The forgotten war in Afghanistan

[TonyR]

Am I the only one who finds it amazing that the below is going on in Afghanistan and it's almost completely ignored by the American media and public?


In the first 29 days of January 2011, NATO planes fired their guns, missiles, and bombs on 284 separate sorties. In January 2010, those aircraft only made 157 attack runs. This doubling of air attacks has been a consistent trend, ever since Petraeus took over the Afghan war effort. Under Petraeus, there have been 3,620 of these so-called “weapons sorties” over the last six months, U.S. military statistics show. Under his predecessor, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, there were just 1,813 during a similar stretch.

Petraeus hasn’t just ramped up the air war, however. He’s increased the aggressive tactics across the entire Afghan war effort. Petraeus unleashed special operations forces, who have killed or captured thousands of militants. His generals relied on massive surface-to-surface missiles to clear the Taliban out of Kandahar, and ordered tanks to help crush opponents in Helmand province. In perhaps the signature moment of Petraeus’ campaign, U.S. forces flattened three villages in the Arghandab River Valley which the Taliban had jury-rigged with homemade bombs.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/02/afghan-air-war-doubles-now-10-attacks-per-day/

[Mile High Shack]

maybe if we would've spent the resources we did in Iraq in Afghanistan....hmmm....naaa, nevermind

[Rohirrim]

Petraeus is doing what he's supposed to do; Defeat the enemy and win the war. It's the politicians who decide to keep wasting American lives and resources over there who are the ****ups. Of course, as long as we have a professional/mercenary army, no American really has to give a **** about it unless you are in that extreme minority whose loved ones are involved.

[cutthemdown]

I find it amazing also tony. When Bush was President they made a story every night about how many troops got killed. Now you don't hear anything. Bush surge in Iraq was a huge success, Obama's surge has been a huge failure. No one wants to say hey your plan to not bomb, to expose the troops to fire, to move through villages house by house hasn't worked like it did in Iraq.

Either get out or start fighting with are full arsenal of bombs, helicopters, tanks, and what not.

Obama is killing us troops and no one cares because hes not bush.

[cutthemdown]

Petraeus is doing what he's supposed to do; Defeat the enemy and win the war. It's the politicians who decide to keep wasting American lives and resources over there who are the ****ups. Of course, as long as we have a professional/mercenary army, no American really has to give a **** about it unless you are in that extreme minority whose loved ones are involved.

He's using the same lets not be to strongarmed plan he used in Iraq. Excpet Iraq is more civilized then Afghanistan believe it or not. When they stopped letting troops call in air striked around civilians it was all over for them.

You can't make them fight this with small arms like the are. What you need to do is go to a village, if its hostlile you blow the whole ****ing thing up.

[TonyR]

When Bush was President they made a story every night...

I honestly don't think politics or some kind of bias has much, if anything, to do with it. I think if Bush was still in office the situation would be very similar if not the same. It's just not a story any more. It goes from the front page to the second page to the back page to an occasional blurb over time as a matter of course. The media reports only the news/information that people want to consume and the wars just aren't novel any more, not the big story. And at least a small factor in this is what Ro mentioned above, that we have an all volunteer military. If there was a draft and some rich boys were over there dying it would be getting a little bit more attention.

[cutthemdown]

I honestly don't think politics or some kind of bias has much, if anything, to do with it. I think if Bush was still in office the situation would be very similar if not the same. It's just not a story any more. It goes from the front page to the second page to the back page to an occasional blurb over time as a matter of course. The media reports only the news/information that people want to consume and the wars just aren't novel any more, not the big story. And at least a small factor in this is what Ro mentioned above, that we have an all volunteer military. If there was a draft and some rich boys were over there dying it would be getting a little bit more attention.

I disagree I think media loved hammering it home on Bush, not so much on Obama. The conservatives don't hammer it home because they are so pro military, but at some point Obama and petreus need to reevaluate the plan because its not working at all. Iraq was nothing like Vietnam, but this is and quite frankly I think we are blowing it.

[cutthemdown]

Msnbc had a running tally of the dead troops for awhile, now not a word.

[Rohirrim]

I disagree I think media loved hammering it home on Bush, not so much on Obama. The conservatives don't hammer it home because they are so pro military, but at some point Obama and petreus need to reevaluate the plan because its not working at all. Iraq was nothing like Vietnam, but this is and quite frankly I think we are blowing it.

No. I think the Leftists in government (if there are any left, which is debatable) and media feel betrayed by Obama, but they are making the political calculation that if they attack Obama for two years over this stupid war, then he will likely be replaced by some frothing at the mouth Right winger who will be exponentially worse. Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. So, they sit and stew. There are still a few honest souls like Bernie Sanders who are fighting the good fight, but they are in the minority.

[TonyR]

I disagree I think media loved hammering it home on Bush, not so much on Obama. The conservatives don't hammer it home because they are so pro military...

There may be something to this but again if the war stories sold the media would sell it. I think there is just general fatigue on the topic. You tell the same/similar story over and over and people get tired of it.

It's like the weather. When a big storm is brewing the media hypes it and sells it like crazy because people want it. But if it stormed more frequently there would be less reporting of it because it wouldn't be as much of an event.

The war used to be a big story, and there were a lot of politics involvded which juiced it up even more. But it's been going on so long now that it's just barely news any more to the average person. It's far from home and it doesn't impact their day to day lives.

[cutthemdown]

No. I think the Leftists in government (if there are any left, which is debatable) and media feel betrayed by Obama, but they are making the political calculation that if they attack Obama for two years over this stupid war, then he will likely be replaced by some frothing at the mouth Right winger who will be exponentially worse. Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. So, they sit and stew. There are still a few honest souls like Bernie Sanders who are fighting the good fight, but they are in the minority.

Like I said they have a reason for not reporting on the war. They don't want to make Obama look bad, Bush they did. I hate to break the news to you but you just proved my point. Liberal media doesn't care about the news, only what there agenda is.

[cutthemdown]

It's BS because our boys are fighting and dying and the strategy stinks. They don't support with air cover, they don't support with heavy armor, they don't let them call in airstrikes inside villages. Our troops either need to be told kick ass, or just let them come home.

Don't people understand once you give them BS hand tying rules it levels the playing field? it makes it a small arms war which gets our boys killed.

I think its time to just leave Afghanistan if they don't want to kick ass.

[cutthemdown]

The Liberals should be all over Obama but they never really cared about the dead troops to begin with, it was just Bush they hated. The dead troops were just a means to the end.

Deep down dems know that troops vote repub about 65% so maybe they don't care.

[Mile High Shack]

couldn't you of just said all that in one post

[Rohirrim]

The Liberals should be all over Obama but they never really cared about the dead troops to begin with, it was just Bush they hated. The dead troops were just a means to the end.

Deep down dems know that troops vote repub about 65% so maybe they don't care.

Yeah. Only Republicans die in wars. Only Republicans are patriots. At Arlington, only Republicans are buried. blah, blah, blah

[cutthemdown]

Yeah. Only Republicans die in wars. Only Republicans are patriots. At Arlington, only Republicans are buried. blah, blah, blah

That isn't what i said and has nothing to do with this thread. Do you have a point about why the media doesn't report on the war or the dead like they did in Iraq?

[Mile High Shack]

That isn't what i said and has nothing to do with this thread. Do you have a point about why the media doesn't report on the war or the dead like they did in Iraq?

b/c like has been said, we have moved on to "better" things

like some dude taking off his shirt and taking a picture, or the "great reformers of the tea party"

ya know...important stuff

[cutthemdown]

couldn't you of just said all that in one post

and what does this post add to the topic? nothing just like all your posts.

[chadta]

It's BS because our boys are fighting and dying and the strategy stinks. They don't support with air cover, they don't support with heavy armor, they don't let them call in airstrikes inside villages. Our troops either need to be told kick ass, or just let them come home.

Don't people understand once you give them BS hand tying rules it levels the playing field? it makes it a small arms war which gets our boys killed.

I think its time to just leave Afghanistan if they don't want to kick ass.

QFT

Canada has lost 154 brave men, i have 3 close friends over there now, and as much as i support them, either we need to tell them to go win this thing, or we need to bring them home.

[cutthemdown]

b/c like has been said, we have moved on to "better" things

like some dude taking off his shirt and taking a picture, or the "great reformers of the tea party"

ya know...important stuff

exactly they have moved on to stuff they think will help the liberals. That is what they always do. Again thanks for proving my point.

[Mile High Shack]

and what does this post add to the topic? nothing just like all your posts.

something something socialist, something something Obama, something something killing America, something something reform

I figure what's the point, you seem to have it all figured out, so I just summed up all of your posts in here with the above mentioned phrases

[Mile High Shack]

exactly they have moved on to stuff they think will help the liberals. That is what they always do. Again thanks for proving my point.

seriously, do you need help breathing because you can't do 2 things at once

it has nothing to do with liberal or conservative, it has to do with a 24 hour news cycle and right now, people are burned out on the war and they'd rather hear about a dude taking off his shirt or Palin talking about history wrong.

[Rohirrim]

That isn't what i said and has nothing to do with this thread. Do you have a point about why the media doesn't report on the war or the dead like they did in Iraq?

Sure. Because it drives down their ratings. When they talk about Bachmann's latest whackitude or Palin's latest insult their ratings go up and they sell more soap. When they talk about war, their ratings drop. Simple.

[TonyR]

exactly they have moved on to stuff they think will help the liberals. That is what they always do.

You mean like when they reported every detail of the Monica Lewinsky "scandal", as just one example?

Come on, the MSM in general is not trying to "help the liberals". The MSM is a business and they focus on what sells. Again, the war doesn't sell any more. It's old news. This has almost nothing to do with media bias.

[cutthemdown]

QFT

Canada has lost 154 brave men, i have 3 close friends over there now, and as much as i support them, either we need to tell them to go win this thing, or we need to bring them home.

I have 2 friends who were hardcore marines from down in SD calif. Just talked to one who said neither are re enlisting for another go. Both have been in Iraq and Afghanistan. They told me straight out the war in Afghanistan is a joke and they are done with the military.

The better argument is that if we didn't fight in Iraq maybe our troops could take a bit more of this poor afghanistan strategy. But hindsight is bad and right now what we are doing isn't working.

We should just quit the war and tell afghanistan if you screw with the world, we come back with bombs so huge we will fireball your whole country. Every ****ing city. or cave whatever they live in.

[cutthemdown]

You mean like when they reported every detail of the Monica Lewinsky "scandal", as just one example?

Come on, the MSM in general is not trying to "help the liberals". The MSM is a business and they focus on what sells. Again, the war doesn't sell any more. It's old news. This has almost nothing to do with media bias.

Probably some validity to that but I think the bias is part of it as well. It could be a perfect storm that has the war forgotten but it doesn't change the fact Obama's strategy is crap? does it?

[cutthemdown]

the main issue is not the media but whether or not Obama's plan to use a more small armed approach to diminish civilian casualties is working or not.

[Mile High Shack]

Probably some validity to that but I think the bias is part of it as well. It could be a perfect storm that has the war forgotten but it doesn't change the fact Obama's strategy is crap? does it?

you listen to Faux News way too much

the "liberal media bias" line is old and worn out, like it has been stated, News is out there to make money, if war made money, they would be all over it

We don't have real news anymore anyway, it's all corporate greed

[cutthemdown]

couldn't you of just said all that in one post

Shhhh the men are talking.

[Rohirrim]

What you should pay attention to is who the biggest advertisers are on "news" shows. I'll tell you who: Big Pharma. Cialis. Viagra. Lunesta. Lipitor. That also tells you who the audience is. Everybody knows that Afghanistan has become another Vietnam. The policy is a failure. Pakistan is coming apart. We are stuck and ****ed. Nobody wants to hear that. You think the sales directors of those companies don't visit the producers of those shows and plop down little graphs showing how much bang they get for their buck? On the MSNBC they say, "More Bachmann and Palin stories!" On Fox they say, "More of this Obama is a Muslim socialist stuff." Oh, and BTW, they show the same commercials on both shows. And so it goes, as KV liked to say.

[Mile High Shack]

Shhhh the men are talking.

oh man, you got me there, man, I feel soooo burned, whew

With your snappy repartee and attention to detail, your talents are being missed on the comedy stages

[Requiem]

Might as well bring them home. Afghanistan and Iraq have been examples of epic failures from foreign invaders over the past 100-200 years making the mistake believing they can go there and change things.

Not winnable.

What a piss away of money.

What a piss away of lives.

What a dark memory staining America.

[mhgaffney]

Unfortunately, there are new indications that the US is planning to keep troops in Iraq and Afghanistan indefinitely.

[Mile High Shack]

Might as well bring them home. Afghanistan and Iraq have been examples of epic failures from foreign invaders over the past 100-200 years making the mistake believing they can go there and change things.

Not winnable.

What a piss away of money.

What a piss away of lives.

What a dark memory staining America.

This, we haven't committed to winning, we assumed just giving them "freedom" would make them love us

Unless we are really committed we need to stop wasting the billions of dollars over there

[chadta]

for the first time that i can ever remember in the WRP forum, it looks like we all kinda think the same thing

So why the hell aint it happening ?

[Mile High Shack]

for the first time that i can ever remember in the WRP forum, it looks like we all kinda think the same thing

So why the hell aint it happening ?

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8y06NSBBRtY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Requiem]

Unfortunately, there are new indications that the US is planning to keep troops in Iraq and Afghanistan indefinitely.

From Day 1, I operated under the assumption we would never leave.

[cutthemdown]

It's so blatant that the media, both sides, have stopped reporting on the war it is unforgivable. For or against we deserve to be informed. Won't matter anyways because the good troops aren't re enlisting. It's only a matter of time before military ruined and ran into the ground. Bush stretched them to the breaking point and Obama is keeping the foot on the gas in afghan but making them drive yugos.

[cutthemdown]

Now they are saying Mubarek was going to step down, until the CIA director said before he did that he was going to. Now Mubarek doesnt want to look like usa told them what to do and he reversed course. Obama's admin is a joke.

[Rohirrim]

Now they are saying Mubarek was going to step down, until the CIA director said before he did that he was going to. Now Mubarek doesnt want to look like usa told them what to do and he reversed course. Obama's admin is a joke.

I have yet to see anybody substantiate any claims whatsoever that the U.S. has, or wants, to exercise any influence on what happens next in Egypt. Sounds to me like just more of the same old Fox-making-up-**** propaganda.

[cutthemdown]

I have yet to see anybody substantiate any claims whatsoever that the U.S. has, or wants, to exercise any influence on what happens next in Egypt. Sounds to me like just more of the same old Fox-making-up-**** propaganda.

lol

[cutthemdown]

Yeah there are no signs USA wants to influence what happens in Egypt. God you are an imbecile.

[Rohirrim]

Yeah there are no signs USA wants to influence what happens in Egypt. God you are an imbecile.

I'm sure you'll be able to substantiate a single claim then.

[Mile High Shack]

I'm sure you'll be able to substantiate a single claim then.

he'll "refudiate" the **** out of it

[Rohirrim]

he'll "refudiate" the **** out of it

Yep. Obama's public stance has been that Egpyt should begin the transition to a new government now, following the wishes of the people. Mubarak just pretty much said **** that. I guess our "influence" isn't working.

[Mile High Shack]

Yep. Obama's public stance has been that Egpyt should begin the transition to a new government now, following the wishes of the people. Mubarak just pretty much said **** that. I guess our "influence" isn't working.

it just amazes me that people think we should be telling Egypt what to do.

if we get involved in it, it will backfire on us and end up making more terroists

[cutthemdown]

oh man that is funny **** shack.

[cutthemdown]

It will make more terrorists!! it will make more terrorists! what a bunch of hippie bull**** ball shack.

[Mile High Shack]

It will make more terrorists!! it will make more terrorists! what a bunch of hippie bull**** ball shack.

Let me try to say it slowly so you don't have to make two posts in a row

If we get involved and prop up another puppet, they will find out eventually and they will be even more pissed

I don't know how much simpler to say that

Imagine a new wife coming in your house and start telling you what to do but you find out someone got that person and put her in control

If you don't think that would spark outrage, I'm not sure what to say to you, I do apologize for your ignorance though

[TonyR]

Obama's admin is a joke.

You are aware the Obama is the president of the USA and not Egypt, right?

[cutthemdown]

So ball shack under your theory we better stop selling weapons to Saudi's right? And helping Jordan or Qatar? The people when they rise up in those places may hold it against us right? I mean it will be like when someone sends a wife to live with you without your consent. ???? lol. You are an idiot dickwad.

We will always help countries when it serves our interests. Mubarak has helped us keep region stable and hopefully this revolt will die down, the new govt can give some reforms, let some other political parties form and take part etc. You know a smooth transition. But just taking the mobs side because you are afraid it could breed a terrorist or two is ****shack.

[Mile High Shack]

So ball shack under your theory we better stop selling weapons to Saudi's right? And helping Jordan or Qatar? The people when they rise up in those places may hold it against us right? I mean it will be like when someone sends a wife to live with you without your consent. ???? lol. You are an idiot dillwad.

We will always help countries when it serves our interests. Mubarak has helped us keep region stable and hopefully this revolt will die down, the new govt can give some reforms, let some other political parties form and take part etc. You know a smooth transition. But just taking the mobs side because you are afraid it could breed a terrorist or two is ****shack.

I assume you take the stand of "just blow all those brown mud people up" huh

and you kind of proved my point there dude (by the way, those hurtful names, man, you SKOOOLED ME, ooooo NOZZEEE) all those middle eastern countries, there seems to be a common theme...why do you think they hate us and your first guess better not be "because of our freedoms" b/c that ain't it sunshine

seriously, re-read what you wrote, all those countries, us giving aid to dictators, people being oppressed in those countries....it's a common theme, I guess you don't see that huh, even though you basically said it in what you posted.

I know, you will come back with a verbal attack, calling me a pussy, but that's ok, I use to be young once too. You'll figure out one day the world is us against them or black and white, there are MANY MANY shades of gray.

Just one thing you need to learn, they don't hate us for our freedoms

[Rohirrim]

So ball shack under your theory we better stop selling weapons to Saudi's right? And helping Jordan or Qatar? The people when they rise up in those places may hold it against us right? I mean it will be like when someone sends a wife to live with you without your consent. ???? lol. You are an idiot dillwad.

We will always help countries when it serves our interests. Mubarak has helped us keep region stable and hopefully this revolt will die down, the new govt can give some reforms, let some other political parties form and take part etc. You know a smooth transition. But just taking the mobs side because you are afraid it could breed a terrorist or two is ****shack.

Boy, the Right sure does love those autocratice rulers, don't they? Of course, they've been trying to install one in America for decades. If only we could fix elections... oh wait. They do that already, don't they? :rofl:

Your post is what is wrong with America: We have an entire political faction on the Right that prefers business as usual over the freedom of people. They'll take stable markets over liberty any day of the week. You rightards love your "freedom fighters," but only the ones you own.

BTW, I notice that most of the rightard leadership is keeping their mouths shut about Egypt. Why? So that no matter what happens, good or bad, they'll be able to come out and say Obama ****ed it up. In other words, they're a bunch of slimeball cowards.

[cutthemdown]

They don't hate us because of our freedom they hate us because of there religion.

[Mile High Shack]

They don't hate us because of our freedom they hate us because of there religion.

totally and unequivocally not true, they hate us because we prop up dictators that in turn oppress and take away freedom from them

shades of gray son, shades of gray

[Odysseus]

They don't hate us because of our freedom they hate us because of there religion.

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/mbhood_en.html#americanjihad

They are taught from a small age to hate Jews and hate America. Propping up a dictator is not the worst of our sins. Our worst sin is that we are not Muslim.

I don't advocate puppet governments but our real enemy is the media in those regions. Remember how mad people got over Reverend Wright's rhetoric? Imagine entire nation's saying the same thing generation after generation?

[mhgaffney]

Odysseus,

Did the Cheyenne hate Jews? Did the Cherokee hate Jews? Did the Algonquin hate Jews?

Of course not. You are not seeing things as they are.

The Palestinians are the modern day equivalents of the Native Americans. This is the best way to understand what is happening in the Mideast.

The under dogs who are being disenfranchised of their human rights, their lands, their property and even their lives have justice and international law on their side.

The US has sided with tyranny and treachery. The motto of the Mossad is "by way of deception."

Will you continue to be fooled?

[cutthemdown]

totally and unequivocally not true, they hate us because we prop up dictators that in turn oppress and take away freedom from them

shades of gray son, shades of gray

Give me a break. The religion says we are infidels and that is why they hate us. The fact they always are ruled by dictators is another product of there ****ed up religion.