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Butterscotch Stallion
02-21-2011, 11:50 AM
What kind of crazy-ass world are we living in when a boy is asked to wrestle a girl!

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20110217/SPORTS0810/110217008/Wrestler-decides-not-face-female-opponent?odyssey=mod|mostview

SouthStndJunkie
02-21-2011, 11:53 AM
I'd have no problem wrestling a girl in the same situation.

schaaf
02-21-2011, 11:57 AM
This happened to my best friend.

He went out and purposely lost the match because he didn't feel that it was right.

How can a society teach boys from the time they are born it is wrong to hit, grab, or slap women and then simply "allow" them to get into a competitive wrestling match. Women are allowed to play any sport a man plays and wrestling shouldn't be one of those sports.

SouthStndJunkie
02-21-2011, 12:00 PM
I don't see what the big deal is....I would have wrestled her and tried to take her down, just as I would have any other opponent.

Tombstone RJ
02-21-2011, 12:01 PM
What kind of crazy-ass world are we living in when a boy is asked to wrestle a girl!

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20110217/SPORTS0810/110217008/Wrestler-decides-not-face-female-opponent?odyssey=mod|mostview

ah yes, another victory for the feminist movement. cheers ladies, cheers. Thank God, this young man has a much better grasp or reality than 99% of the women in this country.

You've come a long way baby, congrats on being the ultimate of hypocrits.

Tombstone RJ
02-21-2011, 12:03 PM
This happened to my best friend.

He went out and purposely lost the match because he didn't feel that it was right.

How can a society teach boys from the time they are born it is wrong to hit, grab, or slap women and then simply "allow" them to get into a competitive wrestling match. Women are allowed to play any sport a man plays and wrestling shouldn't be one of those sports.

The modern women, she's confused about who she is and who a man is. Then she wonders why here husband has no backbone and no leadership skills and takes no pride in his family.

Go figure.

cutthemdown
02-21-2011, 12:08 PM
He should have tried to hurt her so they won't let girls wrestle anymore. LOL j/k

Wes Mantooth
02-21-2011, 12:10 PM
I also had a friend who refused to wrestle a girl. His point was you can't win. If you beat her, you "beat a girl". If you loose, you will never live it down.

alkemical
02-21-2011, 12:12 PM
I think this was a "King of the Hill" episode.

McDman
02-21-2011, 12:16 PM
I'd wrestle her just to "accidentally" grab some boob, giggity.

Pick Six
02-21-2011, 12:19 PM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RY3oRVzjSIg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TheReverend
02-21-2011, 12:20 PM
This is brand new news.

Brb making a thread because I just heard Egypt is rioting.

ohiobronco2
02-21-2011, 12:26 PM
I had to wrestle a girl in high school. I was nervous all week. If you win, you just beat a girl, if you lose, you will never hear the end of it. Really a no win situation. Of course I won. :D

vancejohnson82
02-21-2011, 12:30 PM
I wrestled two girls during my high school career. Ended both matches quickly and showed respect for my opponent.

The kid should have gone out there and participated in the sport he signed up for.

Blart
02-21-2011, 12:42 PM
I wrestled two girls during my high school career. Ended both matches quickly and showed respect for my opponent.

The kid should have gone out there and participated in the sport he signed up for.

Exactly.

This boy is the new Cap Anson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_Anson#Racial_intolerance). What a coward.


Also,

As a matter of conscience and my faith, I do not believe that it is appropriate for a boy to engage a girl in this manner.

His faith?! What is he, an Orthodox Jew? Son, I'm pretty sure your baptist faith has rules against you getting sweaty on the floor with the same gender, among other Grecian pastimes.

Tombstone RJ
02-21-2011, 12:45 PM
Exactly.

This boy is the new Cap Anson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_Anson#Racial_intolerance). What a coward.

Actually, he what he did was much braver. After all, you are calling him a coward. Ain't that ironic coming from captain blood fart.

Archer81
02-21-2011, 12:57 PM
Exactly.

This boy is the new Cap Anson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_Anson#Racial_intolerance). What a coward.


Also,



His faith?! What is he, an Orthodox Jew? Son, I'm pretty sure your baptist faith has rules against you getting sweaty on the floor with the same gender, among other Grecian pastimes.


He's not a coward. He didnt want to wrestle a girl, it was his decision to make. If his decision was informed by his faith, who are you to judge him for it?

Relax.

:Broncos:

HAT
02-21-2011, 12:58 PM
I wrestled two girls during my high school career. Ended both matches quickly and showed respect for my opponent.

The kid should have gone out there and participated in the sport he signed up for.

Yup....Weight class is the great equalizer. I could see not wanting to box a chick but I don't see any problem with co-ed wrestling.

mkporter
02-21-2011, 01:07 PM
What kind of crazy-ass world are we living in when a boy is asked to wrestle a girl!

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20110217/SPORTS0810/110217008/Wrestler-decides-not-face-female-opponent?odyssey=mod|mostview


OMG! Pretty soon they'll want to vote too! This kid isn't a hero, and he isn't a coward either. If a woman wants to compete, and accepts that she doesn't get preferential treatment, then I'm all for it. Being an advocate for strong women doesn't mean you can't be a strong man.

And btw, 100 post rule.

vancejohnson82
02-21-2011, 01:09 PM
He's not a coward. He didnt want to wrestle a girl, it was his decision to make. If his decision was informed by his faith, who are you to judge him for it?

Relax.

:Broncos:

I'm not calling him a coward or judging him at all. He is allowed to do whatever he wants.

In my opinion its a bit of a cop-out though. The girls made it to states which means she was handling herself on a competetive level very well all year.

epicSocialism4tw
02-21-2011, 01:13 PM
OMG! Pretty soon they'll want to vote too! This kid isn't a hero, and he isn't a coward either. If a woman wants to compete, and accepts that she doesn't get preferential treatment, then I'm all for it. Being an advocate for strong women doesn't mean you can't be a strong man.

And btw, 100 post rule.

He certainly is a hero.

Kudos to him for being a chivalrous young man, and not letting politically correct social pressures bend his sense of what it is to be a man.

vancejohnson82
02-21-2011, 01:16 PM
He certainly is a hero.

Kudos to him for being a chivalrous young man, and not letting politically correct social pressures bend his sense of what it is to be a man.

hahaha.....i don't think he's a coward but saying that he is upholding some moral order is going a little far

Blart
02-21-2011, 01:21 PM
The "he's following his faith" and "what a hero!" are the same excuses racists tried to use.


http://www.fanhouse.com/2011/02/18/boy-who-refused-to-wrestle-a-girl-might-end-up-wrestling-history/

For centuries, many a minister thundered from pulpits throughout America about how slavery, segregation and the Jim Crow laws were blessed by God and justified by scripture. Many who were against the civil rights movement rationalized it with their belief systems about blacks mixing with them in any public settings -- not to mention (horrors!) marriage. Yes, churches preached about the sin of marriage between certain kinds of people and led the fight against it.
....
Those include, by the way, the idea that women shouldn't participate in sports at all, often backed by lengthy scientific and sociological studies -- and, for example, by Boston Marathon officials who chased women runners off the course. That happened in the late 1960s, and those officials also knew they were absolutely right.

The fact is, unless he's an Orthodox Jew, there is no part of his religion that says he can't play sports with women. Though I'm pretty sure we could read Leviticus in a way that would condemn all same-sex wrestlers.

TheReverend
02-21-2011, 01:21 PM
I'm not calling him a coward or judging him at all. He is allowed to do whatever he wants.

In my opinion its a bit of a cop-out though. The girls made it to states which means she was handling herself on a competetive level very well all year.

In Iowa, no less. That place is a breeding ground for great wrestlers.

His decision to make, but I would've been happy the seeding gave me a first round bye :)

epicSocialism4tw
02-21-2011, 01:22 PM
hahaha.....i don't think he's a coward but saying that he is upholding some moral order is going a little far

Chivalry is not a moral order. Its a set of ethical values that elevates women to a high standard, and requires that a man put her before himself.

The best in this young man came out when he was under pressure. That's quite impressive.

mkporter
02-21-2011, 01:22 PM
He certainly is a hero.

Kudos to him for being a chivalrous young man, and not letting politically correct social pressures bend his sense of what it is to be a man.

I got nothing against the kid, but this isn't about being politically correct. This is about being correct. Female wrestlers aren't getting any special rules, so where's the problem? Not every woman should have to conform to antiquated, conservative, religious standards on what they should be allowed to do. He isn't any more heroic than all of the young women who are out there competing as wrestlers.

Kaylore
02-21-2011, 01:23 PM
I would have watched Vision Quest first and then decided.

vancejohnson82
02-21-2011, 01:24 PM
In Iowa, no less. That place is a breeding ground for great wrestlers.

His decision to make, but I would've been happy the seeding gave me a first round bye :)

yea, it sucked when i had to wrestle the girls because they came into the matches with awful records....so it was kind of a no win for me. I think there was a small part of this kid's psyche that thought he might lose.

Again, his decision to make but it's a crappy way to end your wrestling season (although I think they do wrestlebacks in Iowa)

epicSocialism4tw
02-21-2011, 01:24 PM
I got nothing against the kid, but this isn't about being politically correct. This is about being correct. Female wrestlers aren't getting any special rules, so where's the problem? Not every woman should have to conform to antiquated, conservative, religious standards on what they should be allowed to do. He isn't any more heroic than all of the young women who are out there competing as wrestlers.

He proved that his set of values are far superior than those who organized the event,

vancejohnson82
02-21-2011, 01:26 PM
He proved that his set of values are far superior than those who organized the event,

care to explain a little bit more in depth?

DarkHorse30
02-21-2011, 01:34 PM
This is a stupid story brought about by stupid title 9 crap that is a joke.

NOBODY watches the WNBA.....is that a crime?

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 01:34 PM
I wouldn't have tried to cheap shot her but I would be slamming her to the ground in an effort to make her reconsider whether she was one of the guys. You start letting boys be on girls sports teams and we'll see how far equality actually reaches.

Oh, and this was touted as the first win at the tournament for a girl since he forfeited. Good thing it came this way because her and the other girl that made it there went on to lose every single match they competed in from that point on.

And just out of curiousity, if he spent the whole match grabbing her tits, would people be bitching about it?

Tombstone RJ
02-21-2011, 01:35 PM
care to explain a little bit more in depth?

The kid took a stance and now the lefty establisment is calling him out on it. I'm I the only one who sees all the irony of modern society?

Our lefty modern society is ok with you--as long as you go along with the program. But, take a stance against the liberal nazi movement, and all of a sudden--YOU'RE THE PROBLEM.

There is no such thing as a free society where those who see things differently (non progressive) are simply cast as ignorant, or backwards, or uneducated, or just wrong.

What is wrong is the complete and systematic marginalization of men in today's society.

Tombstone RJ
02-21-2011, 01:37 PM
I got nothing against the kid, but this isn't about being politically correct. This is about being correct. Female wrestlers aren't getting any special rules, so where's the problem? Not every woman should have to conform to antiquated, conservative, religious standards on what they should be allowed to do. He isn't any more heroic than all of the young women who are out there competing as wrestlers.

Congrats, you've been brainwashed. Lemme guess, you live in Cali?

vancejohnson82
02-21-2011, 01:40 PM
The kid took a stance and now the lefty establisment is calling him out on it. I'm I the only one who sees all the irony of modern society?

Our lefty modern society is ok with you--as long as you go along with the program. But, take a stance against the liberal nazi movement, and all of a sudden--YOU'RE THE PROBLEM.

There is no such thing as a free society where those who see things differently (non progressive) are simply cast as ignorant, or backwards, or uneducated, or just wrong.

What is wrong is the complete and systematic marginalization of men in today's society.


I'm not sure if I've read anything that casts a negative judgement onto the kid...he had every right to make his clear his "stance" and his beliefs. I think even the girl's family came out and said that they respected his decision.

mkporter
02-21-2011, 01:41 PM
I wouldn't have tried to cheap shot her but I would be slamming her to the ground in an effort to make her reconsider whether she was one of the guys. You start letting boys be on girls sports teams and we'll see how far equality actually reaches.

Oh, and this was touted as the first win at the tournament for a girl since he forfeited. Good thing it came this way because her and the other girl that made it there went on to lose every single match they competed in from that point on.

And just out of curiousity, if he spent the whole match grabbing her boobies, would people be b****ing about it?

If he spent the whole match fondling a dude's nutsack, how do you think that would go over?

mkporter
02-21-2011, 01:42 PM
Congrats, you've been brainwashed. Lemme guess, you live in Cali?


Let me guess, you are able to read my location underneath my avatar?

mkporter
02-21-2011, 01:43 PM
The kid took a stance and now the lefty establisment is calling him out on it. I'm I the only one who sees all the irony of modern society?

Our lefty modern society is ok with you--as long as you go along with the program. But, take a stance against the liberal nazi movement, and all of a sudden--YOU'RE THE PROBLEM.

There is no such thing as a free society where those who see things differently (non progressive) are simply cast as ignorant, or backwards, or uneducated, or just wrong.

What is wrong is the complete and systematic marginalization of men in today's society.



Persecution complex much? I haven't seen that many people calling him out on it. He was respectful as he declined to participate. I just don't agree that he is some kind of hero.

Tombstone RJ
02-21-2011, 01:44 PM
I'm not sure if I've read anything that casts a negative judgement onto the kid...he had every right to make his clear his "stance" and his beliefs. I think even the girl's family came out and said that they respected his decision.

He's been called a coward on this very thread. Hey, I'm all for women's rights, but we've gone beyond women's rights and we are now teetering on the absurd.

Tombstone RJ
02-21-2011, 01:45 PM
Let me guess, you are able to read my location underneath my avatar?

only after I posted, it was a complete guess before I hit "submit reply."

Tombstone RJ
02-21-2011, 01:46 PM
Persecution complex much? I haven't seen that many people calling him out on it. He was respectful as he declined to participate. I just don't agree that he is some kind of hero.

I just call it like I see it.

TheReverend
02-21-2011, 01:46 PM
This is brand new news.

Brb making a thread because I just heard Egypt is rioting.

I rescind this comment.

This thread is getting fantastic.

mkporter
02-21-2011, 01:50 PM
Chivalry is not a moral order. Its a set of ethical values that elevates women to a high standard, and requires that a man put her before himself.

The best in this young man came out when he was under pressure. That's quite impressive.


As long as you get to determine what putting her first means, right? Regardless of what she wants?

DomCasual
02-21-2011, 01:54 PM
This happened to my best friend.

He said afterwards that he went out and purposely lost the match because he didn't feel that it was right.

How can a society teach boys from the time they are born it is wrong to hit, grab, or slap women and then simply "allow" them to get into a competitive wrestling match. Women are allowed to play any sport a man plays and wrestling shouldn't be one of those sports.

I fixed that for you. :)

elsid13
02-21-2011, 01:57 PM
I rescind this comment.

This thread is getting fantastic.

It going to get interesting. I think someone should brings in the X Church to help.

Tombstone RJ
02-21-2011, 02:04 PM
As long as you get to determine what putting her first means, right? Regardless of what she wants?

It's pretty obvious that what she wants outweighs what he wants. I wrestled too and there's no friggen way I'd feel comfortable going up against a girl. In fact, I'd feel completely stupid about the whole situation.

In fact, I'd probably quit the team.

Why, because it doesn't matter what guys think, if they don't agree with allowing women on the team, then they are just ignorant and uneducated. If the coaches don't like it, tuff, deal with it.

"we gotta allow girls to wrestle!!" why? Why can't we say "no" to these girls? Why do we only tell men what they can't do, but not women? Why the double standard?

kappys
02-21-2011, 02:08 PM
I agree this has gone too far. Create a women's wrestling league. Or let boys compete on girls teams if fair is fair.

vancejohnson82
02-21-2011, 02:09 PM
It's pretty obvious that what she wants outweighs what he wants. I wrestled too and there's no friggen way I'd feel comfortable going up against a girl. In fact, I'd feel completely stupid about the whole situation.

In fact, I'd probably quit the team.

Why, because it doesn't matter what guys think, if they don't agree with allowing women on the team, then they are just ignorant and uneducated. If the coaches don't like it, tuff, deal with it.

"we gotta allow girls to wrestle!!" why? Why can't we say "no" to these girls? Why do we only tell men what they can't do, but not women? Why the double standard?

I think its unfair that they get paid more than men too...total bull****

Dr. Broncenstein
02-21-2011, 02:13 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Zf8PH1YIXjE/Sr_fQc6KHwI/AAAAAAAAATM/7FvmN306tWo/s400/andy+kaufman.jpg

Agamemnon
02-21-2011, 02:17 PM
Once again the fallacious notion that equal rights = sameness rears its ugly head. Men and women (or boys and girls) should be treated with the same level of dignity and respect. They should not be treated as if they are actually the same. They are not.

mkporter
02-21-2011, 02:20 PM
It's pretty obvious that what she wants outweighs what he wants. I wrestled too and there's no friggen way I'd feel comfortable going up against a girl. In fact, I'd feel completely stupid about the whole situation.

In fact, I'd probably quit the team.

Why, because it doesn't matter what guys think, if they don't agree with allowing women on the team, then they are just ignorant and uneducated. If the coaches don't like it, tuff, deal with it.

"we gotta allow girls to wrestle!!" why? Why can't we say "no" to these girls? Why do we only tell men what they can't do, but not women? Why the double standard?

I'm sorry, did you just complain that society never tells a woman what she can't do? Most societies throughout history, including our own, have had a pretty long history of telling women what they can't do. They can't vote, go to school, earn their own money, divorce, etc... As a corollary, men have had the good fortune to be able to do pretty much anything they want to, up to present day.

You are right that there a lot more instances of women being included into historically men's activities, then the other way around. This is because most activities are historically men's activities.

Tombstone RJ
02-21-2011, 02:21 PM
I think its unfair that they get paid more than men too...total bull****

Right now there are more women going to college than men and there are more women entering the workforce than men.

I'm all for equal pay for equal work, and as the workforce changes to become predominantly women, I'm sure this will change too.

Congrats broseff, you are helping with your own marginalization.

mkporter
02-21-2011, 02:23 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Zf8PH1YIXjE/Sr_fQc6KHwI/AAAAAAAAATM/7FvmN306tWo/s400/andy+kaufman.jpg

For anyone joining the thread now, this is the best post you will see here.

Blart
02-21-2011, 02:27 PM
Create a women's wrestling league. Or let boys compete on girls teams if fair is fair.

This was already discussed, and there are two issues:
1) There aren't enough women interested in the sport in that district to warrant segregation.
2) HS women are close enough in skill to HS men for co-ed wrestling to be competitive, as evidenced by two girls kicking enough ass enough to make the finals.

"we gotta allow girls to wrestle!!" why? Why can't we say "no" to these girls? Why do we only tell men what they can't do, but not women? Why the double standard?

I don't understand your argument. Please define the double standard you are seeing.

Tombstone RJ
02-21-2011, 02:27 PM
I'm sorry, did you just complain that society never tells a woman what she can't do? Most societies throughout history, including our own, have had a pretty long history of telling women what they can't do. They can't vote, go to school, earn their own money, divorce, etc... As a corollary, men have had the good fortune to be able to do pretty much anything they want to, up to present day.

You are right that there a lot more instances of women being included into historically men's activities, then the other way around. This is because most activities are historically men's activities.

I'm saying the scales have tipped in the opposite direction. Girls being allowed to wrestle on men's teams is a good example of blurring the lines between equal rights, and throwing common sense out the window.

Tombstone RJ
02-21-2011, 02:33 PM
This was already discussed, and there are two issues:
1) There aren't enough women interested in the sport in that district to warrant segregation.
2) HS women are close enough in skill to HS men for co-ed wrestling to be competitive, as evidenced by two girls kicking enough ass enough to make the finals.



I don't understand your argument. Please define the double standard you are seeing.

Girls being allowed to play on men's teams, with no regard to how the men feel about it.

I don't want men to be allowed to play on women's teams either, 'cause that is just stupid.

If there aren't enough women to start a women's wrestling league, then just tell these girls "no." Tell them to find another sport where there are women's leagues.

kappys
02-21-2011, 02:37 PM
This was already discussed, and there are two issues:
1) There aren't enough women interested in the sport in that district to warrant segregation.
2) HS women are close enough in skill to HS men for co-ed wrestling to be competitive, as evidenced by two girls kicking enough ass enough to make the finals.



I don't understand your argument. Please define the double standard you are seeing.

I could care less about the skill. Title IX allows for women to have as many sports options as men. There is probably no men's field hockey team and no men playing on the women's team. There are an equal number of sports distrubuted between the sexes - play one that your school offers. If you don't like the choices find a private league or district that does offer the sport.

vancejohnson82
02-21-2011, 02:42 PM
Right now there are more women going to college than men and there are more women entering the workforce than men.

I'm all for equal pay for equal work, and as the workforce changes to become predominantly women, I'm sure this will change too.

Congrats broseff, you are helping with your own marginalization.

I'm not really too concerned about it....

now this purple rash growing on my ass is of immediate concern

mkporter
02-21-2011, 02:46 PM
I'm saying the scales have tipped in the opposite direction. Girls being allowed to wrestle on men's teams is a good example of blurring the lines between equal rights, and throwing common sense out the window.

I, for one, welcome our new female overlords....

I'd say the scales still have a ways to go. I understand that there are issues in having men and women compete in sports. Men, on the whole, have a physical advantage over women, you can't argue that. You have to look at what makes sense. In wrestling, in particular, competition is split up by weight class, so if a women wants to compete with no special rules afforded to her, then it is fine to me, particularly if there aren't enough women to field a women's league.

I know that some men are uncomfortable wrestling a girl, but I don't see discomfort as being a good enough reason to prohibit it. I trained at a Braziallian Jiu-Jitsu school for several years, and sometimes women would train with the guys. It was a little awkward at first, particularly because it wasn't split up by weight class, and I'm a pretty big guy. In the end though, you fight, be respectful, and kick their ass if you can, just like a guy, no big deal.

Archer81
02-21-2011, 02:53 PM
There seems to be a feminization of men going on in this country. I am aware of the irony of a gay dude stating this fact, but it does strike me as a little odd. It has nothing to do with what women are and are not capable of doing, or the history of women in the world.

This thread exists because a young kid did not want to wrestle a girl. His reasoning was a religious based one. He was probably told since birth to not be mean to girls, do not be aggressive against girls, do not physically dominate girls, and then as a wrestler he is asked to do all of these things. This is just a small example of what boys are being taught and then what we actually ask them to do. Be sensitive to others, dont cry. Play sports, dont keep score. Women are fully culpable in this too. I want a sensitive, responsible man...and they fall for the bad boys. Pick a line of thought and go with it.

We are mind****ing our boys because of rampant feminism. This is not making the sexes equal, it is denutting half the population for the sake of gender politics.

:Broncos:

Irish Stout
02-21-2011, 02:55 PM
What surprises me is how big this story has gotten. I felt very so-whatish about the whole thing.

She wants to wrestle. Good for her. He doesn't want to wrestle girls. Good for him. Everyone is a winner! Except when she loses in the next round and the fact his is a forfeiture on that round, which is still a L. People should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want so long as they are not hurting anyone elses right to do what they want. In this case, the girl wanted to wrestle and the guy didn't want to wrestle girls and they both got what they wanted.

I feel like I hear these stories all the time. Girls wanting to play football, guys wanting to play field hockey.

Poor Spencer Mays who wanted to play soccer. http://www.examiner.com/soccer-in-seattle/port-angeles-boy-wants-to-play-on-girls-team-club-postpones-practices

Of course, soccer is a game better suited to the ladies anyway.

mkporter
02-21-2011, 03:02 PM
There seems to be a feminization of men going on in this country. I am aware of the irony of a gay dude stating this fact, but it does strike me as a little odd. It has nothing to do with what women are and are not capable of doing, or the history of women in the world.

This thread exists because a young kid did not want to wrestle a girl. His reasoning was a religious based one. He was probably told since birth to not be mean to girls, do not be aggressive against girls, do not physically dominate girls, and then as a wrestler he is asked to do all of these things. This is just a small example of what boys are being taught and then what we actually ask them to do. Be sensitive to others, dont cry. Play sports, dont keep score. Women are fully culpable in this too. I want a sensitive, responsible man...and they fall for the bad boys. Pick a line of thought and go with it.

We are mind****ing our boys because of rampant feminism. This is not making the sexes equal, it is denutting half the population for the sake of gender politics.

:Broncos:

The needs of our society no longer match the realities of our biology. Men don't have to fight and kill like they used to. Women don't have to spend most of their life rearing children. We live until we are 80 on average. This=conflict of gender roles.

TheReverend
02-21-2011, 03:04 PM
The needs of our society no longer match the realities of our biology. Men don't have to fight and kill like they used to. Women don't have to spend most of their life rearing children. We live until we are 80 on average. This=conflict of gender roles.

And a conflict of genetic impulse.

HAT
02-21-2011, 03:06 PM
Girls being allowed to play on men's teams, with no regard to how the men feel about it.

I don't want men to be allowed to play on women's teams either, 'cause that is just stupid.



Wrestling is not a team sport though....They may try to make it that way for the purposes of a meet but when you are on the mat, it's an individual sport.

Wrestling is actually one of the best individual sports to have co-ed competition because weight classes automatically level the playing field, unlike swimming, tennis, track etc. Guys may be stronger pound for pound but wrestling is as much technique & smarts as it is strength.

Maybe the dude was just afraid of chubbing up in his singlet. :wiggle:

broncolife
02-21-2011, 03:07 PM
I think I would have declined too. I remember being a horny high schooler and I think it would be very embarrassing getting a boner during a match.

Archer81
02-21-2011, 03:08 PM
The needs of our society no longer match the realities of our biology. Men don't have to fight and kill like they used to. Women don't have to spend most of their life rearing children. We live until we are 80 on average. This=conflict of gender roles.


Men do better when competition is involved. It doesnt matter if its hunting wooly mammoths or playing organized sports (that count...not this play for the hell of it bull****).

Think about what we do to boys. If they act up in class, teacher tells the principal, who calls the district shrink and the parents, and the kid ends up on ritalin because 30 minutes of "gym" a week isnt cutting it. I swear to God a generation ago after lunch we got an hour outside to do whatever the hell we wanted to run off all that energy.

Society has changed, needs of boys has not, and they are being overlooked.

:Broncos:

mkporter
02-21-2011, 03:11 PM
And a conflict of genetic impulse.

Exactly.

Irish Stout
02-21-2011, 03:14 PM
There seems to be a feminization of men going on in this country. I am aware of the irony of a gay dude stating this fact, but it does strike me as a little odd. It has nothing to do with what women are and are not capable of doing, or the history of women in the world.

This thread exists because a young kid did not want to wrestle a girl. His reasoning was a religious based one. He was probably told since birth to not be mean to girls, do not be aggressive against girls, do not physically dominate girls, and then as a wrestler he is asked to do all of these things. This is just a small example of what boys are being taught and then what we actually ask them to do. Be sensitive to others, dont cry. Play sports, dont keep score. Women are fully culpable in this too. I want a sensitive, responsible man...and they fall for the bad boys. Pick a line of thought and go with it.

We are mind****ing our boys because of rampant feminism. This is not making the sexes equal, it is denutting half the population for the sake of gender politics.

:Broncos:

Dude this issue is as old as time its not new. Joan of Arc. British noblemen wearing girly wigs and makeup and being dainty and delicate. Queens as rulers. Queen as a male rock group. White men giving up their sole and exclusive right to vote to colored folk and people with boobies. Man boobs on beer drinking gun toting red blooded Americans.

People have always been mind f*cked.

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 03:15 PM
Wrestling is not a team sport though....They may try to make it that way for the purposes of a meet but when you are on the mat, it's an individual sport.

Wrestling is actually one of the best individual sports to have co-ed competition because weight classes automatically level the playing field, unlike swimming, tennis, track etc. Guys may be stronger pound for pound but wrestling is as much technique & smarts as it is strength.

Maybe the dude was just afraid of chubbing up in his singlet. :wiggle:

There were two girls in this tournament. They lost every time they took the mat. Every. Single. Time.

Are you to suggest this guy wouldn't have beat her as well?

mkporter
02-21-2011, 03:16 PM
Men do better when competition is involved. It doesnt matter if its hunting wooly mammoths or playing organized sports (that count...not this play for the hell of it bull****).

Think about what we do to boys. If they act up in class, teacher tells the principal, who calls the district shrink and the parents, and the kid ends up on ritalin because 30 minutes of "gym" a week isnt cutting it. I swear to God a generation ago after lunch we got an hour outside to do whatever the hell we wanted to run off all that energy.

Society has changed, needs of boys has not, and they are being overlooked.

:Broncos:

Very true. It's an over-reaction to trying to help boys adapt to the realities of our society. You can't go about punching Ron from accounting because he didn't process your expense report in a timely fashion, but that doesn't mean you don't need some other way to burn off that impulse.

Irish Stout
02-21-2011, 03:17 PM
Men do better when competition is involved. It doesnt matter if its hunting wooly mammoths or playing organized sports (that count...not this play for the hell of it bull****).

Think about what we do to boys. If they act up in class, teacher tells the principal, who calls the district shrink and the parents, and the kid ends up on ritalin because 30 minutes of "gym" a week isnt cutting it. I swear to God a generation ago after lunch we got an hour outside to do whatever the hell we wanted to run off all that energy.

Society has changed, needs of boys has not, and they are being overlooked.

:Broncos:

This I absolutely agree with.

NUB
02-21-2011, 03:17 PM
Jesus. Women get smashed by men in basically all other sports ranging anywhere from athletic track running to the more passive golfing. That's why society tends to separate them. Everyone can acknowledge this, yes? So why is wrestling where we are going to let women and men come together? Wrestling is one of the most physically intense and demanding sports there is and it is essentially a combat sport. The world will never see a woman crowned some wrestling or boxing or MMA champ when her competition includes men. It wont happen.

Not to mention the other factors outside of the physical. Socially, men are not supposed to beat on women. I totally see the kid's point of view on this. Hell, I feel uncomfortable if I enter a door before a woman. What's the kid supposed to do? It's already been said, if he wins then it means nothing; if he loses it means he'll never live it down. If these are the two outcomes -- and they are the only ones, really -- then why in the hell is a woman wrestling a man in the first place? There is clearly no equality there no matter how much people wish there to be.

mkporter
02-21-2011, 03:18 PM
There were two girls in this tournament. They lost every time they took the mat. Every. Single. Time.

Are you to suggest this guy wouldn't have beat her as well?

He probably would have. This was also the first time a girl had qualified for the tournament, I believe. They are getting better.

Dr. Broncenstein
02-21-2011, 03:18 PM
What if this was boxing / martial arts instead of rastlin?

Edit: NUB just asked the same thing

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 03:19 PM
I, for one, welcome our new female overlords....

I'd say the scales still have a ways to go. I understand that there are issues in having men and women compete in sports. Men, on the whole, have a physical advantage over women, you can't argue that. You have to look at what makes sense. In wrestling, in particular, competition is split up by weight class, so if a women wants to compete with no special rules afforded to her, then it is fine to me, particularly if there aren't enough women to field a women's league.

I know that some men are uncomfortable wrestling a girl, but I don't see discomfort as being a good enough reason to prohibit it. I trained at a Braziallian Jiu-Jitsu school for several years, and sometimes women would train with the guys. It was a little awkward at first, particularly because it wasn't split up by weight class, and I'm a pretty big guy. In the end though, you fight, be respectful, and kick their ass if you can, just like a guy, no big deal.

Women naturally have more body fat, proportionally, than men, right? So the weight classes do not designate equality.

When I read about this the other day, it had an occurance of a boy on a girls field hockey team where he just helped them destroy everyone they competed against and everyone threw a fit. They also had a story of a guy who wrestled a girl and the crowd went nuts with boos, even from the parents of his own teammates, when he beat the girl.

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 03:20 PM
He probably would have. This was also the first time a girl had qualified for the tournament, I believe. They are getting better.

The articles I read simply stated that it was the first time a girl had won. As I said, there were two girls in this particular tournament. It was implied that they've made it before.

Archer81
02-21-2011, 03:21 PM
Very true. It's an over-reaction to trying to help boys adapt to the realities of our society. You can't go about punching Ron from accounting because he didn't process your expense report in a timely fashion, but that doesn't mean you don't need some other way to burn off that impulse.


It strikes me as kind of sad. Men and boys are physical. Drugging them because they are being boys in class is missing the point. Put them outside for an hour a day and watch the afternoon shenanigans drop right off. And Ron from accounting needs to get hit if he keeps putting off those ****ing expense reports...thats why you invite him to a game of prison rules basketball.

:Broncos:

Irish Stout
02-21-2011, 03:21 PM
What if this was boxing / martial arts instead of rastlin?

Edit: NUB just asked the same thing

The girl should sign the waiver and get punched the f out... if the guy is willing and able to punch a girl. If he is not, then he should elect not to participate in that match.

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 03:23 PM
The girl should sign the waiver and get punched the f out... if the guy is willing and able to punch a girl. If he is not, then he should elect not to participate in that match.

Sadly I think the best thing that could happen would be to send a girl out with a boy that doesn't give a **** and let him smash her face. Let the girl leave the mat pouring blood, looking to her family... see if everyone is so willing to send their little girl into boy's play again.

Dr. Broncenstein
02-21-2011, 03:23 PM
The girl should sign the waiver and get punched the f out... if the guy is willing and able to punch a girl. If he is not, then he should elect not to participate in that match.

Well that didn't take long. LoL.

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 03:24 PM
It strikes me as kind of sad. Men and boys are physical. Drugging them because they are being boys in class is missing the point. Put them outside for an hour a day and watch the afternoon shenanigans drop right off. And Ron from accounting needs to get hit if he keeps putting off those ****ing expense reports...thats why you invite him to a game of prison rules basketball.

:Broncos:

Drugs merely replace backhands. Straighten the kids out and they wont need drugs. These days though, drugs are the answer for everything. It's no wonder a miracle drug to make up for bad parenting has taken off.

HAT
02-21-2011, 03:24 PM
There were two girls in this tournament. They lost every time they took the mat. Every. Single. Time.

Are you to suggest this guy wouldn't have beat her as well?

Not at all. Everything I've read suggests that the guy is probably a better wrestler. I think he was ranked 5th in the state at that class.

And as far as them losing every match.....You do realize that this was the state championships, yes? It's not like somebody just decided to throw some girls out there on the mat. They qualified.

Her name is Cassy Herkelman, and she earned her way into the state tournament. She had gone 21-13 this season with eight pins, and in Iowa, that's no joke. That's arguably the most competitive state for high school wrestling, and Herkelman reached the state tournament fairly -- by finishing second at district.

Herkelman belonged in that tournament.

Mr.Meanie
02-21-2011, 03:25 PM
I don't much care about this issue one way or the other, but if everyone is so worried about equality why not just let meritocracy rule? If the girl is qualifying on her own merits and not as some sort of publicity stunt, why should she not be able to compete?

For example, could girls compete fairly against guys in "sports" like pool, darts, bowling, chess, etc? I would say absolutely... so why not let them if they can do it?

I will also point out that I am 6'2", fairly athletic and work out 3-5 times per week, and I can say unequivically this girl would probably destroy me in wrestling. Just saying...

Dr. Broncenstein
02-21-2011, 03:29 PM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qMwPq-a-8W4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Agamemnon
02-21-2011, 03:30 PM
I just had an image of a girl with cauliflower ears flash through my mind and nearly puked. It's bad enough when guys get it...

Fedaykin
02-21-2011, 03:30 PM
It's scary to see all the veiled (and not so veiled) mysongeny in this thread.

A decent human being treats all other human beings with the same respect, regardless of their gender. This girl wanted to be there -- wanted to wrestle. There's nothing honorable about this kid's actions. The only honorable thing to do would be to complete the match to the best of his ability. He probably just wanted to avoid the possibility of losing -- as others have admitted to in this thread.

Women are not porcelain dolls, boys. "Putting them on a pedestal" is just as sexist as the misogynistic attitude.

mkporter
02-21-2011, 03:31 PM
Women naturally have more body fat, proportionally, than men, right? So the weight classes do not designate equality.

When I read about this the other day, it had an occurance of a boy on a girls field hockey team where he just helped them destroy everyone they competed against and everyone threw a fit. They also had a story of a guy who wrestled a girl and the crowd went nuts with boos, even from the parents of his own teammates, when he beat the girl.

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Not really the point. The only argument that holds any water here is that men may be uncomfortable fighting a girl. I don't think it is a strong argument, but it has logical validity. You can't make an issue of inequality, when the supposedly weaker participant is the one making the choice to compete. These girls made it to the state tournament, they can't be totally incapable out there. It's not like somebody decided that the local state prison system didn't have enough wrestlers to field a team, so they should compete against the high school kids.

Fedaykin
02-21-2011, 03:32 PM
Sadly I think the best thing that could happen would be to send a girl out with a boy that doesn't give a **** and let him smash her face. Let the girl leave the mat pouring blood, looking to her family... see if everyone is so willing to send their little girl into boy's play again.


Ahh, the hero conservative: Beat the **** out of her so she will go away!

Archer81
02-21-2011, 03:33 PM
It's scary to see all the veiled (and not so veiled) mysongeny in this thread.

A decent human being treats all other human beings with the same respect, regardless of their gender. This girl wanted to be there -- wanted to wrestle. There's nothing honorable about this kid's actions. The only honorable thing to do would be to complete the match to the best of his ability. He probably just wanted to avoid the possibility of losing -- as others have admitted to in this thread.

Women are not porcelain dolls, boys. "Putting them on a pedestal" is just as sexist as the misogynistic attitude.

And as someone else said in this thread, if he wins he just "beat a girl". Its a no win for him.

:Broncos:

Dr. Broncenstein
02-21-2011, 03:33 PM
It's scary to see all the veiled (and not so veiled) mysongeny in this thread.

A decent human being treats all other human beings with the same respect, regardless of their gender. This girl wanted to be there -- wanted to wrestle. There's nothing honorable about this kid's actions. The only honorable thing to do would be to complete the match to the best of his ability. He probably just wanted to avoid the possibility of losing -- as others have admitted to in this thread.

Women are not porcelain dolls, boys. "Putting them on a pedestal" is just as sexist as the misogynistic attitude.

I propose that another form of misogyny is being okay with males physically beating females in combat sports.

Pony Boy
02-21-2011, 03:34 PM
Why would anyone want to do this......

Agamemnon
02-21-2011, 03:36 PM
I will also point out that I am 6'2", fairly athletic and work out 3-5 times per week, and I can say unequivically this girl would probably destroy me in wrestling. Just saying...

Err...seriously? She looks like she weighs a 100 lbs soaking wet. The only way she would destroy a 6'2", fairly athletic guy (who probably weighs more than twice what she does) is through a divine miracle.

Mr.Meanie
02-21-2011, 03:37 PM
I propose that another form of misogyny is being okay with males physically beating females in combat sports.

That argument seems to be the same as saying you're homophobic if you beat a gay person in a combat sport.

mkporter
02-21-2011, 03:37 PM
The articles I read simply stated that it was the first time a girl had won. As I said, there were two girls in this particular tournament. It was implied that they've made it before.

I had noted it when I read the AP story last week. It was not noted in the OP's link.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110217/ap_on_sp_ot/us_girl_wrestler_default_6

Wrestling is hugely popular in Iowa, and this is the first time girls have qualified for the state tournament, which began in 1926.

Agamemnon
02-21-2011, 03:38 PM
Why would anyone want to do this......

Wow, that's an awesome photo, and visual evidence of why I never did any wrestling after I tried it once. And that photo doesn't capture the smell...

Mr.Meanie
02-21-2011, 03:38 PM
Err...seriously? She looks like she weighs a 100 lbs soaking wet. The only way she would destroy a 6'2", fairly athletic guy (who probably weighs more than twice what she does) is through a divine miracle.

I see. Well as you can tell I didn't read the article, just the comments. Maybe I can amend that to say any wrestler in or anywhere near my weight class would most likely destroy me.

TheReverend
02-21-2011, 03:39 PM
I find it completely ridiculous that this continues to be discussed.

He's a teenage kid that made a choice. Whoopty ****ing do.

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 03:41 PM
I had noted it when I read the AP story last week. It was not noted in the OP's link.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110217/ap_on_sp_ot/us_girl_wrestler_default_6

OK, the way I read it was that it was only significant for the win. So she could've been proud of her accomplishments in just making it but, instead, that's overshadowed by her BS win.

Agamemnon
02-21-2011, 03:41 PM
And as someone else said in this thread, if he wins he just "beat a girl". Its a no win for him.

:Broncos:

And think of the developing boys who were emasculated by actually losing to these girls in the process of their qualifying. That's likely something they're going to be cruelly reminded of on a daily basis by their schoolmates.

Fedaykin
02-21-2011, 03:41 PM
I propose that another form of misogyny is being okay with males physically beating females in combat sports.

If she signed up and has proven her ability it's no different than one male beating another or one female beating another. All you chauvinists have a really poor understanding of women, and it shows.

I've participated in mixed sex "combat sports" my entire life (martial arts). I've sparred hundreds of different girls/women over the decades. I treat them with respect which includes sparring them to the best of my ability and taking losses with dignity. Hell, I even have some cracked ribs delivered to me by "just a girl".

mkporter
02-21-2011, 03:42 PM
Sadly I think the best thing that could happen would be to send a girl out with a boy that doesn't give a **** and let him smash her face. Let the girl leave the mat pouring blood, looking to her family... see if everyone is so willing to send their little girl into boy's play again.

Seriously? What is wrong with you? This girl was obviously able to hold her own throughout the season. Nobody needed to "teach her a lesson." I feel bad for the women in your life.

Agamemnon
02-21-2011, 03:43 PM
I see. Well as you can tell I didn't read the article, just the comments. Maybe I can amend that to say any wrestler in or anywhere near my weight class would most likely destroy me.

Fair enough. A woman in your weight class would likely be very scary...

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 03:44 PM
It's scary to see all the veiled (and not so veiled) mysongeny in this thread.

A decent human being treats all other human beings with the same respect, regardless of their gender. This girl wanted to be there -- wanted to wrestle. There's nothing honorable about this kid's actions. The only honorable thing to do would be to complete the match to the best of his ability. He probably just wanted to avoid the possibility of losing -- as others have admitted to in this thread.

Women are not porcelain dolls, boys. "Putting them on a pedestal" is just as sexist as the misogynistic attitude.

So if a woman came up getting in your face, you'd react the exact same way you would if a guy did? I find that hard to believe.

Now, don't get me wrong... I look forward to the day when a bitchy woman can be uppercutted just the way a guy can... but that day isn't here yet. Until that day comes and everyone is truly treated equal, it is what it is.

I bet you can find some telling statistics if you look at the number of men vs women arrested in domestic violence issues. I'd guarrantee women get the benefit of the doubt more often than not. It's nothing new, don't act like men are making it up here.

mkporter
02-21-2011, 03:46 PM
OK, the way I read it was that it was only significant for the win. So she could've been proud of her accomplishments in just making it but, instead, that's overshadowed by her BS win.

I'm sure she is proud that she made it to state. She didn't ask her opponent to forfeit, you know.

Pony Boy
02-21-2011, 03:47 PM
I've participated in mixed sex "combat sports" my entire life (martial arts). I've sparred hundreds of different girls/women over the decades. I treat them with respect which includes sparring them to the best of my ability and taking losses with dignity. Hell, I even have some cracked ribs delivered to me by "just a girl".



I don't think I would of told anybody that.......you must really be a puss...

mkporter
02-21-2011, 03:48 PM
So if a woman came up getting in your face, you'd react the exact same way you would if a guy did? I find that hard to believe.

Now, don't get me wrong... I look forward to the day when a b****y woman can be uppercutted just the way a guy can... but that day isn't here yet. Until that day comes and everyone is truly treated equal, it is what it is.

I bet you can find some telling statistics if you look at the number of men vs women arrested in domestic violence issues. I'd guarrantee women get the benefit of the doubt more often than not. It's nothing new, don't act like men are making it up here.

Seriously? You go around upper-cutting a lot of dudes? If you are so amped on beating women, you should be all for having them voluntarily compete against men in combat sports.

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 03:48 PM
Seriously? What is wrong with you? This girl was obviously able to hold her own throughout the season. Nobody needed to "teach her a lesson." I feel bad for the women in your life.

I just want things like sports to be simple. They don't have to be philosophical events. If there's not enough women to have a league, tough ****, be a cheerleader.

Why have women's sports and men's sports if they're equal? All or nothing, in my book. By just putting their toe in the water they screwed over that guy who was a favorite in his weight class.

So what say you? Are they equal and should be lumped together or divided by sexes?

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 03:50 PM
I'm sure she is proud that she made it to state. She didn't ask her opponent to forfeit, you know.

Her quote was something along the lines of "nobody made him do something he didn't want to do". It sounded like she was treating it as a win. It wasn't a win. You can't win without having a match. Instead of her just making it and having accomplished that, she's going to be remembered for this hollow victory.

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 03:52 PM
Seriously? You go around upper-cutting a lot of dudes? If you are so amped on beating women, you should be all for having them voluntarily compete against men in combat sports.

I haven't hit anyone since I nearly sent a guy to the hospital in high school. It's the fear of consequences which makes us adhere to laws of society - not always having to experience them. If the situation arose today where I thought it was necessary, I'd hit a guy. I'd have extra consequences to consider if I felt the need to hit a woman. That is not equality.

Fedaykin
02-21-2011, 03:52 PM
I've participated in mixed sex "combat sports" my entire life (martial arts). I've sparred hundreds of different girls/women over the decades. I treat them with respect which includes sparring them to the best of my ability and taking losses with dignity. Hell, I even have some cracked ribs delivered to me by "just a girl".

I don't think I would of told anybody that.......you must really be a puss...

I can pretty much guarantee that all the women I have sparred would make mince meat of you -- so I have no problem admitting the above.

schaaf
02-21-2011, 03:54 PM
I couldn't play volleyball even if I wanted to. There are not enough men that would want to play to support a volleyball team. But then why can't I just play on the girls team.

Girls want to wrestle, there are not enough girls that want to wrestle. But then when one of the women want to wrestle they are allowed to wrestle in a boys sport. Why am I not allowed to play volleyball in a womens sport.

Rascal
02-21-2011, 03:55 PM
Good for him. If girls want to wrestle they can have women's wrestling.

Fedaykin
02-21-2011, 03:56 PM
So if a woman came up getting in your face, you'd react the exact same way you would if a guy did? I find that hard to believe.


Well, I'd never resort to violence for someone "getting in my face" so yeah. If I did feel threatened physically, I would also respond the same.


Now, don't get me wrong... I look forward to the day when a b****y woman can be uppercutted just the way a guy can... but that day isn't here yet. Until that day comes and everyone is truly treated equal, it is what it is.


You're a sick ****, you know that?


I bet you can find some telling statistics if you look at the number of men vs women arrested in domestic violence issues. I'd guarrantee women get the benefit of the doubt more often than not. It's nothing new, don't act like men are making it up here.

You'd be surprised as how much domestic abuse is female on male but not reported.

Rascal
02-21-2011, 03:57 PM
She shouldn't have even been in the tournament. I read somewhere that every single one of her victories thus far was by forfeits.

Mr.Meanie
02-21-2011, 03:57 PM
I just want things like sports to be simple. They don't have to be philosophical events. If there's not enough women to have a league, tough ****, be a cheerleader.

Why have women's sports and men's sports if they're equal? All or nothing, in my book. By just putting their toe in the water they screwed over that guy who was a favorite in his weight class.

So what say you? Are they equal and should be lumped together or divided by sexes?

They have womens sports and men's sports because women traditionally are unable to compete on a level playing field in sports with men because of the physical differences. If a girl is physically able to compete with a man, why not let her?

In events like chess where the playing field is level for everyone, 10 year old kids and 60 year old women can all have a shot at playing each other for tournament titles.... do you see a problem with that?

mkporter
02-21-2011, 03:58 PM
Her quote was something along the lines of "nobody made him do something he didn't want to do". It sounded like she was treating it as a win. It wasn't a win. You can't win without having a match. Instead of her just making it and having accomplished that, she's going to be remembered for this hollow victory.

Maybe, but that is through no fault of her own. She didn't make this a story. She just went to compete. I'm sure she'd rather not have had it be a story at all.

HAT
02-21-2011, 03:58 PM
The world will never see a woman crowned some wrestling or boxing or MMA champ when her competition includes men. It wont happen.



The world? Probably not.....But it already happened in Alaska.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alaska girl makes history with wrestling title
Michaela Hutchison became the first girl in the nation to win a state high school wrestling title while competing against boys.

Hutchison won the final of the 103-pound weight class during Alaska's big school wrestling championships. The Skyview High sophomore entered the state tournament ranked No. 1 in her weight class.

Amid chants of "C'mon Michaela" and "Girl Power," Hutchison earned a 1-0 victory Saturday over Colony High School's Aaron Boss.

She scored an escape with 16 seconds left to beat Boss for the second time in as many weeks. Family and friends mobbed Hutchison as she walked away from the mat with a bloody nose, while the crowd rose in a standing ovation.

"They were helping me," Hutchison told the Anchorage Daily News.

She finished the season with a 45-4 record that included 33 pins, one shy of the state single-season record. Hutchison is the third in her family of 10 children to win a state title, joining brothers Zeb and Eli.

Agamemnon
02-21-2011, 03:59 PM
It's scary to see all the veiled (and not so veiled) mysongeny in this thread.

A decent human being treats all other human beings with the same respect, regardless of their gender. This girl wanted to be there -- wanted to wrestle. There's nothing honorable about this kid's actions. The only honorable thing to do would be to complete the match to the best of his ability. He probably just wanted to avoid the possibility of losing -- as others have admitted to in this thread.

Women are not porcelain dolls, boys. "Putting them on a pedestal" is just as sexist as the misogynistic attitude.

There is some misogyny in this thread, no doubt about it. There's also some who have a legitimate viewpoint which says that just because the sexes should have fair and equal treatment doesn't mean they are the same. Men and women are different in many important ways, and that colors how physical competition between the two is viewed. Namely that men have an inherent advantage that makes it unfair and unsporting, and that such competitions are no-win prospects for men as the deck is seen as being stacked in their favor.

When you add in the element of physical violence that exists in wrestling then you also come into conflict with the social conditioning that precludes men from using their greater strength to dominate and hurt women. Compounding that is the potential for emotional and psychological trauma to a developing boy's identity within the male community if he actually loses to a girl.

This isn't a simple black and white issue, where those that are against it are backwards misogynists. To act like it is, simply shuts down the dialog, and creates yet another partisan argument with no room for any actual progress or understanding.

mkporter
02-21-2011, 04:00 PM
She shouldn't have even been in the tournament. I read somewhere that every single one of her victories thus far was by forfeits.

Did you read that on an imaginary website in your dreams?

Gutless Drunk
02-21-2011, 04:01 PM
28085

HAT
02-21-2011, 04:01 PM
She shouldn't have even been in the tournament. I read somewhere that every single one of her victories thus far was by forfeits.

Wrong.

http://www.cbssports.com/general/story/14715607/heart-of-matter-no-one-to-blame-in-iowa-wrestler-flap

Her name is Cassy Herkelman, and she earned her way into the state tournament. She had gone 21-13 this season with eight pins, and in Iowa, that's no joke. That's arguably the most competitive state for high school wrestling, and Herkelman reached the state tournament fairly -- by finishing second at district.

Arkie
02-21-2011, 04:01 PM
Seriously? What is wrong with you? This girl was obviously able to hold her own throughout the season. Nobody needed to "teach her a lesson." I feel bad for the women in your life.

Sweep the leg, Johnny!

Agamemnon
02-21-2011, 04:02 PM
The world? Probably not.....But it already happened in Alaska.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alaska girl makes history with wrestling title
Michaela Hutchison became the first girl in the nation to win a state high school wrestling title while competing against boys.

Hutchison won the final of the 103-pound weight class during Alaska's big school wrestling championships. The Skyview High sophomore entered the state tournament ranked No. 1 in her weight class.

Amid chants of "C'mon Michaela" and "Girl Power," Hutchison earned a 1-0 victory Saturday over Colony High School's Aaron Boss.

She scored an escape with 16 seconds left to beat Boss for the second time in as many weeks. Family and friends mobbed Hutchison as she walked away from the mat with a bloody nose, while the crowd rose in a standing ovation.

"They were helping me," Hutchison told the Anchorage Daily News.

She finished the season with a 45-4 record that included 33 pins, one shy of the state single-season record. Hutchison is the third in her family of 10 children to win a state title, joining brothers Zeb and Eli.

The key being that adolescent females aren't really at a disadvantage physically yet, at least not like grown women are. I think we all knew a few girls in our teens that were as big and strong as most of the boys. That doesn't last.

ghwk
02-21-2011, 04:04 PM
The world? Probably not.....But it already happened in Alaska.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alaska girl makes history with wrestling title
Michaela Hutchison became the first girl in the nation to win a state high school wrestling title while competing against boys.

Hutchison won the final of the 103-pound weight class during Alaska's big school wrestling championships. The Skyview High sophomore entered the state tournament ranked No. 1 in her weight class.

Amid chants of "C'mon Michaela" and "Girl Power," Hutchison earned a 1-0 victory Saturday over Colony High School's Aaron Boss.

She scored an escape with 16 seconds left to beat Boss for the second time in as many weeks. Family and friends mobbed Hutchison as she walked away from the mat with a bloody nose, while the crowd rose in a standing ovation.

"They were helping me," Hutchison told the Anchorage Daily News.

She finished the season with a 45-4 record that included 33 pins, one shy of the state single-season record. Hutchison is the third in her family of 10 children to win a state title, joining brothers Zeb and Eli.


Man it sucks to be Aaron Boss.

Agamemnon
02-21-2011, 04:12 PM
Man it sucks to be Aaron Boss.

Again this is something that is being lost in all of this. The boys that are being asked to wrestle these girls are going through a key stage in their emotional and psychological development as males in a society that expects them to be stronger than their female counterparts. So if they actually lose they suffer a kind of trauma that might well cause lasting effects (while in winning, they gain nothing, or even possibly feel guilty for physically dominating a girl). Think about it. High School is cruel, and a boy losing a wrestling match to a girl would be something they would likely never live down amongst their peers. It's strange to me that this doesn't seem to occur to most people.

HAT
02-21-2011, 04:17 PM
The key being that adolescent females aren't really at a disadvantage physically yet, at least not like grown women are. I think we all knew a few girls in our teens that were as big and strong as most of the boys. That doesn't last.

And given that this is a thread about high school wrestling...What's your point?

Boobs McGee
02-21-2011, 04:18 PM
Back in my star studded wrestling career (see:sarcasm), I had to wrestle a girl exactly two times. This was in eighth grade, and anything over 190 was considered a heavyweight. The first time, I was pretty hesitant to try anything really, because I felt awkward and didn't want to "accidentally fondle" my opponent (she had gigantic boobs). Needless to say, I lost. Second time, all awkardness went out the window and I treated her like one of the guys, and beat her.

Now, I was a HORRIBLE little fat kid wrestler that had no idea wtf I was doing, but I can remember the feeling of wrestling a girl, and not wanting to do anything embarrassing. That feeling was quickly erased once I lost, however, and it went the opposite way. The kid in the story cites religious beliefs as one of the reasons he respectfully bowed out, and I find that kind of hard to believe. What seems MORE realistic, IMO, is that he associated rolling around on the ground, and possibly fondling a woman, as a direct violation of his churches moral standards. If he were to willingly grab the girls tits, or rub her snatch, or something similar, then I could see how this would be a problem.

I guess to me, there's no way in hell this kid should be hailed as a HERO, because he simply wanted to keep some moral standard of his intact. That's called everyday life folks...if you sway from your standards then you're only cheating yourself. Is that where our society is heading? We heap excessive amounts of praise upon someone who follows their moral guidelines? WOW.

The kid didn't want to wrestle a girl. Bfd.

Pony Boy
02-21-2011, 04:18 PM
I can pretty much guarantee that all the women I have sparred would make mince meat of you -- so I have no problem admitting the above.

I stand by my statement if you "spar with women and get beat" and are proud of it you must really be a puss......... Sparring is supposed to teach fundamentals for a real life scenario and men and women should be paired together, because in the real world its highly unlikely that a womans biggest adversary is gonna be another woman at least in a physical confrontation... sparring with men will help women overcome the fear/shock of the initial situation of getting hit or grabbed, etc. by a man, who generally are much stronger than women.......... except in your case........

mkporter
02-21-2011, 04:22 PM
Again this is something that is being lost in all of this. The boys that are being asked to wrestle these girls are going through a key stage in their emotional and psychological development as males in a society that expects them to be stronger than their female counterparts. So if they actually lose they suffer a kind of trauma that might well cause lasting effects (while in winning, they gain nothing, or even possibly feel guilty for physically dominating a girl). Think about it. High School is cruel, and a boy losing a wrestling match to a girl would be something they would likely never live down amongst their peers. It's strange to me that this doesn't seem to occur to most people.

I think that when the girl in question beats 44 other dudes, it becomes less of an issue. There are lots of reasons that HS can be cruel, and we don't set out to prevent all of them. We don't prevent boys from joining computer club, for instance.

Agamemnon
02-21-2011, 04:24 PM
And given that this is a thread about high school wrestling...What's your point?

You were quoting a comment about a woman becoming the world champ of MMA or wrestling. I was pointing out the difference in inter-sex competition between adolescents and adults. Not sure what's so confusing there...

ColoradoDarin
02-21-2011, 04:29 PM
So if a woman came up getting in your face, you'd react the exact same way you would if a guy did? I find that hard to believe.

Now, don't get me wrong... I look forward to the day when a b****y woman can be uppercutted just the way a guy can... but that day isn't here yet. Until that day comes and everyone is truly treated equal, it is what it is.

I bet you can find some telling statistics if you look at the number of men vs women arrested in domestic violence issues. I'd guarrantee women get the benefit of the doubt more often than not. It's nothing new, don't act like men are making it up here.

embedding disabled, but.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQLXYu6plhg

Boobs McGee
02-21-2011, 04:33 PM
Again this is something that is being lost in all of this. The boys that are being asked to wrestle these girls are going through a key stage in their emotional and psychological development as males in a society that expects them to be stronger than their female counterparts. So if they actually lose they suffer a kind of trauma that might well cause lasting effects (while in winning, they gain nothing, or even possibly feel guilty for physically dominating a girl). Think about it. High School is cruel, and a boy losing a wrestling match to a girl would be something they would likely never live down amongst their peers. It's strange to me that this doesn't seem to occur to most people.

Sorry, but I just don't agree with this. I lost to a girl (granted, it wasn't HIGH school, but nevertheless) and it didn't emotionally scar me for life. I went on to play 3 different sports throughout my high school career, prom king finalist, popular, etc etc. The only way something like that is going to psychologically change you in a negative way, is if you're mentally weak. If ANYTHING, it'll help you to become more focused in your efforts in order to avoid something so negatively percieved.

mkporter
02-21-2011, 04:34 PM
embedding disabled, but.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQLXYu6plhg

Also, this...

28086

Fedaykin
02-21-2011, 04:37 PM
I stand by my statement if you "spar with women and get beat" and are proud of it you must really be a puss......... Sparring is supposed to teach fundamentals for a real life scenario and men and women should be paired together, because in the real world its highly unlikely that a womans biggest adversary is gonna be another woman at least in a physical confrontation... sparring with men will help women overcome the fear/shock of the initial situation of getting hit or grabbed, etc. by a man, who generally are much stronger than women.......... except in your case........

LMAO You're a pathetic little boy. Do you realize that?

Irish Stout
02-21-2011, 04:43 PM
All I know is that when Zach dumped that girl wrestler on Saved by the Bell cause she could beat up boys, I was praying that I could get some sloppy seconds. She was hot.

OABB
02-21-2011, 04:43 PM
I would not only wrestle a chick, I would beat her ass. And as I was Boston crabbing her, I would say "this is for sex in the city and Justin bieber!"

Boobs McGee
02-21-2011, 04:46 PM
I would not only wrestle a chick, I would beat her ass. And as I was Boston crabbing her, I would say "this is for sex in the city and Justin bieber!"

I can safely say that the girl I wrestled started a lifelong lust for large breasts. Something about being an 8th grader with massive melons pressed against your forehead...the rest is history. Would've been MUCH cooler the second time with a little Boston Crab action though

TheReverend
02-21-2011, 04:47 PM
All I know is that when Zach dumped that girl wrestler on Saved by the Bell cause she could beat up boys, I was praying that I could get some sloppy seconds. She was hot.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0164179/

Agamemnon
02-21-2011, 04:50 PM
Sorry, but I just don't agree with this. I lost to a girl (granted, it wasn't HIGH school, but nevertheless) and it didn't emotionally scar me for life. I went on to play 3 different sports throughout my high school career, prom king finalist, popular, etc etc. The only way something like that is going to psychologically change you in a negative way, is if you're mentally weak. If ANYTHING, it'll help you to become more focused in your efforts in order to avoid something so negatively percieved.

You beat her the second time. And the first time you made it seem like you mostly lost due to awkwardness. Anyway, I'm not saying it's true in every instance. I'm simply saying that there's some potential for harm based on social expectations. And honestly I'm of the view that pretty much every adolescent that has ever existed is "mentally weak".

Pony Boy
02-21-2011, 04:52 PM
LMAO You're a pathetic little boy. Do you realize that?

Right...... I'm twice your age.......Hilarious!

Irish Stout
02-21-2011, 04:53 PM
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0164179/

Yep. Damn, that episode was from 1991! I was a horny 11 year old.

schaaf
02-21-2011, 04:55 PM
Also, this...

28086

Snooki deserved to get knocked the **** out

Fedaykin
02-21-2011, 04:56 PM
Right...... I'm twice your age.......Hilarious!

Someone that old with the mental age of a 13 year old is even more pathetic.

enjolras
02-21-2011, 04:57 PM
Wow... this thread just makes it clear that I live in a completely different PLANET than a lot of maners.

WTF is the big deal with wrestling a woman? If she wants to put herself in that situation (she earned her way into the tournament in the first place) than good for her. Compete and see who's better.

What the hell the is the problem with that?

Pony Boy
02-21-2011, 05:03 PM
Someone that old with the mental age of a 13 year old is even more pathetic.

Well that was fun but I'm done with you... so back to being a martial arts wannabe and sparring with girls and getting your ass kicked....

Irish Stout
02-21-2011, 05:04 PM
Wow... this thread just makes it clear that I live in a completely different PLANET than a lot of maners.

WTF is the big deal with wrestling a woman? If she wants to put herself in that situation (she earned her way into the tournament in the first place) than good for her. Compete and see who's better.

What the hell the is the problem with that?

I see no problem with it. Personally, I would have loved to have lost some wrestling matches to some ladies in High School. It would have been nice to have at least pretended I was getting hot and sweaty with some chicks in high school... but alas I didn't wrestle and I didn't have the pure woman magnetism I exude today.

Of course, I also see no problem for the dude declining to wrestle a girl either. Both ways make sense to me so I don't see why this thread is at 6 pages. Of course I'm just continually posting my own bs in here, so I guess I am part of the problem... or am I the solution. I am just like beer!

Mr.Meanie
02-21-2011, 05:10 PM
Wow... this thread just makes it clear that I live in a completely different PLANET than a lot of maners.

WTF is the big deal with wrestling a woman? If she wants to put herself in that situation (she earned her way into the tournament in the first place) than good for her. Compete and see who's better.

What the hell the is the problem with that?

There are a lot of fellas (notably in this thread) who would not like the idea that a girl beat them in anything, let alone something physical. They would feel emasculated.

enjolras
02-21-2011, 05:22 PM
There are a lot of fellas (notably in this thread) who would not like the idea that a girl beat them in anything, let alone something physical. They would feel emasculated.

My wife was a college track star. I'm used to being beaten by her in anything involving running. I guess I'm beat down enough not to care:)

HAT
02-21-2011, 05:27 PM
There are a lot of fellas (notably in this thread) who would not like the idea that a girl beat them in anything, let alone something physical. They would feel emasculated.

Which is retarded.

Lisa Leslie would school me at 1 on 1 or H-O-R-S-E
Danica Patrick would run me off the track
Ewa Mataya would run 6 racks of 9-ball on me before I got a shot
Laila Ali would smash my face in
Michelle Wie would beat me 10 & 8

If you get beat by a girl wrestler at a high school meet, the principle is the same....Chances are she trained harder, practiced more & wanted it more. Get better or STFU.

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 05:28 PM
Wow... this thread just makes it clear that I live in a completely different PLANET than a lot of maners.

WTF is the big deal with wrestling a woman? If she wants to put herself in that situation (she earned her way into the tournament in the first place) than good for her. Compete and see who's better.

What the hell the is the problem with that?

When I was... oh... 8 or so, this smaller kid ran up and jumped on my back and started hitting me. I spun around, got him in a headlock, then noticed it was a kid a year or two younger than me and let him go.

Fast forward to high school and nearly the same thing happened. I felt someone punch me in my back and spun around, snatched him up under the chin, lifted him up, and slammed him to the ground. It was only after his head was colliding with concrete that it clicked what had just happened. I was probably 16 and 200 lbs and he was about the same age but... maybe... 140-150 lbs.

In both situations, I thought because I hadn't started the issue, I should feel no guilt. If the kids wanted to start a fight with someone bigger than them, tough break. In the first one, they were threatening to call the police and get me kicked off the swim team I was on at the time but it didn't go anywhere. With the 2nd one, even though he hit me first, I was on the verge of being charged. I think the fact that they declined to go to the hospital is all that prevented it.

Now, if there were going to be no ramifications for either, I'd say play on. The fact that if he beats the ever-living **** out of her and she leaves with a broken arm, he's going to get crucified... that's not cool. People might claim they can accept the consequences but the first time little Suzy gets a serious injury, it wouldn't be the same. (See also: the only POW you can name, Jessica Lynch).

If you want boys and girls to be even, do it but quit beating around the bush with it. Don't set stipulations for the equality. If you're gonna jump in, do it full force and cap it with an f'ing cannonball. Don't say you're gonna swim then sit on the shore with your feet in the water.

alkemical
02-21-2011, 05:33 PM
How does this make this kid a hero?

The narcisism in this country is INSANE.

HAT
02-21-2011, 05:41 PM
How does this make this kid a hero?

The narcisism in this country is INSANE.

The list has been amended....

Surgeons
Fire Fighters
Soldiers
Philanthropists
Police Officers
Lifeguards
High school wrestlers who quit

Fedaykin
02-21-2011, 05:42 PM
If you get beat by a girl wrestler at a high school meet, the principle is the same....Chances are she trained harder, practiced more & wanted it more. Get better or STFU.

That's just crazy talk! Women are inherently inferior! Big strong men are better at everything by virtue of the fact that their genitalia is on the outside!

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 05:51 PM
That's just crazy talk! Women are inherently inferior! Big strong men are better at everything by virtue of the fact that their genitalia is on the outside!

So you are in favor of doing away with women's sports and making them just make it on the boys' squad or not play at all?

I can agree with that, I guess. Radical... but I can't argue the logic.

Fedaykin
02-21-2011, 06:01 PM
So you are in favor of doing away with women's sports and making them just make it on the boys' squad or not play at all?

I can agree with that, I guess. Radical... but I can't argue the logic.

Oh look, the misogynist learned how to argue with Red Herrings and Strawmen!

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 06:14 PM
Oh look, the misogynist learned how to argue with Red Herrings and Strawmen!

I said all along I want an all or nothing deal. I just don't want this to be a "when it's convenient" situation.

So yes or no. Do we divide sports or not?

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 06:15 PM
That's just crazy talk! Women are inherently inferior! Big strong men are better at everything by virtue of the fact that their genitalia is on the outside!

And I would say this is as much a strawman as anything used in this thread...

extralife
02-21-2011, 06:26 PM
Chivalry is not a moral order. Its a set of ethical values that elevates women to a high standard, and requires that a man put her before himself.

The best in this young man came out when he was under pressure. That's quite impressive.

Chivalry isn't moral it's just ethical!

those words mean the same thing buddy

chivalry isn't an anything except an antiquated medieval concept of how to deal with sexual pressures in a civilization (well, a class) in which they were to be ignored, as well as a means of condescending towards an entire group of people. it is a means of upholding a status quo that has invested the practitioner with power and prestige.

man how I long for feudalism and alchemy too!

schaaf
02-21-2011, 06:36 PM
The list has been amended....

Surgeons
Fire Fighters
Soldiers
Philanthropists
Police Officers
Lifeguards
High school wrestlers who quit

answer this.. How can you teach your son growing up that it is wrong to hit/slap/ or physically touch any woman, and then expect them to go out and physically beat a girl on the wrestling mat and expect him to think thats okay

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 06:39 PM
answer this.. How can you teach your son growing up that it is wrong to hit/slap/ or physically touch any woman, and then expect them to go out and physically beat a girl on the wrestling mat and expect him to think thats okay

I think the only responsible way to raise a kid these days is to teach him that equality is equality. They're going to get walked on and manipulated if they'll cater to being equals when most beneficial to the other party to be equals yet different when that becomes most beneficial.

Fedaykin
02-21-2011, 06:39 PM
I said all along I want an all or nothing deal. I just don't want this to be a "when it's convenient" situation.

Actually what you said is this girl should have had her face bashed in for daring to compete with the boys.


So yes or no. Do we divide sports or not?

False dilemma fallacy. Look you're expanding your skillset!


And I would say this is as much a strawman as anything used in this thread...


It'd only be a straw man if it didn't accurately (if sarcastically) describe the position of at least some people in this thread.

Dr. Broncenstein
02-21-2011, 06:40 PM
answer this.. How can you teach your son growing up that it is wrong to hit/slap/ or physically touch any woman, and then expect them to go out and physically beat a girl on the wrestling mat and expect him to think thats okay

I think the exception comes in when the girl is literally asking for it. Plus, just look at they way they are dressed. They deserve it.

extralife
02-21-2011, 06:41 PM
answer this.. How can you teach your son growing up that it is wrong to hit/slap/ or physically touch any woman, and then expect them to go out and physically beat a girl on the wrestling mat and expect him to think thats okay

because wrestling is a sport. do you teach your son to punch people in the face? no? then why is boxing ok! do you tackle people violently when you have a disagreement? but that's the heart of football!

this is not a difficult concept.

there are rules, safety precautions, strict weight divisions, a narrow band of allowable techniques, and point based scoring. you're not punching her in the face until she can't get up because you hate women. you are engaging in a specific, governed, premeditated activity in order to determine a winner. if women could not compete against men under these circumstances, then they would not, just as they do not in most other sports. obviously those with <i>actual knowledge</i> of the sport and the physical capabilities of teenage competitors have evidence that supports inter-gender competition. people backing out are saying nothing about women: they are saying things about themselves.

Fedaykin
02-21-2011, 06:42 PM
answer this.. How can you teach your son growing up that it is wrong to hit/slap/ or physically touch any woman, and then expect them to go out and physically beat a girl on the wrestling mat and expect him to think thats okay

Because hopefully you also teach your son the difference between real fighting and sport.

Do you not also teach your son that it's wrong to attack males?

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 06:46 PM
Actually what you said is this girl should have had her face bashed in for daring to compete with the boys.



False dilemma fallacy. Look you're expanding your skillset!



It'd only be a straw man if it didn't accurately (if sarcastically) describe the position of at least some people in this thread.

Yada yada yada.

So you're not going to say one way or the other? You want to imply that men are no different than women yet clearly you don't believe they can actually compete with men or you'd be in favor of just getting rid of the boundaries and letting them prove themselves.

And I said the girl should be taught to reconsider whether she wanted to play with the boys. If we make that an across the board situation so it's more mainstream, game on. I just don't want to see whining when 99% of all athletes are males.

schaaf
02-21-2011, 06:46 PM
Because hopefully you also teach your son the difference between real fighting and sport.

Do you not also teach your son that it's wrong to attack males?

Every wrestling match I ever competed in during high school was literally a fight. I would teach him that it is wrong to attack a male for no reason. If he has a reason to attack a male than it is okay but under NO circumstance is it okay to attack a female

HAT
02-21-2011, 06:47 PM
because wrestling is a sport. do you teach your son to punch people in the face? no? then why is boxing ok! do you tackle people violently when you have a disagreement? but that's the heart of football!

this is not a difficult concept.

there are rules, safety precautions, strict weight divisions, a narrow band of allowable techniques, and it's a point based sport. you're not punching her in the face until she can't get up because you hate women. you are engaging in a specific, governed, premeditated activity in order to determine a winner. if women could not compete against men under these circumstances, then they would not, just as they do not in most other sports. obviously those with <i>actual knowledge</i> of the sport and the physical capabilities of teenage competitors have evidence that supports inter-gender competition. people backing out are saying nothing about women: they are saying things about themselves.

Aaaaaaaand......

/thread

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 06:48 PM
Because hopefully you also teach your son the difference between real fighting and sport.

Do you not also teach your son that it's wrong to attack males?

I was always taught, and will teach my son, that if someone hits you, you hit them back. There wont always be someone to run to for your protection.

Do you think I should tell him to hit a girl that hits him as well? That's always been a more conservative situation as unless you're talking someone big and beefy, it's a different situation. Game on, I guess?

Finger Roll
02-21-2011, 06:54 PM
I would be so afraid to lose. Very possible since I would wrestle very gently. I'm afraid I would break her arms or ribs if I actually tried

Blart
02-21-2011, 07:06 PM
Girls being allowed to play on men's teams, with no regard to how the men feel about it.

I don't want men to be allowed to play on women's teams either, 'cause that is just stupid.

If there aren't enough women to start a women's wrestling league, then just tell these girls "no." Tell them to find another sport where there are women's leagues.

So you're upset that men aren't allowed to play on women's teams?

Wow, you're more progressive than I thought. And I agree.

Ideally there should be different skill levels for each sport without any gender, racial, or religious segregation.

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 07:12 PM
So you're upset that men aren't allowed to play on women's teams?

Wow, you're more progressive than I thought. And I agree.

Ideally, and this is the future of High School Sports in America (part of the top secret gay agenda) is that we'll see different skill levels for each sport without any gender, racial, or religious segregation.

They already have that.

They have Varsity football and then Junior Varsity football and then, if you can't make either of those, they have playground or recess football. They have play in your yard on Thanksgiving football. They have get some friends together and play in the park football.

If equality is equality then just make it so and if the girls aren't good enough to play, they can enjoy being equal with the fat kids sitting at home.

Don't turn around and make up a league to accomodate those who fought so viciously for equality. Make them strive to be the best - just like everyone that wanted to make the team has been doing for so long.

ghwk
02-21-2011, 07:12 PM
Snooki deserved to get knocked the **** out

Was that snooki? Damn she got popped!

ghwk
02-21-2011, 07:17 PM
answer this.. How can you teach your son growing up that it is wrong to hit/slap/ or physically touch any woman, and then expect them to go out and physically beat a girl on the wrestling mat and expect him to think thats okay

Because it's completely effing different and if you equate the two as the same you have done a crappy job as a parent in this day and age.

footstepsfrom#27
02-21-2011, 07:24 PM
The modern women, she's confused about who she is and who a man is. Then she wonders why here husband has no backbone and no leadership skills and takes no pride in his family.

Go figure.
Yeah...because they usually get confused BEFORE we cheat, lie and abandon don't they?

A man who has no backgone, leadership skills or pride in his family can probably point to his dad or lack of such as the primary reason, though I don't doubt a woman is the first scapegoat he's usually looking for...he probably saw that from "daddy" when he was beatin' on his mother.

Grow up hating an abusive father...become an abusive father.

Go figure.

extralife
02-21-2011, 07:27 PM
that Tombstone post is straight out of the 1890's. like word for word.

ghwk
02-21-2011, 07:27 PM
I talked to my wife about this, specifically mentioning that if a guy has nothing to gain, either he beat a girl or lost to one should he do it. Her response was the guy was a puss because he wouldn't fight because there was no win in this situation for him.

extralife
02-21-2011, 07:27 PM
life is a no win situation. get used to it.

ghwk
02-21-2011, 07:29 PM
life is a no win situation. get used to it.

See that's what's great about society today, if you are in a no win situation and you quit, a religious lunatic will call you a hero!

extralife
02-21-2011, 07:35 PM
and that's what it's about. it's about framing the narrative. people will call you a coward or a p***Y or a misogynist if you refuse to wrestle the girl, but some people will call you a hero. if you wrestle her, win, lose, whatever, no one is going to praise you. if some people call you a hero you can forget about those that call you other things--because then it is you versus them, and that's a comfortable place to be. especially for an athlete. very few athletes really want to win. what they want is a situation they can understand. you might lose, but at least you know why and how you lost, and at least you can spin it some way and move on to the next opponent. life isn't like that at all.

add in faith and you've got a cognitive kill switch. those that criticize you are doing so for political reasons--they don't really hate you, they hate your religion. you can't criticize faith without either looking like the bad guy, elevating the discussion from the particular to the general, or both(unless the faith is Islam, those guys are evil, natch). so you get out of it even better.

footstepsfrom#27
02-21-2011, 07:42 PM
The key being that adolescent females aren't really at a disadvantage physically yet, at least not like grown women are. I think we all knew a few girls in our teens that were as big and strong as most of the boys. That doesn't last.
Not really...MAYBE at age 13 you might be correct, but not beyond that. At age 17 as a generic HS football guy in the weight room I weighed 190 and benched 305, squat 430 and dead lifted 500 pounds. You'll be looking awhile to find a female at any age or weight that can put up half those numbers. It's simply ridiculous to compare the physical nature of men with women. Men, even as teenage boys, are far stronger in terms of brute strength, but let's also remember far weaker in terms of endurance over a lifetime to stress and other life hazards. Women can endure pain we can't, survive emotional trauma most men wouldn't and they live longer lives as a result.

Either that or they just drive us to the grave early. ;D

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 07:43 PM
Because it's completely effing different and if you equate the two as the same you have done a crappy job as a parent in this day and age.

I have to say, I pretty much made it a point to try and demolish my opponents in sports. If I could beat them, I'd be happy for the win. If I could embarrass them, I'd love that even more. If I could take them out of their game, slip some cheap shots or bumps just to piss them off, wonderful. You can't take the field/court/etc and not see the opponent as an enemy while still giving it every ounce of your being and effort.

I've never just walked up to someone on the streets and felt the same way. I would say how you treat someone in real life doesn't pertain to the sport but not because you can differentiate between the seriousness of the two - but because I always made it a point to forget about the person I was playing. Take the personal factor out of it. He was simply my enemy.

Personal me couldn't hurt a girl. Sports me would taunt her then pump my chest as I walked away while she lay on the mat sobbing. How personal me and sports me would reconcile seeing a girl done that way... I can't say.

extralife
02-21-2011, 07:44 PM
it's not about brute numbers. it's about wrestling. obviously someone somewhere with some professional knowledge has determined that exceptionally talented teenage female wrestlers can compete with teenage males of the same weight. the records of the girls that made state would seem to back that up. I'm sure some of their opponents probably didn't give it their best shot because they're honestly too young to be put in a situation that clashes with social values, but that's not on the girls. it's a learning experience for the boys. which is what high school sports are supposed to be about anyway.

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 07:46 PM
Not really...MAYBE at age 13 you might be correct, but not beyond that. At age 17 as a generic HS football guy in the weight room I weighed 190 and benched 305, squat 430 and dead lifted 500 pounds. You'll be looking awhile to find a female at any age or weight that can put up half those numbers. It's simply ridiculous to compare the physical nature of men with women. Men, even as teenage boys, are far stronger in terms of brute strength, but let's also remember far weaker in terms of endurance over a lifetime to stress and other life hazards. Women can endure pain we can't, survive emotional trauma most men wouldn't and they live longer lives as a result.

Either that or they just drive us to the grave early. ;D

Wow, a footsteps post I can agree with (Not that I know what you were benching in high school, the rest). I find it amazing that people are going to try to argue that there's no physical difference in the capabilities of males and females.

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 07:46 PM
it's not about brute numbers. it's about wrestling. obviously someone somewhere with some professional knowledge has determined that exceptionally talented teenage female wrestlers can compete with teenage males of the same weight. the records of the girls that made state would seem to back that up. I'm sure some of their opponents probably didn't give it their best shot because they're honestly too young to be put in a situation that clashes with social values, but that's not on the girls. it's a learning experience for the boys. which is what high school sports are supposed to be about anyway.

Unfortunately that person that said females could wrestle was probably more likely to be a lawyer or administrator than a sports coach. Quit trying to use that angle, it's silly.

extralife
02-21-2011, 07:50 PM
even if he's a lawyer he's going to need to appeal to professionals to get his way. that's sort of how things work. are all sports inter-gender in Iowa? I bet not!

really though, we don't need to ask a professional anyway. multiple females wrestlers made the state tournament. they had winning records over the course of the season. that's about all she wrote on that one.

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 07:59 PM
even if he's a lawyer he's going to need to appeal to professionals to get his way. that's sort of how things work. are all sports inter-gender in Iowa? I bet not!

really though, we don't need to ask a professional anyway. multiple females wrestlers made the state tournament. they had winning records over the course of the season. that's about all she wrote on that one.

I would say if there's not a female sport, the females have to be let on the team. That's nothing new or special. It's how we keep seeing the occasional girl ending up on a football team.

And without seeing more details about the situation, it's hard to say what she really deserved. Was it a perfect storm scenario and she just had no real competition? Did her coaches have a way of setting up her matches throughout the season to meet the opposition's weaker wrestlers?

All we do know is she got the forfeit win then got beat 5-1 by a guy who was promptly eliminated afterwards. From the effort they all seemed to make to highlight her accomplishments, it seems they would've made a mention if she was at least competitive in one of her matches - her or the other girl. It gave the one score just mentioned and nothing else on the matter.

According to the brackets, she went on in the loser round to get pinned in 1:21 to the guy who placed 3rd. It doesn't look like she ever stood a chance. In a quick glance, the only person I see that fell faster was someone named Megan... presumably the other girl?

ghwk
02-21-2011, 08:08 PM
I wonder how she felt grabbing a guys sack all season as well as getting tea bagged from time to time. Maybe when she gets together with the girls she is quizzed about what it was like wrestling sausages all year. Maybe we should be calling her a hero! ROFL!

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 08:09 PM
Just for fun:

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BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>35-4</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>89.74359</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>44-6</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>88</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>32-5</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>86.48649</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>28-5</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>84.84848</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>26-7</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>78.78788</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>22-6</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>78.57143</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>25-7</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>78.125</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>33-10</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>76.74419</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>25-9</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>73.52941</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>30-11</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>73.17073</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>29-13</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>69.04762</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>23-11</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>67.64706</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>25-13</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>65.78947</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>20-13</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>60.60606</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Those are the records and win percentages of everyone in that particular bracket. Can you guess which two are the girls? That's not suspicious?

HAT
02-21-2011, 08:10 PM
I find it amazing that people are going to try to argue that there's no physical difference in the capabilities of males and females.

Who argued that? What the people here who have actually wrestled are trying to tell you is that whatever physical (read: strength) advantage a male has over a similar weight female....It's minimized b/c wrestling is about much more than strength. Technique, leverage, agility, flexibility, endurance, & pain tolerance & discipline to make weight all play a part.

Wrestling is a great sport because you don't have to be 6 foot anything or a 200 pound musclehead. A fit 125 pound girl (think track & field body type) is at no significant physical disadvantage over an similar weight male. And my HS softball team had some meathead chicks that probably went 170 and were as strong as the 170 pound WR on the football team.

It's wrestling, not a friggin' back alley street fight. extralife summed that up best already.



there are rules, safety precautions, strict weight divisions, a narrow band of allowable techniques, and point based scoring. you're not punching her in the face until she can't get up because you hate women. you are engaging in a specific, governed, premeditated activity in order to determine a winner. if women could not compete against men under these circumstances, then they would not, just as they do not in most other sports. .

extralife
02-21-2011, 08:12 PM
I would say if there's not a female sport, the females have to be let on the team. That's nothing new or special. It's how we keep seeing the occasional girl ending up on a football team.

And without seeing more details about the situation, it's hard to say what she really deserved. Was it a perfect storm scenario and she just had no real competition? Did her coaches have a way of setting up her matches throughout the season to meet the opposition's weaker wrestlers?

All we do know is she got the forfeit win then got beat 5-1 by a guy who was promptly eliminated afterwards. From the effort they all seemed to make to highlight her accomplishments, it seems they would've made a mention if she was at least competitive in one of her matches - her or the other girl. It gave the one score just mentioned and nothing else on the matter.

According to the brackets, she went on in the loser round to get pinned in 1:21 to the guy who placed 3rd. It doesn't look like she ever stood a chance. In a quick glance, the only person I see that fell faster was someone named Megan... presumably the other girl?

Not <i>winning</i> doesn't mean she doesn't belong. There are plenty of guys that didn't make it to states. if she can compete, then she can compete. if she can't, then this never would have been a story in the first place. The chances of a girl winning states in wrestling (In Iowa no less) is slim to none, but then again the chances of most boys winning states is also slim to none.

Fedaykin
02-21-2011, 08:16 PM
Yada yada yada.

So you're not going to say one way or the other? You want to imply that men are no different than women yet clearly you don't believe they can actually compete with men or you'd be in favor of just getting rid of the boundaries and letting them prove themselves.


More Strawmen.


And I said the girl should be taught to reconsider whether she wanted to play with the boys. If we make that an across the board situation so it's more mainstream, game on. I just don't want to see whining when 99% of all athletes are males.

You can't whitewash it. You advocated bashing her face in to "teach her a lesson".

Dr. Broncenstein
02-21-2011, 08:17 PM
Who argued that? What the people here who have actually wrestled are trying to tell you is that whatever physical (read: strength) advantage a male has over a similar weight female....It's minimized b/c wrestling is about much more than strength. Technique, leverage, agility, flexibility, endurance, & pain tolerance & discipline to make weight all play a part.

Wrestling is a great sport because you don't have to be 6 foot anything or a 200 pound musclehead. A fit 125 pound girl (think track & field body type) is at no significant physical disadvantage over an similar weight male. And my HS softball team had some meathead chicks that probably went 170 and were as strong as the 170 pound WR on the football team.

It's wrestling, not a friggin' back alley street fight. extralife summed that up best already.

Replace the word "wrestling" with "mixed martial arts." Would that still be cool?

extralife
02-21-2011, 08:18 PM
so long as they could hold their own. which is unlikely

last time I checked they don't have high school cage fighting teams

Dr. Broncenstein
02-21-2011, 08:20 PM
so long as they could hold their own. which is unlikely

last time I checked they don't have high school cage fighting teams

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/23828211/

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/18/sports/othersports/18mma.html

TheReverend
02-21-2011, 08:20 PM
Not really...MAYBE at age 13 you might be correct, but not beyond that. At age 17 as a generic HS football guy in the weight room I weighed 190 and benched 305, squat 430 and dead lifted 500 pounds. You'll be looking awhile to find a female at any age or weight that can put up half those numbers. It's simply ridiculous to compare the physical nature of men with women. Men, even as teenage boys, are far stronger in terms of brute strength, but let's also remember far weaker in terms of endurance over a lifetime to stress and other life hazards. Women can endure pain we can't, survive emotional trauma most men wouldn't and they live longer lives as a result.

Either that or they just drive us to the grave early. ;D

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aS-bfd8I12M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

^ She's 123 lbs and looks like this:

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2007/10/04/490419/gallerypic/1131271.jpg

Fedaykin
02-21-2011, 08:20 PM
Every wrestling match I ever competed in during high school was literally a fight. I would teach him that it is wrong to attack a male for no reason. If he has a reason to attack a male than it is okay but under NO circumstance is it okay to attack a female

Why is it not OK for him to defend himself from a female?

You say that "under no circumstance is it ok to attack a female". Are you seriously saying you would tell your son not to hit a female that was attacking him with a knife?

In any situation and against any opponent, one should respond to attack with appropriate force.

extralife
02-21-2011, 08:21 PM
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/23828211/

ok

not that that story mentioned high school at all

TheReverend
02-21-2011, 08:23 PM
Btw, Kara Bohigian's big 3 lifts were all bigger than yours (and mine lol) at 148 lbs footsteps

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Wpw-NcYXDIQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Dr. Broncenstein
02-21-2011, 08:24 PM
ok

not that that story mentioned high school at all

You must have missed the other link. But here's another (http://martialarts.about.com/b/2009/10/10/wrestler-sues-high-school-for-allowing-an-mma-style-match-to-go-on.htm). It's pretty simple, really. I just typed "mixed martial arts high school" into the googleweb.

footstepsfrom#27
02-21-2011, 08:25 PM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aS-bfd8I12M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

^ She's 123 lbs and looks like this:

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2007/10/04/490419/gallerypic/1131271.jpg
Like I said, you'll be looking awhile. But there's always the exception proving the rule. Plus looking at those arms, I'm thinking she'll max about 90 pounds on the bench.

*EDIT- I stand corrected, she put up 186, which is a world record for women in that weight class. I played ball with a little dude in HS who was 5'3", 125 and pressed 300. That's high school...I think that's my point. Even the rare girl who can do stuff like this is still miles behind her male counterparts.

On the flip side...ever see a man try to do the stuff female gymnasts do? He'd break his neck.

schaaf
02-21-2011, 08:27 PM
Why is it not OK for him to defend himself from a female?

You say that "under no circumstance is it ok to attack a female". Are you seriously saying you would tell your son not to hit a female that was attacking him with a knife?

In any situation and against any opponent, one should respond to attack with appropriate force.

Did you really go there??? I was not talking about if she was coming at him with a ****ing knife. I have been a situation where a girl has come at me and started throwing fists and I just took it and waited until she finally stopped and if a girl comes at you and starts throwing haymakers and you knock her ass out it will be a very short time before you are spending time behind bars.

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 08:27 PM
Who argued that? What the people here who have actually wrestled are trying to tell you is that whatever physical (read: strength) advantage a male has over a similar weight female....It's minimized b/c wrestling is about much more than strength. Technique, leverage, agility, flexibility, endurance, & pain tolerance & discipline to make weight all play a part.

Wrestling is a great sport because you don't have to be 6 foot anything or a 200 pound musclehead. A fit 125 pound girl (think track & field body type) is at no significant physical disadvantage over an similar weight male. And my HS softball team had some meathead chicks that probably went 170 and were as strong as the 170 pound WR on the football team.

It's wrestling, not a friggin' back alley street fight. extralife summed that up best already.

Fedaykin made this statement in obvious mockery but seeing as he refuses to say whether or not women should have their own sport, I believe he sincerely believes there are no inherent differences.

That's just crazy talk! Women are inherently inferior! Big strong men are better at everything by virtue of the fact that their genitalia is on the outside!

It's simple. Either women and men are the same or they're different. If they're the same, then all sports should be integrated. If they're different, they shouldn't be putting one individual's principles on the line when he faces the rare occurance. He obviously thinks there's a difference and since we still have male OR female sports, I think society agrees.


More Strawmen.



You can't whitewash it. You advocated bashing her face in to "teach her a lesson".

So you refuse to answer my question? Why is it so hard to say what you think. Either women and men should have different sports or they shouldn't. You clearly have an opinion on the matter, why hide it? Is it detrimental to your argument?

And I said it would teach the family/society/etc a lesson. My exact post:

Sadly I think the best thing that could happen would be to send a girl out with a boy that doesn't give a **** and let him smash her face. Let the girl leave the mat pouring blood, looking to her family... see if everyone is so willing to send their little girl into boy's play again.

It is society that needs to stop pushing this nonsense. She wouldn't just wake up with a wild notion to start wrestling with boys if society weren't chirping in her ear all day long that men and women are perfectly equal. There are some things we can do equally (most jobs in the workforce) so I'm not saying to chain women to their stoves but women and men are not cloned copies of each other with a wang attached to one.

TheReverend
02-21-2011, 08:28 PM
Like I said, you'll be looking awhile. But there's always the exception proving the rule.

And those exceptions to the rule have a right to compete.

HAT
02-21-2011, 08:31 PM
I would say if there's not a female sport, the females have to be let on the team. That's nothing new or special. It's how we keep seeing the occasional girl ending up on a football team.

And without seeing more details about the situation, it's hard to say what she really deserved. Was it a perfect storm scenario and she just had no real competition? Did her coaches have a way of setting up her matches throughout the season to meet the opposition's weaker wrestlers?


Dude...You've obviously never wrestled scholastically. For dual meets at the varsity level, only your top wrestler at a given weight class competes against the other schools top wrestler in that class. There are no exhibition matches or out of weight class matches like there are with JV & frosh teams.

In other words, she had to beat similar weight wrestlers at her own school to even take the mat at meets, than she had to have a good enough league record to qualify for the city or district tourney, then maybe a regional & then state.

Apparently she got smoked once she got to state (the best of the best). So what? She earned the right to be there.

extralife
02-21-2011, 08:33 PM
You must have missed the other link. But here's another (http://martialarts.about.com/b/2009/10/10/wrestler-sues-high-school-for-allowing-an-mma-style-match-to-go-on.htm). It's pretty simple, really. I just typed "mixed martial arts high school" into the googleweb.

ok.

my point is I still answered the question. I don't think you have a point.

Missouribronc
02-21-2011, 08:33 PM
It's a terribly ignorant to argue that he should just show her how violent the sport is by beating her senseless, when she's already made the state tournament.

It's brutal getting to a state tournament in wrestling in the the midwest. Absolutely brutal. She already did that. She can handle it. I've now seen two women wrestlers on the local team, one made the state tournament. No one ever seemed to have a problem with it.

I don't have a problem with her wrestling. I don't have a problem with him defaulting. Both are their choices, and both should be allowed by the high school governing body.

Where I have the problem is when equality is denied in opposite. Why are there no male volleyball players on female teams? Obviously that's unequal, unless you live in California. Why are male and female softball teams kept separate? (And yes, there are male softball teams at small schools in rural Missouri). Equality is equality. Not when it benefits one gender/race/person, and not another.

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 08:34 PM
Dude...You've obviously never wrestled scholastically. For dual meets at the varsity level, only your top wrestler at a given weight class competes against the other schools top wrestler in that class. There are no exhibition matches or out of weight class matches like there are with JV & frosh teams.

In other words, she had to beat similar weight wrestlers at her own school to even take the mat at meets, than she had to have a good enough league record to qualify for the city or district tourney, then maybe a regional & then state.

Apparently she got smoked once she got to state (the best of the best). So what? She earned the right to be there.

No, I never did. So you're saying she was THE representative for her school from that weight group? The only person from her school that wrestled the only person from the opposing school's weight group?

Missouribronc
02-21-2011, 08:35 PM
No, I never did. So you're saying she was THE representative for her school from that weight group?

Yes.

Plus, on top of that, she was the DISTRICT's fourth representative, meaning she probably beat 12 other wrestlers to get there.

Dr. Broncenstein
02-21-2011, 08:37 PM
I asked my wife (who is a physician as well) what she would think if any of our three daughters wanted to rastle competitively. She's all "well, if that's what she really wants to do... and it makes her happy... blah blah." The nerve of that woman. I guess that's what I should have expected from someone who already is violating the natural order of the universe. I was just worried about the future guys wanting to get in their pants. Now I have to deal with this shiat.

Jason in LA
02-21-2011, 08:39 PM
If a girl is standing between me and a state title, she's going down!

All jokes aside (well, she'd really be going down), some boy will have to beat her. If every boy takes his same stance then she'll end up as state champion. Of her and the other girl will meet in the finals. So if some boy has to beat her, it might as well be the first boy to face her.

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 08:39 PM
It's a terribly ignorant to argue that he should just show her how violent the sport is by beating her senseless, when she's already made the state tournament.

It's brutal getting to a state tournament in wrestling in the the midwest. Absolutely brutal. She already did that. She can handle it. I've now seen two women wrestlers on the local team, one made the state tournament. No one ever seemed to have a problem with it.

I don't have a problem with her wrestling. I don't have a problem with him defaulting. Both are their choices, and both should be allowed by the high school governing body.

Where I have the problem is when equality is denied in opposite. Why are there no male volleyball players on female teams? Obviously that's unequal, unless you live in California. Why are male and female softball teams kept separate? (And yes, there are male softball teams at small schools in rural Missouri). Equality is equality. Not when it benefits one gender/race/person, and not another.

Generally my stance as well. I personally believe that there is absolutely a difference in males and females. If there is not, I would like to see male and female sports merged. You just can't have it both ways.

I watched a female football player years ago in, I believe, a college game. She was like a backup kicker or something and she was finally going to get to take a kick because her coach said she "tried so hard, she deserved it". It wasn't because she was the best option. It was because she tried hard. Do you think there weren't a half dozen men sitting on that bench in reserve who tried hard every day? Did they get to play in that game just because they gave it their all? Nope. They stayed on the benches where men do every game who try hard but just aren't good enough.

She proceeded to take the field and attempt a PAT. It got blocked. I loved it.

Give me true equality or GTFO.

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 08:40 PM
Yes.

Plus, on top of that, she was the DISTRICT's fourth representative, meaning she probably beat 12 other wrestlers to get there.

Thanks. More research to do.

footstepsfrom#27
02-21-2011, 08:41 PM
Btw, Kara Bohigian's big 3 lifts were all bigger than yours (and mine lol) at 148 lbs footsteps
Indeed...once again however you're talking about a) someone devoted to training for the sport vs. your average HS football dude, b) you're talking about 30 years worth of training and nutrition advances and c) you're probably literally talking about 1 in 500,000 women who could do that vs. probably a dozen random dudes in most any local gym who could do it. Exceptions prove rules...

Having said all that, I wouldn't mess with her. ;D

Jason in LA
02-21-2011, 08:43 PM
One other point. If this was a regular season meet, then I can see a guy doing that. But it's for a title. He should have put her down easy without hurting her and moved on. I don't think I could have let a seasons worth of work go down the drain over that.

Blart
02-21-2011, 08:45 PM
Right now there are more women going to college than men and there are more women entering the workforce than men.

I'm all for equal pay for equal work, and as the workforce changes to become predominantly women, I'm sure this will change too.

Congrats broseff, you are helping with your own marginalization.

I SAW THIS COMIN' WHEN WE LET BROADS VOTE!

Missouribronc
02-21-2011, 08:46 PM
Just for fun:

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BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>35-4</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>89.74359</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>44-6</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>88</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>32-5</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>86.48649</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>28-5</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>84.84848</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>26-7</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>78.78788</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>22-6</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>78.57143</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>25-7</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>78.125</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>33-10</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>76.74419</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>25-9</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>73.52941</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>30-11</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>73.17073</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>29-13</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>69.04762</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>23-11</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>67.64706</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>25-13</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>65.78947</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=20>20-13</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>60.60606</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Those are the records and win percentages of everyone in that particular bracket. Can you guess which two are the girls? That's not suspicious?

No. I cannot guess.

Its the same as any sport. There is a loser and a winner. That means at the district level, there are wrestlers who are 4-20, just as much as there are wrestlers who are 20-4.

These two particular women wrestlers happened to have winning records and qualify for the state tournament by placing in the top of their district.

They earned their spot there, and that shouldn't be questioned. If you want to question the legitimacy of women wrestling, I get that, but not the legitimacy of these individual women reaching the state tournament. They certainly earned it, and I've witnessed women doing the same first hand. Hell, I've witnessed a woman placing in the Top 6 in the state at the highest classification.

footstepsfrom#27
02-21-2011, 08:47 PM
Times have changed. Back in 4th grade I remember this kid named Rodney King (not that one) punched a girl out on the playground. I think his ass got beat like every other day afterwards for the rest of the year by other boys who took offense. Today if that happened they'd probably join in and help him.

vancejohnson82
02-21-2011, 08:51 PM
One other point. If this was a regular season meet, then I can see a guy doing that. But it's for a title. He should have put her down easy without hurting her and moved on. I don't think I could have let a seasons worth of work go down the drain over that.

exactly

Fedaykin
02-21-2011, 08:52 PM
Did you really go there??? I was not talking about if she was coming at him with a ****ing knife. I have been a situation where a girl has come at me and started throwing fists and I just took it and waited until she finally stopped and if a girl comes at you and starts throwing haymakers and you knock her ass out it will be a very short time before you are spending time behind bars.

You made the absolute statement. Should I take the above as you withdrawing that statement?

HAT
02-21-2011, 08:53 PM
Thanks. More research to do.

Yeah...I'm with you that the chick kicker shouldn't have got a free pass but I can assure you that was not the case with this wrestler girl. Especially in a state like Iowa. Varsity wrestling is a different animal in that you earn your mat time.

BTW, apparently only 5 states do have all girl wrestling tourneys. California, Hawaii, Tennessee, Texas and Washington.

Fedaykin
02-21-2011, 08:55 PM
Fedaykin made this statement in obvious mockery but seeing as he refuses to say whether or not women should have their own sport, I believe he sincerely believes there are no inherent differences.


Sadly your reading comprehension is just as poor as your ethic. I made no statement saying there are no inherent differences between women and men.


So you refuse to answer my question? Why is it so hard to say what you think. Either women and men should have different sports or they shouldn't. You clearly have an opinion on the matter, why hide it? Is it detrimental to your argument?


Once again your propose a false dilemma.

HAT
02-21-2011, 08:55 PM
One other point. If this was a regular season meet, then I can see a guy doing that. But it's for a title. He should have put her down easy without hurting her and moved on. I don't think I could have let a seasons worth of work go down the drain over that.

For sure. He technically still had a shot though b/c it was double elim.

anon
02-21-2011, 08:57 PM
I agree and disagree at the same time. High school is cruel but the expectation that males are better than females in any given athletic situation is antiquated and selectively applied. For example, if boys and girls competed against one another in gymnastics, there would be no such expectation and no shame in losing to a female. Why? Because society accepts that females are good gymnasts. And gymnastics is probably one of the most rigorous sports out there.

In reality, it should not be any different than a big muscular dude getting his ass kicked by a smaller, more skilled opponent in a MMA fight. The only difference is that athletes who compete realize that defeat in supposedly lopsided contests has nothing to do with masculinity and everything to do with skill.

The so-called trauma and/or lack of positive gain from a victory over a female is just a manifestation of some outdated attitudes.

EDIT: I should also note that I respect the guy's refusal to wrestle, either based on his stated religious beliefs or simply in protest. I honestly don't care enough either way to agree or disagree with his decision.


Again this is something that is being lost in all of this. The boys that are being asked to wrestle these girls are going through a key stage in their emotional and psychological development as males in a society that expects them to be stronger than their female counterparts. So if they actually lose they suffer a kind of trauma that might well cause lasting effects (while in winning, they gain nothing, or even possibly feel guilty for physically dominating a girl). Think about it. High School is cruel, and a boy losing a wrestling match to a girl would be something they would likely never live down amongst their peers. It's strange to me that this doesn't seem to occur to most people.

That One Guy
02-21-2011, 08:58 PM
One other point. If this was a regular season meet, then I can see a guy doing that. But it's for a title. He should have put her down easy without hurting her and moved on. I don't think I could have let a seasons worth of work go down the drain over that.

Apparently he faced the same situation in the regular season and refused to wrestle her then. Three other guys refused to wrestle her during the season as well.

footstepsfrom#27
02-21-2011, 09:13 PM
And those exceptions to the rule have a right to compete.
I haven't said they don't. But I'm like this kid, personally there's no way I could wrestle, box or otherwise compete against a female in a highly violent sport. My dad taught an old fashioned chivalry/respect for girls and reinforced his belief with a leather belt when I was 8 and hit my kid sister. He pulled down my britches and whipped the tar outta my bare ass. In HS football you're trying your best to knock the crap out of the guy in front of you. Could you line up and mentally tell yourself you're going to knock the living **** out of a girl? I couldn't, but then again I'm old school. You probably have dudes now who'd love that chance. Like I said, times have changed.

DarkHorse30
02-21-2011, 09:27 PM
Girls shouldn't be in mixed gender wrestling or football.

The guy obviously didn't want to wrestle the girl because he thought it was stupid that she's even wrestling.......and so does most of America. Title IX is a mess and needs to be reworked, if this is what it keeps coming up with.

broncocalijohn
02-21-2011, 09:28 PM
No, I never did. So you're saying she was THE representative for her school from that weight group? The only person from her school that wrestled the only person from the opposing school's weight group?

Many schools forfeited the lowest weight (normally 98 pounds) from lack of small dudes that can perform at varsity. Even at JV, I would wrestle in tournaments and I got a freebie. A few times in Frosh/Soph I got a free pass. Too many fat kids in 9th and 10th grade even 25 years ago (****, it has been that long since I wrestled).
As for the chick, I would go Johnny in Karate Kid and show no mercy in line of the rules. You want to hang with the boys, you gonna be leg sweeped and put as much B.O. on your face as possible when I switch to one side from another before I craddle you into submission of the pin. After I shake her hand after creaming her, I ask her if she wants to go on a date to the movies.

ghwk
02-21-2011, 09:30 PM
I asked my wife (who is a physician as well) what she would think if any of our three daughters wanted to rastle competitively. She's all "well, if that's what she really wants to do... and it makes her happy... blah blah." The nerve of that woman. I guess that's what I should have expected from someone who already is violating the natural order of the universe. I was just worried about the future guys wanting to get in their pants. Now I have to deal with this shiat.

Well if you had to prioritize I would probably be a lot more worried about the boys in the pants part. :wiggle:

ghwk
02-21-2011, 09:37 PM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aS-bfd8I12M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

^ She's 123 lbs and looks like this:

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2007/10/04/490419/gallerypic/1131271.jpg

The question for me here is not whether or not I can win, but how soon can I get on the mat with her? :wiggle:

schaaf
02-21-2011, 09:40 PM
You made the absolute statement. Should I take the above as you withdrawing that statement?

You are completely correct. When I said that a man should in NO CIRCUMSTANCE hit a woman I meant that even if a girl is attacking him with a ****ing knife that he better not defend himself because its not like she is trying to murder him.

I also meant that when women have a gun to a mans ****ing head they are not allowed to do anything to hurt the woman.

Any sane person could easily tell that is what I meant. Don't be a douche

DivineBronco
02-21-2011, 09:40 PM
Girls shouldn't be in mixed gender wrestling or football.

The guy obviously didn't want to wrestle the girl because he thought it was stupid that she's even wrestling.......and so does most of America. Title IX is a mess and needs to be reworked, if this is what it keeps coming up with.

I mean this in all seriousness are you doing a character like Colbert or do you believe the pro crazytown things you say

DarkHorse30
02-21-2011, 09:49 PM
I mean this in all seriousness are you doing a character like Colbert or do you believe the pro crazytown things you say

Colbert has a bad ear.....have you seen it? It's deformed; I can't even look at him without vomiting.

......and no, I don't believe anything I say.

http://www.eagleforum.org/topics/TitleIX/jessica.pdf

Inkana7
02-21-2011, 09:53 PM
From what little I've read on this topic, it doesn't seem like the girl has anywhere else to wrestle besides on the Boy's team. If there is no other place for her to wrestle and she wants to, I see no problem with her participating with boys.

broncocalijohn
02-21-2011, 10:15 PM
From what little I've read on this topic, it doesn't seem like the girl has anywhere else to wrestle besides on the Boy's team. If there is no other place for her to wrestle and she wants to, I see no problem with her participating with boys.

I dont think this has much to do with what is wrong with Title IX. The boys wrestling team never went away and there was never a girl's wrestling team. With weight classes, nobody has a strong advantage over a female unless we are talking heavier divisions. Lower divisions are hoovering around 100 pounds to 120. I dont think many girls can compete at a high level past 112.

bcbronc
02-21-2011, 10:21 PM
I can totally sympathize with the kid wrestler. when I wrestled in high school, there was a guy 1-2 weight classes below me that only had one leg. no way would I have ever wrestled that guy. screw my season, I'd have forfeited instead.

it's pretty gross when you think about it. what if I touched his stump? What if I liked it??? can't take that chance, nope.

plus, it was really a no win for me. if I win, people would have been mad at me for beating a guy with one leg. and if I lose, it would have been humiliating. How would I ever live that down? sure, I would have won the match and got to move on in the [State] championships. but other than that, it's just a no-win situation so I would have just walked away. Because, if I lose to someone disabled, what would that make me?

besides, my dad always taught me that it's wrong to beat up the handicap kids at school. It would have torn my young soul apart, trying to balance what I know is wrong (beating up handicap kids) with trying to win a wrestling match. sure, my coaches used to rattle on about respecting your opponent and the sport, yada yada yada. but he wouldn't have been a real opponent, he only had one leg!

I always felt really bad for the kids on my team that did have to wrestle against him. It made them feel uncomfortable, and that's just not right. I get that he wanted to wrestle, and there might not be enough amputees wanting to wrestle to have it's own [State] final. but **** him, that's not my problem. if I'm not comfortable with it, that should be the end of the discussion.

luckily, I never had to make that choice. I really believe I would have been able to hero up and forfeit the match though. it would have been absolutely priceless to see my coach's reaction when I told him I was forfeiting a match in the [States] because wrestling an opponent with one leg is against my religion.

Archer81
02-21-2011, 10:23 PM
it's pretty gross when you think about it. what if I touched his stump? What if I liked it??? can't take that chance, nope.


Uhh...what?


:Broncos:

extralife
02-21-2011, 10:24 PM
pretty sure he's lolin bro

Fedaykin
02-21-2011, 10:33 PM
You are completely correct. When I said that a man should in NO CIRCUMSTANCE hit a woman I meant that even if a girl is attacking him with a ****ing knife that he better not defend himself because its not like she is trying to murder him.

I also meant that when women have a gun to a mans ****ing head they are not allowed to do anything to hurt the woman.

Any sane person could easily tell that is what I meant. Don't be a douche

Wow, what a messed up point of view. Women should be allowed to attack and/or kill men with impunity?

broncocalijohn
02-21-2011, 10:37 PM
One legged wrestler? Advantage ME! He is bopping up and down to stay balance and I am looking at that one leg like a fox looks at a hen....DINNER TIME! I just would hope that when I went to cradle him, I am on his half leg side and tell him, "I chose this side so I can watch your only foot wiggle and flap around while I pin you." If I could go back at my same 98 weight, I would be the ass like that on the mat then be totally cool once the match was over. Probably make him cry but that's wrestling.

schaaf
02-21-2011, 10:46 PM
Wow, what a messed up point of view. Women should be allowed to attack and/or kill men with impunity?

you really must be an idiot. That entire post was sarcasm to help you see that If a girl is trying to MURDER someone that is not okay. But if a girl is simply hitting you, you are not allowed to hit her back.

I still can't tell if you took that last post completely serious.

Please help me better understand your thinking

ghwk
02-21-2011, 11:02 PM
One legged wrestler? Advantage ME! He is bopping up and down to stay balance and I am looking at that one leg like a fox looks at a hen....DINNER TIME! I just would hope that when I went to cradle him, I am on his half leg side and tell him, "I chose this side so I can watch your only foot wiggle and flap around while I pin you." If I could go back at my same 98 weight, I would be the ass like that on the mat then be totally cool once the match was over. Probably make him cry but that's wrestling.

I'm thinking Monty Python and the guy saying it's just a flesh wound...

Butterscotch Stallion
02-21-2011, 11:18 PM
OMG! Pretty soon they'll want to vote too! This kid isn't a hero, and he isn't a coward either. If a woman wants to compete, and accepts that she doesn't get preferential treatment, then I'm all for it. Being an advocate for strong women doesn't mean you can't be a strong man.

And btw, 100 post rule.



Go outside and enjoy the outdoors, get some sun in sunny San Diego. A physical activity like riding a bike or walking on the warm sand will help you worry less about the # of posts I have in order to have the privilege to create a thread. I'M SORRY I FORGET TO READ THE RULE BOOK! I don't give a **** about the 100 post rule you douche!

I just thought this story was so ridiculous that it was worth posting. Because we live in a world when it's politically incorrect to decline a wrestling match when your opponent is a woman, its an upside down world. Believe it or not women and men are not the same, there are many differences. I'm all for strong women, **** I wish the WNBA (we got next) sold more tickets received more TV time. When the UCONN Women's basketball team had over 80 consecutive victories, which was an incredible achievement no one gave a rat's ass why? Because they will never be able to compete with men physically in sports, ever.

extralife
02-21-2011, 11:19 PM
I'm pretty sure you haven't even read the thread you created

broncocalijohn
02-21-2011, 11:20 PM
He does give us the nice, gay, Indian guy as an avatar so Blart says , "Hell yeah!"

Blart
02-21-2011, 11:26 PM
There are differences between men and women, and as your picture above proves, there are differences between women and women.

It's a strange world so at some point a great knuckleball pitcher, kicker, or even lineman (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/football/2007-08-15-mangold_N.htm) will be female. Here's hoping she won't be the daughter of any traditionalists in this thread, and will have a supportive family. She'll need it.

schaaf
02-21-2011, 11:34 PM
I'm too drunk to taste this chicken- Colonel Sanders

Garcia Bronco
02-22-2011, 06:04 AM
I am glad the kid stuck to his beliefs. That's important. I respect that. Personally I would have fought. I believe in treating everyone the same.

TheReverend
02-22-2011, 06:28 AM
I haven't said they don't. But I'm like this kid, personally there's no way I could wrestle, box or otherwise compete against a female in a highly violent sport. My dad taught an old fashioned chivalry/respect for girls and reinforced his belief with a leather belt when I was 8 and hit my kid sister. He pulled down my britches and whipped the tar outta my bare ass. In HS football you're trying your best to knock the crap out of the guy in front of you. Could you line up and mentally tell yourself you're going to knock the living **** out of a girl? I couldn't, but then again I'm old school. You probably have dudes now who'd love that chance. Like I said, times have changed.

Honestly, in a helmet and pads itd be easy to not be faced with the reality, so probably. Not to mention the behemoth that would probably be playing coed football at a non finesse position would most likely be indisdinguishable from a man.

jhns
02-22-2011, 06:39 AM
The kid was home schooled. It is obvious what the problem was. He hasn't been around girls and didn't want to show off the boner that would have come from his first contact with one.

Garcia Bronco
02-22-2011, 07:09 AM
Honestly, in a helmet and pads itd be easy to not be faced with the reality, so probably. Not to mention the behemoth that would probably be playing coed football at a non finesse position would most likely be indisdinguishable from a man.

When I was young we played neighborhood football. This girl would come out and play. Everybody would take it easy on her. I did not distinguish between her or anyone else on the other team. I would drill her when I got the chance and she appreciated it.