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footstepsfrom#27
02-23-2011, 06:18 PM
This is ultra cool stuff...near zero emissions, the holy grail. If they can get the production costs down to where it's affordable...

http://shopping.yahoo.com/articles/yshoppingarticles/543/wind-powered-car-sets-records-in-a-3100-mile-road-test/

Wind-powered car sets records in a 3,100-mile road test

By Ryan Fleming, DigitalTrends.com

Two German inventors have created an electric vehicle that recharges the battery through a wind turbine carried in the car. To test the vehicle, the duo recently completed a 3,100-mile trek across Australia.

It is almost like German adventurers Dirk Gion and Stefan Simmerer saw the latest models of electric cars, and decided to see if they could go out and make the manufacturers feel bad. In a move that will have green aficionados cheering and gearheads gently weeping at the state of the world, a new electric car powered by a wind turbine has just been unleashed into the Australian wilds.

The vehicle, known as the Wind Explorer, uses an electric battery similar to those found in most of the current generation of electric cars like the Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf, but rather than needing to plug in every night, the Wind Explorer comes standard with a 20-foot retractable bamboo mast that holds a wind turbine to charge the battery. The Wind Runner can also be powered—or perhaps more accurately “dragged”—by a kite, assuming of course that there is ample wind. The result is a lightweight electric car that weighs under 500 pounds and has a top speed of 55 miles an hour, all with close to zero emissions.

To test their new eco-mobile, the Germans travelled to Australia, where they planned to drive (and sail) the Wind Explorer from the southwestern Australian town of Albany, head east on the southern coast, and arrive in Sydney on the southeastern tip of the continent to the cheers of a handful, and the bewildered stares of most. The entire trip took 18 days, covered 3,100 miles and set a handful of world records, including being the first wind-powered vehicle to cross a continent, the longest overall distance covered for a wind-powered vehicle on land, and the longest distance covered in 36 hours by a wind-powered vehicle, as well as several others in the same vein. The trip across Australia also marks the first nearly emission-free trip across a continent in a vehicle. Even horses, which some might consider green in a sense, emit more pollution from the methane in their waste than the Wind Explorer.

Dirk Gion and Stefan Simmerer

The Wind Explorer uses an 8kWh lithium-ion battery, similar to what most electric cars are packing; the difference is in the means of charging the battery. Although it has a plug to charge the battery from the power grid, the real focus of the Wind Explorer is the wind turbine. When the car is in need of a charge, the drivers hoist a 20-foot collapsible mast, housed in a special compartment that runs between the driver and passenger seat, and the turbine begins to charge the battery. Once fully charged, the vehicle averaged close to 250 miles before needing to be recharged.

The exact length of time it took to recharge the battery using a wind turbine varies with conditions, but from the grid, it typically recharges at a rate of 20-percent per hour at maximum input.

footstepsfrom#27
02-23-2011, 06:21 PM
http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sh/windexplorer.jpg

I think I want one. ;D

Archer81
02-23-2011, 06:29 PM
Awesome...unless you live where constant wind is an exception. People in Pueblo West should look into it though.


:Broncos:

DarkHorse30
02-23-2011, 06:57 PM
meh. Drill, baby drill

footstepsfrom#27
02-23-2011, 07:00 PM
Awesome...unless you live where constant wind is an exception. People in Pueblo West should look into it though.


:Broncos:
It's powered by a battery like a regular electric car and recharges by this wind turbine that it tows. I don't think it has anything to do with where you live. The car charges at a rate of 20% of the charge per hour that the car is operating and runs 250 miles on one charge. If you don't need to plug in to re-charge that's a big part of the problem solved.

That One Guy
02-23-2011, 07:35 PM
It's powered by a battery like a regular electric car and recharges by this wind turbine that it tows. I don't think it has anything to do with where you live. The car charges at a rate of 20% of the charge per hour that the car is operating and runs 250 miles on one charge. If you don't need to plug in to re-charge that's a big part of the problem solved.

Pretty sure there's a law of physics violation if you're saying that their movement generates enough wind to power the vehicle and charge it back up. Maybe I misunderstood you though.

Archer81
02-23-2011, 07:36 PM
Pretty sure there's a law of physics violation if you're saying that their movement generates enough wind to power the vehicle and charge it back up. Maybe I misunderstood you though.


I'm picturing a prius hauling a dutch windmill...


:Broncos:

footstepsfrom#27
02-23-2011, 07:56 PM
Pretty sure there's a law of physics violation if you're saying that their movement generates enough wind to power the vehicle and charge it back up. Maybe I misunderstood you though.
Just read the article.

That One Guy
02-23-2011, 08:09 PM
Just read the article.

Well my internet just **** on me and I lost my response but I'm not retyping it all just so I can call you a prick in the end.

To sum it up though, if it were so simple that you could just charge up a car, stick a windmill on top of it, and it'd generate more power driving in circles than it consumed then we'd have our renewable energy source figured out instantly. Somewhere there has to be a multiplier and that is the 20 foot mast that is able to reach to areas where the wind power is stronger.

I'll call you a prick now for good measure though. Prick.

Dedhed
02-23-2011, 08:12 PM
Pretty sure there's a law of physics violation if you're saying that their movement generates enough wind to power the vehicle and charge it back up. Maybe I misunderstood you though.

I think the turbine is erected when the car is parked, and the batteries are recharged then. I don't think you drive around with a 20 foot pole over the car.

That One Guy
02-23-2011, 08:15 PM
I think the turbine is erected when the car is parked, and the batteries are recharged then. I don't think you drive around with a 20 foot pole over the car.

Ahh.. for some reason I read it as they were actually doing it that way. Maybe because it also said it could be pulled by a kite. I figured that was why they had to do it in Australia.

Either way though, the car is powered off wind energy and his assertion that the location and, thus, the amount of wind were insignificant just doesn't work.

footstepsfrom#27
02-23-2011, 08:27 PM
Well my internet just **** on me and I lost my response but I'm not retyping it all just so I can call you a prick in the end.

To sum it up though, if it were so simple that you could just charge up a car, stick a windmill on top of it, and it'd generate more power driving in circles than it consumed then we'd have our renewable energy source figured out instantly. Somewhere there has to be a multiplier and that is the 20 foot mast that is able to reach to areas where the wind power is stronger.

I'll call you a prick now for good measure though. Prick.
I'm a prick for asking you to read the story? I see...I guess reading must really be a chore for you huh?

That One Guy
02-23-2011, 08:33 PM
I'm a prick for asking you to read the story? I see...I guess reading must really be a chore for you huh?

No, you're a prick because I read the story. I was telling you I didn't think you were grasping something correctly and you act like I must've not read the story to even consider doubting you.

footstepsfrom#27
02-23-2011, 08:33 PM
Ahh.. for some reason I read it as they were actually doing it that way. Maybe because it also said it could be pulled by a kite. I figured that was why they had to do it in Australia.

Either way though, the car is powered off wind energy and his assertion that the location and, thus, the amount of wind were insignificant just doesn't work.
This took 8 seconds for me to find on Google.

http://inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2011/02/WindExplorer5-537x357.jpg

See...wasn't that easy? You're questions are answered and now you don't have to make an ass of yourself anymore.

footstepsfrom#27
02-23-2011, 08:35 PM
No, you're a prick because I read the story. I was telling you I didn't think you were grasping something correctly and you act like I must've not read the story to even consider doubting you.
Sorry...next time I'll just assume you can't read very well. The story says point blank how it works.

That One Guy
02-23-2011, 08:36 PM
It's powered by a battery like a regular electric car and recharges by this wind turbine that it tows. I don't think it has anything to do with where you live. The car charges at a rate of 20% of the charge per hour that the car is operating and runs 250 miles on one charge. If you don't need to plug in to re-charge that's a big part of the problem solved.

You put this in response to SirH saying you needed somewhere with constant wind.

Then you post a picture of the car being towed by the kite. This is what the OP said about that very same kite.

The Wind Runner can also be powered—or perhaps more accurately “dragged”—by a kite, assuming of course that there is ample wind.

Just so you don't have to keep making an ass of yourself. Again, why be a prick?

footstepsfrom#27
02-23-2011, 08:40 PM
You put this in response to SirH saying you needed somewhere with constant wind.

Then you post a picture of the car being towed by the kite. This is what the OP said about that very same kite.

Just so you don't have to keep making an ass of yourself. Again, why be a prick?
I posted a short article that included how the thing works. You and others then wander around like befuddled Alzheimers patients speculating about how it works. I say, read the article. You say, "Don't be a prick".

Conclusion: you're the prick.

That One Guy
02-23-2011, 08:46 PM
I posted a short article that included how the thing works. You and others then wander around like befuddled Alzheimers patients speculating about how it works. I say, read the article. You say, "Don't be a prick".

Conclusion: you're the prick.

Point was that it's still based on wind and a complete lack of wind would leave you sitting on the side of the road. That's what SirH insinuated, what I agreed with, and what you somehow can't grasp. Now, obviously the 20 foot mast would mitigate that situation but it is not generating power simply by towing anything around as you possibly unintentionally stated.

footstepsfrom#27
02-23-2011, 09:14 PM
Point was that it's still based on wind and a complete lack of wind would leave you sitting on the side of the road. That's what SirH insinuated, what I agreed with, and what you somehow can't grasp. Now, obviously the 20 foot mast would mitigate that situation but it is not generating power simply by towing anything around as you possibly unintentionally stated.
Obviously you don't have a lack of wind if you're towing a bigass kite behind you, and the story directly states that it does generate it's power to recharge the battery as it's moving. It says so clearly, and you can watch the Youtube video as well if you still have questions.

I like how some people on this board can't wait to jump to some kind of insulting comment like "you can't grasp this" or other rude remarks, as if it's really important to them to be sure and make someone with an alternate opinion look stupid. This is the kind of idiotic conversation I don't have time for. If you read the story and still don't get how it works, I can't help you. I swear 90% of the time people post things in here that make it clear they never read the original post or linked to the story provided. I don't have time for it.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/s6bU43RCIVw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Dedhed
02-23-2011, 09:56 PM
Obviously you don't have a lack of wind if you're towing a bigass kite behind you, and the story directly states that it does generate it's power to recharge the battery as it's moving. It says so clearly, and you can watch the Youtube video as well if you still have questions.

I like how some people on this board can't wait to jump to some kind of insulting comment like "you can't grasp this" or other rude remarks, as if it's really important to them to be sure and make someone with an alternate opinion look stupid. This is the kind of idiotic conversation I don't have time for. If you read the story and still don't get how it works, I can't help you. I swear 90% of the time people post things in here that make it clear they never read the original post or linked to the story provided. I don't have time for it.Dude. You TOTALLY HAVE FAILED to grasp what the article states. TOTALLY FAILED.

Archer81
02-23-2011, 10:07 PM
I posted a short article that included how the thing works. You and others then wander around like befuddled Alzheimers patients speculating about how it works. I say, read the article. You say, "Don't be a prick".

Conclusion: you're the prick.


I see where this is going.

No. You're the prick.


:Broncos:

Boomhauer
02-23-2011, 10:14 PM
I love me some google........
http://www.bookpalace.com/acatalog/LaceyWindCarLL.jpg
http://www.interpatagonia.com/paseos/carrovelismo/01.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_-HSykkBjPbY/SfiLvLSeNMI/AAAAAAAAA0w/evLdSksU1hI/s400/wind_car.jpg

broncocalijohn
02-23-2011, 11:55 PM
So you have to hold a big ass kite sometimes to generate power? Cant wait to see another dude coming down the other way and their kites get tangled. BTW, so if you buy this thing, do you get the wing man/benjamin franklin as part of the package or is that considered a luxury and an add-on?

MagicHef
02-24-2011, 02:03 AM
-Kites and turbines are different things.

-The turbine is not deployed when the car is moving. Doing so would only lose more energy than was gained, per the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

-The kite is used to pull the car only by the force of the wind, it is not connected to the electric system at all.

-The 20% charge per hour is only when the car is plugged in, that's what "the grid" refers to.

-I know, I'm a prick.

txtebow
02-24-2011, 06:11 AM
This took 8 seconds for me to find on Google.

http://inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2011/02/WindExplorer5-537x357.jpg

See...wasn't that easy? You're questions are answered and now you don't have to make an ass of yourself anymore.

The picture confirms that this version is completely impractical and a waste of a print article and the keystrokes required to write it. The mane thanks you.

Dedhed
02-24-2011, 06:42 AM
-Kites and turbines are different things.

-The turbine is not deployed when the car is moving. Doing so would only lose more energy than was gained, per the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

-The kite is used to pull the car only by the force of the wind, it is not connected to the electric system at all.

-The 20% charge per hour is only when the car is plugged in, that's what "the grid" refers to.


Yeah, I think it's pretty clear that footsteps is under the impression that the kite is the turbine. Uhh...not so much.

The kite has nothing to do with the charging of the battery. It's simply an alternative way of moving the car.

That One Guy
02-24-2011, 07:49 AM
So you have to hold a big ass kite sometimes to generate power? Cant wait to see another dude coming down the other way and their kites get tangled. BTW, so if you buy this thing, do you get the wing man/benjamin franklin as part of the package or is that considered a luxury and an add-on?

LOL

For some reason I find this mental image absolutely hillarious.

Glad to see I wasn't alone in thinking someone hadn't understood the article correctly.

Kaylore
02-24-2011, 07:52 AM
Yeah the tangling kites image was actually the first thing I thought of. And having to plug your car into a big windmill is really stupid. I guess if you house on the Utah salt flats it's a sound investment. :kubiak:

That One Guy
02-24-2011, 07:59 AM
Yeah the tangling kites image was actually the first thing I thought of. And having to plug your car into a big windmill is really stupid. I guess if you house on the Utah salt flats it's a sound investment. :kubiak:

Well where I'm getting caught is I thought it was goofy to be driving around with a huge mast sticking out of your car but thought the car was as much conceptual and showing that it could be done than truly practical. If the mast can't be used during driving and you'd be stopped anyways, why not plug it into the grid and just move on? If need be, affix the turbine to your house for constant power, use the grid power to power the car, and you'd make it out ahead overall. I think they should focus on making a practical car for city driving and leave these silly gadgets to once the car itself has been figured out.

Beantown Bronco
02-24-2011, 08:12 AM
I only drive 3 miles to and from my commuter rail station each day and could really use some alternative mode of transport like this that is electric but doesn't require grid electricity (charging up all of the current plug-in electric vehicles out there would cost me more than filling up with gas, given today's prices). The weather here doesn't really make biking (or motorcycling) to and from the station year round very do-able, and driving a car is really a waste of gas, given that most cars get their worst mileage with such short trips. Hopefully, they can advance wind technology to the point that it's practical in the near future.

Jetmeck
02-24-2011, 08:49 AM
Yeah the tangling kites image was actually the first thing I thought of. And having to plug your car into a big windmill is really stupid. I guess if you house on the Utah salt flats it's a sound investment. :kubiak:

Stupid ? Maybe but we need stupid people like this trying new things till one of these so called STUPID people has that Eureka moment and we can all give the middle east, big oil companies and my favorite....stock market speculators who are really ****ing us right now the big high hard one....F... you assholes !!!

MagicHef
02-24-2011, 02:59 PM
I only drive 3 miles to and from my commuter rail station each day and could really use some alternative mode of transport like this that is electric but doesn't require grid electricity (charging up all of the current plug-in electric vehicles out there would cost me more than filling up with gas, given today's prices). The weather here doesn't really make biking (or motorcycling) to and from the station year round very do-able, and driving a car is really a waste of gas, given that most cars get their worst mileage with such short trips. Hopefully, they can advance wind technology to the point that it's practical in the near future.

I don't know the specifics of your situation, but I would find it extremely surprising if it cost more to charge an electric car than it did to fill a gasoline car up. Are you including the cost of buying the car?

Chris
02-24-2011, 03:03 PM
How dare you make me read about cool stuff

For shame.

Chris
02-24-2011, 03:04 PM
Yeah the tangling kites image was actually the first thing I thought of. And having to plug your car into a big windmill is really stupid. I guess if you house on the Utah salt flats it's a sound investment. :kubiak:

Plus anytime a hot girl rocks by I will deliberately tangle my kite with hers and stunt kite her boyfriend into the abyss.

That One Guy
02-24-2011, 03:17 PM
Stupid ? Maybe but we need stupid people like this trying new things till one of these so called STUPID people has that Eureka moment and we can all give the middle east, big oil companies and my favorite....stock market speculators who are really ****ing us right now the big high hard one....F... you a-holes !!!

While it is cool that they're trying new things, the comments by others have pointed out the uselessness of this particular concept. If the turbine were a product of a more efficient machine or something, yeah that technology could convert over.

The current concept for powering it is about as practical as lasso'ing a pterodactyl and having it tow you around in the grand scheme of things. Innovation and experimentation are awesome but why even power the thing with a freaking kite? What good could it possibly contribute to say, "look at this completely impractical means by which we power this vehicle!"?

Bronco Yoda
02-24-2011, 03:29 PM
There's a stupid Polish joke somewhere in all of this.

MagicHef
02-24-2011, 03:29 PM
While it is cool that they're trying new things, the comments by others have pointed out the uselessness of this particular concept. If the turbine were a product of a more efficient machine or something, yeah that technology could convert over.

The current concept for powering it is about as practical as lasso'ing a pterodactyl and having it tow you around in the grand scheme of things. Innovation and experimentation are awesome but why even power the thing with a freaking kite? What good could it possibly contribute to say, "look at this completely impractical means by which we power this vehicle!"?

I agree. Also, this trip took 18 days. People have ridden bicycles across Australia in less than 12 days.

bronclvr
02-24-2011, 03:35 PM
There's a stupid Polish joke somewhere in all of this.

Joke? did I hear Joke? Here you go-

She was standing in the kitchen, preparing our usual Soft-boiled eggs and toast for breakfast, wearing only the 'T' shirt that she normally slept in.

As I walked in, almost awake, she turned to me and said softly, You’ve got to make love to me this very moment!"

My eyes lit up and I thought, "I am either still dreaming or this is going to be my lucky day!"

Not wanting to lose the moment, I embraced her and then gave it my all; right there on the kitchen table.

Afterwards she said, "Thanks," and returned to the stove, her T-shirt still around her neck.

Happy, but a little puzzled, I asked,
"What was that all about?"

She explained, "The egg timer's broken."

cutthemdown
02-24-2011, 04:18 PM
It's a cool adventure. Maybe someday they can make it practical for something. People will never accept needing to wait many hours to drive again. Its not practical in a busy world where we go go go go all the time.

Houshyamama
02-24-2011, 04:26 PM
This took 8 seconds for me to find on Google.

http://inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2011/02/WindExplorer5-537x357.jpg

See...wasn't that easy? You're questions are answered and now you don't have to make an ass of yourself anymore.

That's not a wind powered turbine, that's a sail... something we've had for thousands of years. The car is charged by the turbine when it is parked, thus recharging the batteries so it can drive again. The turbine is not operational when the car is driving, that would increase drag and make the turbine recharger useless. This is not a perpetual motion machine.

http://www.punkasspunk.com/videolog/20050224/South_Park_%5BThe_Entity%5D_(2001)_5.jpg

Chris
02-24-2011, 04:27 PM
Wind power out the back

http://maxcdn.fooyoh.com/files/attach/images/3004/096/153/005/fat_germans.jpg

chadta
02-24-2011, 04:35 PM
so how do you get under overpasses ?

Chris
02-24-2011, 04:51 PM
so how do you get under overpasses ?

you surf over them

http://www.jaunted.com/files/6193/KiteSurfNaked.jpg

broncolife
02-24-2011, 04:57 PM
They should build a fart powered car

Dedhed
02-24-2011, 08:56 PM
My favorite part about this thread is that Footsteps has vanished after starting it, lambasting people for not reading the article, and then utterly misinterpreting the article and realizing he looks like a total douche for telling people they're douches for not getting the article.

That is classic OM stuff!

footstepsfrom#27
02-24-2011, 09:23 PM
This thread is a good example of why text driven discussion forums usually deteriorate into mindless arguments over nothing. First off, I didnt' say the sail was the turbine...in fact I posted both a pix and a Youtube video of this damn thing from the start which makes it obvious how it works and it obviously doesn't show a flying windmill. Nobody who watches the video would think it did.

The point I was trying to make, albeit not well I suppose, was that this thing carries a portable turbine so you can crank the battery without plugging into the power grid...I see now I also used the word "tow" so I probably had the kite on the brain and yeah that's probably a poor choice of words but like I said in the beginning, the original story says the turbine is carried on board the car between the two seats...carried, towed, transported...whatever. The point is it carries it's own power generation system. I don't think it actually states whether it can be used while the vehicle is moving but I drew that conclusion by virtue of the fact that it doesn't have to use the turbine's energy while it's moving. Since the kite is capable of moving the car by wind power alone, it seems apparent that the portable turbine could theoretically be used to charge the battery at the same time, assuming it doesn't flip the thing over. That seems like a very problematic issue, a 20 foot pop up turbine rising from a lightweight vehicle might easily cause it to capsize. But yeah, it's probably only used when the car's motionless...I don't know or care because that really has nothing to do with the point.

The point to this story (and what's alot more significant than how I wound up wording a single post) is the fact that two dudes managed to drive what looks like a glorified go-cart 3100 miles across freaking Australia without using a drop of gas. I said this has nothing to do with where you live because obviously nowhere in this entire story is there the slightest indication that the two guys who invented this thing had any intention of marketing this as some kind of practical car you can drive around town in, yet most of the posts are arguing the impracticality of this. No kidding really? A car pulled by a huge kite isn't gonne make it on the freeway or let you take the kids to soccer practice? Duh...who said it would? It's not about that. Cripes even the headline tells the story; it's about two adventurous sorts who trekked across Australia in this contraption. I'm guessing they chose Australia since it's probably the only place they could have driven that distance without encountering insurmountable obstacles like cities and traffic, power lines, etc..

The story has nothing to do with a marketable vehicle, and it's a complete head scratcher that anyone thought so. It's a human interest thing, nothing more, and the story as well as the video make that clear. But instead this got turned upside down and made into "footsteps is a prick" and "footsteps thinks it's powered by a flying windmill". Whatever...I just decided to point out that the story itself has the answers so why not read it? Or in this case, why not watch the video? I can't imagine anyone watching the video of this thing and coming away with the impression that this is meant to go in your garage, yet people came away thinking exactly that. Why...I have no idea beyond what I've said before....people don't freaking read **** before they post.

footstepsfrom#27
02-24-2011, 09:23 PM
My favorite part about this thread is that Footsteps has vanished after starting it, lambasting people for not reading the article, and then utterly misinterpreting the article and realizing he looks like a total douche for telling people they're douches for not getting the article.

That is classic OM stuff!
Yeah, I'm obligated to post when you want me to.

Archer81
02-24-2011, 09:28 PM
Why...I have no idea beyond what I've said before....people don't freaking read **** before they post.


Balls.



:Broncos:

OABB
02-24-2011, 09:35 PM
This thread is a good example of why text driven discussion forums usually deteriorate into mindless arguments over nothing. First off, I didnt' say the sail was the turbine...in fact I posted both a pix and a Youtube video of this damn thing from the start which makes it obvious how it works and it obviously doesn't show a flying windmill. Nobody who watches the video would think it did.

The point I was trying to make, albeit not well I suppose, was that this thing carries a portable turbine so you can crank the battery without plugging into the power grid...I see now I also used the word "tow" so I probably had the kite on the brain and yeah that's probably a poor choice of words but like I said in the beginning, the original story says the turbine is carried on board the car between the two seats...carried, towed, transported...whatever. The point is it carries it's own power generation system. I don't think it actually states whether it can be used while the vehicle is moving but I drew that conclusion by virtue of the fact that it doesn't have to use the turbine's energy while it's moving. Since the kite is capable of moving the car by wind power alone, it seems apparent that the portable turbine could theoretically be used to charge the battery at the same time, assuming it doesn't flip the thing over. That seems like a very problematic issue, a 20 foot pop up turbine rising from a lightweight vehicle might easily cause it to capsize. But yeah, it's probably only used when the car's motionless...I don't know or care because that really has nothing to do with the point.

The point to this story (and what's alot more significant than how I wound up wording a single post) is the fact that two dudes managed to drive what looks like a glorified go-cart 3100 miles across freaking Australia without using a drop of gas. I said this has nothing to do with where you live because obviously nowhere in this entire story is there the slightest indication that the two guys who invented this thing had any intention of marketing this as some kind of practical car you can drive around town in, yet most of the posts are arguing the impracticality of this. No kidding really? A car pulled by a huge kite isn't gonne make it on the freeway or let you take the kids to soccer practice? Duh...who said it would? It's not about that. Cripes even the headline tells the story; it's about two adventurous sorts who trekked across Australia in this contraption. I'm guessing they chose Australia since it's probably the only place they could have driven that distance without encountering insurmountable obstacles like cities and traffic, power lines, etc..

The story has nothing to do with a marketable vehicle, and it's a complete head scratcher that anyone thought so. It's a human interest thing, nothing more, and the story as well as the video make that clear. But instead this got turned upside down and made into "footsteps is a prick" and "footsteps thinks it's powered by a flying windmill". Whatever...I just decided to point out that the story itself has the answers so why not read it? Or in this case, why not watch the video? I can't imagine anyone watching the video of this thing and coming away with the impression that this is meant to go in your garage, yet people came away thinking exactly that. Why...I have no idea beyond what I've said before....people don't freaking read **** before they post.

Fart.

Houshyamama
02-25-2011, 12:13 AM
This thread is a good example of why text driven discussion forums usually deteriorate into mindless arguments over nothing. First off, I didnt' say the sail was the turbine...in fact I posted both a pix and a Youtube video of this damn thing from the start which makes it obvious how it works and it obviously doesn't show a flying windmill. Nobody who watches the video would think it did.

The point I was trying to make, albeit not well I suppose, was that this thing carries a portable turbine so you can crank the battery without plugging into the power grid...I see now I also used the word "tow" so I probably had the kite on the brain and yeah that's probably a poor choice of words but like I said in the beginning, the original story says the turbine is carried on board the car between the two seats...carried, towed, transported...whatever. The point is it carries it's own power generation system. I don't think it actually states whether it can be used while the vehicle is moving but I drew that conclusion by virtue of the fact that it doesn't have to use the turbine's energy while it's moving. Since the kite is capable of moving the car by wind power alone, it seems apparent that the portable turbine could theoretically be used to charge the battery at the same time, assuming it doesn't flip the thing over. That seems like a very problematic issue, a 20 foot pop up turbine rising from a lightweight vehicle might easily cause it to capsize. But yeah, it's probably only used when the car's motionless...I don't know or care because that really has nothing to do with the point.

The point to this story (and what's alot more significant than how I wound up wording a single post) is the fact that two dudes managed to drive what looks like a glorified go-cart 3100 miles across freaking Australia without using a drop of gas. I said this has nothing to do with where you live because obviously nowhere in this entire story is there the slightest indication that the two guys who invented this thing had any intention of marketing this as some kind of practical car you can drive around town in, yet most of the posts are arguing the impracticality of this. No kidding really? A car pulled by a huge kite isn't gonne make it on the freeway or let you take the kids to soccer practice? Duh...who said it would? It's not about that. Cripes even the headline tells the story; it's about two adventurous sorts who trekked across Australia in this contraption. I'm guessing they chose Australia since it's probably the only place they could have driven that distance without encountering insurmountable obstacles like cities and traffic, power lines, etc..

The story has nothing to do with a marketable vehicle, and it's a complete head scratcher that anyone thought so. It's a human interest thing, nothing more, and the story as well as the video make that clear. But instead this got turned upside down and made into "footsteps is a prick" and "footsteps thinks it's powered by a flying windmill". Whatever...I just decided to point out that the story itself has the answers so why not read it? Or in this case, why not watch the video? I can't imagine anyone watching the video of this thing and coming away with the impression that this is meant to go in your garage, yet people came away thinking exactly that. Why...I have no idea beyond what I've said before....people don't freaking read **** before they post.

Ok. So... is the windmill, like hanging from the sail? Where does the flux capacitor go?

;D

Beantown Bronco
02-25-2011, 06:46 AM
I don't know the specifics of your situation, but I would find it extremely surprising if it cost more to charge an electric car than it did to fill a gasoline car up. Are you including the cost of buying the car?

Every review I've seen of the current crop of production plug-in cars like the Volt, Leaf and upcoming Prius confirm this. It really doesn't have anything to do with my particular situation and everything to do with the current gas and electric prices. It's been written everywhere I've seen that your electric bill is likely to go up by more than your monthly gasoline bills will go down with these things. Granted, it's at least partially because none of the current and immediate future "electric" cars are truly 100% electric and still require gas at least part of the time. Add that to the fact that these cars are so much more expensive than gasoline cars of comparable size/amenities and it still doesn't even come close to making practical sense right now to go that route.

Kaylore
02-25-2011, 08:20 AM
The point to this story (and what's alot more significant than how I wound up wording a single post) is the fact that two dudes managed to drive what looks like a glorified go-cart 3100 miles across freaking Australia without using a drop of gas. I said this has nothing to do with where you live because obviously nowhere in this entire story is there the slightest indication that the two guys who invented this thing had any intention of marketing this as some kind of practical car you can drive around town in, yet most of the posts are arguing the impracticality of this. No kidding really? A car pulled by a huge kite isn't gonne make it on the freeway or let you take the kids to soccer practice? Duh...who said it would?
Well you did say you wanted one. It's basically a land sail that has a battery and plugs into a windmill.

Balls.
Fart.
LOL Oh man, I do love this place.

That One Guy
02-25-2011, 09:18 AM
Well you did say you wanted one. It's basically a land sail that has a battery and plugs into a windmill.


Oh the innovation. They took the technology that Columbus used to discover America... and put wheels under it!!!11!1!one11!!eleven1!!!!

Kaylore
02-25-2011, 10:08 AM
Oh the innovation. They took the technology that Columbus used to discover America... and put wheels under it!!!11!1!one11!!eleven1!!!!

All our problems are solved. :) Soon the interstates will be filled with kite-cars running side by side producing zero emissions. Speeding tickets won't be a problem because the wind will pull all drivers at the same speed. We just need to convince people to "go where the wind blows", and of course to destroy all bridges first...

Cito Pelon
02-25-2011, 10:21 AM
Is there a Mel Gibson movie coming from this? And, did they run over any Jews?

Kidding aside, it's always cool to see inventions, see creative minds at work.

It's very interesting to see the creativity that comes out of necessity, RE the amount of alternative energy sources people have come up with lately from wind energy, solar, wave, tidal.

It's called progress.

That One Guy
02-25-2011, 10:32 AM
Is there a Mel Gibson movie coming from this? And, did they run over any Jews?

Kidding aside, it's always cool to see inventions, see creative minds at work.

It's very interesting to see the creativity that comes out of necessity, RE the amount of alternative energy sources people have come up with lately from wind energy, solar, wave, tidal.

It's called progress.

People keep taking my inventions but I've had some good ones.

One I just discovered was stolen the other day was a washer/dryer that was the same machine. It washes your clothes and then dries them and you don't have to move them. Built for lazy people. I saw it on one of them home buying shows the other day.

My green energy idea though is a gatrillion water wheels in our gutter runoff thingies. Have you ever heard how fast that crap runs off your roof? Especially considering it would be a great backup when that terrible weather knocks out your lights.

I'm top notch. I expect to be a millionaire someday. I figure I'll post it here so when someone creates it, I can accuse them of browsing the Mane and cash in.

That One Guy
02-25-2011, 10:40 AM
All our problems are solved. :) Soon the interstates will be filled with kite-cars running side by side producing zero emissions. Speeding tickets won't be a problem because the wind will pull all drivers at the same speed. We just need to convince people to "go where the wind blows", and of course to destroy all bridges first...

Christopher Columbus and Bubble Boy - Green Energy leaders since 1492 and 2009, respectively.

Soon though, we'll have that Chef fan in here telling us how he hooked his Camaro up to two kites and passed a horse-drawn buggy on the way to work.

Cito Pelon
02-25-2011, 11:28 AM
People keep taking my inventions but I've had some good ones.

One I just discovered was stolen the other day was a washer/dryer that was the same machine. It washes your clothes and then dries them and you don't have to move them. Built for lazy people. I saw it on one of them home buying shows the other day.

My green energy idea though is a gatrillion water wheels in our gutter runoff thingies. Have you ever heard how fast that crap runs off your roof? Especially considering it would be a great backup when that terrible weather knocks out your lights.

I'm top notch. I expect to be a millionaire someday. I figure I'll post it here so when someone creates it, I can accuse them of browsing the Mane and cash in.

I enjoy creative minds, even if they're maybe a little bit way out there. Many of those "way out there" ideas have come to fruition.

Then you have guys like Kaylore and you that think any new idea is :spit:

That One Guy
02-25-2011, 11:39 AM
I enjoy creative minds, even if they're maybe a little bit way out there. Many of those "way out there" ideas have come to fruition.

Then you have guys like Kaylore and you that think any new idea is :spit:

Well on first thought, because I thought they were using the additional windspeed to overcome the heat lost, I thought they were using the mast when actually driving to suggest that it could be powered sufficiently while operating. Even if impractical, the fact that the car could be powered and produce more energy than was necessary to drive it would be substantial. That was where I thought they had actually discovered something and I was impressed.

Once someone pointed out that in reality it's just an electric car that comes with it's own windmill, there is no novelty to it and no advancement made. Imagine if I made a similar announcement that I made a car that would go 10 miles on a single mL of gas only for you to later find out I started my 10 miles on the very peak of a mountain and rolled downhill the same time. That was basically my transition from reading this to the end. I was impressed when I thought they had accomplished something, rolled my eyes when I realized it was just an electric car attached to a windmill and driven further than anyone else had driven.

Am I missing any actual advancement here?

Cito Pelon
02-25-2011, 12:27 PM
Well on first thought, because I thought they were using the additional windspeed to overcome the heat lost, I thought they were using the mast when actually driving to suggest that it could be powered sufficiently while operating. Even if impractical, the fact that the car could be powered and produce more energy than was necessary to drive it would be substantial. That was where I thought they had actually discovered something and I was impressed.

Once someone pointed out that in reality it's just an electric car that comes with it's own windmill, there is no novelty to it and no advancement made. Imagine if I made a similar announcement that I made a car that would go 10 miles on a single mL of gas only for you to later find out I started my 10 miles on the very peak of a mountain and rolled downhill the same time. That was basically my transition from reading this to the end. I was impressed when I thought they had accomplished something, rolled my eyes when I realized it was just an electric car attached to a windmill and driven further than anyone else had driven.

Am I missing any actual advancement here?

No, I just have a problem with people that sneer at anything that is not the staus quo, as if no new idea is totally worthless.

Take a look at this quote - "I was impressed when I thought they had accomplished something, rolled my eyes when I realized it was just an electric car attached to a windmill and driven further than anyone else had driven."

So some guy put two ideas together and it was "driven further than anyone else had driven". That is nothing to sneer at.

That One Guy
02-25-2011, 12:34 PM
No, I just have a problem with people that sneer at anything that is not the staus quo, as if no new idea is totally worthless.

Take a look at this quote - "I was impressed when I thought they had accomplished something, rolled my eyes when I realized it was just an electric car attached to a windmill and driven further than anyone else had driven."

So some guy put two ideas together and it was "driven further than anyone else had driven". That is nothing to sneer at.

Forest Gump ran really far. I could, theoretically, ride my kid's powerwheel until it wouldn't go any further.

I expected scientific advancement rather than durability. This is about on par with someone setting a Guinness world record for jumping on a pogo stick. There was nothing new developed, he just did it longer than anyone else.

I guess the incorporation of the kite seperates it just a smidgeon but hopefully the people knew that wouldn't be taken seriously when they incorporated it.

MagicHef
02-25-2011, 12:48 PM
Every review I've seen of the current crop of production plug-in cars like the Volt, Leaf and upcoming Prius confirm this. It really doesn't have anything to do with my particular situation and everything to do with the current gas and electric prices. It's been written everywhere I've seen that your electric bill is likely to go up by more than your monthly gasoline bills will go down with these things. Granted, it's at least partially because none of the current and immediate future "electric" cars are truly 100% electric and still require gas at least part of the time. Add that to the fact that these cars are so much more expensive than gasoline cars of comparable size/amenities and it still doesn't even come close to making practical sense right now to go that route.

Can you link the articles saying that electric cars would be more expensive to run? I tried looking, and the first I found was this, which says the opposite: http://truecostblog.com/2009/01/04/electric-vs-gasoline/

Also, the Tesla Volt and Nissan Leaf are both 100% electric.

I absolutely agree about the terrible selection of vehicles currently available as electrics.

Cito Pelon
02-25-2011, 12:52 PM
Forest Gump ran really far. I could, theoretically, ride my kid's powerwheel until it wouldn't go any further.

I expected scientific advancement rather than durability. This is about on par with someone setting a Guinness world record for jumping on a pogo stick. There was nothing new developed, he just did it longer than anyone else.

I guess the incorporation of the kite seperates it just a smidgeon but hopefully the people knew that wouldn't be taken seriously when they incorporated it.

Well, we don't live in Star Trek, dude. We have to deal with incremental improvements.

Beantown Bronco
02-25-2011, 01:10 PM
Can you link the articles saying that electric cars would be more expensive to run? I tried looking, and the first I found was this, which says the opposite: http://truecostblog.com/2009/01/04/electric-vs-gasoline/

One MAJOR flaw in that study: they're using 20 mpg as their figure for the gas powered cars. If they're doing a comparison of the current crop of electric cars vs their gas counterparts, then they need to go with 35+ mpg for the gas powered figure. Why? Because all the current electric cars in their comparison are either subcompact, compact or smallish midsize cars. That size car is NOT getting 20 mpg. Try double that.

MagicHef
02-25-2011, 02:10 PM
One MAJOR flaw in that study: they're using 20 mpg as their figure for the gas powered cars. If they're doing a comparison of the current crop of electric cars vs their gas counterparts, then they need to go with 35+ mpg for the gas powered figure. Why? Because all the current electric cars in their comparison are either subcompact, compact or smallish midsize cars. That size car is NOT getting 20 mpg. Try double that.

That's true. However, even if you halved the cost of the gasoline car, it would still be more expensive than the electric. Also, this is based on gas being $1.50 per gallon. It's more than double that now, so the gasoline car would be even more expensive. I'm not trying to just argue with you, this is just literally the first time I've ever heard anyone say that it would be more expensive to operate an electric car than a gasoline one, so I'm curious.

Houshyamama
02-25-2011, 02:40 PM
This really isn't that incredible. It's not in the spirit of the first human flight across the Atlantic or other achievements of that nature.

It's just an electric engine with a sail and a wind turbine to recharge the batteries. It is in no way practical or applicable to every day life. If is an amazing adventure to be sure, but there is no advancement here.

Beantown Bronco
02-26-2011, 05:12 AM
That's true. However, even if you halved the cost of the gasoline car, it would still be more expensive than the electric. Also, this is based on gas being $1.50 per gallon. It's more than double that now, so the gasoline car would be even more expensive. I'm not trying to just argue with you, this is just literally the first time I've ever heard anyone say that it would be more expensive to operate an electric car than a gasoline one, so I'm curious.

They're also using electric rates that are 1/3 of what the average US homeowner pays, so I figured it was a wash at best.

MagicHef
02-26-2011, 01:07 PM
They're also using electric rates that are 1/3 of what the average US homeowner pays, so I figured it was a wash at best.

The rate used in the article is 10 cents per kWh. I checked on www.eia.doe.gov, their latest data is from 2009, and it says the average rate was 11.5 cents per kWh. I also looked at my latest electricity bill, I was charged 8.5 cents per kWh last month. Where are you getting 30 cents per kWh from?

Beantown Bronco
02-26-2011, 04:32 PM
The rate used in the article is 10 cents per kWh. I checked on www.eia.doe.gov, their latest data is from 2009, and it says the average rate was 11.5 cents per kWh. I also looked at my latest electricity bill, I was charged 8.5 cents per kWh last month. Where are you getting 30 cents per kWh from?

I'm not. What I'm saying is, that is only a fraction of the final electric bill.

Lev Vyvanse
02-26-2011, 06:25 PM
I'm not. What I'm saying is, that is only a fraction of the final electric bill.

The car would only effect kWhs on the bill, no?

MagicHef
02-26-2011, 08:02 PM
I'm not. What I'm saying is, that is only a fraction of the final electric bill.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Could you expand on this?

Beantown Bronco
02-27-2011, 06:46 AM
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Could you expand on this?

The car would only effect kWhs on the bill, no?

Go look at your last electric bill. Depending on where you live, how many kWhs you use, and when you use them, the bill itself will vary, along with the 5-7 other "service fees", "delivery fees" and taxes, etc. that get charged on top of that. In short, the kWhs figure not only effects THAT part of the bill, it also effects how much the 5-7 other parts go up.

MagicHef
02-27-2011, 11:50 AM
Go look at your last electric bill. Depending on where you live, how many kWhs you use, and when you use them, the bill itself will vary, along with the 5-7 other "service fees", "delivery fees" and taxes, etc. that get charged on top of that. In short, the kWhs figure not only effects THAT part of the bill, it also effects how much the 5-7 other parts go up.

I used the absolute total that I was charged for electricity, divided by the number of kWh used. That comes to 8.5 cents per kWh. Unless you think that the amount I am charged for Stormwater Drainage is also affected by my kWh usage, in that case, the absolute total for my bill, including ALL taxes and fees, divided by the number of kWh I used, comes out to 10.3 cents per kWh. I am pretty sure that 8.5 cents per kWh is the more accurate number, though. Did you think that those fees would add up to 30 cents per kWh?

Beantown Bronco
02-27-2011, 01:04 PM
I used the absolute total that I was charged for electricity, divided by the number of kWh used. That comes to 8.5 cents per kWh. Unless you think that the amount I am charged for Stormwater Drainage is also affected by my kWh usage, in that case, the absolute total for my bill, including ALL taxes and fees, divided by the number of kWh I used, comes out to 10.3 cents per kWh. I am pretty sure that 8.5 cents per kWh is the more accurate number, though. Did you think that those fees would add up to 30 cents per kWh?

Interesting. My kWh charge is between 10 and 11 cents and that is only a fraction of my overall electric (not water, sewer, gas or any other utility) bill. National Grid is my provider.

I've never heard of electric billing as you describe it.

MagicHef
02-27-2011, 04:35 PM
Interesting. My kWh charge is between 10 and 11 cents and that is only a fraction of my overall electric (not water, sewer, gas or any other utility) bill. National Grid is my provider.

I've never heard of electric billing as you describe it.

Well, Fort Collins is pretty awesome, so I'm not surprised to hear that our electricity is cheaper and less complicated than other places.

I'd be interested to know what fees of yours are rate based and what are flat. Any chance you could crunch some numbers to let me know? I would be willing to do it for you, but it might be weird to give a complete stranger info like that.

Dedhed
02-27-2011, 06:40 PM
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Could you expand on this?
Your bill is broken down into 3 major parts.

1-Usage-The amount of energy you actually use
2-Delivery-This is how utility companies make their money since they aren't allowed to profit on the usage side.
3-Miscellaneous fees, taxes, etc. Basically another way for the utility to profit.

Dedhed
02-27-2011, 06:56 PM
Interesting. My kWh charge is between 10 and 11 cents and that is only a fraction of my overall electric (not water, sewer, gas or any other utility) bill. National Grid is my provider.

I've never heard of electric billing as you describe it.
There's really no way you wouldn't see savings by going to an electric car. Especially when you factor in oil changes and other maintenance that a gasoline engine requires.

Even forgetting the service charges of a gas engine, the $/miles driven is far higher with gasoline than with electricity.

MagicHef
02-27-2011, 08:43 PM
Your bill is broken down into 3 major parts.

1-Usage-The amount of energy you actually use
2-Delivery-This is how utility companies make their money since they aren't allowed to profit on the usage side.
3-Miscellaneous fees, taxes, etc. Basically another way for the utility to profit.

Not mine. It just has #1.