PDA

View Full Version : Which player do you LEAST want the Broncos to draft at #2?


montrose
03-01-2011, 09:19 PM
Clemson DE Da'Quan Bowers
http://www.vikingsgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/DaQuan-Bowers.jpg

Pros: Led nation in sacks, good work ethic/character, 2010 Broncos finished last in sacks.
Cons: Only one year of big-time production, some injury issues, already have Elvis Dumervil and Robert Ayers on roster.

Auburn DT Nick Fairley
http://www.vikingsgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Nick-Fairley.jpg

Pros: Dominant in SEC play and national championship game. Fits major position of need, natural fit in Broncos new 4-3 Defense as 3T.
Cons: Questionable work ethic/character, only one year of big-time production, wins on ability-limited technique.

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/patrick-peterson-lsu.jpg

Pros: Arguably best player in draft. Dominated over entire college career. Top-flight return skills.
Cons: Cornerback not as great a need for Broncos as Front-7, no defensive back has ever gone higher than #3.

http://proprospects.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/von-miller.jpg?w=594&h=375

Pros: Highly athletic, can get after the QB. Dominanted competition at Senior Bowl. Versatile.
Cons: May fit better in 3-4 defense. Is he 4-3 DE or WLB? Potential risk projecting player to different skillset than used in college.

http://proprospects.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/marcell-dareus.jpg

Pros: Key player on national championship team, consistent over long period of time. Well coached with good technique. Fits position of strong need.
Cons: Perceived limited ceiling. Some believe fits better as a 3-4 DE than 4-3 DT.

Archer81
03-01-2011, 09:23 PM
Out of those choices? Von Miller.

My absolute will hate it if they do it is if they take a QB...


:Broncos:

The Joker
03-01-2011, 09:47 PM
Miller.

He's a fantastic OLB prospect in a 3-4, but in a 4-3 I'm not sure what the best spot is for him. That uncertainty alone should rule out using the #2 overall pick on him.

Furthermore, the two spots he seems like he might fit on our defense are actually positions where we're in pretty good shape (RDE and WLB).

Dedhed
03-01-2011, 10:50 PM
I could live with any of those guys really. If we could trade back and still get one of them, I'd be psyched.

schaaf
03-01-2011, 11:01 PM
For me... Nick Fairley. I don't want him at all.

Every other one I would be perfectly fine with. However, I feel that we could very easily trade down and still get Miller. I don't think he is worth the #2 but I feel he will be very good even in a 4-3.

Miller showed at the Senior Bowl that he is good in Coverage and he showed at the combine with his speed (fastest of the LB's I believe) that he has the speed to be an OLB in a 4-3

broncocalijohn
03-01-2011, 11:09 PM
I wouldnt go Garcia Bronco or Jake nutso over any of the choices but I dont see Miller as a fit in what we are doing and what we need. Front 7 is all I ask.

NFLBRONCO
03-01-2011, 11:09 PM
Fairley and Bowers scare me. Miller is my least favorite besides if no Peterson def. want to go DL.

lostknight
03-01-2011, 11:15 PM
The combine has made me more of a believer in Peterson and Fairley. Don't want Bowers. Dareus if this coach wants to be safe.

Given our new defensive coordinator sometimes runs a 3-3-5, I think Peterson is the likely choice.

footstepsfrom#27
03-01-2011, 11:38 PM
I don't recall reading anything on Peterson about character issues. Miller is the guy I'd want least at #2. He plays a positon of little need right now and he's smaller than I want to see them go with in this new defense. It's time to get bigger and stronger.

BMarsh615
03-01-2011, 11:43 PM
Dareus or Fairley should be the pick anybody else is just dumb IMO.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-01-2011, 11:50 PM
I'll talk myself into any of those choices, but i think its insane to keep rebuilding the secondary and continuously ignoring the front seven

gunns
03-02-2011, 06:01 AM
You never know how any draft pick will actually turn out so I can't say one way or another. As long as it's not offensive, it's good with me. While I'd prefer DL, I do not think our secondary is set at all.

Dr. Broncenstein
03-02-2011, 06:04 AM
I'll be pissed if we take Newton / Gabbert / Green with the second pick.

BroncoInferno
03-02-2011, 06:21 AM
I don't recall reading anything on Peterson about character issues. Miller is the guy I'd want least at #2. He plays a positon of little need right now and he's smaller than I want to see them go with in this new defense. It's time to get bigger and stronger.

Miller projects to weakside linebacker in the 4-3. He weighed in at 246 at the combine (in addition to running a 4.53 40), which is pretty big for a 4-3 weakside backer. There has also been talk of playing DJ at middle LB, which would open a spot at weakside for Miller. He has a rare skill set and we'd be lucky to get him.

BMarsh615
03-02-2011, 06:29 AM
Miller projects to weakside linebacker in the 4-3. He weighed in at 246 at the combine (in addition to running a 4.53 40), which is pretty big for a 4-3 weakside backer. There has also been talk of playing DJ at middle LB, which would open a spot at weakside for Miller. He has a rare skill set and we'd be lucky to get him.

He is a passrusher. His skill set would be wasted as an OLB in a 4-3.

BroncoInferno
03-02-2011, 06:57 AM
He is a passrusher. His skill set would be wasted as an OLB in a 4-3.

Obviously, if we drafted him that high, Fox and Allen would have more in mind for him than the traditional 4-3 weakside LB role. Don't be so short-sighted. Ever here of "getting creative?" Think Terrell Suggs. The Ravens played a 4-3 for much of his career with the team, but they found creative ways to use him. Julian Peterson was another example of the sort of player Miller could be for us.

oubronco
03-02-2011, 07:05 AM
I would be pissed if we took Bowers i'd prefer Quinn if we took a DE but it will be a mistake to pass on Dareus IMO

BroncoInferno
03-02-2011, 07:12 AM
I would be pissed if we took Bowers i'd prefer Quinn if we took a DE

Why? The only reason to dislike Bowers is because you think he is a one year wonder. But if that is the case, you should like Quinn even less. He's a one year wonder who didn't even play last season.

oubronco
03-02-2011, 07:18 AM
Why? The only reason to dislike Bowers is because you think he is a one year wonder. But if that is the case, you should like Quinn even less. He's a one year wonder who didn't even play last season.

Exactly why I would rather take Dareus, but if we were to take a DE I just feel by watching highlights and such that Quinn is a better player. Of course it's just my thought and not everybody agrees but I just see Quinn being more disruptive

Pick Six
03-02-2011, 07:26 AM
Patrick Peterson would be a wasted pick, without addressing the lack of front line pressure...

BroncoInferno
03-02-2011, 07:42 AM
Exactly why I would rather take Dareus, but if we were to take a DE I just feel by watching highlights and such that Quinn is a better player. Of course it's just my thought and not everybody agrees but I just see Quinn being more disruptive

As a Clemson fan, I have seen every game of Bowers career, and the notion that he is a "one year wonder" is simply not accurate. Did he put up the stats or dominate like he did as a junior? No. But wasn't some bum either.

Rohirrim
03-02-2011, 07:43 AM
If it's not a Dlineman, I'm not interested.

jhns
03-02-2011, 07:48 AM
I voted Miller but I wouldn't mind any of those guys. I will only hate the selection if it isn't one of the listed guys. I will be pretty mad/confused if they go offense. I picked Miller only because I haven't seen any "experts" project him to go that high.

TheChamp24
03-02-2011, 08:00 AM
Miller because he's not worth the 2nd pick in the draft.
I don't know why people think Peterson would be a wasted pick.
I think Miller would be a wasted pick for us because he has no position for us.

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 08:03 AM
i want nothing to do with Fairley, Peterson or Bowers.

give me either of Dareus or Miller.

if we can't trade back then Dareus has to be the pick. If we can move back to something like 4 or 5 then Millier better be the pick.

BroncoInferno
03-02-2011, 08:04 AM
Has it occured to anyone that the Panthers may take Dareus at #1? He seems to be overtaking Fairley as the top DT in the eyes of many, and the Panthers have a big need at DT.

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 08:10 AM
Miller because he's not worth the 2nd pick in the draft.
I don't know why people think Peterson would be a wasted pick.
I think Miller would be a wasted pick for us because he has no position for us.

Peterson would be a wasted pcik for the reason of, it doesn't matter how good your secondary is, if your front 7 is terrible. we have had the best all around CB in the game in our secondary for 7 years and it hasn't done a damn thing for us because our front 7 has sucked.

with a Corner, you can avoid that player as teams do with Champ. because of that it would be a wasted pick, because at #2 you need the guy to be a presence and playmaker on the field.

let's say Peterson is as good as his hype leads you to believe. let's say he locks down the other half of the field opposite of Champ. it won't matter, simply because defenses will see the tandem and decide to dink and dunk on our weak front 7. slot receivers being covered by Nickle corners, TE being covered by Haggan or any other retread we have at LB, RBs catching passes out of the backfield, and teams gashing our defense with the running game.

Corners can be avoided, and for a team that has so many needs in the front 7, it would be a huge mistake to take Peterson.

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 08:12 AM
Has it occured to anyone that the Panthers may take Dareus at #1? He seems to be overtaking Fairley as the top DT in the eyes of many, and the Panthers have a big need at DT.

i honestly think Dareus will be gone before we pick.

if that happens my dream scenario would be a team like Arizona or someone to work a trade with us to get Bowers at 2, we move back to 5, and get Miller while picking up another 2nd rounder.

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 08:14 AM
He is a passrusher. His skill set would be wasted as an OLB in a 4-3.

bull****. with good defensive minds in control. they would use his talents. think of using him like Suggs was used a few years ago. dude would be a beast in a 3-4 or 4-3

Rohirrim
03-02-2011, 08:23 AM
Has it occured to anyone that the Panthers may take Dareus at #1? He seems to be overtaking Fairley as the top DT in the eyes of many, and the Panthers have a big need at DT.

Okay by me. Then we take Fairley. It's all good. ;D

BroncoInferno
03-02-2011, 08:45 AM
Okay by me. Then we take Fairley. It's all good. ;D

Yeah, I still prefer Fairley to Dareus. He may have a more scheme specific skill set, but as a 4-3 under tackle I think he is going to be a dominator. Dareus, to me, is not a dominator. He may be more well-rounded and "safer" than Fairley, but he doesn't have nearly the upside. Plus, I don't think Fairley's bust-potential is nearly as high as some make it seem, provided he ends up in the right scheme, which I believe we will be operating.

TheChamp24
03-02-2011, 08:56 AM
Peterson would be a wasted pcik for the reason of, it doesn't matter how good your secondary is, if your front 7 is terrible. we have had the best all around CB in the game in our secondary for 7 years and it hasn't done a damn thing for us because our front 7 has sucked.

with a Corner, you can avoid that player as teams do with Champ. because of that it would be a wasted pick, because at #2 you need the guy to be a presence and playmaker on the field.

let's say Peterson is as good as his hype leads you to believe. let's say he locks down the other half of the field opposite of Champ. it won't matter, simply because defenses will see the tandem and decide to dink and dunk on our weak front 7. slot receivers being covered by Nickle corners, TE being covered by Haggan or any other retread we have at LB, RBs catching passes out of the backfield, and teams gashing our defense with the running game.

Corners can be avoided, and for a team that has so many needs in the front 7, it would be a huge mistake to take Peterson.

You can't think just this year, you have to think long term.
Peterson has a shot to become a perennial All Pro and top 5 CB in the league, his skillsets are THAT GOOD.
Champ has age and will be moved to safety at some point.
Goodman is old.
Cox has off the field troubles.
Thompson is nothing to look forward to at this moment.

You act like if we take Peterson, we have no other picks and can't use any on the front 7.

We could take Peterson round 1
Corey Liuget round 2
Martez Wilson round 2

Look at that, get a stud CB and good prospects at DT and MLB.

BroncoSojia
03-02-2011, 09:13 AM
Fairley or Miller.

I wouldn't mind Dareus, Peterson, Bowers, or Quinn at #2

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 09:23 AM
You can't think just this year, you have to think long term.
Peterson has a shot to become a perennial All Pro and top 5 CB in the league, his skillsets are THAT GOOD.
Champ has age and will be moved to safety at some point.
Goodman is old.
Cox has off the field troubles.
Thompson is nothing to look forward to at this moment.

You act like if we take Peterson, we have no other picks and can't use any on the front 7.

We could take Peterson round 1
Corey Liuget round 2
Martez Wilson round 2

Look at that, get a stud CB and good prospects at DT and MLB.

i am thinking long term, and the best course of action for any team that is rebuilding a team is to start in the trenches. guys on the line, front 7 players. positions like WR, and CB are afterhtoughts and are picks made by teams that have already addressed the front 7.

what i am trying to say is why just draft random DL help in the later rounds when we have a shot at the best DT in the draft? the DL draft class is deep this year, but there is still a big dropoff in talent from Dareus to the 2nd tier guys

i am not worried about the secondary at all, simply because if you can march out a dominant front 7, that can stop the run and get consistent pressure with the DL alone and with occasional blitz packages, then you can have just an ok secondary with no superstars and it will look decent.

EXAMPLE when Shanahan was looking for the quick fix a few seasons ago to prevent Manning from raping us in the playoffs, he went about it wrong. new players in the secondary weren't the pressing issue, the fact that our front 7 couldn't put Manning on his ass was the problem.

RunSilentRunDeep
03-02-2011, 09:32 AM
You can't think just this year, you have to think long term.
Peterson has a shot to become a perennial All Pro and top 5 CB in the league, his skillsets are THAT GOOD.
Champ has age and will be moved to safety at some point.
Goodman is old.
Cox has off the field troubles.
Thompson is nothing to look forward to at this moment.

You act like if we take Peterson, we have no other picks and can't use any on the front 7.

We could take Peterson round 1
Corey Liuget round 2
Martez Wilson round 2

Look at that, get a stud CB and good prospects at DT and MLB.

Are you an Illinois fan? If so, you the first one I've seen say anything positive about Wilson.

Drek
03-02-2011, 10:07 AM
The combine has made me more of a believer in Peterson and Fairley. Don't want Bowers. Dareus if this coach wants to be safe.

Given our new defensive coordinator sometimes runs a 3-3-5, I think Peterson is the likely choice.

Can't run a 3-3-5 if you can't put out a worthwhile 3 man line. A key to New Orleans running that style of nickel is Sedrick Ellis who can play DT in a 4-3 and either NT or DE in a 3-4 in bursts. He's also a good comparable to Dareus.

My order of that list would be:
1. Dareus
2. Peterson
3. Bowers
4. Miller
5. Fairley

I have big questions about Fairley. He's an amazing talent but he literally checks all the boxes on bad DT signs. One year of elite production, lives on ability with limited technique, played at a premier school with good talent around him, Juco transfer who didn't even start his first year in D1A. He might be amazing, but he also might be a massive bust.

If we were just converting to a 3-4, not the other way around, and didn't have a first round pick invested in Ayers from just a couple years ago I'd be all for Miller. He's very similar to DeMarcus Ware. Faster and not quite as powerful, but the potential is there and he could be an all-pro sack monster in the league. I think he'll be a great NFL player but he can't play end in a 4-3 and he's never shown the ability to play in space like he'd have to as a 4-3 OLB. If we could get him between 5-10 after acquiring more picks it'd be worth the gamble, but not at #2.

I like Bowers overall makeup and he might give Peterson a run if he shows in private workouts to be a Mario Williams/Julius Peppers level athlete while at 280. But the injury questions plus the fact that we've got young talent at each DE spot (Doom and Ayers) makes me have to downgrade him.

Peterson is the dream template for a CB. Unprecedented size teamed with all world speed and agility, not to mention phenomenal ball skills and game breaking ability when he does get the ball in his hands. Fox and Allen could move him around and use him to help fill needs at CB, S, and in the return game. I'd absolutely love adding Peterson to the roster, but it does look away from our single biggest need by a mile and that is a legit three down DT.

Which brings us to Dareus. The "safe bet" three down DT who has shown the ability to play the DE and NT spots in a 3-4 when asked. Highly productive for multiple seasons in college and should fit into a 4-3 NT spot just fine a la Albert Haynesworth. He also lets us move to 3 man fronts for our nickel packages if we so desire which would let us make use of the last two years that Doom and Ayers have spent learning to play in space. He fills the biggest need and is very close to Peterson as a prospect.

But as long as its Dareus/Peterson I don't think we can go wrong. One of the two will be on the board. If we can trade out with a QB hungry team so much the better because we'll probably still get one of the two as long as we don't leave the top 6 or 7 spots.

Pony Boy
03-02-2011, 10:41 AM
I'm sick and tired of watching Rivers have time to check off to his 4th receiver and if no one is open run to the corner untouched for a 1st down......

Fairely or Dareus..... period.

Shananahan
03-02-2011, 10:48 AM
What Drek said.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-02-2011, 10:48 AM
I think we are kidding ourselves if we think we are going to get a difference making DT in the 2nd round. We might get some depth at DE, but the good DT's are going in the first round.

I think Patrick Peterson is an excellent prospect, but I want Dareus or Bowers. Fairley will have a hard time anchoring against the run in the NFL. He is not an every down player right now.

However, I am concerned that Carolina will take Dareus #1.

underrated29
03-02-2011, 11:14 AM
Patrick Peterson while a stud is more than likely not going to be as good as nnmandi, or revis or champ. He just wont. He is big and fast. But so was Matt Jones and Wesley Duke and Brandon Browner <--same size?


Would you trade the #2 overall for NNamdi or Revis? a proven Vet- who is still real young? I would not. If that position was so important we would make a run at nnamdi and keep our pick to get a player we need.




How many times has Doom come just inches away from the QB, but then the QB steps up into the pocket and makes a pass? How many? - ALL the freaking time.
What would happen if we got a guy that collapsed the pocket and chased the QB right into Doom? What would happen then?

and a by product of that, what will happen with the WORST RUN Defense in the league? Oh, that will also get better too. One guy makes sense. Another guy is a perfect freaking fit!!

schaaf
03-02-2011, 11:19 AM
**** that, I would trade the #2 for revis in a heartbeat

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 11:24 AM
I think we are kidding ourselves if we think we are going to get a difference making DT in the 2nd round. We might get some depth at DE, but the good DT's are going in the first round.

I think Patrick Peterson is an excellent prospect, but I want Dareus or Bowers. Fairley will have a hard time anchoring against the run in the NFL. He is not an every down player right now.

However, I am concerned that Carolina will take Dareus #1.

need Bowers to wow Carolina so we can get Dareus

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 11:26 AM
**** that, I would trade the #2 for revis in a heartbeat

i will throw my tv out the window if we did that

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-02-2011, 11:26 AM
need Bowers to wow Carolina so we can get Dareus

Hopefully he runs a 4.4 at his pro day! :thumbs:

underrated29
03-02-2011, 11:26 AM
**** that, I would trade the #2 for revis in a heartbeat


Glad you are not our DC then.

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 11:28 AM
Glad you are not our DC then.

seconded

Mogulseeker
03-02-2011, 12:04 PM
I want Peterson on our team.

Rohirrim
03-02-2011, 12:08 PM
Why would anybody who wants Peterson not be willing to trade the #2 for Revis? ???

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 12:19 PM
Why would anybody who wants Peterson not be willing to trade the #2 for Revis? ???

i don't want either

schaaf
03-02-2011, 12:23 PM
Glad you are not our DC then.

I swear you two think that there is only one move we can make this offseason and that move is at the Second pick.

It's almost as if you think that we don't have 5 other picks, free agency, or trading.

Many scouts have labeled this as the deepest Defensive Line Draft... ever!

To hell with every other move we could make in the offseason. If we don't go DT with our first pick I'm going to drive into oncoming traffic.

Don't even try and come back with that bull **** that "you build the team from line out" or "we've seen what it is like to have an all pro corner and our defense is still bad" because guess what, we have four picks in the first 67 picks, not just one

We had one in Champ, our other corners are always below average starting quality. There is a reason GM's and Coaches believe that the foundations for football teams are QB, LT, D-End, and then CB

underrated29
03-02-2011, 12:28 PM
i don't want either

Seconded.

Willynowei
03-02-2011, 12:31 PM
I still haven't come to grips with the fact that the Denver freaking Broncos are drafting #2 in the NFL draft, when was the last time in history that we were so ****ing bad?

underrated29
03-02-2011, 12:37 PM
I swear you two think that there is only one move we can make this offseason and that move is at the Second pick.

It's almost as if you think that we don't have 5 other picks, free agency, or trading.

Many scouts have labeled this as the deepest Defensive Line Draft... ever!

To hell with every other move we could make in the offseason. If we don't go DT with our first pick I'm going to drive into oncoming traffic.

Don't even try and come back with that bull **** that "you build the team from line out" or "we've seen what it is like to have an all pro corner and our defense is still bad" because guess what, we have four picks in the first 67 picks, not just one

We had one in Champ, our other corners are always below average starting quality. There is a reason GM's and Coaches believe that the foundations for football teams are QB, LT, D-End, and then CB



You are right it is the deepest DL draft ever. So lets take advantage of it. PP will NOT improve our defense much. Do you remember the year doom led the league in sacks? Our pass Defense was ranked #4!!! Why was that. Is it because champ was sooo Bomb, and goody was all pro?

Nope, it was because we got after the qb and forced them to make mistakes. I want the best player for our team that WILL make an impact. dareus/fairley/bowers/quinn/miller/watt etc. PP is the last person on that list. of that list.


Would you rather take:

Fairley/Dareus-1
harris/clayborn/bailey/paea/lopez/wilson-2a (one will be there)
wright/duenta/rudolph etc 2b

or

PP-1
hope that paea is still there or taylor at DT-2a
Hope that one of the first round graded DEs are still there 10 picks later at 2b


That is a boom or bust draft. Sure, those guys could be there, but probably not. If they are not, we yet, once again have ignored our biggest weakness for the past 7 years on DL. We have not gotten an elite run stuffer or pass rusher despite having the 2nd worst record in the nfl and 2nd best pick in the draft.

If they are there, then we absolutely nailed it!!!!! and Got Elite talents at all of our holes. But we are a 4 win team who IMO can not take risks like that. We need sure things and we need them now. AJ Green and JUlio JONEs are sure things too. Probably more so than PP, but we are not looking at them, because they do not fill a need.

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 12:44 PM
I still haven't come to grips with the fact that the Denver freaking Broncos are drafting #2 in the NFL draft, when was the last time in history that we were so ****ing bad?

5-11 during the 1990 season was the worst the team had ever been under the 16 game season format.

also there were a few 2 win seasons but those were in the early 60s and were in 14 game seasons

schaaf
03-02-2011, 12:46 PM
and guess who we have back on the team... Doom. That will help tremendously.

I want either Dareus or Peterson. No matter what, I do not want Fairley. I wouldn't take him at #10.

In the second there could still be Heyward, Kerrigan, Liuget, Austin, Paea, Bailey, Taylor.

More than one of those guys will still be around when we come on in the second.

All I'm saying is that our Secondary needs additions to it as much if not more than our Line. We don't know what it would be like to have two Pro Bowl corners.

We are also a 4 win team that cannot afford to draft Nick Fairley and not have him be in the league three years from now.

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 12:46 PM
You are right it is the deepest DL draft ever. So lets take advantage of it. PP will NOT improve our defense much. Do you remember the year doom led the league in sacks? Our pass Defense was ranked #4!!! Why was that. Is it because champ was sooo Bomb, and goody was all pro?

Nope, it was because we got after the qb and forced them to make mistakes. I want the best player for our team that WILL make an impact. dareus/fairley/bowers/quinn/miller/watt etc. PP is the last person on that list. of that list.


Would you rather take:

Fairley/Dareus-1
harris/clayborn/bailey/paea/lopez/wilson-2a (one will be there)
wright/duenta/rudolph etc 2b

or

PP-1
hope that paea is still there or taylor at DT-2a
Hope that one of the first round graded DEs are still there 10 picks later at 2b


That is a boom or bust draft. Sure, those guys could be there, but probably not. If they are not, we yet, once again have ignored our biggest weakness for the past 7 years on DL. We have not gotten an elite run stuffer or pass rusher despite having the 2nd worst record in the nfl and 2nd best pick in the draft.

If they are there, then we absolutely nailed it!!!!! and Got Elite talents at all of our holes. But we are a 4 win team who IMO can not take risks like that. We need sure things and we need them now. AJ Green and JUlio JONEs are sure things too. Probably more so than PP, but we are not looking at them, because they do not fill a need.

hell yeah on this post!

also on a side note, Julio Jones is going to be a beast

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 12:48 PM
and guess who we have back on the team... Doom. That will help tremendously.

I want either Dareus or Peterson. No matter what, I do not want Fairley. I wouldn't take him at #10.

In the second there could still be Heyward, Kerrigan, Liuget, Austin, Paea, Bailey, Taylor.

More than one of those guys will still be around when we come on in the second.

All I'm saying is that our Secondary needs additions to it as much if not more than our Line. We don't know what it would be like to have two Pro Bowl corners.

We are also a 4 win team that cannot afford to draft Nick Fairley and not have him be in the league three years from now.

With Doom returning one thing that will greatly help him aside from if Ayers proves to be good opposite of him back in his natural position is if we have a legit threat up the middle. If a combo of Bannan and Dareus can cause some disruptions it only makes Doom look all the more better

HAT
03-02-2011, 12:50 PM
what i am trying to say is why just draft random DL help in the later rounds when we have a shot at the best DT in the draft? the DL draft class is deep this year, but there is still a big dropoff in talent from Dareus to the 2nd tier guys



Tom Brady, TD, Shannon Sharpe, Chris Carter, Rod Smith, Jared Allen, Jason Taylor, Leon Lett, Richard Dent, Zach Thomas and many, many others say hi.

Sure....Dareus & Fairley are the top rated DT's but nobody knows for sure what the drop off is to the next group. Liuget, Wilkerson, Paea, Taylor, Austin, etc.

underrated29
03-02-2011, 12:51 PM
and guess who we have back on the team... Doom. That will help tremendously.

I want either Dareus or Peterson. No matter what, I do not want Fairley. I wouldn't take him at #10.

In the second there could still be Heyward, Kerrigan, Liuget, Austin, Paea, Bailey, Taylor.

More than one of those guys will still be around when we come on in the second.

All I'm saying is that our Secondary needs additions to it as much if not more than our Line. We don't know what it would be like to have two Pro Bowl corners.

We are also a 4 win team that cannot afford to draft Nick Fairley and not have him be in the league three years from now.




I get that.
And I completely spaced Heyward, not sure how could forget about him. Disagree about fairley-understand what you mean, but i think he will not bust, maybe not be the superstar he is made out to be but I think he likely not bust. But the big red flag is there regardless.


Honestly, imo kerrigan, luiget, bailey and Paea will end up going before our 2a pick. But who knows, they certianly could still be there. That is what makes the draft so exciting. Just a shame there is no FA now to really shore up some spots.

Rohirrim
03-02-2011, 12:52 PM
Fairley and Bowers will be stars in the NFL. I'll be happy with either of them. Given that we already have Doom and Ayers, I would go with Fairley.

schaaf
03-02-2011, 12:52 PM
That is Why I would LOVE Dareus.

Dareus and Peterson are my 1 and 1A. People also forget its a lot easier to find quality DT's in a 4-3. We have Bannan, Thomas, Williams, and Fields. Bannan and Thomas I believe will excel in a 4-3. Thomas and Williams will help rotation. Dareus will be a stud. Fairley will be a bust.

If we can get Dareus, Then we get him. If we can't then IMO we need to pick Peterson.

HAT
03-02-2011, 01:08 PM
Has it occured to anyone that the Panthers may take Dareus at #1? He seems to be overtaking Fairley as the top DT in the eyes of many, and the Panthers have a big need at DT.

Yes....And fingers crossed. That's the best case scenario for Denver being able to trade back to somebody looking for their choice of QB.

Maybe Elway can work his Stanford connection & sell Harbaugh on moving up for Gabbert. :thumbs:

Shananahan
03-02-2011, 01:13 PM
If we can get Dareus, Then we get him. If we can't then IMO we need to pick Peterson.
This is where I'm at as well. I could live with anybody else of the top rated defensive linemen, though.

DomCasual
03-02-2011, 01:19 PM
I have an uneasy feeling about Fairley. I would have a hard time getting past that, if I was the one pulling the trigger on the pick.

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 01:21 PM
Tom Brady, TD, Shannon Sharpe, Chris Carter, Rod Smith, Jared Allen, Jason Taylor, Leon Lett, Richard Dent, Zach Thomas and many, many others say hi.

Sure....Dareus & Fairley are the top rated DT's but nobody knows for sure what the drop off is to the next group. Liuget, Wilkerson, Paea, Taylor, Austin, etc.

what about Suh and Mario Williams.

top picks that were number 2 and number 1 overall that are some of the best at their positions.

yes, late round gems are found, but it is a hell of a lot easier to pick up the gem staring you in the face than it is to search for one.

you can also add Doom and Marshall, Mecklenburg, and a number of others to the late round picks who became badasses in the NFL

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 01:22 PM
I have an uneasy feeling about Fairley. I would have a hard time getting past that, if I was the one pulling the trigger on the pick.

i feel the same way. i look at him and get the feeling that for every big play he makes, there will be one stupid play or mistake he makes

Rohirrim
03-02-2011, 01:29 PM
I have an uneasy feeling about Fairley. I would have a hard time getting past that, if I was the one pulling the trigger on the pick.

Nah. It's just youthful exuberance. You just can't process him with a normal brain. ;D

HAT
03-02-2011, 01:30 PM
what about Suh and Mario Williams.



Peterson is this year's Suh. He just plays a different position. :thumbs:

DomCasual
03-02-2011, 01:39 PM
Nah. It's just youthful exuberance. You just can't process him with a normal brain. ;D

I realize that, and that's why I haven't been that outspoken about it. The other players on the list look like droopy-eyed, armless children compared to him.

baja
03-02-2011, 01:48 PM
Peterson is this year's Suh. He just plays a different position. :thumbs:

This; If we stay at two I want Peterson.

schaaf
03-02-2011, 01:50 PM
Peterson is this year's Suh. He just plays a different position. :thumbs:

I agree, I know that a Dominant CB won't have as much impact as a Dominant DT (SUH) but if you feel that Peterson will be dominant, you don't let him slip by you because you "need more help in the front seven"

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 02:01 PM
I agree, I know that a Dominant CB won't have as much impact as a Dominant DT (SUH) but if you feel that Peterson will be dominant, you don't let him slip by you because you "need more help in the front seven"

at #2, we have a shot at the most dominant at every position

Dareus at DT, Miller, at LB, Peterson at CB, Julio Jones(screw Green, Jones is the gem) at WR, Bowers at DE

with that in mind, get the dominant player for the position that has been overlooked for years.

Drek
03-02-2011, 02:17 PM
Tom Brady, TD, Shannon Sharpe, Chris Carter, Rod Smith, Jared Allen, Jason Taylor, Leon Lett, Richard Dent, Zach Thomas and many, many others say hi.

Sure....Dareus & Fairley are the top rated DT's but nobody knows for sure what the drop off is to the next group. Liuget, Wilkerson, Paea, Taylor, Austin, etc.

Why do people keep making this kind of argument?

What is the percentage of finding an all-pro in the later rounds? Probably 1% at the very best per pick.

How about in the top 5? Odds sure go up a hell of a lot more don't they?

This isn't a situation where you trade a little risk for lower cost. You trade a LOT of risk for lower cost. Massive amounts of additional risk. The Broncos are at a point where they need to stop going low cost/high risk on DT solutions. Sack up, spend the value on someone like Dareus, and maybe actually solve one DT spot for the next 10 years.

If draft picks are like throwing darts in the first round you get to throw from about 10' away, unobstructed view. The second round you're throwing from 20. The third you're throwing from 30. Come the 4th you start having to throw with a partially obstructed view. By the 7th round you're chucking darts blindfolded after a quick prayer.

TheChamp24
03-02-2011, 02:45 PM
at #2, we have a shot at the most dominant at every position

Dareus at DT, Miller, at LB, Peterson at CB, Julio Jones(screw Green, Jones is the gem) at WR, Bowers at DE

with that in mind, get the dominant player for the position that has been overlooked for years.

Should we draft the once in a decade type prospect for his position, ie Peterson, or do we draft the top DT prospect?

In a sense, would you trade the #2 pick for the next Deion Sanders?
Or would you rather trade the #2 pick for the next Dan Wilkerson, Aaron Curry?

I get why we need to look at DT, and I think Dareus would be a great pick, I also believe Peterson would be a fantastic pick.

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 02:49 PM
Should we draft the once in a decade type prospect for his position, ie Peterson, or do we draft the top DT prospect?

In a sense, would you trade the #2 pick for the next Deion Sanders?
Or would you rather trade the #2 pick for the next Dan Wilkerson, Aaron Curry?

I get why we need to look at DT, and I think Dareus would be a great pick, I also believe Peterson would be a fantastic pick.
i use the pick on the guy who will play a bigger role on the team.

DT has to be acknowledged on every snap. you can throw away from a Corner(ask Champ)

also, i'd take Champ in his prime over Deion in his any day. not being a homer, but Deion couldn't tackle to save his life

baja
03-02-2011, 03:08 PM
i use the pick on the guy who will play a bigger role on the team.

DT has to be acknowledged on every snap. you can throw away from a Corner(ask Champ)

also, i'd take Champ in his prime over Deion in his any day. not being a homer, but Deion couldn't tackle to save his life

Yes but he was the one player that put two different teams over the top for the super bowl win. Dallas & SF.

HAT
03-02-2011, 03:16 PM
Why do people keep making this kind of argument?

What is the percentage of finding an all-pro in the later rounds? Probably 1% at the very best per pick.

How about in the top 5? Odds sure go up a hell of a lot more don't they?

This isn't a situation where you trade a little risk for lower cost. You trade a LOT of risk for lower cost. Massive amounts of additional risk. The Broncos are at a point where they need to stop going low cost/high risk on DT solutions. Sack up, spend the value on someone like Dareus, and maybe actually solve one DT spot for the next 10 years.

If draft picks are like throwing darts in the first round you get to throw from about 10' away, unobstructed view. The second round you're throwing from 20. The third you're throwing from 30. Come the 4th you start having to throw with a partially obstructed view. By the 7th round you're chucking darts blindfolded after a quick prayer.

I can't speak for anyone else but I was making it to a very specific point of bman4ever's that the drop off is so huge between the two tier 1 DT's and the next group of 4 or 5 who might be there in round 2....Or that Denver could trade back into the first round and for sure get.

Yes, I used examples of last day selections and UDFA's but that was just to illustrate that if they can be found there then certainly they can be found in the 20's and 30's....Especially this year.

HAT
03-02-2011, 03:22 PM
you can throw away from a Corner(ask Champ)



That's the conventional wisdom of why SD corners shouldn't be drafted so high..."But you can throw to the other side of the field!"

Well, what if Champ IS the other side of the field?

Again....Almost every argument against Peterson as Denver's first round pick seems to assume that the front seven won't otherwise be addressed?

Do you guys seriously think that Denver would draft Peterson and then follow him up with a TE, OL-man and an RB?

Rohirrim
03-02-2011, 03:37 PM
That's the conventional wisdom of why SD corners shouldn't be drafted so high..."But you can throw to the other side of the field!"

Well, what if Champ IS the other side of the field?

Again....Almost every argument against Peterson as Denver's first round pick seems to assume that the front seven won't otherwise be addressed?

Do you guys seriously think that Denver would draft Peterson and then follow him up with a TE, OL-man and an RB?

Nope. It's just that the odds are that if you save that DT pick for later rounds your chances of getting anybody to replace what we already have goes way down. Take Fairley or Dareus and you just took hands-down a better DT than what we've got, and in all likelihood, a starter.

HAT
03-02-2011, 03:46 PM
Nope. It's just that the odds are that if you save that DT pick for later rounds your chances of getting anybody to replace what we already have goes way down. Take Fairley or Dareus and you just took hands-down a better DT than what we've got, and in all likelihood, a starter.

Agree....But I also feel that way about the DT's slotted to go 15-40.

Hell, Jurrell Casey would probably be an upgrade and probably won't go until the 3rd.

DrFate
03-02-2011, 03:47 PM
No to Fairley - one year wonder, character issues, not as big as advertised

just say no

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 03:55 PM
That's the conventional wisdom of why SD corners shouldn't be drafted so high..."But you can throw to the other side of the field!"

Well, what if Champ IS the other side of the field?

Again....Almost every argument against Peterson as Denver's first round pick seems to assume that the front seven won't otherwise be addressed?

Do you guys seriously think that Denver would draft Peterson and then follow him up with a TE, OL-man and an RB?

you could put Champ and Peterson on the field together and that defense will still give up huge yards through the air.

if you can't throw on the corners, dink and dunk on the weak LB corps. TEs will take our LBs to school, slot receivers against Nickle corners, RBs catching passes out of the backfield. gash our front 7 with the running game

2 elite corners doesn't matter, smart coaches can play a short game and ignore both of them.

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 03:57 PM
That's the conventional wisdom of why SD corners shouldn't be drafted so high..."But you can throw to the other side of the field!"

Well, what if Champ IS the other side of the field?

Again....Almost every argument against Peterson as Denver's first round pick seems to assume that the front seven won't otherwise be addressed?

Do you guys seriously think that Denver would draft Peterson and then follow him up with a TE, OL-man and an RB?

the 2nd round DL talent is composed of what we have now, bodies that play the spot, nothing with an abundance of talent. why get a rotational guy in the 2nd and later, when we can get someone special that can start and potentially be a cog in the DL for the next decade

NFLBRONCO
03-02-2011, 04:28 PM
That's the conventional wisdom of why SD corners shouldn't be drafted so high..."But you can throw to the other side of the field!"

Well, what if Champ IS the other side of the field?

Again....Almost every argument against Peterson as Denver's first round pick seems to assume that the front seven won't otherwise be addressed?

Do you guys seriously think that Denver would draft Peterson and then follow him up with a TE, OL-man and an RB?

If Shanny or McD's were here YES :rofl:

HAT
03-02-2011, 04:31 PM
Let's try this another way......

Pretend it's March 2010 and Denver is coming off of a year where the defense was okay against the run and getting to the QB. The secondary was abysmal and was dead last in pass YPG and gave up a ton of long balls.

Furthermore, we have one perennial all pro at DT who just re-signed (Champ) and a former all pro at DE (Dawkins) who can still shine when healthy but is slowing down and breaking down. The secondary however, completely sucked and we lost our best CB (Doom) for the entire year to injury. The good news though is that his return will automatically make the secondary better but he can't do it all alone. The rest of the secondary consists of stop gap cast offs and a sophomore CB (Ayers) who may or may not blossom.

Now, Denver has the #2 pick and the Rams have already come to terms with Bradford.

Addressing the secondary is the biggest need. Specifically, safety, because the CB's may be okay with the returning pro-bowler and the soon to be 3rd year starter. And remember, we already have a borderline GOAT at DT.

"Clearly....Eric Berry MUST be the pick right? He's the consensus best safety, a universal top 5 pick on every mock and far and away Denver's biggest NEED!"

"Whoa...Wait a second, what about this Suh kid?"

"Screw that...We already have a perennial pro bowler at DT. We have to take Berry because we've ignored the safety position forever!"

"But Suh is a once in a decade talent. Wouldn't it be amazing to take him at #2 and then try to get a Taylor Mays or Nate Allen in the 2nd.....Or they can try and move back into the first for Earl Thomas."

"No...The drop off from Berry to those 2nd rounders is HUGE! And besides teams will just run to the opposite side of Suh or double team him."

"Yeah, good luck with that when we have our other PB DT...It would be amazing to pair them together and have the vet mentor Suh. Plus, he's a stud on ST....He'll probably change a game or two by blocking kicks"

"Forget it...this draft will be epic FAIL if we don't take the safety! We already have a pro bowl DT and we've wasted too many resources there in the last few drafts ('Phonz, Cox, Squid)"

"You guys don't understand though...This Suh kid is a freak"

"Don't care, don't need him...We NEED a safety"

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 04:35 PM
Let's try this another way......

Pretend it's March 2010 and Denver is coming off of a year where the defense was okay against the run and getting to the QB. The secondary was abysmal and was dead last in pass YPG and gave up a ton of long balls.

Furthermore, we have one perennial all pro at DT who just re-signed (Champ) and a former all pro at DE (Dawkins) who can still shine when healthy but is slowing down and breaking down. The secondary however, completely sucked and we lost our best CB (Doom) for the entire year to injury. The good news though is that his return will automatically make the secondary better but he can't do it all alone. The rest of the secondary consists of stop gap cast offs and a sophomore CB (Ayers) who may or may not blossom.

Now, Denver has the #2 pick and the Rams have already come to terms with Bradford.

Addressing the secondary is the biggest need. Specifically, safety, because the CB's may be okay with the returning pro-bowler and the soon to be 3rd year starter. And remember, we already have a borderline GOAT at DT.

"Clearly....Eric Berry MUST be the pick right? He's the consensus best safety, a universal top 5 pick on every mock and far and away Denver's biggest NEED!"

"Whoa...Wait a second, what about this Suh kid?"

"Screw that...We already have a perennial pro bowler at DT. We have to take Berry because we've ignored the safety position forever!"

"But Suh is a once in a decade talent. Wouldn't it be amazing to take him at #2 and then try to get a Taylor Mays or Nate Allen in the 2nd.....Or they can try and move back into the first for Earl Thomas."

"No...The drop off from Berry to those 2nd rounders is HUGE! And besides teams will just run to the opposite side of Suh or double team him."

"Yeah, good luck with that when we have our other PB DT...It would be amazing to pair them together and have the vet mentor Suh. Plus, he's a stud on ST....He'll probably change a game or two by blocking kicks"

"Forget it...this draft will be epic FAIL if we don't take the safety! We already have a pro bowl DT and we've wasted too many resources there in the last few drafts ('Phonz, Cox, Squid)"

"You guys don't understand though...This Suh kid is a freak"

"Don't care, don't need him...We NEED a safety"

Julio Jones is a freak too, we don't need a receiver but he is going to be a beast should we take him?

your rationalizing does nothing to make Peterson the better pick

HAT
03-02-2011, 04:39 PM
your rationalizing does nothing to make Peterson the better pick

Other than point out that yours would have passed on BPA (Suh) for need (Berry) last year if the situation were reversed.

razorwire77
03-02-2011, 04:41 PM
I'll lose it if we draft Von Miller at 2.

The order from my favorite to least favorite goes Dareus, Peterson, Fairley, Bowers, Miller.

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 05:18 PM
Other than point out that yours would have passed on BPA (Suh) for need (Berry) last year if the situation were reversed.

no it doesn't because i would never want to use a top 5 pick on any player in the secondary.

build a team like the Giants did. pass rusher after pass rusher after pass rusher in the draft. you build the trenches well enough and you can trot out nameless faceless players in the secondary and they will be fine.

you need to get over the fact that Corner isn't a big enough impact position to warrant number 2 overall.

add in that he won't do anything on ST he won't do returns, because no chance in hell will anyone with his cap number or draft position be risked doing anything like that. all the things that raise a Corners value are things he won't be allowed to do.

HAT
03-02-2011, 05:27 PM
you need to get over the fact that Corner isn't a big enough impact position to warrant number 2 overall.



Not really.

I don't care where they draft from 2-7ish and I don't care which of the 'defensive five' they take. The D needs help front to back and inside to out....It's pointless to get upset if they don't get the specific guy you want.

If they draft O however, that's another story altogether. :thumbs:

BroncoMan4ever
03-02-2011, 05:34 PM
Not really.

I don't care where they draft from 2-7ish and I don't care which of the 'defensive five' they take. The D needs help front to back and inside to out....It's pointless to get upset if they don't get the specific guy you want.

If they draft O however, that's another story altogether. :thumbs:

i'm not getting upset. next to offense, CB is the position that can wait in the draft longest

WolfpackGuy
03-02-2011, 05:42 PM
I least want Peterson.

If not traded, the #2 pick needs to be on a defensive lineman.

epicSocialism4tw
03-02-2011, 06:39 PM
Peterson, but not because I dont think he'll be successful.

The Broncos finally have a chance to cure what has ailed this defense for over a decade. They can add the best defensive lineman in the draft to the roster.

To fail given this opportunity would be awful.

jhns
03-02-2011, 07:40 PM
"But Suh is a once in a decade talent. Wouldn't it be amazing to take him at #2 and then try to get a Taylor Mays or Nate Allen in the 2nd.....Or they can try and move back into the first for Earl Thomas."


I just wish we could have been bad last season instead of this one. I don't care if we take Peterson, I just want defense.

Perry1977
03-03-2011, 12:29 AM
Miller is the best passrusher on the list. However, if you watch his highlights, he is always standing up. He's perfect for a 3-4, but now that we have committed to a 4-3 we need to find somebody who can straight get with it with a hand in the dirt. That player is not on this list: Robert Quinn. He is hands down the best passrushing 4-3 DE in the draft. (Pun intended, of course). :~ohyah!:\


That being said, Peterson would be the biggest mistake to draft. A corner isn't going to help this defense.