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View Full Version : Michael Lombardi on Tebow


BroncoSojia
02-21-2011, 03:48 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81e68823/article/uncertainty-about-tebow-leaves-broncos-with-draft-dilemma?module=HP_cp2

The Denver Broncos own the second overall pick in the draft and have many holes to fill. Picking defensive talent has never been a strongpoint of the organization, and there will be a huge push to fix a unit that ranked at the bottom of the league statistically. However, the toughest question Denver must answer is its long-term solution at quarterback.

Tim Tebow, a first-round pick last year, was not selected by new coach John Fox. Most members of the Broncos who were there when the Tebow pick was made are looking to distance themselves from the choice, which is a classic way for things to operate in the NFL.

Last year, no one associated with the Broncos complained about the Tebow pick, thinking they were being loyal to the head coach, when in reality, not voicing an opinion or pretending you like a player is the highest form of disloyalty and disservice.

So Tebow is a man without much support in Denver, making quarterback a huge need. Can the Broncos be so focused on defense that they ignore an NFL team's most essential position? Or will they feel like Kyle Orton can manage the game well enough to allow them to replenish the defense, something near and dear to Fox's heart?

After ranking 32nd in overall defense, 31st against the run and 25th vs. the pass, Denver is switching back to a 4-3 scheme. In reality, the Broncos played that package in almost half of their games. Their best pass rusher, Elvis Dumervil, missed all of last season with a torn pectoral muscle. He will move from linebacker to end, but the Broncos will still be looking to enhance their defensive front.

The Broncos need to decide where outside linebacker Robert Ayers fits in the new scheme, as he was their best front-seven player when healthy (he missed five games in 2010). Ayers is not perfect, but he does play with power, something few Broncos can do.

With Fox being the most experienced football man in the building, I would expect the Broncos to strengthen his area of expertise with most of their draft picks and leave the quarterback question alone.

As time goes on, I'm starting to believe that Elway doesn't want KO or Tebow as the starting QB in the long term.

However due to the fact that we took a QB in the first round last year and that we have so many holes on the defensive side of the ball, they can't afford to draft a QB with a high pick this year. Not to mention IMO there are no QB's in the draft worth being selected with a top 3 pick.

They will start Orton or Tebow this year, but next year if we have a season similar to the past one (real possibility), I wouldn't be shocked if we took a QB with our 1st. (Luck or Barkley)

Elway would then have his own "guy" under center.

TheReverend
02-21-2011, 04:08 PM
http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=97069

Rulon Velvet Jones
02-21-2011, 04:08 PM
No reason to deal Orton unless you're blown away by the offer. Competition in the offseason and camps (if there are any) will be good for both. Let the best man win. Question is - will the other sulk if beaten out, fair and square?

Shananahan
02-21-2011, 04:15 PM
No reason to deal Orton unless you're blown away by the offer. Competition in the offseason and camps (if there are any) will be good for both. Let the best man win. Question is - will the other sulk if beaten out, fair and square?
There's logic there, but with where the team is at right now I think it makes much more sense to accept that only one of them will be playing QB for the Broncos in the future and the odds of that one being Orton are very slim. It seems dumb to me to want to hold out for an amazing offer and get nothing instead. It also doesn't hurt that his value in trade for Denver will probably never be higher. I'm not saying they should just give him away, but they should absolutely get something for him while they can.

rovolution
02-21-2011, 04:17 PM
gotta keep in mind that Lombardi is friends with McDaniels,so obviously he was upset with the organization when his friend got fired.

Agamemnon
02-21-2011, 04:17 PM
Err...so despite the fact that Fox and Tebow have an established relationship and that Elway has repeatedly backed Tebow (even saying that a coach that wasn't willing to work with him wasn't going to be the right coach for the Broncos), Michael Lombardi says he doesn't have support and you believe him? Okay...

Seriously this really exposes what a little douche Lombardi is, and nothing more.

Gort
02-21-2011, 04:19 PM
if this article is true and if Elway honestly believes that this Broncos team, as currently constituted, would win more games with Orton under center than Tebow, then i'd question Elway's ability to do the job he now has.

i saw Orton play and i saw Tebow play and there was a night and day difference between the two. Orton is a serviceable game manager for the right team. this is not that team. Tebow is young and still has much to prove, but the guy has intangibles that Orton can't even begin to compete with.

send Orton to Minnesota. he might be a good fit for them. get some quality defensive players in return. give Tebow a chance in 2011 (if there is no lockout) and then decide if he's got a future in Denver... but if Elway has already made up his mind that he's not, then i think Elway will turn out to be as bad a Bowlen hire as McD was.

yerner
02-21-2011, 04:22 PM
There's logic there, but with where the team is at right now I think it makes much more sense to accept that only one of them will be playing QB for the Broncos in the future and the odds of that one being Orton are very slim. It seems dumb to me to want to hold out for an amazing offer and get nothing instead. It also doesn't hurt that his value in trade for Denver will probably never be higher. I'm not saying they should just give him away, but they should absolutely get something for him while they can.

I disagree. The broncos first priority is to win games next year. Keeping both QB's make this a better team.

Gort
02-21-2011, 04:26 PM
I disagree. The broncos first priority is to win games next year. Keeping both QB's make this a better team.

keeping both if Orton is the backup will lead to a toxic locker oom. we've had several hints already that Orton is not happy being a backup and doesn't particularly like or respect Tebow. that's a recipe for locker room trouble... Terrell Owens/Randy Moss type locker room trouble.

Shananahan
02-21-2011, 04:30 PM
I disagree. The broncos first priority is to win games next year. Keeping both QB's make this a better team.
I want them to win games as much as anybody, but unless you really believe that Orton is the future of the franchise or that he'll have a great year again next year and then be tagged and traded, I think you should do it now.

TheReverend
02-21-2011, 04:34 PM
I disagree. The broncos first priority is to win games next year. Keeping both QB's make this a better team.

Not if it potentially costs the team an adequate starter.

Drek
02-21-2011, 05:11 PM
I disagree. The broncos first priority is to win games next year. Keeping both QB's make this a better team.

The Broncos first priority is to get back to being a 10+ win per season franchise. If getting a quality pick out of Orton is a possibility, and the team doesn't view him as a long term Bronco, then its for the best to move him along.

zdoor
02-21-2011, 05:23 PM
Orton has said he is a starter and would be coming back in that role if at all. He basically intimates he'd be a sulker with a bad attitude riding pine. I think keeping him again creates drama that this team doesn't need. IMO we'd be better of trading him....

enjolras
02-21-2011, 05:30 PM
I must have watched a different Quarterback play last year. Orton was lights out up until his injury. I like Tebow alot, but lets not tear Orton down to build Tebow up.

Agamemnon
02-21-2011, 05:42 PM
I must have watched a different Quarterback play last year. Orton was lights out up until his injury. I like Tebow alot, but lets not tear Orton down to build Tebow up.

Yes you clearly were watching a different quarterback...

Chris
02-21-2011, 05:45 PM
Orton was lights out on 1st and 2nd down. I'll give you that. Orton was deer in the headlights on 3rd down.

Shananahan
02-21-2011, 05:51 PM
I must have watched a different Quarterback play last year. Orton was lights out up until his injury. I like Tebow alot, but lets not tear Orton down to build Tebow up.
Agreed, I thought he played great and many of the things used against him I feel were at least partly due to the failings of the rest of the offense. That said, discussing the merits of trading him isn't tearing him down at all. Regardless of how good he played, he is most likely not the future and the team would be better served going forward to get something for him while they can.

Archer81
02-21-2011, 05:52 PM
Can a QB be truly "lights out" when he leads the team to a 3-10 record?


:Broncos:

KipCorrington25
02-21-2011, 06:09 PM
Can a QB be truly "lights out" when he leads the team to a 3-10 record?


:Broncos:

No, and Orton sucks.

epicSocialism4tw
02-21-2011, 06:10 PM
Orton was lights out on 1st and 2nd down. I'll give you that. Orton was deer in the headlights on 3rd down.

He was a deer in the headlights in the red zone as well.

The difference between he and Tebow in the red zone was large enough that the Broncos staff shouldnt think of bringing Orton back as the starter at all.

Hamrob
02-21-2011, 06:16 PM
Lombardi hasn't had anything good to say about Tebow since he came out of FLorida.

He like many others will be drinking the Kool aid before its all said and done.

Really...what the hell does he know anyway. How about naming a source idiot!

TheReverend
02-21-2011, 07:10 PM
I must have watched a different Quarterback play last year. Orton was lights out up until his injury. I like Tebow alot, but lets not tear Orton down to build Tebow up.

Tebow produced more yards, points and a higher win % than Orton without the "luxury" of a headcoach...

Lights out, indeed.

broncosteven
02-21-2011, 07:25 PM
The Broncos only played 4-3 in a couple of games and even then it was a hybrid only because mCd panicked and let injuries take him out of his gameplanning. Once mCd stopped being desperate and moved back to what they practiced in TC I don't remember seeing them use it.

Homer Simpson
02-21-2011, 07:36 PM
Some people in the national media are sticking to this ridiculous notion Tebow can't play, despite evidence to the contrary last year. It's very tiresome. Get a damned CBA in place and trade Orton for a second.

I can't wait to see the media backtrack next year.

epicSocialism4tw
02-21-2011, 07:39 PM
Some people in the national media are sticking to this ridiculous notion Tebow can't play, despite evidence to the contrary last year. It's very tiresome. Get a damned CBA in place and trade Orton for a second.

I can't wait to see the media backtrack next year.

They'll make up excuses then too.

peacepipe
02-21-2011, 07:44 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81e68823/article/uncertainty-about-tebow-leaves-broncos-with-draft-dilemma?module=HP_cp2



As time goes on, I'm starting to believe that Elway doesn't want KO or Tebow as the starting QB in the long term.

However due to the fact that we took a QB in the first round last year and that we have so many holes on the defensive side of the ball, they can't afford to draft a QB with a high pick this year. Not to mention IMO there are no QB's in the draft worth being selected with a top 3 pick.

They will start Orton or Tebow this year, but next year if we have a season similar to the past one (real possibility), I wouldn't be shocked if we took a QB with our 1st. (Luck or Barkley)

Elway would then have his own "guy" under center.i think elway,although he will not say it publicly, wants andrew luck in next yrs draft.

Shananahan
02-21-2011, 07:45 PM
He and almost everybody else in the NFL.

epicSocialism4tw
02-21-2011, 07:47 PM
i think elway,although he will not say it publicly, wants andrew luck in next yrs draft.

If he does, then he's a moron. Everyone wanted Jake Locker last year at this time too. He was t"he next Elway" back then.

Things change alot over the course of a year.

peacepipe
02-21-2011, 07:50 PM
If he does, then he's a moron. Everyone wanted Jake Locker last year at this time too. He was t"he next Elway" back then.

Things change alot over the course of a year.

then we'll see what happens,I don't recall some big wave of people comparing rocker to elway

jsco70
02-21-2011, 07:55 PM
He was a deer in the headlights in the red zone as well.

The difference between he and Tebow in the red zone was large enough that the Broncos staff shouldnt think of bringing Orton back as the starter at all.

In addition, Orton was also a deer in the headlights on the 4th quarter. He made key 4th quarter turnovers in multiple games this past season.

Denver needs to turn the page.

AZorange1
02-21-2011, 07:55 PM
This guy is a complete idiot. Reading the entire article was like having a root canal. It was like listening for twenty minutes to somebody talking to themselves in the john.

footstepsfrom#27
02-21-2011, 07:57 PM
Lombardi thinks Tebow doesn't have the fans support in Denver.

Let's face it, most of these guys have no idea what they're talking about and they just mail it in. Sports "journalism" has to be one of the easiest jobs out there. Any dummy with a BA in journalism who knows the right people can get his foot in the door and opine on all this stuff. The funny part is how many fans actually think they know **** about what they're talking about.

epicSocialism4tw
02-21-2011, 07:59 PM
then we'll see what happens,I don't recall some big wave of people comparing rocker to elway

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlesports/2009/06/24/could-jake-locker-be-john-elway-jr/

http://www.the3-4.com/2011/01/jake-locker-scouting-report.html

http://www.ncaatime.com/?p=3549

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/402012-how-jake-locker-can-become-a-seahawks-player


Those are a few. Several people here on this board argued with me over whether Locker was better than Sam Bradford, and they often used the "next Elway" label.

peacepipe
02-21-2011, 08:01 PM
http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlesports/2009/06/24/could-jake-locker-be-john-elway-jr/

http://www.the3-4.com/2011/01/jake-locker-scouting-report.html

http://www.ncaatime.com/?p=3549

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/402012-how-jake-locker-can-become-a-seahawks-player


Those are a few. Several people here on this board argued with me over whether Locker was better than Sam Bradford, and they often used the "next Elway" label.

i was not big on locker, but you are right for once.

epicSocialism4tw
02-21-2011, 08:02 PM
i was not big on locker, but you are right for once.

You're beginning to see the light.

Natedog24
02-21-2011, 08:18 PM
As someone who watches a lot of Pac 10 football I never really got all the Jake Locker love. People constantly used the talent or lack there of at his UW teams as an excuse for his inability to consistently throw the football. They were blinded by his freakish athleticism, that and the purple hype machine in Seattle was always working overtime to hype up what was the only bright spot of some just flat out terrible UW teams. It was only a matter of time before his actual lack of throwing ability caught up with him.

Now the Luck hype I get. I'll be shocked if he is anything other then an absolute stud at the next level. Not saying I want anything other then Tebow at QB for Denver, just setting the idiotic Luck/Locker comparisons straight.

Taco John
02-21-2011, 08:29 PM
The last thing that the Broncos need to do this offseason is re-invest in the QB position.

epicSocialism4tw
02-21-2011, 08:32 PM
As someone who watches a lot of Pac 10 football I never really got all the Jake Locker love. People constantly used the talent or lack there of at his UW teams as an excuse for his inability to consistently throw the football. They were blinded by his freakish athleticism, that and the purple hype machine in Seattle was always working overtime to hype up what was the only bright spot of some just flat out terrible UW teams. It was only a matter of time before his actual lack of throwing ability caught up with him.

Now the Luck hype I get. I'll be shocked if he is anything other then an absolute stud at the next level. Not saying I want anything other then Tebow at QB for Denver, just setting the idiotic Luck/Locker comparisons straight.

You sure set them straight alright. Uhh:loopy:

maven
02-21-2011, 08:32 PM
http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlesports/2009/06/24/could-jake-locker-be-john-elway-jr/

http://www.the3-4.com/2011/01/jake-locker-scouting-report.html

http://www.ncaatime.com/?p=3549

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/402012-how-jake-locker-can-become-a-seahawks-player


Those are a few. Several people here on this board argued with me over whether Locker was better than Sam Bradford, and they often used the "next Elway" label.

Two is the same article (blog), one is bleacher report, and one is a site I've never heard of.

NUB
02-21-2011, 08:34 PM
Lombardi really mailed that one in. That whole bit is practically a non-sequitur.

epicSocialism4tw
02-21-2011, 08:36 PM
Lombardi really mailed that one in. That whole bit is practically a non-sequitur.

I couldnt really find anything in there worth commenting on. He just made some speculation and threw some of his ideas out there.

misturanderson
02-21-2011, 08:39 PM
As someone who watches a lot of Pac 10 football I never really got all the Jake Locker love. People constantly used the talent or lack there of at his UW teams as an excuse for his inability to consistently throw the football. They were blinded by his freakish athleticism, that and the purple hype machine in Seattle was always working overtime to hype up what was the only bright spot of some just flat out terrible UW teams. It was only a matter of time before his actual lack of throwing ability caught up with him.

Now the Luck hype I get. I'll be shocked if he is anything other then an absolute stud at the next level. Not saying I want anything other then Tebow at QB for Denver, just setting the idiotic Luck/Locker comparisons straight.
So true. Locker was benefiting from a lack of an elite, uninjured prospect at QB with respects to his bloated draft value that was being thrown around last year. Much like Gabbert this year.

Locker was never going top 10. He may have gone top 15 had he come out last year just based on potential, but he would have shown how awful his accuracy is during his pro-day/combine workouts and would have fallen back to a more reasonable position.

I really don't see that happening with Luck.

TheReverend
02-21-2011, 08:40 PM
I couldnt really find anything in there worth commenting on. He just made some speculation and threw some of his ideas out there.

His ideas, lol. Posted this in the other thread on this topic:

Raiders first round picks while Lombardi worked as their Senior Personnel Executive:

99 Matt Stinchcomb
00 Janikowski
01 Derrick Gibson
02 Phillip Buchanon
02 Napoleon Harris
03 Asomougha
03 Tyler Brayton
04 Robert Gallery
05 Fabian Washington
06 Michael Huff
07 Jamarcus

Obviously the crypt keeper is to blame for a decent portion along with coaches input, but that is just an outstanding and unprecedented record of fail. He literally hit on 1 out of 11 first round picks (most of them high!).

Since that knob got fired, the Raiders have taken McFadden, Heyward Bey and McClain... 2/3 is significantly outperforming 1/11

lostknight
02-21-2011, 08:40 PM
Look, simple reality is that Elway has to put on the field a team that will win. Tebow's been squandered in this last year. He had no real QB coach, with Josh's little brother for a QB coach. Everyone said it wouldn't be a issue - that Josh was the QB. But Josh ended up focusing on saving his job, and his starters, not developing the future of the franchise. In many ways, Tebow with Josh is a perfect encapsulation of the McDaniels experience. Something absolutely brilliant, wasted by horrific execution.

I was opposed to Tebow starting, and while the Houston game made me rethink things - it was easily one of the best games since the Duke threw a football instead of tweets - I still think Tebow would be best served by sitting and learning. His potential is awesome. I just watched a NFL special on the top 10 lefty quarterbacks of all times. And Tebow was constantly mentioned in the special as a up and comer. I honestly believe that Tebow may end up being one of the all time great Quarterbacks, but the reality is that left throwing quarterbacks have issues that need to be worked on.

The way I would put it is this. In 2006, the Rockies brought up a huge crop of young talent. Generation-R. The season was a disappointment, but at the end of it, they brought up Tulo. Tulo ended up being the missing piece the next year, and it got a team that had finished fourth is the west to the world series. Tebow can be this team's Tulo, but they need give him time to develop. The rockies had to stick with Tulo through a horrific starting slump (like they later did with Cargo). Their patience paid off. Fans have to be patient with the Broncos, and Elway needs to be patient and let this team develop. That means keeping Kyle, if Kyle is willing to be kept.

Kyle Orton's stomped his feet about being benched, despite having two back to back games with passer ratings under 50, prior to his injury. Now he says that his expectation is that if he is back, he is the starter. Not he intends to compete. Not do what's best for the team. Starter or not here. From what I have heard Kyle has left town, and outside of a very brief call with John Fox, has not talked to the Broncos this offseason. Given that many other teams, the QBs are arranging "offseason workouts" during a supposed lockout, and we have heard nothing from Orton, I think he's pretty much written his own ticket out of town at this point. The Broncos are just trying to hide it, for the same reason as the nuggets just traded Carmelo for squat.

Do i take Lombardi seriously? No, not really. He of the "Josh McDaniels paid the price for the Broncos being insufficiently committed to change" headline clearly has one source, and it's McDaniels. Lombardi (as well as Peter King) have never been able to get over their Belichick worshiping, and as Belichick's chosen Sith underling, they both adored Josh. Mark my words, no matter what the Broncos do this offseason, both of them will have the Broncos ranked last in their first power rankings for next year.

misturanderson
02-21-2011, 08:40 PM
Two is the same article (blog), one is bleacher report, and one is a site I've never heard of.

And the fact that one is from this year does even more to prove how idiotic the person making the claim is.

Shananahan
02-21-2011, 09:16 PM
Tebow's been squandered in this last year. He had no real QB coach, with Josh's little brother for a QB coach. Everyone said it wouldn't be a issue - that Josh was the QB. But Josh ended up focusing on saving his job, and his starters, not developing the future of the franchise.
I don't know where you're getting this. Everything I read had McDaniels and his brother working extensively in on-on-one situations with Tebow every single day. There's a lot of things to complain about with McDaniels, but Tebow was his pet project. If anything, you contradict yourself by suggesting McDaniels focused on saving his job while ignoring Tebow. He most likely would have had a longer leash with Tebow under center.

Archer81
02-21-2011, 09:18 PM
I used to think Tebow would have been better served to sit and learn. In what he showed last season, I would prefer him to be the starter next year. He is different from other quarterbacks, he moves the ball when he needs to. The Broncos would be better served to develop the young offense they have in its entirety while adding talent and depth to the defense, rather than wasting yet another high pick at a position the team really does not have an overwhelming need for.

Just my .02.

:Broncos:

bombay
02-21-2011, 09:22 PM
i think elway,although he will not say it publicly, wants andrew luck in next yrs draft.

Let's hope so.

Kaylore
02-21-2011, 09:27 PM
His ideas, lol. Posted this in the other thread on this topic:

Raiders first round picks while Lombardi worked as their Senior Personnel Executive:

99 Matt Stinchcomb
00 Janikowski
01 Derrick Gibson
02 Phillip Buchanon
02 Napoleon Harris
03 Asomougha
03 Tyler Brayton
04 Robert Gallery
05 Fabian Washington
06 Michael Huff
07 Jamarcus

Obviously the crypt keeper is to blame for a decent portion along with coaches input, but that is just an outstanding and unprecedented record of fail. He literally hit on 1 out of 11 first round picks (most of them high!).

Since that knob got fired, the Raiders have taken McFadden, Heyward Bey and McClain... 2/3 is significantly outperforming 1/11
Well most of that was Al Davis.

Archer81
02-21-2011, 09:28 PM
Let's hope so.


Let's not.


:Broncos:

DarkHorse30
02-21-2011, 09:42 PM
i saw Orton play and i saw Tebow play and there was a night and day difference between the two. Orton is a serviceable game manager for the right team. this is not that team. Tebow is young and still has much to prove, but the guy has intangibles that Orton can't even begin to compete with.

...send Orton to Minnesota.

Agreed. There is a number of teams that need a starting QB, and Orton is a good starter.....but looking at how many points Tebow scored in his 3 games, you might argue that he has the ability to "manage" an offense to a win. But a 32nd ranked D isn't going to help him win a ton of games while he's learning the ropes.

Pick ALL defense in the draft and FA a TE, and a serviceable vet (non-injury type) RT.

epicSocialism4tw
02-21-2011, 09:56 PM
Agreed. There is a number of teams that need a starting QB, and Orton is a good starter.....but looking at how many points Tebow scored in his 3 games, you might argue that he has the ability to "manage" an offense to a win. But a 32nd ranked D isn't going to help him win a ton of games while he's learning the ropes.

Pick ALL defense in the draft and FA a TE, and a serviceable vet (non-injury type) RT.

I'm with this guy ^

broncocalijohn
02-21-2011, 09:57 PM
Lombardi really mailed that one in. That whole bit is practically a non-sequitur.


Funny how he states that people in the FO are backing away from Tebow. Who would that be and why would you back away from the player that gives many fans hope and the player proved he can do some outstanding things. If I was front office, I would be selling Tebow as a guy that can lead this team or at least get a shot to do so. Lombardi seems he has a major grudge and bashing Tebow in Denver is not going to help his cause. Time to get on board. If he fails, there are more hoping on his success than his failure. Lombardi must have gone to the go_broncos school of hate.

strafen
02-21-2011, 11:03 PM
Lombardi hasn't had anything good to say about Tebow since he came out of FLorida.

He like many others will be drinking the Kool aid before its all said and done.

Really...what the hell does he know anyway. How about naming a source idiot!Tebow is getting ready to be an impact QB in this league.
He's got to, and by doing so, the critics will be back tracking like maniacs.

I haven't seen any evidence that points to his critics.
They will be waiting for the ever-elusive smoking gun...

SouthStndJunkie
02-21-2011, 11:09 PM
They'll make up excuses then too.

Nope....they will start sucking his dick and act like they never questioned how good it tasted all along....metaphorically speaking.

Shananahan
02-21-2011, 11:18 PM
"I've always maintained that Tebow's dick tasted delicious! That's never been in question with me! The issue always was, 'Is he an NFL quarterback?'"

broncocalijohn
02-21-2011, 11:38 PM
"I've always maintained that Tebow's dick tasted delicious! That's never been in question with me! The issue always was, 'Is he an NFL quarterback?'"

Yes, but how would it looked tweeted?

cutthemdown
02-22-2011, 02:11 AM
If they want Tebow to play well next yr he needs more weapons. He needs better rbs, some TE who are more athletic in the passing game, and probably another WR. Not sure really if Brandon Lloyd the real deal.

TheReverend
02-22-2011, 05:23 AM
Well most of that was Al Davis.

Did you miss the part of the post where I say that or just wanted to repeat it? :P

dbfan21
02-22-2011, 05:36 AM
if this article is true and if Elway honestly believes that this Broncos team, as currently constituted, would win more games with Orton under center than Tebow, then i'd question Elway's ability to do the job he now has.

i saw Orton play and i saw Tebow play and there was a night and day difference between the two. Orton is a serviceable game manager for the right team. this is not that team. Tebow is young and still has much to prove, but the guy has intangibles that Orton can't even begin to compete with.

send Orton to Minnesota. he might be a good fit for them. get some quality defensive players in return. give Tebow a chance in 2011 (if there is no lockout) and then decide if he's got a future in Denver... but if Elway has already made up his mind that he's not, then i think Elway will turn out to be as bad a Bowlen hire as McD was.

I absolutely agree with this. I want to get a defensive player of solid value for Orton, let Tebow show us what he can do as the full-time starter, then decide if he is who we need as the QBOTF for this team.

I will take a year of development for Tebow and sacrifice a few wins in 2011. To me, it's worth it....and know with total certainty that I HATE to lose, but sometimes you have to know what tools are in your shed before you let the neighbor take them.

Kaylore
02-22-2011, 05:42 AM
Did you miss the part of the post where I say that or just wanted to repeat it? :P

I just think it's impossible to know how much Blame Lombardi shares in the draft. My personal opinion is looking at all those players who did their best work in their underwear in Indy, I tend to think that's 100% Al Davis. I know Al signs off on all personnel moves and thinks he's a draft guru. I think if you are looking for ways to criticize Lombardi, there are better ways of doing it. Like why was he ok taking a job where he basically just did what Al Davis told him for a decade? Or why after he left Oakland he had one job, one that he got largely just so Shanny could spite Al Davis, and then let go the next year and done nothing. THAT is more telling to me.

Dedhed
02-22-2011, 05:52 AM
Orton was lights out on 1st and 2nd down. I'll give you that. Orton was deer in the headlights on 3rd down.
And inept when trailing. In short, Orton was very good in situations where it's relatively easy to be very good. He was very bad in situations where it's more difficult to be very good.

TheReverend
02-22-2011, 06:23 AM
I just think it's impossible to know how much Blame Lombardi shares in the draft. My personal opinion is looking at all those players who did their best work in their underwear in Indy, I tend to think that's 100% Al Davis. I know Al signs off on all personnel moves and thinks he's a draft guru. I think if you are looking for ways to criticize Lombardi, there are better ways of doing it. Like why was he ok taking a job where he basically just did what Al Davis told him for a decade? Or why after he left Oakland he had one job, one that he got largely just so Shanny could spite Al Davis, and then let go the next year and done nothing. THAT is more telling to me.

He wasn't even paid in Denver to the best of my knowledge. He came in to do evaluations in exchange for learning under Mike and to spite Al.

BroncoMan4ever
02-22-2011, 06:46 AM
why are people shocked that Elway and Fox are in a wait and see stance regarding Tebow. he is very raw, and this season he is going to get his chance. In the NFL teams are always looking to get better at every position, and if at the end of the 2011 season neither Tebow or Orton have solidified themselves as the QB for the next 10 years, then Elway and Fox are going to go out and get the guy they think can be the man for the next decade

that is the way of the NFL, do your job or someone else will take your job.

Ray Finkle
02-22-2011, 06:58 AM
He wasn't even paid in Denver to the best of my knowledge. He came in to do evaluations in exchange for learning under Mike and to spite Al.

he tried to force his way in....when Mike went preferred the Goodman's he moved on.


Here is the thing to know about Lombardi. He had a man crush on Bellicheck and he never hired him again after Cleveland. He hitched his wagon to McD and now will bash Denver and praise McD in hopes to be hired at his next stop....

Kaylore
02-22-2011, 08:21 AM
He wasn't even paid in Denver to the best of my knowledge. He came in to do evaluations in exchange for learning under Mike and to spite Al.

Exactly. He worked for us on Davis' dime. I'm pretty sure if he wasn't burning off the last year of his contract he wouldn't have even been here. Shanny just figured it was worth it to have Lombardi sit in an office for a year for free if it pissed off Al. ROFL!

TheReverend
02-22-2011, 08:49 AM
he tried to force his way in....when Mike went preferred the Goodman's he moved on.


Here is the thing to know about Lombardi. He had a man crush on Bellicheck and he never hired him again after Cleveland. He hitched his wagon to McD and now will bash Denver and praise McD in hopes to be hired at his next stop....

Exactly! He also had an axe to grind with Mike after being shunned for being an idiot. He's really just repeating his own cycle of lashing out in jealousy.

Exactly. He worked for us on Davis' dime. I'm pretty sure if he wasn't burning off the last year of his contract he wouldn't have even been here. Shanny just figured it was worth it to have Lombardi sit in an office for a year for free if it pissed of Al. ROFL!

Haha, yeah I have a very hard time taking this knob seriously.

lostknight
02-22-2011, 08:50 AM
And inept when trailing. In short, Orton was very good in situations where it's relatively easy to be very good. He was very bad in situations where it's more difficult to be very good.

To be fair, Tebow's the opposite. Tebow was bad in situations where it is relatively easy to be good, and great in situations where it's difficult to be good.

Gort
02-22-2011, 08:57 AM
To be fair, Tebow's the opposite. Tebow was bad in situations where it is relatively easy to be good, and great in situations where it's difficult to be good.

what?

he was a rookie on a very bad 3-10 team when finally given a chance to start/play. when was he bad in a situation when it was easy to be good? i must have missed those downs.

when Orton got to the redzone, we couldn't get the ball into the endzone. when McD finally relented and brought Tebow in for something he's actually proven himself to be good at doing (and i don't mean that wild tebow formation that McD would call the first time we had 3rd down in the game and then abandon after it only gained 2 yards because everybody in the stadium knew what was going to happen) he went in there and did what he was supposed to do... score TDs!

i don't understand the criticism of Tebow by anybody who actually watched him play. he exceeded all expectations. once again... as a rookie who basically had to watch from the bench for the first 13 games (with the exception of coming in for occassional plays), how in the world can anyone summarily decide that he has no future in Denver? i really don't get it.

epicSocialism4tw
02-22-2011, 09:56 AM
why are people shocked that Elway and Fox are in a wait and see stance regarding Tebow. he is very raw, and this season he is going to get his chance. In the NFL teams are always looking to get better at every position, and if at the end of the 2011 season neither Tebow or Orton have solidified themselves as the QB for the next 10 years, then Elway and Fox are going to go out and get the guy they think can be the man for the next decade

that is the way of the NFL, do your job or someone else will take your job.

I dont trust the article, so the idea that "Elway and Fox are in a wait and see stance regarding Tebow" isn't affirmed for me at all by Lombardi.

Lombardi is the same guy that trashed Elway. It appears as though he's using his public sounding board as a means to cause controversy. He knows that Denver fans as a whole have bought in to Tebow after seeing him play. He's just trying to put the fans at odds with management.

bendog
02-22-2011, 09:59 AM
Exactly! He also had an axe to grind with Mike after being shunned for being an idiot. He's really just repeating his own cycle of lashing out in jealousy.



Haha, yeah I have a very hard time taking this knob seriously.

The question is whether people link Mike Lombardi **** for amusement factors or thinking that the **** he writes has any validity beyond his own personal vendetta/agenda.

lostknight
02-22-2011, 10:14 AM
he was a rookie on a very bad 3-10 team when finally given a chance to start/play. when was he bad in a situation when it was easy to be good? i must have missed those downs.


Most of the time, QB's have issues between inside the twenties. Tebow has problems executing between the twenties instead, which is typically simplier. Tebow still has to work on short dumps to his right, which he was underthrowing, and like all lefties, has a propensity to airmail it if his footwork isn't perfect.

That's not new, and I am not saying that it's unexpected from a rookie, But it is a issue Tebow needs to work on.

Look, don't take this as a trashing on Tebow. I am already on record saying that I think that Tebow will in the Steve Young tier of quarterbacks. Football is a game of intangiables, and he has that nailed. But before the intangiables count, you gotta execute down the field. That he still needs help with.

lostknight
02-22-2011, 10:18 AM
I dont trust the article, so the idea that "Elway and Fox are in a wait and see stance regarding Tebow" isn't affirmed for me at all by Lombardi.

I think there has been enough consistent criticism aimed at Tebow by our front office to think that Elway isn't sold on him. I think that's fair - the Rockies took a bath in 2006 when they went to a youth movement with Generation-R. Fans gave them a beating. Even now, fans still use curse words to describe arguably some of the best in the business in the Rockies FO - O'Dowd and the Montfords. In 2007 that team went to the World Series.

The trick is that the organization has to be sold out on the players. This front office isn't.


Lombardi is the same guy that trashed Elway. It appears as though he's using his public sounding board as a means to cause controversy.

Tebow is business. Trashing him, or praising him makes money.

Steve Sewell
02-22-2011, 10:22 AM
I don't know where you're getting this. Everything I read had McDaniels and his brother working extensively in on-on-one situations with Tebow every single day. There's a lot of things to complain about with McDaniels, but Tebow was his pet project. If anything, you contradict yourself by suggesting McDaniels focused on saving his job while ignoring Tebow. He most likely would have had a longer leash with Tebow under center.

Generally, lostknight's posts are written in a "matter of fact" style when most of the information contained in them is either a) total speculation and/or b) completely false. In general, he likes to act like he knows a lot about pro football when in fact he knows very little. I wouldn't take anything he says very seriously.

Rohirrim
02-22-2011, 10:33 AM
If we trade Orton and start the season with Tebow and Quinn, I just hope Timmy can stay healthy. The alternative is too ugly to contemplate.

bendog
02-22-2011, 10:36 AM
If Tebow doesn't look good, Quinn gives us a shot in the Luck sweepstakes.

underrated29
02-22-2011, 10:46 AM
If Tebow doesn't look good, Quinn gives us a shot in the Luck sweepstakes.



And that scares the HELL out of me!!

lostknight
02-22-2011, 10:54 AM
I don't know where you're getting this. Everything I read had McDaniels and his brother working extensively in on-on-one situations with Tebow every single day.


Per Dave Logan (IIRC), Tebow was not getting any sort of regular snaps in practice beyond the "swamp packages" after TC. McDaniel's blueprint changed dramatically according to Peter King. He was intending on going very Tebow heavy in that first game, but changed his plans quickly.

I was pretty shocked when I heard that, it didn't jive with with the impression the organization wanted to spread around, but it does explain exactly why McDaniels refused to play Tebow.


There's a lot of things to complain about with McDaniels, but Tebow was his pet project.


McDaniels grabbed Tebow when they were trying trade Orton. McDaniel's interest in Tebow waned in considerably after Orton started performing this year.


If anything, you contradict yourself by suggesting McDaniels focused on saving his job while ignoring Tebow. He most likely would have had a longer leash with Tebow under center.

McDaniels didn't put Tebow in is because he didn't think Tebow was ready, and wasn't willing to commit the resources to make Tebow ready. That's not to say that Tebow wasn't the true number two quarterback, but that McDaniels was too busy bailing the ship out with the bucket he had, to grab the bucket he thought had too many holes in it.

Everyone speculated that McDaniels was going "all-in" on Tebow, that he was staking it all on number 15. In reality, he didn't even survive long enough for number 15 to matter.

It's obvious that this organization isn't sold on Tebow. Everyone keeps on jumping up and down to disclaim stories in the media, or John Elway's latest Tebow-buster, the facts are not there to justify this opinion.

*WARHORSE*
02-22-2011, 11:32 AM
Tim Tebow is the best redzone threat in the NFL bar none.



None.


When Kyle Orton can come into the redzone 6 times and come away with one touchdown, Id rather have Tebow come in 4 times and come away with three TDs and a fieldgoal.


Major difference.


Tebows rating at 3rd and 11yards plus was 150+.


At 3rd and 6+ he was 120+.


Excluding plays where Tebow handed the ball off to a runningback, he had I believe 115 plays from scrimmage. He scored a touchdown on those plays once every 10 downs.


This is a guy who got NO REPS with the ones during the season until McD was fired.


Even if you look at how Tebow played in the preseason when he was getting equal reps, he played much better in the passing game.


He looked shaky when he was playing Oakland, and they dialed the playcalling way down, just to get his feet wet.


Tebow is the answer vs Orton.


Just ask Brandon Lloyd.


In an interview at the probowl, he said Tebow is the real deal and is going to have a great season.

He ALSO said that Kyle had a great year, and that there are alot of teams out there that need a QB. He said "Wherever Kyle ends up, Im sure he'll do great"


So as far as distancing themselves from the pick, tell Lombardi to eat a cactus followed by some exlax and coconut milk.

*WARHORSE*
02-22-2011, 11:42 AM
It's obvious that this organization isn't sold on Tebow. Everyone keeps on jumping up and down to disclaim stories in the media, or John Elway's latest Tebow-buster, the facts are not there to justify this opinion.


Im thinking youre referring to Elway saying that if the season started today that Orton would be the starter.


Honestly, it would be ignorant for him to say anything other than that.


Orton is a trade commodity. To say different would lower his leverage in a trade scenario.

Tebow needs to earn his position. To say Tebow was the starter would be a mistake. Tebow doesnt need any quarter given when it comes to earning his spot under center, and Elway is going to keep it that way, along with Fox.



Im lovin that Orton had some good tape. All you need is a team like the Vikings looking at Kyle and saying, "Wow. Kyle had absolutely NO running game to take off pressure, and he was still outstanding in the playaction game.....imagine if he had Adrian running behind him!"


I'll take your second round pick please.

Shananahan
02-22-2011, 12:19 PM
Per Dave Logan (IIRC), Tebow was not getting any sort of regular snaps in practice beyond the "swamp packages" after TC. McDaniel's blueprint changed dramatically according to Peter King. He was intending on going very Tebow heavy in that first game, but changed his plans quickly.
Seems like a lot of speculation by you and others. I never saw anything that said McDaniels was wanting to start Tebow early on or play him more than Orton, so it makes sense that he wouldn't be taking first team snaps. Tebow spent time every day at every practice with both Josh and Ben McDaniels and they worked on throwing the football, making reads, etc. The little things. Taking snaps isn't a very good indicator, as he was always going to be a down-the-road starter.

McDaniels grabbed Tebow when they were trying trade Orton. McDaniel's interest in Tebow waned in considerably after Orton started performing this year.
It's possible I missed something, but I don't have a clue what you're talking about. When was McDaniels trying to trade Orton last year? To who and for what? And if his interest waned considerably as Orton continued to progress and play well, why did Tebow's playing time increase week by week, especially in the most important part of the field?

McDaniels didn't put Tebow in is because he didn't think Tebow was ready, and wasn't willing to commit the resources to make Tebow ready.
I suppose you could apply this logic to every coach in the league about every player they aren't starting. Pretty silly, really.

Everyone speculated that McDaniels was going "all-in" on Tebow, that he was staking it all on number 15.
Are you making this up as you go along? I was going to respond to the rest of your post but I feel like I'm wasting my time for some reason.

lostknight
02-22-2011, 12:37 PM
Seems like a lot of speculation by you and others.


McDaniels trying to trade Orton was reported after McDaniels's departure. This was reported during a rash of stories all trying to make Xanders look good, and keep him onboard as GM. It was reported here, as well as on 104.3.


Tebow spent time every day at every practice with both Josh and Ben McDaniels and they worked on throwing the football, making reads, etc. The little things. Taking snaps isn't a very good indicator, as he was always going to be a down-the-road starter.


I pointed out widely that Ben McDaniels had not a wit of NFL QB coaching experience, or for that matter any sort of NFL coaching experience. The response from the McDanielistas was always that Josh was the real QB coach, not Ben. Now you have Dave Logan saying that Tebow wasn't getting reps. It's not surprising that as the season went to hell, McDaniels would start thinking about how to fix what was wrong - that's his job. Orton wasn't the problem (and he sure as hell wasn't the solution). Tebow wasn't going to fix what was wrong this team.


It's possible I missed something, but I don't have a clue what you're talking about. When was McDaniels trying to trade Orton last year?


McDaniels evidently was trying to trade Kyle Orton post-draft, with a eye to making Brady the starter, and Tebow a understudy. He was talked out of it by "others at Dove Valley" which probably means Xanders or Ellis. (It was leaked during the Xanders PR exercise). It was in the sometime as the infamous "McDaniels made trades without Xanders knowledge" leak.


To who and for what? And if his interest waned considerably as Orton continued to progress and play well, why did Tebow's playing time increase week by week, especially in the most important part of the field?


It didn't actually. It was pretty erratic the entire season. Tebow certainly didn't play in the junk time in either the Oakland or KC games.

Are you making this up as you go along? I was going to respond to the rest of your post but I feel like I'm wasting my time for some reason.

I've cited my sources above. You can use this little thing called "the search function" to find out more about the Orton trade. Please drop the personal attacks. Josh is gone, and there is no reason to revert to the putrid cessbowl this place was during the height of the McDaniel's reign.

Edit: The search function is broken on orangemene. I will dig up a refernece for you.

Shananahan
02-22-2011, 01:23 PM
Well I guess I stand corrected, sorry. I'd never heard anything about the attempted trading of Orton.

BroncoMan4ever
02-22-2011, 01:27 PM
I dont trust the article, so the idea that "Elway and Fox are in a wait and see stance regarding Tebow" isn't affirmed for me at all by Lombardi.

Lombardi is the same guy that trashed Elway. It appears as though he's using his public sounding board as a means to cause controversy. He knows that Denver fans as a whole have bought in to Tebow after seeing him play. He's just trying to put the fans at odds with management.

i can see that too. it just surprises me that a lot of fans are shocked that the higher ups in the organization aren't sure about him yet. after a 4-12 season in which he wasn't allowed onto the field until injury hit Orton and the franchise needed a spark to keep fans in the stands, they couldn't be sure about him or just about anyone else on the team.

lostknight
02-22-2011, 01:34 PM
Well I guess I stand corrected, sorry. I'd never heard anything about the attempted trading of Orton.

Here is the link:
http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_16895359

It's a strange strange story. I still don't know the genesis of it, but it definitely sounds like the McDaniel's-Orton front was dicey - described as seething at times.

Kyle Orton is in the situation he is in, because he signed a one year extension. I would certainly prefer to keep Kyle rather then trade him, but there is also no question in my mind that Tebow can be the future of this team.

I also take Elway and everyone else 's statements about Tebow not being ready in the organization's eyes. If they want to keep Orton around as support, that's okay. But they are risking serious long term damage to the organization no matter which direction they go in.

I really honestly believe that Josh just ran out of time more then anything else, and I still think the Broncos are quite willing to throw the Baby (Tebow) out with the bath-water (McDaniels).

bronco militia
02-22-2011, 01:56 PM
Here is the link:
http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_16895359

It's a strange strange story. I still don't know the genesis of it, but it definitely sounds like the McDaniel's-Orton front was dicey - described as seething at times.

Kyle Orton is in the situation he is in, because he signed a one year extension. I would certainly prefer to keep Kyle rather then trade him, but there is also no question in my mind that Tebow can be the future of this team.

I also take Elway and everyone else 's statements about Tebow not being ready in the organization's eyes. If they want to keep Orton around as support, that's okay. But they are risking serious long term damage to the organization no matter which direction they go in.

I really honestly believe that Josh just ran out of time more then anything else, and I still think the Broncos are quite willing to throw the Baby (Tebow) out with the bath-water (McDaniels).

wow! Totally missed this article a month ago.

I guess I was right about Orton and quinn after all.:D

Too bad mcdummy didn;t start the rookie sooner :welcome:

bendog
02-22-2011, 01:57 PM
wow! Totally missed this article a month ago.

I guess I was right about Orton and quinn after all.:D

Too bad mcdummy didn;t start the rookie sooner :welcome:

But I think McD wanted to try Quinn first! Let's just hope he gets some personel say in his new gig.

lostknight
02-22-2011, 02:03 PM
But I think McD wanted to try Quinn first! Let's just hope he gets some personel say in his new gig.

The rams fans are already worried about Josh not meeting yet with Bradford. I've avoided the temptation to go over there and post "no matter how bad you think it is, it's worse with McDaniels."

bendog
02-22-2011, 02:09 PM
The rams fans are already worried about Josh not meeting yet with Bradford. I've avoided the temptation to go over there and post "no matter how bad you think it is, it's worse with McDaniels."

you got me to google up Paige's column on McD wanting to trade Orton last spring. I'd recalled hearing something about it, but what I'd recalled was McD blowing crap about "Orton's our QB, there's nothing to the story......" It appears to have been a real plan ... at least in McD's mind. We'd have the no 1 pick, so in a way it's maybe a pity. (-:

2KBack
02-22-2011, 02:10 PM
The rams fans are already worried about Josh not meeting yet with Bradford. I've avoided the temptation to go over there and post "no matter how bad you think it is, it's worse with McDaniels."

Are they even allowed to meet right now?

bendog
02-22-2011, 02:26 PM
It appears they were at least until the cba expired.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/24508/kyle-orton-remains-unsure-of-his-future

BroncoMan4ever
02-22-2011, 02:32 PM
If Tebow doesn't look good, Quinn gives us a shot in the Luck sweepstakes.

is it guaranteed that Luck will still be a top pick next year?

look at Leinart, would have been the undisputed number 1 pick had he come out a year sooner.

Locker, had a shot at number 1 overall or at least top 10 had he come out early, stayed a year and he isn't even seen as a possibility in the top 10.

with the draft being a situation where every year a new unheard of the previous year stud is suddenly the new "IT" guy it can be assumed that more than likely Luck won't be the number 1 overall pick next year.

so with that in mind, we might not need to be a bottom feeder to have a shot at him in the 1st round next year if QB is the route the team needs to take in the draft.

bendog
02-22-2011, 02:41 PM
Locker was nowhere in Luck's territory. Neither was Linehart. Maybe matthew stafford, maybe carson palmer. But I was pretty much joking. Still, from what I've seen, Stanford may not have as good a team next year. Three new offensive linemen. I will be surprised if Luck is not one of the top 3 picks if not no 1 overall.

TheChamp24
02-22-2011, 03:52 PM
Tebow has that drive and relentlessness that we all saw in John Elway. If the defense didn't screw it up, you knew you had a chance with Elway. I sort of think Tebow may be sort of similar in that we will always be in games with Tebow and he has the ability to be a 4th quarter star like Elway was.
I am NOT comparing Tebow to Elway and suggesting he will be a future HOFer, just that he has the talent and ability to be a really good 4th quarter QB.

WABronco
02-22-2011, 04:05 PM
is it guaranteed that Luck will still be a top pick next year?

look at Leinart, would have been the undisputed number 1 pick had he come out a year sooner.

Locker, had a shot at number 1 overall or at least top 10 had he come out early, stayed a year and he isn't even seen as a possibility in the top 10.

with the draft being a situation where every year a new unheard of the previous year stud is suddenly the new "IT" guy it can be assumed that more than likely Luck won't be the number 1 overall pick next year.

so with that in mind, we might not need to be a bottom feeder to have a shot at him in the 1st round next year if QB is the route the team needs to take in the draft.

That same line of thought is regurgitated over and over, especially up here.

Jake Locker has always been like this. He didn't regress. I think the draft process would've sorted all that out, just like it has now.

Anyways...

broncogary
02-22-2011, 04:15 PM
That same line of thought is regurgitated over and over, especially up here.

Jake Locker has always been like this. He didn't regress. I think the draft process would've sorted all that out, just like it has now.

Anyways...

Oh, you mean Jake Locker would have been Aaron Rodgers. 8')

lostknight
02-22-2011, 04:17 PM
I think Luck's going to have a hard time this year, and won't be the consensus number one next year.

MacGruder
02-22-2011, 05:54 PM
Anyone that says Locker wasn't highly rated doesn't know what they are talking about.. he was raved about just as much if not more than Luck and for a much longer time. People weren't even talking about Luck as a world beater until last year... just like cam Newton.

Put Luck in the SEC like Tebow without the ideal team around him and he is going to get exposed. ANYONE could look good playing the defenses Luck and Locker played.

If Tebow had come out of there he'd be more overrated than Luck even with his mechanical issues. How is it that Luck even had to run against soft PAC10 defenses? Same with Locker? Tebow running in the SEC makes a lot more sense than that. Yet those guys aren't knocked for it and Tebow is? It makes zero sense.

TheChamp24
02-23-2011, 06:17 AM
Anyone that says Locker wasn't highly rated doesn't know what they are talking about.. he was raved about just as much if not more than Luck and for a much longer time. People weren't even talking about Luck as a world beater until last year... just like cam Newton.

Put Luck in the SEC like Tebow without the ideal team around him and he is going to get exposed. ANYONE could look good playing the defenses Luck and Locker played.

If Tebow had come out of there he'd be more overrated than Luck even with his mechanical issues. How is it that Luck even had to run against soft PAC10 defenses? Same with Locker? Tebow running in the SEC makes a lot more sense than that. Yet those guys aren't knocked for it and Tebow is? It makes zero sense.

Luck was still highly touted after his Sophomore season. People saw a lot of good things in him and at that point was graded as a 1st round pick. Then he tore it up last year. So all this about how nobody talked about Luck is FALSE.

Put Luck in the SEC and he will still show he is a great QB prospect. All this hate on Luck is unwarranted.

And besides Locker was highly ranked and some numskulls had him ahead of Bradford last year before he decided to return. Locker never really showed anything in Washington to be a top 10 pick, let alone a 1st rounder to me.

lostknight
02-23-2011, 08:06 AM
Luck was still highly touted after his Sophomore season. People saw a lot of good things in him and at that point was graded as a 1st round pick. Then he tore it up last year. So all this about how nobody talked about Luck is FALSE.


He was talked about, but not as a top five draft pick. As someone to have the potential of being a top five draft pick eventually.

Put Luck in the SEC and he will still show he is a great QB prospect. All this hate on Luck is unwarranted.


Questioning someone doesn't mean hating on them. Luck is going to have problems without Harbaugh in there.

bendog
02-23-2011, 08:13 AM
Luck was seen at the best qb prospect in a decade after his sophmore season. Jesus.

epicSocialism4tw
02-23-2011, 09:00 AM
Luck was seen at the best qb prospect in a decade after his sophmore season. Jesus.

By some.

There were also morons who didnt think that Sam Bradford could play in the NFL. Even after he had a private workout for the ages.

boppool
02-23-2011, 10:28 AM
Michael Lombardi is anti-Christ.

HAT
02-23-2011, 10:59 AM
I think Luck's going to have a hard time this year, and won't be the consensus number one next year.

It'll be a coin flip between him and Barkley.

HAT
02-23-2011, 11:00 AM
Anyone that says Locker wasn't highly rated doesn't know what they are talking about.. he was raved about just as much if not more than Luck and for a much longer time. People weren't even talking about Luck as a world beater until last year... just like cam Newton.

Put Luck in the SEC like Tebow without the ideal team around him and he is going to get exposed. ANYONE could look good playing the defenses Luck and Locker played.

If Tebow had come out of there he'd be more overrated than Luck even with his mechanical issues. How is it that Luck even had to run against soft PAC10 defenses? Same with Locker? Tebow running in the SEC makes a lot more sense than that. Yet those guys aren't knocked for it and Tebow is? It makes zero sense.

PAC 10 offenses make PAC10 defenses look bad....Not the other way around. :wave:

BroncoMan4ever
02-23-2011, 11:05 AM
By some.

There were also morons who didnt think that Sam Bradford could play in the NFL. Even after he had a private workout for the ages.

i admit, i was in that group. though my doubts on Bradford were his shoulder and my thinking he might be too fragile to last in the NFL, not him having a lack of talent to play in the NFL

Play2win
02-23-2011, 11:10 AM
Michael Lombardi is anti-Christ.

I think the Internet is the anti-christ.

BroncoMan4ever
02-23-2011, 11:11 AM
That same line of thought is regurgitated over and over, especially up here.

Jake Locker has always been like this. He didn't regress. I think the draft process would've sorted all that out, just like it has now.

Anyways...

i'm not saying he regressed, i am saying every year hype builds for some new guys. every year there is a new guy who starts tearing up NCAA football who begins to get talk as a potential number 1 overall.

it is well documented of guys who would have been #1 overall that decide to return to college ball for another year, usually never remain as number 1 overall the next year.

think about if a guy like Barkley at USC has a big year, and Luck with 3 new starters on the line, a new coaching staff has only an ok year or he gets hurt. Barkley could easily move ahead of Luck on many teams draft boards.

broncogary
02-23-2011, 01:05 PM
i'm not saying he regressed, i am saying every year hype builds for some new guys. every year there is a new guy who starts tearing up NCAA football who begins to get talk as a potential number 1 overall.

it is well documented of guys who would have been #1 overall that decide to return to college ball for another year, usually never remain as number 1 overall the next year.

think about if a guy like Barkley at USC has a big year, and Luck with 3 new starters on the line, a new coaching staff has only an ok year or he gets hurt. Barkley could easily move ahead of Luck on many teams draft boards.

Like Frank Okam a few years ago. He was supposed to be a sure first rounder as a junior and then as a senior played his way down to the fifth round. He barely makes the Texans roster each year.

Bronco Yoda
02-24-2011, 05:25 AM
Lombardi throwing pooh against the wall.

MacGruder
02-24-2011, 10:30 AM
PAC 10 offenses make PAC10 defenses look bad....Not the other way around. :wave:

Right.. because the SEC can't get talent.. and the PAC10 can.. right? lol

We saw what happened to a pac10 offense when it faced Auburn's defense...

Oregon put up 50 on every team in the PAC10 and couldn't score to save their life against an SEC D.

Sam exact thing happened to Sam Bradford going from the BIG12 to an SEC D.