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Rohirrim
02-04-2011, 12:32 PM
Goodell says he's fighting for the 18 game season because that's what fans want. I'm just testing the OM to see if he's right.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/04/roger-goodell-18-game-season-is-what-fans-want/

Mile High Shack
02-04-2011, 12:33 PM
from what I saw, some poll only had like 40% thinking 18 games were a good thing

this is NOT about the fans, it's about more revenue for the owners

Pick Six
02-04-2011, 12:34 PM
I believe Art Rooney disagrees with him. I don't have a link for that, but I heard it mentioned on ESPN...

Archer81
02-04-2011, 12:34 PM
I would love a 10 month NFL season, but I am not sure converting two preseason games into reg. season games would be a good idea.

:Broncos:

Rohirrim
02-04-2011, 12:36 PM
I have to vote yes. I'm watching pre-season games anyway, which are a joke. Why not make them real? I am concerned about records being broken and things like that. Some have argued that the IR will look like hell by the end of the season. I know if I'm paying for those tickets in pre-season, I'd rather the games have some meaning.

meangene
02-04-2011, 12:37 PM
No. 16 games is plenty. Longer seasons have to mean shorter preseasons and, much as I hate preseason games, teams need that time to evaluate players and put a quality product on the field. Longer seasons means more injuries and the games start to become less and less meaningful. 18 games is nothing but a pure greed move on the part of the owners.

bfoflcommish
02-04-2011, 12:37 PM
I have to vote yes. I'm watching pre-season games anyway, which are a joke. Why not make them real? I am concerned about records being broken and things like that. Some have argued that the IR will look like hell by the end of the season. I know if I'm paying for those tickets in pre-season, I'd rather the games have some meaning.

See I see the whole IR thing being an arguement everywhere, but players have just as much chance getting hurt in any preseaon game or weeks 1-16...its no difference.

Doggcow
02-04-2011, 12:38 PM
I have to vote yes. I'm watching pre-season games anyway, which are a joke. Why not make them real? I am concerned about records being broken and things like that. Some have argued that the IR will look like hell by the end of the season. I know if I'm paying for those tickets in pre-season, I'd rather the games have some meaning.

The games have a ridiculous amount of meaning.

They are HUGE for the players that play in them.

I say no. As much as I think it would be awesome to have an 18 week fantasy season, I'd rather see teams competing at the highest level in the playoffs (e.g. injury free as much as possible) and 2 more games just defeats that.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2011, 12:39 PM
No. No no no. A thousand times no.

No.

BMarsh615
02-04-2011, 12:41 PM
Not if we are gonna suck as much as we did last year.

SouthStndJunkie
02-04-2011, 12:42 PM
I prefer to keep the regular season at 16 games.

Irish Stout
02-04-2011, 12:44 PM
What I don't hear about much, but don't want to see are a ton of meaningless games being played at the end of the year. Sure, two more games will give some teams more opportunity to get into the playoffs, but there will be more teams that are straight out (Broncos this year) or locked up with 2, 3, 4 games left in the season.

Personally I also feel the preseason is a great time to evaluate and implement future game plan ideas. I think without those two games, more teams won't really know who their "right" players are.

Injury can occur anytime. Ticket prices for preseason need to come down.

Rohirrim
02-04-2011, 12:45 PM
So far, it looks as if Goodell is blowing smoke up someone's ass. ;D

bronco militia
02-04-2011, 12:46 PM
the game is fine...quit trying to change it every week!

**** YOU GOODELL

Mr.Meanie
02-04-2011, 12:51 PM
Yes, and hell yes. I watch preseason games too, even though it feels like a collossal waste of time. I would like more meaningful games, extra playoff games, and more players on the roster.

extralife
02-04-2011, 12:53 PM
I don't see any benefit to an 18 game season at all

except extra money for the owners, which is of course what this is about.

Dedhed
02-04-2011, 01:11 PM
I don't pretend it's the best thing for the players, but I would absolutely love to see two more Broncos games every year.

I also don't think it will change the landscape of the NFL much at all like some people are arguing.

oubronco
02-04-2011, 01:14 PM
Get rid of 2 preseason crap games and make 2 more count better for the fans

Hogan11
02-04-2011, 01:15 PM
the game is fine...quit trying to change it every week!

**** YOU GOODELL

Didja watch the Pro Bowl? I'm convinced that's the type and level of football Goodell wants every week. Look on the bright side, player injuries would go wayyyyyyyy down Hilarious!

bronco militia
02-04-2011, 01:16 PM
Didja watch the Pro Bowl? I'm convinced that's the type and level of football Goodell wants every week. Look on the bright side, player injuries would go wayyyyyyyy down Hilarious!

LOL

Jason in LA
02-04-2011, 01:27 PM
I think that preseason games are a total waste of time, even for evaluating players. Everything is so vanilla in preseason that I'd say that coaches put more stock in training camp practices.

Get rid of two preseason games and that's it. No need to turn them into regular season games.

For the players, 16 games is enough. It's a rough sport.

cutthemdown
02-04-2011, 01:32 PM
Nope for a lot of reasons.

1- I don't want to see teams so far ahead at end of yr they sit a ton and coast.

2- It waters down the games. One thing about football is a win is worth more then in other sports who play a ton of games.

3- So now Chargers can start off even worst with more time to catch up?

Kaylore
02-04-2011, 01:32 PM
17 and another bye week. How about this: everyone gets a bye before the playoffs start.

cutthemdown
02-04-2011, 01:34 PM
I think that preseason games are a total waste of time, even for evaluating players. Everything is so vanilla in preseason that I'd say that coaches put more stock in training camp practices.

Get rid of two preseason games and that's it. No need to turn them into regular season games.

For the players, 16 games is enough. It's a rough sport.

I hear this from fans and starting NFL players but not from gms and coaches.

Also you can really learn a lot from preseason. Pretty much all Broncos preseason problems carried over. Preseason IMO very important to see how young players have digested what you are teaching them.

Dedhed
02-04-2011, 01:34 PM
17 and another bye week. How about this: everyone gets a bye before the playoffs start.

I'll see that and raise you 3 games and a bye week,

20 games, 3 bye weeks.

titan
02-04-2011, 01:36 PM
If the NFL starts the season at the end of August, keeping the start of training camps the same and with 2 preseason games, I'm OK with an 18 game schedule. If this is the schedule the Broncos actually would have a chance to open at home because there would be no conflict with the US Open Tennis Championships on CBS. I like attending training camp in early August, and I like more warm weather home games.

If, however, as is rumored they want to push the season back two weeks, opening camp 2 weeks later, sticking with the same opening date now (weekend after labor day), playing regular season games through mid January, and playing the Super Bowl in mid to late February I'm against it. More cold weather home games, and training camp less accessible (starting in mid-August when my kids are already in school).

cutthemdown
02-04-2011, 01:37 PM
17 and another bye week. How about this: everyone gets a bye before the playoffs start.

Why is the comish hell bent on fixing things that aren't broken? This is so blatant just to make more money. Its a bad decision look for money elsewhere. Screwing with a league that is perfect is not a good idea. The rules were perfect, the season just long enough. Its a bad mistake to go to 18 games and especially your idea to start giving byes before playoffs.

Now you want to remove the advantage of the bye week off? Your takes are so over rated on this board.

listopencil
02-04-2011, 01:40 PM
I'd rather have a 20 game season, and no pre-season whatsoever.

NFLBRONCO
02-04-2011, 01:40 PM
More idle time between end of year and divisional round for bye teams=college bowl games most stink

More injuries

Sucks for bad teams two weeks longer of misery.

listopencil
02-04-2011, 01:41 PM
I'll see that and raise you 3 games and a bye week,

20 games, 3 bye weeks.


I'd like to see a universal bye week in the middle of the season, with a two week opening of trades.

Jason in LA
02-04-2011, 01:43 PM
I hear this from fans and starting NFL players but not from gms and coaches.

Also you can really learn a lot from preseason. Pretty much all Broncos preseason problems carried over. Preseason IMO very important to see how young players have digested what you are teaching them.

Ryan Leaf is a good example on why preseason games are useless. Against vanilla defenses he looked great. Once the season started and teams started playing for real he sucked.

I've seen players light it up in preseason games and then get cut the next day and players who did a whole lot of nothing in those games stick around.

I'd say that fans like to think that preseason games mean something, because it is something that they get the analyze. But I'd say that coaches and GMs do more evaluating in training camp.

Hogan11
02-04-2011, 01:46 PM
I'd rather have a 20 game season, and no pre-season whatsoever.

The WFL did this during it's brief existance in the 70's and it didn't work.

Of course, Goodell will just schedule all divisional matchups in the final weeks of the season and send two more games a season to be played overseas....one probably in Tokyo and another in Mexico City to go with London & Toronto

listopencil
02-04-2011, 01:49 PM
The WFL did this during it's brief existance in the 70's and it didn't work.

Of course, Goodell will just schedule all divisional matchups in the final weeks of the season and send two more games a season to be played overseas....one probably in Tokyo and another in Mexico City to go with London & Toronto


I think it didn't work mainly because it was the WFL. I really don't care for the overseas games, though.

Rohirrim
02-04-2011, 01:51 PM
3- So now Chargers can start off even worst with more time to catch up?

Ha! I hadn't thought of that.

Pick Six
02-04-2011, 01:52 PM
No. 16 games is plenty. Longer seasons have to mean shorter preseasons and, much as I hate preseason games, teams need that time to evaluate players and put a quality product on the field. Longer seasons means more injuries and the games start to become less and less meaningful. 18 games is nothing but a pure greed move on the part of the owners.

My original feeling was that it was fine to take away some of the preseason games, but I changed my mind. Coaches definitely need that time to analyze who is the right fit for the team. Practicing against your own defense does very little to evaluate the right talent. I'm just amused at people who take preseason games seriously. OH NOES! WE LOST A PRESEASON GAME!!! ZOMG!!! Hilarious!

Hogan11
02-04-2011, 01:53 PM
I think it didn't work mainly because it was the WFL. I really don't care for the overseas games, though.

I'm kinda a WFL history buff, something has always fascinated me about that league, anyways they went to a limited preseason in 75 for a multitude of obivous reasons and the 20 game schedule created a lot of carnage amongst the players.....which shouldn't be an issue if Goodell keeps up his agenda to emasculate the game totally.

Smiling Assassin27
02-04-2011, 01:57 PM
2 games seems like an arbitrary number. Why 2? Why not 6? To me, I see no reason for changing this with the exception of more revenue. It would not add more allure to the game or the season for me and makes the value of games less on a weekly basis now. The great thing about a 12 or 14 game season was that every game effects a team's standing and position. When they moved to 16 games and expanded the number of teams, we now see a lot more meaningless games which just doesn't add to the quality of the product, IMO. Stay at 16, from a fan's perspective.

From a player's perspective, you now increase the amount of wear and tear on yourself while your career is short as it is. Not all that appealing.

listopencil
02-04-2011, 01:59 PM
I'm kinda a WFL history buff, something has always fascinated me about that league, anyways they went to a limited preseason in 75 for a multitude of obivous reasons and the 20 game schedule created a lot of carnage amongst the players.....which shouldn't be an issue if Goodell keeps up his agenda to emasculate the game totally.

I'm hoping the new CBA means a longer season AND larger rosters.

cutthemdown
02-04-2011, 02:11 PM
Ryan Leaf is a good example on why preseason games are useless. Against vanilla defenses he looked great. Once the season started and teams started playing for real he sucked.

I've seen players light it up in preseason games and then get cut the next day and players who did a whole lot of nothing in those games stick around.

I'd say that fans like to think that preseason games mean something, because it is something that they get the analyze. But I'd say that coaches and GMs do more evaluating in training camp.

So when every coach says he doesnt want to lose the preseason because its vital to evaluation and prep for season you don't believe them? You would rather assume they are lying and they really just need training camp?

OBF1
02-04-2011, 02:11 PM
No. 16 games is plenty. Longer seasons have to mean shorter preseasons and, much as I hate preseason games, teams need that time to evaluate players and put a quality product on the field. Longer seasons means more injuries and the games start to become less and less meaningful. 18 games is nothing but a pure greed move on the part of the owners.

Remember this when you go in for your next evaluation at work... Just tell them a thank you is enough, you work for the fun of it Hilarious!

cutthemdown
02-04-2011, 02:13 PM
It really hurts fantasy football also which is big money now. If season super long like that you will have yrs where a couple big teams are up 3-4 games with 5 to play. Instead of being up 1-2 games with 5 to play. See the risk?

cutthemdown
02-04-2011, 02:13 PM
For sure if they go 18 games they need to add about 5-6 players to the active rosters. Also maybe increase size of the practice squad by 2 or 3.

OBF1
02-04-2011, 02:14 PM
I don't see any benefit to an 18 game season at all

except extra money for the owners, which is of course what this is about.

Am I the only missing this??? All professional sports are played for MONEY. Whether the players looking for bigger and bigger contracts or the owners who foot the damn bill. Jesus, some of you need to wake the FU and welcome yourselfs to reality.

OBF1
02-04-2011, 02:16 PM
For sure if they go 18 games they need to add about 5-6 players to the active rosters. Also maybe increase size of the practice squad by 2 or 3.

They are saying that going to 18 games would also mean increasing the size of both the active rosters and the pratice squads

Smiling Assassin27
02-04-2011, 02:18 PM
Am I the only missing this??? All professional sports are played for MONEY. Whether the players looking for bigger and bigger contracts or the owners who foot the damn bill. Jesus, some of you need to wake the FU and welcome yourselfs to reality.

LIAR! It's for the love of the game, you blasphemer!

http://www.collider.com/wp-content/uploads/invasion_of_the_body_snatchers_1978_movie_image_do nald_sutherland_01.jpg

meangene
02-04-2011, 02:21 PM
Remember this when you go in for your next evaluation at work... Just tell them a thank you is enough, you work for the fun of it Hilarious!

Hilarious!
1. I am the boss.
2. We are talking about billionaire owners here. The only reason for going to 18 games is more money in their pockets, not for the fans as they are trying to proclaim.

Hogan11
02-04-2011, 02:22 PM
It really hurts fantasy football also which is big money now.

That's right! No way it gets expanded to 18 games now

Jason in LA
02-04-2011, 02:24 PM
So when every coach says he doesnt want to lose the preseason because its vital to evaluation and prep for season you don't believe them? You would rather assume they are lying and they really just need training camp?

Link?

meangene
02-04-2011, 02:28 PM
Am I the only missing this??? All professional sports are played for MONEY. Whether the players looking for bigger and bigger contracts or the owners who foot the damn bill. Jesus, some of you need to wake the FU and welcome yourselfs to reality.

Yes, it is about money and that is the point you are missing. Watering down your product with less preseason preparation, more injuries and less meaningful games makes it a less popular product. The NFL is successful largely because the games are so meaningful and only played once a week. Plus, you have to consider the player's union as well - you can't preach safety, ask them to take a smaller portion of the pie, institute a rookie wage scale and then add two games to a schedule that has already been expanded in recent years. That's reality.

OBF1
02-04-2011, 02:29 PM
The 18 games are too many arguements are pretty week.

Where was all the whining when the NFL went from 12 to 14 games back in 1961???

How about when they went from 14 to 16 games after our Orange Crush superbowl year???

No one was concerned or whining then, but now all of the experts know better. The players are making millions of dollars playing a game.... A GAME, adding 2 more REAL games vs 2 games that most of them do not play in (preseason) is soooooo unfair. I think I will quit watching the NFL, those mean owners, how dare them wanting to make more money on their investments.

Smiling Assassin27
02-04-2011, 02:32 PM
The 18 games are too many arguements are pretty week.

Where was all the whining when the NFL went from 12 to 14 games back in 1961???

How about when they went from 14 to 16 games after our Orange Crush superbowl year???

No one was concerned or whining then, but now all of the experts know better. The players are making millions of dollars playing a game.... A GAME, adding 2 more REAL games vs 2 games that most of them do not play in (preseason) is soooooo unfair. I think I will quit watching the NFL, those mean owners, how dare them wanting to make more money on their investments.

Using that reasoning, why only go to 18? Make it a 36 game season. I've heard no sound reason to go to 18 but have heard lots of BS about concern for the fans. So why 2? How much is too much? I 'd assume there is a law of diminishing return at some point, no? My diminishing return is more than 16 but that's just me.

OBF1
02-04-2011, 02:34 PM
Hilarious!
1. I am the boss.
2. We are talking about billionaire owners here. The only reason for going to 18 games is more money in their pockets, not for the fans as they are trying to proclaim.

Okay boss.... why not give every employee of yours a 25% raise this afternoon... or pay them over 50% of the total profits of your company.

These so called billionaires are that in title only, The teams might be valued at a billion by Forbes magazine, but in reality, I doubt most of them could put together $500,000,000.00 cash if their life depended upon it. They are billionaires on paper, not in the real world. Patrick Bowlen is the perfect example of this according to the Orange Mane, He can not afford to give Champ Bailey a $50 million dollar contract or pay for any free agents NOW HE IS A BILLIONAIRE.

meangene
02-04-2011, 02:35 PM
Using that reasoning, why only go to 18? Make it a 36 game season. I've heard no sound reason to go to 18 but have heard lots of BS about concern for the fans. So why 2? How much is too much? I 'd assume there is a law of diminishing return at some point, no? My diminishing return is more than 16 but that's just me.

Apparently it's not just you. Look at the polls on the issue. The market (fans) doesn't want more than 16 games. I would say that is a pretty good indication they have reached the point of diminishing returns.

OBF1
02-04-2011, 02:36 PM
Using that reasoning, why only go to 18? Make it a 36 game season. I've heard no sound reason to go to 18 but have heard lots of BS about concern for the fans. So why 2? How much is too much? I 'd assume there is a law of diminishing return at some point, no? My diminishing return is more than 16 but that's just me.

Are you serious??? The 2 games are being added by dropping 2 preseason games man. It is still a total of 20 games. LOL

HAT
02-04-2011, 02:37 PM
It really hurts fantasy football also which is big money now. If season super long like that you will have yrs where a couple big teams are up 3-4 games with 5 to play. Instead of being up 1-2 games with 5 to play. See the risk?

Oh noes!

Houshyamama
02-04-2011, 02:38 PM
Yes.

If the game has to change to allow this, then so be it.

meangene
02-04-2011, 02:39 PM
Okay boss.... why not give every employee of yours a 25% raise this afternoon... or pay them over 50% of the total profits of your company.

These so called billionaires are that in title only, The teams might be valued at a billion by Forbes magazine, but in reality, I doubt most of them could put together $500,000,000.00 cash if their life depended upon it. They are billionaires on paper, not in the real world. Patrick Bowlen is the perfect example of this according to the Orange Mane, He can not afford to give Champ Bailey a $50 million dollar contract or pay for any free agents NOW HE IS A BILLIONAIRE.

No, I'll just tell them to work an extra few hours every week for nothing. Comparing the NFL owners to the average employer is just plain silly. NFL owners are extremely wealthy by any measure.

Smiling Assassin27
02-04-2011, 02:41 PM
Are you serious??? The 2 games are being added by dropping 2 preseason games man. It is still a total of 20 games. LOL

I know that. The question is the same. Why 2? Can you answer that?

OBF1
02-04-2011, 02:44 PM
Yes, it is about money and that is the point you are missing. Watering down your product with less preseason preparation, more injuries and less meaningful games makes it a less popular product. The NFL is successful largely because the games are so meaningful and only played once a week. Plus, you have to consider the player's union as well - you can't preach safety, ask them to take a smaller portion of the pie, institute a rookie wage scale and then add two games to a schedule that has already been expanded in recent years. That's reality.

1) Do you watch preseason football? The real starters play less than a grand total of 8 quarters which is exactly 2 games

2) Talk about less meaningful games... PRESEASON games are meaningless for most fans. Every single season ticket holder I know hates paying full price for 2 preseason games

3) Teams will still only play 1 game a week.

4) Players union is talking decertification and to be honest, I could give a sh it about any union. Safety is BS if you are saying the NFL needs 4 preseason games. The players are still going to play a total of 20 games either way it goes.

5) The league schedule has not been expanded since 1978, that is 33 years for you an I and 231 in dog years.

Your arguement is weak at best. Please come with your own take versus what ypu have heard other talk about.

listopencil
02-04-2011, 02:45 PM
I know that. The question is the same. Why 2? Can you answer that?

Because two skirts the issue of eliminating the preseason, and still increases revenue, without extending the season.

OBF1
02-04-2011, 02:48 PM
No, I'll just tell them to work an extra few hours every week for nothing. Comparing the NFL owners to the average employer is just plain silly. NFL owners are extremely wealthy by any measure.

NFL owners are not wealthy,

Signed,

Bill Gates
Warren Buffett
Carlos Helu
And about half a dozen Waltons

OBF1
02-04-2011, 02:49 PM
Because two skirts the issue of eliminating the preseason, and still increases revenue, without extending the season.

Thank you^5

Gcver2ver3
02-04-2011, 02:57 PM
i'm a big stat guy...i don't wanna see the numbers get even more inflated than they already are for a 16 game season...2,000 yd rushers and 5,000 yd passers all over the place takes away from the massive achievements of the ones that did it on 16 games or less...

plus, i'm prolly in the minority of being fine with 4 preseason games...i think preseason serves a good purpose and enjoy seeing the players develop and such during that time in real game action...i don't want that process shortened or rushed...

Houshyamama
02-04-2011, 02:58 PM
i'm a big stat guy...i don't wanna see the numbers get even more inflated than they already are for a 16 game season...2,000 yd rushers and 5,000 yd passers all over the place takes away from the massive achievements of the ones that did it on 16 games...

plus, i'm prolly in the minority of being fine with 4 preseason games...i think preseason serves a good purpose and enjoy seeing the players develop and such during that time in real game action...i don't want that process shortened...

I don't mind the preseason, but I don't like that season ticket holders have to pay so much for glorified scrimmages.

broncosteven
02-04-2011, 02:59 PM
If they go to 18 games I would like them to start a couple weeks earlier and then have a 1-2 week break in the middle of the year for guys to get healty and rest up. I don't want to go to a game outside in Feb.

Rohirrim
02-04-2011, 03:00 PM
The biggest beneficiaries of a four game pre-season are probably the rookies and others trying to make rosters. In reality, the vets are only playing in three of the games. And that's only if they can't figure a way to get out of some others.

Gcver2ver3
02-04-2011, 03:01 PM
I don't mind the preseason, but I don't like that season ticket holders have to pay so much for glorified scrimmages.

thats a valid point...

i think the better fix to that is to lessen preseason ticket prices versus eliminating half of them and adding reg season games...

meangene
02-04-2011, 03:02 PM
1) Do you watch preseason football? The real starters play less than a grand total of 8 quarters which is exactly 2 games

2) Talk about less meaningful games... PRESEASON games are meaningless for most fans. Every single season ticket holder I know hates paying full price for 2 preseason games

3) Teams will still only play 1 game a week.

4) Players union is talking decertification and to be honest, I could give a sh it about any union. Safety is BS if you are saying the NFL needs 4 preseason games. The players are still going to play a total of 20 games either way it goes.

5) The league schedule has not been expanded since 1978, that is 33 years for you an I and 231 in dog years.

Your arguement is weak at best. Please come with your own take versus what ypu have heard other talk about.

Yes I watch preseason games. Your point that the starters play so little makes my point that 2 more regular season games means a higher risk of injury to the better players vs. guys fighting for roster spots.

The REAL games will be less meaningful because there will be more of them. Continuing to play once a week doesn't change that.

Safety is an issue because a fewer number of players will be playing two more regular season games vs. a larger number of players playing in the two exhibition games.

The players union decertification would be to clear the way for a class action anti-trust lawsuit. If you like the NFL, you might want to give a ****.

The league schedule doesn't need to be expanded. Maybe that is why it hasn't been? Do you want the NFL to become like other leagues where there are intolerably long, boring regular seasons that stretch on forever and most fans tune in for the playoffs or finals?

My arguments are not weak because you say so any more than yours are weak because I think they are. And, I always come with my own arguments. Though, typically, I am less abrasive and obnoxious about it than you.

Houshyamama
02-04-2011, 03:08 PM
thats a valid point...

i think the better fix to that is to lessen preseason ticket prices versus eliminating half of them and adding reg season games...

This would definitely be a solution to the current problem, no doubt.

I guess I am viewing this from the angle that I would like to see a fundamental change in the game that would allow for a longer season. I don't care about old stats or fantasy (even though I love playing it), I want to see more games in the year. Of course this would cause more injuries and shorter careers if the game continues being played the way it is now, but it will adapt. The game will change and that's just life. If I'm not mistaken, there used to only be 14 games right?

I would even be okay with more than 20 games. More football means less time waiting around waiting for the season to start.

BigPlayShay
02-04-2011, 03:33 PM
No.

It would water down Division games even more. Like the Raiders this year, you could see more teams sweeping their division and yet missing the playoffs. Plus, on the other side of that you would have more Seahawks like teams, sub .500 winning their Division and going to or hosting playoff games.

OBF1
02-04-2011, 03:36 PM
Then lets go back to a 14 game season.... Does this solve all of the injury, meaningless games and seahawks making the playoff issues people seem to have?

How about cutting players salaries while owners lower ticket, concession and parking prices. What would make you guys happy??? The answer is not leave it the way it is now... Hence the potential lock out.

Durango
02-04-2011, 03:43 PM
Barring a substantial increase in roster sizes, the NFL season would become a 6 month episode of 'Survivor'.

No. 16 regular season games are enough.

If you want to lessen the Pre-Season schedule, and of course the owners want that revenue, then space out two Pre-Season games over four weeks to allow for regular season preparation and roster development.

rmsanger
02-04-2011, 03:47 PM
Everything is perfect the way it is! Why is it that some douches want to "fix" everything but end up ****ing it up.

maven
02-04-2011, 03:48 PM
Sure, why not. It gets rid of two preseason games.

Mediator12
02-04-2011, 04:16 PM
This is a pretty convoluted argument right now. Couple of things:

1. Coaches and Personnel people need the preseason games and tape to evaluate players who are cut from other teams. Also, there are players who are much better game players, than practice players or are better learning tactile than auditory or visual. TC is very limited today in the amount of Tackling teams can do as well, so for defenses getting a couple of preseason games is essential in getting used to live tackling.

2. The NFL players make a % of the total revenues so more revenues means higher salaries for the players union as well people. Plus, it gives teams 4-5 more roster spots and a couple more practice players. Saying the owners will make more money is correct, but so will the players! Plus, they get more players into the league.

3. 16 or 18 games is a good discussion though. Personally, I want 16. I do not want more money going into the league, I want less. I think that teams and players need to come back to the real world and realize the NFL is overvalued. Right now teams are valued at over 3-4 times their real value. Plus, the owner's are only realizing less than 1% of their investment of a billion doallars. They are profitable, but its not a solid investment for the capital outlay!

4. The players take half the revenues and over half the players who leave the league are insolvent from their NFL income 3 years after they leave. 80% have blown all their NFL money in five years and over 95% have in 10 years. The owners know this and are tired of operating their franchises and giving all the money to guys who live over their means and blow it!

5. So, the whole reason this is on the table is to increase the NFL revenues for Both players and Owners! However, the last CBA was severely tilted in the players favor to escape a labor stoppage. Now, the owners want to get an agreement they can stay profitable with in the future and secure their over-inflated franchise to profit values. That's it in a nutshell ;D

Houshyamama
02-04-2011, 04:31 PM
3. 16 or 18 games is a good discussion though. Personally, I want 16. I do not want more money going into the league, I want less. I think that teams and players need to come back to the real world and realize the NFL is overvalued. Right now teams are valued at over 3-4 times their real value. Plus, the owner's are only realizing less than 1% of their investment of a billion doallars. They are profitable, but its not a solid investment for the capital outlay!

Thanks for the thoughts.

Aren't NFL franchises currently used mainly as a tax write-off for the super rich?

El Minion
02-04-2011, 05:19 PM
This is a pretty convoluted argument right now. Couple of things:

3. 16 or 18 games is a good discussion though. Personally, I want 16. I do not want more money going into the league, I want less. I think that teams and players need to come back to the real world and realize the NFL is overvalued. Right now teams are valued at over 3-4 times their real value. Plus, the owner's are only realizing less than 1% of their investment of a billion doallars. They are profitable, but its not a solid investment for the capital outlay!

4. The players take half the revenues and over half the players who leave the league are insolvent from their NFL income 3 years after they leave. 80% have blown all their NFL money in five years and over 95% have in 10 years. The owners know this and are tired of operating their franchises and giving all the money to guys who live over their means and blow it!



Isn't this the same argument for both sides of the same coin. Owners overpaying and overvaluing NFL franchises and players over estimating their continued future earnings potential. And really, neither group should be responsible for the others moral hazard actions. Owner getting ****ty return on NFL investment, not players fault and players going bankrupt after playing career over is not owners fault.

Boogerboots
02-04-2011, 05:42 PM
I said yes with a caveat... 18 games with 2 expansion teams added... L.A. and Toronto.

Now about that divisional alignment thing.

DomCasual
02-04-2011, 06:02 PM
I thoroughly enjoy 16 3-hour Bronco games each year (I'd LOVE it if that number was consistently more like 19 or 20 3-hour games with the current schedule, but I digress). From a selfish perspective, I don't see anything not to like about adding 2 more 3-hour Bronco games a year. Honestly, I haven't ever come close to reaching my capacity for watching (and enjoying) Bronco games in a year, so I could probably add a lot more than 2, and be loving life.

From a logical perspective - taking into account all parties - I don't really see how it makes sense, or is necessary.

ScottXray
02-04-2011, 06:05 PM
I think 16 reg season games is enough, and also fits the league size at 32 teams.

18 reg season games will result in more injuries so the roster sizes have to be expanded . They really cannot start later than they do and should start earlier if they go to 18 games as there will probably be an extra bye week also.

The schedulle will also have to be changed. 4 teams a division means:
6 games within division (home and away)
1 other conference division in total (4 games)
1 same conference division in total ( 4 games )
2 other same conference divisions against either
top 2 or bottom 2 teams that match your division placement (4 games)
2 bye weeks? Season must start by mid August or they will be playing in late February, at least.

Frankly I'd like them to start reg season (16 game) the last week of August
right now.

In addition the players want to have no off season workouts and mini camps if the 18 game schedule is adopted. It is going to make for some LONG off seasons with nothing going on. Next they'll move the draft to May.

Boo to the 18 game season.

Jason in LA
02-04-2011, 06:47 PM
I wouldn't be shocked if the owners have no intentions of an 18 game season, but are just using it as a bargaining chip. The push for an 18 game season, and they'll stick to a 16 game season just to get the players to cave on something else.

chawknz
02-04-2011, 06:48 PM
I'd like it, but not if it'll cause a lockout.

Cito Pelon
02-05-2011, 09:14 AM
From Yahoo:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110205/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_super_bowl_goodell

"DALLAS Roger Goodell recognized the questioner, even kidded him.

Chad Ochocinco was in no joking mood.

The Bengals receiver, reporting for his own OCNN network. . . . . . . "

Starting to get in gear, maybe. Pretty good article, actually.

As for 18 games??? IDK, I can see advantages and disadvantages to all parties involved - fans, players, owners, TV/radio networks.

As a fan, I'd be happy to see two PS games converted to count 'em games.

Of the PS games, the starters play apx 7 quarters out of the total 16 in the four PS games. The starters play apx 6 quarters out of the total 12 in the final three PS games, 3 quarters often in the the 3rd PS game.

So it's not a big leap to go from 4 out of 8 quarters in the final two PS games to the full eight quarters.

Hopefully they get it worked out, since they're finally maybe buckling down and doing some bargaining. March 4th is not far away.

WolfpackGuy
02-05-2011, 09:37 AM
Just put two more teams per conference in the playoffs.

18 regular season games would be too brutal.

broncolife
02-05-2011, 09:44 AM
Pre pre season - (2 weeks) 3rd and 4th stringers only

Pre Season- (2 weeks) Starters play half of games. There will be one international week were all teams travel to another country. Get it out of the way in preseason.

18 games with increased roster

errand
02-05-2011, 10:12 AM
Just my personal opinion on improving the NFL.....some might sound absurd, others not so much. Keep in mind it's just one man's opinion, so....

Make the season 18 games...home and away for each division rival (6) and one game with each team in your respective conference (12)

Sunday NFL Ticket could make it more affordable to the regular fan and will probably increase their sales if they'd allow you to buy only the team you want to watch instead of a package that gives you every team. If you're a broncos fan you should be able to buy a team package that let's you watch just the Broncos vs whomever because not everyone wants to watch every other team in the NFL.

Playoffs consist of the division winners and two wild cards.....

Eliminate the AFC playing the NFC until the Super Bowl....like it use to be when there was an AFL vs NFL. See my take on an 18 game season

Play the Super Bowl in Hawaii every year in a new state of the art stadium that is funded by EVERY owner paying 1/32 of the bill....and have the Pro bowl make the circuit through out the league by playing in every city. Sure it might be 32 years before you get to host it...but it's better than never getting to.

cleveland is alot more affordable trip than Hawaii is to the average joe fanto see players from other teams. i'm a Broncos fan, but think that Manning and Brady are pretty good players too. Besides if you wanna play a game in Hawaii, then win your ****ing conference.

If the league wants to eliminate helmet to helmet hits...get rid of helmets then. i doubt anyone would be leading with their heads then......

Instead of NFL Europe....have the NFLDL (NFL Development League) and send those young guys who need more developing to smaller US cities...europeans can't stand american football anyways.

If your team is mired in a 4 or more game losing streak, then raffle off OC/DC for a day tickets..it'll generate some income, and what the hell joe Fan couldn't call 'em any worse than the guy you got could he?

Instead of donating monies to charities the NFL should fund the Lingerie Football League....those women play hard and if you're gonna get pounded, you should at least look good.....make their championship game the halftime show at the Super bowl. Hell it's better to see 20 year old boobs instead of silicone filled 40 year old ones....ah who am i kidding, nice boobs are always good to see regardless

Cito Pelon
02-05-2011, 11:17 AM
If the NFL starts the season at the end of August, keeping the start of training camps the same and with 2 preseason games, I'm OK with an 18 game schedule. If this is the schedule the Broncos actually would have a chance to open at home because there would be no conflict with the US Open Tennis Championships on CBS. I like attending training camp in early August, and I like more warm weather home games.

If, however, as is rumored they want to push the season back two weeks, opening camp 2 weeks later, sticking with the same opening date now (weekend after labor day), playing regular season games through mid January, and playing the Super Bowl in mid to late February I'm against it. More cold weather home games, and training camp less accessible (starting in mid-August when my kids are already in school).

That's a good point. It also gives indoor teams an advantage.

There's a lot of points to be debated about the new CBA. Hopefully they buckle down and get something worked out. It's a shame they haven't had a bargaining session since November. Now they have some scheduled, so lets see how it works out.

Cito Pelon
02-05-2011, 11:25 AM
I'd like to see a universal bye week in the middle of the season, with a two week opening of trades.

Maybe a two week byes. There has to be a lot of options on the table. These mutts are getting into crunch time.

spdirty
02-05-2011, 11:28 AM
I don't think the players will cave on this. Hopefully not. I really like the 16 game schedule. Don't want to see careers shortened by the 2 extra games, and I have not yet heard of 1 single player, former or current, that is for this.

driver
02-05-2011, 11:29 AM
Goddell says it's for the fans BULL SH_T! It's for the tv contract monies and nothing else.

cutthemdown
02-05-2011, 11:46 AM
I wouldn't be shocked if the owners have no intentions of an 18 game season, but are just using it as a bargaining chip. The push for an 18 game season, and they'll stick to a 16 game season just to get the players to cave on something else.

not a bad take. It's very possible the owners aren't so in love with 18 games but really know the players hate it. I would think players union would want 18 games though, more work, bigger rosters etc etc.

cutthemdown
02-05-2011, 11:48 AM
Just my personal opinion on improving the NFL.....some might sound absurd, others not so much. Keep in mind it's just one man's opinion, so....

Make the season 18 games...home and away for each division rival (6) and one game with each team in your respective conference (12)

Sunday NFL Ticket could make it more affordable to the regular fan and will probably increase their sales if they'd allow you to buy only the team you want to watch instead of a package that gives you every team. If you're a broncos fan you should be able to buy a team package that let's you watch just the Broncos vs whomever because not everyone wants to watch every other team in the NFL.

Playoffs consist of the division winners and two wild cards.....

Eliminate the AFC playing the NFC until the Super Bowl....like it use to be when there was an AFL vs NFL. See my take on an 18 game season

Play the Super Bowl in Hawaii every year in a new state of the art stadium that is funded by EVERY owner paying 1/32 of the bill....and have the Pro bowl make the circuit through out the league by playing in every city. Sure it might be 32 years before you get to host it...but it's better than never getting to.

cleveland is alot more affordable trip than Hawaii is to the average joe fanto see players from other teams. i'm a Broncos fan, but think that Manning and Brady are pretty good players too. Besides if you wanna play a game in Hawaii, then win your ****ing conference.

If the league wants to eliminate helmet to helmet hits...get rid of helmets then. i doubt anyone would be leading with their heads then......

Instead of NFL Europe....have the NFLDL (NFL Development League) and send those young guys who need more developing to smaller US cities...europeans can't stand american football anyways.

If your team is mired in a 4 or more game losing streak, then raffle off OC/DC for a day tickets..it'll generate some income, and what the hell joe Fan couldn't call 'em any worse than the guy you got could he?

Instead of donating monies to charities the NFL should fund the Lingerie Football League....those women play hard and if you're gonna get pounded, you should at least look good.....make their championship game the halftime show at the Super bowl. Hell it's better to see 20 year old boobs instead of silicone filled 40 year old ones....ah who am i kidding, nice boobs are always good to see regardless

There are so many problems with your ideas I don't know where to start. For one thing they would never give all the money that comes with the Superbowl to one city for all time.

Cito Pelon
02-05-2011, 11:49 AM
2 games seems like an arbitrary number. Why 2? Why not 6? To me, I see no reason for changing this with the exception of more revenue. It would not add more allure to the game or the season for me and makes the value of games less on a weekly basis now. The great thing about a 12 or 14 game season was that every game effects a team's standing and position. When they moved to 16 games and expanded the number of teams, we now see a lot more meaningless games which just doesn't add to the quality of the product, IMO. Stay at 16, from a fan's perspective.

From a player's perspective, you now increase the amount of wear and tear on yourself while your career is short as it is. Not all that appealing.

Eh, maybe the owners are willing to keep the 60% of revenue the players have now in return for the 18 game schedule.

And like I said before, the starters on teams play apx 50% of the plays in the last two PS games so it's not a huge deal if they play 100% of the last two PS games, which would become the first two real games.

60% of revenue is a big deal. There is about 0% of industries that get 60% of revenue guaranteed.

Mogulseeker
02-05-2011, 11:50 AM
What about season ticket holders who are forced to buy preseason tickets?

Go to a two-game preseason, 18-game regular season and everybody is happy.

Mogulseeker
02-05-2011, 11:53 AM
See I see the whole IR thing being an arguement everywhere, but players have just as much chance getting hurt in any preseaon game or weeks 1-16...its no difference.

Not really.... you're not playing your starters through the whole preseason games. And the ones that have the job locked up probably aren't going 100 percent.

As for not being able to evaluate players in the preseason... I say **** it. It will create more turnover in the NFL and thus more parity.

errand
02-06-2011, 12:59 PM
There are so many problems with your ideas I don't know where to start. For one thing they would never give all the money that comes with the Superbowl to one city for all time.

OK, fair enough...but like i said it's just my opinion. and opinions vary....

However what's wrong with giving honolulu the benefit of a Super bowl every year? you realize that it's generally been New Orleans or miami that's hosted the most Super bowls? If they moved it from NFL city to NFL city, you'd have a better argument. Dallas and NY had to build a brand new stadium just to get one, and most other cities that have hosted one had to have domed stadiums...if they didn't it'd have gone to some warm weather site like oh snap! Miami and New Orleans, maybe Tampa....

RhymesayersDU
02-06-2011, 01:04 PM
Is there anybody out there generally apathetic to this issue?

I'm legitimately OK with either outcome. I love the NFL now, so staying as-is is fine. If they go to an 18-game season, I'll be fine with that too. We'll adjust our lives accordingly and move on.

Mogulseeker
02-06-2011, 01:12 PM
Is there anybody out there generally apathetic to this issue?

I'm legitimately OK with either outcome. I love the NFL now, so staying as-is is fine. If they go to an 18-game season, I'll be fine with that too. We'll adjust our lives accordingly and move on.

I'm fairly apathetic, but I would enjoy an 18 game season.

Hamrob
02-06-2011, 01:28 PM
17 and another bye week. How about this: everyone gets a bye before the playoffs start.Yeah, if you are going to do it...that's a good way. Florio proposed 17 weeks with 1 game being played on a neutral field...London, Mexico, Canada or other US cities that don't have an NFL team...like L.A., Albuquerque etc.

Pesonally, I don't want it. The NFL already went from 12 to 14 to 16 games. 16 is enough. I don't want all the records to become jokes. I mean to even compare Emmit Smith or other modern day running back with Jim Brown is a joke. The guy played 12 game seasons. People tend to forget that...and it takes away from sports history...in my opinion.

Cito Pelon
02-06-2011, 01:59 PM
OK, fair enough...but like i said it's just my opinion. and opinions vary....

However what's wrong with giving honolulu the benefit of a Super bowl every year? you realize that it's generally been New Orleans or miami that's hosted the most Super bowls? If they moved it from NFL city to NFL city, you'd have a better argument. Dallas and NY had to build a brand new stadium just to get one, and most other cities that have hosted one had to have domed stadiums...if they didn't it'd have gone to some warm weather site like oh snap! Miami and New Orleans, maybe Tampa....

I kinda liked the idea of taking the helmets off if there's a problem with helmet-to-helmet collisions. That would certainly stop leading with the head. I figure just take the facemask off, but leave the helmet.

mhgaffney
02-06-2011, 02:02 PM
There should have been a third option: Hell no!

cutthemdown
02-06-2011, 02:52 PM
OK, fair enough...but like i said it's just my opinion. and opinions vary....

However what's wrong with giving honolulu the benefit of a Super bowl every year? you realize that it's generally been New Orleans or miami that's hosted the most Super bowls? If they moved it from NFL city to NFL city, you'd have a better argument. Dallas and NY had to build a brand new stadium just to get one, and most other cities that have hosted one had to have domed stadiums...if they didn't it'd have gone to some warm weather site like oh snap! Miami and New Orleans, maybe Tampa....

well it would be all th people with money in the other cities that have influence. I'm not saying it would be unfair only that powerful people would be pissed because now they are left out.

Once in awhile in Honolulu had a great stadium it would be cool i guess.

Seriously though I dont see any problem with the Superbowl. It works just fine.

Bronco Yoda
02-06-2011, 03:59 PM
Considering the NFL is inching towards flag football anyway, 18 games don't seem so bad.