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tsiguy96
03-12-2011, 11:00 AM
dont see this being good, at all.

http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/03/12/zuffa-purchases-strikeforce/

im not sure if they intend on merging, i wouldnt think so.

Cmac821
03-12-2011, 11:45 AM
are they a monopoly yet?

Gutless Drunk
03-12-2011, 11:52 AM
Yes...and that does not bode well for the fighters

rugbythug
03-12-2011, 01:07 PM
Ufc has been much better for fighters than no ufc.

OBF1
03-12-2011, 01:16 PM
About time... When is Fador going to fight, and get his butt kicked again ???

tsiguy96
03-12-2011, 01:22 PM
About time... When is Fador going to fight, and get his butt kicked again ???

now that dana white took over, he prolly wont fight again. white is mad that he could never sign fedor, so he took to publicly slandering him.

THE719!
03-12-2011, 02:20 PM
I like the UFC but man this just show what a beast the company has become

AmericanBroncFan
03-12-2011, 02:28 PM
UFC is nothing more than an R rated version of WWE anyway. Dana White (Vince McMahan)

KipCorrington25
03-12-2011, 02:36 PM
My opinion, and I'm sure I'll get ripped, is that they have too many events. Although it's seemed to slow down a bit, but dropping $50.00 every 6 weeks is OK, but every 3 isn't worth it, and the cards seemed to really be watered down as a result of all the events...

Broncos_OTM
03-12-2011, 02:53 PM
Yea the ufc pretty much killed it for me. Whatever happened to pride

mosca
03-12-2011, 04:10 PM
I'm hyped... finish up the current contracts, then bring on Fedor, Overeem, Nick Diaz, Gil Melendez, Jacare, Werdum, Bigfoot, whoever else... As a fan I would LOVE to see these guys kept around to fight in the UFC.

tsiguy96
03-12-2011, 04:14 PM
I'm hyped... finish up the current contracts, then bring on Fedor, Overeem, Nick Diaz, Gil Melendez, Jacare, Werdum, Bigfoot, whoever else... As a fan I would LOVE to see these guys kept around to fight in the UFC.

dana white is more interested in politics than getting the best fighters in the ring.

rugbythug
03-12-2011, 05:27 PM
dana white is more interested in politics than getting the best fighters in the ring.

Please

mosca
03-12-2011, 05:42 PM
dana white is more interested in politics than getting the best fighters in the ring.
Well, since he now owns the contracts of a bunch of the best non-UFC guys, and also the org. that employs them, unless another competitor pops up, they won't have too many options besides signing with Dana.

I mean, really... who else is anyone gonna fight for? Bellator? M1-Global? Dream? It's pretty much UFC/Strikeforce or bust for any good fighter who wants to make a career out of this.

mosca
03-12-2011, 05:44 PM
Fuggit, I want to finally see Fedor vs. Lesnar/Couture, I want to see Ubereem steamroll through the UFC Heavies, I want to see Nick Diaz coming back like the prodigal son and taking on the UFC WW division. I want to see Jacare take on Anderson.

If any of these fantasies play out, I vote on the Strikeforce acquisition being a good thing.

yerner
03-12-2011, 05:50 PM
[QUOTE=AmericanBroncFan;3135827]UFC is nothing more than an R rated version of WWE anyway. Dana White (Vince McMahan)[/QUOTE

must suck being stupid.

Requiem
03-12-2011, 05:52 PM
Yawn.

DHallblows
03-12-2011, 07:44 PM
My opinion, and I'm sure I'll get ripped, is that they have too many events. Although it's seemed to slow down a bit, but dropping $50.00 every 6 weeks is OK, but every 3 isn't worth it, and the cards seemed to really be watered down as a result of all the events...

The silver lining to this deal is that the cards would be less watered down if the fighters from Strikeforce were a part of the cards!

DHallblows
03-12-2011, 07:45 PM
dana white is more interested in politics than getting the best fighters in the ring.
Fact.

Looks like I'll be watching a lot more Dream...

Boogerboots
03-13-2011, 07:10 AM
Good Luck taking this Fighting League over...

http://gizmodo.com/#!172089/japanese-ultimate-fighting-robots-league

Autobots Roll Out!

OABB
03-13-2011, 08:51 AM
Wow. This is bad bad news. Ufc is like Microsoft. Buying up the competition and than lowering the bar.

Mma is a promising sport, but the talent level just isn't there. Now it will get worse. Competiton is a good thing. Strikeforce was the better production and their judges weren't in the pocket of Dana white.

Expect to see sanchez win the title with all of his limbs broken off and unconcious.

AmericanBroncFan
03-13-2011, 10:03 AM
[QUOTE=AmericanBroncFan;3135827]UFC is nothing more than an R rated version of WWE anyway. Dana White (Vince McMahan)[/QUOTE

must suck being stupid.

Must suck wearing a magnetic bracelet

mosca
03-13-2011, 06:12 PM
Wow. This is bad bad news. Ufc is like Microsoft. Buying up the competition and than lowering the bar.

Mma is a promising sport, but the talent level just isn't there. Now it will get worse. Competiton is a good thing. Strikeforce was the better production and their judges weren't in the pocket of Dana white.

Expect to see sanchez win the title with all of his limbs broken off and unconcious.
How exactly is this going to make the talent level of MMA worse? If anything, we might now have the chance to see more talented fighters fight one another, instead of them being segregated to opposing leagues.

Strikeforce's production quality better? You can't be serious. It was 2nd rate stuff.

OABB
03-13-2011, 06:46 PM
How exactly is this going to make the talent level of MMA worse? If anything, we might now have the chance to see more talented fighters fight one another, instead of them being segregated to opposing leagues.

Strikeforce's production quality better? You can't be serious. It was 2nd rate stuff.

Maybe strikeforce should turn off all their lights and play headbanging music with cheesy graphics than?


And the talent level will go down because ufc will give their fights to mexicans over exciting fighters to get a broader audience.

mosca
03-13-2011, 11:53 PM
Not saying the UFC's production was perfect, but their fighter walkouts are much better than Strikeforce with those goofy fireworks and that weird stage that the fighters magically appeared on before walking 10 feet to the cage. Let's not even mention the Strikeforce logo or their announcers.

Not sure what this has to do with the Diego/Kampmann fight either... which, btw, Diego won. Rounds 2 and 3 Diego. Don't think there is anything in the scorebook about bruises or cuts on a fighter's face being a factor in deciding who wins a round/fight.

DHallblows
03-14-2011, 02:41 AM
Not saying the UFC's production was perfect, but their fighter walkouts are much better than Strikeforce with those goofy fireworks and that weird stage that the fighters magically appeared on before walking 10 feet to the cage. Let's not even mention the Strikeforce logo or their announcers.

Not sure what this has to do with the Diego/Kampmann fight either... which, btw, Diego won. Rounds 2 and 3 Diego. Don't think there is anything in the scorebook about bruises or cuts on a fighter's face being a factor in deciding who wins a round/fight.

Bruises and cuts correlate to their opponent's ring control and effective striking. Which are factors in deciding who wins a round/fight.

Broncos_OTM
03-14-2011, 06:13 AM
Danna white is a jackass. its the main reason i am not the biggest fan of the UFC and havent bought a paty per view in a while. Id rather just see the locals. i seen a guy take a fluing knee at the bell and within three seconds the fight was over just a coupl months ago at a local fight. talk about xcitieing

Elway 4 Life
03-14-2011, 08:32 AM
Bruises and cuts correlate to their opponent's ring control and effective striking. Which are factors in deciding who wins a round/fight.

So by your rationale if a fighter who may have a bunch of scar tissue from say ummmm bein a fighter gets hit once and cut but has been the more effective striker/grappler he should lose the round or fight because of the damage done by one punch? Silly

OABB
03-14-2011, 09:13 AM
When a fighter loses a fight, but than gets a decision. That's what makes me mad.

Anyone see the Jake shields kapman fight?

Kapman must of skipped out on protection payments to the fretitta brothers or something.

sakuraba
03-14-2011, 10:20 AM
Bruises and cuts correlate to their opponent's ring control and effective striking. Which are factors in deciding who wins a round/fight.

this is true. Damage is an indicator of EFFECTIVE striking. And they are both judging criteria. Anyone who is so devoid of intelligence as to say that Dirty Sanchez won that fight should immediately be removed from the gene pool.

OABB
03-14-2011, 11:04 AM
Sanchez did hurt kapmans fist with his face, so maybe that's where the judges gave him the edge?

Or maybe sanchez got some of his face blood in the eyes of the judges, blurring their vision of kapmans repeated blows?

DHallblows
03-14-2011, 11:25 AM
So by your rationale if a fighter who may have a bunch of scar tissue from say ummmm bein a fighter gets hit once and cut but has been the more effective striker/grappler he should lose the round or fight because of the damage done by one punch? Silly

If someone is losing a pint of blood a minute from one lucky elbow that their opponent threw, the fight should be ended for their safety, yes.
Why are you complaining to me about judging rules that have been in place for a decade?

DHallblows
03-14-2011, 11:27 AM
this is true. Damage is an indicator of EFFECTIVE striking. And they are both judging criteria. Anyone who is so devoid of intelligence as to say that Dirty Sanchez won that fight should immediately be removed from the gene pool.

:rofl: Who are you?! I had no idea we had a member with your name, nice :thumbs:

sakuraba
03-14-2011, 11:41 AM
I am a god of all things martial and a shining beacon of logic. Much like the lighthouse at Alexandria I keep people's fragile minds from crashing on the rocks of retarded arguments. And I thank you sir , you are obviously an officer and a gentleman.

OABB
03-14-2011, 11:44 AM
I am a god of all things martial and a shining beacon of logic. Much like the lighthouse at Alexandria I keep people's fragile minds from crashing on the rocks of retarded arguments. And I thank you sir , you are obviously an officer and a gentleman.

As someone who fought proudly along your side in the ADD and pippa bacca thread, I can say this is a gross understatement.

mosca
03-14-2011, 12:46 PM
Bruises and cuts correlate to their opponent's ring control and effective striking. Which are factors in deciding who wins a round/fight.
Not sure what bruises and cuts have to do with ring control.

Kampmann won round 1 (which is where Sanchez got busted up badly), and Sanchez won rounds 2 & 3. 2 rounds to 1, Sanchez.

DHallblows
03-14-2011, 12:57 PM
Not sure what bruises and cuts have to do with ring control.

You are correct. I meant aggression, apologies.
I'm not arguing with you on the decision, I actually felt the fight was very close unlike most here. I was responding to you saying:

"Don't think there is anything in the scorebook about bruises or cuts on a fighter's face being a factor in deciding who wins a round/fight."

Where clearly there is strong correlation to damage and winning a fight.

mosca
03-14-2011, 01:44 PM
I agree with that - Kampmann just doesn't seem to have enough power to end fights. Great technical form, but he didn't seem to phase Diego after the first round. The fight was very close - I could see Rd. 2 going either way.

There are worse 'robberies' to complain about in recent memory - Garcia-Nam Phan, Sherk/Dunham come to mind.

Either way, with Zuffa buying Strikeforce, I'm hoping that Nick Diaz and Paul Daley will be back in the Octagon sometime. Both exciting fighters.

OABB
03-14-2011, 02:08 PM
I agree with that - Kampmann just doesn't seem to have enough power to end fights. Great technical form, but he didn't seem to phase Diego after the first round. The fight was very close - I could see Rd. 2 going either way.

There are worse 'robberies' to complain about in recent memory - Garcia-Nam Phan, Sherk/Dunham come to mind.

Either way, with Zuffa buying Strikeforce, I'm hoping that Nick Diaz and Paul Daley will be back in the Octagon sometime. Both exciting fighters.

didn't phaze him after round 1?

I guess having his face smashed in doesnt count as phasing?

and if you want to ignore reality, there is nothing I can do...


but answer me this, when did sanchez ever ever ever ever ever phase kapman?

DHallblows
03-14-2011, 02:15 PM
We can all agree the Nam Phan loss was mind boggling. Like I said, Kampmann/Sanchez was much closer than Nam Phan's loss. I couldn't see it going any other way than 30-27 unanimous for Phan. Where I expected to see a split decision in favor of Kampmann.

OABB
03-14-2011, 02:30 PM
28185

sakuraba
03-14-2011, 02:46 PM
28185

yeah, he wasn't even phased. Mindlessly marching forward doesn't constitute ring generalship, nor octagon control. Sanchez did little to damage Kampman. The cuts to Kampmann came from the accidental head butt. Sanchez was almost completely ineffective. Kampmann did more damage to Sanchez than BJ Penn did, yet somehow Penn won that fight. Watch the fight again and turn down the sound, Rogan can be very misleading.

OABB
03-14-2011, 02:58 PM
yeah, he wasn't even phased. Mindlessly marching forward doesn't constitute ring generalship, nor octagon control. Sanchez did little to damage Kampman. The cuts to Kampmann came from the accidental head butt. Sanchez was almost completely ineffective. Kampmann did more damage to Sanchez than BJ Penn did, yet somehow Penn won that fight. Watch the fight again and turn down the sound, Rogan can be very misleading.

Yeah but, sanchez won rounds 2 and 3. So there!

sakuraba
03-14-2011, 03:03 PM
you are obviously joking. There was no round that Sanchez won. There was no round that Sanchez inflicted more damage, or ground control, or octagon control, He did not win by any of the criteria used to judge a UFC fight.

OABB
03-14-2011, 03:09 PM
you are obviously joking. There was no round that Sanchez won. There was no round that Sanchez inflicted more damage, or ground control, or octagon control, He did not win by any of the criteria used to judge a UFC fight.

He won the " walking into punches while flinging arms wildly and connecting once in a while" criteria.

Otherwise known as the "calzage" in boxing.

Superior skill, defense, tacticle fights bore people that are uneducated in a sport. When someone moves forward and flings punches people assume that means "winning".

It's like how a child would watch a fight.

The judges in the ufc were obviously paid or told to fake the score because, as you pointed out, there was nothing in the ufc rule book that favored sanchez.

mosca
03-14-2011, 04:24 PM
didn't phaze him after round 1?

I guess having his face smashed in doesnt count as phasing?

and if you want to ignore reality, there is nothing I can do...


but answer me this, when did sanchez ever ever ever ever ever phase kapman?
Sanchez rocked Kampmann twice in Round Two, once around the middle, then again at the end of the round. Round three was all Sanchez as he bullied and brawled Kampmann, and Kampmann didn't offer much offense, since his hand was injured.

mosca
03-14-2011, 04:26 PM
you are obviously joking. There was no round that Sanchez won. There was no round that Sanchez inflicted more damage, or ground control, or octagon control, He did not win by any of the criteria used to judge a UFC fight.
Go back and rewatch it... round 3 Sanchez landed way more shots, was way more aggressive, and had a takedown. Round 2 was pretty close, with Kampmann landing a few stiff jabs but Sanchez landing powerful shots that buckled Kampmann's knees on two occasion.

OABB
03-14-2011, 04:59 PM
Sanchez rocked Kampmann twice in Round Two, once around the middle, then again at the end of the round. Round three was all Sanchez as he bullied and brawled Kampmann, and Kampmann didn't offer much offense, since his hand was injured.

He rocked him once in the second that I saw. But it does not counteract the multiple punches, knees and stuffed takedowns by kapman. The second round was the closest IMO, and kapman still won it.

Now as far a the third, kapman was on his toes and didn't look hurt or gassed. He controlled sanchez and still landed effective strikes.

He slowed down because his hand was hurt and still won the round.

Oh and how did he hurt his hand? Was it from the repeated blows to the face of sanchez you think?

sakuraba
03-14-2011, 05:15 PM
Go back and rewatch it... round 3 Sanchez landed way more shots, was way more aggressive, and had a takedown. Round 2 was pretty close, with Kampmann landing a few stiff jabs but Sanchez landing powerful shots that buckled Kampmann's knees on two occasion.

I have watched the fight three times since it was originally broadcast. Ever time it is more obvious that Kampmann won. Kampmann's knees buckled briefly and in the second but he was immediately dancing and attacking with effective strikes. To "rock" some is to get them doing the "fish dance" as they say. Sanchez to have "rocked" Kampmann would have to have hit him hard enough so that Kampmann would have been unable to defend himself momentarily at the least. This did not happen. If you want to see someone rocked watch the firs round of the Frankie Edgar Gray Maynard fight. That is getting rocked. And as far as takedown; he was unable do do anything effective and Kampann was up in seconds and attacking. As for the hurt hand, he hurt it closing Sanchez's eye in the third. Kampmann continued to damage Sanchez in the the third and Sanchez did nothing but wing desperate punches.

sakuraba
03-14-2011, 05:26 PM
Even the UFC's own fight metric system scored it for Kampmann.http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/03/sanchez-vs-kampmann-official-ufc.html

OABB
03-14-2011, 05:32 PM
Wow. I knew kapman won, but I didn't realize the ufc's own metric system ruled in favor of kapman....

And sanchez was 1 of 15 on takedown attempts? Ouch.

So kapman landed more shots, stuffed 14 takedowns but sanchez wins round three for taking him down once, and kapman did much much more damage?


Wow anyone arguing for sanchez is either a moron, or on Danas payroll....



Nice pwnage sakuraba!

sakuraba
03-14-2011, 05:38 PM
Thank the powers for a voice of reason in the wilderness

mosca
03-14-2011, 06:03 PM
Sanchez easily won round 3. Kampmann easily won round 1. Fightmetric supports that. You're not fooling anyone trying to argue otherwise.

In Round 2, Sanchez was more aggressive and landed more power shots that had an effect on Kampmann, wobbling him and backing him into the cage more than once. Kampmann backpedaled and the only shots he hit Sanchez with did not appear to hurt him. Sanchez wins the round via effective striking - more "total number of legal heavy strikes landed", along with better effective area control and aggressiveness.

Round 2 gave him the fight.

mosca
03-14-2011, 06:07 PM
So kapman landed more shots, stuffed 14 takedowns but sanchez wins round three for taking him down once, and kapman did much much more damage?
Kampmann did not do more damage in round 3. Sanchez only attempted 3 takedowns in round 3, being successful on one.

You seem to be unable to grasp the concept of the 10-point must system and of judging each round on its own merits.

OABB
03-14-2011, 06:15 PM
Sanchez easily won round 3. Kampmann easily won round 1. Fightmetric supports that. You're not fooling anyone trying to argue otherwise.

In Round 2, Sanchez was more aggressive and landed more power shots that had an effect on Kampmann, wobbling him and backing him into the cage more than once. Kampmann backpedaled and the only shots he hit Sanchez with did not appear to hurt him. Sanchez wins the round via effective striking - more "total number of legal heavy strikes landed", along with better effective area control and aggressiveness.

Round 2 gave him the fight.


By" not appeared to Hurt him" are you refferring to the closed eye, split lip or bloody face?

mosca
03-14-2011, 06:21 PM
By" not appeared to Hurt him" are you refferring to the closed eye, split lip or bloody face?
Most of that damage occured in Round 1. By 'not appeared to hurt him' I refer to the fact that Sanchez walked through whatever jabs or weak shots Kampmann threw his way, and landed more power shots in Round 2 and 3 that rattled Kampmann and had him on the defensive.

OABB
03-14-2011, 06:49 PM
I don't think we are going to agree on this. If you think sanchez won even a single round than there really is no poin to argue with you.

Every concievable stat and criteria for a fight favored kampman. Especially a 10 point must system(since kapman won every round) and yet you side with judges who work for a private company that has absolutley no oversight by any second or third party and has a reputation for crooked judgements in it's history.


I really don't know what else to say. And after dealing with missouribronc, wags, spider and tailgatenut frankly I'm Too bitter and exhausted to keep trying.

mosca
03-14-2011, 07:08 PM
I don't think we are going to agree on this. If you think sanchez won even a single round than there really is no poin to argue with you.

Every concievable stat and criteria for a fight favored kampman.
Not true. Fightmetric and most everyone else agrees that Sanchez won round 3. It's round 2 that's in dispute and what decides who won the fight. I gave it to Sanchez due to him landing more effective power shots in that round.
Especially a 10 point must system(since kapman won every round) and yet you side with judges who work for a private company that has absolutley no oversight by any second or third party and has a reputation for crooked judgements in it's history.
Another falsehood. Do your homework, man. The judges don't work for a private company or the UFC. The judges work for whatever public state athletic commission sanctions the fight, in this case, the Kentucky Boxing and Wrestling Authority.

OABB
03-14-2011, 07:12 PM
Not true. Fightmetric and most everyone else agrees that Sanchez won round 3. It's round 2 that's in dispute and what decides who won the fight. I gave it to Sanchez due to him landing more effective power shots in that round.

Another falsehood. Do your homework, man. The judges don't work for a private company or the UFC. The judges work for whatever public state athletic commission sanctions the fight, in this case, the Kentucky Boxing and Wrestling Authority.

I know they are supposedly separate from the ufc, but they a flown, put up in hotels and treated to who knows what by the ufc.

A true third party is part of an oversight and paid by a seperate entity.

The ufc should not be taking care of their travels and hotel rooms.

Do you always believe the company line?

mosca
03-14-2011, 07:24 PM
Not always - as I mentioned earlier, there have been several other fights that are far more obvious robberies lately: Garcia - Nam Phan, Sherk - Dunham. Also, Guilliard - Stephens was a bad decision IMO but I dunno if I would call it a robbery.

OABB
03-14-2011, 07:30 PM
Not always - as I mentioned earlier, there have been several other fights that are far more obvious robberies lately: Garcia - Nam Phan, Sherk - Dunham. Also, Guilliard - Stephens was a bad decision IMO but I dunno if I would call it a robbery.

Fair enough.

DHallblows
03-14-2011, 07:58 PM
Can someone post a link to the entire fight? I can't find one online for the life of me.

...Which leads me to the original topic of this thread (I know, unheard of in The Mane). Strikeforce being purchased by Zuffa means it will be much harder to find video clips of Strikeforce fights online :(

DHallblows
03-14-2011, 10:51 PM
So I re-watched the fight.
Round 1-Kampmann
Round 3-Sanchez

It's about how Round 2 is scored in your eyes. The first 3 mins Kampmann controls the ring with striking and take-down defense. But around the 2 min mark, Diego does buckle Martin and uses that to keep an aggressive pace for the last 2 mins. It really just matters what you see as more important: Kampmann's technical striking, low damage, strong defense and controlling the location of the fight (standing up) for 75% of the round OR Diego's agressive style, heavy punches landed and hurting of Martin for the other 25% of the round. Kampmann controlled that round longer, but when Sanchez did control it, he did a lot more to end the fight.

Definitely a 29-28 fight. From a technical standpoint, Kampmann earned that round. However (and this goes for every MMA fight, regardless of nationality or whatever other aspect you want to add in) judges always score aggressiveness and combos which fire the crowd up more than technical boxing. That's just how it works...

I think Kampmann won the fight, but it most certainly isn't egregious that Sanchez got the W. He did a good job of attempting to steal round 2 on two different occasions, I can see how judges gave him that round.

There's more to winning/losing a fight than getting cut. And I was the one defending cuts earlier this thread.

sakuraba
03-15-2011, 08:07 AM
I find it interesting that people keep talking about Sanchez landing more damaging blows. If you will note Sanchez's face is the definition of damage. Eye's swollen shut, deep lacerations, etc = damage. A slight buckle of the knees followed by a quick counter attack is really not much damage. Have any of you fought? If you have you will note that that slight buckle wasn't much and can just be from a quick nerve shock. Sanchez's left eye was closed in the 3rd round by a very hard straight right from Kampmann. In fact you will notice Sanchez instantly raise up his hand after the shot to protect it from further damage. Mindlessly walking forward does not mean the opponents punches are in effectual. Do you think Foreman's punches to Ali's body were in effectual just because Ali didn't act like they hurt? You people need to fight a bout or at the least spar, seriously just to expand your awareness. And I do not intend that to sound condescending but more just a statement of truth. Football players do their best not to show pain but does this mean they have incurred no damage?

DHallblows
03-15-2011, 11:52 AM
I find it interesting that people keep talking about Sanchez landing more damaging blows. If you will note Sanchez's face is the definition of damage. Eye's swollen shut, deep lacerations, etc = damage. A slight buckle of the knees followed by a quick counter attack is really not much damage. Have any of you fought? If you have you will note that that slight buckle wasn't much and can just be from a quick nerve shock. Sanchez's left eye was closed in the 3rd round by a very hard straight right from Kampmann. In fact you will notice Sanchez instantly raise up his hand after the shot to protect it from further damage. Mindlessly walking forward does not mean the opponents punches are in effectual. Do you think Foreman's punches to Ali's body were in effectual just because Ali didn't act like they hurt? You people need to fight a bout or at the least spar, seriously just to expand your awareness. And I do not intend that to sound condescending but more just a statement of truth. Football players do their best not to show pain but does this mean they have incurred no damage?

The entire basis of Sanchez's damage came from powerful punches, and more specifically knees, in the first round. Which he clearly won, nobody is arguing that.
The rest of the fight, his punches weren't as powerful and the main reason they were damaging Sanchez further was because they were building on the damage already there. You know as well as I that it is much easier to increase swelling/cut size when there is swelling/a cut there already.
Yes Kampmann damaged him further throughout the fight, but it was from straights that were catching right in the cut and swollen area; not from heavy shots (which are scored more highly than total strikes landed[straight from UFC's judging guidelines]) like Diego was landing.
And as far as the buckle: Bottom line, a buckle is a buckle. Doesn't matter how fast he recovered, Sanchez used his striking effectively enough to cause Kampmann's brain to stop sending signals to his spine telling him to stand up stiffly. Yes it was only for like half a second and he came back with strikes about 10 seconds later, but he buckled and the judges saw that.
There's plenty of counter arguments as to why Kampmann won round 2. I mentioned a few, as did you. And I still think Kampmann won that round and thus the fight. But not by three unanimous 10-8 rounds or anything. I expected to see a split decision win for Martin

mosca
03-15-2011, 07:17 PM
The entire basis of Sanchez's damage came from powerful punches, and more specifically knees, in the first round. Which he clearly won, nobody is arguing that.
The rest of the fight, his punches weren't as powerful and the main reason they were damaging Sanchez further was because they were building on the damage already there. You know as well as I that it is much easier to increase swelling/cut size when there is swelling/a cut there already.
Yes Kampmann damaged him further throughout the fight, but it was from straights that were catching right in the cut and swollen area; not from heavy shots (which are scored more highly than total strikes landed[straight from UFC's judging guidelines]) like Diego was landing.
And as far as the buckle: Bottom line, a buckle is a buckle. Doesn't matter how fast he recovered, Sanchez used his striking effectively enough to cause Kampmann's brain to stop sending signals to his spine telling him to stand up stiffly. Yes it was only for like half a second and he came back with strikes about 10 seconds later, but he buckled and the judges saw that.
There's plenty of counter arguments as to why Kampmann won round 2. I mentioned a few, as did you. And I still think Kampmann won that round and thus the fight. But not by three unanimous 10-8 rounds or anything. I expected to see a split decision win for Martin
I think people are weighing in on the cuts to Diego's face too much. GSP got busted up bad against BJ Penn in their first fight and Fedor got busted up bad against Crocop in Pride but both of them took those decisions.

sakuraba
03-16-2011, 12:17 PM
I think people are weighing in on the cuts to Diego's face too much. GSP got busted up bad against BJ Penn in their first fight and Fedor got busted up bad against Crocop in Pride but both of them took those decisions.

Actually they did not get busted up bad. Fedor had some small cuts and red skin. He is thin skinned so he gets marked up easy. GSP's biggest deal was a bloody nose from getting the tip tweaked up, but if you listen to Rogan every bloody nose is a broken nose, not true by the way. Neither of those fighters had anywhere near the damage Sanchez had.

mosca
03-16-2011, 10:10 PM
http://thefullenchilada.com/newstuff/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/fedor-emelianenko.jpghttp://www.fightforum.com/attachments/ufc/1078d1233007926-im-looking-picture-gsp-after-his-first-fight-penn-gsp.jpg


They may have not been as bad off as Sanchez, but they both looked like ass after the fight, compared to their opponent. And guess what, they both won by decision.

OABB
03-17-2011, 01:12 AM
Sanchez easily won round 3. Kampmann easily won round 1. Fightmetric supports that. You're not fooling anyone trying to argue otherwise.

In Round 2, Sanchez was more aggressive and landed more power shots that had an effect on Kampmann, wobbling him and backing him into the cage more than once. Kampmann backpedaled and the only shots he hit Sanchez with did not appear to hurt him. Sanchez wins the round via effective striking - more "total number of legal heavy strikes landed", along with better effective area control and aggressiveness.

Round 2 gave him the fight.

I watched this fight again and now I'm scared that you may be an insane person. Please break down round three second by second for me. Please don't leave out kapman cracking his face and swelling up his eye IN THE THIRD ROUND.

I think you are a reasonable guy and I'm sorry for indirectly calling you a moron, but I am so confused.

The second round was all kapman too. I just don't get it. Can we post the fight here and have people judge or something?

It's wierd.

Sakuraba is right about watching the fights in mute. Rogin is prone to hyperbole and nuthuggung.

He didn't talk for 30 straight seconds while gsp demolished Penn. He is not a commentator like in other sports where he is supposed to be objective.

Mute rogin and watch it again. I think you may see what we are talking about.

If you don't agree after that than I will have to commit you to a mental hospital.

mosca
03-17-2011, 06:23 PM
I watched this fight again and now I'm scared that you may be an insane person. Please break down round three second by second for me. Please don't leave out kapman cracking his face and swelling up his eye IN THE THIRD ROUND.

I think you are a reasonable guy and I'm sorry for indirectly calling you a moron, but I am so confused.

The second round was all kapman too. I just don't get it. Can we post the fight here and have people judge or something?
I dunno the policy on posting links or streams to copyrighted vids on here, TJ prolly isn't down with it. If anyone knows how to use Google they should be able to find the fight though.

Round three Diego was way more aggressive and simply landed more shots. Kampmann looked winded, and even by the Fightmetric that you mentioned earlier, you can see that Diego landed 14 head power shots ( to Kampmann's 6), 3 more body power shots (to Kampmann's 0) and landed 1 out of 3 takedowns (to Kampmann's 0).

Round 2, I can see going either way, depending on whether or not you give credit to Sanchez for hurting Kampmann during those flurries midway and at the end of the round. But round 3 was definitely Sanchez.

Requiem
03-17-2011, 07:08 PM
Snore, snore, snore. I'd rather play WWF No Mercy on 64.

OABB
03-17-2011, 07:12 PM
I dunno the policy on posting links or streams to copyrighted vids on here, TJ prolly isn't down with it. If anyone knows how to use Google they should be able to find the fight though.

Round three Diego was way more aggressive and simply landed more shots. Kampmann looked winded, and even by the Fightmetric that you mentioned earlier, you can see that Diego landed 14 head power shots ( to Kampmann's 6), 3 more body power shots (to Kampmann's 0) and landed 1 out of 3 takedowns (to Kampmann's 0).

Round 2, I can see going either way, depending on whether or not you give credit to Sanchez for hurting Kampmann during those flurries midway and at the end of the round. But round 3 was definitely Sanchez.


Sanchez may have landed more punches in the third but he did no damage. Kapman was still light on his feet and closed up sanchez eye in the third. There is one shot that literally makes sanchez stop in his tracks long enough for his face skin to reform into a childs silly putty creation.

Kapman threw less this round because his hand hurt. So to act as if sanchez had slowed him down through effective striking is misleading. Kapman had plenty of energy and even got right back up when taken down. He wasn't throwing because his hand was hurt.


And here is the kicker, his hand was hurt from repeadetly smashing it into sanchezs face.

No joke.

That's what happened.

What you are saying literally, is that sanchezs face had taken so much punishment that the man repeadetly bashing his knucles into said face had to back off because it began to hurt his hand.


That would be like saying a rape victim bravely fought of her attacker after he orgasmed, got bored and left.
Most of us consider that losing.

mosca
03-17-2011, 07:55 PM
fighters break their hands plenty of times in fights, and it's not always the winner who breaks his hands. faber broke his hand against mike brown in their rematch and, lo and behold, it wasn't 'cause he was winning the standup.

sanchez was clearly hitting kampmann with harder shots in the 3rd, and more of them.

OABB
03-17-2011, 08:27 PM
fighters break their hands plenty of times in fights, and it's not always the winner who breaks his hands. faber broke his hand against mike brown in their rematch and, lo and behold, it wasn't 'cause he was winning the standup.

sanchez was clearly hitting kampmann with harder shots in the 3rd, and more of them.

How do you know how hard they were?

I mean, it's not like there is some kind of scale. Sanchez is a tough kid. He won't show pain. There is nothing you can say that will convince me that you know the severity of the blow.

Well now that I think of it, there is one way to tell if a shot has done damage.

If one of the guys looks like sloth from goonies, the guy hitting him is probably landing the harder shots.

Did you watch it on mute like we asked?

OABB
03-17-2011, 08:36 PM
28216

you can clearly see how effectively his face slowed down kapman in this photo.

It was a brilliant gameplan.

You see, his strategy was to take about thirty or forty shots on the lip. Once that split open, he brilliantly moved to phase two. His plan in phase two was to take about thirty more shots into his right eye.

By this point, sanchezs face knew kapmans hand must be getting tired. So he patiently waited, taking seven knees to the nose so that kapmans hand would get lolled into a false sense of security.

Than in round three, phase three went underway. Sanchezs face knew that the left side had yet to be crushed. If he could continue not bobbing and weaving, kapmans hand would surely find a home.

And than, when the moment was right, sanchez left cheek would deal the final blow to kapmans hand.

Bam!

Kapman smashed his knuckles into sanchez's face with all his might! Sanchez's eye was closed! Kapmans hand could no longer continue!

The rope a dope was back baby!


Victory!


Victory!

mosca
03-17-2011, 09:26 PM
How do you know how hard they were?

I mean, it's not like there is some kind of scale. Sanchez is a tough kid. He won't show pain. There is nothing you can say that will convince me that you know the severity of the blow.
C'mon, you're telling me that from watching a fight, we can't tell how hard punches are thrown? That the only way of judging is by looking at the cuts and swelling on someone's face?

Sanchez' punches were more powerful in the 3rd (and 2nd) because they were thrown with more force and speed, landed harder and louder, caused the head to snap back more, and actually caused the opponent to backpedal, retreat, and in the 2nd round, wobbled him against the fence.

Same reason I gave Martin the first round... busted Sanchez up bad with some hard shots and actually knocked him down in that one.
Did you watch it on mute like we asked?
I've already watched the entire fight 2 and 1/2 times. I've watched enough MMA in my days to make my own opinion on fights with or without Rogan or any announcer swaying my opinions.

DHallblows
03-18-2011, 03:57 AM
I really don't see how there is an argument against Sanchez winning Round 3...
Sanchez landed more shots. They were more powerful. Kampmann threw less punches. Period. I don't care that his hand was broke, he didn't have effective striking that round. Sanchez secured a takedown. All of that is Winning A MMA Round 101. Better striking, aggression and grappling=Sanchez winning Round 3.
You're free to dodge these facts with ramblings about cuts and broken hands, but from a judging standpoint Sanchez clearly won Round 3. A single solid punch from Kampmann isn't enough to win a round.

OABB
03-20-2011, 12:50 PM
Wow, shogun got his ass beat. I'm just happy it was stopped by a ref, or else the judges would have given him rounds two and three:)

Jon bones jones is the man right now. I'm happy for the kid. He's a class act.

mosca
03-20-2011, 12:59 PM
If Herb hadn't stopped it when he did, he would have had to a couple seconds later when Shogun tapped.

Not happy with the Bones vs. Rashad fight they have planned. I want to see him face either Machida after he dismantles Randy, or a superfight against either Silva or Fedor.

Phil Davis would be a good opponent too.

OABB
03-20-2011, 01:03 PM
If Herb hadn't stopped it when he did, he would have had to a couple seconds later when Shogun tapped.

Not happy with the Bones vs. Rashad fight they have planned. I want to see him face either Machida after he dismantles Randy, or a superfight against either Silva or Fedor.

Phil Davis would be a good opponent too.


I'd watch jones punch a wall... But yeah, not excited by the Rashad matchup. I think machida or randy would be a great match.

Don't under estimate Randy. I think machida will win, but Randy is a thinking man. And how can you not root for that guy?

mosca
03-20-2011, 01:06 PM
I like Randy and will never count him out. Hoping to see him possibly fight Fedor.

Just disappointed in how the UFC and many fans have more or less wrote off Machida less than 2 years after they were all on his hypetrani. Bandwagon fans gonna do the same to Jones first time he loses.

mosca
03-20-2011, 01:08 PM
Gegard Mousasi would be another good matchup for Bones if the merger ever occurs.

OABB
03-20-2011, 01:16 PM
I like Randy and will never count him out. Hoping to see him possibly fight Fedor.

Just disappointed in how the UFC and many fans have more or less wrote off Machida less than 2 years after they were all on his hypetrani. Bandwagon fans gonna do the same to Jones first time he loses.

Don't get me started on ufc fans.... People are writing off fedor now. People are idiots, nothing you can do about it.

Machida just fights a style that idiots don't like. I'm a huge boxing fan and have watched Bernard Hopkins get the same treatment. It's got to be flashy, not good for most of them.

Kimbo slice anyone?

OABB
03-20-2011, 01:18 PM
Gegard Mousasi would be another good matchup for Bones if the merger ever occurs.

That would be beautiful to watch. I am a huge mousasi fan.