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MABroncoFan
02-19-2011, 10:28 AM
rotoworld.com

The National Football Post's Wes Bunting is hearing that the Broncos are leaning toward Clemson DE Da'Quan Bowers with the No. 2 overall pick.

Bowers makes some sense for a Broncos defense transitioning to a 4-3, yet there's still a decent chance the Panthers take him first overall. If that's the case, Bunting believes Auburn DT Nick Fairley would be Denver's choice in the No. 2 slot. If Denver does draft Bowers, it could be a sign that the new front office isn't sold on either Elvis Dumervil or Robert Ayers. Related: Broncos

ghostofjosh
02-19-2011, 10:32 AM
thats dumb....you can never have enough pass rushers.....dont beleieve in elvis after that big contract? yawn..

oubronco
02-19-2011, 10:42 AM
Don't believe anything you hear before the draft

BlaK-Argentina
02-19-2011, 10:48 AM
I'd be fine with either of those two.

Chris
02-19-2011, 11:10 AM
I'd prefer Fairley... just because I believe Ayers has big upside in his natural position... but either one would be a great pick.

schaaf
02-19-2011, 11:14 AM
I think Ayers has the potential to be a VERY good 4-3 DE. He has always been good at stopping the run and with Elvis blitzing from the other side he will be able to get anywhere from 5-10 sacks per season on average ( just guessing)

Chris
02-19-2011, 11:16 AM
We shall call him Big Nasty

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/U9ye6OoWA4g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

3 potentially top DEs or ask Ayers to pack on 20 pounds and move him to DT?

Hercules Rockefeller
02-19-2011, 11:21 AM
Why don't you link to NFP's story and not Rotoworld so we don't get the spin of a site that reports nothing on its own?

Popps
02-19-2011, 11:26 AM
Awesome. Bring him in.

The Joker
02-19-2011, 11:32 AM
God, can you imagine it? Quality depth and talent at the DE position... how long has it been?

Would love the pick, and there'd be more than enough PT for Ayers and Doom even if we bring him in so that's not an issue at all.

Bigdawg26
02-19-2011, 11:47 AM
Hell nah! Please no one year wonders!

OBF1
02-19-2011, 11:54 AM
Hell nah! Please no one year wonders!

Top high school recruit in the country 3 years ago... Try again :thumbsup:

BMarsh615
02-19-2011, 11:59 AM
Hell nah! Please no one year wonders!

So no Bowers or Fairley huh?

NFLBRONCO
02-19-2011, 12:02 PM
I think Denver's #1 option is to move down. If they can't I expect pick to be Bowers honestly.

Cito Pelon
02-19-2011, 12:09 PM
I think Ayers has the potential to be a VERY good 4-3 DE. He has always been good at stopping the run and with Elvis blitzing from the other side he will be able to get anywhere from 5-10 sacks per season on average ( just guessing)

Man, that's a big guess. Ayers hasn't shown any passrush ability so far, and he's had plenty of opportunity. I'm very disappointed with him so far, but maybe he can improve.

I think moving back to a 4-3 says they're gonna stick with Elvis and Ayers at DE and hope for the best, and therefore eliminating picking a DE (Bowers) at #2.

Ayers is ok at DE, there's been plenty of 1st-rounders like him over the years that didn't quite get to great status but were solid all-around players. Just gonna have to wait and see.

Wes Mantooth
02-19-2011, 12:11 PM
Fox and Elway are tearing this team apart.

schaaf
02-19-2011, 12:14 PM
Man, that's a big guess. Ayers hasn't shown any passrush ability so far, and he's had plenty of opportunity. I'm very disappointed with him so far, but maybe he can improve.

I think moving back to a 4-3 says they're gonna stick with Elvis and Ayers at DE and hope for the best, and therefore eliminating picking a DE (Bowers) at #2.

Ayers is ok at DE, there's been plenty of 1st-rounders like him over the years that didn't quite get to great status but were solid all-around players. Just gonna have to wait and see.

It's not that big of a guess. When you have one very good passrusher the quarterback is forced to move around the pocket a lot more and the one good passrusher gives a lot of sacks to other Tackles and Ends because of the pressure on the quarterback. Ayers has proven he is very good at stopping the run. I Think he can be a pretty good DE.

~Crash~
02-19-2011, 12:16 PM
Ankle tacklers in the NFL are missed tackles!

~Crash~
02-19-2011, 12:16 PM
Ayer might be our MLB'er

schaaf
02-19-2011, 12:18 PM
Ayer might be our MLB'er

There has been no word to this besides speculation on the Mane.

Highly Doubtful IMO

DivineBronco
02-19-2011, 12:41 PM
thats dumb....you can never have enough pass rushers.....dont beleieve in elvis after that big contract? yawn..

no it is don't believe in Elvis after tearing a vital muscle that relates directly to how he plays the position

epicSocialism4tw
02-19-2011, 12:41 PM
God, can you imagine it? Quality depth and talent at the DE position... how long has it been?

Would love the pick, and there'd be more than enough PT for Ayers and Doom even if we bring him in so that's not an issue at all.

No doubt.

This dude Bowers is a monster. Watch him just chuck people aside. He has power, quickness, and a toolbox of some spins and chucks to start with in the NFL. He's massive, strong, rushes the QB with everything he has, and has by all accounts a great disposition and attitude. To me, he looks like the best player in the draft.

I wouldnt be surprised at all if he was taken #1 overall.

cutthemdown
02-19-2011, 01:00 PM
We shall call him Big Nasty

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/U9ye6OoWA4g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

3 potentially top DEs or ask Ayers to pack on 20 pounds and move him to DT?

Seriously you want him to go from OLB to DT. Just think about that for a bit. He player, lose lbs, be an OLB, nope we changed our mind, gain even more lbs then you ever had before and be a DT. It's just a lame idea.

oubronco
02-19-2011, 01:14 PM
The likes of North Texas, NC State, and Georgia Tech are the highlight reel.......seriously

Chris
02-19-2011, 01:25 PM
Seriously you want him to go from OLB to DT. Just think about that for a bit. He player, lose lbs, be an OLB, nope we changed our mind, gain even more lbs then you ever had before and be a DT. It's just a lame idea.

Just an idea. Plus this is supposedly our last year of overhaul. I'm not saying it's the best idea either.

oubronco
02-19-2011, 01:27 PM
Both Mike Mayock and Warren Sapp of NFL Network believe Alabama DT Marcell Dareus is a better prospect than Auburn DT Nick Fairley.

Their sentiments aren't the consensus, but their logic isn't flawed. While Fairley has the statistical edge, Dareus is the more consistent player. Said Mayock, "Bottom line, Fairley may have a little bit more upside, but I think Dareus is the safer pick." Sapp will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer as the greatest pass-rushing defensive tackle of all time, so his opinion is perhaps even more notable than Mayock's.
Related: Nick Fairley (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6492/nick-fairley)

Source: ProFootballTalk on NBCSports.com (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/18/warren-sapp-marcell-dareus-is-better-than-nick-fairley/)
Feb 19, 9:12 AM

montrose
02-19-2011, 02:08 PM
Wes has really good contacts so I can very much see this but there's a lot of time between now and April - also, I have this weird feeling Carolina takes him #1.

If he is picked, keep in mind Elvis is coming off major surgery and was never a run stuffer anyway so a 4-3 DE rotation of Bowers, Ayers, Doom and Hunter could be decent for year 1 under Fox.

Chris
02-19-2011, 02:18 PM
Wes has really good contacts so I can very much see this but there's a lot of time between now and April - also, I have this weird feeling Carolina takes him #1.

If he is picked, keep in mind Elvis is coming off major surgery and was never a run stuffer anyway so a 4-3 DE rotation of Bowers, Ayers, Doom and Hunter could be decent for year 1 under Fox.

Do you think we pick up someone at DT in FA? Williams can't play 3 downs.

schaaf
02-19-2011, 02:20 PM
We do have Bannan and Thomas who I think will do a lot better than people think in a 4-3

BroncoBuff
02-19-2011, 02:59 PM
thats dumb....you can never have enough pass rushers.

Preachin' to the choir here, brother.

But where does Elvis fit in a 4-3?

epicSocialism4tw
02-19-2011, 03:45 PM
Preachin' to the choir here, brother.

But where does Elvis fit in a 4-3?

The same place he did before McD: DE.

HAT
02-19-2011, 03:49 PM
If he is picked, keep in mind Elvis is coming off major surgery and was never a run stuffer anyway so a 4-3 DE rotation of Bowers, Ayers, Doom and Hunter could be decent for year 1 under Fox.

And you're okay with 'decent' from the #2 pick?

Cito Pelon
02-19-2011, 03:51 PM
It's not that big of a guess. When you have one very good passrusher the quarterback is forced to move around the pocket a lot more and the one good passrusher gives a lot of sacks to other Tackles and Ends because of the pressure on the quarterback. Ayers has proven he is very good at stopping the run. I Think he can be a pretty good DE.

Can't passrush worth a damn.

BroncoBuff
02-19-2011, 04:09 PM
Can't passrush worth a damn.

Pass-rushing skills, you either have them or you don't, and I think it shows in college.

Elvis has defied expectations and predictions by continuing the prowess he showed at Louisville, I think he led the nation in sacks but fell to the 5th round.

Otoh, guys like D.J. Williams, Aaron Curry up here, and sad to say Robert Ayers are just square pegs being pounded into round holes. Sack expectations were sky-high for all three of these 1st-rounders, but why? Curry and Ayers each had a grand total of just 6 sacks in their college careers, and D.J. just 10. Now we're all disappointed. Hello?

serious hops
02-19-2011, 04:43 PM
Fairley, please. Really good interior rushers are even tougher to find than edge rushers. Fairley has the quickness to be very disruptive against the run as well, and the frame to develop into a stout player at the point of attack with a few years of NFL weight training and coaching. His nasty attitude and potential to impact all phases of the game make him the most likely prospect to be a culture-changer, and that's what we should be looking for from a number two overall pick as far as I'm concerned. Yes, even if he is a bit riskier as well.

Wes Mantooth
02-19-2011, 05:25 PM
btw, what happens if we don't have a season next year, do we get to have the #2 again next year?

schaaf
02-19-2011, 05:41 PM
Can't passrush worth a damn.

Ayers was our best pass rusher before he broke his foot. It seemed like he rushed back and wasn't himself the second half of the season.

CEH
02-19-2011, 05:54 PM
btw, what happens if we don't have a season next year, do we get to have the #2 again next year?

I think you would have a weighted lottery like the NBA but for all teams

jutang
02-19-2011, 07:01 PM
Our D-line has been such a crap hole this last half decade I'd be happy with either Bowers or Fairley.

I'm still holding out hope for Ayers. Prior to his foot injury, he was holding his own on rush situations and occasionally had some push in pass situations. Problems is there was no pressure coming from the center or the backside so QBs could avoid it way too easily. If he could do what Courtney Brown did here minus the freak injuries, he'll be a solid contributor.

Play2win
02-19-2011, 07:47 PM
My fav is still Dareus. I think he would help our Pass-Rush the most. A matter of fact, I think he would help our D the most against both the run and the pass. But what do I know-- I have been way too busy with other things to hardly even check out the you-tubes, let alone who know what else you guys are all checking out...

BroncoMan4ever
02-19-2011, 07:49 PM
thats dumb....you can never have enough pass rushers.....dont beleieve in elvis after that big contract? yawn..

agreed. look at the Giants a few years ago, took down an undefeated team on the verge of history because they had an abundance of elite pass rushers.

a great pass rush will make a quite possibly very weak secondary look alright.

Boss Man
02-19-2011, 11:11 PM
Top high school recruit in the country 3 years ago... Try again :thumbsup:

while i like bowers...he was indeed a 1 year wonder, the man was invisible his first 3 years, and is coming out as a junior, he has a TON of potential, that being said he also has a lot question marks too.

i wont be dissapointed if we select fairley or bowers, but sign me up as a fan of the interior push, which i beleive a dominant interior push disrupts an offense more than anything

epicSocialism4tw
02-19-2011, 11:16 PM
while i like bowers...he was indeed a 1 year wonder, the man was invisible his first 3 years, and is coming out as a junior, he has a TON of potential, that being said he also has a lot question marks too.

i wont be dissapointed if we select fairley or bowers, but sign me up as a fan of the interior push, which i beleive a dominant interior push disrupts an offense more than anything

I dont know that its relevant to say that a player was invisible for his "first 3 years" and is a junior. If he was visible as a junior, then he was visible in his third year. Also, the junior year is typically when a player starts to bloom. The guys like Sam Bradford, Adrian Peterson, and Tim Tebow who shine througout their collegiate careers are unique.

KipCorrington25
02-19-2011, 11:53 PM
I'd prefer Fairley... just because I believe Ayers has big upside in his natural position... but either one would be a great pick.

:D:D:D:D How did Richard Pryor come back from the grave and get registered on here? Seriously, Richard this is your best work since Live On the Sunset Strip!

Wes Mantooth
02-19-2011, 11:56 PM
I think you would have a weighted lottery like the NBA but for all teams

So wouldn't we still be #2 in the lottery?

footstepsfrom#27
02-20-2011, 12:01 AM
Both Mike Mayock and Warren Sapp of NFL Network believe Alabama DT Marcell Dareus is a better prospect than Auburn DT Nick Fairley.

Their sentiments aren't the consensus, but their logic isn't flawed. While Fairley has the statistical edge, Dareus is the more consistent player. Said Mayock, "Bottom line, Fairley may have a little bit more upside, but I think Dareus is the safer pick." Sapp will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer as the greatest pass-rushing defensive tackle of all time, so his opinion is perhaps even more notable than Mayock's.
John Randle has Sapp beat by 40 sacks...just sayin'.

As to Fairley vs. Dareus, I agree with those guys that Dareus is the safer pick...possibly the better player, probably a more stable guy.

Another DE at #2...that's alot of resources spent on just one position in such a short period of time, especially in a draft where 7-9 DE's may go in the first round, which I think would set a record. I wouldn't hate the pick, but I'd much rather have Peterson, then come back with going after the D-line guys by either trading back up into the first or using 2nd round picks on them. There may be DE's in this draft who pan out better than Bowers. I do not think any DB in this draft can touch what Peterson brings to the table, both from a physical perspective and in terms of versitility and playmaking ability as a return guy also.

epicSocialism4tw
02-20-2011, 12:25 AM
John Randle has Sapp beat by 40 sacks...just sayin'.

As to Fairley vs. Dareus, I agree with those guys that Dareus is the safer pick...possibly the better player, probably a more stable guy.

Another DE at #2...that's alot of resources spent on just one position in such a short period of time, especially in a draft where 7-9 DE's may go in the first round, which I think would set a record. I wouldn't hate the pick, but I'd much rather have Peterson, then come back with going after the D-line guys by either trading back up into the first or using 2nd round picks on them. There may be DE's in this draft who pan out better than Bowers. I do not think any DB in this draft can touch what Peterson brings to the table, both from a physical perspective and in terms of versitility and playmaking ability as a return guy also.

If Champ returns, Peterson just doesnt fill a need in the same way that Dareus, Fairley, or Bowers does.

footstepsfrom#27
02-20-2011, 12:29 AM
while i like bowers...he was indeed a 1 year wonder, the man was invisible his first 3 years, and is coming out as a junior, he has a TON of potential, that being said he also has a lot question marks too.
I think you meant to say he was invisible for the first two years, since he only spent three years total at Clemson. However that's neither fair or true either. As a sophmore he had 10 1/2 TFL and 3 sacks to go along with 46 tackles, 7 QB hurries and a blocked kick. As a freshman he had 37 tackles and 8 TFL's, and most freshmen barely see the field at all so I think the "one year wonder" thing is way off base. Alot of defensive linemen don't bloom till their junior year. People need to stop listening to media pundits and check things out independently. Bowers is a great player but unless we trade either Elvis (unlikely with that new contract and health questions) or Ayers, who we probably won't get value for since he's proven little so far...our other options seem stronger.

footstepsfrom#27
02-20-2011, 12:40 AM
If Champ returns, Peterson just doesnt fill a need in the same way that Dareus, Fairley, or Bowers does.
By the time this team is ready to compete, Champ will either be a safety, on another team, or he'll be largely well past his prime. Peterson AND Champ on opposite sides of the field NOW however, would give us the best press coverage corners in the NFL. On top of that, Peterson is a threat any time he touches the ball in the return game. At 222 pounds and with a history of gettting bigger each year, this guy could play CB at 230 pounds. That's linebacker size. I think he's not only a perfect fit, he's the most talented player in the draft. You can't lose by choosing talent over position most of the time. On top of that, with all the other top tier talent available in the D-line for this draft, there's no need to see the #2 pick as being critical towards drafting D-line help. With the extra 2nd rounder alone we have the ammo to move up for any player we'd like to have in the 2nd half of the first round. If we trade Kyle Orton we're likely to see another 2nd coming our way. We could actually draft three potential starting defensive linemen in this draft AND still take Peterson 2nd overall.

epicSocialism4tw
02-20-2011, 12:41 AM
I think you meant to say he was invisible for the first two years, since he only spent three years total at Clemson. However that's neither fair or true either. As a sophmore he had 10 1/2 TFL and 3 sacks to go along with 46 tackles, 7 QB hurries and a blocked kick. As a freshman he had 37 tackles and 8 TFL's, and most freshmen barely see the field at all so I think the "one year wonder" thing is way off base. Alot of defensive linemen don't bloom till their junior year. People need to stop listening to media pundits and check things out independently. Bowers is a great player but unless we trade either Elvis (unlikely with that new contract and health questions) or Ayers, who we probably won't get value for since he's proven little so far...our other options seem stronger.

I would rather see Denver draft a DT, but adding a monster DE to the rotation would be very good. I think that it would make more of an impact on the defense than drafting a DB would.

epicSocialism4tw
02-20-2011, 12:44 AM
By the time this team is ready to compete, Champ will either be a safety, on another team, or he'll be largely well past his prime. Peterson AND Champ on opposite sides of the field NOW however, would give us the best press coverage corners in the NFL. On top of that, Peterson is a threat any time he touches the ball in the return game. At 222 pounds and with a history of gettting bigger each year, this guy could play CB at 230 pounds. That's linebacker size. I think he's not only a perfect fit, he's the most talented player in the draft. You can't lose by choosing talent over position most of the time. On top of that, with all the other top tier talent available in the D-line for this draft, there's no need to see the #2 pick as being critical towards drafting D-line help. With the extra 2nd rounder alone we have the ammo to move up for any player we'd like to have in the 2nd half of the first round. If we trade Kyle Orton we're likely to see another 2nd coming our way. We could actually draft three potential starting defensive linemen in this draft AND still take Peterson 2nd overall.

I just dont think that Peterson is the "most talented" player in the draft. I think that Bowers is that. By the time the draft comes around, I'm pretty sure that, barring injury setbacks, Bowers could end up being the #1 pick.

That would be good for us, because Fairley fits a need better.

This pick should be a DL pick. It doesnt matter that the depth is good for DL. Thats all the more excuse to take Bowers, Fairley, or Dareus where Denvers at...and then take another DL player with Denvers first pick in round 2. There is a serious need for front 7 players in Denver.

footstepsfrom#27
02-20-2011, 01:01 AM
I would rather see Denver draft a DT, but adding a monster DE to the rotation would be very good. I think that it would make more of an impact on the defense than drafting a DB would.
Then what do you do with Elvis and Ayers? If either one had the ability to play the strong side Bowers would make more sense but as it stands now, what probably happens if we draft him, is that he winds up causing either Elvis or Ayers to move on, maybe both. Elvis can't play LB in the 4-3 or so we've been told. Ayers doesn't look big enough to play the left DE spot at 275 and Bowers, who is listed at 287 I think, might wind up taking that spot instead of the RDE spot.

I like Peterson because he's a better player than any D-linemen in this draft, he fills two roles not one, and he's something else this team sorely needs, a big, physical nasty hitter in the secondary who makes opposing receivers hear footsteps. We have small corners who are not equipped to handle the bigger receivers that are becoming more and more prominent. Look at San Diego...who do we have that can cover those guys? Champ, even if he stays, has maybe a couple years left where he's the player he is now. Don't forget that a pass rush is also helped out when you have two guys who can play press coverage on the outside. In that respect, Peterson impacts the team in three ways, special teams, coverage corner and as an intimidating presence with the size to dominate opposing team's playmaking pass catchers. Add all this up AND the fact that we can still draft very talented D-line guys in the 2nd round and I see him as the logical choice.

epicSocialism4tw
02-20-2011, 01:11 AM
Then what do you do with Elvis and Ayers? If either one had the ability to play the strong side Bowers would make more sense but as it stands now, what probably happens if we draft him, is that he winds up causing either Elvis or Ayers to move on, maybe both. Elvis can't play LB in the 4-3 or so we've been told. Ayers doesn't look big enough to play the left DE spot at 275 and Bowers, who is listed at 287 I think, might wind up taking that spot instead of the RDE spot.

I like Peterson because he's a better player than any D-linemen in this draft, he fills two roles not one, and he's something else this team sorely needs, a big, physical nasty hitter in the secondary who makes opposing receivers hear footsteps. We have small corners who are not equipped to handle the bigger receivers that are becoming more and more prominent. Look at San Diego...who do we have that can cover those guys? Champ, even if he stays, has maybe a couple years left where he's the player he is now. Don't forget that a pass rush is also helped out when you have two guys who can play press coverage on the outside. In that respect, Peterson impacts the team in three ways, special teams, coverage corner and as an intimidating presence with the size to dominate opposing team's playmaking pass catchers. Add all this up AND the fact that we can still draft very talented D-line guys in the 2nd round and I see him as the logical choice.

We have been down the "corners, but no pass rush" path, and it didnt work for what...10 years?

There will be plenty of snaps for Doom, Ayers, and another DE. Plenty. Guys dont play every down.

We just dont need a CB like we do a DE.

Also, I dont think that Peterson is any better a prospect than Bowers or Fairley. Like I said...I could see Bowers going #1. Dude's a freak with a high motor and a great attitude.

footstepsfrom#27
02-20-2011, 01:23 AM
I just dont think that Peterson is the "most talented" player in the draft. I think that Bowers is that.
Scouts say Peterson is the best DB to come out in ten years. He's an unpresedented physical specimen at his position. There's simply never been an NFL corner with his size, let alone in combination with the speed and return ability he has. He's 30 pounds bigger than Champ is right now, and he may get even bigger. Add in the fact that he may very well run a sub 4.3 forty at the combine and he's way off the scale. Ane we're not even talking about the return ability he has. I just think passing on elilte talent for a position choice is a bad move.
By the time the draft comes around, I'm pretty sure that, barring injury setbacks, Bowers could end up being the #1 pick.
That depends on what Carolina is offered for their pick, or in fact if they think they might like a QB now instead of hoping they finish at the bottom of the league again next year with a shot at Luck. Have you noticed that Cam Newton is rapidly moving up? Kiper now has him as the #3 rated player on the board, and if he has a big combine he might climb higher. If Newton is perceived as a true franchise QB, he might provoke a team to trade the farm for him.

As for Bowers...can you honestly say there's a major gap between him and the next best DE in the draft? There are DE's in this particular draft that might turn out just as good or even better that might not go till the 2nd round. North Carolina's Robert Quinn is considered by alot of scouts to have talent on the same level as Bowers. No corner in the draft is anywhere close to Peterson, and that's not even considering the special teams impact. Add that in and he's head and shoulders the most talented guy in the draft IMO.
That would be good for us, because Fairley fits a need better.
Fairley may also be a huge bust. His talent is not in dispute, but he comes with some caution lights also.
This pick should be a DL pick. It doesnt matter that the depth is good for DL. Thats all the more excuse to take Bowers, Fairley, or Dareus where Denvers at...and then take another DL player with Denvers first pick in round 2. There is a serious need for front 7 players in Denver.
I understand this thinking, and if we were talking about any other player in this draft other than Peterson, I'd be on board with just using this draft to re-stock the defensive line. But if you have the chance to take a true game changer AND still get 2 or 3 very talented potential starters in round 2 and 3 or move up in round one for a guy like Paea or Jordan, I'll take the potential All Pro corner and still fill out the D-line nicely.

footstepsfrom#27
02-20-2011, 01:29 AM
We have been down the "corners, but no pass rush" path, and it didnt work for what...10 years?
We've never had two elite corners at one time, so no we've not been down that road yet.
There will be plenty of snaps for Doom, Ayers, and another DE. Plenty. Guys dont play every down.
For what these guys are being paid, yes...they need to play every down. You can't take a guy #2 overall and have him be a rotational player any more than you can have a guy making Elvis's money a situational pass rusher.
We just dont need a CB like we do a DE.
We may need two. There's no guarantee Champ stays. Even if he does, we have declining talent on the other side and no depth to speak of. This in an era when teams are now routinely using 3 or 4 receivers looking for an edge against opponents secondaries. If Champ leaves, it's going to be a shooting gallery back there.
Also, I dont think that Peterson is any better a prospect than Bowers or Fairley. Like I said...I could see Bowers going #1. Dude's a freak with a high motor and a great attitude.
We'll have to disagree on this. Fairley and Bowers will be good players, but I think Peterson has HOF potential.

cutthemdown
02-20-2011, 01:43 AM
Sapp and some others have said Fairly doesn't have a lot of technique with his hands. Peterson may be more polished and have less bust potential.

footstepsfrom#27
02-20-2011, 02:34 AM
Sapp and some others have said Fairly doesn't have a lot of technique with his hands. Peterson may be more polished and have less bust potential.
Imagine for a minute if Peterson were a defensive tackle. Mentally add 15% to the size of the average DT, say already around 320 pounds...that would put him at almost 370 pounds. Now mix in a 40 time among the fastest for DT's, say about 4.8. How high would a guy who is 370 pounds and runs 4.8 forty go? Now figure this guy is also a special teams demon who probably blocks 2 or 3 kicks every season and runs them back for TD's. How high would a guy like this go? Numero uno without doubt. Well the only reason Peterson wouldn't be the top pick with corresponding talent at his position, is because people erroneously think corners are no longer important like they once were, a spurious argument IMO.

cutthemdown
02-20-2011, 02:42 AM
Imagine for a minute if Peterson were a defensive tackle. Mentally add 15% to the size of the average DT, say already around 320 pounds...that would put him at almost 370 pounds. Now mix in a 40 time among the fastest for DT's, say about 4.8. How high would a guy who is 370 pounds and runs 4.8 forty go? Now figure this guy is also a special teams demon who probably blocks 2 or 3 kicks every season and runs them back for TD's. How high would a guy like this go? Numero uno without doubt. Well the only reason Peterson wouldn't be the top pick with corresponding talent at his position, is because people erroneously think corners are no longer important like they once were, a spurious argument IMO.

Al Davis when I was a kid in an interview said he thought pure return skills, coupled with excelling at a position, is one of the surest indicators of football talent. Peterson does seem like a natural football player.

Keep champ, put Peterson on other side. Having 2 good corners really helps the Jets.

KevinJames
02-20-2011, 04:45 AM
Bowers is so overrated.

Rohirrim
02-20-2011, 09:22 AM
Bowers looks pretty damned good in that orange jersey. Works for me.

Play2win
02-20-2011, 09:51 AM
Every game I have seen Bowers or Peterson in, they have just disappeared. In fact, I had to make it a point to find out even which player they were.

Every game I have watch Dareus in, there was no doubt which player he was, and he basically demanded attention.

albeit, this is from a small sample size, but from what I could tell, give me Dareus every day and twice on Sundays.

mattob14
02-20-2011, 11:15 AM
Then what do you do with Elvis and Ayers? If either one had the ability to play the strong side Bowers would make more sense but as it stands now, what probably happens if we draft him, is that he winds up causing either Elvis or Ayers to move on, maybe both. Elvis can't play LB in the 4-3 or so we've been told. Ayers doesn't look big enough to play the left DE spot at 275 and Bowers, who is listed at 287 I think, might wind up taking that spot instead of the RDE spot.

I like Peterson because he's a better player than any D-linemen in this draft, he fills two roles not one, and he's something else this team sorely needs, a big, physical nasty hitter in the secondary who makes opposing receivers hear footsteps. We have small corners who are not equipped to handle the bigger receivers that are becoming more and more prominent. Look at San Diego...who do we have that can cover those guys? Champ, even if he stays, has maybe a couple years left where he's the player he is now. Don't forget that a pass rush is also helped out when you have two guys who can play press coverage on the outside. In that respect, Peterson impacts the team in three ways, special teams, coverage corner and as an intimidating presence with the size to dominate opposing team's playmaking pass catchers. Add all this up AND the fact that we can still draft very talented D-line guys in the 2nd round and I see him as the logical choice.

There's no doubt Peterson's potential is through the roof, but will he truly be the triple-threat you're describing here? Here's where I have concerns:

1. Returner- If Peterson's truly a dominant CB, will an NFL team risk using him in the return game? If so, I would think it would only be occasionally, late in the game or in key situations. I just don't think you can take the injury risk of having him as a regular returner.

2. Coverage Corner- Peterson's a natural playmaker, there's no denying that. When the ball's in the air, he looks more like a WR than a CB at times. He seems to be a gambler though, and he will get beat from time to time because of that. He keeps getting pushed as a coverage corner on this board, a guy who will take away half the field, but I think he's got more Cromartie in him than Revis.

3. Physical Presence- While I think this will help in the running game, the NFL has taken away the ability for DB's to have a physical presence in the passing game. It really is a shame in this instance, as that does take away a big element of Peterson's game.

Now, all that said, I wouldn't be upset about a Peterson pick, especially if the Broncos can add a couple of good DL later in the draft. I'm not quite sure he's the can't-miss, sure-fire superstar some are claiming. At #2, he's probably the best option, but I still see more value in moving back and adding, say, Dareus and a 2nd.

Bigdawg26
02-20-2011, 11:19 AM
Bowers is so overrated.

THANK YOU!!!!!!

epicSocialism4tw
02-20-2011, 11:26 AM
Every game I have seen Bowers or Peterson in, they have just disappeared. In fact, I had to make it a point to find out even which player they were.

Every game I have watch Dareus in, there was no doubt which player he was, and he basically demanded attention.

albeit, this is from a small sample size, but from what I could tell, give me Dareus every day and twice on Sundays.

I would be more than content with Dareus.

oubronco
02-20-2011, 11:30 AM
Every game I have seen Bowers or Peterson in, they have just disappeared. In fact, I had to make it a point to find out even which player they were.

Every game I have watch Dareus in, there was no doubt which player he was, and he basically demanded attention.

albeit, this is from a small sample size, but from what I could tell, give me Dareus every day and twice on Sundays.

Amen Brotha if we pass on him it will be a mistake

CEH
02-20-2011, 11:38 AM
I'd like to resign Champ

At #2 I'd take Bowers

or Trade down and get a Quinn, Miller pass rsuher top 8 or trade down even further into the top 15 and select a pass rushing DE like Kerrigan or the kid from Cal (whoever they deem a solid pass rushing DE with a mid round grade plus get at least another 2nd I can use to come back up in the 1st round and select a top 20 CB to pair with Champ. Hopefully Cox is not history. I would think a top 20 CB paired with Champ now and Cox later plus a pass rusing DE would be a great 1st round for Denver. Then in theh 2nd and 3rd we have 3 more players. Then you look at MLBer, S, DT, RB, G


The potential is there to make this team alot better on the defensive side
in '11. I would love a MLBer like Fox had in Car with Beason

Play2win
02-20-2011, 11:55 AM
Amen Brotha if we pass on him it will be a mistake

Exactly. Don't trade down. Just take Dareus at #2. Don't over-complicate it. Just do it!! :thumbsup:

Shananahan
02-20-2011, 12:03 PM
There's simply never been an NFL corner with his size, let alone in combination with the speed and return ability he has. He's 30 pounds bigger than Champ is right now, and he may get even bigger. Add in the fact that he may very well run a sub 4.3 forty at the combine and he's way off the scale. Ane we're not even talking about the return ability he has.
You keep fawning over stuff like this anytime Peterson is discussed and it's ridiculous. Your obsession with size/speed is distorting facts and opinions on the issue, because a lot of what you use isn't true. Peterson has already begun training for his 40 time, and he's dropping weight to do so. I read an article where he said he was hoping to get down to 207 or less to increase his speed. Your notion that he will be running a 'sub 4.3' at 230+lbs is absurd and illogical.

oubronco
02-20-2011, 02:47 PM
"You mentioned two incredibly talented guys that each have boom-or-bust potential," said Mike Mayock, a draft analyst for the NFL Network. "Da'Quan Bowers is a one-year wonder. It was a wonderful one year, but you better make sure because he didn't have production prior to that."

Bowers had one sack as a freshman and three as a sophomore before his NCAA-leading 15 1/2 as a junior. There is depth to his excellence, though, as he was also considered the No. 1 high school prospect coming out of Bamberg, S.C. Besides 14 sacks, Bowers rushed for 1,219 yards and 19 touchdowns as a high school senior.


Read more: Broncos' Fox drafting a big move - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17433567#ixzz1EXQBCbBT) http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17433567#ixzz1EXQBCbBT
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

cutthemdown
02-20-2011, 02:53 PM
Eeeesh Oubroncos post just made me think Bowers=dj williams Another great HS player who didn't live up to billing.

Beantown Bronco
02-20-2011, 03:06 PM
There's no doubt Peterson's potential is through the roof, but will he truly be the triple-threat you're describing here? Here's where I have concerns:

1. Returner- If Peterson's truly a dominant CB, will an NFL team risk using him in the return game? If so, I would think it would only be occasionally, late in the game or in key situations. I just don't think you can take the injury risk of having him as a regular returner.

And.....as I've pointed out numerous times.....this is Denver. If they signed him, he'd be neutered as a returner because 3/4 of the kickoffs go for touchbacks and almost all the punts go for either fair catches or touchbacks. Every year we draft a guy that was among the league leaders in NCAA return yardage and every year we have mediocre at best return teams. You just can't have that much impact playing half your games in Denver. It's a tradeoff unfortunately.

montrose
02-20-2011, 05:18 PM
Do you think we pick up someone at DT in FA? Williams can't play 3 downs.

Probably but who knows what kind of a FA period we'll have with the CBA.

And you're okay with 'decent' from the #2 pick?

I'm okay with safe. I'd love to shoot for the moon with a high risk/high reward player but looking at the last 4 1st round picks of the Broncos over the past two years - my risk tolerance is at an all time low. I'd actually prefer to Marcel Dareus if he's safer than Bowers - the pick just can't be another bust.

cutthemdown
02-20-2011, 06:33 PM
Probably but who knows what kind of a FA period we'll have with the CBA.



I'm okay with safe. I'd love to shoot for the moon with a high risk/high reward player but looking at the last 4 1st round picks of the Broncos over the past two years - my risk tolerance is at an all time low. I'd actually prefer to Marcel Dareus if he's safer than Bowers - the pick just can't be another bust.

what if a scout said that AJ Green will be the biggest impact player in this draft. Would that sway you to going WR? Does anyone really think Broncos aren't at least considering this guy? Not like Broncos really have any stud WR.

oubronco
02-20-2011, 06:50 PM
Take Dareus #2 then hope we get Taylor with our early 2nd then if Jimmy Smith is there with our other 2nd grab him, pickup the DE from Carolina (can't remember his name) and maybe Atogowe then all we would have to do is find a MLB and the defense is set

Shananahan
02-20-2011, 09:06 PM
what if a scout said that AJ Green will be the biggest impact player in this draft. Would that sway you to going WR? Does anyone really think Broncos aren't at least considering this guy? Not like Broncos really have any stud WR.
I'm sure they are looking at him, and to be honest I could live with them selecting him only because I'm pretty sure there isn't any way he busts. It would be pretty frustrating, though.

misturanderson
02-20-2011, 09:13 PM
what if a scout said that AJ Green will be the biggest impact player in this draft. Would that sway you to going WR? Does anyone really think Broncos aren't at least considering this guy? Not like Broncos really have any stud WR.

The NFL receiving leader disagrees with this post.

NFLBRONCO
02-20-2011, 09:36 PM
Denver could use AJ Green easily but, get real it's D D D D.

epicSocialism4tw
02-20-2011, 09:51 PM
The NFL receiving leader disagrees with this post.

Lloyd was fantastic last season. He was alot of fun to watch. The guy is the Blake Griffin of WR's...makes wild fantastic athletic plays.

cutthemdown
02-20-2011, 10:57 PM
The NFL receiving leader disagrees with this post.

Ok Lloyd had a great yr. But I have watched a lot of football and have seen a ton of guys have that one career yr.

I don't think Lloyd really compares to Green as far as athletic ability and size guy but Lloyd had a great yr.

Still if you had to list the 10 biggest stud WR, would Lloyd really make your list already?

A lot of his yrdage was in garbage time.

cutthemdown
02-20-2011, 10:58 PM
Lloyd was fantastic last season. He was alot of fun to watch. The guy is the Blake Griffin of WR's...makes wild fantastic athletic plays.

So you are saying we totally scored and Lloyd a top 10 wr. Because people are saying Green the next Calvin Johnson. I hope Lloyd is that good but I doubt he ever has another yr like last yr.

epicSocialism4tw
02-20-2011, 11:32 PM
So you are saying we totally scored and Lloyd a top 10 wr. Because people are saying Green the next Calvin Johnson. I hope Lloyd is that good but I doubt he ever has another yr like last yr.

I would immediately lose all faith in the BBT if they chose Green. The only offensive picks in this draft should be TE and OL, and they should be 3rd round or later.

serious hops
02-20-2011, 11:54 PM
what if a scout said that AJ Green will be the biggest impact player in this draft. Would that sway you to going WR? Does anyone really think Broncos aren't at least considering this guy? Not like Broncos really have any stud WR.

Matt Millen approves of this post.

A lot.

footstepsfrom#27
02-20-2011, 11:54 PM
You keep fawning over stuff like this anytime Peterson is discussed and it's ridiculous. Your obsession with size/speed is distorting facts and opinions on the issue, because a lot of what you use isn't true. Peterson has already begun training for his 40 time, and he's dropping weight to do so. I read an article where he said he was hoping to get down to 207 or less to increase his speed. Your notion that he will be running a 'sub 4.3' at 230+lbs is absurd and illogical.
OK Mr. 3 posts...Peterson has already clocked 4.37 for NFL scouts and 4.3 flat unofficially at 222 pounds.

Who are you?

Shananahan
02-21-2011, 12:41 AM
It's true, though. I've seen you say, "There's never been a cornerback with his size before in the NFL," as if that means something, and follow it up by claiming he runs a sub 4.3 forty time. But it's all silly because he's not going to be 230lbs or even 220lbs+ and run a sub 4.3 forty. A month ago he gave an interview where he said he was already down to 211, and multiple people, including Mayock, have said he will probably need to drop from his listed college weight in order to stay loose enough in the hips at corner.

I'm not trying to attack you or even criticize your opinion that we should draft him, and I'd be perfectly happy if they picked him at #2. It's just become old to read you gushing about all of these physical attributes to the point of going overboard realistically.

broncogary
02-21-2011, 06:27 AM
OK Mr. 3 posts...Peterson has already clocked 4.37 for NFL scouts and 4.3 flat unofficially at 222 pounds.

Who are you?

Mentally multiply his posts by 20,000, add a cat, some LLC's, and nieces, and I can picture one of the all-time great Maners. :thanku:

Captain 'Dre
02-21-2011, 08:33 AM
Denver could use AJ Green easily but, get real it's D D D D.

ugh!~

Shananahan
02-21-2011, 10:00 AM
Mentally multiply his posts by 20,000, add a cat, some LLC's, and nieces, and I can picture one of the all-time great Maners. :thanku:
That's one of the last posters I'd want to be compared to.

cutthemdown
02-21-2011, 01:06 PM
I would immediately lose all faith in the BBT if they chose Green. The only offensive picks in this draft should be TE and OL, and they should be 3rd round or later.

Really? What if you knew the future and it said out of the first round the only true stud was green. He goes on to be an elite WR for 10 yrs and the defensive guys are only avg NFL starters.

Would that change your mind at all?

cutthemdown
02-21-2011, 01:24 PM
Matt Millen approves of this post.

A lot.

he made some bad picks, but Calvin Johnson isn't one of them.

BroncoMan4ever
02-21-2011, 01:52 PM
he made some bad picks, but Calvin Johnson isn't one of them.

even a broken clock is right 2 times a day, and Millen wasn't even that accurate to hit on 2 picks.

as high as those draft picks were, the Lions could have very well turned into a beast in the NFC had they had a GM with a brain making the decisions.

BroncoMan4ever
02-21-2011, 01:57 PM
Probably but who knows what kind of a FA period we'll have with the CBA.



I'm okay with safe. I'd love to shoot for the moon with a high risk/high reward player but looking at the last 4 1st round picks of the Broncos over the past two years - my risk tolerance is at an all time low. I'd actually prefer to Marcel Dareus if he's safer than Bowers - the pick just can't be another bust.

Bowers and Fairley both seem like the definitions of risky picks. Bowers had 1 great year and that **** reminds me of Jarvis Moss and we don't need another player of the low calibur of Moss. Fairley is a guy with great hype for his play in 1 game.

if all 3 were available to Denver at 2 and there was no way to trade back, i would pray they pick Dareus. he doesn't have as high of a ceiling as potentially Bowers and Fairley but he looks to be a good player and you know what you are getting with him, the other 2 can be hit or miss