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SonOfLe-loLang
02-08-2011, 05:44 PM
True, I still believe they will work it out before the deadline

I agree. Ted Bartlett mentioned this the other day and i agree: they pretty much both know whats definitely gonna happen and what isnt. From here on in, its posturing. I never figured the players were THAT strongly against playing 2 more football games, but if they make a stink like its the end of the world, they can negotiate more out of the owners for other things they want (more player jobs, better benefits)

RaiderH8r
02-08-2011, 06:20 PM
Orton definitely has to go. Way too much money to be paying a drunken benchwarmer. I don't the thought of Quinn as the plan B but that Orton money needs to be put to good use. More than that, if Orton can get us a day 1 pick (the old day one) or two all the better.

strafen
02-08-2011, 09:24 PM
Yes.

Tebow performed well as a rookie while many proclaimed (even many here on the OM) that he wasn't ready to play. Is he going to progress and be the long term answer at QB? I don't know. But I do know Orton is not.

Tebow should get a chance to start next year and see how he performs. If he bombs, Denver moves on and looks for another solution.

Nothing is lost by "losing" Orton in a trade. He is irrelevant to Denver's future, except hopefully for the pick we receive in return.I think he performed well enough that even his mechanical "flaws" were unnoticeable.

So, in my mind he earned a shot to compete for the starting job.
I think his biggest hurdle will be playing under center and be comfortable doing it.
His "accuracy" will improve by getting his timing down with his receivers in 3-4 or 7 step-drops.
I think his problem is not putting the ball where it needs to be -think he made some amazing throws- his timing is.
It will be a whole different ball game once he starts getting reps with the 1st team, with all the starters.

His mechanics will be a job in progress, but I doubt they will affect his game.
He'll be tenfold better

RaiderH8r
02-09-2011, 09:43 AM
I think he performed well enough that even his mechanical "flaws" were unnoticeable.

So, in my mind he earned a shot to compete for the starting job.
I think his biggest hurdle will be playing under center and be comfortable doing it.
His "accuracy" will improve by getting his timing down with his receivers in 3-4 or 7 step-drops.
I think his problem is not putting the ball where it needs to be -think he made some amazing throws- his timing is.
It will be a whole different ball game once he starts getting reps with the 1st team, with all the starters.

His mechanics will be a job in progress, but I doubt they will affect his game.
He'll be tenfold better

Unless and until his mechanics become a problem I really don't have an interest in them. Christ, Phillys Rivers throws the ball like some bastard offspring of Uncle Rico and RuPaul but he gets the ball where it needs to be and makes plays.

Tebow's commitment to the game, to his team and to his improvement is undisputed. Why people seem to think he won't get problems fixed or is missing some measurable is beyond me. The guy wins. He makes the guys around him better. He's a competitor and he'll wake up living and breathing Broncos football as long as he wears the uniform. Who the hell could ask for anything more than that out of the guy? Hell yeah I'll take Tebow's 3 wins this year against Orton's 7 because Orton's 7 wins represents the pinnacle, the top, the acme of what Orton can do. He can never produce more and be a better player. He's hit his peak. Tebow isn't even close and has committed himself entirely to pushing himself as far as he can go. Orton is who we thought he is...a check down fetal machine.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-09-2011, 10:07 AM
Unless and until his mechanics become a problem I really don't have an interest in them. Christ, Phillys Rivers throws the ball like some bastard offspring of Uncle Rico and RuPaul but he gets the ball where it needs to be and makes plays.

Tebow's commitment to the game, to his team and to his improvement is undisputed. Why people seem to think he won't get problems fixed or is missing some measurable is beyond me. The guy wins. He makes the guys around him better. He's a competitor and he'll wake up living and breathing Broncos football as long as he wears the uniform. Who the hell could ask for anything more than that out of the guy? Hell yeah I'll take Tebow's 3 wins this year against Orton's 7 because Orton's 7 wins represents the pinnacle, the top, the acme of what Orton can do. He can never produce more and be a better player. He's hit his peak. Tebow isn't even close and has committed himself entirely to pushing himself as far as he can go. Orton is who we thought he is...a check down fetal machine.

So much ignorance in one post. Incredible.

The reason some question Tebow's release point, windup, etc., is because those were things he was working on prior to the draft last year, and all of them reverted back during those last three games. It wasn't a big problem, but if his windup isn't shortened, it will be an issue as defenses catch on.

You mention Rivers, but Rivers' throwing motion is strange not because of how slowly the ball comes out, but because of how quickly it comes out. He fires from the shoulder, which sort of looks like a shot put throw. And I agree that it's ugly. But it's so quick a defensive back can't get a step ahead once Rivers starts his motion.

Tebow's is the opposite. Tebow looks downfield, and when he spots his man, he starts his windup, and it simply takes too long. This, again, was an issue coming into the season. At the season's end, it was still a problem. And while I think he has all the intangibles you want, and while I hope against hope that his intangibles will turn him into a great NFL quarterback for us, I think there's more than enough evidence to worry that it's a 50/50 proposition at best.

gyldenlove
02-09-2011, 10:28 AM
I agree. Ted Bartlett mentioned this the other day and i agree: they pretty much both know whats definitely gonna happen and what isnt. From here on in, its posturing. I never figured the players were THAT strongly against playing 2 more football games, but if they make a stink like its the end of the world, they can negotiate more out of the owners for other things they want (more player jobs, better benefits)

I think what they are against is playing 2 more games without getting more money. There is no doubt that the owners main concern right now is the money, so if the owners can add 2 more games and keep salaries the same as now that is effectively lowering the salary cap. I really don't think it is playing the games the players care much about, it is getting paid to do so.

RaiderH8r
02-09-2011, 11:10 AM
So much ignorance in one post. Incredible.

The reason some question Tebow's release point, windup, etc., is because those were things he was working on prior to the draft last year, and all of them reverted back during those last three games. It wasn't a big problem, but if his windup isn't shortened, it will be an issue as defenses catch on.

You mention Rivers, but Rivers' throwing motion is strange not because of how slowly the ball comes out, but because of how quickly it comes out. He fires from the shoulder, which sort of looks like a shot put throw. And I agree that it's ugly. But it's so quick a defensive back can't get a step ahead once Rivers starts his motion.

Tebow's is the opposite. Tebow looks downfield, and when he spots his man, he starts his windup, and it simply takes too long. This, again, was an issue coming into the season. At the season's end, it was still a problem. And while I think he has all the intangibles you want, and while I hope against hope that his intangibles will turn him into a great NFL quarterback for us, I think there's more than enough evidence to worry that it's a 50/50 proposition at best.

Listen Kyle, I know you like it in Denver. It's a great town. But it's time for you to go. There's more value to the "Elusive" (that kills me. The only thing that Kyle's eluded is sobriety) Kyle Orton on the trade market than as a QB who has peaked at mediocrity.

What Tebow can work on is looking off defenders, not locking on that guy down field. Finding his timing with the receivers, shortening his throwing motion all of that. I have no doubt that he will work it and it will come together for him. Rivers' throwing motion was a knock against him when he came out. The best way to shut down criticism is to succeed. I'll take a gamble on a guy like Tebow when "sure" things like JaMarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf, Jeff George, Todd Marinovich, and the countless other QBs that had textbook mechanics, million dollar bodies, but couldn't give two ****s about commitment, personal accountability, or the mental aspect of the game. Jimmy Claussen was the most "pro ready" QB to come out of the draft. How did he do? I'll take a guy with physical talent with some quirks and rough edges with a burning desire to kick the ever loving **** out of anybody across from him over the guy with all the text book mechanics in the world. Can't teach the latter guy **** because he knows everything...and he's more than happy to let the world know his **** don't stink.