PDA

View Full Version : Transparency to new level: Broncos willing to open books


tsiguy96
03-12-2011, 09:08 PM
per PFT:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/12/broncos-are-willing-to-open-their-books/

Missouribronc
03-12-2011, 09:12 PM
They are full of ****.

NFLBRONCO
03-12-2011, 09:19 PM
:):)

epicSocialism4tw
03-12-2011, 09:38 PM
This is some pathetic analysis here:

"We still don’t know why any of this would make an owner “angry,” apart from the fact that some really rich people are very accustomed to getting their way, and they get “angry” on those rare occasions when they don’t."

So this is the best analysis that guy can come up with? "Owners are mad because they dont want to give up money"...that's some deep insight there!

Maybe he'll come at us with another gem along these lines: "Players are mad because they dont want to give up money".

Requiem
03-12-2011, 09:40 PM
Too little, too late. I'm not sure if Hillis will ever be able to read.

lostknight
03-12-2011, 09:53 PM
Josh McDaniels was very bad for business. Remember that while general seats were sold out - and revenue shared - luxury seats were neither, and significantly lower now then they were two years ago.

Hercules Rockefeller
03-12-2011, 09:56 PM
Josh McDaniels was very bad for business. Remember that while general seats were sold out - and revenue shared - luxury seats were neither, and significantly lower now then they were two years ago.

The luxury boxes have never sold out

tsiguy96
03-12-2011, 09:56 PM
The luxury boxes have never sold out

dont let facts get in the way of this argument.

SoCalBronco
03-12-2011, 09:59 PM
I look forward to the day when we never have to read Joe Ellis quotes anymore.

baja
03-12-2011, 10:02 PM
I look forward to the day when we never have to read Joe Ellis quotes anymore.

Ya I don't like him either, just don't!

epicSocialism4tw
03-12-2011, 11:55 PM
I look forward to the day when we never have to read Joe Ellis quotes anymore.

Its weird. No question.

KipCorrington25
03-13-2011, 12:41 AM
McDaniels was a loser though, that's a fact.

epicSocialism4tw
03-13-2011, 12:44 AM
McDaniels was a loser though, that's a fact.

He's clearly bi-winning.

footstepsfrom#27
03-13-2011, 12:54 AM
"This is about the costs of player compensation, stadium operations and game promotions increasing at a far greater rate than owner profitability."

So costs are outpacing profits huh? Welcome to the real world boys, the one where a lot of people these days can't afford $250 tickets, $60 parking and $5 bottled water to watch a game they can watch for free on the boob tube.

CEH
03-13-2011, 09:28 AM
If the league decides they want to open up the books of the Denver Broncos to present them to the union I don't know if the league is into identifying individual clubs because they're private businesses," Ellis said. "But with a neutral (auditor) to verify the fact that certain teams haven't been operating as effectively as they did in the past, we're a willing and able participant.'

The fact Denver want to open its books to me verifies that Bowlen has financial issues when it comes to operating and competing with other owners in the league

Is he poor/broke? No but in relationship to the other owners sounds like he is in some sort of trouble

This has been my stance on Bowlen for a while now backed up with his willingness to go public

HILife
03-13-2011, 09:36 AM
He's clearly bi-winning.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pipTwjwrQYQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

teknic
03-13-2011, 11:32 AM
I see the dispute between the owners and players being caused by the fact that some owners not being able to generate enough profit to be competitive, while some owners can turn very large profits without much effort.

The NFL offers that many individual team revenues have fallen under the current CBA, and some owners are willing to open their books to facilitate a new deal. The reality is that there are many different reasons for a decline in revenues and profit margins, including paying off new stadium leases, losing teams tend to get smaller TV contracts and fewer prime time games, poor performance teams sell less merchandise, etc.

The single largest contribution to a team's revenue results from making the playoffs, so my take on the current problem is that the CBA had allowed salaries of players, especially first round picks, to escalate to the point that teams that finish in the bottom third of the league have trouble paying them the salaries they ask for. The problem is that the teams that finish in the top third of the league and make the playoffs regularly are still making huge profits compared to the lower tier teams and are able to spend to the cap every season. So for every team losing money like the Jags, the players can point to a team doing exceedingly well like the Cowboys.

I suggest a few compromises to resolve the situation and get football season going again!

-Forget about the 18 game season, at least for now. I personally do not want an 18 game season, but the players are dead set against it and it's not worth the time to discuss when there are bigger issues. The owners have admitted that the current preseason system isn't ideal, so I suggest following other leagues and reducing the price of preseason game tickets. Set preseason tickets to 60% of the cost of regular tickets and you suddenly gain a whole new demographic to market to. When more people can afford to go to games, that's a good thing for individual teams, as well as the NFL as a whole. You'd have to think 40,000 people attending a preseason game for 60% of the full price and buying food and merchandise is a better scenario than pretty much just season ticket holders, or the people they gave their tickets to, attending the games. Also, how about we add a bye week at the end of the season for all playoff teams. Players are beat-up by the end of the season and would love to have that week off (you'll see why I mention this later.)

-The current CBA clearly creates an environment where the rich get richer and the poor struggle to generate the revenues to remain competitive. I do not think revenue sharing is the answer, that just fosters a less competitive market in the long run. I suggest a change to the current playoff system in the NFL to increase revenue for the league. While I do like the current playoff system, I think an 8 seeds per conference system would be great too. No teams get an automatic bye, so the chance for upsets increase. With the additional bye week at the end of the season, it helps maintain a fair playing field in the playoffs. Selling those extra playoff games to the networks would generate enough revenue for the league to accommodate most of the players' demands. This little change would create 4 new playoff games to 15 from the current system that has 11. Offer the players 50% of the revenue generated under this increased revenue system as the salary floor, and I think that would be fair for both sides. This also makes it easier for a deserving team to make the playoffs. The past couple of years, a couple teams missed by the tiebreaker, or one game, when they easily deserved to be there over a team that made it.

-To offset a fixed rookie-compensation system, increase the veteran minimum and invest in future medical insurance for players and retired players.

HAT
03-13-2011, 01:38 PM
Josh McDaniels was very bad for business.

Damn those Tebow jersey & ticket sales!!!

When it's all said and done....Josh McDaniels will be responsible for a huge amount revenue for the Denver Broncos.

epicSocialism4tw
03-13-2011, 01:48 PM
Damn those Tebow jersey & ticket sales!!!

When it's all said and done....Josh McDaniels will be responsible for a huge amount revenue for the Denver Broncos.

He already has been.

Tebow sold a ton of jerseys last year.

gyldenlove
03-13-2011, 02:09 PM
The luxury boxes have never sold out

He never claimed they were, he just claimed they were not selling as well now as before.

oubronco
03-13-2011, 02:21 PM
Ellis furious over union's actions


http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17603586

gyldenlove
03-13-2011, 02:23 PM
I see the dispute between the owners and players being caused by the fact that some owners not being able to generate enough profit to be competitive, while some owners can turn very large profits without much effort.

The NFL offers that many individual team revenues have fallen under the current CBA, and some owners are willing to open their books to facilitate a new deal. The reality is that there are many different reasons for a decline in revenues and profit margins, including paying off new stadium leases, losing teams tend to get smaller TV contracts and fewer prime time games, poor performance teams sell less merchandise, etc.

The single largest contribution to a team's revenue results from making the playoffs, so my take on the current problem is that the CBA had allowed salaries of players, especially first round picks, to escalate to the point that teams that finish in the bottom third of the league have trouble paying them the salaries they ask for. The problem is that the teams that finish in the top third of the league and make the playoffs regularly are still making huge profits compared to the lower tier teams and are able to spend to the cap every season. So for every team losing money like the Jags, the players can point to a team doing exceedingly well like the Cowboys.

I suggest a few compromises to resolve the situation and get football season going again!

-Forget about the 18 game season, at least for now. I personally do not want an 18 game season, but the players are dead set against it and it's not worth the time to discuss when there are bigger issues. The owners have admitted that the current preseason system isn't ideal, so I suggest following other leagues and reducing the price of preseason game tickets. Set preseason tickets to 60% of the cost of regular tickets and you suddenly gain a whole new demographic to market to. When more people can afford to go to games, that's a good thing for individual teams, as well as the NFL as a whole. You'd have to think 40,000 people attending a preseason game for 60% of the full price and buying food and merchandise is a better scenario than pretty much just season ticket holders, or the people they gave their tickets to, attending the games. Also, how about we add a bye week at the end of the season for all playoff teams. Players are beat-up by the end of the season and would love to have that week off (you'll see why I mention this later.)

-The current CBA clearly creates an environment where the rich get richer and the poor struggle to generate the revenues to remain competitive. I do not think revenue sharing is the answer, that just fosters a less competitive market in the long run. I suggest a change to the current playoff system in the NFL to increase revenue for the league. While I do like the current playoff system, I think an 8 seeds per conference system would be great too. No teams get an automatic bye, so the chance for upsets increase. With the additional bye week at the end of the season, it helps maintain a fair playing field in the playoffs. Selling those extra playoff games to the networks would generate enough revenue for the league to accommodate most of the players' demands. This little change would create 4 new playoff games to 15 from the current system that has 11. Offer the players 50% of the revenue generated under this increased revenue system as the salary floor, and I think that would be fair for both sides. This also makes it easier for a deserving team to make the playoffs. The past couple of years, a couple teams missed by the tiebreaker, or one game, when they easily deserved to be there over a team that made it.

-To offset a fixed rookie-compensation system, increase the veteran minimum and invest in future medical insurance for players and retired players.

Team revenues have only gone up, for every team in the league. The salary cap is revenue driven and it has increased by more than 30% over the life of the expired salary cap.

More than 50% of the leagues revenue come from national tv deals and sponsorships which are shared league wide.

An early round playoff game generates maybe 20-30 million dollars in league revenue, adding 4 more of those is not going to really move anything.

The reason teams are become less profitable now than they were is down to it becoming more difficult to lure people out to spend 100+ dollars on a ticket and 10+ dollars on 1 dollar concession items. The league has been spending a lot more on advertising and marketing over the last few years than they ever did before, this is partly attributable to the ever skyrocketing ticket prices and partly due to external financial circumstances. Sale of high priced luxury boxes, luxury seats and sponsorship packages are also well down and with an increasing number of local media blackouts the secondary media revenue is down. These are all things that are not shared or only subject to limited revenue sharing which means that small market teams will be hit very hard.

With new stadiums going up in New York, Dallas, Indianapolis, Kansas City and Detroit over the last few years stadium rental and expenses have also gone up substantially.

I believe a big reason the players bristled so hard at the owners proposal was that it required them to work more for less, which is a big ask and when the owners were not prepared to back up their claims that it was bleak times right away I think the players got into the mindset that the owners wouldn't be able to move far enough.

If negotiations had begun a year ago, or even 6 months ago there would have been time to review this financial information and find a level of disclosure that would satisfy the players representatives, but given the time constraints here I think it was impossible for the players reps to look into the numbers, determine if they were really telling the whole story and if so how much the players would be willing to move on that basis. The fact that negotiations only really went on for about 2 weeks before the deadline was fatal to the chances of reaching an agreement.

oubronco
03-13-2011, 02:49 PM
League releases details of proposal that union didn't accept


After 16 days of mediated talks, the NFL and the NFL Players Association couldn't reach an agreement on a new labor deal. The league released what it described as a summary of its proposal to the union:

1. We more than split the economic difference between us, increasing our proposed cap for 2011 significantly and accepting the union's proposed cap number for 2014 ($161 million per club).

2. An entry-level compensation system based on the union's "rookie cap" proposal, rather than the wage scale proposed by the clubs. Under the NFL proposal, players drafted in rounds 2-7 would be paid the same or more than they are paid today. Savings from the first round would be reallocated to veteran players and benefits.

3. A guarantee of up to $1 million of a player's salary for the contract year after his injury, the first time that the clubs have offered a standard multiyear injury guarantee.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...e=HP_headlines (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81eb9907/article/league-releases-details-of-proposal-that-union-didnt-accept?module=HP_headlines)

Tombstone RJ
03-13-2011, 02:50 PM
per PFT:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/12/broncos-are-willing-to-open-their-books/

I don't wanna know how broke Pat is... I'm already ticked about the lock out...

oubronco
03-13-2011, 02:52 PM
Jerry Jones seems optimistic despite litigation

"The answer is, we’ll get it done," Jones told reporters. "The answer is, we won’t miss any football. Certainly, that is our goal. Their move into litigation will ultimately result in going right back into negotiation, in our view."

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowbo...ll-get-it-done (http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4678644/jerry-jones-well-get-it-done)
<!-- / message -->

Hercules Rockefeller
03-13-2011, 03:11 PM
He never claimed they were, he just claimed they were not selling as well now as before.

They've never sold that well, and that level was as full during McD as it was before.

He can try to claim McD was bad for business, but he's FOS if he's using luxury boxes as a basis for that.

footstepsfrom#27
03-13-2011, 05:47 PM
They've never sold that well, and that level was as full during McD as it was before.

He can try to claim McD was bad for business, but he's FOS if he's using luxury boxes as a basis for that.
Bowlen's situation is unique, and not indicative of other NFL teams. He bartered away much of his future revenue from the sale of luxury boxes under the terms of his original deal he signed when he bought the team. He partially financed his debt with the promise of future earnings expectations, which is a contributory factor to why the team's bottom line isn't healthier now. Bowlen put practically nothing down when he bought the franchise, and luxury seat revenues are a contributing factor in how he's paying it off now, meaning he's not keeping nearly as much of that as he could be otherwise.

CEH
03-13-2011, 06:16 PM
Bowlen's situation is unique, and not indicative of other NFL teams. He bartered away much of his future revenue from the sale of luxury boxes under the terms of his original deal he signed when he bought the team. He partially financed his debt with the promise of future earnings expectations, which is a contributory factor to why the team's bottom line isn't healthier now. Bowlen put practically nothing down when he bought the franchise, and luxury seat revenues are a contributing factor in how he's paying it off now, meaning he's not keeping nearly as much of that as he could be otherwise.

Bowlen also financed 25% of Inveso field or about $100 MM. The Broncos are his only real source of income so the lack of luxary box sales is really hurting his bottom line. He has to pay back that debt from the Denver Broncos. Luxary boxes if sold are above and beyond the sell out crowds. Without the luxary box sales he's basically on a fixed income.

gyldenlove
03-13-2011, 06:23 PM
They've never sold that well, and that level was as full during McD as it was before.

He can try to claim McD was bad for business, but he's FOS if he's using luxury boxes as a basis for that.

That I agree with, but there no doubting that a 4-12 season and a team in shambles did nothing to help sell those empty boxes.

footstepsfrom#27
03-13-2011, 06:48 PM
Bowlen also financed 25% of Inveso field or about $100 MM. The Broncos are his only real source of income so the lack of luxary box sales is really hurting his bottom line. He has to pay back that debt from the Denver Broncos. Luxary boxes if sold are above and beyond the sell out crowds. Without the luxary box sales he's basically on a fixed income.
Bingo. Most of these mega-rich owners use their franchises as toys, but this guy has this as his primary, perhaps his only significant source of business income, not to mention cash flow. Predictably, that forced him to accept sub-standard terms when he purchased the team to begin with. That problem's never been reversed, hence the current position. I have to snicker at Bowlen talking about financial "transparency" (or his minnions) when his entire corporate shield is build on secrecy and multiple holding corporations accross several states that make it very difficult to know anything about this team's corporate health. Bowlen may allow some things to be used for the NFL to make a case in favor of the owners, but his team's position is not normative, so he probably knows the NFL isn't going to do that anyway. Any information gleaned from the Broncos books would likely be challenged immediately in court as irrelevant given their unique situation. Knowing that, he's got nothing to lose by suggesting it.