"Multiculturalism Has Failed"

[epicSocialism4tw]

"Frankly, we need a lot less of the passive tolerance of recent years and much more active, muscular liberalism," the prime minister said.

"Let's properly judge these organisations: Do they believe in universal human rights - including for women and people of other faiths? Do they believe in equality of all before the law? Do they believe in democracy and the right of people to elect their own government? Do they encourage integration or separatism?"

"These are the sorts of questions we need to ask. Fail these tests and the presumption should be not to engage with organisations," he added.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994

[epicSocialism4tw]

The quotes belong to David Cameron. More in the article.

[DenverBrit]

It's been failing for decades.

Kudos to Cameron for saying what most politicians avoid, but the voters know to be true.

[chadta]

oh oh oh, can i be the first one to call you a racist

[Garcia Bronco]

On my college campus they had a multicultural center, which I found strange because only certain cultures were represented. Shouldn't they represent all cultures? Shouldn't they call it omnicultural if they want to represent all cultures?

[Odysseus]

UK has different security issues from the United States. Cameron is talking about United Kingdom. Is anybody tracking that?

This is like promoting Arizona law as national policy. I don't think the influx of Mexicans into Maine, for example, is causing them any issues.

The difference between a good idea and utter stupidity is the details.

[Spider]

All i am sayin is , this happened under Obama's watch ......Didnt see this under Junior

[DenverBrit]

UK has different security issues from the United States. Cameron is talking about United Kingdom. Is anybody tracking that?

This is like promoting Arizona law as national policy. I don't think the influx of Mexicans into Maine, for example, is causing them any issues.

The difference between a good idea and utter stupidity is the details.

Exactly. The UK didn't begin an active immigration policy until the 1950's, comparing it to the situation in the US would make no sense.

How the UK goes about fixing the problem and changing attitudes will be interesting.

[epicSocialism4tw]

The UK has some real problems on their hands with the influx of radical Islamists to their country.

This rioting in Egypt has to be making their parliament nervous.

Our people here in America can recognize this sort of problem when they see it (ground zero mosque, resistence to radical extremist groups like La Raza, etc)...Lets hope that we continue to.

[epicSocialism4tw]

This Cameron statement applies to the US as well. We share common philosophies with the UK.

Not everyone believes in the same ideas that we do (natural rights, freedom of religion, press, etc), and some believe in the exact opposite. Sha'ria law and fundamentalist Islam have philosophies that espouse the exact opposite of the ideas I mentioned previously.

[DenverBrit]

The UK has some real problems on their hands with the influx of radical Islamists to their country.

This rioting in Egypt has to be making their parliament nervous.

Our people here in America can recognize this sort of problem when they see it (ground zero mosque, resistence to radical extremist groups like La Raza, etc)...Lets hope that we continue to.

It's making every western democracy nervous.

[epicSocialism4tw]

It's making every western democracy nervous.

Well, beyond what it means in Egypt and the greater Middle East, England and France both have growing Islamic fundamentalist populations.

[JJJ]

Blair, Cameron, seems the Brits got men with values and balls on both sides of the aisle.

[DenverBrit]

Well, beyond what it means in Egypt and the greater Middle East, England and France both have growing Islamic fundamentalist populations.

So does Germany Spain, the US etc.

Fundamentalism/extremism is a curse.......no matter where it comes from.

[epicSocialism4tw]

So does Germany Spain, the US etc.

Fundamentalism/extremism is a curse.......no matter where it comes from.

No. Its not "fundamentalism/extremism" that is the curse. It is a specific type of radical islamic fundamentalism/extremism that is the curse.

[JPPT1974]

That is what makes the world the way it is. Doesn't matter if you are red, yellow, black, white or whatever religion you are. The only race that matters is the human race!

[epicSocialism4tw]

That is what makes the world the way it is. Doesn't matter if you are red, yellow, black, white or whatever religion you are. The only race that matters is the human race!

Thats kind of the problem. It does matter.

People from different cultures have different values and beliefs. When you group them all together, issues of incongruency arise. There are clearly some incongruencies that are deconstructive. Wanting to cut people's hands off if they are caught stealing isnt something that works in Western cultures. Cutting off womens' female parts to prevent them from enjoying sex isnt something that is compatible with Western values.

[DenverBrit]

No. Its not "fundamentalism/extremism" that is the curse. It is a specific type of radical islamic fundamentalism/extremism that is the curse.

All extremism and fundamentalism is a curse, especially when it is forced upon others.

Most in this country don't want to be subjected to it....no matter where it comes from.

Do you??

[Mile High Shack]

brown people scare the **** out of me

[epicSocialism4tw]

All extremism and fundamentalism is a curse, especially when it is forced upon others.

Most in this country don't want to be subjected to it....no matter where it comes from.

Do you??

I dont mind at all. This place is a battlefield of ideas. There is a stipulation though...they have to fit in with the founding document of the nation, and if there is change to the founding document, the change has to be fought out in the battlefield of ideas and filtered up through the political system to the legislature, where it is to be hammered out in its most fundamental form.

Our political system is absolutely brilliant. The forebearers and founders of this country had just freed themselves from oppression and knew what it took to keep it out of their society.

That's why some "fundamentalism/extremism" doesnt work here. It stands in direct opposition of the constitution. Shar'ia law being a prime example. Communism and pure socialism also being examples.

Our democracy exists to bring health to our republic.

[orinjkrush]

cultural/ethnic and religious wars seem to be increasing not decreasing, even with all of the global interactions. from china through russia through africa through europe through australia, ethnic and religious violence seems to be the principle source of angst. i guess it has something to do with how one defines one's self worth.

[DenverBrit]

I dont mind at all. This place is a battlefield of ideas. There is a stipulation though...they have to fit in with the founding document of the nation, and if there is change to the founding document, the change has to be fought out in the battlefield of ideas and filtered up through the political system to the legislature, where it is to be hammered out in its most fundamental form.

Our political system is absolutely brilliant. The forebearers and founders of this country had just freed themselves from oppression and knew what it took to keep it out of their society.

That's why some "fundamentalism/extremism" doesnt work here. It stands in direct opposition of the constitution. Shar'ia law being a prime example. Communism and pure socialism also being examples.

Our democracy exists to bring health to our republic.

So back to my question:

Which form of 'fundamentalism/extremism' are you comfortable having forced upon you?

[epicSocialism4tw]

So back to my question:

Which form of 'fundamentalism/extremism' are you comfortable having forced upon you?

It doesnt matter.

This is America.

What matters is that we do not, under any circumstance move away from the concept of natural rights and the subsequent bill of rights in the constitution.

As long as those things are upheld, the radicalism doesnt matter. Occasionally, radicals like Bill Ayers' Weather Underground, wacked out atheist hyper-libertarians like McVeigh, major extremist religious nutjobs like Major Nadal Hassan and John Allen Muhammed, lefty types that are so far off the map that they kill their own representation (Oswald), etc, pop into existence. But the frequency by which those nutjobs materialize and do their evil work is much less than the frequency of violent crime that is just inherent in communities period.

The way that you deal with that is by having the groups that they somewhat associate with move away from them publicly. You try to have moderate muslims condemning jihad in their communities and reporting those who are a threat to kill other people, you try to have liberal groups identify and distance themselves from groups like the Weather Underground and their modern counterparts like Democracy Now and the New Communists, etc.

[DenverBrit]

It doesnt matter.

This is America.

What matters is that we do not, under any circumstance move away from the concept of natural rights and the subsequent bill of rights in the constitution.

As long as those things are upheld, the radicalism doesnt matter. Occasionally, radicals like Bill Ayers' Weather Underground, wacked out atheist hyper-libertarians like McVeigh, major extremist religious nutjobs like Major Nadal Hassan and John Allen Muhammed, lefty types that are so far off the map that they kill their own representation (Oswald), etc, pop into existence. But the frequency by which those nutjobs materialize and do their evil work is much less than the frequency of violent crime that is just inherent in communities period.

The way that you deal with that is by having the groups that they somewhat associate with move away from them publicly. You try to have moderate muslims condemning jihad in their communities and reporting those who are a threat to kill other people, you try to have liberal groups identify and distance themselves from groups like the Weather Underground and their modern counterparts like Democracy Now and the New Communists, etc.
Ok, fair enough, you don't care who's extremist beliefs are forced upon you. Interesting.

[mhgaffney]

That is what makes the world the way it is. Doesn't matter if you are red, yellow, black, white or whatever religion you are. The only race that matters is the human race!

Thank you. For once, a breath of fresh air.

How often do OMers sing the praises of diversity? Almost never.

The board is dominated by the worst kind of paranoids -- bordering on xenophobes

If you listen to them, immigrants and Muslims now threaten the world. Forget the banksters who are actually responsible. The shallow bastards need a helpless scapegoat -- someone to kick.

[mhgaffney]

Incidentally, Brit,

You have already been targeted and successfully occupied by foreign extremists. The Zionists and their allies long ago took control of your Congress, your white house, the corporate establishment, the media, Hollywood.

America is and has been occupied territory -- and they are not friendly to anyone who raises his head or who stands on principle.

The fact you don't even know this -- is a sure sign of just how completely they have colonized you mind.

[DenverBrit]

Incidentally, Brit,

You have already been targeted and successfully occupied by foreign extremists. The Zionists and their allies long ago took control of your Congress, your white house, the corporate establishment, the media, Hollywood.

America is and has been occupied territory -- and they are not friendly to anyone who raises his head or who stands on principle.

The fact you don't even know this -- is a sure sign of just how completely they have colonized you mind.

The fact that you think I care about what you have to say -- is a sure sign of just how completely you've lost your mind.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Ok, fair enough, you don't care who's extremist beliefs are forced upon you. Interesting.

I made quite an elaborate series of posts that explained that I dont think that they really effect our political system at all.

Radical ideas within a group of people who war against you to unseat your philosophy and forecefully enslave your people in Shar'ia law is much different than political change filtering up through our people into our legislature. After getting worked out in our legislature, our laws have to stand up to our presidential and judicial wings as well.

[That One Guy]

cultural/ethnic and religious wars seem to be increasing not decreasing, even with all of the global interactions. from china through russia through africa through europe through australia, ethnic and religious violence seems to be the principle source of angst. i guess it has something to do with how one defines one's self worth.

Ironic isn't it? The more "cultural acceptance" and benefits of "diversity" are spouted throughout the world, the more strife we have between those cultures? As long as you try to keep two distinctly different races cohabitating, there's always going to be a risk of that. It's been that way throughout history. Why would it change now?

Maybe conforming to society more often rather than insisting on fostering your own concept of society would decrease some of the tension. Maybe accepting the common values of your community rather than worrying about your personal preferences would go somewhere in alleviating some of the stress.

[chadta]

Maybe conforming to society more often rather than insisting on fostering your own concept of society would decrease some of the tension. Maybe accepting the common values of your community rather than worrying about your personal preferences would go somewhere in alleviating some of the stress.

this bothers me to hear you say that, because as a Canadian we have been taught since grade school that Canada is like a mosaic, everybody comes here but still keeps the ways of the old country, where as America was a melting pot where everybody showed up and was blended into society, and now it seems like that isnt so, which is really too bad because ive always felt that is the better way.

[That One Guy]

this bothers me to hear you say that, because as a Canadian we have been taught since grade school that Canada is like a mosaic, everybody comes here but still keeps the ways of the old country, where as America was a melting pot where everybody showed up and was blended into society, and now it seems like that isnt so, which is really too bad because ive always felt that is the better way.

Well, no, we don't really blend. Some obviously do but it's the reason you have Chinatown, Little Italy, etc, etc, etc. Blacks associate with blacks if given the opportunity, whites with whites, etc, etc, etc.

Now there's always going to be deviations from that and it happens quite regularly but the more people hold on to their own traditions and customs, the more likely they are to isolate themselves. As long as people continue to isolate, there will always be those issues. Luckily, with the exception of areas completely isolated by language barriers, there will be a general acceptance of the culture, it seems, over time. If we continue to allow people to come to the country and we cater to their languages and don't force english, how can we expect them to become part of society?

[Requiem]

this bothers me to hear you say that, because as a Canadian we have been taught since grade school that Canada is like a mosaic, everybody comes here but still keeps the ways of the old country, where as America was a melting pot where everybody showed up and was blended into society, and now it seems like that isnt so, which is really too bad because ive always felt that is the better way.

There are some cases where people don't fully assimilate into the greater "American Culture." -- yet are still functioning members of our society.

[epicSocialism4tw]

There are some cases where people don't fully assimilate into the greater "American Culture." -- yet are still functioning members of our society.

As long as people obey the laws and are integrated, it doesnt matter to me.

When people group off and remain isolated, it breeds racial/cultural contempt. I see it in the inner city all the time. The Mexicans, African-Americans, Samoans/Tongans, Vietnamese, etc. all mistrust each other and have regular conflicts. The parents teach the children not to trust the other races. The cycle repeats for generations.

What you have to do to break down those walls is to teach them about the common values and beliefs that are inherent in the US constitution. You bind people by that document. It teaches us that our neighbor has the same rights that we do. It empowers us all in the same way, irrespective of culture.

[Requiem]

Isolation certainly doesn't help, people have a fear of what they do not know.

Finding common ground is key, which could be done in many ways.

I don't know if using the U.S. Constitution as leverage or a bargaining chip is the right tool to go about alleviating such problems.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Isolation certainly doesn't help, people have a fear of what they do not know.

Finding common ground is key, which could be done in many ways.

I don't know if using the U.S. Constitution as leverage or a bargaining chip is the right tool to go about alleviating such problems.

I wouldnt call it a bargaining chip. I would call it a key binding deeply-seated philosophical worldview. Our schools need to stop teaching isolated groups that they are hemmed in by each other, and instead to use things like natural rights and the bill of rights to teach people that they are only hemmed in by their own aspirations.

Politics of race are destructive. You should never force children to be segregated from one another in any cultural way.

[gyldenlove]

this bothers me to hear you say that, because as a Canadian we have been taught since grade school that Canada is like a mosaic, everybody comes here but still keeps the ways of the old country, where as America was a melting pot where everybody showed up and was blended into society, and now it seems like that isnt so, which is really too bad because ive always felt that is the better way.

America has always embraced the French idea of the republic, it doesn't matter what your background or roots are, you can only be American (or French) if you embrace and live out the ideals as set forth by society. American society and traditions actively force themselves upon any newcomer and try to assimilate them into the same way of thinking and the same ideals.

Canada and to a large extend England are in the opposite ditch and try to allow everyone to continue their own traditions and culture.

From experience I can say that both methods fail in some cases, the concept of letting people continue their own traditions enables legal subsocieties to exist with no fear of harrassment which means it becomes a more open subsociety and therefore easier to monitor and coexist with. However allowing these paralel societies to exist also increases the freedom of individuals within these societies to actively work against the greater good and grow dissidence and estrangement.

[Boomhauer]

Incidentally, Brit,
You have already been targeted and successfully occupied by foreign extremists. The Zionists and their allies long ago took control of your Congress, your white house, the corporate establishment, the media, Hollywood. America is and has been occupied territory -- and they are not friendly to anyone who raises his head or who stands on principle.
The fact you don't even know this -- is a sure sign of just how completely they have colonized you mind.

You sure it's Zionists? Not Free Masons', Kights Templar, the Mob, the gay mafia, the Skulls, vampires, Illuminaties, aliens, interdimensional felines, or any others I might have left out?

essential David Bowie vid.........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slKNd22GGaQ&feature=related

[epicSocialism4tw]

You sure it's Zionists? Not Free Masons', Kights Templar, the Mob, the gay mafia, the Skulls, vampires, Illuminaties, aliens, interdimensional felines, or any others I might have left out?

You left out the lizard people.

[JJJ]

As long as people obey the laws and are integrated, it doesnt matter to me.

When people group off and remain isolated, it breeds racial/cultural contempt. I see it in the inner city all the time. The Mexicans, African-Americans, Samoans/Tongans, Vietnamese, etc. all mistrust each other and have regular conflicts. The parents teach the children not to trust the other races. The cycle repeats for generations.

What you have to do to break down those walls is to teach them about the common values and beliefs that are inherent in the US constitution. You bind people by that document. It teaches us that our neighbor has the same rights that we do. It empowers us all in the same way, irrespective of culture.

I think when getting your green card some study of the founding documents is a very good idea.

But in the end it is a free country. It is completely up to them if they want to assimilate or not.

It is not the role of the government to teach people how to act in our culture. That is the role of the citizens.

[That One Guy]

I think when getting your green card some study of the founding documents is a very good idea.

But in the end it is a free country. It is completely up to them if they want to assimilate or not.

It is not the role of the government to teach people how to act in our culture. That is the role of the citizens.

But there's not much to be done by the citizens when the foreigners can't/wont speak the language and isolate with their own kind.

If we adhered to business matters in english only, I'd absolutely agree that what people do beyond that is their own business. By allowing people to be here with no comprehension of the language though, we foster a bunch of different societies and there's no way for society to police itself.

[JJJ]

But there's not much to be done by the citizens when the foreigners can't/wont speak the language and isolate with their own kind.

If we adhered to business matters in english only, I'd absolutely agree that what people do beyond that is their own business. By allowing people to be here with no comprehension of the language though, we foster a bunch of different societies and there's no way for society to police itself.

I don't think requiring to pass a basic English test in order to get to retain your green card after a certain time or to gain citizenship would be an idea many would be against. I think that is a reasonable requirement.

You no doubt would have to fight the left to win that battle though. It would be vehemently opposed by them.

[That One Guy]

I don't think requiring to pass a basic English test in order to get to retain your green card after a certain time or to gain citizenship would be an idea many would be against. I think that is a reasonable requirement.

You no doubt would have to fight the left to win that battle though. It would be vehemently opposed by them.

Well, to be honest, I never understood the opposition to doing all business in a standard language. I would've thought that would be a generally accepted concept as well and it's been quite opposed.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Well, to be honest, I never understood the opposition to doing all business in a standard language. I would've thought that would be a generally accepted concept as well and it's been quite opposed.

I am convinced that the leftists have taken up the "cause" of being contrarian. Thats all they exist for. So if English is the standard language and thats what people want, then it must be opposed.

A brainless lot for sure.

[Rascal]

French President Nicolas Sarkozy declared Thursday that multiculturalism had failed, joining a growing number of world leaders or ex-leaders who have condemned it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110210/wl_afp/francepoliticsimmigrationsociety

[BroncoLifer]

You sure it's Zionists? Not Free Masons', Kights Templar, the Mob, the gay mafia, the Skulls, vampires, Illuminaties, aliens, interdimensional felines, or any others I might have left out?

essential David Bowie vid.........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slKNd22GGaQ&feature=related

How could you miss the Trilateral Commission?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

If you listen to them, immigrants and Muslims now threaten the world. Forget the banksters who are actually responsible. The shallow bastards need a helpless scapegoat -- someone to kick.

Those banksters must be having a good laugh at the expense of the right-wing half-wits whom they've managed to hoodwink into believing that banksters' interests = said right-wing half-wits' interests.