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Carmelo15
03-10-2011, 02:27 AM
Assuming the Broncos are deciding between these two interior linemen, who do you prefer? Vote and then post why you prefer the big man you voted for.

*WARHORSE*
03-10-2011, 02:32 AM
Assuming the Broncos are deciding between these two interior linemen, who do you prefer? Vote and then post why you prefer the big man you voted for.


I was initially bent on Fairley. One of the reasons was I thought he was 6'5" and had room to add muscle.

After taking all into consideration, I believe Dareus is the man I would like to see Denver take.

Not only is he light on his feet at 319 lbs....but he is far faster within 10 yds than Fairley. He is bigger....stronger.

Most of all though, Dareus was used in the 34, asked to manhandle Olinemen.

In the 43 Fox will put into play here, I believe Dareus will be cut loose much like Warren Sapp.


I believe theyre in the same mold, but Marcel is even bigger than Sapp.


I'll go with Marcel Dareus.

Carmelo15
03-10-2011, 02:47 AM
I voted for Dareus because he has a better all-around game. Fairley is better in one aspect: rushing the passer. And he is not better by much. Dareus is better against the run, better at engaging blockers, he's bigger and stronger. I also like his personality better and when you're picking at #2 that should be strongly considered.

One big thing that stands out to me is that Alfred Williams, Mark Schlereth, and Warren Sapp all strongly prefer Dareus to Fairley. These guys were all players in this league so I think they know what makes a good defensive lineman. Alfred and Schlereth were particularly unimpressed with Fairley. They saw and interviewed him at the Super Bowl and said he didn't look like a 4-3 DT. The day after the national champinoship Alfred said he doesn't use his hands and called Fairley "fool's gold". Warren Sapp one of the greatest DT of all-time, agrees:

“He doesn’t use his hands,” said Sapp on Total Access, after watching film of Fairley. “He’s just bigger and more athletic than most of the guys. … He must work on his technique.”

The Joker
03-10-2011, 03:04 AM
Dareus.

Fairley probably has the higher ceiling of the two, and I can see why I team would become infatuated with that and take the risk that he lives up to it.

Dareus on the other hand seems like a sure thing to me. Not saying he's a gauranteed multiple pro-bowler or anything, but aside from getting a very bad injury I just don't see any way he's not going to be a good starter in the NFL for many years to come. He's just too well-rounded a prospect by all accounts.

For a team like us, who hasn't had a quality DT in a long time and simply cannot afford to whiff on this pick, I think Dareus has to be the way to go. Not like he hasn't got the potential to be a pro-bowler himself either.

Ultimately Fairley has much higher bust potential while only having a slightly higher ceiling, the trade-off just doesn't seem worth it to me.

footstepsfrom#27
03-10-2011, 03:04 AM
Fairley initially looked like the guy, but the draft evaluation process is merciless in seeking out every flaw...to be honest this is a very tough decision but I think I lean towards Dareus. One thing that stands out is that while his sack totals are lower, he was rushing in a 3 man line...of course they're going to be lower. Fairley just strikes me as a guy who MIGHT flop...and that's to big a risk at the #2 pick. Dareus could play any position on the line, he's a stouter player I think, stronger and built more for the interior than Fairley. Fairley could be the next John Randal, or he could implode and wind up being a Haynesworth type guy who can't control his emotions on the field and winds up being a locker rook problem. That might not be true but it seems like a possibility.

I still want Peterson, but Dareus would be my 2nd choice, followed by Bowers, then Fairley and Miller.

C130Herkload
03-10-2011, 04:29 AM
Fairley= Haynesworth 2.0

ol#7
03-10-2011, 04:54 AM
I chose Fairlye because I think he has more potential to be great although the possibility of being a bust is IMO higher than Dareus.

Carmelo, I wouldnt put too much stock into what former players have to say to fill air time. I like Alfred Williams a heck of a lot, but Matt Millen was a former player too, so they dont all know what they are looking at when it comes to talent evaluation.

FWIW, I think Carolina takes Fairley and we take Dareus.

Carmelo15
03-10-2011, 05:09 AM
Carmelo, I wouldnt put too much stock into what former players have to say to fill air time. I like Alfred Williams a heck of a lot, but Matt Millen was a former player too, so they dont all know what they are looking at when it comes to talent evaluation.

The thing is, I haven't heard any former players come out saying they favor Fairley. There seems to be a consensus among former NFL guys that Dareus is a better football player. Kiper and McShay are the main guys I have seen with Fairley rated higher.

ol#7
03-10-2011, 05:20 AM
Not saying they are right or wrong, but just because a handful of former players love a guy doesnt sway me anymore than a handful of draftnicks like Kiper. Every year they fall in love with somebody, more than half of what gets reported is being driven by agents anyway to improve stock.

GoBroncos84
03-10-2011, 06:13 AM
Dareus is bigger, a lot stronger, plays with better technique and uses his hands well. Much more versatile. Has displayed toughness and leadership by playing through injuries and seems to have great character, despite the 2 game suspension. Has amazing speed and explosion for his size. He is by far the "safer" pick between the two. I also think he will be the better football player. I do think Nick Fairley is a very good prospect as well, but I think he needs more work and there is more bust potential. Dareus in NFL ready right now.

gtown
03-10-2011, 06:46 AM
Aside from Green Bay, the other three teams that played in the conference championship games this year were ranked #1,2,3 in rushing defense according to ESPN stats (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingYardsPerGame/position/defense).

If that is the common denominator for dominating defenses, Dareus has got to be the pick.

strafen
03-10-2011, 06:57 AM
I went with Dareus.
I'm a big Alabama fan and I know, Dareus is fundamentally sound to play defense.

cmhargrove
03-10-2011, 07:26 AM
I love Fairley's aggressiveness, and even like the facts that he plays a little dirty. I mean, i'm not condoning the really cheap stuff, but I like how he tackles with malicious intent. I think our defense definitely needs more attitude, and the fighting side of Fairley could be a good thing.

My problem with taking him at #2 is that when I see him play against technically sound linemen, he can usually be handled with one-on-one blocking. Taken out of the run game, stonewalled in the passing game. The time he shines is when other people make mistakes.

Dareus on the other hand consistently beats single teams, and generally holds position and makes plays even when double teamed. We need that badly. If we have a guy that can blow up single teams, and command regular double teams, it will let Elvis and Ayers do their thing on the edges. It makes for a potentially dominant defense if we can find a real stud at MLB behind that line.

I am already figuring Dareus is the guy, and starting to answer the next question - what do we do for MLB? I really like Mays as a two down thumper, but I just don't know if he is the long term solution.

pricejj
03-10-2011, 07:30 AM
I think Dareus will go #1 overall. It is apparent after the workouts that Dareus has moved ahead of Fairley. Carolina has taken a good look at Cam Newton, but he has plenty of red flags. They are switching to a 3-4 this year with Rivera coming in. They also took a quarterback (Clausen) last year. With Dareus off the board, the question now becomes "Fairley vs. everybody else". To me, he is the only player, other than Dareus, who could make a serious impact on the Broncos defense.

This is when you play a dangerous game... In my opinion, it is better to trade down out of the pick, but that will only be possible if a team covets Cam Newton and believes the Bills will take him at #3. However, if the Broncos do trade down, there is a real chance Fairley will be off the board as well. The question now becomes, "Is Fairley worth the #2 pick?".

Do you deal with the headache's that he may present vs. taking a player that won't have as much of an impact (Peterson)? Tricky question... The guy hangs out with Jamarcus Russell, one of the all-time underachievers. Not Good. Elway and Fox have a top priority of fixing the defense, primarily the front 7. The safest pick the Broncos can take, with Dareus gone, is Peterson. I think the elite, impact DL will be gone by the time the Broncos pick in round 2. This would leave yet another draft, of not getting a truly impactful DL player... The Broncos cannot afford that scenario, and will need to reach. My opinion, they choose Fairley... with all his flaws.

jhns
03-10-2011, 07:42 AM
I want Dareus a little bit more but I would be happy with either one.

gunns
03-10-2011, 08:42 AM
or he could implode and wind up being a Haynesworth type guy who can't control his emotions on the field and winds up being a locker rook problem. That might not be true but it seems like a possibility.



This, plus the nagging feeling that Fairley is just out for his payday after which his work ethic goes down the drain. Unfortunately the draft is such a crap shoot.

Rohirrim
03-10-2011, 08:48 AM
Dareus is better against the run.

Screw the run!

For years I have wanted somebody who can burst right up the middle, destroy the pocket, and put Phyllis, Peanuthead, Brady, et al on their asses.

Give me Fairley.

I want to strike fear. ;D

Taco John
03-10-2011, 08:50 AM
I'd be happy with either, but prefer Fairley.

HooptyHoops
03-10-2011, 08:51 AM
Can I take both?

misturanderson
03-10-2011, 08:51 AM
I think Dareus will go #1 overall. It is apparent after the workouts that Dareus has moved ahead of Fairley. Carolina has taken a good look at Cam Newton, but he has plenty of red flags. They are switching to a 3-4 this year with Rivera coming in. They also took a quarterback (Clausen) last year. With Dareus off the board, the question now becomes "Fairley vs. everybody else". To me, he is the only player, other than Dareus, who could make a serious impact on the Broncos defense.

This is when you play a dangerous game... In my opinion, it is better to trade down out of the pick, but that will only be possible if a team covets Cam Newton and believes the Bills will take him at #3. However, if the Broncos do trade down, there is a real chance Fairley will be off the board as well. The question now becomes, "Is Fairley worth the #2 pick?".

Do you deal with the headache's that he may present vs. taking a player that won't have as much of an impact (Peterson)? Tricky question... The guy hangs out with Jamarcus Russell, one of the all-time underachievers. Not Good. Elway and Fox have a top priority of fixing the defense, primarily the front 7. The safest pick the Broncos can take, with Dareus gone, is Peterson. I think the elite, impact DL will be gone by the time the Broncos pick in round 2. This would leave yet another draft, of not getting a truly impactful DL player... The Broncos cannot afford that scenario, and will need to reach. My opinion, they choose Fairley... with all his flaws.

I think that if Dareus isn't there we need to trade down if at all possible. I wouldn't be horribly upset if we took Peterson or Bowers (possibly Fairley, but I just don't really think he is as good as advertised) in that situation, but if Dareus is gone I'd much prefer to accumulate some picks and get a slightly lower-rated defensive player.

misturanderson
03-10-2011, 08:52 AM
Dareus is better against the run.

Screw the run!

For years I have wanted somebody who can burst right up the middle, destroy the pocket, and put Phyllis, Peanuthead, Brady, et al on their asses.

Give me Fairley.

I want to strike fear. ;D

Dareus can do that almost as well and is able to do it against double teams, something Fairley is not as good at.

Kaylore
03-10-2011, 08:56 AM
Dareus because he is bigger and more "complete."

Having said that, I would be thrilled with either one and have no problem with having to "settle" for Fairley or Patrick Peterson.

JDub15
03-10-2011, 09:16 AM
Peterson IMO, but Dareus over Fairly is a no-brainer.

PRBronco
03-10-2011, 09:18 AM
Fairley initially looked like the guy, but the draft evaluation process is merciless in seeking out every flaw...to be honest this is a very tough decision but I think I lean towards Dareus. One thing that stands out is that while his sack totals are lower, he was rushing in a 3 man line...of course they're going to be lower. Fairley just strikes me as a guy who MIGHT flop...and that's to big a risk at the #2 pick. Dareus could play any position on the line, he's a stouter player I think, stronger and built more for the interior than Fairley. Fairley could be the next John Randal, or he could implode and wind up being a Haynesworth type guy who can't control his emotions on the field and winds up being a locker rook problem. That might not be true but it seems like a possibility.

I still want Peterson, but Dareus would be my 2nd choice, followed by Bowers, then Fairley and Miller.

And why is Fairley more at risk for that than any other player?

PRBronco
03-10-2011, 09:30 AM
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Defensive-linemen-fight-night.html

Wes Bunting compares the two of them.

Smiling Assassin27
03-10-2011, 09:31 AM
Fairley has a mean streak that I do not see in Dareus, let alone 95% of current pro DL. I believe that each guy's skills are comparable with Dareus having the edge in strength and Fairley having the edge in off the ball speed. Fairley, however, wins the intangible comparison because he reminds me of a guy like Alzado--mean and nasty, which is the kind of defense I desire for this team. I think he represents the demeanor this defense needs. Let me qualify this by saying that I am in no way slagging Dareus, merely saying that Fairley may be a bigger gamble (though I don't think so) but also may hold the bigger reward as a dominant interior lineman.

prunch
03-10-2011, 10:17 AM
No complaints with either but I have to side with Fairley. Fairley has more growth in his technique available to him whereas Dareus is closer to the finished product. Fairley has superstar written all over him if he can be kept focused.

Fox likes fast, disruptive defensive players and Fairley can disrupt and I gotta say, i'll take a few extra penalties for the upside and worries he will generate.

For a #2 pick, gotta go for the superstar and Dareus strikes me as having a lower ceiling by far even though what he is right now is good.

OABB
03-10-2011, 10:34 AM
Dareus. Fairley has haynesworths attitude and hillis's smarts. Bad combo.

PRBronco
03-10-2011, 10:45 AM
Dareus. Fairley has haynesworths attitude and hillis's smarts. Bad combo.

Link plz.

gunns
03-10-2011, 10:48 AM
Fairley has a mean streak that I do not see in Dareus, let alone 95% of current pro DL. I believe that each guy's skills are comparable with Dareus having the edge in strength and Fairley having the edge in off the ball speed. Fairley, however, wins the intangible comparison because he reminds me of a guy like Alzado--mean and nasty, which is the kind of defense I desire for this team. I think he represents the demeanor this defense needs. Let me qualify this by saying that I am in no way slagging Dareus, merely saying that Fairley may be a bigger gamble (though I don't think so) but also may hold the bigger reward as a dominant interior lineman.

I do agree with this, especially the mean and nasty. But this statement in the next post

Fairley has superstar written all over him if he can be kept focused.



This is my concern. We are so far down the totem pole as far as defense can we afford a player that we have to spend time keeping focused?

UberBroncoMan
03-10-2011, 10:58 AM
I chose Fairlye because I think he has more potential to be great although the possibility of being a bust is IMO higher than Dareus.

Carmelo, I wouldnt put too much stock into what former players have to say to fill air time. I like Alfred Williams a heck of a lot, but Matt Millen was a former player too, so they dont all know what they are looking at when it comes to talent evaluation.

FWIW, I think Carolina takes Fairley and we take Dareus.

Millen had such insane luck. He won FOUR Super Bowls in SIX YEARS with THREE different teams.

ZONA
03-10-2011, 11:20 AM
Wheres the options for taking neither and trading down? Ha!

Chris
03-10-2011, 11:33 AM
If we think we can get a solid starter with the 2nd round pick I think we need to buckle our seatbelts and select Fairley.

What is the ultimate goal? Respectability or championships? If it's the latter, you have to take risks.

Taco John
03-10-2011, 12:13 PM
Fairley has a mean streak that I do not see in Dareus...

Yup. Me too. When I see Nick Fairley highlights, I see the second coming of this guy:

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/yCQfHhEC8sk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

AZorange1
03-10-2011, 12:30 PM
I was initially bent on Fairley. One of the reasons was I thought he was 6'5" and had room to add muscle.

After taking all into consideration, I believe Dareus is the man I would like to see Denver take.

Not only is he light on his feet at 319 lbs....but he is far faster within 10 yds than Fairley. He is bigger....stronger.

Most of all though, Dareus was used in the 34, asked to manhandle Olinemen.

In the 43 Fox will put into play here, I believe Dareus will be cut loose much like Warren Sapp.


I believe theyre in the same mold, but Marcel is even bigger than Sapp.


I'll go with Marcel Dareus.

Change my mind to Dareus---you post makes sense--

bombay
03-10-2011, 03:41 PM
Dareus.

footstepsfrom#27
03-10-2011, 03:47 PM
I get the feeling that Fairley would be a better pick if we already had a veteran star to build around on the D-line, rather than him having to be the guy they build around. It's such a close comparison.

GoBroncos84
03-10-2011, 04:34 PM
Yup. Me too. When I see Nick Fairley highlights, I see the second coming of this guy:

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/yCQfHhEC8sk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

and yet that guy, Warren Sapp, says that Dareus is the better player. Even though Marcell played DE on a 3 man front, Sapp believes he is the best 3 technique in the draft, the position Sapp excelled at. Most analysts have come around to that belief. Mayock, Sapp, Davis, Casserly, and Lombardi on NFL Network, Nawrocki and the PFW staff, CBS sports, Walter Football, Scouts Inc., and just about every other draft site that I frequent has moved Dareus above Fairley. Kiper and McShay on ESPN are the big holdovers who have not.

I obviously have no idea which guy will have the better career. I'd love to have either guy. I supported drafting Dareus when Fairley was the one getting all of the hype. Now that positions have changed I am even more adamant about it. I just think we need to get this pick right, and there is so much less risk with Dareus. He is NFL ready right now and his floor is much higher. Maybe his ceiling isn't as high, but maybe it is. I'm not automatically giving that to Fairley. We haven't seen what Dareus can do in a predominantly 4 man front, or when fully healthy. He was impressive, and did it playing a 3-4 end dealing with frequent double teams and on a bad ankle. I think he can be a very disruptive force when he is moved inside. Especially with a pass rush threat like Dumervil next to him. You can't double team both of them.

Smiling Assassin27
03-10-2011, 04:46 PM
and yet that guy, Warren Sapp, says that Dareus is the better player

That guy also said McCoy was better than Suh last year. So did Mayock.

“Good Morning, Dust has Settles 4 Me! Take McCoy! Ain’t No Bench Press On the any Yd Line! Feet Beat Weights everyday & Twice on Sunday!!’’

Taco John
03-10-2011, 07:02 PM
and yet that guy, Warren Sapp, says that Dareus is the better player. Even though Marcell played DE on a 3 man front, Sapp believes he is the best 3 technique in the draft, the position Sapp excelled at. Most analysts have come around to that belief. Mayock, Sapp, Davis, Casserly, and Lombardi on NFL Network, Nawrocki and the PFW staff, CBS sports, Walter Football, Scouts Inc., and just about every other draft site that I frequent has moved Dareus above Fairley. Kiper and McShay on ESPN are the big holdovers who have not.

I obviously have no idea which guy will have the better career. I'd love to have either guy. I supported drafting Dareus when Fairley was the one getting all of the hype. Now that positions have changed I am even more adamant about it. I just think we need to get this pick right, and there is so much less risk with Dareus. He is NFL ready right now and his floor is much higher. Maybe his ceiling isn't as high, but maybe it is. I'm not automatically giving that to Fairley. We haven't seen what Dareus can do in a predominantly 4 man front, or when fully healthy. He was impressive, and did it playing a 3-4 end dealing with frequent double teams and on a bad ankle. I think he can be a very disruptive force when he is moved inside. Especially with a pass rush threat like Dumervil next to him. You can't double team both of them.

I'd be happy with either... But I know how this goes. The player that was hottest in December is rarely as hot in April. As far as Sapps ability to evaluate talent... Uh. I trust Sapp to do two things: 1) hunt down QBs, and 2) pick me the best burger.

JDB7821
03-10-2011, 08:19 PM
I voted for Marcell Dareus, I think he's going to have a longer career.

Play2win
03-10-2011, 08:32 PM
Dareus also seems like a player you can start build a defenses around. Could definitely be a keystone or cornerstone type.

epicSocialism4tw
03-10-2011, 09:54 PM
Its too tough for me to pick really.

Borks147
03-10-2011, 10:52 PM
Its too tough for me to pick really.

But, for the first time in a loooooong time I trust that the people making the decision at Dove Valley will have done their homework well and will make the right choice for the Broncos as they rebuild the defense. How cool is that?

epicSocialism4tw
03-10-2011, 11:16 PM
But, for the first time in a loooooong time I trust that the people making the decision at Dove Valley will have done their homework well and will make the right choice for the Broncos as they rebuild the defense. How cool is that?

I dont disagree at all. These guys look decisive and competent so far.

HAT
03-10-2011, 11:37 PM
Link plz.

Please tell me this a joke?

My apologies in advance if you were asking for a link comparing Haynes' & Fairley's attitudes but it's widely acknowledged that Fairley is a dope.

OABB was giving him way too much cred by comparing smarts to Hillis.

cutthemdown
03-11-2011, 12:29 AM
I picked Dareus because

1- I think since we have doom on the edge the bigger the better for our big boy DT.

2- The scouts say he uses hands better and that sounds important lol.

PRBronco
03-11-2011, 08:24 AM
Please tell me this a joke?

My apologies in advance if you were asking for a link comparing Haynes' & Fairley's attitudes but it's widely acknowledged that Fairley is a dope.

OABB was giving him way too much cred by comparing smarts to Hillis.

No I'm serious. I mean I know he had to go to junior college, but lots of guys have gone that route. I haven't seen anything else claiming he's retarded. For a football player, his twitter account is the ****ing Illiad compared to some of the guys on the Broncos.

outdoor_miner
03-11-2011, 08:42 AM
2- The scouts say he uses hands better and that sounds important lol.

LOL

bowtown
03-11-2011, 08:55 AM
[waiting for Mediator to vote]

Old Dude
03-11-2011, 12:49 PM
Dareus because he is bigger and more "complete."

Having said that, I would be thrilled with either one and have no problem with having to "settle" for Fairley or Patrick Peterson.

Same here. But I've been agreeing far too much with Kaylore lately. So I guess I'll abstain.

Kaylore
03-11-2011, 02:16 PM
Same here. But I've been agreeing far too much with Kaylore lately. So I guess I'll abstain.

Can't argue with that!Ha!

GoBroncos84
03-11-2011, 05:41 PM
Mike Mayock just showed his "Big Board" and he has Marcell Dareus ranked as the no.1 overall prospect in the draft. Nick Fairley at 8. He says Dareus won't get past Denver at 2. I hope he is right

footstepsfrom#27
03-11-2011, 10:02 PM
Mike Mayock just showed his "Big Board" and he has Marcell Dareus ranked as the no.1 overall prospect in the draft. Nick Fairley at 8. He says Dareus won't get past Denver at 2. I hope he is right
Chances are these guys change their rankings several times before the draft anyway.

GoBroncos84
03-11-2011, 10:28 PM
Chances are these guys change their rankings several times before the draft anyway.

Absolutely. This is just the first time I have seen Dareus listed number 1 overall. I really hope Carolina doesn't take him

HILife
03-11-2011, 10:45 PM
I voted for Dareus because he has a better all-around game. Fairley is better in one aspect: rushing the passer. And he is not better by much. Dareus is better against the run, better at engaging blockers, he's bigger and stronger. I also like his personality better and when you're picking at #2 that should be strongly considered.

One big thing that stands out to me is that Alfred Williams, Mark Schlereth, and Warren Sapp all strongly prefer Dareus to Fairley. These guys were all players in this league so I think they know what makes a good defensive lineman. Alfred and Schlereth were particularly unimpressed with Fairley. They saw and interviewed him at the Super Bowl and said he didn't look like a 4-3 DT. The day after the national champinoship Alfred said he doesn't use his hands and called Fairley "fool's gold". Warren Sapp one of the greatest DT of all-time, agrees:

“He doesn’t use his hands,” said Sapp on Total Access, after watching film of Fairley. “He’s just bigger and more athletic than most of the guys. … He must work on his technique.”

I'm sold. Pick up Dareus.