targets close in range where they are now. They won't be flying to America in my opinion.

Smiling Assassin27
09-03-2014, 11:06 AM
VERY reassuring considering September 11 is just around the corner.

TonyR
09-03-2014, 11:19 AM
...aeroplanes...

"Aeroplanes". Brits are funny.

GoneFishin'
09-03-2014, 06:51 PM
Well if the media and our benevolent government tells me ISIS is the new boogeyman then sign me up for the next 2 Minutes of Hate.

mennonite
09-03-2014, 06:52 PM
Well if the media and our benevolent government tells me ISIS is the new boogeyman then sign me up for the next 2 Minutes of Hate.

http://i.imgur.com/SYYNL8R.jpg

GoneFishin'
09-03-2014, 06:56 PM
You should go watch that video of ISIS beheading that reporter.

It looked pretty fake to me. I thought I was watching a CBS primetime show or something.

orinjkrush
09-03-2014, 07:33 PM
wonder what would happen if we did that to them?

Requiem
09-03-2014, 07:46 PM
All members of ISIS should be invited to a GWAR show. I think that will change their mind on America.

Inkana7
09-03-2014, 07:53 PM
All members of ISIS should be invited to a GWAR show. I think that will change their mind on America.

GWAR's frontman died this year :(

Archer81
09-03-2014, 07:54 PM
wonder what would happen if we did that to them?


Add it to the list of things done to them since Mohammed decided to drag his pedobear ass out of the Arabian desert.


:Broncos:

Inkana7
09-03-2014, 07:55 PM
let us never forget this Great Moment in American TV, however:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/sWRKlNlRsgI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Meck77
09-03-2014, 07:59 PM
Maybe meet up with the airline that went "missing" a few months ago? Those airlines might head to strategic targets close in range where they are now. They won't be flying to America in my opinion.

You don't think they would try? If they did would our military have the guts to pull a Putin/Russia and blast a commercial airliner out of the sky?

Are these guys really just going to sit on 12 airliners and not use them for war?

These things are going to have to "land' somewhere.

Requiem
09-03-2014, 08:01 PM
GWAR's frontman died this year :(

I was able to see them before Obama's first election against McCain in 2008 when they played up in Fargo. I had never been to a GWAR concert before and I was wearing a brand new polo I had just bought a few hours before the show. My friend Matt who picked me up was like, "Dude, I got an extra white t-shirt -- you should really change."

"I'll be fine." -- My response. I HAD NO CLUE. . . what madness would ensue. At any case, this happened and my FSU hat and polo and were never worn again:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/1924195_538405374489_9255_n.jpg?oh=3812501f208223b 8f32e2c658639288e&oe=5479D1C7&__gda__=1416588033_4698cbd950a544cf2a52b4735345491 5

As far as I know now, no original GWAR members are in the band, which kind of sucks. I am trying to get free tickets to their show up here in a few weeks, but I won't ever pay to see them again. They weren't that good live, just entertaining with their shenanigans. Good experience nonetheless.

broncocalijohn
09-03-2014, 08:16 PM
You don't think they would try? If they did would our military have the guts to pull a Putin/Russia and blast a commercial airliner out of the sky?

Are these guys really just going to sit on 12 airliners and not use them for war?

These things are going to have to "land' somewhere.

They don't need to go to America to make their point. Where did I say they wouldn't be flying against us? I would bet they would hit embassies of ours (and our allies) before they try to come to America. Maybe take out a huge Oil refinery to send up the price of gas, hit a military base, hit a country closer to where they are hiding the planes and of course we can't forget the possibility of Israel.

Shattuck
09-03-2014, 08:23 PM
I'm no fan of Obama's. In fact I think he's turned out to be a moderate Republican, like Bubba was. But I find it hard to understand when people say we should be sticking our nose in every bit of turmoil that pops up. For those who don't know it, we are broke. We are drowning in debt. That one trillion dollar debacle of waste in Iraq is unpaid. We are flushing billions daily down the toilet in Afghanistan. We are cutting off our own future by slicing education costs down to nothing.

They have their own reasons over there for everything they are doing that have absolutely nothing to do with their perception of Obama's strength, or lack of it. It's nice to think that when the president farts, the world trembles, but I assure you, that's not the case. Frankly, I doubt the people in Libya, Egypt, Bahrain, etc. give a **** about Obama's, or the rest of America's opinions on any of this ****. Their decision to launch these revolutions had very little to do with America, other than we created Facebook.

Glad he "turned out to be a moderate republican" I would hate to see how bad a full blown liberal could wreck this country. No doubt he will go down as one of the worst Presidents ever. He was in way over his head from day one.

ZONA
09-03-2014, 08:54 PM
Broncos 27
Colts 16

Smiling Assassin27
09-05-2014, 10:29 AM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>UNRESPONSIVE JET
- Business jet
- East of Florida, approaching Cuba
- Trailed by fighter jets
- No response, possible hypoxia</p>&mdash; PzFeed Top News (@PzFeed) <a href="https://twitter.com/PzFeed/status/507941031443062784">September 5, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>UPDATE: The unresponsive aircraft is getting a bit erratic. Now approaching Cuba, NORAD F-15 jets still trailing.</p>&mdash; PzFeed Top News (@PzFeed) <a href="https://twitter.com/PzFeed/status/507943079144599552">September 5, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Pony Boy
09-05-2014, 10:37 AM
I hope the Broncos establish a No Fly Zone against the Colts

Gutless Drunk
09-05-2014, 10:40 AM
This thread seems strangely out of place.