Should the Taxpayer's Bailout the U.S. Postal Service

[Pony Boy]

Another bailout on the way - Postal Service next in line

This is the question: Should the U.S. taxpayer’s bailout the United States Postal Service. There would not be an option for a payback, it would be a straight buyout to cover the cost of pensions and health care costs for retirees. The U.S. Postal Service warned Wednesday that it may default on some of its financial obligations later this year after reporting yet another quarterly loss.

The service spends 78 percent of its budget on salaries and benefits, higher than either FedEx's 43 percent or UPS's 61 percent.

The USPS, a self-supporting government agency that receives no tax dollars, said it suffered a loss of $329 million in the first quarter of federal fiscal year 2011. That compared with a loss of $297 million a year earlier.

The agency has been suffering from an ongoing decline in mail volume, which has undercut revenues, while retiree health care costs have been straining its reserves.

Imagine a company that reported losses in 14 of the past 16 quarters, has too many retail outlets by its own admission, and relies heavily on work done for its two biggest competitors for revenue. Any management consultant would recommend the obvious: Close unnecessary offices, lay off workers, expand into new lines of business, and raise prices.

But this is the U.S. Postal Service. It's expected to show a profit without a government subsidy, yet Congress, powerful labor unions, and even its own regulators are preventing it from making hard-nosed business decisions. The result could be a painful restructuring or a government bailout before the fiscal year ends next Sept. 30.

Patrick R. Donahoe is charged with fixing the mess. A 35-year postal veteran, he became Postmaster General on Dec. 4. Donahoe told bulk mail customers on Nov. 18 that the service's costs will exceed revenue by $2.7 billion, even after borrowing $3 billion from the U.S. Treasury, the annual legal limit. Total debt, now $12 billion, by law can't exceed $15 billion. Revenues in fiscal 2010 were $67 billion.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_51/b4208033645172.htm

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/02/another_bailout_on_the_way_pos.html

[TailgateNut]

NO!!!

[Rohirrim]

Snail mail is becoming extinct. No point in trying to prop it up. My great grandfather was a blacksmith. His son, my grandfather, turned the smithy into an auto repair shop. He could have kept blacksmithing, but he would have gone broke.

[TailgateNut]

Snail mail is becoming extinct. No point in trying to prop it up. My great grandfather was a blacksmith. His son, my grandfather, turned the smithy into an auto repair shop. He could have kept blacksmithing, but he would have gone broke.

Good comparison.

The USPS's biggest foe= E-mail.

[Mile High Shack]

Snail mail is becoming extinct. No point in trying to prop it up. My great grandfather was a blacksmith. His son, my grandfather, turned the smithy into an auto repair shop. He could have kept blacksmithing, but he would have gone broke.

yeah, but you could still get a sweet job at some resort ;)

[Odysseus]

USPS is the last bastion of American service for soldiers. USPS provides a valuable service for both America and Americans.

Bailout is not the answer. What nobody seems to remember is the sweetheart deals where money was taken out of USPS and fed directly into Federal Express and UPS. These were called cost cutting measures but were in fact sweetheart contracts gutting the USPS of valuable cash flow.

USPS management needs to be gutted but I would like to see USPS remain intact.

[orinjkrush]

they should just stop delivering to expensive addresses. just like the private sector does.

[Garcia Bronco]

To get rid of it would be stupid; but like any dinosaur...it's big, fat, slow, and unable to adjust. It needs to be ripped down and re-made.

[kappys]

USPS is the last bastion of American service for soldiers. USPS provides a valuable service for both America and Americans.

Bailout is not the answer. What nobody seems to remember is the sweetheart deals where money was taken out of USPS and fed directly into Federal Express and UPS. These were called cost cutting measures but were in fact sweetheart contracts gutting the USPS of valuable cash flow.

USPS management needs to be gutted but I would like to see USPS remain intact.

This.

Then again the govt could force private companies to deliver - they way they do with trains and transportation of dangerous chemicals.

[baja]

The postal service and libraries are two wonderful services that the USA has that the rest of the world envy they should be saved.

[bronclvr]

Back when I was a broke sucka (read; had mouths to feed), I worked part time at the Post Office-there are many duplicities, and while it is not your tyopical Government job (people actually work there), I would shut down the extraneous locations-I worked in a main sorting location, and we routinely shipped sorted mail/packages less than 2 miles away to a small substation.

To me, it's either raise the rates, shut down some of the locations, or stop things like Saturday delivery (or a combination of the three)-I will tell you that I came away impressed with how hard a lot of those people work, and the conditions they work in-some of those people were lifers, and no way would I do that for life (they didn't pay enough)-

[AZorange1]

The postal service and libraries are two wonderful services that the USA has that the rest of the world envy they should be saved.

Totally agree and we could start by not spending $450K for a closed-roof fly-over at the Super Bowl that cost the taxpayers. 4 F-18's all the way from Virginia and the fans inside neither saw it or even heard it. They watched on the big screen for 4 seconds. Excellent example of government money managment.

[Mr.Meanie]

Totally agree and we could start by not spending $450K for a closed-roof fly-over at the Super Bowl that cost the taxpayers. 4 F-18's all the way from Virginia and the fans inside neither saw it or even heard it. They watched on the big screen for 4 seconds. Excellent example of government money managment.

Those fly-overs were already scheduled as part of routine training exercises. Coordinating scheduled training to perfectly time the Superbowl kickoff was a fairly marginal additional expense.

[baja]

Totally agree and we could start by not spending $450K for a closed-roof fly-over at the Super Bowl that cost the taxpayers. 4 F-18's all the way from Virginia and the fans inside neither saw it or even heard it. They watched on the big screen for 4 seconds. Excellent example of government money managment.


People living in the USA and have not traveled much take for granted the post office here in Mexico and many other countries I have visited you can never send anything of value through the mail system because the the chances of it reaching it's destination are slim.

Libraries are a treasure that many countries do not have. I go into a USA library and I can't believe the services any book you want and if they don't have it often they can order it from another library. They also tons of CDs & DVDs and internet for free.

[chadta]

Canada post makes money, and has for years, and our country is bigger with less people, i see no reason why your postal service cant as well.

http://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/aboutus/news/pr/2010/2010_apr_annual_report.jsf

"Canada Post Corporation tabled its 2009 annual report today in Parliament, reporting a profit for the 15^th consecutive year."

im sure if you asked they would tell you how they did it.

[Pony Boy]

I have moved all my important mail, utility bills and bank and credit card statements to paperless billing. No one in their right mind should leave information like that in a mailbox on your porch and for sure not a rural mailbox. There is talk of stopping Saturday delivery but I don't think that's enough, I would be ok with three day delivery (Monday, Wednesday and Friday). It's also time to close all the small rural Post Offices and consolidate all those services.

The postal service is light years behind UPS and FedEx in package delivery and real time tracking information. Yes, I do agree they are the only game in town when it comes to the military mail but they only process the mail to the APO’s and FPO’s and the military takes it from there.

[bronco militia]

Totally agree and we could start by not spending $450K for a closed-roof fly-over at the Super Bowl that cost the taxpayers. 4 F-18's all the way from Virginia and the fans inside neither saw it or even heard it. They watched on the big screen for 4 seconds. Excellent example of government money managment.

The $450,000 figure was based on the aircraft’s operational cost, the time it took pilots in the F-18 jets to fly the mission and a backup plane, according to official data.
But the Navy said the only costs of the trip that it recorded were the fuel expenses of $109,000 and the flyover provided good publicity to help military recruitment

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1355727/Navy-spent-450-000-Super-Bowl-flyover-shut-roof.html#ixzz1DgbNleDy

[AZorange1]

Those fly-overs were already scheduled as part of routine training exercises. Coordinating scheduled training to perfectly time the Superbowl kickoff was a fairly marginal additional expense.

If you read the whole article (sorry I didn't provide the link, I'm still trying to figure that one out) it states the main reason was recruitment advertising in lieu of a TV ad. The training excersize statment is like an attorney using a "loophole". They should have just stuck to a TV ad. That way the networks could pay more money to those wonderfully talented half-time "entertainers".

[Pony Boy]

The $450,000 figure was based on the aircraft’s operational cost, the time it took pilots in the F-18 jets to fly the mission and a backup plane, according to official data.
But the Navy said the only costs of the trip that it recorded were the fuel expenses of $109,000 and the flyover provided good publicity to help military recruitment

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1355727/Navy-spent-450-000-Super-Bowl-flyover-shut-roof.html#ixzz1DgbNleDy

I think they could have just showed a video of the jets on the big-ass screen in Texas stadium and cranked up the surround sound and saved a crap load of money and still used it as a recruiting tool.....;D

[cutthemdown]

no. It's my job to pay for your pension when your company loses money.

[AZorange1]

I think they could have just showed a video of the jets on the big-ass screen in Texas stadium and cranked up the surround sound and saved a crap load of money and still used it as a recruiting tool.....;D

PreciselyLOL

[Pony Boy]

no. It's my job to pay for your pension when your company loses money.

Bend over and grab your ankles, you’re already paying it. The Postal Services continues to go in the red but they can borrow all the money they need to cover it. A private company would have already hung a going out of business sign on the door. The question is not “will we forgive the debt and bail them out” but "when will we bail them out".

[Mr.Meanie]

If you read the whole article (sorry I didn't provide the link, I'm still trying to figure that one out) it states the main reason was recruitment advertising in lieu of a TV ad. The training excersize statment is like an attorney using a "loophole". They should have just stuck to a TV ad. That way the networks could pay more money to those wonderfully talented half-time "entertainers".

I don't know if you were aware, but a 30 second spot during the superbowl cost $2.5M. $109k for a flyby to the intro of the most popular sport in America seems like a tremendous bargain, IMO.

[mhgaffney]

Pony Boy,

It's obvious you have assimilated the nonsense current in the nation. The reason is because the predatory Capitalists control the airwaves -- i.e., the media. They want EVERYTHING privatized -- including the water you drink and the air you breathe.

BTW these are thew same bast-ards who melted down the economy. What makes you think they give a shyte about improving postal service?

Integrate this: the Postage Service was never supposed to make a profit.

If it loses money -- no big deal. The solution is simple. Raise the cost of postage.

Why is this too simple? Answer: You've been brainwashed.

If you scrap the PS -- we will pay one hell of a lot more for private postal service. probably double or triple what we pay now.

Only a fool would support this. I notice Ro has signed on to your campaign -- no surprise. Things get worse.
MHG

[bronco militia]

I think they could have just showed a video of the jets on the big-ass screen in Texas stadium and cranked up the surround sound and saved a crap load of money and still used it as a recruiting tool.....;D

we bought the planes and trained the pilots. They may as well fly them.

[Pony Boy]

Pony Boy,

If you scrap the PS -- we will pay one hell of a lot more for private postal service. probably double or triple what we pay now.Only a fool would support this. I notice Ro has signed on to your campaign -- no surprise. Things get worse.
MHG

Please point out where in this thread where I said "scrap the postal service"....... either read the thread or STFU......... now crawl back in your hole and let your pups suck or think of something you could add to this discussion that is relevant.

[BroncoLifer]

Good comparison.

The USPS's biggest foe= E-mail.

I read somewhere (forget where) that auto-pay of utilities, credit cards, etc. instead of mailing invoices and payments was the #1 loss in revenue to the USPS.

[mhgaffney]

Pony,

The language you are using -- about a bail out -- is a lie. The mis-use of the term bail out here is a giveaway that this initiative is another globalist move -- to privatize the PS.

The PS is one of the few federal agencies that actually works. It delivers an important service at a reasonable price. The PS books are also transparent -- we know exactly where the money went. Which is a totally different situation than with Wall Street.

So -- just raise the rates. Simple. Problem solved.

Why are you letting the globalists define the issues here?

[cutthemdown]

Who cares over 90% of what i get in mail is junk

[mhgaffney]

Yes -- true -- but that remaining 10% includes legal documents that must go via snail mail -- and also certain other types of mail that needs to go the old way.

I love snail mail. I will miss it if it goes.

[Garcia Bronco]

Haven't needed snail mail in over 5 years. In fact if you let your mailbox get stuffed; they'll stop delivering.

[Pony Boy]

Pony,

The language you are using -- about a bail out -- is a lie. The mis-use of the term bail out here is a giveaway that this initiative is another globalist move -- to privatize the PS.

The PS is one of the few federal agencies that actually works. It delivers an important service at a reasonable price. The PS books are also transparent -- we know exactly where the money went. Which is a totally different situation than with Wall Street.

So -- just raise the rates. Simple. Problem solved.

Why are you letting the globalists define the issues here?

No, we are talking about a bailout not to privatize. What will be on the table is to restructure the existing postal system or downsize and make it competitive, but in order to do that we will need to forgive or bailout the existing debt. The Federal government will be asked to take over the pension fund and health care cost for postal workers. This question is should we do that?

[Requiem]

I like mail.

[Obushma]

No, the taxpayer shouldn't.

Government should repeal the bill that Bush passed to cause all this mess.

[JJJ]

No, the taxpayer shouldn't.

Government should repeal the bill that Bush passed to cause all this mess.

Mess, what mess? You said the post office is self-sustaining remember. There is no problem here, move along everyone.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3056359&postcount=68

[Obushma]

Mess, what mess? You said the post office is self-sustaining remember. There is no problem here, move along everyone.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3056359&postcount=68

It helps when you link the actual post where I identified the problem in that thread.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3056324&postcount=65

[orinjkrush]

turns out that junk mail is a big revenue generator. crap. hate that stuff.

if UPS or FEDEX had to operate with the rules that USPS does, neither of them would turn a profit either.

but like NASA there are some things Ben Franklin would consider indispensable.

[That One Guy]

turns out that junk mail is a big revenue generator. crap. hate that stuff.

if UPS or FEDEX had to operate with the rules that USPS does, neither of them would turn a profit either.

but like NASA there are some things Ben Franklin would consider indispensable.

I can deal with junk mail but in the last year or so, it seems I'm getting ads almost daily. Big, newspaper style ads that fall apart and make me look in between sheets to ensure I'm not missing any mail. That pisses me off.

And, yeah, I think they should just keep the post office open and then deliver mail like once a week or something. Want something more often than that, stop by the post office and pick it up. My cable bill doesn't warrant a daily trip to my mailbox.

[JJJ]

I can deal with junk mail but in the last year or so, it seems I'm getting ads almost daily. Big, newspaper style ads that fall apart and make me look in between sheets to ensure I'm not missing any mail. That pisses me off.

And, yeah, I think they should just keep the post office open and then deliver mail like once a week or something. Want something more often than that, stop by the post office and pick it up. My cable bill doesn't warrant a daily trip to my mailbox.

That is really a good and pragmatic suggestion. Even every other day delivery would be quite a reasonable approach.

I am surprised the greenies haven't come out long ago in opposition to doorstep delivered mail on a six day per week basis. Somehow when union jobs are at stake being environmentally friendly doesn't seem so important to the democrats.

[chadta]

i still cant believe you guys get mail saturdays

[Odysseus]

People living in the USA and have not traveled much take for granted the post office here in Mexico and many other countries I have visited you can never send anything of value through the mail system because the the chances of it reaching it's destination are slim.

Libraries are a treasure that many countries do not have. I go into a USA library and I can't believe the services any book you want and if they don't have it often they can order it from another library. They also tons of CDs & DVDs and internet for free.

If Obama tried to create a library system in today's political client he would be called everything but a child of God. If he tried to create a National Parks system or create anything that uses the word standards or federal and he will get crushed.

People talk about junk mail as if email spam does not exist or as if the national call list actually prevents you from getting phone solicitations.

I prefer paperless everything but there is nothing like the USPS anywhere in the world. We seem to have no thankfulness for things until we destroy them.

[Bronco Yoda]

I vote for mail. Out of all the things we fund, this should be a no brainer. That goes for the libraries and National Parks too.

We're willing to give Billions every year to countries that hate us but aren't even willing to support the basics here at home. WTFE... carry on...

[JJJ]

I vote for mail. Out of all the things we fund, this should be a no brainer. That goes for the libraries and National Parks too.

We're willing to give Billions every year to countries that hate us but aren't even willing to support the basics here at home. WTFE... carry on...

6 day a week mail delivery in this day and age is necessary and basic? Not so much.

No argument on the national parks and libraries. Good things that should be made accessible and affordable to all citizens and well worth the investments.