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BroncoBuff
02-19-2011, 01:54 PM
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/3193/sansabp.jpg

Apple makes the greatest products ever, we all know that, right? For example here: The Apple iPod Shuffle vs. Sansa Clip Plus: Sure, the Sansa Clip saves you 8 bucks, but you have to lug around 2 extra giga-bytes of memory! Plus the Clip has an FM radio, a digital voice recorder and a display readout ... none on the Shuffle.

Who needs all that extra stuff? Now the Clip even has a 32gb micro-SD slot. Sansa seems desperate to me, desperate to be as cool as Apple.

Mogulseeker
02-19-2011, 02:01 PM
Apple is sexy.

I don't need a radio. My iPhone has 32gigs of memory and the only thing I used my shuffle for is my workout mix, which takes up less than 1gb.

Pass. :P

Chris
02-19-2011, 02:08 PM
Apple's popularity is largely about marketing. They convince people they're "just better" (they certainly have good user experience designers and make slick looking products) and people fork out their cash because they're intimidated by technology. They have no reason to be.

I'm about to start a home recording hobby and everyone I talk to keeps telling me "You have to get an Apple Macbook Pro". Why? No one can give me a real answer. "It just works better", "I've had a better experience", etc. with no specifics as to what's different... what's better.

I realise their UI is simpler for people that have never used computers before... but I don't need that and let's be real most people don't. Their popularity (to me) really shows that people prefer convenience over everything else... Apple really gets that and they charge through the nose for it.

My experience with Apples (all my yuptacular NY friends have one) is that they get slower faster. The OS updates and new programs are all designed to force you to upgrade. That's a double no-no for me on top of a product that starts at $1000 more for the equivalent specs on a PC. It's great business... but it's completely transparent to me. They have such cultish marketing that no one really seems to notice this. They're too busy staring at the logo.

It also seems like Steve Jobs decided that being the underdog in the 90s caused them to lose the OS battle to Microsoft and so now he's playing "no more mr. nice guy". Their actions are increasingly monopolistic... they want 30% of all store revenue in the US and 40% in Europe. That's ridiculous and arrogant and it's understandably pissing of all the media companies. They want to control everything you on a machine by forcing you to go through them and limiting the transfer of files.

I think they're a cynical company. They come across as a "product" company to me, not a technology company. I think they're anti-technology because technology is all about empowering people with the flexibility / freedom to do whatever they want. Apple thinks it is the future alone when tech is all about collaboration and this stems back to Jobs' arrogance.

montrose
02-19-2011, 02:10 PM
lol. I actually like Zune bit instead of getting one I'm thinking about waiting till Windows Phone makes it's way to CDMA - although it'll be tough to give up my Droid.

Taco John
02-19-2011, 02:15 PM
That sansa actually looks pretty cool.

schaaf
02-19-2011, 02:23 PM
lol. I actually like Zune bit instead of getting one I'm thinking about waiting till Windows Phone makes it's way to CDMA - although it'll be tough to give up my Droid.

Yeah, I am really wondering how that Windows phone will be

BroncoBuff
02-19-2011, 02:43 PM
That sansa actually looks pretty cool.

Definitely, this is my second Clip and they might be the best consumer electronic items I've ever owned.

Of course this is audio only, no video ... but for what it is the Clip is flawless really. The user interface is 100% intuitive, it has a 5-band equalizer with presets and user-defined settings. And the capper is Sansa does you the favor of a universal mini-USB connector. All these proprietary connectors are a real pet peeve, especially cell phone chargers.

Weirdest part of the iPod Shuffle ... there's no readout, no display, so they have a "VoiceOver tell you the song title, playlist and battery status." Sounds kinda creepy, I don't want to hear an electronic voice yapping at me between songs.

Punisher
02-19-2011, 02:44 PM
Apple stocks suck

bowtown
02-19-2011, 02:52 PM
Apple's popularity is largely about marketing. They convince people they're "just better" (they certainly have good user experience designers and make slick looking products) and people fork out their cash because they're intimidated by technology. They have no reason to be.

I'm about to start a home recording hobby and everyone I talk to keeps telling me "You have to get an Apple Macbook Pro". Why? No one can give me a real answer. "It just works better", "I've had a better experience", etc. with no specifics as to what's different... what's better.

I realise their UI is simpler for people that have never used computers before... but I don't need that and let's be real most people don't. Their popularity (to me) really shows that people prefer convenience over everything else... Apple really gets that and they charge through the nose for it.

My experience with Apples (all my yuptacular NY friends have one) is that they get slower faster. The OS updates and new programs are all designed to force you to upgrade. That's a double no-no for me on top of a product that starts at $1000 more for the equivalent specs on a PC. It's great business... but it's completely transparent to me. They have such cultish marketing that no one really seems to notice this. They're too busy staring at the logo.

It also seems like Steve Jobs decided that being the underdog in the 90s caused them to lose the OS battle to Microsoft and so now he's playing "no more mr. nice guy". Their actions are increasingly monopolistic... they want 30% of all store revenue in the US and 40% in Europe. That's ridiculous and arrogant and it's understandably pissing of all the media companies. They want to control everything you on a machine by forcing you to go through them and limiting the transfer of files.

I think they're a cynical company. They come across as a "product" company to me, not a technology company. I think they're anti-technology because technology is all about empowering people with the flexibility / freedom to do whatever they want. Apple thinks it is the future alone when tech is all about collaboration and this stems back to Jobs' arrogance.

Good post.

Ray_Lewis'_Victim
02-19-2011, 02:52 PM
I'm about to start a home recording hobby and everyone I talk to keeps telling me "You have to get an Apple Macbook Pro". Why? No one can give me a real answer. "It just works better", "I've had a better experience", etc. with no specifics as to what's different... what's better.


Reasons to get a MBP, and why IMO its worth the premium:
Physical specs: Thinner/lighter/sturdier than any non apple laptop I've used. Way better battery life. My MBP has 2 graphics cards for when I need battery life vs when I need graphics performance
OS Integration: No crap/bloatware installed, sleep/wake better than windows, no issues connecting to a projector, etc
OS X: Its UNIX. 'nuff said

I realize that these don't matter to everyone, but they're definitely worth the extra $3-500 I'd have paid over a comparable PC. Once you start talking about Mac Pro's, then the premium starts to be ridiculous, I agree. MS has made big strides with Win 7, but OS X is still tops for me.

BroncoBuff
02-19-2011, 02:53 PM
lol. I actually like Zune bit instead of getting one I'm thinking about waiting till Windows Phone makes it's way to CDMA - although it'll be tough to give up my Droid.

How often do you change cell phones, is't Droid barely a year old?

Chris
02-19-2011, 02:59 PM
Reasons to get a MBP, and why IMO its worth the premium:
Physical specs: Thinner/lighter/sturdier than any non apple laptop I've used. Way better battery life. My MBP has 2 graphics cards for when I need battery life vs when I need graphics performance
OS Integration: No crap/bloatware installed, sleep/wake better than windows, no issues connecting to a projector, etc
OS X: Its UNIX. 'nuff said

I realize that these don't matter to everyone, but they're definitely worth the extra $3-500 I'd have paid over a comparable PC. Once you start talking about Mac Pro's, then the premium starts to be ridiculous, I agree. MS has made big strides with Win 7, but OS X is still tops for me.

Thank you. Can you explain why people think OS X is so superior for home audio?

tsiguy96
02-19-2011, 03:04 PM
Thank you. Can you explain why people think OS X is so superior for home audio?

i think a lot of it stems back to the OS itself, its not cluttered with 8,000 things like windows, so when you get to specific processes, its easier to use and function with OSX than it is windows. mac is great at keeping it basic in terms of layout and complexity of it all, where as it seems windows is trying to make things as complex and cluttered as possible. in terms of software, i doubt there really is a big difference since so many of them are on both OS.

Los Broncos
02-19-2011, 03:04 PM
Zune FTW

WolfpackGuy
02-19-2011, 03:04 PM
http://rlv.zcache.com/sheeple_sticker-p217614376949593962q0ou_400.jpg

Requiem
02-19-2011, 03:06 PM
I worked for Apple for several months a few years back and resigned due to health reasons. Another reason was how poorly structured things were and the general attitude I felt while working with the people did. That being said, they do have some incredible products. Though it was hard to justify spending that much more on their products, compared to Windows/Microsoft products.

However, in regards to this thread, I've never had an MP3 player. I used my old Samsung Instinct for mine, and now my Palm is used for it. The GB's of space it has is more than enough for multiple playlists and it does everything I need it to do. Never saw a reason to get anything else.

Chris
02-19-2011, 03:07 PM
i think a lot of it stems back to the OS itself, its not cluttered with 8,000 things like windows, so when you get to specific processes, its easier to use and function with OSX than it is windows. mac is great at keeping it basic in terms of layout and complexity of it all, where as it seems windows is trying to make things as complex and cluttered as possible. in terms of software, i doubt there really is a big difference since so many of them are on both OS.

So basically it's for people that don't know how to minimise? I still really struggle to see why this is twice the price better and I'm wondering what, if anything, is missing in my thought process.

I did hear that they run windows faster than windows machines on the same specs... not that I have any proof to back that up.

Chris
02-19-2011, 03:08 PM
I worked for Apple for several months a few years back and resigned due to health reasons. Another reason was how poorly structured things were and the general attitude I felt while working with the people did. That being said, they do have some incredible products.

However, in regards to this thread, I've never had an MP3 player. I used my old Samsung Instinct for mine, and now my Palm is used for it. The GB's of space it has is more than enough for multiple playlists and it does everything I need it to do. Never saw a reason to get anything else.

I've heard they're a very tough company to work for. It sounds very cultish and poorly managed but they get things out on the backs of their workers... to their own detriment (this can be seen in plenty of successful companies... no one externally really cares so long as they're profitable).

Kaylore
02-19-2011, 03:17 PM
I'm just glad Apple never makes their products incompatible with extraordinarily common programs like a adobe Flash, or anything. :-*:welcome:

Mogulseeker
02-19-2011, 03:19 PM
Mac is just sexier. Girls like sexy.

They do run better... maybe not $1,000 better, but I like OSX and I prefer Mac because of all the features they come with. As a matter of fact, it seems like in the last 20 years, every time Windows comes out with a new feature, it's usually something that Mac has been doing for years - ie Windows 3.1, the snap feature, duo core processors, etc.

I've never had a problem with a Mac crashing and they do run smoother than Windows.

Plus Apple products are just plain sexy.

BroncoBuff
02-19-2011, 03:20 PM
I think they're a cynical company. They come across as a "product" company to me, not a technology company. I think they're anti-technology because technology is all about empowering people with the flexibility / freedom to do whatever they want. Apple thinks it is the future alone when tech is all about collaboration and this stems back to Jobs' arrogance.

Agree mostly, but instead of cynical and arrogant ... how about principled and courageous?

I don't like them, but have some grudging respect for a company that refused to license its hardware or software, watched the PC world fly past them at light speed, were on the brink of demise before the iPod, insist on overpricing their entire inventory, and yet still command a loyal customer base. Sure, it's about marketing ... but I wear shirt shirts with little horses on them, who am I to judge?

Mogulseeker
02-19-2011, 03:21 PM
I pay $45,000 a year to go to school. The extra $700 for a better computer to do all my schoolwork on is not only an investment, it's really not that much in the long run.

Chris
02-19-2011, 03:28 PM
I pay $45,000 a year to go to school. The extra $700 for a better computer to do all my schoolwork on is not only an investment, it's really not that much in the long run.

Fecking hell if you don't mind me saying where do you go to school? That's like a Stanford MBA price.

Buff I give them full credit for their innovations but they consistently make decisions that are unnecessary and at the expense of consumer choice. They pull features on purpose (like the front facing camera on the ipad for example) so there is always something missing from your device that will force you to upgrade.

I'm curious to see what people think about macs slowing down faster than PCs through new software with "required" OS updates.

ZachKC
02-19-2011, 03:32 PM
Apple's popularity is largely about marketing. They convince people they're "just better" (they certainly have good user experience designers and make slick looking products) and people fork out their cash because they're intimidated by technology. They have no reason to be.

I'm about to start a home recording hobby and everyone I talk to keeps telling me "You have to get an Apple Macbook Pro". Why? No one can give me a real answer. "It just works better", "I've had a better experience", etc. with no specifics as to what's different... what's better.

I realise their UI is simpler for people that have never used computers before... but I don't need that and let's be real most people don't. Their popularity (to me) really shows that people prefer convenience over everything else... Apple really gets that and they charge through the nose for it.

My experience with Apples (all my yuptacular NY friends have one) is that they get slower faster. The OS updates and new programs are all designed to force you to upgrade. That's a double no-no for me on top of a product that starts at $1000 more for the equivalent specs on a PC. It's great business... but it's completely transparent to me. They have such cultish marketing that no one really seems to notice this. They're too busy staring at the logo.

It also seems like Steve Jobs decided that being the underdog in the 90s caused them to lose the OS battle to Microsoft and so now he's playing "no more mr. nice guy". Their actions are increasingly monopolistic... they want 30% of all store revenue in the US and 40% in Europe. That's ridiculous and arrogant and it's understandably pissing of all the media companies. They want to control everything you on a machine by forcing you to go through them and limiting the transfer of files.

I think they're a cynical company. They come across as a "product" company to me, not a technology company. I think they're anti-technology because technology is all about empowering people with the flexibility / freedom to do whatever they want. Apple thinks it is the future alone when tech is all about collaboration and this stems back to Jobs' arrogance.
Form factor.

Try to pass off their customers as idiots all you want but Apple understands how important form factor is for people.

HAT
02-19-2011, 03:44 PM
My daughter got an iPad from her other grandparents for her birthday recently. I play with it here and there (Netflix, browsing, Angry Birds, etc.). The UI is okay but I can't wait to my hands on a tab with a real OS......WebOS. It truly blows IOS & Android away, HPalm just needs to get developers developing for it.

Mogulseeker
02-19-2011, 03:46 PM
Fecking hell if you don't mind me saying where do you go to school? That's like a Stanford MBA price.

Buff I give them full credit for their innovations but they consistently make decisions that are unnecessary and at the expense of consumer choice. They pull features on purpose (like the front facing camera on the ipad for example) so there is always something missing from your device that will force you to upgrade.

I'm curious to see what people think about macs slowing down faster than PCs through new software with "required" OS updates.

The Josef Korbel School of International Studies at the University of Denver.

I have the GI Bill, academic scholarship, some money from parents... almost two years now and I'm only $8,000 in debt (and I own my 2005 VW Passat) so I'm doing alright :thumbsup:

Aftermath
02-19-2011, 03:54 PM
i have a 64gb zune and i absolutely love it... ive owned 3 ipods before (all generations), but i dont use my music player for all those applications, i use it just for music.
But, i also do want an Windows 7 phone on Verizon. i played with the htc surround that att has and i like it alot.

BroncoBuff
02-19-2011, 03:57 PM
And don't forget that system resource hog iTunes ... Is there anything more annoying?

Garcia Bronco
02-19-2011, 04:03 PM
the problem with apple **** is that lack of modular upgrades and the sizes are too small. I need a terabyte damnit.

Garcia Bronco
02-19-2011, 04:05 PM
The Josef Korbel School of International Studies at the University of Denver.

I have the GI Bill, academic scholarship, some money from parents... almost two years now and I'm only $8,000 in debt (and I own my 2005 VW Passat) so I'm doing alright :thumbsup:

you aren't paying 45 k then.

Aftermath
02-19-2011, 04:08 PM
And don't forget that system resource hog iTunes ... Is there anything more annoying?

oh ya, i love the zune pc software too, way nicer

BlaK-Argentina
02-19-2011, 04:34 PM
I'm about to start a home recording hobby and everyone I talk to keeps telling me "You have to get an Apple Macbook Pro". Why? No one can give me a real answer. "It just works better", "I've had a better experience", etc. with no specifics as to what's different... what's better.


Don't do it! Buy a good pc and you'll be working as smoothly as with a Mac but for less money and with way more (and better) options.

There are a bunch of AMAZING FREE or very cheap VST plugins and DAW's for Windows that you can't find on Mac. Also don't bother forking over the cash for Pro Tools and try Reaper (they are about to release version 4; I've used every DAW available and Reaper is the best IMO) you can do anything with it and it is very cheap, fast and reliable. (www.reaper.fm)

If you go with a Mac you'll be spending way more for less, only to MAYBE work a bit faster (not really) and to have the supposedly 'cooler' system.

Popps
02-19-2011, 05:04 PM
Apple Computers: Rock-solid stable for my business for over a decade. Probably the best business investment I've made.

End result: $$$$


Apple Stock: Rock solid for over a decade. Probably one of the best business investments I've made.

End result: $$$$



You kids keep slap-fighting over which computer looks neater. I'll keep growing my business and profits by using the products of a stock I told you all was a no-brainer 5 years ago.

Popps
02-19-2011, 05:06 PM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wvsboPUjrGc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Requiem
02-19-2011, 05:08 PM
I pay $45,000 a year to go to school. The extra $700 for a better computer to do all my schoolwork on is not only an investment, it's really not that much in the long run.

Well, you don't technically pay that because of the benefits you receive and by all means you aren't the average student.

Most kids in school can't manage to swing the extra bucks necessary for a MBP or something from Apple. Furthermore, most of those students are also using their computers for the basics: e-mail, Facebook, word processing, etc. -- so all the perks of anything better for most is irrelevant.

$ these days is what is on people's minds. College kids aren't going to pay that extra cash for something when they can get a machine that does what they want for a lot cheaper. Whenever I came across sales for the higher end Mac products, it was almost always parents footing the bill for the expense, and not the student.

With that said, I've always enjoyed working on Macs and I'm highly considering one in the near future.

Popps
02-19-2011, 05:10 PM
Here's another crazy thought.... just use the product you like.

Insane, I know... but what about that?


I mean, I like eating oatmeal for breakfast. Should I start threads about how people that eat granola are idiots because they could have saved 10% on their breakfast purchase and gotten the same amount of carbs?


Sort of seems like the guy with a needle-#### who has to go out and pick fights because of it. I mean, if you're confident in your choices... who cares what someone else uses?

Requiem
02-19-2011, 05:12 PM
I've heard they're a very tough company to work for. It sounds very cultish and poorly managed but they get things out on the backs of their workers... to their own detriment (this can be seen in plenty of successful companies... no one externally really cares so long as they're profitable).

You pretty much summed it up. The informal nature of the management system and how I interacted with a lot of my superiors (mostly conference call) was just terrible. Never again would I work for Apple.

atomicbloke
02-19-2011, 05:14 PM
Apple Computers: Rock-solid stable for my business for over a decade. Probably the best business investment I've made.

End result: $$$$


Apple Stock: Rock solid for over a decade. Probably one of the best business investments I've made.

End result: $$$$



You kids keep slap-fighting over which computer looks neater. I'll keep growing my business and profits by using the products of a stock I told you all was a no-brainer 5 years ago.

Ditto.

Ever since I began expanding my business, I went with Macs. Now own 10 Mac Pros, and they were the best business decision I ever made.

Had I gone with PCs, I would have lost all my clients by now.

I have to run large simulations with lots of number crunching, often for days on end, and no way am I going to trust them on PCs.

OABB
02-19-2011, 05:27 PM
As a creative genius, I prefer mac. I imagine if I were a mathlete or cubicle jockey i'd get the pc love.

chadta
02-19-2011, 05:46 PM
love my iphone, but its jailbroken, so im using it as i want not how apple wanted,heck i even changed the 20 dollar battery myself vs sending it in for an 80 dollar repair and being 3 weeks without a phone. Long as i dont upgrade im ok. But i knew that going into it, i feel sorry for the peolpe who just buy it and then realize that they have to jailbreak to get it to do half the stuff they heard it could do.

Durango
02-19-2011, 05:54 PM
Apple Computers: Rock-solid stable for my business for over a decade. Probably the best business investment I've made.

End result: $$$$


Apple Stock: Rock solid for over a decade. Probably one of the best business investments I've made.

End result: $$$$



You kids keep slap-fighting over which computer looks neater. I'll keep growing my business and profits by using the products of a stock I told you all was a no-brainer 5 years ago.

Same here. After battling Vista bugs and outdated, compromised operating systems for a decade, I just gave up on PC's and have never, ever regretted it for a second.

I've had only one problem with six Macs, and that was covered under the warranty. I enjoy the format, have software to cover any compatibility issues with PC and just generally enjoy the confidence the damned things are going to work every single day.

montrose
02-19-2011, 05:55 PM
How often do you change cell phones, is't Droid barely a year old?

Usually every 2 years but my old phone broke a year in and I had Geek Squad protection on it so I got a new Droid X which I really like. I have an upgrade coming in a few months, my Droid X is awesome but the Thunderbolt looks bad ass. I'm waiting to see if Verizon charges a premium for 4g cause if they do I'll just stick with my Droid X. A Windows Phone on 4g would be awesome too but I really would only need 4g for my slingplayer and Netflix (whenever it comes to android).

As for Apple, I dont really like their stuff because I feel uncomfortable using it and I dont care for their uppity stigma but I see how some users like their products - I just prefer Microsoft and Google's products manufactured by several companies I like: Dell, Sony, Motorola, Toshiba, HTC, etc.

gyldenlove
02-19-2011, 06:06 PM
At work I couldn't run a mac even if I wanted to, firstly most of the software I use doesn't exist for mac os and secondly I run 4 xeon processors which doesn't exist in a mac.

The best decision apple ever made was to drop their own hardware and go with stock intel instead.

chadta
02-19-2011, 06:22 PM
The best decision apple ever made was to drop their own hardware and go with stock intel instead.

that and finally allowing software manufactures to actually make programs for them.

gyldenlove
02-19-2011, 06:29 PM
that and finally allowing software manufactures to actually make programs for them.

Can anyone explain why they use intel processing power and ATI graphics? Isn't that like putting a ford big block in a 69 camaro?

extralife
02-19-2011, 06:55 PM
thread delivers. I've been considering a small, cheap music player for a while now. this thing looks like the way to go.

Houshyamama
02-19-2011, 07:14 PM
I just built a computer for $1700 that would have cost me $45,000 at the Apple store. Their products are nice and well built, but extremely over priced. I mean, WAY over priced. Apple is a complete ripoff if you know anything about computers.

Play2win
02-19-2011, 07:19 PM
Mac Mini, which I love (drives my 30" Apple Cinema display circa 2005)--

Both Snow Leopard and Windows 7. Use and love both operating systems. Adobe Master CS5 on Mac (Photoshop CS5 is AMAZING) CODA/Textmate probably my favorite Apps right now... Mac MS OFFICE 2011 and esp WORD are Real Nice.

I think Hell is going to freeze over relatively soon, because MAC/PC are working great for me... TOGETHER... ;D

tsiguy96
02-19-2011, 07:21 PM
I just built a computer for $1700 that would have cost me $45,000 at the Apple store. Their products are nice and well built, but extremely over priced. I mean, WAY over priced. Apple is a complete ripoff if you know anything about computers.

but unless you are damn good, you need to buy their computers to get the best part about them, the OS. yea, they are overpriced, but you could make that argument for every single higher end product on the market regardless of category.

Play2win
02-19-2011, 07:22 PM
Oh, by the way-- IE is still EVIL...

Houshyamama
02-19-2011, 07:39 PM
but unless you are damn good, you need to buy their computers to get the best part about them, the OS. yea, they are overpriced, but you could make that argument for every single higher end product on the market regardless of category.

My product is an i7 950 with 12gb ram and a 120gb SSD boot drive... it is an extremely high end product running a GREAT OS (Windows 7). These specs on a Mac would have cost me at least another $1000. My dad just got one of the 30" Macs with an i7, pretty much the highest end Mac out there I believe. It is a great product, a GREAT product, but it is ridiculously overpriced compared to my machine. If money is no object, then Apple is a great product for you. If you know your way around a computer and can build your own and fix it yourself easily, I see absolutely no reason to go the Mac route. Laptops are another matter though IMO, I've thought about getting a Macbook, they are just built so well.

Houshyamama
02-19-2011, 07:41 PM
I think Hell is going to freeze over relatively soon, because MAC/PC are working great for me... TOGETHER... ;D

DON'T CROSS THE STREAMS!! :spit:

Play2win
02-19-2011, 07:59 PM
DON'T CROSS THE STREAMS!! :spit:

Well if hell does freeze over, maybe I can actually start tolerating living down here in Florida, but I doubt it... ;D

tsiguy96
02-19-2011, 08:10 PM
My product is an i7 950 with 12gb ram and a 120gb SSD boot drive... it is an extremely high end product running a GREAT OS (Windows 7). These specs on a Mac would have cost me at least another $1000. My dad just got one of the 30" Macs with an i7, pretty much the highest end Mac out there I believe. It is a great product, a GREAT product, but it is ridiculously overpriced compared to my machine. If money is no object, then Apple is a great product for you. If you know your way around a computer and can build your own and fix it yourself easily, I see absolutely no reason to go the Mac route. Laptops are another matter though IMO, I've thought about getting a Macbook, they are just built so well.

a great OS in your opinion, im NEVER going back to windows.

Chris
02-19-2011, 08:20 PM
The thing is I need a laptop and I am really torn... I've wanted to get the ableton full suite which is on PC as well. Tough decision. If I weren't doing home audio PC would be q no brainer.

BroncoBuff
02-19-2011, 08:28 PM
My product is an i7 950 with 12gb ram and a 120gb SSD boot drive... it is an extremely high end product running a GREAT OS (Windows 7).

Nice. The 950 seems the best i7, price point slots in beautifully.

12gb ram ... I'm guessing three 4gb sticks on an X58? What's your mobo and speed/brand memory?

I love the triple channel, but it looks like Intel is dumping it along with the 1366 socket. The specs on these new Sandy Bridge i7's are really hot, but the prices are low low. What's the catch?

TDmvp
02-19-2011, 08:32 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_110wcPq1TEY/Sy2UKbyQI2I/AAAAAAAAF2E/Fld_CQAdb3w/s320/cripple_fight.jpg

Ray Finkle
02-19-2011, 08:48 PM
Apple's popularity is largely about marketing. They convince people they're "just better" (they certainly have good user experience designers and make slick looking products) and people fork out their cash because they're intimidated by technology. They have no reason to be.

I'm about to start a home recording hobby and everyone I talk to keeps telling me "You have to get an Apple Macbook Pro". Why? No one can give me a real answer. "It just works better", "I've had a better experience", etc. with no specifics as to what's different... what's better.

I realise their UI is simpler for people that have never used computers before... but I don't need that and let's be real most people don't. Their popularity (to me) really shows that people prefer convenience over everything else... Apple really gets that and they charge through the nose for it.

My experience with Apples (all my yuptacular NY friends have one) is that they get slower faster. The OS updates and new programs are all designed to force you to upgrade. That's a double no-no for me on top of a product that starts at $1000 more for the equivalent specs on a PC. It's great business... but it's completely transparent to me. They have such cultish marketing that no one really seems to notice this. They're too busy staring at the logo.

It also seems like Steve Jobs decided that being the underdog in the 90s caused them to lose the OS battle to Microsoft and so now he's playing "no more mr. nice guy". Their actions are increasingly monopolistic... they want 30% of all store revenue in the US and 40% in Europe. That's ridiculous and arrogant and it's understandably pissing of all the media companies. They want to control everything you on a machine by forcing you to go through them and limiting the transfer of files.

I think they're a cynical company. They come across as a "product" company to me, not a technology company. I think they're anti-technology because technology is all about empowering people with the flexibility / freedom to do whatever they want. Apple thinks it is the future alone when tech is all about collaboration and this stems back to Jobs' arrogance.


it all depends on what you want to do on you computer. I have had both and Mac's last longer and do not have the issues PC's have.

MagicHef
02-19-2011, 09:32 PM
Here's another crazy thought.... just use the product you like.

Insane, I know... but what about that?


I mean, I like eating oatmeal for breakfast. Should I start threads about how people that eat granola are idiots because they could have saved 10% on their breakfast purchase and gotten the same amount of carbs?


Sort of seems like the guy with a needle-#### who has to go out and pick fights because of it. I mean, if you're confident in your choices... who cares what someone else uses?

No way. Oatmeal sucks!

Houshyamama
02-19-2011, 09:33 PM
Nice. The 950 seems the best i7, price point slots in beautifully.

12gb ram ... I'm guessing three 4gb sticks on an X58? What's your mobo and speed/brand memory?

I love the triple channel, but it looks like Intel is dumping it along with the 1366 socket. The specs on these new Sandy Bridge i7's are really hot, but the prices are low low. What's the catch?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231406

and

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131665&cm_re=sabertooth_x58-_-13-131-665-_-Product

There doesn't seem to be a catch with the new Sandy Bridge procs, just great performance at a great price. I myself couldn't wait for them :)

BlaK-Argentina
02-19-2011, 10:04 PM
The thing is I need a laptop and I am really torn... I've wanted to get the ableton full suite which is on PC as well. Tough decision. If I weren't doing home audio PC would be q no brainer.

Did you read my previous post? If you're into home recording a pc is a much better choice TODAY.

Dudeskey
02-19-2011, 10:16 PM
I'm just glad Apple never makes their products incompatible with extraordinarily common programs like a adobe Flash, or anything. :-*:welcome:

LOL @ Apple & Adobe's little nerd war. Then again we wouldn't have HTML 5 coming in the near future if it wasnt for this

Kaylore
02-19-2011, 10:22 PM
LOL @ Apple & Adobe's little nerd war. Then again we wouldn't have HTML 5 coming in the near future if it wasnt for this

It took three pages for someone to respond! Seriously though, when my friend told me he can't use Homestarrunner on his Ipad, I thought he was joking. Then he explained the politics, or nerd war is appropriate too, of how none of the Ipods/pads/phones can use Flash and I spit my drink out.

BroncoBuff
02-20-2011, 12:21 AM
Please tell me Adobe is the winner there. Unlike Apple, Adobe is a "technology company" to use Chris' definition. They're all about the programs.

But Microsoft is the real nerd warrior ... bully nerd warrior. Didn't they actually go into Sun's Java program and alter the code for their own purposes? They made IE free with Windows to kill Netscape, and does anybody remember the Windows 95 splash screen battles with Compaq or Dell or whomever? They went back and forth over and over about whose splash could display for how many seconds during boot-up.

cutthemdown
02-20-2011, 12:30 AM
from experience with home recording my PC stinks compared to my friends Mac. But my PC not that great of one so who knows. All the musicians, recording engineers, swear by the Macs.

Mr. Elway
02-20-2011, 08:20 AM
The specs on these new Sandy Bridge i7's are really hot, but the prices are low low. What's the catch?

Buy carefully, there have been recalls (http://www.infoworld.com/t/processors/sandy-bridge-recall-rippling-through-the-industry-216) on the Sandy Bridge models.

Cpntrips
02-20-2011, 09:28 AM
Ditto.

Ever since I began expanding my business, I went with Macs. Now own 10 Mac Pros, and they were the best business decision I ever made.

Had I gone with PCs, I would have lost all my clients by now.

I have to run large simulations with lots of number crunching, often for days on end, and no way am I going to trust them on PCs.


I have no problem with apple products but that statement is just absurd. I guess all those companies using PCs to power their critical datacenters don't know what they are doing. Hilarious! One thing I've learned is that apple fans are rabid in their defense of the company and tend to stretch the truth at times. Having stock in a company will do that to you and it seems like there are a lot of Apple shareholders out there, myself included.

Jesterhole
02-20-2011, 10:13 AM
Apple has always been about making technology accessible to people who aren't good with it. I can hand off an iPhone or an iPad to my parents and they can play with it and 'get it' like they haven't before. Their user interface is so well designed and comes so instinctively that people can run programs and play games and connect to the web without knowing anything technical at all.

That is the true genius of Apple, and why they are currently dominating as technology explodes to the masses. 15 years ago only technical people knew about, cared about or got onto the internet. Now everyone does, even grandmothers who have never used a computer before.

jhns
02-20-2011, 10:42 AM
PC is better for those that know what they are doing. Apple is better for those that like to spend more money on inferior products.

BlaK-Argentina
02-20-2011, 10:55 AM
from experience with home recording my PC stinks compared to my friends Mac. But my PC not that great of one so who knows. All the musicians, recording engineers, swear by the Macs.

Not in my experience. I've never had a problem with my pc in 3 years of work and I've had far more stuff to choose from than with a Mac. But, that's just MY experience.

Mogulseeker
02-20-2011, 11:00 AM
Well, you don't technically pay that because of the benefits you receive and by all means you aren't the average student.

Most kids in school can't manage to swing the extra bucks necessary for a MBP or something from Apple. Furthermore, most of those students are also using their computers for the basics: e-mail, Facebook, word processing, etc. -- so all the perks of anything better for most is irrelevant.

$ these days is what is on people's minds. College kids aren't going to pay that extra cash for something when they can get a machine that does what they want for a lot cheaper. Whenever I came across sales for the higher end Mac products, it was almost always parents footing the bill for the expense, and not the student.

With that said, I've always enjoyed working on Macs and I'm highly considering one in the near future.

They get 45k from me every year... the GI Bill is my money and the academic scholarship is actually quite hard to maintain. Basically, DU is my job and I'm paid in scholarship money.

I'm at the Penrose library right now and probably 8 out of 10 kids here are on Macs. The ratio is even higher for undergraduate students - maybe 9 out of 10.

DU is expensive, but they're very good about giving financial aid. Eighty percent of the kids here graduated in the top ten percent of their high school, and thusly are on scholarship. Really the only people that are paying that much out of pocket are people who probably shouldn't be here and are scraping by with a 2.0 GPA.

My MacBook Pro and my Versace suit are my two extravagant investments that will pay out in the long run.

ColoradoDarin
02-20-2011, 12:57 PM
I don't get the whole cult of Apple, I have an iTouch, but I'm not blown away by it. I was thinking of getting an Ipad, but it really needs flash if I'm ever going to do anything with it other than download music/shows/movies from itunes.

Chris
02-20-2011, 12:58 PM
Don't do it! Buy a good pc and you'll be working as smoothly as with a Mac but for less money and with way more (and better) options.

There are a bunch of AMAZING FREE or very cheap VST plugins and DAW's for Windows that you can't find on Mac. Also don't bother forking over the cash for Pro Tools and try Reaper (they are about to release version 4; I've used every DAW available and Reaper is the best IMO) you can do anything with it and it is very cheap, fast and reliable. (www.reaper.fm)

If you go with a Mac you'll be spending way more for less, only to MAYBE work a bit faster (not really) and to have the supposedly 'cooler' system.

Have you tried ableton?

What pc laptops do you recommend for home audio?

UberBroncoMan
02-20-2011, 02:28 PM
http://rlv.zcache.com/sheeple_sticker-p217614376949593962q0ou_400.jpg

Pretty much. I used a Mac for 6 years of my life. Was happy when that ended.

BlaK-Argentina
02-20-2011, 03:03 PM
Have you tried ableton?

What pc laptops do you recommend for home audio?

I tried Ableton but didn't like it for mixing. To each his own though, especially when it comes to DAWs. I like Reaper because it is capable of some amazing things and I can do anything on it. Plus it runs smoothly, has great support and constant updates. (and a great price) In any case if you're new I would encourage you to download some demos and see what feels right for you because there are a lot of good options (Reaper, Pro Tools, Ableton, Sonar, Cubase, etc).

About the laptop... it all depends on what you're going to do with it. Are you going to record all real instruments? Are you going to record AND mix? Will you be using virtual instruments? If you're going to be using virtual instruments PLUS mixing plugins you're gonna need a bit of firepower out of your machine. (strongly recommend a machine with multiple processors) But if you're gonna be recording all LIVE instruments by mic you can get away with something a little cheaper and not so powerful and invest in a good audio interface instead. (there are some very good USB interfaces by M-Audio for example) I would suggest buying one anyway even if it's only to record guitar.

I can help you if you want, just let me know exactly what you want to do. :)

BroncoBuff
02-20-2011, 03:35 PM
A great OS in your opinion, im NEVER going back to windows.

It's good for a young man such as yourself to have a mentor, and Popps is a good choice.

Seriously though, are there any limits to your devotion, where do you draw the line?

Houshyamama
02-20-2011, 03:42 PM
It's good for a young man such as yourself to have a mentor, and Popps is a good choice.

Seriously though, are there any limits to your devotion, where do you draw the line?

Never underestimate an Apple fanboy's devotion to the brand.

BroncoBuff
02-20-2011, 03:57 PM
Here's another crazy thought.... just use the product you like.

Insane, I know... but what about that?


I always said this in the old Apple vs. PC threads ... a computer is just a tool to get a job done. I knew plenty of guys in the early 90s who eagerly paid $10,000 over MSRP for a Toyota Camry merely because it had a wood-trimmed interior and a 'Lexus ES 250' nameplate attached. Spending the extra money made them confident, proud, whatever. Same thing with designer labels, most name-brand items, even medications ... OTC and Rx for that matter. Paying extra for your ibuprofen because the pills say "Advil" on them actually makes less sense than paying extra for Apple products because you're comfortable with them.

Chris
02-20-2011, 04:10 PM
Speaking of which, where is Popps? Bingo convention in Cali? Taking advantage of a free prostate exam? What?

extralife
02-20-2011, 04:17 PM
I always said this in the old Apple vs. PC threads ... a computer is just a tool to get a job done. I knew plenty of guys in the early 90s who eagerly paid $10,000 over MSRP for a Toyota Camry merely because it had a wood-trimmed interior and a 'Lexus ES 250' nameplate attached. Spending the extra money made them confident, proud, whatever. Same thing with designer labels, most name-brand items, even medications ... OTC and Rx for that matter. Paying extra for your ibuprofen because the pills say "Advil" on them actually makes less sense than paying extra for Apple products because you're comfortable with them.

it's called branding. apple does not sell you a machine, they sell you a prepackaged "lifestyle."

WABronco
02-20-2011, 04:19 PM
There's no "print selection" feature when printing on an Apple.

lulz.

BroncoBuff
02-20-2011, 04:29 PM
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7099/ham2.jpg


ENOUGH BICKERING, GUYS! You heard Buff, a computer is just a
tool. Like this hammer ... it's a tool to get a job done!

So are you gonna get the job done, or are you gonna let yourself
be distracted by nameplates and eye candy?!

Either hammer a nail, or hammer me ... YOUR call!

Binkythefrog
02-20-2011, 04:39 PM
I tried Ableton but didn't like it for mixing. To each his own though, especially when it comes to DAWs. I like Reaper because it is capable of some amazing things and I can do anything on it. Plus it runs smoothly, has great support and constant updates. (and a great price) In any case if you're new I would encourage you to download some demos and see what feels right for you because there are a lot of good options (Reaper, Pro Tools, Ableton, Sonar, Cubase, etc).

About the laptop... it all depends on what you're going to do with it. Are you going to record all real instruments? Are you going to record AND mix? Will you be using virtual instruments? If you're going to be using virtual instruments PLUS mixing plugins you're gonna need a bit of firepower out of your machine. (strongly recommend a machine with multiple processors) But if you're gonna be recording all LIVE instruments by mic you can get away with something a little cheaper and not so powerful and invest in a good audio interface instead. (there are some very good USB interfaces by M-Audio for example) I would suggest buying one anyway even if it's only to record guitar.

I can help you if you want, just let me know exactly what you want to do. :)

I use Logic, and have a MOTU Ultralite (1st gen) audio interface that has been absolutely incredible for me. Logic has great plug ins/virtual instruments already packaged in and at 499 is really tough to beat (if you get a Mac of course). You can even get Logic Express at 199 to start which will be a great starting point. I have heard great things about Reaper as well, but am happy with Logic so I have never tried it.

I like all of the advice above, and I would add that you should just keep this computer for audio/recording purposes only (if you can), you'll get better performance out of it.

I've used the Ableton suite as well, and I think Logic's bundled plugins are much better. I've also seen that Ableton's reliability has gone down ever since 8 came out. They may have fixed it, but I would do some research on stability first.

cutthemdown
02-20-2011, 04:52 PM
Not in my experience. I've never had a problem with my pc in 3 years of work and I've had far more stuff to choose from than with a Mac. But, that's just MY experience.

My PC craps out when I record too many things at once, but its just not that great a machine. Plenty of PC can get the job done. But I'm only pointing out most musicians and engineers you talk to like the Mac better. Just like most use protools over cubase. Even though cubase good.

Whatever I barely know how to set a level and position a mic.

cutthemdown
02-20-2011, 04:53 PM
I'd like either a kick ass Mac or PC. :)

Play2win
02-20-2011, 04:55 PM
Well, there is no CODA except on the Mac. So there's that.

atomicbloke
02-20-2011, 04:59 PM
I have no problem with apple products but that statement is just absurd. I guess all those companies using PCs to power their critical datacenters don't know what they are doing. Hilarious! One thing I've learned is that apple fans are rabid in their defense of the company and tend to stretch the truth at times. Having stock in a company will do that to you and it seems like there are a lot of Apple shareholders out there, myself included.

Data centers don't do heavy duty number crunching.

I have to run some serious simulations involving a billion floating point calculations on terabytes of data. And then graphically render them for my clients.

When I was in grad school, I implemented a prototype version of similar simulations on a PC (Dell). It ran for 4 days, and then the processor burned up and the motherboard fried.. Yeah, I am sure PCs could handle the full, more sophisticated version then.

And I am glad you know how to run my business better than me.

Houshyamama
02-20-2011, 06:49 PM
http://i.imgur.com/REnyQ.jpg

gyldenlove
02-20-2011, 07:01 PM
Data centers don't do heavy duty number crunching.

I have to run some serious simulations involving a billion floating point calculations on terabytes of data. And then graphically render them for my clients.

When I was in grad school, I implemented a prototype version of similar simulations on a PC (Dell). It ran for 4 days, and then the processor burned up and the motherboard fried.. Yeah, I am sure PCs could handle the full, more sophisticated version then.

And I am glad you know how to run my business better than me.

Given that you can't buy a mac with more than 2 Xeon processors I can tell you that no major simulation has ever run on a mac, it also true that I have never seen a bank, hospital or insurance company run mac, the solutions simply do not exist to handle the amount of data and backup. In terms of computation all serious simulation is done on clusters of PCs running X installations or Windows server depending on size.

BroncosSR
02-20-2011, 07:21 PM
Here's another crazy thought.... just use the product you like.

Insane, I know... but what about that?


I mean, I like eating oatmeal for breakfast. Should I start threads about how people that eat granola are idiots because they could have saved 10% on their breakfast purchase and gotten the same amount of carbs?


Sort of seems like the guy with a needle-#### who has to go out and pick fights because of it. I mean, if you're confident in your choices... who cares what someone else uses?

Good post. This is exactly how I look at this ridiculous pissing contest between software/hardware companies. Use whatever product benefits you the most.

I used Windows for the early years of my career. Switched to Mac when I started my last job and I've never regretted it. Actually I regret not doing it sooner. As a developer, my MacBook Pro offers so many advantages in the domain of software development mainly because it's Unix-based and it integrates easily into the enterprise.

BlaK-Argentina
02-20-2011, 07:30 PM
I use Logic, and have a MOTU Ultralite (1st gen) audio interface that has been absolutely incredible for me. Logic has great plug ins/virtual instruments already packaged in and at 499 is really tough to beat (if you get a Mac of course). You can even get Logic Express at 199 to start which will be a great starting point. I have heard great things about Reaper as well, but am happy with Logic so I have never tried it.

I like all of the advice above, and I would add that you should just keep this computer for audio/recording purposes only (if you can), you'll get better performance out of it.

I've used the Ableton suite as well, and I think Logic's bundled plugins are much better. I've also seen that Ableton's reliability has gone down ever since 8 came out. They may have fixed it, but I would do some research on stability first.

That's great advice!

I know Logic has good plugins but nowadays you can find plugins that are just as good or better for free or for very little money. There are a bunch of plugins that I use (especially for guitar) that are not available for Mac so I could never make the switch. Either way you can't go wrong. It's just a personal choice IMO.

BlaK-Argentina
02-20-2011, 07:34 PM
My PC craps out when I record too many things at once, but its just not that great a machine. Plenty of PC can get the job done. But I'm only pointing out most musicians and engineers you talk to like the Mac better. Just like most use protools over cubase. Even though cubase good.

Whatever I barely know how to set a level and position a mic.

Exactly.
Most people use Pro Tools because it is supposed to be the "Pro" software for music production but that hardly makes it the best.

I ****ing hate stupid Pro Tools.

Irish Stout
02-20-2011, 07:37 PM
Jeeeeez. Who cares. Each system/computer does things its own way and there are benefits to both.

I am far from a computer nerd... I only know what I have experience in. I own a macbook now, cause I went through 6 window based laptops in a three year span between 2005 and 2008. I had both an HP and a Dell get so hot that the bottoms of them began melting. I bought probably 5 new power cords in the time frame as the power cords kept burning out on the Compaq and HP models I had. The acer was toasted when I tripped over its power cord sending it skidding face first across tile, but the other 5 machines all ran into their own unique failures. I learned a very hard lesson on storing everything important to you on your compute often, especially if you're working on big projects.

For me, Windows is a much easier operating system than OSX, because I know it I am familiar with it and it is a language I speak. I struggle on my mac sometimes doing simple things. However, that struggle and the slight price difference between the macbook and a costco laptop is negligible compared to knowing when I trip on the power cord it will come harmlessly out of my computer. The bonus is that so far the macbook seems to be running really smoothly. I never would have gone to Mac if my Dad had not convinced me that the Pro he has owned for years just worked better... Both my dad and mom run their own separate businesses... my Dad has had one Mac while my Mom has gone through 3 computers over the last 4 years... It is my experience so far that Macs work better, keep viruses out better, and are designed to be functional and smooth. I am also convinced you cannot do everything on a Mac you can do on a PC and depending on what role computers play in your life, that pitfall can be huge.

Cmac821
02-20-2011, 08:03 PM
I have windows 7 and I like it a lot but then again I have never owned a mac, due to the price.

Popps
02-20-2011, 08:06 PM
Exactly.
Most people use Pro Tools because it is supposed to be the "Pro" software for music production but that hardly makes it the best.

I ****ing hate stupid Pro Tools.

Pro Tools is the industry standard. I'm a "pro" and have been for about 15 years.

However, if you're looking to do more composing and less recording/editing, there are other platforms more suitable, particularly for the home user.

You seem (like many) to have a very difficult time separating your opinion (what you like) from reality. (What is.)

Again, don't like Pro Tools? Don't use it. Trust me, they'll get along just fine without you. But, don't try to tell people that the earth is flat.... just because you don't understand that it's not.

BlaK-Argentina
02-20-2011, 08:21 PM
Pro Tools is the industry standard. I'm a "pro" and have been for about 15 years.

However, if you're looking to do more composing and less recording/editing, there are other platforms more suitable, particularly for the home user.

You seem (like many) to have a very difficult time separating your opinion (what you like) from reality. (What is.)

Again, don't like Pro Tools? Don't use it. Trust me, they'll get along just fine without you. But, don't try to tell people that the earth is flat.... just because you don't understand that it's not.

Oh don't worry, I can do what "PRO tools" does just fine and a lot of times even faster in Reaper.

Who cares that it is the "industry standard"? That doesn't make it any better. It just means that most people use it but at the end of the day it's just another DAW and serves the same purpose: producing music. It doesn't sound better... it does some things better/worse than other software. Any other music production software can do what Pro Tools does and sometimes better/faster. Don't feel so touched. I could care less that the so called "pros" use Pro Tools. I've tried it, and I didn't like it. (and no, it's not "harder" to use than any other DAW) If you know what you're doing, you can do it on Reaper, PT, Logic, Sonar, Cubase, Ableton, Record or whatever.

What is reality? Is Pro Tools better? Nah, just in YOUR opinion. Don't pass it off as fact just because you're a "pro" and use "Pro Tools" and like it. MANY people (including "pros") don't like Pro Tools.

I'm not trying to convince anyone anyway... I just gave my opinion.

broncosteven
02-20-2011, 08:35 PM
Have you tried ableton?

What pc laptops do you recommend for home audio?

I wouldn't recommend a Laptop for recording, for use with a DAW yes but not if you are recording audio. Unless you buy an i7 based Laptop you max out the ram at 8gig and with pro audio tools bloating with vst and processing 8 gig won't be enough to process alot of tracks without jitter.

Put together an i5 based PC with as much ram as you can afford.

I bought the Sonar X1 upgrade in December when it came out and then bought the NI Guitar Rig vst. I installed it all on my homebrew i5 with 8gig ram and Motu 828mk3.

I haven't been able to choke my system since upgrading to the i5.

I have a buddy who does illustrations for big budget hollywood movies and he is a windows hater but he just wants to draw his spaceships and doesn't care about the cost. He pays the preimum for ease of use.

People forget that Microsoft went off on their tangent to serve IBM to sell to businesses. Apple was never able to get into that market so they spent their time tweaking the end user experience. With Win7 I would say that MS has caught Apple and taken over the ease of use lead as well.

BlaK-Argentina
02-20-2011, 08:39 PM
I wouldn't recommend a Laptop for recording, for use with a DAW yes but not if you are recording audio. Unless you buy an i7 based Laptop you max out the ram at 8gig and with pro audio tools bloating with vst and processing 8 gig won't be enough to process alot of tracks without jitter.

Put together an i5 based PC with as much ram as you can afford.

I bought the Sonar X1 upgrade in December when it came out and then bought the NI Guitar Rig vst. I installed it all on my homebrew i5 with 8gig ram and Motu 828mk3.

I haven't been able to choke my system since upgrading to the i5.

I have a buddy who does illustrations for big budget hollywood movies and he is a windows hater but he just wants to draw his spaceships and doesn't care about the cost. He pays the preimum for ease of use.

People forget that Microsoft went off on their tangent to serve IBM to sell to businesses. Apple was never able to get into that market so they spent their time tweaking the end user experience. With Win7 I would say that MS has caught Apple and taken over the ease of use lead as well.

If you use Guitar Rig you should definitely check out http://lepouplugins.blogspot.com/

That guy is a freaking genius. You have to experiment with impulses for cab simulation but they are way better than anything else I've tried, including the big guys. (Guitar Rig, Amplitube, etc)

atomicbloke
02-20-2011, 09:22 PM
Given that you can't buy a mac with more than 2 Xeon processors I can tell you that no major simulation has ever run on a mac, it also true that I have never seen a bank, hospital or insurance company run mac, the solutions simply do not exist to handle the amount of data and backup. In terms of computation all serious simulation is done on clusters of PCs running X installations or Windows server depending on size.

What utter tripe.

At UC-Irvine, USC, Los Alamos, JPL, Pfizer, all heavy simulations of protein folding, protein ligand docking, neuroengineering, and stress tests. I know because I have worked on all of them.

Maybe in you area, they do differently. But in simulations involving lots of floating point calculations, and graphical rendering, they are always done on Macs. Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't do them.

Play2win
02-20-2011, 09:42 PM
Jeeeeez. Who cares. Each system/computer does things its own way and there are benefits to both.

I am far from a computer nerd... I only know what I have experience in. I own a macbook now, cause I went through 6 window based laptops in a three year span between 2005 and 2008. I had both an HP and a Dell get so hot that the bottoms of them began melting. I bought probably 5 new power cords in the time frame as the power cords kept burning out on the Compaq and HP models I had. The acer was toasted when I tripped over its power cord sending it skidding face first across tile, but the other 5 machines all ran into their own unique failures. I learned a very hard lesson on storing everything important to you on your compute often, especially if you're working on big projects.

For me, Windows is a much easier operating system than OSX, because I know it I am familiar with it and it is a language I speak. I struggle on my mac sometimes doing simple things. However, that struggle and the slight price difference between the macbook and a costco laptop is negligible compared to knowing when I trip on the power cord it will come harmlessly out of my computer. The bonus is that so far the macbook seems to be running really smoothly. I never would have gone to Mac if my Dad had not convinced me that the Pro he has owned for years just worked better... Both my dad and mom run their own separate businesses... my Dad has had one Mac while my Mom has gone through 3 computers over the last 4 years... It is my experience so far that Macs work better, keep viruses out better, and are designed to be functional and smooth. I am also convinced you cannot do everything on a Mac you can do on a PC and depending on what role computers play in your life, that pitfall can be huge.

I would also add, each OS has their must-have 3rd party helper-apps. These completely make your system, YOURS... multi-clipboards, hot-key launchers, dropbox, etc... once you get the right add-ons and get to use them right... but, like has been said before-- what ever you're used to, whatever you work best in... works best for you...

But without these add-on apps my mac wouldn't seem half as good (Quicksilver), and I'm sure pc folks would say pretty much the same thing.


No matter what you use DROPBOX is a hell of a great thing. Synch everything and never worry about it again. Desktop/laptop/etc. whatever... it just works.

Play2win
02-20-2011, 09:51 PM
What utter tripe.

At UC-Irvine, USC, Los Alamos, JPL, Pfizer, all heavy simulations of protein folding, protein ligand docking, neuroengineering, and stress tests. I know because I have worked on all of them.

Maybe in you area, they do differently. But in simulations involving lots of floating point calculations, and graphical rendering, they are always done on Macs. Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't do them.

Interesting.

I just hope IOS development is not infringing upon Mac and OSX development.

One thing I always liked about Apple is they design their Hardware specifically for their software (OS), and they design their software (OS) specifically for their hardware.

I owned an iPad for a while, but finally Craigslisted (got $400 back), because it didn't feel like a real computer-- Heck, it wasn't... I mean I couldn't right click on the thing... felt like I was always using two thumbs with the thing. I like Snow leopard... A lot... But Window7 is also nice for the right things...

GoBroncos DownUnder
02-20-2011, 10:07 PM
When I was in grad school, I implemented a prototype version of similar simulations on a PC (Dell). It ran for 4 days, and then the processor burned up and the motherboard fried.. Yeah, I am sure PCs could handle the full, more sophisticated version then.

C'mon man, really? DELL ... It's like using ValueTime Condoms.


Personally, at work we use Mac, but at home I use PC, I probably prefer PC but I admit that I don't mind spending a few extra $$$ on a machine, if it's going to work better.


I do have 2 complaints about Mac, which are NOT the fault of the Mac product:
1- "Anyone" can use a Mac ... so when "anyone" sends me a design, it's often devoid of the most practical necessary things I need to do my job, which causes me grief, etc, etc. Basically the simplicity of the interface allows for a lax attitude by the user, which causes ME a problem.
2- When CHEAP people (ala my boss) buy Mac machines ... and a year or two later "to run that program, you need this OS, which will need hardware improvements or a new machine" ... man do they squeal with every DOLLAR leaving their pocket!
If they just listened and WENT with PCs on non-essential "secretarial machines", it wouldn't be a problem, but alas...


Potatoe, Potato.
Tomatoe, Tomato.

Blart
02-20-2011, 10:42 PM
For power and price, nothing beats building your own:

http://techreport.com/articles.x/19868/2

Popps
02-20-2011, 10:48 PM
What is reality? Is Pro Tools better? Nah, just in YOUR opinion. Don't pass it off as fact just because you're a "pro" and use "Pro Tools" and like it. MANY people (including "pros") don't like Pro Tools.


It's still the industry standard, and it is so for a reason.

9 out of 10 professional houses out here are running PT.

I'd love to see you try to handle the workload my bay receives in a day with "Reaper." You'd be underwater by lunchtime.

Again, use what you want in your bedroom. No one is trying to stop you.

Binkythefrog
02-20-2011, 11:01 PM
It's still the industry standard, and it is so for a reason.

9 out of 10 professional houses out here are running PT.

I'd love to see you try to handle the workload my bay receives in a day with "Reaper." You'd be underwater by lunchtime.

Again, use what you want in your bedroom. No one is trying to stop you.

Especially now that Pro Tools allows users to bring your own hardware its only going to get more popular.

Just curious Popps, as a hobbyist, I love reading about this stuff and just learning on my own free time. How did you get involved with audio/recording/studio work?

BlaK-Argentina
02-20-2011, 11:59 PM
It's still the industry standard, and it is so for a reason.

9 out of 10 professional houses out here are running PT.

I'd love to see you try to handle the workload my bay receives in a day with "Reaper." You'd be underwater by lunchtime.

Again, use what you want in your bedroom. No one is trying to stop you.

I'm not saying it's not. It still doesn't make it better. Jesus, it's like talking to a freaking wall.

I seriously doubt you even tried Reaper but whatever. Keep thinking that Pro Tools is where music software starts and ends. If you don't think Reaper (or Cubase) can handle your "workload" you haven't even tried it. That's a pretty ignorant and arrogant comment with no basis in reality.

And sure, I'll use what I want cause I tried everything and I could care less what you amazing "pros" use.

Have a nice day.

Chris
02-21-2011, 08:52 AM
Calm down folks it's not like we're talking about a white running back here.

BroncosDownUnder are you the aussie that was in NYC for the 05 game?

Anyways...

I've seen BA's arguments. I will say that I am not going to record a lot (definitely vocals w/ the occasional instrument)... most of my stuff will be digital and I will spend most of my time "composing".

As far as the kind of music I want to create there will be some sampling, distortions and lots of sound creation. So... it's going to be mostly digital. I like "Animal Collective" and "Washed Out".

I have to get a laptop and I have to use it for other things (but not a lot). I'm pretty good at keeping a machine "clean". I still don't understand why most people in music use Apples... and this thread hasn't given me any concrete reasons for that.

It seems that unless I'm willing to spend 3 grand on a laptop I should go PC and load up the RAM on an i5 (apparently processor is minor compared to ram with music).

alkemical
02-21-2011, 09:10 AM
I'm using a machine that Pixar uses (spec'd a bit less of course):

HP Z600. QC Xeon, 6GB of ram - 100% bad ass.

Chris
02-21-2011, 10:04 AM
I guess I'll have to wait and see what the Macbook Pro looks like on Thursday.

Requiem
02-21-2011, 10:16 AM
I'll have to think long and hard about if whether or not I'm going to make a switch to Apple when I get my next machine, which will probably be a desktop, preferably one of the All-In-One's that are coming out because I'm likely going to move into a new studio apartment in one of the new development's in downtown Fargo and really want to maximize on space efficiency.

Basically to me, it is coming down to the 21.5" iMac or 21.5" Sony Viao -- both with the i3 core processors.

The Sony has a little less processing power and doesn't include a lot of the great software that the Mac has, but overall it is 400 dollars cheaper, though if I were likely to go out and buy all the stuff I want software wise, it'd come to the same price.

I've always done graphics and design, but have usually relied on Windows based machines for those, though I'm sure their wouldn't be an extensive problem if I switched to a Mac.

The two points that the Mac have me by the balls at, despite price, are the power of the machine (comparatively) and the software it has -- considering I'm a musician and would like to easily be able to record tracks in the future, and my next machine has to be an investment in that area.

Everything I deal with at work is based on Windows and I'm not sure if the programs I use are offered on a Mac, but I could do some looking into. I know I could probably dual boot Windows 7 and Snow Leopard on the same machine if I were to go that way with a Mac anyways, so we will see.

Play2win
02-21-2011, 10:37 AM
Everything I deal with at work is based on Windows and I'm not sure if the programs I use are offered on a Mac, but I could do some looking into. I know I could probably dual boot Windows 7 and Snow Leopard on the same machine if I were to go that way with a Mac anyways, so we will see.

This is what I do. Usually using Parallels. This, on a little 'ol Mac Mini, with a 30" monitor. That is until I get a chance to upgrade. But it works great for what I do, and I haven't missed a beat jumping from SNOW to 7. But, most of my work I do in Snow Leopard-- mainly because I have the complete Adobe CS5 master suite on it.

Tombstone RJ
02-21-2011, 10:37 AM
Its pretty simple IMHO--Apples are the products the rich and spoiled buy, while the working class has to be happy with windows platforms.

Apple is about image.

Ray Finkle
02-21-2011, 10:49 AM
Its pretty simple IMHO--Apples are the products the rich and spoiled buy, while the working class has to be happy with windows platforms.

Apple is about image.

easy to say but I learned on a Mac in the 80's. Switched to a PC in college and switched back before the Mac explosion, they're much better machines.

Tombstone RJ
02-21-2011, 11:06 AM
easy to say but I learned on a Mac in the 80's. Switched to a PC in college and switched back before the Mac explosion, they're much better machines.

I learned on Macs too and back in the day the Mac OS was superior to the windows platform but not so much anymore.

Now, bang for the buck is a windows platform, where "money is no issue" is an Apples platform.

I work in an office that uses both platforms.

Dr. Broncenstein
02-21-2011, 11:10 AM
Building your own desktop / home theater PC from scratch is not difficult. You can get about twice the performance for half the price of any brand name PC. You aren't paying for any unwanted software, support, or store overhead. If anything goes wrong, fix it yourself. I'd like to own a Mac but I'm unwilling to trade in the self-sufficiency that comes with a PC.

I love my iphone 4 and various iPods. It's just too easy from a peripheral device standpoint to resist. My truck stereo has a dedicated 160 gig iPod with my entire music collection and kids videos to keep the rug rats occupied via the headrest monitors. No keeping track of DVDs or CDs. I have a Kicker sound dock in my operating room and just plug my iPhone into that.

gyldenlove
02-21-2011, 11:12 AM
What utter tripe.

At UC-Irvine, USC, Los Alamos, JPL, Pfizer, all heavy simulations of protein folding, protein ligand docking, neuroengineering, and stress tests. I know because I have worked on all of them.

Maybe in you area, they do differently. But in simulations involving lots of floating point calculations, and graphical rendering, they are always done on Macs. Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't do them.

Show me 1 cluster or 1 super computer that is a mac, I would like to see just 1.

I don't know what kind of heavy simulation you do, but when I do one I use a minimum of 200 processor cores and 500 GB of ram.

Popps
02-21-2011, 11:13 AM
Calm down folks it's not like we're talking about a white running back here.
.

:spit:

Cpntrips
02-21-2011, 11:23 AM
Show me 1 cluster or 1 super computer that is a mac, I would like to see just 1.

I don't know what kind of heavy simulation you do, but when I do one I use a minimum of 200 processor cores and 500 GB of ram.

He may very well use macs to do those type of calculations but the premise of his original post is pure garbage, that a PC somehow can't handle those same floating point calculations. Maybe he doesn't realize both systems use the same Intel processors.

tsiguy96
02-21-2011, 11:26 AM
Building your own desktop / home theater PC from scratch is not difficult. You can get about twice the performance for half the price of any brand name PC. You aren't paying for any unwanted software, support, or store overhead. If anything goes wrong, fix it yourself. I'd like to own a Mac but I'm unwilling to trade in the self-sufficiency that comes with a PC.

I love my iphone 4 and various iPods. It's just too easy from a peripheral device standpoint to resist. My truck stereo has a dedicated 160 gig iPod with my entire music collection and kids videos to keep the rug rats occupied via the headrest monitors. No keeping track of DVDs or CDs. I have a Kicker sound dock in my operating room and just plug my iPhone into that.

there is ways to get mac osx on a homemade pc...google it!

Requiem
02-21-2011, 11:29 AM
Building your own desktop / home theater PC from scratch is not difficult. You can get about twice the performance for half the price of any brand name PC. You aren't paying for any unwanted software, support, or store overhead. If anything goes wrong, fix it yourself. I'd like to own a Mac but I'm unwilling to trade in the self-sufficiency that comes with a PC.

I love my iphone 4 and various iPods. It's just too easy from a peripheral device standpoint to resist. My truck stereo has a dedicated 160 gig iPod with my entire music collection and kids videos to keep the rug rats occupied via the headrest monitors. No keeping track of DVDs or CDs. I have a Kicker sound dock in my operating room and just plug my iPhone into that.

The first PC I ever built was a AMD Athlon XP 1600+ with 256 MB of RAM and an ATI Radeon 7500 64MB graphics card back when I was in high school. It was awesome for back then and I never had one problem with anything since I knew what I was doing and built myself. It was almost unfair owning n00bs on Battlefield 1942 online.

Dr. Broncenstein
02-21-2011, 11:32 AM
there is ways to get mac osx on a homemade pc...google it!

I have thought about trying a hacintosh build. Last time I researched the details, it seemed like a serious chore.

Chris
02-21-2011, 11:44 AM
I grew up with these two machines (although my folks had a pc until i was about 4)

http://www.apple-history.com/images/models/se_fdhd.jpg

http://www.apple-history.com/images/models/660_with_mon.jpg

I switched to PC in 96 and have never looked back. That said, the biggest reason for me getting a new machine is home audio. That's really what I want to do with the machine. That's why I'm considering mac.

alkemical
02-21-2011, 11:49 AM
I'll have to think long and hard about if whether or not I'm going to make a switch to Apple when I get my next machine, which will probably be a desktop, preferably one of the All-In-One's that are coming out because I'm likely going to move into a new studio apartment in one of the new development's in downtown Fargo and really want to maximize on space efficiency.

Basically to me, it is coming down to the 21.5" iMac or 21.5" Sony Viao -- both with the i3 core processors.

The Sony has a little less processing power and doesn't include a lot of the great software that the Mac has, but overall it is 400 dollars cheaper, though if I were likely to go out and buy all the stuff I want software wise, it'd come to the same price.

I've always done graphics and design, but have usually relied on Windows based machines for those, though I'm sure their wouldn't be an extensive problem if I switched to a Mac.

The two points that the Mac have me by the balls at, despite price, are the power of the machine (comparatively) and the software it has -- considering I'm a musician and would like to easily be able to record tracks in the future, and my next machine has to be an investment in that area.

Everything I deal with at work is based on Windows and I'm not sure if the programs I use are offered on a Mac, but I could do some looking into. I know I could probably dual boot Windows 7 and Snow Leopard on the same machine if I were to go that way with a Mac anyways, so we will see.

How much are you looking at spending?

I know I can get an HP touchsmart with an i7 for $1500.

Requiem
02-21-2011, 12:12 PM
How much are you looking at spending?

I know I can get an HP touchsmart with an i7 for $1500.

1,500 would probably be my limit, hell I don't even like the idea of spending that much. They have the Sony Viao one at Best Buy I'm talking about for 800. I have a lot of coming expenses by May (new apartment, getting a car, etc.) so getting a nice PC is sort of on the low-end priority list, but would be nice. I won't be getting one until I move though, so I'll have plenty of time to save.

alkemical
02-21-2011, 12:21 PM
1,500 would probably be my limit, hell I don't even like the idea of spending that much. They have the Sony Viao one at Best Buy I'm talking about for 800. I have a lot of coming expenses by May (new apartment, getting a car, etc.) so getting a nice PC is sort of on the low-end priority list, but would be nice. I won't be getting one until I move though, so I'll have plenty of time to save.


Now that I have your price range, let me look. :)

alkemical
02-21-2011, 12:23 PM
Ok:

BT417AA#ABA

That's the cheapest best one I can find that I have access too.

A few online etellers have it for as low as $50 above cost.

BlaK-Argentina
02-21-2011, 12:25 PM
Calm down folks it's not like we're talking about a white running back here.


:spit::spit::spit::spit:

It pissed me off that I was trying to give advice based on my experience and opinion and he attacked me just because I said I don't like Pro Tools.

It's cool, I like Popps.

Popps
02-21-2011, 02:08 PM
I'd like to own a Mac but I'm unwilling to trade in the self-sufficiency that comes with a PC.

Not a true statement by any stretch of the imagination. I haven't had the slightest restriction in 15 years of using multiple macs concurrently across a multitude of businesses and home use. It's simply not an accurate statement.

However, I will agree that if I'm going to use a PC... I'm going to build my own. ( I started my computing journey on PC, and later switched to Mac... mercifully.)

The funniest thing about this entire argument is that people focus so much on the hardware. The hardware isn't ****. It's the OS that matters, and for my money... Mac OS is more stable, less intrusive and absolutely capable of doing anything I need.

Then again, I'm not a shoot-up gamer or anything. If I were... I'd probably build a PC to play shoot-up games.

Again, it just gets back to using the proper tools for your job... and ones that have suited you in the past. I don't begrudge anyone for using a PC, as long as it doesn't have anything to do with the business I'm running.

To each his own.

Popps
02-21-2011, 02:12 PM
:spit::spit::spit::spit:

It pissed me off that I was trying to give advice based on my experience and opinion and he attacked me just because I said I don't like Pro Tools.

It's cool, I like Popps.

Look, I wasn't attacking you... you just made statements that were misleading and inaccurate, OUTSIDE of just your opinion.

Reaper simply can't hold water to Pro Tools for real-world applications. I don't mean rapping over drum beats in a basement somewhere... I'm talking about critical, CPU-intensive, high track-count, high DSP work.

However, I HAVE used Reaper and I admire the effort that has gone into it. I'd also agree that for most home users, it could do the job.

But, your original statement as akin to saying... "The Beatles are stupid and didn't do anything for rock music."

It's the same with the Mac/PC war. (Whatever that's all about.)

For some reason, people just can't use what they like... they feel like they need to purvey misinformation about the other platform to make their point.

Jetmeck
02-21-2011, 02:13 PM
This is typical case of APPLES vs ORANGES....................lol
Apple is overpriced and overated. All marketing.............

Chris
02-21-2011, 02:14 PM
Look, I wasn't attacking you... you just made statements that were misleading and inaccurate, OUTSIDE of just your opinion.

Reaper simply can't hold water to Pro Tools for real-world applications. I don't mean rapping over drum beats in a basement somewhere... I'm talking about critical, CPU-intensive, high track-count, high DSP work.

However, I HAVE used Reaper and I admire the effort that has gone into it. I'd also agree that for most home users, it could do the job.

But, your original statement as akin to saying... "The Beatles are stupid and didn't do anything for rock music."

It's the same with the Mac/PC war. (Whatever that's all about.)

For some reason, people just can't use what they like... they feel like they need to purvey misinformation about the other platform to make their point.

Could I make something like this on Reaper?

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/X-ebZt_plw0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I've been looking largely at Ableton.

Popps
02-21-2011, 02:18 PM
Chris,

Sounds mostly like synths, samples and loops. You should be able to do that on about anything. (Logic, Reason, Pro Tools, Reaper, etc.) Hell, you could probably do that in Garage Band.

Though, your sample/loop choices are going to be limited to whatever platform you're using. From what I've heard, if you're strictly composing... Logic is a great choice. It's cheap, easily expandable and while it's a little clunky, not that hard to get used to.

What I wouldn't want to use Logic for is editing/mixing of any real capacity. (But, people can and do.)

Popps
02-21-2011, 02:21 PM
Its pretty simple IMHO--Apples are the products the rich and spoiled buy, while the working class has to be happy with windows platforms.

Apple is about image.


Tomb, you're just way too smart to believe that.

I'll accept that nonsense from a dummy, but you're no dummy.

I was beyond "working class" for a long time and found ways to work on Macs.
It was simply a better platform for what I was doing. It had nothing to do with "class structure" and certainly wasn't about "image." Who even KNOWS you're using a Mac, by the way? How does image play into it?

I built my business from the ground up from a time I could hardly pay my bills using Macs. I guess that's why I do have some product loyalty.

Chris
02-21-2011, 02:31 PM
Thanks. I've read on multiple audio forums that people think Ableton is the best for on the fly creativity. I don't really want to start with one program... buy a bunch of plugins and then have to switch when I want to do more. I'm committed to this for the long haul. I've definitely decided to just get a controller and a bunch of plugins because I don't plan to play live any time soon.

P.S. I just realised you were Popps. Quit changing avvies!

BlaK-Argentina
02-21-2011, 02:31 PM
Look, I wasn't attacking you... you just made statements that were misleading and inaccurate, OUTSIDE of just your opinion.

Reaper simply can't hold water to Pro Tools for real-world applications. I don't mean rapping over drum beats in a basement somewhere... I'm talking about critical, CPU-intensive, high track-count, high DSP work.

However, I HAVE used Reaper and I admire the effort that has gone into it. I'd also agree that for most home users, it could do the job.

But, your original statement as akin to saying... "The Beatles are stupid and didn't do anything for rock music."

It's the same with the Mac/PC war. (Whatever that's all about.)

For some reason, people just can't use what they like... they feel like they need to purvey misinformation about the other platform to make their point.

What exactly were my misleading and inaccurate comments? That I DON'T LIKE Pro Tools? I never said he shouldn't use it. I never said it's crap, I just said I DON'T LIKE it and that Cubase or Reaper can do anything Pro Tools does. That's a FACT. Go read about it if you want, the fact that you work in music production means squat. Maybe you haven't seen Reaper lately, or Cubase for that matter but they can do anything Pro Tools does. You can't do it exactly the same... that's why they're different, but the same stuff, just in a different way.

About this: I don't mean rapping over drum beats in a basement somewhere... I'm talking about critical, CPU-intensive, high track-count, high DSP work. that's pure crap. You should see what my projects look like and the amount of editing I do. I've done it all in Pro Tools before and I changed cause Reaper was way faster (FOR ME) and I just had a better workflow with it.

You act like I said: "Hey don't use Pro Tools, it sucks! Use Reaper yeeeahh!"

Come on man...

BlaK-Argentina
02-21-2011, 02:36 PM
Could I make something like this on Reaper?

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/X-ebZt_plw0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I've been looking largely at Ableton.

You can do ANYTHING with Reaper, believe me. Anything you may be able to do in the all powerful Pro Tools is there to be done in Reaper, just in a different way. I don't think Popps took the effort to see what it has to offer.
For that kind of stuff I'd use a Reaper-Reason combo. Reason is awesome for techno, loops, etc. and comes with a loooot of different sounds.

I can show you some of the things I've done with Reaper if you want.

Popps
02-21-2011, 02:36 PM
. Maybe you haven't seen Reaper lately, or Cubase for that matter but they can do anything Pro Tools does. .

Cubase? Maybe. Reaper? I doubt it.

Beyond that, I've already said just use what you like.

Why is that so hard for people?

SoCalBronco
02-21-2011, 02:42 PM
Hillis > Apple products

The guns just do it for me.

BlaK-Argentina
02-21-2011, 02:43 PM
Cubase? Maybe. Reaper? I doubt it.

Beyond that, I've already said just use what you like.

Why is that so hard for people?

Reaper does ANYTHING Pro Tools does. You can even make it look (same menus and all) like Pro Tools. That's why so many people have made the jump.

And again I'm just giving MY opinion, where the hell am I trying to convince anyone NOT to use Pro Tools? I just think it's nuts to pay so much more money for something that other software does just as well for WAY less money.

broncosteven
02-21-2011, 02:43 PM
The first PC I ever built was a AMD Athlon XP 1600+ with 256 MB of RAM and an ATI Radeon 7500 64MB graphics card back when I was in high school. It was awesome for back then and I never had one problem with anything since I knew what I was doing and built myself. It was almost unfair owning n00bs on Battlefield 1942 online.

My 1st was a 486 with 8meg Ram and built in graphics that only supported 16bit and 3 resoltions which I could only use 1 because my monitor couldn't handle it.

It was awesome back then also.

I remember waiting in a long line around christmas to get an additional 8mg of ram for only $116.00!

I used my old 386 to install Novell Netware 3.10, 3.11 hadn't shipped.

The trick which helped me move over into the new PC support group was getting Wolfenstien and Doom to run on the network. You had to boot the drivers a certain way and manage the upper memory just right to be able to connect to the network and play capture the flag with friends.

Popps
02-21-2011, 02:46 PM
Reaper does ANYTHING Pro Tools does. You can even make it look (same menus and all) like Pro Tools. That's why so many people have made the jump.

I see, so... Reaper has modeled itself after Pro Tools?

Wonder why that might be.

Popps
02-21-2011, 02:47 PM
Hillis > Apple products

The guns just do it for me.

Lock up the thread.

BlaK-Argentina
02-21-2011, 02:48 PM
Anyway I'm done arguing. If you still think that you can't do in Reaper what you do in PT I can't convince you, but I've been there and done that with both programs.

BlaK-Argentina
02-21-2011, 02:50 PM
I see, so... Reaper has modeled itself after Pro Tools?

Wonder why that might be.

Lol, not at all... but people don't like change so when they make the jump they're used to working in a certain way and Reaper allows you to do just that. It is fully customizable... menus, themes, mouse behavior, etc. etc. I'm talking about users making it look like PT.

Popps
02-21-2011, 02:52 PM
Anyway I'm done arguing. If you still think that you can't do in Reaper what you do in PT I can't convince you, but I've been there and done that with both programs.

No, you've done what YOU do. So, you can do what YOU DO on Reaper.

That's great for you, and you should keep doing so.

BlaK-Argentina
02-21-2011, 02:53 PM
And lastly... just because Pro Tools "came first" or is the industry standard doesn't mean it is and always will be the best. That's just dumb. I don't care how many people are using a product, that doesn't say a thing about how good that product may be.

Hell a lot of people drive Renaults and Peugeot down here but they're still crap.

BlaK-Argentina
02-21-2011, 02:54 PM
No, you've done what YOU do. So, you can do what YOU DO on Reaper.

That's great for you, and you should keep doing so.

Ok so what is it EXACTLY that YOU do that can't be done in Reaper? Still waiting for an example...

broncosteven
02-21-2011, 02:56 PM
I guess I'll have to wait and see what the Macbook Pro looks like on Thursday.

One other thing I would recommend is that I would pickout your audio interface before you buy anything.

A lot of the newer laptops don't ship with firewire onboard and alot of the higher end interfaces don't use USB. Neither do they ship with pcmcia cards to install a firewire adapter.

I just bought an HP i5 laptop (which I love) for $800 at best buy and cannot connect it to my MOTU 828 mk3, which is fine because I bought it for Network support tasks. I had to buy a Rs232 to usb adapter to connect to routers and switches.

Pick out your interface then pick out your PC/Laptop.

alkemical
02-21-2011, 03:00 PM
One other thing I would recommend is that I would pickout your audio interface before you buy anything.

A lot of the newer laptops don't ship with firewire onboard and alot of the higher end interfaces don't use USB. Neither do they ship with pcmcia cards to install a firewire adapter.

I just bought an HP i5 laptop (which I love) for $800 at best buy and cannot connect it to my MOTU 828 mk3, which is fine because I bought it for Network support tasks. I had to buy a Rs232 to usb adapter to connect to routers and switches.

Pick out your interface then pick out your PC/Laptop.

I'm looking at an HP Elitebook i7.

Popps
02-21-2011, 03:06 PM
Ok so what is it EXACTLY that YOU do that can't be done in Reaper? Still waiting for an example...

128 tracks, pushing proprietary 192 KHZ interfaces, running a multitude of TDM plug-ins, busing out to 15-20 pieces of outboard gear, running surround with proprietary in-board surround panning, running Dolby Media Manager for network broadcast feed standards, monitoring with zero latency, running a 48 channel proprietary HUI, top-flight restoration software from all major providers, RTAS support, internal TDM processing power....

and that's just off the top of my head. Oh, and when something goes wrong... and it rarely does... we've got support for our bays.


I'm sure Reaper does a lot. I'm sure they're making the best Pro Tools clone they can, and if you're a bedroom recordist... I've got no doubt it does the job.

But, I'm just telling you the facts. I work at the top of the industry and no one is choosing to use Reaper yet. Someday? Maybe. Doesn't mean it's not fine for your purposes and you should really just be more confident in your choices.

Chris
02-21-2011, 03:07 PM
One other thing I would recommend is that I would pickout your audio interface before you buy anything.

A lot of the newer laptops don't ship with firewire onboard and alot of the higher end interfaces don't use USB. Neither do they ship with pcmcia cards to install a firewire adapter.

I just bought an HP i5 laptop (which I love) for $800 at best buy and cannot connect it to my MOTU 828 mk3, which is fine because I bought it for Network support tasks. I had to buy a Rs232 to usb adapter to connect to routers and switches.

Pick out your interface then pick out your PC/Laptop.

I had found an interface I wanted. There were only two inputs on it since I wasn't going to be doing a lot of live recording... but that was a while ago and now I can't remember what it was.

If my budget is 2300... macbook pro (comes out on thursday) or what pc laptop could I get suped up for home audio?

Popps
02-21-2011, 03:08 PM
Especially now that Pro Tools allows users to bring your own hardware its only going to get more popular.

Just curious Popps, as a hobbyist, I love reading about this stuff and just learning on my own free time. How did you get involved with audio/recording/studio work?

Sorry, missed this... will PM you, Binky.

BlaK-Argentina
02-21-2011, 03:15 PM
128 tracks, pushing proprietary 192 KHZ interfaces, running a multitude of TDM plug-ins, busing out to 15-20 pieces of outboard gear, running surround with proprietary in-board surround panning, running Dolby Media Manager for network broadcast feed standards, monitoring with zero latency, running a 48 channel proprietary HUI, top-flight restoration software from all major providers, RTAS support, internal TDM processing power....

and that's just off the top of my head. Oh, and when something goes wrong... and it rarely does... we've got support for our bays.


I'm sure Reaper does a lot. I'm sure they're making the best Pro Tools clone they can, and if you're a bedroom recordist... I've got no doubt it does the job.

But, I'm just telling you the facts. I work at the top of the industry and no one is choosing to use Reaper yet. Someday? Maybe. Doesn't mean it's not fine for your purposes and you should really just be more confident in your choices.

Lol Reaper actually does most of that, and they have great support. Maybe you should look into stuff before talking so much.

I'm EXTREMELY confident in my choices. I've tried everything and anything and all I use now is Reaper and Reason. Plus you have no idea what I do so again you're just talking out of your ass.

And no they're not making a Pro Tools clone, they are looking to make a better product and they are extremely close, if not there yet. You have no idea how powerful Reaper has become and you're giving out misinformation like it's candy on Halloween. Let Chris or whoever try things out instead of coming out like a PT fanboy that doesn't care that there are other programs that can do things just as well.

I've worked in a studio and with Pro Tools for years and it's not any better IMO.

Anyway, I'm seriously done with this... I could care less what the "industry" uses cause even amazing bands like Spock's Beard choose not to use Pro Tools. Studios use it because like you said, it IS the industry standard and it's all about marketing.

Again, have a nice day cause I'm done with this thread. :) Chris is you want to check some of my stuff out PM me!

Popps
02-21-2011, 03:27 PM
Lol Reaper actually does most of that, and they have great support. Maybe you should look into stuff before talking so much.

I'm sure it does "most of" that "stuff."

I'm also sure they've got a support team that can show up in our bay, on-call, any time right?

Like I said, there's a reason no pro houses are using consumer software.

Just use it, enjoy it and don't worry about what the top end of the industry is doing.

Que
02-21-2011, 03:31 PM
I laugh at this thread.

Chris
02-21-2011, 03:32 PM
I laugh at this thread.

Que?

Ray Finkle
02-21-2011, 03:47 PM
I learned on Macs too and back in the day the Mac OS was superior to the windows platform but not so much anymore.

Now, bang for the buck is a windows platform, where "money is no issue" is an Apples platform.

I work in an office that uses both platforms.

good point. I'd rather spend the $$$ on a computer that is going to last and not crap out in three years like most PC's.

Que
02-21-2011, 03:48 PM
Que?

The tastes great... less filling nature of Apple vs. all other technology argument.

It is actually quite foolish on both sides. But since, we're doing this, a few observations to think about:

1. Apple's marketshare, stock price, market cap and EPS make it the biggest tech company in the world. Heck, I am pretty sure it is on pace to exceed (if it hasn't already) Exxon to be the most valuable company in the world (market cap).

2. Their rise has been meteorically consistent (heh how's that for some words) since Jobs took over again.

3. They're known to always have the killer product in almost every category they're in... for years... So uber product focused right?

4. They're known to have the best marketing campaigns evar - so uber marketing savvy right?

Now, let's talk about what they don't do:

1. They don't do Twitter, at all
2. They don't do blogs, at all
3. They don't do SEM advertising, at all
4. They don't do Facebook, at all
5. They don't ask users what they want, at all
6. They don't intentionally leak inside scoop. They're uber secretive... Hell, they don't even attend CES or MacWorld anymore

Here is what they do do:

1. They sell all new products through their own stores initially, or at least show great preference for stocking their own stores and make other big box retailers feel like redheaded stepchildren
2. They spend a lot on TV, billboards and glossy magazine advertising. Isn't that like... dead?
3. They buy interactive display advertising... isn't that like also dead?

So, imagine you're a management consultant trying to tell an old school company how to get with it in the new world. Isn't everything I listed above contrary to the advice you would give? If you were to remove "Apple" and replace it with "Alcoa" or "Cargill" or some other dinosaur, would anything change? Nope. They behave like marketing Luddites from a 50,000 foot view and yet, they're considered to be the most bleeding edge company out there. Go figure... If Apple is anything, it is an enigma

Que
02-21-2011, 03:54 PM
good point. I'd rather spend the $$$ on a computer that is going to last and not crap out in three years like most PC's.

I switched my company to all Apple products because of this - got tired of having to shell out cap ex for replacements every 18 months. Oldest Macbook Pro in rotation now entered its 40th month with no need for a replacement being discussed.

That for me is priceless...

Popps
02-21-2011, 04:02 PM
1. They don't do Twitter, at all
2. They don't do blogs, at all
3. They don't do SEM advertising, at all
4. They don't do Facebook, at all
5. They don't ask users what they want, at all
6. They don't intentionally leak inside scoop. They're uber secretive... Hell, they don't even attend CES or MacWorld anymore


You're going to need to explain that one. From where I'm sitting (behind a Mac)... those are all false.

Hell, I can do most of that from my iPhone.

misturanderson
02-21-2011, 04:14 PM
You're going to need to explain that one. From where I'm sitting (behind a Mac)... those are all false.

Hell, I can do most of that from my iPhone.

He's saying Apple doesn't use those outlets for their own advertisements.

broncosteven
02-21-2011, 04:31 PM
128 tracks, pushing proprietary 192 KHZ interfaces, running a multitude of TDM plug-ins, busing out to 15-20 pieces of outboard gear, running surround with proprietary in-board surround panning, running Dolby Media Manager for network broadcast feed standards, monitoring with zero latency, running a 48 channel proprietary HUI, top-flight restoration software from all major providers, RTAS support, internal TDM processing power....

and that's just off the top of my head. Oh, and when something goes wrong... and it rarely does... we've got support for our bays.


I'm sure Reaper does a lot. I'm sure they're making the best Pro Tools clone they can, and if you're a bedroom recordist... I've got no doubt it does the job.

But, I'm just telling you the facts. I work at the top of the industry and no one is choosing to use Reaper yet. Someday? Maybe. Doesn't mean it's not fine for your purposes and you should really just be more confident in your choices.

A pro-tools system like that probably cost your station/network anywhere from $75,000 to $250,000 or more depending on the console, Master clock, plug-ins, # of interfaces, and # of rooms/bays.

If you look at Sweetwater their Pro tools bundles are into the $100,000 range for console, interfaces, timepiece, plug-ins.

Que
02-21-2011, 04:50 PM
He's saying Apple doesn't use those outlets for their own advertisements.

Ya, thanks for clarifying that. They don't use any of those channels for marketing or customer relations. Yet they're consistently hitting it out of the park both from a product and marketing/advertising perspective. Pretty amazing as far as I am concerned and it speaks volumes about having the right product at the right time with the right price point.

Good example of that is Apple TV 2.0. Pure genius with the $99 price tag. Ultimate corporate "important but not critical client gift" or the spouse, sibling, parent, child priced gift. That and the fact that my dog can figure out how install and use it without reading the instructions.

Popps
02-21-2011, 04:50 PM
A pro-tools system like that probably cost your station/network anywhere from $75,000 to $250,000 or more depending on the console, Master clock, plug-ins, # of interfaces, and # of rooms/bays.

If you look at Sweetwater their Pro tools bundles are into the $100,000 range for console, interfaces, timepiece, plug-ins.

Right.

You can also get a very functional PT set-up, including hardware for about $250.

Popps
02-21-2011, 04:52 PM
That and the fact that my dog can figure out how install and use it without reading the instructions.

We love ours. :)

GoBroncos DownUnder
02-21-2011, 04:54 PM
BroncosDownUnder are you the aussie that was in NYC for the 05 game?

Yes I was, now living in Pittsburgh! 8')
Who are you?? :wiggle:

broncosteven
02-21-2011, 05:30 PM
Right.

You can also get a very functional PT set-up, including hardware for about $250.

But everyone knows that's only for idiots rapping over loops in their bedroom.

LOL

Chris
02-21-2011, 05:52 PM
Yes I was, now living in Pittsburgh! 8')
Who are you?? :wiggle:

That was my 21st birthday. I was the skinny hipster kid from Hong Kong and my older brother was the guy that looked like a complete tool (the one that wasn't a giants fan).

atomicbloke
02-21-2011, 06:01 PM
Show me 1 cluster or 1 super computer that is a mac, I would like to see just 1.

I don't know what kind of heavy simulation you do, but when I do one I use a minimum of 200 processor cores and 500 GB of ram.

System X. Virginia Tech designed it with 1,100 G5's, which at that time was the 3rd fastest supercomputer in the world. In 2008, they upgraded it with 324 Mac Pros, and it ranked in the top 100 Supercomputers in the world then.

And anyways, I don't use Supercomputers. I run a small shop, and all my clients and competitors use Macs. If PCs were so awesome and can result in more $$$$ to the bottom line, why hasn't any of my competitors switched to PCs?

atomicbloke
02-21-2011, 06:08 PM
He may very well use macs to do those type of calculations but the premise of his original post is pure garbage, that a PC somehow can't handle those same floating point calculations. Maybe he doesn't realize both systems use the same Intel processors.

Oh sure PCs can handle them. Just that Macs can handle them more reliably, and need less maintenance.

I do know they both use Intel processors. But its more than buying a few Intel processors from Newegg and putting them together. There is a lot of engineering that goes on behind constructing reliable rigs.

When I was a grad student, I was poor, and hence did all my work on Dells. I also spent a lot of time fixing stuff. Now I do this for a living. Going with PCs would mean more costs for maintenance. So Macs were a no brainer. If I needed a rig for some experimental hobby project at home, maybe I would go with a PC. But for work, I need the most reliable machine even if I have to pay a premium.

Popps
02-21-2011, 06:20 PM
But everyone knows that's only for idiots rapping over loops in their bedroom.

LOL

Meh. I have a back-up LE system on my laptop I've used to get me out of jams before. Pretty good bang for the buck, imo.

atomicbloke
02-21-2011, 06:32 PM
Lol Reaper actually does most of that, and they have great support. Maybe you should look into stuff before talking so much.



Off Topic, but I couldn't help notice that the ticket office at La Bombonera in La Boca was all equipped with Macs :D :D

Agamemnon
02-21-2011, 06:56 PM
I pay $45,000 a year to go to school. The extra $700 for a better computer to do all my schoolwork on is not only an investment, it's really not that much in the long run.

Having used both PCs and Macs extensively, I can say with complete confidence that Macs are not better than quality built PCs that are $500+ cheaper. They just aren't. They are different, with different strengths and weaknesses, just not better.

What I find with most Apple fanatics is that they are convinced of Apple's superiority with virtually no experience using alternate products. It's odd really.

Chris
02-21-2011, 07:04 PM
I'm still no closer to picking between PC and Apple when I pick up a laptop in the coming weeks.

GoBroncos DownUnder
02-21-2011, 07:04 PM
That was my 21st birthday. I was the skinny hipster kid from Hong Kong and my older brother was the guy that looked like a complete tool (the one that wasn't a giants fan).
Yeah, I remember you, the only guy from (almost) MY timezone! Them were good times ... in retrospect AWESOME times actually!

Popps
02-21-2011, 07:12 PM
What I find with most Apple fanatics is that they are convinced of Apple's superiority with virtually no experience using alternate products. It's odd really.

I started on PC. Worked on Windows for a few years before moving to Mac full-time. In fact, I'm still using Windows from time to time, for the random odd and end that comes up.

I'd agree with your statement completely if you just inverted it. 90% of Windows users have no experience with Mac OS, and hence aren't really qualified to call it superior or inferior. They ARE qualified to give their opinion of what they like, of course.

Again, this whole thing boils down to OS preference, for me. Yes, I've had excellent stability with my Mac hardware over the years, but I'm sure if you build a PC correctly, you could have similar hardware stability. But, you'd have to work on Windows... and for me, that's simply intolerable.

Again, to each his own.

Chris
02-21-2011, 07:18 PM
Yeah, I remember you, the only guy from (almost) MY timezone! Them were good times ... in retrospect AWESOME times actually!

Cool man. Funny... I'm supposed to be in Sydney for 3 months for work but had to turn it down. Beautiful city that... I'dve been in trouble given all the lovely sheilas down there.

90% of Windows users have no experience with Mac OS, and hence aren't really qualified to call it superior or inferior.

I don't really think this is true Popps. I think a lot of people, like myself, have fooled around plenty on macs but the majority still end up using PCs (whether due to habit, cost, work, etc.).

Here's a question - there's a chance I might be going back to school in the near future. Schools tend to use mac, correct? I'm trying to see how that might be an issue. Most docs are compatible cross platform now anyway.

chadta
02-21-2011, 07:19 PM
You guys are still going on about this ?

Let me guess somebody said something negative about mac and the apple cult had to rush in and destroy him.

broncosteven
02-21-2011, 07:25 PM
I started on PC. Worked on Windows for a few years before moving to Mac full-time. In fact, I'm still using Windows from time to time, for the random odd and end that comes up.

I'd agree with your statement completely if you just inverted it. 90% of Windows users have no experience with Mac OS, and hence aren't really qualified to call it superior or inferior. They ARE qualified to give their opinion of what they like, of course.

Again, this whole thing boils down to OS preference, for me. Yes, I've had excellent stability with my Mac hardware over the years, but I'm sure if you build a PC correctly, you could have similar hardware stability. But, you'd have to work on Windows... and for me, that's simply intolerable.

Again, to each his own.

Count me in the 10%. I have never owned one but I have had to support them on both wired and Wireless networks.

Your 90% comment works both ways in my experience. I am swapping guitar lessons for Computer support with my Guitar teacher. The kicker is she has a Mac and she bought it because it was so easy to use, she has never owned a Windows PC. Everytime we I go she tells me how much better it is and easier to use than a Windows system, full on MS hater. but I need to show her how to use it. I hope that this setup lasts for awhile yet, she is the best teacher I ever had and is expensive. It works both ways Popps.

I am guessing that you haven't seen or used Win 7 yet.

Chris
02-21-2011, 07:35 PM
Popps stop being old and listen to the space man.

ZachKC
02-21-2011, 08:02 PM
You guys are still going on about this ?

Let me guess somebody said something negative about mac and the apple cult had to rush in and destroy him.

Why is the other side of the coin so different?

People who rush to defend mac's all the time look just as silly as people who go out of their way to always bash them.

Popps
02-21-2011, 08:03 PM
I am guessing that you haven't seen or used Win 7 yet.

No. I've seen it, futzed with it... but haven't used it. I have XP installed on my Macbook Pro on a partition if I need Windows. I guess I could install 7. I hear it's an improvement, which is like 15 years overdue.

I'm sure I'll use 7 at some point, but it's not like I'm looking to. I'm 100% happy with the OS on all of my machines.

Popps
02-21-2011, 08:09 PM
Most docs are compatible cross platform now anyway.

Most everything is cross-platform, now days. Another reason it's just better to choose the OS you like. Again, unless you're playing shooter games and want to build a gaming rig.... the hardware in your average Mac or PC these days is probably going to be sufficient, and if not... you can upgrade to what you need.

Once again, it boils down to an OS preference. To me, it's a simple choice.

It's like vehicles. I didn't buy a BMW. I bought a car for a little less money that I think is nicer. I think it's got a nicer interior and handles just as well or better. I'm loyal to the brand of car I bought.

That said, I'm not going to say someone is "stupid" for driving a BMW... even if I feel like I might have gotten more car for my dollar. If someone wants to drive a Bimmer, have at it. Enjoy it. Why would I care?

This whole notion of being angry about someone's computer choice is just insanity, particularly when the vast majority of those angry simply don't have real world experience on both platforms.

Just use what you like. Pay what you can afford.

Where's the confusion in that?

Popps
02-21-2011, 08:12 PM
Why is the other side of the coin so different?

People who rush to defend mac's all the time look just as silly as people who go out of their way to always bash them.

Hey, someone made a thread dedicated to me because he saved 8 dollars on a pocket music player. I simply responded. If the thread creator would have listened to me 4 years ago when we had this conversation and I told him "spend less time criticizing Apple and more time buying their stock," he'd be up 200% on his investment and wouldn't have to worry about saving 8 dollars.

And by the way, I don't recall an "Anti-Windows" thread from a Mac user in the history of this forum, and yet we see anti-Mac threads from "happy" Windows users on almost a weekly basis.

Now, you do the math.

broncosteven
02-21-2011, 08:20 PM
Most everything is cross-platform, now days. Another reason it's just better to choose the OS you like. Again, unless you're playing shooter games and want to build a gaming rig.... the hardware in your average Mac or PC these days is probably going to be sufficient, and if not... you can upgrade to what you need.

Once again, it boils down to an OS preference. To me, it's a simple choice.

It's like vehicles. I didn't buy a BMW. I bought a car for a little less money that I think is nicer. I think it's got a nicer interior and handles just as well or better. I'm loyal to the brand of car I bought.

That said, I'm not going to say someone is "stupid" for driving a BMW... even if I feel like I might have gotten more car for my dollar. If someone wants to drive a Bimmer, have at it. Enjoy it. Why would I care?

This whole notion of being angry about someone's computer choice is just insanity, particularly when the vast majority of those angry simply don't have real world experience on both platforms.

Just use what you like. Pay what you can afford.

Where's the confusion in that?

So I take it you won't be buying an Audi or Merc either?

Chris
02-21-2011, 08:24 PM
Most everything is cross-platform, now days. Another reason it's just better to choose the OS you like. Again, unless you're playing shooter games and want to build a gaming rig.... the hardware in your average Mac or PC these days is probably going to be sufficient, and if not... you can upgrade to what you need.

Once again, it boils down to an OS preference. To me, it's a simple choice.

It's like vehicles. I didn't buy a BMW. I bought a car for a little less money that I think is nicer. I think it's got a nicer interior and handles just as well or better. I'm loyal to the brand of car I bought.

That said, I'm not going to say someone is "stupid" for driving a BMW... even if I feel like I might have gotten more car for my dollar. If someone wants to drive a Bimmer, have at it. Enjoy it. Why would I care?

This whole notion of being angry about someone's computer choice is just insanity, particularly when the vast majority of those angry simply don't have real world experience on both platforms.

Just use what you like. Pay what you can afford.

Where's the confusion in that?

You are stupid for not driving a BMW.

Popps
02-21-2011, 08:27 PM
You are stupid for not driving a BMW.

ROFL!

Que
02-21-2011, 08:29 PM
Again, this whole thing boils down to OS preference, for me. Yes, I've had excellent stability with my Mac hardware over the years, but I'm sure if you build a PC correctly, you could have similar hardware stability. But, you'd have to work on Windows... and for me, that's simply intolerable.

Again, to each his own.

Quoted for truth. I used to build my own PCs and obsess about every part. Then I tried OS X and never went back. Not worth the hassle though Windows 7 is pretty good. Never though I would be in the cult of Apple but now I won't let a PC take up residence in my house and I refuse to support one through my extended family. Simply put, I dont have the patience anymore. I heart easy.

GoBroncos DownUnder
02-21-2011, 08:29 PM
Here's a question - there's a chance I might be going back to school in the near future. Schools tend to use mac, correct? I'm trying to see how that might be an issue. Most docs are compatible cross platform now anyway.
After not using a Mac for 10+ years I went back to working on one in 2008, it all came back easily, they're still simple, solid machines.
If I decided to run all my stuff on Mac, I DO have some doubts about how easily I would be able to swap back to using a PC.


(Is it just me or is this topic reeking of a Republican/Democrat debate? Nobody can concede the other sides positive uses, while they drone on about how crappy the other computer/race/country/religion/political party is!?!) :wiggle:

Popps
02-21-2011, 08:29 PM
So I take it you won't be buying an Audi or Merc either?

Merc? Absolutely not. Co-worker drives a newer C-class and I wasn't very impressed.

Audi? They've supposedly improved their quality concerns. Depends how long you're holding it, I guess.

Personally, I'd hate to go deep into ownership with a German-made car. Just seems to to get too pricey too quickly as they age.

But again, to each his own.

Que
02-21-2011, 08:32 PM
After not using a Mac for 10+ years I went back to working on one in 2008, it all came back easily, they're still simple, solid machines.
If I decided to run all my stuff on Mac, I DO have some doubts about how easily I would be able to swap back to using a PC.


(Is it just me or is this topic reeking of a Republican/Democrat debate? Nobody can concede the other sides positive uses, while they drone on about how crappy the other computer/race/country/religion/political party is!?!) :wiggle:

Tastes great!

Less filling!

Though, that analogy is losing it's relevancy as the *gulp* decades pile up. Jesus I am old

Que
02-21-2011, 08:35 PM
Merc? Absolutely not. Co-worker drives a newer C-class and I wasn't very impressed.

Audi? They've supposedly improved their quality concerns. Depends how long you're holding it, I guess.

Personally, I'd hate to go deep into ownership with a German-made car. Just seems to to get too pricey too quickly as they age.

But again, to each his own.

Rules to live by:

1. Don't fight a land war in Asia
2. Don't piss into the wind
3. Don't tug on Superman's cape
4. And whatever you do, NEVER own an Audi out of warranty! Anyone want a sweet deal on a 2001 Allroad? Anyone?

broncosteven
02-21-2011, 08:41 PM
Rules to live by:

1. Don't fight a land war in Asia
2. Don't piss into the wind
3. Don't tug on Superman's cape
4. And whatever you do, NEVER own an Audi out of warranty! Anyone want a sweet deal on a 2001 Allroad? Anyone?

I didn't know they were so bad, a friend has had his Audi for a good 15 years he is determined to drive it into the ground. Audi was never on my radar when I was in the market for a salloon going on 9 years ago.

Popps
02-21-2011, 08:47 PM
Rules to live by:

1. Don't fight a land war in Asia
2. Don't piss into the wind
3. Don't tug on Superman's cape
4. And whatever you do, NEVER own an Audi out of warranty! Anyone want a sweet deal on a 2001 Allroad? Anyone?

Yea, I believe it. Did some research on them when I was looking a while back and it seemed pretty scary.

Dr. Broncenstein
02-21-2011, 08:47 PM
Quoted for truth. I used to build my own PCs and obsess about every part. Then I tried OS X and never went back. Not worth the hassle though Windows 7 is pretty good. Never though I would be in the cult of Apple but now I won't let a PC take up residence in my house and I refuse to support one through my extended family. Simply put, I dont have the patience anymore. I heart easy.

I'd really like to try out a Mac, but I can't get over paying 2-3 times the price for equivalent PC hardware. They are running Intel chips, ATI video cards, DDR3 memory, and SATA drives. That sounds just like garden variety PC components to me. I build mine to maximize the price/performance, so I'm typically about 6 months behind the state of the art when built. So when I built my most recent home theater PC, I built by any stretch a monster for about 1700 bucks. Equivocal hardware priced on apple's website today is 4374.00, at nearly a year behind the state of the art.

Count me in as a fan of Windows 7. I was a holdover from XP, and I'm pretty happy with the switch. I'd love to throw OS X on a partition and give it a try. I'm not really willing to make a giant hassle out of it, as it seems to be at this point.

Ray Finkle
02-21-2011, 08:48 PM
Rules to live by:

1. Don't fight a land war in Asia
2. Don't piss into the wind
3. Don't tug on Superman's cape
4. And whatever you do, NEVER own an Audi out of warranty! Anyone want a sweet deal on a 2001 Allroad? Anyone?

good call....we got rid of ours after it crapped out (past its warranty).

Popps
02-21-2011, 08:51 PM
I'd really like to try out a Mac, but I can't get over paying 2-3 times the price for equivalent PC hardware. They are running Intel chips, ATI video cards, DDR3 memory, and SATA drives. That sounds just like garden variety PC components to me. I build mine to maximize the price/performance, so I'm typically about 6 months behind the state of the art when built. So when I built my most recent home theater PC, I built by any stretch a monster for about 1700 bucks. Equivocal hardware priced on apple's website today is 4374.00, at nearly a year behind the state of the art.

Count me in as a fan of Windows 7. I was a holdover from XP, and I'm pretty happy with the switch. I'd love to throw OS X on a partition and give it a try. I'm not really willing to make a giant hassle out of it, as it seems to be at this point.


Hardware doesn't equate at a 1:1 ratio across these platforms. Lots of info out there on that subject.

Beyond that, again... it's an OS issue, imo. I've never owned a Mac that couldn't do what I asked it to do, hardware-wise. But, it's the OS that is the difference-maker for me.

But, if Windows 7 is working out for you, than you're good to go. I'm glad they've made improvements. Windows users have certainly deserved those upgrades for a long time.

Que
02-21-2011, 11:21 PM
I'd really like to try out a Mac, but I can't get over paying 2-3 times the price for equivalent PC hardware. They are running Intel chips, ATI video cards, DDR3 memory, and SATA drives. That sounds just like garden variety PC components to me. I build mine to maximize the price/performance, so I'm typically about 6 months behind the state of the art when built. So when I built my most recent home theater PC, I built by any stretch a monster for about 1700 bucks. Equivocal hardware priced on apple's website today is 4374.00, at nearly a year behind the state of the art.

Count me in as a fan of Windows 7. I was a holdover from XP, and I'm pretty happy with the switch. I'd love to throw OS X on a partition and give it a try. I'm not really willing to make a giant hassle out of it, as it seems to be at this point.

Ya, you really have to look past the hardware... the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. If you are really interested in checking Macs out - do what I did. Buy one and give it a try for 30 days (I believe they still have a 30 day return policy). If you don't like it, take it back. It isn't like they're hurting for cash. LOL. Just buy it from an Apple store and verify the return policy.

Honest to God, the only reason I even got a Mac in the first place is that I was going on a two week business trip and left my PC laptop on the couch - actually I didn't do that, the wife did. I was city hopping so it would have been impossible for me to have it shipped to me with any reliability. So I decided to pick up a Mac because of the return policy and to demonstrate once and for all to all my Mac friends that Macs were useless as business machines. I spent the first three days hating the thing. The next three in quiet acquiescence. From there things just progressed and by the end of the trip I had decided not to return it. 3.5 years later I still have the same machine and have never done anything to it more than replace the battery. It still runs as fast as the day I bought it and quite honestly, I treat the thing like crap.

Anyhow, if you are curious, give one a try.

Que
02-21-2011, 11:32 PM
I didn't know they were so bad, a friend has had his Audi for a good 15 years he is determined to drive it into the ground. Audi was never on my radar when I was in the market for a salloon going on 9 years ago.

Oh they're great cars. Freaking drive like cars are supposed to. It is just that the repair bills are insane. I count myself lucky if the bill is under $1,000. Some sort of moral victory. And they're very complex - lots of stuff to go wrong. The Allroad is a great car but it has an air lift variable suspension. I live in an insanely cold place and it appears that the air shocks don't like -35 degree temps. Each one, well, depending on where you get them replaced is like $800 - $1200. I think I've replaced.... 6 or 7 so far. I refer to the call as the TFA - The ****ing Audi when I talk to the repair guy (four hours away).

ZONA
02-22-2011, 02:38 AM
I got a sansa clip and what's funny is alot of reviews I read said it's not very solid. I got in a roll over accident about a year ago and that was in my truck. After I got out of hospital, went to salvage yard to collect stuff from my truck. They dumped all the glass and other stuff from the wreck in the bed of the truck. I was fishing through that heap and found my clip in there. Pressed the button and it turned on and worked just fine. My sansa clip is awesome !!! 8')

cutthemdown
02-22-2011, 02:46 AM
I got a sansa clip and what's funny is alot of reviews I read said it's not very solid. I got in a roll over accident about a year ago and that was in my truck. After I got out of hospital, went to salvage yard to collect stuff from my truck. They dumped all the glass and other stuff from the wreck in the bed of the truck. I was fishing through that heap and found my clip in there. Pressed the button and it turned on and worked just fine. My sansa clip is awesome !!! 8')

Do bad it can't drive for you.8')

chadta
02-22-2011, 05:41 AM
Why is the other side of the coin so different?

People who rush to defend mac's all the time look just as silly as people who go out of their way to always bash them.

Correct they do, so far the only one who has a real reason for saying anything is Popps, at least he owns stock in apple so he has an interest in seeing people use one product or the other.

In my house i have 5 Pc's and i also have 2 iphones, 2 ipod touches, and am getting an old macbook. My problem with windows based machines is that you have to sort of have a clue to use them, so people like my mother and sister get them, mess them up and then i have to fix them. Ive been telling my mom to get a mac for years, since back when you couldnt get any software for them, just because of ease of use.

I hate alot of the little apple quirks tho, like the no sd card slot on the phones or touches, like having to jailbreak them to get them to run anything that hasnt been approved by mac. Like trying to sync an itouch up with a computer other than then one it was set up on. But i put up with that because they can do everything, and quite well i might add.

I dont really see why it has to be an either or, i prefer my windows machine because 10 years of collecting warez i have everything i will ever need, id hate to have to start all over again, dont really have a problem with mac, what i have a problem with is the apple cult that talks to you like you are retarded if you dont think mac is the greatest thing ever built by man.

alkemical
02-22-2011, 06:42 AM
I liked my probook, but I didn't like it for business. That being said, I liked it. I just preferred using win xp/7...because I can do anything on it (i'm an it/tech guy). It was just easier for me to do my IT tasks.

Anymore the hardware is the same. OSX has a smaller footprint for resources, But Win7 with a qc xeon and 6gb of ram and cuda is rockin.

Requiem
02-22-2011, 10:53 AM
I grew up with these two machines (although my folks had a pc until i was about 4)

http://www.apple-history.com/images/models/se_fdhd.jpg

http://www.apple-history.com/images/models/660_with_mon.jpg

I switched to PC in 96 and have never looked back. That said, the biggest reason for me getting a new machine is home audio. That's really what I want to do with the machine. That's why I'm considering mac.

Nice. My first PC ever was a Tandy 386.

chadta
02-22-2011, 10:58 AM
Nice. My first PC ever was a Tandy 386.

i had a coco3, adam, the computer attachment for the colecovison, and then went hitech with the commodore 64

Rock Chalk
02-22-2011, 01:18 PM
Yeah, I am really wondering how that Windows phone will be

For a first edition its better than iOS or Android (in their first editions).

It, like iOS and Android, has pro's and cons. Facebook integration is both awesome and annoying at the same time, and there doesn't seem to be anyway around it.

I'd still put it as the 3rd best phone OS out there but it's not far behind either Droid or iOS and by its 3rd edition will be competing very well IMO.

Agamemnon
02-22-2011, 01:18 PM
There are three factors that have always decided it for me on this topic:

-Lack of customization.

-Lack of solid game support (theoretically this can be gotten around).

-Much higher prices.


I do like using Macs, but in the end I've decided to let my school fork out all that extra cash. Personally I've never seen much differences between the OS's other than a need to be more hands on with Windows, which I'm fine with.

BroncosSR
02-22-2011, 01:29 PM
I didn't know they were so bad, a friend has had his Audi for a good 15 years he is determined to drive it into the ground. Audi was never on my radar when I was in the market for a salloon going on 9 years ago.

I just bought a 2011 Audi A4 and I absolutely love it. I also got the 7 year warranty as well, so hopefully I should be ok.

Chris
02-22-2011, 02:30 PM
I just bought a 2011 Audi A4 and I absolutely love it. I also got the 7 year warranty as well, so hopefully I should be ok.

You fancy.

Anyways...

I'm now leaning towards picking up a PC laptop for my home recording needs. Hopefully I can get a beast for 17-1800 bucks. Anyone got suggestions? Obviously I will need a crapton of ram.

alkemical
02-22-2011, 02:55 PM
You fancy.

Anyways...

I'm now leaning towards picking up a PC laptop for my home recording needs. Hopefully I can get a beast for 17-1800 bucks. Anyone got suggestions? Obviously I will need a crapton of ram.

I can tell you if you buy an HP, only buy the Elite books (anything that ends in a W for their laptops)...or the Z class workstations and proliant servers. Thin Clients are good too...everything else HP related.... "Meh".

Chris
02-22-2011, 02:58 PM
I read that people had problems with HP laptops for recording.

alkemical
02-22-2011, 03:03 PM
I read that people had problems with HP laptops for recording.

I can't answer to any of that, I can only answer to what I know. I do know that if I were to buy any HP gear, i'd be what I listed above. As far as for music/recording/etc - I can't answer to that.

I do know that PIXAR uses the Z800 workstations and has been voted the best workstation to make videos on. (You seriously can't beat the hardware in it, and you can run linux on it from factory).

You can get two 6 core xeon's, up to 192gb of ram, and a ton of other bad assed options.

jhns
02-22-2011, 03:11 PM
You fancy.

Anyways...

I'm now leaning towards picking up a PC laptop for my home recording needs. Hopefully I can get a beast for 17-1800 bucks. Anyone got suggestions? Obviously I will need a crapton of ram.

The best option is always to build it yourself. If you can't, find a nerdy friend to help. You can build a great laptop for 1700.

GoBroncos DownUnder
02-22-2011, 03:38 PM
I'm now leaning towards picking up a PC laptop for my home recording needs. Hopefully I can get a beast for 17-1800 bucks. Anyone got suggestions? Obviously I will need a crapton of ram.
Personally, I went to OverStock.com, entered what I was looking for and started there. Didn't get my laptop from there, but the comparisons were decent
On second thought, probably better to go to NewEgg.com, they have better stuff!


This was from Nov 2009 - a group called SquareTrade released it, they do POS insurance on laptops/phones/cameras, etc.
http://www.talk-serious.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/failurerates2.jpg

Good luck!:welcome:

broncosteven
02-22-2011, 03:55 PM
You fancy.

Anyways...

I'm now leaning towards picking up a PC laptop for my home recording needs. Hopefully I can get a beast for 17-1800 bucks. Anyone got suggestions? Obviously I will need a crapton of ram.

Check out this article: http://emusician.com/tutorials/emusic_build_personal_studio/

alkemical
02-23-2012, 06:52 AM
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57382995-1/iphone-manufacturing-costs-revealed/

Dediu took two key revelations from the "Nightline" report--that each iPhone takes 24 hours to be built, including 6 to 8 hours of software and component "burn-in" and testing, and that workers on the line make $1.78 an hour.

He then ran that information through some calculations to come up with a new cost range for the labor it takes to make each iPhone, and found the following.

Those costs are likely to range between $12.5 and $30 per unit.
Labor costs are still a small part of the overall cost structure at between 2 percent and 5 percent of sales price.
The high level (141 steps) of human interaction in the process could be automated. However, the fact that it isn't implies that the cost of automation would be higher and the flexibility of the automated process would be lower.

Dediu adds that these manufacturing costs are likely much higher than competing devices--perhaps as much as 300 percent--due to the intensity of the design and quality testing. They're also higher than previous estimates of iPhone assembly costs, which have been pegged as low as $8 per unit.

Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57382995-1/iphone-manufacturing-costs-revealed/#ixzz1nDFpHuZi

Kaylore
02-23-2012, 08:47 AM
Year old bump with the same month. I expect several people will not notice.

StugotsIII
02-23-2012, 09:00 AM
I owned PC laptops for a better part of a decade.


They always break, have security issues and are clunky to use.


I broke down and got a Macbook Pro. It's by far the best machine I've owned and it's not even close.


Apple>>>>>>PC

55CrushEm
02-23-2012, 09:05 AM
I owned PC laptops for a better part of a decade.


They always break, have security issues and are clunky to use.


I broke down and got a Macbook Pro. It's by far the best machine I've owned and it's not even close.


Apple>>>>>>PC

Well, to each their own. I personally have never had any problems with any of the PCs I've owned. I think Apple is overpriced.....and it just seems to me there is this "cult" following with Apple.

Steve Jobs could have crapped in a box.....called it the iPoop.....and people would wait in line to buy it.

Chris
02-23-2012, 09:09 AM
I owned PC laptops for a better part of a decade.


They always break, have security issues and are clunky to use.


I broke down and got a Macbook Pro. It's by far the best machine I've owned and it's not even close.


Apple>>>>>>PC

It really depends on what brand you got. If you got an HP, sure. If you got an Asus or Sony Vaio on the other hand, I think they rank higher than Apple on durability.

http://cdn.macnn.com/news/0911/squaretradenov2009-lg3.jpg

http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/11/17/reliability.study.has.apple.4th.place/

EDIT: Just realised someone already posted this. ERPS. :nono:

Karenin
02-23-2012, 09:19 AM
I owned PC laptops for a better part of a decade.


They always break, have security issues and are clunky to use.


I broke down and got a Macbook Pro. It's by far the best machine I've owned and it's not even close.


Apple>>>>>>PC

Macs and PCs have the exact same hardware inside of them now, the only difference is that when a PC part goes bad, you can replace it yourself (if you're not an idiot), whereas when Mac parts go bad you get to take them to the Mac store and pay a 300% markup on the part + labor + whatever other ridiculous fees they tack on. But hey, they are shiny and look cool and have a big white glowing apple on the back so they're totally worth it!

Kaylore
02-23-2012, 09:22 AM
Yeah I don't get the "your computer always breaks and has tons of viruses thing." That hasn't been my experience.

BroncoBeavis
02-23-2012, 09:27 AM
Macs and PCs have the exact same hardware inside of them now, the only difference is that when a PC part goes bad, you can replace it yourself (if you're not an idiot), whereas when Mac parts go bad you get to take them to the Mac store and pay a 300% markup on the part + labor + whatever other ridiculous fees they tack on. But hey, they are shiny and look cool and have a big white glowing apple on the back so they're totally worth it!

The other thing that happens is that people often compare $1500 Macbooks to $500 PC notebooks and then rave about the perceived quality difference. Yes, Apple [through a Chinese company contract] makes a quality notebook assembly. Although, as was pointed out, the components themselves are no different.

But if you're paying 2-3x as much, that's not a surprise.

BroncoBeavis
02-23-2012, 09:29 AM
Yeah I don't get the "your computer always breaks and has tons of viruses thing." That hasn't been my experience.

You mostly hear that from the "two mouse buttons are too complicated" crowd. :)

55CrushEm
02-23-2012, 09:30 AM
Macs and PCs have the exact same hardware inside of them now, the only difference is that when a PC part goes bad, you can replace it yourself (if you're not an idiot), whereas when Mac parts go bad you get to take them to the Mac store and pay a 300% markup on the part + labor + whatever other ridiculous fees they tack on. But hey, they are shiny and look cool and have a big white glowing apple on the back so they're totally worth it!

:rofl:

Chris
02-23-2012, 09:31 AM
It's also people that are so computer illiterate they will download something from a pop up that is pure spyware. If you're that clueless, get a PC then I'll personally tie your hands behind your back and save you a grand.

StugotsIII
02-23-2012, 09:44 AM
I love when people get upset over Apples popularity and success.


Based on Consumerreports.com Apple CPU's are rated higher…

55CrushEm
02-23-2012, 09:57 AM
I love when people get upset over Apples popularity and success.


Based on Consumerreports.com Apple CPU's are rated higher…

I love it when people make up blanket claims about PCs, just because they live with perpetual iBoners.

BroncoBeavis
02-23-2012, 10:12 AM
I love when people get upset over Apples popularity and success.


Based on Consumerreports.com Apple CPU's are rated higher…

Great, so people who still rely on a subscription magazine for product opinions love Apple computers. About what I'd expect. :)

Jetmeck
02-23-2012, 10:18 AM
Apple's i this & i that is wasted one me. I see too much propriety BS going on. I do not need i tunes to download a song thank you anyway.

All the bad press about China needs to be addressed. They could sell their USA made products and still make money.

Anybody hear the day after Whitney Houston died itunes raised all her songs from .99 to 1.29 each. Thats all I need to know about Apple. Along with former wing nut hippie creator who was deathly ill and wouldn't see a doctor and like to bitch about Obama's policies while he made a ton of money making products overseas that he sells here. A real American.......................

jhns
02-23-2012, 10:20 AM
PC is better for those that know what they are doing. Apple is better for those that like to spend more money on inferior products.

This. Although Apple is also better for graphic designers. It can be good for those that refuse to learn how to work a computer as well. Other than that, you are wasting money when buying Apple computers.

BroncoBeavis
02-23-2012, 10:41 AM
This. Although Apple is also better for graphic designers. It can be good for those that refuse to learn how to work a computer as well. Other than that, you are wasting money when buying Apple computers.

Did you just This your own comment? This could open a whole new era in OM dialog.

The possibilities are endless. :)

Chris
02-23-2012, 10:47 AM
Pancakes are awesome.

Chris
02-23-2012, 10:48 AM
Pancakes are awesome.

This.

BroncoBeavis
02-23-2012, 10:52 AM
This.

^This

BroncoBeavis
02-23-2012, 10:53 AM
^This

^This

Chris
02-23-2012, 11:19 AM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pv3IFbr66cI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Don Flamenco
02-23-2012, 11:43 AM
Pancakes are awesome.

**** Pancakes!
http://troll.me/images/wafflebot/wafflebot-loves-you-unless-you-prefer-pancakes.jpg

jhns
02-23-2012, 12:06 PM
Did you just This your own comment? This could open a whole new era in OM dialog.

The possibilities are endless. :)

That comment is from the old me. The new me This'ed the post. So the answer to your question is yes.

DomCasual
02-23-2012, 12:13 PM
I love when people get upset over Apples popularity and success.


Based on Consumerreports.com Apple CPU's are rated higher…

I love Consumer Reports.

I bought a fridge about five years ago. I signed up for a one-day subscription (I don't think they even offer those anymore) for Consumer Reports, to look at their ratings.

I now get spammed at least twice a week by those SOBs. I have opted out dozens of times, and sent them scathing emails.

They're supposedly a consumer advocate! And they spam?

Come on. They suck.

Retire #30!!!
02-23-2012, 12:30 PM
I've never understood the hatred towards apple products, I'm an IT professional work on PC's at work, and have a Mac as my personal computer. Been using macs from the Apple II days. Mac's are by far a better solution for your normal home use of computers, we're not talking techy people we are talking people who do web, pictures, music, etc... You give up a bit of freedom to get this integration but it's a good trade off IMO. All I know is that I'm on my third machine at work in the time I've been on my 2008 MBP. There are different products for everyone, some people like to pay a premium for a machine that looks better and has less problems (and a better OS IMO) then your every day Dell. I just find it funny that the only people who speak poorly about Apple products are people who don't use them.

Heyneck
02-23-2012, 12:42 PM
This. Although Apple is also better for graphic designers. It can be good for those that refuse to learn how to work a computer as well. Other than that, you are wasting money when buying Apple computers.

Agree...I am a graphic designer and use my powerbook only to run my Adobe suite, other than that I use my other gateway laptop for everything else.

Jetmeck
02-23-2012, 12:49 PM
Where do you get the software for that Mac ? online
Sure isn't any locally. no thanks

jhns
02-23-2012, 12:50 PM
I've never understood the hatred towards apple products, I'm an IT professional work on PC's at work, and have a Mac as my personal computer. Been using macs from the Apple II days. Mac's are by far a better solution for your normal home use of computers, we're not talking techy people we are talking people who do web, pictures, music, etc... You give up a bit of freedom to get this integration but it's a good trade off IMO. All I know is that I'm on my third machine at work in the time I've been on my 2008 MBP. There are different products for everyone, some people like to pay a premium for a machine that looks better and has less problems (and a better OS IMO) then your every day Dell. I just find it funny that the only people who speak poorly about Apple products are people who don't use them.

Why is that funny? If someone doesn't like red meat, you probably won't see them eating it. If they don't like music, they probably don't have a stereo. Why would people use something that they don't like?

You are paying extra for them to limit what you can do. Build your own PC, and you will never go back to Macs, or Dells. Dell is just as bad with the cheap crap they sell. It isn't like it is hard to build your own PC. There are websites that will tell you what to buy. Everything only plugs into the spot it goes. You get twice as much for half the price. You can upgrade easily and do anything you want with it. My case also looks cooler than any Mac I have seen.

Heyneck
02-23-2012, 12:59 PM
Where do you get the software for that Mac ? online
Sure isn't any locally. no thanks

In my case...since I live in Colombia I have easy access to all type of pirated programs on the market. But once I did my internship in New York and later started doing outsource work, I went fully legal. So yeah...I have been tied to online stores.

BroncoBeavis
02-23-2012, 01:26 PM
I've never understood the hatred towards apple products, I'm an IT professional work on PC's at work, and have a Mac as my personal computer. Been using macs from the Apple II days. Mac's are by far a better solution for your normal home use of computers, we're not talking techy people we are talking people who do web, pictures, music, etc... You give up a bit of freedom to get this integration but it's a good trade off IMO. All I know is that I'm on my third machine at work in the time I've been on my 2008 MBP. There are different products for everyone, some people like to pay a premium for a machine that looks better and has less problems (and a better OS IMO) then your every day Dell. I just find it funny that the only people who speak poorly about Apple products are people who don't use them.

I've used Mac's quite a bit, although not much in the last 8 years or so. Not usually by choice. But I basically oppose Apple's closed model in general. It was crap that they forced IPod/IPhone users to use ITunes and vice versa (although Amazon broke through that partially by disregarding DRM on music)

Then there's the refusal to support near-universal standards like Apple's war on Flash, while maintaining a walled software garden to make sure nobody can work around their restrictions.

Apple's business practices are far more anti-competitive than Microsoft ever dreamed of being. Luckily they've never really had the market share to keep their competitors from flogging them with their own limitations.

Just like in the original Mac days when Apple pissed away a technological advantage in trying to force everyone to do it their way, they've already started down that road with Iphone, which will someday be relegated to 10-20% market share while more open platforms like Android eat their lunch.

alkemical
02-23-2012, 01:27 PM
I'm thinking about getting an HTC HD7S

Chris
02-23-2012, 02:31 PM
I've never understood the hatred towards apple products, I'm an IT professional work on PC's at work, and have a Mac as my personal computer. Been using macs from the Apple II days. Mac's are by far a better solution for your normal home use of computers, we're not talking techy people we are talking people who do web, pictures, music, etc... You give up a bit of freedom to get this integration but it's a good trade off IMO. All I know is that I'm on my third machine at work in the time I've been on my 2008 MBP. There are different products for everyone, some people like to pay a premium for a machine that looks better and has less problems (and a better OS IMO) then your every day Dell. I just find it funny that the only people who speak poorly about Apple products are people who don't use them.

I own a MBP.

StugotsIII
02-23-2012, 05:07 PM
I love Consumer Reports.

I bought a fridge about five years ago. I signed up for a one-day subscription (I don't think they even offer those anymore) for Consumer Reports, to look at their ratings.

I now get spammed at least twice a week by those SOBs. I have opted out dozens of times, and sent them scathing emails.

They're supposedly a consumer advocate! And they spam?

Come on. They suck.

Then try the review on cnet.com

They HATE Apple products but the are always rated the highest...

Retire #30!!!
02-23-2012, 05:34 PM
Why is that funny? If someone doesn't like red meat, you probably won't see them eating it. If they don't like music, they probably don't have a stereo. Why would people use something that they don't like?

You are paying extra for them to limit what you can do. Build your own PC, and you will never go back to Macs, or Dells. Dell is just as bad with the cheap crap they sell. It isn't like it is hard to build your own PC. There are websites that will tell you what to buy. Everything only plugs into the spot it goes. You get twice as much for half the price. You can upgrade easily and do anything you want with it. My case also looks cooler than any Mac I have seen.

How do you know you don't like it if you've never used one? Again most people who have Macs are happy with them. Then there are some people who like to voice their opinion that they are crap and wasting money. I guess this can be applied to ANYTHING that anybody buys. Do I think it's necessary to buy an authentic Broncos jersey instead of a $80 one? No, but some people like to do it and feel that it's worth it. Are Macs overpriced? Yes Do I care? No I like the experience and the integration that the Apple platform gives me.

Tim Tebow uses an Iphone just saying:thumbs: