What would Jesus do?

[Rigs11]

New budget campaign asks 'What would Jesus cut?'
By Dan Gilgoff, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

A coalition of progressive Christian leaders has taken out a full-page ad that asks “What would Jesus cut?” in Monday’s edition of Politico, the opening salvo in what the leaders say will be a broader campaign to prevent cuts for the poor and international aid programs amid the budget battle raging in Washington.

“They’re talking about cutting bed nets for malaria and leaving every piece of military spending untouched,” said the Rev. Jim Wallis, who leads the Christian group Sojourners, referring to Republican spending proposals for the rest of this year.
“Are we saying that every piece of military equipment is more important than bed nets, children’s health and nutrition for low-income families?” said Wallis, whose group paid for Monday’s ad. “If so they should be ashamed of themselves.”
The ad and the broader campaign are aimed mostly at a spending measure passed by the Republican-led House of Representatives that cuts $61 billion from current spending levels, including cuts to Head Start, the Women Infants and Children (WIC) program and international aid programs.

Senate Democrats consider those cuts draconian and won't pass them.

The faith leaders behind the "What would Jesus cut" campaign are also lobbying the Obama administration to forego proposed cuts to programs like college grants and heating assistance to low-income Americans in the 2012 federal budget.

House and Senate negotiators are trying to find consensus on a temporary spending measure to avert a government shutdown. Republican House Speaker John Boehner is pushing a short-term spending plan that would cut $4 billion.

Monday’s “What would Jesus cut?” ad is signed by dozens of Christian leaders, including evangelicals like David Beckman, president of the charity Bread for the World, and author Brian McLaren.

"Cutting programs that help those who need them most is morally wrong," Beckmann said in a statement. "Reducing the federal deficit is critical for our nation's long term health but it should not be done at the expense of the most vulnerable. When Jesus talked about how God will judge nations, he said that God will focus on what we did or did not do for the neediest among us."
Sojourners recently ordered 1,000 “What would Jesus cut?” bracelets for its supporters to send to their representatives in Congress, then ordered 2,000 more when the initial batch ran out. The group says its backers have sent 10,000 "What would Jesus cut?" emails to Capitol Hill.

Wallis said that he and other Christian leaders are meeting in Washington this week to strategize on ways to prevent lawmakers from cutting programs it supports. They are urging cuts in defense spending instead.

“The most corrupt government spending is military spending,” Wallis said. “Its cost overruns, outdated weapons systems, welfare checks to military contractors.”

“This is a biblical choice of swords into plowshares directly and the House Republicans want to beat our ploughshares into more swords," he said. "These priorities that they’re offering are not just wrong or unfair, they’re unbiblical.”

On Sunday, Boenher gave a speech that framed the government’s mounting debt as a moral issue.

"We have a moral responsibility to address the problems we face. That means working together to cut spending and rein in government - not shutting it down," Boehner said. "This is very simple: Americans want the government to stay open, and they want it to spend less money. We don't need to shut down the government to accomplish that."

Boehner's remarks were included in a speech he delivered to the National Religious Broadcasters annual convention in Nashville.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/28/new-budget-campaign-asks-what-would-jesus-cut/

[DenverBrit]

Sadly, until we get electoral reform and changes in the procedures that gets bills passed, it will be business as usual; ie, whatever the lobbyists want.

[Rohirrim]

"When Jesus talked about how God will judge nations, he said that God will focus on what we did or did not do for the neediest among us."

If that's the criteria, we're up **** creek.

[TonyR]

That's really the riddle of the modern "conservative" movement: pro war, pro torture, pro big business, pro rich, pro gun, anti poor, anti environment, anti science, anti education, anti tolerance, etc.

I mean, really: calling these people—the Limbaugh/Fox News/Gingrich/Tea Party set—conservatives is almost as much a misnomer as calling Obama a Marxist or liberals Communists. These people need to read their Burke, their Hayek—even (am I really saying this?) their Buckley. And, of course, their Oakeshott," - Hendrik Hertzberg
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/hendrikhertzberg/2011/03/andrew-frankly.html

[Rigs11]

"When Jesus talked about how God will judge nations, he said that God will focus on what we did or did not do for the neediest among us."

If that's the criteria, we're up **** creek.

that's socialism!!

[baja]

Why does God need to judge us?

What a crazy idea, unless you are using the myth as a form of crowd control than it's brilliant

[mhgaffney]

Nature bats last.

That' will be judgement enough.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

that's socialism!!

Ha!

That's exactly what EpicFail's Jesus would say.

http://28.media.tumblr.com/ikh5nWKjce2v97dlPTUIugTpo1_400.jpg

[Obushma]

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7OeQ5dcBltg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Westboro Wins Final Court Battle; Marine's Family Saddened

Slain Marine's Father: What Is This Country Becoming?

<noscript>http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/ibs.bal.custom4/local;kw=r+rectangle+27052370;ad=true;pgtype=detai l;tile=3;sz=250x250;ord=123456789? (http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/ibs.bal.custom4/local;kw=r+rectangle+27052370;ad=true;pgtype=detai l;tile=3;sz=250x250;ord=123456789?)</noscript>

WASHINGTON -- A lawsuit filed against the Westboro Baptist Church that won judgment in Baltimore ultimately lost at the Supreme Court, and the family who filed the suit is now questioning where the country is headed.The First Amendment protects fundamentalist church members who mount attention-getting, anti-gay protests outside military funerals, The Supreme Court ruled (http://www.wbaltv.com/pdf/27052330/detail.html) Wednesday. <table class="clkImgTbl" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="240"><tbody><tr><td valign="top">

http://www.wbaltv.com/2010/0331/23012214_240X180.jpg (http://www.wbaltv.com/image/23012214/detail.html)Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder
</td></tr></tbody></table>

The court voted 8-1 in favor of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan.The decision upheld an appeals court ruling that threw out a $5 million judgment to the father of the late Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, who died in Iraq in 2006. Albert Snyder sued church members after they picketed his son's funeral in Westminster.Albert Snyder filed a lawsuit against the group and won in Baltimore Federal Court, but the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Va., ordered that he pay costs (http://www.wbaltv.com/news/22990714/detail.html) associated with Westboro leader Fred Phelps' appeal.The church contends that U.S. military deaths are God's punishment for tolerance of homosexuality. Albert Snyder filed a lawsuit accusing the Phelpses of intentionally inflicting emotional distress. He won $11 million at trial, later reduced by a judge to $5 million.The Snyder family discussed the ruling Wednesday afternoon."My first thought was that eight justices don't have the common sense God gave a goat," Albert Snyder said. "We found out today that we can no longer bury our dead in this country with dignity. What is this country becoming?"
"My first thought was that eight justices don't have the common sense God gave a goat. We found out today that we can no longer bury our dead in this country with dignity."
- Albert Snyder

He said while the outcome wasn't what he wanted, his family fought a good fight. Snyder said he feels sorry for other families who may to endure what his did."These justices, they don’t have to worry about this because the Westboro Baptist Church and any other nut-job church out there like this will never get anywhere near their families or their funerals," he said. Roberts: First Amendment Shields Funeral Protesters

Chief Justice John Roberts wrote the opinion for the court. Justice Samuel Alito dissented.
(http://www.wbaltv.com/pdf/27052330/detail.html)[/URL]
Roberts said the First Amendment shields the funeral protesters, noting that they obeyed police directions and were 1,000 feet from the church."Speech is powerful. It can stir people to action, move them to tears of both joy and sorrow, and -- as it did here -- inflict great pain. On the facts before us, we cannot react to that pain by punishing the speaker," Roberts said. "As a nation we have chosen a different course -- to protect even hurtful speech on public issues to ensure that we do not stifle public debate."Alito strongly disagreed.
"As a nation we have chosen a different course -- to protect even hurtful speech on public issues to ensure that we do not stifle public debate."

- Chief Justice John Roberts
"Our profound national commitment to free and open debate is not a license for the vicious verbal assault that occurred in this case."
- Justice Samuel Alito
"Our profound national commitment to free and open debate is not a license for the vicious verbal assault that occurred in this case," he said."What Chief Justice Roberts did was say this was not really about funerals -- this was a case about speech on public property," said First Amendment expert Mark Graber, an associate dean at the University of Maryland School of Law.

He said he was initially surprised by the ruling, but after giving it a closer look, he said the decision puts the burden on states and local jurisdictions on how they will handle this type of issue in the future."Maryland did not have a law in place banning this sort of speech. Had Maryland had a more specific law targeting speech directed at people at funerals, that law might have been constitutional, but that law didn't exist," Graber said.Forty-eight states, 42 U.S. senators and veterans groups sided with Snyder, asking the court to shield funerals from the Phelps family's "psychological terrorism."

Meanwhile, the Phelpses said they will continue their activity."We're still back to the basic proposition. Soldiers are dying for the sins of this nation," Margie Phelps said after the ruling.While distancing themselves from the church's message, Hearst Corp., The Associated Press and 19 other media organizations have called on the court to side with the Phelpses because of concerns that a victory for Snyder could erode speech rights.The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press and 21 news media organizations [URL="http://www.wbaltv.com/pdf/25304263/detail.html"]filed a brief amici (http://www.wbaltv.com/surveyresults/27052641/feature.html) curiae, or friend of the court brief, about how a ruling could also affect freedom of the press.Roberts described the court's holding as narrow, and in a separate opinion, Justice Stephen Breyer suggested in other circumstances, governments would not be "powerless to provide private individuals with necessary protection."But in this case, Breyer said, it would be wrong to "punish Westboro for seeking to communicate its views on matters of public concern." From the Supreme Courts opinions to yours, the following are some comments from WBAL-TV's page on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/wbaltv11/posts/197894393562417). Share your comment (http://www.wbaltv.com/r/27052370/detail.html#COMMENTTOP) below in our u local section and we could read some on 11 News.

[ant1999e]

Half the **** you guys posted had nothing to do with the topic. Just turned it into another Christian bashing thread. You remind me of the idiots in the Youtube video in post #9.

[baja]

Half the **** you guys posted had nothing to do with the topic. Just turned it into another Christian bashing thread. You remind me of the idiots in the Youtube video in post #9.

Why do Christians always feel persecuted when in fact it is the beliefs that are being questioned, talk about your narcissists.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Half the **** you guys posted had nothing to do with the topic. Just turned it into another Christian bashing thread. You remind me of the idiots in the Youtube video in post #9.

Nice.

Instead of attacking Phelps, et al, you attack the messenger.

Phelps thanks you for having his back. :wave:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Half the **** you guys posted had nothing to do with the topic. Just turned it into another Christian bashing thread. You remind me of the idiots in the Youtube video in post #9.

BTW, for the record, I have nothing against Christ: It's His fan club that's a bunch of hypocritical a$$holes.

[baja]

BTW, for the record, I have nothing against Christ: It's His fan club that's a bunch of hypocritical a$$holes.

I deeply embrace the teachings of Jesus, it's the man make, crowd control version of the teachings that I have a problem with and only then because it keeps people form knowing a real God and entitles those that believe the altered teachings to inflict their will on others as a mandate from God.

[Rigs11]

Why do Christians always feel persecuted when in fact it is the beliefs that are being questioned, talk about your narcissists.

Ant is your typical rightwing Christian.he has no problem bashing other religions but when his Christian ilk are questioned, he turns into a victim.typical

[ant1999e]

BTW, for the record, I have nothing against Christ: It's His fan club that's a bunch of hypocritical a$$holes.

Aren't all humans hypocrites?

[ant1999e]

Nice.

Instead of attacking Phelps, et al, you attack the messenger.

Phelps thanks you for having his back. :wave:

No, Phelps and his crew are evil people. They suck at life. I just don't see what they had to do with the OP.

[ant1999e]

Ant is your typical rightwing Christian.he has no problem bashing other religions but when his Christian ilk are questioned, he turns into a victim.typical

No, but it's easier for you to assume that. I have no problem with other religions. We all have free will.

So, when you speak badly about Christians it's called "questioning" but when Christians speak negatively of other religions you call it "bashing"? Seems to me all you who "question" Christians are just as bad as the Christians who "question" other religions.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Aren't all humans hypocrites?

No.

As hard as it may be to believe, there are actually people in this world whose walk matches their talk - including some Christians.

You just don't see them very often because Phelps, et al, grab the headlines.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

No, Phelps and his crew are evil people. They suck at life.

I just don't see what they had to do with the OP.

Tangentially related, I suppose, but I didn't want to start a new thread.

[baja]

No, but it's easier for you to assume that. I have no problem with other religions. We all have free will.

So, when you speak badly about Christians it's called "questioning" but when Christians speak negatively of other religions you call it "bashing"? Seems to me all you who "question" Christians are just as bad as the Christians who "question" other religions.

You are so identified with being Christian you can't separate questioning parts of the ideology from personal attack. That sense of persecution is dangerous and leads to events such as the Crusades.

[ant1999e]

You are so identified with being Christian you can't separate questioning parts of the ideology from personal attack. That sense of persecution is dangerous and leads to events such as the Crusades.

Maybe you're right.

[epicSocialism4tw]

These kinds of threads are hilarious. The only time that lefties like Jesus is when they can warp him into a liberal.

Kind of like the radical islamists do with Jesus.

As long as Jesus fits in with their leftist religion, he's okay. Other than that? Kill him with red tape and legislate him out of existence.

[DenverBrit]

These kinds of threads are hilarious. The only time that lefties like Jesus is when they can warp him into a liberal.

Kind of like the radical islamists do with Jesus.

As long as Jesus fits in with their leftist religion, he's okay. Other than that? Kill him with red tape and legislate him out of existence.

....and the right wing nut jobs!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_k_ICSkAB1hk/SsUeyTZXA2I/AAAAAAAADVE/YUa0meP8gJM/s320/bible+spice.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3562/4051250214_ebd4ce7694_z.jpg

[NUB]

It's kind of strange to apply liberal/conservative to a time period where such ideas didn't really exist. The philosophy of Jesus, and religion is more or less mankind's first attempts at philosophy, does not reflect the political inclinations of the Republican party: the preference for opulence, the disregard for the poor, the push for wars in foreign countries, torture of enemy prisoners, etc. Jesus had a philosophy deep in respect for the poor and humble, of non-violence toward neighbors and to be merciful individuals, etc. As I have said in the past, it's very curious in American politics that the most Christian sects of society are very pro-war, but the hippie culture that is anti-war wants nothing to do with Christianity. Politics can warp anything, to be sure.

[mhgaffney]

Good thoughtful post, Nub.

I would add: the philosophy of Jesus was not new in the first century CE. The teachings of Jesus are virtually identical with the yogic teachings of India which predated Jesus by several thousand years -- at least.

Indeed - the Indian Vedas are so old no one knows when they were written. And they were an oral tradition for thousands of years before they were written down.

Jesus was both a teacher and a student of these high teachings. He visited India - during the "lost years" -- where he was known as "Issa" -- then brought these teachings to the West.

If you substitute "kundalini" for "holy spirit" the parallels are clear.

[alkemical]

No.

As hard as it may be to believe, there are actually people in this world whose walk matches their talk - including some Christians.

You just don't see them very often because Phelps, et al, grab the headlines.

everyone's a hypocrite labf. everyone. that's why 'to err' makes us human.

[epicSocialism4tw]

It's kind of strange to apply liberal/conservative to a time period where such ideas didn't really exist. The philosophy of Jesus, and religion is more or less mankind's first attempts at philosophy

A couple of contradictory points...

Philosophy is not something that has ever been "attempted". It is the natural process of man reacting to his environment. Its his genetic predisposition juxtaposed and contraposed with social and natural influences. Its mans attempt to formulate a sensible way to deal with cognitive dissonance.

So, philosophy didnt "begin" somewhere, its intricately tied to Homo sapiens in every step throughout his evolutionary history.

And if you want to find a discernable beginning to much of modern Western philosophy, you want to look at Socrates, who predates Jesus by 500 years.

does not reflect the political inclinations of the Republican party: the preference for opulence, the disregard for the poor, the push for wars in foreign countries, torture of enemy prisoners, etc. Jesus had a philosophy deep in respect for the poor and humble, of non-violence toward neighbors and to be merciful individuals, etc. As I have said in the past, it's very curious in American politics that the most Christian sects of society are very pro-war, but the hippie culture that is anti-war wants nothing to do with Christianity. Politics can warp anything, to be sure.

I dont think that you understand general American conservative philosophy.

Most conservatives believe that people deserve to be given the freedom to be the masters of their own domains. Within the conservative community you have the largest percentage of charitable givers in the United States, who give both personal time and money to causes that aid the poor.

The leniency of American justice system can be attributed directly to the development of said system under the guidance of Christians.

I talked to a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago, who is a Jordanian national who works in the government there and has worked all over the middle east with the Jordanian govt. He tried to convince me over and over that we are just too easy on criminals here in America...that criminals deserve harsher punishments. That they need to have fingers cut off and hands cut off and eyes removed, etc. Those things are unimaginable here, and that is directly attributable to the mercy of Christianity.

[ant1999e]

Jesus had a philosophy deep in respect for the poor and humble, of non-violence toward neighbors and to be merciful individuals, etc. As I have said in the past, it's very curious in American politics that the most Christian sects of society are very pro-war, but the hippie culture that is anti-war wants nothing to do with Christianity. Politics can warp anything, to be sure.

Jesus was an advocate for the poor but it was about giving of yourself to help others not taking from some and giving to others.

[alkemical]

Jesus was an advocate for the poor but it was about giving of yourself to help others not taking from some and giving to others.

Which is why I am against subsidies.

[mhgaffney]

A couple of contradictory points...

Philosophy is not something that has ever been "attempted". It is the natural process of man reacting to his environment. Its his genetic predisposition juxtaposed and contraposed with social and natural influences. Its mans attempt to formulate a sensible way to deal with cognitive dissonance.

So, philosophy didnt "begin" somewhere, its intricately tied to Homo sapiens in every step throughout his evolutionary history.

And if you want to find a discernable beginning to much of modern Western philosophy, you want to look at Socrates, who predates Jesus by 500 years.



I dont think that you understand general American conservative philosophy.

Most conservatives believe that people deserve to be given the freedom to be the masters of their own domains. Within the conservative community you have the largest percentage of charitable givers in the United States, who give both personal time and money to causes that aid the poor.

The leniency of American justice system can be attributed directly to the development of said system under the guidance of Christians.

I talked to a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago, who is a Jordanian national who works in the government there and has worked all over the middle east with the Jordanian govt. He tried to convince me over and over that we are just too easy on criminals here in America...that criminals deserve harsher punishments. That they need to have fingers cut off and hands cut off and eyes removed, etc. Those things are unimaginable here, and that is directly attributable to the mercy of Christianity.

Unfortunately, this is not true.

Neo conservatives today believe in US exceptionalism -- which means that the US can do no wrong -- because God anointed the US to lead the world.

Conservatives cheered Bush and Cheney enthusiastically as we bombed and invaded nation after nation.

In the name of freedom.

A revolting lie. Which is why conservatives today are totally discredited.

[ant1999e]

everyone's a hypocrite labf. everyone. that's why 'to err' makes us human.

I think that the level of hypocracy today is part of society's problem. We chastise one group when they do something but defend it and point fingers when it's our side. Goes back to your narcissism thread.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Unfortunately, this is not true.

Neo conservatives today believe in US exceptionalism -- which means that the US can do no wrong -- because God anointed the US to lead the world.

Conservatives cheered Bush and Cheney enthusiastically as we bombed and invaded nation after nation.

In the name of freedom.

A revolting lie. Which is why conservatives today are totally discredited.

If this is what you believe, then we can all rest assured knowing that everything that you say comes from crazy far-liberal wack job ville, and that you are always wrong.

[mhgaffney]

Once upon a time -- I had respect for conservatives. I actually supported Barry Goldwater back in 1964.

But the neo conservatives of today are a different breed. They claim to be fiscally responsible -- but are perfectly happy to flush trllions down the toilet on foreign wars --

This started under Ronnie Ray-gun.

Genuine conservatives like Paul Craig Roberts, Pat Buchanan, even George Will have seen through and exposed the fraud -- but clowns like you still don't get it.

[baja]

These kinds of threads are hilarious. The only time that lefties like Jesus is when they can warp him into a liberal.

Kind of like the radical islamists do with Jesus.

As long as Jesus fits in with their leftist religion, he's okay. Other than that? Kill him with red tape and legislate him out of existence.

What I find hilarious are people that think they are the only ones that gets Jesus and after they establish that for everyone proceed to pass judgement on lefties and righties in the very next sentence.

[epicSocialism4tw]

What I find hilarious are people that think they are the only ones that gets Jesus and after they establish that for everyone proceed to pass judgement on lefties and righties in the very next sentence.

Jesus is only useful for lefties when they think they can use him to point a judgmental finger at their political enemies on the right.

Its an Alinsky tactic.

Thats why these kinds of threads are funny. They dont care anything about Jesus, who he is, what he stands for, or anything else. The only thing that they care about Jesus is that nobody who is employed by the city is able to admit that he existed.

[DenverBrit]

A couple of contradictory points...

Philosophy is not something that has ever been "attempted". It is the natural process of man reacting to his environment. Its his genetic predisposition juxtaposed and contraposed with social and natural influences. Its mans attempt to formulate a sensible way to deal with cognitive dissonance.

So, philosophy didnt "begin" somewhere, its intricately tied to Homo sapiens in every step throughout his evolutionary history.

And if you want to find a discernable beginning to much of modern Western philosophy, you want to look at Socrates, who predates Jesus by 500 years.



I dont think that you understand general American conservative philosophy.

Most conservatives believe that people deserve to be given the freedom to be the masters of their own domains. Within the conservative community you have the largest percentage of charitable givers in the United States, who give both personal time and money to causes that aid the poor.

The leniency of American justice system can be attributed directly to the development of said system under the guidance of Christians.

I talked to a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago, who is a Jordanian national who works in the government there and has worked all over the middle east with the Jordanian govt. He tried to convince me over and over that we are just too easy on criminals here in America...that criminals deserve harsher punishments. That they need to have fingers cut off and hands cut off and eyes removed, etc. Those things are unimaginable here, and that is directly attributable to the mercy of Christianity.


No country jails its citizens like the US does......even China, that godless country, pales in comparison.
To claim that 'Christians' are the guiding influence of a "lenient" justice system is laughable. And you live in Texas.

The US jails more per-capita and has more of its citizens in prisons than any other nation.

The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world.[3][4] The U.S. incarceration rate on June 30, 2009 was 748 inmates per 100,000 U.S. residents, or 0.75%.[5] The USA also has the highest total documented prison and jail population in the world.[3][6][7]

By comparison in 2006, the incarceration rate in England and Wales was 148 persons imprisoned per 100,000 residents; the rate for Norway was 66 inmates per 100,000 and the rate in New Zealand was 186 per 100,000.[3] In Australia in 2005, the rate was 126 prisoners per 100,000 residents.[3] In the Netherlands, the 2002 rate was 93 per 100,000 residents.[27]

U.S. prison population dwarfs that of other nations
The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population. But it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/world/americas/23iht-23prison.12253738.html

[epicSocialism4tw]

No country jails its citizens like the US does......even China, that godless country, pales in comparison.
To claim that 'Christians' are the guiding influence of a "lenient" justice system is laughable. And you live in Texas.

The US jails more per-capita and has more of its citizens in prisons than any other nation.



U.S. prison population dwarfs that of other nations
The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population. But it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/world/americas/23iht-23prison.12253738.html

There isnt really any specific point you are making there.

[DenverBrit]

There isnt really any specific point you are making there.

Yeah, it was vague, ambiguous, cryptic. Hilarious!

[epicSocialism4tw]

Yeah, it was vague, ambiguous, cryptic. Hilarious!

Nothing was vague, but you really didnt make any relevant point.

How does having a large prison population relate to lack of leniency? Do you have a statistic that measures how many people are running around without fingers in the middle east?

[DenverBrit]

Nothing was vague, but you really didnt make any relevant point.

How does having a large prison population relate to lack of leniency? Do you have a statistic that measures how many people are running around without fingers in the middle east?

How does Christian leniency translate to the world's largest prison population? (We have 5% of the population, 25% of the world's prisoners)

When did imprisonment and the death penalty become the trademark of Christianity's leniency??

Why don't you explain your 'brand' of Christianity, because mass imprisonment and death penalties are not attributes of the Christian church I grew up with.

As for how many people are running around the ME without fingers, I have no idea. Do you??

[epicSocialism4tw]

How does Christian leniency translate to the world's largest prison population? (We have 5% of the population, 25% of the world's prisoners)

When did imprisonment and the death penalty become the trademark of Christianity's leniency??

Why don't you explain your 'brand' of Christianity, because mass imprisonment and death penalties are not attributes of the Christian church I grew up with.

As for how many people are running around the ME without fingers, I have no idea. Do you??

I made that comparison because we put people in jail for major theft, while in many places in the mideast, they are stoned, lashed, lose limbs, or are killed.

Prisons there are used for torture to get information.

Thats due to a difference in philosophy. One values the lives of even criminals, the other does not.

[alkemical]

I think that the level of hypocracy today is part of society's problem. We chastise one group when they do something but defend it and point fingers when it's our side. Goes back to your narcissism thread.

That's the great thing about dealing with narcissists: it's always your/their/etc fault. Never their own, no responsability.

No ability to think and converse. Transparency...ha! Obama had it right. He is the perfect reflection of our society. WE are transparent. Our WORD is seen right through. How do you trust someone who is self interested?

[baja]

I don't think Obama is as transparent as you think.

[alkemical]

I don't think Obama is as transparent as you think.

oh, i think he's perfectly "clear". :D

[baja]

oh, i think he's perfectly "clear". :D

yes you would see it that way

[baja]

was that a trick answer?

[baja]

or a trick question.

[alkemical]

was that a trick answer?

you'll figure it out.

[baja]

you'll figure it out.

Tell me what I will figure out.

[alkemical]

Tell me what I will figure out.

I forget.

[cutthemdown]

I don't care about the jesus slant but it is a joke neither side wants to cut military.

You would think they would at least throw out like a 10% cut in military spending. Something?

[cutthemdown]

Just curious though people do realize the best way to cut is to reduce troop levels right? How hard do you want it to be to get into the military? My dad never makes it off the farm without being able to join the Navy.

I think if someone wants to join the military, they should always be able to if they meet the requirements. They need to cut some other way IMO.

[alkemical]

Well, this is part of the problem: we need to cut programs, but not mine!

[Odysseus]

It's kind of strange to apply liberal/conservative to a time period where such ideas didn't really exist. The philosophy of Jesus, and religion is more or less mankind's first attempts at philosophy, does not reflect the political inclinations of the Republican party: the preference for opulence, the disregard for the poor, the push for wars in foreign countries, torture of enemy prisoners, etc. Jesus had a philosophy deep in respect for the poor and humble, of non-violence toward neighbors and to be merciful individuals, etc. As I have said in the past, it's very curious in American politics that the most Christian sects of society are very pro-war, but the hippie culture that is anti-war wants nothing to do with Christianity. Politics can warp anything, to be sure.

There is very little discussion about the poor anywhere.

[baja]

I forget.

LOL

[epicSocialism4tw]

There is very little discussion about the poor anywhere.

Except for among churches.

[alkemical]

There is very little discussion about the poor anywhere.

"poor me" doesn't count?

The only thing I hear about the poor is how they are lazy and steal $.

[alkemical]

LOL

:)

[cutthemdown]

You can bet if they do close bases and cut projects they will be in democratic controlled states and cities.

[alkemical]

http://www.disinfo.com/2011/03/why-evangelical-christians-hate-jesus/

Why Evangelical Christians Hate Jesus

Posted by majestic on March 7, 2011
The Four Evangelists, by Jakob Jordaens

The Four Evangelists, by Jakob Jordaens

Phil Zuckerman, Professor of Sociology at Pitzer College in Claremont, CA, reveals some wonderfully ironic facts about the loudest bible bashers, at Huffington Post:

The results from a recent poll published by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life reveal what social scientists have known for a long time: White Evangelical Christians are the group least likely to support politicians or policies that reflect the actual teachings of Jesus.

It is perhaps one of the strangest, most dumb-founding ironies in contemporary American culture. Evangelical Christians, who most fiercely proclaim to have a personal relationship with Christ, who most confidently declare their belief that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, who go to church on a regular basis, pray daily, listen to Christian music, and place God and His Only Begotten Son at the center of their lives, are simultaneously the very people most likely to reject his teachings and despise his radical message.

Jesus unambiguously preached mercy and forgiveness. These are supposed to be cardinal virtues of the Christian faith. And yet Evangelicals are the most supportive of the death penalty, draconian sentencing, punitive punishment over rehabilitation, and the governmental use of torture. Jesus exhorted humans to be loving, peaceful, and non-violent. And yet Evangelicals are the group of Americans most supportive of easy-access weaponry, little-to-no regulation of handgun and semi-automatic gun ownership, not to mention the violent military invasion of various countries around the world.

Jesus was very clear that the pursuit of wealth was inimical to the Kingdom of God, that the rich are to be condemned, and that to be a follower of Him means to give one’s money to the poor. And yet Evangelicals are the most supportive of corporate greed and capitalistic excess, and they are the most opposed to institutional help for the nation’s poor — especially poor children. They hate anything that smacks of “socialism,” even though that is essentially what their Savior preached. They despise food stamp programs, subsidies for schools, hospitals, job training — anything that might dare to help out those in need. Even though helping out those in need was exactly what Jesus urged humans to do.

In short, Evangelicals are that segment of America which is the most pro-militaristic, pro-gun, and pro-corporate, while simultaneously claiming to be most ardent lovers of the Prince of Peace.

What’s the deal?…

[continues at at Huffington Post]

[epicSocialism4tw]

http://www.disinfo.com/2011/03/why-evangelical-christians-hate-jesus/

Why Evangelical Christians Hate Jesus

Posted by majestic on March 7, 2011
The Four Evangelists, by Jakob Jordaens

The Four Evangelists, by Jakob Jordaens

Phil Zuckerman, Professor of Sociology at Pitzer College in Claremont, CA, reveals some wonderfully ironic facts about the loudest bible bashers, at Huffington Post:

The results from a recent poll published by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life reveal what social scientists have known for a long time: White Evangelical Christians are the group least likely to support politicians or policies that reflect the actual teachings of Jesus.

It is perhaps one of the strangest, most dumb-founding ironies in contemporary American culture. Evangelical Christians, who most fiercely proclaim to have a personal relationship with Christ, who most confidently declare their belief that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, who go to church on a regular basis, pray daily, listen to Christian music, and place God and His Only Begotten Son at the center of their lives, are simultaneously the very people most likely to reject his teachings and despise his radical message.

Jesus unambiguously preached mercy and forgiveness. These are supposed to be cardinal virtues of the Christian faith. And yet Evangelicals are the most supportive of the death penalty, draconian sentencing, punitive punishment over rehabilitation, and the governmental use of torture. Jesus exhorted humans to be loving, peaceful, and non-violent. And yet Evangelicals are the group of Americans most supportive of easy-access weaponry, little-to-no regulation of handgun and semi-automatic gun ownership, not to mention the violent military invasion of various countries around the world.

Jesus was very clear that the pursuit of wealth was inimical to the Kingdom of God, that the rich are to be condemned, and that to be a follower of Him means to give one’s money to the poor. And yet Evangelicals are the most supportive of corporate greed and capitalistic excess, and they are the most opposed to institutional help for the nation’s poor — especially poor children. They hate anything that smacks of “socialism,” even though that is essentially what their Savior preached. They despise food stamp programs, subsidies for schools, hospitals, job training — anything that might dare to help out those in need. Even though helping out those in need was exactly what Jesus urged humans to do.

In short, Evangelicals are that segment of America which is the most pro-militaristic, pro-gun, and pro-corporate, while simultaneously claiming to be most ardent lovers of the Prince of Peace.

What’s the deal?…

[continues at at Huffington Post]


Wow, there are alot of half-educated stereotypes in there.

[TailgateNut]

Wow, there are alot of half-educated stereotypes in there.


seems on target to me.

[mhgaffney]

Absolutely on target.

[DenverBrit]

seems on target to me.

Absolutely agree.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Who wouldve guessed? The hyperliberals and the wacko agree in their stereotypes.

[AK Broncomaniac]

Absolutely on target.

Sounds right to me :)

[DenverBrit]

Wow, there are alot of half-educated stereotypes in there.

I can see why you would say that. Earlier in this thread you made the claim that:
The leniency of American justice system can be attributed directly to the development of said system under the guidance of Christians.
But this is the reality. And unless you're suffering from ADD, you know this to be the truth:
Jesus unambiguously preached mercy and forgiveness. These are supposed to be cardinal virtues of the Christian faith. And yet Evangelicals are the most supportive of the death penalty, draconian sentencing, punitive punishment over rehabilitation, and the governmental use of torture.

[TonyR]

...unless you're suffering from ADD, you know this to be the truth:

Oh he's clearly suffering from worse than ADD. And for some reason these faux conservatives aren't commenting on this. I said this earlier in the thread:

That's really the riddle of the modern "conservative" movement: pro war, pro torture, pro big business, pro rich, pro gun, anti poor, anti environment, anti science, anti education, anti tolerance, etc.

[DenverBrit]

Oh he's clearly suffering from worse than ADD. And for some reason these faux conservatives aren't commenting on this. I said this earlier in the thread:

I was being nice, but you're probably right, it's more serious. Ha!

There's a disconnect when someone claims to be a devout Christian but spends a lot of time lying and smearing those who disagree with his right wing political views.

I witnessed that behavior in TX and OK in the 80's during the 'born again' craze.
The televangelists and evangelicals were at one of their hypocritical peaks; lying and stealing in the name of Jesus.

[cutthemdown]

You can't judge church based on tv church. That would be like saying your relationships are the same as the Bachelor or OC housewives.

If you really want to see what the normal american Christian is like just go to your neighborhood church. Trust me you will find a lot of good people. I'm not religious, and I agree the Catholic church seems to have a lot of problems with molestations, but I still think the majority of Christians do a lot of good, and that the bad ones don't seem to matter much. The fringe groups just don't seem to have any following in the communities around the USA.

[DenverBrit]

You can't judge church based on tv church. That would be like saying your relationships are the same as the Bachelor or OC housewives.

If you really want to see what the normal american Christian is like just go to your neighborhood church. Trust me you will find a lot of good people. I'm not religious, and I agree the Catholic church seems to have a lot of problems with molestations, but I still think the majority of Christians do a lot of good, and that the bad ones don't seem to matter much. The fringe groups just don't seem to have any following in the communities around the USA.

I don't, but there are large groups who declare themselves Christians but who's deeds contradict their claim. As for Catholics, I grew up in the Catholic Church, they also are a mixed bunch..... some good, some should be locked up. ;D

I volunteer with faith based charities in Denver and agree that those 'Christians' do a lot of good works.

[baja]

The true reward in life is being in service, organized or not.

[Odysseus]

I can see why you would say that. Earlier in this thread you made the claim that:

But this is the reality. And unless you're suffering from ADD, you know this to be the truth:

As a student of the bible I consistently offended by Christian brothers who have no idea what words come from out of their mouths. Nothing that is pointed out in the bible disproves anything for them. They are immune from logic and even their own words cannot be used to reprove these hard hearts who scream church but no nothing about compassion.

Isalm, at it's roots, started out with compassion at it's core but like all religions has failed and it's followers hold on to the shadow of the intended ideal. Some of the best "Christians" I know are atheist. They don't believe in church. They believe in doing the right things. Why should they stoop so low as to embrace any version of God with so much apparent hypocrisy?

Islam and Christian teaching both teach of end of days. I wonder how closely aligned this comes to end of religion? New age Christianity is a general softening of the biblical tenants.

There are a lot of discussions which cannot find any root here that would be of interest to secular and church goer alike. They end up food for thought.

Salah!

[cutthemdown]

What would be better. Cut troop levels to make Army budget cheaper. Or telling troops they have to take a pay cut? Or do it at the top and say let's fire a certain amount of generals etc etc. I know less officers at Pentagon been discussed.

Missile defense seems untouchable but I'm sure a lot of you would love to see that totally scrapped. I think that is like 10 billion a yr.

[JJJ]

You can't judge church based on tv church. That would be like saying your relationships are the same as the Bachelor or OC housewives.

If you really want to see what the normal american Christian is like just go to your neighborhood church. Trust me you will find a lot of good people. I'm not religious, and I agree the Catholic church seems to have a lot of problems with molestations, but I still think the majority of Christians do a lot of good, and that the bad ones don't seem to matter much. The fringe groups just don't seem to have any following in the communities around the USA.

Exactly this.

The good work churches do in this country on a voluntary basis far outweigh any damage the wacko fringe groups among them do in harm.

By far churches are the biggest contributor to local good of any type of organization. And if you throw in the Scouts, the YMCA, the United Way and the other clubs that came out christian roots and the effects are even higher.

[cutthemdown]

Exactly this.

The good work churches do in this country on a voluntary basis far outweigh any damage the wacko fringe groups among them do in harm.

By far churches are the biggest contributor to local good of any type of organization. And if you throw in the Scouts, the YMCA, the United Way and the other clubs that came out christian roots and the effects are even higher.

Also I think if an FBI agent asked to talk with people in a church, and told them there help was needed because a fringe Christian group is trying to recruit from the young kids, you would have overwhelming support to help you. Only weird cults would shun law enforcement.

I'm not convinced you can say the same of the average Mosque.

[cutthemdown]

The big thing right now in religion and politics is the congressman in charge on homeland security is about to start hearing on the radicalization of American muslims, and how the fbi can get better cooperation from the leaders in the Muslim Mosques.

It could get ugly.

[mhgaffney]

Exactly this.

The good work churches do in this country on a voluntary basis far outweigh any damage the wacko fringe groups among them do in harm.

By far churches are the biggest contributor to local good of any type of organization. And if you throw in the Scouts, the YMCA, the United Way and the other clubs that came out christian roots and the effects are even higher.

You are deranged.

The mainstream Christian churches cheered the neocon wars of aggression. This is because 90%+ of Christians do not understand their own religion.

Jesus taught peace -- not war. Unfortunately, today's Christians think Jesus was a Capitalist.

Christianity never advanced a single step after the third century CE. It was all downhill once CHristians began persecuting the gnostics, Jews, and pagans.

[TailgateNut]

You are deranged.

The mainstream Christian churches cheered the neocon wars of aggression. This is because 90%+ of Christians do not understand their own religion.

Jesus taught peace -- not war. Unfortunately, today's Christians think Jesus was a Capitalist.

Christianity never advanced a single step after the third century CE. It was all downhill once CHristians began persecuting the gnostics, Jews, and pagans.


Tolerance is a foreign word fot most Christians.

[cutthemdown]

I don't go to church so I can't say whether it cheered the war. I highly doubt it though. I doubt very seriously the churches in the USA were often cheering for war. Probably saying prayers for brave young men fighting for country but what is wrong with that?

You make it sound like they were like bombs are killing Muslims!!! YEAH PRAISE THE LORD. George Bush is Strong!!!! he has killed many today. Oh praise or lord and savior and enable us to kill in your name. We will now bow our heads in prayer.

Dear Lord, please enable George Bush to kill in your name. Expand this terror war to include all who oppose your teachings. As we kill please let us bathe in the blood of our enemies and eat there babies!. We ask this in your name. Ahmen.

Now a tune from our choir who will sing the classic, Onward Christian Soldiers.......err oh i guess that one is true. :)

[cutthemdown]

Tolerance is a foreign word fot most Christians.

Oh so now your giving foreigners credit for tolerance. ****ing B.S. Oh wait i better put a funny avatar or people can't process it for what it is. Let me see here..................:oyvey:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The mainstream Christian churches cheered the neocon wars of aggression. This is because 90%+ of Christians do not understand their own religion.



Funny how these so-called "Christians" don't see how they're at odds with the teachings of Christ, isn't it?

[AK Broncomaniac]

Can I just say that you SERIOUSLY need to actually READ the Bible!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Tolerance is a foreign word fot most Christians.

Yep.

Most of them are all about "ours is the only true religion," unfortunately.

[Odysseus]

Yep.

Most of them are all about "ours is the only true religion," unfortunately.

What makes humans unique are that we are a combination of animal and spirit. It is a flawed existence at best. Just when you figure out how to be humble you start to compete on who can be more humble or better or more saintly than another person.

How can we have so many resources to educate ourselves and yet as a nation be retarded? We lack common sense, common courtesy, and are literally getting dummerererer by the hour. Education is a secular high ground yet we are failing? Why?

[baja]

You are deranged.

The mainstream Christian churches cheered the neocon wars of aggression. This is because 90%+ of Christians do not understand their own religion.

Jesus taught peace -- not war. Unfortunately, today's Christians think Jesus was a Capitalist.

Christianity never advanced a single step after the third century CE. It was all downhill once CHristians began persecuting the gnostics, Jews, and pagans.

That's not why they were for the war. You can't have the "Rapture" without first having your blow out war in the Middle East. It is written.

[alkemical]

What makes humans unique are that we are a combination of animal and spirit. It is a flawed existence at best. Just when you figure out how to be humble you start to compete on who can be more humble or better or more saintly than another person.

How can we have so many resources to educate ourselves and yet as a nation be retarded? We lack common sense, common courtesy, and are literally getting dummerererer by the hour. Education is a secular high ground yet we are failing? Why?


What exactly are we "educating" people on?

[mhgaffney]

That's not why they were for the war. You can't have the "Rapture" without first having your blow out war in the Middle East. It is written.

Yeah -- it's nutty.

One third will be lifted up -- even as Armageddon unfolds.

But where is the scriptural support for the Rapture? It's non existent.

[baja]

Yeah -- it's nutty.

One third will be lifted up -- even as Armageddon unfolds.

But where is the scriptural support for the Rapture? It's non existent.

The Rapture is kinda like K-Mart's the "Blue Light Special", it came later to enhance to mission statement of the church. It makes for better crowd control. Once you have the rapture card to play well that's mighty powerful right there. Only way to improve on that idea would be to toss 40 virgins into the deal.

[Rohirrim]

What would Jesus do?

He would gather his followers around him in some peaceful forest and he would ask them to sit with him and enjoy the kingdom of heaven within them...

... after which the followers would promptly fall asleep.

Blessed are the cheesemakers!

[baja]

What would Jesus do?

He would gather his followers around him in some peaceful forest and he would ask them to sit with him and enjoy the kingdom of heaven within them...

... after which the followers would promptly fall asleep.

Blessed are the cheesemakers!

ever see the movie "The Buddha"?

[Rohirrim]

ever see the movie "The Buddha"?

Nope.

[alkemical]

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_17553507

"Farm" owners

Tom Cruise
Actor
Property: Five parcels of land on a mesa northwest of Telluride, about 248 acres in a region of high-end vacation homes
Property tax: $400

Gail Schwartz
State senator
Property: 15.4 acres of partially irrigated meadowland near Basalt
Property tax: $54.52

Charlie Ergen
Media mogul
Property: The Enchanted Mesa Ranch, nearly 600 acres near Ridgway
Property tax: $3,185

Walker Stapleton
Treasurer
Property: 180 acres near Castle Rock
Property tax: $116

Klaus Obermeyer
Ski pioneer
Property: 3.2 acres along a road that parallels Colorado 82 near Basalt
Property tax: $27.80

Goldie Hawn
Actor
Property: 34.56 acres and a 2,700- square-foot home that adjoins Kurt Russell's property with two residences
Property tax: $2,873

[AK Broncomaniac]

I will bow out of this discussion because there is no reasoning here. My departing thought to all of you is simply, READ YOUR BIBLE! Know that God sent his son, Jesus Christ, to die for your sins... past, present, and future. Acknowlege your sin, accept Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour and spend eternity in Heaven. Otherwise, you'll be able to continue your debate through all eternity... in HELL. :)

[baja]

I will bow out of this discussion because there is no reasoning here. My departing thought to all of you is simply, READ YOUR BIBLE! Know that God sent his son, Jesus Christ, to die for your sins... past, present, and future. Acknowlege your sin, accept Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour and spend eternity in Heaven. Otherwise, you'll be able to continue your debate through all eternity... in HELL. :)

Why would an all knowing, all powerful, all loving God get His panties in a bunch and go and create a hell where His children would go and suffer for an eternity?

Does not the idea of hell sound like a convenient invention by man?

[Rohirrim]

I will bow out of this discussion because there is no reasoning here. My departing thought to all of you is simply, READ YOUR BIBLE! Know that God sent his son, Jesus Christ, to die for your sins... past, present, and future. Acknowlege your sin, accept Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour and spend eternity in Heaven. Otherwise, you'll be able to continue your debate through all eternity... in HELL. :)

I like the smilie face at the end. Hilarious!

[DenverBrit]

I will bow out of this discussion because there is no reasoning here. My departing thought to all of you is simply, READ YOUR BIBLE! Know that God sent his son, Jesus Christ, to die for your sins... past, present, and future. Acknowlege your sin, accept Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour and spend eternity in Heaven. Otherwise, you'll be able to continue your debate through all eternity... in HELL. :)

Will there be virgins?? :curtsey:

[Odysseus]

What exactly are we "educating" people on?

People need to learn how to read, how to count, how to think, and how to listen. Americans should not have this as an issue. This will never happen because the teary eyed people who can burn a billion on some **** farmers across the globe cannot support developing it's own.

MTV has destroyed the attention span of a generation. Anything more than two sentences and a person taps out. This will never happen because stupid people are better consumers.

I would like to see bilingualism started at an earlier age, teach kids about how money, economics, and REAL politics. We are part of global community and our kids are not being taught this. This will never happen because it's "unAmerican" and communist.

All the money we are dumping overseas we can dump wholesale into infrastructure projects. This gives the lower half of the population jobs which turns into spending, saving, and jump starting the economy. This will never happen unless the fat cat's get paid.

American loves it's gridlock.