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redskin troll
03-10-2011, 04:45 AM
Hello Bronco fans i come in peace. As you can see I'm a die hard redskin fan and i have some questions about Shannahan w/ regard to the draft. I figured this would be the best place to do some research.

What are your thoughts on Shannahan's ability to evaluate talent in the draft? Furthermore how can you explain the dramatic change in the quality of drafts classes that the broncos experienced from 2006 and beyond? Who are the Goodmans and what was thier role in the drafts? and finally what is your honest opionion on what Mike Shannahan brings to the redskins?

My opinion on the upcoming draft is that PP7, Prince, AJ Green and Marcel Dareus are the safest picks in the entire class. With PP7 being far and away the best prospect in the class. I think your beloved broncos should either go PP7 or Marcel Dareus. Buyer beware on Fairley. but what do i know i'm a frickin' skins fan!

Thanks for your time, good luck next year and Hail to the Redskins

Gort
03-10-2011, 05:00 AM
my perception is that Shanny was reluctant to pay rookies from the early rounds huge salaries and focused more on trading down (i.e., quantity of picks over quality of picks) and looking for sleepers and bargains in the later rounds. the Broncos didn't have many high first round picks while Shanny was here and Shanny was always more partial to bringing in experienced free agents to "fill holes" rather than build through the draft anyway, so his drafting strategy fit that philosophy.

i think the Broncos drafts overall during the Shanny years are not too well regarded. they weren't necessarily horrific, they just didn't produce as many impact players as we would have liked. Shanny was always trying to "reload" rather than "rebuild", so the draft didn't seem to be as crucial to the Broncos on field success as it is elsewhere.

bowtown
03-10-2011, 06:28 AM
my perception is that Shanny was reluctant to pay rookies from the early rounds huge salaries and focused more on trading down (i.e., quantity of picks over quality of picks) and looking for sleepers and bargains in the later rounds. the Broncos didn't have many high first round picks while Shanny was here and Shanny was always more partial to bringing in experienced free agents to "fill holes" rather than build through the draft anyway, so his drafting strategy fit that philosophy.


Shanahan almost never traded down in the first round. In fact, I can only remember him doing it once. There were times that he certainly traded up... with questionable results. The reason we never had very many high 1st round picks under Shanahan is that we were consistent winners.

Shanahan is not the best D talent evaluator in the world when it comes to the draft, it would help if you have someone good on staff to help with that.

cmhargrove
03-10-2011, 06:35 AM
Very interesting spot for the Redskins, they will have the chance to take a young talnted QB if they want. I would love to be a fly on the wall listening to Shanahan talk to Snyder about this.

Surprisingly, the Redskins ended up 18th in total offense, and 31st in defense (one ahead of the Broncos). So, there are obvious holes everywhere. It's almost insane how quickly the wheels came off the Redskins defense once Shanahan rollled into town.

Shanahan usually knows hoiw to find real mid round values (Dumervil and Marshall were fourth rounders), so I would look at some of those picks with real interest.

montrose
03-10-2011, 06:50 AM
What are your thoughts on Shannahan's ability to evaluate talent in the draft?
A mixed bag throughout his long tenure in Denver. Lots of big hits including Terrell Davis, John Mobley, Al Wilson, Ryan Clady, Elvis Dumervil and Brandon Marshall among others. Also had his fair share of disappointments led by Jarvis Moss, Maurice Clarett, George Foster, Deltha O'Neal, Willie Middlebrooks and Marcus Nash. The low points were the 2003 and 2004 drafts which basically netted one good player in DJ Williams, one contributor in Tatum Bell and about misses. The high point was probably 2006 when he drafted Marshall, Dumervil, Jay Cutler, Tony Scheffler and Chris Kuper. Not sure how the dynamic will work with Bruce Allen in Washington but in terms of his Denver drafting I'd say his grade falls right in the middle - to me at least.

Furthermore how can you explain the dramatic change in the quality of drafts classes that the broncos experienced from 2006 and beyond? Who are the Goodmans and what was thier role in the drafts?

The Goodmans are Jeff and his son John. Jeff was a well respected long-time scout/personnel guy and his son John was not so respected with a law background that he used to help parlay a job as an Assistant GM. In Shanahan's words, they deserved the credit for the 2006, 2007 and 2008 drafts (although I wouldn't want to take credit for 2007 as only 1 of 4 picks hit). The general consensus is that Jeff deserved the credit as Broncos owner Pat Bowlen wanted to reel in spending on garbage free agents (arguably Shanny's greatest weakness) and more emphasis was put on the draft. When Shanny was fired and Josh McDaniels hired, the original plan was for McDaniels to coach the team Goodman to handle the roster, but (in a much longer story for a different day) both Goodman's were suddenly fired about a month or so later and have been out of the league since. There was speculation they wanted to fired John and felt John had to go then too, there were rumblings McDaniels pulled Bowlen's strings to get it done. Nonetheless, I'm surprised Jeff's not back in the league with Shanny in Washington but I suppose with Allen there that might be too crowded.

and finally what is your honest opionion on what Mike Shannahan brings to the redskins?
Great experience, the guy won 2 Super Bowls here. He's a legend who is the Joe Gibbs of the Denver Broncos, he has a freaking steakhouse in town and does radio commercial even though he isn't the coach anymore. There are many (not all, but many) fans who never thought he should have been fired because 1) you don't fire legendary coaches and/or 2) he wasn't doing a bad enough job to merit being fired. After John Elway's retirement the Broncos were a consistent playoff team but only one one playoff game that entire time and his final three years they missed the playoffs each season and hovered around .500 so the team pulled the plug. When hired by Washington I thought this would be a great chance for him to get a fresh start, and it may still be. Some of his strengths - preparation (you'll love the opening game script), offensive creativity, working with QBs, veteran players like him, good at working the media . Some of his weakness - free agency/trades for overpaid veterans, defense, takes on too much (not sure if that happens in Washington with Allen there), coddles players, generally weak assistant coaches with a few exceptions like Bobby Turner (now in Washington) and Alex Gibbs. Overall I think more time is needed because the job he took over in Washington is much different than when he took over in Denver. When he took the Broncos job he had John Elway and some good defensive players in place - added some nice cheap pieces in free agency (which didn't seem to work too well after the turn of the century) along with a few killer draft picks like TD and won two Super Bowls. The Redskins team he took over needed a true rebuild so it's kind of a new path for him. If I had to guess, I think he'll have success there eventually but the height of that success - I don't know.

I think your beloved broncos should either go PP7 or Marcel Dareus. Buyer beware on Fairley. but what do i know i'm a frickin' skins fan!
That's a debate that certainly rages on right now as a lot of Broncos fans would agree Peterson is probably the best player in the draft but the Broncos have been so weak up front for so long - and watched as having the best CB of this era Champ Bailey hasn't helped stop the defense from sucking - I think most fans are hoping to go DL.

Dedhed
03-10-2011, 07:16 AM
What are your thoughts on Shannahan's ability to evaluate talent in the draft?
Shanahan's ability in talent evaluation is among the worst in the entire NFL for a person who actually has a say in personnel decisions. He has basically no ability to find players that fit a scheme and is very likely to reach on players based on need.

Shanahan's draft record is atrocious; Marcus Nash, George Foster, Deltha O'Neal, Willie Middlebrooks, Jarvis Moss, Ashley Lelie are all first round picks who never came close to being worthy of where they were taken in the draft.

He's gotten lucky with the occasional late round pick, Dumervil, TD, but the reason the Broncos are so brutally devoid of talent right now is a direct result of Shanahan's failure to draft.

He's equally poor in free agent acquisitions, btw.

Furthermore how can you explain the dramatic change in the quality of drafts classes that the broncos experienced from 2006 and beyond? Who are the Goodmans and what was thier role in the drafts? and finally what is your honest opionion on what Mike Shannahan brings to the redskins?
I think it's more a case of the blind chipmunk than anything. 2006 was a very talented class, but most of those guys are highly overhyped. 2007 was wasted on Jarvis Moss, and is only looks ok in comparison to years like 2003 where Shanahan couldn't find a legitimate starter with 10 selections.

In 2008 Clady was the biggest no brain selection ever. The Broncos were desperate for a LT and Clady fell. Not even Shanny could screw that up. I like Eddie Royal, but we passed on Desean Jackson to get him. I prefer Eddie the person, but I would take Jackson's play.

After that we're into the McDaniels era. So 2006 and beyond may look better at first glance, and was better in comparison to complete and utter failure. However it still sub-par compared to most teams.

My opinion on the upcoming draft is that PP7, Prince, AJ Green and Marcel Dareus are the safest picks in the entire class. With PP7 being far and away the best prospect in the class. I think your beloved broncos should either go PP7 or Marcel Dareus. Buyer beware on Fairley. but what do i know i'm a frickin' skins fan!

Thanks for your time, good luck next year and Hail to the Redskins

You're right about Peterson, I've been screaming for the Broncos to take him since January, but I could live with Dareus.

Good luck with Shanahan calling the draft shots, you're going to need it.

Beantown Bronco
03-10-2011, 07:25 AM
In 2008 Clady was the biggest no brain selection ever. The Broncos were desperate for a LT and Clady fell. Not even Shanny could screw that up.

His wonderlic score certainly attests to that.

jhns
03-10-2011, 07:28 AM
You can't answer those questions better than Montrose did. Ignore the McDaniels fans.

bronco militia
03-10-2011, 07:31 AM
it's a good thing Bruce Allen is the GM.....

Rohirrim
03-10-2011, 07:40 AM
Just look for the player with the longest injury history and that will be Mike's guy. ;D

lostknight
03-10-2011, 07:52 AM
Mike takes the blame for some of the drafts and the front office picks, but the reality is that replacing Ted Sudiquest with the Goodmans resulted in two epic drafts, with a draft fail in the middle. The 2007 draft - with Cutler, Marshall, Sheffler and Doom, should have set this franchise up for a decade, but McHoody traded away most of those pieces. The defense draft was a disaster - partially because the Broncos didn't trade up soon enough, and were left with Moss, who was a disaster.

In short, trust Shanahan with offensive players, especially late round steals. But flee in terror with defensive players.

Kaylore
03-10-2011, 08:03 AM
Mike has knocked a few picks out of the park and others he completely botched. It's boom or bust with Shanny. TD is the classic example of it working out. Trading up for Jarvis Moss and Maurice Clarett is an example of when Mike sucks.

My personal opinion is Shanahan can't draft defense really at all. He'll get lucky on a few, like Al Wilson, or the overrated Darrent Williams, but in general he has no idea. He also drafted Travis McGriff because he was his Godson despite him not being NFL material.

In general I would say the draft isn't Shanny's strong suit. He's better at finding castoffs and getting them to play way over their head. If a player is good at something, he'll create a roll for that player so they can succeed. Even crappy guys like Tatum Bell and Darius Watts were able to get some decent touches and have an impact on games because Shanny finds a way to work them into his system.

Tombstone RJ
03-10-2011, 08:20 AM
Hello Bronco fans i come in peace. As you can see I'm a die hard redskin fan and i have some questions about Shannahan w/ regard to the draft. I figured this would be the best place to do some research.

What are your thoughts on Shannahan's ability to evaluate talent in the draft? Furthermore how can you explain the dramatic change in the quality of drafts classes that the broncos experienced from 2006 and beyond? Who are the Goodmans and what was thier role in the drafts? and finally what is your honest opionion on what Mike Shannahan brings to the redskins?

My opinion on the upcoming draft is that PP7, Prince, AJ Green and Marcel Dareus are the safest picks in the entire class. With PP7 being far and away the best prospect in the class. I think your beloved broncos should either go PP7 or Marcel Dareus. Buyer beware on Fairley. but what do i know i'm a frickin' skins fan!

Thanks for your time, good luck next year and Hail to the Redskins

Great coach, lousy GM. That is it in a nutshell. If Allen can handle the draft and the FA's and just let Shanny coach, the team will do well.

McDman
03-10-2011, 08:25 AM
I think his drafts declined as his career went on. Schlereth attests it to his ego getting bigger and his defiance in taking advice.

Gort
03-10-2011, 08:27 AM
Shanahan almost never traded down in the first round. In fact, I can only remember him doing it once. There were times that he certainly traded up... with questionable results. The reason we never had very many high 1st round picks under Shanahan is that we were consistent winners.

Shanahan is not the best D talent evaluator in the world when it comes to the draft, it would help if you have someone good on staff to help with that.

that could be true. i don't follow the draft much and don't play fantasy football, so i'll trust what you say. it always seemed as if the Broncos had fewer early round picks than most other teams during shanny's tenure. maybe that's because of picks lost as compensation for signing free agents, instead of direct trading of picks. either way, we didn't get alot of opportunities to draft elite players and shanny whiffed more often than not when he did.

i expect the same formula from him in DC, where he also has an impatient owner to deal with who is prone to splashy FA signings.

Missouribronc
03-10-2011, 08:27 AM
Just look for the player with the longest injury history and that will be Mike's guy. ;D

And remember. Any draftee who has been interviewed up until this point, will NEVER be a Redskin.

bronco militia
03-10-2011, 08:31 AM
And remember. Any draftee who has been interviewed up until this point, will NEVER be a Redskin.

oh yeah! Ha!

Gort
03-10-2011, 08:31 AM
And remember. Anyone who has been interviewed up until this point, will NEVER be a Redskin.

how can you possibly draft a "franchise QB" without ever meeting with him first? i guess that only makes sense to shanny. i wonder if shanny would have drafted cutler had shanny had the opportunity to meet with him first and discover cutler's personality quirks.

ColoradoDarin
03-10-2011, 08:32 AM
Great coach, lousy GM. That is it in a nutshell. If Allen can handle the draft and the FA's and just let Shanny coach, the team will do well.

This. Let Shanahan coach and nothing else. He rules on preparation and game day, but he really, really sucks as GM.

doonwise
03-10-2011, 09:38 AM
Just look for the player with the longest injury history and that will be Mike's guy. ;D

LOL! And so true...

redskin troll
03-10-2011, 09:38 AM
Thanks guys for the great information. I find it interesting that you guys suggest that Shanny will not draft players that he interviews. can you give examples of both players he interviewed but passed on and players drafted that he didn't interview.

Hercules Rockefeller
03-10-2011, 09:41 AM
Thanks guys for the great information. I find it interesting that you guys suggest that Shanny will not draft players that he interviews. can you give examples of both players he interviewed but passed on and players drafted that he didn't interview.

Never spoke to Cutler, got his advice on that one from Jeff Fisher.

Cito Pelon
03-10-2011, 10:33 AM
Thanks guys for the great information. I find it interesting that you guys suggest that Shanny will not draft players that he interviews. can you give examples of both players he interviewed but passed on and players drafted that he didn't interview.

Shanny didn't interview draftees.

He depended on his scouts, position coaches, coordinators, nominal "GM" (whomever that was) to feed him info and generally went with whatever they recommended - for draftees. Maybe some outside info like with Cutler (Jeff Fisher) and Lelie (June Jones).

For FA's, Shanny was the point man. Shanny scored bigtime on FA's his first couple years as grand poobah in Denver, and kept thinking he'd score bigtime again in subsequent years.

I don't know how he'll work out for the Skins, he needs a QB as do all teams. He can keep you halfass competitive on O with crap.

OBF1
03-10-2011, 10:39 AM
Correct me if I am wrong, We did not trade up for MC.... But as I recall, Maurice Clarett was a compensatory pick at the end of round 3.

bowtown
03-10-2011, 10:41 AM
Correct me if I am wrong.... But as I recall, Maurice Clarett was a compensatory pick at the end of round 3.

Correct.

underrated29
03-10-2011, 11:46 AM
Shanny loves offense and knows it well. If he can draft any offesive player, you can probably be assured that the unless the player only has 3 fingers he will be a stud.


IMO the skins are going to go Ryan Mallett all the way. Just seems like a shanny pick. Have you talked or worked out mallett at all? If you have, then he wont be your pick and it will be Julio Jones. Shanny loves his workout warriors. Size and Speed are big things with him. He also never tips his hand as to who he is going to draft, unless he says it will be someone they brought in for a workout. If he does not say it, then it will be the person who has the least attention from him.

He also drafts in bulk. So if you need a WR, expect to see 2 or 3 of them drafted. And he is pretty good about complimenting them. A size guy and a speed guy...He loves WR who can get separation and beat the jam.

listopencil
03-10-2011, 12:02 PM
Shanny running your draft? Get two forks ready for draft day because you will want to plunge them into your eyes.

Kaylore
03-10-2011, 12:04 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, We did not trade up for MC.... But as I recall, Maurice Clarett was a compensatory pick at the end of round 3.

I think you read my sentence wrong. I meant that trading up for Jarvis Moss and then just wasting a third round pick on MoC were examples of his failings.

bendog
03-10-2011, 12:18 PM
Jhns is right, ignore the McDaniels guys. Shanny eventually learned to manage drafts and amass picks in rounds where the talent was deeper on positons he needed, such as when he drafted three corners in middle rounds, one of whom is dead and the others two still playing.

BUT, he had(s) and aversion to BPA. He ALWAYS plays it year to year and NEVER long term builds a team. Hence, the reaches the other posters point to: Nash, Moss, etc. IF he as a need, he'll skip down his board passing guys rated higher to fill the need. So, he'll get a Ashley Lelie who will fit a scheme for a couple of years, but pass on an Ed Reed.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a QB controversey lasting all season for you guys. I'd almost feel sorry for you, but that Superbowl still sticks in my craw.

bronco0608
03-10-2011, 01:06 PM
Jay??

Earl??

bowtown
03-10-2011, 01:18 PM
Jhns is right, ignore the McDaniels guys. Shanny eventually learned to manage drafts and amass picks in rounds where the talent was deeper on positons he needed, such as when he drafted three corners in middle rounds, one of whom is dead and the others two still playing.

BUT, he had(s) and aversion to BPA. He ALWAYS plays it year to year and NEVER long term builds a team. Hence, the reaches the other posters point to: Nash, Moss, etc. IF he as a need, he'll skip down his board passing guys rated higher to fill the need. So, he'll get a Ashley Lelie who will fit a scheme for a couple of years, but pass on an Ed Reed.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a QB controversey lasting all season for you guys. I'd almost feel sorry for you, but that Superbowl still sticks in my craw.

I'm sorry, did you just hold 2005 draft up as one that Shanahan managed well?

serious hops
03-10-2011, 01:21 PM
What are your thoughts on Shannahan's ability to evaluate talent in the draft?

Get ready for the pain.

bendog
03-10-2011, 01:42 PM
I'm sorry, did you just hold 2005 draft up as one that Shanahan managed well?

MCDDISCIPLE, Den had 6 picks. 3 guys are still in the league, which is beyond an avg career, and one was murdered. WTF do you want? McD again?

bowtown
03-10-2011, 02:24 PM
MCDDISCIPLE, Den had 6 picks. 3 guys are still in the league, which is beyond an avg career, and one was murdered. WTF do you want? McD again?

McDaniels has nothing to do with this discussion, aside from your inability to let go of your debate crutch. How long are we going to play the game where anytime someone disagrees with you, you run back to your McDaniels well and throw some of it out there like a little child. So let's just take him out of the equation, since he really has nothing to do with this argument. I was a McDaniels fan when he was our coach, but I was a far bigger Shanahan fan.

So let me ask you this. If a conditional genie popped out of a lamp and said, you can have a draft exactly like the one Denver had 2005, where you will pick 6 players (one 2nd and three 3rds) and in 5 years none of them will still be on your team and only 1 of them will be starting in the league. One of them will be an overrated CB who gets traded away by the coach who picks him, and the other will not even be given an offer in free agency because he is a depth journeyman who you pray never has to see the field.

Your next pick will be a guy that will pretty much go down as the biggest joke pick in the history of the league.

Of your final two picks, one will go on to have probably the most productive career of them all, albeit for another team, and the other will be out of football.

Would you go ahead and pull the trigger on that draft? Is that a successful and well managed draft to you?

NYBronc
03-10-2011, 02:33 PM
I believe Shanny also traded away 2005's #1 to the Redskins for their 2006 #1 and #4 which turned into Cutler and Marshall.

yerner
03-10-2011, 02:39 PM
Skin's are drafting Locker or Gabbert.

Missouribronc
03-10-2011, 02:42 PM
I'll put it this way...if Shanahan was still in Denver, sitting here at the No. 2 pick overall, I'd be scared ****less.

bowtown
03-10-2011, 02:46 PM
I'll put it this way...if Shanahan was still in Denver, sitting here at the No. 2 pick overall, I'd be scared ****less.

Robert Quinn, come on down.

Gort
03-10-2011, 02:50 PM
I'll put it this way...if Shanahan was still in Denver, sitting here at the No. 2 pick overall, I'd be scared ****less.

Crazy Al used his 1st round pick in 2000 on a kicker. long live Crazy Al!

:welcome:

Missouribronc
03-10-2011, 02:52 PM
Robert Quinn, come on down.

Do you happen to know the history behind picking Deltha O'Neal at 15? We finished 6-10 the year before, there's no way we had the 15th pick. Did he actually trade down to make that pick?

Granted, I'm not going to scream bloody murder about how bad O'Neal was, like some might, but, I am curious.

Did he actually gain picks to slide down and then draft O'Neal? Because, if he did (I simply just don't remember here), then my opinion of that pick actually goes up...

jhns
03-10-2011, 02:52 PM
Yes, Shanahan failed with every single one of his top 10 picks in Denver. He is one of the wprst talent evaluators in the league. This can easily be seen by looking at those SB teams he put together. Or by looking at those playoff teams after he lost a ton of talent to retirement and injury.....

Ok, that was sarcasm.

Again, just ignore the McDaniels fans. They are still upset that they were so wrong abput everything the past couple of years. For some reason they take it out on Shanahan. Probably because he was their scapegoat as they tried their hardest to defend McDaniels.

Hercules Rockefeller
03-10-2011, 02:58 PM
Do you happen to know the history behind picking Deltha O'Neal at 15? We finished 6-10 the year before, there's no way we had the 15th pick. Did he actually trade down to make that pick?

Granted, I'm not going to scream bloody murder about how bad O'Neal was, like some might, but, I am curious.

Did he actually gain picks to slide down and then draft O'Neal? Because, if he did (I simply just don't remember here), then my opinion of that pick actually goes up...

Traded down from 10th to 15th with Baltimore, picked up a 2nd where they picked Ian Gold (KK if not Ian).

Hercules Rockefeller
03-10-2011, 02:58 PM
Skin's are drafting Locker or Gabbert.

Gabbert won't be there at #10

Missouribronc
03-10-2011, 03:03 PM
Traded down from 10th to 15th with Baltimore, picked up a 2nd where they picked Ian Gold (KK if not Ian).

Say what you want about the management of O'Neal by Shanahan (changing him to WR, putting him in the dog house and trading him), but that there is a pretty good draft.

When you're sitting at 10, and you get:

A 10-year player in the NFL who played in more than 100 games, picked off 34 passes, had three defensive touchdowns, returned a kick for a touchdown in his rookie season, went to two pro-bowls...

And, an eight-year pro who had nearly 500 tackles, 17 sacks...is a pretty good draft, sitting there with the No. 10 pick.

yerner
03-10-2011, 03:08 PM
Gabbert won't be there at #10

Probably not. I've seen some mock drafts where he slips. Either way I actually think Locker is the guy Shanny wants.

bullhead
03-10-2011, 07:20 PM
Shanahan great coach GM not so much

broncocalijohn
03-10-2011, 07:48 PM
Hello Bronco fans i come in peace. As you can see I'm a die hard redskin fan and i have some questions about Shannahan w/ regard to the draft. I figured this would be the best place to do some research.

Thanks for your time, good luck next year and Hail to the Redskins

Long time, no hear Atlas! Welcome back for a post or two.

HAT
03-10-2011, 09:09 PM
Long time, no hear Atlas! Welcome back for a post or two.

And happy early B-day BTW. :afro:

Archer81
03-10-2011, 09:38 PM
Draft days during the Shanny era were an exercise in patience. The day would begin bright and shiny, with unbridled optimism. It would end with confusion and a general well...Shanny did win superbowls here...he gets the benefit of the doubt. No more, Broncos fans cry in unison. Find us a GM and a front office who runs the draft and scouting departments. No more little men upstairs.

As the sun now stands, no HC as GM no more forever.

:Broncos:

fdf
03-11-2011, 12:45 AM
Shanny loves offense and knows it well. If he can draft any offesive player, you can probably be assured that the unless the player only has 3 fingers he will be a stud...

George Foster. Marcus Nash. Ashlie Lelie. Maurice Clarrett. The Claw. Travis McGriff. Tatum Bell.

Shanahan was capable of astonishingly bad picks on offense as well as defense. He loves talented guys who have had serious injuries. He also loves reaching down to the 5th round and selecting that guy in the 2nd because of some Shanahan special sauce.

IMHO, the broncos are the hollowed out shell of a once great team because of Shanahan's drafting and free agency fliers. It's a pity. Because he is a great coach. But a TERRIBLE drafter.

gunns
03-11-2011, 07:12 AM
Stick a fork in your defense, hell it went to 31st after Shanahan got there. It probably won't improve. Yes, Shanahan loves offense, and no, they aren't always studs, at all. And no, after Elway Denver was not a consistent playoff team, 4 out of 10 years is not consistency. Keep Shanahan away from the draft IMO.

Cito Pelon
03-11-2011, 07:42 AM
Say what you want about the management of O'Neal by Shanahan (changing him to WR, putting him in the dog house and trading him), but that there is a pretty good draft.

When you're sitting at 10, and you get:

A 10-year player in the NFL who played in more than 100 games, picked off 34 passes, had three defensive touchdowns, returned a kick for a touchdown in his rookie season, went to two pro-bowls...

And, an eight-year pro who had nearly 500 tackles, 17 sacks...is a pretty good draft, sitting there with the No. 10 pick.

Ya know, I really like these draft lookbacks. Julian Peterson was drafted at #16 just after Deltha.

Could have had Tommmmmm Bradyyyyyyyyyy in that 2000 draft, but got Jarious Jackson.

Interesting that Denver still ended up with several players other teams drafted in 2000:

Courtney Brown #1
Ron Dayne #11
John Engleberger #35
Darrell Jackson #80
Reuben Droughns #81
Nate Webster #90
Alvin McKinley #120

Cito Pelon
03-11-2011, 07:48 AM
Probably not. I've seen some mock drafts where he slips. Either way I actually think Locker is the guy Shanny wants.

Seems to me Locker would be the best QB pick. He's kinda short, but how many times have people said a QB should stay for his senior season because it helps so much in terms of maturity/NFL-readiness?

Locker is the only senior in this year's crop of 'elite' QB's.

misturanderson
03-11-2011, 09:34 AM
Seems to me Locker would be the best QB pick. He's kinda short, but how many times have people said a QB should stay for his senior season because it helps so much in terms of maturity/NFL-readiness?

Locker is the only senior in this year's crop of 'elite' QB's.

He also can't hit the broad side of a barn. I don't understand why he is even getting 2nd round consideration after he failed to show the mythical 4.3 speed that it was claimed that he had (his only real redeeming quality, since he's a below average QB).

Missouribronc
03-11-2011, 09:50 AM
Ya know, I really like these draft lookbacks. Julian Peterson was drafted at #16 just after Deltha.

Could have had Tommmmmm Bradyyyyyyyyyy in that 2000 draft, but got Jarious Jackson.

Interesting that Denver still ended up with several players other teams drafted in 2000:

Courtney Brown #1
Ron Dayne #11
John Engleberger #35
Darrell Jackson #80
Reuben Droughns #81
Nate Webster #90
Alvin McKinley #120

That draft was bad. LaVarr Arrington at 2. Peter Warrick at 4, Man, and people scream about Deltha O'Neal at 15...

If you re-drafted that first round, what would it be? (Obviously, if you re-drafted the entire draft Tom Brady would be No. 1, and I noticed Laveraneus Coles in there, he'd probably move into round 1, but that was just not a good draft class).

Urlacher at 1? John Abraham at 1? Keith Bullock?

Thomas Jones would probably considered a bust until his sixth season...

Jamal Lewis had only a short window of greatness, although maybe it was more dominant than the other players in that draft.

I would say:
1. Cleveland Browns - John Abraham
2. Washington Redskins - Jamal Lewis
3. Washington Redskins - Brian Urlacher
4. Cincinnati Bengals - Julian Peterson
5. Baltimore Ravens - Thomas Jones
6. Philadelphia Eagles - Shaun Ellis
7. Arizona Cardinals - Shaun Alexander
8. Pittsburgh Steelers - Keith Bullock
9. Chicago Bears - Chris Samuels
10. Baltimore Ravens - Chris Hovan

Man...

Cito Pelon
03-11-2011, 11:45 AM
That draft was bad. LaVarr Arrington at 2. Peter Warrick at 4, Man, and people scream about Deltha O'Neal at 15...

If you re-drafted that first round, what would it be? (Obviously, if you re-drafted the entire draft Tom Brady would be No. 1, and I noticed Laveraneus Coles in there, he'd probably move into round 1, but that was just not a good draft class).

Urlacher at 1? John Abraham at 1? Keith Bullock?

Thomas Jones would probably considered a bust until his sixth season...

Jamal Lewis had only a short window of greatness, although maybe it was more dominant than the other players in that draft.

I would say:
1. Cleveland Browns - John Abraham
2. Washington Redskins - Jamal Lewis
3. Washington Redskins - Brian Urlacher
4. Cincinnati Bengals - Julian Peterson
5. Baltimore Ravens - Thomas Jones
6. Philadelphia Eagles - Shaun Ellis
7. Arizona Cardinals - Shaun Alexander
8. Pittsburgh Steelers - Keith Bullock
9. Chicago Bears - Chris Samuels
10. Baltimore Ravens - Chris Hovan

Man...

Ok with me. Sheesh, Abraham has 102.5 sacks. Shaun Ellis went to the NYJ at #12 (72.5 sacks), and John Abraham went to the NYJ's at #13 (102.5 sacks). Good draft for them, but then they let Abraham go in FA.

Urlacher that year, I can't believe teams passed on him. Despite being from the University of New Mexico, the guy was a can't miss. And I think a lot of teams wanted him badly, including Shanny. But CHI traded up to #9 and bypassed everybody to draft him.

I'm thinking Von Miller is that kind of guy in this 2011 draft.

bendog
03-11-2011, 12:22 PM
McDaniels has nothing to do with this discussion, aside from your inability to let go of your debate crutch. How long are we going to play the game where anytime someone disagrees with you, you run back to your McDaniels well and throw some of it out there like a little child. So let's just take him out of the equation, since he really has nothing to do with this argument. I was a McDaniels fan when he was our coach, but I was a far bigger Shanahan fan.

So let me ask you this. If a conditional genie popped out of a lamp and said, you can have a draft exactly like the one Denver had 2005, where you will pick 6 players (one 2nd and three 3rds) and in 5 years none of them will still be on your team and only 1 of them will be starting in the league. One of them will be an overrated CB who gets traded away by the coach who picks him, and the other will not even be given an offer in free agency because he is a depth journeyman who you pray never has to see the field.

Your next pick will be a guy that will pretty much go down as the biggest joke pick in the history of the league.

Of your final two picks, one will go on to have probably the most productive career of them all, albeit for another team, and the other will be out of football.

Would you go ahead and pull the trigger on that draft? Is that a successful and well managed draft to you?

Jesus Chist, no wonder you blow McD. Shanny drafted 3 starting cbs (one who went probowl) a center, a quarterback and guy who ran for a thousand yards and you still b****. I pity Elway with idiots like you who have internet connections. I'm going to spam your post for laughs.