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View Full Version : Forget about Patrick Peterson. Not. Happening.


BMarsh615
02-22-2011, 08:39 PM
Brian Xanders all but confirmed that Denver will be taking a defensive lineman on 104.3 The Fan today.

Right at the end of the interview he was asked what he was looking to do with the No. 2 pick and here was his answer. "We want a disruptive, playmaker that causes negative plays in the run game and in terms of sacks. That is a good person who loves football and wants to be a Denver Bronco for the next 15 years."

http://www.1043thefan.com/Channels/thedrive/Story.aspx?ID=1368604

Dukes
02-22-2011, 08:43 PM
Smokescreen

razorwire77
02-22-2011, 08:43 PM
http://topnews.net.nz/images/Dominos-Pizza.jpg

+

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/340839666_e886af9ddd.jpg

?

Broncoman13
02-22-2011, 08:43 PM
That means Da'Quan Bowers... no other player fits the Sack Master and Good Person mold in this draft. Well, Bowers and Von Miller that is.

NFLBRONCO
02-22-2011, 08:44 PM
Brian Xanders all but confirmed that Denver will be taking a defensive lineman on 104.3 The Fan today.

Right at the end of the interview he was asked what he was looking to do with the No. 2 pick and here was his answer. "We want a disruptive, playmaker that causes negative plays in the run game and in terms of sacks. That is a good person who loves football and wants to be a Denver Bronco for the next 15 years."

http://www.1043thefan.com/Channels/thedrive/Story.aspx?ID=1368604

Be cool with DL if happens but, kind of disappointed we are staying with NEED drafting vs BPA drafting.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-22-2011, 08:49 PM
Be cool with DL if happens but, kind of disappointed we are staying with NEED drafting vs BPA drafting.

When three of the top four prospects fit his description, I'd hardly call that need based drafting

That One Guy
02-22-2011, 08:50 PM
Be cool with DL if happens but, kind of disappointed we are staying with NEED drafting vs BPA drafting.

That high in the draft, unless you're reaching in a terrible year, you can usually find someone that fits need and can still make it in the BPA argument.

And even if BPA was the answer, you have to curb that at some point. The best DL player might be better than having a really awesome 3rd string DB who someone's draft board ranks just a smidgeon higher.

JDB7821
02-22-2011, 08:54 PM
Be cool with DL if happens but, kind of disappointed we are staying with NEED drafting vs BPA drafting.

Although I don't think you can go wrong with Peterson or Bowers, I think Peterson is enough of a better player to warrant selecting him when he isn't as glaring of a need.

With that said, scheme specific drafting based on needs has worked out pretty well for the Falcons. As long as you have someone who can legitimately scout talent, needs-based drafting works pretty well.

vancejohnson82
02-22-2011, 08:58 PM
Please make it Peterson...I think he is that much of a better player

schaaf
02-22-2011, 09:00 PM
I agree, That would be one kick ass secondary

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
02-22-2011, 09:11 PM
Brian Xanders all but confirmed that Denver will be taking a defensive lineman on 104.3 The Fan today.

Right at the end of the interview he was asked what he was looking to do with the No. 2 pick and here was his answer. "We want a disruptive, playmaker that causes negative plays in the run game and in terms of sacks. That is a good person who loves football and wants to be a Denver Bronco for the next 15 years."

http://www.1043thefan.com/Channels/thedrive/Story.aspx?ID=1368604

Is this guy a Effing idiot! All he had to say was "We are looking at all prospects. FML! I could do this job!

SoCalBronco
02-22-2011, 09:12 PM
Even Xanders isn't stupid enough to be giving real info away.

epicSocialism4tw
02-22-2011, 09:31 PM
Bowers.

I'd be happy with Bowers, Fairley, or Dareus.

By what Xanders is saying, I think theyre looking at Marcell.

Carmelo15
02-22-2011, 09:34 PM
Bowers.

I'd be happy with Bowers, Fairley, or Dareus.

By what Xanders is saying, I think theyre looking at Marcell.

To me he sounded like he was describing Von Miller

SoCalBronco
02-22-2011, 09:40 PM
To me he sounded like he was describing Von Miller

I'm very worried about Von Miller. I don't see how he fits here at his weight unless he gains like 15 pounds and plays WDE...except that Doom is already being paid tens of millions to be the WDE. There's only one other place he can go and I'm not liking it.

schaaf
02-22-2011, 09:42 PM
One thing we know about Xanders is he can move up and down the draft board.

I expect that to happen with the #2

serious hops
02-22-2011, 09:42 PM
Be cool with DL if happens but, kind of disappointed we are staying with NEED drafting vs BPA drafting.

How do you know our front office thinks Patrick Peterson is a better player than Nick Fairley, Da'Quan Bowers, Marcell Dareus or whoever else? Despite what some people say around here, it's not an immutable fact written on a stone tablet somewhere that Patrick Peterson is hands down, unquestionably the best player in the draft.

epicSocialism4tw
02-22-2011, 09:44 PM
How do you know our front office thinks Patrick Peterson is a better player than Nick Fairley, Da'Quan Bowers, Marcell Dareus or whoever else? Despite what some people say around here, it's not an immutable fact written on a stone tablet somewhere that Patrick Peterson is hands down, unquestionably the best player in the draft.

But ebveryone say so!!!11!!!!!111!

epicSocialism4tw
02-22-2011, 09:44 PM
Negative plays in the run game...thats a DT.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
02-22-2011, 09:45 PM
I'm very worried about Von Miller. I don't see how he fits here at his weight unless he gains like 15 pounds and plays WDE...except that Doom is already being paid tens of millions to be the WDE. There's only one other place he can go and I'm not liking it.

I say Have Woodyard at WLB, Williams at SLB and FA stop gap at MLB with a early draft pick to come in behind him.

serious hops
02-22-2011, 09:45 PM
I'm very worried about Von Miller. I don't see how he fits here at his weight unless he gains like 15 pounds and plays WDE...except that Doom is already being paid tens of millions to be the WDE. There's only one other place he can go and I'm not liking it.

What, you don't want DJ back at SAM?

;D

SoCalBronco
02-22-2011, 09:47 PM
DJ will never play Sam and any coach that puts him at Sam is a moron who can't maximize talent. There is a bigger chance of DJ playing Safety than Sam.

Ratboy
02-22-2011, 09:48 PM
I don't see us going after Bowers. We already have Doom and Ayers. Even though Doom is coming off an injury, he was given a large contract. Unless they can trade him, Bowers will not be a Bronco.

Ratboy
02-22-2011, 09:49 PM
Negative plays in the run game...thats a DT.

:thumbsup:

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
02-22-2011, 09:52 PM
DJ will never play Sam and any coach that puts him at Sam is a moron who can't maximize talent. There is a bigger chance of DJ playing Safety than Sam.

I'm sorry. I'm just sick of seeing DJ unable to pick through the "trash" with a G in his face only to see him run down a RB from behind. Lets not for get the Year that we were ranked #2 in defense DJ was at SAM.

Carmelo15
02-22-2011, 09:54 PM
Negative plays in the run game...thats a DT.

I hope its Dareus, not Fairley

MABroncoFan
02-22-2011, 10:09 PM
Based on the draft value chart, we could trade down to #3 and pick up a 3rd and 4th rounder, or trade down to #4 and pick up a 2nd and 3rd while still getting a guy we're targetting.

schaaf
02-22-2011, 10:19 PM
Based on the draft value chart, we could trade down to #3 and pick up a 3rd and 4th rounder, or trade down to #4 and pick up a 2nd and 3rd while still getting a guy we're targetting.

The Draft Value Chart is full of ****.

I would advise you to never use that as a reference again.

NFLBRONCO
02-22-2011, 10:26 PM
How do you know our front office thinks Patrick Peterson is a better player than Nick Fairley, Da'Quan Bowers, Marcell Dareus or whoever else? Despite what some people say around here, it's not an immutable fact written on a stone tablet somewhere that Patrick Peterson is hands down, unquestionably the best player in the draft.

Peterson and Dareus are my top 2 choices in round 1. IMO Peterson is BPA overall. Dareus is my fav DL.

Your right any player can be hyped as BPA and end up being a flop its the risk all teams take.

No matter what side I take or others take we need to hit jackpot with our top pick.



I would be cool with Bowers or Fairley because it fills a major hole on our D which we need badly. I'll be thrilled that we filled a huge need on draft night but, far more scared that we failed to pick the best DL in 2011 draft vs drafting Peterson who is way more likely to be one of the gems in this draft.

orange crusher
02-22-2011, 10:39 PM
Good news just keeps coming out of the front office today (although anything regarding the draft can be bull....). Just maybe they do get it.

footstepsfrom#27
02-22-2011, 10:39 PM
Even Xanders isn't stupid enough to be giving real info away.
Well just to be on the same side hopefully the Elway/Fox braintrust will keep any legitimate information away from him so he can't spill the beans.

SoCalBronco
02-22-2011, 10:44 PM
Well just to be on the same side hopefully the Elway/Fox braintrust will keep any legitimate information away from him so he can't spill the beans.

I'd be honestly surprised if they shared (or intend to share) any legitimate high value information with Xanders....ever.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-22-2011, 10:44 PM
I'm very worried about Von Miller. I don't see how he fits here at his weight unless he gains like 15 pounds and plays WDE...except that Doom is already being paid tens of millions to be the WDE. There's only one other place he can go and I'm not liking it.

Von Miller produced quite a bit in college and dominated in the senior bowl (where they said he looked comfortable playing LB). I think the guy is gonna be a big weapon and id fully support them taking him at 2. I think hes a sure thing.

cutthemdown
02-22-2011, 10:45 PM
I'm very worried about Von Miller. I don't see how he fits here at his weight unless he gains like 15 pounds and plays WDE...except that Doom is already being paid tens of millions to be the WDE. There's only one other place he can go and I'm not liking it.

Yep weakside linebacker and your boy deejay is gonzo.

orange crusher
02-22-2011, 10:49 PM
Well just to be on the same side hopefully the Elway/Fox braintrust will keep any legitimate information away from him so he can't spill the beans.

I don't have much respect for Xanders and would tend to agree. However, there isn't really much reason to keep anything a secret picking #2. Carolina isn't going to pick someone just because Denver wants him and I don't believe anyone is going to trade up to #1 to get one of the DT's.

footstepsfrom#27
02-22-2011, 10:52 PM
Von Miller produced quite a bit in college and dominated in the senior bowl (where they said he looked comfortable playing LB). I think the guy is gonna be a big weapon and id fully support them taking him at 2. I think hes a sure thing.
But he only fits at Will and we can plug DJ in there where he's better than he is on the strong side. I think I'd rather have Akeem Ayers. He's 20 pounds bigger and probably just as fast. I'm tired of seeing our smallish defenders get engulfed.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-22-2011, 11:05 PM
But he only fits at Will and we can plug DJ in there where he's better than he is on the strong side. I think I'd rather have Akeem Ayers. He's 20 pounds bigger and probably just as fast. I'm tired of seeing our smallish defenders get engulfed.

If we play that 46 style D (like the Saints do), it won't matter. They'll fit him in fine. The guys a flat out player. He's gonna have success on the next level.

strafen
02-22-2011, 11:25 PM
Peterson is the most NFL-ready of the players we mat have targeted with our second pick.
He's more apt to make an immediate impact as a starter in his first year...
However, we're in no-lose situation.
Whoever we get will fit the bill...

Borks147
02-23-2011, 12:01 AM
However, we're in no-lose situation.
Whoever we get will fit the bill...

furiously knocking on wood.

*WARHORSE*
02-23-2011, 12:16 AM
If we pick at 2, its either Fairley or Quinn imo.



8')

Taco John
02-23-2011, 12:34 AM
Be cool with DL if happens but, kind of disappointed we are staying with NEED drafting vs BPA drafting.

This is a pretty ridiculous comment.

footstepsfrom#27
02-23-2011, 02:21 AM
I don't have much respect for Xanders and would tend to agree. However, there isn't really much reason to keep anything a secret picking #2. Carolina isn't going to pick someone just because Denver wants him and I don't believe anyone is going to trade up to #1 to get one of the DT's.
Perhaps not, but someone might be looking to trade up to get Cam Newton, who is apparently rising very quickly. Either Carolilna or Denver could have the option of trading down, and if we do I don't think it's to our advantage to make our intentions known if we are drafting somewhere like 6th or so. Trading down a few spots is much more attractive if we still get the guy we want. Besides...what if a possible trading partner were to offer a 2nd opportunity to move down. It behooves us to keep our true intentions to ourselves...unless of course John Elway thinks the draft should be subject to his new transparency measures. :sunshine:

Ray Finkle
02-23-2011, 04:29 AM
DJ will never play Sam and any coach that puts him at Sam is a moron who can't maximize talent. There is a bigger chance of DJ playing Safety than Sam.

at least the velcro DJ could get off the blocks of WR at SS....unlike that linemen he loves to stick to....
LOL

Kaylore
02-23-2011, 05:25 AM
There's another way to tell if this is legit. Look at who the Broncos bring in for workouts this year. The last two years every player we drafted was brought in.

Also this hand wringing over our lack of posturing is redicules. We have the second pick. Even if someone trades up and "steals" who we want away, that means we'll just take one of the other top five guys up there. And there are a lot of good players in the draft every year. People need to calm down.

meangene
02-23-2011, 05:47 AM
Von Miller produced quite a bit in college and dominated in the senior bowl (where they said he looked comfortable playing LB). I think the guy is gonna be a big weapon and id fully support them taking him at 2. I think hes a sure thing.

I'm coming around more and more to the idea of Miller for us in the first. I also agree he is less of a risk than some of the other highly-rated prospects and we just can't afford to miss on this pick. Taking into account character, production, and likely impact, he may well be the BPA.

Mediator12
02-23-2011, 06:07 AM
The writing for Peterson not being DEN's pick came as soon as DEN announced they were going to be tied to Fox as a HC. Fox is a heavy Zone guy wherever he has been with either front. He has never been a predominantly press man coverage scheme in the NFL. Whether it was PIT, Oak, NYG, or CAR he ran a heavy zone coverage scheme. Mostly a cover 2/3 roll depending on strength of the formation. He plays a very aggressive front with base zone coverage most of the time.

How the hell do you draft a CB that high to play zone coverage? It only makes sense if he can truly be allowed to play press man most of the time or he loses a tremendous amount of value schematically. Scheme's are always set up front to back with Run responsibilities the first step, then coverage. The coverage sets up the run fits and in heavy zone the CB's are routinely asked to come up and play the run, not press at the LOS. So, you are already asking Peterson to play away from his 2 greatest strengths in coverage. You are asking him to play off and not press, and you are asking him to be patient in zone coverage and not be aggressive in man.

Champ has never been a press CB. He is best in off coverage and has the best hip/flip movement In the NFL. He is so smooth transitioning zones and reading routes that he can literally cover 2 zones with his experience and anticipation of route combinations. Peterson is OK in zone, but it is not his strength. In fact, he loses interest playing zone and that is where he took off plays in college. Signing Champ makes sense becasue he is a prototypical Zone CB who can also play an effective off man coverage as a change up. Drafting Peterson makes less sense since he is a press Bail/man CB who likes to be physical with WR's.

Finally, there are more and more analysts who are not grading Peterson as the top player in the draft. Nolan Nawrocki has Peterson behind Bowers and Green, and just Slightly ahead of Miller, Dareus, and Fairley. He does have flaws just like all players do. He is not a concensus BPA, especially for a ZONE heavy defensive team. He can be beaten and he struggled mightily in his bowl game against a Pro Offense from Mike Sherman that took him out of his game. Is he the best CB prospect to come out since Charles Woodson, probably. I can not recall another guy being so skilled. However, to me it is all about the mental side for him. He was so dominant in college Physically, he was able to get away with freelancing. I really wonder how he handles getting beat at the pro level. Does he have the mentality to let it go or is he going to let it affect him. No one questions the talent, its the application of the talent in a diverse scheme that worries me.

oubronco
02-23-2011, 06:22 AM
Med it sounds like jimmy Smith would be a good choice later in the draft if we're gonna run a predominate zone, what do you think?

Mediator12
02-23-2011, 06:48 AM
Med it sounds like jimmy Smith would be a good choice later in the draft if we're gonna run a predominate zone, what do you think?

Maybe. People have him all over the place and most think he is a press CB in the pros. There are better zone CB options out there, plus he is not the best run stopper either. In fact, he is not a good tackler at all.

JCMElway
02-23-2011, 06:51 AM
The writing for Peterson not being DEN's pick came as soon as DEN announced they were going to be tied to Fox as a HC. Fox is a heavy Zone guy wherever he has been with either front. He has never been a predominantly press man coverage scheme in the NFL. .......

Ah, the voice of reason.....

TheReverend
02-23-2011, 07:54 AM
Peterson is a good person who disrupts gameplans and can cause negative rushing plays and sacks through blitzing opportunities.

Just sayin :)

listopencil
02-23-2011, 08:04 AM
Brian Xanders all but confirmed that Denver will be taking a defensive lineman on 104.3 The Fan today.

Right at the end of the interview he was asked what he was looking to do with the No. 2 pick and here was his answer. "We want a disruptive, playmaker that causes negative plays in the run game and in terms of sacks. That is a good person who loves football and wants to be a Denver Bronco for the next 15 years."

http://www.1043thefan.com/Channels/thedrive/Story.aspx?ID=1368604


A D-Lineman wouldn't play for 15 years. A CB could.

Kaylore
02-23-2011, 08:12 AM
Xanders was on the Ticket this morning and reiterated these sentiments about probably a defensive lineman. He also suggested they were going to focus mostly on defense in the draft this year.

phibacka31
02-23-2011, 08:21 AM
Xanders was on the Ticket this morning and reiterated these sentiments about probably a defensive lineman. He also suggested they were going to focus mostly on defense in the draft this year.

Not that it's a surprise, but if true he is a dumbass for showing our hand...

Tombstone RJ
02-23-2011, 08:30 AM
I hope there's a new CBA before the draft and a freaking rookie salary cap. If the Broncos take a DL with the #2 pick, it's gonna suck if they have to pay that DL more money than what Suh is getting.

That's really the main issue. There's no DL prospect in this draft that can hold Suh's cup, yet if the Broncos draft a DL and there is no new CBA, the Broncos will be forced to pay that DL prospect an enormous amount of money for a player with half the talent of Suh. Does not make sense.

Broncos should just trade down...

TheReverend
02-23-2011, 08:30 AM
Defensive linemen in the pro bowl:

6 were 1st round picks
3 were 3rd round picks
2 were 5th round picks
1 was a 7th round pick

Corners in the pro bowl:

ALL were 1st round picks

Safeties in the pro bowl:

All from the AFC were 1st round picks.
2 in the NFC were below 1st round selections (1 was a 2nd rounder and 1 was a third)

bendog
02-23-2011, 08:31 AM
yeah nobody'd suspect John Fox would want a dlineman. If Car takes bowers, it might alter the thinking.

Beantown Bronco
02-23-2011, 08:31 AM
Not that it's a surprise, but if true he is a dumbass for showing our hand...

You're not "showing your hand" when you have an obvious need at DL, are picking 2nd, and there are three DLinemen predicted to go in the top 4.

bendog
02-23-2011, 08:33 AM
You're not "showing your hand" when you have an obvious need at DL, are picking 2nd, and there are three DLinemen predicted to go in the top 4.

that's not true. Car know knows that if they want Bowers or Fairley, they'll have to take one before Den!

jhns
02-23-2011, 08:34 AM
I hope there's a new CBA before the draft and a freaking rookie salary cap. If the Broncos take a DL with the #2 pick, it's gonna suck if they have to pay that DL more money than what Suh is getting.

That's really the main issue. There's no DL prospect in this draft that can hold Suh's cup, yet if the Broncos draft a DL and there is no new CBA, the Broncos will be forced to pay that DL prospect an enormous amount of money for a player with half the talent of Suh. Does not make sense.

Broncos should just trade down...

It would have been nice if our really bad year came a year earlier. Suuuhhhhhh!

As for the draft, I want Bowers. Elvis is coming off an injury and Ayers hasn't been very impressive yet. I would love to see a healthy Dumervile on one side with Bowers on the other.

Beantown Bronco
02-23-2011, 08:36 AM
if the Broncos draft a DL and there is no new CBA, the Broncos will be forced to pay that DL prospect an enormous amount of money for a player with half the talent of Suh.

Not true. Draft picks won't make a penny until a new CBA is signed because team's won't be allowed to sign them, period.

There is zero chance that the new agreement will extend the "old rookie payscale". Literally neither side involved in the negotiations right now want to keep it, so it's safe to say a new, significantly lower rookie cap will be part of the new CBA. There's really no way around it.

Beantown Bronco
02-23-2011, 08:36 AM
that's not true. Car know knows that if they want Bowers or Fairley, they'll have to take one before Den!

:)

SonOfLe-loLang
02-23-2011, 08:44 AM
I hope there's a new CBA before the draft and a freaking rookie salary cap. If the Broncos take a DL with the #2 pick, it's gonna suck if they have to pay that DL more money than what Suh is getting.

That's really the main issue. There's no DL prospect in this draft that can hold Suh's cup, yet if the Broncos draft a DL and there is no new CBA, the Broncos will be forced to pay that DL prospect an enormous amount of money for a player with half the talent of Suh. Does not make sense.

Broncos should just trade down...

im not sure you understand how lockouts work

Tombstone RJ
02-23-2011, 08:54 AM
im not sure you understand how lockouts work

We will have to wait and see how things pan out with the new CBA. Everyone is guessing there will be a rookie cap, and there probably will be. That being said, nothing is known right now.

epicSocialism4tw
02-23-2011, 08:55 AM
Not that it's a surprise, but if true he is a dumbass for showing our hand...

I dont think thats any big secret.

TheReverend
02-23-2011, 08:56 AM
We will have to wait and see how things pan out with the new CBA. Everyone is guessing there will be a rookie cap, and there probably will be. That being said, nothing is known right now.

He's saying if a CBA isnt in place by the draft and we're heading for a lockout, we'll still draft the rights for the player we want, but won't do the contract until there is a resolution. So your concerns are moot.

Tombstone RJ
02-23-2011, 08:56 AM
Not true. Draft picks won't make a penny until a new CBA is signed because team's won't be allowed to sign them, period.

There is zero chance that the new agreement will extend the "old rookie payscale". Literally neither side involved in the negotiations right now want to keep it, so it's safe to say a new, significantly lower rookie cap will be part of the new CBA. There's really no way around it.

I certainly hope there's a rookie pay scale, for the Broncos sake. It'd make signing a DL at the #2 pick much more enticing.

Tombstone RJ
02-23-2011, 08:58 AM
He's saying if a CBA isnt in place by the draft and we're heading for a lockout, we'll still draft the rights for the player we want, but won't do the contract until there is a resolution. So your concerns are moot.

Until there's a new CBA, we are all guessing on what will happen with rookie contracts, especially players taken in the top 5-10 picks.

Beantown Bronco
02-23-2011, 09:02 AM
Everyone is guessing there will be a rookie cap, and there probably will be. That being said, nothing is known right now.

There are two parties involved in the negotiations:

The owners - clearly stated that they want the lower rookie cap
The current players - clearly stated they want the lower rookie cap because it means more $ for the vets.

Literally the only two parties who don't want the rookie cap (college kids declaring for the draft and their agents) aren't involved in the negotiations. It'll be pretty tough for them to win a contest that they can't enter.

CEH
02-23-2011, 09:18 AM
Xanders was on the Ticket this morning and reiterated these sentiments about probably a defensive lineman. He also suggested they were going to focus mostly on defense in the draft this year.

Vic asked Brian my question about Champ's comment about Josh and Xanders didn't answer it directly even though it was adirect quote from Champ

Xanders had no clue what Champ had said.

TheReverend
02-23-2011, 09:20 AM
Vic asked Brian my question about Champ's comment about Josh and Xanders didn't answer it directly even though it was adirect quote from Champ

Xanders had no clue what Champ had said.

Which comment?

Inkana7
02-23-2011, 09:20 AM
Even Xanders isn't stupid enough to be giving real info away.

With the 2nd pick, it's not like he has to worry about showing his hand that much.

Beantown Bronco
02-23-2011, 09:22 AM
Which comment?

"I thought about being on the market. But all in all, it didn't really take me to forgive them. There's new people in charge there. I know I could have got something worked out once Josh McDaniels left."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...#ixzz1EnG7poNu

CEH
02-23-2011, 09:23 AM
Which comment?

Champ in his press conference yesterday
" I know I could have got something worked out once Josh McDaniels left."

Was there anyone who alienated All pro players more than Josh.

Popps
02-23-2011, 10:13 AM
Logic is prevailing.

JDB7821
02-23-2011, 10:13 AM
A D-Lineman wouldn't play for 15 years. A CB could.

Bowers turned 21 today. There are a lot of defensive linemen that can play until they're 36.

Inkana7
02-23-2011, 10:26 AM
Not that it's a surprise, but if true he is a dumbass for showing our hand...

I'm sure that teams are shocked, just shocked, to find out we might need to draft defense.

BMarsh615
02-23-2011, 11:09 AM
Not that it's a surprise, but if true he is a dumbass for showing our hand...

Man we have the second pick in the draft. I am pretty sure they have at least 3 defensive lineman who they would be more than happy with. It's not a big secret that Denver needs help up front.

listopencil
02-23-2011, 11:43 AM
Bowers turned 21 today. There are a lot of defensive linemen that can play until they're 36.

Yeah, it's possible for a D-Lineman to play into their mid to late 30's but it's much more likely for a defensive back to have a very long career.

serious hops
02-23-2011, 11:56 AM
Yeah, it's possible for a D-Lineman to play into their mid to late 30's but it's much more likely for a defensive back to have a very long career.

Is there proof of that? Big DTs like Ted Washington, Sam Adams and Pat Williams seem to play forever.

baja
02-23-2011, 11:59 AM
Brian Xanders all but confirmed that Denver will be taking a defensive lineman on 104.3 The Fan today.

Right at the end of the interview he was asked what he was looking to do with the No. 2 pick and here was his answer. "We want a disruptive, playmaker that causes negative plays in the run game and in terms of sacks. That is a good person who loves football and wants to be a Denver Bronco for the next 15 years."

http://www.1043thefan.com/Channels/thedrive/Story.aspx?ID=1368604

That information is above his pay grade now if you want to know "deep dish" or "thin crust" he's your man.

listopencil
02-23-2011, 12:08 PM
Is there proof of that? Big DTs like Ted Washington, Sam Adams and Pat Williams seem to play forever.

Yes, there is. You can google it and get results that will tell you that it goes from Kickers/Punters/Long Snappers at the top all the way down to Running Backs for career length. It's easy data to track. Length of career is directly related to position even more so than injury history. Generally speaking the more contact a position endures, the shorter the career. With weight given to who is doing the hitting and who is being hit. There was a paper done by Milt Davis (PhD) and Pat Lombardi (PhD) and presented to the 56th Annual Meeting of the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) back in 2009. It tracks players from the 2004 combine to the 2008 season and it corroborates the NFL data.

listopencil
02-23-2011, 12:11 PM
I should say there might have been other authors/contributors involved besides those two. I'm just not aware of who they might be.

broncogary
02-23-2011, 12:57 PM
Yes, there is. You can google it and get results that will tell you that it goes from Kickers/Punters/Long Snappers at the top all the way down to Running Backs for career length. It's easy data to track. Length of career is directly related to position even more so than injury history. Generally speaking the more contact a position endures, the shorter the career. With weight given to who is doing the hitting and who is being hit. There was a paper done by Milt Davis (PhD) and Pat Lombardi (PhD) and presented to the 56th Annual Meeting of the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) back in 2009. It tracks players from the 2004 combine to the 2008 season and it corroborates the NFL data.

So that's why the Raiders took Janikowski. They're smarter than I thought. Ha!

Dedhed
02-23-2011, 01:01 PM
I believe everything I hear from GMs and coaches before the draft.

/sarcasm

Requiem
02-23-2011, 01:03 PM
Not really revealing our hand. Peterson, as much as I love him, was probably only going to get heavy consideration if Bailey wasn't re-signed. Now that he was, we will focus on the trenches. Not a bad idea. Dareus, Fairley, Bowers -- come on down! I just hope we stay away from Quinn.

TheReverend
02-23-2011, 01:06 PM
Not really revealing our hand. Peterson, as much as I love him, was probably only going to get heavy consideration if Bailey wasn't re-signed. Now that he was, we will focus on the trenches. Not a bad idea. Dareus, Fairley, Bowers -- come on down! I just hope we stay away from Quinn.

Von Miller is my nightmare possibility.

Taco John
02-23-2011, 01:41 PM
We showed our hand when we brought John Fox in as the head coach. I don't think that it's a huge mystery in the league that the Broncos will be drafting defense heavy this offseason.

NFLBRONCO
02-23-2011, 01:46 PM
Von Miller is my nightmare possibility.

he's the next D Thomas

meangene
02-23-2011, 01:48 PM
he's the next D Thomas

You mean Derrick Thomas?

NFLBRONCO
02-23-2011, 02:16 PM
You mean Derrick Thomas?

yep

Crushaholic
02-23-2011, 02:21 PM
Brian Xanders all but confirmed that Denver will be taking a defensive lineman on 104.3 The Fan today.

Right at the end of the interview he was asked what he was looking to do with the No. 2 pick and here was his answer. "We want a disruptive, playmaker that causes negative plays in the run game and in terms of sacks. That is a good person who loves football and wants to be a Denver Bronco for the next 15 years."

http://www.1043thefan.com/Channels/thedrive/Story.aspx?ID=1368604

Xanders is dreaming...and dreaming big. In the era of free agency, there are very few players who play for one team their whole careers. Ray Lewis may accomplish that feat, but he's an exception. We just need someone who can fill a need, NOW...

SonOfLe-loLang
02-23-2011, 02:22 PM
Von Miller is my nightmare possibility.

While I understand why you say this, he's quickly becoming my sure thing. I think this guy will be a hybrid terror and was REALLLLLLLY productive on the college level. Didnt he lead in sacks 2 years ago with like 17 or something?

meangene
02-23-2011, 03:40 PM
While I understand why you say this, he's quickly becoming my sure thing. I think this guy will be a hybrid terror and was REALLLLLLLY productive on the college level. Didnt he lead in sacks 2 years ago with like 17 or something?

Yep, and he has had four years of production and absolutely no character issues. Really stood out at the Senior Bowl.

bendog
02-23-2011, 03:48 PM
I hope he's better than Derrick Thomas. No dis intended cause he was a great pass rusher, but he was limited v. the run and a liablilty in pass. I like Miller too, and expect him to be a brute against the run, in the right sheme, but he seems to translate more into a will in a 4-3. That's one of two positions we actually have someone to man who might concievably be good enough to be a contending team.

Chris
02-23-2011, 04:01 PM
I hope he's better than Derrick Thomas. No dis intended cause he was a great pass rusher, but he was limited v. the run and a liablilty in pass. I like Miller too, and expect him to be a brute against the run, in the right sheme, but he seems to translate more into a will in a 4-3. That's one of two positions we actually have someone to man who might concievably be good enough to be a contending team.

The mullet brigade is coming after you.

JDB7821
02-23-2011, 04:12 PM
Defensive linemen in the pro bowl:

6 were 1st round picks
3 were 3rd round picks
2 were 5th round picks
1 was a 7th round pick

Corners in the pro bowl:

ALL were 1st round picks

Safeties in the pro bowl:

All from the AFC were 1st round picks.
2 in the NFC were below 1st round selections (1 was a 2nd rounder and 1 was a third)

Brent Grimes wasn't drafted.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-23-2011, 04:19 PM
Brent Grimes wasn't drafted.

and though Tramon Williams wasnt a probowler, he wasnt drafted either.

Plus we play zone. I think Syd'quan will thrive in this system.

KevinJames
02-23-2011, 04:28 PM
I think we should draft Patrick Peterson anyway play him at both corner and safety. The DL position is so deep and the DB position is not so I think we pass on Bowers, taking a DT that high is not very safe, unless we decide to go with Dareus.

Worked out great for the saints with Malcolm Jenkins we have their old DBs coach as our DC

and I think Peterson is twice as fast and twice the prospect Jenkins is, hes a future pro bowler at CB or FS, these guys don't come along very much.

listopencil
02-23-2011, 05:15 PM
Xanders is dreaming...and dreaming big. In the era of free agency, there are very few players who play for one team their whole careers. Ray Lewis may accomplish that feat, but he's an exception. We just need someone who can fill a need, NOW...

You know, thinking about this again I remembered that Xanders is terrible in interviews. He has been more of a behind-the-scenes guy and was called out on that in Elway's press conference. Maybe Ellis and Elway are letting Xanders wander around and run his mouth as a natural and effective disinformation service to confuse other teams.

epicSocialism4tw
02-23-2011, 05:18 PM
The mullet brigade is coming after you.

http://www.photographthis.com/d/6382-1/4x4+camaro+red+neck+mullet+car+_1_.jpg

Requiem
02-23-2011, 05:30 PM
Von Miller is my nightmare possibility.

Miller is a good prospect, but nowhere worth #2 overall. Wasn't there an article from the Senior Bowl week that said we were supposedly really high on him?

Mediator12
02-23-2011, 06:00 PM
Miller is a good prospect, but nowhere worth #2 overall. Wasn't there an article from the Senior Bowl week that said we were supposedly really high on him?

Miller and Quinn are not good fits for DEN. Miller is Dumervil, except 3 inches taller and with shorter arms! Not sure why anyone would want 2 of the exact same player. Quinn is also a one trick pony. Pure pass rusher, who dominated lesser competition and had a ton of help with that DL to keep him free. Not a good effort run player, and real slow to read his keys. He is just the type of DL I do not draft early.

schaaf
02-23-2011, 06:17 PM
Miller and Quinn are not good fits for DEN. Miller is Dumervil, except 3 inches taller and with shorter arms! Not sure why anyone would want 2 of the exact same player. Quinn is also a one trick pony. Pure pass rusher, who dominated lesser competition and had a ton of help with that DL to keep him free. Not a good effort run player, and real slow to read his keys. He is just the type of DL I do not draft early.

Not really, Miller is 237 and wowed scouts at the combine in his coverage skills. He could VERY easily play an OLB role in a 4-3

oubronco
02-23-2011, 06:22 PM
Please just draft Dareus he is the surest thing to me

JDB7821
02-23-2011, 06:39 PM
I still think Peterson wouldn't be a bad pick because the Broncos' secondary is old by league standards. But you can never have enough pass rushers and Da'Quan Bowers could be the next Julius Peppers. Dumervil, Ayers, and Bowers would be a great tandem. Bowers could slide inside on 3rd down like Justin Tuck and would allow Dumervil to be worked back into the game without rushing the injury.

schaaf
02-23-2011, 07:03 PM
Honestly....

If we get either,

Peterson
Bowers
Dareus
Fairley
Miller
Green

I'll be pretty damn happy on draft day.

cutthemdown
02-23-2011, 07:13 PM
Honestly....

If we get either,

Peterson
Bowers
Dareus
Fairley
Miller
Green

I'll be pretty damn happy on draft day.

If Broncos could drop down to where the cards are, gets an extra 2nd round pick, then grab a player like Miller, stick him at the weakside. Then you have 3 2nd round picks to target some size at DT, maybe a TE, maybe a safety. The safety from UCLA, the TE from Notre Dame, i think those 2 in a few years will be among the better players that came out this yr.

Talk about helping Tebow. A killer big TE that can do some chipping on the dends, grab him some key 3rd downs, and big and fast enough to scare safetys and CBS deep.

cutthemdown
02-23-2011, 07:15 PM
Not really, Miller is 237 and wowed scouts at the combine in his coverage skills. He could VERY easily play an OLB role in a 4-3

Yeah Miller a prototype 4-3 weakside linebacker. That would mean DJ probably on his way out. I don't see Fox wanting a weakside strongside linebacker etc etc. You draft Miller, then you stick woodyard as his bkup, you trade DJ for maybe a 3rd or 4th rounder? something like that? I don't know if he would be worth much more then that.

serious hops
02-23-2011, 07:20 PM
Miller is a good prospect, but nowhere worth #2 overall.

Is anyone worth the number two overall besides Patrick Peterson?

strafen
02-23-2011, 07:22 PM
Yeah Miller a prototype 4-3 weakside linebacker. That would mean DJ probably on his way out. I don't see Fox wanting a weakside strongside linebacker etc etc. You draft Miller, then you stick woodyard as his bkup, you trade DJ for maybe a 3rd or 4th rounder? something like that? I don't know if he would be worth much more then that.

DJ has always been amongst the top 3 defensive player on our team at any given time. Not enough talent around him to help him out.
At team with an already stout defense could complement with DJ in there...

Requiem
02-23-2011, 07:39 PM
Is anyone worth the number two overall besides Patrick Peterson?

Considering how devoid this team is of talent on the front seven, even though Bowers and Fairley have their flaws, for this team they certainly are. Dareus as well. I'd prefer trading down and still being able to landing one of those players, Peterson included.

The Bowers/Peppers idea makes sense considering Fox's history, but maybe they are content with Dumervil and Ayers at end. Personally, I'd rather have one of the elite DT's to free up our ends with our first selection if they don't go Peterson.

There are a lot of solid edge rushers and ends in this draft and there will be good value there where we have our next selections. Go for the top tier DT if you can.

We need DT, DE, S, LB with our first four picks. Pending what happens with Harris we could use an OT and perhaps RB. Hopefully a new CBA is adopted quickly, otherwise we have a lot of holes to go and fill in the draft without the possibility of FA until after.

footstepsfrom#27
02-23-2011, 07:53 PM
Miller and Quinn are not good fits for DEN. Miller is Dumervil, except 3 inches taller and with shorter arms! Not sure why anyone would want 2 of the exact same player. Quinn is also a one trick pony. Pure pass rusher, who dominated lesser competition and had a ton of help with that DL to keep him free. Not a good effort run player, and real slow to read his keys. He is just the type of DL I do not draft early.
Disagree on Quinn. He missed a year, but some scouts think he's the same player as Bowers, albeit a bit lighter. Miller is an edge rusher mostly and he's on the small side, not sure how he'd fit here but we have bigger needs.

Shananahan
02-23-2011, 08:13 PM
Yeah Miller a prototype 4-3 weakside linebacker. That would mean DJ probably on his way out. I don't see Fox wanting a weakside strongside linebacker etc etc. You draft Miller, then you stick woodyard as his bkup, you trade DJ for maybe a 3rd or 4th rounder? something like that? I don't know if he would be worth much more then that.
I've seen some Packer fans saying that Nick Barnett could be traded this offseason, some for as low as a 4th. I'd be all over that if I could for Denver.

NFLBRONCO
02-23-2011, 08:22 PM
Considering how devoid this team is of talent on the front seven, even though Bowers and Fairley have their flaws, for this team they certainly are. Dareus as well. I'd prefer trading down and still being able to landing one of those players, Peterson included.

The Bowers/Peppers idea makes sense considering Fox's history, but maybe they are content with Dumervil and Ayers at end. Personally, I'd rather have one of the elite DT's to free up our ends with our first selection if they don't go Peterson.

There are a lot of solid edge rushers and ends in this draft and there will be good value there where we have our next selections. Go for the top tier DT if you can.

We need DT, DE, S, LB with our first four picks. Pending what happens with Harris we could use an OT and perhaps RB. Hopefully a new CBA is adopted quickly, otherwise we have a lot of holes to go and fill in the draft without the possibility of FA until after.

I would go DT DE LB S/RB/OT. I agree I hope FA can happen before draft come on get CBA done.

BroncoMan4ever
02-23-2011, 08:27 PM
Is anyone worth the number two overall besides Patrick Peterson?

Dareus?

Dedhed
02-23-2011, 08:28 PM
Yeah Miller a prototype 4-3 weakside linebacker. That would mean DJ probably on his way out. I don't see Fox wanting a weakside strongside linebacker etc etc. You draft Miller, then you stick woodyard as his bkup, you trade DJ for maybe a 3rd or 4th rounder? something like that? I don't know if he would be worth much more then that.

Miller is a strong side LB in a 4-3.

Dedhed
02-23-2011, 08:28 PM
Is anyone worth the number two overall besides Patrick Peterson?

No.

Dedhed
02-23-2011, 08:29 PM
Considering how devoid this team is of talent on the front seven, even though Bowers and Fairley have their flaws, for this team they certainly are. Dareus as well. I'd prefer trading down and still being able to landing one of those players, Peterson included.

The Bowers/Peppers idea makes sense considering Fox's history, but maybe they are content with Dumervil and Ayers at end. Personally, I'd rather have one of the elite DT's to free up our ends with our first selection if they don't go Peterson.

There are a lot of solid edge rushers and ends in this draft and there will be good value there where we have our next selections. Go for the top tier DT if you can.

We need DT, DE, S, LB with our first four picks. Pending what happens with Harris we could use an OT and perhaps RB. Hopefully a new CBA is adopted quickly, otherwise we have a lot of holes to go and fill in the draft without the possibility of FA until after.
This is a really long winded way of saying "No, unless you're willing to bypass better players and draft for need."

serious hops
02-23-2011, 08:44 PM
Dareus?

Yep. I was being sarcastic.

;D

serious hops
02-23-2011, 08:45 PM
No.

Is he, in fact, the best prospect ever?

Dedhed
02-23-2011, 09:01 PM
Is he, in fact, the best prospect ever?

Champ and Deion were as good. Suh as well.

footstepsfrom#27
02-23-2011, 09:06 PM
Is anyone worth the number two overall besides Patrick Peterson?
I don't think so. Here's an intriguing scenario though. Newton is supposedly climbing the charts quickly and a great combine might push him up to this spot. If Carolina doesn't take him, speculation is that Buffalo would at #3. That might make Denver's #2 spot very attractive to teams wanting to trade up for a QB ahead of the Bills. IF we have any idea of trading back,they might land a nice haul if they wait long enough to see whether teams will outbid each other or not.

footstepsfrom#27
02-23-2011, 09:08 PM
Miller is a strong side LB in a 4-3.
At 237 lbs? I don't think he's anything but a weak side backer at that size.

serious hops
02-23-2011, 09:11 PM
Do you guys think we should trade up to number one to make sure we get Peterson?

footstepsfrom#27
02-23-2011, 09:18 PM
What would be really sweet is if somebody like Arizona would swap us picks and we take 'em to the cleaners and still wind up with Peterson.

epicSocialism4tw
02-23-2011, 09:32 PM
Is he, in fact, the best prospect ever?

I dont know. Andrew Luck was pretty amazing too.

I think that they both sprung from the loins of Zeus.

schaaf
02-23-2011, 09:38 PM
Do you guys think we should trade up to number one to make sure we get Peterson?

http://nolifing.com/files/e3f292844a15.jpg

Dedhed
02-23-2011, 09:44 PM
Do you guys think we should trade up to number one to make sure we get Peterson?

I think it's better to trade Quinn/orton/tebow and #2 and then draft all DL. With a strong DL we won't need a QB.

serious hops
02-23-2011, 10:31 PM
I think it's better to trade Quinn/orton/tebow and #2 and then draft all DL. With a strong DL we won't need a QB.

Okay, just checking.

;D

epicSocialism4tw
02-23-2011, 10:55 PM
What if Andrew Luck and Patrick Peterson were combined?

Patrick Luck....the most hyped prospect in orangemane history.

A QB/CB hybrid capable of destroying both the opposing offense and the opposing defense on his own. He runs a 2.1 40 (thats his high time...the lower time was thrown out because it was deemed physically impossible...a -1.2 40-yard dash). Weighs 655 lbs of pure steel. He's all of 7'8". Has an arm that throws 252 mph. He has never thrown a pick, but has picked off every pass thrown by an opposing QB...even if its across the field.

He played college ball for MIT...they put in a football program just for him. It was him and a bunch of engineering and neuroscience nerds and they went undefeated against every team in the Big 12 and SEC before shellacking Oklahoma 365-0 in the BCS title game. He won 4 straight Heismans...maintaining a 4.0 at MIT over the course of his degree, which he finished in a year. The subsequent 3 years were spent doing research on neural image mapping and synaptic plasticity, where he completed a PhD (his thesis won the Nobel Prize), finished 5 post-doc specialties, and established an entire research wing funded by a set of investments that he set up that compound yearly at 642%.

Tecmo Bo Jackson on Patrick Luck, "Pat knows mo than Bo."

cutthemdown
02-24-2011, 01:12 AM
Miller is a strong side LB in a 4-3.

He may be good enough and physical enough but at sub 240 you would think weakside in a 4-3. Really though ssl not a huge playmaker spot. I doubt any team takes him super high to play him at SSL which often leaves the field on 3rd downs for another dback.

oubronco
02-24-2011, 05:59 AM
At 237 lbs? I don't think he's anything but a weak side backer at that size.

"We want to be that fast, disruptive group," Xanders said.

Denver's defensive front will be smaller and quicker overall, especially at end and linebacker. Elvis Dumervil and Robert Ayers, at 245 and 274 pounds respectively, would play the right and left end positions.

The Broncos also want smaller, quicker linebackers. When Ayers, Mario Haggan, D.J. Williams and Wesley Woodyard started the 2010 season finale at linebacker, Denver had three linebackers who weighed at least 240 pounds and two were more than 260.

In the 2010 season finale for Fox's Panthers, they didn't start a linebacker weighing more than 237 pounds.



Read more: Search for quick fix on Broncos' defense starts - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17467501#ixzz1EsuyUjai
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

meangene
02-24-2011, 06:38 AM
He may be good enough and physical enough but at sub 240 you would think weakside in a 4-3. Really though ssl not a huge playmaker spot. I doubt any team takes him super high to play him at SSL which often leaves the field on 3rd downs for another dback.

I would assume with Miller a team will put him on the edge with his hand on the ground on third downs. I could see us moving Ayers inside and putting Miller next to him opposite Doom.

Dedhed
02-24-2011, 06:50 AM
I would assume with Miller a team will put him on the edge with his hand on the ground on third downs. I could see us moving Ayers inside and putting Miller next to him opposite Doom.

That's my thought exactly. On the strong side, he has the ability to cover the TE, is a match up nightmare for a TE if he blitzes, and can move to the DL on 3rd down when a Sam normally comes off the field.

Its similar to what Matthews does in GB really, just with different semantics. Miller's got the versatility to give a creative DC a lot of options.

Although if he's the target we have to move back a little and try to get more value. Tough to do though, given that he's projected in the top 5 just about everywhere you look.

meangene
02-24-2011, 06:57 AM
That's my thought exactly. On the strong side, he has the ability to cover the TE, is a match up nightmare for a TE if he blitzes, and can move to the DL on 3rd down when a Sam normally comes off the field.

Its similar to what Matthews does in GB really, just with different semantics. Miller's got the versatility to give a creative DC a lot of options.

Although if he's the target we have to move back a little and try to get more value. Tough to do though, given that he's projected in the top 5 just about everywhere you look.

If he blows it up at the combine, he could move up even more.

Beantown Bronco
02-24-2011, 07:07 AM
In the 2010 season finale for Fox's Panthers, they didn't start a linebacker weighing more than 237 pounds.


I wonder how much that contributed to their sucky run defense last year.

JJG
02-24-2011, 07:44 AM
What if Andrew Luck and Patrick Peterson were combined?

Patrick Luck....the most hyped prospect in orangemane history.

A QB/CB hybrid capable of destroying both the opposing offense and the opposing defense on his own. He runs a 2.1 40 (thats his high time...the lower time was thrown out because it was deemed physically impossible...a -1.2 40-yard dash). Weighs 655 lbs of pure steel. He's all of 7'8". Has an arm that throws 252 mph. He has never thrown a pick, but has picked off every pass thrown by an opposing QB...even if its across the field.

He played college ball for MIT...they put in a football program just for him. It was him and a bunch of engineering and neuroscience nerds and they went undefeated against every team in the Big 12 and SEC before shellacking Oklahoma 365-0 in the BCS title game. He won 4 straight Heismans...maintaining a 4.0 at MIT over the course of his degree, which he finished in a year. The subsequent 3 years were spent doing research on neural image mapping and synaptic plasticity, where he completed a PhD (his thesis won the Nobel Prize), finished 5 post-doc specialties, and established an entire research wing funded by a set of investments that he set up that compound yearly at 642%.

Tecmo Bo Jackson on Patrick Luck, "Pat knows mo than Bo."

You must be forgetting the time he picked off his own pass. (yes, it really is possible) He was going for the elusive football tripple double, which up until that point in time, was nothing but forklore.

oubronco
02-24-2011, 08:04 AM
I wonder how much that contributed to their sucky run defense last year.

Probably alot and from that article it seems they want to go smaller and quicker like shanny used too