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spdirty
02-06-2011, 09:13 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17306782

DALLAS Fixing the Broncos begins with psychotherapy.

The team revamped its front office with John Elway and Brian Xanders. John Fox, a proven commodity, is Denver's new head coach, and there is comfort in familiarity.

Yet among those who care deeply about the Broncos, there are buried hostilities about how the team got in this mess. And that animosity must be released before cool, calculated planning can be advanced.

"I can't believe how one guy, Josh McDaniels, was able to ruin such a great franchise in such a short time," former Broncos linebacker Bill Romanowski said.

"I would like to say they can turn it around as quick as McDaniels messed it up," said former Denver tight end Shannon Sharpe, selected to the NFL Hall of Fame on Saturday. "But I'm not sure that's possible."Read more: Denver franchise now a fixer-upper - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17306782#ixzz1DF7pByuH
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse



Kind of a solid column except for the comment about his opinion that Champ is as good as gone and the notion that they need to trade down and take Prince Amukamura. That would suck. :(

SoCalBronco
02-06-2011, 09:16 PM
"Yet among those who care deeply about the Broncos, there are buried hostilities about how the team got in this mess."


The hostilities are hardly buried.

BroncoSojia
02-06-2011, 09:26 PM
It's amazing that even former players acknowledge how bad Josh ****ed up our franchise yet certain fans still try to make excuses for him.

I hope that arrogant egotistical POS has nothing but failure for the rest of his career after the **** he pulled here.

Kaylore
02-06-2011, 09:32 PM
I'm still not convinced we are "that jacked up" at all. Lloyd > Marshall. Scheffler isn't anything to write home about. Hillis being traded for the biggest vagina in football next to Colt McCoy sucks. Of course Jhiz will come here and tell everyone how awesome Quitler is but the fact is he's a loser and quitter. So with an OK Orton and Tebow, we're not looking at an empty cupboard there.

McDaniels' problems were how terrible in the draft room he was and how he literally allowed Belichick to butt rape him on every trade. The things that pissed me off most about McDaniels were the enormous blown opportunities on draft day and the smaller personnel moves, like throwing money at a long snapper who can do literally nothing else at the expense of a better long snapper who has soft hands and is a good gunner. Those mistakes are what set our franchise back. I still maintain if firing Shanahan meant getting rid of Slowik, it was all worth it.

bronco0608
02-06-2011, 09:33 PM
Add two impact dlinemen to the team like Dummervil and Fairley, and I believe we are a top 15 defense, easily.

I don't believe we are talentless on the defensive side of the ball, but when you are last in the league in sacks and against the run, its hard to stop anyone.

With those two guys, they address our two biggest needs.

Are corners with champ are good.
Our safeties are average at best, depending if McBath can develop.
Our linebackers are average at best. Should address the position in round two.
Our Dline would be crucial though.

Prediction: 15th in the league in points given up next year.

DarkHorse30
02-06-2011, 10:19 PM
I knew it was Klis. He should "report" more and "opine" less

Fixing the Broncos

The Broncos can improve considerably in 2011 and still fall short. Here's a five-step look at how their turnaround should begin:
1. A-one, and a-two, and a-three . . .
The Broncos have three of the top 46 picks in the NFL's April 28-30 draft No. 2, No. 36 and No. 46. They should trade back from No. 2 and pick up an extra second-round pick. They would have four of the top 50 picks. They must get at least two immediate starters from this draft and two more who will be ready by season's end.
Getting 2 starters out of 2011 draft would equal one less starter/rooks than they had this year. The holes at Safety, NT and TE could equal 3 starters no matter who we pick. Trading down is a great option at #2 pick, but only if we get enough for it. I'd rather take Peterson, especially since the rookie cap would help us in a huge way. What better year to pick in the top 2?

2. Tebow or bust
New coach John Fox doesn't understand Tebowmania. No one does until they have experienced firsthand. Fox's honeymoon will be short if he doesn't play QB Tim Tebow. Even if Tebow doesn't work out, the Broncos can't move forward until they find out.
Fox visited Tebow at the combine, and was coaching not too far away from Florida. I think he understands him perfectly fine. And....by the way... Fox is about the defense. If he plays Jake Delhomme for years and years, he's not going to worry about a QB like Tebow "ruining" his team. There's a lot more upside to Tebow than most sportswriters will admit. Klis is repeating media tebow talk without even considering what he looked like in the last 3 weeks after being thrown in to start. More points for Tebow in his 2nd and 3rd starts than for Orton in his last two. And a pretty good QB rating.

3. Deal with Champ
It doesn't make financial sense for the Broncos to place a $15 million franchise tag on cornerback Champ Bailey. They haven't talked contract with him since breaking off negotiations in November, an indication the 10-time Pro Bowler will be allowed to test the market. Once there, Bailey goes for his best chance at the Vince Lombardi Trophy. Trading back in the draft and selecting Nebraska cornerback Prince Amukamara becomes a possibility.
Champ coined 13M last year. Is 15M such a stretch? He's a valuable player and can help the team win. How can you not see the value in maybe moving Champ to safety next year or the year after? The guy is a tackling machine, that you want on your team, even at an elevated price. We never use the franchise tag. I can't see Bailey going to another team to "get a SB with someone that's better". Keep the GOOD guys, Mike.

4. Keep Elvis healthy
.

....by doing what? Brillliant strategy. Why couldn't this bullet point be "win 13 games", instead.

5. Run, baby, run
Whether it's the return of LenDale White or someone else, the Broncos need a big back and a two- way tight end. To bring Tebow along, the Broncos have to run the ball at least 20 times a game. That doesn't include Tebow runs

We do need a TE target......and some OL with a little more bite. A legit OL coach and maybe a FA OL vet will help our RBs a lot more than bringing in a big back. Knowshon will be fine.


http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17306782#ixzz1DFCxfpt4
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Ratboy
02-06-2011, 10:41 PM
Lloyd > Marshall.

Keep on thinking that.

scttgrd
02-06-2011, 11:29 PM
Keep on thinking that.

I have a bad feeling about Lloyd, never give the guy a big contract.

Archer81
02-06-2011, 11:36 PM
McDaniels didnt detroy the franchise in 18 or whatever months it was. The team had woodrot before he got here. It actually speaks volumes to Shanahan's game day coaching ability. The facts are, 30+ players Shanny had on our roster are not playing in the NFL now.

For what ever the reason or cause or ridiculousness of players being shipped out or in, the team was due for a rough patch. If Shanahan was Augustus, McDaniels is the Caligula of Denver coaches. This naturally can be said with a great deal of hindsight. I was wrong about McDaniel's ability to maximize the talent he had on hand. He really needed a GM and Bowlen needed a killswitch on the phone every time Josh dialed a NE area code. But that's life.

Green Bay is proof positive that you build a consistent winner through the draft, supplementing with key free agents. Hint, Dove Valley.

:Broncos:

scttgrd
02-06-2011, 11:44 PM
McDaniels took a team in transition with a boatload of picks to the cellar. If you build a solid team through the draft, he not only failed, he tanked in a spectacular way.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-06-2011, 11:51 PM
McDaniels took a team in transition with a boatload of picks to the cellar. If you build a solid team through the draft, he not only failed, he tanked in a spectacular way.

It is ENTIRELY too early to say this. For one, the 2010 might very well be a good one. In fact, the 09 draft may save face. The broncos werent horrible because of their recent drafts. They were horrible because we never properly fixed a terrible defense.

Archer81
02-06-2011, 11:55 PM
It is ENTIRELY too early to say this. For one, the 2010 might very well be a good one. In fact, the 09 draft may save face. The broncos werent horrible because of their recent drafts. They were horrible because we never properly fixed a terrible defense.


Keep in mind Sctt believes Tebow sucks because he is Christian and vocal about it. Kind of skews his view on the player's abilities.


:Broncos:

scttgrd
02-07-2011, 12:03 AM
Keep in mind Sctt believes Tebow sucks because he is Christian and vocal about it. Kind of skews his view on the player's abilities.


:Broncos:

No, I can't stand the guy because of his beliefs. But worse, he is a lousy NFL QB. I will stand by that opinion. His Beliefs just make it easier to laugh at him.

SoCalBronco
02-07-2011, 12:28 AM
He really needed a GM and Bowlen needed a killswitch on the phone every time Josh dialed a NE area code.

This sage advice should have been communicated to the old man after the first couple times we tried to involve NE in something, but Joe Ellis was apparently asleep at the wheel and Xanders simply lacks the requisite amount of sack required to anything of that nature (no surprise there).

SoCalBronco
02-07-2011, 12:29 AM
No, I can't stand the guy because of his beliefs. But worse, he is a lousy NFL QB. I will stand by that opinion. His Beliefs just make it easier to laugh at him.

You can't stand him because of his beliefs? What happened to tolerance? No one here went out of their way to rag on Ryan Harris for his beliefs, why shouldn't the same courtesy be extended to Tebow? He's a lousy QB? He's a raw rookie who made far more plays than anyone expected.

And he never lined up behind the guard, either.

scttgrd
02-07-2011, 12:38 AM
You can't stand him because of his beliefs? What happened to tolerance? No one here went out of their way to rag on Ryan Harris for his beliefs, why shouldn't the same courtesy be extended to Tebow? He's a lousy QB? He's a raw rookie who made far more plays than anyone expected.

And he never lined up behind the guard, either.

I can only speak about what I see, I don't see Tebow being the answer. As far as Mr. focus on the family, I have a hard spot for that group. Anyone that can justify genocide, I will always oppose.

Killericon
02-07-2011, 01:00 AM
I'm still not convinced we are "that jacked up" at all. Lloyd > Marshall. Scheffler isn't anything to write home about. Hillis being traded for the biggest vagina in football next to Colt McCoy sucks. Of course Jhiz will come here and tell everyone how awesome Quitler is but the fact is he's a loser and quitter. So with an OK Orton and Tebow, we're not looking at an empty cupboard there.

McDaniels' problems were how terrible in the draft room he was and how he literally allowed Belichick to butt rape him on every trade. The things that pissed me off most about McDaniels were the enormous blown opportunities on draft day and the smaller personnel moves, like throwing money at a long snapper who can do literally nothing else at the expense of a better long snapper who has soft hands and is a good gunner. Those mistakes are what set our franchise back. I still maintain if firing Shanahan meant getting rid of Slowik, it was all worth it.

I don't think McDaniels' issues were in the draft room. Moreno, Tebow, Thomas, Ayers, Beadles, Walton, Decker, and Cox is a perfectly fine haul from 2 drafts.

I think McDaniels' arrogance led to the Nolan split, which was the beginning of the end. I think that people make too big a deal out of the Maroney and the Paxton deals just cause they were with Belicheck. I think the Hillis and Smith trades blew, of course, but I could've forgiven them.

For me, it begins and ends with the departure of Mike Nolan. McDaniels could've been great, and I think he will be one day, for someone else.

Keep on thinking that.

Maybe he's not better, but Marshall certainly wasn't worth that contract he got. We get another year of Lloyd for pennies while Miami gave up those picks and that huge contract for what, exactly?

I can only speak about what I see, I don't see Tebow being the answer. As far as Mr. focus on the family, I have a hard spot for that group. Anyone that can justify genocide, I will always oppose.

Genocide? What?

Mogulseeker
02-07-2011, 01:02 AM
Add two impact dlinemen to the team like Dummervil and Fairley, and I believe we are a top 15 defense, easily.

I don't believe we are talentless on the defensive side of the ball, but when you are last in the league in sacks and against the run, its hard to stop anyone.

With those two guys, they address our two biggest needs.

Are corners with champ are good.
Our safeties are average at best, depending if McBath can develop.
Our linebackers are average at best. Should address the position in round two.
Our Dline would be crucial though.

Prediction: 15th in the league in points given up next year.

I might put our linebackers at above average... and corners above average, not good.

enjolras
02-07-2011, 01:20 AM
I might put our linebackers at above average... and corners above average, not good.

I agree. I think we actually have a pretty nice set of linebackers in both the 3-4 and 4-3 (although I'm less sold on the group in the 4-3 as there is no apparent MLB in the group).

The assessment that our safeties are 'average at best' is being WAY to kind. Our safety situation is definitely the worst it's been since I've been alive. I can't imagine that anyone has a weaker set of safeties than we do. I don't think there is a single keeper in the bunch. Maybe McBath, but he can't stay healthy enough for us to see anything at all from him.

I think our corners are pretty damn good.

Our defensive line issues are well known. In the 4-3 I think we have some bright spots on the ends... but we BADLY need some muscle in the middle. That's the real problem. All of the spots up the middle are weaknesses.

- We have nothing at defensive tackle (in the 4-3) and definitely no one to play nose-guard (3-4).

- We don't have a middle linebacker in the 4-3 on the team. I feel a lot better in the 3-4 with Mays/Williams in the middle.

- We have nothing at safety.

Our edges are in much better shape. Champ/Cox/Goodman/Thompson is a really nice rotation. Dumervil and Ayers are going to be a nice combo on the ends.

It's still going to be really hard to imagine that this can be fixed in a single draft. The defense is just terrible up the middle.

PTC
02-07-2011, 02:07 AM
I would like to believe he screwed up the franchise. At the end of the day, you point your fingers at Pat Bowlen...

Anytime you take over a roster where 28, 29 players are cut and are no longer playing for any NFL team.... was the franchise really not ruined before you got there? Tell me, if the franchise was such in great condition before we hired a new coach, why did we hire one anyways? Especially one that would change the WHOLE culture of the franchise? They obviously knew this when they were interviewing and knew where he was coming from. Getting a new GM..etc...

Anyways, the offense has a solid foundation to it right now, but that obviously has more to do with how Tebow develops. I can't really say that he screwed anything up based on the defense, I mean it was **** when he got there and it is **** now, with possibly a bit more talent. It's obvious that it was a schematic issue which caused such a huge difference in the defense from last year... we got a solid NT and a BETTER dline from the previous year with the same secondary. Jamal williams actually played really well this season.

If you think you're going to win SB's with players like Cutler and Marshall on your squad, please look at the super bowl teams in the past X years...

You should ask yourselves, if you could undo the Cutler trade (which would mean Orton, Tebow, and Demaryius Thomas etc would not be here) and undo the Marshall trade (which would mean Lloyd not here, Thomas, + our 2nd this year)...would you really do it?

If you're answer is yes, then you're also saying that yes, I would like 2 players with personalities that do not fall in line with the type of players that have participated in the past super bowls...

footstepsfrom#27
02-07-2011, 03:22 AM
They weren't that great before the little corporal got here either.

cutthemdown
02-07-2011, 04:02 AM
Broncos were in pretty bad shape when Mcdaniels took over but he did set them back at least 2-3 yrs. If we get lucky and hit on some draft picks this yr, and next yr, don't lose Champ, Doom comes back strong, hit on some FA we can compete again.

Any Bronco fans who want to think a good draft, some fa moves, can make us win next year I will have to disagree. That would be great but the reality is the defense has maybe 4-5 starters on it. The offensive line isn't settled. Clady didn't play very well coming off his injury, harris either. Kuper either for that matter. The new players Walton and Beadles are still unproven. We need TE, RB, and our qb is either not that athletic, or needs a lot of work, depending who you go with.

The coaching staff is new and will need a couple years to get things going.

So many things really to fix no way it can happen in one offseason. Especially if we have a work stoppage.

oubronco
02-07-2011, 09:23 AM
No, I can't stand the guy because of his beliefs. But worse, he is a lousy NFL QB. I will stand by that opinion. His Beliefs just make it easier to laugh at him.

God Bless You :sunshine:

Tombstone RJ
02-07-2011, 09:27 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17306782

Read more: Denver franchise now a fixer-upper - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17306782#ixzz1DF7pByuH
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse



Kind of a solid column except for the comment about his opinion that Champ is as good as gone and the notion that they need to trade down and take Prince Amukamura. That would suck. :(

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Josh McD is the convinient scape goat for the cluster pink puppy belli that is the Broncos and the cluster started with Shanahan and his terrible team management. It started with Pat Bowlen stepping away and letting Shanny run the entire operation with no checks and balances.

Josh is just the sacrificial lamb.

gunns
02-07-2011, 09:30 AM
Add two impact dlinemen to the team like Dummervil and Fairley, and I believe we are a top 15 defense, easily.

I don't believe we are talentless on the defensive side of the ball, but when you are last in the league in sacks and against the run, its hard to stop anyone.

With those two guys, they address our two biggest needs.

Are corners with champ are good.

Our safeties are average at best, depending if McBath can develop.
Our linebackers are average at best. Should address the position in round two.
Our Dline would be crucial though.

Prediction: 15th in the league in points given up next year.

Did you see the SB yesterday? GB has a great DL, some great LB and when those corners went out they struggled. Our corners are not good, even with Champ. They don't throw his way. And we've been saying the same thing about our safeties since Atwater left. Keep saying that and we will remain the same. I'm all for going DL immediately but fail to address those other areas and you are going to have a slightly better D.

enjolras
02-07-2011, 09:33 AM
Any Bronco fans who want to think a good draft, some fa moves, can make us win next year I will have to disagree. That would be great but the reality is the defense has maybe 4-5 starters on it. The offensive line isn't settled. Clady didn't play very well coming off his injury, harris either. Kuper either for that matter. The new players Walton and Beadles are still unproven. We need TE, RB, and our qb is either not that athletic, or needs a lot of work, depending who you go with.

That gives me some optimism, really. I don't think Clady, Harris, and Kuper all simply forgot how to play football this year. I think we had some real issues in terms of scheme and coaching. I think Beadles is going to be a HUGE player for us. At his natural position (guard) he was a beast. Best run blocker on the team for my eye. Walton is really the only question mark that I have, and I saw enough from him to think that he'll develop into a really nice player.

The coaching staff is new and will need a couple years to get things going.

So many things really to fix no way it can happen in one offseason. Especially if we have a work stoppage.

A work stoppage might be the best possible thing for this team really. I really do think the 2010 Broncos were an 8 win team reduced by injury to 4. Any extra time to get Clady, Harris, Thomas, Dumervil, etc... back to full strength and away from the rigors of the NFL can only be a good thing for this team.

WolfpackGuy
02-07-2011, 09:46 AM
I love the spin by some.

McClueless was an awful coach and an even worse valuer of talent.

11-17 with 3 (damn near 4) separate 4-game losing streaks sprinkled in there while addressing hardly any of the team needs when he took the job can't really be defended.

Besides, he couldn't even cheat and knock off a 1 win Niners team!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-07-2011, 10:38 AM
It's amazing that even former players acknowledge how bad Josh ****ed up our franchise yet certain fans still try to make excuses for him.

I hope that arrogant egotistical POS has nothing but failure for the rest of his career after the **** he pulled here.

Ironic coming from a guy with Tebow as his avatar.

jhns
02-07-2011, 10:41 AM
Ironic coming from a guy with Tebow as his avatar.

Spoken like a true McDaniels fan.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-07-2011, 10:42 AM
Spoken like a true McDaniels fan.

Spoken like a true moron with nothing to say.

You don't find it ironic that people claim McDaniels didn't make a single move to be happy about, yet celebrate the arrival of Tim Tebow in the organization as if it happened in a vacuum?

Of course you don't. You're a dip****.

jhns
02-07-2011, 10:46 AM
Spoken like a true moron with nothing to say.

You don't find it ironic that people claim McDaniels didn't make a single move to be happy about, yet celebrate the arrival of Tim Tebow in the organization as if it happened in a vacuum?

Of course you don't. You're a dip****.

What part of the post you quoted says that McDaniels didn't make a single good move. Since when was a single good move evidence that a coach/GM didn't f a franchise?

Again, you are a typical McDaniels fan. You are never able to make sense.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-07-2011, 10:49 AM
What part of the post you quoted says that McDaniels didn't make a single good move. Since when was a single good move evidence that a coach/GM didn't f a franchise?

Again, you are a typical McDaniels fan. You are never able to make sense.

Yeah, you're right. Wishing the man nothing but failure "after the **** he pulled here" doesn't allude to disliking all the man's moves at all, does it?

Christ, you're stupid.

You can play with yourself. I'm not going to help you turn this into yet ANOTHER derailed jhns thread special that the sackless mods do nothing about.

spdirty
02-07-2011, 10:51 AM
I don't think McDaniels' issues were in the draft room. Moreno, Tebow, Thomas, Ayers, Beadles, Walton, Decker, and Cox is a perfectly fine haul from 2 drafts.

You don't know that. Moreno has been a failure his first 2 years, especially considering where we drafted him.

Tebow, I have high hopes for him but the jury is still very much out on him.

Thomas showed a few flashes and you could see his talent but nobody knows if he was a hit because he couldn't stay on the field.

Ayers showed nearly nothing his rookie year and a couple flashes before getting hurt. Still a big ? mark there, especially considering we passed on Clay Matthews to take him.

Beadles and Walton were not ready to start, and considering the pressure almost always came up the middle, the jury is still way out there for them.

Decker has shown me almost nothing his rookie year. A few nice catches but nobody knows if he can be consistent.

And Cox? Well, might never play again but OK.

I'd say Squid was a great value pick.

You don't know. You cannot assume every player we have will develop into something great and say that we had 2 good drafts.

jhns
02-07-2011, 10:53 AM
Yeah, you're right. Wishing the man nothing but failure "after the **** he pulled here" doesn't allude to disliking all the man's moves at all, does it?

Christ, you're stupid.

You can play with yourself. I'm not going to help you turn this into yet ANOTHER derailed jhns thread special that the sackless mods do nothing about.

LOL

Way to prove what I said. McDaniels fans make it too easy.

Archer81
02-07-2011, 10:57 AM
You don't know that. Moreno has been a failure his first 2 years, especially considering where we drafted him.

Tebow, I have high hopes for him but the jury is still very much out on him.

Thomas showed a few flashes and you could see his talent but nobody knows if he was a hit because he couldn't stay on the field.

Ayers showed nearly nothing his rookie year and a couple flashes before getting hurt. Still a big ? mark there, especially considering we passed on Clay Matthews to take him.

Beadles and Walton were not ready to start, and considering the pressure almost always came up the middle, the jury is still way out there for them.

Decker has shown me almost nothing his rookie year. A few nice catches but nobody knows if he can be consistent.

And Cox? Well, might never play again but OK.

I'd say Squid was a great value pick.

You don't know. You cannot assume every player we have will develop into something great and say that we had 2 good drafts.


That cuts both ways. We have a good idea about the 09 and 10 picks. Its still too early to tell for most of them.

:Broncos:

spdirty
02-07-2011, 10:59 AM
That cuts both ways. We have a good idea about the 09 and 10 picks. Its still too early to tell for most of them.

:Broncos:

Yeah, it does. Its pretty stupid to assume that any of those guys will be either hits or busts. And even though I despise the fact that he's on our team, Moreno needs at least a decent line to run behind before you can see what he is.

Missouribronc
02-07-2011, 11:03 AM
You don't know that. Moreno has been a failure his first 2 years, especially considering where we drafted him.

Tebow, I have high hopes for him but the jury is still very much out on him.

Thomas showed a few flashes and you could see his talent but nobody knows if he was a hit because he couldn't stay on the field.

Ayers showed nearly nothing his rookie year and a couple flashes before getting hurt. Still a big ? mark there, especially considering we passed on Clay Matthews to take him.

Beadles and Walton were not ready to start, and considering the pressure almost always came up the middle, the jury is still way out there for them.

Decker has shown me almost nothing his rookie year. A few nice catches but nobody knows if he can be consistent.

And Cox? Well, might never play again but OK.

I'd say Squid was a great value pick.

You don't know. You cannot assume every player we have will develop into something great and say that we had 2 good drafts.

I pretty much agree on all. They are projects, except one (and the passing on Clay Matthews thing...he was passed up 25 times...but I won't get into that, that's not the point of this thread).

How can a Top 20 back be a failure? He was, if memory serves, the 20th best all-purpose player in the game. How is that failure? Because he was picked at 12?

So a top 20 back picked in the second round is a success, but a top 20 back picked in the Top 15 is a failure? I just don't understand that logic at all.

If all of those picks work out, you can't label McDaniels as a complete failure as far as draft pick acquisition. His free agency moves were atrocious, outside of Lloyd, imo. I think he was so-so on the trades.

Breck Bronc
02-07-2011, 02:26 PM
It's the 2009 draft that was the beginning of the end for McDaniels.

The Packers had two 1st rounders and got two studs in Raji & Matthews. Now they're Super Bowl champs. Though it's funny that the rest of Green Bay's 2009 draft was pretty bad.

Denver couldn't have taken Raji, but they could have had 2 of Orakpo, Cushing and Matthews.

The Moreno pick at 12 is and was ridiculous. Knowshown isn't physically talented enough to be taken that high. Never mind the fact that RB wasn't a huge position of need and RB has become an easy position to fill outside of the 1st round. LeSean McCoy or Shonn Greene could have been had with one of our 3 2nd rounders.

And we shouldn't have had 3 second rounders to begin with. The Alphonso Smith and Richard Quinn trade-ups were not smart in any way.

Except for Clay Matthews turning into an NFL Defensive Player of the Year-type player, many Bronco fans saw how bad the '09 draft was that very weekend. I was livid and lost faith in McDaniels at that point.

Atwater His Ass
02-07-2011, 03:23 PM
I So a top 20 back picked in the second round is a success, but a top 20 back picked in the Top 15 is a failure? I just don't understand that logic at all.



Really? How can you not understand that more is expected from high draft picks? It's not a linear scale from pick 1 to pick 32 to pick 64. I would think any football fan would know this.

FireFly
02-07-2011, 03:23 PM
I can only speak about what I see, I don't see Tebow being the answer. As far as Mr. focus on the family, I have a hard spot for that group. Anyone that can justify genocide, I will always oppose.

Smacks of ignorance and intolerance

OrangenBlueOhio
02-07-2011, 03:31 PM
Just because our newly elected HOF'er, plus Mr. steroids, and oh yeah just about every person who offers thier opinion on the NFL, says Mcego destroyed our franchise doesn't make it true. The guys on the Orange Mane know a lot more than they do.

Tombstone RJ
02-07-2011, 03:32 PM
It's the 2009 draft that was the beginning of the end for McDaniels.

The Packers had two 1st rounders and got two studs in Raji & Matthews. Now they're Super Bowl champs. Though it's funny that the rest of Green Bay's 2009 draft was pretty bad.

Denver couldn't have taken Raji, but they could have had 2 of Orakpo, Cushing and Matthews.

The Moreno pick at 12 is and was ridiculous. Knowshown isn't physically talented enough to be taken that high. Never mind the fact that RB wasn't a huge position of need and RB has become an easy position to fill outside of the 1st round. LeSean McCoy or Shonn Greene could have been had with one of our 3 2nd rounders.

And we shouldn't have had 3 second rounders to begin with. The Alphonso Smith and Richard Quinn trade-ups were not smart in any way.

Except for Clay Matthews turning into an NFL Defensive Player of the Year-type player, many Bronco fans saw how bad the '09 draft was that very weekend. I was livid and lost faith in McDaniels at that point.

Pardon me for highlighting your revisionist history. Knowshon Moreno was the highest rated RB in the entire draft. Everyone thought he was as close to a "sure thing" at the RB position as you could get. Taking him at #12 was not rediculous, in fact, it was a safe move by the Broncos.

Simply because Moreno hasn't panned out the way we ALL expected, does not mean that McD was an idiot for taking the kid at that spot.

oubronco
02-07-2011, 03:40 PM
It kinda was in that we needed defense badly

Tombstone RJ
02-07-2011, 03:46 PM
It kinda was in that we needed defense badly

Should the Broncos have taken Moreno at 12, that is debatable. Was Moreno the best player available at 12, that is pretty much not debatable. Moreno was the highest rated RB in the entire draft.

FireFly
02-07-2011, 04:11 PM
I pretty much agree on all. They are projects, except one (and the passing on Clay Matthews thing...he was passed up 25 times...but I won't get into that, that's not the point of this thread).

How can a Top 20 back be a failure? He was, if memory serves, the 20th best all-purpose player in the game. How is that failure? Because he was picked at 12?

So a top 20 back picked in the second round is a success, but a top 20 back picked in the Top 15 is a failure? I just don't understand that logic at all.

If all of those picks work out, you can't label McDaniels as a complete failure as far as draft pick acquisition. His free agency moves were atrocious, outside of Lloyd, imo. I think he was so-so on the trades.


I agree with this. If Moreno becomes a solid starter than he can't be a failure imo. If he doesn't become one of the better backs in the league than I think that the pick becomes a failed pick. And that failing is not with the player but rather the man who made the pick.

I don't think we quite know what we have with our picks over the last 2 years. Until we have a few more pieces in place it's hard to say. I still have high hopes for most of our picks; especially Decker and our O-line.

Breck Bronc
02-07-2011, 05:47 PM
Pardon me for highlighting your revisionist history. Knowshon Moreno was the highest rated RB in the entire draft. Everyone thought he was as close to a "sure thing" at the RB position as you could get. Taking him at #12 was not rediculous, in fact, it was a safe move by the Broncos.

Simply because Moreno hasn't panned out the way we ALL expected, does not mean that McD was an idiot for taking the kid at that spot.Sure, he was the highest ranked back in an extremely weak class of RB's in an era when running back has become a dime-a-dozen position.

James Starks (undrafted), Pierre Thomas (undrafted), Mike Bell (undrafted), Willie Parker (undrafted), Brandon Jacobs (4th), Derrick Ward (7th), Dominic Rhodes (undrafted) are the type of running backs that are getting the carries for Super Bowl champions.

It's not revisionist history to complain about the Moreno pick. A ton of people complained about it in April '09 and rightfully so. A team with a historically bad defense shouldn't be picking running back at #12 overall, especially when that team rarely (ever?) drafted a RB in the 1st round.

Knowshown would have been a safe pick around where Donald Brown was drafted. He's solid if unspectacular in a lot of areas (except health). You don't draft for solid that high at running back. You take a spectacular player like Peterson (7th overall) or explosive like Chris Johnson (24th). Moreno at 12 was stupid, one of many reasons McDaniels was a disaster.

PTC
02-07-2011, 06:02 PM
Knowshown would have been a safe pick around where Donald Brown was drafted. He's solid if unspectacular in a lot of areas (except health). You don't draft for solid that high at running back. You take a spectacular player like Peterson (7th overall) or explosive like Chris Johnson (24th). Moreno at 12 was stupid, one of many reasons McDaniels was a disaster.

Moreno was healthy in college. Chris Johnson would never have been at 24 if people could turn back the clock, it's called hindsight. Clay Matthews got drafted at 24, do you think he would still have gotten drafted there if people could redo the draft?

Moreno at 12 was really not that big of a deal... at the time being, no one really thought Moreno at 12 was a big deal in terms of a reach... it's only people like you who come running after saying you knew all along.

Inkana7
02-07-2011, 06:04 PM
All reports indicated that San Diego would have taken Moreno a few picks later (14?) so its not like it was a reach or anything.

Punisher
02-07-2011, 06:10 PM
All Mr B had to do was hire Spagnuolo and will would be contenders. Nuff Said

Inkana7
02-07-2011, 06:14 PM
All Mr B had to do was hire Spagnuolo and will would be contenders. Nuff Said

http://www.zingerbug.com/Comments/glitter_graphics/go_redskins_finger.gif

Punisher
02-07-2011, 06:17 PM
http://www.zingerbug.com/Comments/glitter_graphics/go_redskins_finger.gif

Aww you hate me don't you?

schaaf
02-07-2011, 06:24 PM
Rashard Mendenhall was drafted in the 1st Round.

Punisher
02-07-2011, 06:27 PM
Rashard Mendenhall was drafted in the 1st Round.

Took Clady over him good pass

spdirty
02-07-2011, 06:41 PM
Moreno was healthy in college. Chris Johnson would never have been at 24 if people could turn back the clock, it's called hindsight. Clay Matthews got drafted at 24, do you think he would still have gotten drafted there if people could redo the draft?

Moreno at 12 was really not that big of a deal... at the time being, no one really thought Moreno at 12 was a big deal in terms of a reach... it's only people like you who come running after saying you knew all along.

My hindsight was as soon as we drafted him I had to take a walk because I was afraid my emotions would have gotten the best of me and I'd have pulled a Garcia.

With all the holes we had on defense, running back was the stupidest thing we could have done, especially when the running back we had, was/is better than the running back we have. Might as well have drafted a kicker. Then when the kicker can't stay healthy and can't kick 50+ yard field goals, the mcfanboys gather round saying "well hindsights 20/20 2 years later."

No. WE DIDN'T NEED A ****ING RUNNING BACK! Man I wish Moreno was a Charger.

Punisher
02-07-2011, 06:49 PM
My hindsight was as soon as we drafted him I had to take a walk because I was afraid my emotions would have gotten the best of me and I'd have pulled a Garcia.

With all the holes we had on defense, running back was the stupidest thing we could have done, especially when the running back we had, was/is better than the running back we have. Might as well have drafted a kicker. Then when the kicker can't stay healthy and can't kick 50+ yard field goals, the mcfanboys gather round saying "well hindsights 20/20 2 years later."

No. WE DIDN'T NEED A ****ING RUNNING BACK! Man I wish Moreno was a Charger.

http://apocalypsecakes.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/winner.jpg

It's called being "Mcdanieled"

Ive also like to point out this brand new website that's doing pretty good

http://www.joshmcdanielssucks.com/